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72355 No. 72355 ID: 325550

Might be a premature, but I'm quite confident we're going to have ALL OF THE TALKING once dungeon design really gets rolling.

Also this little dragony guy needs a name!
461 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
No. 87328 ID: bfdaf0

I was wondering, about Reisarf's "curse of formlessness" spell: How long does its normal effect last? How long does its *spectacular* effect last?
No. 87360 ID: 256d52

To give a better answer than just 'It depends!', a minute or two normally and several minutes for super effective. If it's used more than once the effect and duration stacks.
No. 87373 ID: 32b1b0

No. 87849 ID: 5fcdcc

Would replacing the clay plug in the Heart with gold be a good idea?
No. 87851 ID: b00646

That would be like pouring gold over a circuit, all the signals would be crossed and shit hits the fan
No. 87855 ID: 5fcdcc

We've seen that concentrated mana becomes a pseudoliquid, can further concentration cause it to crystalize into a solid? Is the Dungeon Heart made of crystalized manna?
No. 89450 ID: 1bb359

When's dungeoneer proper coming back online? Does Bloom have to run its course first?
No. 89490 ID: 256d52

Clay had the advantage that it is porous so the leaked mana slowly percolates out. That mana saturated clay should probably be changed out every so often.

Pouring gold or something else impermeable in there would could cause, uh, let's call it a pressure build up.

That would be bad.

On the bright side, the gold might turn into chrysadamant!

It could happen but that would require an absurd amount of mana. Raw mana forms in a liquid like that because Deem's surroundings can't hold anywhere near as much mana as her Heart can.

A Heart grows by accumulating mana but it's not just crystallised mana, no.

When I am less disorganised.

Bloom and the joke thread have the unfair advantage that they have a much simpler update structure.
No. 89605 ID: 34bbab


maybe the girl whose bones we found was the one who ordered our outfit but had to run away and died before she picked it up. Intrigue!
No. 89648 ID: 3d1c54

Questions for next class: Mana. What is it? Is it like fat, a compound that stores energy, or is it more like nanobots that alter the properties of what ever you're magic-zing at the sub-somthingucle level? either way, what's it made of? Is there a basic unit of mana?

Earth Pulse: is it measured in BpM? It's a source of mana. Does it attracts and/or condenses mana via gold and action or spontaneously produces it? Does this action have to be exclusively violent or just rigorous? Does gold and other noble metals have some sort of managnatism or mana conductivity?

I assume that the following are factors in determining the strength and frequency of the pulse, as well as the volume of mana produced:

- amount of compatible/sympathetic material (gold, gems etc.)
- the level of compatibility of the material (presumably gold would have a higher level or rating than silver)
- the quality/purity of said material
- the average amount of pulse conductive activity within a given space
- the total amount of space with pulse conductive activity
- The size and/capacity of the mana conduits
No. 89991 ID: 256d52
File 142795075497.png - (7.62KB , 316x339 , deem_afd.png )

I've been thinking about switching to a faster, hand drawn style.
No. 89995 ID: 8f7720

No. 90007 ID: 8d46da

Grapevine says your done with Dungeoneer. Is it true, or another belated April fools?
No. 90008 ID: 946a53

i am in love
No. 90048 ID: ad7bba

When Alkaline starts popping out baby slimes, Deem will get teased for being a grandmother.

That is all.
No. 90430 ID: 550270

Let me take a stab at that problem,I can attempt to organize a bit of it. It wont be canon, but hopefully it'll be consistent with what we know and make enough sense to be acceptable.

We have to make a number of assumptions before answering these question.First, let's assume that there is an irreducible particle of mana that can be measured and counted. Let's call it a manum. Let's represent mana as an n with a long right leg, Ƞ. (mostly because I'm pretty sure it hasn't represented anything else since it was depreciated from Lakota phonetics.) Mana-pulse, therefore, may be defined as the quantity of mana is produced in a finite space of time or the time it takes to produce a single manum. Mana-pulse, then, would be PȠ . If T were time, then our definition of mana-pulse would be formulated as:

PȠ = Ƞ / T

But that only expresses how mana-pulse can be measured, not how it's determined. As you suggested, we know that gems, noble metals and other rare earths accelerate earth pulse depending on their quality. The same can be said of physical activity and possibly the intangible variable of ambition, willpower or desire. This implies the aforementioned five values; three for describing the mineral component and two for the activity.

V– for the value of the material
Q– for the quality or refinement of the material
M– for the amount (mass) of the material

E – for the energy expended in qualifying activity
Ð – for emotional drive involved

V represents the worth of the material, both on the market and as part of a magical system. The more it's worth, the smaller the number. Platinum .5, Gold 1, Copper 2 etc. Gems vary. Since magical materials are addressed by Q, they will not factor in here.

Q indicates the the purity of the material in parts per hundred. Worthless dross would be 0, 75% purity .75, and perfectly undiluted material would be 1 (because screw the fineness system). Anything above 100% represents magical materials, such as adamantium or orichalcum. 1.5 or 150% would indicate a half mundane half magical alloy, and 2 or 200% is pure enhanced material. (Please, no inquiries after the magical properties or genetic purity of people of african descent. I'm not a rapper and this isn't Song of the South)

M should be self explanatory, measured in grams.
E should likewise be simple to understand. Measured in joules.

Ð modifies E. Where there is no emotional drive (were deem to be assaulted by constructs or golems from a rival faction) E is reduced. Where there is an abundance of passion, E is augmented. Ð can represent .5, 1.5 and any value between. Ð is measured in demes.

So the formula I propose for determining the mana-pulse is as follows:

PȠ = ÐE (MQ/V)

And for evaluating the average mana-pulse in a cubic metre within specific volume of space, assuming uniform diffusion:

PȠ = (ÐE/m3)(MQ/V)

Not even going to approach determining rate of flow or pressure or anything else regarding fluid dynamics; better to let sleeping dragons lie.
No. 93007 ID: ebcefd
File 143664975057.jpg - (33.85KB , 800x500 , DungeonDiagram1.jpg )

Basic dungeon layout:
This uses minimal digging, though it does assume we can have big gate-opening buttons or levers (which seems like the sort of thing we would have).
No. 93008 ID: ebcefd
File 143664982990.jpg - (33.20KB , 800x500 , DungeonDiagram1_5.jpg )

Basic dungeon layout alternate:
No buttons needed and more corridor space for traps, but requires a significant amount of digging.
No. 93009 ID: 7ee2dc


Looks like there's a load of valuable artifacts to be dug out, there.
No. 93010 ID: 0fc976

Is there a specific point where monsters spawn? If so, we should set it under the water, so they emerge from the pool and look awesome.

The entrance could have a golem incorporated into it as a doorman, like a security camera. We get a general sense of what's in our dungeon already, but a set of eyes at the door could serve as a better analysis, security camera, and decoration all in one.

I do like that button/gate design, but I think we should rush to get a barebones dungeon set up ASAP we can change later and this would take too long. Also, that branch should probably connect to the button area rather than the same hallway as the boss room eventually, unless we block off the hallway when it's built and make it part of the path.
No. 93011 ID: bd8b82

you guys are missing a heart room. the heart and treasury need to be underground but also adventurers cannot get into it.

the underwater area will turn into damp area when the water is mostly drained, making it great for all those slimes we will be getting.
No. 93012 ID: ebcefd

I thought the heart chamber was also the treasury. If that is not the case then our super-bare-bones dungeon should have the heart in the cave-in room behind a seal and the boss room be an expansion of the current chest loction.
No. 93014 ID: bd8b82

the heart and treasury can be in the same room, sure, but the boss room cannot be the treasury.
No. 93015 ID: b19c84

Hello! Yes it can. It's just high risk until a sealed off treasury can be made because if you lose once you can lose everything. That is all.
No. 93016 ID: aef4c1

How are dungeons usually lit?
We could perhaps disguise the Dungeon Heart, hiding it in a lamp structure, and putting in lamps elsewhere that incorporate similar-looking crystals. Then it would be perceived as background decoration, ignored unless the adventurers are of the take-the-nailed-down-stuff-too persuasion.
Assuming it's not absurdly obvious in mage-o-vision, of course.
No. 93018 ID: bd8b82

supposedly hearts get a LOT bigger once they are running on all cylinders.
No. 93030 ID: e114bc

Wait... wouldn't that mean the fragment in Deem's golem would get bigger too?
No. 93039 ID: ab7529

Golem-Deem gets all anime, has to walk around with a giant spear of crystal sticking through her.
No. 93043 ID: 2f4b71

>Enhance Crystals
No. 93067 ID: d4a543

I like the button/gate concept but I think it should be turned around. Dig out the collapsed area incrementally, adding successive puzzles with incorrect answers activating deadfall traps courtesy of the naturally unstable ceiling. Solving the final puzzle gives you a temporary water breathing reinforcement, and points the way to treasure down the other branch.

Heart chamber and treasury are combined, but if somebody takes too long fiddling with the chest or gets too greedy, reinforcement wears off and they drown on the way back. Possible tentacle ambush concealed in the silt just in case some adventurer tries to clean you out and happens to be drown-proof.

Passage to the valley is sealed off for living quarters, workshops, and respawn point, so work on expanding upward can proceed without interruption by adventurers.
No. 93576 ID: 13ff66

The Qualities of a Dungeon

Commerce: A place high in commerce sees more gold move through it and settle there. The highest in commerce is a ideal for gathering gold, rare items and other valuables.

Blood Rite: A place high in blood rite involves violent activity pleasing to the under-worldly powers. The strongest in blood rite is endlessly aflame with activity and the very air is constantly charged and pumping with power, an endless stream of challengers testing might and wit at the risk of life and limb. The weakest in blood rite are static, stagnant places that dull the senses and drain the will to fight. Ideal for producing mana-pulse.

Legitimacy: A place high in legitimacy is in good standing with the surrounding people, institutions and polities. The most legitimate is often a pillar of the community that people have come to depend on and cannot operate well without, the least legitimate considered a burden or threat to the surrounding area and will suffer attempts at it's destruction. High Legitimacy is ideal for long-term sustainability.

Security: explains itself and I'm getting tired.

Can y'all think of any else?
No. 93580 ID: bd8b82

each of the first three actually would improve the others. a place of challenge invites strong warriors with their loads of loot and cash. this promotes commerce which also goes to the nearby town where the challengers rest, stock and celebrate. this promotes the legitimacy as the town gathers others besides the challengers. having a support network in the town then makes a dungeon look more attractive to warriors due to people feeling they have a safety net nearby in the town.
No. 93588 ID: 2a7417

Given their ability to generate theoretically infinite amounts of precious metals from adventurers' activities, do you think dungeoneers have to deal with real life gold farmers? Perhaps they trade common currency for something less tangible, like labor, or a contract for your soul...

>having a captcha for your dungeon
No. 93607 ID: 13ff66

> each of the first three actually would improve the others.
I disagree, more strongly on some points than others.

> a place of challenge invites strong warriors with their loads of loot and cash.
I doubt an experienced dungeon crawler would carry more gold than required for a fountain Resurrection; he's looted enough dead bodies to know not to carry his life savings. Still, a valid point.

> this promotes commerce which also goes to the nearby town where the challengers rest, stock and celebrate.
True, but Deem is not the town, therefore she does not benefit from it as a 'dungeon' quality. Additionally, assuming dungeon-crawling is this person's primary source of income, that means they are spending treasure and gold looted from our dungeon.

> this promotes the legitimacy as the town gathers others besides the challengers. having a support network in the town then makes a dungeon look more attractive to warriors due to people feeling they have a safety net nearby in the town.
If this sense of security convinces young, poor, starry eyed men to trot off to the dungeon who do not come back, is it still good for our legitimacy? After these events repeat themselves a few dozen times you have a large group of angry widows and parents. +Bloodrite, -Legitimacy
No. 93608 ID: ab7529

What do you mean Deem is not the town? That's not thinking very big. If we invest in (or own) businesses in town, we'll make money off of them.

The dungeon attracts traveling adventurers, who spend bring in and gold in town, and bring spoils and raw materials from the dungeon back to town. The dungeon produces resources naturally, it harvests income from fallen adventures, and if it's smart, invests in the town to bleed gold from it as it grows. The town makes money supplying adventurers, and reselling / processing the materials harvested from the dungeon, and trades / pays gold to the dungeon for stuff it wants that's not easily harvested by adventures or as repayment for investments.

Done right, we can have a positive feedback loop between the town and dungeon, as they fuel each others growth. The earth pulse will feed it from one direction, and forgein trade / travelers from the other.
No. 93617 ID: ebcefd

>young, poor, starry eyed men to trot off to the dungeon who do not come back
If there is not an adventurer-loan system in place we will have to work with a town dweller to make one. Here's the basic concept:
1. Joe Noob wants to be an adventurer but needs some money for equipment and the very important rez-cash.
2. The loan agency places signs in town and on the path to the dungeons advertise Adventure Loans, "A no-down-payment method to give you the adventurer the essential ingredients to begin your quest for glory".
3. At the loan agency, Noob can sign a deal in which he gets a loan in return for an agreement to pay back an amount of loot based on the amount borrowed and to leave behind something curseable like a lock of hair or a small vial of blood as collateral.
4a. Noob dies before getting much/any loot and drops his rez-cash. The dungeon collects the rez-cash and gives the loan agency back a pre-agreed portion.
4b. Noob succeeds (or at least gets enough loot to turn a profit before dying or turning back). The loan agency gets its share of the loot from Noob and gives the dungeon back a pre-agreed portion.
4c. Noob takes the money and runs or profits from the dungeon and never repays. The dungeon and/or loan agency curses him.
No. 93627 ID: bd8b82

how rez system works, as well as how potions and magic work are probably known, even by the starry eyed young lads. a town simply wont care about an IDIOT getting killed for attacking a monster way stronger then them. a child? sure, a child is incapable of knowing better. but a married man is old enough to know the difference between a fight he can win and one he can't unless he is insane.
No. 93668 ID: 13ff66

try not to look at it with a modern lens. The frontal lobe (area affecting judgement) doesn't fully develop until age 25, and historically marrying age have been culturally accepted to be much younger than that. Of course magic didn't exist in these cultures, so that might lend so validity to your stance.
No. 93670 ID: ad7bba

Well also the fact that if the culture judges them old enough to marry, it's likely to judge them to be old enough to own the consequences to their actions and not be treated as a child in matters of life and death. What with the doing that re: marriage.

There's very clearly an established dungeoneering culture, and I can't imagine that being the case if people mob dungeon operations because young idiots die in them. We know dungeons run into trouble when they are careless or malicious with the monster generation, but we're pretty remote up on the mountain here, so that shouldn't be a huge concern.

Better qualities would be more simple descriptions: remoteness, difficulty, fame/reputation. Things like that.

I also don't believe dungeons are typically oriented towards or even particularly well-suited for anything like typical interaction with other settlements. They, and their denizens, seem reclusive by nature.
No. 93677 ID: 13ff66

Cut down on potential bad reputation, and enable us to slice off our losses when they pay us back? Brilliant. I would avoid cursing though, that stuff is tricky business. As Aesop said: 'Ill intentions, like chickens, always come home to roost.'

Rather, mark them with a far more terrible and legitimate affliction: Debt collectors. Make sure we have everything in writing, an enforceable contract, and sell the outstanding debt to third parties. That way we get paid, and the debt is handed off to other people who then can collect from the delinquent at their own risk and leisure: easy money.
No. 93681 ID: 3663d3

tracking curse. the person cursed shows up really obvious to anyone looking for them.
No. 93700 ID: 3663d3

why do people keep suggesting we imprison people? we fight people and beat them up. they die and resurrect. then they get more prepared. maybe buy an extra potion or something, and attack again a few days later. they don't try once then never try a dungeon again.
No. 93717 ID: 99cfa8

I don't know about anyone else but I wasn't suggesting we actually imprison people; rather, we make a section of dungeon that LOOKS like a prison (or just a medical facility), which we put ressed adventurers in, to let them escape and possibly come back when otherwise they would be permadead since they didn't have their own ressing.

The only reasons to make it a "prison" are theming, and concealing that we have resurrection. If we're not concerned about either of those then just ressing them and sending them on their way is fine too.
... Well, and we'd maybe get a little more earth-pulse racing from their "daring escape"s, but that's just gravy.

Of course if it is a "prison", that might have some PR issues, but not as bad as a real one would be.
No. 93718 ID: 99cfa8

And just to be clear, we would ONLY do this for adventurers that have no other means of resurrection and would therefore otherwise be dead dead.
No. 93719 ID: 5c9255

Since that interjection might have come across a little harsher than I intended, I realise there's a lot of decisions on dungeon running (dungeonomics?) yet to be made but things do seem to run away from the current decision point pretty easily.
No. 93723 ID: 2a7417

I imagine the Golemancer's Guild would be displeased with us for creating a Grey Clay end-of-world scenario, albeit impressed.
No. 93726 ID: 3663d3

the problem is how much does it cost to res someone on the spot? pretty sure we bind all the dungeon inhabitants to our resurrection matrix. not just snatch them from the ether without any prep time.
No. 93732 ID: ab7529

>> And holding people for ransom changes the whole tone of what we're doing.
>You'd have to ask Deem about that; better not to assume. Regardless of her reception to the idea, we can't pretend that we can do this without it being seen as an act of hostility by the neighboring populace. These sorts of decisions carry consequences. If we want to go ahead with this route that's alright, so long as we are prepared for their natural outcomes.
I really don't need Deem to tell me what tone I see our (potential) actions setting. And neither apparently do you, since you feel comfortable casting them as hostile and dangerous.

...also I think you rather missed the point, and are responding to a post expressing caution / skepticism as if it endorsed the idea in question.
No. 93791 ID: 13ff66

Formatting error. Tried to correct it but the password got lost. went to the IRC to ask an admin to correct it, still haven't gotten a hold of one yet. That's just what happens when you do a bunch of little edits by copy-pasting, deleting-posting. Sorry for the mixed message; I'll be sure to write it out in a WP before I post next time.
No. 93795 ID: 13ff66

That's what it was supposed to look like.

THIS is what it's supposed to look like.
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