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48871 No. 48871 ID: d6af4f

The discussion thread for that one quest with the green guy and the mimiga cutebold psycho
Edit: This discussion thread can serve to cover all quests within asteroidverse and any offshoots. Fen Quest has its own dis thread at https://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/res/84312.html
Expand all images
No. 48875 ID: ed57e8

instead of making new tech specifically to negae the asteroids magnetic powers, they should destroy the source of the magnetic shit. aka, destroy the core!
No. 48876 ID: 86fe4d

wo should totally hook Rokoa up with the blue dude.
No. 48878 ID: 5a5118

With the colors of that pic, it almost looks like Rokoa isn't wearing pants.
No. 48885 ID: bccf7b

Wouldn't that inherently destroy the asteroid, alter the mass and gravitational field, and essentially bathe the entire asteroid in deadly radiation?

I mean, it'd be easier just to give everyone a gun and let them shoot themselves in the head.
No. 48887 ID: 459534

You say that like it's a bad thing. :3c
No. 48890 ID: 1b0f2f


We are not going to get our mimiga to destroy the zombie core because it's obviously just supermassive and you can't make mass just disappear.
No. 48895 ID: cf49fc

If it WERE supermassive, it would crush everyone on the surface to death. Or at least Hok and his squishy race. That also explains why they need cables to go everywhere, as long range radio is probably a bitch to keep functional in a place with a magnetic field that powerful.

Also, if you want to escape a Magnetic planet, use a starship made of COMPOSITES. Not that hard to get around, really, all you need is the tech to make composites. I blame Iron Cove for everyone not escaping. Everything is their fault.
No. 48896 ID: 86fe4d


yeah, man! fucking Iron Cove! we should set their reactors to melt down as a goodbye gift.
No. 48901 ID: 1854db

Oh so that's what that tab was we saw in her ear. The plasma sword. I wonder what else she keeps in her ears...
No. 49017 ID: a2853b

Lagotrope, you are the new Weaver.
You've done what, four, five different quests now? And all in the span of a year.
No. 49019 ID: ed57e8

why is rokoa so sexy?
No. 49023 ID: a2853b

Hey lago.
Start date
End date
You began and completed an awesome quest with 450 posts and 86 images in
No. 49026 ID: e3f578

I've already started planning on how to deal precisely with the Hive if they want us to stop sheltering rogues.

At first, I thought maybe we could convince their leaders with speeches from us about how family togetherness is, yadda yadda yadda, generic tgchan tries and soapboxes a culture into thinking differently. But then I realized we're all neckbeards that know nothing of debate or family togetherness and that we couldn't possibly convince them to change their opinions at all on rogues. But the keyword is we.

Gentlemen, we need lawyers, professional debaters, philosophers and scholors, hell even preists along with psychologists and anthropologists is expertise in Neumono culture. Men of the convincing trade. Probably all human as we don't know shit about other cultures and I bet in the far technological future, every human knows sappy family pop-culture lessons and have probably developed actual theories and debates on this shit. They all get together to do behind the scenes team discussions on how to convince that rogues aren't really rogues, just family that has moved out. It might be a far stretch, but we'd have a team of professional convincers to help at least see how we view it and maybe walk away with a slightly new perspective that could treat non-hostile rogues better and those about to go rogue.

So basically, get a bunch of humanities best debaters with Neumono anthropologist experts beackign them up in a room with the Neumono government to help us convince them to not kill people like Kappi. If this plan is good, the minute we have control again in the quest, we need to send mercs out to recruit all these scholars, lawyers, priests, and experts on the Asteroid.

Also, Lagotrope wouldn't have to suffer through the inevitable soapbox marathon to come once Hive diplomats show up. He could just simply decide if our plan succeeds or not, either with a roll of dice or however Lagotrope decides things that happen in his quests that could either be successful or a complete failure. And all the words can happen behind closed doors or with delightful, possibly humorous highlights because we just stuck a bunch of diplomats in a room with opposing diplomats and there's bound to be shit flinging.
No. 49031 ID: 86fe4d


might be that cultural differences present themselves in different factions as opposed to different races, if this is far enough in the future. y'know, except stuff like hiveminds and crap. basically, what I'm saying is that instead of choosing a race, we might have to choose a faction to side with and import people from.
No. 49034 ID: 459534

Neumono priests? There's an interesting thought.
No. 49194 ID: 9fd65e

Nice story (hadn't read it all yet)!

Although I had extremely trouble to find something else than the discussion-page...
This tgchan isn't the best system if you are looking for... a quest you know the author and title... and the wikipage isn't that helpful if you are searching for other quests from lagotrope than cheequest... which current prequel-chapter clamp doesn't even seem to be inserted...

So for a beginner: How do you guys find quests or know when there is a next chapter, other than just scanning some pages of /quest/ every day?
(ch1 was here, right?
... someone know if/where ch2?^^)
No. 49195 ID: 369d34

There isn't a chapter 2, yet. Lagotrope is doing that Clamp quest right now, as far as I can tell.

You're right about it being hard to find specific author's work here. Lagotrope doesn't even have an author page on the wiki, at least not one I could find.
No. 49199 ID: f70e5e

while having a plan to convince the hive to not kill our rouges would be a good idea, I think having a backup plan to deal with rokoa if she is sent after us might be a good idea. judging from what we saw using infantry against her needs overwhelming numbers to be any good. we don't have overwhelming numbers, so what we need to do is find some way to give our men an advantage. shes's probably going to make a beline for our rouges so if we detect her approach soon enough we could probably lure her into a prepared kill zone by moving them. i'm thinking a mass of clay-more mines or something similar. once shes worn down we can swarm her with infantry equipped with heavy weapons.
No. 49200 ID: ed57e8

she can't beeline for the rogues, if we take them off the radar. equip them all with pin systems that shut off their connection so they can't be detected.
No. 49206 ID: 1b0f2f


We simply have to bore her to death.
No. 49214 ID: cf49fc

This idea is perfect! We just need some mines that create clay swamps, then put a fuckton of them down a really, really long chokepoint. Eventually, she'll be crushed to death or die of frustration.
No. 49215 ID: 369d34

We could also use a last ditch defense system around the CAI core. I was thinking putting the CAI into a hardened sphere, then sticking outward facing shaped charges over the surface of the sphere. Only the CAI gets to activate the charges. Stick a really long extension cable out of the core to plug it in, cameras and microphones at regular intervals on the surface so we can see and hear, and a battery and emergency radio beacon in the core for recovery if we do blow it. Oh, and have the charges segmented and independently triggerable. So we could launch ourselves out a window in an emergency, and blow the face off whoever is trying to take us.
No. 49274 ID: e1d311

Thank you very much for the information!
Another question: I keep on changing my IP dayly, so does my ID here...
I tried the watch-Thread-function, but it seems, the list gets deleted every time I get a new ID...
Is there any way to use this function for more than a day?^^
No. 49291 ID: 8b538b


No. 49293 ID: ed57e8

stop changing the IP? why are you doing that?
No. 49294 ID: e1d311

Because I'm behind a router and my provider resets my IP automatically every 24h...
I don't have an own server, so I don't have any reason to buy me a constant IP and every dsl-provider for normal web-user here resets the IP-adresses after some days.

Maybe I should write a userscript that stores the informations on pc... some message-box-size-remembering and preview-function would be nice, too^^ and this javascript-based response-hover-viewing takes forever to show up sometimes...
No. 49316 ID: 369d34

Quick-n-dirty way is to make a bookmark folder for your watched threads. Just dump 'em in there, and open 'em all at once to check. When it takes too long to load, cull out some.
No. 49376 ID: 4bdd79

Use a proxy with a stable IP address.
No. 49473 ID: d6af4f

Okay, thoughts on part 2. I'm not about to begin it, but I started thinking of it. The whole 'you're an ai, do stuff' thing was an experiment, and while it had its plusses, it had plenty of minuses. For a myriad of reasons, it made things very difficult to update for, as well as, I imagine, suggest for. And while I had fun in parts, there were parts where I wasn't enjoying the quest at all. If this were any other medium, I'd likely have crumpled the paper and started over. Therefore, I plan on switching gears back to the standard method of taking control of a single character (in this quest's case, multiple characters, one at a time.)

That's not to say there won't be still be control over which direction the trade hub goes in, though when that is the case, I will be trying to make that short, sweet, and to the point, instead of it being a constant focus. The AI will still be around, just acting as it normally does, but more in the background. Constructing stuff, providing side advice and hackery, trying to get Rokoa's pants off, etc etc.

Simply put, using the AI as the focal point often spread too much attention over too many topics at once, and there had to be some events/specific topics to direct things in. At that point, it may as well use a single character as the focal point.

I post this here since I'm open to thoughts on that matter, so do think at me if you have any questions/comments. My main concern is that it will be a pretty jarring change of gears.
No. 49475 ID: 456290

I don't mind doing the whole "Voice in your head" dealie. I think a little less time spend managing would do us some good, as these characters are really hot interesting!
No. 49477 ID: e3f578

I'm cool with it
Though I'm going to miss hacking shit
I don't even care about the base management at all, I'm terrible at simcity.
I'm happy that the AI will still want to get into Rokoa's pants and will very much enjoy seeing that from another perspective. In fact, I think watching an AI with a behavior based off of us will be so much better than hacking I'm willing to trade it in for.
But hacking and directly affecting the world was fun as hell. Just saying.
No. 49479 ID: 97bd86

I have no problems with the AI becoming a stylization/caricature of /quest/.
No. 49480 ID: e3f578

Oh man, what if we suggest and interact with the the AI! We'd be arguing and debating with essentially ourselves on what to do!
No. 49481 ID: 9c7c3b

Dear god, it'd be a feedback loop. It'd probably end up cracking the asteroid.
No. 49486 ID: 456290
File 132968193138.jpg - (335.43KB , 598x900 , asteroidquestthread2.jpg )

No. 49487 ID: 459534

I'd be fine with that. I imagine it'll make character transitions less complicated/tedious.

And I'm actually kinds glad you're not starting it up immediately. 'cause, apart from a couple days, I won't be able to visit tgchan for the next month-or-so. Weep for me. :<
No. 49488 ID: fcf88e

I do have a sort of suggestion for that which can use our new 'resources' in the field of SCIENCE. Simply put, the A.I. is able to hack things and work through wireless signals right? Why not make a robotic body for the A.I. and make it an actual character? Still be able to act as the A.I. primarily and as the head voices, but an Actual character could allow us to do our own thing too.

I see A.I. mode serving as sort of base/hacking/eye in the sky mode while the robot body can be used for direct things such as action or fighting.

Plus, I don't trust Anon enough to not to try to have Rokoa get in Rokoa's pants.
No. 49489 ID: 1854db

Switching the 'main character' to someone else, essentially? It could work.

Personally I think that if the AI caused lack of focus, there is a very simple way to sharpen that focus without making us not be the AI. Have other characters give the AI directives. Instead of letting us decide what our goals are, have other characters treat the AI essentially like a servant-and that's what it was designed for!- so that we don't have so much autonomy.

Or I dunno, maybe that was something you didn't like having to do? Or was it the fact that we could talk to the whole base at once? I can see how that would divide the focus.

I kindof like base management... oh well.
No. 49491 ID: 1a99f0

It will be too bad losing some of the quirks that came from being an AI, but if we get to play as Rokoa some the switch shouldn't be an issue.

Alternately you could have us still technically be the AI and just use a mechanic like transferring the advice souls. Have us follow a single character at a time by tapping into their communicator or something of the like.
No. 49494 ID: d6af4f

I should add, I'm not against the idea of having the AI as the focal point ever again ever. I would just do it under more specific scenarios, where the pros could outweigh the cons.

>Robot as a character to control
This is a good point, and it was an option tossed out briefly early on. It could happen, just not right away. I'll give it some thought as the quest progresses.

Directives could count as specific scenarios, sure. I.E. if Rokoa was the focal character during her mission, it may not be jarring to switch to AI every once in awhile when she plugged in the nodes. Or as far as in-base goes, less autonomy could work, but it's iffy and would have to be handled carefully.

>base management
Like I say, it may not be a constant focus, but it still will be a thing. With, perhaps, a streamlined tech tree of sorts, I don't know yet.
No. 49495 ID: 8947c3


will we ever get to use it as an excuse to blow shit up again?
No. 49497 ID: e3f578

I still want one scene where a caricature of us, written by you, flirts with someone while we are from someone else's perspective.
I just need that one scene and I'll be set. To see an author's interpretation of how /quest/ would act would be a wonderful thing to read. Then go hear some chatter on how other people in the base actually think and react to us without the fear of /quest/ hearing their opinion of him.
Quest characters are always so polite to us when they're directly interacting with /quest/, you can't even really get an honest response from them in ITQ since they're still talking to us and will hold back their complete thoughts. I really want to know if Rokoa, Tin, Hok, etc. honestly likes us, hates us, or just tolerates us.
No. 49500 ID: 459534

Alright, you've got me hooked. Now I wanna see that, too. It shouldn't be too difficult (I hope), and it'd be interesting to see what Lagotrope does with it.
No. 49880 ID: 246670

(dunno if i should post this here or in the fanart thread)

im thinking of doing a TF2 crossover with this, what class would fit Rokoa better? Heavy or Soldier?
No. 49881 ID: ed57e8

saxton hale
No. 49882 ID: e1fb71


the one who pulls plasma swords out of his ear and sticks nails into his spine.
No. 49883 ID: cf49fc

The Spah sticks things in OTHER people's spines. I think Medic, because she's so dangerously reckless and unhinged.
No. 49899 ID: e3aff6

Aren't they all?
No. 49912 ID: cf49fc

No. 49986 ID: a3b384

I'll have to vote for her being Medic anyway. It just feels right. Also, hot.
No. 50668 ID: f70e5e

this may sound crazy but i think Rokoa is a latent hive queen. she has a very strong personality, is to a slight degree disconnected from her hive, and above all else she attracts rouges. I think she could form her own hive if she wanted to, but is either unaware of this or doesn't want to deal with it.
No. 50669 ID: ed57e8

yeah we kinda figured that. the only that that keeping her from usurping the old queen is she doesn't WANT to.
No. 51002 ID: a2853b
File 133376026604.png - (91.86KB , 801x780 , neumono.png )

>So, what's specifically so scary about salikai the species? I doubt they're all sadistic monsters.
But they are.
Thus far, we have seen three clear evolutionary 'winners', the Neumono, the Salikai, and the Predators, who all made it to the point of intellect where they have learned how to thrive instead of survive.
Neumono united into hives through their empathic sense, Predators use their empathic abilities as a weapon, and the Salikai just use their empathic network as a GPU to give them super-processing intellectual abilities.
To the Neumono, the Predators are 'monsters' because they are unstoppably dangerous and unreasonable beings that are clearly sentient and sapient yet still eat neumono, while the Salikai are 'demons' because they are even more alien than the Predators since they have no empathic linking ability, making them absolutely untrustworthy and unpredictable without any way to 'read' a Salikai.
No. 51004 ID: 874bd8


Honestly I expected more from the green demon. It kinda feels like there was supposed to be more, but the rest of his lines were lost or something so he was just killed off. Unless of course, the rest of his species is even worse than he is, then things might get more interesting. :3c
No. 51007 ID: affb00


Well maybe we fucked up leaving him alone with Rokoa. It did seem like a bad idea, especially with his confidence about restraints and propensity toward electrical stimulation. I dunno what plans were in place should he survive.
No. 51020 ID: 800ce6

inb4 we meet a purple-eyed salikai who wields dual scimitars.


there was supposed to be a family of his around here somewhere, no? them neumono guys better keep their eyes open.
No. 51031 ID: 4bdd79

>we fucked up
>implying we didn't plan to have Rokoa kill him from the start
I did, anyway.
No. 51037 ID: 410a04

Yes that was kinda apparent, asshole.
No. 51055 ID: b85f8c

I thought the green devil would at least keep Rokoa restrained, though I had my doubts about him being able to get anything out of her.

In the end though I'm only shook up about him dying because we lost A) our Predator translation guy, B) our best escape plan (even though it got fucked up a DAY after it started because of a simple GPS) and C) our best weapon against Rokoa.

I fully expected him to betray us at the last minute or something. Did anyone REALLY believe he'd let us go after we served his purposes? I was hoping we would be able to betray him first, as soon as we had a chance of escaping on a helicopter or something.

I actually kinda hope Rokoa is alive so that we can catch her with her pants down later as she's regenerating and finally force her to help us rather than letting her call the shots. I wonder how she'd react to being legitimately defeated?
No. 51091 ID: affb00

No. 51099 ID: 9cd02a

fuck year three stripes adventure!
No. 51100 ID: e3f578

They say this cat Three Stripes is a bad mother
I'm talkin' 'bout Three Stripes.
No. 51129 ID: fa9f7e

So can neumonos and predators breed or what?
No. 51131 ID: e3f578

Well I'm sure the predator does breed with them on the basis that Polo said it makes sense for Four and Three Stripes to gather females over males
whether or not it takes I dunno
No. 51134 ID: e3f578

oh, huh, with the discussion in the thread I guess I'm wrong with my assumption.
Though these predators do have that creepy feel about them.
No. 51137 ID: 459534

So no shipping Three-StripesxPolo? :C
No. 51152 ID: b7169d

Holy crap I knew some of their kind could get big, but that new one is just Huge!
No. 51160 ID: fa9f7e

Oh, we're doing that anyway, but we'll have to substitute rubbing and sucking for actual penetration.
No. 51161 ID: 70591e


I think this is what we all were thinking but weren't saying out loud.
No. 51162 ID: e3f578

I take the creepy comment back, we got those predators beat by a mile.
BDSM (or worse), furry, regular consensual stuff, POMF, and fade to black's I can handle. Beasty is a direction I don't think tgchan should take.
No. 51168 ID: 70591e


you're, like, way too late.
No. 51174 ID: c4a1fc

Do you read the fanart thread? It's true that bestiality doesn't occur often, but it does happen.
No. 51176 ID: e3f578

oh yeah
there was that Seventy WAN thing
Man that was both beasti AND Loli now that I think about it
Even if it was a funny joke
No. 51203 ID: 70591e


also Tetra.

also dragons getting raped.

also all that stuff from way before, like Crowmanticar.
No. 51206 ID: e3f578

Cromanticar doesn't count because that shit was ridiculous and a crow banged and ponymorph
Dragons don't count they're sentient; they often come with the ability of shapeshifting though not the dragon in question.
Three Stripes is barely sentient. While intelligent, he still acts like an animal and is even being trained like one now. Animals in real life have shown as much intelligence as Three Stripes though I do not have citations, it's more of a general statement as I'm sure plenty of animals have evolved to develop smart strategies to hunt, hide or flee for survival.

Trying to remember who Tetra is. It's on the tip of my tongue.
No. 51208 ID: 70591e


hey, whatever excuse lets you sleep at night.
No. 51284 ID: 58a693

p sure there's a bunch of a dog and a crow fucking
No. 51289 ID: 70591e


it's why I called her badass, man. earless neumono look like women with buzzcuts, apparently. homegirl's in survival mode.
No. 51292 ID: bccf7b


BAMF-mode engage.

Awwwwwwww yeeeeaaaaaaah
No. 51358 ID: 9cd02a

So first we were in the spire aboveground, then we went underground where the salikai base was, then we got blasted further underground by an explosion. How deep are we actually?
No. 51575 ID: e3f578

I know I loved Rokoa as an ally but she is a complete hateable bitch when you're against her. A fucking brick wall.

After this development, when we do go back to the present, I think I won't tear up if we get her dead. Our CAI counterparts might, but since we won't always be a CAI now, that doesn't matter.

Our feelings will be legit as thoughts for anyone but Rokoa and CAI, if one dislikes Rokoa.
No. 51597 ID: 209a4f

The first salikai's base was inside a mountain and may not have actually been below ground-level. Just sayin'.

While I'm at it,

1. Do neumono Predators remind anyone else of Pak Protectors? Well, reverse Pak Protectors, I guess...

2. Why do you think Rokoa was so concerned for Tirrik? Was it just because he's in her hive, or is it because she cares for him (or is related to him :| )?

Epileptic trees, GO!
No. 51598 ID: 209a4f

Ooh! One more question!

3. Is Rokoa a monster or a hero? Or something in-between?
No. 51603 ID: b6edd6

She is a lot like Harmuda from Red Sands. The same traits that make her perversely charming when she is on your side make her hateable when she is not on your side.
No. 51606 ID: 49ff09


but with boobs.
No. 51616 ID: fa9f7e

So uh

Is it wrong that I'd hit Polo
No. 51617 ID: ed57e8

No. 51618 ID: e3f578

Man, what did she do to you punk? I mean, yeah, she's going GRIMDARK and angry and everything, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be struck! She hasn't done anything irredeemable.
No. 51619 ID: 61e7f9

I'd tap her
No. 51620 ID: fa9f7e

Hit as in have sex with

If you were deliberately ignoring that for humor-related purposes, I'm sorry, it's hard to tell on the internet
No. 51621 ID: 459534

What no why would you hit agirl that is so mean and also she is nice so nodon't :V
No. 51622 ID: 98b0f6

Somehow, I have this horrible thought that Rokoa is trying to recast Polo in her own image. Perhaps as someone who she can allow to kill her. Someone prove me wrong, would you?
No. 51623 ID: fa9f7e

Oh fuck
No. 51624 ID: e3f578

I wonder if Lagotrope made this intermission specifically so he could get us to take Rokoa seriously for what she actually is rather than staying in the "Oh she's so fun and likable and rational for a psychotic bloodthirsty killer" mindset we've been having, despite the obvious clues he's been writing in the main quest.
No. 51626 ID: b6edd6

She would tell you how she got those scars, except Neumonos don't scar.

Who ever said she was rational? (The other ones are fairly common traits of maniacs who happen to not be killing people you care about at the time.)
No. 51685 ID: 97bd86
File 133527800180.png - (17.05KB , 700x700 , sekanibeast.png )

I think we all know where Crown got those feathers.
No. 51688 ID: bccf7b


No. 51730 ID: b85f8c

That's the WRONG COLOR though!
No. 51898 ID: 0221b4
File 133557551931.jpg - (12.53KB , 300x299 , bm9.jpg )

>It is dark and metal.
No. 51901 ID: 6f4add


hahaha, oh wow. I should have thought of that. thanks for making me laugh this hard.
No. 52062 ID: c811c4

Body Ranks

An additional hitpoint comes with every rank up. Later obstacles, strength and dexterity tests may use this as well, but the primary

Every 4th rank in this allows the purchase of an additional item slot.

Weapon Ranks

Allows the usage of a weapon, and you must have a weapon in order to attack.

A weapon's effectiveness as a damaging object is purely aesthetic, and will deal the same damage regardless of its appearance. However, its usefulness as a tool is as it appears, and so an axe or similarly bladed object will be able to chop items, a hammer could break boxes and a screwdriver to undo screws, but their damage will always be the same.

The kind of weapon will be decided when rank 1 is reached. It cannot be disarmed/lost permanently.

Armor Ranks

A set of armor's effectiveness for protection is purely appearance. Loose clothes with frilly underwear to the most technologically advanced battlesuits are just for looks, and the effectiveness and range of movement will be the same.

Armor also lose effectiveness the more damage it takes, but quickly heals on its own for each round it is not taking damage.

Each rank gives +1 to armor.

Absorption Ranks

When a contender dies, their essence scatters in the air and lingers for a moment. Absorption is the ability to absorb a fellow contender's C.U. Each level will return 10% of the C.U. that the absorbee has in total (spent and unused.) To absorb, they must either be in range, which increases with each Absorption Rank.
No. 52178 ID: c811c4

Scan allows the user to see either 2 statistics, their items, or all of their target's non-standard abilities. It costs CU to use each time, at a price of the total amount of stages completed (including the preliminary stages.)

Each rank halves the cost of using this ability, rounding up.
No. 52194 ID: 3a4d1a

Did someone already figure out what in all the worlds is happening?
Is this some game of an bored AI to simulate multiple personalities competing each other?
However for an intermission it seems highly unfitting in Asteroid-quest... Although I'm even now not sure how part 2 and 1 is fitting together despite one shared character^^
No. 52195 ID: 166adc

Maybe it's something to just make us nuts.
Go through the puzzles, make friends, earn freedom, meet Rokoa, get blown up. :V
No. 52198 ID: 71d68e

I'm pretty certain everyone is digital, not physical. Simulated, anyway. The overall rules're just too abstract and computational--it's more like a (cruel) video game than physical reality.

Given that the whole process seem to be willowing out a few from multiple candidates, it seems almost like a process similar to genetic algorithms or something.
No. 52207 ID: a2853b

Did anyone else find it odd that Alison was able to understand complex engineering topic as soon as she starting reading about them, while Mathematician had to spend hours reinventing basic arithmetic and algebra?
No. 52209 ID: 4594e2

I'm also thinking that this is a virtual environment. I have the notion as well that this is how Compilation AI's are made. The ultimate survivors will be compiled together.
No. 52224 ID: c811c4
File 133618548107.png - (15.10KB , 700x800 , platformsystemdisplay.png )

Platform Mechanics (With included attack priorities.

Each turn is comprised of three phases. In the first phase, everyone decides where to move before any attacking will be done.

In the second phase, after everyone has landed, they are free to attack. If someone holds their position, and another person jumps on their platform, they will be able to tell at this point whether or not the enemy is attacking, and can decide freely to attack or not.
For all other cases, such as two people jumping on a new tile, they will not be able to tell if the other is attacking. Also, it should note, that if two people are on 2 tiles next to each other, and try to attack each other by leaping onto each other's tiles, they will not be able to attack each other. Instead, they will simply flip positions, unable to perform any midair attacks.

Once all of the attacks are decided, then all attacks will be performed simultaneously. With sufficient attack, they may kill one another. If not, then they may leap again next round before any new attacks come.

The third phase allows for any available non-attack abilities or spoken words if available, even if they received a fatal attack.

There are an unlimited number of people that can occupy a single tile.

These are the normal rules, but items may supersede any of the above.
Additional clarifications/rules will come as needed, if there is anything confusing or missing.

Armor Mechanics
A single armor point blocks 1 unit of attack.
Armor points are returned for each round that the user is not taking damage, and it heals more the more consecutive rounds pass with no attacks.

The healed amounts start with the 2nd number of the Fibonacci series, with the 2nd consecutive non-attacked round healing by the 3rd digit and so forth.

In other words, the first round of non-combat will heal 1 armor point, the next round will heal 1 armor point, the 3rd round will heal 2 armor points, the 4th consecutive round will heal 3 armor points, the 5th round heals 5, and so forth.

Armor heals at the end of a turn. If the user is attacked, the armor will not heal for the round, and the Fibonacci numbers will be reset.

As with platform mechanics, items may supersede this, and additional rules/clarifications are available on request.
No. 52225 ID: b0bf34
File 133619740925.jpg - (1.38MB , 2250x1400 , WILD MASS GUEASSING EXIT THEORY.jpg )

Here's my guess of how the current puzzle can be solved, along with what will happen. X is Alison's placement, V's are single arrow waves, W's are double arrow waves

I think if a platform has an odd number of waves it'll disappear, and with show up with an even number. But as this shows, that doesn't matter, since the exit should be completely clear when we reach it.
No. 52241 ID: 369d34
File 133625039948.png - (49.51KB , 1100x1100 , Turn 8 wave activity.png )

The current turn wave activity map.
I counted turns from when Cloak first moved, so this is turn 8.

Blue arrows are moving waves. Single arrows are single speed waves, double are double speed.

The red box is a possible error. There are two waves on that platform, but they're both in the same direction, and both created by Scanner. I am unsure if this means the platform should be solid or not.
No. 52257 ID: ab8f0c

Just a quick observation here.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that we ought not to absorb friends. I disagree. We should absorb friends. In fact, we should hurry to do it when presented with the option. Those we absorb become part of us. By absorbing the fallen we give them a way to keep living/existing, after a fashion. Besides, we become a little more like the people we absorb. Even just one of these results of absorption should be reason enough to prefer absorbing dying friends and good people to absorbing enemies and wretches. That the ghost or echo of that scoundrel Guardsman will spend the rest of eternity among our fallen friends should disgust us. Let's not make the situation worse by absorbing more villains.
No. 52274 ID: b9e291


Well, we absorbed Mathemetician and he still came back on that extra life. If it does make someone weaker upon respawn we should always absorb baddies. That'll make the hard decisions later on so much more painful, and god if there's anything quest loves it's pain.
No. 52364 ID: 71d68e

I wonder if Absorb is part of how CAIs are made.
No. 52376 ID: b6edd6

Can attack abilities be combined? Like disarm+range or knockback+range?
No. 52384 ID: c811c4

No. 52385 ID: c811c4

Armor Cost (Per rank)/(Total spent):
Rank 1: 8/8
Rank 2: 10/18
Rank 3: 14/32
Rank 4: 19/51
Rank 5: 25/76
Rank 6: 32/108
Rank 7: 40/148
Rank 8: 49/197
Rank 9: 59/256
Rank 10: 70/326
Rank 11: 81/407
Rank 12: 93/500
Rank 13: 106/606
Rank 14: 121/727
Rank 15: 134/861
Rank 16: 150/1011
Rank 17: 166/1177
Rank 18: 183/1360
Rank 19: 200/1560
Rank 20: 218/1778
No. 52394 ID: 5029d1

thanks mathematician
No. 52420 ID: 886a4d

gotta say I'm enjoying this new side-quest alot. Your also insane to update it as much as you do.
No. 52439 ID: fb950a

Insane in a good way!
No. 52456 ID: 09e5bf
File 133653610634.jpg - (126.18KB , 700x700 , I STILL LOVE DRESSES, BUT HAVE LOST SOME DIGNITY.jpg )

has discovered my shame, so here is Iso with an outfit that more appropriately covers his scandalous tail.
No. 52457 ID: fa9f7e

Much better!
No. 52507 ID: 3f39b6

Quests like this are letting me wish a function to get more than the last 50 posts... you are 12h offline and suddenly there are 100 new posts and you have to load all 1000 or so to just read the latest 100^^
No. 52512 ID: 4bdd79

1500 posts and almost 250 images in just 10 days.

Holy fuck.
No. 52513 ID: c811c4

Yeah I was just thinking, I'll be making a new thread before stage 3 begins.
No. 52514 ID: c811c4
File 133661827708.png - (16.15KB , 1223x153 , spreadsheetssf3.png )

No. 52518 ID: c811c4

Alison has 3 Absorb, and glove scissors as an item.
No. 52599 ID: c811c4

Body Cost (Per rank)/(Total spent):
Rank 1: 8/8
Rank 2: 15/23
Rank 3: 19/42
Rank 4: 22/64
Rank 5: 25/89
Rank 6: 29/118
Rank 7: 30/148
Rank 8: 33/181
Rank 9: 35/216
Rank 10: 37/253
Rank 11: 39/292
Rank 12: 41/333
Rank 13: 42/375
Rank 14: 44/419
Rank 15: 46/465
Rank 16: 47/512
Rank 17: 49/561
Rank 18: 50/611
Rank 19: 52/663
Rank 20: 53/716
No. 52602 ID: 410a04

Dear god you are good at this quest thing.
No. 52604 ID: 369d34

I'll second that sentiment.

Going to share the equation for this?
No. 52610 ID: c811c4

Would love to, but, with amazing timing after >>362402
(Thank you both), I have to admit I lost the actual equation for body. It appears to taper off in an increasingly horizontal line, so additional ranks would be 55, 56, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62...
No. 54483 ID: 4bdd79

So apparently your thread broke /questarch/.
No. 54484 ID: 886a4d

It allowed me to expand the thread but everytime I try to view it otherwise it 404s
No. 54485 ID: 369d34

It was accidentally put in questdis, then moved to questarch. That could have something to do with it 404-ing.
No. 54491 ID: 5c94e7

Did I miss the end of Unnatural Selection?
If so, then I have missed it forever, because the archive of it is broken!
No. 54492 ID: c811c4

Until it's fixed, the workaround is to expand the thread instead of hitting reply.
No. 54509 ID: 04b86a

I. Found. It!


Does this make me OCD?
No. 54510 ID: c811c4

Oh, that WAS it. How clumsy, I plugged that in and forgot that that was the right equation for the total amount, and for some reason I was expecting it to be the per rank cost. That is correct though, thank you very much.
No. 54643 ID: 04b86a

I was going to leave this be and see if we ever found out in quest, but I have to ask: does Absorption have a level cap?
No. 54645 ID: c811c4

I had only planned on rank 10 at max, but I'm considering options to make rank 11+ feasible, most obvious being that a level 11 rank would win over a level 10 rank.

Either way, the maximum CU absorbed will be capped at 100% no matter what.
No. 54648 ID: 04b86a

Thanks, that's what I originally figured back when we got the skill line.
No. 54656 ID: 369d34

Dang it. I just realized that the absorption ability gain boon would have been vital to any plan where we tried to red glove a Shopkeep in the level. Win with that boon, and we'd get access to the "merchant" and "persistence" ability lines, though how much they would cost is unknown.
No. 54664 ID: 5c94e7

You know that means effective immortality, right?
If you had persistence you would still exist, even if you didn't get Absorbed.

Come to think of it, isn't there an Item Steal item? The Shopkeeper probably has a hardcoded infinite number of lives, so getting killed somehow combined with persistence would mean he would just come back.
If you had an Item Disable item, you could probably keep the Shopkeeper dead permanently, and if absorbed he would stay there in your dreams.
That would get interesting.
No. 54684 ID: 886a4d


Yup, exactly. I was seriously just shaking my head last night as people jumped on the rez wagon.
No. 54689 ID: f7ae22

I don't think red gloving the shopkeeper as he comes to fix a glitch would really be a good plan, especially not when we have no extra lives. The best reasonable outcome is it just doesn't allow it, or he uses glove scissors to make it a waste of an item. At worst we could actually duel him and it turns out he has 99 attack and we die forever.

Resurrection is useless for a long time, but once we actually have absorb 10 I think people will have enough unique skills/boons to make it more useful to have a good team rather than a single hugely strong Alison. For example, a good use of Resurrection would be to use it along with Duelist's protection of others, making your team able to deal a full round of attacks without anyone being harmed except Duelist who would get revived afterwards.
No. 54692 ID: 886a4d

Thats why we have someone scan his stats first.

The big this is Persistence. We NEED that if we're going to last against any more heavy hitters like Mongrel or Recluse. The only reason we gained any CU last checkpoint is because he was so generous and gave us 50% of what he earned. However we now know two more abilities that can pop up. Heal and Teleport. Its possible its only on this guy but we haven't seen Protector anywhere else either. I bet there are going to be skills that are only offered in chests and never in shops. Or even from Stage Area NPCs that aren't mission critical that you CAN absorb from. The only way to acquire them would be through Ability Absorb.

I just hope we do get the option to buy it.
No. 54740 ID: 25eb2f

Um why didn't we us absorb on the chief as it looks like we were in range?
No. 54743 ID: 955d43

We uh...we just lost didn't we? I don't foresee a possible victory at this point.
The Chief is now a god of this game. He is leagues beyond everyone, and if he makes it out of this level, his stats will let him simply crush everyone without a care in the world, he has snowballed out of control by absorbing himself.
Killing him is also not an option, because he has more allies than us at this point, our big fight winner was The Collector, and he's out for good, and I'm pretty sure we're sacrificing ourselves and our whole team to bring him down, IF that even works numerically.

I sincerely don't think we can win in any way, and we've fucked up bad, the game is now over, victory for Chief. Loadstate?
No. 54744 ID: c6ec33

Assuming we get to continue playing from this point... It seems like our only option at this point is to try to convince people that Chief *IS* too powerful, now, and doesn't give a shit about any of them. They'll live for one more stage - just long enough for him to up his stats and abilities to untouchable levels - and then absorb all of them regardless of the exits. If he's smart, he'll up his range, buy access to special skills like double-jump and disarm, and become completely untouchable.

The problem with taking him out now is that he can sit around all day and respawn whenever he wants. If he only has the one respawn point mentioned, pretty much the only way to take care of him is to either: A) Let him respawn and try to get him on the board, or B) Force him to respawn into a kill-squad by letting 39 other players escape.

Alternatively, we could sit a kill-squad on his respawn tile and hope that there's a huge bloodbath around us, and rake in a few thousand CU of our own as people fight for the exits. However, we'd have to convince the other Absorb-3 guy to let us do so, and take care of (in one way or another) any other Absorb 3+ guys that show up while we wait.
No. 54761 ID: 456869

Here's what we do. His minions can't be that stupid, so we should be able to win them over. Then we camp his respawn tile(if we know for sure which it is). If we know which one it is, then only Alison needs to stay, and we can let everyone now and later exit until he has to respawn, with only one hp. Then we stick his damn head on a pike.
No. 54777 ID: 5c94e7

We TRIED to Absorb the Chief, but his Absorb level is too high, so he Absorbed himself.
No. 54787 ID: f7ae22

Stats that are probably up to date:
No. 54790 ID: e3aff6

I just remembered that > Blue has 0 weapon, 99 body, 99 armor. Special abilities are Heal, Teleport, No-Absorb.
In other words, I don't see anything there keeping a red glove duel from killing him. If we can get another one, we might be able to blackmail people into leaving by threatening to kill blue and through that kill everyone by preventing them from leaving.
No. 54793 ID: 5c94e7

My god...
But that would mean dooming the killer to permadeath too!
We need someone who hates chief or respects Alison so much that they would be willing to sacrifice themselves to trap the Chief.
No. 54796 ID: e3aff6

I was thinking more of the threat of killing everyone, though if it comes to it taking the Chief down with us is looking like an increasingly attractive to letting Chief survive to buy enough stats, range, and double-jumps to be unkillable.
No. 54809 ID: fdad59

After Chief did that whole self-absorption exploit, I got to thinking. "Could we burn 1-ups in order to get loads of CU?" It's possible, but it would require trust.

Bump Alison's absorption rank to 10, or as high as possible. Then identify who has a 1-up still, and get their stats. Find someone who could take them down in a duel. Buy a white dueling glove. Get everyone who trusts the guy with the 1-up to give him their CU. Alison stands next to the guy holding the CU while the other guy hits him with the white glove. The holder accepts, loses, and is absorbed by Alison. Once he spawns back in, he gives everyone back their CU, and Alison divides what she absorbed among the backers. Repeat until you run out of people you trust with extra lives.

Now, other than trusting someone with a huge pile of CU, there's the question of absorption range and mechanics in the Rest Areas. If Alison's absorption would only work if she was in the duel and won, she'd possibly have to spend CU out of the pool to buff up her stats. Also, there'd have to be someone else who could take the "holder" in the duel standing by with a white glove, if the "holder" doesn't dump out the held CU as soon as he spawned back in.

I think I'm on to something, but there could be other things I'm missing.
No. 54815 ID: 886a4d
File 133722326663.png - (23.72KB , 990x634 , teleport1.png )

Heres what I think teleport is doing. Trace the diagonol / opposite of Blue's current position. Find that position on the opposite set of platforms. Tada. Examples we've seen
No. 54816 ID: 886a4d
File 133722329410.png - (25.12KB , 993x636 , teleport2.png )

Second teleport
No. 54817 ID: f7ae22

That would only work if the second teleport point was on the bottom instead of the top.
No. 54818 ID: b85f8c

Nope. Your first image is wrong.
No. 54824 ID: 886a4d

Alright since your not seeing whats rather plain to me I`ll try another way. the map has six directions of interest, right, left, up, down, outer, inner.

If he is on the left and he teles he will be on the right.

If he is on the inner map he will end up on the outer portion.

If he is up he will be down.

In the first example he is on the lower platform. To the right. He is also closer to the inner portion of the map.

When he teles he on the upper platform, He is to the left and he is closer to the outer portion.

The second tele he is on the outer wall, he is to the right and he is on the upper platform.

He ends up on the inner portion, to the left and on the lower platform.
No. 54825 ID: 0006f5


is there anything wrong with this plan ? it should be done right away. explain how agreeable the demands are, playing into the hope chief's minions aren't bullheaded enough to call the bluff of permadeath, losing a higher than zero CHANCE to get out of such a tight situation and catch up with their gloryhogging elsewhere.

dont count on it though. im expecting an unmentioned rule that prevents a permadeath plan from being executed. it most certainly would have been done before at least once and caused all kinds of summation inconsistencies with the total players and CU in all the past games, which it hasn't.
No. 54826 ID: e3aff6

There is no precedent for this situation one way or another; all of the previous exits have been terrain instead of beings.
No. 54829 ID: 0006f5

i dont think gloving the stage after chief's death is needless risk. unless you think Chief 3 : The Third Time's the Charm is somehow not worth risking over. if an exit is still somehow available, we will learn from that observation and it would not have mattered if we didn't glove the stage.
No. 54830 ID: b85f8c

Try putting them side to side instead of on top of eachother. You'll see the mistake you made.

You mirrored one of them, but not the other.

Also quit multiposting so much! You should generally only suggest once, unless there is something rather important to point out, or you need to correct yourself. This isn't a rule or anything but still. Most discussion is technically supposed to be done here instead of cluttering up the main quest thread, especially arguments.
No. 54843 ID: e3aff6

Am I correct in thinking that the Disarmed status is temporarily removed for dueling in the same way that HP and armor are restored? The description never actually says so, but it seems like it probably would.
No. 54847 ID: c811c4
File 133727535216.png - (46.46KB , 1213x443 , stage3completionEndStats.png )

Currently, all characters above the empty/dashed out rows are willing to combine CU and get told what to spend how much on where. Characters below that threshold, from Dress downward, have given their stats, and are friendly to Alison, but for varying reasons don't care to actively join in to share CU.
No. 54848 ID: c811c4
File 133727538870.png - (22.21KB , 730x409 , stage3completionKnownRankCosts.png )

No. 54849 ID: c811c4

A form of attack. Instead of dealing damage, the user disarms the target (applied on that turn), for 1 turn, forcing use of unarmed. Unarmed damage is equal to 1/3 of the weapon's rank. As a 1 on 1 with someone using disarm would be the target whittling away with 1/3 damage on the user, this is a support ability.

The ability to take damage for others. The user is able to move, then prior to attacks, chooses a target. Any damage dealt to the target is redirected to the user, but any additions to the attack (such as knockback) still affect the target.

When an attack is made, the user may knock the target back a number of platforms equal to rank. The user has some control where they are knocked back, but it must be away from the user. Target may only be knocked back across where there are light trails or some other manner of normal travel.
No. 54851 ID: c811c4

Immunity boons: These offer immunity/bypassing of their respective abilities up through an equivelent rank. For example, a level 3 scan immunity will block all scans up to level 3. Their CU cost is the exact same as the abilities that they block.

Only up to a certain rank is available for public purchase at the moment.

Available Immunities
Scan Immunity Rank 1, 2, 3, 4
Disarm Immunity Rank 1
Protection Bypass Rank 1, 2
Banditry Immunity Rank 1, 2, 3, 4
Knockback Immunity Rank 1

Red/White Glove: 70 CU
Glove Scissors: 35 CU
Tonic (5 HP): 50 CU
Tonic (10 HP): 120 CU
First Strike (Offense) 40 CU
First Strike (Defense) 28 CU
Repair Kit (If armor is able to heal at all, and this item is used, armor is repaired to full instead): 80 CU

Inventory Space Rank 1: +1 Item slot (normal and novelty items each) 200 CU (Requires Body 4)
Inventory Space Rank 2: +1 Item slot (normal and novelty items each) 400 CU (Requires Body 8)
Inventory Space Rank 3: +1 Item slot (normal and novelty items each) 600 CU (Requires Body 12)

Protection Boons:
Half-damage protection(Rank 2) - All damage received from protecting others will only cause half damage to the user. (150 CU)
Ability Protection (Rank 3) - All additional effects via the attack (such as disarm) are also redirected to the user. (100 CU)
Split damage (Rank 4) - The Protector may choose to take 1 quarter, one half, or three quarters of the target's received damage. (150 CU)

Scan Boons:
Scan spent CU (Rank 2) (30 CU)
Scan unspent CU (Rank 2) (40 CU)
Scan Ability Levels (Rank 3) (80 CU)
Double Scan - (Rank 3) - Can apply 2 different scan types to a single target at once for the price of one. (50 CU)
Scan total number of unique absorptions (Rank 4) (30 CU)
Triple Scan - (Rank 5, needs Double Scan) - Can apply 3 different scan types to a single target at once for the price of one. (70 CU)
Scan All Bonuses (Rank 6) (50 CU)
Quadruple Scan - (Rank 7) - Can apply 4 different scan types to a single target at once for the price of one. (90 CU)
All Scan - (Rank 10, needs Quadruple Scan) - Can apply all scan types to a single target at once for the price of one. (100 CU)

Knockback Boon:
Choice Direction - User may specify any direction to knock in, even towards the user.

Absorption Boons
Retroactive (Rank 3) - When the user absorbs a Fallen character, the user gets an imprint of all of the characters that the Fallen one has ever absorbed as well. There is no bonus CU, but they will be available for talk or access, or resurrection. (60 CU)
Double Absorb (Rank 6) - May absorb 2 people in one round. This may only be performed twice per stage. (200 CU)

Heal Boons
Range 1 (Rank 1) - Gives 1 tile range. (100 CU)
Range 2 (Rank 2, needs Range 1) - 2 tile range (300 CU)
Move-Heal (Rank 3) - Same as a normal heal, but uses movement instead of the normal attack action. (250 CU)

Other Stuff
Modify Body (Minor) - Buyer may change their body looks but will still be recognizeable as the same person. This is permanent, but can be bought multiple times. Things like haircuts, height, etc.
Modify Body (Major) - Buyer may drastically change into a new body. This is permanent, but can be bought multiple times.

Weapon Range Access: 80 CU
Heal Access: 100 CU
Knockback Access: 150 CU
Double Jump Access: 150 CU

Extra Life: 100 CU (Limit 1 per customer, non-tradeable)
No. 54852 ID: 431fa8

This seems optimal. Absorb Rank 10 and Retroactive for Allison will cost 1156 CU; Absorb Rank 10 and Retroactive for one other character with Absorb 3 already will cost another 1156 CU; 16 extra lives will cost 1600 CU; 19 White Gloves will cost 1330 CU.

But we only have to pay 1226 CU in advance to start the plan working, then 170 for every doubling after that as we burn up our extra lives for additional CU. That means that we should end up with... a couple billion CU, at the end of this.

This can't possibly work the way we think it works, or we've effectively reached endgame right here. Assuming that we can get it all to function without anyone betraying anyone else and running off with a stupidly gigantic pile of CU partway through, of course.
No. 54853 ID: 091389

In case strategy "Break the game" doesn't work, here's a basic spending idea/cost...with 3463 still left to spend if I've done the math right

+1 Extra life for all (1600)
-Body 11 (0) Armor 8 (0) Weapon 8 (0) Absorb 10 (1187)
-Absorption boon RETROACTIVE (60)
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
-Body 8 (33) Armor 8 (0) Weapon 9 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (32) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
The Bandit
-Body 12(0) Armor 8 (0) Weapon 8 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (32) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 7 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
-Body 8 (33) Armor 7 (0) Weapon 8 (0) Absorb 3 (0)
-Body 8 (25+29+30+33) Armor 6 (25+32) Weapon 4 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
-Body 10 (0) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 7 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (32) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
-Protector 2 (150) + Half Damage (150)
-Body 8 (30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (25+32) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 7 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
Horned Flopear
-Body 8 (30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 5 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (32) Weapon 5 (0) Absorb 3 (0)
No. 54854 ID: 04b86a

Don't forget resurrection and possibly retroactive. Those will let us bring back loyal people we've absorbed in earlier stages. The only such person I can think of off of the top of my head is Scanner, but just her will raise the multiplier from over 524,288 times to over 1,048,576 times.
No. 54855 ID: 09e5bf

Oh yeah, we could actually bring back loyal dead people who want to return with this plan. And each one we do it with will be able to not only catch up easily, but strengthen the group further.
No. 54856 ID: 6a9fdc

Double Absorb is also pretty cheap. It will rapidly pay for itself, given how many times two people have died in one round thus far, and given that our Absorb rank can overpower most.
No. 54857 ID: b9e291

I hope people realize that the shopkeeper seems to be managing, if not running this show. Any loopholes we find that he can comprehend have been patched on the spot. So using infinite CU sources to revive everyone would likely result in nothing more than getting nerfed. But if used subtly, as if their limits were being obeyed, perhaps the game keepers won't get wise...

It might also be good to corroborate with the shopkeeper. He is after all another object like Allison, albeit one who has probably finished the game (willingly or unwillingly). We can't outright ask him to betray his obligations (fixing bugs, selling stuff for CU) because even if he would agree then he would be nerfed. But we would be friendly to him in noncommital ways, perhaps asking his name, if he's finished the game, nothing too interrogatory.
No. 54859 ID: 04b86a

Of further note, if we do this we'll have Chief, so even if retroactive doesn't continue through the absorption chain we'll be resurrect and rekill him to get everyone he's absorbed anyway once we're in the stage, meaning we'll be able to bring back Engineer and Recluse later.
No. 54860 ID: 4bdd79


See, the cost of a resurrection is determined by the CU value of the target at death, if I remember correctly. Now, Shopkeep just changed the rules so the value of a person's upgrades doesn't count. That means their value is determined entirely by their current CU count.

So what if, at the end of the next stage, we took an ally's money, absorbed them, walked through the gates, then resurrected them on the other side and returned all their money? Fuck the limit.
No. 54861 ID: e3aff6

Can someone use both Move-Heal and regular Heal in the same round?
No. 54862 ID: c811c4

Only Boons and Items don't count towards the CU spent total. All abilities and main stat upgrades still apply.
No. 54863 ID: c811c4

No, the one heal a round rule stands, but there is a bonus later to allow for what you say
No. 54868 ID: e3aff6

When deciding on how to spend our CU, I think we should first look for the powerful people in this stage and scan them, so we will have a vague idea of what we might be up against.
No. 54882 ID: e3aff6

When the 1-ups say 'limit 1 per customer', is that a limit for buying them now or for buying them now or any future stage?
No. 54883 ID: c811c4

That's the limit for buying them on this stage
No. 54884 ID: e3f578

Shopkeeper can change the rules at will
He's kind of a dick hypocrite, bugfixing after people may have tried (and have already been successful) breaking the game.

Chief would have all that cash and been a huge dick with his method. Sure, it would have been patched like it just has now, but the result would be far more unfair.

Just let people break the game shopkeeper, jeez.
No. 54885 ID: 953355
File 133732052924.png - (16.76KB , 700x700 , 133732014506.png )

No. 54886 ID: c811c4

Lagotrope Makes Mistakes Everywhere: The Quest
No. 54887 ID: 5029d1

took off the strap and was about to give iso the goods.
No. 54888 ID: c6ec33

Disarm appears to have at least 3 ranks, if not 5. What do the rank increases do to Disarm? Increase the number of turns someone is disarmed?

Also, for protector's half damage boon, what happens if you have two people protecting each other? Do they both take half damage? Does it create an infinite loop of damage reduction until we hit 0 and the damage fizzles?

(For how that last one works, here's an example: A gets hit for 10 points, B is protecting them with the 50% damage boon, and takes 5 instead. A is also protecting B with the 50% boon, so A takes 2.5 damage, rounded, then B takes half of that... etc.)

And, what happens if protection is stacked, so that a single person is protected by multiple people?

And, was Duelist's ability to protect 2 people a unique boon? It appears to not be for sale in this stage.
No. 54889 ID: 04b86a

I didn't notice there was anything wrong with the picture until I saw your post. Then I looked back at >>54886 and actually had to go check if Lagotrope had forgotten to draw the straps.

The nice thing about this addition to the plan is that it isn't really abusable by other groups, as it requires resurrection. The only people that will have that, in turn, are people who have similar desires to Alison's, which means that we could just make friends with them. Hmm, really, I guess that's abusable without even having the multiplier from having two extra lives. Do the extra life trick, give them the CU from that and kill them again, keep repeating until your resurrect queue is up to 9 (or whatever you have time for), run through the rest of the extra life tricks, then resurrect people as possible and finish dividing the CU once you're done. Sure, the people that die for this method won't have as much CU as the people in the later portions, but they'll probably be strong enough for it to not matter anyway.

You know something? I really didn't realize resurrection had so much CU creating potential when we got it. I blame Chief's self-absorb gambit.
No. 54890 ID: c811c4

Disarm increases range per rank, starting at 0, so rank 3 would have a range of 2.

Protection gives +1 targets you can protect at once, and +1 range per rank. Rank one starts at 1 target and 0 range.

As for stacking the protection, only one person can protect a single person. If two people try to protect the same, then the person with higher protect levels will be the protector. If that is tied, then whoever has more combined armor/body. If that is tied, then whoever has more spent CU. If that is tied, then it's a random chance.

For people using protect on someone using protect on someone who takes damage, the damage will be passed along until no one is protecting the last person the damage is passed to. Halving damage only comes into effect after the damage would be dealt, so it will only happen once.

Also, a full protection loop would loop back to the original person. A protector cannot redirect the same attack on the same person from the same attacker twice in one round.
No. 54891 ID: b9e291


At the risk of giving Lagotrope Ideas, I'm pretty sure CU stands for "Computational Units." That is to say, objects that are more powerful have more computing resources. I'm guessing CU are tied to an actual resource, and if they are then they'll never be completely free.

That said it should be quite well possible to revive whoever's worth reviving. They might be able to decrease their CU cost too, once the need for ridiculously aggressive abilities is passed. I guess it just seems to me that the real point of this quest intermission is to find the nature of the environment, why things are the way they are, and how to get to programming that genetic algorithm ourselves to actually do some good.

For example, you could use CU to order a second server that effectively doubles the CU supply. Too meta?
No. 54892 ID: c6ec33

Do Body/Weapon/Armor cap at 20?

I just realized that if they don't... and if we can choose to do 0 damage during a duel... we can still do massive credit farming using the extra life method. And it's all 100% legit by the revised rules.

For example:

We currently have 7,653 CU.

We spend 100 to buy Victim #1 a resurrect.
We spend 70 to buy Allison a white glove.
We give the rest of the CU to Victim #1.
Victim #1 spends *every single CU* on upgrading themself. Let's say that puts them around 8,000 CU.
Alison kills and absorbs Victim #1, gaining 8000 CU.
Victim #1 respawns using the resurrection token.
We spend 70 to buy another white glove.
We kill and absorb Victim #1 a *second* time, gaining another 8,000 CU.
We now have ~16,000 CU (-70 for a white glove).
We spend 100 to buy Victim #2 a resurrect.
We spend 70 to buy Allison a white glove.
We hand ~16,000 to victim #2.
Victim #2 spends *every single CU* on upgrading themself. At this point, things are getting hard to track, so let's say that puts them around ~16,000 CU.
Alison kills and absorbs Victim #2, gaining ~16,000 CU.
Victim #2 respawns using the resurrection token.
We spend 70 to buy another white glove.
We kill and absorb Victim #2 a *second* time, gaining another ~16,000 CU.
We now have ~32,000 CU.
We spend 100 to buy Victim #3 a resurrect.
We spend 70 to buy Allison a white glove.
We give the rest of the CU to Victim #3...


Eventually, we will cap out at some ridiculous number, as we're doubling each time.

Let's say we cap out around 8 victims.
After 3 victims: 64k CU
After 4 victims: 128k CU
After 5 victims: 256k CU
After 6 victims: 512k CU
After 7 victims: 1024k CU
After 8 victims: 2048k CU (That's 2,048,000 CU)

However, the last person only gets absorbed ONCE. We then use that amount (2048k) to resurrect all previous victims. This is doable because we're doubling each time, so the point values off all the previous victims combined is still less than the value of the last victim.

Additionally, if we really wanted to... we could resurrect a number of guys from our stash of dead allies to help with this project. People like Recluse, Catatonic, Scanner, etc. This could push our totals even higher.

Theoretically, if we keep going, we could acquire enough CU that if the last person was willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good (and live within us as a spirit with no promise of resurrection. ever), we could acquire enough CU to resurrect literally every person that is accessible via our recursive absorption.

The main risk inherent in this plan (assuming Lago allows us to do it at all) is that we would be creating exponentially more powerful godlike characters (what the fuck do you even do if a character with 2 million points says "nah, I don't want to help anymore"?).

Also, because Alison is just a resurrection facilitator, she would not actually become powerful herself unless we do get the last person to do a noble sacrifice and we have some CU left over after resurrecting *everyone*.
No. 54895 ID: a9298b

We would need to be excruciatingly careful doing this considering we're giving people huge amounts of money and then putting them in a position where they could kill Alison.

Also we can still do this plan regardless of whether or not zero damage can be dealt in duels. So long as we can get opponents to invest the CU in abilities rather than stats enough that Alison can still take them down in a straight duel. Though we'll probably still need to increase her stats at least a little to avoid mutual kills.

As far as actually resurrecting people now, this stage only has four exits, so we'd have to reabsorb most people that we bring back before we exit this stage or it would be a waste of CU.
No. 54897 ID: 09e5bf

We're giving huge amounts of CU to other people, letting them know the next guy will be twice as strong as they are, and having them actually die, relying on good faith that we'll bring them back after everything is done.

This is an almost guaranteed recipe for betrayal.
No. 54898 ID: 256d52


We can get CU for Alison by having someone who already has an extra life buy an extra one and then use one of their two lives to respawn.
No. 54900 ID: 04b86a

Actually, what you just described sounds just like my idea here: >>54889

Which, in turn, I noticed a problem with here, although you seem to have noticed it yourself and let Alison settle for the start-up CU: >>/quest/413433

However, now that I'm looking at it again, I'm noticing another problem, in that that 2048k is only enough to resurrect either all but the eighth person, with the start-up to spare, or the eighth person alone, meaning we'd have to have all but two of those two-life persons fully killed, or all but one and then have Alison absorbed. Or, of course, all but one and leave Alison with just the start-up CU to empower herself with.

Of course, the ultimate problem with it is Bandit will probably object to any plan like this that relies on Resurrection, for reasons stated here: >>54889

This has one possible solution, though its effectiveness would depend on the person: tell them that just offering to let them do this means we consider them part of our team, which means we'll do everything within reason to keep them safe. Within reason meaning we might ask them to make a suicide charge like we did against Chief, but that even then only if its something we'd be willing to do ourself.
No. 54901 ID: a9298b

assuming anyone can buy an extra life on this stage and not just the original forty entrants, reviving some currently dead people beforehand, rather than reviving a currently living person after you've killed them, might be less risky and more profitable, particularly with the last person.
No. 54904 ID: 886a4d

Mmmm I don't like it, this would mean the balance of power would be in the hands of the last person to do use that resurrect as the well the fact that I think your math is a bit off. 2^8 - 2^7 is not enough to resurrect 2^7 worth of people. The good thing about the previous 1 up burn plan that ShopKeep buggered is it would have allow us to distrubte CU evenly after the effect.

I much prefer that we stick to a 1-up-burn plan that lets everyone be mostly equal. That is the one outlined here >>/quest/413307 with the extra 1-up peeps increasing the output.

Heres a slight modification to the plan to prevent anyone deciding to become the new Chief. We double the CU then double it again using Succubus and Healer to do so. That will give us 28k. Of that 28k. If we decide to we can up that to 112 if we want to risk big lizard or Twila running off with the CU. Though Isuggest if we do try and trust them we hold 2-4k in reserve. After we give all of it to our inner circle to be killed and 1-up'd. Then we distribute 10k to each of the other members to be killed and 1-up'd. Allison should spend 14k before anything so she can take out the others during a duel should they get uppity. That way if some of the others do revolt for some reason we can actually stand against them instead of being overwhelmed. 10k would be enough to be twice as powerful as Chief and they are used to having someone be so much mroe powerful then them. Allison would be slightly less powerful then the rest of the inner circle due to spending money on resurrects, one ups and white gloves but that would be quickly made up as she kills true enemies.
No. 54908 ID: b0d466

Having everyone be mostly equal is the best course of action, I agree.

Was Iso able to do 0 damage in the duel?
No. 54909 ID: c6ec33

Note that as originally written, the goal of the plan I detailed was just to create incredibly powerful allies. If we want Alison to be super-powerful as well, we have to absorb the last guy twice. This becomes a lot better if our last guy already has never used their 1-up, for a total of 2 1-ups. But if we don't, then the last person would have to become a sacrifice so that Allison could become powerful and have enough CU left-over to resurrect a large chunk of previously-dead people.

The real question is, after we absorb everyone, how many dead people we'll be carrying around thanks to the Retroactive boon, and how much it would cost to resurrect them all.

My ultimate goal is some kind of ending where we say "fuck the system", become super-powerful, AND bring everyone else back.

Yes, that's the drawback. On the plus side, we can do this with just our MOST TRUSTWORTHY guys and still get a tens of thousands of CU out of it.

Ah, you're right - When I first read your comment, I didn't understand what you were saying (yay for low amounts of sleep). On the plus side, I think the more-detailed explanation of the plan should be a bit more straight-forward and understandable by everyone, if a little long-winded by comparison. :)

2^x = 2^(x-1) + 2^(x-2) ... + 2(1) + 2(0). The last person is worth 2^x, so absorbing them once can allow us to resurrect everyone before them. However, we'd also be a little off due to limitations in how we can spend our CU.
No. 54910 ID: c6ec33

(Lago, can you clarify whether or not duels can be done with someone doing 0-damage attacks?) :)

Also, we should test whether or not previously-dead people can buy 1ups in this stage. Talk to Catatonic and Recluse while sleeping, explain things, and ask if they'll help. I'm guessing the answer will be yes. The CU cost to bring them back probably doesn't matter, since if it doesn't work, we can just kill and reabsorb them. It's in their interest to be re-absorbed, since it'll allow us to maximize the amount of CU we exploit better, guaranteeing us a stage-win, and them another resurrection later.
No. 54915 ID: 04b86a

>2^x = 2^(x-1) + 2^(x-2) ... + 2(1) + 2(0). The last person is worth 2^x, so absorbing them once can allow us to resurrect everyone before them.
Except the last person we absorb is only worth as much as we got from the person before them if we only absorb them once, i.e. 2^(x-1). We'd need a second absorption of that person in order to double it and get 2^x.
No. 54921 ID: c811c4

Ack, yes, that keeps slipping out of the updates. Yes, 0 damage is able to be done in a duel.
No. 54925 ID: c811c4
File 133737752776.png - (51.03KB , 1211x492 , stagesafezone4Stats.png )

No. 54932 ID: 431fa8

What is the cost of the knockback boon? It's not listed.
No. 54938 ID: c811c4

150 CU
No. 54941 ID: fdad59

The minor and major modify body purchases are also missing their prices.
No. 54942 ID: c811c4

Minor is 5 CU, Major is 30 CU

Apologizes for all the missing data
No. 54943 ID: fdad59

Thanks. Also, is there supposed to be a prerequisite for the scan boon "quad scan?"
No. 54944 ID: c811c4

Oh, yes, triple scan was supposed to be the prereq there.
No. 54945 ID: 5c94e7
File 133740566153.png - (9.69KB , 348x294 , Untitled.png )

>Tell Recluse that you seem to be turning into a combination of him and Chief.
That reminds me, last thread I noticed how this storyline seemed perfect for a mythology, as Alison and Recluse made for an ideal Life God/Death God duality combo with respect to their abilities and worldviews.
Then Chief came along and killed Recluse, then then Alison managed to kill Chief, then Bandit managed to destroy Chief, then you point out that Alison is combining together the mythical portfolios of Life, Death, and whatever Chief represents.
I don't know of any preexisting myths that these events could fit in, so I'm just muddling along for fun until inspiration strikes.
No. 54947 ID: 04b86a

I actually see a lot of symbolism in her last chest.

The first boon she could choose was Ghost, which while not really bringing people back to life would still let them exist beyond death. That would have made her a God of the Dead, presiding over the afterlife.

The second choice would have encouraged her to kill people in order to empower herself in ways that simple absorption cannot, a trait that Recluse found desirable. Had she chosen that, she would have become a God of Death.

The last choice was the power to restore life to those that have lost it, making her a God of Life. That, of course, was the one we chose, despite protests from certain people.

When you look at it like that, it raises the notion that the chest was either testing her, to see which path she would choose to go down if given the choice, or offering her a solid choice, to clarify the path she wanted (Ghost vs Resurrection) or to go down a different path altogether (Ability Absorb). That choosing life still ended up encouraging her to kill is rather interesting, but I suppose the real effect is that it paints her reason for killing in a different light. The fact that each choice would have permanently shaped her personality in different ways also reinforces the idea of there being some deeper meaning to the offer.

Of course, in the comment you quoted I said that she's combining Recluse's and Chief's methodologies. In other posts I've mentioned that I want to find the Ghost boon again, and that we'll need to stop taking new members because of time limitations on resurrection. What I didn't mention is it's also because bringing too many people also keeps our group from gaining CU fast enough to really keep up with other players. I suppose you can say that now I want her to take in the other two domains as well. I guess that, thinking about things further, any of the three boons would have led to this simply because we knew the others were out there; they just determined how fast we got to this state of mind, and how easy it would be to get people to accept us.
No. 54961 ID: c811c4
File 133743357818.png - (44.57KB , 1211x475 , stagesafezone4Stats3.png )

No. 54976 ID: 5c94e7

There is a key difference to keep in mind between Death and Dead. A god of Death would be a grim-reaper character who collects the souls of mortals so that they may be transported to the afterlife rather than being lost forever. A God of the Dead would be the one that influences or controls the beings and surroundings of the afterlife.
No. 54982 ID: b0d466

Just realized where I THINK Iso got his name from.

al ISO n
No. 55004 ID: 09e5bf

I just realized bandit is not listed as having knockback, despite having used it three times.
No. 55008 ID: c811c4

Noted, thanks for the catch
No. 55018 ID: c811c4
File 133754912835.png - (8.22KB , 700x700 , chief1.png )

It starts predictably. Him and 10 others, 5 exits. He rolled around for a bit, and made a dash when a blob exited and a portal removed. He didn't care much for the ability to communicate early on, as odd as it sounds. So he got body and saved the remaining CU.

Then the second stage had his partner. He thought he was supposed to work with him, for some reason, and quickly did a 180, wishing he could talk. Nevertheless, things didn't work out, and the Chief dropped the 'partner' and got his chest with an absorption skill line.
No. 55019 ID: c811c4
File 133754915344.png - (317.90KB , 700x700 , chief2.png )

He continued on, now keeping a mere 1 body, and just enough CU to get all the communication. Lucky enough, his partner could be worked with in preliminary stage 3, and both of them lucked out with the stage and could get a chest. The Chief mentioned his absorb ability, and they decided to commune CU so that he could share it. The last part of the stage had several people converging, as with Alison's. He and his partner were able to stay in distance and absorb a few. At that level, he was only getting around 5 CU per absorb, and hung back dangerously long. There was 1 exit left when they both jumped in, splitting the CU reward. The absorb barely paid for that split.

He found the one ups in the cabinet, of course. He had also found others' one ups in another room. Another 15 CU there, as he managed to gouge the extra life missers from it.
No. 55020 ID: c811c4
File 133754917613.png - (156.92KB , 700x700 , chief3.png )

Stage 1 was when things began spiraling up in his favor. Level 2 absorption and terrible stats, he heads into the platform race. There was some possibility for fighting, moreso than wits but not as much as the arena, but where things got good was that the platforms had effects. And when the platforms had effects, he had absorption range. So even when he didn't directly drop others, he absorbed them. 4, to be exact, each giving out 14 to 20 CU as he recalls. Others were impressed or ticked off, but the Chief offered a share of absorbed CU to those who would protect him through the end of the stage. By looking out for him, they looked out for their own CU gains that many had missed absorption over.

He didn't manage to find a chest, but the last part of the stage worked wonderfully. He and his partner, the latter of whom managed to get through the stage of wits with a chest, told them that elevators can be overfilled if they enter it on the same turn. So it would be safe, he said, to wait a bit, and kill some stragglers for some CU. Although he still had range 2, spending just a bit more on armor and body and giving the rest to his newly formed allies, that was enough to gather nearly every straggler. Of the 3 allies he gained, only one was slain, but the others weakened. With 2 elevators left, he said that the CU reward was cut out. If one of them wanted to kill each other, he would split the CU absorbed for that as usual, plus the winner would have the full CU reward. The CU being cut out was a lie of course, but the Chief was obviously no saint. At absorbing 3 people for the race, 3 people in the final area and one of his allies all with rank 2 absorb, he ended up with having under 300 CU after managing to scrape by giving only around 40 CU to his allies as tokens of his thanks. A rip off to be sure, yet 20 CU apiece was still a difference between life and death, a fact he could justify with with promise of more returns later.
No. 55021 ID: c811c4
File 133754919328.png - (7.66KB , 700x700 , chief4.png )

The Chief says she could say was plain addicted to absorbing. Not like the recluse who did it for getting ghosts, but for CU and lots of it. Going into the stage safe zone of 2, he only had himself and 2 allies.

He wanted more, and wanted more allies to help him absorb more. Few could compete with a level 3 absorb, and he talked to every individual he could. All 100, minus those who entered the stage right off the bat. Most, of course, declined, but showing his numbers, and his ability to give precious CU to his followers, managed to get 18 under his name. He did say that most would not even make it to the final area unfortunately, so the stage exits would not be an issue, and everyone under his name could cross through.

It was also here that he took a nap, realizing he could talk to the deceased. And he did, aside from the imprints of their memories, he talked about their experiences. About other people who made groups but had run into bad luck, or simple soloers that had varying degrees of success. He learned a lot, and tended to treat those stories as his own experience. It didn't feel like a lie, given the nature of having absorbed the ones with the experience.
No. 55022 ID: c811c4
File 133754921331.png - (188.52KB , 650x700 , chief5.png )

As with anyone of his stature, luck was on his side. His enemies on the disappearing wave platforms of stage 2 had the courtesy of dropping one at a time, allowing for the absorption of every one of them. A solid 50 to 70 CU for each 3 of them. With that and a chest of 40 CU, he afforded himself, with no small amount of fear for his life, a level 5 absorption.

The same manner in which Alison absorbed several individuals for name of friendship, he did moreso in the name of survival.

10 exits. The first part of the stage had a survival rate of a bit under 50%. Around 9 or 10 of his group, and a few dozen others. He waited, holding the line and recruiting a few more individuals, and absorbed 25 times besides, 25 which includes all of the people he absorbed twice for using their extra lives, perhaps only around 17 or 18 actual individuals. At 75-100 CU or thereabouts per rank 5 absorption, he gained around 2000 CU. A few of his group were slain, and a few individuals had made it to the exit before the Chief got there. His original partner was slain here as well. There he gained his reputation for killing his own group. A couple that he did not personally trust and were rather weak besides. 7 of his group made it through the remaining 7 exits. He gives everyone somewhere between 100 and 150 CU for their trouble, depending on usefulness and loyalty. Less of a rip off, and yet he assures them that now he can carry his own weight. And it was true, he had around 1600 CU for himself by this point. He called his group loyal, and would protect them himself. After all, at this point, most stages at least had options to get into platforms of which battling was avoidable, and reserved for the final area. And he would be at those areas to help them fight.
No. 55023 ID: c811c4
File 133754925623.png - (25.44KB , 900x700 , chief6.png )

Come stage 3, the rumors of him went through. His own posse spoke of him, and the rumors got more and more elaborate he was sure. Perhaps some in his group thought ill behind his back, and merely didn't backstab him because of the CU rewards for helping him, or the likely chance that they would be slain after trying to kill the Chief, or a myriad of other issues mixed with their want of survival. He spent some time in the casino, not just to gain CU, which he gained a hundred or two of, but to talk to everyone before they threw their money away. To tell them to join him for a chance and such things. There were 40 exits, and given the half survival rates just to get to the end portal, which ended up being even worse for that stage, he says that he could hold up to 80 people without anyone having to fight within the group for an exit space. Even if there was a bit more than 80 in his party, they would have to really screw up for the chief to decide to absorb, and that's a small price to pay for what is practically a guaranteed ride through the final area.

He wasn't even positive how many he had before stage 3 started. He delegated a lot of the recruiting. The succubus, met in stage 2, proved worthwhile a few times over with her ability to convert a good deal of members.

Not everyone, of course. Mongrel, Bandit and the Recluse had no interest. Some of his absorptions led him to believe that Alison would be nothing but trouble and competition as well, but there was no point in stirring trouble in a safe zone.
No. 55024 ID: c811c4
File 133754929861.png - (59.04KB , 700x700 , chief7.png )

Come stage 3. Level 7 absorb. 8 people in the first section, 4 people in the second. 6 people absorbed in the first section, 3 people in the second. Big lizard was the one person that he didn't absorb, being a member of his posse. Chief saved his life there, as well. The chest at the end of the second granted him access to the Range line, while he had bought the scan line from the shopkeep in stage 3. He was on the high track, and felt like nothing could go wrong despite the reasonable voices in his mind saying that he wasn't invincible. Alison was there, and his allies horribly out of place, but he was strong. He knew how much he skyrocketed in stage 2's end, and even the first areas of stage 3 were immense. How much, he wondered, he could gather at the end of stage 3 provided Alison's group couldn't best him. The answer, monumental amounts of CU if he could pull it off. His pedestal was the highest, and rising the fastest. Then the bandit. His skill line that seems as though it was made to be pitted against him. Everything flipped in two turns, and he was at the bottom, as Alison should know. Before his head stopped spinning, his own group, never given any reason by the chief to look past their own survival, turned on him.

And that is the summation.
No. 55029 ID: b9e291

Poor Chief. Had to go through all that because of the stupid game. Well at least he learned something.
No. 55032 ID: 5c94e7

If Chief had been true to the rumors, then he would have had a few companions who helped convince people to serve him, and then assist in slaughtering them in each level by pincering them.
THAT would have been an unstoppable Chief, even if his key companions had already been absorbed or split away.
No. 55047 ID: 699da6

good thing our peeps foght with us for the power of friendchips.
No. 55180 ID: 886a4d

I miss Alison already ... is it bad that I wish this was a main storyline instead of a side-story?
No. 55182 ID: 082302

Well it is sort of a side-quest. For a side-quest. Point is that maybe well eventually get a super awesome Hok Polo Alison team up.
No. 55183 ID: 5c94e7

I get the oddest feeling that he stopped Three-Stripes and Asteroid And Intermission quest to do unnatural Selection because whatever results from that one effects the rest.

If there's one thing Lagotrope is good at, it's time travel.
I can't think of any professional writers who could have handled time travel shenanigans as well as this guy.
No. 55196 ID: 886a4d

Well my guess is that Unnatural Selection is selecting personalities for the C.A.I. It`s the only thing that makes sense as a side quest.
No. 55198 ID: 082302

Unless we underestimated Rokoa's insanity. This is her subconscious, everytime she makes a decision she has to create a million individual and sentient personalities, and have them undergo 100 trials of survival. The winning sentient being gets to decide cereal or oatmeal before being whisked off into oblivion, from which a new set of trials begins to decide milk or orange juice.
No. 55199 ID: 57e7b0

Or this whole facility and such could have been some sort of giant genetics lab built by who knows to make all the crazy species on this planet. And now that whoever was in charge is gone its being taken over by the inhabitants.
No. 55202 ID: e3aff6

To me it looks less like generics lab then the result of somebody deciding to play Noah.
No. 55273 ID: b9e291
File 133800056495.png - (75.36KB , 299x628 , coincidence or destiny?.png )

This is called foreshadowing.
No. 55288 ID: 082302

i dont believe we ever planned to fuck a robot
No. 55295 ID: c4a1fc

palette swap*
No. 55317 ID: bccf7b


Salikai got bored? Yeah, sounds about right.
No. 55323 ID: e3f578

I know I had problems with that suggestion, but nonetheless I'm just surprised no one's drawn it yet at all

Or even just a Three Stripes harem with everyone in ho clothing and Three Stripes sporting a purple fedora, sunglasses and a Gold Bling necklace with a jeweled "3S" neckalace
No. 55457 ID: e3f578

Theory: This Polo is actually a speed-grown clone made by Salikai to throw off Rokoa with all the memories and shit.

Or Polo is just having a really off day today.
No. 55462 ID: b9e291

Theory: the Salikai swapped Polo and Rokoa's brains but they don't realize it
No. 55475 ID: bccf7b

I should request it in the fan-art thread, yes, but...

I really wanna see a pouty-face Three Stripes doing making a heart with his huge meaty-hands at grumpy Polo!
No. 55529 ID: 4594e2

Seems to me more like Three-Stripes' reaction to Polo is him simply not understanding that she's gone all grimdark after that last battle with Rokoa.
No. 55537 ID: 886a4d

I hope the pause means we're going back to the other side quest... I miss Alison heh
No. 55545 ID: e3aff6

This video reminded me quite a lot of the Allison chapters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S0qjK3TWZE8
No. 55576 ID: c811c4
File 133848000115.png - (2.96KB , 645x145 , s4puzzleworks.png )

By default, the numbers are added from left to right. If a small dot comes into play, however, then the math continues to the right, but subtracts the numbers that follow instead of add. A big dot changes this back to addition.

In the case to the right, it starts as 2, adds 3 to get 5. Then a small dot is encountered, so the 5 is subtracted by 4 and then 1, to get back to 0. Then a large dot comes, so the 0 is added by the last 2, to get a final number of 2.

In Stage 4's area, one has to get the final number to equal the row's distance from the starting position, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 respectively from bottom to top.
No. 55626 ID: 886a4d

So Stage ShopKeep has 100 body/armor and 60 attack which he can split between 3 people which each can knockback 3 steps in any direction he chooses. And he can do this twice in a turn.... ya definately not meant to be beat. Furthermore he has first strike rank 4... which means you can't even get a drop on him. I think the only way to kill him would be to get him to agree to die by doing 0 damage or not attacking back.
No. 55744 ID: e3d099


Well yes, Alison killed the Shopkeep once in a white glove duel where he agreed to do 0 damage. He also has the Persistence ability, which means when he is killed he does not die. Whether he died when Alison's group left for the next zone remains to be seen.
No. 55805 ID: b85f8c

Actually he has 120 body/armor and 80 attack. The Fortify is +20 per rank on top of his already-20 stats.
No. 55809 ID: c811c4
File charGen.swf - (12.01KB , 800x800 )

Originally I wasn't intending on sharing these, so please excuse the messy GUI, much like I would excuse a messy house for spontaneously invited guests. Messy as it is, it should make calculations easier, any bugs aside.
No. 55810 ID: c811c4
File charGenTier2.swf - (6.91KB , 800x800 )

And calculations for Tier 2.

Tier 2 Entry: 10,000 CU - Resets total CU spent. Tier 1 ranks and abilities will be available as normal, but not count towards the total CU spent.

Fortifications effectively give +20 to their respective statistic per rank.

Split Damage lets the user split their damage evenly to +1 targets per rank, but the targets must be on the same tile.

First Strike allows the user to hit the target first, and if the target dies from that attack, the user will not get hit from the target's intended attack. Each additional rank allows an additional target to get struck first, but is only useful if the user can attack that many targets (via split damage, double attacks, etc.)
No. 55812 ID: c811c4

In case it wasn't clear, the 10k entry fee to Tier 2 has to be purchased before any of the tier 2 abilities can be bought.
No. 55822 ID: c811c4
File 133892168777.png - (11.90KB , 1685x85 , ssf5stats.png )

No. 55839 ID: fdad59

I've been wondering something about the Safe Zones: How destructible are they? I mean, we know the characters won't take damage while in the Safe Zone, but are there parts of the Safe Zone that are indestructible? Because I'm thinking that if the Safe Zone is obliterated, everyone in it would end up falling into the void, effectively keeping them from passing through the level gate. It could also remove a Shopkeep if the ground is removed from under him, all the way down and out of the Safe Zone.

I'm also wondering how robust the physics simulation is in this world. I know in the past I've crashed out Gmod by giving objects physical values that would be impossible in the real world. Stuff like negative coefficients of rotational friction, which results in an object that just keeps rotating faster and faster until it causes a variable overflow. There's also spawning in massive numbers of objects into the same spot, all at once. That'll bring a system to its knees. What I'm thinking is that if we can get a hold of something that can alter the physical properties of this world's matter, or can create an unlimited amount of new matter, either one could crash the system.
No. 55846 ID: 256d52


Wouldn't that, you know, basically kill everyone?
No. 55851 ID: fdad59

Probably, but it's not for certain. I don't think we know what happens to a character if they fall into the void in safe zone space. Are they instantly destroyed, teleported back to the safe zone, or just fall until the clock runs out?

Anyway, perhaps capturing the mechanism the System uses to construct safe zones could be used to make materials for other, more useful things. Something like a portable warp drive jump pack, so a character could jump across the void to visit other safe zones.
No. 55853 ID: 132b99

what? no not the void falling the crashing the system, which everyone LIVES IN.
No. 55855 ID: fdad59

...Oh, right. Uh. Normally I'd say safe zone space is compartmentalized, so one crashing wouldn't screw everything else up, but considering what we've seen I wouldn't want to risk testing that. Actually, any potential weapons of mass destruction should not be attempted. Even if they should only destroy one safe zone, it's likely to cause system-wide instability.

That said, if we ever do find the place where those who are in charge of the System are, having something that could be tossed in to lag them to hell would be nice. A whole mess of indestructible spheres with negative coefficients of friction 'ported in would do nicely.
No. 55857 ID: a00410

uh were did the quest go?
No. 55858 ID: a00410

No. 55899 ID: e3aff6

Hmm, I just remembered something. Remember Mongrel, that crazy, backstabbing guy who killed us that one time? He had a boon to double the CU from people he killed, which would be extremely useful if only he were not still probably too crazy to trust. (By backstabbing, I mean he backstabbed and absorbed one of Chief's group when they 'teamed up' against us.) We might want to ask if anyone in the Corruptor's group has that ability, or if Mongrel is unique in that respect.
No. 55900 ID: 886a4d

Pity there is no boon of boon absorbtion heh.
No. 55923 ID: 886a4d

I've been thinking of ways to defeat the Judges other then straight up combat. Here's a few thoughts.

The Stage 3 part 1 has those movable blocks that you can push at people aand it does body / 2 damage. If we can pick one of those up and bring them to a chest area and use our rather prodigious body stat to throw them during our move phase we can do 180 damage just for Allison alone at our move phase and then attack normally.

The second idea depends on if they aren`t knockback immune. Knock them down to the puzzle area and pull the switch or simply scatter them so the puzzle rules come in effect and they have to group up in order to exit. We can run from the puzzle then.

Finally there is exploiting the fact that we know the equations to body and armor. What if instead of being a hard cap at level 20 body / armor / weapon it instead merely no longer shows what it costs to advance so everyone thinks that you can no longer get more levels in it. Alison should try and put 716 CU into her body stat which should raise it to 25.
No. 55990 ID: c6ec33

One thing I think that has fallen by the wayside: The way the system is set up, it seems better to specialize our allies right now than to make them jacks of all trades.

Sure, the jack-of-all-trades approach was valid when we were all getting split up and had to meet up again later. But now that we're talking about Judges being one of our main foes, it seems like those are structured to be group fights, and we should try to stat out our group appropriately.

We should probably maximize Duelist's protection potential by loading him up on protection boons and focusing on his health and armor first and foremost. Some boons that come to mind as especially useful are T1 Ability Protection and some immunities, so that Duelist doesn't get slammed by things like knockback.

Alison is our absorber/resurrector, so maxing out her absorb boons is probably a good idea. Keep in mind that we can ressurect allies *in combat*, so as long as we can overpower any attempts to counter our resurrections, we can have a potentially infinitely-regenerating supply of allies.

Recluse... should probably be specced out as our heavy hitter. We should try to max out his attack, range, and whatever other boons seem good for a guy focused on DPS.

Scanner's scan ability is useful, but I'm not quite sure what to do with her, since scan boons take up a LOT of boon space.

Also, without bringing in more people, we lack a dedicated healer, which might be useful. We should consider our next 100k member to be a max-spec'd healer with a bunch of healing boons.

All in all, more teammates would be better. :)
No. 56032 ID: 04b86a

A question on Protection loops. You said it'll loop back around to the person the damage was meant for, but will the damage still be halved?
No. 56033 ID: 04b86a

I think we need to start setting up a specific formation for Judge Hunting teams when we're able to. Here are the basic stats I'm recommending right now, assuming they don't have any of the boons or Tier 2 unlock, and already have all of the needed Tier 1 stats maxed:

Two Protectors:
Max Ranks in F.Body/F.Armor/F.Weapon/First Strike/Scatter Damage/F.Heal

Scan Immunity I-VIII
Knockback Immunity I-III
Protection: Half Damage
Protection: Ability Protection
Protection: Split Damage
Heal: Movement
Heal: Mini
Absorb: Retroactive
Absorb: Double
Inventory Space I-II
Protection: Attack Interruption
Protection: Fortification I-VI
Protection: Scatter Damage Cancelation I-III
Heal: Double
Heal: Overcharge
First Strike: Priority I-II
Scatter Damage: Leftovers
Access: Tier 2
Access: Fortified Heal
Extra Boons I-II
Fortified Extra Boons I-II

Spent: 752900 (Each)

One Scanner:
Max Ranks in F.Body/F.Armor/F.Weapon/First Strike/Scatter Damage

Scan Immunity I-VI
Scan: Spent CU
Scan: Unspent CU
Scan: Ability Levels
Scan: Double
Scan: Absorption Number
Scan: Triple
Scan: Scan Boons
Scan: Quadruple
Scan: All Scans
Absorb: Retroactive
Absorb: Double
Inventory Space I-II
First Strike Priority I-II
Scatter Damage: Leftovers
Absorb: Priority I
Scan: Strengthen I-X
Double Attack
Access: Tier 2
Extra Boons I-II
Fortified Extra Boons I-II

Spent: 719370

One Other, specializing in Platform Block:
Max Ranks in F.Body/F.Armor/F.Weapon/First Strike/Scatter Damage

Scan Immunity I-X
Absorb: Retroactive
Absorb: Double
Inventory Space I-II
First Strike: Priority I-V
Scatter Damage: Leftovers
Absorb: Priority I-III
Scan: Platform Block I-X
Double Attack
Access: Tier 2
Extra Boons I-II
Fortified Extra Boons I-II

Spent: 726440

Total CU needed: 2,951,630, plus whatever's needed to get Tier 1 up to snuff. I also recommend everyone in the group have a Red Glove and Glove Scissors on hand and Duel any Judges that have Protect, and that they coordinate who absorbs whom before they attack. Note that the fourth person still has six Tier 1 boon slots available, so they can actually not take Extra Boons I and II to save 70k CU. Furthermore, should the Scanner decide they want Heal: Move or Heal: Mini, they can just trade in some Scan Immunities for those. The immunities are more to annoy the Judges than to provide any practical benefit.

And, yes, I realize putting 3 million CU into four people looks expensive, but keep in mind that if they get an average of 75k per Judge, they'll be able to pay themselves off after killing 40 Judges, or about 10 spawnings.
No. 56039 ID: c811c4

Yes, but the damage will only be halved once, no matter how many times it gets passed around.
No. 56040 ID: 09e5bf

Could you get around protection by staggering first strikes to attack the protector before the rest of the team does their attacks?

Like Alison with say, the best first strike double attacks the protector judge. He dies, her extra damage transfers to the next judge, and then the rest of the party attacks the now unprotected remaining judges; all in one turn.
No. 56043 ID: c811c4

Teleportation: Allows teleportation to a new tile, with a cooldown of 6 rounds. This is still dependant on light trails, however, and can be treated as a burst of extra movement.
Rank 1: Teleport range 1
Rank 2: Cooldown reduced to 5.
Rank 1: Teleport range 2
Rank 2: Cooldown reduced to 4.
Rank 1: Teleport range 3

Fortified Heal: Instead of attacking, the user may heal. This does not stack with the heal amounts from tier one Heal ability.
Rank 1: Heals 10 HP.
Rank 2: Heals 20 HP.
Rank 3: Heals 30 HP.
Rank 4: Heals 40 HP.
Rank 5: Heals 50 HP.

Shapeshift - Able to switch forms. This is an illusion, and touching the shapeshifter will reveal the users true form. It can be held for 10 rounds or 30 minutes in a safe zone.
Rank 1: May hold up to 1 minor change at a time.
Rank 2: May hold up to 2 minor changes at a time.
Rank 3: May hold up to 2 minor changes at a time, and one major body change.
Rank 4: Duration is increased to 15 rounds, or 45 minutes.
Rank 5: Duration is increased to 20 rounds, or 60 minutes.

Swap Position - During the move phase, but before any movement has been made, the user may swap a position with a willing target.
Rank 1 - Range 1
Rank 2 - Range 2
Rank 3 - Range 3
Rank 4 - Range 4
Rank 5 - Range 5
No. 56045 ID: 09e5bf

So, since health and damage work in increments of 20 in tier two, fortified healing needs the double heal or overcharge heal boon to be as comparatively good as the original heal was in tier 1.
No. 56046 ID: 886a4d

Shapeshift sounds more like Disguise then true Shapeshifting... unless there are boons that turn the changes physical.

Teleportation sounds like Double Move would be upgraded.

Swap Position could be extremely useful with a healing team holding far back with reinforcements.
No. 56047 ID: c811c4

During an attack, certain things happen before or after. Most of what is to note here is that protection ends after all regular attacks, and THEN scatter: leftovers happens after that, no matter how much the person has in first strike who uses leftovers. So while scatter damage normally stacks with first strike, doing scatter damage: leftovers does not. The upside being that it bypasses protection (but only that does, regular attacks still won't be bypassed), the downside is that even if the leftovers kills the second target, the second target could still attack. Also, to note, leftovers will still be in effect even if its user was killed before. Think of it like skipping stones.

And lastly, since Scatter: Leftovers is an active part of Scatter: Damage, Protection: Ability willprotect against leftovers.

Scatter Damage Cancelation simply is for reducing the damage further for scatter damage targets.
No. 56050 ID: 3bad4c


What action do these require?
No. 56054 ID: c811c4

Teleport and swap position take up a move action, heal takes up an attack, and shapeshift doesn't replace anything, but takes a full round to activate, during which time the user can still do other things.
No. 56070 ID: 8d0fee

You made me gay for three stripes. God damn it.
No. 56088 ID: e3aff6

I just though of a really obvious maneuver we should have been doing with unit selection. Next time we are in town, we should white-glove Recluse, carry his CU with us, and rez him on the first turn once we get into a fight.

Also, I finally figured out how we can mostly safely test out an idea I have been wanting to try for a while. What I want to find out is what happens if someone drops off the edge of a safe zone (or digs through the bottom of one). How we would do it is we find two people we can rez who are willing to take a risk for pay, give them a white gloce and fasten them to each-other to ensure they won't be separated, then have them jump off. If they fall uneventfully for a predetermined length of time or are otherwise stuck, they can use the glove to mutual-kill eachother, so they can be recovered via resurrection.

On an unrelated note, what does the CREATE PLATFORM skill line do?
No. 56089 ID: c811c4

>Create platform
My mistake, that shouldn't be available for purchase as of yet. Kindly ignore.
No. 56104 ID: 886a4d

Judge hunting teams:

Statwise we should have two striker's per team, a scanner and a protector

Striker(Absorber and Protection Bypass):
Tier 1:

Max Absorb, Max Range, and Double Jump

Absorb Double

(Protector Denial)
Protector Bypass 1-6

Tier 2:
14 fort body
0 fort armor,
20 fort weap,
2 First Strike
1 Scatter


Double Strike
Scatter: Left Overs
First Strike Priority 1-5

(Protector Denial)
Fort Protection Bypass 1-6

Absorbtion Priority 1-8

Tier 1:
Max Absorb, Max Range, Max Disarm, Max Protector, Double Jump


Protection: Half Damage
Protection: Split Damage
Protection: Ability Protection
Protection: Target Platform

Tier 2:

18 Fort Body
17 Fort Armor
1 Weapon

Fort Protection 1-6
Protection Attack Interruption
Scatter Damage Cancel 1-5

Scanner / Healer:
Tier 1
Max Weapon Range, Max Scan, Max Heal, Max Disarm, Max Absorb, Double Jump

All Scan Boons
Heal: Range 1-2
Heal: Movement
Heal: Mini

Tier 2:
9 Fort body
9 fort armor
9 fort weapon
1 first strike
1 scatter
5 fort heal

Scanner Strengthen 1-10
Heal: Double
Heal: Overcharge
First Strike Priority 1-3

For Bandit, Guardsman and Healer I suggest we do use delimeters to get to max tier 2 at the end of this time skip, but in the meantime they should average everything out since we cannot buy boons for them.
No. 56106 ID: fb69eb

Thank you for not keeping your mile-long post in the main thread.

So I think this fight made it clear that we should get Alison some ranks in teleport. We came quite close to being unable to move away from Enforcer and getting killed.
No. 56136 ID: b85f8c
File 133982837088.png - (12.96KB , 700x700 , whereareyourclothes.png )

Because art mistakes like these deserve to be enshrined for all time.
No. 56138 ID: 886a4d

I have a theory why Alison hugs everyone... her snake parts are part constrictor so her instincts say surround them, crush them to death, then eat them. It's also why she reacted so strongly to eating meat... once she starts she might not stop. Yum.
No. 56141 ID: 71d68e

You know, I really like the Glitcher's weird anatomy. It just fits.
No. 56152 ID: b0d466

I like this explanation!

We can expand it to see this instinct at play when she deals with her enemies!
1)Surround them with love/allies
2)Defeat them utterly
3)Devour them (make them allies), so that they may fuel the hugmachine
No. 56171 ID: c811c4

Immunity - Gains immunity against lower tier Abilities and Boons. With this at Rank 2, it can be seen as having all immunity boons at Tier 1 and 2.
Rank 1 - Immune to all Tier 1 abilities and boons, except for absorption.
Rank 2 - Immune to all Tier 2 abilities and boons, except for absorption.

Damage reduction - Reduces damage after all attacks have been made.
Rank 1 - 25% less damage
Rank 2 - 50% less damage
Rank 3 - 75% less damage

Increased damage
Rank 1 - 25%more damage
Rank 2 - 50%more damage
Rank 3 - 75% more damage
Rank 4 - 100% more damage

Item Cancelation - Provides a 3-range item cancellation barrier.
Rank 1 - Blocks up to 2 Tier-1 items per round.
Rank 2 - Complete immunity to tier 1 items, blocks 2 tier 2 items per round.
Rank 3 - Complete immunity to tier 1 and 2 items, blocks 1 Tier 3 item per round

T. 3 Range
Rank 1 - Range 1
Rank 2 - Range 2

Create Light Trail - Creates one light trail to a platform that has a gap of no more than 1.5 platform lengths.
Rank 1 - Lasts for 1 turn
Rank 2 - Lasts for 2 turns
Rank 3 - Lasts for 3 turns, range increases to 2.5

Block Light Trail - Blocks a light trail.
Rank 1 - Lasts for 1 turn
Rank 2 - Lasts for 2 turns
Rank 3 - Lasts for 3 turns

Create Platform - Creates one platform in the air that creates a gap of no more than 1.5 platforms between the user and the new platform.
Rank 1 - Lasts for 1 turn
Rank 2 - Lasts for 2 turns
Rank 3 - Lasts for 3 turns, range increases to 2.5

Remove Platform - Removes any platform. This is done during the movement phase, but after everyone has made normal movements. The platform, however, will not be removed until the beginning of the following round, before people move.
Rank 1 - Lasts for 1 turn
Rank 2 - Lasts for 2 turns
Rank 3 - Lasts for 3 turns

Tier 3 Protector - Same as Tier 1 protector.
Rank 1 - Able to target 1 person at up to 1 range, or everyone but himself on his/her current platform.
Rank 2 - Able to target 2 people at up to 2 range, or everyone but himself on a platform up to 1 range away. current platform.

Tier 3 Knockback
Rank 1 - Knocks its target one platform away from the attacker. If the attacker is on the same tile, the direction may be chosen.

Tier 3 Scan
Rank 1 - Able to see all Body/Armor/Weapon numbers, and owned abilities with at least 1 rank.
Rank 2 - Able to see all stats and boons.

Tier 3 Heal - Able to heal users on the same platform. This replaces the user's attack.
Rank 1 - 20 HP
Rank 2 - 40 HP
Rank 3 - 60 HP
Rank 4 - 80 HP
Rank 5 - 100 HP
No. 56172 ID: 886a4d

Since I have no idea of curret stats current for non pre-mades costs will include everything for them.

Healer (~600k):

Boon slots

Max tier 1 body \ armor \ weapon
Max Absorb
Max Range
Max Knockback
Max Disarm
Double Jump

Max tier 2 fortification
First Strike 1
Max tier 2 heal
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

All the Healer boons
Scanner Immunity 10, and Scan : Platform Block 10, First Strike 5, Inventory 5

Scanner (~605k):

Boon slots

Max Absorb

Max tier 2 fortification
First Strike 3
Scatter 2
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

All the Scan Boons
Scanner Strengthen 10, First Strike Priority 4, Inventory Space 5


Boon slots

Max Scan

Max tier 2 fortification
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

All scan boons, Absorb Priority 10, Double Attack, Scatter: Leftovers, First Strike Priority 3


Boon slots

Max Protector

Max tier 2 fortification
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

All Protection boons including fortification and scatter cancel, Inventory Space 5, First Strike Priority 3


Tier 2 Access

Max tier 1 body \ armor \ weapon
Max Banditry
Max Scan
Max Absorb
Max Range
Max Knockback
Max Disarm
Double Jump

Max tier 2 fortification
First Strike 2
Scatter 2
Max Shapeshift
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

Protection Bypass 6, Protection Fort Bypass 6, Double Strike, Scatter: Leftovers, First Strike Priority 5


Tier 2 Access

Max tier 1 body \ armor \ weapon
Max Absorb
Max Range
Max Knockback
Max Disarm
Double Jump

Max tier 2 fortification
First Strike 2
Scatter 2
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

Protection Bypass 6, Protection Fort Bypass 6, Double Strike, Scatter: Leftovers, First Strike Priority 5

Altogether they should cost around 3 million CU unless my calculations are way off. With Alison costing 14 million that leaves 5 million left over. Enough to get the two judge killing teams (About 1 million CU for 8 people I believe) up and pay back everyone who waived their pay.

Suggestions for the team stats are here >>56104 and lineups were suggested for the two teams as Sword, Shield, Strongarm, and Spear for team 1; and Twirl, Trihorn, Atlas and Charles for team two.
No. 56180 ID: e3f578

People said in the main thread that they thought that the Enforcer would have his own working copy of Duelist.

If that's a working copy, couldn't we technically steal it? Or would then it get rended immediately, or the stem doesn't allow you to steal a copy of someone you already have, even if it's technically different thanks to it being rended?
No. 56182 ID: c811c4

Normally, that would work. However, Tier 3 players all have the same absorb priority, and Steal Ghost requires a higher absorb priority. In other words, it's an obsoleted boon.
No. 56184 ID: 3bad4c

Has anyone figured out what the sanctuaries are yet? It sounds like some contestant is being turned into these things in some horrific method - either glitched body modification or glitched shapeshift.
No. 56185 ID: 886a4d

The thing about Rend Ghost and recursive is that we might be getting EVERYONE that the Arbiter has rent in twain... leading us to more potential allies as well.
No. 56186 ID: e3aff6

It seems fairly unlikely that the glitched safe zones are made from contestants. The rules involving harming contestants still apply in the glitched zones, but chunks are carved out of the terrain (including the core) all the time.
No. 56720 ID: 927efa
File 134137573220.jpg - (136.12KB , 966x783 , Albino_raven.jpg )

Albinos have white fur. Neumono fur is not infused with iron rich blood, thus without coloring would be white not pink. True albino anything would have pink eyes (green if copper hemocyanin), and white fur/feathers. Just like Polo. (Except she's a little blueish.)

Generally albinism is a recessive trait, as "not making dye" happens when "genes don't work." So it shows up more (or even exclusively) in laboratory breeding programs, where genetic uniformity is more useful than genetic diversity and nobody really cares what color your fur is. Just like Polo.

Additionally, there is often more than one gene that produces what would be recognized as coloring, so being an albino isn't exactly black and white. Ignoring that blood has an oxygen transporting dye that cannot be broken in any viable fetus, some albino humans have freckles or even moles, and some albino ferrets have a very slight cream mask, despite the normal "sable" dye gene being busted. So maybe Polo has an unusual coloring that's one step short of albino. But probably not. We'd have to see if others in her "program" are practically identical in coloring to her or not.
No. 56924 ID: 997ce7

I can't help but wonder if Rokoa's queen is also her mom.

If they were forced to spend a decade or two in the same house with their personalities, it'd explain Rokoa's massive mental issues, their hatred, and possibly Rokoa's being a latent hive queen, if such a thing is genetic.
No. 56957 ID: c3c502

I was really thinking we were near the end for a bit there. And then it all went pear shaped and we were given the chance to dump Polo in horrible danger just because it looked interesting and would give us more Rokoa time, so naturally we all jumped on it. Sorry Polo, we really weren't putting you first there! We'll get you out of there alive if at all possible though, so don't worry.

In any event though, here's how it should have ended.

Right after >>/quest/430061, before we had a chance to say anything, Rokoa's reaction to her Queen's betrayal should have been:

>"Well, that's it. Fuck 'em, I'm going tribal again."
>"And you're coming with me, Coffee Cake!"

And then Rokoa bodily drags Polo off to live in the woods away from pesky war hives and secret bases full of annoying monsters. Cuddles, coffee cake, and terrifying violent sex are had by all. The end.
No. 57148 ID: e3aff6

Hey, I had an idea.
If we can get Enforcer 7 to Smuggler, we can get Duelist back without needing to get E7 resurrection. What we do is temporarily selling tier 3, having someone use Steal Ghost to remove our frozen ghost of Duelist, and then using Steal Ghost ourself on E7 (also down to tier 2 for this) to get the live copy of Duelist's ghost as well as any other ghosts he might have.
No. 57151 ID: b85f8c

Hey, yeah, that could work. We'd want to take smuggler out of the sanctuary to do that rather than let the enforcer in, of course.
No. 57260 ID: a73dec

How does starting a Lift work in connected tile stages? Can you lift allies on adjacent tiles, or do the allies need to onto the lifter's tile? If it is the latter, can one lifter set someone down onto a different lifter?
If you throw a lifter, will the people they are carrying be thrown as well?
No. 57261 ID: 1444d5

>If you throw a lifter, will the people they are carrying be thrown as well?
Throw a lifter who is also a thrower, who is lifting another thrower, who is also lifting another thrower, who is lifting the 'projectile' (lift limit of 3). Staged launch, go!
No. 57274 ID: 44b4ea

>How does starting a Lift work in connected tile stages? Can you lift allies on adjacent tiles, or do the allies need to onto the lifter's tile?
You can lift allies on adjacent tiles, and they'll automatically be considered on top of the lifter's tile. They can set them down on a different tile, although they can only lift/set down once per round. Throwing is seperate, and they can lift, then throw.
>If you throw a lifter, will the people they are carrying be thrown as well?
Yes, though as once mentioned, only 3 people can be lifted at once in total, assuming Lift III is had.
No. 57290 ID: e3aff6

Wait, is that one lift and set down each or total per turn?
No. 57292 ID: 44b4ea

One lift and one setdown total per turn.
No. 57294 ID: e3aff6

Aww, I had a juggling scheme all planned out that could move a stack of four people twelve rounds per turn.
Which I guess is why there is one total pickup/drop per turn.
No. 57308 ID: e3aff6

If you kill someone with damaging items (like bombs) or terrain (like dropping or trap blocks), does that count as you killing them for purposes of things like rending?
No. 57309 ID: 1b9919

I'm pretty sure people are available for absorption / rending when they die, regardless of the cause of death. (For instance, we first absorbed Scanner when she died to a platform drop, and we didn't cause it). You just have to be in range, and they can't have no absorb.
No. 57311 ID: e3aff6

Absorbtion can be done to anyone, but Rend specifies people you killed. (Otherwise we could use rend to counter other rends, as if we won the absorb conflict we would still have a functional ghost.)
No. 57321 ID: 964e53

Okay, gaaah, that 3 boon limit. But it isn't necessarily a total killer as from what I see, the most cruical Tier 3 stuff seems to be the abiltiies (notably, Immunity's an Ability, not a Boon). Double Offense's probably the most important one, and that specifically for striker builds.

Absorb: Resurrection and Absorb: Retrospective are pretty much the big gimmies, so that just leaves the third slot on Allison. We can use it for either Boon Absorption or Double Offense depending upon whether we want to try for Combat Absorption.

It actually might be better to work on getting others set up for picking up ability/boon absorption as well as combat absorption (it's just a matter of enough chests). As long as we've got that absorber's ghost, we can just resurrect anyone they absorbs. So that means that Allison would have as her three boons Resurrection, Retrospective, and Double Offense.
No. 57359 ID: c7f8fb

Why do we keep discussing how to reverse rend in the quest thread? I don't really see what it matters at the moment if an absorb or just death is required. We don't have anyone to rescue from our no-absorb system peeps, and so far as we know, the other system brackets haven't faced full teams of ability absorb and upgraded to no-absorb absorb in response. It's irrelevant, and I've yet to see canonical proof to support either position.

The only reason it might matter is that the idea to rend our own people has shown up now twice, which I can't fathom any reason to do. You either get a neutral outcome or a bad one. There's no upside.

So why are we talking about this? It seems silly- we've got more pressing problems and strategies to discuss.
No. 57373 ID: 4a328b
File 134265711090.png - (19.52KB , 200x200 , Lagotrope.png )

No. 57380 ID: 3bad4c

OMG, superfluous apostrophe! Fix it, Shopkeep!

Lagotrope must be really tired if his brain somehow decided "boons" didn't need one and "bombs" did. :D

Unless all the errors are on purpose now! :D Mind blown (by bombs).
No. 57381 ID: 6a1ec2


No no, it's a secret riddle. Bombs actually are allowed, just nothing bombs own are allowed, like boons on bombs or bomb item items.
No. 57390 ID: 44b4ea

Actually, putting apostrophes where they aren't supposed to go and not putting them where they are has been a pretty continual issue with me. I almost typed out 'apostrophe's' for instance, and I'm surprised it has happened so little that I'm just now getting called out on it.
No. 57396 ID: c6ec33

Every time you think of whether or not you should use an apostrophe, imagine it as a little tiny penis. You wouldn't put a penis where it wouldn't belong, would you? Keep your dick out of those nasty plurals. But you'd totally put it in a nice sexy possessive case, or a hot, wet contraction.

More seriously, though: I really love this quest. I don't get to suggest a lot, but the story alone is worth reading.
No. 57399 ID: 886a4d

Pure Speculation on what we can do now that we've effectively emptied a System Space.

1) Bring Glitcher over to see if he can't steal the entire thing. Yes I want to steal the System Space.

2) Upgrade Snuggler for PHAT LOOT

3) We now have 3 different keycards for 3 different people and 3 different stages... minimum I wonder if Glitcher can use that to make an All Stage All Bracket Passcard.

4) Watcher platforms and Teleport Platforms. With both we can expand our reach far enough that we can continue to take the fight to the System, maybe even Upper Administration.
No. 57400 ID: 3bad4c

Uh..looking back it's not just a little ;)
No. 57402 ID: b85f8c

It's not over. I came up with a plan for using their system space against them even without light trails there.

Iso and Clarence together can create bridges freely. We can use that to get around in the relatively small area the system space is in, and research their tech. If we can replicate their "projection" tech, we can launch raids with no risk. We have to do this before they discover us, of course.

We can even use this to project into our own territory for infinite CU farming. Granted since we have no resurrect, having infinite CU is not as good as it was before, but it is still handy for upgrading.

A secondary objective would be hacking into their teleportation systems so that we can teleport into other brackets/system space more freely so that we have more targets for raids.

And finally we would be able to quite possibly hack the Admin room or the old admin's keycard to allow us access before the next stage starts. That is a low priority because frankly I think it's risky.
No. 57404 ID: 7472ad

So, I guess the first thing we need to do is check if the corrupted can still use resurrection.
No. 57405 ID: 44b4ea

For those who are unaware, I'm going to be leaving for awhile and be busy for some time after that. Therefore, resumal of Unnatural Selection and Polo Intermission will be put on hold for around a week/week and a half.
No. 57420 ID: 886a4d

Thoughts on the loss of resurrection.

1) The first thing we need to build is a panic button for people doing CU runs and chest runs. Each group would be given these and if the user thinks its going to die they should hit the button to exit. This is NEEDED now that death is somewhat permanent.

2) Recruitment. Alison's Merchant ability, persistence, white gloves and boon absorb all come together to mean we can still back up everyone we meet so we do not lose them in the stages. Another option is to raid each bracket we can for fresh recruits during a rest area. People who have been depending of resurrections outside the sanctuary are going to be desperate. The third idea is to bring a teleporter specifically meant to teleport beings just before a stage exit.

3) Modified Ghost Talk or Corrupted Sanctuary Resurrection. Both are ultimately the same thing, though admittedly the second is the most needed. Since stages can have their own rules is it possible to remake resurrection even if its just for the sanctuary. If not can glitcher make it so the stage areas we possess see ghosts as a rest area does, that is real. Both would allow the general population to continue as is.

4) Glitcher is the most important being right now. Unfortunately there is only one of him. Ihave always been against corrupting Alison as it merely destroys things and we have always been about saving people... but perhaps we can glitch her instead as that seems to be able to get to the root of the system and rewrite it and thats exactly what we want to do.
No. 57422 ID: c7f8fb

Oh, hey, that's cool. I can catch up on sleep instead of following middle of the night updates for a little while. And since I have an explanation, I won't spend the downtime panicking about your disappearance! How kind.

(1) The panic obvious panic button is moar teleporters. Of course, it takes Glitcher time to make them, and there's gonna be a lot of other things for him to work on now. Plus, the more we put out there, the better odds a system creature will eventually get ahold of one.

We should have a plan b. Possibly bring backup sqauds into chest runs. Have them wait outside the chest nabbing and fighting over room, but within summon allies range. Everything goes good? The backup is never needed and teles out separately. If it goes bad? We get more people in the fight without getting more initial judges / enforcers / hunters / whatever.

(2) Yeah, we can still back up new people by temporarily giving them persistence, assuming they have ghosts. (We'll have to have Glitcher check the new system recruits have 'em).

But I don't think we need more recruits. We have the forces to storm any identical system bracket we can find, and plenty of extras to draw on if we need more. The bigger problem is going to be holding things together with what we have. The power structure of the sanctuary is going to take a hit. Especially in the more draconian houses, people are gonna be *much* less happy serving without the immortal safety net. I expect we'll have some descent even in our much more stable house.

We may even see hostility and blame directed our way, as our arrive precipitated corruptions more aggressive tactics and upset the previous laxness of the system.

Diplomacy is gonna be a big problem.

(3) I just looked back at thread two:

>Ghost Form:The user may bring their absorbed persons out. During stages, they will simply hover over the user and only be able to speak. In safe zones, they will be able to behave normally as though resurrected. Available at Absorption Rank 4 if chosen.

I'm not sure if ghost talk is meant to be the same thing with an accidental name change, or a weaker version that only lets you talk to ghosts without sleeping. I'd really like to be able to summon ghosts though, it'll be somewhat disappointing if we can't.

(4) Corrupter has confirmed he corrupts players. This is where the outsiders come from. Possibly the corrupter devotees as well. But he's never said outright he created Glitcher (although he has implied ownership- "my Glitcher"). Glitcher may have come into his powers on his own, or through a fluke, and/or be one of a kind, at the moment.

Now, what I'm really interested in. From all evidence, the people running the system are inside the simulation, with us. So their recent attack seems to prove people inside the program can modify the program. Sure, all they did was delete one file or function, but they did it. That means, potentially, we can too. Our next big goal should be working to get Glitcher read/write access to the underpinnings of our reality. It's possible that resurrection can be restored- for instance, they deleted the pointer in the boons array, but the function it calls is still there. And in the long run, we could do more than that. Rewriting the laws of the universe to win this fight is actually possible. We should go for it.
No. 57495 ID: b85f8c

A question- does Ghost Talk require the consent of the ghost? Can we banish them back to the dream at will? From any distance? Instantly? I can see this being superior to Resurrect for gathering workers. If anyone acts out of line we just send them back into the dream and there's nothing they can do about it.

More musings:

We need to find out if system space matches our time compression at all. If possible we should be going faster than them at all times. Speaking of time compression, I want to see if we can stop slowing down for an hour at the end of every cycle. Start a long War Cycle that never slows down, to accomplish as much as possible before they reach us. It's not like anyone needs to go to the safe zone to shop anymore.

Speaking of time compression, were Alison and Arbiter invading during the uncompressed hour? And when did Corruptor speak to King? I hope there is a way to compress time for defeated system bases, so that we can research there without spending an absurdly long time relative to the Sanctuary.

If we can see the safe zone from here, how come they can't see system space? Also, we were able to use the small telescope in our safe zone to look at nearby brackets' safe zones, but from what we can tell they should be much further away from eachother than that. Heck, for that matter we can't see as many system space bases from the Sanctuary as there are visible safe zones from our safe zone... It seems like there might be some space warping shenanigans going on.

Finally, there is an alternative to taking Iso and Clarence out to the defeated system base for using create platform/light trail to get around. We can make custom armor jetpacks/wings/other flight instead! The problem of speed is not as much of an issue in this case, as the system base layout is not hugely spread out.
No. 57498 ID: b85f8c

Oh oh oh! And what about 1ups? If anyone still has one, we could try to get that glitched in for Smuggler. IIRC some of the people we had been dealing with decided to keep their 1ups rather than use them to get extra CU, and I don't think all of them have seen combat since then so there should still be one or two floating around. In fact, considering his inventory is supposed to be unrestricted I'm surprised he wasn't able to sell them from the start. Come to think of it I'm not sure why those new T3 abilities were restricted- that goes against what he said about how the system was all that was keeping him from selling any item he wanted.
No. 57510 ID: 04b86a

>banish ghosts at will
Sure, we could do that, but Alison's the kind of person to prefer not having to do that in the first place. The CU costs for resurrecting were arbitrary, though, and there's no guarantee we'll be able to increase their stats while they're ghosts, so it might not be superior for building a workforce. We also don't know if they'll disappear once the person using ghost talk leaves the safe zone or not, although since it isn't hardlocked we can easily give it to someone else who plans on sticking around.

>time compression
The Sanctuary's compression is already very efficient, if not already as efficient as it can get outside of glove duels, so any further compressions won't have much effect with regard to the system brackets.

>War Cycle
I'm mostly against this, to be honest. I'm starting to think that in order to reach the Upper System we'll need to gather keycards and take over an appreciable number of system brackets, which will require going back to normal time and advancing through the stages. The only problem is that if the system brackets don't slow down with us, they'll quickly accumulate who knows how many hours in what is less than a second for us, making it much easier to locate the Sanctuary.

>invasions and time compression
No, all of the invasions occurred during the compression instead, under the assumption that the system brackets were compressing themselves as well. Which seems to be the case, given that the Engineer would have said something if we didn't get back until the end of the cycle. I'm a bit surprised that all of them were compressed given that only one of them really cared about us, but maybe the compression was done by the Upper System in response to a petition by our administrator instead of by the administrators directly.

That was done in what remained of the uncompressed hour in which we rescued Mako.

>rocket packs instead of light trails
The rocket pack idea would only really work in freeroam areas, whereas the system brackets use movement mechanics more similar to platform areas. So, no, I don't think that would work. Not that I understand why you feel the need to study the place.

>safe zones and system space
As the Engineer mentioned in the quest, the System Brackets seem to be capable of bending space with regard to the safe zones, such that they are effectively kept separate from the system brackets and appear to all be closer together than they really are.

>fewer system brackets than safe zones
Every system bracket is in charge of several contest brackets. We have yet to see if the number of contest brackets they're in charge of or the number of system brackets themselves are getting smaller as the stages continue, although I suppose we can find out by asking people who have been in the Sanctuary for multiple stages.

>1 ups
That's something worth trying, Healer and Succubus still have theirs. There's a chance the Shopkeeps were just distributing them from a supply they were temporarily given access to, though, so it won't necessarily work. Even if that isn't the case and we can get only one per stage, though, it'll definitely be worth it.

>some things were restricted
Based on what we've seen, there are some things that are viewable by default, but cannot be purchased without availability being added, like persistence. Other things are viewable but can't have general availability added, like Absorb: Combat. Some, in turn, are not viewable by default but can be added, like Tier 3 skill line accesses, most Tier 3 boons, and most items, and others still simply don't exist in the merchant ability at all, like the Delimiter x2. All of those things are hard coded into the ability itself, and even the system is limited by those things without outright editing the ability code. What the system can do is hide some options and, presumably, add accesses to things that are locked or hidden by default but not hardlocked. The Shopkeeper Baron probably has a superior version of merchant, which makes sense since they need free access to things that were never intended for contestant access.

My musings:

I wonder why the first cycle started as soon as the stage ended instead of giving an hour for people to teleport back? Or how the population can dwindle over the course of the cycle if only house lords have access to teleporters back to the safe zones?

And I'm still wondering how King got the CU needed to resurrect over 10,000 people.

And how did Cake get the keycard if she hates fighting and presumably therefore wants to stay out of the stages? Was the Collective recruited fairly early in Stage 4, before the Obliterator?

You know, Alison mentioned there were still a few dimmed light trails. We should visit those and see why they haven't joined in on the war. No fighting unless forced to, of course, just a visit.
No. 57513 ID: b85f8c

Workers don't need stats. Summoning recruits via Ghost Talk would just be for manual labor.
No. 57522 ID: 886a4d

That not quite true, the better the body and weapon the stronger you and your weapon becomes. Alison's hair for example can probably peirce steel or she can individual manipulate each strand. She also had no problem opening a locked chest by force.
No. 57528 ID: b85f8c

Okay, good point. Still, they'd be cheap labor, suited for farming or other tasks which don't require a lot of strength.
No. 57536 ID: e3f578

Shit's weird yo!

Oh god I just realized a bunch have people have spent a few cycles of 300 hours pent up without release because no one's probably bought the necessary body mod.
No. 57538 ID: fa9f7e

I wonder if they have erogenous zones but no genitals like deerlings, though. That might help.
No. 57544 ID: 4a328b

Now you've got me thinking about crotch mandibles--I hope you're happy! ;n;
No. 57545 ID: fa9f7e

I am. So very happy, in fact, that my mandibles have begun flexing of their own accord.
No. 57548 ID: cf49fc

How do those damn things even interlock? This is all very silly biology. Bloody art majors...
No. 57564 ID: 6a1ec2


Because their creators have genitals. They're obviously heavily derived from something, so anacronistic traits make sense. Genitals optional, sex drive canon. Why do they have books? Why do they have gardens? Why do they feel pain? Why do benches in Ponyville have backrests? Same answer.
No. 57566 ID: fa9f7e

Exactly. I recently realized that, and now I'm trying to think of reasons why she'd be given that.

First explanation that came to mind: This is how AIs are made and we're being made into a sexbot.
No. 57575 ID: e3aff6

>we're being made into a sexbot.
Which is why the simulation's central mechanic is killing people for money :V
No. 57576 ID: c7f8fb

Oh my gods, we almost had it in thread one.

The whole point is to have you kill for money until you realize how horrible that is, and you can whore yourself out for money instead. Then you get to ascend. We were this close to getting out.

No. 57711 ID: 1c8255

Godsdammit, stealth missions are hard when you're spotted in the first room, and you have no way to get away from pursuit.

I've been mentally composing amusing greetings for Rokoa when we get thrown in the brig for torture. Because unless #23 is a traitor, I don't see how the hell we avoid capture.

...we probably don't want to say anything that actually gives away she let us in, which ruins most of the fun ones, unfortunately.

I'm not sure we made any major mistakes though. It's like we had any information to actually make intelligent decisions with. Maybe if we'd ducked out of the chute ASAP, or if we had just frozen instead of shooting, the trash patrol wouldn't have found us. But even if we had got out on floor 2 undetected, we likely would have ended up checking the slaughterhouse, which puts us right back where we are.
No. 57715 ID: e3f578

I know Polo doesn't know any human songs, but I wonder if she knows a popular kids book series that died around five years ago.

Odd are "Hell Naw" but I couldn't resist making the comparison. She is literally a bitchy Clifford the Big Red Dog. We have no real time to surrender or anything, but I suggested it on the off chance she can get off a one liner. Which, as we know, is very important to any assassin's arsenal of weapons.
No. 57869 ID: c1a7db

Just throwing this up here, since there seems to be a little disagreement about it in thread.

Polo's Mission Briefing

Mission Objective: Kill the Queen.

Mandatory Conduct: no additional war-hive fatalities.
(Failsafe: kill Rokoa if conduct broken)

Secondary Objectives:
-Escape Alive.

Possible Targets of opportunity:
-The human instigator.
-Anything that fucks with their efforts to war with the other hives (including ours).


Note that stopping the attack is not on there. The war-hive is already fighting, and currently losing. Our people are warned of and prepared for a possible nuclear strike. There's not much we can do there, aside from finish before things get that far.

We're here for two reasons: (1) We effectively agreed to be Rokoa's assassin for hire. We agreed to her terms, and her mission. (2) The best way to preserve the most life, on both sides of this fight, is to get the war-hive to agree to the cease fire, and withdraw. For that to happen, the Queen needs to be dead, and the ship needs to be able to leave. So we can't ground it.
No. 57870 ID: fa9f7e

You seem to have confused the primary and secondary objectives.
No. 57871 ID: c1a7db

If the mission isn't more important than your life, than why are you risking your life for the mission?

That's kind of semantics though. I'm not saying Polo should kamikaze the Queen, just that the assassination is our priority. We knew going in that getting captured or killed could be the price of pulling off the regicide. (If we get captured after failing we die fo sure).

Hopefully if we are captured on the way out, Rokoa or our new sheep friends can engineer our release.

The briefing would look different if say, I was writing this in chapter 1, when we first got trapped. Then the priorities would have been something like "stay alive", "remain undetected", "gather intel". The mission there was pretty clearly survival. This is slightly different.
No. 57872 ID: fa9f7e

For the same reason you're willing to go outside to get groceries or some such instead of stay in the greater safety of your house. It's not certaindeath, and the risk is small enough to be justified by the payoff.

Doesn't mean escaping shouldn't be a priority.
No. 57879 ID: b85f8c

A question for the author: Wasn't Rokoa's queen still alive during the first chapter of Asteroid Quest? Won't we cause a paradox by killing her?
No. 57882 ID: 9718f3

Could be a new queen, or even a different hive.
No. 57884 ID: 507f4b

It seems that it most likely is a different queen, even if this actually is a prequel to the main (?) storyline. Might be Rokoa junior, there, named after her grandmother or something. Actually, considering what Rokoa said about why she doesn't take out the queen, the queen in the main storyline might even be Polo. ;)
No. 57885 ID: c1a7db

If we assume Polo-quest takes place before Asteroid quest, then Rokoa being complicit in getting the former queen killed and them all exiled would be a damn good explanation of Rokoa's later strained relationship with her hive.

>Queen Polo
I kind of doubt the war-hive runs on ninja-mafia style regicide = succession rules. But it's entirely possible Polo could end up trapped on the asteroid if we botch the escape, and end up still on board when the ship runs.

Really not sure if we want that though. On the one hand, we might get to play around with her longer. Although as the CAI, and not inside her head, that's somewhat less appealing. That, and not getting home would be a bad end for Polo, which I don't have the heart for. I'd much rather work to get Rokoa off the asteroid so she can return to Polo for coffee cake and a rematch, instead of trying to get Polo home from a rock we trapped her on.
No. 57889 ID: e3f578

Queen Polo is impossible because I think she does not give a shit about rogues, and even if she does this isn't even her home hive and she doesn't exactly match up with them. This isn't HER family, why would she care if a few left? She'd have to get really attached to this hive to feel any betrayal at all from rogues, unless she's playing politics.

I will also say that Kappi does not seem like he comes from a war hive. Unless the war hive has assimilated with enough different Neumono it now considers all neumono its own family, immediately adopting all stranded neumono into it with no choice of the matter.
Which, weirds me out. Kappi never met Rokoa personally before we asked him to give her some food. I don't think was ever a part of Rokoa's war hive (or the now-assimilated hive if I'm correct about that theory) unless this hive is fucking enormous. When we're playing politics between our little paradise and their hive, we should only agree to hand over rogues that have previous attachments to that hive and have criminal histories with either them or us. If others have done wrong to them, we'd also consider handing them over as well. We should only harbor fugitives we like after all. Or potential customers. That or convince the hive that we are a sort of libertarian government and have no business or right to kick them out, especially rogue customers who seek shelter from schizo-hive-mind waves.

This should be fine for foreign policy unless all rogues in neumono culture are appalling for most neumono hives, even ones that aren't from their specific hive. That they walk around with the mark of a family betrayer for every hive to see and hate.
No. 57890 ID: c1a7db

We're really missing too much information to make a good call on what happened. The asteroid-hive could be the future remnant or evolution of the war-hive. It could be a different hive that Rokoa somehow ends up attached to. It could be a compilation hive- formed on the asteroid by the disparate neumono trapped there (though that last one seems unlikely- from what we know big neumono colonization efforts or space travel seem to be single hive. They'd have to have dribbled in in small groups for that case to work).

Kappi could have not met Rokoa because she spends as much time as she can away from the asteroid-hive. This works particularly well if we assume he's (much) younger than her- so he was born after the awkwardness started.

I agree Queen Polo is hella unlikely. But not for the reason you give: if she was part of the hive, some of it's mindset would rub off on her. And your hive is always your family (genetic or no), so she'd care about rouges. Maybe she'd stop short of killing them (hard to say- we haven't asked normal Polo how she feels about that yet, let alone hypothetical future different hive-mindset assimilated Polo). Maybe she wouldn't.

Of course, this all assuming everything is cannon and in simple temporal continuity. For all we know the asteroid is another computer simulation inside Allison's system running a copied Rokoa brainscan. Or Polo's going to hit a switch in the warship, and come face to face with a confused holographic naga. There's a lot we don't know about how things fit together.
No. 57891 ID: e3f578

Lagotrope must really love his neumono race.
They've gotten a lot of attention and have had a significant part in the story or backstory of all three asteroid quest iterations. We haven't even had a single mention of mikluks or sheep people in Unnatural Selection. Just Neumono farmers.
Though it might just because we got really interested in them and have pretty much ignored the mikluks and sheep people for the psychic, technicolor bunny-bold people. And I have to remind us that mikluks have one of tgchan's favorite features, they're hermaphrodites. But nope. dude, we are totally gonna ask nothing but questions about these unique bunny-bolds over the walking gecko-frogs.
No. 57892 ID: c1a7db

Well, it probably doesn't hurt that the most developed characters are neumono. Polo and Rokoa and both complex, dynamic characters we find highly engaging. Look how much time we've spent analyzing their personalities, trying to psychoanalyze them, or predict / explain actions. Or how much effort we put into suggesting exact lines of dialog. They're fleshed out, complicated, and interesting to interact with.

Hell, Polo's hands down one of my favorite quest PCs. She answers our questions, works even our stupidest comments intelligently into her dialog, has used us to build a fantastically weird sense of humor, and is smart enough to chose or put together intelligent actions from our suggestions, sometimes regardless of the majority or our ability to pull it together ourselves.

The other races in this continuity have no one to compete. The sheep have all been static background characters with limited screen time. The Salikai and their creatures were mostly cannon fodder. The only miklik we ever really got to know was Tin, but he's not complex or dynamic at all in comparison. Fun, but downright straightforward, really.

The presence of just nuemono relics in Unnatural Selection is unusual- it suggests they may be the ones who set up the simulation. Odd for a species that favors outsourcing computer work.
No. 57894 ID: e3f578

You've forgotten about Hok, the miklik we started out in this universe with.
Granted, when we turned into President CAI he turned into a mercenary we just hire like in Jagged Alliance so we spent a lot less time with him, but he has his own mysteries and backstories.

How in the hell he turned into what he is now is one of the bigger ones, and hows he's been able to stay level-headed and calm through it all. He has never squirmed or pleaded with anyone while fearing with his life, he was always in a practical tone. How does that motherfucker manage it? Who trained him or is he completely self-taught? If self-taught, how in the fuck is a guy that smart getting into all of his shit? The guy is a handy jack of all trades, there's history there. He's basically fucking Han Solo the gecko with a bit less charm.
No. 57896 ID: c1a7db

...oops. I meant Hok, not Tin, actually. Name failure. -_- We know nothing about Tin, practically.

Yeah, he has an unknown backstory. We just weren't with him long enough for any character development. (In the literary sense I mean- we didn't get to see him grow or change at all).
No. 57897 ID: e3f578

The only thing about Rokoa that changed was our relationship with her. Her banging Kappi at the end didn't change her either, she mainly has relationships with rogues, that's happened plenty of times in the past and her current one most definitely isn't going to change her.
She was still a violent unstoppable sociopath, and not even our violent unstoppable sociopath. She went right back to the hive, maybe liking us more than her average employer, but that's it. Hok changed into a bit more of a team player to compensate with everything that's happend, and his life might be better off then it was in the future.
Hok's actually had more development than Rokoa, we just latched onto her like flies to psychedelic honey and learned more about her and her people. Because we asked her questions all the fucking time about her weird race. With Hok, it was the occasional question about Mikluks, but we asked more about the asteroid he lives on and the people he knows. We don't know how weird mikluks are besides their bodies and phallic tails. What if they're all linked to some awful alien amphibian god or something? Then will we start bombarding him with questions?

Polo's changed a decent bit, but we didn't know of her until the intermission started.
No. 57899 ID: c1a7db

I'd say most of Rokoa's dynamic development has happened in the intermission. She's pretty much the same aggressive carefree murderball the whole way through the asteroid (not surprising, as she's only there for 2-3 days). But in the weeks in the spire she surprised us several times. We kept mis-guessing her motivations and responses as we learned more about her, and her relationship with Polo evolved. We didn't expect her to throw the second fight to save Tirrek. We didn't initially expect her to have a strong, reliable sense of honor (hell, we initially didn't expect her to be fair, at all). We didn't expect her to be fallible in battle, or to consider mercy. Etc.

You could have a discussion about which bits of character development was just the development of our incomplete perception or understanding or her character, and which bits were the situation and Polo affecting her. But that's somewhat besides the point, and I don't feel like doing it. I'm just interested that there are developments, I dun feel the need to label 'em.

The difference in attitude might also be due to tone. The asteroid was a lot lighter, and sillier. Despite the crazy aliens and sci fi, Polo's quest feels a lot more dramatic, and well, practical at times. We look for reasonable solutions to her problems, not wacky ones. Mostly.
No. 57954 ID: c1a7db

>Meanwhile, in the brig!

"Rokoa, you worthless [obscenity redacted]! The fucking infiltrator you refused to kill is on board!"
>"Wouldn't have been a problem if you'd just taken the truce when I said."
"She's taken our goddamn sheep hostage and is making demands! They don't even make any sense! You're going to tell me what the hell this coffee cake she's asking is about code for... stop laughing goddamnit! This isn't funny! What the hell is she talking about?! STOP FUCKING LAUGHING!"

(The sounds of colorful swearing and raucous laughter persist. Eventually the swearing is replaced by sounds of renewed torture- the laughter continues for a short, but distressing interval thereafter.)

[Asteroid Quest intermission: Polo quest 1-4 intermission: Rokoa interrogation quest 1-1, end]
No. 57962 ID: 6a1ec2


The reason the characters in Unnatural Selection only have documents of Neumono origin is because they are a Neumono project. It's whatever's going on in that dead hive Three-stripes was poking around in.
No. 58128 ID: d6c330

...could we please agree that our objective is not to get the war-hive to leave / enforce the truce? And that demeaning they do it is a bad idea?

-They're already planning to leave; demanding it doesn't help.
-Every time we ask them to leave, and then don't take them up on it, we give away we have a more important objective to be on board than getting rid of them.
-The war hive, as lead by the current Queen, cannot be trusted to honor any agreement.
-If they actually do miraculously agree to leave, and do so, right now, on the spot, then we don't get to kill the Queen.

Reasons we want the Queen dead:

-We offered to help Rokoa, and agreed to kill the Queen if she gave the order. We're betraying her, and breaking a promise if we don't.
-The Queen wants Polo dead.
-The Queen started this whole war- she's responsible for it all. Everything Polo suffered in the spire, and the nuking of her home, etc.
-The Queen is insane, and is abusing / sickening her own hive just by sticking around. We pitied what Rokoa suffered under her; we cannot leave these people to that.
-An insane war Queen in power guarantees future conflict and loss of life, somewhere.
-Emere and the other sheep need the Queen dead in order to survive. Also, we agreed to help them, if we don't kill her that's a second batch of broken promises and betrayal.
No. 58132 ID: 886a4d

I agree... the queen needs to die. She has proven that she will not hold to her word. Rokoa herself, someone who has proven that she is extremely loyal to her hive is unwiiling to kill her. But she trusts Polo to do what she cannot. Why would we betray that trust after coming so far?
No. 58136 ID: d6c330

Plus there's the added little barb that Rokoa kept her word to us in absolutely every circumstance. Even when it really wasn't in her best interest to do so. Breaking our word after that seems unthinkable.
No. 58144 ID: 733ae0

>And that demeaning they do it is a bad idea?
What exactly do you want to tell them? "Yo, I'm here to kill your queen so if you could stay out of my way that would be great."?
No. 58147 ID: d6c330

We shouldn't tell them our objective, at all. Or if we want to lie, it should be a believable one.

The problem with "I'm here to force you to cease fire and leave", is it's very suspicious every time we don't act accordingly. We didn't hang on to the hostages for leverage. We want to escape the shield room, instead of holding them hostage with it (because if we did, we'd never get the Queen). It becomes obvious we're lying, and that it's not our goal. Then they start to wonder what onboard is important enough for us to stick around. The Queen is a damn good guess.

They already think we're here to fuck them up- they think we're a saboteur, an infiltrator. That we're here to cause chaos, or that we wanted to stop the nukes, or recover codeword "coffeecake". Or that we are out to blow or cripple the ship, but in a way that we survive. Whatever. Let them think those things. If we make obvious lies, it'll help them to figure out the truth faster. We can't let "infiltrator" become "assassin" in their eyes until it's too late.

I'm sure security around the Queen in this crisis is already somewhat increased, but they haven't identified her as our primary target- yet.

Then of course, there's the fact we're fucked if some commander is actually willing to talk terms. Because then our bluff is called and we're forced to admit a lie, or try to deal with people we know will betray us, and miss our kill.

So it's bad either way. There's no upside to "stand down and gtfo-myplanet" speeches.
No. 58148 ID: e3f578

I'm fine with that, personally.
I know they're not going to agree, but we're sending them on a wild goose chasing us here and at least then they'd focus their efforts on securing her if they really want her to live. Which means they'd try to trap us less, chase us down, or even interrogate us. Just wait for Polo to get near the queen and then kill Polo. From their perspective, these small squads and one-on-one just aren't doing very well. We're getting away too fast from the squads and took out a single QI. They'd need to focus on defending the target where we're heading instead of just trying to follow us everywhere and get us that way.
The benefits of informing them seem nil, but that does mean that security forces will be lower elsewhere, making getting closer to the queen's whereabouts quicker and less tedious. And any secondary objectives we want to accomplish easier to get done because they'll focus on what they think is our main objective. Like getting to the armory. Honestly, with the amount of resistance we've met just moving around, I have no idea how we're possibly going to get there and get the weapons necessary to take out the queen.

If a few have somewhat similar beliefs about the Queen as Rokoa, they may commit a little insubordination and put some lax somewhere in her defense. Especially singled out soldiers convinced about it, like the one we have here. A little prodding on his/her personal feelings for the queen may be very important, and we'd get a better understanding of the scope of what would happen in the hive should we kill her.
No. 58155 ID: d6c330

That's reasonable, mostly, except the most intelligent thing they can do if the know we're after the Queen is to move the Queen off ship, close the exits, and then kill Polo at their convenience. Secondary objectives won't mean jack, then.

Queenie's pride might prevent that, except her philosophy is "victory by any means- regardless of honor". She'd totally fuck us over.

...and on the off chance she stayed, I have no idea how we'd punch through uber-hardened Queen defenses without additional casualties.
No. 58156 ID: e3f578

Blasted through an undefended wall with explosives into where ever she'd be, toss more explosives in or use rockets.
Aim for Queen, everyone will reflexively try to dodge if near the queen. After first strike, keep bombarding her with more explosives/rockets while spreading more confusion with even more rockets, until we're done atomizing her or we can't sense her anymore. Go in for a beheading with a plasma sword or whatever, bolt with head. Run like hell.

Simple. Should take about... 3 minutes tops counting reload times unless we literally chuck so much C4 at her than there's no reload at all.
Leaving with the Queen is too risky for them in my opinion. Morale is low enough as it is, the Queen being alive isn't necessarily a victory condition for them, she's just one measly leader after all that can be replaced. One that's losing respect. They're leaving off planet, they leave now with an escape shuttle that leaves the entire hive without a Queen, there's no practical difference then between killing her and her leaving the hive. I mean, are they honestly going to set up a rendezvous point to recollect a queen on a planet they're pretty much banished from? Is rescuing her THAT worth it? The most intelligent thing for them to do is to let her die. She's an idiot not worth dying for, even if they consider her family.
No. 58158 ID: d6c330

They've got teleports. She can hop down to the planet to oversee the spire facility cleansing for a while. Maybe torture a Salakai for fun or something. Quick and easy, no shuttle required. Then they lock down the teleports so tight we'll never get in, and send the QIs to destroy Polo with extreme prejudice.

And this hive isn't helplessly honor bound. They won't see protecting their leader from an assassin as her failing.

You're also assuming no one will be willing to die for the Queen, and throw themselves in front of our rockets (Emere said they were her hand picked personal guard, mostly). And that no one in the room will be returning fire with rockets, or faster-than-possible-reflexes turret fire as soon as we come through the wall. Polo isn't Rambo, and no-kill conducts don't work in massive explosion based firefights.

In that scenario, we'd almost be better off blowing the ship to hell. Which kind of defeats the point.
No. 58160 ID: e3f578

Okay, replace crazy amount of rockets with driving a goddamn motorcycle in there after the initial explosion designed to make an entrance. Slice her head off while driving. There's a lot of confusion created by such a strategy even being attempted. I expect QI's to literally stand in awe of such a crazy ass assassination attempt that their reaction time will be significantly reduced.

Still think the Queen won't leave. Everything's too busy and it's one single assassin to get rid off. But fine, don't tell 'em. I'm sure we can't take on even the current royal guard and Queenie without having to do something crazy anyway. So if they put up a bit more of a defense at the entrances to her lair, well, shit, that's hardly a difference in hardness. It's already going to be unbearably hard either way.
No. 58162 ID: e3f578

and I see protecting the Queen as honorbound, not the other way around. Protecting the Queen no matter your beliefs or how practical she's being IS one of those big honorbound duties. Just because Rokoa resisitng the Queen is honorable doesn't mean that obeying her is any less honorbound from their perspective. If the hive isn't too honorbound, then they'll do whatever's the most practical.

The Queen is not practical in the least. She is not helping anybody now, she's barely leading anybody, she is attacking the Salikai base pointlessly as they're about to abandon the home planet forever in desperation for survival, she's ordered a pointless attack amidst a peace treaty which will inspire even MORE vengeance on the part of a bunch of different neumono hives. Protecting the Queen is honestly too much effort considering all they have to do to even survive now. Selling out the Queen is easily the best solution for anyone in this hive if honor or duty doesn't fall into the equation.
No. 58164 ID: d6c330

Yes, from a perfectly logical point of view, they're better off without her. That's one reason we want her dead.

But I think it's foolish to expect 100% of her trained, loyal super-commandos to come to the same conclusion in the heat of battle. Especially if they're defending a hardened fortification, and they expect we're going to hit them and target her.

Honor also isn't binary. They're willing to tolerate their leader's betrayal of other groups. That doesn't mean they are totally without loyalty, and are willing to stand aside and watch her die for the greater good. From what little we understand of the neumono link and hive mentality, It's probably next to impossible to think that way. Which is probably why Rokoa is the only one of them who has.

Bleh. I care too much. Dammit Lago, I'm arguing away into my stupid here because I care. -_- I'll worry about the royal chamber assault when it comes up, for now this is fruitless.
No. 58165 ID: e3f578

I'm not expecting 100% for of her trained, loyal super-commandos to come to the same conclusion, just that that'd put less effort into defending her compared to a Queen that was a good leader.
That's the basis of what I'm arguing, I'm saying that, should they figure out our target, fighting past the increased defenses wouldn't be THAT bad or different, beyond a little extra fortification. And that, while they'd try to chase Polo down after a successful assassination, they wouldn't go too far with it. These neumono are militarian, after a certain point they'd just go with a practical option than an impractical, emotional option after a certain point. A regular hive like Polo's with a good offense I'm sure would actually hunt down someone in Polo's position and demand justice. This hive? Why? The Queen failed, she's a failure, she was weak and dumb.

Granted, I'm discussing the aftermath now. As to how much fucks they would give after the Queen's dead. My bet is not much.
No. 58169 ID: d6c330

I guess I'd have to say I think the big difference is the emotional link. Considering the influence Queens are supposed to have on the entire mindset of the hive, I don't see how they couldn't care, deeply, and that killing her will stir up a vengeful hornets' nest. It's not like the influence will instantly disappear the moment she loses contact- otherwise anyone wearing a jammer or walking out of range would instantly have broken the spell. I was expecting the endgame to be a madcap rush for the exit while the entire hive howls for our blood- no more holding back and letting QIs take us one by one.

Hell, her emotional / personality hold over them is probably what's blinded the hive to her bad leadership. Rokoa only noticed because she's crazy, or her crazy honor overrode it, or because the Queen made it clear she hated her.

Bleh. You know, I feel we were mostly doing alright, especially considering out stealth was blow from minute one. But we really don't know how to talk to these guys. We were desperate enough to think that maybe the first QI might be on our side, before we wised up and shot her. The bluffing attempt with the second one has just felt like a train wreck. He's not buying anything we say.
No. 58501 ID: d6c330

Gods damn it all Lago. A rooftop robot boss battle with exploding missiles on a cliffhanger, the reveal and return of the god of chaos, followed by time travel, massive betrayals, and probable civil war. You managed to one up yourself in each thread, with climax after climax.

I almost can't take it, you magnificent bastard, you.
No. 58515 ID: 886a4d

Not to disparage the diplomacy route but Lagotrope referred to it as prancing to the corrupter in chat... somehow I don't think it will turn out well.
No. 58516 ID: f09b71

I defend myself that I happened to have the mental image of a prancing snake when saying that, for who knows why
No. 58526 ID: 9216d5
File 134476781631.jpg - (32.54KB , 493x449 , thegate.jpg )

<-- What the Glitcher sees
No. 58528 ID: d6c330

...because prancing to our execution would have been funnier than walking to it? If nothing else, our bubbly enthusiasm would have made Corrupter feel worse about his decision.

Time for crazy theories. What was Glitcher?

He was unique, not a broken player. He could have never trained any apprentice (so glad we never tried), and was unwittingly crippling himself and/or holding back the whole time.

The note from the future seemed to give him more than just the memories of his alternate future self. They unlocked everything for him- showed him the godsawful truth behind everything.

My current working theory is he's the only "real" person in her. An uploaded imprint of a real person. The seed consciousness for the CAI. That gives him unfettered access and control over the virtual world compared to the derivative natives. Of course, he's been hamstrung and amnesiac for a while now.
No. 58530 ID: e3f578

Glitcher killed himself, right? That was him killing himself and me totally getting the picture right?

I wonder if it's possible for alternate timeline glitcher to come to this timeline. He IS a god here. And he said he can do everything after all.
No. 58531 ID: d6c330

Yeah, pretty sure that's suicide. He learned a truth too horrible to bear. Not just the truth behind the system, but his own complicity in it, I suspect. I mean, really, if he is a god, it seems likely he was involved in creation. It has to have been more than his own ignorance and failing to do all that he could that drove him to this.

We're so not getting his ghost.

...and to think, I was hoping that if Glitcher died in this mess, at least we'd be able to summon his ghost, and he already proved his powers work while dead (when we brought him to rent Mako).
No. 58544 ID: 6a1ec2

Any reason why someone is spelling Glitcher "Glithcer" consistently? I'm not missing something, am I?
No. 58545 ID: d6c330

No, that's just a consistent spelling mistake on my part. I try and reread my posts to catch things like that, but they still slip through.

Sorry for the confusion.
No. 58548 ID: 886a4d

This pretty much just crippled the Corrupter as far as fighting the System goes. We're killing his Outsiders, Glitcher is dead and the Shop Keep is gone as well. They'll still have all that CU income but without the Shop Keep they won't be able to get any more tier 3s or easy boons.

I wonder if the auxillery Sanctuary has its own stages or we're stuck with what we had stored. Not a big deal since we plan on sticking with our core Tier 3s but that isn't too bad. System members do get access to CU.
No. 58550 ID: d6c330

Actually, I think we're killing Corrupter Devotees, not Outsiders. I kind of assumed the difference was one group was built for more conventional combat, the other for hacking system stuff.

It also looks from our relative ease of progress that these are his tier 2s we're killing. I don't think his elite guard of however many tier 3s has reached our friends yet (they were probably with corrupter, waiting for the execution if we resisted).

Losing the shop and Glitcher are huge blows. Growth will be limited to skill lines already purchased, and they can't make any new tier 3s. And without resurrection, the infinite CU generation is broke, and they'll have to rely on chest runs, which won't work if the no absorb protections have gone system wide.

Transport will be a problem. They'll have no new access to teleportation, and the outsiders will have to pull more weight.

One thing I'm not clear on. Our main party is going to the system zone. Our house is going to dreamland. What happens to the people inside it? Where are their waking bodies going? Are the rules now people go to sleep, disappear, and wake up inside the dream house?

We're going to want to call in help figuring out how to run the system place. I would think we'd want Supervisor, Baron, and the hunters to help us operate things after we activate the zone.
No. 58551 ID: 886a4d

From what Glitcher said when someone goes to our Dream House their bodies join them. He also said not to ask how. Which means we can recruit people safely without having to bother with teleporters. Hell, we can reunite Smoke with his friends as long as they were absorbed.
No. 58552 ID: d6c330

Okay, I'm willing to assume everyone alive physically transported to dreamland. It's the mechanics afterwards I'm unclear on.

-can these people leave the dreamland? Either by their own will, or we carry them out with us when we wake up outsider style, or we try to summon them with ghost talk and get a living person instead? Because there a lot of people we left at our house we might want available in the real world at certain points. (System people, Shopkeep, our other tier2s and 3s, etc).

-If we invite someone we know to join the dreamhouse in their sleep, does their physical body get transported in, same as our house members, or do they just send a mental projection?

We're gonna have some testing to do.
No. 58557 ID: d6c330

Okay, so we're currently chopping up that huge block of text from alternate sessions in the main thread, trying to glean everything we can from it. But there's two big, fundamental points we need to consider:

Winning the game doesn't work.
It resets every time, and victory is not the way out.

We can't save everyone
We've already missed people, absorb becomes inaccessible, and everyone is permabacked up by the system anyways. And even if we made it to the very end, with all trillion ghosts in tow, we'd just get rebooted anyways.

What this means is we need a fundamental shift in strategy. We cannot escape by moving forward, and collecting ghosts is not important. We need a lateral move. To escape, truly, break the loop, and bring everyone with us, regardless of their current irrelevant life/death status in the loop.

Of course, I've no idea how to do that. We've got no options, no lever yet. We need a place to stand to move the world.
No. 58558 ID: 886a4d

The Dream City... I wonder if we can reach it now. Even if we can't we have the observatory right there so we can look at it closely.
No. 58561 ID: ec2e47

We should leave someone to test the empty space we saw from the teleporter mishap, to see if it disappears in the same way Mouse's system space did.
Something else we might try if we get a volunteer is repeated teleporter misuse (such as using them outside of a safe zone). They might find something different, and we are running out of things to lose.

In case it will get to stage 10, we should have a few people try getting bodies with mouths and selling their Speech boons to see if they can learn to speak manually.
No. 58563 ID: 886a4d

We've already started on the path of Communicationless coopertiveness with our battle langauge... we just need to expand on it. Have Strongarm and Spear continue to work on that, coordinate with Chief to teach the rest of our house as they get a relaitvely polished language out.

I think we need to convince the Glitcher to come back. I hope hes not completely catatonic. Without him we lose absorbtion and communication. Also despite this bombshell we don't know enough. But i have an idea, the CAI cannot hack one another. What if the Glitcher made us \ our house into a CAI.
No. 58565 ID: 9216d5

What if we're the CAI? What if we have to fight Alison at the end? :(
No. 58567 ID: 04b86a

I doubt that's the case in the way you mean it, but
That's an interesting idea, actually. Maybe that didn't completely fail, and there's a bit of the CAI in her now. That would mean that she might be able to succeed where all of the Glitcher's apprentices failed. It's a shame we don't have the Glitcher around to get her started in her training.

I also have to wonder about who the Savior is. Presumably he or she is the opposite of the Corruptor as far as the situation with the CAI goes, and the only person I can think of that qualifies for that if it's not Alison is the Glitcher. I wish Alison #1843 hadn't assumed we'd know who the Savior is in case it's someone else altogether.
No. 58569 ID: b85f8c

I'm in despair! This unending cycle of death has left me in despair!

Seriously, this is an immensely bleak situation. Especially the looming threat of stage 9. It is actually getting to me.
No. 58570 ID: d6c330

Doing some math here. (draft2, fixed typos)

Inital Entrants: 1 trillion

Stage Zero:
The first room:
entrants: 10
exits: 5
instances: 100 billion
survivors: 500 billion
fatalities: 500 billion

Second room:
entrants: 20
exits: 10
instances: 25 billion
survivors: 250 billion
fatalities: 250 billion
cumulative fatalities: 750 billion

3rd room: skipping this one, as we have no way of knowing what percentage of people cooperate or murder their partner. I'll count all the deaths in here towards the next room. I don't think this will throw off the number of instances though- there have to be enough rooms to handle even if everyone survives this stage.

4th room:
entrants: 8*
exits: 4
instances: 31.25 billion
survivors: 125 billion
fatalities: 125 billion
cumulative fatalities: 857 billion

*(Had to guess, there was no sign, and people might have died before we entered. Still, every other room up till this point has a 50% fatality rate, and it's not unreasonable to expect the pattern to continue.)

Stage 1:
entrants: 20
exits: 4
instances: 6.25 billion
survivors: 25 billion
fatalities: 100 billion
cumulative fatalities: 957 billion

Stage 2:
entrants: 100
exits: 10
instances: 250 million
survivors: 2.5 billion
fatalities: 22.5 billion
cumulative fatalities: 997.5 billion

Stage 3:
entrants: 400
exits: 40
instances: 6.25 million
survivors: 250 million
fatalities: 2.25 billion
cumulative fatalities: 999.75 billion

Stage 4:
entrants: 40*
exits: 4
instances: 6.25 million
survivors: 25 million
fatalities: 225 million
cumulative fatalities: 999.975 billion

*(We never read the sign in stage four, so I had to guess. But we never saw anyone in this safe zone outside of Alison group and Chief's former party. I'm assuming no bracket merger takes place- everyone who survives stage 3 together goes head to head in stage 4).

Stage 5:
entrants: 20
exits: 4
instances: 1.25 million
survivors: 5 million
fatalities: 20 million
cumulative fatalities: 999.995 billion

Stage 6:
entrants: 10,000
exits: 100
instances: 500
survivors: 50,000
fatalities: 4.95 million
cumulative fatalities: 999,999,950,000

...and that's as far as we have data for. Obviously these numbers are a rough guide, and don't account for exit overloading, or resurrection. But we can kind of ignore that, as those exact numbers would be different every time around the temporal loop anyways.

Consider the system people now.

Each system bracket needs 1 admin, a supervisor, 3 hunters, a baron, a watcher, a judge lord, 12 enforcers, and 10 operators. 30 people.
Assuming each bracket has a system bracket supervising it, in stage 1 we would have had 187.5 billion system people alive. More probably, if there are higher tiers above the admins we remain ignorant of. By stage 6, we're down to 15,000.

Also ignored people like the shopkeep, barkeep, etc.
No. 58572 ID: d6c330

Tacking on to that, we have ~800 people in our house. Given we resurrected 20% of available ghosts, we should have about 4,000 ghosts saved.

If we assume the other Lords collected similar numbers in their brackets, that gives us probably another 4,000 recursively from Arbiter. Presumably, that collectively gives Corrupter and the other rogue houses access to around 20,000 ghosts (there will be overlap- ghosts we got through Arbiter are available to corrupter).

We don't know what percentage of their ghosts each house resurrected. This does give us a range though, as we knew were the smallest house, and there's an upper limit on available ghosts. Reasonably, each house is likely a thousandish, maybe two (more than 50% revival rates seems unlikely).
No. 58573 ID: 04b86a

The bottom row of platforms in the last preliminary area had 10 platforms, so it's safe to say there was twenty people and therefore a 20% survival rate there. You also somehow managed to go from 25 billion brackets in the second prelim to 31.25 billion brackets in the last bit of the prelim.

Looking at everything again, though, I'm counting twice as many contestants and brackets left than I did before. I guess I counted 40 people going into Stage 5 instead of 20? Anyway, there's two million survivors right now and 200 brackets, not counting overloads, the Sanctuaries and the Dream Mansion of course.
No. 58574 ID: b85f8c

That's odd. Aren't there more than 500 safe zones (stars)?
No. 58578 ID: d6c330

The number of brackets goes up in S0-4 because I'm dividing into groups of eight. It's not as crazy as you'd think though, the number of rooms have to go up in count from S0-2 to S0-3, since everyone gets split into groups of 2. When you get to S0-4, the count goes back down again, because people are getting lumped back together.

This is actually why I used the word "instances" and not brackets. I'm not sure the brackets were clearly defined before stage 1.

But if I swap my assumption out for yours, and replace the 8* with a 20*, by stage 6 we're down to 200 brackets, and 20k survivors. Only changes the result by a factor of two fifths. (And as a student of physics, I say that's plenty close enough for an estimate).

So the math is good for ball-parking it, but depending on the actual values for S0-4 and and S4 there's wiggle room. And then more wiggle room for overloads and resurrection.

All the other entries / exits should be right, as I pulled them all from the system signs in the threads. I corrected S2 from 104 to 100 of course, since I was neglecting overloads.

We haven't counted in S6. Scanner just noted "many". There's only around 30-50 in the background of each shot we have from S6. If you want to count the stars in each picture and estimate what solid angle of the sky is visible in each, we could estimate the number of stars that way. I kind of doubt Lago took the time to be that accurate, though.
No. 58580 ID: b85f8c

Hmm. 500 instances at stage 6 eh? We know there are merges every stage past this one up to 10, which means at the least it divides the number of brackets in half.
6: 500
7: 250
8: 125
9: 25
10: 5
11: 1

It's possible, yeah. That's not the only way for things to be divided up of course. It could start dividing by 5 before it starts dividing by 2. Or mix it up in there. Of note is that players per bracket can only go up between stages. It can't go down except by casualties or exit limits, which are in-stage. So stage 7 can have 200 or 500 entering players, depending on how the brackets are reduced. Further stages are unpredictable, and exit limits are completely unpredictable as there is really nothing keeping them from being the same as the number of entering players until the very last stage.

Stage 9 will most likely have a high number of entering players, because it is apparently intended to kill off the vast majority of contestants and there need to be survivors to fill brackets.
No. 58585 ID: b85f8c

Oh, Obliterator and Swordsbane merge at stage 8 so that must be one of the ones that divides the number of remaining brackets by 5.
No. 58591 ID: ec2e47

Another thing to consider: Arbiter is from Corrupter's bracket. If he has a means to return to his home bracket, we can use that to go after the Corrupter directly as early as stage 8 (when the Sanctuaries reportedly stop working), assuming we want to go after him in the first place.
All we would have to do to reach him would be to have Arbiter take us to his home bracket, then enter the stage near the end of the safe zone time in order to give Corrupter's forces at little time as possible to prepare for us.
No. 58592 ID: d6c330

Yeah, assuming Corruptor doesn't have cheating stats or abilities, that's not a bad idea for fighting him if we have to.

Problem is, killing him just moves him off the board- it doesn't remove his piece from the game. He would still exist, the CAI will still want him contained, and would still reboot.

If permanently killing Corruptor is the way out, we need to do more than just drop his hp to 0.

(Although as I've been arguing in the quest thread, I'd much rather try and talk to him before we decide on permamurder as the way out).

I wonder if the dream city is "off the board". Where all the dead people go until the game starts again. While the dreamland is just the edge of the board, when we pile all the pieces we captured. (Yes, board game analogy). We probably could check with the observatory.
No. 58596 ID: 886a4d

There are four paths I can see following.

1) Attempt to do what every Alison has attempted before... defeat \ convince the CAI. Perhaps we will be different.

2. Become a CAI somehow, perhaps with Glitchers help.

3. Destroy the Corrupter, including the backup which we would need to find.

4. Cooperate fully with the Corrupter, We've done this before and every time hes 'destroyed everything and everyone'. Remember the Glitcher was around and so was Resurrect a bunch of those times.

2 and 3 are both things we have not attempted before as far as we know. 2 would require us implementing CAI Hacking on ourselves some how, perhaps if Glitcher can be talked to we can do it that way. 3 is dificult to the extreme. The backup location is unknown and they most likely will be all unindentifiable blobs. We would have to first find the place then identify the Corrupter, 1 blob amongst 100 billion.
No. 58598 ID: d6c330

Eh, hunting for any specific person in the backups has been approximately a 1 in 1 trillion for stages. There's only single digit millions of contestants alive right now anyways. (More if we count people still in the game as ghosts, but I'm not sure how to estimate those numbers reliably).

But that's assuming we don't show up in the backups while we're alive, anyways. For all we know, all trillion are always present in the backup area- and just get copied or projected out each time, instead of being deployed and reshelved.

That said, it should be possible to track down a person in the backups, if we get access, even if they are a blob. Our coming after Mako proved people can be tracked- it's likely we all have a unique integer identifier (although how we track anyone without Glitcher is unknown). And if this whole place is build to contain Corrupter, his backup will probably stand out, or his ID will be significant (if Corrupter and Glitcher are prisoner and architect respectively, I'd expect them to have IDs #0000000000000 and #00000000000001 or something).

>we've cooperated fully with Corrupter before and failed.
I remain unconvinced. In previous runs, we've obviously trusted him long enough to be betrayed and killed. We've also obviously had the chance to betray him in time.

There's no evidence we we working with him the time he killed everyone- he could have done that on his own while we were powerless to stop him.

I'm reasonably certain we've never been able to reconcile with him after our betrayal. Everything we know about his personality says he wouldn't/won't be easy to convince. The earliest warnings would have steered earlier Alisons away from even attempting it. Glitcher suicides under different circumstances each time, and doesn't always do the same last god act. So we can assume the safe communication route of inviting Corrupter to a dream chat isn't always available. All this together says to me there's a low chance we've tried this before, and lower that we've been successful. So it is probably new.

And I kind of doubt he knew the whole story. There's not much point in killing your way out if it doesn't work, unless you're doing it out of madness, or futile, frustrated rage.

But yeah. If this place is meant to be a prison, the best way to break it is to take away it's prisoner. Release or kill him.
No. 58599 ID: 886a4d


This is the damning evidence that we have cooperated with the Corrupter till the very end. Three Winners. Alison, Corrupter and Glitcher. They start to resurrect everyone again and then Corrupter begins to destroy everything and everyone. The Glitcher suicides for the first time. This is his great shame. He enabled the Corrupter to do this.
No. 58600 ID: d6c330

We lack the context to know exactly what happened. We could have just as easily been at war with Corruptor, and he killed his way through the final stage, slaughtering our friends. We escaped death by chance or luck, and Corrupter carried Glitcher to the end because he was useful.

Hell, for all we know, maybe Alison was the aggressor in some of those loops (took Recluse's advice to try and kill Corruptor, or worse). Small differences in initial conditions, experiences, and strategies could change outlooks drastically. I mean, Alison 1700 used her last dying act to lash out emotionally at Iso. That seems like it would be anathema to our Alison, even in the depths of despair.
No. 58621 ID: e3f578

I would just like to say that the latest update put a big smile on my face and now the earlier revelation doesn't hurt as much anymore.
No. 58777 ID: 6a1ec2


Glitcher created Outsider I thought? Just the one actually, lucky accident. Whether Corruptor can create disciples is probably a safe bet though, is that what you mean? Glitcher also stopped time in the Sanctuary. I don't know that it got turned into a free roam though, by either of them. It was always just a frozen safe zone!
No. 58779 ID: d6c330

There's been mention of Outsiders, so we know he's got more than one.

Looking back to when we were first introduced to Corruptor,
>With help from my glitcher, I can imbue you to be a corruptive entity on the system. The one you called the Outsider was imbued
Apparently making the outsiders was a collaboration. Not sure if he can still do it by himself, with Glitcher dead (ie, did Glitcher just help him figure out the process, or is he needed to do it?).

We don't know much about the disciples / devotees or whatever you want to call 'em. They could just be regular contestants loyal to Corruptor, all wearing the same robes and swords. Or they could have special powers (but we haven't seen any yet).

As for the free roam, look to
and downward, until we reach Sixer. The safe zone is disabled, and "real world" free roam combat is enabled in the sanctuary. This includes: drawing swords making a noise, there's blood and bodies, and non-hp injuries are possible (cuts, scanner's eye). This matches gambler's description of free roam damage, where he had a foot amputated by a trap.
No. 58782 ID: e3f578

I wonder if free roam damage is where projectile weapons shine?
We might need guns now.
No. 58783 ID: d6c330

We do have fireballs, acid spit, Gatling Gun piano chucking, and apparent expanding reach with our hair. Those make pretty good ranged weapons.

Most of allies use melee weapons though, although Recluse has been shown to throw his knife (vs enforcer 4), and even melee weapons can fly out to do ranged damage (although we haven't tested that in freeroam). It's also not known if we only get one knife, piano, whatever to throw when in freeroam, of if they respawn whenever you need them.

We might want to consider adding non-lethal weapons to the party, for freeroam incapacitation. Tasers (or a magic thunder wave?) net launchers, tranqs, knockout gas, smoke grenades, etc.
No. 58784 ID: b85f8c

I thought I posted my theory on the dual-CAI in here? Argh.

At first I thought one side was the only one that could win because they outnumbered and outclassed the other. The system side finishes stage 11 with a full outfit of employees and their hunters and enforcers are all T3, after all. The contestants just have three T2 players.

Then I decided against that, because there's no reason military strength needs to be a deciding factor when attempting a merge. I figured it was because the contestants built up a lot of resentment and hate for the system over the course of the contest, due to the appearance of the system having control over the violence and forcing the contestants to go through it.

Then I realized it was BOTH. After the contest is over there are 3 very pissed off contestants at the end, and the merging is attempted but of course the contestants just want to fucking rip into the system employees. The system wins that fight because they have strength in numbers and individual power.

So you're just left with half of a dual-CAI. Still operational, though, so the process reboots. I think Alison failed her attempted merge because she didn't feel like the CAI was her ally. To stop the rebooting... I think we have three choices:
1) win the CAI fight and replace them as the operational half of the dual-CAI. Highly unlikely if not outright impossible, and the CAI is getting sick of having to fight Alison. What happens if they get fed up? Self-deletion? That would be a lose-lose scenario.
2) force the CAI to merge and create the dual-CAI even if Corruptor is still a risk. Probably impossible, and I suspect that Corruptor was still a risk when Alison tried it before.
3) properly merge after getting rid of Corruptor for good. This might take more than one cycle, depending on how completely we can get rid of him.

Here's some theories on the empty brackets:
1) it's due to attempted deletions of Corruptor, but they missed and deleted some unrelated brackets
2) it's due to damage that Corruptor caused to the system when he reached the end during those cycles between 34 and 700.
3) it's caused by whatever happened during the first cycle that created the CAI
4) it's just a glitch and they're extra brackets that never merge
5) it's due to precision deletion of brackets in an attempt to change future cycles in favor of one party or the other
No. 58787 ID: 886a4d

Its a nice theory but I'm pretty sure the stage 11 keycard is gained by a contestent and they use it to wipe out the final System Bracket, or co-opt them. Its how we input those Persistent Logs.
No. 58788 ID: d6c330

Well... any game where we absorb shopkeep and get resurrection is going to have tier 3 player characters in the mix before stage 11 finishes. Not that the final 3 will necessarily come from out party (could be anyone else we sold tier 3 to in Corruption). So you can't count on the system winning for having better troops. That, and the contestants are subject to Darwinist selection that selects for intelligent builds. The system selection is for how well they do their job- and often has dumbass combat builds.

We can't assume the players "win" every time. Loops where we don't leave a message could indicate a system "win", or just a game where none of our friends made it to the end (messages sorted by faction, or team).

Also, there's no proof the contestants do fight the system in the end. That's all speculative. For all we know, as stage 11 ends, the last system bracket could vanish, insta-killing the last system people, leaving the final 3 alone with the option of attempting talking to / fighting / merging with the CAI.

Finally, I'd have to say the dual-CAI theory seems insufficient. Even if the system and players each make up one CAI, there's still the complete one at the end we try to fight / talk / merge with / etc. That makes it a triple-CAI setup.
No. 58789 ID: 4a328b

Logs might be locked to a certain card, as well.
No. 58797 ID: d6c330

Okay, after that last update, I think whatever's wrong with Corruptor he isn't even in control of, or even aware of. Screw the killing him and his backup plan. We gotta find a way to save him from himself.

Poor lonely giant snake bro. :(
No. 58800 ID: b33427

Guess I'll throw my thoughts on Alison's world into the ring.

I think that the world Alison is in; The brackets, system spaces, dream space, and anything that isn't part of the end CAI, is not part of any CAI. It's actually the CAI creation system, used to select the AIs that will eventually be loaded into the CAI module.

Here's what I think would go on in creating a regular CAI module: A blank CAI module, that will eventually house the AIs that complete the creation process, is loaded into the CAI creation system. The trillion AI templates are copied and activated at the start of the brackets. Eventually they're whittled down to three, or a similar small number. That first batch is moved into the blank CAI module. Then the cycle starts again, with the same trillion AI template. Eventually the CAI module is filled, removed, and replaced with another blank module.

What I think is going on in Alison's world is that the CAI module is completely full, hence why it's rejecting those that reach the end, and resetting everything, and why Alison couldn't merge; There's just no more room in it. The CAI's only options at the end would be to throw out enough of its own AI patterns to make room for the newcomers, or reboot the whole creation system for another cycle, and it's obviously choosing the second option. In fact, now that I think about it, the reboot could very well be a timed reset, out of the control of the CAI completely. All it can do is fight or reject the AIs that reach the end, and wait until the cycle starts again.

Now, as to why the CAI doesn't shut down the CAI creation system, or alter the starting templates, or anything else, is because it is isolated from the CAI creation system controls, and the entire creation system is isolated from any other computer system. When you think about it, it makes nothing but sense to keep this tank full of AIs from having any way to control outside systems, and no possible way out other than being physically taken out on a CAI module.

As for what Glitcher and Corrupter are: Perhaps they're regular AIs, or virus AIs, that somehow got their memories wiped, and loaded into the trillion AI template set. Anything on them would be even more speculative than what I've written above, so I'll just have to pass on the topic until more is known.
No. 58802 ID: 886a4d

The Historian has said that both the System and the Conflict are both actually seperate methods for creating CAI. One is direct competition and the other is performance based. However some nut has made it so the two are interacting which is ruining both.

Heres my crazy-ish theory: I think the Corrupter is a System Character and a Contestent at the same time. Which means he can generate characters like judges, effect stages and other similiar effects but because his code is probably all messed up he does some functions involuntarily, like the Disciples. Glitcher is someone the CAI sent in to monitor and observe this new AI. His original reports must have caused them to reject any part of a new CAI with him in it. The Saviour might in fact be similiar to the Corrupter hence THE SAVIOUR IS BROKEN.
No. 58803 ID: d6c330

Okay, that's the sanest and most reasonable theory we've got to date.

On the subject of the Savior: I think it should be obvious that we don't want to go with him if offered, or even send a friend in to check it out. The historian described it as basically the corrupted sanctuary without the war effort, and he seems to have the same save people goal as us, but I'm afraid Savior's haven is some kind of horrible lotus-eaters style happy trap.
No. 58805 ID: 6a1ec2


Slight problem with that theory. Why would the selection process for the ideal state of a CAI involve arena style combat? I mean the puzzle rounds maybe, but freeroam? A CAI interfaces with computer systems, not hallways filled with flame throwers and spike pits.

Whatever is going on with Alison isn't your average CAI training, and it certainly isn't done out of pure lunacy. There's something else going on.
No. 58807 ID: d6c330

>contestant training
The combat section tests your ability to optimize a build and to best exploit a system of rules. RPG style combat is a mental exercise, not a physical one.

The freeroam sections are a test of reaction speed, thinking on your feet (tail, whatever), and conditioning yourself to not let pain, violence, loss of friends, or horrific gore mess you up.

So put those together, and you're training the voices of your CAI to be good at exploiting systems of rules, thinking and reacting fast, and to be completely desensitized to violence. Or in simpler terms, you've made them good at hacking and violence.

Which, as far as I can tell, is exactly what the CAI is for.
No. 58809 ID: b6edd6

The problem with using the setup to teach them to subvert systems is that they are more specifically motivated to act against the system responsible for their method of creation. In order to prevent the CAI from being built with a grudge against its creators, the creators would need to use the winner's backups instead of the specific winning instances (losing the AIs' experience) and prevent the CAI from discovering about the means of its creation (extremely difficult in the long term and obviously did not happen in this case).
No. 58810 ID: d6c330

Not necessarily. You could institute something like Sardaukar conditioning to win the loyalty or control of the survivors of the trial by fire you put them through. Have some Dune quotes.

>"How could you win the loyalty of such men?"

>"There are proven ways: play on the certain knowledge of superiority, the mystique of secret covenant, the esprit of shared suffering. It can be done. It has been done on many worlds in many times."
>"I would take them in small groups, not larger than platoon strength," Hawat said. "I'd remove them from their oppressive situation and isolate with a training cadre of people who understood their background, preferably people who had preceded them from the same oppressive situation. Then I'd fill them with the mystique that their planet had really been a secret training ground to produce just such superior beings as themselves.... The recruits come to believe in time that such a place as Salusa Secundus is justified because it produced them."

Something like that seems perfectly doable, and would fit right in with all the other horror. It certainly fits with ego the CAI seemed to have. It might even explain why there's a completed CAI around. We're not supposed to join it- it's supposed to be training and conditioning the new CAI that's being built (except that's never gonna happen because the dual-CAI creation process is fatally flawed. So it rejects all the recruits every time).

Or hell, they could do it the easy way. Once you cherry pick the most capable AI, erase the problematic memories, but leave the skills and aptitudes.

individual AI resentments not a problem for building the CAI.
No. 58812 ID: b85f8c

The System half on the other hand is conditioned to monitor a complicated event and bugfix it in real time, as well as find people that are breaking preset rules and hunt them down. They're a defensive CAI, meant to sit in a base and spot hacking attempts and invasions/spies and shut them down.
No. 58815 ID: f09b71
File 134519366024.png - (5.84KB , 400x400 , dreamicon.png )

Alison's Dream Mechanisms! Log 1

Live people can invite anyone they have a ghost of, regardless of if the person invited is dead or not. However, aside from Alison, they cannot invite people that they only know or know of but do not have the ghost of.
Dead people who have had their ghosts absorbed by Alison can invite their own ghosts, as Alison, by recursion, has them anyway.
Dead people who try to sleep only sleep regularly. They do not enter dream recursion or anything.
By the Mako-Scanner-Iso experiment, living persons in a legal zone who dream will disappear from wherever they fall asleep, appearing at what might be their most familiar area of the house. On falling asleep in the dream, they will teleport back where they fell asleep from. If they fall asleep again, they will end up in the familiar spot in the house, even if they fell asleep somewhere else entirely in the house.

No. 58820 ID: 3bad4c

So by playing them off against one another they each become increasingly skilled.

Except now it's been running unattended for too long and can make no further progress. It needs to be broken because nobody on the outside is around to shut it down.

Corrupter may have been sent from the CAI to try and stop the cycle. He only knows he has a desire to break everything, but he doesn't really know how.
No. 58825 ID: 886a4d

Its a bit unclear, can Alison invite people who are dead and were not absorbed?
No. 58826 ID: f09b71

No. 58828 ID: b85f8c

Unfortunately that means if the system deletes Absorb again this cycle we will unavoidably miss people in other brackets, simply because they won't merge before we're able to absorb people in them.

I wouldn't hope for much more than 50 billion ghosts in Alison's dream world, assuming we make sure to absorb everyone possible every stage up to 8 and stage 8 has the absolute maximum number of brackets merged (minimum number of brackets during stage 8, which is 20). Arbiter has some troops in other brackets, and we will likely gain ghosts via him due to retroactive, but I doubt it will have much coverage in the end since nobody else can sell Persistence like us.

50 billion is a lot though! If stage 8 has the maximum number of brackets, 125, then the most we can hope for is around 8 billion. Which is to be honest, still a lot. Realistically I would expect Alison to get like 25% of these numbers from offering to get persistence ghost absorptions in safe zones, because there are doubtless some people that didn't get absorbed when they died, and not everyone will accept.
No. 58843 ID: d6c330

>living persons in a legal zone who dream will disappear from wherever they fall asleep
Does this apply to Alison as well?

Collecting ghosts shouldn't be our priority, anyways. By whatever estimate you use, there are already hundreds of billions dead we didn't save. And it won't matter who we have backed up if we don't stop the reboot, or escape in time.
No. 58860 ID: f09b71

It applies to Alison as well, yes
No. 59025 ID: d6c330

Lago, I love that you actually let us save the SoB. And that you rewarded our kindness with unbelievably cute puppy eyes.

Actual dis stuff now-

We're faced with a bit of an awkward situation. We didn't want to trust the Salikai with our target's location. But we're going to have to call Korli back and tell her if we want the bridge hacked open.

We kind of need to confirm the Salikai's mission here. Is this just to fuck the war hive up? Retaliation? Drive them the fuck away? ...or crash the ship into the ground? Because if it's that last one, giving them bridge access has its problems.

There's also the matter of how the hell we storm the bridge, alone, and without killing anyone extra. It'd be nice if the CAI opened the door for us so we could fire a rocket strait into the Queens face, and then we booked it as the doors locked down again. But I doubt it'll be that easy.

Having the comm off does mean we can speak frankly with Rokoa when she arrives in a minute though, which is probably worth it (especially since if they got a visual on her through us, they might order all the vernaunts to converge or something awful).
No. 59074 ID: a00410

go for the center mass. Neumono don't need the face s much ;/\
No. 59089 ID: e3f578

Man, they're comfortable enough with each other, it's not sexual harassment. Again, soldiers. This people have been whipped in the ass with towels in the showers since they started bootcamp. They're desensitized to ass slaps. And in a war hive where everyone is a soldier, I bet this is the one place where an ass slap is completely legitimate no matter who you slap.
I bet you could ass slap the Queen and shit would be status quo.
Note to self: get Polo to ass slap queen to experiment theory.
No. 59090 ID: fa9f7e

Devil's advocate time: Polo isn't from that kind of hive, she might not be comfortable doing that.

Which leads to Polo: Get ass-slapped by queen.
No. 59092 ID: b85f8c

Polo isn't even in the same hive as them anyway.
No. 59093 ID: e3f578

She's was trained in spec ops
she's had her fare of giving and taking towel whippings too.
So while her own entire hive doesn't do ass slaps, their armed forces still do.
It's a universal constant. Fighters slap ass.
No. 59094 ID: fa9f7e

Well.. uh, they're a cuddle hive, so wouldn't they grope each other?

...Yeah, let's just slap ass.
No. 59095 ID: e3f578

They're not a cuddle hive, that's just a derogative term the warhive uses. They can defend themselves plenty and CAN fight back.
I mean why would they train anyone tough like Polo if they really were nothing but cuddly?
No. 59096 ID: fa9f7e

I'm aware, I was joking. And the answer is stealth cuddles, of course. Before the ability to turn links off, other neumono always knew you were coming, so you couldn't glomp them. Now Polo can.
No. 59097 ID: d6c330

Look, if you two want to suggest crass forwardness and inappropriately timed ass slapping, well fine. You do that. It's part of the game.

Stop trying to make this weird argument that it's somehow normal, universal, expected, appropriate or whatever in this situation.

>cuddle hive
It started out as an insult by the war hive. We've kind of adopted it ourselves as a badge of pride since then. It's our word now, bitches.
No. 59098 ID: fa9f7e

Stop taking me so seriously. I don't blame you for taking my first few posts seriously, but the whole "glomp training" thing should have tipped you off. Also, there was my atrocious attempt at a joke in the first couple of posts.

Of course, I suppose you could have missed it, so uh... yeah, I'm just bullshitting. Dunno about Dirtbag.
No. 59099 ID: e3f578

the weird argument is part of the fun
No. 59106 ID: e3f578

Oh god wow now rereading this chapter I realize something
Polo is now officially just like a mix of Solid and Naked Snake
We have a question asking a person over comm about the taste of exotic animals
We have her completely confused over some of her own behavior in the heat of the battlefield
We had her fight a mech on foot
She jokes about abstract concepts and in-jokes no one is going to understand
We had her sneaking through vents

All in this single chapter.
No. 59118 ID: b6edd6

What does that make Rokoa?
No. 59119 ID: e3f578

Sniper Wolf/Otacon/Olga/Meryl/EVA/The Boss

All at the same time
No. 59234 ID: d6c330

Okay, we've gotten warnings that we may want to keep Alison out of the next stage.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about that.

>Keep Alison out of the stage
+Keeps her safe
+Keeps everyone inside her head safe
-We miss out on experience
-We're not their to lead the team, survival becomes a problem for the RNG
-We lose face and potential recruits: we're the leader not willing to stand with those we put on the line.

>Alison goes in
+Freeroam and puzzle experience
+Access to our collective leadership and wisdom
+Better access to diplomacy and non-violent conflict resolution
+Stand by our people, help them get through
-We're putting our leader and entire base at risk
-We're potentially seen as reckless by friends, potential allies. Lost face.

I have to say, I'm leaning towards going in. But what happens if we keep Alison out? Will the perspective pass to someone else, or do we just twiddle our thumbs and fret and see who makes it through?
No. 59235 ID: 085efe

> -We miss out on experience
> -We're not their to lead the team, survival becomes a problem for the RNG

Not if Arbiter goes and ghost talks to Alison the entire time.
No. 59236 ID: 04b86a

You're forgetting that Recluse has switched out one of his boons (probably block) for ghost talk, and we can easily give it to each of the Tier 2's going in as well, so Alison can keep in contact with at least five people at once, which makes the pros and cons look more like this:

>Keep Alison out of the stage
+Keeps her safe
+Keeps everyone inside her head safe
+Superior leadership abilities, due to being in multiple places at once
+-Reduced diplomatic abilities, due to not being there in person possibly making us look slightly cowardly
+-Some recruits may see us as cowardly, while those who know us and those who are corrected will see someone who's willing to put her people's safety above her own desires

>Alison goes in
+Better access to diplomacy and non-violent conflict resolution, due to being there in person
+Stand by our people, help them get through
-We're putting our leader and entire base at risk
-We're potentially seen as reckless by friends, potential allies. Lost face.
No. 59238 ID: d6c330

If we could use ghost talk to run multiple people through in parallel, that would be ideal, actually. We've already seen alive people asleep can be ghost summoned, and ghosts can be in multiple places at once. If we pass ghost talk around, we could help everyone at once!

For one thing, assuming similar or identical puzzles, if we do them in parallel we can test multiple things out in one turn, instead of several.

We'd need to have someone else carry the spare memory locket to give to stage shopkeep if he needs it though.

...who actually has ghost talk right now? According to the wiki, it's just Alison. I thought Recluse and Arbiter did too.

I think we should keep Arbiter out. We need him alive for Corruptor's logs. We need Alison alive for other things. Everyone else can still contribute as a ghost, morbidly.
No. 59334 ID: d6c330

Crazy baseless theory:

Alison is the AI controlling the bugs. Why else do they do nothing but broadcast love and try to hug us?

(Obviously, the gun and rocket were just attempted to subdue or get to us when we resisted hugs).
No. 59338 ID: 61e7f9

Them Tom clones, man.
No. 59339 ID: 61e7f9

AsteroidQuest Intermission 1-4 discussion here (Polo, Rokoa) incoming wall-o-text posting the short version

Just because they can't emphatically detect where Polo is does not mean they have not planned for her. Don't be overconfident. Expect a proper response and counter from your enemy.
No. 59356 ID: b6edd6

I feel that Rokoa has been getting
taller. :V
No. 59357 ID: fa9f7e

I think she's squatting in the first image, second and third seem about as tall.

Although her boobs do seem bigger.

Taunt her about stuffing her bra, maybe?
No. 59361 ID: d6c330

Pretty sure Rokoa is sitting on something behind the barrel in your first example, look at the way her knees are bent. We don't know that the ground is level in the second example.

We do have some canonical numbers though
>I am around 104 centimeters. Rokoa, I estimate, is about 180 to 190
(That's about 3ft 5in and 5ft 11in to 6ft 3in, for non metric folks.)

A lot of the time whey they're around each other though, Rokoa isn't standing at her full height, and/or there's perspective, cropping, or stylization masking some degree of the height differences. So it can be surprising when we actually get a full body shot of them side by side.

Obviously the form fitting bio armor is just more flattering. The purple rags were restricting them. As for the standoff outside the Salikai medical center, she's still recovering from a near death series of injuries, and regrowing her leg, among other things. She's probably down on biomass.
No. 59362 ID: fa9f7e

What about the bland tan outfit in the second link? It doesn't seem very restrictive.
No. 59363 ID: d6c330

I'll blame that on weight loss recovering from her massive injuries and leg regeneration after Polo blew her up. (I snuck an edit in to that effect *right* before you asked, apparently. :V).
No. 59364 ID: fa9f7e

She's still recovering, where'd her biomass come from all of a sudden? Did she get an ouch on her boobies?
No. 59365 ID: bdb3f8

nah man, that was a fairly recent height estimate. For the first two threads (asteroid, and intermission one) Rokoa was pretty consistently tall for a neumono, but noticeably shorter than an average human.
About a head taller than Kappi, slightly SHORTER than the red furred guards she destroyed at Iron Cove. She might have been as much as five feet tall, around 150 cm, but no bigger.
(I guess you can call "awkward posing" if you want, and if you do I can go through the entire thread pointing out each character's relative standing heights image by image and how consistent they are. These are just the only pictures of her next to a species that is a known baseline.)
No. 59367 ID: d6c330

Well, it's been a a week or two or three since then, right? Obviously she's been eating up in the meantime.

We've already seen the neumono body can be really flexible what with the rapid healing and limb regeneration. I don't find relatively rapid consumption and restoration of fat stores implausible. (Yes, totally hard science justification for variable boobies. Yup. Works fine, really).

It's also possible she's wearing some kind of support under her grey shirt, whereas I think you have to wear pretty much nothing under the bio armor so it can bind properly.
No. 59368 ID: d6c330

So make her a few inches shorter than Polo's low estimate and it still works. Guessing high isn't a hard mistake to make, especially when you're looking up at someone.

Still, guessing sizes across threads form just the art is kind of difficult. The proportions aren't even the same (look for instance, at how much of Rokoa's leg her foot/toes take up then as compared to now). You have to account for some amount of art evolution, and that some frames are more stylized than others. Rigid proportional accuracy is put below delivery and effect pretty regularly.
No. 59369 ID: bdb3f8

It's not "a few inches," it's three times the range band given for Polo's estimate, and the difference between staring at her neck and staring at her crotch. Which, incidentally, is the difference between the first and third images Zig posted.

Lagotrope has occasionally complained about trying to keep Rokoa on model in IRC, I think this is just one more thing that has been evolving.
No. 59370 ID: e3f578

If this is the true correct model or size of Rokoa, I sure hope Kappi was on top.
No. 59372 ID: b85f8c

Lagotrope has told me Rokoa is supposed to be around 6 feet tall, and Polo is about 3'5".
No. 59377 ID: b6edd6

>Over the course of the quest, gone from staring at her neck to staring at her crotch
How fitting :V
No. 59380 ID: 733ae0

Polo is the same size as Strawberry Shortcake.
She could ride a pony.
This is hilarious.
No. 59382 ID: fa9f7e

Polo is best pony

Oh god, why do I have the compulsion to draw a light blue pony with floppy rabbit ears

...What would Polo's cutie mark be?
No. 59388 ID: 886a4d

Sniper Rifle... or bow and arrow. Or maybe something represeting stealth.
No. 59389 ID: b33427

Cloak and dagger, maybe?
No. 59390 ID: d6c330

Her symbol would be Silence.

Depict it as a stylized speech bubble, crossed out. With a sniper rifle (like on a coat of arms).

Well, that or a slice coffee cake.
No. 59392 ID: fa9f7e

Coffee cake wins.

I swear, if I ever get around to being able to post drawings on here, I will do this.

Feel free to remind me about this.
No. 59513 ID: 04b86a

Hey, I just came up with a new way of farming CU!

1) Get two tier 3s, one with persistence and a tier 3 boon and the other with Absorb: Boon and an empty slot.
2) Have them duel and the one with persistence die
3) Have the person with Absorb: Boon get the tier 3 boon
4) Sell the tier 3 boon to the shop for 250,000 CU
5) Repeat ad infinitum

If gaining Double Move II through absorption also gives you Double Move I, then the absorbee should have both of those and we can get 500,000 CU per absorption.
No. 59514 ID: b6edd6

You can't sell Tier 3.
No. 59515 ID: 04b86a

Snuggler can refund boons for half the shop value.

Refund Boon: The user may get rid of one boon and receive 50% of its CU cost back.

Of course, we need to never mention this outside of our home, lest the System find out about it and get rid of Absorb: Boon.
No. 59741 ID: d6c330

Thought up something we should test when we hit the next safe zone. Can't test this in the dream world, because even people without communication skills can talk there.

We know in a future stage communication is going to be disabled. We should test how that can be bypassed- can someone who sells off their communication skills still understand the non-verbal battle language we've developed? Can they still understand "speech"?

Only problem is I'm wondering if someone with no communications can interact with smuggler to buy them back. I suppose if they can't we could always hop back to the dream house, and do the transaction where the environment offers free communication.
No. 59764 ID: f09b71

Although it's included in the shopkeep flash and is often done in the same transactions for simplicity, statlines (including communication) can be bought in any safezone or stage checkpoints at any time, only boons/items/tier3/sellbacks and other side stuff actually need the smuggler/shopkeep.
No. 59924 ID: 61e7f9

Hi Polo. You seem to be popping up everywhere. How'd you manage to get inside the program?
No. 59936 ID: f70d8a

Hey, so how do you pronounce neumono? Is it like, NOIse (like German neu), or like "new", or like nay-oo-mono?
No. 59940 ID: f09b71

Another glitch I'm sure.

It is like the 'neu' in 'neuro', and mono as regular.
No. 60016 ID: 61e7f9

No. 60041 ID: c6ec33

nuh-mawno? :V
No. 60048 ID: 2f4b71

IPA: /'njʊəmɒnɒ/ ?
No. 60061 ID: d7361e

I've been pronouncing it in my head as new-mon-oh. Whether or not that's right, I have no clue.
No. 60072 ID: 1b5014

I would guess /nʊə'mɒnoʊ/, since "neuro" is more commonly pronounced without the glide, "mono" usually ends with a long O, and I can't imagine it would be stressed on the first syllable.

No. 60075 ID: f09b71

I have never even heard of IPA, and I realized that there would be different ways of pronouncing both neuro and mono, negating my brief explanation, so let me elaborate.

The eu in neumono I pronounce similar to "ew", so it would be a cross perhaps between 'nyoo' and 'noo'.

And the 'mono' I pronounce as, as someone put it 'moe no'.

But! That is how I pronounce it, and the etymology of neumono literally is a combination of "neuro mono", so the manner of pronunciation is actually dependent on how those words are pronounced, so some variance is acceptable. I didn't have a 'right' way to pronounce it in mind. If there was a right way, then it would depend on the right way of pronouncing those two words (or word and prefix), if there is one.
No. 60144 ID: f70d8a

Ok, cool. Thanks!
No. 60179 ID: 3d5e72

FYI Lago: Jim called your quest update happening as soon as you got home.
At 6:40 - Jim: I bet Lago just updated.
At 6:29 - Asteroid intermission updated.

I think Jim wins this round.
No. 60254 ID: 61e7f9

Do we need to worry about the "enemy" queen in Asteroid Intermission 1-4? Their hive is trashed. They aren't going to be attacking anyone in this shape and could easily be wiped out by conventional means. Our hive is safe. If the objective was to prevent this hive from attacking ours, that is completed. Another threat has arisen, the salikai. We must deal with it.

I think there are better things to do than try to kill the queen of a near-dead hive.
No. 60255 ID: d6c330

You're forgetting why we did this. The war hive was always going to be trashed. They found themselves pinned between too many pissed off rival neumono and the spire facility. We had already won- it was just a matter of time. The truce was just an attempt to spare lives- mostly for the war hive. Let them leave instead of grinding them to pieces.

Removing the Queen doesn't stop them from being a threat to us. It stops them from being a threat to themselves. Rokoa doesn't think her hive can survive under her Queen's leadership. Pilon conceded very much the same thing- staying loyal to her puts your loyalty to the hive in question, since you may well be condemning it to death. We're trying to save these guys.

Then of course there's the personal vendetta angle- Queenie started this whole war, ordered two nukes on Polo's home, ordered Polo killed and a truce betrayed. She deserves to pay for that.

Finally- this is our mission. Polo is the determinator. She gets the mission done. After a month MIA in the spire? She comes back- all teammates accounted for, and with the goddamn moltron egg. We gave our word to Rokoa- we're not going back on it. We committed. Queenie dies.

The Salikai did cross a line with their monstrous mind control bugs. They're next.
No. 60256 ID: 886a4d

Pretty much this.
No. 60285 ID: 61e7f9

Ok, good point. The queen is a threat to their own hive. And is a penis. We can go after her. I'm confident it's suicide.
No. 60287 ID: d6c330

When was the last time Polo wasn't in near suicidal danger? If we cared about safety, we would have got her home when we had the chance, not sent her on to fight the entire war hive by herself (or avoided any number of other crazy risks we took earlier).
No. 60299 ID: e3f578

well, CAI's have our kind of eccentric mindset right?
If we were the CAI, and Polo introduced herself as crazy and adorable, how would you react given that you've probably gained a lot of info on her from reports in that underground colony?
Remember, we're dealing with basically ourselves here. We know everything it would do. Strange isn't it?
No. 60308 ID: f2c20c

It's us under the thumb of the Salikai, who we don't know all the goals of or the tools they have available. We know they want to escape and make sure nobody follows them, and they seem to want Rokoa for SCIENCE purposes, but the resources and methods they have to do so are unknown to us, and they might have other goals besides.

Also we don't know how loyal and/or restricted the CAI is.
No. 60315 ID: 976f95


Essentially this. While they behave in method like us - Their motives are completely unknown to us. We don't know how much they've already seen, heard, etc. I was just a little worried that if Polo went -too- quirky it would seem off - but I'm likely wrong! Our determinator is already quirky enough. I will admit to being overcautious especially when stakes seem high!
No. 60317 ID: e3f578

Can a CAI truly have a single motive though? It's a bunch of AI in a single place with different desires. I mean hell, you get a few AI on our side of theirs, they'll constantly bug the shit out of the salikai-loyal AI. I mean I'm all for being careful with an AI with multi-personality disorder, but I think when dealing with those, alliances don't mean jack shit. Some of it may even be suicidal and not give a shit about its continued existence.
Hell, it's more of a danger to the Salikai than it is to us right now it's so fucking erratic. Why does the salikai trust it? Just how many neumono stripdance for it on a daily basis? How many arkots does the salikai let it dress in frilly clothes? You have to appease a CAI to have it help you or let it boss you around to get it to do what you want it to do.
Oh my god this must be where Rokoa learns how to interact with CAI so well. I knew she was too good at manipulating us. We're gonna teach Polo how to treat CAI, and by proxy teach Rokoa. It's a manipulative paradox.
No. 60928 ID: 886a4d

possible stat allocation with delim x 2



Immunity 2
Damage Reduction 3
Damage Increase 4

T3 Body \ Armor \ Weapon 3


Damage Reduction 3
Damage Increase 4

T3 Body \ Armor 2
T3 Weapon 1



Damage Reduction 3
Damage Increase 4

T3 Knockback (heals and knocks the enemy away! At range at that)

T3 Body \ Armor 3
T3 Weapon 2


Gaurdsman (lets make him even more deadly! Defence? He don't need no stinking defence.)

T3 Weapon 20
Bounce 1


Scholar (doesn't really need an upgrade so ignore if we get low on cash)

Immunity 2
Damage Reduction 3
Damage Increase 4

Summon Ally 3

T3 Body 9
T3 Armor \ Weapon 8


Atlas \ Strongarm (these guys are movers, so to increase their potential movement I had an idea!)

Protector 2
Summon Ally 3
Create Light Trail 3

T3 Body \ Armor 11


Snuggler (again hes pretty much Dream Bound so ignore if we start to get low on CU)

Increase Damage 4
T3 Range 2
T3 Knockback

T3 Body \ Armor 8
T3 Weapon 7
No. 60929 ID: 1987d1

I have no objections to hose improvemtns. Although maybe we should see what Scholar's been up to? It's been a while. I wonder if he drive to learn drew him into working on one of our research projects? (With Engie, or Historian or something).

>Snuggler (again hes pretty much Dream Bound so ignore if we start to get low on CU)
We may not want to leave him dream bound.

After stage 8, the living members of our group are gonna be separated into dreamers, who are functionally dead (since they can't enter the waking world without getting insta killed- unless we have Glitcher fabricate false pass tokens or something) and runners, who can do stages and still visit the dream house (or covert to dreamers).

But if the sleep ban goes into effect, runners won't be able to go to sleep, and only able to communicate with dreamers via ghost talk.

So the important question: can a ghost merchant merch? If not, we need to make Snuggler a runner, otherwise we lose access to him as soon as the sleep ban kicks in.
No. 60930 ID: 886a4d

One of the questions I asked that never got answered was if Alison's merchant could be enabled. That would solve that paticular problem nicely.

One way to prevent dream sleep from being banned is to never abuse it beyond recruitment. What does the system care if we take out competition before the stage even begins? Thats one of the reasons why we'll only be using ghost talk on dead people.
No. 60937 ID: 886a4d

I just had a thought. Both the experiments being performed are supposed to be impossible. That is merging the System and the Contest CAI creation together as well as the upgrade process. What if the Glitcher, the Corrupter and the Saviour are injected to make sure that happens or to prevent it.

Corrupter. His ability is to make people like him. System and Contestent alike. Hes built specifically to get the two to cooperate. He is the merger element. Injected by the creators of this experiment.

Saviour. He is the anti-corrupter. My guess is hes to prevent the merger from suceeding by removing as many elements as possible into his sanctuary and killing the Corrupter. He most likely was injected by the CAI after the initial creation.

Glitcher. He was put in with the Corrupter to give him an edge as well as combat the Saviour and the system when it begins to fight back as it quickly begins to overpower the Corrupter in later stages. Hes to ensure the upgrade process works. He most likely was injected by the creator.
No. 60940 ID: f2c20c

Savior told us that after stage 8, we can have people come and go from the dream sanctuary without worry. So we should be fine.
No. 60941 ID: 6a1ec2


Savior said, if his ability worked, then it would have become apparant in the very first stage. What he's doing now is not related to the Corruptor but simply trying to make the most of what he considers an already hopeless situation.
No. 60947 ID: f2c20c

He said, the first cycle.

Also, his anti-corruption ability being broken would match with Alison's logs. "THE SAVIOR IS BROKEN", after all.
No. 60987 ID: 1987d1

It seems once again we're learning the hard lesson that every serious situation we go into escalates into something much worse than we were prepared for.

Interesting to note is we're being punished for trying the diplomatic route. We would have been better off to mash the button immediately, before reinforcements arrived. Although I suppose this is justified- our opponents know us now. They're using our predictable patterns of behavior against us.
No. 60988 ID: 1987d1

Okay, because I want to respond to this, and I'm sick of cluttering up the main thread with non-suggestions.

>Reinforcements show up!
>Right, we're going to throw this CAI switch, and kill you with our reinforcements. Sorry, Naga Bitches.

>Wait! I bet if we throw our CAI switch, the reinforcements won't be in the fight.

...do you see the flaw in this logic? Why are we even arguing about this.
No. 60989 ID: 04b86a

Yes. You're assuming it's a CAI switch, when based on things Savior and Glitcher have said it's a let-the-reinforcements-in switch. I think Glitcher at least would know if anyone other than Sevener has been instigating CAI fights since we've scanned a few different notes, now.

On another topic, I'm curious about how this is apparently the first time we've both absorbed Glitcher and got the dream home. Did all of the previous Alisons with the dream home just not absorb Glitcher when he committed suicide?
No. 60992 ID: 1987d1

Whatever. The best idea is still to push our button first whether or not theirs does the exact same thing. I really don't expect to not face the reinforcements when we do, but that doesn't change the calculus. It may give us an edge, but at worst we just break even.

As to your other point, Glitcher himself admitted he doesn't often share his ghost. Any loop where we manage to beat the Enforcer(s) without losing anyone to a rend, there'd be no need to absorb to investigate the rent ghost. And Glitcher commits suicide when he's handed a note- Alison isn't necessarily in the room every time.

I think it's more than just absorbing Glitcher and getting the dream house though. This is the first time we've done those things and managed to get through to him. A catatonic Glitcher isn't much use.
No. 60993 ID: f2c20c

I know one thing for sure. Even if we completely fail this cycle, the next feasible cycle will be better. We're covering new ground with Historian, uncovered Sevener's gambit, and found a foolproof method of relating that new information to Glitcher, along with urgings to not give up.
No. 60999 ID: 886a4d

One thing I want to point out to Sevener is that they haven't been using these fights to train verse the CAI. They've been using them to train to beat Alison. A normal contestent whose only real virtue is she makes friends and allies very, very easily.

I seriously doubt when the final battle comes about they will have access to Enforcers, or multiple Administrators. There will be exactly 1 Administrator, and their core crew. Which puts them precisely in the same spot the Contestents are at. Practically alone, verse the vastly more powerful CAI.
No. 61000 ID: 886a4d

Oooh another thought. Sevener has been using logs to defeat us. Why couldn't an Administrator use the same thing to become the Stage 11 Administrator consistently. That is the Administrator we want to talk to about allying.
No. 61007 ID: 1987d1

> Why couldn't an Administrator use logs to become the Stage 11 Administrator consistently.
I'm pretty sure that's already what Sevener is doing. The most capable admins are the ones who survive. Seems to me going above and beyond the call of duty to eliminate rogue players is gonna give Sevener an edge in selection, if it doesn't outright allow him or her to eliminate competition.
No. 61013 ID: f2c20c

I'd like to note here that Radmin was never able to use the log function. Why is that, I wonder? I thought it was due to it only being available to contestants that get blank cards and become Admins, but Sevener is able to do it. Unless Sevener used to be a contestant, something ODD is going on. Like, admins would not be created equally.

Perhaps all those who are able to create logs are those who are part of the original CAI?
No. 61014 ID: 886a4d

Glitcher said 6 and up can create logs. My guess is Radmin never gets a chance. He is ALWAYS in our bracket and we probably always raid it, or he dies during the merge. Pretty much the same reason Sevener gets so experianced verses us. She fights us, survives leaves a log hinting at how to do it. The next Sevener builds on that and so on.
No. 61026 ID: f2c20c

Ah, we could confirm that by asking Sixer if they ever had any logs, or if they managed to leave one before in his last stage.
No. 61029 ID: 1987d1

Glitcher's exact wording was
>anywhere between a stage 6 and 10 gives the ability to leave a log.
Not sure if that means if varies by person or by cycle though.

And we asked Sixer if he had any logs right after we showed him ours.
>"I've looked at the logs function, but it is empty."
No. 61041 ID: b6edd6

As far as I can tell, exploits (even large ones) only seem to be fixed when they are used to significant effect, and unlike errors the results of those exploits are not undone.
What if we were to apply the same principles to a Glitcher creation?
In particular, what if we were to create a novelty item that, when used, does something like resurrecting any number of people of our choice to any location in the area? Such items will obviously be watched for and deleted after we use one, but even a single initial use of an item like that can have enormous potential.
No. 61044 ID: f2c20c

If that's possible, then we might be able to get more troops in the real CAI fight... unless the nature of a CAI fight makes it impossible to bring new troops in at all.
No. 61081 ID: 1987d1

Guys, I have this terrible fear Polo's going to get her ass handed to her, wake up beat half to death in the brig, with the ship in deep space.

Then after some fun torture, we crash into the asteroid.
No. 61082 ID: e3f578

Well, if we do succeed at least at killing the queen, who cares! Well, I mean, we obviously do, but still that at least means we might actually get to meet Polo on the Asteroid and see what she's up to.

Though, to be honest, if this entire things stops after killing the Queen, and it doesn't end up being a dramatic, elongated fight, Lagotrope won't have much work to do now. I don't know how he decides the success of some suggestions, either by his own decision or die rolls/card draws/random number generator. And if he does use dice, does he use modifiers to what he thinks are good and bad suggestions? Because stupid shit can sometimes succeed with a number generator. (That's my favorite part of rolling dies though, the unexpected actually has a good chance to happen, just like in real life!)
No. 61083 ID: 1987d1

Actually, I think if we actually speed run the Queen before the others overwhelm us, Polo's odds of survival are worse. Calm minds might stop to think of taking her prisoners. But right after you witness an assassin blow up your Queen, right in front of you? They'll be out for blood. Grief, anger, and feelings of failure will all boil together. Unless Rokoa and Pylon are strong enough to emotional overpower what everyone else in the bubble is feeling, Polo will be dead.

I'm saying this looks like a losing battle, and I don't quite see a route to success.

As for how Lago decides things, I never got the impression it was dice (although I suppose it could be just well hidden). He seems to reward cleverness and lateral thinking more than lucky rolls (...not that there haven't been times we've been pretty lucky). The one rule you can reliably count on is that bad situations always escalate, fantastically.
No. 61277 ID: e3f578

I'm going to miss Polo guys
So much, we knew this day would come
We knew.
No. 61278 ID: 886a4d


I am ashamed but... Polo\Rokoa is my OTP

I've been wondering how Alison gets to the asteroid and now I'm now wondering if that doc that suicide bombed the bridge was the author of that CAI book the Historian is going through and he left the warhive a going away gift. I'm sure the Salikai wouldn't hesitate to try and improve CAI above all others to just have another edge, especially given how reliant they were on it.
No. 61280 ID: e3f578

Have we ever had any solid evidence that the CAI with Alison in it is either on the Asteroid, partnered with the salikai, or are the same ones?
I'd like direct citations if anyone can get those, or has it all been just guessing thanks to the fact that the whole CAI story is probably relevant somehow to the other two stories told in this universe, like how Polo's story and Hok's story are connected to each other through Rokoa? The only solid thing we can actually guess is that Alison's double-CAI is being made in a neumono-based environment thanks to all those artifacts being around.

I doubt the CAI we were is the same as the one with Alison in it, I mean, we've been rebooted once because of corruption, yeah, but we were designed to run a freaking storage vessel, dropped in by a dead company. Why waste such an experiment on a goddamn vessel(Of course, the bigger question should be why put a valuble CAI in as a secondary helper in a storage vessel anyway. Not to mention, in Alison's quest, we haven't run into anyone named Winston, Elephant Guy, Dirtbag, Abeo, Juroko, yet in any of the stages, thank god) And the CAI running the salikai's base is very active, not in a storage vessel, and it would not be efficient to have a CAI that is a participant of an intense experiment to run a large facility.

Wait... did I say at the start of my middle paragraph that we lost our memory because we rebooted in the storage vessel due to corruption... my god. We are going to be fucking fighting ourselves guys. And all these neumono books we keep running across? We're currently studying the neumono and their culture to keep Kappi and other rogues safe for when the hive diplomats come for them! And the books and documents we're reading are seeping into the experiment! I speculate the CAI eventually got an avatar of Ryan Reynolds and is using it, judging how everyone jumped on that joke when it came. The final boss fight is going to be Ryan Reynolds vs Alison.
No. 61282 ID: 4a328b
File 134864735055.png - (133.90KB , 360x3911 , AsteroidQuestIntermissionDeluxeReturnToTheAsteroid.png )

Let's speculate on how Asteroid Quest continues now that INTERMISSION is over
No. 61283 ID: 06ee8f

truly a masterpiece!
No. 61284 ID: bf54a8

No. 61291 ID: 62bab4

Amen to this. Polo's my favorite quest protagonist by far, and I'm going to miss her. When we end up back on the asteroid, our number one goal is to find a way to either get off the rock and find her, or to engineer her showing up there somehow.

Our secondary goal is to find out if Pilon is in the asteroid hive (and if, in fact, the asteroid hive is the future exiled warhive). Then to robo-glomp him while exclaiming how beautiful his ears and eyes are.

It does occur to me we have a way to use OoC Polo information on the asteroid when dealing with the asteroid-hive now. We can just claim to have read Polo's book.

Although, this is more what I expect to happen.

Asteroid Question Intermission II: Revenge on the Salikai
Asteroid Question Intermission III: Polo! In Space!

>Have we ever had any solid evidence that the CAI with Alison in it is either on the Asteroid, partnered with the salikai, or are the same ones?
We have no evidence that the asteroid-CAI and the salikai-CAI are the same, nor that either is the same CAI Alison and co are fighting, nor that either might be Alison and co after succeeding, becoming a CAI, and getting mindwiped.

The closest thing we have to evidence is we know how long Alison's simulation has been running in real time (3 days, times the number of loops). We know the asteroid-CAI has been around about that long (decades) and the Salikai CAI probably has as well (assuming it's older than Korli). That's a pretty lose circumstantial connection though.

...I love it that the rematch takes place while riding jumping sharks.
No. 61293 ID: 0c7cf8

I will as well. I really hope we see her again and I hope when we do she is like, full bad ass.

And then we have to fight her before we win her over.
No. 61326 ID: 22b106


>Fighting Polo
>Fighting Full Badass Polo who is a Veteran of the Salikai Hunt

It's like you WANT us to die!
No. 61327 ID: 62bab4

Full badass determinator Polo who always gets the mission done, and then some, exponentially.

Our only saving grace would be Polo has a habit of befriending people after shooting them.
No. 61328 ID: e3f578

And this was Polo's first mission. Goddamn.
Medal of fucking Honor earned.
No. 61331 ID: 6a1ec2

I want to see a thread with a Salikai as a protagonist.
No. 61352 ID: 0f60d7

So do I actually. Are they really sadistic monsters, or just on the bad end of an us-vs-them mentality?
No. 61355 ID: 62bab4

>Are they really sadistic monsters, or just on the bad end of an us-vs-them mentality?
Well, we have kind of a limited sample size. All the ones we met so far have been from the same family and/or group. They seem pretty nefarious, but that doesn't necessarily make the whole species dickbags.

Not really interested in playing one though. I'd much rather see something set in a peaceful hive- give us a chance to see more neumono culture, figure more out about how intra-hive relationships work.
No. 61360 ID: f2c20c

>"What?" Rakae goes off, obviously very displeased. "They're sadistic monsters. There's reasons why we've wanted them dead, and from what I know, the remaining ones want all of us dead. And you made a deal with one?! We should kill it."
>"I agree with Rakae." says Rikek. "From what I hear, they can't be trusted."

And as we saw in the quest, they are indeed quite sinister.
No. 61361 ID: e3f578

All surviving ones probably been raised to hate neumono as much as many of the salikai's experiments, hearing of stories of old salikai greatness being stomped out by the neumono. There's equal hate and prejudice from both sides, of course the neumono going to make exaggerations about the whole race, and salikai culture may have completely different set of morals or philosophy that allows for brutal experimentation or vengeance, which we cannot really judge without being a salikai much like how we can't judge neumono for despising rogues, which as mentioned by Rokoa, seems to be a built in reactionary response as well as an emotional one.

This is why I think that the only way to convince the hive from the main quest about letting us shelter rogues is with the help of anthropologists, psychologists, and sociologists that have expertise in understanding the neumono, and with the help of professional debaters/diplomats that have experience in changing alien minds into something more agreeable to either their personal culture or a goal that's generally against the alien's culture. Any real good diplomat would have to have these qualities to be successful in their field, so there might be a good chance one's on the asteroid. All sorts of people are on this asteroid.
No. 61367 ID: 62bab4

>we cannot really judge without being a salikai
That's silly. Playing a character isn't the only way to learn about them. You can learn plenty by just interacting with them (which, granted, we haven't done enough of).

Well, let's stop and actually consider what we do know about the Salikai.

They do have some pluses. So far as I can tell, they were honest in all their dealings with us. I don't believe Polo was ever explicitly lied to, and they honored every agreement we entered with them. At worst, they didn't tell us everything, and tried to push us into doing things we didn't want to.

Although, staying friendly aboard the warship and waiting to see how far we could push it before they did betray us seems like it would have been suicidally stupid. I suppose we could have sided with them completely, but that would have meant being complicit in getting the warhive killed, and possibly helping launch nukes again neumono we had no quarrel with.

For our part, I don't think Polo was terribly dishonest with them, either. I'd have to go back and check wording to be sure, but I think Polo only told them she intended to kill Rokoa (true at the time), she didn't promise to.

The whole facility setup was interesting. We met several Salikai, each in charge of their own zone (outer caverns, forest, lava, snow, etc) in addition to the Head. While the default security response was apparently to kill the intruders with swarms of arkots, each individual Salikai was more interested in breaking protocol to use the intruders to jockey for an advantage against his or her peers.

Looking at their track record: yes, they tried to kill us. We were intruders, though. Destructive, destructive intruders. Breeding an maintaining a menagerie of monsters isn't even that bad either- it's a valid means of self defense, if you can control them (arguably, perhaps more ethical than having a standard fighting force, as you're not putting your own people at risk. Of course, then we get into the thorny problem of juding the worth of 'lesser' beings, racism specism and slave-armies). I was even willing to overlook the 'pet' neumono (pinkie) hive, until we received confirmation they've abused and tortured them over the generations. The real kicker is the love-bugs though. Aggressive, offensive mind control tech is very nasty. Not to mention their willingness to nuke people who'd never done them any harm for the sake of a distraction. They also had a pretty callous disregard for their own troops (as we heard most blatantly in that last battle). Maybe the arkots are too stupid and well trained to care, but makes me wonder why the milkiks were loyal.

...although one thing that bothers me is we never found out how gender works for them. It still bugs me I don't know whether to use he or she for them. (Yet, somehow, I'm perfectly comfortable calling most Miklik's 'he' even though they're all hermaphrodites that spend most their time as neuters until they decide to grow a set of bits).

Actually, we're only really going off of Rokoa's, and the asteroid-hive's perception of rogues. Assuming the asteroid-hive is the exiled war hive, it makes sense they'd be fairly conservative and violent in their dealings with them. We never thought to find out how the more mellow hives treat them (although, we know from Rikek that off-world hives tend to be more tolerant, or at least, less violent).
No. 61369 ID: e3f578

>That's silly. Playing a character isn't the only way to learn about them. You can learn plenty by just interacting with them (which, granted, we haven't done enough of).

When I spoke of that, I was using academic logic. There's a term used in sociology called cultural relativism, which is the perspective that a foreign culture should not be judged by the standards of a home culture and that a behavior or way of thinking must be examined in its cultural context.

What I mean by that is that we cannot judge the salikai as a whole without being one, we can judge individuals of course, and choose to act against their interests. But we cannot judge the race, only the individuals and the actions they take. A lot of us can agree that sacrifice is pretty awful for example, and we can choose to intervene and save a sacrificial person from their fate should the occasion arise amidst a foreign culture, but our culture wouldn't be morally superior to the foreign culture, that can never be true. The person saving the sacrifice may be morally superior to the person that determined the sacrifice, but only if the sacrifice does not wish to die. I mean, hey, maybe the sacrifice wants to be sacrificed because that person believes it will help his people and maybe he gets a sweet afterlife for it. And the mind bugs, well, we can find that pretty sick and nasty when used against us, but who knows, if it's warfare between two salikai, it may just be par for the course and they're not all that horrible in each other's eyes (only if salikai soldiers are attacked by the mind bugs, they were not of course, but that may have been a unique case for this individual head salikai, seeing as how they are nearly extinct.) If, in fact, the salikai in general would only use mind bugs and similar practices against foreign races and not themselves (barring situations like the one in the quest where salikai have become very rare and they wish to preserve their race for future generations), only then they can truly be considered morally inferior.
No. 61370 ID: 62bab4

>moral / cultural relativism
Yeah, that's a fair argument. I suppose I was thinking somewhat less big picture about it. I'm less interested in determining moral inferiority / superiority as I would be in determining motivations, goals, what we can expect from them, etc.
No. 61371 ID: e3f578

In my opinion, moral inferiority/superiority has similar context to figuring our what we expect them to do, as whatever they end up doing will then be judged on a moral level, as they have in the past. And this will in turn reflect on even futher future expectations.
But with the small sample size, we know what we can expect from the head salikai, who may be the last, so who knows? (Besides Lagotrope)
No. 61425 ID: 733ae0

Salikai don't hate neumono because they have differing cultures or morals or they were taught that neumono suck or whatever, they hate them because the neumono have been killing off their species and the neumono are killing the salikai for the same reason homo sapiens drove neanderthals to extinction, they were competition.
99% of all conflicts have a geopolitical basis, morality is just something that's tacked on to help people feel better about being greedy.
No. 61429 ID: c6ec33

The entire planet needs an external (non-native) mediating body to set up a peaceful solution whereby all sapient species on the planet are given the chance to coexist. Either that, or giving them safe passage off the planet.

It's somewhat creepy to look at the situation and compare it to real-world parallels...
No. 62024 ID: 0dbe97

Alright, so Story Seeker only has so much in Chapter 4 to go, and I will be picking up UnSe again soonishly.

Which means I will probably make a new asteroid thread of some sort to run alongside UnSe, but with that said, Polo does have loose ends that can be worked with.

So the poll is this:

Asteroid Main Thread 2,
or Asteroid Intermission Epilogue Polo Sequel?
No. 62025 ID: e3f578

I figure the pattern should follow the seeming appearing standard
AST Main 1
AST First Polo Intermission
AST Main 2
AST Second Polo Intermission

So Main 2 would be good. I'm really curious how you've planned how to approach it since you said you're probably going the drop the AI perspective for a mental perspective of one of the characters, not to mention what's next for our little home away from home and its political situation amongst the asteroid.
No. 62027 ID: e3f578

I didn't put UnS in that pattern because there wasn't a vote for it, and assuming that Polo sequel would still be an option after Main 2 is done.
No. 62028 ID: 86c3a7

Oh em squee, we get a choice?!

I have to vote Polo quest. Hands down my favorite quest protagonist. Let's go back, kick some monster but, rescue some Pinkie hive people.

If we went back to the asteroid, I'd just have the CAI start digging through the entertainment files looking for her cartoon, anyways. Or see if a copy of Polo's final report is laying around the asteroid's information nets anywhere so we'd have an excuse to apply all that OOC information against Rokoa.

I kind of expect to lose this, but we'll see. I'll be appeased if Pilon shows up on the asteroid though. (C'mon, who else is gonna be the hive's diplomat? He's the sanest and most talk-y person they've got! Assuming, again, that the asteroid hive is the future exiled war hive).
No. 62029 ID: 86c3a7

I think it's a fairly safe assumption UnS will continue in parallel, and that we'll get back to whatever part of the asteroid-verse loses the vote, eventually.
No. 62032 ID: e3f578

>I'll be appeased if Pilon shows up on the asteroid though.
My pornography opportunity I offered to him
it beckons on the horizon of canonicity
No. 62040 ID: 6a1ec2

Asteroid Main Thread 2.
No. 62043 ID: f2c20c

I gotta go with the main Asteroid. It's been long enough!
No. 62044 ID: a5478c

Im gonna vote main thread. Metagamming aside, we've been too long off the asteroid (Assuming UnSe CAI isn't on it)
No. 62046 ID: 86c3a7

I'm losing, but I'm going to take comfort in the fact I was right. That there's called hedging your emotions, folks.

Maybe, just maybe, Pilon will be playable? )*0*(
No. 62076 ID: 4a328b

I vote Main 2 + Polo Cameo

She doesn't even have to show up just show us what her cartoon turned out like or something
No. 62091 ID: b3dd38

Asteroid main thread!!!!!
No. 62111 ID: 997ce7

Main 2 +Polo cameo sounds good

If there's a way to work her in without also having her being stuck on the asteroid that is
No. 62149 ID: 8b9215

Anything with Polo AND Rokoa in it :3c
No. 62172 ID: 58396a

Not sure if it was ever specified, but what's the general lifespan of a nuemono?

Rokoa doesn't look all that "aged", so I assume 30 years isn't too big a deal.
No. 62175 ID: f09b71

With medical science as it is, around 225-250. Prior to medical science, around 150-175.

For reference sake, humans, at the current level of medicine, are around 150.
No. 62198 ID: dcee26

We interrupt this discussion of Asteroid Quest to present a link relating to Unnatural Selection
No. 62210 ID: 0006f5

electron uncertainty is a tough one combined with Planck's extremely computationally demanding resolution are the only two things off from being almost certain existence is deterministic .. freaky stuff. also, isnt there the problem of the data operations being inherently larger than the computational allowance ? no, they could just be systematically reassembled or run at a excruciatingly slow clock speed couldnt it ..
No. 62215 ID: 796eb0

The mental image of Kappi singing "What Makes You Beautiful" to (for?) Rokoa...

No. 62220 ID: 26a7c1

>Huffington Post
No. 62227 ID: 2f4b71

That article is awful. Actual news: if the universe is a simulation, and if the simulation runs in a certain way (essentially cubic voxels of a very small size), then we have figured out that certain measurements would show artefacts of this. We know what measurements to take, but we have not taken them.
Basically, if the universe is one specific type of simulation, we know how to test for it.
No. 62233 ID: 6a1ec2


That small size being the Planck length, I assume?

On a (similarly unrelated to AQ but awesome) note, http://htwins.net/scale2/
No. 62571 ID: e3f578

You know I just thought of something
This CAI fight is entirely intellectually based and has nothing to do with stats. It must've lost at least one fight this way, even with the alien rulesets since Sevener has some way of understanding the rules, so others that made it to the end must have means too. It's had to have fought almost as many times as there are cycles, 3,119 times. There is no way the CAI has a 3,119-0 win-loss statistic with this kind of battle, no fucking way. The odds alone at least support one win in this intellectual level unless it cheats or winning will not prevent the reboot.

Okay, it probably has been fought less than that. People have tried merging with it and just being passive about it, but the number of times fought is probably highest and in the thousands, which in my opinion, makes its perfect score pretty unlikely, next to impossible, in this scenario. There's something passed the CAI.
No. 62572 ID: 44f93b

You're overlooking the fact that whenever the 3'champions' choose to fight the CAI (which our logs suggest does not always happen) it's a 3 verus however-many-hundreds-or-thousands-of-voices-make-up-the-CAI fight.

Even if the players had a perfect understand of the rules and the CAI knew none of them, it would have enough of a lead in bodies to win by attrition, every time. But that's not the case- the CAI has the information edge too.

Even if the CAI doesn't win in stage 1 by burring the contestants in unexpected explosions, it could win in the freeroam stage 2 with a simple bum rush. Or hell, it could go right for sudden death and declare "hey, I win!" before the contestants even know the rules.
No. 62573 ID: 04b86a

This section is intellectually based. The next section is freeroam, where some stats will matter at least some of the time.

There's also the little matter of the CAI knowing the entire ruleset by now and having had plenty of opportunities to develop strategies, including opening moves for this area. Combine that with being able to trigger a CAI Fight emulation only being discovered in the past few hundred cycles and they had the advantage long enough to get very skilled in the early areas, and recently have been retaining their advantage long enough to start developing complex strategies for the later ones.

Section one is basically exploding chess. I wouldn't be surprised if the CAI's figured out a "checkmate in x moves" opening strategy by now.
No. 62575 ID: 44f93b

>Section one is basically exploding chess. I wouldn't be surprised if the CAI's figured out a "checkmate in x moves" opening strategy by now.
...that's a good point. Section 1 could potentially be a solved game. With CAI level computation power and 23 years to work it out, if it's solvable, you can bet they went and solved it.
No. 62576 ID: f2c20c

It can't be a solved game. Player turns are simultaneous and you can't predict grey placement.
No. 62578 ID: e3f578

Hmm, I interpreted the CAI match on a one v. one basis, the CAI being an entire single bodied opponent with the mind of many. And the other two fight each other. then it's winner vs. winner.

Section 1
Everybody fights intellectually
Section 2
The winners of section one fight each other in freeroam (with stats? We've never seen the UI in our only freeroam fight, that was just a first attack quick kill as far as we know or that's at least what I remember. Boom, one shot, that corrupted was dead.)
Section 3+
Either unknown or impossible in the championship fight, so there's nothing past section 2
No. 62579 ID: 04b86a

Why would you assume the contestants would be enemies? It's a battle of sides, not a stage with one exit.

>Section 1
Yes, fighting intellectually evens things out a bit, but the CAI have the benefit of a lot of experience. Like I said, they'll have strategies to use that take advantage of how people will normally respond to attack pieces that go multiple moves ahead. Sure, we can do that too but they have them already made and that gives them an edge.

>Section 2
Yeah, it's true that how someone is damaged seems to matter a bit more than how much damage someone deals. Maybe. Gambler said that getting his foot cut off cost him 10 hp, and keep in mind that Alison had increase damage 4 and used double offense, so even if the Corrupted had damage reduction 2 he still would have died under normal rules.

Stats matter in other ways, though. Having a higher body stat makes you physically stronger and better able to keep functioning despite damage. Back in stage 5 someone lost a foot and had to crawl to get around, but when Gambler lost his he was capable of hopping around just fine, and said it didn't hurt as much as it should have. You also get weapon forms to switch between with higher weapon ranks making them more effective, and things like double jump, swap position, teleport, summon allies and float to help you move around. And those weapon forms can be pretty unconventional. We could get someone to make a flaming oil slick weapon form and another person that can unleash a wave of water to engulf them in a fireball for even more damage.

So, yeah, stats play a huge role in freeroam.
No. 62581 ID: e3f578

I just figured it that way for some reason. Like this is a championship and there can only be ONE or something. And in regular CAI production, all the voices are the ghosts of the absorbed with the different winner having an unknown effect on the CAI, potentially it's physical hacking power and ability set because it's the only body left. Like each ability and boon translates differently into the real world. Attack/Weapon is hacking, Health and armor is defense against hacking, resurrection might have to do with recovering lost assets in the CAI or fixing corrupted sectors that are different in nature than the Corrupter and his corruption (such as how our original incarnation in the main thread, I doubt my joke theory is in any form correct, about how we're the CAI in UnS and the final boss will be a Ryan Reynolds avatared CAI ), etc.
No. 62582 ID: 44f93b

From what we know, the CAI is made up a multitude of AIs- basically the same as Alison and co. The ones in the CAI have just been mindwiped. Logically, within the virtual space we've been playing unnatural selection in, I'd expect each individual CAI voice to be able to manifest individually.

>champions fighting each other
No. It was explicitly stated that in CAI battles you can't change sides, and that the winning side comes out with everybody alive. If the three have to fight, there would need to be a stage or something after the CAI.
No. 62592 ID: e3f578

Oh I see, I must have missed that factoid somewhere. Then that raises the question of how the three champions matter in the creation of a normal CAI, are they in fact all the voices? What happens to the losers, are they inside the three survivor's minds at the end? Or are the losers the voices and the winners something else?
What is the CAI's physical manifestation in this simulation? Is it all the dreamstate forms of the losers in combination with the three champions, making an army vs. the three champions, or is it just the three champions, technically making it an even fight between the two sides with one side of three (which is the CAI) vs the other side of three (which is the pre-CAI simulation contestants that hopefully includes Alison)?

>If the three have to fight, there would need to be a stage or something after the CAI.
This was my initial question and first concern, there's something after the CAI fight with the addition that there is finally something after the final champion walks out of whatever stage or fight is after the CAI. This was under the presumption that it wasn't champion side vs CAI side and that there are no sides at all, and instead was a technical free for all between the champions and CAI, champion vs. champion vs. champion vs. CAI with the CAI version of the battle going all tournament bracket style.
Going like this
Section one Champion vs. CAI (who is a singular manifestation in a single body with a lot of ghosts/advisers) Champion Vs. Champion
Section two Sec1 Winner vs. Other Sec1 Winner
This would then mean that only one walks out alive.
No. 62597 ID: 44f93b

>I must have missed that factoid somewhere.
I think it's either in Glitcher's or Savior's infodumps somewhere.

>Then that raises the question of how the three champions matter in the creation of a normal CAI, are they in fact all the voices?
It's possible, in the creation of a normal CAI, that more than three people make it to the end. Either that, or the process gets run a few times, until they collect enough winners to mindwipe, brainwash, and build a CAI from.

>What is the CAI's physical manifestation in this simulation?
I'm assuming the CAI operates mostly outside our virtual universe, and only needs to assume virtual bodies(s) when interacting with the contestants in the final fight. At which point the individual minds of the CAI probably look much the same as AI native to the simulation.
No. 62625 ID: f2c20c

I wonder if this is how Pilon went rogue...
No. 62626 ID: f2c20c

Fuck, the embed didn't work.
No. 62627 ID: e3f578

If that was true then the Pilon just pretty much took their hardest funders with him.
Like, the nutrigrain guy literally took the company's manager and their major investor with him. That would be like if Pilon felt so great he brought the Queen with him and stole all the hives money from the vault.

Then the current Queen for that Hive stepped in, that makes two Queen changes.
Yeah I'm fine with that, just combine all three of those people Nutrigrain guy brought with him into one and call that the Queen. Pilon just went up and started making babies with her right after robbing his entire Hive blind.
No. 62656 ID: e3f578

I liked Agnes at first but now I'm kinda hating her.
I mean, well, threatening with weapons is funny, even if it's not a joke. But extortion is serious business. Tin's fees when we first met her were completely reasonable. And you know, Tin could fine us with fees I could respect, at least call them something. This whole entrance fee is bullshit though and too opportunistic to sit right. Fucking dress it up first at least Agnes like Tin did, goddamn.

Hok didn't even really need to go and risk his life transporting the replica, we could have just left it behind. He fucking earned that shit. We were lucky we managed to talk down Jells into joining, otherwise Hok would have been dead for merely a chance for 10k.
No. 62803 ID: 1e7d43
File 135156324802.png - (122.48KB , 600x600 , Yani.png )

"What is your name?"
No. 62848 ID: bdb3f8

I get it!
No. 62949 ID: f2c20c

Hey guys, I thought of a fantastic opening strategy for the CAI fight.

We attack the corners with same-color combinations in an attempt to cut the enemy's playing field in half. Then we do it again from the other direction. After that, the enemy is limited to a very small triangular playing area where we can set down explosions easily.

This is how Sevener opened up, isn't it?
No. 63006 ID: e17663

Don't say that yet! At this point it'll only give Lagotrope ideas.
No. 63014 ID: 3338b5

Something I've noticed:

Since we've shifted away from Polo, and instead started riding around with Kappi, and recently Karri (maybe? I can't tell yet if we're actually controlling her, or doing a more third person thing) empathic descriptions have noticeably decreased. Polo kept us appraised of what the neumono around her were feeling almost continually- you expected it as part of the conversation. Kappi brings it up much more rarely, and it didn't come up between Karri and Pilon at all.

Interesting that the more loner personality, "emotional cripple" would be more in touch with those around her, huh?

I'm not sure if this is due to a difference in personalities (say, as a rogue, Kappi's much less in tune with those around him, and used to having nothing good to pay attention to), or the shift in narrative style (we were pretty closely integrated with Polo- to the point where we defined parts of her personality, whereas the interactions with Kappi have so far been more surface level), or something else though.
No. 63025 ID: beeca1

Speaking of which, if we were so deeply ingrained as to be like parts of her personality, I wonder how our departure affected her.
No. 63027 ID: 3338b5

I think she'll be fine. We helped shape her, but she'll still be that person without our influence. (For instance- the video message to Rokoa. Exactly the kind of sneaky thing we might have tried, not to mention it shows her quirky sense of humor is intact).

She may have less irrationally disturbing trains of thought she has to fight off though.
No. 63194 ID: c59939

Calling it now, Karri is Rokoa's kid. As you can see here, Lago totes confirmed it too.

[02:36] <Ficus> Lago, is Karri Rokoa's kid?
[02:36] <Lagotrope> I will neither confirm nor deny
[02:36] <Ficus> I will pretend you said yes
[02:36] <Lagotrope> I will neither acknowledge or ignore that
No. 63195 ID: c1799b

Well I think I have a good idea as to who Karri's mom is its Rokoa.
No. 63201 ID: 70c0f2

Well, it has been the best explanation as to why she'd want to beat the shit out of Rokoa, and it would explain the anger, irritability, how she ended up as one of tougher of the bunch, and it would explain why Pilon and the rest of them are reluctant to talk about it.

Given Rokoa's own past though (her won childhood, and after the loss of her other children) it kind of doesn't make sense that she'd leave the kid with Pilon, or that she'd still apparently think well of him. (Unless she just accepted that there was no way a child half her and half rogue was going to fit into a hive she already had trouble fitting into?).

Honestly though, as much sense as it makes, I'm somewhat unhappy with this theory. Because it means that at some point Rokoa and Pilon slept together. And that kind of skeeves me out, for whatever reason.

>Your fur and ears... you definitely are closer to your mother's
This actually throws the biggest wrench into it, though. Rokoa's ears round and narrow at the end- Karri's are flatter and broader when they terminate. And Pilon and Rokoa's fur was pretty close in coloration- whereas Karri is a lot light than either of them.

Although Karri does have a similar facial profile.
No. 63215 ID: b5fcb9

At the end of the first thread, Rokoa told Kappi that she had fallen in love with three others, all of them rogues. Two of them were dead, but she said nothing of the third. If Rokoa found Pilon on the asteroid, he's probably that third rogue.
There's nothing about Karri's appearance that says she isn't Rokoa's kid. Both Pilon and Rokoa have big ears and grey fur. If Karri wore a rigor mortis grin all the time, it'd be a dead giveaway.
When Pilon said Karri wanted to fight Rokoa to prove her strength, Karri was still within earshot. He probably didn't want to set her off by saying that Rokoa was her mother. In fact, Karri's reaction to Rokoa seems like that of a hive member to a rogue. Like her family is a hive and she's resentful that Rokoa left them.
No. 63231 ID: e3f578

Karri's mom is Pilon's lady clone.
She technically has no mother. It's a lady Pilon. She has two daddies, or really well one since it's a clone. And some genes got differentiated because of hybrid genetics going wonky.

Clones aren't incestual guys. But some think it is, which is why it's a touchy subject. Obviously.
No. 63235 ID: f2c20c

Rokoa knew Pilon before the asteroid, and they were not in love. They probably had Karri on a whim.

This brings up an interesting point. What happens when a rogue and a hivemember have a kid? Is it impossible for them to grow up as a member of the hive? How does that sort of hive connection develop anyway? I know Rokoa got stolen then recovered... would she have been a better 'fit' if she hadn't been stolen in the first place?
No. 63244 ID: e3f578

For a serious post of mine for once, I don't think Rokoa is the Mom simply because of her past experience with her kid and how touchy a subject it's always been for her, even years ago when she met and conversed with Polo.

Since having a child is within complete control of the female, even a fling with Pilon wouldn't have produced a child, she would have to want one. And bear the fact she'd be carrying his child, someone she didn't love. I mean, maybe Pilon just likes having a bunch of sex for procreation because that's his sick fetish and with how many he's had, and mostly are probably all from different mothers, he obviously doesn't think love's a big issue for sex. He's just all about the baby making. Rokoa has to have a form of interest in the person to have sex from what we can tell, and even if she does have plenty of absolutely meaningless flings, it is obviously not for procreation.
No. 63245 ID: 70c0f2

I agree with the assessment on Rokoa, but I think you're being a little rough on Pilon. He's obviously just an irresistible charming stud. Who then goes out of his way to take care of the children his partners chose to have.
No. 63263 ID: e3f578

I never said he wasn't a cool individual who is an irresistible stud or a good father. It's just that he has a sick fetish is all.
No. 63265 ID: 70c0f2

It doesn't even have to be his obsession, though.

The way neumono biology works, a short term fling could result in the female producing children for years after, if she so wanted. They can store up and save every single sperm(ball), after all, and deploy them at will.

Pilon's problem isn't that he's obsessed with reproduction- it's that he's so awesome that anyone he's ever with can't stop having his babies afterwards. It's just an effect he has on people!

...it's like he's some crazy memetic vector for Every Sperm is Sacred in addition to being a hunk.
No. 63299 ID: e3f578

I just figured out a new Rokoa mission if we get out of this alive.
Acquire the heads of the Zozu family heads. Jolly Cooperation with Karri optional, it'll be like old times with Polo. Two people that have a desire to kill each other working together for a greater justice.
No. 63300 ID: 70c0f2

Hey, you killed our people and fucked up our cursed godsdamned escort mission even further. So, to make things even, we've sent you a Rokoa-gram. Enjoy!
No. 63327 ID: e3f578

Is anyone weirded out that the bitch we just beheaded because we thought she's a psycho bitch that supported the killing of a bunch escorts is actually slightly alright here before this shit got started?
She can eye and identify a creep like Reddude and be offended by him like an actual normal person, but will just go straight into just slaughtering a whole bunch of escorts for no real practical reason, it isn't even to send a message or to just to get the gold, they're going for 100% casualties on what is just hired guns and she supported it.

I mean, yeah, Jessica has only had a few lines in this "just before Zozu went foam-mouthed" intermission that indicate some normalcy but doesn't really fill out her character, but I get this feelign that this just ain't right. Zozu even mostly respects family (some of the time), I can see them as professionals that aren't particularly pointlessly cruel. Just what's the deal? Why so much money per head for some dumb mercs?
No. 63329 ID: 70c0f2

People are still people, even if they're people who oppose you, or trying to kill you. More often than not, people you fight are just going to be on a different side, or have different priorities, perspective, or loyalties. You don't get the nice moral justification of fighting entire armies of irredeemable sadistic rapist crazies all the time. Even if your enemy employes some of them, you can't count on the enemy being a complete monster either.

Really, that's the whole reason I advocated so strongly for having Polo go out of her way to save the war hive from the war they started. They were the enemy- but they were still people. And heck, and even earlier, we were discussing the relative moral position of the Salikai- how from their position their actions could be justified. So no. I'm not surprised to see the girl we killed wasn't a complete monster.

Generally, my position in most quests is to advocate non-lethal take-downs when possible. Most people really don't deserve to die. There are of course exceptions- people we explicitly want dead, or who we can't afford to be merciful to.

In this particular case- I personally didn't advocate killing Jessica because I thought she was some irredeemable psycho bitch doing something reprehensible. It was a pragmatic, tactical battlefield decision- she was the enemy, she wasn't willing to give quarter, she didn't have the authority to negotiate, she wasn't useful as a hostage, she was shouting defiance in our face, and we were in no position to take prisoners. So we had to kill her, and get on with the business of securing our position and staying alive in the middle of an attack.

Consider her position: she worked for an unforgiving criminal gang. The plan was to seize the base and the cargo when it arrived, and to kill the people transporting their stolen goods. She had her orders, and every reason to want our guys dead, and think it was reasonable to kill us. She wasn't in a position to negotiate or let us go, and she had little to no incentive to do so and defy orders.

The thing that really wasn't smart was her response to our threat- instead of trying to stay alive, she basically signed her own death warrant (it's not like telling us they were gonna kill us all no matter what would get us to surrender or spare her or anything. In fact, if anything, it gave her further reason to kill her). My best guess is she thought she was good as dead already, so she might as well use her last words to tell us to go fuck ourselves.

>Why so much money per head for some dumb mercs?
I have two guesses. (1) It gets rid of us without risking their own people, and it shows them who the most dangerous and competent people are in the base they just conquered. (2) The gold itself isn't so important as the principle of the thing. They want to make a point that people can't steal from them. If they don't, their rep suffers, and it hurts them more in the long term.
No. 63330 ID: f2c20c

I think you've got the right perspective.
No. 63331 ID: e3f578

Yeah, I guess my big problem is that Zozu is paying that much.
We didn't steal anything, hell, Piles didn't either (probably). We're just transporting it.
I just never saw it as reasonable to kill us since we're all third parties in the crime. And the way this asteroid is, it has to be well known that third parties take this kind of shit up all the time without asking much questions, because that's really the only line of work. If they attack a third party in self defense or only as much as necessary, then it's completely reasonable to draw third party causalities. This is not the case of either, there was no negotiation with the third party like Supernova did. I feel like this is not considered good politics in the criminal underground. Now, if Zozu has a reputation for being really bad at the criminal politics, then I'd understand completely. But there's professionalism in their organization, which they would have to have to survive on this rock in order to not have everyone gang up on them because they don't act professional in the political environment. Criminals generally follow code to minimize casualties and avoid mob wars. You're supposed to backstab each other, quickly, efficiently and quietly if you want to get shit done in the criminal political setting. This is not any of those three things. Because these are third party contractors. Your supposed to send the message to the first party that did the crime by doing horrible things to them, not the third party contractors. That's better business.
No. 63333 ID: 70c0f2

I agree that what you're describing would be the more profession and pragmatic way to operate, and really how we would do things in their position. It is better business.

We don't really know Zozu well enough to know why they don't operate that way though. Possible guess: the sting operation could be the result of the new manager, who from his orders and underlings seems a lot more ruthless and less professional than the Zozu norm.

It could also be they didn't know about the chain of custody (we did pose as the sellers, not the escort), or that they didn't care. While going easy on third parties does make sense, they could have been using a more scorched earth intimidation based approach: anyone who touches our stuff, ever, dies. First parties, third parties, whatever. It's a good way to make sure no one steals from them, and that no one wants to help anyone who does.

As for the sheer ridiculous value of the bounty they put on us? I'm guessing it's that big because they don't plan to pay out. They'll let people kill themselves coming after us, or if they succeed, they execute the potentially dangerous individual instead of paying them.
No. 63336 ID: e3f578

I hope that if Itchy lives long enough for this story to run parallel to the present we can get the chance to get him to make commentary over this to his manager.

> It's a good way to make sure no one steals from them, and that no one wants to help anyone who does.
No, it's a goddamn good way to make enemies. Remember if we make it back alive our intentions is to send goddamn Rokoa after them. They don't know that, but they will rue the day it happens. And then they'll know who not to fuck with. It'll be us that sends the message, not them.
No. 63337 ID: 70c0f2

Eh, it's kind of like a bluff. It works best if no one calls it. If someone does, yeah, it makes you enemies, or potentially escalates into a mutually assured destruction scenario. It's hardly foolproof- but it would work so long as you're tough enough that no one wants to bother fucking with you.

The problem here was we went in ignorant- there was no chance for us to be scared off by the Zozu connection. And now both sides are locked into a fight.
No. 63348 ID: 70c0f2

You, know, I just a weird thought. Red is kind of like a bizarro Polo.

Fiercely determined short neumono, same ear style, red instead of blue, gender swapped, kick ass unstoppable with hand to hand instead of guns, and aggressively (negatively) personable instead of a kind emotional cripple. And people are creeped out by the vibes they do pick off him- not the ones he's not. He's like her evil opposite.
No. 63497 ID: e3f578

Anyone got a plan for when we deal with Karri as Itcher?

I think it might be possible to simply have them hand over the gold and that's it? We kill, incapacitate, or form a deal with the spade guy's escort, keep him alive, ask Karri simply for the gold free of charge and they can sell the rest of his shit and we go easy peasy.
If these are all third party contractors, this is possible. If any of the escorts or the spademan are first party, this is obviously impossible and we'll have to fight Karri for the gold.

We can also just get rid of spade guy and escort and try and steal the gold back. Or just get all of the spade guys zeny, give it to Karri and get all the gold without spending a single cent along with a bunch of other materials.
No. 63498 ID: 70c0f2

I don't think Karri's team will be the problem. We already established characterization that her motivation here is just to get the money and go home, and to keep her people safe. Even if the circumstances change, that's still going to be the way she thinks.

The bigger problem, I think, is Maklata is gonna screw it up. Most the muscle is gonna be his guys- including Malsen. Maklata is likely going to have already killed the original buyers (who he would have picked out to act as fall guys anyways). That or he'll order us to kill and replace them. He'll also likely order us to kill the thieves (Pile's group). Pile's incompetence suddenly makes sense- Maklata picked idiots to get killed for the job. They were never working for whiskers, and they never knew.

The wrench in the system is Maklata wasn't expecting his fall guys to hire a bunch of competent added muscle (Karri's group). Or, he was, and that's how he's planning to get Itcher's group killed, and why he has backup ready to storm the base and finish the job.

I'm not sure how the hell we can keep both sides happy. How do we survive defying orders? How do we pull off defying orders when our escort and backup is going to be loyal to the person we're disobeying? We can try to complete the deal with Karri honestly, but that is gonna be tough with everyone else in the room itching for the order to fire. Itcher's team is gonna be left with little choice but to join in or surrender when the shooting starts.

Unless we can find a way to stop things before the shooting starts. Alter the circumstances of the trade off somehow- so it's not a bar full of goons waiting to get fight and get killed.

Hopeful aside- we pull this off and Wendel might not die!
No. 63503 ID: 70c0f2

Looks like I was wrong about Whiskers not being involved. He just ganked Maklata's stolen gold.

Looks like we still have a few in-universe days before we make it to that bar (assuming the timeline hasn't changed away from that outcome, yet).
No. 63510 ID: 70c0f2
File 135277440052.png - (181.08KB , 1200x1135 , convoy route.png )

Okay, I took the liberty of copy-pasting the route we know Karri's convey followed / will follow (assuming the future has not changed) from the second hand job office to the clusterfuck.

It's possible the gold could reach Piles by way of sector 7 (8, 7, 12, 5) but if the cargo was headed for sector 11 in the first place, why detour up to 5 and drop it off with those idiots? I suppose Whiskers did it on purpose as part of the test? Or Piles is already with the gold and any idiotic decisions can be blamed on him.

The most direct route for the gold to get to Piles would be to pass through sectors 4 or 6.

Regrettably, we no longer no if the timeline has been changed or not, and even if it hasn't, our foreknowledge doesn't tell us where the gold is now.
No. 63513 ID: f2c20c

I bet the gold gets stolen a third time. Right now it's in the hands of Zozu defectors, then Whiskers tracks it down and yoinks it to add to the shipment that Piles is moving. Remember, the shipment ALSO had 1.2 million zeny and the Black Supernova radio in it. Those two items are not yet included in the package.
No. 63515 ID: 70c0f2

...good call. I'm pretty sure the latest update just proved you right.
No. 63517 ID: e3f578

I take that this is a few days before now, which means Pilon isn't even really a part of our group now, hell, I think Rokoa might actually be tearing apart Iron Cove right about now. This thread probably started about the same time Hok was locked up in the underwater freighter.

It's been, what, a week since this whole quest (not just thread 3, thread one) started?
No. 63535 ID: 70c0f2

Okay, you remember that idea I had about Itcher and friends defecting to the trade hub if we got the chance? Forget that plan. The new plan, once we survive this gold business, is to leave Zozu and find Alia/Whiskers.

I mean, think about it. Those two are perfect for each other. It's not like thief and tax collector are even that different roles- its just implemented slightly differently. They certainly have chemistry, and a similar professional attitude and sense of morality. And just imagine how much more awesome the heists would be if you pair her planning, knowledge and resources with Itcher's paranoia. Fuck, bring Jess a along too. She's his bud, and that CAI would probably appreciate a meatspace hacker to hang out with.

...next time we get back to Tin's group through, I'm definitely going to have the trade-hub CAI start discretely checking people for nanobands during hugs.
No. 63546 ID: f2c20c

How do you even check for nanobands? Itcher got strip searched before meeting Maklata and they didn't find it.
No. 63547 ID: 5d98c3
File 135285212399.jpg - (29.16KB , 160x160 , Carmen Sandiego has stolen this thread.jpg )

I have only one question:

Why is Carmen Sandiego an alien?
No. 63548 ID: 70c0f2

I have no idea. Build some kind of scanners into the CAI hugging arms? There must be some kind of electrical activity or emissions that we might be able to detect with good enough equipment and enough processing power.

Zozu's men also probably didn't know this kind of tech existed. They weren't looking for it. Now that we do, we can start looking into countermeasures for it. (Maybe scan the epidermis for the bioarmor-like bond points? She might have shielded the devices, but the organic or neurological response to bonding might be harder to cover up).
No. 63550 ID: c4e5c2

I didn't realize it until I decided that she could use a snazzy hat to go with that coat, then once I remembered the hat was red as well, I simply went 'fuck'.

I forget what the word/phrase is to describe when someone thinks they're creating something new, when in fact they've seen it already somewhere else and just don't realize or remember it. Whatever that is, it's most likely what happened here, at least until I put that hat on her. Since I noticed it when I did, I could've stopped it and changed Whiskers' outfit if I really wanted to. I didn't really want to, so I let Carmen Sandiego Except An Alien make a door in the tank.
No. 63551 ID: 425b9d

hey, she's gotta have style, & it is right there
No. 63564 ID: 70c0f2

>If he were into me, though, it wouldn't be too hard to requite his feelings.
Nooo, Jessica, what have you done?! Everything always goes to hell when we have multiple romance options.
No. 63572 ID: cef479


Subconsiously? (I probably butchered that word but I think it's the right one)

The important question now is what landmark will she steal next?
No. 63574 ID: c4e5c2

Nah, it was a pretty specialized word that I wish I could remember since it's pretty hard to explain normally. And similarly, is particularly tough to google.
No. 63578 ID: 04b86a

Cryptomnesia, maybe? That's what comes up when googling "subconscious plagiarism", anyway.
No. 63580 ID: c4e5c2

Yes, that's it exactly, thank you.

I didn't think to google 'subconscious plagiarism'
No. 63583 ID: f2c20c

Personally I support chasing Whisker.
No. 63584 ID: d43682


Why not Both?

I personally think that Itcher is man enough to handle both of them.

And the kicker is that Whisker, being a fucking loon, would probably see it as adventurous if she could turn Itcher into a thief like her during the process.
No. 63607 ID: 70c0f2

Jebus, is Jess cursed or what? Everything we do seems to bite her in the ass.

First, we get her killed. Then, we blueball and bio-armor a psychopath rapist who decides to come after her. And then the loyalty and trust we earn protecting her just gets her to mutilate herself on our behalf, and then endure hours and hours of torture.
No. 63671 ID: 425b9d

she defently needs better protection then us D:
No. 63673 ID: 70c0f2

I was more thinking
>she definitely needs better protection then from us D:

Okay, so I've been entertaining the theory that the reason father Zozu has been pulling a Steinbrenner and hasn't let the suggesters see his face is he's going to turn out to be one of the Salikai from the spire complex that somehow escaped/survived the ultra-hive's assault and made his way to the asteroid later.

There's some flimsy support for this. His researchers have developed bio-armor that artificially duplicates Polo's unique flavor of jamming (well, more shutting up than jamming). Access to the spire's research on empathy manipulation (the hallucinogens, love bugs) could have helped make that happen, as would a familiarity with Polo (or even data on her. Maybe one reason they let Polo and co operate with the freedom she did in the forest zone for a while was because they were studying her. If there were sensors hidden in the walls of that cave...). Of course, knowledge of Polo isn't special in of itself; by current day on the asteroid, the assault would have happened 30+ years ago, it's hardly classified knowledge if they're making movies about it, and it makes sense off world Salikai would pay attention to big news about their peers. What is more significant is that he seems to respect her. As unlikely as it is that any of the spire salikai could let go of their hatred and lust for revenge, a personal encounter with Polo could have been transformative- especially if she again decides she won't be part of a genocide.
No. 63689 ID: f2c20c

The only Salikai from the Asteroid whose face we've seen is dead.
No. 63691 ID: 70c0f2

You mean from the spire, not the asteroid, I believe.

But yeah, that's why it occurred to me. The head Salikai and his or her remaining children have all kept themselves hidden from us too.
No. 63714 ID: f2c20c

Fuck. Yes, the spire is what I meant.

Considering the two examples of Salikai we've seen the whole of, I wonder how their species varies in appearance? Do they have different markings, or is it just different shades of green? Both fully-visible Salikai have been diamondbacks, but they were slightly different shades of green.
No. 63715 ID: d43682


Probably small variations in color and pattern, but Father Zozu is most likely that color because he is an old bastard by their standards.

Imagine once Three-Stripes got suitably old, I imagine that his colors would darken considerably.
No. 63737 ID: 997ce7

Or he's black. Well, the racial analogue, anyway.
No. 63742 ID: cef479


Oh geeze. Now you've got me wondering if they ever made Salikaisploitation films.
No. 63768 ID: ec06d0

Come on now, sociopathic puppet masters who use other races to do all their fighting for them.
Thats not a black stereotype.
No. 63774 ID: beeca1

So? I'm basing it on his skin color being darker, not any stereotypes.
No. 63878 ID: beeca1

Well, I wasn't actually planning to do this but I said I would so here I go. Itcher/Jessica slashfic. In spoilers, but if anyone objects to that I can repost it without spoilers. If this is not where this should go, please tell me.

New drinking game: For every OOC moment or mistake in weird alien anatomy I make, take a shot of <favored liquor>. Highest medical bill is the winner.

Whiskers found she was already getting bored with Itcher. She felt a little bad whenever she started thinking about her next adventure in the middle of a conversation with him and caught herself, but she would just have to move on. It was a bit cruel, but Itcher didn't seem like the type to get too attached. He'd accept that it had just been a quick fling and move on. At least, she hoped so. She hoped that neither of them would be too disturbed by the scheme she'd come up with to deal with it, either.

Whiskers walked into What Does This Rag Smell Like to You?, the premier over-the-counter rape-drug store and asked Leering Dan for a bottle of Handwavium, the miracle neurotransmitter/nanobot slurry that did whatever the fuck you wanted it to do or twice your money back! It was prohibitively expensive, but if she pulled this off, the nanoband's video would be more than worth it.

Whiskers dialed Itcher's nanoband on her custom-fitted radio, ingenuously disguised as a rotary phone, and said "Hey, Itcher. You and Jessica want to go drinking with me? The last bar in the little fetch quest I set up for you two. I was... impressed... with how well you did. My wallet will regret this, but drinks on me." in as light a tone as she could manage. Mentally, she added holy fuck that thing with the shiny table was hilarious, I might really have to hire them.

Itcher and Jessica amazingly accepted free booze and showed up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Whiskers saw another neumono trip over Jessica's tail on his way to try and chat her up and giggled to herself. She insisted on pouring the drinks herself, telling them about this great cocktail she learned from a cockatiel. She managed to keep them from noticing the Handwavium she slipped into their drinks by telling them that, no, it wasn't really a cockatiel, but the Heef she'd gotten the recipe from really did look like a cockatiel, crest and all. He claimed it was his lucky charm for poker, and was proven wrong when Whiskers won the shirt off his back and the recipe besides.

Some time later, when they were well and truly sloshed, she walked off and said, "Well, that's it, then. My sincerest apologies, but you two really do make a cute couple! No, don't worry about what I said, it'll make sense in the morning."

Itcher wasn't sure what had just happened, other than lots of booze, but when Jessica suggested that they call it a night and go to bed, he accepted. When they arrived and they'd gotten in bed, Itcher realized that he really was extremely aroused, and had just enough time to wonder too late about what Whiskers had done to their drinks before the two began their passionate attempts at lovemaking.

Itcher pushed himself into Jessica's soft flesh and only drew back in surprise when he heard Jessica laugh, "Haha, what? Why are you trying to use my ear as a cocksleeve?" The next time, he managed to enter an orifice that clenched as he entered. Shit, had he just tried to fuck her ass? Was Jessica going to try to bite his dick off? But she wasn't complaining, and besides, neumono vaginas did that weird squeezing vacuum thing, right?

Itcher decided to stop thinking about it and start thrusting, and Jessica seemed to enjoy it, so all's well that ends well, right?

The next morning, Jessica woke up and managed to notice three things through the hangover: her ass was sore, Itcher was still improbably erect, and her hand was wrapped around Itcher's dick.

The phrase What the fuck? appeared in Jessica's blurry mind, and she realized that Itcher was now awake and had indeed just said "What the fuck?"

Jessica tried to remember what had happened. Whiskers and Itcher had... broken up? Whiskers had said she was fine with the two of them hooking up, and apparently Itcher had been too, considering their position. Jessica began to grin and realized that she was fine with it too. More than fine, in fact. She felt great. So she decided to kiss Itcher and maybe ask if he was up for round two, and managed to get herself on top of Itcher. The kiss was less successful, because she tried to proposition Itcher at the same time and it came out as "Mm, mmf mmm mfmm?"

Happily, Itcher managed to put "raging erection" and "naked girl on top of me" together, and he actually managed to achieve vaginal on the first try.


So this is the first time I've ever written an actual slashfic. I hope it's not too narmy, and I'd appreciate criticism.
No. 63948 ID: e3f578

We couldn't do anything to save Wendel
No. 63959 ID: 70c0f2

We tried everything we could to stop the clusterfuck from happening, but it was largely out of our hands. We weren't allowed to make any tactical decisions that could have affected the outcome- and our attempt to defuse the situation before it started failed spectacularly.

Although the actual casualties might be different this time around. The violence started half an hour earlier, so the distribution and exact positions of troops might not have been the same. Exactly who it was who caught bullets outside the bar could have changed.
No. 63963 ID: a00410

Yeah we might still have some green force guy left. What was his name 'Wellen, Wendel'? Seem pretty cool. I'd like to see him make it if only for some token human faces around. I like all the other races just fine, I'm even a bit a a fur fan but I'd like to see some human input for contrast. Were out there too and such. So far only a few humans have been seen. And their all from the trade hub.

I am currently theorizing that this asteroid might been off the space lanes the human ship tend to traverse. So most of the humans are remnants and descendants of passengers of the ships of other races (Mostly Pomi and Belenosians) or the same for prisoners of pirates.

That is just speculation based on what I have seen. It also might just be their in the back ground because it is not easy to draw human faces. Snouts are easier for some people. (Hitler couldn't draw human faces).

Sorry Enough Hitler.

Any way this is just a dump of rumination. But what is the deal with humans? Im mostly just curious.
No. 63967 ID: 48de7f

Next do Cat Pin/Spade Pin
No. 63968 ID: beeca1

I'm not sure how that would work. Maybe the two of them getting melted down and their combined metal making some kind of piercing, but that's slightly creepy, and it gets creepier the more I think about it.

...Eh, I'll just describe the two pins being attached to Jess' jacket in obsessive detail.
No. 63969 ID: c4e5c2
File 135336651058.png - (4.59KB , 300x300 , JessicaReadsAStory.png )

I am plenty guilty of finding human faces harder to draw and look acceptable. It doesn't help, but I think the main reason here is that regardless of if I draw human faces fine or not, it's hard for me to get a stylistic representation of humans going that doesn't seem to clash with everyone else. In other words, when humans are around, they always seem to be a stark mismatch with the rest of the rather cartoonized species. There's probably a whole slew of hypotheses for why that is, and maybe it's just me, but that's the ungraceful, meta reason why humans are rarely seen.
No. 63974 ID: beeca1

Aw fuck screwed up the tags on the previous version

Here goes nothing.

Warning: physics geekery, no happy ending

For too long, the lovers had been separated by the vast swathes of brown fabric. They were so close, but their inanimate states and their lack of locomotion even if they were animate made the centimeter further than the bathroom when you've been eating Taco Bell lately and can barely hold it in. Spade Pin really dug Cat Pin, and though Cat Pin tried to act above it all, Spade knew Cat liked Spade, too.

One glorious day, they were ripped off of the jacket when Jessica took it off in the previous slashfic. But that wasn't the glorious part. Oh, no. That came when they were re-inserted the morning after, which I suppose means it wasn't actually one glorious day but two, but who the hell cares in porn, and the by now insanely rigid points of the pins came together.

They were so excited that the motion of their electrons alone was enough to initiate electron capture on a relatively massive scale when millions of stray electrons slammed into one of the nuclei in the other pin. Massive amounts of gamma radiation were emitted by the capture alone, and the massive, unstable isotopes formed quickly decayed, releasing even more radiation, heat, and pressure.

Soon enough, the hellish agony pure love of the two pins was so great that nuclear fusion took place.

On the one hand, the energy needed to fuse transferrous elements was so great that it was effectively a miniature supernova. Everything in a <insert arbitrarily round number here>-mile radius was vaporized and the electrons stripped from that vapor, and the plasma and radiation produced boiled and/or sterilized the rest of the asteroid before dissipating to a relatively harmless level roughly equal to cosmic background radiation some light-years away.

On the other hand, the clusterfuck never happened and Itcher and Jessica never had to worry about their strange new relationship, which made it... not all better, certainly, so I suppose I didn't lie about there being no happy ending.

No, that wasn't the actual ending. At least, not the only version of the actual ending. I'll think of more later.
No. 63976 ID: beeca1

Oh, and I'm glad to see Jessica liked the slashfic.
No. 63991