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Sandy Song
6b2b68
Posting this log here, with LW's permission. It's a long read but I think it's a good read for some folks scratching their heads over ColonyGuard.
<Beakie> Seriously though they need to start using the radio together >_>
<Beakie> Oh you updated
<Beakie> Wait, so why hasn't Zane contacted Gore then? Or Pike to verify this stuff with the security clearance?
<LonelyWorld> Zane is busy shooting
<Beakie> Well yeah but she can shout and shoot
<LonelyWorld> Pike is incompetent
<Beakie> Oh well
<Beakie> Seriously, same frequency man
<Beakie> Ten people is nothing, I drive one of up to 42 trucks on a ride path all day every day and we have one frequency between us all
<LonelyWorld> the radios don't work that way
<Beakie> Why not?
<LonelyWorld> because it's inconvienient to thier proccess
<Beakie> No it isn't. It's more inconvienient this way. If the comms are only one on one or otherwise have to be directed, you have to repeat yourself over and over which is both bothersome and wastes precious time. If one person is allowed to talk at a time like on standard radio comms and ten people share the comms they can work it out like how soldiers do IRL just fine.
<Beakie> I mean, all on one frequency is the opposite of inconvienient.
<LonelyWorld> that's not how they have thier coms set up though
<Beakie> Why not?
<LonelyWorld> Astranians don't inovate in that sense
<LonelyWorld> they respect privacy
<LonelyWorld> even at the risk of thier own lives
<Beakie> This is extremely different.
<LonelyWorld> this extends to conversations as well
<Beakie> This is not saying they have to stay on the same frequency
<Beakie> But that there should be public and private channels at the very least if this is the case
<Beakie> Public, flip a switch and everyone hears it all
<Beakie> Private, directed at one person
<LonelyWorld> there is a public channel. but non of them are using it
<LonelyWorld> only general alerts are given that way
<Beakie> How? Couldn't what's-her-face hear the comms between Zane and Pike right there? Besides, there's a thousand suggestions to open public comms in the quest right now.
<LonelyWorld> it's hard to explain, but long story short, Astranian tech has a lot of short fallings
<Beakie> But this is kinda ridiculous
<LonelyWorld> maybe
<Beakie> I mean, an army that can't communicate can't get as far as they have
<LonelyWorld > they can communicate just fine
<Beakie> No, because they have to repeat themselves over and over and don't even use the public channel for general alerts right now, like "Zane is a traitor"
<LonelyWorld> Pike believes declaring Zane a traitor will not enhance the other squads ability to do thier job
<Beakie> But that's mind-bendingly retarded on two fronts! On one, Zane proved him wrong and that can be verified with Gore with a simple call, say on the public channel, and two, if he really believes that letting everyone know that would protect the other squads from further harm by giving them the knowledge of watch out for Zane, she's a liar.
<Beakie> They are refusing to communicate for their own safety and you say this is because of privacy? This isn't even their own opinions, this is business and duty, which is EXTREMELY DIFFERENT than one of them opening up a facebook or something. If this was idle talk and gossip, I could understand, but this isn't, this is their job, this is defense of an astranian vessel for which they are soldiers on, and they should know better than to use PRIVACY as an excuse to not tell other people key things that they don't need to keep private. Look...
<Beakie> I'm an incredibly private person, I let basically nobody know about my quests or art or anything that I like, but on the job, if there's a rhino in the road and my training tells me I should call it in because there's a rhino in the road, I don't not tell them there is a rhino in the road and let everyone else wonder why there's a holdup because it's some sort of deeply private matter.
<LonelyWorld> Astranians don't follow the same flow of information, it's hard to explain
<Beakie> Then enlighten me, dude.
<LonelyWorld> but they really don't feel the need to keep everyone informed, and the people don't feel the need to be informed
<Beakie> But that's counter-productive in every way.
<Beakie> And even if that is the case?
<Beakie> That should be the norm, and maybe these guys are the ones who break the norm and become successful.
<LonelyWorld> maybe they will be
<Beakie> Well I hope so
<LonelyWorld> but not from meta comments
<Beakie> It's not a meta comment.
<LonelyWorld> that bend reality
<Beakie> There's two posts in the thread that describe how it is not a meta comment.
<LonelyWorld> I'm really tired of argueing this
<Beakie> Just understand the frustration we're having with this.
<LonelyWorld> I can grasp the frustration vaguely, but I still have a very difficult time fully understanding the extent
<Beakie> Well
<Beakie> First, the same thing as earlier happened again, Zane got in trouble and we immediately switched to another person.
<Beakie> Actually, just lemme say this.
<Beakie> It feels like the quest is ignoring suggestions for the sole reason of making sure there is a bad end.
<Beakie> that may not be the case
<Beakie> But it feels that way
<LonelyWorld> I switched from Zane, because she'll be busy fighting robots for a while
<Beakie> And people are feeling robbed of their efforts because they post good ideas, but they get ignored for either reasons they were not told about previously or reasons that they just plain aren't even told about afterwards.
<Beakie> You don't think people want to see the robot fight? o.o
<LonelyWorld> and doesn't need reader help with that
<Beakie> We don't know that.
<LonelyWorld> I do
<Beakie> But we don't, and that's the thing. Just because you know something doesn't mean the readers do.
<Beakie> And now we can't suggest for her to contact gore over and over until she listens for once.
<Beakie> I mean, a lot of people are getting pissed off over suggestions being ignored. That's where the railroad comments come from.
<LonelyWorld> I understand that
<LonelyWorld> but it can't be helped
<Beakie> But it can
<LonelyWorld> those suggestions were impossible
<Beakie> No they weren't
<Beakie> At all
<LonelyWorld> yes they where
<Beakie> They have the ability, and maybe it makes Gore a bit rude but it's entirely, entirely possible for him to check on the other teams, even if it's against protocol.
<Beakie> That is in no way impossible.
<LonelyWorld> it is impossible
<Beakie> how is it impossible
<LonelyWorld> because Gore didn't interupt them earlier
<Beakie> What?
<LonelyWorld> at this point Zane is technically still argueing with Pike
<Beakie> Then this is another thing
<Beakie> There is no way for the players to know that this scene is in the "past"
<LonelyWorld> no there is not
<Beakie> Then we need to know these things!
<LonelyWorld> I didn't think it was important
<LonelyWorld> clearly I was mistaken
<Beakie> I mean... LW, I like your quests a lot, I really do, don't get me wrong. I think your characters are engaging and the world setting, sweet jesus the world setting is haunting and fantastic but the number one thing you need to work on is giving players information.
<LonelyWorld> it's like five minutes in the past, I didn't think it mattered
<LonelyWorld> and it doesn't matter
<LonelyWorld> those comments have stopped
<Beakie> The guns getting wet, telling hoft to switch on his shields, and everything since then and now where the players discover something only after something bad has happened out of seemingly nowhere because we didn't know about it before.
<LonelyWorld> I'm a huge fan of the kingsquest/spacequest games btw
<Beakie> For now. They're going to resume as soon as the bug is dealt with if you don't have Zane contact him first.
<Beakie> LW, we don't have infinite retries here.
<LonelyWorld> I know
<Beakie> We can't wander around in the desert and figure out "Okay, right has the scorpion, left has the boot we need to drink water from"
<Beakie> We have one shot
<LonelyWorld> yup
<Beakie> Which is not how kings quest works
<LonelyWorld> I know
<LonelyWorld> that's why I make the quest easier
<Beakie> So we can't operate like King's Quest, especially since the people in the quest are supposed to know what they are dealing with.
<Beakie> Like their own equipment.
<LonelyWorld> anyways, I do my best not too punish things you had no way of predicting
<Beakie> ...
<Beakie> LW, dude, you're going to have to try harder then. Just for the sake of the quests.
<LonelyWorld> I'll see what I can do
<Beakie> But really
<Beakie> Just
<Beakie> Information up front
<Beakie> We can't experiment.
<Beakie> We have to know upfront.
<LonelyWorld> Sorry
<LonelyWorld> no can do
<Beakie> It would be great if we could experiment
<Beakie> What? Why not?
<LonelyWorld> deal with it
<Beakie> Dude
<Beakie> Why? There's no reason for that.
<LonelyWorld> I'm sorry, I do all I can
<LonelyWorld> berating me for hours is not going to change that
<Beakie> No, no, that's not addressing this. That's not what we're talking about here.
<LonelyWorld> I forget to mention stuff, that's just how I am
<Beakie> I'm not berating. I'm trying to talk to you and have a discussion.
<Beakie> LW
<Beakie> you say this stuff like it can never get better.
<Beakie> Like you can't improve
<Beakie> And dude
<Beakie> That's just not true. I'm not saying you're terrible or bad or even mediocre, you have some of the best quests on the board
<LonelyWorld> it can get better, but these kind of debates do not help
<Beakie> But there's always room for improvement, and please don't shun any advice to get better. It's critique if anything, and that's how people really become great.
<LonelyWorld> a quick suggestion is helpful
<LonelyWorld> a long rant is just tiresome
<Beakie> But how else could we come to these conclusions?
<LonelyWorld> what conclusion?
<LonelyWorld> I hope youv'e learned something from all this
<LonelyWorld> because I'm still at square one
<Beakie> brb
<Beakie> phone
<Beakie> OkT
<Beakie> Okay
<Beakie> But look, this is the thing
<Beakie> Why do you say you're still at square one?
<LonelyWorld> because I haven't learned anything
<LonelyWorld> from this
<Beakie> Haven't you? I mean, you understand better why people are frustrated, right?
LonelyWorld> not really I already knew that
<Beakie> Well, you understand that people need more info, right?
<LonelyWorld> people have been bitching at me about that since CQ1
<Beakie> And it's not a "I forget sometimes" thing. Just when something is introduced, describe everything about it.
<Beakie> So try to make it better!
<LonelyWorld> no I introduce an object it's the players job to ask what it does
<Beakie> Isn't that redundant?
<LonelyWorld> no
<Beakie> If they're going to ask it anyways you might as well take that step out
<LonelyWorld> also you should bring up this sort of thing in /questdis/
<LonelyWorld> because they won't ask
<LonelyWorld> I'm not going to describe every object
<Beakie> You're going to get bombarded with this sort of thing now.
<Beakie> But then how will we know what is important and what is not?
<LonelyWorld> I've already stated this
<Beakie> I mean
<Beakie> Didn't people already ask for Zane's inventory and her security card wasn't listed?
<LonelyWorld> I think they asked for gear
<Beakie> Still, inventory should have been included if that's separate, they had no way of knowing there was a physical card
<LonelyWorld> alright this topic is getting pointless
<LonelyWorld> you have a complaint bring it up in /questdis/
<Beakie> I'm just saying I think you are approaching this the wrong way. You're telling me here that they need to specifically say everything yet you've been continuously ignoring suggestions for reasons unknown to players and you've apparently been forgetting to divulge information from what you've said here.
<Beakie> Putting absolutely everything on manual doesn't work if manual isn't an option in the first place.
<Beakie> Especially since you take it off manual to go do other things when you decide the character doesn't need player help
<Beakie> I mean do you understand the duality of this?
<LonelyWorld> no
<LonelyWorld> I have no Idea what your trying to say
<Beakie> Are you just saying that because you don't want to talk anymore or do you honestly understand none of this?
<LonelyWorld> both
<Beakie> Alright.
<Beakie> Do you mind if I post this log on /questdis/ then?
<LonelyWorld> I really don't get half of what you say
<LonelyWorld> sure
<Beakie> Okay. Maybe others can explain it better.
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