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File 137138632038.png - (11.67KB , 600x400 , dungeoneer_disc.png )
72355 No. 72355 ID: 325550

Might be a premature, but I'm quite confident we're going to have ALL OF THE TALKING once dungeon design really gets rolling.

Also this little dragony guy needs a name!
411 posts omitted. Last 100 shown. Expand all images
>>
No. 83481 ID: 53ba34

>>83479
it's called shotgun planning. you blast a large area of ideas and one may hit the right spot.
>>
No. 83482 ID: a2f9bc

>>83481
I suppose that's valid. More confused about the lines of thought than anything.
>>
No. 83483 ID: 874468

Brainstorming, aka "shotgun planning" often requires a filter-step before being used in quest like that. Some quest authors will vindictively take terrible suggestions and either use them directly or represent the character being distracted by them simply because they feel like it or they were just that annoyed with them. I'd suggest brainstorming not-a-plan-yet stuff in the questdis unless it's an appropriate occasion for throwing stuff against the wall with the quest character.
I might be wrong about this, but a time when the quest character is having their internal organs rearranged and their main body is about to drown is probably not the best time for such input in the main quest thread.
>>
No. 83487 ID: a2f9bc

It's not always vindictive. Deem is in a highly agitated state and her own 'filters' are probably less capable than usual. I could see her passing over a safe plan like using the golems for something that has immediate results like throwing around fire. She's scared, angry, disoriented.

It'd be perfectly fair for her to act rashly in this situation. It's just some of the plans are weird.
>>
No. 83518 ID: 874468

>It's not always vindictive.
Well yes and no, in a case like Deem in this quest the 'character' takes input and responds to it. However, the internet being what it is a quest often couldn't work without the author generously reinterpreting or ignoring many responses: Some of the plans are always 'weird.' That means that when an author decides to pay attention to moronic responses and act on them without that filter it can effectively be a temper-tantrum or collective reprisal against 'the readers' for not (somehow) shutting up the assholes and morons. That's where my characterization of it as vindictive comes from. There's probably a better description for it but I'm not reaching for my thesaurus today.

To be fair, I know why I usually don't want to run quests: I'm not generally interested in the responses and creativity of a random selection of forum nerds that tend to suggest that most quest characters get it on. Sometimes we come up with interesting, insightful, creative and intelligent responses, but panning for gold in the muck is dirty at best. Some months I just don't want to bother with TGChan at all.
>>
No. 83579 ID: 256d52
File 140534906571.png - (11.28KB , 600x400 , fashion_level_expert.png )
83579

Slightly out there ideas are very useful for introducing new information.

There were very good ideas but, well, this is Deem we're talking about. She's got a remarkable capacity for screwing things up if given the opportunity.
>>
No. 83582 ID: 1f8505

>>83579

Sweater~
>>
No. 83597 ID: 874468

>>83579
How the heck does someone that prone to self-sabotage manage to become a leading dungeon? Were all the others even more insane and/or incompetent?
>>
No. 83603 ID: 53ba34

>>83597
she is sorta suffering from.... a rather large lobotomy. only the shard is awake, the rest of the heart is asleep so she can only SORTA control it.
>>
No. 83604 ID: c9aef5

Even if that's not the case, I imagine that it's a rather massive worry on her mind, even when she's not actively paying attention to it, sooo once it's all connected? I imagine she'll be much more capable/competent.
Though she probably is also suffering from a bit of 'living is overrated/ascended device' syndrome-she's not USED to a 'self' that's a person, rather, she's more of a living location, normally.
>>
No. 83623 ID: fbd3fd

>>83597
>How the heck does someone that prone to self-sabotage manage to become a leading dungeon?

Well, the whole point was to attract adventurers, right? And to do that you'd want to give them the idea they could win. Filling herself with secret shortcut passages, weapons that could be picked up and used by visitors, leaving keys to locked doors somewhere outside that door so that they can be opened after killing a boss or solving a puzzle... all beneficial if you're a dungeon. Being perfectly locked up and inaccessible would mean that no-one would come to try their luck.

So a certain level of subconscious 'well I can't let myself win TOO easily' might be an actual thing.
>>
No. 83625 ID: 22d852

I would think a good deal of her impulsiveness is due to her current situation. Her injury has left her emotionally vulnerable, she'd got holes in her memory, she's missing or lost a lot of filters or caution that might hold her back, and she's still got a massive ego and the power to back it up. All in all, it makes sense that it would leave her volatile.

>just control a golem
Golem-use or creation is coming up in a lot of the suggestions, but I can't help but think Deem's not in any condition to do golemtry. Having her heart compromised seems to have completely disrupted her fine control of all her golems, main body included.

>For the record, I interpret this as being a situation (from Deem's perspective) most closely analogous to rape. I feel that similar tact and carefulness should be observed in addressing the subject, especially in regards to who's at fault, or "this wouldn't have happened if".
Yeah. You're not the only one getting that rather ugly vibe, here.
>>
No. 83863 ID: 256d52
File 140584618674.png - (16.72KB , 600x500 , zoom.png )
83863

>>83597
>How the heck does someone that prone to self-sabotage manage to become a leading dungeon? Were all the others even more insane and/or incompetent?
That is an interesting question, isn't it? One that it might be worth asking Deem.

I should maybe point out that she did run a boss fight against Moriko without a single hitch.

And it's always worth remembering: E rank Luck!

This was an unused panel from a few updates ago, since I decided it was better to fit Hin in the shot.

I swear the silly faces is the most rewarding part of all this.
>>
No. 83864 ID: a2f9bc

I doubt Deem's gonna respond to reason right now. She'll have to be tricked into showing restraint.
>>
No. 83866 ID: 2f4b71

>I swear the silly faces is the most rewarding part of all this.
The faces are great. Please continue faces.
>>
No. 83870 ID: 874468

>>83863
I see your silly faces and raise you a giant, blue catgirl.
http://www.tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/565839.html#584862
>>
No. 83882 ID: a2f9bc

Also, I don't think blood magic is much of a thing. Deem's broken heart "bleeds" raw mana in liquidy form, but that is not indicative of the form of magic she is using, rather only that she's using more than she can control in her current state.

I think the reason for the shift in her demeanor is hinted at when she says
>Tap, tap, tap. Each beat of her pulse is like a tiny hammer blow. As though a web of cracks is spreading through me, fracturing at each strike. Flushes of heat and chill rock me and something rises up from deep inside of me. Something insatiable.
It's possible her seal is designed to reinforce with exposure to the Earth Pulse and when exposed to something else, the seal weakens, letting out the old Deem.
>>
No. 83886 ID: 2fd516

>>83882
It was specifically Hin's heartbeat, though. Instead of simply being separated from the Earth Pulse, she's exposed to whatever Hin's pulse represents, and that's affecting Deem somehow.
>>
No. 83888 ID: a2f9bc

>>83886
We know that life functions are involved in mana respiration/production. Deem's golem body breathes, for example. I believe it was even said that physical activity can stimulate mana recuperation. Mana function seems to be pretty closely tied to the corporeal in this setting.

I think it's a combination of being separated from the Earth Pulse and being aggravated by the presence of an individual's mana flow. Hin's ancestry might make her mana especially disruptive, but I don't think we know if ogres have an elemental leaning or not.
>>
No. 83891 ID: 2fd516

>>83888
Isn't mana respiration similar to the Earth Pulse, then? It's literally a pulse that generates mana. One could call it blood magic, even if it's not really something you can use directly.
>>
No. 83894 ID: a2f9bc

>>83891
I guess you could, but I'm pretty sure people generate mana by breathing, eating, and sleeping too. It's more like... life magic. Or just magic, since the distinction seems pretty narrow in this setting.

I'm not sure if the mana is being generated or simply moved around by the action of the circulatory system either. Probably both.
>>
No. 83930 ID: 874468

>I'm not sure if the mana is being generated or simply moved around by the action of the circulatory system either. Probably both.
I refer you to the concept of electricity: It IS the momvement of electrons.
>>
No. 84199 ID: 256d52
File 140647851242.png - (33.66KB , 750x600 , a_conspiracy2.png )
84199

>>83866
>The faces are great. Please continue faces.
I'll try.

>>83870
>I see your silly faces and raise you a giant, blue catgirl.
What do you think this is, an Academy Award winning film by James Cameron?!

>I'm not sure if the mana is being generated or simply moved around by the action of the circulatory system either. Probably both.
The basic idea is mana requires movement and connection with the world outside. The earth pulse is simply an extraordinarily powerful source of mana that can be tapped into by using gold.

This little picture was because I was considering showing that Deem doesn't have normal vision from her Heart but she's supposed to have good perception of her immediate area. I'll probably use something similar for the edge of her sight range.
>>
No. 84329 ID: 89b2a2

How are curses different from normal enchantments? And what can Deem actually do with them?

As for designing the dungeon I do have a basic concept, which I will have to work on.
>>
No. 84341 ID: 53ba34

>>84329
remember, ITQ Deem practically stated her fall fro being one of the top dungeons was stagnation. adventurers eventually knew all the tricks of her dragon and so were able to beat it. we need something that can change up enough to never grow stale.
>>
No. 84356 ID: a2f9bc

We have no evidence that Deem's fall was in any way linked or correlated with the fall of her rather impressive dragon.

Effort during the set-up stage is probably best focused towards simply getting things up and running. At least enough we don't debate endlessly over super modular dungeon designs we're nowhere near actually ready to implement anyway.
>>
No. 84412 ID: 53ba34

>>84356
i sad fall from top dungeon, as in, being the hardest, max level raid groups only dungeon. because after the loss her dragon just didn't put as much effort into the battles anymore.
>>
No. 84484 ID: ccd544

what's all this about deem's dragon falling?
Did i miss a quest thread, or was this in IRC?
>>
No. 84487 ID: 53ba34

>>84484
'inside the quest' thread.
>>
No. 84637 ID: 761017

>>84487
i read it, couldn't find it.
>>
No. 84641 ID: 4b571b

>what's all this about deem's dragon falling?
>couldn't find it [Inside the Quest]
Here: >>80117

Also, there are links to all of the quest's itq posts on the wiki page. Sometimes it's easier to go through those then to try and search the thread (or threads) yourself.
>>
No. 84653 ID: 256d52
File 140802333312.png - (9.11KB , 480x300 , mimic_rejected_concept.png )
84653

>Remember, ITQ Deem practically stated her fall from being one of the top dungeons was stagnation. Adventurers eventually knew all the tricks of her dragon and so were able to beat it.
>What's all this about Deem's dragon falling?
>Did I miss a quest thread, or was this in IRC?
I'll comment that I've been trying to follow the advice that the information presented in the quest itself should be all that's needed to make informed decisions about things.

This is, of course, slightly complicated by the fact Deem sometimes misses details or doesn't fully explain herself but that's what asking questions is for.

The discussion thread and ITQ answers are intended to be bonus information, or previews of something that hasn't been covered yet.
>>
No. 84751 ID: a2f9bc

>>84653
Would the mimic have also been a cute girl like the slime ended up as? For some reason I just assumed so, but now I am curious.
>>
No. 84755 ID: 256d52
File 140836640169.jpg - (79.46KB , 629x564 , mimic_girl.jpg )
84755

>Would the mimic have also been a cute girl like the slime ended up as? For some reason I just assumed so, but now I am curious.
I did briefly consider it as I have seen some designs I really liked such as pic related, but in the end I decided to go with a more traditional mimic.

Besides, Larro has that pretty sewn up!

There's a few questions I forgot about answering and so that means...
>>
No. 84756 ID: 256d52
File 140836682026.png - (26.14KB , 700x500 , magic_102.png )
84756

Pay attention, as class has started.

>I have a question, why did you manifest glasses if your eyes are made entirely out of magic?
For the look of the thing.

>Can reinforcement improve magical abilities as well as physical ones?
Reinforcement is difficult when applied to less physical things. It's easy to understand how you might make something stronger or tougher, but how can you make someone more intelligent, more willful or more skilled? The simplest application is acceleration - you might make someone think faster or enhance some of their spell channels to process mana faster. Such a thing wouldn't be a good idea in my case. Reinforcement does put a strain on the recipient and my channels are already unstable.

It is possible to directly reinforce someone's spell casting capacity but unless you're planning some sort of permanent enhancement, most of the time it is better to use an enchantment and add specialised high efficiency channels directly.

>If so, is that how magic staffs and such work?
Magic staffs have embedded spell channels wrought by enchantment. A magus still needs to construct the last portions of a spell to cast it. A spell focus such as a staff has portions of some types of spells included to simplify casting and improve power.

>Is it viable to use enchantments to give our boss form a ranged attack like eye beams or a volley of conjured stone shards?
Yes, such things are essentially grafting any necessary physical alterations and a high efficiency spell channel to the recipient.

>Miss Deem, it seems that your current golem-body operates almost entirely on first and second magics. Is this true?
Almost. I also use the Fourth Magic. It's right there in my scan:

Golem Corpus: Deem's body is an amalgam of clay and stone animated by her magic. This makes her difficult to injure and even her bare hands are effective weapons. She's internalised an incomplete form of golemetry's Fourth Magic, the capacity to connect to the world, which allows her limited mana respiration. This reduces the energy required to sustain her body to almost zero when she's inactive.

>Also, is there any particular utility to attempting to expand the enchantments on the body with third, fourth and fifth magics or would the balance of benefit versus risk and cost be inadequate?
This body is not alive. It will not develop by itself. If it is to become any stronger, I will need to modify it. The Fourth Magic is the most immediately useful, as it would bring it closer to a living state and improve my spell casting. I'm uncertain of what the Third Magic, motive, might achieve. Instinct, perhaps? It could potentially improve my Heart fragment's integration. The Fifth Magic, thought, would mostly be counter-productive as it would interfere with my control.

>How are curses different from normal enchantments?
Curses are related to both reinforcement and enchantment, but the key difference is that they do not require any compatibility with their victims. They are barbed constructions made to sink into their victims body and souls irretrievably, causing worse damage if not carefully removed.

The art of cursing originated from frustrated desire. A greedy wish to have something, no matter what distortion it may cause to the world. It takes no great skill to create a curse. Wanting something is enough. Bitter hatred or a heedless, devouring kind of love.

Of course, once this principle is understood, it is easy enough to learn to reproduce. The power to weaken one's enemies is very valuable. There's no surprise it is widely practiced. It might lack the intensity of something that is truly heartfelt, but technique can compensate for this.

Skill in reinforcement, enchantment and curses is complementary. Knowledge of reinforcement and enchantment allows more sophisticated curses, while knowledge of curses allows a better understanding of how to integrate a spell into someone with only minimal damage, reducing the compatibility requirements for enchantment and reinforcement.

>And what can Deem actually do with them?
I could hate someone to death? An untrained curse typically harms the victim, as the darker emotions are more suited to summoning the sort of the monomaniacal intensity an curse needs to be cast without any magical knowledge. A curse may even take on physical form to hunt its victim. A vengeful ghost is often a curse.

The fact that a curse needs no compatibility with its intended target is why, unlike reinforcement, it can weaken them. The most basic ones simply cause bad luck, weakness or madness, but with skill more nuanced applications are possible. The effects of a curse can even be beneficial but this strength is tainted. A curse's infliction causes damage and it stands in opposition to the true state of the afflicted. By way of an example, were-creatures are the result of a powerful and ancient curse.
>>
No. 84757 ID: e607cd

>>84755
Awww, but we always need more mimic girls for Chest Day
>>
No. 84758 ID: 53ba34

do you have the skill to extract curses? like say, we manage to capture some kind of were-beast, could you pull the were out of them without killing them? perhaps with some kind of dungeon structure's help?
>>
No. 84760 ID: b651f5

What kind of damage does an improperly removed curse do, and is it possible to make a self-removing curse to cause that damage automatically?
>>
No. 84771 ID: 89b2a2

>>84756
I wonder if we can make a perpetual motion machine by cursing a skeleton to life and then enchanting it to have helicopter arms.

Or something.
>>
No. 84805 ID: 761017

>>84771
*thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwi
p**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip**thwip*
>>
No. 84809 ID: 256d52
File 140862970027.png - (18.55KB , 480x600 , magic_102_extra.png )
84809

>So you have the skill to extract curses? like say, we manage to capture some kind of were-beast, could you pull the were out of them without killing them? perhaps with some kind of dungeon structure's help?
Yes. I would need structures to do so, one to remove the curse and one to store it in something. Not killing them in the process is harder.

>What kind of damage does an improperly removed curse do, and is it possible to make a self-removing curse to cause that damage automatically?
That would depend on the nature and longevity of the curse. Typically a shorter but more intense version of it, or lingering permanent damage. For your second question, think of a broadhead arrow - is it possible to design one that comes out by itself that's still much use as an arrow?

>I wonder if we can make a perpetual motion machine by cursing a skeleton to life and then enchanting it to have helicopter arms.
That is nothing like how anything works.
>>
No. 84814 ID: 0ee153

>>84809
Yes to both. Enhance a broadhead arrow with a curse. Have the curse force the target to pull out the arrow and stab itself again. Repeat.
>>
No. 84815 ID: 720952

>For your second question, think of a broadhead arrow - is it possible to design one that comes out by itself that's still much use as an arrow?

Well, if you made it heavier, shored it up, made the shaft really smooth and redesigned the fletching so it'd either come off easily on impact or be able to pass through, you could make an arrow that would punch through all the way and come out by itself on the other side.

So... instead of making a curse that could pull itself out, what if you front-loaded it so that it destabilized and tore itself off? Maybe by giving it too much power to be restrained by its own ability to 'stick' to its target?
>>
No. 84816 ID: a2f9bc

That doesn't sound like how anything works either.

For one, it sounds like "enhance x with a curse" is a contradiction of terms because curses don't enhance things. They seem defined by just the opposite.

I'm curious whether curses can be transmitted via objects though. There's some ambiguity between, say, a necklace that curses the bearer with bad luck and a necklace that is cursed to give the bearer bad luck. The distinction is pretty important from a mechanical perspective though. The former doesn't seem like something I'd expect under the system as Deem has described it.
>>
No. 84819 ID: 53ba34

>>84816
what no, you can make enhancing curses, they are just a double edged sword. such as, were-wolf curse could have started as someone trying to give them the power of a wolf, but it refused to stick as a enchantment, so they used a curse to FORCE it to stick.
>>
No. 84820 ID: dde2af

>simply cause bad luck
o-oh.
err, hypothetically, how would one find out if one is cursed?
>>
No. 84958 ID: 697427

> For your second question, think of a broadhead arrow - is it possible to design one that comes out by itself that's still much use as an arrow?

A 'frog crotch' arrow inflicts the same sort of tearing on impact that a broadhead tends to inflict during inexpert extraction. Downside is it shatters rather than penetrating armor, but if your allies have good armor and you're trying to chew up some bare-chested barbarians at close range that turns into an asset.
>>
No. 87265 ID: a2f9bc

I'm concerned by the haste with which people are rushing to excuse Hin's actions with Deem's decision to keep her nature private.

It's definitely true that the circumstances created by Deem's choice lead to the events that occurred, but to categorize it as 'foolish', as some claim it, can only be correct if Deem had any reasonable expectation that veiling her nature would cause risk or harm to anyone, which I would argue against, especially in the short term.

There was enough information available, and unavailable, to conclude that being careless with her identity was more dangerous than otherwise. Deem's secrecy and nature both presented no known direct threat to anyone in her group, and therefore she had every right to say as much or as little as she pleased. I think it is a stretch to claim Deem's reticence as anything more than unfortunate given following events; she certainly bears no moral responsibility for the tampering with her heart.

No, Hin is an ostensibly responsible adult and she can shoulder the burden of her own failures, as Deem must for those she is actually accountable for. The use of Alkaline, for instance. Hin messed up, she erred, she was wrong, but that doesn't mean our options are crucify her or baptise her in apologies. She can be wrong and forgiven, simple as that.

Taking on her sins is bad leadership, bad precedent, unproductive, and inauthentic.
>>
No. 87267 ID: 256d52
File 141734439210.png - (33.16KB , 750x520 , deem_alkaline_compare.png )
87267

Since I forgot to mention it at the time, here is a thing.

Deem has a powerful affinity for furniture!
>>
No. 87274 ID: ec2e47

>>87267
You know, furniture based golems is a trap I don't think I have seen before. Chests or barrels yes, but not the table next to the chest...
>>
No. 87328 ID: bfdaf0

I was wondering, about Reisarf's "curse of formlessness" spell: How long does its normal effect last? How long does its *spectacular* effect last?
>>
No. 87360 ID: 256d52

>>87328
To give a better answer than just 'It depends!', a minute or two normally and several minutes for super effective. If it's used more than once the effect and duration stacks.
>>
No. 87373 ID: 32b1b0

>>87360
Thanks!
>>
No. 87849 ID: 5fcdcc

Would replacing the clay plug in the Heart with gold be a good idea?
>>
No. 87851 ID: b00646

That would be like pouring gold over a circuit, all the signals would be crossed and shit hits the fan
>>
No. 87855 ID: 5fcdcc

We've seen that concentrated mana becomes a pseudoliquid, can further concentration cause it to crystalize into a solid? Is the Dungeon Heart made of crystalized manna?
>>
No. 89450 ID: 1bb359

When's dungeoneer proper coming back online? Does Bloom have to run its course first?
>>
No. 89490 ID: 256d52

>>87849
Clay had the advantage that it is porous so the leaked mana slowly percolates out. That mana saturated clay should probably be changed out every so often.

Pouring gold or something else impermeable in there would could cause, uh, let's call it a pressure build up.

That would be bad.

On the bright side, the gold might turn into chrysadamant!

>>87855
It could happen but that would require an absurd amount of mana. Raw mana forms in a liquid like that because Deem's surroundings can't hold anywhere near as much mana as her Heart can.

A Heart grows by accumulating mana but it's not just crystallised mana, no.

>>89450
When I am less disorganised.

Bloom and the joke thread have the unfair advantage that they have a much simpler update structure.
>>
No. 89605 ID: 34bbab

HEY GUYSH

maybe the girl whose bones we found was the one who ordered our outfit but had to run away and died before she picked it up. Intrigue!
>>
No. 89648 ID: 3d1c54

Questions for next class: Mana. What is it? Is it like fat, a compound that stores energy, or is it more like nanobots that alter the properties of what ever you're magic-zing at the sub-somthingucle level? either way, what's it made of? Is there a basic unit of mana?

Earth Pulse: is it measured in BpM? It's a source of mana. Does it attracts and/or condenses mana via gold and action or spontaneously produces it? Does this action have to be exclusively violent or just rigorous? Does gold and other noble metals have some sort of managnatism or mana conductivity?

I assume that the following are factors in determining the strength and frequency of the pulse, as well as the volume of mana produced:

- amount of compatible/sympathetic material (gold, gems etc.)
- the level of compatibility of the material (presumably gold would have a higher level or rating than silver)
- the quality/purity of said material
- the average amount of pulse conductive activity within a given space
- the total amount of space with pulse conductive activity
- The size and/capacity of the mana conduits
>>
No. 89991 ID: 256d52
File 142795075497.png - (7.62KB , 316x339 , deem_afd.png )
89991

I've been thinking about switching to a faster, hand drawn style.
>>
No. 89995 ID: 8f7720

>>89991
Beautiful.
>>
No. 90007 ID: 8d46da

>>89450
>>89490
>>89991
Grapevine says your done with Dungeoneer. Is it true, or another belated April fools?
>>
No. 90008 ID: 946a53

>>89991
i am in love
>>
No. 90048 ID: ad7bba

When Alkaline starts popping out baby slimes, Deem will get teased for being a grandmother.

That is all.
>>
No. 90430 ID: 550270

>>89648
Let me take a stab at that problem,I can attempt to organize a bit of it. It wont be canon, but hopefully it'll be consistent with what we know and make enough sense to be acceptable.

We have to make a number of assumptions before answering these question.First, let's assume that there is an irreducible particle of mana that can be measured and counted. Let's call it a manum. Let's represent mana as an n with a long right leg, Ƞ. (mostly because I'm pretty sure it hasn't represented anything else since it was depreciated from Lakota phonetics.) Mana-pulse, therefore, may be defined as the quantity of mana is produced in a finite space of time or the time it takes to produce a single manum. Mana-pulse, then, would be PȠ . If T were time, then our definition of mana-pulse would be formulated as:

PȠ = Ƞ / T

But that only expresses how mana-pulse can be measured, not how it's determined. As you suggested, we know that gems, noble metals and other rare earths accelerate earth pulse depending on their quality. The same can be said of physical activity and possibly the intangible variable of ambition, willpower or desire. This implies the aforementioned five values; three for describing the mineral component and two for the activity.

V– for the value of the material
Q– for the quality or refinement of the material
M– for the amount (mass) of the material

E – for the energy expended in qualifying activity
Ð – for emotional drive involved

V represents the worth of the material, both on the market and as part of a magical system. The more it's worth, the smaller the number. Platinum .5, Gold 1, Copper 2 etc. Gems vary. Since magical materials are addressed by Q, they will not factor in here.

Q indicates the the purity of the material in parts per hundred. Worthless dross would be 0, 75% purity .75, and perfectly undiluted material would be 1 (because screw the fineness system). Anything above 100% represents magical materials, such as adamantium or orichalcum. 1.5 or 150% would indicate a half mundane half magical alloy, and 2 or 200% is pure enhanced material. (Please, no inquiries after the magical properties or genetic purity of people of african descent. I'm not a rapper and this isn't Song of the South)

M should be self explanatory, measured in grams.
E should likewise be simple to understand. Measured in joules.

Ð modifies E. Where there is no emotional drive (were deem to be assaulted by constructs or golems from a rival faction) E is reduced. Where there is an abundance of passion, E is augmented. Ð can represent .5, 1.5 and any value between. Ð is measured in demes.

So the formula I propose for determining the mana-pulse is as follows:

PȠ = ÐE (MQ/V)

And for evaluating the average mana-pulse in a cubic metre within specific volume of space, assuming uniform diffusion:

PȠ = (ÐE/m3)(MQ/V)

Not even going to approach determining rate of flow or pressure or anything else regarding fluid dynamics; better to let sleeping dragons lie.
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No. 93007 ID: ebcefd
File 143664975057.jpg - (33.85KB , 800x500 , DungeonDiagram1.jpg )
93007

Basic dungeon layout:
This uses minimal digging, though it does assume we can have big gate-opening buttons or levers (which seems like the sort of thing we would have).
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No. 93008 ID: ebcefd
File 143664982990.jpg - (33.20KB , 800x500 , DungeonDiagram1_5.jpg )
93008

Basic dungeon layout alternate:
No buttons needed and more corridor space for traps, but requires a significant amount of digging.
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No. 93009 ID: 7ee2dc

>>93007
>>93008

Looks like there's a load of valuable artifacts to be dug out, there.
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No. 93010 ID: 0fc976

Is there a specific point where monsters spawn? If so, we should set it under the water, so they emerge from the pool and look awesome.

The entrance could have a golem incorporated into it as a doorman, like a security camera. We get a general sense of what's in our dungeon already, but a set of eyes at the door could serve as a better analysis, security camera, and decoration all in one.

I do like that button/gate design, but I think we should rush to get a barebones dungeon set up ASAP we can change later and this would take too long. Also, that branch should probably connect to the button area rather than the same hallway as the boss room eventually, unless we block off the hallway when it's built and make it part of the path.
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No. 93011 ID: bd8b82

you guys are missing a heart room. the heart and treasury need to be underground but also adventurers cannot get into it.

the underwater area will turn into damp area when the water is mostly drained, making it great for all those slimes we will be getting.
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No. 93012 ID: ebcefd

>>93011
I thought the heart chamber was also the treasury. If that is not the case then our super-bare-bones dungeon should have the heart in the cave-in room behind a seal and the boss room be an expansion of the current chest loction.
>>
No. 93014 ID: bd8b82

>>93012
the heart and treasury can be in the same room, sure, but the boss room cannot be the treasury.
>>
No. 93015 ID: b19c84

>>93014
Hello! Yes it can. It's just high risk until a sealed off treasury can be made because if you lose once you can lose everything. That is all.
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No. 93016 ID: aef4c1

How are dungeons usually lit?
We could perhaps disguise the Dungeon Heart, hiding it in a lamp structure, and putting in lamps elsewhere that incorporate similar-looking crystals. Then it would be perceived as background decoration, ignored unless the adventurers are of the take-the-nailed-down-stuff-too persuasion.
Assuming it's not absurdly obvious in mage-o-vision, of course.
>>
No. 93018 ID: bd8b82

>>93016
supposedly hearts get a LOT bigger once they are running on all cylinders.
>>
No. 93030 ID: e114bc

>>93018
Wait... wouldn't that mean the fragment in Deem's golem would get bigger too?
>>
No. 93039 ID: ab7529

>>93030
Golem-Deem gets all anime, has to walk around with a giant spear of crystal sticking through her.
>>
No. 93043 ID: 2f4b71

>>93030
>Enhance Crystals
>>
No. 93067 ID: d4a543

I like the button/gate concept but I think it should be turned around. Dig out the collapsed area incrementally, adding successive puzzles with incorrect answers activating deadfall traps courtesy of the naturally unstable ceiling. Solving the final puzzle gives you a temporary water breathing reinforcement, and points the way to treasure down the other branch.

Heart chamber and treasury are combined, but if somebody takes too long fiddling with the chest or gets too greedy, reinforcement wears off and they drown on the way back. Possible tentacle ambush concealed in the silt just in case some adventurer tries to clean you out and happens to be drown-proof.

Passage to the valley is sealed off for living quarters, workshops, and respawn point, so work on expanding upward can proceed without interruption by adventurers.
>>
No. 93576 ID: 13ff66

The Qualities of a Dungeon

Commerce: A place high in commerce sees more gold move through it and settle there. The highest in commerce is a ideal for gathering gold, rare items and other valuables.

Blood Rite: A place high in blood rite involves violent activity pleasing to the under-worldly powers. The strongest in blood rite is endlessly aflame with activity and the very air is constantly charged and pumping with power, an endless stream of challengers testing might and wit at the risk of life and limb. The weakest in blood rite are static, stagnant places that dull the senses and drain the will to fight. Ideal for producing mana-pulse.

Legitimacy: A place high in legitimacy is in good standing with the surrounding people, institutions and polities. The most legitimate is often a pillar of the community that people have come to depend on and cannot operate well without, the least legitimate considered a burden or threat to the surrounding area and will suffer attempts at it's destruction. High Legitimacy is ideal for long-term sustainability.

Security: explains itself and I'm getting tired.

Can y'all think of any else?
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No. 93580 ID: bd8b82

>>93576
each of the first three actually would improve the others. a place of challenge invites strong warriors with their loads of loot and cash. this promotes commerce which also goes to the nearby town where the challengers rest, stock and celebrate. this promotes the legitimacy as the town gathers others besides the challengers. having a support network in the town then makes a dungeon look more attractive to warriors due to people feeling they have a safety net nearby in the town.
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No. 93588 ID: 2a7417

Given their ability to generate theoretically infinite amounts of precious metals from adventurers' activities, do you think dungeoneers have to deal with real life gold farmers? Perhaps they trade common currency for something less tangible, like labor, or a contract for your soul...

>having a captcha for your dungeon
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No. 93607 ID: 13ff66

>>93580
> each of the first three actually would improve the others.
I disagree, more strongly on some points than others.

> a place of challenge invites strong warriors with their loads of loot and cash.
I doubt an experienced dungeon crawler would carry more gold than required for a fountain Resurrection; he's looted enough dead bodies to know not to carry his life savings. Still, a valid point.

> this promotes commerce which also goes to the nearby town where the challengers rest, stock and celebrate.
True, but Deem is not the town, therefore she does not benefit from it as a 'dungeon' quality. Additionally, assuming dungeon-crawling is this person's primary source of income, that means they are spending treasure and gold looted from our dungeon.

> this promotes the legitimacy as the town gathers others besides the challengers. having a support network in the town then makes a dungeon look more attractive to warriors due to people feeling they have a safety net nearby in the town.
If this sense of security convinces young, poor, starry eyed men to trot off to the dungeon who do not come back, is it still good for our legitimacy? After these events repeat themselves a few dozen times you have a large group of angry widows and parents. +Bloodrite, -Legitimacy
>>
No. 93608 ID: ab7529

>>93607
What do you mean Deem is not the town? That's not thinking very big. If we invest in (or own) businesses in town, we'll make money off of them.

The dungeon attracts traveling adventurers, who spend bring in and gold in town, and bring spoils and raw materials from the dungeon back to town. The dungeon produces resources naturally, it harvests income from fallen adventures, and if it's smart, invests in the town to bleed gold from it as it grows. The town makes money supplying adventurers, and reselling / processing the materials harvested from the dungeon, and trades / pays gold to the dungeon for stuff it wants that's not easily harvested by adventures or as repayment for investments.

Done right, we can have a positive feedback loop between the town and dungeon, as they fuel each others growth. The earth pulse will feed it from one direction, and forgein trade / travelers from the other.
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No. 93617 ID: ebcefd

>young, poor, starry eyed men to trot off to the dungeon who do not come back
If there is not an adventurer-loan system in place we will have to work with a town dweller to make one. Here's the basic concept:
1. Joe Noob wants to be an adventurer but needs some money for equipment and the very important rez-cash.
2. The loan agency places signs in town and on the path to the dungeons advertise Adventure Loans, "A no-down-payment method to give you the adventurer the essential ingredients to begin your quest for glory".
3. At the loan agency, Noob can sign a deal in which he gets a loan in return for an agreement to pay back an amount of loot based on the amount borrowed and to leave behind something curseable like a lock of hair or a small vial of blood as collateral.
4a. Noob dies before getting much/any loot and drops his rez-cash. The dungeon collects the rez-cash and gives the loan agency back a pre-agreed portion.
4b. Noob succeeds (or at least gets enough loot to turn a profit before dying or turning back). The loan agency gets its share of the loot from Noob and gives the dungeon back a pre-agreed portion.
4c. Noob takes the money and runs or profits from the dungeon and never repays. The dungeon and/or loan agency curses him.
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No. 93627 ID: bd8b82

>>93607
how rez system works, as well as how potions and magic work are probably known, even by the starry eyed young lads. a town simply wont care about an IDIOT getting killed for attacking a monster way stronger then them. a child? sure, a child is incapable of knowing better. but a married man is old enough to know the difference between a fight he can win and one he can't unless he is insane.
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No. 93668 ID: 13ff66

>>93627
try not to look at it with a modern lens. The frontal lobe (area affecting judgement) doesn't fully develop until age 25, and historically marrying age have been culturally accepted to be much younger than that. Of course magic didn't exist in these cultures, so that might lend so validity to your stance.
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No. 93670 ID: ad7bba

Well also the fact that if the culture judges them old enough to marry, it's likely to judge them to be old enough to own the consequences to their actions and not be treated as a child in matters of life and death. What with the doing that re: marriage.

There's very clearly an established dungeoneering culture, and I can't imagine that being the case if people mob dungeon operations because young idiots die in them. We know dungeons run into trouble when they are careless or malicious with the monster generation, but we're pretty remote up on the mountain here, so that shouldn't be a huge concern.

Better qualities would be more simple descriptions: remoteness, difficulty, fame/reputation. Things like that.

I also don't believe dungeons are typically oriented towards or even particularly well-suited for anything like typical interaction with other settlements. They, and their denizens, seem reclusive by nature.
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No. 93677 ID: 13ff66

>>93617
Cut down on potential bad reputation, and enable us to slice off our losses when they pay us back? Brilliant. I would avoid cursing though, that stuff is tricky business. As Aesop said: 'Ill intentions, like chickens, always come home to roost.'

Rather, mark them with a far more terrible and legitimate affliction: Debt collectors. Make sure we have everything in writing, an enforceable contract, and sell the outstanding debt to third parties. That way we get paid, and the debt is handed off to other people who then can collect from the delinquent at their own risk and leisure: easy money.
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No. 93681 ID: 3663d3

>>93676
tracking curse. the person cursed shows up really obvious to anyone looking for them.
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No. 93700 ID: 3663d3

why do people keep suggesting we imprison people? we fight people and beat them up. they die and resurrect. then they get more prepared. maybe buy an extra potion or something, and attack again a few days later. they don't try once then never try a dungeon again.
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No. 93717 ID: 99cfa8

>>93700
I don't know about anyone else but I wasn't suggesting we actually imprison people; rather, we make a section of dungeon that LOOKS like a prison (or just a medical facility), which we put ressed adventurers in, to let them escape and possibly come back when otherwise they would be permadead since they didn't have their own ressing.

The only reasons to make it a "prison" are theming, and concealing that we have resurrection. If we're not concerned about either of those then just ressing them and sending them on their way is fine too.
... Well, and we'd maybe get a little more earth-pulse racing from their "daring escape"s, but that's just gravy.

Of course if it is a "prison", that might have some PR issues, but not as bad as a real one would be.
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No. 93718 ID: 99cfa8

>>93717
And just to be clear, we would ONLY do this for adventurers that have no other means of resurrection and would therefore otherwise be dead dead.
>>
No. 93719 ID: 5c9255

Since that interjection might have come across a little harsher than I intended, I realise there's a lot of decisions on dungeon running (dungeonomics?) yet to be made but things do seem to run away from the current decision point pretty easily.
>>
No. 93723 ID: 2a7417

>>/quest/660065
I imagine the Golemancer's Guild would be displeased with us for creating a Grey Clay end-of-world scenario, albeit impressed.
>>
No. 93726 ID: 3663d3

>>93717
the problem is how much does it cost to res someone on the spot? pretty sure we bind all the dungeon inhabitants to our resurrection matrix. not just snatch them from the ether without any prep time.
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No. 93732 ID: ab7529

>>/quest/659987
>> And holding people for ransom changes the whole tone of what we're doing.
>You'd have to ask Deem about that; better not to assume. Regardless of her reception to the idea, we can't pretend that we can do this without it being seen as an act of hostility by the neighboring populace. These sorts of decisions carry consequences. If we want to go ahead with this route that's alright, so long as we are prepared for their natural outcomes.
I really don't need Deem to tell me what tone I see our (potential) actions setting. And neither apparently do you, since you feel comfortable casting them as hostile and dangerous.

...also I think you rather missed the point, and are responding to a post expressing caution / skepticism as if it endorsed the idea in question.
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No. 93791 ID: 13ff66

>>93732
Formatting error. Tried to correct it but the password got lost. went to the IRC to ask an admin to correct it, still haven't gotten a hold of one yet. That's just what happens when you do a bunch of little edits by copy-pasting, deleting-posting. Sorry for the mixed message; I'll be sure to write it out in a WP before I post next time.
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No. 93795 ID: 13ff66

>>/moo/3864
That's what it was supposed to look like.

THIS is what it's supposed to look like.
>>/moo/3865
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