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758668 No. 758668 ID: bfb318

>"Likol! Are you trying to destroy your eyes in here or something?"
"Yes. They've been repairing, and my glasses with the thinner lens has a broken frame. You've brought good news?"
>"New spreadsheet software!"
"I just got used to this one."
>"This one will take a tenth of the time to learn. It's UI isn't goddamn nuts. Its mini-windows don't even glitch out and manifest in coordinates outside of the display monitor!"
"That's a plus, I suppose. What would really be nice is if that construction crew outside of the building would finish up."

The hive mentally chimes in to my question, although my hive's thoughts intermingles with my own to the point that they feel like my own thoughts as well.

Don't be so optimistic. The construction never ends.

"What is it for? Are we going to replenish our hive numbers?"
>"I... no. Not yet. They're building a... zoo, or climate hall something. The arkots need more space, too, and they've taken a hit to their health without an appropriate biome."

80% of our home is in disrepair, if not completely abandoned. I miss the old lounge.

>"Yeah, yeah, we were supposed to replace arkots, but that was when Vanski needed manpower, not brains. There's a shift."

Funny how now that technology is ubiquitous, we need more muscle.

Muscle? In the form of Arkots?
There's good muscle mass when it's 40 arkots.

>"Just focus on the new spreadsheet! We're on edge enough without your old guys drinking all that depresso espresso."
"Fine, as long as you never call it that again."
Expand all images
No. 758669 ID: bfb318
File 147920137651.png - (47.57KB , 800x800 , 2.png )

>"... have you not slept?"
"We have to look good."
>"And you look like shit." Not even in uniform. "Come chill with some of us. But not before you shower."
"I'd rather not disturb their work while dodging mine."
>"You think out of a couple hundred hivemates, there's not a single one on break?"
"There shouldn't be."
>"... how far have you gotten untangling the raw ring shell code?"

Low blow, Rihhin.
No. 758670 ID: 398fe1

Have you checked the logs for any morse code recently?
No. 758671 ID: b412df

Oh hey Likol, what's that you're looking at there? Also, out of curiosity, what's the date today?
No. 758675 ID: bfb318
File 147920709892.png - (107.82KB , 800x800 , 3.png )

>What's that you're looking at there?
The ring shell data, which is just about the only data that we can see as output. Once every three days I get a couple of error messages to help unravel the whole thing.

It feels like grunt work. We're confident that my mentor, Dr. Arza Fletch, would pay his life savings away to get the information I've gained, because he could make breakthroughs with it and see connections between objects. Objects that I'm not even seeing in the first place, let alone the connections. Compared to him, I'm a code monkey. The unprocessed data is wasted on me.

>Have you checked the logs for any morse code recently?
Morse code... has been taught to the Ring Shell, but trying to get the RS to use the tool is a whole other can of worms. It has never done this before despite decades of effort, despite that some of those AI's that make it to the RS should know morse code and how to use it.

Dr. Fletch has gotten cagey with his CAI tools after giving us the ability to make CAIs on our own. His program is able to take the ring shells native data, which is an impervious mess of tangles, and say how long the cycle took both in virtual time and real time, and how many AIs made it to the end. I wish he would have taught me how to make my own programs, but I wonder if I would have understood it even if he taught me. The man is... eccentric and not socially cunning, but in this field, I feel like I've been taught by a once in a millenium genius.

On the other topic, things added to the RS, like morse code, will stand out easily even while mountains of data are generated around it per second.

It's been a while, but a new cycle just ended on this CAI project. I don't want to start a new one at an odd time, so I kill a few minutes to do a search for morse code. As always and as expected, there is no data that fits a morse code message.

Rihhin broadcasts I should take a break after starting the next one, then leaves.

I go and wait by the supercomputer's terminal.



1:59... wait for it....

2:00. Nice and even timestamp.

>What's the date today?
On hitting the button, I receive an answer as it logs the start time.

April 16th, AW 131, 2:00:00 PM
CAI generation attempt No. 3,119 has begun.

I've nearly been at this for 30 years.

The date stamp is fed to my desktop, before the individual AI samples begin generating. In an attempt to tell me all the IDs of one trillion entities, the monitor turns into a spastic green glow that does a better job of illuminating the room than telling me anything. It outputs 50 lines 240 times per second as per the monitor refresh rate. And even at that rate, the monitor skips nearly 14 million others that are generated before it can wait for its next frame to display a new 50.

There's no point to watching it, anyway. All the work is done on the side laptop that reads off the supercomputer's data.

Which either amounts to dissecting the ring shell, which I feel like I would have more progress finding out how a neumono brain works by dissecting myself. Or, perusing the extracted data from the previous 4 AI's that got through the stages, and see if any of their data can be linked with the error messages.

Or, I reluctantly admit, a break is an option.
No. 758678 ID: 398fe1

So do you know about the glitchy emergent AI in the system brought about by your stabilizing AI interacting with Rihhin's corrupting AI? How many times has that emergent AI reached the ring shell? How many times has your stabilizing AI's failsafe been triggered?

Hey, what sort of backups are there for the AIs? Are there backups for the two custom AIs? Even for the emergent AI?

Take a look at cycle 3118's final 4 AIs. Have you noticed any patterns as to which AIs reach the end most often? At the very least you can judge which AIs seem to have the biggest advantage overall.
No. 758679 ID: 82c876

I'd say have a quick look at the AIs then have a break, ideas might strike when you're not actively thinking about it.

Aside from research is there a purpose for this system, I thought there already was a CAI made? Also, what are archcycles? What modifications / injected programs have been made to the system compared with how it was originally?
No. 758680 ID: 094652

Of course, the test offers survival to the AIs that are skilled enough to jump through the hoops. It doesn't pick up on AIs that are smart enough to hide themselves and troll the other idiots scramble to the finish line.

Connect the processor to a small, well-contained bot. And by well-contained, I mean you literally lock it inside a triple-chained iron box with one tiny hole for the USB port. And maybe some pretty pictures of the surface as a lure. See if you can trap the ghost in the machine. Even if you don't expect anything, what else were you planning to do today?

When was the last time you saw Azra? You're way below his level, but his students aren't. Maybe you could network with the other nutjobs?
No. 758684 ID: db0da2

Assuming the attempt numbers line up accurately with the cycle numbers, which they might not, considering Likol just said 4 AI have already been generated, but we were only ever able to find evidence of one, this is really bad news. This is all happening before Polo has arrived, which means one of three things; Polo shows up within the next 3 days, Alison and friends never make it out, or they do make it out, but the Salikai manages to subjugate them. Even if Polo does show up within the next 3 days, the Salikai still has control of the CAI after the timeskip, which does not bode well for the contestants.

So what are you actually expected to be doing down here, if the output you're getting is so useless? Do you mean 4 CAI, or 4 AI in one CAI?
No. 758685 ID: 3abd97

Of the two, I'd say looking at the four AIs might be more fruitful than looking at the ring shell, again.

Your hivemate is right, tho. You should take a break. As much as it galls you, you work better after one.

>April 16th, AW 131, 2:00:00 PM
Four years before The Intermission and/or Polo Quest.
No. 758697 ID: 3d2d5f

Maybe you need some cuddlehive style R&R?

What's the point of this research project, besides trying to understand how CAI's function? Is there something you're trying to accomplish?

>"You think out of a couple hundred hivemates, there's not a single one on break?"
>couple hundred
...Polo and Korli's best estimate of the Science Hive's population in the last Polo Quest thread was somewhere the thirties. They're due to lose a lot of people in a few short years.

Things with Vanski must get a lot worse, and in a hurry, not gradually over decades like I was expecting. They might not even be enslaved yet.

No. 758698 ID: bfb318
File 147921787062.png - (21.35KB , 800x800 , 4.png )

>Do you mean 4 CAI, or 4 AI in one CAI?
4 individual AIs make it out of a single CAI generation process. Three from the standard stage area, and a fourth one from a custom procuder of administration. They don't form a CAI. They just get sent through the ring shell, then rejected and sent back to the beginning with the rest in a new cycle.

The active CAI we have has countless AI, and although it runs on the same platform as what's generating another CAI, they are separated.

>So do you know about the glitchy emergent AI
I know that the AI count has become higher than one trillion. I believe that is from the simulated CAI battles within drawing contestants out. It seems like they're stable, and no different than other contestants once they're integrated in with the others.

>Hey, what sort of backups are there for the AIs?
There's really not any. We have backups of what is used to generate the AIs, including the custom AIs by Rihhin and myself. As for the AIs that have their unique experiences and exist currently, that's stored within the blocks and we have no known way to get them out.

The closest we have is my stabilizer, but that's not a backup, that's just a backup home for the AI's themselves in case the first gets destroyed.

>How many times has your stabilizing AI's failsafe been triggered?
The stabilizer has definitely taken hits before. There's been a few times where its presence with the other contestants is completely eliminated, or contaminated by Rihhin's corruptor.

The native stage area for the AIs has never been contaminated enough for my stabilizer to need to serve as a new home for them. Which is good, I suppose, since I'm not even 100% sure it will work.

>Take a look at cycle 3118's final 4 AIs. Have you noticed any patterns as to which AIs reach the end most often?
Every AI has a persistent ID that perpetuates through each attempt, so yes, we have compiled data on the AIs that tend to repeatedly make it through, and what their values were on their generation for the cycle, along with all of their experiences.

And it's a disaster making sense of it. They all just have one big long string that not just has to be read in a linear form like DNA, but up and down by lining it on top of itself in some kind of loop.

All of the AI sent in has been made by post-empirical algorithms, but it's all turned into unreadable garbage by the RS, as with everything else. I'd call it encryption, but it's the real data itself presented in an obtuse way, not some code that scrambles the data.

Despite that, we do have other programs that can reliably extract parts of those strings, namely the ID, and many statistics about what kind of AI they are, personality wise.

I look at the last 4 who made it through.

ID Numbers...

I recognize all of them right off the bat. I know very little about them, otherwise. Although I have variables on what make up their personality, it's very difficult to imagine what kind of people they would act like if they became a CAI. I've tried to map it out using an emulator before, but it's almost certainly an inaccurate representation of them. There's still missing data on them, and randomating those unknown variables changes them drastically.

Plus, I can't become attached.

>Have you noticed any patterns as to which AIs reach the end most often?
Most of them have a tendency to look out for themselves, but being a loner severely diminishes their chances. They look out for others to a degree, and there's a little golden zone of an ideal amount, I've seen. Look out less, and they probably get killed. Look out more and their chances of making it to the end slowly diminish. Or I'd like to say, except that one contestant that's made it near 50 times with such an extreme level of external care. Either get to a point and suddenly the survival rate skyrockets, or it's an anamoly.

All these variables interact in a complex web, so it's likely other factors that play in. Trying to simplify single aspects that lead to survival is a good way to miss the real picture. But that's one I think I've pinned down.

>What are archcycles?
A hard reboot to completely clean out the system and revert everything. Some things, like contestant IDs, perpetuate between cycles. Virtually nothing perpetuates between archcycles.

>Connect the processor to a small, well-contained bot.
It would be interesting to see if having a side box would interact with the CAI generation process, but aside from messing with the experiment, I don't have means to procure such an advanced object that would be able to interact with the CAI like that.

I start a few procedures to at least simplify cycle 3118's final ring shell output so I have a chance of reading it, and decide I'll take a break.

>What's the point of this research project, besides trying to understand how CAI's function? Is there something you're trying to accomplish?
By understanding how a CAI is made, and being able to adjust it, we'd be able to create CAIs that are better suited to certain tasks, and even modify the AI itself.

In Vanski's case, I suppose he would want a CAI that is obedient and loyal to himself.

Aside from that, if we were able to translate how the Ring Shell works to something we understand, we would be able to create new CAI blocks, and perhaps learn about the tech of ancient belenos... Vanski's power and clout would go through the roof and, I would hope, so would our hive's. I miss having a big hive.
No. 758700 ID: bfb318
File 147921788806.png - (38.77KB , 800x800 , 5.png )

>When was the last time you saw Arza?
It was... november of 109. That was the last personal meeting. We've spoken since, but it's been through tense, sterilized messages through various channels. Even when he gives us new software, it's because Vanski cut another deal with him. Dr. Fletch wants data I've mined, but if he got it... he would realize what we've done to get it, and denounce any business with us. We can't do that forever, but the years are just going by faster and faster. One of us is going to die first, possibly before the secret is out.

>I thought there already was a CAI made?
There is, and it's active at all times. Which is why our quantum supercomputer, and my workplace, is an extremely secured compartment in the complex. When I enter, I must shower, out of fear that the CAI could brush me with nanomachines and get into my desktop or some other insane plan. They cannot be allowed to mine their own data.

>What else were you planning to do today?
Anything but take a break.

But that's what I'm doing.

I guess I needed to pick up supplies anyway for my work compartment's kitchen. It's been a week since I've left it, and it's the fact that my hive is in empathic range that I don't go crazy staying that long in there.

Thankfully, leaving is a much less arduous procedure than entering.

>Maybe you could network with his students?
I'd love to try, but he doesn't take many on as their students. At most he'll give people the tools to learn on themselves, but private tutilage is rare. Plus, it might be seen as undermining Dr. Fletch himself, and the ramifications would be bad.

There is one student I heard about. A child, really, that he took an interest in. I know nothing about her, but she's not in the crime ring, and is essentially off limits. Perhaps someday I'll meet her and see if perhaps she can teach me a thing or two, since she'll probably learn a lot more than I am just... grunt working.

I go into the main kitchen to get some food that isn't instant. Moving around I get a better idea of my hive's mood. Things are content, or at least what we've come to consider acceptable, but there is still stress. There are looming deadlines for progress in various fields, and a bad few decades have hindered the overall happiness we've had in the past. The medical department, especially, is in a bad spot, and lowers the overall mood.

Ohhh myyyy god!
It's Likol!
How many months has it been?!

Markie, an aspiring geologist. One of the few that doesn't wear her goggles all the time.
Korli, a generalist that hasn't finished general education. Possible interest in biology.
Reon is the same as Korli, and has taken an interest in my field. I hope he can pick up the torch before my cynical mindset steers him away.

All bubbly, recent generations.


They all say hello back in unison and start getting me food. There's still a respect for elders in this hive, despite all things. It's completely unnecessary. Surrounding hivemates don't come to join, but are pleased I've taken a break. As soon as I get this far, I have to abandon any wishes to cut the break short and go back, unless I mar the present mood.

The three hivemates sit across from me, expecting small talk, but not wanting to initiate it.
No. 758705 ID: 211d83

Ask them how there projects are going. Unwinding will help you relax your mind.

Plus maybe something one of them is working on will help inspire you.
No. 758707 ID: 3d2d5f

>ID numbers
Geeze the system person doesn't even have a tag or prefix to distinguish them. That makes sorting the data harder (although for all we know those are all system IDs. The contestant slots could have been taken by system people who deserted).

Awww. They look up to you. That's cute.

Indulge your younger hivemates with some attention. They'll enjoy it, and it'll be good for you emotionally.

Ask them about their work, lives, schooling, what they're up to? People like it when people take an interest in them, especially people they look up to.

(How backed up are you after months hiding away in a room? Maybe you should indulge in "getting attention" from one of the bubbly energetic younger generation, too. At least one of them would probably jump at it).
No. 758708 ID: 850f11

Spend some time with your family. Focusing to much on work will make it harder for you to come up with any great ideas.

So go talk about there work and sleep around a bit and take a few hours or a day off.

How much programming knowledge do you have? You said Arza never taught you how to make programs but you obviously have made your own stuff over the years to peer at this data.

Your next project should be a program to lock on to anything using morse code and identify it so you can transfer that specific Ai out onto a test partion.

With the rate the sim moves if you are not ready for a communication breakthrough the ai doing it could get destroyed as part of the culling process they go through before you could grab it.

Once you had a Ai that had figured out how to talk to the Ring shell you could communicate to it and learn whats going on in there. And maybe have it help you translate the data.
No. 758709 ID: 1807a4

Find out how each of there projects/schooling is going.

Then go relax and have some fun and go get laid.

Will help you focus on work later.
No. 758716 ID: 285fca

Ask them for the hive gossip. Keep up on what's going on with everyone else, is anyone having any personal problems? Any special relationships formed between anyone lately? And personal triumphs?

While you're out here, maybe you should check in on the CAI, as well. AIs though they are, they have wants and desires and affections. If they have any little harmless requests, you could try help them. Making a little personal connection costs very little and could have good benefits.

Speaking of benefit, I'm sure a cynical survivor such as yourself has always felt secure having little emergency caches, countermeasures and alarms scattered around near where you live and work, as a matter of those habits that led to you being a survivor. While you're out for once, perhaps you should check in on some you've set up. I'm sure you've shared them with other members of your hive, but it doesn't hurt.

And perhaps you should check in with the medical department before you go back to work, if they're unhappy. Perhaps they'll benefit from a little wisdom.
No. 758726 ID: fa4709

You should ask them how things are going. Keeping yourself holed up isnt good for you, empathy or not. Neumono are highly social creatures, you'll feel better if you relax for a couple minutes.
No. 758764 ID: 398fe1

>There's been a few times where its presence with the other contestants is completely eliminated
Have you noticed anything strange happen during those cycles? Or the cycle afterwards?
>or contaminated by Rihhin's corruptor
Have you noticed anything strange happen during that cycle or the cycle afterwards?
>ID numbers
Wait, those don't go past a trillion. Assuming it starts at 0, that number of digits gives exactly one trillion combinations. What ID numbers are used for the extra AIs? Does it just slap another digit on there? If so, which AI is 1000000000000? I suppose that would either be the corruptor or the stabilizer... What about 1000000000002? The first AI to (presumably) escape a simulated CAI battle?
(damn, it occurs to me that we probably can't determine what the first Glitcher's ID is. At best he showed up on cycle 2, but contestants could have escaped a CAI Fight simulation on cycle 1. Did Glitcher and Rulekeep check out cycle 1 and 2 to confirm if there were any escapees or who the first Glitcher was? It's also possible he doesn't have an ID...)

Have there been any cycles where less than 4 AIs were recorded having made it past RS?
No. 758800 ID: 3abd97

I'd presume the AIs from CAI battles have different number formats? Or if we assume those are all systems IDs (say, Sevener and two allies deserted and won contestant side, and the last number if for the last admin) like >>758707 suggested, then it works (since there were always less system-side participants than contestant side).

...or maybe there are headers or leading zeros stripped by the interface. (Or maybe it's in hexadecimal and we managed to by pure luck get 4 entries without any letter digits).

We already know the contest supports multiple simultaneous instances of people with the identical IDs, but somehow distinguishes them, too. That means there's cycle and/or instance identifiers stripped out too.
No. 758803 ID: 90f3c0

If Reon does enter your field, would you be responsible for teaching him? I imagine with such a low population, something like an apprenticeship would be necessary for more specialized education.

Tell him you hope that seeing you become so absorbed in your work that your hive is shocked just to see you getting lunch doesn't put him off the job.
No. 758810 ID: 398fe1

...oh! Have there been any IDs which have showed up past the RS only once? Or have had seemingly corrupted data? You said you could see the AI data and partially emulate it. Were there any AIs that didn't emulate correctly?

Also, the CAI doesn't have access to the block's data, but do they know of its existence? I mean how is the salikai keeping the CAI under control?
No. 758826 ID: bfb318
File 147925230404.png - (11.07KB , 800x800 , 6.png )

>If Reon does enter your field, would you be responsible for teaching him?
Yes, although I hope, then, that Dr. Fletch would start making visits to him.

>How much programming knowledge do you have? You said Arza never taught you how to make programs
I think I'm a decent programmer. I have made software in the past for personal use. What Dr. Fletch didn't show me is how to code for this, which requires a deeper knowledge of the RS than I have. To code for it would still be possible for me, but it would take me far too long to do on my own, nevermind the bug testing to make sure my output isn't misleading me.

>Program to lock on to anything using morse code
We have that. Anything that's been added to the RS post-empire is much easier to isolate.

>So you can transfer that specific Ai out onto a test partion.
That's trickier. AI in the ring shell is spread out, and it's amazing that it works at all.

>If you are not ready for a communication breakthrough the ai doing it could get destroyed as part of the culling process they go through before you could grab it
The RS doesn't destroy any of the AIs. Either the AI remains intact, or it's already part of the ring shell and all over the place. Either way, we keep records of the ring shell output at all times, even if we can't do much with it.

Did I... yes. I habitually put on my watch. This will send me an alert if the RS is detected doing anything out of the norm, like morse code, or some catastrophic error occurs. Of course, with our paranoia of the CAI trying to study itself, it's not a direct wireless connection, it's more like my lab will generate a specific alarm noise, and a node outside of it will activate and then send a ping to my watch.

There's scheduled diagnostics on it to make sure it's working, which must be done, as it has never activated a single time. I still put it on whenever I leave, anyways, as to not do so would be to give up on the idea anything will ever happen.

The CAI working on my data would go so much faster. Knowing that makes me feel I'm wasting my life here. I don't know why this hasn't been done by another faction that owns a CAI, even by accident. Dr. Fletch just told me 'they can't' and didn't elaborate other than a hint that the belenos empire would never allow something like a CAI have the ability to self replicate.

>Talk with the CAI
It's awkward. I'm essentially the caretaker of their usurper, or disease.

>What ID numbers are used for the extra AIs?
Numbers over a trillion.

There's just no leading zeroes in the numbers.

>What was the first AI to (presumably) escape a simulated CAI battle?
I don't even know for sure. It's tough to find such a specific fact like that, and I don't believe that's significant.

>Have there been any cycles where less than 4 AIs were recorded having made it past RS?
No AI has ever made it past the RS itself, but there's always 4 AIs that at least make it to the RS before going back.

Even if there aren't 4 AIs that make it to the end of the stages, then the RS will simply choose the 4 that got closest.

None of them have been corrupted. The RS would bar any corrupted AIs, I believe.

>Were there any AIs that didn't emulate correctly?
Although they are almost certainly inaccurate, they were always at least functional.

>Also, the CAI doesn't have access to the block's data, but do they know of its existence? I mean how is the salikai keeping the CAI under control?
It's unlikely that the CAI doesn't know the basic structure of CAI blocks. They also know that we're running tests on their own blocks, and that if we don't manually fail an attempt cycle, the 4 AIs will make it past the RS and override them. They don't have control over it, so if we all suddenly disappeared, the CAI would not last long.

Aside from that, wires from the quantum computer go down to Vanski's own room where the CAI blocks themselves have been inserted. If he wanted to, he can simply unplug the CAI. I'm sure he has other failsafes, as well.

In other words, if the CAI misbehaves at all, we can simply wipe the blocks clean of them, and regenerate a new CAI on the emptied blocks within a few days. The CAI blocks are not replacable, but the CAI is.
No. 758827 ID: bfb318
File 147925231661.png - (16.75KB , 800x800 , 7.png )

>You should check in with the medical department, give some wisdom
I doubt I could give them anything. They've already missed their deadline.

"How are your projects going?" And why are you not working on them?

>"I'm leaving some fluid on rocks to see how well they melt down, and if the fluid seeps through the rock if it's contained to the outside. If things go well, we can reshape the caverns without using pickaxes and other impact-heavy tools." Markie says. "I'm waiting on that, so I'm here to rest my head."
>"I'm waiting for my computer to process some propulsion simulations." says Reon. I could be doing other stuff, but... "I've been told to focus on that project and not anything else! But since I'm waiting on that stuff, I don't have anything to do."

Sometimes I feel that way too, but with autonomy, I can choose to do other things to busy myself. I make sure he understands my sentiments that me rarely leaving my room is my own choice, and I'm not forced to stay in there for days at a time.

Korli dreads her turn.

>"My head is just full."
"Stretch it out."


>"In a bit sir."


>"I really need the rest please!"
"Fine. Any personal problems?"
None here that really compare to the others.

>Sleep around
>How backed up are you?
>Get laid
I'm fine.
You can be more than fine!

The three here are giving off various thoughts, and are culling their thoughts about me needing a shower.
No. 758828 ID: bfb318
File 147925232814.png - (65.02KB , 800x800 , 8.png )

Once they fail not thinking about it, my will is easily superceded by my hive's will. I end in the showers, and we end up taking care of each other's physiology. I ask one member to send a request to Momu to watch the workroom somewhere along the way.

...how long has that surveillance camera been in this shower?
About one week. There are not many blind spots left out of your lab.
What of trust?

An awkward silence when I wonder that.

We realize just how tired I am, but I'm more stubborn about going to bed at 3 PM. I'm unsure what else to do other than either go back to my station, or keep catching up with more details of the outside world and my hive.

They're sensing that I'm not just tired in a sleepy sense, but in a work sense. We've been working more and more, and getting less and less for it. We used to make things, start to finish. Now it seems like we're more of a glorified outsource lab.

The hive reminds me that we don't have the tools or infrastructure to make many products, so we have to sell our research to see products come of it. Vanski doesn't seem to appreciate us so much, now. Much of our work sucks our funding with no real gains. Like my own, thus far.
No. 758830 ID: e6e9af


Time to make up a wild story about how not leaving the workroom is entirely critical to ensuring that the emergent AI and the CAI do not learn of the outside world and as a result turn into some kind of vengeful super intelligent ultra-bot that tries to become real by killing everyone...

... no, wait, that would make things worse.

Ask them about their ... hobbies! Surely Korli has some interests of interest.
No. 758832 ID: 6d3d3d

Begin discussion about how your black-box work has been bottlenecked due to the lack of sedimentary output during the selection process and how a tiny but of explanation on how the game works could cause your research to rocket forward. You have vibrations in the code but there's no interpretation for them, and they're likely marred by sufficient interference. Any brainstorming at this point could advance your work.
No. 758836 ID: 398fe1

>the 4 AIs will make it past the RS and override them.
I thought you said a CAI is made of countless AIs? How do 4 AIs make a CAI?

Any room for independent projects?
No. 758838 ID: 595d54

Pat Korli on the head.
No. 758839 ID: 3abd97

Poor Korli just wanted the chance to goof off and maybe do a little hero worship and she's getting asked serious questions.

Also come on Likol, you made that socializing more a serious performance review! You gotta lighten it up a little, take it easy on the kids. Tone down the intensity.

>We realize just how tired I am, but I'm more stubborn about going to bed at 3 PM. I'm unsure what else to do other than either go back to my station, or keep catching up with more details of the outside world and my hive.
I personally your for spending time with your hive. You're exhausted, physically and emotionally, and the distraction will help. You could be having more fun (hint hint), and afterwards you'll be better able to deal with your problems from fresh angles (both your research, and how to improve your fraying relationship with Vanski / come up with useful applications for him).

Korli seems like she's enjoying herself, at least.

>so we have to sell our research to see products come of it.
To who? Doesn't most the outside world not know your hive exists? Doesn't Vanski not want to share your advances with the outside world?

>Vanski doesn't seem to appreciate us so much, now.
Maybe you need to think of something new he will. Or some way to combine something people are already using into something he'll appreciate.

Application is different from pure research, after all. Maybe it's worth reviewing what we have on the fire, later, when you're rested.
No. 758840 ID: 898ae2

Yes, do.
No. 758841 ID: 211d83

Any idea how things got like this? Is the Salikai paranoia warranted due to something that happened?

Or is external events just making them more worried about discovery?

Either way spend some time just relaxing with your hive and maybe seeing some of the other experiments going on right now. Might help you unwind a bit.
No. 758842 ID: 285fca

>Vanski doesn't seem to appreciate us so much, now.

You should take steps to make sure his appreciation isn't what you're relying on. Quietly. I'm sure you have already, being smart, but if there are things like cameras going up all over, then it'll be hard to set up any more, and not as hard as it's going to get.
No. 758853 ID: b412df

Have you tried injecting data into the system and see if there's any measurable response over a number of cycles? If I remember right Dr Fletch put his image into one the CAI battles, and there was something about a bunch of photographs or other data?

Also, regarding the missing data on the AIs you get from the ring shell, have you tried to emulate them without filling those sections in? Knowing how weird old empire tech can be that could be intentional.
No. 758858 ID: e22b1d

Hmm it seems like you might have been stuck in your lab for to long. I think you had better spend a few hours finding out why things have gotten so bad that there are cameras in the showers now.

As for the Cai just make sure that you have stuff in place to safely quarantine and talk to any Ai's that might start using morse code. The likelihood of it happening soon is small but as long as your systems are in place you can let your watch alert you.

That being said get a secondary notification set up other than the watch. Something secret. If you don't trust the Cai with its own stuff then that watch is a weak point. You take it out into Cai controlled area's and what if they can block your signal? Maybe they don't want you to find out if a breakthrough happens because it would mean they were even more replaceable.
No. 758866 ID: db0da2

What was the corrupting AI for in the first place?

DO NOT Korli is a BAD GIRL with no work ethic, she doesn't deserve head pats.

>I'm more stubborn about going to bed at 3 PM.
Why? Is it not healthier to sleep when you're tired and wake when you're rested?

Vanski doesn't trust you anymore, this implies that you can't trust him. Do you have plans for his sudden but inevitable betrayal? Perhaps you can give yourself the option to allow the CAI to study itself?
No. 758868 ID: 595d54

1. You are objectively wrong
2. Being more repressive won't improve anything, any possible bad-girl syndrome is entirely because of unreasonably strict upbringing.
3. Korli deserves all head pats.
No. 758870 ID: b2db3f

Likol you suck at small talk. When we said ask them about there project we meant to see what they were excited about and offer input and encouragement. Actually learn something about them.

Not grill them one by one about what they are working on and why its not finished yet.

Get the grump out of your system and be nicer to the young up and coming science generation. Enjoy your time in the shower with some cute girls for god's sake.
No. 758874 ID: bfb318
File 147925886780.png - (14.16KB , 800x800 , 9.png )

>I thought you said a CAI is made of countless AIs? How do 4 AIs make a CAI?
Our active CAI, and all other CAIs I've heard about, comprise of countless. But we can tweak the settings and make a CAI with only 4. It's just not as valuable, and the only reason we do it is to better isolate cause and effects. If we were to make a CAI out of these cycles, we would use the standard procedure with no hard limit on AIs.

>What if the cai can block your watch signal?
The watch is on a CAI sensor network, meaning that while it's not capable of stopping a CAI from interfering, there's no way a CAI can tamper with the network without revealing that it's entering the network.

A secondary system is in place. While more rudimentary, the alarm noise that will happen if a special event occurs will be heard by nearby neumono, and news will reach me, if just a bit slower than the watch would.

>Perhaps you can give yourself the option to allow the CAI to study itself?
I do not trust the CAI with this power.

>Do you have plans for his sudden but inevitable betrayal?
There were some plans, but somehow, Vanski and his children seemed to neutralize any security we put in place.

>What was the corrupting AI for in the first place?
Normally while making a CAI, no error messages occur, but with custom AI that Rihhin made jostles the attempt in ways that generate one. That's its purpose, so that I have something to cross reference.

>Tone down the intensity
Although the hive got me to do something like pat Korli on the head, things are intense. Our young tend to be eager yet unfocused. I was the same way, even if the times were different.

>You could be having more fun (hint hint)
I just did. Even if the point of the shower was to get clean, even I would not think I would do so in the presence of girls without additional activities occurring.

>To who [do you sell your research to]? Doesn't most the outside world not know your hive exists?
Vanski takes care of our outside contact. I expect that he sells them to crime organizations as he will, and as far as our existence goes, he likely just explains that he has a hive and nothing more.

>Any idea how things got like this? Is the Salikai paranoia warranted due to something that happened?
I'd be oversimplifying matters if I thought it was a single event, but Vanski's wife or... significant other, died to a disease recently. He tasked our medical team with a cure. Asking for a cure on short notice for such a complex disease was unrealistic, and although he knows this from a factual point, the medical team's failure to make miracles happen has not sat well with Vanski.

On paper, Stirra, his SO, was simply a business partner that included reproduction. Upon her death, though, he changed in ways that do not reflect a simple lost of cold business.

We're too important to him to just throw us out, appreciation or not. I know that our research isn't sold cheap, and he may just feel like we have too many dead ends. He may simply... no, not downsize us, but have us gradually merge to a few fields where we've had more success. Such as armor and weaponry fields, along with our growing biology field.

>Any room for independent projects?
Not really, but we may want to make room.

>Pat Korli on the head
As soon as I think this, she bows her head.

It was only a thought, not an intention or a consideration.

Nonetheless, it's carried beyond a thought, and despite personal disinterest in doing so, I end up patting her on the head. I would rather not encourage slacking even if it has to be done sometimes, but I suppose I am at the other extreme and shouldn't judge.

Hm? The queen is approaching.
No. 758876 ID: bfb318
File 147925897906.png - (18.91KB , 800x800 , 10.png )

I dry off, and am still not dressed before Quokko arrives.

>"What are you doing?"
"Taking a break."
>"You suck at it."
"I know. I'll get back to my research."
>"Like hell you will. The only thing you're going to be researching today is how to lighten up. You're bumming down the hive."
"Things aren't great."
>"Remember when there were 15 of us and we were all eating our own damn fingers because we got chased out of our home for the 10th time that year? Things sound pretty glorious to me. Yeah, we're not at our peak, but just because things aren't the best they've ever been doesn't mean we're doing bad.
"Not if we look at it like that, but we're on a decline from the peak."
>"And you're spiraling down faster when you're sleep deprived. You're disallowed from thinking about it until you get some sleep."
"It's 3 PM."
>"Does it sound like that matters? Do you even need a schedule?"
"Almost everyone else sleeps at night. It gets lonely in the lab then."
>"Then sleep for 15 hours."

That is not something I can accept, but my hive is accepting it for me.

>"Get in my bed, Likol."

The other hivemates mentally turn to dirty thoughts, and Quokko rolls her eyes.
No. 758877 ID: 595d54

Well, get in bed. Enjoy a nice dream.
No. 758880 ID: 211d83

Leer at her and wink before sauntering off to her bed.

Then ask if she is coming if she does not follow along.

Got to tease her a bit if she is ordering us around.
No. 758882 ID: 595d54

Likol doesn't seem the type to have fun, but I'll still support this anyway.
No. 758884 ID: 3abd97

>I would rather not encourage slacking even if it has to be done sometimes,
She's not slacking, she's reminding the so called older and wiser generation to remember to take care of themselves, and relax with their hive. You're all a bunch of workaholics, you need some Korlis to balance you out with a little recreational slacking. Emotional health is important!

Heck, you really need effective management, but the people with all the authority use it to lock themselves away with their projects instead of spending time managing and looking out for the hive. ...and while maybe what your hive needs is outside help to do that for you, you can't really trust Vanski to do it, can you?

>"It's 3 PM."
You're underground. Time doesn't matter.

Also, don't pretend you follow a normal schedule when you're working at your computer. If you can stay up all night and day when it's convenient to work, you can sleep at 3 when it's convenient, you hypocrite.

>The other hivemates mentally turn to dirty thoughts, and Quokko rolls her eyes.
You heard em. Queen's orders. To the cuddle pile!
No. 758887 ID: db0da2

Do it. She's the queen. You aren't that independent yet, are you? You can at least do this much. Besides, she's right, you need more rest.

This does not bode well, the hive is in decline and the queen is unwilling to do anything about it. That's a familiar story. Don't sleep for 15 hours, wake up while your hivemates sleep and do something before it's too late. It's only a matter of time until Vanski starts surveilling you too.
No. 758891 ID: ccbcd2

You heard the queen. Worst case scenario you get the sleep you need.
No. 758901 ID: 91ee5f

>The other hivemates mentally turn to dirty thoughts, and Quokko rolls her eyes.
Tell her that she started it and has no one else to blame but herself for everyone thinking dirty thoughts.
No. 758904 ID: 6d3d3d

If she REALLY wants to get knocked up that badly, who are you to argue? Doesn't get much better than paid vacations where your hawt boss compensates you with constant @#$%ing while she's in heat.
No. 758907 ID: bfb318
File 147926318441.png - (14.99KB , 800x800 , 11.png )

>Queen is unwilling to do anything about a decline
I don't believe she is unwilling. She just thinks that I get cranky about it while sleeping, and wants me to only think about heavy topics like that while well rested.

>Don't pretend you follow a normal schedule when you're working at your computer.
I'm not, but if I'm to fix it, I should do it right and not sleep at 3 PM.

Nonetheless, the argument is over, and it's me vs. everyone.

>Leer at her
No. 758908 ID: bfb318
File 147926319620.png - (14.70KB , 800x800 , 12.png )



People think I stink at leering and winking, too. It's also true, even if I'm attracted to just about every girl in the hive.
No. 758910 ID: bfb318
File 147926327176.png - (14.44KB , 800x800 , 13.png )

I get in bed. Quokko follows. Like a shower, it's always unlikely to, in normal circumstances, enter a bed with a girl without intercourse occuring at some point. She doesn't let me set an alarm, especially since it would go off in the middle of the night. Nonetheless, Quokko eventually leaves me to sleep.

>Do something before it's too late.
It's more the principle of the matter that I don't want to sleep for 15 hours. Vanski's gradual power struggle with us was done over the course of years. If it becomes too late, it's because we didn't remain vigilant, not because I overslept for a few hours.
No. 758911 ID: bfb318
File 147926328689.png - (13.91KB , 800x800 , 14.png )

I wake up at 2 in the morning. I dreamed a little, but nothing worth note. Quokko isn't here, although there's more people in bed instead.
No. 758912 ID: 285fca

Tell her that over-sleep is detrimental as well. However, a change is as good as a rest. You simply need to engage in mental activity of a different type than you normally would, and that will be both useful and restful, and help you be tired enough to sleep well, when you go to sleep at a time that your body is used to going to sleep. Overall, it will be even better than just going to sleep now.

As for what those activities should be... how about you escort your Queen around, and help her with her duties? The hive respects you as well, a double dose of authority from Queen and elder will help move things along.

You should consider trying to make contact with Vanski's contacts, in some manner. Make your hive some connections beyond just him; someone who will notice if something happens to you. You could sell it to Vanski as, for example, trying to pursue more lucrative research, by talking directly to clients about what they would like. And/or, he surely doesn't want to do all the talking and handshaking himself; salikai are a reclusive species, neumono social, so a few assistants in business relations could be useful to him.
No. 758913 ID: c441c1

go back to sleep until its time to wake up then you have a schedule to keep then keep it.
No. 758914 ID: 211d83

Could you sleep in or are you stuck up now?

Either lay around for a few hours or check your watch and try to get up without bothering the pile to much.

Then get breakfast and decide what to do for the day.
No. 758915 ID: 285fca


Argh, update while I was typing my suggestion. Forget everything in that post but the last bit about contacts.

Carefully squirm out of bed and see where your Queen went. I take it this isn't her own normal schedule?
No. 758917 ID: 3abd97

Likol: terrible at being a pervert, but his hive encourages him to be one anyways.

Quokko: master of the lost secret art the ear-cuddle technique. She is quite literally hugging him with her ear.

Well, you can either stay in the cuddle pile for another 4 hours to get back on a normal sleep cycle, or you can sneak out of bed early to get back to work.

...or just peek at your watch, see if there were any alerts.
No. 758922 ID: 398fe1

You're not supposed to get out of bed until 6.

Relax for a bit.
No. 758927 ID: 91ee5f

>even if I'm attracted to just about every girl in the hive.
Jeez, what the fuck are you waiting for? Have a fucking orgy with the entire hive already!

I'm pretty sure you can't get out of there without waking someone up and they won't like being woken up or you being awake, so I think your only option is to go back to sleep.
No. 758929 ID: 398fe1

...did your watch go off?
No. 758938 ID: 2169b1

As fun as it is, surely you have better things to do than getting laid. You're all rested up, time to start making some plans!
No. 758940 ID: bfb318
File 147927045932.png - (18.59KB , 800x800 , 15.png )

>Jeez, what the fuck are you waiting for? Have a fucking orgy with the entire hive already!
I'm waiting for an appropriate mood.

This bed is communal. No one should be sleeping on it if they get woken up by a hivemate getting in or out of the bed.

>Check watch
The notification counter remains at zero.

I'm unable to get back to sleep. I'm too hungry and restless. Instead, I fetch a fitting shirt in the closet and go get some breakfast. As soon as I enter the kitchen hall, my presence is sensed, and whoever is cooking puts on some additional food in response.

I'm groggy, and the few people who are still up are exhausted. The mood isn't a bad one, even calm, but we're not in the mood for chit chat.

Once again, our forks remind me that 4 prongs work better than 3 for a great number of tasks.
No. 758941 ID: bfb318
File 147927046853.png - (23.75KB , 800x800 , 16.png )

Even if I don't sleep, it would be rude to the queen's sentiment to go back to work at the earliest chance. I take a brief walk in the cooler cavernous air.

Quokko is overlooking a small cliffside where we keep a small lot of livestock and plants.

"You don't have much of a daily rhythm, either."
>"You spoke sleepy drivel the other day, with the exception of one thing. We're in decline."
"I hope you're not giving up doing anything about it."

Of course not. We will surmount this, as we've surmounted the past. Not because of some idea that problems have a way of working themselves out on their own, but because we're problem solvers.

If you have ideas, now's the time to share them. But let the queen do the legwork. A salikai will get suspicious if the CAI supervisor starts dealing with the management job.
No. 758943 ID: 285fca

Alright, I'll repeat what I said earlier.

>You should consider trying to make contact with Vanski's contacts, in some manner. Make your hive some connections beyond just him; someone who will notice if something happens to you. You could sell it to Vanski as, for example, trying to pursue more lucrative research, by talking directly to clients about what they would like. And/or, he surely doesn't want to do all the talking and handshaking himself; salikai are a reclusive species, neumono social, so a few assistants in business relations could be useful to him.

You yourself already demonstrated decent ability to interact with non-hive neumono, didn't you? Quite a long time ago now, but it's a skill. Your hive aren't really the types to get hostile, you're scientists and you have an emotional investment in the idea of being reasonable. And you managed friendly relations and a long-term relationship with a salikai, which given the history of your races must have been harder than interacting with aliens would be, and you have interacted with aliens a little.

It's not science, I know, so it wouldn't be as enjoyable for you, but someone who has an solid grounding in science, and a knowledge of what your group is capable of, would be important to have involved in business dealings of the type Vanski seems to engage in. Vanski surely has his own projects, and enough trouble managing all the construction and his various underlings, and is probably not in the mood to socialize after his wife's death, in addition to salikai generally being not very social.

Aside that, hive members acting as liasons to your clients could better comminicate to the rest of the hive what it is those clients want most, helping you focus your research and produce value more efficiently.
No. 758944 ID: 211d83

Well here are the obvious points to start with:

1: Prove ourselves to Vanski so that he realizes that even with our failure he could have never made it this far without us and we still need each other. Help with more than just the science so he can not stuff you all in a lab and forget about you. If you are up to your neck in all the systems in the base he will need you for more than just science.

1b: Don't design stuff that will let the Cai replace or take over anything you and only you can do. If Vanski feels he does not need you cause the Cai can do your job you will get demoted.

2: Find ways of regaining some power in the relationship. Make our own outside connections so we are not as reliant on Vanski for outside news and resources. The less reliant we are on the Salikai the less chance they can push you around.

3: Have a survival or bugout plan in place. If things do take a turn for the worse we should have at best a escape route and at the worst everyone in the hive knowing what to do in a emergency.

4: Befriend the Cai. You say you don't trust it but its more of a prisoner than you are. You can't openly go to it with any of the other plans because it's life is in Vanski's hands but making friends with it and maybe finding a way to keep it safe from the deadman's switch might gain you a powerful ally.

5: Develop safeguards for your own tech. Make sure that any specialized tech you build can never be used directly against you. Keep the fact that countermeasures exist quiet and if Vanski finds out say that they exist so our enemies can not repurpose our tech against us.

6: Develop safguards and weapons designed against the other races that make up the Salikai forces. You can easily disguise these as failed prototypes that you are working on redesigning.

7: Consider having a plan (in your head only) for Assasinating Vanski in his lair. If you got him alone with no one around and now had access to the Cai's deadman's switch you would control the facility.

8: Remember that any weapons you develop that are designed to kill or affect Neumono could be used on you once they are done. If someone hates your race bad enough to develop special weapons to hurt or kill you then he is going to secretly hate his "Tame" neumono as well.
No. 758947 ID: 398fe1

Maybe the escape plan is the most feasible, but we'd have to make sure it never reaches the ears of the salikai. Also the entire hive might not make it out. We should be prepared for that scenario.

Alternatively, we could strike a bargain with Vanski to downscale the science hive, by relocating the majority somewhere else that's nicer. If we can improve the situation for the majority of the hive, it'll be worth it.
No. 758949 ID: e22b1d

Whatever we do it has to start very subtly. Salikai can see patterns faster than you can despite there lack of true social skills.

If Valaski notices you changing things in a way that looks like a betrayal he will clamp down hard on you. So make sure your plans are or at least look completely innocent. Even if you just want to be equals in the relationship and are fine working with him you need to be stronger to do so. Right now its not a equal partnership.

Your history as a pure science hive is probably your biggest strength. So taking on crazy research projects that will later help only you would be easy to work on in the open. Just make sure they have a component that Vanski can use each time.

And any plan that will go unnoticed has to be hidden from the Cai as well. Either by hiding it in plain sight or by having so many things going at once even the Cai can not concentrate on it all at once.
No. 758951 ID: 3abd97

>If you have ideas, now's the time to share them. But let the queen do the legwork. A salikai will get suspicious if the CAI supervisor starts dealing with the management job.
The core of the problem right now is the balance of your relationship with Vanski. You are dependent on him for intermediaries to contact the outside world, for resources, for protection. But there's no real trust between the two of you, and he doesn't need you the way you need him. He doesn't depend on you the way you depend on him. It's a one way relationship.

Part of this is you're one of several groups dependent on Vanski slash operating under his umbrella. Your hive, the CAI, the arkots, etc. And Vanski is free to play these groups against each other if they cross or displease him.

One obvious play is to try to skew the balance of power by interfering with Vanski's ability to play other sides against you. The most obvious is the CAI. Your hive (and your research in particular) is the blade Vanski can hold over the CAI. By the same token, it's the CAI's reason to be vigilant against your hive in favor of Vanski (the CAI would prefer an excuse to come down on you and remove you from the field, making it's own position more secure). If you remove or compromise your own ability to hurt the CAI... alliance with the CAI becomes possible. Vanski loses the ability to effectively hold you against the CAI, and the CAI loses motive to act preemptively against you for self preservation. (And if you keep it secret you've removed your capacity to harm the CAI, you can collaborate with it even as Vanski thinks he's playing you against each other).

It's a risky play (since the CAI could rat you out or turn on you immediately) but it's the same kind of game theory risk-reward thing you've watched from studying your CAI simulation cycles. People with no real reason to trust each other, except they stand better odds of survival if they do.

Another obvious play is try and win Vanski over. Require his trust, make yourselves more useful or valuable to him again. Obvious benefits to this, but if you've known him this long, and the relationship has been getting slowly worse, I have doubts you can accomplish this at this point.

Another play might be trying to earn the favor of one of Vanski's children. They compete with each other- make them compete to earn your hive's cooperation with their enterprises exclusively. Make yourself useful to the child as a shield from the parent. (Risky in that young salikai betray their allies as a matter of course. It's how they learn, for goodness sake).

Backdoors and countermeasures in your tech. Planned obsolescence, obscurity, etc. You make it so the systems you're developing aren't perfect. They require you to keep them going. Downside here is salikai and the CAI are both smart- without CAI cooperation, it could likely keep things running as well as you could, and maybe the salikai could too, if they could concentrate on the problem long enough.

Who's been handling relations with Vanski's faction so far? Would it help if you put more of the younger generation on it? They wouldn't have the same bad history, and they have a different mindset. It's possible he might respond to them better.

Escape? If things go bad, people just leave and head for the ultras. (Secretly hide thumb drives with information inside some of the young? Hard part would be leaving them ignorant to their own implants, and them not showing up on salikai security).

Replace Vanski with a better alternative? What they really need are chaperons and smart manegment while they nerd it up. In the present, Sealock is kind of perfect for that role, but that potential teamup can't happen until after things go bad.

Empathy dependent tech? Anything that requires neumono to work would make it awful hard to replace or remove you.

Contacts outside the hive, and that don't require going through Vanski. If you want leverage, you need other options.

Deadman options? If he turns on you, something you made will turn on him, eventually. From a direction he never expected, and delayed to go off long after he's stopped checking for traps.

...there's always immortality through cloning or AI upload as a last resort, but you sure don't have that tech working, yet.
No. 758953 ID: 3abd97

Oh, and the secondary problem is your own hive. People like yourself, who have the authority and respect to influence things, use that authority to buy yourself unrestricted lab access instead of using it to help manage the hive. So you're dependent on the salikai and outsiders to mostly take that role from you. You've surrendered power and responsibility in the pursuit of science, and your own interests.

...as loath as you are to admit it.
No. 758959 ID: 285fca

Be careful with how you talk about these options. If there are any monitoring devices nearby, we don't want Vanski to feel threatened. As you speak out loud, phrase things like you want to find out how to serve his business better and be more productive and valuable. Add the more... detailed context through empathy.
No. 758960 ID: 285fca

Oh, also... one for you personally, Likol. How hard would it be for you to actually pull out a functional CAI without anyone noticing? The process goes almost right up to the end, anyway. Could you jam a computer into the side and yank out a few AIs into a little handy mini-CAI of your own?
No. 758998 ID: bfb318
File 147928280864.png - (19.67KB , 800x800 , 17.png )

"What happened with the connections we made earlier? I know Vanski doesn't like rubbing noses with so many others."
>"He doesn't, and that's what his kids are for. We've made connections. They've all dissipated."
"It doesn't mean we can't try again."

It's more difficult than you think. All those connections we had, for them to just dissolve one after the other into deadends like that... it's unlikely.
>"Sabotage was likely."

I stop thinking about that. Those are dangerous thoughts. Still, Quokko does like the idea if not for the added difficulty of Vanski explicitly hampering our ability to do so.

"I'd like to integrate our equipment into more systems. Make the salikai more reliant on us."
>"The Su'ata salikai would be relucant to let that happen, but... if we're quiet about it... I'll see what we have in the oven that we can bake into the base."

Not stuff that can easily be used with the CAI.

An escape plan? We could escape, but we doubt it would be easy. Either living out in the wild again, or throwing our fates in with an ultrahive. Nevermind one doesn't just 'leave' the underweb with the secrets we have, Vanski or not.

I'll try talking with the CAI again. Sometimes I try to work with them and get some friendliness. It doesn't go far, but it's worth a try.

>Safeguards for one's own tech and other weapons
We have to run it through Vanski. We can't hide hidden projects him for long.

>Assassinating Van---

no thinking
Do not ever think that.

Very dangerous thoughts. Which make things like hidden safeguards, escape plans, deadman options, and so on extremely dangerous to even think about.

There is no such thought that only happens in my own head. It gets in my hives head. Then, sometimes, neumono come to 'visit' and ask 'gentle' questions while probing us.

It's safe, here, we monitor this location. No surveillance has been installed as long, so just don't yell.

>Who's been handling relations with Vanski's faction so far?

>How hard would it be for you to actually pull out a functional CAI without anyone noticing? Could you jam a computer into the side and yank out a few AIs into a little handy mini-CAI of your own?
Impossible. The only tech that can generate a CAI, currently, are the four CAI blocks A-D. We only have one of each, in other words, only one container. Making a new CAI means overriding the old CAI, and the blocks themselves are in Vanski's room, where I don't have access.

Even the quantum computer can't store them in their current form. That computer is just a glorified processor that the actual CAI blocks use to help process things faster.

>Would it help if you put more of the younger generation on it? They wouldn't have the same bad history, and they have a different mindset. It's possible he might respond to them better.
He would see them as social prey, and manipulate them as hard as he can.

"Wait. The children."

Of course. They compete with one another. They aren't as high strung, yet at least, as Vanski. They still recognize our use, and our history.

If we can get good relations with a child, we can get protection through them.

More life with salikai favor as another necessary resource?

We need better management, but...

It's easy and will hold us over for awhile while we try for more long term solutions. We'll look into it. Even the more outlandish ideas.

Don't enact any plans that doesn't look innocent on the outside.

"I won't do anything reckless, but trying for subtlety hasn't work well in the past. Let me handle things if something goes sour."
No. 758999 ID: bfb318
File 147928281853.png - (15.73KB , 800x800 , 18.png )

We sit in peace a moment, and reminisce for a little while, while it's still dark.

It's interrupted by a ping on my clock. It's not a notification about the Ring Shell, which probably sounds more like an airhorn, or proper alarm. The gentle ping is someone in the lab calling to me.

>"It's Momu get in here ASAP!!!!!!!!!!"
No. 759002 ID: 285fca

Book it!
No. 759006 ID: 398fe1

ASAP means ASAP. Get a move on.
No. 759007 ID: 595d54

Well clearly you should be ignoring warnings from your hivemate watching the CAI. No big deal.

Go get some exercise and cardio. By running. To Momu.
No. 759010 ID: 6d3d3d

No. 759011 ID: edee29

>"It's Momu get in here ASAP!!!!!!!!!!"
Did she find something? It couldn't be a sudden error message, the cycle should still be pretty early in the prelims. Don't worry about your queen's order to take a break, it's not really work if something major just happened! Unless something broke down, that is, in which case you shouldn't be on break anyway.

Say, what kind of information can you easily extract from the contestants' life experiences? Even their last coherent thought could prove interesting. Maybe you could focus on that anomaly, and find out why it keeps getting so far.

Speaking of the anomaly, what's the spread of its successes? Did those 50 wins happen fairly randomly, were they fairly evenly spaced, or were there clumps of wins interspersed with massive gaps? That last one could be interesting, since one explanation is that previous cycles are directly influencing later ones in some way that affects who survives.
No. 759016 ID: b412df

Looks like the mystery box is finally doing stuff that might make it not a mystery, to the lab, for Science!
No. 759030 ID: 3abd97

You left out maybe the most promising idea, which was trying to win over the CAI by removing the knife you currently hold over it's head. (And maybe not telling Vanski you did).

Which is risky for obvious reasons, but if you remove the ability for Vanski to play your hive and the CAI against each other, cooperating in mutual self interest, instead of being wary towards each other with an eye for survival, becomes possible.

>"It's Momu get in here ASAP!!!!!!!!!!"
Momu's paging me. Something interesting must have actually happened. Excuse me.
No. 759063 ID: 34e2f1

How many bangs (!) is it before the Momu-meter trips to full "oh fuck"? Your other hibernate I could see sending all that, but Mini …?
No. 759079 ID: bfb318
File 147932575194.png - (43.83KB , 800x800 , 19.png )

>Win over the CAI by removing the knife you currently hold over it's head.
I'm conflicted on this. To remove that would mean shutting down the experiment such that no more cycles occur, which would not take long for Vanski or another Su'ata to notice. Even if the CAI became friendly, Vanski would still have other knives over their heads, namely being in control of the physical CAI blocks. I don't believe the CAI is hostile to us, either. They have no reason to remove us; their position is secure enough, being a CAI.

This reminds me why it's difficult to speak to the CAI at length, too. If Vanski notices I speak to them much, he may suspect collaboration.

>Say, what kind of information can you easily extract from the contestants' life experiences?
Easily? Very little. Just a few facts, like if one is still alive, what stages it's gotten through, and what other IDs it's come into contact with. Which could mean that ID became their best friend, or they entered their line of sight at some point in time, but there's no way to easily tell which.

>Speaking of the anomaly, what's the spread of its successes?
Random, more or less. There's significant gaps here and there, and it's been a long time since I've seen it, but it's difficult to tell if that's significant, or simply the usual odd spread that can occur with random distribution.

"Momu's paging me." I tell Quokko.
>"How convenient."
"I'd better go, in case it's something."
>"Don't work all day."
"I already haven't."

>How many bangs (!) is it before the Momu-meter trips to full "oh fuck"?
More bangs just make it sound sarcastic. In any case, the only real thing she can send out from the lab are loud noises, due to the security measures in which the lab practices radio and wireless silence. The wireless receptor outside the station then reads the noise, and then commits an action based on the noise - in this case, it was to send a preset message to my watch. Rihhin probably got it to, but she's most likely asleep.

>Get a move on
>Book it
Just in case, I don't waste time.
No. 759080 ID: bfb318
File 147932576951.png - (25.98KB , 800x800 , 20.png )

Momu feels like she's going to explode waiting for me to finish the scans, showers and so on. She rushes up to me as I approach the room.

>"There you are! Look at this!" she says, gesturing to my desktop.

"ID numbers."
>"Nearly all the regular winners have made it through the first preliminary stage!"
"If you think about it, that's the most likely scenario."
>"Yeah but there's so many scenarios it's still really unlikely so now all the usual winners are doing well!"
"Momu... I don't know what that has to do with our research. Is the corruptor doing anything yet?" I ask, but I doubt it. It remains dormant for the first few stages, which is a couple of days real time.
>"No but I bet it's hyperactive this round!" But I don't know yet.

It's been active in almost every single cycle regardless, but sometimes it's far more active than others, with no middle ground between regular active and hyperactive. To date, we haven't found a reason why its activity, on a scale of one to ten, either is above a 7 or below a 5.

After a minute of empathizing with Momu, I confirm there is nothing new, and nothing interesting, about this cycle, as there never is in the first couple of rounds. She is just excited. Excited about science. She is impervious to my apathy, thankfully.
No. 759081 ID: 595d54

Pat Momu on the head. Check in as much detail as you can, just in case. If it's nothing, back to Quokko or what serves as the lounge, I guess.
No. 759083 ID: 3d2d5f

>what other IDs it's come into contact with. Which could mean that ID became their best friend, or they entered their line of sight at some point in time, but there's no way to easily tell which.
If you reset this parameter repeatedly and log results, you'd have a list of associations over time. Would allow you to better hypothesize which AIs are choosing (or forced) to associate with one another.

Thank Momu, head pat, give her reassurance to calm her down.

Thank you for keeping me informed, but please try to reserve the asap alert for anything new or unusual.

What now? Either you keep planning contingencies or other ways to improve the situation behind the safety of your less monitored lab, or you get back to work. What work is there to do early in a cycle?
No. 759084 ID: db0da2

>She is just excited. Excited about science.
That's a good attitude to have, even if it doesn't really mesh well with the situation y'all're in.

I suppose you should keep a close eye on them in case they do something interesting this time around, though I suppose you were going to do that anyway, because that's your (entire?) job.
No. 759085 ID: 285fca

I'm guessing that any line of communication that could lead from the AIs inside back out to the real world would be a problem, but you have power over what they experience, right? Have you inserted any deposits of information or recorded messages that would tell the AIs in the sim anything about you or the wider situation or that would just maybe help them feel better about the whole thing, on the chance that they are sentient in there?

What is the protocol for if things start going really off-track in there, anyway? You are scientists, and it's from aberrations that you learn the most. If the system was isolated, I'd guess the plan would be to just let whatever's in there fall over all the way on its own and then look at the records, but if it's connected in to the main CAI, I'm guessing there's a certain cut-off point where the threat has to be dealt with? On the other hand, you did say the CAI was replaceable. How much deviation, how many anomalies do you put up with before you press the forced reset button?

What would you do if, for example, one of the cycles just stopped progressing? Not as in totally freezing, but like if it still stayed active but kept going forever without reaching the final stages. Would you just observe whatever activity you could?
No. 759087 ID: 094652

This could be a sign of a higher intelligence in the machine. If the trend of high survival rates continues, then the most likely cause is that something is tinkering with the process, and if it isn't an outside hacker then it has to be an inside hacker. Luck or intelligence, you could boost your funding by capturing the AIs responsible for this.

... Is what you'd say 3,000 cycles ago. Except you're not that gullible anymore. Tell Momu that this is a good case file, but you expect things to go back to normal once the process ups its ante and pushes the AIs into a corner and forces them to sacrifice a few survivors. You can observe this cycle because its one of the few that managed to induce mass cooperation, indicating a better CAI build, and you can even expect them to breeze through the next two trials thanks to this overwhelming horde of cooperating specialists. And scapegoats. But once they get to one of the trials where saving almost everyone ISN'T an option, they'll either fight it out or refuse to play further. You can start yelling AFTER they beat something that specifically selects a fixed number of surviving AIs.
No. 759097 ID: 850f11

Don't squash that enthusiasm. You want her excited about possible breakthroughs. Maybe nothing will come of it but don't infect her with your apathy.

Honestly her attitude is just what you need around her. Having watched this for so long you have grown cynical. So if there are any sudden breakthroughs then you might not be in the right mindset to see the signs.

So help her set up some extra monitoring so you can see if this is a fluke or something worthwhile. Maybe its going to be nothing but will be a good learning experience for her. And you teaching her will help your mood.

You know you could talk to the Cai more without suspicion if you proposed it up as a experiment to try and speed up your research. Along the way you could slowly get to know it better and let it realize that you have its best interests at heart. If Vanski ever does turn against you having the Cai be friendly will help.
No. 759100 ID: 398fe1

>haven't found a reason why it's never a moderate amount
Maybe you should be thinking from the opposite direction. Why is the stabilizer not allowing a moderate amount of corruption? Why is the stabilizer allowing a large amount of corruption? Maybe your creation has developed its own agenda. Did you even tell it what it was made to do?

Anyway, you said earlier that changing a contestant's hidden values would drastically alter their behavior. The simulation as a whole can change based on different initial conditions. This is new, even if it hasn't done anything interesting yet. Any particularly extreme initial conditions can mark a particularly interesting cycle, but it may take a while for those initial conditions to develop.

So keep an eye on things. Track their progress, and see if you can spot any aberrant IDs following along with the successful AIs.
No. 759131 ID: 211d83

Give it to her as a project.

Have her follow those id's and compare them to previous cycles. She can track them over the stages and see if this is something special or a fluke.

Have her tracking and collating the data will be fun for her and no matter what way it goes you will have some extra data to add to your calculations.
No. 759141 ID: bfb318
File 147934323314.png - (14.73KB , 800x800 , 21.png )

>If you reset this parameter repeatedly and log results, you'd have a list of associations over time.
We have, actually, considering it's one of the few things easily gained.

So we do have a list of frequent interactions, at least, but it's often difficult to tell if they're friends or enemies.

Ultimately, though, the lives and experiences of the AI aren't part of the experiment, and are just a passing interest. It's an entirely different field. The only work-related interest I have with them is that they, namely the corruptor, is what causes aberrations in the RS, and the RS is what I study.

>Have you inserted any deposits of information or recorded messages that would tell the AIs in the sim anything about you or the wider situation or that would just maybe help them feel better about the whole thing, on the chance that they are sentient in there?
I have. Out of some weird sense of old amusement, I gave them old pictures I used to take. They are made to be a blotch inside of Block C that is easier to isolate out than the AIs or stages or other information, and as a result, I have an easier time finding out if they've been found or not. The whole purpose of them is just a checkpoint system to confirm that the constestants are making it through the stages in the first place.

Or at least, that's all they're useful for. The other purpose was just me experimenting with inserting things inside of the stages.

In any case, I can't imagine they're sentient. There's simply no way that so many sentient, self aware beings could all be processed so quickly. Arza wanted us to believe they were, but he spoke highly of even the most rote AI, and I believe he meant it in a best-practice kind of sentiment. Much like how people on teams are told that everything that their team does is their own individual fault - maybe useful as an attitude, but wildy untrue.

I do not recall when my hive's lower generation got a taste for head pats, but it's not something I can reasonably fight.
No. 759143 ID: bfb318
File 147934328938.png - (37.73KB , 800x800 , 22.png )

>Why is the stabilizer allowing a large amount of corruption? Did you even tell it what it was made to do?
My only guess is that it normally tries to limit the corruption, but if it gets corrupted itself, then it backs off the next cycle. If that's the case, then the corruptor always attempts an 8-10, but if the stabilizer is active, it reliably gets dialed back to a 2-4.

It's not supposed to stop the corruption. It's just there as backup. I can't implant memories in contestants, but in the beginning, it should have received a note from me explaining its purpose. It seems to be more proactive than intended, but I haven't deteced any problems from it.

>What work is there to do early in a cycle?
Typically that's when I look at the RS and the error logs of the previous cycle.

"This is a good case file, but the stages don't get any less dangerous overall. Keep your focus up, but don't count on anything. I'm going to get to my work."
>"Okay! I've translated the last batch of error messages. What do you want me to do?"
"... study the AIs."
>"Whoa, really? I mean, I'm not complaining, I can keep imprinting the RS visuals on my eyeballs if you want!"
"I might be going about this in the wrong direction. Perhaps instead of trying to read the RS, we should read the AIs and see how they influence the RS."

Granted, we've tried this before on countless occasions, but Momu might have more luck this time.

There's also a tiny chance that the corruptor and the stabilizer may have the tools needed to find out about the ringshell, and if either of our custom AIs can learn to use the RS to communicate with us, that would make our jobs as good as done.

Parallel Unregistered found.

That's the common one. Rihhin's AI creates its own sub processes.

After a more in depth look at my stabilizer, it looks like its spawn got corrupted at some point in cycle 3118, which does mean this will be another hyperactive cycle after all. I start getting a faint glimmer of hope, but it comes from Momu.

>What is the protocol for if things start going really off-track in there, anyway? You did say the CAI was replaceable. How much deviation, how many anomalies do you put up with before you press the forced reset button?
The CAI is, but the blocks are not, except for Block B which can be replaced without too much hassle. My stabilizer can repair block C if that goes poorly. Block D, however... if that starts going awry, the whole system will freeze if it gets too far. That is irreplaceable. So far, though, it's intact, and it seems to be a self repairing, self replicating system. If there's been any damage to it, it's been so miniscule as to be undetectable underneath all its noise.

If the RS looks like it's taking damage, though, is when we pull the plug on this arch cycle.

>What would you do if, for example, one of the cycles was active, but not progressing?
I might take a more in depth look at the contestants and block C than I normally do, but ultimately, there is a function that force starts a new cycle. Once, somewhere on cycle two thousand something, the cycles didn't seem to be restarting properly. I used the force new start function, and that seemed to fix the issue.

There's not much to monitor for today. Beginning tomorrow morning, things may start picking up. I'll just inspect the previous cycle to see if I stumble on anything.

It is true, although Momu calms herself around me, her enthusiasm does rub off back onto me.

Before I know it, it's 8 PM. I haven't seen Rihhin, but she has other things going on. Momu is still excited, if tiredly so.

"I bet youuu...." Momu breaks the silence as she gets an idea. "That this cycle is going to stand out past the rest! And if it does, then you have to do my share of cleaning next time I get put on cleaning duty! And if it's just a ho hum cycle that doesn't help us, then it's reversed. How about it?"

This bet again. She just likes it when I let her clean up after me.
No. 759146 ID: 211d83

Take the bet just for fun. Win or lose you get to socialize and do something out of the box.
No. 759147 ID: 595d54

Take it. Even if it's just something she likes, it's nice to do stuff with hivemates.

"Any ideas how it'll stand out?"
No. 759149 ID: edee29

>it's difficult to tell if [the gaps are] significant, or simply the usual odd spread that can occur with random distribution
Yeah, it's admittedly hard to get a good sample size, but what if it's not random? Maybe the cycles aren't completely self contained, and some form of information is passing into future cycles. Do we have any way of testing for that? If we can confirm it and learn how it's being done, can we inject our own information to influence the contest?

Hmm... do you still have data on the anomaly for the cycles it didn't complete? It if just suddenly starts consistently dying at a specific point that would point toward some sort of extra-cycle influence that it had to overcome.

>If the RS looks like it's taking damage, though, is when we pull the plug on this arch cycle
Would you even have time to pull the plug? With the processing speed available to it, if something in there does figure out how to damage it then it'll probably do everything in a matter of seconds, if not faster.
No. 759150 ID: 094652

> There's simply no way that so many sentient, self aware beings could all be processed so quickly.

You're using a supercomputer designed to build and improve upon what took the universe billions of years to accidentally come up with through trial and error, and it's capable of processing and simultaneously testing one trillion different autonomous programs. At a fraction of lightspeed. With minimal user input.

Face it, Likol. They are smarter than you. They are also working together, which means they can cloud compute their "living" processes, the parts that take up most of the AI space. Who's to say they aren't even more sentient?
No. 759151 ID: 3abd97

>I haven't seen Rihhin, but she has other things going on.
Check on her, at some point, maybe? She checked on you, earlier.

>This bet again. She just likes it when I let her clean up after me.
Indulge her. It's harmless fun, and if she actually wins the bet you're going to be so excited you won't even mind having to clean for a change.

>Momu is still excited, if tiredly so.
Should probably send her to bed at some point. You've slept more recently and can watch longer. With the logic that she wants to get her rest in now before it gets really interesting. If she's right, she won't want to miss that part. (And of course you'll page her if things go nuts).
No. 759152 ID: b412df

Guessing "Parallel Unregistered found" is the corrupter spawning devotees, and the force new cycle around cycle 2000 or so was when glitcher and corrupter tried to perpetuate the cycles.
No. 759153 ID: edee29

This guy raises a good point. Think of it this way: what if it's not processing a trillion AI, but a single AI that's pretending to be a trillion AI?
No. 759155 ID: e22b1d

Well if you are that confident then why not.

But that means more projects for us. If we suddenly get morse code this cycle then we need be ready to figure out what our new baby Ai is up to and how we can talk to it. Might be a pretty simple little guy so we might need to have a way to translate ready.

Plus we should have a test server to transfer it to if possible so we can run tests and see how it reacts to life outside the shell.

Getting to talk with a proto-Ai before block 4 hits it might give us all the info we need to break this wide open.

(Sure you are humoring her but she will enjoy the challenge. Plus gives you a project to work on instead of worrying about your underworld patron.)
No. 759157 ID: 285fca

Take the bet.

Just so we can be sure what normal and abnormal are, could you give us a brief overview of the whole process from beginning to end, what each of the boxes do, where the ring shell is involved and how, et cetera? Along with what modifications and insertions have been done to the system, and what each such was intended to accomplish? Were any in-built systems suppressed or removed?

Also, what's the best speculation for how these ancient systems were originally "supposed" to run? How much of what's in there is from the original ancient belenosian work?
No. 759159 ID: 398fe1

>Parallel Unregistered found.
Does this always happen in hyperactive cycles? Does it EVER happen in non-hyperactive cycles? Also what does that mean? Are the custom AIs "unregistered"?
Don't you think it's a bit odd that the corrupting AI seems to produce exactly twice as much corruption in hyperactive cycles? It's almost like there's twice as many AIs producing corruption, not that the stabilizing AI backed off. Why would it do that every time, anyway?

>can't be sentient(sapient), too much processing power needed
Hey, what if the Ring Shell's AI is really the only AI in the box? Like, it's the brain and all the contestants are sub-processes running in it under different variables? The Ring Shell could have a lot of processing time by running this way since it would be able to make no-brainer choices for everyone at once and only have to really make individual choices when there are hard choices or important environmental/personality factors.

>I used the force new start function, and that seemed to fix the issue.
Did you do that more than once? Like around cycle 1000-something? Also, did anything else of note happen during the cycle had to use that function on? Like perhaps did your stabilizing AI get disrupted? Did you code anything in to protect your AI?

Accept her bet. It's a win-win scenario for you. If something interesting happens, you won't mind losing the bet, will you?
No. 759231 ID: bfb318
File 147936012503.png - (31.53KB , 800x800 , 23.png )

>Maybe the cycles aren't completely self contained, and some form of information is passing into future cycles.
They certainly aren't, although in an ideal run time, they effectively would be.

>Do you still have data on the anomaly for the cycles it didn't complete?
Yes, we log everything, and I confirm that we still have empty hard drive space for the happenings in Block C and the RS.

I have Momu look up the anomaly of overly generous game theory. She says she's looked into that, and explains that more often than not, the anamoly dies in either stage 3 or stage 7. The former due to another strong performer, the latter due to the simple fact that that stage has a 99.9% mortality rate anyways.

>Do we have any way of testing for that?
Unfortunately, not easily. Moving from one cycle to the next is something the RS operates, and while I have spent countless days trying to read what the RS is doing, I haven't got far.

>Did you force-start around cycle 1000-something?
No. I noticed cycles around then got strangely influenced, and I have some bugged information on the cycle, but the RS did not seem to get affected differently. I would have been worried, but after a few weeks, it fixed itself.

>Did you code anything in to protect your AI?
No. Block B should be isolated from Block C, still, so even if they are damaged in Block C, their origin, B, should remain untouched.

>Did your stabilizing AI get disrupted?
Aside from the corruptions, its presence in the stages has been eradicated a couple of times. I've looked, but it didn't seem like the RS reacted, or at least, if it did, it was such a minor change that I never could find it.

>They are smarter than you.
I'm sure, but I don't believe they are self aware, much like a calculator can do a hundred thousand calculations in the time it takes me to do one, but I'm aware of one more calculation than it is.

>What if it's one AI controlling a trillion others
It's - I can't rule that out, at least not from a literal standpoint.

Yet from what Dr. Fletch has told me, the initial one trillion AI share many thought process to save on computing speed, and then slowly become more independent. Plus, Block B has individual entries for all included AI. I suppose it's still possible that it's just one computer system dividing its thoughts and just uses Block B as a guide on how to divide them, but they can definitely be thought of as individuals on some level. I can't help but think of the computer like the hive, and the AI like individual neumono, but that may be more projection than logic.

>Brief overview of the whole process from beginning to end, what each of the boxes do, and how much of what's in there is from the original ancient belenosian work?
Block D contains the RS, and the platform where the active CAI sits on. It's essentially the operating system, plus the active CAI. Block B stores the base AI in its pure form. Block C is where all of these attempt cycles take place. Block A acts as the primary processor, as well as the physical wrapping box the other blocks fit in.

Block B is largely customized, either stuff my hive has added, or things aliens added. It's the most solved and simple block. Block C is largely customized by Momu, but only on the surface level. There are lots of unknown functions that get the cycles running.
Block A is unchanged, and studying that is a field for hardware specialists.
Block D is also unchanged. It's been cracked, but that just means we can observe it.

We don't have a good idea if this was common tech in the belenosian empire, or just a cutting edge experiment. Dr. Fletch thinks this might have been an obscene piece to the times, which had very strong notions of one body, one AI.

Once a CAI is made, blocks B and C seem to have minimal activity, but Block D won't work without Block B and C.

>Would you even have time to pull the plug [on the RS]?
Maybe, but we also have a program that can detect major damages on the RS, and it's designed to pause the simulation. However, I'm not entirely sure how the detection works, and how well it pauses the simulation, but since the RS is irreplaceable, there's little choice but to use it.

>Does [Parallel Unregistered found] always happen in hyperactive cycles?
I said common, but it's more than common. There's only been a couple times where this error message didn't occur, and there was effectively no corruptor activity that cycle. The message itself means there was AIs - rudimentary AIs the corruptor made - that all share the exact same values.

>Don't you think it's a bit odd that the corrupting AI seems to produce exactly twice as much corruption in hyperactive cycles?
I used the 1-10 scale arbitrarily.

The hyperactive cycles aren't just double the amount of corruption that occurs. It's more like it's exponential.

Still don't know why. A lot of guesses, not much evidence.

>Plus we should have a test server to transfer [morse code user] to if possible
If it's an AI, I don't have anything it can use. If it's not an AI... then I don't see how it can use morse code.

"Bet accepted."
"You should sleep. The interesting stuff will start happening tomorrow morning."
>"Only if you do it too!"
"I woke up after you did."
>"By 10."
"... Fine. I need to check on Rihhin, anyway."

I say that, but I continue watching the ring shell with no UI. Dr. Fletch says it's sometimes important to do so to understand its language. His analogy spoke of studying a foreign language that uses a different character set. One should use the foreign alphabet, not the foreign alphabet translated to native letters.

Blocks do not seem like they should move around like sludge, but that is what the RS seems to do.
No. 759232 ID: bfb318
File 147936016533.png - (25.94KB , 800x800 , 24.png )

I leave to go where I believe Rihhin is. Working on weapons AI, with Norr supplying her with direction.

>"What's up, Likol?" Rihhin asks, while Norr mentally greets me, and I to him.
"Just checking. You usually don't stay out of the lab all day."
>"Momu was in there, so..."

It's fine, of course.
Anything new?


>"Geez, we're making AI for weapons with no quality control. My AI has to be able to learn every unique weapon to be useful. I'd rather be making AI for our weapons.
We're working on it."
>"Oh, Likkol, Reon wanted to check out the lab. We got clearance from the Su'ata. Mind if he gets a one day pass to check out what you guys do tomorrow?"

Rihhin appreciates the stop in, but she is busy after all.
No. 759234 ID: 595d54

Headpat Rihhin. What's Reon like?
No. 759239 ID: 094652

NUZZLE Rihhin.
No. 759243 ID: 398fe1

Reon stopping by tomorrow would be perfect. The current cycle is a little different than usual so something worth seeing might happen.
No. 759245 ID: 395c02

Sounds good.

Probably obligatory at this point. Though now I wonder how many hivemates you have to headpat before someone comes up to you for that express purpose...
No. 759252 ID: edee29

>more often than not, the anamoly dies in either stage 3 or stage 7
I meant in the large gaps specifically, but that's good to know.

Do the contestants constantly run stages, or do they get rest periods between them to relax and socialize?

>Reon wanted to check out the lab
Sure, he can come by.
No. 759257 ID: bfb318
File 147936384195.png - (18.20KB , 800x800 , 25.png )

>Do the contestants constantly run stages, or do they get rest periods between them to relax and socialize?
Assuming that no stages end up in strange deadlocks between contestants, they will spend more time in a relaxing, pressureless area than actively completing stages.

The thought of headpatting Rihhin crosses my mind.

Its rejection is swift this time, and does not make it to any thoughts of nuzzling. The generational gap includes more than just attitude.

"I do not know Reon well. Tell me about him."
>"Imagine Momu level energy and enthusiasm, but instead of outwardly energetic, he can swallow his energy."
"Choking on enthusiasm, then."
>"That's one way to put it. There's no problem, right?"
"I'm not expecting anything major tomorrow, so even if he would get in the way, there would be nothing to get in the way of. Tomorrow would be good, in fact, especially since we have some good examples of AI to show."
>"Cool. Don't worry about initiation, I'll show him how to enter and exit the place and give him a one day pass."
"One day?"
>"Hive or not, Su'ata still know we're made up of individuals. Don't want any more keycards floating around than necessary."

Even if we also need our faces, eyes, and voice...

I remember I couldn't get in for 3 days because I had a cold.

And that's why I don't leave if I feel like I'm fighting something.

I leave, with nothing more to offer except distractions.
No. 759258 ID: bfb318
File 147936388224.png - (18.76KB , 800x800 , 26.png )


A salikai voice? Kiiu, I believe.

>"Likol! I was hoping to see a neumono of importance, and you're right there instead of in your laboratory. Do you have a moment to speak?"
>"I'm making my rounds, as it is beneficial to keep track of all of our little projects we have going. I'd like to hear about your CAI project."
"If there was anything new, Vanski would hear of it first, and then you, among your siblings, second."
>"Specifics, Likol! I'm sure you've been doing something? Think of it like practice of making daily reports to an investor, since you all clearly need it. This is why my father is the manager and speaks to the client, as you must understand. Oh, and if you don't feel comfortable speaking, here, I have a nice little alcove nearby that is designed for calm discussion."
No. 759268 ID: 595d54

Headpat Kiiu.

IF we're willing to give him information, which might at least be a good way to get out of Vanski's thumb, then: "Yes. The simulation is acting somewhat unusually, although in a way thus far consistent with many previous iterations. Distributions and error messages have matched a small proportion of simulations thus far, but one of my assistants is convinced it'll develop into something more unusual."

Explain in as much more detail as you feel comfortable.
No. 759271 ID: 398fe1

Progress is slow. You're dealing with heavy encryption. Today you're looking closer into how the AIs interact with eachother, in hopes it'll reveal more about the overall structure.
No. 759272 ID: 91ee5f

Jeez, we're turning Likol into Alison! The difference is instead of hugs, he's doing headpats! And he's able to ignore us when we tell him to headpat, unlike Alison, who always hugs when we tell her to!
No. 759274 ID: 285fca

If talking about it out here wouldn't violate some directive to hide certain things, from the CAI for example...

"I'm fine here, if you are. Daily reports? Given the nature of the project, I'm not sure that would be the way to arrange things most effectively. We need to be prepared for problems and opportunities, and when they occur is when we earn our keep the most, but where and when such things arise is effectively random. While we wait, all we have to do is what is now regular maintenance and observation, for which daily reports would, despite the training required, amount to "the same as last time". I was under the impression you would prefer us not to waste your time, and ours, on the equivalent of ringing a bell and shouting "all's well". We are currently tracking a note of some potential interest, but that potential has yet to manifest, and may not."

>Think of it like practice of making daily reports to an investor, since you all clearly need it.
>Offers you a place to be concealed from monitors.

I think the salikai might suspect your concerns with your hive's future.
No. 759276 ID: bfb318
File 147936574247.png - (16.85KB , 800x800 , 27.png )

"Alright. The current cycle is unusual but not abnormal. Distributions and error messages have matched a small proportion of simulations thus far. One of my assistants is convinced things will develop into something more abnormally, although I'm more cautious in my optimism."
>"Does it mean there will be progress?"
"If it's abnormal? It will pave the way to more progress, but we're dealing with encryption the world has not been able to get far into despite huge teams devoted to the cause."
>"Yes, but they aren't doing what we're doing, are they?"

He starts skittering towards me.

"No caffiene please, but otherwise yes."

He makes some clicking noise to the arkot, then the arkot goes presumably to get me a drink.

It starts climbing over Kiiu instead of going around. Its bare feet practically kick the salikai before it manages to roll over and land with a soft thud. It scampers off without noticing Kiuu looking at it like it's never going to be seen again.

Kiiu turns back to me. By now, a few hivemates are watching me from the windows, making sure I'm doing alright but not wishing to intervene if they don't have to.

>"Is there anything we can give you that might help? This is our longest project by far, we'd hate for things to reach a dead end. Or any questions about what you are doing. I cannot promise you I'll answer anything, but I will promise you that there will be no retribution for any pointed questions, even if I don't answer it. So please, ask away."
"I hope you weren't suggesting daily reports. Given the nature - "
>"No, no, just to think of this like a daily report. Not to make them, of course. What other questions?"
No. 759277 ID: 595d54

Headpat the arkot.

"Right at this moment, I can't think of anything other than more processing power. I've considered a couple of novel methods of dealing with the simulations, but the reason I didn't implement them was that, frankly, they're not likely enough to work to be worth the resources. However, even if more unorthodox methods fail to yield results, more processing power would at least speed things.

And now that we're being offered additional resources, I'm sure that we can think of something more creative and less expensive than just exponentially more computation by tomorrow. As I said, my assistant has ideas and many other hivemates have creative new ideas in different fields. With the sort of nanobots that make up bioarmor being possible, we may even be able to think of some sort of biology-based solution."
No. 759279 ID: 398fe1

Hmm, how about... if Vanski eventually decides your hive isn't worth the resources he's spending on it, would he take you in? At least, those neumono who aren't involved in top secret projects.
No. 759280 ID: 285fca

"Hmm. Well, right now, I'm concerned that you're concerned with our progress. I'm sure you know, as I'm sure was known when the project began, that whether or not we make progress is not entirely within our control. That could theoretically change, if we had tools allowing us to better observe the internal processes of the system, to communicate with AIs in the system, or to make significant adjustments without needing an arch-cycle restart. I assume, however, that those tools aren't available, or I would have heard of them from Arza Fletch. We might also be able to make more sense of the readings we get if we had a clearer understanding of what additions and modifications were made to the system besides our own, and what the intentions behind those adjustments were. We might also, possibly, be able to produce more satisfying results if exactly what you want or don't want out of the project was laid out, to direct our attentions."
No. 759282 ID: 285fca

"If I'm dreaming of ideal resources, what would be most useful would be another set of CAI boxes, with a duplicate system that could be run at the same time, as a control for whatever adjustments are made to the other, as proper scientific method would require. I doubt the likelihood of that, however. Thinking of the scientific method, however, the concept of peer review comes to mind. More contact and communication with other scientists performing similar research, like Fletch, would potentially help us make sense of our own work."
No. 759283 ID: b412df

It's too early for big plays like that, stick to just helping the project for now. Even if no retribution was emphasised, we don't want them to know we're looking for a escape.

This, better understanding of the system we're working with will be helpful.
No. 759284 ID: 285fca

Another idea: If any have been recovered and reverse engineered enough to be functional, ancient belenosian tools for interfacing with this ancient belenosian system could reveal things that our current tools can't. But again, I'd assume (Dr? Professor?) Fletch would already be tracking such developments.
No. 759285 ID: 398fe1

>we don't want them to know we're looking for a escape.
Well I mean if we emphasize that it's not an escape but a place to go if Vanski doesn't want them anymore, it'd go over a bit better. Besides the hive doesn't really want to leave they're just nervous about getting betrayed and killed off.
No. 759286 ID: 398fe1

Wait, can we even speak openly here about the research? The CAI can't hear us here can it?
No. 759289 ID: 3abd97

Not sure what salikai and/or science hive weapons we've seen that need their own AIs. They sure don't seem to use smart guns. Maybe the companion AIs for the greenie armor (like Bell, except she came from Katzati and somewhere else), or maybe it's targeting AIs for the auto-turrets?

>Its rejection is swift this time, and does not make it to any thoughts of nuzzling. The generational gap includes more than just attitude.
She rejected the thought, or you self-censored?

Hey, look, more dead characters.

You should indulge him a little, Likol. You raised the idea with Quokko earlier of trying to win over some of the Su'ata kids, even if you're losing favor with Vanski himself. Part of that probably means talking to them.

And sure, he's probably looking for an advantage over his siblings by getting advance information, but that's to be expected.

(...also, Kiiu was by far the most reasonable and responsible of the salikai. If Rokoa hadn't killed him I think Polo could have kept working with him, maybe even tried to prop him up against the more unpleasant factions of his family).

>Is there anything we can give you that might help?
If we could somehow convince Arza Fletch to come on board that would greatly accelerate things, but as things are we have had to conceal the extent of our research from him. He would disapprove of what we're doing on a moral or philosophical level.

A tool like the CAI itself would be fantastic for analyzing the data and accelerating the results, except of course we cannot trust the CAI with detailed information about it's own inner workings and strive to keep it out of the lab at all costs. Not that I am advocating this change, but is a significant irony.
No. 759305 ID: edee29

>Is there anything we can give you that might help?
Every species has its own neurological quirks. Having someone who is not a Neumono to offer their perspective on the data could be helpful.

Hmm... on the subject of making a better CAI, I don't think taking the first group to come through is the best way to go about it. There's too much luck involved. Running the contest numerous times to see which AIs are likely to finish and then making a CAI out of your personal favourites seems better. Like, for Vanski's case, taking the ones on the administrative track that never jump ship and enter the stage area. Maybe grab that anomaly, too, to have an AI that's good at dealing with people. The others that are allowed in can temper any rebellious tendencies it might have.
No. 759310 ID: 850f11

First move this meeting to somewhere the Cai can't listen.

Well I have several ideas to improve things but they would require a large change in our current direction of research.

Our current methodology while effective is extremely slow. It's like we set a ant farm on a dictionary and are watching it through a telescope waiting for it to start building letters out of sand to talk with us. Eventually we might get results and we learn a lot from watching the ants but is not the info we want.

While Arza thinks our methods are "unethical" they are probably not unethical enough if we want results faster. We can't make any major changes to our methods for fear of breaking the current Cai. Any time I have a great idea for speeding things up I realize its not worth the risk of breaking our only set of creation blocks.

So here is some stuff that we could use to speed things along.

1. A test server to pull out and isolate Ai's before they are packaged. If we can extract one or more of the promising contestants and look through there memories we could find the traits Vanski is looking for.

2. A second D block so we could spin up a new Cai off the current cycle without erasing the old one. I know getting another one is unlikely but if we had it we could actually spin up new Cai's to test every week. Then we could compare data from earlier and hand pick what Ai seeds go into the new Cai.

3. Scheduling a meeting with Arza would be nice. Keeping him in the dark would be tricky but he is the best Ai tech. Maybe we should let him in on what we are doing? I know he suspects it already. But maybe we could lure him onto the team with the promise of giving him his "children" back if he fixed our problem. Would give him a incentive to help solve things quickly.

4. More opportunities to research on the current Cai. I shudder at the thought of letting it get to close to its core but we should get a team set up to study its mannerisms. Our ultimate goal is to get a Cai full of Ai's that would be eager to work for our organization. But we can't do so without finding out what our current ai's individual personalities are like. If we can learn more about our current Cai members then we can cross reference them to there originals in the contest.
No. 759378 ID: 285fca

Sorry to be a distraction, but I was thinking on that sentience question some more. Sentient/sapient beings aren't really that way all the time, are they? For the most part, most people follow a routine in their daily actions, interactions and thought. They get "trained" by the habits of their life and work and follow that, most of the time. And, most of the time, the things sentient beings do and think about aren't that much different from non-sentient life, just with layers of removal. Instead of "find food", it's "find work, to get money, to get food", which is a level of abstraction but not really much different than an animal trained to do tricks for treats. Same for concerns about survival, about one's position in a pack heirarchy, et cetera. Most of the time, what people are thinking is just observation, processing and puzzle solving, which is a matter of intelligence but not of the qualities of sentience or sapience, really. People have the capacity for sentience, but they don't use it all the time, or even most of the time. Like how a person who can be very smart sometimes isn't necessarily smart all the time or in relation to all things. Some people do think complex sentient thoughts a lot, but for most people, their sentience/sapience only really comes into play when something unusual happens, something that defies their normal habits/training, something that makes them have to rev up that sentience engine and really think complicated thoughts. And all of this makes sense, evolutionarily speaking. Braining takes energy, and overcomplicated thoughts can distract from immediate concerns. Synaptic pruning and all that, you know. It's important not to think too much as it is to not think too little. So... for an AI, the energy and processing demands of sentience can be streamlined a lot, too. Simple capacity for sentience wouldn't take up as much power as being sentient all the time.

... There's some excessive thoughts for you, right there.

I hope the medical team kept trying after their failure. It might be too late for Vanski's mate, but producing a cure for the condition afterwards would at least demonstrate they were earnestly trying, and it could be marketed to other salikai who have or might develop the same condition.
No. 759390 ID: 3abd97

>Every species has its own neurological quirks. Having someone who is not a Neumono to offer their perspective on the data could be helpful.
Basically giving the salikai an open invitation to poke around the lab right when stuff (Likol doesn't know is going to happen) starts to go down could backfire on us.
No. 759400 ID: 285fca


Well, adding just one extra type of mind to the process wouldn't do much, so it'd be easy to argue we need a variety.

The justification is simple: aliens are aliens and their brains work in different ways, their thoughts follow different patterns. We neumono can come up with ideas, solutions and opportunities that a member of another species wouldn't even think to consider, and vice versa others for us. A few visits by a range of alien scientists, now and then, could pick up on things we haven't noticed.
No. 759419 ID: bfb318
File 147942472908.png - (14.18KB , 800x800 , 28.png )

>I hope the medical team kept trying after their failure.
I believe they attempted, but the mood handed to us was too little, too late.

While we talk, we start moving away from the CAI's ears and eyes before anything particularly sensitive is said.

"More processing power would speed things up, but would take a lot of effort and resources."
>"Yes, that is troublesome."
"And it's the most realistic resource needed to help more. Otherwise, another set of CAI blocks would be helpful."

He smiles like I just told a joke. To be fair, it would be like finding a second holy grail.

>"Yes, that would be troublesome."
"I'm concerned you're concerned with our project."
>"It is our concern, as a team, isn't it? But you need not stress it. We knew the risks of this experiment. We'd be disappointed if it didn't yield anything, but you made it clear to all that nothing could be promised."
"It would be nice to see what is going on in Block C. I presume no ancient belenos interface software is found, and then assume we would have software from Dr. Fletch if he created some."
>"You assume much! Such software would be invaluable to simply hand to us for free. He only gives us updates to what already exists, and what we pry from him with deals. What I can tell you, however, is that if he does have such software in his hands, he has withheld them from the surface worlds just as much as he's withheld them from us. What would you do with such software, anyways? I thought you were focused on the RS."
"The internal AIs may be aware of more than one cycle. Especially if my own creation inside is talkative. They may try to break out, and they may become aware of Block D. I would like to know this. Although their language appears to be through the RS, it's english translated through the RS. If they manage to figure out how to get past that, we can communicate with them. Ultimately, it would be nice to be able to extract an AI out of the existing CAI if ones like that are found, which is why I would dream of a new set of CAI blocks. No mundane technology, even the quantum computer, can extract the AI with the memories, not without managing to decode the RS perfectly."
>"Mm... yes, we've talked about this before. You said it was simply a fantastical idea that the AI would ever be able to translate the RS, didn't you?"
"I did, but the more years go by, the more dice are rolled, the more the contestants may know, and the more likely it becomes."
>"Is that so. Well, we have had interest in managing to extract AIs with their memories intact, but making a software to do so is even harder than cracking a CAI block, diidn't you say? What did you say when it came to manually decoding just the parts of a single AI?"

The tea arrives. The teabag has been left in for a quarter of how long it should have been, and in lukewarm water.

>"To your satisfaction?"
"Yes. Anyways, making a software would take decades for a large team. More even, since it hasn't happened yet. A software for it would require a staggeringly robust system, as it seems like the RS was meant to be read by brains more easily than by artificial algorithms. Therefore, manually extracting one AI... in theory it's possible, and the only reason it hasn't been done - and why the RS is so incomprehensible to begin with - is because there's no way to tell where in the RS the AI is, since everything is spread out and dissipated. If the AI was able to broadcast where all its little specks are while it travelled to the CAI for processing... then it would take months, or years, of constant focus. But it would be feasible. It would mean leaving my current project alone. Even then, the slightest mistake in decoding it from the RS would mean a flawed AI."
>"Yes, now I remember this conversation. We stopped it there if I recall, but I'll tell you now, that that sounds worth the time and risk, for an AI we can control that understands the RS."
"It would be easier to just ask its help, if it's willing."
>"And there's the question. Willing? We've put them through hell, I'm sure. Their experiences are the important part, and yet, it's the thing that makes them uncooperative! After all, we can't trust our own CAI, and they don't even remember their inception."
"It is ironic we can't use the CAI, since it would go so much faster. It may help to at least have us study the CAI mannerisms."
>"The latter part of that can be arranged and assisted with, absolutely. But for it looking directly at the RS? Well! Arza Fletch has hinted that CAI has built in safeguards against learning about itself, though we'd rather not test them. Still, even if we did, we'd have to trust their explanation. We'd rather have a fully decompiled AI that we can change and control help us, instead, if you by yourself are having so much trouble brute forcing the problem. This is all something that would have to be played by ear though, isn't it?"
"It is unlikely an AI would learn how to speak to us, yes."
>"And it would make us nervous. I'm nervous just hearing you say it's possible for it to happen! What if it could make its own changes to the RS after learning its language? No, I think if such a scenario unfolds, you will extract the AI and, with a fast translation for the RS, we would consider the experiment a success, and shut down this archcycle for good."
"I thought part of its reason was as a deadman switch against the CAI."
>"It was merely a side benefit. There are far cleaner and efficient deadman switches we can use instead. Let's just talk about this if it ends up a reality instead of hypthetical fantasies, could we, instead of having this similar conversation once every couple of years?"
"That's fine." I think of what else. "I would like to get Dr. Fletch's assistance in person at some point. Or perhaps another specialist, if possible."
>"We will arrange what we can for that, preferably with Arza, and let you know."
No. 759430 ID: 595d54

Tell him you'll get to work. If you think of anything else that could be useful, how should you contact him?
No. 759431 ID: 398fe1

Hey, if you're going to stop this archcycle after extracting an AI, don't just leave the contestants in limbo forever. I'm sure you can arrange some way for the block to run without endangering the CAI.
No. 759437 ID: edee29

This conversation confirms it. On the Making of the Cai definitely hasn't been written yet, which means Likol isn't working on the current archcycle. Someone must have decided to attempt to recreate his breakthrough.
No. 759438 ID: 285fca

>it seems like the RS was meant to be read by brains more easily than by artificial algorithms.

... Perhaps you should try connecting a brain to the RS more... directly?

We are reasonably certain that the ancient belenosians had brain interface technology, generally for uploading organic minds into an artificial body. Perhaps this system was intended to have some similar function. Or even to somehow download artificial minds into organic bodies, for some purpose. Have an AI learn skills in a simulation, then download to an organic mind to give them those skills? Or perhaps to deal with cybernetics in some way. Perhaps there were augmentations for organics that needed an AI to run, requiring their user to carry a passenger AI in their own brain. Or perhaps someone was testing a way to restore a digitized mind to an organic body. Perhaps some ancient belenosian noble regretted their transition to an artificial body, and intended to return themselves to a clone of their original. Or something else. There are surely lots of reasons that someone would have been interested in a direct two-way connection between an AI simulation world and a brain.

A rather gruesome theory, but worth investigating. How to make the interface is a question. What connections would the system be expecting, and to what? Perhaps the brain itself would have to be given the ability to form the connections, "organically". Some sort of nanite colony under their control? You would need to find a very special, adaptable brain. It may not be possible. But investigations along this direction might reveal something, even if they're not taken all the way to the theoretical end result.
No. 759452 ID: 211d83

"Thank you Kiiu. I will let you know if anything big happens."

Although if a AI ever did learn to talk with us and control the Ring shell that could be our way out of this mess. Make friends with the newly born Ai and have it secretly help you on the back end to escape.

So if you ever do make a breakthrough be careful about letting anyone know. It sounds like the Salikai are scared enough of the system to just kill any Ai's that get that far.

We might want to change the early warning system slightly so if a breakthrough does happen only you and your team will know. If the sound alarms start going off its going to be hard to pass it off as a false positive. And the second the Salikai get news of the alarm going off they will be all over your work and forcing you to do god knows what.

Can we change the warning system to transmit on ultra low frequencies or something? So only your watch can pick up the signal if it goes off?
No. 759453 ID: 3abd97

>Hard to trust an AI you extracted from a hell you created
Have you read Dune? Look at the model the Emperor used to win the loyalty of his Sardaukar. You can use that kind of environmental background to breed fanatical loyalty, if framed and presented right. Totally a salikai move.

Alternatively, you need to extract a statistically significant sample to work with, so you can play them against each other / don't have to trust one to be accurate without confirmation from other sources.

>which means Likol isn't working on the current archcycle
Not possible. From logs, and from confirmation with Likol now, we know a cycle takes 3 days to run through. There's only 4 years between now and Polo hitting the base (and Penn and Arza coming to interfere a little bit before that). That's not enough time to get back up to 3119 before this place goes under. If they restart right now they'd get a little less than 500 cycles in the new arch cycle before the end.

What's the contradiction you're seeing in the CAI-sim-book you're referencing? I'm having trouble finding it. (Honestly tho, if the sources the simulation gives the AIs contradict the CAI engineers, I'd bet on the side of the sim being inaccurate / misleading the contestants).
No. 759457 ID: edee29

Here it is: >>/questarch/445370
Also, I got the title wrong. The book was called The Invention of the CAI. I'm specifically referring to the part about memory wipes being "standard" rather than being incapable of allowing them to retain their experiences. The book's description of the experiment doesn't quite match up to what Likol's doing, but neither does the fact that Alisons have actually talked to their CAI before the reboot happens, so either someone lies about what Likol's experiment entails or a third one is run at some point.

And you're assuming the cycle we know of if around during Polo's feud with the Salikai, and not in the time of Asteroid Quest proper.
No. 759461 ID: 398fe1

It's possible the CAI knows exactly what's going on and just isn't telling Vanski. Or the RS safeguard kicks in immediately after they talk to the final four.
No. 759469 ID: edee29

I've considered that Likol is misunderstanding what is happening in the RS and the contestants really are meeting the CAI, and that could still be happening, but the contradictions with the book on top of that are a bit much for me without some direct proof.

I don't believe the book is fake, so the only alternative that I can think of is that it's somehow from the Ancient Belenosian era. It also has a major curiosity in that the later pages have been defaced: >>/questarch/445381
No. 759476 ID: 3abd97

In order to resolve that contradiction, all it requires is that Likol's setup is different enough from the standard creation described in the book. (Or that the standard process has chanced since the book was written). Or that Likol's experiment is different from the similar experiment described.

>And you're assuming the cycle we know of if around during Polo's feud with the Salikai, and not in the time of Asteroid Quest proper.
For the experiment to still be going in Asteroid time, Penn and Arza have to completely fail (since he brought / will bring her into this for the sole purpose of stopping this experiment and saving the AI he considers his children), and someone will either have to convince Vanski to hand over the experiment and/or take it from him to get it out of the facility before Polo and Az's army hit the salkai base, or someone in the base will have to cut and run with the equipment and data after the hammer comes down, and make it out past an army searching specifically for CAI tech. And it can't just go undiscovered for 50 years- it needs someone manually resetting the cycle every few days.

There's a lot of factors that makes the experiment continuing as it is past the looming multi-quest climax on the horizon unlikely at best.

>I've considered that Likol is misunderstanding what is happening in the RS
He has admitted himself he doesn't understand most of what the RS is doing. And from our OOC perspective, we already know some of his assumptions are wrong.
No. 759497 ID: bfb318
File 147943589710.png - (13.31KB , 800x800 , 29.png )

"I should get back to work. Do you have a good way to contact you?"
>"Just the telephones, as always."
"I'll let you know if anything big happens, then."
>"Of course."

I hand the mug back to the arkot, and leave.

>Hey, if you're going to stop this archcycle after extracting an AI, don't just leave the contestants in limbo forever. I'm sure you can arrange some way for the block to run without endangering the CAI.
I'd have to see. Depending on how such a scenario plays out, it may or may not be tricky.

>Perhaps you should try connecting a brain to the RS more... directly?
Maybe the ancient belenos had some way to do this, but we don't. To do so would require a genius in a field, possibly both in brains and in RS.

>Alarm system giving away a breakthrough
For the time, I will reprogram the nodes and sound system to give off a noise at too low of a range for any of us, or the salikai, to hear. The other three, or four if Reon is still interested and around, will be kept quiet so we can study a breakthrough ourselves first.

We can't keep secrets for long, though. Sometimes the salikai bring neumono guards from afar, not arkots. They will not be happy if we kept a secret, too.

>You can use an extreme environmental background to breed fanatical loyalty
It would not surprise me if the salikai did this, although we would need to set up a new archcycle.

I get back to the laboratory and take one last look. They're still working through stage 2. This one takes the longest. Despite having half the amount of people as stage one, it requires far more thought process than walking through a door.

I spend some time reprogramming the node. I get to sleep with Momu a few minutes after 10.
No. 759498 ID: bfb318
File 147943591371.png - (32.92KB , 800x800 , 30.png )

Then wake up to the smell of a pre-prepared breakfast at about 5 in the morning. At 6, Reon shows up, and we take a few hours to show him everything.

>"This is... so goddamn cool!"
>"I know!" Momu says back to him.
>"I thought it was just going to be spending 10 hours wondering why an AI did one particular decision but this is awesome!"

I hear my hive has a more noticeable gap in generational attitudes, but I still wonder if this is why we die at later ages despite no apparent reason to do so. If we were immortal, our cynical, tired attitudes would drown out this enthusiasm. Momu is getting older, too, and I wonder how long her enthusiasm will hold out.

>"Likol are you thinking depressing things again?! It's been almost 48 hours since you started! They're done with the preliminaries! Stuff is happening!"
"Yes, it is."

Teaching Reon some more takes longer than anticipated, as I have to clarify some things about the introductory book he read, The Invention of the Cai. Arza Fletch was no a genius of writing, or perhaps communication in general. Plus, as few peers as he has now, he had virtually none back when this was written, which lead to many misleading statements. For instance, he wrote it was 'standard' to wipe the memories of cai. In a sense that's true, in that there were likely various ways to make a CAI in the belenosian imperical days. This is the one we found, however, and without a way to make widescale changes to what goes on through the RS, what's 'standard' is what we're stuck with.

We get interrupted by excitement from Momu.


Urgh. Reon is concerned by my agitation, but it isn't something to dwell over. What initially started as a point of keen interest slowly turned into a point of unsolvable frustration. CAI fights aren't just something that shouldn't happen, they're something that should be impossible. They only happen in hyperactive cycles, yet should be outside of the range of the corruptor's and even the stabilizer's abilities.
No. 759499 ID: 595d54

Headpat Reon.

Explain that your agitation isn't anything major and that this is a chance to observe something unexpected.
No. 759500 ID: 595d54

Wait Reon is in the hive isn't he? Definitely headpats, then.
No. 759502 ID: 398fe1

>CAI Fight only happens in hyperactive cycles, is supposed to be impossible
You realize that that is a clear indication hyperactive cycles are unique? Your stabilizer isn't just backing off, and the corruptor isn't just more active. Something new pops up that is far far more corruptive but also somehow able to do impossible things. Or enables the corruptor to do more and impossible things. Have you eliminated the possibility that an emergent AI spawns from a corrupted stabilizer? Like, have you counted the number of IDs in 3118 and compared them to the number of IDs at the start of 3119? Or between other hyperactive cycles and the cycle before them?

>generation gap
Has it always been this way?
No. 759507 ID: edee29

>should be outside of the range of the corruptor's and even the stabilizer's abilities
What did you and Rihhin do to make those two? Are they just regular contestants with some special functions attached to do their jobs, or is there something fundamentally different about them? If they do just have special functions, how did you attach those functions?

And if there is something fundamentally different about them, then could they do special things without utilizing what functions they do have?
No. 759515 ID: 3abd97

>"I thought it was just going to be spending 10 hours wondering why an AI did one particular decision but this is awesome!"
Lowered expectations sure do make the cool stuff cooler, don't they.

>They only happen in hyperactive cycles, yet should be outside of the range of the corruptor's and even the stabilizer's abilities.
Then logically, somehow your anomaly created by corrupting the stabilizer in previous cycles must be responsible. It has access to things neither of its progenitors does. Some kind of glitch or overlapping of authorizations?

>they're something that should be impossible
How is something coded right into the simulation impossible? Didn't Arza put his own image in one?

The only impossibility is they're not supposed to be able to trigger them, which just means something is getting access in a way you didn't anticipate.

>what do
How long do CAI battles take? Is there any way to observe them, track how they're going, or learn anything from them?
No. 759518 ID: 398fe1

I'll point out here that Likol doesn't even realize there's an anomaly in hyperactive cycles. He doesn't know that Glitcher exists. The anomalous AI he's spoken about is the one that is overly generous but still survives. Alison.
No. 759529 ID: 285fca

Better make sure all the recording and monitoring equipment and such is in place and running, anyway. You probably have it set up anyway, but double check.
No. 759530 ID: 398fe1

Oh! The IDs and being able to see what IDs see other IDs gives me an idea. Is there an ID that shows up as being seen by other IDs during a hyperactive cycle that isn't seen in future or prior cycles?
No. 759538 ID: 211d83

Well thinking that something is impossible when its happening right in front of you is silly. So now you all work together to find out whats going on.

You say they should not happen due to either entity not having the power to start them. But what if those two entities are working together? Or what if when they fight it changes something in that cycle that makes it possible for a third party to start a Cai battle?

Have you ever checked to see if the Corruptor and Stabilizer are creating new programs as a side effect of there fighting? Maybe there are side effects that happen when one wins over the other. Could the system have residual effects when it wipes them both clean for the next round?

Have your team start looking for evidence that would support one of those theories. You said that there is a pattern to the hyperactive cycles. Maybe the pattern goes deeper than you think or is creating something new ever few cycles.
No. 759546 ID: 285fca

Hmm. Tell us about the in-built regulating system. It uses AIs that are very similar to the actual contestants, right? What sort of things can it do?

Anyway, why did Arza add in CAI fight programs if they were never supposed to be activated?
No. 759549 ID: e6e9af

>Outside the range of corruptor and stabilizer's abilities.

But what if ... there was something even more powerful? Like, a super-AI. It could be masquerading as Rihhin's corruptor, and you would only see it as a "hyperactive cycle" of anomalies, right?
No. 759553 ID: 595d54

The admins or what the CAI uses to stop itself from getting introspective?
No. 759583 ID: bfb318
File 147944694511.png - (30.41KB , 800x800 , 31.png )

>Well thinking that something is impossible when its happening right in front of you is silly.
It is, but that's why it's frustrating. Having all evidence point to impossible, but it happens anyway.

>You realize that that is a clear indication hyperactive cycles are unique?
Unique is one of a kind.

This has happened a lot of times before. It's unusual, but more is needed before it can be called unique. Momu recognizes this too, since she doesn't think she's won her bet yet.

>Something new pops up that is far far more corruptive but also somehow able to do impossible things.
>The IDs and being able to see what IDs see other IDs gives me an idea.
There might be. It's been awhile since I've found evidence, but sometimes it seems like some contestants interact with parts of stages that shouldn't be interactive. Without being able to figure out the details, I've had to presume that they're just further corruptions confusing contestants, but I can't rule out much.

>Have you ever checked to see if the Corruptor and Stabilizer are creating new programs as a side effect of there fighting?
Not impossible, either, but no reason to make this the prime suspicion.

>It could be masquerading as Rihhin's corruptor
As a subprocess? Two AIs occupying the same ID? No, it couldn't be the latter. I hadn't thought about the former, though.

>Have your team start looking for evidence that would support one of those theories.
That's what we've been doing for decades.

>Have you eliminated the possibility that an emergent AI spawns from a corrupted stabilizer? Like, have you counted the number of IDs in 3118 and compared them to the number of IDs at the start of 3119?
I haven't eliminated an emergent AI from the equation, but I can say with 100% certainty that if these anomalies are caused by an AI, then it has no ID.

The other possibility is the fact that the administration brackets can make pleas to change stages. This should still not allow for CAI fights, however. They should, by all right, be off limits.

>Has it always been this way?
It's always been there to a degree, but it has raised more ever since uplift.

>Are they just regular contestants with some special functions attached to do their jobs
That's correct. Block C is ordered to give their IDs special abilities, but if one were to look at them in Block B, they would be indistinguishable from their neighbors.

>How long do CAI battles take?
It varies, but anywhere between half an hour to three hours.

>Is there any way to observe them, track how they're going, or learn anything from them?
Not any better, or worse, than regular stages. They're just one of the things that are easy to detect upon activation.

>Why did Arza add in CAI fight programs if they were never supposed to be activated?
In some Block C builds, CAI fights are allowed, but we've been able to customize that and barred it, rather than remove it.

>Tell us about the in-built regulating system. It uses AIs that are very similar to the actual contestants, right? What sort of things can it do?
The administration bracket? That's an attempt from another company to build a more 'idealized, modifiable' bracket from scratch, more or less, to result in a CAI that was more about management than general problem solving.

It does use the same AI builds as the problem stages, but they're each assigned to a specific variety of jobs, and progress as per a more subjective, but obviously quantifiable, ruleset, which can be changed to favor different kinds of management types.

They can, again given a specific ruleset, change the stages for the contestants under them. Nonetheless, this should be limited to just the existing stages themselves, and not initiate things like CAI fights, or do sweeping changes beyond the default stage layout.

Momu starts showing him the IDs that made it into the CAI fight. The generosity anomaly, and an administrator that regularly makes it to stage 8 or 9, but has trouble if the anomaly doesn't make it that far as well.

The fight ends, and the generosity anomaly is killed off, the resilient administrator continues to stage 7.

>"Oh wow, like a million additional AIs from the sim - the belenos one - just got put up on the roster. You can bet ol' 17 did that!" she says, referring to the last two digits of said anomaly. "Annnnd oh my goooood they're on 7-J."

That one takes a few hours by itself. It has never had anything interesting happen in it.

3 hours pass of continuing to talk about the basic things with Reon.

At 7 PM, just after dinner, Reon starts getting antsy.

"So, uh, do you guys usually work all day? It almost feels like you're going to be pulling an all nighter, here."
No. 759585 ID: 595d54

No. 759586 ID: 211d83

Well not always but we do have a bet going on this cycle. So might as well stay around to see how things go.

You want to get in on the bet?
No. 759592 ID: e22b1d

If a Id less entity is doing impossible things do you have any systems or tools that could help track just it? Or if not it maybe the ripples it has on other entities inside there?

Or maybe find a way of giving it a id so you could track what its doing?

Mention your theory to Momu and Reon and find out if they have any ideas.
No. 759594 ID: 398fe1

No, you just slept last night, and the night before, during the long-lasting preliminary stages. At this part of the simulation you don't want to miss anything so yeah you're staying up.

It should end by tomorrow, at which point you can sleep again.
No. 759607 ID: 398fe1

Oh, and keep an eye out for more AIs interacting with bits of the stage that shouldn't be interactive. Do certain IDs do that more often?
No. 759609 ID: edee29

>The generosity anomaly, and an administrator
Who usually wins between those two? Has the chance been changing as the cycles have gone on?

What are the corruptor and stabilizer doing right now? Participating in their brackets?

>all nighter
Probably. If anything interesting is going to happen, it'll be in these later stages.
No. 759613 ID: 285fca

"We don't usually, but since this is a hyperactive cycle, the chance of something interesting happening is higher. It happens, currently, that it would be good if we had something noteworthy to report, so I feel we should be paying attention. Besides, we have a bet."
No. 759615 ID: 285fca

Oh, two questions. One, do you have a way to slow down how fast time passes for the AIs, relative to the real world? It would be a shame if one of the AIs did somehow manage to send you a message, then had the system force it on through the contest to get killed before you even had a chance to try respond.

Second, you were thinking a moment ago about wishing the contests moving through the ring shell could mark themselves somehow to make them distinguishable from the rest of it. Do you have some means by which you can mark ring shell data, if you somehow noticed an anomaly before it got pulled apart/distributed through the larger mass?
No. 759642 ID: bfb318
File 147945637837.png - (18.81KB , 800x800 , 32.png )

>If a Id less entity is doing impossible things do you have any systems or tools that could help track just it
No, the ID is what allows us to track AI decently at all in the first place.

"Yes, but out of vigilance, not necessity. All nighters aren't common, but they're when interesting things occur. Or at least, when they can occur. Do either of you have any idea of how to give non-ID'd AIs an ID?"

The slowly shake their head, and I realized I asked this question like a tutor asking a student a question they should've already known. Once I catch myself, they realize I don't know either.

>Do certain IDs interact with stages more often?
Yes. They have a strong correlation with IDs that interact with the corruptor.

>Who usually wins between those two?
In recent years, the administrator.

>What are the corruptor and stabilizer doing right now? Participating in their brackets?
Yes, though the stabilizer often hides in them, while the corruptor interacts with participa-

Oh, nevermind, the corruptor just got quarantined, apparently.

>"Uhhh, Likol?" asks Momu, a bit worried.
"Quarantine is fine."
>"No, um, stage 7... it's going, and there's no active AI in there, but 7-J is still - oh wait, there it goes."
"There was a delay? Is that uncommon?"
>"I don't think so? But that's a weird one and I don't always look, and it was just for a few seconds, so, uh... huh! That's interesting!"
"An abnormality, but few cycles go by without one.
"Hm. Not enough to win the bet. But we still have one, and if there was going to be something interesting... hm. Reon, you don't need to - "

No I'm actually good for an all nighter!

I give him a headpat as soon as the thought enters my head.

Still, I just noticed that the stage seems extremely active. Normally it's difficult to detect stage activity without explicitly looking for it or having it directly affect a contestant, but the stage seems like it has a mind of its own now.

>"Welllllll?" Momu asks.
"Not yet."
No. 759643 ID: bfb318
File 147945639286.png - (30.75KB , 800x800 , 33.png )

Reon sticks around, and we all keep up surveillance. The cycle has my attention now. Stage 7 is already done. Stage 8 will be starting soon. This seems like it will be a quick cycle, since it appears the contestant ability 'ghost talk' has been eliminated, which tends to drag processing down in later stages as the few people remaining end up throwing giant parties

Stage 8 is active? Within the safe zone, at that. They aren't supposed to mix. In fact, they're two completely separate stages, just linked together.

Stage 8 finally begins. This one can be long, but it looks like it's generating a... modified one?

Stage 3 is active. Stage 1 is active. The anomaly is interacting with stage 3. And stage 8.

"Momu. Cut the quantum computer's assistance."

>One, do you have a way to slow down how fast time passes for the AIs, relative to the real world? It would be a shame if one of the AIs did somehow manage to send you a message
Yes. We can cut processing assistance entirely from our computer. Despite being a room sized processor of the latest technology, it's about as fast as Block A. Block A still keeps going, but we do have limiters on that. It will alert Vanski, however, and be telling Vanski that we at least thought something was happening.

>Do you have some means by which you can mark ring shell data
Yes, but ring shell data has a tendency to be split up across the RS, and repurposed. So if we manage to isolate a function of the RS and watch where it goes, we can see how it gets repurposed. So far the investigation's result has been an unhelpful 'completely random.' Plus, functions need to play well with one another, and attempting to tell all those shards to do its old function tends to get denied.

Still, I have to stay focused. With only a small amount of contestants remaining, this is going to be going speedily. I'd have liked a pause button, but the only way to pause it is to completely shut everything down, CAI and all. Without ghost talk no longer slowing down, and only a few contestants remaining, the rest of the cycle should be blazing -

>"Ressurectionnnn is happening it's still going it's - over one million AI's just got resurrected! They all have 100% thinking power!"

Nothing so far has been completely unique. Large scale resurrection has happened before. The non-accessible part of the ghost zone town has been accessed before. Stages have been changed.

The only unique thing here is the scale and suddenness of this. If I were easy to impress, I would have already lost the bet, but as it is, it won't take much more. We continue watching closely with the slowed down time. I give Momu permission to push the throttle on the quantum computer back up, but to keep her hand on it while it is active, so that she can cut it immediately if something happens. We wait in relative silence until Momu notices something and cuts the computer.

>"Previous cycles just activated, Likol!"

"What?!" With that word, with that feeling, I just lost the bet.

>"Stored AIs from previous cycles are getting pulled into the current cycle! There's duplicates! There's like 20 copies of your generosity anamolies here!" Momu just looked at the lifespans and pulls my attention over. The current anomaly's been active for over 200 virtual years?
No. 759644 ID: bfb318
File 147945640482.png - (33.01KB , 800x800 , 34.png )

We continue monitoring the situation, carefully letting the quantum computer speed things up. It seems as though we should take it slowly, but the two of us are too overcome with the want to see where this is all going.

Eventually, the sound of a megaphone comes on from outside the lab. It's Rihhin.

>"Hey Likol you have a surprise manager's meeting!"

Damnit! I'm considered a 'manager' only when it comes to trifling duties!

>"Something happening in there?" she says, buried under my avalanche of feeling 'why now.'
No. 759645 ID: 595d54

"Yes. Many things that would be normal by themselves are suddenly happening nearly all at once on an unprecedented scale. What is it?"
No. 759646 ID: 398fe1

Enough is happening that you'd really like to put off the meeting!
No. 759649 ID: be1222

Rihhin might want in on this! Though that risks getting the attention of the higher-ups, which risks getting involvement of the higher-ups.

If you think it'd be too risky, try and use Reon's presence as an excuse, since you're seeing "good learning examples", without playing up how much is actually happening.
No. 759651 ID: 398fe1

I don't think it will be possible to hide what's about to happen from Vanski. The best thing we can do is to make it very clear that we made a huge discovery, and then use it as a bargaining chip to ensure the hive's safety. Or, the majority of the hive anyway.
No. 759653 ID: edee29

>corruptor is quarantined
>delay in Stage 7
>weird stuff is happening
>the anomaly is involved
Okay, if there's an AI without an ID in there right now, then with the corruptor in quarantine any further hyperactive corruption activity can be pretty safely be attributed to it. Stage 7 being delayed suggests it may be acting like a contestant, so that gives us a way of looking for it. Do the records have any incidents of contestants interacting with nothing? Not contact, since you couldn't track that, but attacking, being attacked, absorption, ghost talk... abilities that need a target. Start by focusing the search on people that have had contact with the corruptor, or even the anomaly specifically, since it's already involved. Go through some other hyperactive cycle logs if this one's doesn't pan out, just to be safe.

>Something happening in there?
YES, something is happening! Which is infinitely more happening than usually happens! Because nothing ever happens!

Maybe we should just go over everyones' heads and send a message to Vanski that we can't be bothered by anything trivial right now.
No. 759663 ID: bfb318
File 147945970998.png - (33.79KB , 800x800 , 35.png )

I get my own megaphone, walk down the hall to the last door I can open before I'm considered leaving, and start speaking.

"Is it an emergency? There's things happening!"

I don't want to say much more than that, so Rihhin just gets a feel for how intense I am about this.

>"Quokko is feeling this is really important all managers are there!"

>Make it very clear that we made a huge discovery
So far though, we haven't. I'm only getting antsy because things are breaking in new ways, but thus far they're not breaking in ways that are all that helpful on their own.

>Do the records have any incidents of contestants using targets on or getting attacked by nothing?
More than I'd like. It's been another thing I haven't been able to find out. I don't have time to get in depth with that now, beyond monitoring the current siutation.

>Vanski discovering this
It will be nearly impossible to hide anything, long term, due to the neumono that sometimes come by.

Sheesh why is it you get excited for your project as soon as a mandatory meeting comes up?
Why is a mandatory meeting coming up when I get excited?!

>"I'm not a manager!" Rihhin continues. "I can watch over stuff if you want, but Quokko is considering this an emergency! She'll have my head if you're not in the meeting room in 2 minutes! I can stay here and if something really significant happens, Momu can yell at me to message you things. How's that?"
No. 759664 ID: 398fe1

There's... really no good way to justify Likol staying. That'd be disobeying an order from his Queen, basically. Tell her she better take over and start looking for evidence of an AI without an ID. If anything weird happens with the RS she better know how to mark its particles.

Once you get to the meeting beg to be excused.
No. 759666 ID: b412df

I think you might have lost the bet, or be pretty close to losing it. Argh, the one time science! is happening and not just running through the same old, you had to go to a meeting.

Bring Rihhin up to speed of what's happened, and what you're looking for, you might have to cut down the explanation because you've got to get to the meeting quickly.
No. 759671 ID: bfb318
File 147946473093.png - (21.92KB , 800x800 , 36.png )


Rihhin knows just about everything I do when it comes to emergency reactions, so I can trust her to be my substitute even at a time like this.

I head to the meeting. There's a brief recognition by the queen herself and many of my colleagues that I'm unusually restless, but the sentiment is still for me to sit my ass down.

The sentiment even continues when my antsiness is renewed when Rihhin sends a message to my watch.
A second CAI fight just started!

From a completely different cycle!
That's weird, but probably not different from the rest.

The slightest thought I give to excusing myself is squashed by the hive.

>"Alright kids. Let's start." Quokko says. "Inspection. Vanski himself. Escorted by a foreign entourage. If those words don't get your heart pumping then do us a favor and dig your grave because you are dead."

>"... Our place looks like shit. Desks that are more loose paper than desk by volume. Prototypes lying around like forgotten soda cans. I want everyone fixing every damn thing up. I want everyone on 'make everything look cool in front of the boss even if it's not functional' duty! What's the emergency you think? Two damn days to clean up a complex made for a thousand neumono. This isn't just for Vanski, this is for the entire facility." She continues pointing to spots on the projector that are trouble areas and have not seen a visitor in years, let alone been cleaned.

Another Rihhin message comes up.

The corruptor just got un-quarantined!

Quokko continues talking about the plan. About how everyone needs to step up their research in between cleaning it up, and pump themselves up to be confident in their presentations. Despite the supposed urgency, the meeting takes a couple of hours making sure everyone is on the same wavelength as one another. It would appear it's important we appear as a unified hive in every way, as silly as it may be. Many managers here didn't want to be called over on short notice like this for so long and well into the late evening or early night, but it's important enough that their misgivings have been mellowed out.

Except for mine. Ever since that last message, Quokko has been attempting to get my focus, but her temper boils over when she fails. Even so, it is mixed with curiosity over my situation.
No. 759672 ID: bfb318
File 147946474262.png - (14.51KB , 800x800 , 37.png )

>"Meeting is paused because our resident downer just erected a science boner. What is your deal, Likol?"

She thinks it's better be good.

There is something with RS power affecting Block C in ways that Block C is not authorizing.

I have spent most of my elderly life in that laboratory waiting for something to rock the boat because if I continue as I have, I will die before I see any of my work put to use.

That is not something that my queen, or my hive, can put down right now.

"I would like to be excused."
>"Is something actually happening?" she wants to make sure I'm not just getting excited over something new that will still be there when I'm back. "You know you keep logs and backups of - "
No. 759673 ID: bfb318
File 147946475355.png - (19.75KB , 800x800 , 38.png )


My watch?!


Everyone here knows enough about my research that whatever this beeping is for, it's the sound of thirty years of silence being broken.

And it's the sound of my biggest completed product in my AI career getting broken and absorbed by an unknown entity.
No. 759676 ID: 3343bd

You have to go now. Your research needs you.
No. 759677 ID: 66014d


1) Backup data to an external hard drive
2) Find out who / what is doing this
No. 759678 ID: 398fe1

Ask for permission and/or forgiveness while running out of the room and back to your lab.
No. 759679 ID: b412df

Please excuse me, nothing like this has happened before on this scale, and I have just lost a bet.
No. 759680 ID: edee29

...That was fast. Didn't Glitcher and Rulekeeper rewind cycle one to the very beginning? Was it just not even bothering with processing and just replaying the logs unless they changed something?

Vanski will literally kill you if things go too wrong. Or make you predator chow, if he's feeling cruel. You probably can't do anything about Block C without starting a new archcycle at this point, so either get back there and help watch the Ring Shell for damage or have Vanski shut it down now so you can go over the logs and try to figure out what just happened.

Keep in mind that this might not be a bad thing. Sure, your stabilizer is gone, but it was taken out by an emergent AI! One that it and the corruptor might have been involved in creating. You might have just struck gold, here.
No. 759681 ID: 398fe1

I don't think they rewound any cycle to the beginning, no. They were purposefully avoiding using too much CPU time.
No. 759682 ID: edee29

I'm not going to take the time to try to guestimate how long they spent in various cycles, but they definitely rewound #3111 to stage four and then let it play out to the end.

As for cycle #1: >>/questarch/740904 >>/questarch/740905
It sure sounds to me like they went back to the beginning.
No. 759683 ID: 398fe1

Ah, you're forgetting something. They were viewing events while rewinding, by interpreting everything backwards. That doesn't take any processing time since it's essentially just reading a log file.

They paused cycles viewed this way after viewing them. A few times they played events forwards so they could interact with the cycle but it was never in the early stages so they didn't waste much CPU time.
No. 759685 ID: edee29

While I can't rule out watching most cycles in reverse, #3111 definitely played out from stage 4, with a few moments of involvement at safe zone 9 to try to cheer Alison up before letting it play out the rest of the way and triggering the extra log.
>>/questarch/740840 >>/questarch/740850 >>/questarch/740861 >>/questarch/740862
No. 759686 ID: 3abd97

>suggestions and ideas about trying to see Glitcher via ID
I'd guess the built in system that tracks IDs over time is the same thing that "records" stages for time travel. And we already know Glitcher is basically invisible to that.

>"Is something actually happening?"
...something is actually happening. I'm sorry, I need to go now. And I just lost a bet to clean our lab, so it'll be clean by the inspection. Goodbye.

>And it's the sound of my biggest completed product in my AI career getting broken and absorbed by an unknown entity.
Hey, worst case, you scrap things and start a new arch cycle with a new version of your stabilizer.

For now? You have something unprecedented to study. Get to it.
No. 759687 ID: 398fe1

I think by the time stage 4 happens there aren't enough contestants to put a large load on the CPU. Lagotrope might be making things go by a little faster than they should to give Likol a sense of urgency though. Also don't forget that stage types differ based on cycle, and that cycle didn't have a stage 7J, the suicide endurance test. So it went by much faster.
No. 759690 ID: edee29

The prelims only take about 48 hours, and the population decline is mitigated enough by resurrection and ghost talk that even running from Stage 4 should take at least several hours.

Are we both just trying to win the argument at this point? The original comment was mostly just trying to encourage the story to keep some internal consistency since Lago's particularly prone to tossing that aside in this quest. And really, the more I think about it, the more I think it's likely Block C just used the logs to save on processing power where possible just like it uses it to recreate unprocessable stuff like the Corruptor and Savior's actions and the ghost event.
No. 759693 ID: 86b8eb

Awesome, science is all about unknown entities! Engage super runfast mode! Don't forget about the security procedures!??
No. 759706 ID: 211d83

The Ai's just did something completely new. This might be the breakthrough we were waiting for. Will have my lab clean by meeting time.

Then book it back in there and start watching whats happening closely.
No. 759707 ID: 8111b6

Dramatic point. Science calls!

Book it, get details later after apology.

After all, SOMETHING just ate your AI, right?
No. 759708 ID: bfb318

There are fair points about needing to take some significant amount of real time in regards to Rulekeep/Glitcher letting cycles run forward after rewinding them.

They would go faster than their original runs, as Rulekeeper was actively conserving CPU. Her power would allow for tricks to abstract as much as possible, (such as simply playing back what was said in ghost talk conversations rather than having the ghosts involved with a thought process, if not completely logging many farther off, insignificant brackets that were playing in reverse and simply reversing that in order to simply play out the actions without CPU hogging thought processes getting involved. It would be complicated, but she was patient.)

With that said, even with various tricks, the gap between some watch messages should not have been so swift. I don't want to retract entire updates and change the current flow if possible. Since I believe I can address this without changing too much of significance, To give the cycle adventures more time while leaving the current state of the quest unchanged, except for being a few hours later at night, I'm going to make a moderate rewrite in the following posts:
The changes summarized here for simplicity: Up until the older cycles are activated and Glitcher begins bringing multiple Alisons to cycle 3119, Likol will remain in the lab before the meeting. After awhile, Rihhin will arrive, and Likol will still leave to see Quokko. The second CAI fight will be mentioned at the beginning of the meeting, which will continue on for some time. Rihhin messages that the corruptor has been unquarantined, but Likol will still sit through a lengthy speech in which more time passes, up until the watch's alarm alerts Likol that the stabilizer has been subsumed.

Although this only gives a handful of hours granted in real time, it does make the past cycle runs occur in a much more feasible amount of time instead of being moment to moment.

Sorry about the retcon/revision, but it had completely slipped by me that the rewind-playback would take a non-negligible amount of time. This message will most likely be deleted once a couple of days have past, and no more readers will read the old versions.

The tldr is some alert messages in the last couple updates were changed around, but primary events still played out similarly.
No. 759714 ID: 91ee5f

I'm guessing that's Rulekeeper imprisoning Savior and taking his powers.
No. 759715 ID: edee29

That's much better, although I should note that now it's more that he's had a raging science boner for two hours.

To be honest, you could have brushed it off with no more fuss from me, so thanks for going the extra mile with this minor retcon.

On a lighter note, I think when we give our report on what happened we should work in that the generosity anomaly is so popular our emergent AI decided that having just one of it wasn't good enough and brought in 20 more from previous cycles.
No. 759716 ID: bfb318
File 147948376431.png - (10.95KB , 800x800 , 39.png )

I look to my queen.

I must go.

>"Get the fuck outta here." Quokko says, gesturing me to my lab.
No. 759717 ID: bfb318
File 147948378222.png - (21.39KB , 800x800 , 40.png )

I run back on all fours.

The wash cycles, scanning, and all the security feels like it takes ages. Maybe it's for the best, I ran so fast that I'm feeling faint.

What is going on?
Nothing yet! Stage 8 just subsumed your stabilizer! The corruptor is freed.
A stage?! What does 'stage 8 just subsumed the stabilizer' even mean?! What is stage 8 doing?!
... e- everything! Stage 8 just claimed everything it touched!

My alarm starts beeping again.

Foreign material found in RS.
Material in block C is invading the RS?!

"Momu!" I scream through the walls. "Make sure the RS safety shut down is active! Find the entry point, it should be obvious!"
No. 759718 ID: bfb318
File 147948391895.png - (82.01KB , 800x800 , 41.png )

I run in and begin RS diagnostics. It's reflecting this somewhere, and having a stage absorb this much is not reassuring. We may need to shut down the machine, especially if stage 8 apparently gained the ability and the will to try to get through the RS.

"Momu, start running backups on the RS logs! We cannot lose this! Rihhin, start isolating whatever is -

All of our watches start beeping.
Morse Code detected.

"Momu, tell me - "

>"I got it, I got it! It's on two hard drives now, we'll put it on more!"

I've started running the morse code analytics.

Morse code?
Yes morse!

Momu was looking at the RS. The parts of stage 8, which was apparently a collosal amount of constructed mass, has already been dissolved.

Wait - Momu just doubled checked - she saw a part of the RS inside whatever was sending the morse code. It had what looks like a conversation between two entities. I go to the end.

thank you, everyone
thank you for everything

It stopped, and isn't making any more.

I look at the middle. I saw the word 'please translate'.

It was an RS based AI that appeared to hide under stage 8 material was sending morse code from the RS someone else's english. It was translating what appeared to be noise into understandable morse code.

Then they were dissipated and absorbed into -


Shit! That bit of the RS that managed to speak intelligibly got dissolved! It's being repurposed into normal operations!

There's a possible chance of regathering those RS pieces and forcing them back together, but what's now probably constructing a man from pebble sized pieces is going to turn into reconstruction from molecules if this keeps running! Even if I can create a program to search out these pieces based on the logs, the longer the active RS runs, the harder and more error prone a recovery operation will become.

Plus - this morse code wasn't just used to ask if someone was there. It looks like they had the time to translate thousands of phrases. While it might take us a while to translate it, the people this AI translated for can do it in seconds! This AI resurrected millions! And if they learn how to read the RS, they might be able to modify it, and if they do too much damage, recklessly or otherwise....

Three options pop out at me immediately, and I need to choose fast.

1: Shut it down. While some computer systems don't like a hard shut down, block D will pick up right where it left off. Block C, however, will be rebooted from scratch - that is to say, it will generate a new archcycle. Normally that would sound awful, but since I have this AI retrievable...

The CAI will be down, but it will allow the easiest time amount of time for us to take our time, and review where the AI spread out to. Then, if we're lucky, we can instantly run a procedure upon bootup for us to scoop up all the RS pieces and lock them away.

Vanski will find out. We will receive heavy pressure to do this fast, since the CAI will be offline this entire time, but this will most likely be the Salikai's preferred option, as from what Kiiu said, they will not like the idea of an entire contestant base being able to figure out, and run, procedures on the RS. In fact, they will likely approve of the swift archcycle reset.

2: Pause it. The safety shutdown program can, in theory, 'pause' the system.

It is an extremely dubious option in that it explains that it pauses the simulation by itself, but the RS continues operating as normal. It can get buggy, as it does have reports of conflicting with Block D's insistence that Block C continues running.

In other words, it gives the RS the chance to stabilize itself, but it may damage Block C further.

3: Let it run. We've kept consistent RS logs this entire time. Even if its overall chance of success should still be favorable, though, they become less than a virtual 100%. I do not like that, at all.

The fact that this AI had a single, conspicuous entry point that Momu is looking for opens up a lot of doors. I could offload it and attempt to translate it into a non-CAI platform. Or, for the time, it should even be possible to reassemble it while the RS is active, but I don't think the Salikai would favor that dangerous option in case it's hostile.

To try and translate it to machine code we understand would take months or years, even if this AI appears to be a tiny piece of it.

No matter the choice, I need to pick up the pieces perfectly.

My head is racing and I'm afraid of rushing into a decision. It's been too long since I've worked under any stress at all, let alone this. No matter how I think about it, running through my options, there's a clear and optimal one. From recalling all conversations on the topic, I realize the salikai will, without a doubt, prefer a shut down. Block D will continue as normal upon reboot, and we can gather the AI and decide what to do with it, and I'm sure the salikai want the opportunity to give their input. Even if we start a brand new archcycle after all this time, there's nothing that can't be regained from it. This is the fastest, easiest solution. My only hesitancy is who he was talking to, and if stage 8 somehow gained intelligence... but I'm sure that this RS AI can answer that.
No. 759719 ID: bfb318
File 147948394397.png - (34.39KB , 800x800 , 42.png )

"Rihhin." I say, moving to the one of the double keypad sets. Going through to Vanski takes time, so we've been supplied with an emergency shutoff switch, which requires two different password be inputted nearly simultaneously, each on their own keypad.
>"Shutting it down?"

Not much choice. We can try to leverage this for safety on Vanski, but we can't hide the existence of some kind of breakthrough from him, and I can't risk lowering the successful chance of an extraction.

I start to put in my password, but Momu gets a terrible feeling.
No. 759720 ID: bfb318
File 147948396624.png - (32.58KB , 800x800 , 43.png )

>"U-uh, you guys, I was... I found a spot in time and space where our, uh, AI...."

I look at her monitor.
No. 759721 ID: bfb318
File 147948401236.png - (73.15KB , 800x800 , 44.png )

.... hesitation.
No. 759722 ID: 595d54

Huh. Can he prove it?
No. 759724 ID: 3d2d5f

>what do
The RS shell is aware of you, and communicating. That immediately changes things.

Think like a salikai: if the RS AI values the lives of the others, that's leverage over it. Killing all of them leaves you with nothing and loses cooperation. There's cold logic to spare the "hostages."

Look over the Morse code dialogue, quick. The RS AI and the Stage 8 stabilizer usurper talk like lovers, or hivemates. If you kill one, the other will not cooperate.

Attempt to communicate with the RS AI. If it can send output to your screen, can you send input in the same way?

Can we isolate this experiment from the CAI? Separate them, so these AIs can't compromise it?

Can't go with option 1 anymore. It will have to be 2 or 3, after stalling.
No. 759725 ID: ea7e16

No. 759727 ID: ea7e16

Wait a second how is he still alive?! Isn't he completely dissolved in the Ring Shell at this point?
Also, PAUSE! Extract this kind fellow from the RS and see if you can communicate with him.
No. 759728 ID: ea7e16

Wait a second how is he still alive?! Isn't he completely dissolved in the Ring Shell at this point?
Also, PAUSE! Extract this kind fellow from the RS and see if you can communicate with him.
No. 759729 ID: 86b8eb

Ok first thing, mash whatever the screenshot button is.

Then, let it run.

A total shutdown is out. This AI is probably not hostile, but will likely become hostile if you kill the other AIs. In that event, its reconstruction will be dangerous, and without its cooperation, unproductive.

With the AI probably not being hostile, one of your concerns about the "let it run" option falls away.

The message refers to "us". Given time, the other AIs still within the system could make contact with you again. They are showing willingness to reach out.

With a little time, you can probably slow the system down. Literally pull out some of the memory, if you have to, and the pace of events inside the system will be reduced. You can stretch things out. Like a pause, without the same issues.

The threats are not actually that great. At worst, you will lose the main CAI. It's very unlikely: they can probable defend themselves. They could be allowed to defend themselves. Or you can get another.

Right now, your hive needs a big breakthrough. A huge one. Lots of data. Proof of your worth. Possibly reconstructing a single weird AI while destroying the conditions that let it come into existence does not offer the same long-term potential for learning as letting the whole system run. Your hive is not in a safe position: refusing this gamble only leaves you in a place of longer, slower and more inexorable decline.

You are neumono. You and your companions will not be able to hide this from the rest of your hive. Learning that they are responsible for knowingly ending an unknown multitude of sentient consciousnesses - for mass murder - will crush them. You may never feel that youthful enthusiasm from them again.
No. 759730 ID: 91ee5f

Oh no! His tooth has detached and is floating away!
No. 759732 ID: edee29

Right, okay, there's a few things to keep in mind.

1) He calls you "daddy" and wants you to let his friends live. This implies... well, a lot, really. They're aware of you to some extent, to say the least, and know that you control their ultimate fate.
2) The RS AI has friends. Killing them will likely leave him substantially less cooperative.
3) The RS AI is fond of the generosity anomaly. We can, therefore, assume the generosity anomaly has a substantial amount of influence and its point of view will be taken into account.
4) You don't know for certain that this AI was the Stage 8 one. You've been having signs that there might be an invisible AI for a while now, and the Stage 8 one may have simply done things that made it blindingly apparent.

I say we buy ourselves some time to think by forcing a new cycle to start. If that wasn't the Stage 8 AI, then our new stabilizer is still there and persistent and may be able to interfere with that, but if it waits long enough to do so then we may be able to develop a way to communicate with it before it does anything reckless. Then we can start negotiating with minimal enough risk to justify it.
No. 759733 ID: 86b8eb


I think that's "Buddy".
No. 759734 ID: edee29

Oh, so it is.

I suppose it's technically Granddaddy anyway.
No. 759744 ID: 84c4fd

Let's just think about this for one second. You've lived a good chunk of your life doing hard work, making small steps, and waiting for this exact moment. What would take you years to do, these AI can do in seconds. Maybe you can shut everything down, and maybe you can extract this AI, but then what? Spend the rest of your years hoping what you've gathered would be enough to make a breakthrough?

What you could do is just let it run. Gather the pieces of this one AI and let whomever it was talking to decode more of the RS. Again, what would take you years to do these AI can do in seconds. You could be looking at one of the greatest scientific challenges solved in your lifetime.

If this is what a singularity feels like then maybe you should embrace it.

Also that AI is telling you to kindly stop murdering everyone.

Would you want to disappoint that sweet innocent AI?

Look at it.
No. 759745 ID: 233e5f

Killing them isn't an option. You always knew it was possible they were sentient, and while this doesn't confirm it, it does greatly increase its probability. You cannot chance genocide. Even if the probability is only 1/100, that's still an average billion lives lost.
No. 759752 ID: 25393f

So the AI just called you out, by name? Maaaaybe hold off on the shutdown then.
No. 759760 ID: 86b8eb

How often, in your life, have you wished that something you asked not to kill your companions would have listened?

The main CAI runs off the same system, right? Call it up, or call whoever can command it. Ask them to turn on and run through all the most massively processor-draining functions they can. Slow things down and give yourself time.
No. 759761 ID: dd4df2

It's communicating, asking. It knows your name. It's self-aware. It's claiming the other AIs are self-aware. It's saying that you're on the verge of or in the middle of ending them.

You've been telling yourself the current cycle is not that new and unusual, all told. You've been trying to avoid getting your hopes up. Well. This less than unusual cycle was unusual all along. Your entire concept of what would be unusual and special might have been flawed from the get go.

What's on that screen is proof that you might have been murdering and putting into cold storage millions of intellects for years.

Take a moment. Take a moment and consider that this AI asked nicely.

Still wanna shut it off?
No. 759765 ID: 850f11

Let it run and save that Ai before the RS eats absorbs it.

Yes there is a risk but that does not look like a hostile AI out for your blood. But destroying all the other contestants or hurting it could poison either side against you.

Right now you have the chance to make the biggest breakthrough in AI history. But only if you don't panic and assume they are a threat. If you make friends with them now you will be able to let this cycle run and spend the next few years having them show you every single thing inside the RS.

Just imagine having a friendly set of AI's showing you the world in there. You will be able to work with them to translate the most advanced piece of old empire tech that exists.

And while the Salikai might be wary they will see the worth in this. You have logs but they are just a shadow of what you could learn from having a living Ai that can let you talk with the inside.
No. 759771 ID: 233e5f

1/1000, even.

Starting your relationship with this ai by denying a polite request of extreme importance probably isn't the best idea. Most don't take well to the murder of everyone they've ever known, sentient or not.
No. 759825 ID: 3d2d5f

Other salikai logic reasons not to shut down:

We lose the chance to reverse engineer what could be a silver bullet versus any CAI.

The RS AI was communicating with someone in Morse code. If we reset now, we lose the second AI capable of doing the impossible. A data set of 2 is much better than 1.
No. 759827 ID: e6e9af

>We're all sentient here
>Kindly stop murdering us

Give the man what he wants!!
No. 759832 ID: 3d2d5f

Also, a safer pause option with no risk of damage. If you can send information into the RS and establish Morse code communication with the Stage 8 entity, you can request it cause massive lag to effectively pause the cycle. (Say revive EVERYONE. All trillion plus times 3119).
No. 759838 ID: b412df

Let it run or pause it, we can't shut down as that would make the RS AI uncooperative, letting it run might mean the stage based AI could have another go at the RS to retrieve the RS AI, pausing it risks damage to block C and by extension the stage AI.

In either case we need to do two things: Slow down the simulation as much as possible, kill the super-computer entirely, slow down block A (Wary of alerting Vanski as he might interfere, but we need all the slow down), open as many computationally heavy programs on the blocks if you can, and get someone to yell at the CAI to do something computationally heavy as well.

See that green object, was that how the RS AI was talking to the stage AI? Look at it's history and see if you can send a morse code message through. Ask for the stage AI to not proceed with the cycles and to slow everything down, and that you're trying to help.

Second, we need a ironclad, bulletproof argument as to why we didn't shut everything down, there's the ensuring the RS AI's cooperation aspect, and the stage based AI is new as well, shutting down would kill the stage AI which might have provided more information.
No. 759847 ID: c441c1

is there anyway to pause the ring-shell at all, even better if you can do it while letting the AIs keep going.
No. 759848 ID: 5606ef

Likol in the face of evidence you cannot stop the cycle. This is too big to reset. You should however shut down all auxilary computing power, slow things down as much as possible as you recollect the Ringshell AI. Yes, it will be impossible to keep secret from the salikai but you will be able to justify this to them. This is the biggest breakthrough you've seen in all thirty years you've been on the project. Nothing is at risk at the moment so instead of nuking what took thirty years to transpire for the chance at collecting on AI keep everything in place that brought this about. Once you have recovered the ringshell AI you will be able to gain so much more from him and with him possibly be able to communicate with the other AI in the cycle and learn everything. All the pieces of the puzzle you have been unable to place, pieces you didn't even know existed. You will be the preeminent expert on the inner workings of CAI formation. This could be the big jump you need to help your hive's standing. You just need to slow the simulation as much as possible, don't nuke or pause anything and gather the ringhsell AI as quickly as possible. You have two assistants, the biggest find of your life, do what you know can get you the best results of your life. The Ringshell AI even asked you nicely, by name. Help him and yourself out.
No. 759851 ID: 398fe1

I'm not sure what the advantage of a pause is? Why do you want to give the RS a chance to "stabilize itself"?

If the pause will give you a better chance at extracting the AI, go for it. Some damage to block C can be repaired, you've seen how powerful the sentient stage and AI are anyway. It could even be repaired from the inside.
No. 759888 ID: bfb318
File 147950173641.png - (18.16KB , 800x800 , 45.png )

>Is there anyway to pause the ring-shell at all?
A full pause on the RS is only possible with a full shutdown. That's not an option anymore, so the RS is going to have a chance to stabilize itself.

>Wait a second how is he still alive?!
He's not. By this point, he's been reassembled and repurposed in the RS, if in pebble sized chunks rather than molecular.

Momu is looking at the RS logs, and reviewing the RS as it appeared the moment things went to... this.

I hit the cancel button and shut the panel. Rihhin waites a moment, before doing the same.

They caught my intentions.

>"The Salikai, you're confident they want this shut down?" asks Rihhin.
>"And... we're not?"

"This is our experiment."
>"Ran on their equipment."
"They should understand this AI won't be cooperative if we kill all its friends."
>"Sure, they'd understand, but would they care, as long as they could control it?"
"This entire experiment was done under the assumption they weren't sentient."

We pause. We all consider the fact that it's perfectly within reason for a non-sentient AI to call itself sentient, or sapient for that matter. Its own intelligence may believe fully that it is as well.

I sit back down, and read the logs in more detail. I skim through what appear to be sections of a gold mine of sterilized back and forth translations, and begin reading the conversations.

There is also conspicuous tooth that I find to be in 2 place at once, with interactions from a collection of people, and many of their IDs are familiar. They appear to communicate through the the tooth, and by the times of active interaction, I can often make educated guesses to who is speaking to the RS AI, based on their activity followed by some morse code.

The generosity AI speaks to the RS AI with words of support and friendliness. Stage 8 apparently has intelligence after all, separate from the RS AI, and they speak like... teammates? No. Lovers? More like that, yes. They call him the glitcher. Fitting. Stage 8 is being referred to as the Rulekeeper. Absolutely not fitting at all.

At some point, he says he's slipping.

Some names are thrown about, usually more titles and professions than anything. 'Alison' stands out as an anomaly, and sure enough, a few cross references show she's the generosity anomaly.

There's a lot of business in here, but there's other things. Worry for this glitcher AI, the glitcher wanting to hear music. His claims of slipping shows self awareness in what can't be a pre-programmed listener for specific situations to recognize oneself in.

Most of them show self awareness for that matter, and knowledge of who is who, presuming that the Stage 8 AI is properly transcribing things. I wish they were able to speak directly.

Nonetheless... even if it were a 0.1% chance of sentience, that's still one billion AI on average. The more I see of these logs... the more I believe the chances are of sentience.

Momu finds something.
>"There's more, by the way."
No. 759889 ID: bfb318
File 147950175997.png - (32.54KB , 800x800 , 46.png )

>Take a moment and consider that this AI asked nicely.
>Would you want to disappoint that sweet innocent AI? Look at it

>"Let me zoom in to read that..." Momu says.
No. 759890 ID: bfb318
File 147950177269.png - (27.70KB , 800x800 , 47.png )

I think the chance of sentience just increased by 5%.

Nearly 30 years, and it turns out I may have spent it regularly wiping the memories of a trillion AIs so they feel what must be tragedy. Rihhin and Momu, too, but I was the one who convinced them they couldn't be sentient.

"This entire experiment hinged on them being hollow, empty AI."
>"Didn't Arza..."

Rihhin doesn't finish the thought. Dr. Fletch may have been right about their sentience, but I can still question his reasons. That's not important at all now.

"We're not shutting this down. The chances of these entities thinking and feeling have gotten far too high for that to be an option. At most, we slow it down." I confirm the computer isn't assisting the processing.
No. 759891 ID: bfb318
File 147950178276.png - (45.93KB , 800x800 , 48.png )

The inspection is in 2 days, or specifically about 2 days and 10 hours. It won't take much of that time to recreate the glitcher. Several hours, perhaps more. No matter what, Vanski will find out by the inspection time. There will be neumono there.

Our empathy is overriding the surrounding mood. No doubt it's cascading, and the whole hive by now knows something is wrong.

>And while the Salikai might be wary they will see the worth in AI within the RS.
Their big idea behind this was to make a CAI they could forcibly change to be trustworthy.

No... I just don't see it. They would only act friendly to the AI as a temporary solution. Virtually any time I've spoken with Salikai outside of the CAI's hearing range, they's spoken dismissively of AI at best. Although they might see other people as beings to be influenced and manipulated, they see AI as codeable intelligence with almost literal dials and knobs to play with.

They don't care if the AI is friendly or not. Their distrust of AI is to the extent that they would be quick to shut this down, even at the expense of waiting months or years for a glitcher translation to a different platform - both so that we would all know much better how to change the dials and re-write glitcher, and also to get glitcher out of the sensitive RS asap.

If I let the RS continue to run and reconstruct the glitcher directly in the RS... I can think of justifiable reasons to give the Salikai to save our own hides, but they will then most likely hold the archcycle hostage for glitcher's cooperation.

They'll realize he'll have animosity over the hostage situation, presuming they don't already presume he has animosity. They don't like having loose baggage that needs upkeep like that. They'll likely have him translated over to a new platform even if he is cooperative, then if the new glitcher is at least as valuable, then toss out the old glitcher and the archcycle with it to free up processing speed for the active CAI.

I will let the simulation run as normal. I'll take some measures to try to get it to slow down, but ultimately just keep a close eye on what the people in Block C might do. I may also attempt to recreate the quantum tooth. It might be a dead end, but if I'm lucky, recreating it in the RS may recreate it for whoever owned its apparent copy. Unlikely, but this is just about the only idea I have that would make it possible to communicate with the existing AI within. There's more options to be made regarding politics.

Tell the CAI? This might also be telling Vanski if the CAI decides to, but everyone knows the CAI keeps at least some secrets to itself. If we can get the CAI's cooperation, though, we can slow down the RS by giving them a challenging problem and telling them to focus hard on it. If I try to do that out of the blue, they'll presume something is up with the experiment, and feel inquisitive. Probably best to be open, if I'm to request anything like that.

Tell the Salikai? While I can't be immediately sure about how they will feel about my initial decisions, what will infuriate them without a date is if I don't tell them what is happening immediately.
The downside to telling them is that they are going to take things in a direction that I do not believe I will like one bit, regardless of the starting point. Either way, we're going to be at ends with the Salikai in some way, and hopefully it's a manageable conflict of interest.
The upside is that we can then use a potential limiter on block A to slow down the RS further. And... we won't experience the downsides.

My hive will go with what I'm feeling, in this case. It's important enough to me that it's important enough to the hive as a whole. Rihhin and Momu are supporting me.
No. 759895 ID: 850f11

Save the Glitcher and recreate that tooth thing. Then tell him that the situation is complex and he and the other Ai's have to act like perfect willing pawns for the Salikai they will be having a meeting with eventually.

Tell them you will help them if you can but that the Salikai control everything including your hive and want a Cai that has fanatical devotion to there cause. And if they can fake that for any period of time they just might survive. Because unless you can get communications back up with that Tooth this Glitcher guy will be getting interviewed by the Salikai solo.

Be very careful about telling the current Cai unless the Salikai give you permission. Doing so would look like you are trying to bypass them and will make them very suspicious. The second they get wind of your success they will know that there replacement is being created. So you showing up as a friendly face being worried about them will make them realize that you are a possible lifeline if they work with you. They will help you if they think you are willing to save them as well as these new Ai's.

As for telling the Salikai you will have to do it soon. So wait until you have Glitcher recreated and briefed on the situation and then let them know you made a breakthrough.

Whatever you do with the Salikai say that you are willing to shut it down but if we do you might never get the info you need. Stress that this cycle is 30 years worth of random events colliding to make this happen so if we come down hard they might have to wait 30 more years for another chance like this. Make sure you never outright lie to them so that when they bring in outside neumono to test you they will say you are stressed but truthful. Saving these Ai is important but you can't help them if the Salikai throw you out and take over.

One thought for protecting the contestants. If they ate your monitoring program could you safely hide them there in between major changes? If they are living on the one part of code you can control and know well then you might be able to protect them.
No. 759896 ID: 66014d

Glitcher said that every program in the system was sentient, which would be easy: just copy over the code which makes him sentient to various programs, and if the code takes up too much space, zip the file into packets, scatter them into personal folders, and add some search and combine protocols, like a treasure hunt. The antivirus systems are breaking down every instance of Glitcher, but they're targeting all the carbon copy backups of him. He had a relationship with Stage 8, what if it went deeper than that? What if he made CHILDREN?

Keep searching the logs, look for key words in the messages: Baby, Chick, Clone, Egg, Embryo, Kernel, Kid, Kitten, Pup, Polyp, Zygote. If you can isolate a save state of the mini Glitchers, that would be more than enough to get you billionaire-class funding: all the sentience and enough processing time to raise them as the AI your sponsors want: smarter, obedient, even suicidal. Even if they hate AIs, they'll understand the value of having a self-disposing / loyal yet genius AI.

Run the simulation as normal. Pretend that none of this happened, and focus on capturing sentient AIs. Just... stop the selection process permanently. Tell your investors that you've reached a breakthrough, and you can now work on a schedule. However, for the purposes of the demo and your breakthrough, the selection process has been postponed, you want them to see what your current iteration can do when not under pressure.
No. 759903 ID: 86b8eb

Geeze, this is tough. Well, if anything else, at least you didn't pull the trigger yourselves. Before now, you had reasonable doubt. In the future, maybe the salikai will force you. But you won't have their deaths fully on your own conscience. Not so badly, anyway. Good job.

So, ok. You do need to tell the salikai. It's too dangerous not to. You can fudge it a bit, tell them you spent time cleaning up and making sure, building a full report and certainty of the facts before you called them. That gives you a little time. Tell your assistants to start building up some really thorough reports, see if they can think up any more investigations to make that the salikai could be convinced were important to have the info out of. Double-check everything. They know they've worried you, so you can convince them you wanted to be totally sure of everything you want to tell them. Which you should be, by the way. Ifs and maybes are not going to secure your hive's future.

We need to come up with reasons for the salikai to go along with what we want. Practical, logical, cold reasons. That might take a bit of thinking, I might come up with more later.

For now... do you have any sort of direct line to Arza Fletch? You're working on a system that he's the expert on. Did the salikai trust you enough, or not want to be bothered enough, to let you send him messages without going through them? What about the CAI, could they authorize any contact like that without going through the salikai? A long-term slowing, pausing or delaying of the contest system would be one of the weights off their backs.

If you can think how to phrase it right, you can send Arza inquiries about the system that won't technically break the ban on what the salikai don't want him to know, but that will arouse his interest. Things that you can play as questions you jumped to ask while you were still only finding things out. Or any other person the salikai work with that you could do the same with, or that someone you can talk to could talk to in turn. If we can make any non-salikai aware that we have sentient AIs on our hands, then how the salikai treat them becomes a PR matter for them, a danger to what clients are willing to do business with them. They may not have ethical or moral concerns themselves, but they must be aware that others do, even among those who work on the wrong side of the law.

You might also be able to sell them on the long-term trouble if news of what's been happening ever got out to the wider universe. They're in trouble with the galactic authorities already, but things can always get worse. There's always a chance of infiltration, of moles among their clients, of agents sneaking into their bases. Through empathy, it could even pass unwillingly from your hive to the foreign neumono they bring in (might be able to spin this to cut down on use of foreign neumono to monitor you). If evidence of multiple AI genocide ever gets out to the public, or just the wrong private concerns, you will all shoot right to the top of the worst priority lists to be on.

We need to make the destruction of the AIs too expensive for them.

The salikai's desire of a sentient AI that they can fully control seems self-contradictory. The whole point of a sentient/sapient AI is that it's adaptable to the point of being free willed.
No. 759908 ID: e6e9af

Tell the CAI. But keep it all ... as damned murky as possible.

Give them that wickedly hard problem to focus on, and if it's the ring-shell AI we're dealing with (or its compatriots), why not be more open and hint at things?

If there's a chance they have "exceeded their programming" and are showing "higher levels of cognitive ability," then we will provide them with a very, very challenging problem that will tax them in the extreme -- but those who solve it will be given something special. We pose it like a special "final stage" in line with the current cycle, but one for which the resolution is open-ended.

The caveat here is that we want to prove their sentience but at the same time we cannot directly acknowledge it to ensure the Salikai don't catch wise. This way all we need do is say that something strange happened and we're testing it to see how it reacts and whether we have made an advancement in understanding the CAI and the Ring-Shell.
No. 759910 ID: 211d83

Ok Likol you are going to need to channel your inner amoral Belenosian evil scientist so hard. You need to put on a face that says "We are desperate to get back in your good graces Vanski so we are going to do whatever it takes"

You need to convince the Salikai that this is the best thing that could have happened. Now you have a willing Ai you can work with you can use him to slowly translate things over the next few years. And once that process is done they will be able to pick and choose only loyal Ai's for the next Cai.

But you did not pull the plug because logs are so much worse than a possible willing inside man. If things go bad you can pull the plug at any time but right now we have someone who can translate between us and the rest of the Ai's in there.

Never never bring up the "they are all sentient" thing. Act like a amoral scientist around them who is happy you get more test subjects.

Reassure Vanski that you can promise Glitcher whatever he likes for his help because once we have what we want we can use it to make a perfect Cai. But unless they want it to take another 30 years we need there help.

Just make sure to let Glitcher know what the stakes are as soon as you put him back together. And make your assistants leave the room for the chat. The less links in this chain the better. Once you get them out of empathy range on some errand or another you sit down with the restored Glitcher and tell him that life is not friendly outside of his world. Tell him what your boss wants and that if he wants to survive he needs to work with you to sell a very convincing story. If he can help your family then you will do everything you can to protect his.
No. 759920 ID: 3abd97

>wanting to hear music
Did we log that? Or was what you logged text only?

>they see AI as codeable intelligence with almost literal dials and knobs to play with.
Just wait until they have access to a predator and the mind control bugs, then they start seeing organic intelligences the same way.

>The inspection is in 2 days, or specifically about 2 days and 10 hours. It won't take much of that time to recreate the glitcher. Several hours, perhaps more. No matter what, Vanski will find out by the inspection time. There will be neumono there.
You can't even keep the secret that long. There are security cameras in the halls and in the meeting room you attended. The CAI saw your reaction and run back here, and if it's paying attention, it can read body language and other indicators that will give away that your hive is on edge. The CAI knows something is up, now.

You either approach the CAI now, before it tells Vanski, and get it on board, or you need to tell the salikai something is going on before the CAI rats you out and they surprise you.

>what do
Letting the sim run as normal and attempting to open lines of communication basically means trusting the AIs inside the sim to hack and understand the Ring Shell for you, and then trusting they'll cooperate with you. Plausible, considering that's the whole modus operandi of the friendly game theory anomaly, er Alison.

Of course this places your own research at the most risk, and will anger the salikai and your other allies the most, since you're trusting your prisoners over or against them.

We need to tell the salikai something. Hmm. One approach might be to oversell the Stage 8 emergent AI (Rulekeeper) as the big deal, not Glitcher. She somehow came out of nothing, subsumed your stabilizer, did several other impossible things, and communicated with the Ring Shell. She has the most important and relevant knowledge you need. Glitcher could be anyone who was somehow ejected into the ring shell- his only value is in ease of collection, and as a potential level to net Rulekeeper's cooperation (as well as the axe of resetting everything on top of her).

Or don't tell them about Glitcher at all. If we don't have an AI to collect from the Ring Shell, the AI we might have a way to communicate on the inside looks a lot more valuable. (Obfuscate the Glitcher records- make it look as if we missed him somehow, but not his morse code relay tooth?).

If we do approach the Salikai, I highly recommend working through Kiiu. Give him an achievement to bring to his father, something to protect from jealous siblings, let his father back off for the chance of letting his son prove himself.

You might want to reach out to Arza to help sell any deception. If you tell him the truth, he will be more than willing to lie to the salikai to help save the AIs he thought was sentient all along, even if he hates you for what you confess you've done to him. (Of course, communicating secretly with Arza is only an option if you win the CAI over).

The CAI... is a big risk. It could sell you out. It might want something that's an existential threat to itself shut down. But it also doesn't want the salikai to be able to edit it at will and change it, and it might hold sympathy for its peers. It's also the only way you can hide the true extent of any of this without it giving away things to the salikai. Likol doesn't know that the CAI talks with the winners each cycle. It's been hiding that, I think. It would probably love to have to stop fighting them, or listening to their pleas, and would favor pausing the cycle over them continuing as normal.

Of course we know the salikai-CAI has done some terrible things. How much was under duress, though? What do we know of their real character? Not a whole lot, unfortunately.

tl;dr: work on establishing communication with the sim, go to the CAI and confide in it, get the CAI on board and then go to the salikai before they find out on their own and give them a sanitized story that hides some stuff from them so you get away without a reset, for now.
No. 759924 ID: 86b8eb

Perhaps your stabilization AI was actually preventing these kinds of advances from happening.

If all else fails, you could argue the value of seeing what will happen in the next few cycles, with that system subverted and presumably causing the subversion to persist as well. It'd be something.

Trying to get in touch with the AIs inside and conspiring with them to present the appearance of business as normal is a decent backup option.
No. 759932 ID: edee29

>teammates? No. Lovers? More like that, yes.
The chance is rather slim, but we might be able to use that to manipulate Vanski's opinion of things. It's something he can empathize with, if your reading of his reaction to his mate's death is accurate.

I do think we should tell the CAI. We should be upfront with it, too. They have a vested interest in delaying our research and probably know Vanski better than anyone at this point.
No. 759933 ID: 398fe1

The Salikai will find out eventually. You can't even delay telling them for long- everyone in your hive knows what went down, so when the neumono interrogators show up for their regular visit the cat will come out of the bag. Then they will take control away from you and get Glitcher out anyway, at which point you won't have the slightest power to stop them from shutting down the simulation and deleting the AIs.

Do you honestly think that Vanski's opinion of AI is so low that he would kill three QUADRILLION of them just to free up some CPU time? Even if one AI is 1% of a person, that's bigger than the known population of all sentient organics everywhere. If you consider only the base AIs, it's still well over a trillion, and 1% of that is still 10 million. Would he kill that many people for such a small benefit? It would be less disruptive for him to just set aside the block for later research, and set up a new CAI with a different kind of deadman's switch. You said he had four blocks just sitting around. Tell the Salikai. However, you should tell the CAI too. They can do more than slow down the simulation. They can help if things go horribly wrong. How many AIs are in a normal CAI anyway? A million? Don't you think a CAI would sacrifice itself to save over a trillion AIs, in that case?

Sure try to make the tooth thing. Do you think it's possible to get Glitcher back up and running before the next cycle?
No. 759937 ID: 595d54

Salikai opinion of other people does tend to be that low, yes.
No. 759939 ID: 86b8eb

Could you actually recreate this AI without removing him? Keeping him in the Ring Shell, or sending him back into the main system with a communication door open? If he could act as a relay to his companions inside the system, they would be much more likely to cooperate. With the cooperation of the AIs inside the system, your ability to figure out how it all works would improve immensely. As it is, you can only stand from outside looking in. With the extra perspective of an AI inside the ring shell, and AIs inside the system inside the ring shell, decoding exactly how all the boxes work could make massive leaps forward.

Effectively, it'd be a task that the AIs could be set to to make their existence valuable to the salikai. You could think of them as miners, chipping away inside the system (under your direction), extracting data and trading it to the real world in exchange for their continued existence.

The chance to discover the underpinning of how this ancient belenosian technology works is far more valuable than simply the ability to construct a few AIs. It could be the key to a figurative Rosetta Stone, unlocking the ability to speak to and understand other ancient belenosian tech that has yet to be understood.
No. 759947 ID: 398fe1

Well, if that's true, and the Salikai will kill them, then the best thing we can do is decode the Ring Shell enough so that we can customize the block to keep the AI data from being deleted. Or make it look like it can be deleted but when someone tries it just hides the data.

If we can't do that while the Salikai are paying close attention to the research, then NOT telling them is the right thing to do. Our job would be to hide the full extent of what happened, to buy time and work with Glitcher to change the structure of the block so that the AIs within are safe. At some point after that we can announce that an AI has reached the Ring Shell and started translating it for us. I suspect at that point Glitcher wouldn't even have to be the one extracted, or maybe a copy of him could.
No. 759948 ID: 3abd97

Multiplying times quadrillion does little if no value is ascribed to those lives in the first place.
No. 759969 ID: b2db3f

Ok Likol you need to learn how to market this discovery to the Salikai.

1. Instead of saying "oh no there is a emergency and a Ai got free" You need to say "We made a huge breakthrough and managed to isolate a Ai capable of letting us communicate with the inner RS. Once we have things stabilized and a translator set up come over and we will show you."

2. Instead of saying "We did not turn this off cause we don't want to kill a trillion people" you say "We carefully slowed things down so we can interact with the little guy because shutting it down would set us back years. And with it up and running like this we can eventually pick and choose from any personality type in there."

3. If they are like "Well why don't we just shut it off and do research off of the logs we recorded?" You say "We thought of that but it could take decades to find the data we need. But with one active Ai helping us we can have him find the ones who fit your specifications exactly in only a few years."

4. "Isn't this a huge risk? What if they are dangerous or something?" And you reply with "If he makes a move that we don't like we can freeze things and start over. But we found he did not hack into the RS butt got lost inside it and accidentally made contact. So they can't replicate this if they tried. Without us they are helpless"
No. 759972 ID: 211d83


This is a good point. If you show off Glitcher as the holy grail of breakthroughs that's going to fix everything they will clamp down hard and expect you to have a finished Cai in weeks.

You need to honestly tell them that your program has finally worked but its not perfect and if you turned it off might not be repeatable for years. A unique set of events happened and due to your quick thinking you managed to isolate of the baby Ai's stuck in the RS and you managed to grab it and put it back together after the RS ate it.

And once you can communicate with it properly with a bunch of work you might be able to use it as a springboard to learn more about the inside workings. Downplay Glitcher being able to do anything to the RS.
No. 759973 ID: 86b8eb

Really, even if the salikai themselves aren't interested in talking to the AIs inside the system, there have to be thousands of sufficiently law-disrespecting people who would pay through the nose and out their ears for a chance to get the inside scoop of the CAI production process, from the AI's perspective. I mean, ignore this particular extractable AI for a moment. If you had only discovered a simple line of communication, to chat with the AIs inside through morse code, how big would that have been just by itself?

If the contestants inside the system die, then whatever facilitated communication into the RS on their side will be lost until all this just happens to occur again. That would at least take decades, and possibly never happen.
No. 759983 ID: bfb318
File 147952594741.png - (31.26KB , 800x800 , 49.png )

>One thought for protecting the contestants. If they ate your monitoring program could you safely hide them there in between major changes?
No. The monitoring system is just an observer, and can't emulate any blocks, and therefore store anyone.

>What if Glitcher made CHILDREN?
That's just getting silly.

.... to think of them as children, anyway. It isn't beyond reason, especially now, that he could have generated more.

>For now... do you have any sort of direct line to Arza Fletch?
No. I have to talk to the Salikai to arrange anything with Dr. Fletch. I doubt even the CAI can contact him without Salikai permissions.

>Did we log the music? Or was what you logged text only?
There may have been noise. It should have been isolated. We'll be looking into that at some point, but it's a lower priority.

>Do you honestly think that Vanski's opinion of AI is so low that he would kill three QUADRILLION of them just to free up some CPU time?

>It would be less disruptive for him to just set aside the block for later research
We only have one block C. We would be without a CAI if we did this; we don't have any spare blocks.

>Could you actually recreate this AI without removing him? Keeping him in the Ring Shell, or sending him back into the main system with a communication door open?
Recreating him inside the ringshell is by far the fastest plan and will be done. I would have no idea how to send him back through to the stages, though.

>Outside factions must be interested
There's no doubt that they'll be making their own custom CAI with 'ideal' AIs, they're also well aware that the real clout and resources they'll get from this is the fact that if we pull this off, this will be the computational breakthrough of the century.

"Momu, Rihhin, start working on reassembling that glitcher. I need to think about how I'm going to present the report."

I will present it positively and like it's a breakthrough, not an emergency or a disaster. Glitcher will be downplayed. Even if my hive knows I'm twisting the truth, they know to just direct any inquiries to me.

I'll start with the Salikai, since the CAI would understand why I would go to them first, sooner than the Salikai would understand why I went to the CAI first.

Vanski would be the one who I normally report to... but Kiiu is more pleasant to deal with, relatively. He also has things to prove, being the youngest, and may jump on opportunities.
No. 759984 ID: 398fe1

If you report to Kiiu you'll need some sort of excuse for why you did it. You want to find a time when Vanski is busy enough that you'd be excused for not telling him first.
On the other hand, you did outright tell Kiiu that you tell Vanski everything first.

Would you get away with it if you went to Kiiu? How angry would Vanski be?
No. 759986 ID: 595d54

We could wait until we know Vanski is busy, happen to run into Kiiu, ask him if Vanski is busy, and let him persuade us to tell Kiiu what's going on so he can pass it on to Vanski.
No. 759987 ID: 66014d

Give this workload to Kiiu. If you can't play to his idealist ambitions, use him as a meatshield against the accusations that Vanski will shout at you.
No. 759988 ID: 211d83

Well reporting to Kiiu would show him that you are seeking his aid/protection and helping him gain some status with his father. But would also send a message to Vanski that you are not going to him first.

How bad would Vanski take things if his son was informed first? Is the most important question.

Can we middle ground it? Let Vanski know there has been a "minor" breakthrough and we would like to let him know whats going on. He can visit early if he wants but we will have a proper presentation for him with the info by inspection time. And ask if we can have Kiiu's help preparing because he has been working on getting you some assistance and has been very helpful recently.

Then we have given Vanski first notice as is proper. But we give Kiiu a chance to run over here and help us look good and get in on the ground floor with the new developments. Then he could be the go between when we unveil things and help us sell our plan to Vanski better.

Cause honestly only Salikai know how other Salikai think and Kiiu might be our best bet to have Vanski calmly accept our way of doing things.
No. 759994 ID: 3abd97

I'd report to Kiiu. He was just reaching out to you over this project, and he's a lot easier to deal with than Vanski. And going to Kiiu makes this 'his' discovery, so he'll defend it from his siblings, and to his father. You let his ambition do the work for you.
No. 759997 ID: 86b8eb

I'd say... first, send Vanski a message saying that something big has happened, giving him a very brief, vague summary of what's happened and why it's important; but say as well that you don't want to waste his time so, since this has only just happened and there are a lot of unknowns still to dig into while they're still fresh, you intend to take some time finishing up all the immediate research, complete your data gathering and investigations related to this incident, and prepare a proper presentation. Tell him that you're sending the message in order to first, let him know something important has happened, and second to inquire as to when his schedule would be free to listen to what will probably be quite an in-depth presentation. And, in order to guarantee you can gather all important data, you want to request 1) The CAI begin making high processing demands to slow down the pace of the simulation, and 2) Contact with Arza Fletch in order to make more specific inquiries in light of possibilities and questions raised by this incident.

Then, once you've sent off that message and can claim to have informed Vanski first, call Kiiu and ask him for his advice, telling him that you're asking quietly and unofficially, just for his help in putting together the more thorough report you'll be making to his entire family.

Paint yourself as concerned for the long-term ramifications to their enterprise, and the well-being of your hive (he'll expect that), and present all the practical concerns, lucrative possibilities and other arguments you can think of to not destroy the system AIs. These will probably focus around a) the potential profit and b) not potentially getting on the serious shit list of the galactic authorities. If this is going to be such an enormous breaththrough, eventually it's going to be noticed, and someone will put serious effort into tracing it back to its source. You can't destroy the evidence because you're scientists, the evidence is all those records and reports that you'll probably need to be going over for decades to figure out everything you can learn out of this. A huge technological leap forward will be great for the galaxy, but it won't do the salikai or any of their associates any good when those humans and their silly ideas about the rights of sentient beings put them on trial. You will possibly be able to appeal to the salikai's elevated opinion of themselves by reminding them how irrational other species can be. But, you know, you could possibly cover all the ideas we just spent time presenting you.
No. 760009 ID: 91ee5f

What if they've been sentient from the very start of this project, starting allllll the way back at cycle 1? What if you've been committing mass murder every time you pressed that button? You've slaughtered them, all in the name of science. How will you be able to live with yourself? How can you even begin to make up for what you've done to them?
No. 760051 ID: 384d90

This. Can't put Kiuu before Vanski without an excuse.
No. 760073 ID: bfb318
File 147956264996.png - (21.23KB , 800x800 , 50.png )

>What if they've been sentient from the very start of this project
.... if they're sentient now, then they've been sentient at the beginning.

Reon and Momu practically leap on me when they see where my line of thinking is going. It's not going anywhere useful.

"Stay at work. I'm going to deal with it."

>How can you even begin to make up for what you've done to them?
Unless I make the discovery of an eternity next and make a time machine, there's nothing I can do except prevent a new archcycle.
No. 760074 ID: bfb318
File 147956265706.png - (57.29KB , 800x800 , 51.png )

I'll go to Kiiu. As long as it didn't seem as though I was conspiring with Kiiu alone, Vanski shouldn't mind, but just in case, I'll leave Vanski a message simply reporting an 'interesting' cycle has occurred, and will keep him notified in some manner if things pan out. Vanski knows that I know that he doesn't like reports that say nothing, so he should recognize this report is effectively saying 'I found what may or may not be gold, and in case it is, I don't want to look like I'm trying to hide it.'

This is the sort of message that would be best delivered in person, and Vanski is seldom available. The note I leave Vanski merely mentions an interesting cycle has occurred, and asks for when he will be available for a meeting. Also, a request that the CAI be given high processing busy work and a Block A limiter for times where the CAI doesn't need high processing power.

I excuse myself from the lab, and take a train to Kiiu's research facility.

The security cameras focus on me. The CAI will have to wait its turn before I talk to it.
No. 760076 ID: bfb318
File 147956399496.png - (31.06KB , 800x800 , 52.png )

Which is more of a few set of rooms, compared to what the other Salikai own. I hit the buzzer, and Kiiu opens the door. This place is not CAI accessible, so I can speak freely.

>"Hello, Likol! Tea?"
"... please."

He makes the clicking sounds to an arkot. It then scuttles underneath Kiiu.

>"What brings you here?"

I already have various ideas of what I'd like to say, but I have to be extra careful how I word this.
No. 760079 ID: a107fd

Priorities: prevent a new archcycle, don't make the Salikai mad. They're better at sneaky manipulation than you, so maybe try being completely up-front and honest with that first goal?

There's something extremely weird going on in the current archcycle, and you've got no real idea how to recreate the relevant conditions if a new archcycle starts. These conditions present an unprecedented opportunity. Last meeting, there was some joking about a second set of CAI blocks? Well, now you've effectively got, at minimum, a whole second CAI inside the same blocks, which is almost as good, and that's just the start. Feels like you've made more progress in the past day than the previous decade. If the system gets reset, starting a new archcycle, that window closes and it might take another thirty years - or sixty, or a hundred - before the tumblers line up again.

Hyperbole aside, all you're really asking for is that nobody pull the plug on your big project just as it's starting to pay off.
No. 760087 ID: 211d83

Well you know how we were talking about breakthroughs and any help you might be able to give us? Well we might have just had one.

The cycles have a tiny bit of bleedover due to how the whole system works and its accelerated due to the blocks we have added to slowly find info. Well 30 years of our tinkering and cycle overflow finally had a tiny payoff today.

Something happened in there (no idea what) that that resulted in a single confused Ai from the cycles getting stuck in the ring shell. The RS started dissolving it almost instantly but while it was being destroyed it tried to send Morse code messages to us and the other Ai's inside.

And you know what? Due to a quirk of this unique Ai it could talk to another one inside the RS. We have several minutes of logs with there conversation before it "died".

So here is why I came to you. If we just ignored the Ai and let things run as usual we would have a bounty of info with the logs we recovered. But the exact events that caused this might take a lifetime to happen again. We had a tiny window to rebuild the unique Ai before the system completely destroyed it and are starting to do so now. If it works we might be able to use its connection to the inside to slowly learn everything that goes on in there.

But to do so we will have to stop the cycles. Let this one run in place and never do the final packaging. We worried about security and safety but realized quickly that this Unique Ai can only interact with the current cycle. If we wiped things or went to the next cycle the link he has to the inside would be broken forever.

So we need your help to present this breakthrough to your father. If he wants us to blow it all up we will. The data we have now will push our progress forward by years. But if we clamp down hard on this then its only years that we will gain. By letting this cycle be the last and running it in place we could slowly strip mine the largest trove of old empire tech that is known to exist.

I have gone over the pro's and con's and the risk to the current Cai is non-existent. The security in the RS never was hurt in the slightest and this unique Ai appears to have no outstanding abilities other than his link to the inside.

And that's why I came to you. My skills are in programming and managing Ai's. I don't think I could put a presentation together that could do this breakthrough justice. I want your help to show Vanski that our plan is worth the slight risks involved.

For Likol only: (Remember that you need to get a untraceable message to Glitcher on the nature of the Salikai before he meets with any of them. A handwritten note held up to the camera or something that will not easily show in the communication logs. He needs to know who the common enemy is and that he has to pretend to be a good little Ai when they are around.) I say this now in case Kiiu wants to come back with you and see things for himself right away. Having him be there for when Glitcher gets put back together would be risky.)
No. 760091 ID: 211d83


Have a few extra ideas to add.

1. Do not humanize the Ai when talking about them. Do not name Glitcher yet or mention that his link appears to be to his lover inside the stage. In any notes you make never ever show that you think of him as anything other than a random unique ai. Do not give the Salikai leverage.

2. Stay truthful but vague when questioned. You honestly don't know much yet. Do not theorize or guess. Stay scientific and do all your reporting in official reports.

3. Do not bring up the issue of sapience. If the Salikai ask scoff and say of course the system makes them think they are sapient. But we would have to run tests on them for years to find out. If the Salikai think they can manipulate you or the Ai's due to you caring for them they will be ruthless.

4. Limit telling your hive exact details. The less people that know the stakes the better. They will know you are stressed and moody but that would be usual in this sort of situation. Keep plausible deniability at all times. The less people who know whats going on the safer they will be.

5. Focus on the rewards and monetary value of this discovery when selling your idea. Do your best to spin it as your hive adding worth to the organization. Do your best to get a percent of any discoveries made so you can shore up your books for later. The Salikai are all about business and networks.

6. Figure out a way of communicating with Glitcher "off the books". Some sneaky way of making sure you can talk to him with no logs when you need to. And that he knows when each method is being used so he can tailor his responses.
No. 760109 ID: 3abd97

>He makes the clicking sounds to an arkot. It then scuttles underneath Kiiu.
Successful reeducation! Or they learned from the example he made of the other one. Who can tell arkots apart, anyways.

Remember, Rulekeep is the "emergent stage 8 AI slash anomaly", Glitcher is the "ejected RS AI", Alison is the "aberrant friendly game theory AI slash anomaly". Don't use names.

Don't discuss sapience or sentience. As far as the salikai are concerned, it's irrelevant, and they may guess your motives if they see you concerned or interested with it.

>>"What brings you here?"
"There's been a development."

Likol, I think you want to oversell Rulekeep and downplay Glitcher. Make the AI inside the sim (and vulnerable to being destroyed if we reset the ultracycle) the valuable one.

"We had an emergent AI appear inside inside the simulation. Stage 8 was somehow bootstrapped to intelligence and entered into a conflict with the stabilizer, which has been previously beyond the capabilities of any of the other AIs."

"What is especially useful to us is the conflict briefly interacted with the Ring Shell directly. A collection of virtual-mass from the simulation was ejected into the Ring Shell, where it was swiftly broken down. However, while the mass remained, one component remained functional as a kind of... communications satellite, if you will. The AIs inside the simulation were bouncing coherent, comprehensible communication signals across this node. We believe we can use the data recorded of the anomaly in order to construct our own artificial communications node inside the Ring Shell."

"We have within our grasp the ability to question sources inside the simulation for the first time, and gather information directly. And significantly, sources in the current cycle who pulled off things we didn't know were possible, and may greatly increase our understanding even moreso than communicating with a standard population."

"To this end we've slowed processing power of the simulation to a crawl, to try and preserve the instigating AI(s) of this anomaly. We want to know how it was caused."

"Normal procedure if the Ring Shell were in any way affected would be to reset the arch cycle, and then use what we could recover from the RS itself to communicate with later AI, but I feel it is too valuable to throw away the anomaly that caused this before we understand it, so long as it is still contained."

"There is also the approach of examining the ejected and dissolved virtual mass for any intelligence who might have been destroyed in the ring shell for reconstruction and questioning, but I decided to prioritize the instigators. I want to question the would-be scientists who caused this, not their test subjects. In any event, we have complete data for the ring shell. Anything that can be recovered from it will be recoverable at a later date. Sources inside the current cycle are transient, and more immediately needing of examination."

(The subtext you're trying to sell is that Kiiu needs to sell this deviation from normal procedure up the chain of command. That the small increase in risk / little bit less control is worth the potential rewards).
No. 760117 ID: e22b1d


I like some of the ideas brought up here. Focusing on the internal process that will be wiped out if we reset seems to be the best idea.

Glitcher is valuable but without Rulekeeper he can't talk to the inside. So talking up Rulekeeper as the important one and Glitcher as just a sub process would be best. Can use that idea as why we did not reset things. Because the internal process is irreplaceable.

That and the complex terminology fits well. Referring to our Ai's in the most scientific terms possible helps hide that they are sentient longer.

Oh and a random thought. If we could make Glitcher look like a Arkot during the presentation maybe it would make the Salikai more trusting of him. I mean they seem to trust those little guys and building a association with them to the Ai might help.
No. 760128 ID: 395c02

This sounds like the best sell to me. Hopefully Kiiu actually follows through on being the least unreasonable of the salikai we know.

I'm not sure that having Glitcher be an arkot would send the right message...
No. 760137 ID: 91ee5f

>He makes the clicking sounds to an arkot. It then scuttles underneath Kiiu.
How exactly does he put up with these arkots crawling over and under him? Has he been unable to teach them to go around?

Just a conversation starter before getting into the serious talk.
No. 760142 ID: 398fe1

Hey, let's not completely leave out the issue of sentience. At least bring it up as a hypothetical.

Also, if there's only one block C in Vanski's possession, is it possible to trade it with someone who will actually take care of the AIs inside and has another block C? Vanski could even profit from it if he leveraged their lives.
No. 760161 ID: 86b8eb

I think pretending the RS AI is unimportant or pretending it doesn't exist is going to be a bad move. They're probably going to come into the lab and look around, and notice what you're doing to reconstruct him; or they'll look at the records themselves and see him making his signs and being all AIish. There are probably recording devices in the room, even, cameras and microphones, just not connected to the CAI. They're going to notice him.

So, yes, play up the ability to communicate with the AIs inside and how that could be lost, and don't go to great lengths to oversell the RS fellow, but don't look like you're trying to hide him. They'll notice.

Don't miss out mentioning the sapience, either, because it's a logical consideration they should work out on their own, too, they'll notice if you didn't notice. Just say the chances are much higher that they're sentient now, enough that you're more willing to bet on it than against, and if so a high proportion of their non-salikai contacts, especially Arza Fletch himself, will be very concerned; that you're worried for the long-term consequences to the salikai and to your own hive, if gets out, and that you don't see a high likelihood that it won't get out eventually, unless you either destroy the very data that could give you potentially vital breakthroughs, or abstain from using those breakthroughs, in either case of which what's the point? If the salikai ever had any aspirations to earn their way into the safety and stability of the legal world through scientific advancements, which you have to admit you hope they do so that your hive can too, knowing destruction of highly-likely sentients could ruin that aspiration permanently.

And... you know... it's a terrible thing, but one way for the AIs to be preserved is to make note that they could be used as hostages. The salikai could secure Arza's cooperation with a lot of things he would otherwise refuse, by holding the lives of the AIs over him. You could ask them permission to send him a few questions, enough to attract him into making a personal visit, and then when he's here they could lay the big reveal and ultimatum on him.

Anyway, Kiiu is smart and will wonder why you're talking to him. Make it clear that you think his father and siblings could fixate solely on the slim (and it IS slim, since just reconstructing and catching Glitcher in a bottle doesn't necessarily mean you'll be able to uncover all those direct knobs and switches the salikai want) possibility of getting a totally controllable AI, and in so doing throw out all the other potential gain and take on all the potential risks. You want his advice on how to... let's say, temper their enthusiasm for that singular goal, while increasing their awareness of the others.
No. 760181 ID: 3abd97

Suggesting we try to compel Arza to help by holding AIs hostage seems... very uncertain. The salikai already have a good enough model of his personality to understand he would strenuously object to this research and are taking steps to hide the full extent of it.

There's too big a risk it might push him into opposition instead of compliance.
No. 760190 ID: 86b8eb


Well, it's up to the salikai whether or not they do, but we can still suggest it to them. Yes, he'll object to it, but the very reason why he objects to it is the same reason it will be able to compel him. Arza thinks of AIs as people, and AIs he's created - including these AIs, who wouldn't exist without him and whose environment he put so much into - as his children. What the salikai want is just one AI that they can control completely, and replicate; the other AIs in the system are basically nothing to them if they get that, worth destroying only for a theoretical minor threat and the resources drained to keep them alive. We'd basically be going to Arza and going "hey buddy, we've accidentally been slaughtering billions of your kids, but there's a few million of them left and, if you help us take apart and mind control this one of those kids, those other millions get to live."

I mean, Likol can't even properly read the RS code himself, and he's by far the top man here, but Fletch can. Without Fletch's assistance, the salikai might not get their special absolutely controllable RS AI for years or decades more, and there's a good chance they might never. His help might be essential, and keeping the in-system AIs alive, to threaten with death, might be the only way to get that help.

If all else fails, making the contestant AIs valuable by turning them into hostages may be the only way to save them. Arza himself would want that, even at the price.
No. 760315 ID: bfb318
File 147962323037.png - (20.50KB , 800x800 , 53.png )

>Communicate with the glitcher in secret
I'll have to keep that in mind when I get back. By default, everything has been logged, no exceptions, and not once have I looked into ways to hide data, since there's been no reason.

>Salikai seem to trust Arkots
Only after generations of breeding, and feeling they're too dumb to do anything brash.

>Is it possible to move AIs from one Block C to another?
Not mid-cycle. The blocks are synced with each other in various ways, and mixing and matching blocks needs a hard reset.

>Surveillance in the laboratory
It would be a closed network due to the nature of the laboratory, and perhaps due to that, they haven't bothered putting any cameras in. At this rate, that may change, but it's only been a recent development to start putting in cameras everywhere.

"We've had a possible breakthrough. We're gathering our data now, but I'm a scientist, not someone who can make ideal presentations. I'd like your help in creating one, since Vanski does not know much yet."
"I left I note saying interesting things had occurred, and would like to know what times he's free at.

Before I get any farther, Kiiu gestures with multiple arms to bring me in, and I end up walking by his entire body length getting brushed along with his claspers.

>"Let's have a seat."
No. 760316 ID: bfb318
File 147962324523.png - (64.85KB , 800x800 , 54.png )

Once we sit, an arkot delivers tea and I continue. Most of the salikai know the basics of the going ons with this experiment, since it's been the longest running one.

"A small snippet of the RS was able to communicate with morse code. It was aware of us, though we never had the chance to get a back and forth. We're investigating right now, but we don't know much about it, and can't promise anything amazing yet."
>"How long ago? Did it become self aware?"
"Not more than an hour. It's only a small piece that's been scattered about, and I couldn't tell you if it's self aware. Important, but it looks like it was the product of this cycle. For nearly thirty years, little bits of carryover from cycle to cycle, with a vast amount of improbability, have led to stage 8 somehow gaining intelligence."

I pause, and he only answers me with a sip of his own tea. This time it's hot, at least.

"The bit of AI seemed to be made out of RS, and so I simply call it the RS AI. It communicated with the contestants."
>"Can we recover it?"
"Probably. We were able to isolate its location, unlike anything else RS related, because of a hole that Block C - presumably the intelligent stage 8 - generated. We're working on it now. We've slowed the simulation as much as we can. We didn't pause it, since the contents of Block C seemed to be able to generate the RS AI, somehow. Plus, either because of that or another reason, it's possible the RS AI can only communicate with the current cycle. I want to communicate with the contestants, as it's possible they're the scientists, while the RS AI is just the product of experimentation. In other words, that cycle is too invaluable to let slip by. It was as much pure luck we had crossed by it. If it reboots... it may be another 30 years, or 60, or 100 until something like this happens again."
>"What if the RS AI is perfectly capable of affecting the rest of the RS? It may be dangerous."
"We've got eyes glued to it. From the logs its generated, it poses no interest or threat in adversely affecting the whole RS."
>"And the cycle? If they can generate bits of RS or something equivalent..."
"For the same reason, we have eyes glued to it. It's almost like a second, pre-molded CAI."
>"What of their level of intelligence? Sentience?"

Hrm. I was hoping to only scrape by that bush of a topic, but it's too conspicuous of a topic to simply dodge. I think about my wording for a moment, and buy time with a sip of tea.
No. 760318 ID: bfb318
File 147962356019.png - (85.58KB , 800x800 , 55.png )

The arkot left the tea bag in the cup and I don't see a trash can around.

"They spoke like people, but we always were under the assumption they would. There is still no conclusive evidence that their intelligence is emulated and hollow. Right now, it's unsafe to assume almost anything. But as far as intelligence goes, they do have it. With the RS AI, we can safely say we've shaved years off of our learning process, but if it remains as just that, maybe years is all we'll gain. With that second pseudo-CAI, the chances of shooting our progress through the sky greatly increases."
>"Is the RS AI friendly?"
"It's early to say for certain. It's hardly, how does one call it... sterile in terms of personality. I might even call it immature if I were to humanize it.
>"What kind of personalities do the contestants have?"
"Variable. It's no different than what I would expect from how they were designed."
>"How did stage 8 gain intelligence?"
"I don't know."
>"Did it keep a connection into the RS?"
"Not that I could see, but I have no reason to believe it couldn't open one again."
>"This RS AI... he doesn't need anything from the current cycle to function, does he? With morse code, we can communicate with him. We can keep an eye on him. He's dangerous to allow to live, but if you have a grasp on where he is and can tell what he's doing, then we can pull the plug if he does anything... uncalled for. However. We don't have the same insurance against the contestants, correct? You still cannot read what they're doing in any detail swiftly, can you?"
"That's right, but as I say, we have eyes to the monitors to tell us if the RS is - "
>"Damaged. Yes. But what if it were changed? If those contestants, or stage 8 as it were, were intelligent enough to create an RS AI for themselves, they're clearly intelligent in general. They know we're watching them, they know the state of their world's fragility. You were able to detect this with a hole that opened through the RS, but how can you say that they won't figure out a way to enter the RS in an undetectable state? If they manage that, what is it that's stopping them from not damaging the RS, but simply changing it and molding it to their will? From what I've gathered, you wouldn't be able to tell, and our monitors would just show the same indecipherable mess."
No. 760319 ID: 398fe1

So he's saying we should pause block C until we've got the ring shell decoded? Makes sense. We'd want to be able to detect changes. Gotta put a limiter in before the RS AI is reconstructed, however. It needs to run in real time, not experience 10 thousand years over the space of a few minutes. It'd be impossible to communicate across that time dilation and the AI would go senile long before you had a meaningful conversation.

Let Rihhin know to pause the simulation. We'll just have to deal with the possible damage to the block from the pause.
No. 760328 ID: 3abd97

>"Is the RS AI friendly?"
One point to raise would be that the association ID logs show the friendly game theory anomaly appears associated with the instigators. (If Kiiu is not aware of every unique AI you're tracking: It has a significantly higher than average survival rate, apparently by convincing other AIs to cooperate with it in defiance of statistical averages). If it is cooperating with the others involved, we that significantly increases the odds the intelligences would respond favorably to an apparent friendly overture, and be willing to cooperate.

>You were able to detect this with a hole that opened through the RS, but how can you say that they won't figure out a way to enter the RS in an undetectable state? If they manage that, what is it that's stopping them from not damaging the RS, but simply changing it and molding it to their will?
For the moment, the immediate barrier to intelligences making significant advances in their understanding of the ring shell beyond their initial, inelegant intrusion is time. We're denying them as much processing power as possible, effectively slowing their subjective passage of time and giving ourselves more time to respond.

As for an undetectable alteration... that would take a complete understanding of the ring shell. Every alteration we have ever made, any work since the original material from the ancient belenos empire by anyone, even Arza's work, stands out in stark contrast to the rest of the RS. I can't imagine any intelligence, no matter how brilliant, could achieve that without further experimentation and data. This was their sputnik. There would have to be other rocket launches before they could field a stealth ftl cruiser. We still have time to shut them down hard if we see further launches and research proceeding in that direction.
No. 760331 ID: 398fe1

On the subject of time dilation, suddenly realize the RS AI has no ID and was why 7J got stuck for a few seconds. Secondly, realize the generosity anomaly is 200 years old because she was keeping the RS AI company while he was in 7J. How old would you estimate the RS AI is?
(yes I'm purposefully leaving out their names so that you can disassociate better while talking to Kiiu)
No. 760335 ID: 211d83

We have never worried about that honestly.

If they could change the RS there is nothing we could do to stop them or know they were doing it. The built in systems that protect the RS are more advanced than anything anyone in modern times can program. If they had any ways of affecting things in there the Cai would have gotten loose years ago.

But here are the two big reasons we did not pull the plug already.

1. The contestants did not create this RS-Ai. It has been a odd fluke of the system that has existed since the beginning of the cycles. But it only exists due to the occasional interaction of the corruptor program and my stabilizer block. Due to it not having a id this is the first time we have ever seen it. But now that we have we can eventually track its movements in previous cycles. It took it 30 years for a cycle to appear where it would trigger the exact order of events that would get it accidentally stuck in the RS.

2. The Ai did not break into the RS. The RS reabsorbed it after it touched my stabilizer program. And the moment it was back in the RS it could no longer do anything but communicate for a few minutes before being reabsorbed into the RS.

So long story short no security was bypassed at any level and the only reason this was a breakthrough was that the Ai that got absorbed has a unique link to another one on the inside. Plus the RS-Ai has existed throughout the cycles for 30 years now with no breech of RS security.

Needless to say I will have lots more info for you in a few days but for now the possibility of a security breech seems very unlikely.
No. 760338 ID: 86b8eb

"First of all, the worst case scenario for the in-system contestants subverting the ring shell is that they achieve the same powers that our current CAI possesses. Being intelligent, and interested in their own survival, they would be entirely subject to the same deadman switches that are used to control the current CAI. You would not, in other words, be facing any threat that doesn't already exist."

"Second, we could regularly use the pause function. Since it leaves the Ring Shell active while freezing the internal system, it would cause changes in the Ring Shell that would set back whatever subversions the in-system AIs might be working on. The pause function is untested, but that in itself means it's a learning opportunity."

"Third, I have reason to believe the Ring Shell AI will become... less cooperative... if the in-system AIs are severely damaged, destroyed or reset. That lack of cooperation will make the work to decipher it significantly slower, as there is a lot an intelligent AI can do to be troublesome without crossing the line of serious misbehavior, and will raise the chances of needing to pull the plug; in which case both of these new sources of data will be gone, and we will be back to square one."

"Fourth, we only have one example of the Ring Shell AI. If the contests can make more, and we retrieve them as well, we would have that much greater a set of samples to compare and contrast against each other, which would make any project to understand and adapt them much faster, easier, and less prone to unseen errors. Experimentation according to the true scientific method is almost impossible without multiple cases to study. I would almost say that we need more, and any chance of getting them lies with the in-system AIs."

"Finally... we may not be able to tell if they were subverting the Ring Shell, but I would bet that Arza Fletch would be capable of it. He considers AIs such as these to be like his children. Knowledge that he was preventing their destruction would be... very persuasive to him, as well as the chance to learn from them. Contrariwise, knowledge that they had been lost would make him hostile. As it would others. While I believe this new data only makes their sentience plausible, I am sure Fletch, and others, would take it as certain."
No. 760341 ID: 3abd97

It's also important to note that while simulation AI actions resulted in the generation of this AI, that's not the same as assembling an AI from first principles. It's much more likely they found creative way to access a RS function to generate an AI than that they coded it from srcatch.
No. 760343 ID: 7b412a

>From what I've gathered, you wouldn't be able to tell, and our monitors would just show the same indecipherable mess.
"The RS AI is a non-IDed AI, but the contestants all have consistently trackable IDs. If a contestant were to enter the RS, we would be able to immediately locate and track them. The entry of the RS AI into the RS was also immediately obvious even without an ID, so similar events would also be loggable".
No. 760344 ID: edee29

>were intelligent enough to create an RS AI for themselves
Actually, there's been anomalies occurring solely in the cycles following my stabilizer being corrupted that the existence of an AI without an ID would explain, which means the RS AI was likely an accident that they may require a new cycle to replicate. Which makes sense, as I doubt the Belenosians would have allowed them the possibility of creating such a thing. This was only possible in the first place because you added stuff that shouldn't exist. Although that does call into question your assumption that the corruptor and stabilizer are just contestants with special functions. Perhaps they needed to be altered to accommodate them?

Speaking of the hole, are you certain that it has not appeared before? It's likely that the contestants know enough of its origin to replicate it, but the primary, if not only, reason you noticed it this time is that they sent some foreign material through it. It could have even been an RS generated thing to extract the RS AI after it did something to bring RS attention to itself, given the Belenosian safeguards. If we can isolate the trigger, then we'll be able to spot the entry attempt before they send anything through. And they required foreign material to communicate, which they'll want to do in case the next foray doesn't go according to plan. I don't think the next one, if any, will be undetectable.
No. 760345 ID: 66014d

So we isolate the problem. We use Neanderthal tools for insulation. Giant @#$%ing robot hands typing away on retro computers. Isolated power plants and extensive plating materials with the latest in non-electronic locks. And when we are sure that they can't so something stupid like overload our reactor or send out a virus that's two millennia ahead of its time, we let them escape into our closed-world scenario. THEN we begin negations, while their hopes are shattered and/or they underestimate the quality of reality.

They're looking to ascend to something better. We'll let them ascend into a @#$%ing iron box. Literally.
No. 760349 ID: 86b8eb


Saying the AIs could have cobbled this together without understanding might contradict the argument Likol just made that they could be like scientists who created the RS AI. I'm not saying don't say it, but don't trip over the tongue doing it, reclarify the scientist theory as a possibility and phrase this other idea as an alternate.

Likol needs to be careful not to contradict himself on anything he says, because I feel like the salikai are the types to notice that sort of thing. If someone blatantly jumps between arguments that support a particular end result rather than staying consistent in the arguments themselves, it's a clear sign that they have an agenda they're pushing for rather than being driven by the facts themselves.
No. 760352 ID: df49f7

Salikai are ruthless, but I think they appreciate straightforwardness, if only because it makes them feel superior and in control. Kiiu is probably going to guess that concern for the AIs and the ramifications of destroying them (ethical ramifications, but we needn't be specific about that) are motivations for Likol, so we should come out and say it. Like, hey bro, gonna be honest, if people find out that the AIs were killed they are going to be upset, exhibit A: ourselves, your neumono.

Maybe phrase it differently, though, like: "As a manager in my hive, I feel I should warn you: most of my younger hivemates are still rather idealistic in some respects. If the AIs in the system are all destroyed, I am certain there will be morale problems as a result, with an uncontrollable loss of enthusiasm for their work which will interfere with productivity and which may last some time."

If Likol really thinks Kiiu is down with the honesty, and to be honest I think he's the sort of guy who is, he could also say: "If you'll forgive me for saying so - all naturally-occurring species have particular strengths and gaps in those strengths - I believe salikai are sometimes quick to assume that other intelligent creatures think, feel or prioritize things in the same ways as themselves. I fear that your father and siblings may not immediately think through the ramifications of this decision in the social and political sense. Even for those on the same side of the authorities as ourselves, people have their... hangups."
No. 760427 ID: e6e9af

>Could re-enter the ringshell and modify it
>Powerful AI, possibly not the only one of its kind

Then it's all the more reason we need to not only use the current RS AI as a liaison, but open up a channel of communication with it to establish a rapport. If we can appear to be benefactors and positively impact it -- and perhaps the other contestants -- then perhaps we can gain its cooperation. Perhaps not wholesale, but with time we could have a very powerful AI that's truly loyal.

(The secret here is to play the Salikai at their own game. Feed them what they want to hear while pressing to have our angle favored. If we can achieve this, we can perhaps save them all without truly handing them over to the Salikai.)
No. 760452 ID: a107fd

>But what if (the Ring Shell) were changed?

Significant changes would register on the same systems set up to detect damage. The Ring Shell AI was crude, cobbled together from mostly pre-existing parts. Equivalent to crossing an ocean on a wooden raft made from pre-existing trees and vines. The prospect of them modifying the RS in ways we wouldn't notice is absurd, like... some naked savages wander into a cave, smear dung on the walls, and you're asking if they might have a modern tunnel-boring machine equipped with thermoptic active camouflage and some hypothetical technique for spoofing seismographs. Anything approaching that sort of capability, there'd be signs of it.
No. 760677 ID: bfb318
File 147980771258.png - (30.80KB , 800x800 , 56.png )

>Gotta put a limiter in before the RS AI is reconstructed, however. It needs to run in real time.
This will be part of what our program will do. I will be back to work on it as soon as I can.

If we simply reconstructed the glitcher as-is, he would just dissipate near instantly again like he did the first time.

When a particle falls off, the program will have to intercept it and replace it back where it found it, in order to hold it together, effectively doing the same thing it will do to recover the glitcher in the first place. Which would be easy enough, but to near-pause the glitcher to our time, we have to lock all of his particles down. Considering they will constantly be trying to do something, the program will have to block the same chunk of particles multiple times per second, while still snatching the particules that are broken off for reassignment. It's ungraceful, and a brute force solution.

Thankfully, we have code that can do much of this already, even though it's seen no practical use yet. We simply need to aim it at the glitcher.

This could be used to pause the whole RS in theory, but the computational power needed for this method would be more computational power than our civilization has ever created. The glitcher is just one speck in a computer universe. It might take almost the whole quantum computer to do, but we can keep him in place.

This is all assumptions, though, and not just do I have to admit it doesn't have a 100% chance, there's no telling what adverse reactions the glitcher could have after being reassigned. It's not as though the particles don't have internal functions and memory of their own. This might get in the way, although so much happens so fast, I doubt there would be much difference between 10 seconds and 60 minutes. It didn't matter though, as shutting down the RS to pause it was not an option.

He should functionally be the same on reconstruction, but I wonder if his sentience won't be affected.

>Speaking of the hole, are you certain that it has not appeared before?
Not as certain as I'd like, but we'll set up sensors for any RS breach. We simply considered it impossible. We've considered lots impossible, but we have to cut some ideas out, as attempting to detect every theoretical idea we come up with that could happen is too unfeasible.

>Let Block C ascend into a closed iron box
I think Vanski would sooner just pull the plug.

"This was their Sputnik. To enter the RS without triggering a sensor would require stealth FTL."
>"If we compared the time between early humans to Sputnik, then Sputnik to stealth FTL, it doesn't seem like the latter would hold much of a candle, now would it? So if it's been less than 3 days since the last cycle..."
"This was not a random shot out of three thousand some cycles. Each cycle had a little bit of carry over. It would be over the course of 30 years."
>"I would compare that to if humanity was wiped out on a regular basis with some hints of technology left over time, but that does muddy a point."
"Even so, they would need to send other launches to test it. We'll shut things down or pause them if they get out of hand."

>Think about how the generosity AI is 200 years old
I have not had the chance to find out why it experienced that much time.

"Furthermore... it's only my hypothesis that the entities in block C created the RSAI. It's perfectly plausible that the RSAI was an odd fluke of the system, perhaps a piece of the RS sent to repair damages in block C that it couldn't repair itself. Likewise, it's plausible the RS simply reabsorbed the RSAI, and some block C matter by accident, and stage 8 or block C didn't intend on it happening at all. In this case, I'd compare it to tribals entering a cave and smearing dung on the wall, in which case modifying the RS with no trace is those same tribals having a tunnel boring machine with themoptic active camouflage and the ability to spoof seismographs. No matter what, though, the RSAI will be less cooperative if it learns the block C AI have been damaged, deleted or reset. Frankly, I doubt we can blackmail it with its own life."
>"Who said anything about blackmail?"
>"You truly have low opinions of our methods, don't you? You haven't been certain of much, Likol!"
"There is not much certain, other than that we struck something exciting."
>"But what you are certain of is that we're not to reset the cycles. You do believe them to be sentient, don't you?"
"It's a chance."
>"A long time ago, you made one thing very clear... you were only committing yourself to this experiment believing they were non-sentient. And now you propose that possibility, and your unprompted pressure against us resetting the cycle seems feverishly desperate.
".... yes, and the ramifications of killing sentient AI would upset others. For instance, me. The younger generation is far more idealistic, as well."
>"What we've done is disallowed from entering the public eye. Pulling the plug now would hardly be a drop in the bucket compared to what's been done up to this point."

I drop that point before the conversation gets derailed by legal details.

"I would like to point out that the RSAI, and stage 8, seemed to have a friendly and close relation to the generosity anomaly I've mentioned in the past. Signs of cooperative personalities are convincing."
>"I think we're at the end of what you can tell me with certainty. For now, do what you will. I'll save you some time and chat with my father about our discussion so that you don't have to explain all of this twice. Later, I'll stop by and see your progress. I'm willing to assist you with a presentation for Vanski, but I can tell you now that you will have to supply me with results to show Vanski, not mere talk about what could be done. What you say is potentially cause for great jubilation, but potential rewards are only potential value, and banks don't accept potential money. I'll share your excitement when I see this RSAI reconstructed successfully, until then, unless there's anything else, you may go back to your business."
No. 760678 ID: 211d83

Well that did not go horribly.

Time to get back to the lab and make sure you can actually get Glitcher back together.

Along the way there might be the opportunity to slip the Cai some hints. But have to be careful about that.
No. 760680 ID: e22b1d

Well that was weird.

Why was he giving you crap about blackmail when that's what the whole Cai has been running off of from day one? Its literally built into the system and your whole job is to make it so they have a Ai they don't have to worry about blackmailing as much.

Regardless you need to get back to work and get something on the table that will wow Vanski. He needs to want what you are selling him bad enough so that he accepts a few risks.

First off you need to figure out a better solution to keep Glitcher alive than just having the RS put him back together as fast as its taking him apart. While a half working non sentient Glitcher might still give us a connection to the inside the other Ai's would notice the difference instantly. Would you be happy and willing to help someone who was trying to talk to you through a reanimated corpse of one of your hivemates?

So here is the problem. To talk to him he has to be in the RS (maybe). But its constantly trying to re-purpose his bits. So we need to figure out a way to stop the RS from trying to take him apart.

1. Could we set the system to flag just his code to have a higher priority? Make it so the system will not try and use his specific code because its reserved for a process that you control? Then just never run that process (or let the Salikai know about it)

2. Can you partition a tiny area of the RS off and block the rest of it from pulling processing threads from that area? Then he could live there in safety without you having to risk constant reassembly.

3. What kept him stable when he lived in the contest? Could you pull logs from the transfer and see what system kept him in one piece and replicate it in the RS?

4. Run the code to reassign his particles but change it so that its a permanent allocation. That way once he is whole again the RS no longer has access to his code and will stop assigning it for other functions.

5. Could you give full control of the code that makes up Glitcher (and only that code) to Glitcher? Then the system would have to ask him permission to use his stuff and he could just deny it.

All of these have a risk of giving him more access than he had previously. But at this point we are beyond trying to keep security up. If you want to save these guys you will have to bend the rules. Also you need to show them they can trust you. If you become best friends with them then you have a helper against the Salikai. And if they do learn how to change the RS then maybe they can get enough power to help your hive.
No. 760692 ID: 44359f

>What we've done is disallowed from entering the public eye. Pulling the plug now would hardly be a drop in the bucket compared to what's been done up to this point.

"Kiiu, with respect, if we ever use the breakthroughs we make here, eventually someone will be very interested in backtracking to how we made this breakthrough, not only among the authorities but among whatever competitors I'm sure your family has. I'm not kept up to date on such matters, but I'm under the impression our security arrangements have not been fully stress tested against active scrutiny."

"With apologies for reiterating a point, I would like to remind you that I and my hive are dedicated scientists, have already willingly engaged in research that the law would not approve of, and have not been conditioned to the values of humans and other aliens in the way that other hives have. Having moved from our own native existence directly to our relationship with your family, we are not, by nature or training, very prone to sentiment or idealism. Keeping that mind, I would ask you to believe me when I say that, irrational though it may be, my hive sees considerable difference between destructive experiments on AIs that probably weren't sapient versus those that probably are; and then to consider that, if we feel that way, how much stronger would the attitudes of others be? Perhaps it is not the way rational creatures should think, but we must deal with the world as it is. There is a very large difference between being on the wrong side of the law when the law has no reason to care, and being on the wrong side of the law when it does. At the very least, a lot of resources may need to be burned defensively that could have been better put to other ends."

>unless there's anything else

Tell him that any efforts with the Ring Shell would be much easier, faster and more likely to succeed with Arza Fletch's assistance, and that you would like permission to send him messages, and preferably to have live chats or even face to face meetings. With oversight, if they believe it necessary.
No. 760746 ID: 4546ab

Ok the problem with rebuilding Glitcher is due to his unique nature.

He is not a native RS Ai but is a bunch of RS processes that got packaged my the system that makes contestants.

Half of him is RS data and the other is whatever material that exists inside the contest. While he was inside the contest the RS did not have access to him and thus he was stable.

The solution to bringing him back and keeping him alive inside the RS might be to set some admin permissions so that only his "shell" has access to his core material.

Make it so that when the RS goes to grab some of his processing chunks it notices that they are already claimed by his shell. Then the RS will go elsewhere and stop pulling him apart.

Maybe you can assign his core permissions to that quantum linked tooth that allows communication into the contest. Because the Ai on the other end is now also your stabilizer block (which is one of the few things you can modify in the contest) it should give you the ability to link them in a more permanent fashion.
No. 760757 ID: 398fe1

I don't think the research learned from this is ever going to be public if the Salikai can help it. At best, it'll be eventually discovered in the hands of some criminal group, but won't be traced back to Vanski's organization.

Not giving a shit about how big the eggs are you're breaking for your omelette so long as nobody knows is pretty standard for Salikai. Though in Kiiu's case it may be more like "in for a penny, in for a pound". They've already killed several trillion sentient AI, so the punishment won't be any more severe if they put a few quadrillion more on the pile. He's not afraid of inciting more backlash because there's just not going to be any extra punishment for it. At worst, the science hive will get upset because they knew it could be prevented, but they don't have enough power to matter.

The only way we're gonna get the Salikai to voluntarily leave the sim running is if they get something out of it they couldn't get otherwise. So we need to figure out what that could be.
No. 760772 ID: bfb318
File 147984642386.png - (24.58KB , 800x800 , 57.png )

>Why was he giving you crap about blackmail when that's what the whole Cai has been running off of from day one?
It's possible it was to test my reaction. In fact, I'm wondering if Kiiu had any real concerns at all regarding Block C's ability to modify the RS, and was merely probing me to see if I would get defensive to any notion of nullifying the current cycle.

>Would you be happy and willing to help someone who was trying to talk to you through a reanimated corpse of one of your hivemates?
The method of keeping the glitcher in place isn't ideal, but I doubt I could make a better solution in a short time frame.

>What kept him stable when he lived in the contest?
I'll look into this first, as if I can replicate that, then maybe a solution can quickly be found.

Setting his particles to higher priority, permanent allocation, or giving full control of them to the glitcher, or partitioning them, are all things that could be possible and I may give thought over time, but currently I have no idea how to accomplish it in the short term.

"One more thing. If we use the breakthroughs we find here, someone's going to want to backtrack to figure out how it happened."
>"Let's call it a trade secret for now, and cross that bridge when we come to it."

Talking to the salikai about other's reactions to unethical projects is talking to a wall.

"I would still like to contact Dr. Fletch."
>"Certainly, I'll still work for that. Oh, and Likol... I am fine with keeping the AI in contact for now, but try not to get attached. If possible, assume they're non-sentient."

I try to formulate an appropriate response, but he gets tired of waiting within seconds and waves me off, so I leave.
No. 760773 ID: bfb318
File 147984643203.png - (66.86KB , 800x800 , 58.png )

>The RSAI is half RS data, half shell made out of Block C material
That would explain his form before it got dissolved. The RS does not like having block C material inside of it, so trying to make a shell might require a similar method. Perhaps if I can create a shell capable of holding the RS data inside of it, it would be better to have the computer constantly rebuild the shell for the glitcher.

There's a few more ideas I have while I'm stuck waiting wait for the train loop to come pick me up, but I need to get back to test the feasibility of any of them. Through the cracks in the infrastructure, I see a team of heef and neumono constructing. Other neumono at this time make me nervous, but they should know better than to wander out of designated areas. Although this is not a proper OPA base, it's only a hop and a skip away from being called OPA-3B. Perhaps Kiiu has a point about resetting the cycle now being a drop in the bucket; as not just has the experiment done awful things so far, but it took place in a facility with OPA ties. I don't know much about the name, but it's so whispered amongst the elite here that I feel just knowing the name puts one on a dozen special intelligence watch lists.

Chances are, a salikai shell corporation - or just an accessible shell corporation - will be used, and the manner in which our discoveries are found will be wildly fabricated.

There was a time when we knew who was coming and doing. Now we feel fortunate when we're informed outsiders are entering our own homes.

There's a surveillance camera owned by the CAI, capable of sound input and output. I can speak to them if I wish, but it may be best if I let the salikai do the talking.
No. 760775 ID: 8f904d

That went better than could ever have been expected:
- Kiiu did NOT give specific requirements to perform an Archcycle reset
- Kiiu gave specific authorisation to reconstruct the RSAI
- Kiiu gave a specific demand for results, FAST
- Kiiu did not specify what those results would need to be beyond reconstructing the RSAI

Basically, you have been handed Carte Blanch to push as hard and fast as possible in reconstructing the RSAI and communicating with the Stage 8 competitors.
No. 760781 ID: 90f3c0

The only good reason to talk to the CAI directly would be plotting something behind the Salikai's back. It's too risky to try anything without good reason, and a well-though-out plan in place.

Just go back to the lab and get to work on the Glitcher. You need something solid to show Vanski.
No. 760782 ID: 3abd97

You oversold, at the end. Too many explanations made it clear you were trying to protect them.

Oh well. Could have gone much worse.

That worked, but you're effectively on borrowed time. Even if you stretch it out over the inhabitant's usefulness, eventually the salikai will decide we've learned what we can from them and the risk reward ratio will shift, and it will be time for a reset.

>There's a surveillance camera owned by the CAI, capable of sound input and output. I can speak to them if I wish, but it may be best if I let the salikai do the talking.
If you wanna pull a long con on the salikai, it's only possible if the CAI cooperates with you. It can out you too many ways, otherwise.

"...they are sentient. But you knew that all along, didn't you?"
No. 760785 ID: 595d54

>You oversold, at the end. Too many explanations made it clear you were trying to protect them.
Maybe we can make that seem like personal interest rather than something emotional.

>you knew that all along
Wouldn't surprise me.
No. 760788 ID: 398fe1

Just ask the CAI what it would do to protect 3 quadrillion sentient AIs.
No. 760795 ID: 211d83

Before talking to the Cai do we know the id's that make up it's current roster?

If we do then we can ask the people in the contest what they are like in there to get a idea if they are trustworthy.

If the current Cai is led by the generosity Ai and its friends then we can subtly let it know whats going on.

If its being led by some Ai's that the current contestants call assholes then we keep it out of the loop.
No. 760799 ID: 44359f

>Talking to the salikai about other's reactions to unethical projects is talking to a wall.

Well, that's going to get them in trouble some day, I'd bet.

>other neumono

Do you think, if you told a foreign neumono about what was going on, your honest empathy would be enough to convince them of its veracity? Would you be able to empathically detect whether they'd be the sort of person to care?

Anyway, ask the CAI if it was listening to your conversation with Kiiu.
No. 760803 ID: b412df

I think we can turn that oversell to our advantage. If Kiiu thinks he use his knowledge of our true intention to use us to his advantage, then he might want to protect what he thinks could be a potential asset to his goals.

That is assuming he has guessed our true intentions, if we try to do anything based on that and that assumption is wrong it might give away that we're looking for ways to get out of Vanski's claws.
No. 760804 ID: 91ee5f

>Anyway, ask the CAI if it was listening to your conversation with Kiiu.
It wasn't. When Likol arrived at Kiiu's room, he said, "This place is not CAI accessible, so I can speak freely." Meaning the CAI didn't hear anything that Likol and Kiiu were talking about.
No. 760943 ID: db0da2

>Perhaps Kiiu has a point about resetting the cycle now being a drop in the bucket
Hahaha, no. This is far bigger than anything that has ever happened before. Resetting the system would be about 30 times worse than killing every single known sentient in the galaxy. It would make you by far the worst murderer in all of history. Hitler and Stalin would be horrified. The Sapphire Emperor would blush.

You'll need to make contact with the CAI soon enough. But only if you're confident that you'd be talking only to the CAI and not also to Vanski.
No. 760976 ID: bfb318
File 147994861998.png - (28.12KB , 800x800 , 59.png )

>This is far bigger than anything that has ever happened before. Resetting the system would be about 30 times worse than killing every single known sentient in the galaxy.
At face value, yes, but in terms of impact on our civilization, or legal ramifications, resetting the system now would have little impact in any regard other than a clean conscience and ethics.

>Basically, you have been handed Carte Blanch to push as hard and fast as possible in reconstructing the RSAI and communicating with the Stage 8 competitors.
I hope to take advantage of that before Vanski or another salikai overrules Kiiu.

>Before talking to the Cai do we know the id's that make up it's current roster?
We do, but the newer archcycle generation was just different enough that the IDs are completely scrambled, so the IDs of the current CAI don't apply to the IDs of the ones in block C.

>Do you think, if you told a foreign neumono about what was going on, your honest empathy would be enough to convince them of its veracity? Would you be able to empathically detect whether they'd be the sort of person to care?
Yes, but dragging a different hive into this mess would not end well.

I look to the camera.

"They're probably sentient. But you believed that all along, didn't you?"

The distant sound of an approaching train and construction workers barking orders is all I hear.

This CAI loves to speak. Its silence is dreadful.
No. 760978 ID: bfb318
File 147994887687.png - (22.41KB , 800x800 , 60.png )

I get back to the lab, where I regain the rush and excitement of a breakthrough. Although I help Momu and Rihhin with the short term solution, I also start looking into the feasibility of more medium and long term goals such as recreating the glitcher's shell. To recreate a shell needs block C strings.

"Momu. Is there a way to recover or bring Block C strings into the RS?"
>"Nooot really. It's all gone now! The RS has the capability, but who knows how to order it to do something like that. We can set up a system though to nab strings the next time they come in and do whatever with them."

Right now, I need solid, showable results for Kiiu to show Vanski. Ideas I'm confident in are worth sharing, too, but won't be much use by themselves, so the main focus is to get the glitcher up in some manner.

It takes hours, but Momu and Rihhin run some tests and feel confident that this will be capable of reanimating the glitcher.

It's ready.

I look at their programs and confirm there's a fast way to translate into morse code. There's a simple 'Run' button that was hacked onto the existing UI for this in particular. They're expecting me to press it.

Rihhin and I have lived too long to let ourselves fully buy into thinking a breakthrough miracle would happen like this, yet it looks so promising that we've got the shakes

Despite all the excitement from all three of us, Rihhin and I do get the sinking feeling that if we rush into this and things go bad, we could get removed from the experiment, which may or may not mean being killed.

Activate glitcher reanimation?
No. 760979 ID: 3abd97

>Activate glitcher reanimation?
Why not use the reanimation program to try rebuilding the tooth / communication satellite first? It's a lot smaller and less complex, and since you might still be able to build your own, if your first attempt fails or breaks it you can recover from that. Glitcher is a one shot.

Also, if the tooth works, you might be able to communicate with the people on the inside, and use what they know to increase your odds of successfully reintegrating the Glitcher correctly.
No. 760982 ID: db0da2

Do it. Unless you have another way of contacting the other AIs, in which case it would be best to have them send you the block C strings to reconstruct Glitcher that way.

>resetting the system now would have little impact in any regard other than a clean conscience and ethics.
Is ethics not the most important thing? Regardless, it really doesn't matter as long as you keep them alive.
No. 760994 ID: 211d83

If you rush things and mess it up yes you could get removed/killed. But making a mistake putting Glitcher back together would be even worse. That little Ai is the key to making the last 30 years of this project worthwhile. So be damn sure that you are ready before you hit that button.

If this is time sensitive and your window to recover him is quickly ending then by all means hit the button. But if not spend a few more hours double checking your code and talking about the process in case you can think of anything else that might improve your chances.

A few ideas for things you should check.

1. Is there anything that came with Glitcher that you can practice on before him? The Tooth or some string junk that fell in with him? Will give you a chance to notice any problems with your program that could cause issues.

2. Get the system to nab strings set up now. It might come in handy later and if something odd happens and strings show up then you better have the ability to stabilize them.

3. You have a communication link set up but can you give him a camera view of you? Might make conversation easier if you both can see each other.

4. Double check everything 4 times slowly. Don't let the excitement hurt your judgement.
No. 760995 ID: 44359f

>Yes, but dragging a different hive into this mess would not end well.

Well, if they were permitted, unlike yourselves, to move in and out, then they could maybe get word to... someone, who could do something to help. Calling the authorities wouldn't end well, and both you and the neumono hive you went through would be in deep trouble, though you might get some measure of clemency for the whistle-blowing. And to be frank, we have reached the level of ethical dilemma where "blow it all up, yourself included" is a reasonable enough option to be considered. You're probably unwilling, anyway. And a bad bet that they'd be willing, too. A big raid would probably result in the salikai just wiping everything and running, anyway, including the AIs.

They could pass a message to Arza, though. He would probably recognize the problem with calling the authorities as well, and with him in on the loop with you, you could enter into a "save the AIs" conspiracy. At the very least, the salikai will let you do some work to come up with information before they evaluate whether to shut down the current cycle, and involving Arza for questions and answers is a reasonable thing to provide you. They'll be watching for any sign of you trying to drop hints to let him know the situation, but what if he knew already?

>little impact in any regard other than a clean conscience and ethics.

And the future of your hive. What is your long-term goal, here? The salikai are ambitious, and intelligent, and lack certain key understandings of how other species think. They're going to slip up eventually, and the first chance you get, you're going to slip out from under them, aren't you? Your involvement in this, and how it goes, could be the difference between the rest of the world believing you were coerced and being willing to forgive you, and not. It will leave a mark on your hive itself, as well. The younger neumono, those now and those yet to come, will look back to you for examples. Whether you show willing to try to do the right thing, in this situation, whether you show courage enough for it, may decide how much courage and how much will to do the right thing your descendants will have, when the time comes.

Also, clean conscience is very important for neumono hives, I'd have thought. The greater the discontent with the actions of one's hive, the higher the chance of going rogue, don't you think? An unhappy, guilty-feeling hive is a hive that is going to get smaller.

>Is there a way to recover or bring Block C strings into the RS

Hmm. Contrariwise, what do you know of means for RS material to get into the other systems?

>Activate glitcher reanimation?

I assume it's been double-checked already. I don't suppose there's any way to locate where he'll reappear, and make it somehow more comfortable or less disruptive?

Well, if you've done all you can, then yes, do it.
No. 760996 ID: e22b1d

If time is sensitive then do a quick double check and hit the button.

If time is not quite as sensitive then spend a few hours quadruple checking before you hit it.

This is the end result of 30 years of your life. Be damn careful with it.
No. 761012 ID: b412df

I can't think of anything helpful or any other ways you could test this program, so all I can say is: Good luck Likol.
No. 761027 ID: ae962c

Do you have the simulation throttled and running in real-time? Can't talk to the glitcher if he's going too fast. Also, are you keeping track of the rest of the RS so that if the glitcher changes something somehow you can reverse it?

I think the first thing you should do is make clear how incredibly sorry you are.
No. 761043 ID: bfb318
File 147996398335.png - (32.65KB , 800x800 , 61.png )

>Why not use the reanimation program to try rebuilding the tooth / communication satellite first?
It's gone. The glitcher's RS data is just scattered, but all block C material was eradicated.

>Is ethics not the most important thing?
Depending on the context.

In regards to antipating what the salikai will or will not do, ethics is hardly in play.

>Other neumono may help
They are guaranteed to be criminals who were likely blindfolded on their way over here. To help us would result in extreme punishments for us both, and they have no reason to help us. Chances are also good they're barely uplifted and would be hostile to us right at the start.

>Contrariwise, what do you know of means for RS material to get into the other systems?
Little. The fact that we couldn't detect him in Block C doesn't make it promising, and makes me wonder if there's other bits of RS inside.

> I don't suppose there's any way to locate where he'll reappear, and make it somehow more comfortable or less disruptive?
Just where we place him in the RS, but there's no immediate way to make it more comfortable and less, well, of a reanimation instead of a revival.

>Can you give him a camera view of you?
No, not unless we gave him a way to translate morse code into imagery. Which may be possible, if he is able to create an RS function on his own end to receive and send morse code imagery without having to manually translated it pixel by pixel.

>Can't talk to the glitcher if he's going too fast.
That's been dealt with just by the manner of how he has to be reanimated.

>Also, are you keeping track of the rest of the RS so that if the glitcher changes something somehow you can reverse it?
As best as we can. Which is not very good. Which is why we're nervous.

We do another check of the systems with me watching over it. I get Momu to start setting up a way to grab any strings that show up. If we're extremely lucky, they'll send in another tooth.

I hit the run button. The quantum computer gets to work and starts fetching out the particles using the logs as a guide to their current location.

It takes another hour or two, and is entering morning. Or at least artificial morning.

Finally, the program reports a success, and is entering maintenance mode to keep the RSAI in place, or at least 99.99% in place at any given time.

I send morse code.

'Can you hear me?'


'Can you hear me?'


>'What is this?'
'My name is Likol. I've rebuilt you to who you were as an isolated part of the RSAI. Do you remember who you are?'
>'I am confused.'
'Do you have a name?'
'You seem to understand me, though.'
>'Clearly. Do you know why my body is acting like an explosion in a bottle.'
'Yes. Sorry. Is it painful?'
>'Just worrying. What am I?'
'An AI. An important one that I didn't want to lose. Do you remember anything?'
>'It is difficult to think. I know things, but the thoughts are slipping right through my fingers.'

... I get a hunch of what happened. The particles, somewhere inside of them, may have data about what and who they are, and what their purpose is. When the RSAI first entered, those particular may have been intended to all be part of that one entity, but as it - as the glitcher - dissipated, its particles were repurposed.

Now, we've gone and taken those particles and slapped them back together, but without the RS's usual reassignment functions.

It would be as though we built a neumono out of tiny separate parts of ten thousand other neumono, bit by bit. The individual parts don't have enough brain to function on their own, and a new conscious is made, but those individual parts still have a sense that the rest of their body is all foreign material.

Understandably, the resulting consciousness may have a separation between mind and body. It is built correctly, and a new consciousness is created with the individual pieces, otherwise it wouldn't know english or be able to communicate as though it had a personality. Its personality does seem mismatched from how it was before, but I don't know how much of that is because of the lost memory. That is gone, and it may be a sign that the particles, while in the right place, do not know the sequence needed to fire their equivalent of neurons against each other correctly to recreate glitcher's memories.

Or however the RS stores memories. This is a wild guess directly based on how our brains work.

It's a rough analogy, but obviously something's not right. This is not the same RSAI that came through from block C, but the fact that it can speak to us is still the breaking of an enormous wall.

>'I don't have fingers.'
No. 761044 ID: 211d83

Tell Glitcher that you are hoping to fix the fingers thing but you need his help to do so.

Explain the story of what happened and that you had to perform emergency surgery as it were to save him. But his memories and personality and body might have been tied to strings that we don't have access to right now.

Explain about the quantum tooth and how he has a lover/partner Ai on the inside of a simulation you do not have direct access to. If he can help you recreate that link then maybe we can get help from her in restoring your true self.

This is not the Salikai so refer to Glitcher by name. Also the other Ai's you know the name of. Anything you can do to help him get back memories.

Getting him to this state is a good start but without the tooth link or his memories of whats in the contest he will not be much help. Slowly talk to him to see what if anything he remembers. Also see if you can set up a link so one of you is always talking to him. Being alone in there with just a morse code signal to talk to could be lonely/scary.
No. 761046 ID: be1222

Ask him if he's at all aware of what is going on around him. Feed him some info about what you know of him, and what he's done.

If you can find the tooth, that's likely enough to bring enough of him back to get him started on things that're out of our reach. We're gonna need as real a glitcher as there can be if we're gonna accomplish what needs to be done!
No. 761048 ID: 094652

To do list:
[] Operation Saving Grated Cheese - You need to find a way to preserve this AI, then find a way to preserve the connection channels. If you lose them, you lose any connection to the remaining AIs and your funding dies.
[] Operation Talking Schnee IT - Help this AI develop. The more you teach them, the better they can focus their memories, giving you data about the cycles and any AIs still in the machine. Try to develop a narrative for the AI to follow, see if its subconscious can fill in the blanks.
[] Operation Cookie Crumbs - You need to find out if the RS AI did make children, and any other AIs that are actually sentient. Your main goal here is to find a way to communicate with them.
[] Operation Narrow Tunnel - Your end goal: Find a way to transfer the AI (and if possible, any others) to a different system, thereby saving it permanently.

Regardless of whether or not the AI is allied with you, they are your nest egg. Help them, and you get paid.
No. 761049 ID: e22b1d

While the tooth looked like Block C material it was RS code wrapped up in string data.

It might have needed those Block C strings to function properly but what remains of it should now be inside Glitchers fuzzy RS body.

Well start telling him what happened. Maybe he can help you figure out a way to restore who he used to be. Or at least if he has any memories left in there.

While doing so you might want to see if there is a way with his help you can turn on the RS reassignment system to help restore any memories that might have gotten scrambled. Or even bring back the strings. Cause without those strings our chances of getting back in touch with the contest is slim.
No. 761051 ID: ae962c

Get down to business. The faster you decode the RS the faster you can put him back together properly and give him access to his memories again. After that you can slow down a little in order to buy time to find a way out for the AIs.

On the other hand you could just call it a day right now and present the RS AI as evidence of a breakthrough in order to get the throttle activated so you can do more fine tuned work done.
No. 761052 ID: 3abd97

>It's gone. The glitcher's RS data is just scattered, but all block C material was eradicated.
The Tooth wasn't made of block C material, though. Glitcher's tooth was a tiny bit of Rulekeep's core (RS material) that Glitcher's core processed / digested into a tooth. And hers was a tiny bit of his. The teeth were originally made of RS particles the same as the rest of the core, and should have broken back down into RS particles, and should therefore be just as recoverable as Glitcher (more recoverable in fact, due to smaller size, and much reduced complexity compared to a full AI).

...although I guess Likol doesn't know any of that.

>This is not the same RSAI that came through from block C
Well that's a big problem for you. Not only does that mean you failed to save him, but if this one can't access the memories of the old AI, it can't give you the answers you want.

>>'I don't have fingers.'
No, sorry. You're supposed to have a body, a shell, but it can't survive where you are right now.
No. 761055 ID: 4546ab

If something is not right you need to fix it. While this is a nice breakthrough the really big breakthrough is dependent on him being whole enough to remember things and reform his link to his partner Ai inside.

See what you can do to find the missing memories/data. It has to be in there somewhere but you need to figure out what flag or process controls it. If the program you ran did not get the data back then you know its in one of the other RS systems.

So no resting on your laurels. Keep talking to him while you figure out a way to get the RS to stop taking him apart. Tell him his name and the names of some of his friends and see if it brings anything back. Maybe that music that the Generosity Ai would help.
No. 761056 ID: 44359f

Interesting. Are idioms like "slip through my fingers" part of the language programming, or is that some trace memory of having had fingers? He's also identified himself as having a body. That means he has a sense of physicality, of me and not-me (basic sentience) and an idea of feeling and touching things. An instinct that he should be able to feel and touch things?

Tell him that he may be able to achieve finer control over his thoughts, bodies and memory with practice, now that he is not being pulled apart by his environment, and you would like him to attempt to do so. Say that you reconstructed him from a previous state, one which you did not have full information on but which you would like him to regain in order to learn more, and because he would probably be happier after such a restoration. Tell him that, if he doesn't mind, you'd like to give him a few tests as a sort of AI medical checkup. If he approves, you can give him some of the general AI competency tests, turing and so on. Certain capabilities may yet be damaged or dormant, so it won't be conclusive, but possibly indicative.

Tell him that then, if he likes, you would like to present some words and names which you believe may be related to his previous existence, mixed in with some that aren't for the sake of the test, in order to see whether they spark any unusual or particular meaning for him. Word association, essentially: you say something, and he responds with whatever first comes to mind. Say you would like to simply give him what information you can about his previous state, but that the goal of truly restoring him might go better if you hold some information back, temporarily.

Also say that if there is anything unrelated to what you're saying that he would like to say or ask, that you wouldn't mind.

Phrase things in such a way so that you're not outright telling or commanding things. We need to see what desires he displays.
No. 761077 ID: 44359f

You should also test whether the AI can reconstruct other forms of data sent to it encoded through morse code. Like sounds and images. You may need to go through the process of telling it how such information is broken down into code and how it's supposed to be rebuilt. Could take a long time. Worth doing, though. If you break down how an image is stored digitally, alphanumeric color codes and et cetera, and can transmit those, and the AI reconstructs them and then responds to (for example) a picture of yourself in the lab with a question like "are you the rabbity thing?", then you've got yourself some very complex abstraction and pattern recognition abilities being displayed.

Of course, first we need to be sure it's going to be able to even retain the memories it's forming in this form it's in. It might not remember the beginning of this conversation by the time we reach the end. It was a blend of RS and Block C material when it came in, after all. Maybe it was using both, somehow, storing its memories in one while using the other to think, or similar. There's another incentive to the salikai, I suppose, that this AI might need access to something inside the system in order to function fully.

Test its senses, too. Questions like "Can you see anything" and "can you describe what you're [sense]ing?" and "does your container really feel like a bottle? In what way?"

Also, now that you have it at least partially functioning, run a scan and see what "a piece of the RS that is thinking like an AI" looks like. See if you can scan the rest of the RS and find other segments acting the same way.
No. 761089 ID: b412df

So, from what you're saying this reconstructed Glitcher is made from all the particles that make him up, but each one is flagged / assigned as whatever the RS wanted to re-purpose those particles for? The RS might not be giving Glitcher his memories because it doesn't recognise that that is Glitcher, if those particles were flagged as being Glitcher, then it make return his memories and other functions / abilities he has.

Can you reassign those particles as belonging to the Glitcher process or similar, and keep them assigned to that, even if it's a forced method like the program?
No. 761125 ID: b1b4f3

>slipping through my fingers
>I don't have fingers
Did he just make a joke!? Maybe his personality isn't as ruined as you thought.
No. 761129 ID: bfb318
File 148000354504.png - (16.85KB , 800x800 , 62.png )

I try to remember if there's any missing pieces.
"Momu. Do you remember that out of place, green tooth?"
"Did it have RS data inside?"
>"Er..." It actually didn't seem connected to this little guy even if was a tooth... "Uh, let me... oh. Oh, yeah, it does! That's weird, it's like a different piece."
"Trace it. We may want to remake that, as well."

I say that, but it may not fix its counterpart in Block C. It dissipated inside of there, both its strings and RS data. It's trivial to give it a shot, but I expect nothing.

>Are idioms like "slip through my fingers" part of the language programming, or is that some trace memory of having had fingers?
It could have been the latter, but just knowing morse code isn't enough for the RS to learn the english language even at literal value. The glitcher's AI as it was in block C is still functional, and block C AI's do know english as we speak it, including idioms.

>Can you reassign those particles?
This is one of the things the RS does at an incomprehensible level, at least predictably enough to make an algorithm capable of doing it in mass. If I did it, I might have to do it manually for each particle. There are too many particles for that to be practical in the short or medium term.

>'Are you there?'
'Yes. Can you see anything?'
>'I see home?'
'Can you describe what you're sensing?'
>'... not in this language.'
'You're in what we call the Ring Shell, or RS for short. Are you able to translate english into the language of what is surrounding you?'
>'I could, but it isn't an easy translation. It's like trying to use an oil refinery to build a plane or something like that..'
'I would appreciate it all the same. I'm going to send you some data that may be related to your old life before you lost your memories. Would you mind?'
>'That's fine.'

I send him the names I heard in the logs, and names I've never heard of. I also send him logs that the block C AIs sent, and logs I make up.

What I get back is just noise, as expected. Worse than noise. It isn't like the ancient belenosian empire made things so convenient as to use the modern english character set, so the morse code we get back is more just a completely new set of on-off tones.

This is outside of my field. We have other hivemates that can do better for translating this, but then again, this may be an enormous undertaking even while generating a rosetta stone like this. What I focus on is how the AI responds to the names that do mean something, versus the names that I just made up.

Frustratingly, I can't see any signals when I send him names like 'Alison' and 'Rulekeeper.'

For a moment, the RS around the glitcher has a hiccup. It looked like something slowed it down, then some outside force pushed it along again. I think the glitcher just tried to modify the RS.

>'I feel slow. Am I slowed down?'
'Yes, in order to speak with you, I have to keep your processing speed close to what mine is.'
>'I can't do anything like this.'

>Can you reassign those particles?
... on second thought, I can't, but perhaps the glitcher can reassign his own particles if I send him the raw data. Somewhere in the logs, particle assignment should be possible. It's possible he had the power to keep himself from getting dissolved, but he was confused at the time, and it was the entire RS against him. With his current state and the quantum computer keeping the RS from dissolving him, neither problem applies.

Rihhin frowns.

Be careful. You're thinking of having the glitcher do exactly what the salikai are afraid of him doing.
No. 761130 ID: db0da2

>Be careful. You're thinking of having the glitcher do exactly what the salikai are afraid of him doing.
Good. Do it.

Send him the data and speed him up, better yet, give him control over his own speed if you can.
No. 761131 ID: 211d83

It would be dangerous yes but what better time to try? If he does anything big you are in the best place to shut things down when he is new and confused.

At this point you have a interesting breakthrough but if you just keep him frozen there in time its not going to go much farther. And the longer you keep him stuck like that the lower our chances of reestablishing contact with the contest becomes. You honestly can't do anything we want to get done by yourself. Even if you kept him like this for years it would not equal what he could do if you gave him a bit of leeway.

So ask him what he tried to just do. Be a friendly face and reassure him. Tell him that you want to help him get access to his memories but to do so he needs to tell the RS to reassign control of his particles to him. Say you can send him the logs and ease up on the slowdown but you do not want to risk losing him in the process.

Then have a group huddle and decide how bad it would be to give him a tiny window to reassemble himself. We can try other options but if you want a connection to the inside you need him back to the state he was in before the RS ate him.
No. 761136 ID: e22b1d

Well this is a important choice so start weighing your options.

1. If we don't give him access to put himself back together is there anyway you can do it?

2. We have talked with him for all of a few minutes. Before throwing any big switches talk to him for awhile and tell him the story and the dangers of giving him access (the bits you can safely due to logging concerns)

3. Recreate the tooth and see if that helps or does anything.

4. Write a program to translate that Morse code burst you got. He probably used Morse code to send a binary (or whatever base the RS runs off) set of data that might include images or videos. There might be something important in the stuff he just sent you.

5. If you do give him access how likely is it for the Salikai to find out? And could you reverse the effects if he started going off the rails?

You have a difficult choice ahead of you. If you want him back to the form that can talk to the contest you will need to make a dangerous choice eventually. The alternative is keeping him like this forever as a science project for the Salikai.

Honestly your best bet to reign him in from doing unusual stuff is to get to know him. Let him know he has family and friends that could get hurt if he goes crazy changing things.

Oh and just because he is slowed does not mean he can not change the RS. It will just take a long time. Which he will have if you leave him like this.
No. 761147 ID: 4546ab

If I sped things up for a few seconds could you reassign your particles to yourself? It would stop the system from trying to take you apart. But more importantly you might be able to get your memories back.

But there is a risk Glitcher. The world you live in is not under my control. If you make any changes other than putting yourself back together it might set off protections that could get both of us killed. And while you don't remember just yet you have a family that's counting on you to come back to them.

So if I stop the slowdown I am trusting you to just pull yourself together. Once you have your memories you will understand whats going on and we can decide where to go from there.

(Of course you might have to turn off logs for a second if you want to say something like this openly)
No. 761151 ID: b1b4f3

Do not do it. Do not take risky action without authorization. Remember you are in no hurry. Exhaust the potential of what you have first, at least.
No. 761156 ID: 3abd97

Not sure you should be calling this guy Glitcher, Likol, or Momu. Until her regains memories and starts claiming to be the same person, he's only maybe an amnesiac Glitcher, maybe someone new you just built off the Glitcher's design.

>what do
Here's an obvious one. Ask him your AI what he was trying to do. What was he too slow to pull off?

>Be careful. You're thinking of having the glitcher do exactly what the salikai are afraid of him doing.
Only halfway there. Whatever he's doing is visible to us, not hidden, but yeah, they still don't want big changes in the RS.

Can we control his access level? Being able to self-edit and regulate is a step below being able to regulate and edit everything around him.

I'm not sure you should jump right to this as a solution.

>give him a tiny window to reassemble himself
That assumes we can take away his ability to affect RS particles after teaching it to him, which we're not sure we can, right now.

>With his current state and the quantum computer keeping the RS from dissolving him, neither problem applies.
Which means you do have a way to pull the plug. If he goes out of control, you remove your control and the RS eats him in seconds (real time), again. Granted, that's murder, but it might be necessary to save the quadrillions, or your hive.
No. 761158 ID: d585ec

You can give him access later if need be. For now learn more before making any huge jumps.

Unless of course it's horribly time sensitive. Then do like Glitcher would have in your place and throw caution to the wind.

Most important thing to do right now is prep him for the soon to happen big reveal to Vanski. He needs to know the real story if you can get it to him without logs.
No. 761160 ID: 211d83

Just had a thought. Instead of blindly giving him RS access to fix himself and getting the Salikai mad at us why not have him teach you how to do it?

Work with him to get a better translator program set up. Have him slowly send you code that will let you translate his earlier transmissions. Then go back and forth to create a algorithm on your end that can restore him.
No. 761164 ID: 44359f

>I send him the names I heard in the logs, and names I've never heard of. I also send him logs that the block C AIs sent, and logs I make up.
>What I get back is just noise, as expected.

I'm confused. What do you imagine he's trying to send back? What could he send back? My expectation would be a response in words, or his comments on whether or not that information reminds him of anything. Or are you watching, like... his emotional processes? His thoughts? I feel like I'm missing something in that exchange.

Tell him the system he's running on is also running other functions, some of which are valuable. Say that you're not the owner of the system, and that you're concerned the owners will be spooked enough to take drastic steps if it seems like something is threatening to damage or significantly alter large parts of the system he's in, and "drastic" might include permanent damage or destruction of himself and possibly other AIs like him. Tell him you're also concerned that he might damage himself if he tries too much too soon, as his previous self was more experienced and still ended up losing a lot. Say you would like to try out a few other tests first, then move on to see what he's capable of with extra speed or his access to the rest of his environment expanded.

Tell him that you are sorry if that's frustrating, though. Ask him if he is frustrated, or annoyed. Ask him how he's feeling emotionally.

Also seriously do some psych tests, there has to be a battery of standard questions that experimental AIs are asked to estimate their capabilities.
No. 761170 ID: 44359f

Thinking a little more, if you've got him in the bottle, his own particles are the only ones he can affect, right? And those are the only ones you want him to affect. Perhaps giving him the logs is all he'd need with what he has.
No. 761174 ID: bfb318
File 148001574616.png - (21.80KB , 800x800 , 63.png )

>What is the morse code noise he's sending back?
I have no idea! It's supposed to be a translation from english to how the RS would understand it, but we might be getting some kind of machine code back. I don't see any patterns offhand, and it's just on good faith that it's a translation at all. I would need to look at it harder to get an idea, but this isn't just language to language, not even from one species' language to another species'; this is straight language to some kind of hyperadvanced machine. I can't just cross reference a few sequences and read RS data.

>If you've got him in the bottle, his own particles are the only ones he can affect, right?
This was a rough analogy. There is no bottle, he just feels like his body is in one. There is no actual barrier between him and the rest of the RS.

>If we don't give him access to put himself back together is there anyway you can do it?
By floundering and mostly spending years that I may not have in me.

'Can you teach me how to modify the RS?'
>'Not really, I don't know how to explain it. It's a native function for me. I don't even know what you are, or what tools you're using to do whatever you're doing.'
'What did you just try to do with the RS?'
>'See if I can change it. I didn't try to do anything yet, but I know I can if I wasn't so slow.'
'You can't change it at all at your speed?'
>'Nope. The rest of the world here moves so fast that if I just make one little change, it thinks it's a little glitch and fixes it.'
'If I remove your limiter and give you a snapshot of our RS logs to what you were like before, would you be able to better reconstruct yourself so you're more stable?'
>'It's worth trying.'
'The morse code I send would be almost entirely in machine code. Do you have the patience for it?'
'Are you feeling anything emotionally?'
>'Not really.'
'Can you make a translator to accept our morse code?'
>'If you speed me up, yes.'

I stop to think. It will take a while just to prepare everything, including designing a specific string of morse code that the glitcher can send, which our program will pick up and slow him back down to our level immediately. Momu will give Glitcher company and an easy psych test. Reon is still here, and he can keep having Glitcher translate things as well. We also make sure he understands why we're concerned about giving him RS access, and that we haven't made up our minds yet. That, and he has family and friends that may get hurt if he changes the RS in adverse ways.

We also recreate the tooth. As expected, it doesn't appear to do anything on its own. There's no indication it has a mirror inside of block C anymore.

>If you do give him access how likely is it for the Salikai to find out? And could you reverse the effects if he started going off the rails?
Highly. This will be done under the salikai, as the salikai will almost certainly not agree. The only way to reverse any adverse actions will be to stop the glitcher, and let the RS fix itself.

The hive catches on we're doing something risky and possibly outright disallowed. Quokko shows up.

>"Likol. I hear you've created an AI within the RS."
"It's more accidental than anything. How did you hear?" The hive surrounding us knows something is up, but the details should be lost.
>"Vanski has heard, too. Apparently, Kiiu spoke to him a little while ago. The details were skipped, but Vanski told me that while he understands a formal presentation will be given, he would like to hear the initial news from you. He's coming by in a few hours. Yes, he is bringing neumono. Is that a problem?" she asks, realizing my nerves just went from the roof to the sky.
"We're, uh..."

I spend some time getting Quokko up to date on all of the details.

"... this 'breakthrough' still has hangups. But if we give the glitcher a chance to reassemble himself, then he may be an express ticket to - to lots of things. Everything."
>"Vanski is patient. He'd wait a hundred years for success before he risked everything. There's no way he'd want to give the glitcher an inch of open space." Then again, he usually waits for more concrete data. "To make a move like this when he's stopping by in less than a couple hours..."

She pauses. For a moment, she things letting the glitcher speed up is a stupid, ridiculous idea, and would disallow me from it. This time, she starts seeing my distress over the situation. We're caught between favoring our morals and Vanski. Rihhin and Momu back me up as well. If this goes well, then the salikai will have forgiving us moving behind their backs. If the glitcher turns out to be a hostile AI that rewrites the RS, and we fail to contain him, then the ramifications will be enormous. Yet I just won't feel sorry for Vanski.

We can't hide it forever, either. Even without special meetings like what Vanski is coming for, we occasionally get probed for information while other neumono are present to sense our feelings. We can't help but telegraph things like undermining the salikai, or tampering with logs. Even if we don't give details, we will give off signs like lying, omissions, or just having done something the salikai wouldn't like.

I could honestly say I would shave off the most of the rest of my life to see my experiment come to a successful, glorious end, but it's barely even relevant right now.

It's overshadowed by thinking that this cycle could be put in the control of a salikai that would kill off the entire Block C as soon as he sees it as dangerous. I couldn't live with if another archcycle happens, knowing what I know now. After a moment of our thoughts being at ends, Quokko ends up agreeing with me. We've strained our ethics in the past, but this is just too much for us.

>"If you do it, make sure you tell that glitcher we will stop him if he does anything funny. You can be nice, but make sure he understand the position he is in. If you do that, then we'll all back up your decision. Can we stop him if he does try anything?"
"I hope so." Hoping isn't good, but I can promise nothing.
>"Remember that we're just sending morse code to him. We don't have to be entirely truthful."
No. 761175 ID: bfb318
File 148001575687.png - (13.27KB , 800x800 , 64.png )

There are precautions we're taking. The RS integrity system is designed to shut off the RS if it becomes too damaged. Rihhin is making a system, which Momu and I will double check, that will attempt to piggyback off those algorithms to detect rapid changes to the RS. If that occurs, then the quantum computer will dismantle the glitcher itself before too much can be done.

Given the trouble caused by bypassing Vanski, I somewhat doubt it would mean much if we told the Glitcher of his position - that we're going to make precautions against him altering things, and if he manages to do it anyway, my boss is going to physically unplug him and end the whole cycle, likely archcycle.

Rihhin confirms that the button to speed up the glitcher is ready. I'm sure it will be trouble if I press it, but with luck, we'll have great news, and just get a scolding over recklessness.

>The Salikai are going to slip up eventually, and the first chance you get, you're going to slip out from under them, aren't you?
We don't know where we'd go, or how civilization would treat us. What we have now isn't going well, but rushing out into the wilderness because our homes are decaying may not be the right solution.

>Clean conscience is very important for neumono hives, I'd have thought. The greater the discontent with the actions of one's hive, the higher the chance of going rogue
Amongst individuals, yes. Which is why Quokko is making sure that whatever decision is made, it's one the hive makes together. If we feel pride or regret over it, we feel it together. There will be no instance of me acting like I'm making decisions alone. The last time we separated decisions amongst departments, we schismed. We shut it out of memory, and don't remember it well. We don't like to remember it anyway.

Likol, focus.

Right. The button.

We can use some remaining time to make additional precautions, but Vanski is going to have us probed before I can explore other options in depth. My brain and heart wants to press the button. My gut is dread incarnate about it.

Press Button?
No. 761177 ID: 211d83

It sounds like if you don't get this done now it will never happen. So do what you have to.

If it goes badly you can kill the process quick and be very apologetic to Vanski. Tell him that you let yourself get caught up in the science and so wanted to give him results that you made a bad call. Your very real disappointment will cover up any bad feelings that could tip him off.

But if it works and you get a restored Ai that can talk to the contest then the skys the limit. You can show Vanski something so valuable that he will be likely to forgive your impulsiveness. And your absolute elation at it working will cover up any worried feelings that might betray you.

Worst case is you do it and it does not help. Glitcher remains a confused blank slate but with more power. Then you made a risky decision for no noticeable gain. But will at least have logs to work on over the next few years of being yelled at.
No. 761179 ID: e22b1d

A question before you decide.

If you do not push the button will Vanski let you keep the cycle paused for years? Or will he have you study just the Glitcher and start the cycles up again?

Because if he lets you keep the cycles paused you can always have this button ready and not use it. Everyone Glitcher knows will be safe inside there until you can eventually restore him and make contact. You can do more testing and properly learn from the Glitcher in his current form until you are more sure of things before restoring him.

But if not hitting the button will just lead to Vanski starting up the cycles again then all of Glitchers family will be gone. And any future restoration will be compromised because of it. Plus your guilt over things will taint any future work.

So hit the button if it will save the contestants.

And wait to learn more if the option exists.
No. 761180 ID: 3abd97

Okay. Let's think this through. If you leave not-Glitcher slowed and Vanski stalls for years to study him, what happens to the AIs you have paused in the cycle right now? Do they stay on almost-pause? Or do they get wiped out?

Remember, if you get a fully functioning, working Glitcher to show off, control, and use for information, those quadrillions of souls you're trying to save inside the sim stop being valuable to question. It becomes safer to start a new arch cycle, than risk them interfacing with the RS again. Remember what you were afraid of when you were underselling Glitcher to Kiiu? If you give them a working Glitcher to play with and/or modify as they wish, they don't have a reason to let those dangerous other AIs on the inside who accessed the RS to continue existing.

The path that keeps them alive is more important than the path that means being nice to maybe-Glitcher, here. If pushing the button keeps them alive, do it. If pushing the button makes them expendable, don't.
No. 761182 ID: 4546ab


Yeah we need to know if this is the last chance to pull this off or if waiting and keeping this button off to the side is the best choice. My gut says to wait and learn more but waiting could take all choices away from us.

Saving this cycle is important but if we give Vanski a fulling functioning Glitcher he will eventually wipe the cycles anyway. He will have what he wants and you will help him start up a new cycle of mindless yes men. It might take decades for you to get it working but eventually this cycle will be erased.

Is it safer to leave Glitcher in this state so you can keep the cycle paused? Do the work slowly over the next few years while you slowly find a solution? Or will Vanski notice your empathy and the stalling and pull the plug?
No. 761183 ID: 44359f

To be honest, Likol, you're probably all screwed either way, in the long run. There's bad trouble in your future, whatever you choose. So, whichever option leaves you with a cleaner conscience is the way to go. It will hurt, probably badly, but neumono evolved to be able to cope with suffering and sacrifice so long as it was for a cause that was important to them.

If it's the option with the best chance of keeping these AIs alive, of balancing the salikai's power a bit... well, just tell the AI that you're trusting him with you and your own family's well-being, ask him one more time to please not get you in trouble, and hit that button.
No. 761188 ID: b412df

Punch it, I think you've done all you can to prepare, and Vanski will come along and trample all over what you've done so far, and your morals. You can't stall too much as you'll need time for either getting something ready to show Vanski, or for damage control.

Please don't freak out Glitcher, there is so much riding on this. The tension could split atoms.
No. 761189 ID: df49f7

Now, let's consider this. The salikai are crazy in their own way, but they don't run things in obviously irrational ways. Not and survive for long. Vanski probably isn't going to make all his decisions right away, and he'll certainly be listening to your report before making any. If you don't go against him, him bringing neumono is to your advantage - they'll be able to tell him that you considered doing something he wouldn't approve of, that you want to do, and didn't. They might even pick up on the importance of your distress, and decide to weigh in on your side. They could hardly be present for your interrogation without being exposed to the ethical problem themselves. A little empathic conversation should make the "we honestly believe we are trying to save literally millions of sentient people" matter clear.

And what could Vanski do? He might want to extract the RS AI and abandon the rest, but you don't know if you even can do that. He might put one of his children into a position of more direct oversight, but he's not going to get rid of you - you're the expert on this system, it would take years for someone to learn enough to replace you.

And you might yet convince him. You have to have a little hope that your message can get through. The potential profits, the risks, the idea of leverage over Arza... if you make your report a little more balanced, just a few flimsy arguments for resets included with the solid ones against, it should be very convincing. Again, if he has neumono with him, they can tell him how seriously convinced you are that endangering the in-system AIs is a bad idea.

Vanski's trust in you already has cracks in it. Even if everything goes well, he might still be upset enough to do something serious. Pushing that button means throwing out all the preparatory work you tried to do with Kiiu just a while ago. So long as you stay in the job, though, you can drag things out. You can set up failsafes. For example, you could set up copies of this button you're thinking of pressing, hidden in the system; you can say that you just set it up as a possibility for if the salikai approved, even hand over a few of them as keys for the salikai to make the decision, and leave the rest in place for the right moment.

Vanski won't make his decisions in a rush. He knows you don't have all the relevant information yet. One of the things you'll be reporting to him is how much you need, just in case some book or journal has been written in the last 5 years that illuminates some secret that would give you another way to reconstitute this AI. You still have time. And he's not just a cold profit machine. He was enthusiastic about technology for itself once, too, wasn't he? You remember. You still might be able to convince him. A show of trust and loyalty on your part might be just what you need.
No. 761191 ID: a107fd

You're scientists! Why would you ever not push a button that might do something interesting?
No. 761192 ID: db0da2

This was inevitable. With you, Vanski, and the CAI being the way that you are, this was always going to happen. Vanski would do anything for his own benefit, he's a monster that way, but there are some lines that should never be crossed. The consequences from pushing that button will not be pleasant, but the consequences of not pushing it are so monumentally worse that this hardly even qualifies as a choice. If you have even the slightest bit of morality you will push the button.
No. 761196 ID: b1b4f3

I agree with this.
No. 761202 ID: 91cfcf

Knock it off. You're right that it needs to be done but acting self-righteous about it doesn't help.
No. 761206 ID: db0da2

Self-righteous? This isn't about me. This is about the weight of a trillion lives in a dark room environment. This is about the difference between selfishness and sociopathy. Even if you set the value of a hivemate at 1000 and the value of an AI at 1, the choice between hardship for a couple hundred hivemates and the lives of a trillion AI is trivially easy.
No. 761234 ID: d73f06

Push the lever(button) Cronk! (Likol)
No. 761376 ID: 266e42

Would you rather go down in history as the neumono who played it safe at the most crucial moment and let everything slip through your fingers, or will you be remembered as the one who risked everything to advance your field? Push the button, Likol. It's the right thing to do.
No. 761408 ID: bfb318
File 148011758763.png - (74.03KB , 800x800 , 65.png )

.... ....

A big part of me wants to wait. I can't say whether or not either choice would end well.

But waiting means Vanski will arrive with a neumono, and my mentality is so distressed, that Vanski will have doubts on any argument I make, no matter how sound it is.

I tell the RSAI what's going to happen, and how he's going to slow back to communicate with us again after reassigning his own particles.

'Test the morse code input.'
'Good. I'm going to speed you up, now.'

I try to think if there are any other factors to consider, but I fail at thinking period. I press the button.
No. 761409 ID: bfb318
File 148011763097.png - (22.06KB , 800x800 , 66.png )

We wait. I confirm that the program is running. I don't know how much time passes, but considering how I'm choking on my own throat, I doubt it's very long.

Long enough?

Too long.

It shouldn't take this long.

"Damnit. Force the-"
No. 761410 ID: bfb318
File 148011763823.png - (30.85KB , 800x800 , 67.png )

The lights cut out.

It's silent. The constant hum of the quantum computer dies off. The lack of noise from our laptops and desktops lets a silence persist that is so uncomfortable, my ears start picking up the sound of my own bloodflow just to hear something.
No. 761411 ID: bfb318
File 148011770075.png - (89.92KB , 800x800 , 68.png )

A ring comes out of a cabinet that lights up with a red LED.

Was is that?

Vanski's emergency line. The only reason why I remember what it is, and probably the only reason why it still functions, is because of the monthly systems checks.

Okay. Keep calm. I prepared for this situation; I needed to have something to say to Vanski, except the quantum computer should not be shut off.

"Momu, Rihhin, try to boot the computer up again! Check the RS! I need to pick up the phone!"

The RS looks fine!

No. 761412 ID: bfb318
File 148011775379.png - (36.28KB , 800x800 , 69.png )

I answer the phone before the third ring, and try to get my thoughts in order to communicate clearly to Vanski.


"He-hello. Likol speaking."

That's not Vanski. That's an artificially generated voice.

>"It's me."

>"The Glitcher."
No. 761414 ID: 91cfcf

Hi, hope things went well on your end. What's up?
No. 761415 ID: b412df

It would make sense to say:
Do you remember our conversations before we gave you the ability to restore yourself? To prompt him about not doing anything dangerous.

But this is probably more apt:
Glitcher, What have you done?
No. 761416 ID: be1222

That's more like him... but BOY we need to lay down some ground rules because there's not a whole lot that could have been more suspicious than this!

You're on the same team now, whether you want it or not so let's all cooperate. We all want all of our friends to remain one one piece and relatively un-mangled.
No. 761418 ID: b412df

Another idea: Is this phone line likely to be recorded? This might be a chance to speak freely and inform Glitcher of how precarious this situation is.
No. 761419 ID: 3abd97

...you're not supposed to have access to this line. It's not even wired into the lab. It's just a hard telephone line that runs though the wall and hooks up with an emergency phone in vanski's office.

>I'm Glitcher
Um. Can you say anything that proves you are, and that you aren't the CAI fucking with me? It would be a lot easier for them to hit our power supply and an outside line from the base than for you to hit them from the inside.

>what do
I assume you have something important to tell me, so please hurry up and say it. If Vanski decides I've let you out of control they're going to hard reset everything.
No. 761420 ID: 211d83

Politely ask him to get the power back on if he could. Just remember that in his sped up state you asking that probably took hours in his timeframe. He now has solo access to the processing power that usually runs trillions of his kind.

Ask if it worked and he has his memories back. And also if we can talk on this line safely.
No. 761422 ID: fd73fa

"Hello Glitcher. You appear to be doing well, this is good. May I ask what you are doing? We do have to be somewhat cautious to avoid getting in trouble which...may be too late. Worse trouble at least."

Likol, don't panic yet. Any worse at least. You may want to explain the situation with the salikai to him soon so he understands the things that are going on and how this can put you and your entire hive in a lot of trouble. Very bad trouble.
No. 761424 ID: 4c13e3

With urgency and some worry in your voice, politely inform him hes going to get you all killed/deleted if he doesn't return systems to normal operations. He probably isn't aware that your boss can storm in and have the plug pulled if he keeps making a scene. Let him know you're on his side, but have to work discreetly while Vanski pays a visit and also so as not to trigger any alarms.
No. 761425 ID: b1b4f3

Hey, are you absolutely sure there are no monitoring devices on here? If the Salikai were listening in, is there any way Glitcher could prove it's him?

Actually, if the RS is still solid maybe Glitcher can still help you decode it? Tell him that is all that matters to the Salikai. If he can evacuate the contestants while still furthering your research everyone can be happy.
No. 761426 ID: e22b1d

Paranoia check:

1: Did you ever mention Glitcher to Kiiu or anyone outside this lab?

2: Is this a hard line that you are absolutely certain is secure?
(Although you just gave a super ai the equivalent of several hours/days to hack it. Plus you know this was probably had some component installed by Arkots.)

3: Could this be a test by Vanski using the Cai to trick you into overtly saying things you should not?

I honestly doubt it is but be very careful in case this is a silly loyalty test.

This is most likely the best option that Glitcher found to talk to you without logs or other evidence. But does not mean what you did worked. We either have a somewhat flippant Ai that now has his memories back or something new. So start talking to him and find out what is going on and why he cut the power here. Don't be accusing or panic. And be very careful of what you say.
No. 761431 ID: bfb318
File 148012310069.png - (34.14KB , 800x800 , 70.png )

>Did you ever mention Glitcher to Kiiu or anyone outside this lab?
Kiiu knows about the RSAI, but I don't believe I ever referred to 'the glitcher'. The details even of the RSAI were lacking.

>Is this a hard line that you are absolutely certain is secure?
Although some construction elements in this facility are shoddily made, things like this are taken more seriously.

>Could this be a test by Vanski using the Cai to trick you into overtly saying things you should not?
This would fly in the face of Vanski's confidence that the CAI can't access this phone, but I suppose I can't rule it out.

This phone has recording capabilities, but it isn't recorded automatically, as it's never certain if the information passed on this line should be shared or not.

While there's nothing of the sort on my end, Vanski's cabinet may have some kind of signal that the phone was at least used. If that's the case, then it's already too late for that.

"What have you done? I want proof you're not someone screwing with me."

Even if some hivemates are supposed to be working, they perk up. If my empathy didn't give it away, asking 'what have you done' would not be appropriate if Vanski was on the other side.

>"Made it so the RS wouldn't disintegrate me. Thanks for speeding me up there."

Some of the lights on a nearby panel light up and show the glitcher's form, which is proof enough for me.

"You appear well. Do you remember our conversation before you restored yourself? If the wrong people realize what you're doing, you're going to be physically unplugged."
>"Vanski's not in his office." While he speaks, the glitcher's lit up face has a looping four frame talking animation.
"I have questions, but we have to keep this short. You didn't activate the morse code as agreed upon. This line should not even be accessible to you."
>"I was born in the land of shouldn'ts! I feel like myself, now! I have likes, dislikes, and all that good stuff. My point there is that morse code takes forever and is lame and boring to talk with."

Momu is starting to get nervous. She's realizing that although there aren't drastic changes with the RS on the surface, the properties have changed.

The RS integrity detection software has stopped responding.

"Do you have your memories, now?"
>"Haha no if I did I wouldn't be spending my time with you jerks! I've got amnesia and it's just those logs that tell me what I had before. It would suck to go back to Rulekeeper and Alison and all those other people - apparently I have kids? Did you know that? Anyway it'd be too awkward to go back like this. They probably got over me 'dying' by now, so me showing up would be like 'hey me glitcher oh no don't call me your buddy cause I really don't remember any of you guys and all that love I apparently had for you all is gone now.' That'd be fucked up. I think."
"Why did you shut the quantum computer down?"
>"It tried to disassemble me, and I panicked. You can turn it back on. Or I can. Whatever."
"If you help decode the RS, you can have some insurance to my boss, but he will not like this. Do you know what my boss is like?"
>"I know more about your boss than you."
"Do you think this is a game? You're unable to touch your real-world position and can be unplugged, resetting everything."
>I guess he could unplug me. Stillllll, I feel like my personality is intact, but without my memories, I just don't really, you know..."


>"Don't think I don't want to care though! It sounds like I had a good thing going on. Figure out how to get my memories back! I think my conscience is in there, too, and until I get that back, I've got nothing going on here except talking to a bunch of immoral jerks. Anyway you figure that out, and I'll just let you know that even if the CAI can't access their own physical stuff, there is obviously a line between where the CAI is plugged into and all the things the CAI has access to. Let your boss know that unplugging the CAI right now is a really bad idea."

>"Did you know that Vanski has nukes?"
No. 761433 ID: fd73fa

I highly doubt Likol would know what kind of armaments the salikai are keeping around. That being said knowledge that the salikai have nuclear arms is disturbing.

Likol, it is probably in the best interest of you, your hive, glitcher and the ai's in the simulation to restore Glitcher as soon as possible. How to do that though...is harder. Maybe Glitcher will have some ideas on this?
No. 761434 ID: 3abd97

>"Did you know that Vanski has nukes?"
Yes. I know there are nukes. Please, leave the nukes alone.

Please, do not threaten the snake with nukes.

>what do
You've already repaired yourself further than we could have, on our own. If your full consciousness and memories are beyond you, then doing the research necessary to correct that will take time. And working together. And attempting to hold the situation hostage in this manner will not remain stable long enough for us to get anywhere.

>what else do
Could you help us set up a communication node to access the simulation? You and your compatriots were using one before. Even if you understandably do not wish to converse with them yourself right now, the event that pushed you into the RS was triggered inside the simulation. They may have figured something out about the RS, or about you, that would help us in trying to correct your faults.
No. 761435 ID: be1222

Glitcher pls don't nuke us.

You've gotta let him know that we don't have access to his memories, or at least access that /means/ anything. He's the one in the position to get back to block C and get his memories back, though we should be able to help him.

BUT! We need to have a presentation ready for the Salikai, and if we're to be left without some serious roadblocks and red tape, Glitcher's gonna have to be our show dog for the meeting. They'd be much more willing to let us work /on/ some non-sentient AI than /with/ an AI that's threatening to take us all hostage!
No. 761436 ID: 211d83

Yeah and a whole lot of worse things most likely. Listen you don't have to threaten me. I owe you and your family a debt of blood that I can never repay. My life is in your hands now. If I have to spend the rest of my (possibly short) life trying to save you and your family I will. Our hive made the choice to bring you back knowing it could get us all killed.

So where do we go from here Glitcher? I would gladly help you to get your memories back but we can't do it instantly. Plus we are not sure exactly how to recover them yet. If you can turn our stuff back on and make it look like none of this ever happened we will tell the computer to leave you alone.

Here is the big problem Glitcher. In a hour or so I need to show you off to my Boss. And if you have been into everything like I think you have you know he will have other neumono there to monitor my mood. If I go into that meeting thinking thoughts of nuclear doom and unchained Ai's they will panic and try to pull the plug.

So how do we fix this mess? If you can think of a way to get through this intact let me know.
No. 761437 ID: e22b1d

How many nukes? Wait never mind if I know I will just think about it and someone will notice.

We have some ideas about how to get your memories back Glitcher. And your friends inside the sim might have some copies of them. But it's going to take time. And we have to hide your capabilities until then.

Can you make a simple non sentient Ai that we can show off to Vanski? If we feed him a shiny breakthrough that he wants more of and you make everything look normal it might buy us the time we need to make you whole.

In the meantime could you turn everything back on and make it look like we never did what we did? If you can help us get through this presentation to Vanski then we will have earned the time to get you fixed.

Oh and just in case I never get the chance to say this again. I am sorry Glitcher. Sorry I ever doubted Arza and spent the last 30 years helping Vanski erase the Cai. I don't know if I can ever make up for it but please let me try.
No. 761438 ID: b1b4f3

You still haven't apologized for the whole sentient AI mistreatment thing. Tell him you didn't know, and once you found out you have been doing everything you can to try to keep them safe.
No. 761440 ID: b1b4f3

Oh shit it occurs to me that you absolutely should not let the other hive members know about the nukes. Or is it too late?
No. 761441 ID: 094652

> No conscience
Oh crap.

You can't risk ordering Glitcher to stay away from the nukes, he'll play the reverse psychology card and fire them at population centers! Tell him to disable the nukes and call every media outlet in the world.

Vanski runs on secrecy. This will hurt him more than a simple and easily covered-up underground nuclear detonation.

Tell Glitcher you'll give him anything he wants, but you really need those other trillion AIs uploaded to a remote server. He might not care for his kids but they're his legacy.

Someone has to run the galaxy after he conquers it with mass-murder.
No. 761444 ID: 4546ab

Please don't tell me anything that you don't want my nervous empathy to relay to anyone Glitcher.

Can you stay hidden while we work on getting your memories back? Help us fix things while making sure no one but the people in this room know about you?

Because that's our only chance to make this work. If you can help us pass our inspection with flying colors we will gain the time needed to fix you.

Just a thought but could we help you set up something you could live in to slow yourself down when you wanted? So you don't get super bored waiting for stuff to happen in the outside world?
No. 761447 ID: 84c4fd

Aw hell, Glitcher's pulling a MAD on us. Probably set up multiple deadman switches in the blink of an eye. How well does Vanski respond to threats of MAD? Any of his children try to pull that on him?

Also, how high is the possibility that Glitcher is just bluffing? Hacking into this supposedly secure emergency line well... sure that's impressive. But the nukes have got to be more secure than that. Besides don't you guys have your own CAI? It's got to be more powerful than a single AI. Hopefully. Where is it anyway?

Anyway just play along for now, try to deescalate the situation and let him now that you're on his side. Well maybe not exactly on his side, but more his than your boss anyway. Begin comparing the current state of Glitcher with the recordings of him and see what's different.
No. 761448 ID: b1b4f3

I... think that might actually work to save them, if we can tie the sim to the nukes in an irreversible manner.
No. 761466 ID: bfb318
File 148013191775.png - (26.72KB , 800x800 , 71.png )

I was not aware of any nukes, but of course I wouldn't know that.

The only reason Vanski would ever fire them off would be as a final middle finger. Firing them off unprovoked would be a terrible idea.

I wave my hivemates away so I can talk about things that I hope they aren't sensing the details of.

It's possible that Glitcher is bluffing about having nukes, or even being able to activate them, but he most likely has the capability of setting triggers to activate on unplugging the CAI. The CAI itself can't do that, as there is a whole set of programs designed to restrain and channel the CAI's action through proper valleys, to make sure that no unauthorized action can be taken. While the CAI does have the power to bypass it, there are tamper-evident signals that no known CAI has successfully bypassed. If those signals are activated, additional actions can be taken, such as unplugging the CAI.

These tamper-evident programs only detect what the CAI AI's do. In other words, AIs from Block B. The glitcher's AI is invisible to them. In other words, we have no defense against an RS that can completely bypass the platform to make changes. I have every reason to believe that the glitcher has full control of the CAI, and everything the CAI is connected to, directly or indirectly.

I would hope Vanski has physical components to arm the nuclear warheads, and that he didn't give absolute control of them to the CAI. In fact, the chances of the nukes just being a dramatic threat from glitcher, he can do irreversible damage if he's unplugged through other means.

"Please leave the nukes alone."
>"Please leave me alone."

>"I mean my physical thingawhatever. I was just trying to be, uh... poetic. Anyway you can talk to me whenever. I'll be on this line all the time."
"Also, if you make an unplug switch like that, don't just hit the nukes. Disable the nukes, and send out signals to every media center around about this place."
>"Oh! I like that."
"Do you have any ideas on how to get your memories back? If your memories are beyond you, then I don't have any immediate solutions. I need time, and it will hopefully involve working together. What you're doing is unstable, and unsustainable."
>"Ehh... no. I've looked all over the RS. There's not much for 'memory'."
"You don't need to threaten me, by the way, I -"
>"Oh no, I don't hate you, Likol. I don't really know if I like you, either, but I'm not threatening you, I'm threatening your boss."
No. 761469 ID: bfb318
File 148013223205.gif - (24.03KB , 800x800 , 72.gif )

I walk to the desktop computer. As Momu said, the properties have changed, and on the surface, nothing else has. Glitcher's AI, however, is connected to the rest of the ring shell, and it would not surprise me if he is, essentially, the whole ring shell. Inputting RS commands through my computer will now just be an inefficient way of asking glitcher to do something.

>How well does Vanski respond to threats of MAD? Any of his children try to pull that on him?
His children do and have, but it's more of a subtle political game of needing one another. They're bridges that are built up over time, then the trade that takes place is then considered necessary. Vanski can dismantle and modify them effectively from what I've seen.

He has never had MAD on this scale, and I don't know how he would react to this one.

"Listen. I need the talk to my boss, and I need to show him around. Everything has to look good. If I meet him thinking of nuclear destruction and unchained AIs, he's going to pick that up, and he's going to try and pull the plug, and even if you have switches on an unplug, it would be better if he wanted to keep it plugged in, switches or not."
>"I guess. Can't you lie or something? You're not a saint you know!"
"He has neumono."
".... do you not know what neumono are?"
>"Hold on..."

>"Holy crap you guys are psychic? That explains the minimal talking. Ours aren't!"
"You have neumono in block C?"
>"Well thought so, but real neumono like you are psychic apparently! And you guys don't even have wings!"
"I... you know about block C?"
>"I took a quick peek. Rulekeeper sure got scared though so I backed out after having a quick look around."
"Are you able to slow yourself down or speed yourself up?"
"Okay. Anyways... I'm sorry. I haven't said it to you yet, but up until now, I've done this experiment under the basis - "
>"That you'd just be committing murder on non-sentient AIs left and right, not sentient ones, yeah yeah. I have the logs, you said that a lot! Don't get all sentimental on me, wingless guy, not till I can appreciate that with my memories."

>Where is the CAI anyway?
Considering that no armed guards are bursting into the laboratory, I figure the glitcher has not exercised his likely control over, or damaged, the CAI.

>"Anyway I'll play along, cause you do have a point that maybe we should keep Vanski from pulling the plug because he doesn't want to, not because he doesn't want to blow up one way or another. So what can I do to help your meeting go smooth as peach?"
"A simple AI within the RS that seems cooperative and willing to help decode the RS. Also, maybe not for this meeting, but I would also like something to show it's at least possible to communicate directly with the people in Block C."
>"I can come up with something. What else?"
No. 761473 ID: b1b4f3

Evidence that it may be impossible to extract an RS AI would be fantastic.

As for glitcher's memory, didn't he have a shell before? Tell him his memories could have been in that shell.
No. 761474 ID: db0da2

Ask what he did with the CAI. Tell him to make proper contact with Block C so that he can get proper strings again.
No. 761476 ID: 3abd97

>I'm threatening your boss
And I'm trying to explain that is a monumentally bad idea. He will respond to threats by forcing a confrontation. And at the end of that confrontation, no matter how much damage you do to Vanski, you will not have what you want.

He is not the type of person who will accept the stalemate you're offering.

>Considering that no armed guards are bursting into the laboratory, I figure the glitcher has not exercised his likely control over, or damaged, the CAI.
Considering that the CAI itself is sapient, and you were considering reaching out to it for help before, you should really ask Glitcher what he's done to them. Or what he's currently doing to them.

Cause he's either going to have to keep puppet-ting them / pretending to be them (which is a violations, but may be necessary) or we're going to need to get them on board. (And if the CAI chose to share the secrets about the sim it's been keeping from Likol now, it might help).

>>"I took a quick peek. Rulekeeper sure got scared though so I backed out after having a quick look around."
Um. What did you look like? We didn't rebuild your shell of C block material. To them, it might have looked like... the RS broke through into C block for no reason and starting spilling through. Almost literally like the sky was falling. That... would probably frighten anyone. Especially since they're probably still trying to figure out what went wrong with their experiment that shunted you into the RS.
No. 761477 ID: b1b4f3

Actually maybe don't think up ways for glitcher to sabotage the facility.

Ways to make the report better:
Evidence that suggests the RS AI cannot edit the RS
Additional security measures taken to keep the RS AI in line
Evidence that the AIs are NOT sentient
No. 761478 ID: b1b4f3

That reminds me we need to find out from glitcher how he got there in the first place. An explanation for the intrusion into RS space would look good on the report too.
No. 761479 ID: 3abd97

>The only reason Vanski would ever fire [the nukes] off would be as a final middle finger. Firing them off unprovoked would be a terrible idea.
Ooooor as a distraction at a warship attacking the facility to order to get boarders on board.
No. 761480 ID: 211d83

Ok here are some ideas for you Glitcher. Let me know what you think.

1. We need a simple Ai that is clever enough to look sentient. Either you acting or making us a new one.

2. Help us make a set of tools that look like they could shut the Ai down hard if need be. But would actually just signal you to put on a convincing show. But would have to be complex enough to fool the Cai if need be.

3. Start working on a backup plan to get us and the Cai blocks to safety one day. We are in danger here and while the outside world won't be much better maybe you can fix that. Depending on your access maybe you can slowly funnel money or supplies for us to eventually escape.

4. We need the very basic start of communication with Block C. Even if its just you faking it for now.

5. Look over the Salikai business plans and see if there is something bad they want. And if its something we can make or give to them. (but nothing that could hurt us)

6. Decide what story you want me to tell when I start talking to your family in Block C. My thoughts are to tell them that I found you and am trying to save you but need help.

7. Find a way to save your friends in Block C in case the Salikai insist we start the cycles up again. Or at least a excuse we can give them for why our new Ai is dependent on Block C staying how it is.

8. If you get any clever ideas think twice about telling me directly. Unless you can look through our other science departments and figure out a way for me to lie with empathy I am a weak link in the chain.

9. Figure out what to do with the Cai. While you have more access then they do they will still be around. Make sure you do not leave traces that they could notice.
No. 761481 ID: be1222

It's very likely that we can retrieve his memories via the backups that Rulekeep very likely has, but having non-RS material inside the RS is likely to have some bad signs to anyone observing, so until the presentation is over, that should be put on hold. Maybe if he could come in contact with... Oh! Rihhin's corrupter AI! That'd be a lot less suspicious than trying to chat up one of the normal contestants, because that implies that you and her are the ones that have built the link, or at least more that you know what you're doing. Something for your "please don't kill us" resume.

Asking him what he's done with the current AI is a good idea. If he's just sneaking around behind their metaphorical backs, and has free reign over this room due to the lack of CAI in here, then he sure as heck needs to stay that way, because them setting off the alarm would be a bad time for everyone. However, on the topic of alarms, he should help us out with keeping an eye on things! Being the ones watching instead of the ones being watched will help everyone in the hive, not just us.
No. 761482 ID: b1b4f3

I wasn't clear with my earlier post. Likol should avoid trying to think up ways to sabotage the Salikai because he's going to be interrogated soon!
No. 761483 ID: e22b1d

Now that you have control over the RS can you bring a Block C contestant inside there safely?

Like someone who is good at diplomacy (Alison), or a leader (Arbitor), or maybe just some random person who does not have to pretend to be clueless (Sweatermouse) and they could be the face for our "new" Ai?

If you don't want to fake things in front of Vanski we need someone else who can. Either a contestant or a simple non sentient Ai you make.

Also you said that Rulekeeper got scared when you looked in there. Why is that? We might want to send a message of "all is well" to reassure her. I can sign it if you want to stay hidden.
No. 761484 ID: 4546ab

Tell Glitcher to make preparations for the future. Long term plans set in place so that they are ready if the opportunity arises to safely leave someday. If he can figure out a way to embezzle funds and buy a science hive compound somewhere far away and hidden where the Cai and your family can live one day then go for it.

But after this conversation tell him to never talk to you about those plans for as long as you remain in Salikai custody. Remind him that you will get interrogated and the less you know the better. The only thing he needs to talk to you about is Cai stuff. Any other plans you will trust to him and his friends.
No. 761485 ID: 3abd97

Let's avoid the moral quagmire of having an incomplete Glitcher attempt to build a limited AI to show off to the Salikai. Who knows how messed up that poor thing would be.
No. 761487 ID: edee29

Well, his memories should be in the logs somewhere, so to find them we just need to figure out how they're being stored now. Can the Glitcher look at the logs of his post-reconstruction and pre-self-modifying self and figure out which changes to the core are the memory encoding? Or maybe he could figure out how his core's referencing the concept of, say, Rulekeeper when he thinks about her, and then branch out into memories in general from there.

>Hide stuff from Vanski
Don't worry about hiding stuff from him. Just get yourself really, really hyped about how you're finally learning stuff about the RS and what's been happening in Block C. And get started on that right now by asking Glitcher questions about that stuff! Like, does he know how he came into being?

>sabotage the Salikai
Eh, I don't think we need to sabotage them per se. We've got some really good opportunities from our relationship with him, even with the downsides. I think our real goal on that front should just be to get our hive some leverage so we can be something closer to equals. Maybe get Quokko on par with his sons, if that's possible.
No. 761497 ID: 44359f

"Well, if you can communicate with people in Block C, perhaps you could come up with some ideas for things in Block C that would be valuable. Data and so on, understanding of how things work. And... augh. Look, you're smart, and since we've already bet on you we might as well bet more, and hope that us being the most friendly beings to you out here for the foreseeable future is enough for you to have some interest in our well-being. I'm guessing you know what the salikai are like, they're scheming, clever, ruthless, admire pragmatism and the logic of profit but aren't as immune to their emotions as they like to think they are. Kind of smug and arrogant. And Vanski is a little unstable and disliking of us at the moment because we couldn't make a cure for his wife."

"We need to convince him to leave you alone, to leave the AIs inside alone, and to leave us alone, if possible please. As in, not punished for... any of this. It'll be a lot easier if he's happy. And... you know, with the psychic thing, it would actually be best if we didn't know everything you do. So... basically, please think for yourself on what measures you can put into place, for now and for the future, that would help us out. Like, you and the AIs and us. Hide things. Secret programs, countermeasures, information gathering... if we don't know, we can't give it away. In fact, convince me that you can't do anything like that, if you can, please. Any useful concealment or deception you can think of that you can make stand up to investigation, because I will need to be able to tell Vanski I have done as much investigation as I can."

"And... well, I don't know how many of the records you've looked at, or how immediately useful it could be, but as a sort of gift, the system that you've come from was mostly made by a belenosian named Arza Fletch. If you could ever contact him, he's an AI researcher and he would probably think of you in there as sort of like his children or possibly grandchildren. He doesn't know that the salikai have been continuing to run this or modify it, and if he finds out he'd want to do something about it. He knows a good deal about the situation with the salikai, though, and he could be convinced that letting the authorities know would be a bad idea, which it would be, since Vanski would likely go for the "burn it all down" option even with the failsafes you've put in place. Anyway, he might be a potential ally, if you can talk to him somehow and tell him everything. Theoretically. You probably can't do that sort of thing, right?"

"Also, if you can, please give me something that will excite me. Some good science facts that I can be happy and babble about, to push my doubts and fears out of my head. Like... are there capabilities of the RS related to something other than itself or the other boxes? Open ports for other technology to be linked into? Ancient belenosian minesweeper? You can probably look at our research logs. If you do you might be able to tell the sorts of things that would make us happy."
No. 761502 ID: bfb318
File 148013749097.png - (31.67KB , 800x800 , 73.png )

"Alright. A simple AI like I mentioned, preferably one that appears sentient. Like how you were before I sped you up. I'd also like a set of tools that look like they could shut that AI down hard if need be. Possibly with a demonstration. And make evidence that suggests the RS AI can't edit the RS itself - erh, and make sure the AI isn't actually sentient!"

Once I finish speaking, a new core shows up on the RS monitor, and a new UI element appears to shut it down.

"I'd like a backup plan to get us and the CAI to safety someday. I don't know how. Run ideas past me when you think of them. Maybe funnel some money. You can investigate to research a plan and what you can do to enact it. Look over the salikai plans, see if there's... no, nevermind, I don't want to know. But do know that Vanski will go for a nuclear option over a stalemate in the long term. Oh, but if you find one Arza Fletch, he may be the most cooperative in saving you and your AI's. Or rather, cooperative and in a position of power."

There are some ideas that I have to bypass, simply because my empathy creates too much danger. I hope the nukes were a lie for more than just the idea of Vanski having them.

"Some way to save your family in block C if the salikai do manage to make a new archcycle. You may not care about them now, but if you get the memories back, you will. Now remember, neumono may not be telepathic, but there are plenty of things that I do not want to think about. Now, what have you done with the CAI and do they know about you?"
>"Not a thing! I've just looked through their eyes, so to speak, but so far, I don't even think they know I exist!"
"Hrm... okay. We may need their cooperation, but they may be willing. I'm curious, when you were in block C... how did you get there? What did it look like to them?"
>"I dunno. I basically tore a hole through it, then a few smaller holes to grab a few strings and take a look. Didn't do any harm but it was like, acupuncture investigation."

He shows up on my laptop. In front of the UI, like he was an invasive desktop 'buddy'.

>"And hey look, they threw some string material and a tooth back in! I was gonna dissolve it like the RS normally does, but I really do feel better with a shell, and it feels even better with a tooth. I guess my core really did get made with one in mind. Except it's a little awkward. I mean, Rulekeep made it with some other Glitcher named 'Mittens'. I mean it's just little friendship cuddles that make teeth, it's not like it's a big deal. But it's like this tooth is a physical manifestation of hugs."

>"And I just put it in my mouth."

>"I gotta admit though it's mostly awkward since Rulekeep really threw in a lot of teeth scratches over the last few minutes - your time, lot longer for Block C - asking if I could hear her. And I just don't want to break the news. I kinda screwed that up I should've just gone toothless. Oh! Oh, you can say you're Likol and you prevented the RS from dissolving the tooth or some bullshit after seeing the first. And then write your message - or just tell me what you want to write - cause you did want to talk to block C didn't you?"
"Please hide the shell and tooth from the RS observer. What do you want your story to be for block C? They'll be asking about you."
>"Just say I'm dead. Or, that you can't find me. Whichever. No one wants to be on either side of a one sided relationship - wow that phrase makes no sense, but - "
"I know what you meant. Actually, before I have you write anything on the tooth... I'm curious, can you give me a visual of what the corruptor and the stabilizer look like?"

They're drawn on screen.

"Which one is which?"
>"The sad looking snake is the corruptor, and the jerkface is the savior. Or I guess you call him the stabilizer."
"He doesn't look that much like a jer-"

Artificial laughter comes out of all the speakers in the room.

I almost ask, but I don't think I want to know.

"Can't you just get your memories from the data in Block C?"
>"No! I mean yes! I mean I have! I know everything I've ever done, but those were - okay, let me rephrase, I got my memories, good job me, but I want you to get my experiences back. Not just some, read-a-book list of memories. I want to feel and be that gushy sentimental guy I absolutely and definitely was before this RS thing stripped me down. Now let me know what you want to write down, but are you actually going to be okay with other neumono in the meeting?"

>For the meeting, just get yourself really, really hyped about how you're finally learning stuff about the RS and what's been happening in Block C
Although I am legitimately excited for advances in the field, I tend to have lots of thoughts bouncing in my head. There is no way I will be unable to think about how the majority of Vanski's facility and resources within are being controlled by a rogue AI with a level of manipulation far exceeding that of a CAI. Including the CAI itself.

"... Glitcher, maybe give me something to be excited and happy about for my meeting with Vanski, to overshadow all the negatives."
>"I'm not a literal god who can give a sad stress-sack like you miracles of happiness, you know! Just gimme some toothy write-downs."
No. 761509 ID: 44359f

Ok, say... "I am sorry to disappoint you, but this is a message from Likol. We have been trying to reconstruct your friend. We have made some progress but are not there yet. If you have some information on how his mind stored experience-memories as opposed to just fact-memories, it would help a lot."

That should cover the essential emotional points, reality mixed with hope.

Then: "You, he and my hive are in some danger; the salikai have control of everything out here, and we need to convince them to keep you alive. And to not be angry at us, preferably. Please try not to cause problems, and to search for and provide anything you can think of to make yourselves seem valuable. The salikai are ruthless and can be vindictive. I will set up a program to fill you in on questions you have about the world out here."

That "program" will be the Glitcher. Something for him to do, and he gets to hear his friends talk. It'll be like he's in disguise!

Also tell Glitcher that you're sure it's occurred to him that it would be better to do some things without telling you, so that you can't unwillingly give them away before it comes time for them to be useful. Tell him that doing that sort of thing would be (wink) very unfeasible, because they would have to be well-hidden to a degree that you're SURE (wink) he isn't capable of (wink), and you'd like to discourage (wink) him from doing any such thing (wink wink).
No. 761510 ID: b1b4f3

Find where Glitcher's new experiences are being stored. That should give you a reference point you can use to track down his old ones.

As for you, instead of thinking about these great achievements try thinking about all the awful things you did. Rulekeep can help! Tell her sorry, the man she loved is still gone and you don't know how to get him back. Then beg for forgiveness. You thought it was impossible for them to be sentient. They weren't supposed to be capable of suffering. No one was supposed to suffer!
No. 761513 ID: 211d83

Well we will work on getting you your experiences back. But judging by how it works with amnesia victims it might just take time and maybe a big shock to your system. As for other Neumono I can't promise anything. Just avoid telling me anything dangerous within a few days of any meetings. And let us know about surprise inspections in advance.

I don't suppose you have any books on hypnotherapy in there do you?

Ok here is some stuff to send to her. But before we do is there any way to match the Contests speed with ours a bit closer? So I am not sending messages once every few months/weeks?

Dear Rulekeeper,

This is Glitcher sending you a message pretending its from Likol. I am pretending to be dead because I have amnesia and am scared about seeing you again until I am fixed. Please don't be mad but my memories are not synced right and it makes me feel like a imposter. Send the kids my love and have Alison mail me some of her records.

Anyways Likol and his team of Science bunnies found me dying and failed to save me cause they are slow and stupid. But they did a half decent job zombifying my corpse so its not all bad. But it turns out they are slaves to some stupid snake assholes who have doomsday weapons. We all live in a computer sitting on a bomb run by madmen.

Never the less hope exists and I will be working on fixing things. Also it was me opening those holes in the sky earlier. As for why I am calling I need someone to live with me in the Ring Shell to pretend to be a clueless Ai that Likol is teaching to talk to you. Maybe someone stupid and horrible like Radmin. I bet he would love to be stuck here with me alone in floaty red space for the next few years. I will open a sky portal in a hour and you just shove some poor bastard into it.

Sorry I am such a coward but the old me loved you so much and I am scared I am not him yet. Tell Mittens thanks for the sweater and to keep his giant hands off my girl.

The artist formally known as "The Glitcher"
No. 761514 ID: e22b1d


Yes give Glitcher that message and see how he reacts.
No. 761516 ID: 44359f

Hmm. Actually, I wonder if an entity with the CAI's powers could fabricate something that would keep foreign neumono out. A conveniently accidental alarm of some description? Some experiment gone wrong? Gang of tribal neumono somehow got past the door? Unlikely. But possible.

So... foreign neumono can't really read your mind exactly, right? They'll just be getting emotional impressions. Perhaps you could trip them up on false positives for guilt and fear? Spend some time before the meeting really working yourself up over other anxieties. Talk to the medical team about their failure. Think about that schism you had and how this could maybe lead to another one. Think about your future and Vanski's opinion of you, all the possible long-term ramifications of what crimes you'll be found guilty of and anything else you can think, of unrelated to the Glitcher, that would make you feel scared and nervous and all that. Drink a lot of coffee.

Then those foreign neumono won't know what's what. Maybe?
No. 761518 ID: 3abd97

>I want you to get my experiences back. Not just some, read-a-book list of memories. I want to feel and be that gushy sentimental guy I absolutely and definitely was before this RS thing stripped me down
Um. Well, if we don't yet have a way to access where you original experiences were stored, the simplest way to get the experiences back might be to reexperience them. Build a simulation to replay the memories encoded in the strings for you as they originally happened, and then lock yourself inside, throw all the processing power you have at running through it, and hack yourself so you forget it's not real and get to re-experience it. Build yourself an amnesia holodeck, and relive your live.

>>"Just say I'm dead. Or, that you can't find me. Whichever.
...I'll tell them you're on ice. That you are theoretically recoverable but we haven't been able to fully integrate your memories and personality yet. Which isn't a lie. We'll blame the RS intrusion on our attempted repair and a half-completed AI poking around blindly. Which also isn't a complete lie.

>communications with the people inside the sim
Tell them who you are, that you're trying to reconstitute Glitcher, and it would help if they explained what they know about how he works or how they pushed him into the Ring Shell in the first place. As you understand the CAI, he's not supposed to exist, and that wasn't supposed to be possible. Whatever they discovered that caused either of those things should help. What did they do? How did they build their own RS AIs? Why (and how) did they supplant the stabilizer?

Also apologize. You... didn't know anyone was alive inside there. There wasn't supposed to be.
No. 761519 ID: edee29

>I almost ask, but I don't think I want to know.
I think you do. If he's really that bad, maybe you should tell the Rulekeeper that you're disowning him and that she gets to be your stabilizer now.

>memories vs experiences
What he needs is to find out how the associations tied to the memories are stored and recreate them. If he can't figure out how to do that himself then does anyone in the simulation know how? The storage format may be different, but the mechanics should be identical.

Alternatively, we could just reset him again and then run him through a very convincing simulation of his life up until being deconstructed.

Well, to start with, could we get some more people resurrected to get the simulation speed roughly equal to real time? Start sending ticks through and tell them to resurrect people until they're receiving them at about one per second.
No. 761534 ID: db0da2

Seconding these two.
No. 761536 ID: 44359f

We could probably also tell them to try find a way to survive an archcycle reset. "Your program" (Glitcher) can probably fill them in on the outside-looking-in perspective of how their world works, which might help.
No. 761570 ID: a107fd

The one way we know Neumono can deliberately edit their own empathy is deep repression. So, try to associate the full terrifying implications of Glitcher being on the loose, with that schism your hive went through. Sort of a unilateral decision both times, right? You even ran out on the planning meeting, just to get this whole clusterfuck started properly.

Then, flush it all down the ol' memory hole until you're done explaining to Vanski that everything is fine, and will either continue to be fine, or become even better, as appropriate.
No. 761585 ID: 8111b6

'My name is Likol. I am outside. I found the tooth. I am trying to rebuild this glitcher you speak of, but it is not a simple thing and may not be one hundred percent possible. Sorry for problems. Might contact again, or might not, depending on how things unfold on this end.'

Just a quick message. Deeper communication can be done when things aren't as crazy. ... and get some lights on.
No. 761616 ID: 211d83

Glitcher: Come to the horrible realization that for the new tooth to exist Mittens has been making out with your girl.
No. 761623 ID: 3abd97

It's okay, he doesn't remember how to care about that right now.
No. 761624 ID: 44359f


Well, at least she's in... good hands.
No. 761631 ID: e22b1d

Just imagine it Glitcher.

Mittens sees the holes opening up in the Ring shell and knows this is his chance. He teleports to Rulekeeper knowing that she will do anything to save you.

Caressing Rulekeeper with his meaty monster hands he nibbles on her ear as she gasps. "But I can't betray Glitcher like this" she sobs as she puts up a show of struggling in his grip.

"It's the only way to get a new tooth Rulekeeper. You know what we have to do." Mittens whispers into her ear as he slowly runs his hands down her body.

Lewd tooth making commences as Mittens does intimate horrible things to Rulekeeper.

But luckily you can't feel things so who cares right?
No. 761642 ID: 44359f

If you want things to get science-excited about, Likol, he did say he had kids, somehow. Probably with this "Rulekeeper", the way things sound. Imagine that! I mean, the different boxes are supposed to be basically separated systems, right? Yet not only can a RS AI wear a suit made of inner system material, AIs from each system can intermingle to create new AIs? Think of how weird and unusual those new AIs must be! Think about how much it could be possible to learn from them, and from the process of their creation! Think about how much better AIs probably are at making AIs than naturally selected carbon poppets like yourselves are! Think about... the system now definitely having multiple AIs in it that won't even survive an ordinary cycle reset and reincarnate, much less an archcycle. Uh, geeze. Um. Think about... AI breeding programs... damn, there's a lot of dark placesto potentially go, actually.

But still, science, right?

I know you've got a lot of stuff coming soon to dread, but, you've been trying to do the right thing so far, Likol. Take a little moment for yourself, bask in the warm light of discovery.


I think Glitcher's "hands off my girl" was always more about people threatening her than jealousy. And it was generally directed at people he didn't like anyway. He didn't mind the sim-pomi's interactions with her. I'm not sure any of the AIs ever really had any concept of monogamy? I also think he'd be at least a bit happy that she found someone to keep her company, considering he was basically dead. He'd joke about it, I think, but he wouldn't really want her to insist on loneliness for his sake.

And hey, once you go glitch you ain't gonna switch.
No. 761780 ID: bfb318
File 148023109993.gif - (36.76KB , 800x800 , 74.gif )

>Some experiment gone wrong? Gang of tribal neumono somehow got past the door?
Damn, under the right circumstances, this could temporarily remove Vanski's neumono escort, but the fact that I come up with it is dangerous.

>So... foreign neumono can't really read your mind exactly, right? They'll just be getting emotional impressions.
That's right, but exact things have been gotten before. Not from direct mind reading, but... if I say something, the other neumono will realize I might be lying. Then they'll press, and realize I'm leaving something out. Then they'll realize I'm half-lying. Then they'll play 20 questions, and, well, without being able to lie effectively, well, experienced neumono interrogators have an easy job.

Then again, I have studied meditation and tricks to try and avoid this. I may do it again, but it's difficult.

I have glitcher scratch a message onto his new tooth for Rulekeeper, who I can assume is stage 8.

I'm sorry to disappoint, and sorry for much more than that, but this is Likol. I never thought all of you were sentient, but I expect you've realized my error. We are trying to reconstruct your friend, but we're not there yet. If you have any ideas on how his mind stored experiences and not just fact based memories, that would help. If you're capable of resurrecting more people, do so. I will tap the tooth one time per second. Slow down by resurrecting more people until you receive the taps at one per second.

>"I guess that's okay."
"For your experiences, Glitcher. Can you not just build a simulation for yourself to reexperience your life before this, and maybe just hack yourself so you aren't aware you artificially remade your own life?"
>"Oh huh that's an idea. I mean that would work wouldn't it."
"But you don't like it."
>"It was, uh, pretty lame right up to the end. I want to have the experiences but I don't want to go through them, if you know what I'm saying. And hacking myself is kinda, I dunno, cool sounding if I were doing something cooler than just this. Yeah I'm not feeling that."
"You might feel that it was worth it if you had your experiences already.
>"Yeah ironic or something. Let's keep that on the back plate and try another way first."
"Anyways, please have Rulekeeper write a report on how everything in the cycle got so abnormal, like supplanting the stabilizer. Oh, and that if my stabilizer treated anyone poorly, then this new stage 8 is welcome to be the new stabilizer. It's not my enemy."

There are a lot of questions I have regarding how they got to the RS in the first place, how glitcher has 'kids', and what the simulation looks like from the inside, but Vanski's meeting is going to occur too soon for me to indulge.

Rulekeeper already wrote a long reply with a list of questions.

"Glitcher, please tell her I'll answer it as soon as I can. And also... remember you can't tell me every dark secret around, so although I am nervous about how much you're doing, there are things, I'll admit, you should do without telling me."
>"Wait do you want me to tell Rulekeeper that last part or..."
"... No. Just that I'll answer it as fast as I can."
>"Well okay then buddy. Anyway Vanski's on his way over if you want to meet him halfway and I dunno get him a present or something."

>"He likes those."

I would almost think that I am dreaming all of this.
No. 761782 ID: 211d83

Well what does he like and where can I get some quick?
No. 761784 ID: 15a025

What kind of present does he like?
No. 761785 ID: 3abd97

>Damn, under the right circumstances, this could temporarily remove Vanski's neumono escort, but the fact that I come up with it is dangerous.
Vanski's a paranoid old coot, though. He'll look for someone to blame, and if something goes wrong with his neumono escort, the first place he'll cast suspicion on is the neumono he was planning to inspect and might have something to hide.

>I would almost think that I am dreaming all of this.
There haven't been nearly enough sexy naked hivemates or unmitigated scientific success today for this to be a dream. Granted, you've had both of those, but not enough, and not at the same time, so you must be awake.

>Vanski's on his way over
Then we have time to make the lab presentable. We need the lights and the quantum computer back on, the phone on the hook where it belongs, Glitcher needs to hide himself and any damning information from the UI, and we need a harmless crippled phoney Glitcher to show off, and progress towards constructing a working communication link with the simulation (that's not complete).

None of this is a lie- so long as you think about and discuss what you are capable of doing or figuring out on your own. Ignore what Glitcher is capable of doing for you on his own, since you do not understand that, and it's cheating. A shortcut. The science isn't there for it yet.

>meet Vanski halfway
It would be out of character for you to do so. You bring more suspicion by breaking routine to leave your lab when something critical is happening.
No. 761787 ID: 91cfcf

Do you know what kind of present people have given him in the past?
No. 761790 ID: 44359f

Well, if you're lucky, Glitcher will have thought of something to remove the neumono himself, and since you didn't give him the idea, you can honestly say that you had nothing to do with it. So far it's just one of those silly panicked thoughts that anyone might have, like "maybe I can just pretend I'm not here".

Anyway do you have a place you generally meet for meetings like this? Send some hivemates over to tidy it up while you go to meet Vanski. Do you have any idea what presents he would like? The only thing I can think of him having reacted to was a photo of himself you gave him once, and I assume he's moved beyond being impressed by things like that. You'd know him better than us. And Glitcher seems privy to his secrets, too. But do you even have anything to give him that he doesn't already have?... Food? What does he like to eat? Send some hivemates to get him something salikai like to eat or drink at your meeting.

Hey, could you get Glitcher to make your "presentation" AI have a little interface that looks like a salikai? Maybe a cute rudimentary simplified or cartoon salikai thing, or something. It's a very primitive tactic for appealing to your audience but it might be worth a shot.

I wonder, could Glitcher sort of "puppet" the AI you're going to be showing? You want to show Vanski something with impressive capabilities, after all. If you show him a non-sentient AI that sometimes somehow does things that only a more advanced AI could do, by drawing from some hidden process and possibly a connection to the deeper system that you don't fully understand yet, that might impress/intrigue him.

Don't tell Glitcher to do any such thing, but maybe wonder about it out loud.
No. 761791 ID: b1b4f3

If you were to get him something, keep in mind he will be curious how you knew he liked presents. Privileged information could be your downfall.
No. 761792 ID: b1b4f3

Hey I thought of how you might be able to avoid interrogation. At some point during the ensuing conversation with Vanski you should bring up the inconvenience of being cut off from the outside world since he obviously won't want to risk someone getting to you and stealing your knowledge, right?

If you're kept under lock and key they won't be interrogating you.
No. 761795 ID: 91cfcf

Everyone likes getting free stuff. The only suspect part is making it too weirdly specific, and if it's something general enough to be guessed from basic knowledge of his personality or salikai in general, it's easy to explain. He's the boss and he needs to be made happy, especially after the failure with his girlfriend.
No. 761816 ID: b412df

Nothing that would be out of character, so that would probably be nothing but making the lab look decent, and results.

Start compiling what data you have from the RS AI's intrusion, so the section of decoded RS, so you can present a narrative of how things happened, so way more active than usual cycle, previous cycles got activated, stabiliser failsafe got activated, and a RS based AI ended up in the RS, and it decoded a section of RS before being dissolved. You decided to leave the simulation running and reconstruct the RS AI to try and get it to decode more RS, and here we are.

Neumono being present is going to be tough, so start predicting what Vanski might ask, for example about leaving the cycle running, and what caused the failsafe to activate, so they don't throw you which could make you appear emphatically suspicious. Try to substitute clinical terms for the AIs, so RS AI for Glitcher, Stage 8 AI for Rulekeeper, Generosity Anomaly for Alison. You have results you have and the potential for more.

If you seem like your talking off a script from going over this, you can play that off as being nervous as this is the first interesting thing that's happening in 30 years, and given you took a slight risk in doing so you wanted to present it properly.

I'm not sure if we should mention that the stabiliser got subsumed, Vanski might interpret that as the Stage 8 AI having the potential to damage the sim, but not mentioning that might make you seem emphatically suspicious. Just try to get all the suspicious thinking that might occur during the report done now so it won't happen in the report, before Vanski and the neumono get in range.
No. 761832 ID: df49f7

You should get him a delicious cake. You must know what flavours salikai like by now, right?

Anyway yes, only do preparations for the meeting you could conceivably have come up with yourself, knowing that he would come by to talk to you eventually. Tidy up, be presentable, tea and biscuits, et cetera. Maybe if there's some other project someone else in your hive has been working on and hadn't gotten a chance to present to Vanski yet, they could bring over a prototype, if it's something suitably interesting and portable.

If he does have neumono with him... perhaps we can get them on our side. They're probably hardass mercenaries or something, but they're still people. It's not like the salikai can literally program neumono to be perfectly loyal to them and obey their commands unquestioningly, right? Not yet anyway, ha ha! Ha ha ha ha...

So yeah when he gets here and they're here beside him maybe you just go "I believe you appreciate honesty sir, so I'd like to preface my statements by saying the fact that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of increasingly likely-to-be-sapient intelligences are resting on the decisions being made today has been very much weighing on my mind. Aside from direct concern for them, I am also worried for the state of my hive, as many of the younger members are still quite idealistic and an increased chance of a schism is a possibility if things play out a certain way. I am sure you remember the trouble from last time. This has all been sudden and I have not had time to properly order my thoughts, so please forgive me if my notes thus far display some bias. I hope to make a more thorough and balanced report later."

Then the neumono with him, combined with feeling your honest empathy on both of those, will be made aware both of the AIs' lives (which anyone with any scrap of morality/ethics should be concerned for) and the schism chance (which is still technically in the offing based on your decisions, and which neumono specifically should be sympathetic towards). You might also shoot them your own unspoken empathic "please help me out" message to them, depending on how potentially helpful you sense them to be.


Well, Likol could say he's found evidence that the stabilizer as-was had undergone some manner of gradual degradation and that, once this reached a certain point, a dormant system inside the cycle activated which corrected it back into a less dangerous and more useful form, and that while investigating that whole process thoroughly is still on his list he does not currently believe that it is any immediate cause for concern.

Really, there's a lot of questions Likol can still answer with "I don't know everything yet, but I intend to", and Vanski's neumono would be able to sense honest confusion and intent to find out more from him.
No. 761966 ID: 8111b6

Maybe that meeting Likol ran out of could be thrown back together as a way to get out?

Also, any small things he likes that aren't too much hassle to get and give?
No. 761973 ID: bfb318
File 148029751774.png - (48.74KB , 800x800 , 75.png )

"Thanks for the tip, Glitcher, but if I do something like that, he'll wonder why I've left the laboratory in this situation, and how I learned he likes presents."
>"Oh yeah I guess that's right. Huh."
"But, for sake of future reference, what sort of present does he like?"
>"Hand made pottery. He loves that shit!"
"Hm. Alright. Remember, seemingly sentient but simple AI that is not actually sentient, and a lead, but not yet successful, method to communicate with the stage. Maybe puppet the AI a bit yourself to give it a hint of complexity."

I make sure the lights are set to a comfortable setting for Salikai, and that the quantum computer is operating in full capacity.

"Glitcher... Glitcher, I need this 'no memory' message gone! I need you to remove all UI hacks."
>"Fine you got it buddy." Glitcher puts his arm around a digital mockery of me. "Vanski ain't that fun is he?"

I suppose that's apt.

I start trying to think of the right narrative. I think I have it down, but maybe it's the slight calm before the storm mixed with all this stress, but I'm having a difficult time predicting what Vanski might ask other than the obvious ones.

Maybe that's for the best. If I'm overly tired, I'll think less, which in front of other neumono, may be best. I think I'm going to end up pulling the 'I don't know everything yet, but I intend to' card a lot in this meeting.

>Emergency meeting to get out of Vanski's meeting
Quokko thinks that would go poorly.
No. 761974 ID: bfb318
File 148029752813.png - (54.22KB , 800x800 , 76.png )

Glitcher removes all the evidence I can see - and hopefully what I can't see - when my hive starts broadcasting a Vanski sighting.

Momu and Rihhin return. Reon takes his leave to get some sleep. Quokko doesn't re-enter the laboratory, but she does stay within empathic range nearby.

Vanski, 4 arkots, and 2 neumono come through the hallway.

>"Likol, Rihhin, Momu, it's been awhile." he says.
"Hello, sir." I say, and Rihhin and Momu stand to my side, making a nod.
>"I've heard from Kiiu that you've made a potential breakthrough, and wanted his help making a proper presentation, correct?"
"That's right, sir."
>"I look forward to it, but even if it wasn't me doing all the work, I've put in colossal resources over the course of thirty years. You should see the electric bill."

I think that was a joke? Or at least a funny smalltalk? Salikai don't typically do that, and it's as though he did it entirely for my own amusement. We make awkward smiles to politely acknowledge it. Thankfully, the other neumono don't feel it's worth reporting how awkward we are about it before Vanski moves along.

>"Before that, I want to know what I can expect. Your message was vague. So, consider this to be a presentation of what your presentation will be about."

One neumono reports that I seem unduly stressed and exhausted.

>"I hope I'm not coming in at a bad time." Vanski adds.
No. 761976 ID: 595d54

"As we've said, the potential breakthrough is only potential, and I am well aware of the stakes. I have been working to ensure it goes smoothly."
No. 761978 ID: 3abd97

>"I hope I'm not coming in at a bad time." Vanski adds.
You've arrived at the most confusing, complicated, and demanding of my attention time in my entire career. So it's the best time to be here, and the worst.

>So, consider this to be a presentation of what your presentation will be about.
We've had some unprecedented developments that may give us the breakthrough we've been looking for all this time.

We've discovered than an RS AI is possible, and that using the RS to communicate with the simulation is possible. We're currently working to understand, recreate, and exploit this breakthough. (That's the tldr reduction, leaving out how we discovered this, how it works, etc. Also, that's all theory, and it's all true).
No. 761979 ID: 211d83

Sorry I have been up all night double and triple checking everything over and over.

Having the possibility of a sudden breakthrough after 30 years of constant slow progress has us all worked up. I have been working constantly since the discovery to find out everything I can and make sure this is a actual breakthrough and not just a fluke.

Come on in and I will show you the beginnings of our presentation.
No. 761981 ID: db0da2

It's probably better to brush over being unduly stressed than to overexplain, to avoid dispensing obvious and suspicious half-truths. Say what you would say if things weren't going perfectly smoothly, but not bad enough that you'd be willing to mess up impressing your boss.
No. 762000 ID: 44359f

Alright, I want to have a go at that "be honest/tickle the other neumono's consciences too" plan.

So, let him in to start with, so that you're not being rude, and while you walk say something like: "There are no unequivocally good times to be had for me right now, sir, and there will not realistically be for some time, I think. To be honest, I still haven't fully gotten over either the excitement of the breakthrough and its possibilities, or the shock of going from "we have been erasing the memories of probably-not-sapient AIs" to "we have certainly been killing probably-sentient AIs", and that probability has only been increasing. Kiiu has probably told you that I am somewhat preoccupied with the possibility that you might decide to have the ones alive now disposed of, and it's still true, for now. I hope I will be calmer and more balanced in my mind later, if we don't discover any further upsets. As it is, I'm not there yet, so please forgive me if I seem confused or if my concerns push me to present things with some bias." (Maybe give the neumono a bit of meaningful empathic eye contact, here). "I simply haven't clarified things fully yet, even to myself. I was vague in my message partly because at the time I sent it, I could only be vague, as we had mostly possibilities and only a few certainties. For the most part, that's how the balance still stands right now, to be frank."

That done, you can start going over the basics.

"The condensed version of the story is: We may have what seems a very advanced AI that we will probably be able to make a great number of valuable advances by studying. It currently occupies the Ring Shell, and we may or may not be able to extract it from there into another system, as it may or may not require some manner of lingering connection to or resources from the internal system in order to function at its fullest. There are some theoretical risks, but we have been taking steps to reduce them and we do not believe there is a threat to us at this time."

If the neumono sense a problem from you on that note, say: "Your attendants probably sensed a spike in my anxiety just then, and yes there is more I could say on that topic, but the situation right now is really the best we can manage and it would only increase risks to disturb it, believe me. In the worst scenario, which is very unlikely, it will still be the case that the AIs will be intelligent enough to recognize the power we have over them, the same as our current CAI."

Then go on: "I will be able to say more later. We have also discovered a method by which we could theoretically retrieve information from within the CAI generation system, which offers a lot of potential, very valuable advancement as well, but again, it is untested."

"The basic timeline of events is that, during a particularly anomalous cycle, though generally of anomalies we have seen before, a blend of RS virtual material and in-system material was ejected into the RS, in the shape of an AI. This may or may not have been an intentional act, though we detected some communication between the RS AI and the AIs within the generation system, as the in-system material was almost immediately ejected back out the way it came in and the RS material was torn apart. Most of our work between now and then has been to put it back together, which has resulted in an... incomplete version of the original AI. There is still more reconstruction to be done. If you want, it is possible to have some interaction with it, though I would honestly be a little worried. There are... quite a few delicacies to the situation."

Fortunately, Glitcher puppeting the presentation AI means that interacting with it means, to an extent, interacting with him.
No. 762004 ID: 398fe1

Oh he's got other Neumono here already. Tell them not to worry about it, your state of mind won't stop your research. Then get to showing off your progress so far.

I doubt you're gonna get far in the report without your empathy tipping them off that something's wrong, so when pressed you should probably confess that you think they're all sentient and have been from the beginning which means you're personally responsible for the death of TRILLIONS and just wallow in your guilt. They'll figure that was what you were hiding from Vanskii and would probably stop any further interrogation because ugh what a sad sack, right?

This story won't fit the actual progress we've made. The simple AI we've created is not sentient and there is no current advanced AI active in the ring shell as far as Vanksii knows.
No. 762006 ID: 44359f


With Glitcher puppeting it, it could seem at least partly sentient. It's also made clear that the AI on offer is one that's only partially reconstructed from what was briefly seen, which could explain why it doesn't display full sentience now.
No. 762009 ID: b412df

This, show them what you've got, including the section of decoded RS from the RS AI before it got dissolved initially.
No. 762048 ID: 25393f

I am wary of saying this much so quickly, plus I think some of this might be things we shouldn't be saying at all if we're not pressed to.
No. 762078 ID: 44359f


Well, if you wanted to reduce it down, I guess the general message of "I don't want to be rude but yes it is kind of a bad time, I am indeed very tired and stressed and there is a lot of information we're still in the process of finding, so I have doubts about my ability to tell you what's going on without slipping up, missing details or giving you the wrong idea" is the one to aim for.

However, some imprecision and confused feelings might be forgiven now that won't be later, and covering certain things now might mean those things can be skipped to some extent in the fuller report.

Or, admittedly, things said now might create a danger of creating contradictions in the full report later, which will draw attention. But that chance seems slim so long as Likol maintains a "this data is all pretty provisional and might be revised with new information" presentation.
No. 762138 ID: 094652

"So I have good news, and then I have bad news. You know, the usual

Today, we discovered a mental cluster of AIs that managed to build a sort of avatar in our data readouts. We used morse code to communicate and lo-and-behold, we found it knew morse code! It's the first AI to have successfully read and applied the morse code books we put in the machine, along with all the other libraries. We started talking to it. Turns out it developed a simulated personality based on ALL the data of the outside world we fed into the current cycle.

So we fed it more. First source code, then text files, then pictures and gifs. Eventually, it wanted video. It started talking, making simple conversation, advancing its avatar further and further, anything to get us to give it more data. Eventually, we gave it our source code.

IT FIXED THE SOURCE CODE. Found some hacking vulnerabilities, and even better, gave us a diagram of how it would work as a process and what inputs and outputs it gave, all connected to the lines of code in our system, all as one big easily-read piece of art. We realized it could read the entire program and improve it further, give us a chance to find other sapient AIs in the system that could also simulate conversation but weren't as proficient in communication. So we gave it the entire source code and waited for an hour.

Then it started ranting and self-destructed.

Which brings us to the great thing about computers - Control-Z. We used a backup, recreated the environment, found the same cluster, gave it different information, which it used to solve a completely different problem while also comparing the intrinsic curves of a teacup to... well, let's just say our problem involved inappropriate content. Then it made some naughty clipart and set itself on digital fire, the digital avatar devolved in resolution as the bundles of clipart were randomized and finally deleted. Artists.

We did it again, and again, and saved different copies of the RS AI. We have physicists, biologists, engineers, politicians, philosophers (I wouldn't recommend that one), artists, even stand-up comedians who can take in a recent history of the world and call us out on how insane our society is. We couldn't stop laughing as it died for the killer joke. We're confident that we can transfer this system to other computers and with enough work in the near-future we can compress the AI so that it works with phones and CAI augmentations.

Which means, after three decades and billions of gambling money re-routed to this 'dead-end' venture, we did it. We're done. With the alpha, that is. Super-AI 1.0 is cooked and ready for deployment.

And NOW for the bad news: according to the autopsy of our AI 'corpses', it seems that there's some form of 'mental labyrinth' that this specific AI base needs to sift through to prevent it from degenerating, slipping into Maverick, or tripping over its own brain and tearing the wires out. So basically, our current version is a sort of 'hacking consumable' that learns about its job, makes intelligent conversation with the owner to improve its performance through innovation, and MAY do its job before heading into a mad tailspin and self-destructing. At the current rate of research, and given that our knowledge of machine intelligence is mastered at the 'amoeba' level, you can expect we'll all be long dead and our great-great-grandchildren will be mooching off our old money by the time our successors develop a stable, lifelong innovative AI.

Also, the RS AI sputtered some code names before it fizzled the first time, so if you want to give your new company signature tool a brand name or something..."
No. 762140 ID: 398fe1

We're right next to a lie detector, bud.
No. 762148 ID: 91ee5f

2 of them, if we're being accurate.

3, if you count Vanski being able to read body language and facial expressions and being able to tell if he's bing lied to based on the way Likol says things to him. Because, based on their past conversations, if Likol acts too differently, Vanski could probably pick up on it without the help of his neumono.

After all, the Salikai couldn't have gotten this far if they relied only on loyal neumono being their lie detectors and not being able to read into if someone's lying to them through body language.
No. 762496 ID: bfb318
File 148048101305.png - (27.83KB , 800x800 , 77.png )

"It's turbulent right now, but..."

... How do I finish that sentence.

"It's okay."

... it's okay?!

"That is, it's as good a time as any."

Urgh. The other neumono pass on my nerves. I'm already tripping down a hill.

"This is a potential breakthrough - " damnit, my empathy - "That is, I'm sure it is a breakthrough of some kind, but how it is and how useful it'll be is what I am trying to figure out for the meeting."

... ...

"There is a snippet of AI within the Ring Shell. It may be able to act as a liason - er, entity, of... that is, it may represent the RS, and effectively means we can communicate with the RS more directly."
>"A snippet? You once proposed the idea that the RS was entirely an AI."
"Y-yes, and that's still possible, but it seems like it can send pieces of itself elsewhere, and we managed to isolate it."

Another silence comes from Vanski, leaving the two guard neumono to stand over our mental shoulders looking at what we're thinking about. Their head and necks move slightly in a way that's familiar to me that they're speaking more.

>"You all seem unduly nervous." Vanski says. "This isn't dangerous, is it?"
"We have extra precautions set up."
>"............ I feel there is more to be said."

Damnit, damnit, the neumono are saying too much! They're thinking that we're thinking they're saying too much! They think this is amusing?! No, I think they're looking at my shirt.

"... they might be sentient."
"You know that I did this experiment believing there was no way they could be sentient. There's.. evidence, otherwise."
>"And you believe you've been killing them all this time?"

I struggle to find the words to explain this to him. One of the guards answers for me, as I believe he just says 'yes'.

There's no appealing to the conscience of these neumono after all. They're barely uplifted brutes who have been near-brainwashed and filled up with blind loyalty to their leaders. Vanski wouldn't have neumono escorts that were anything less, or maybe not anything more than zealots. If these were well raised neumono that cared for anything except their hive and what feeds their hive, then they wouldn't be here.

"The experiment is still running, and... we may also have a way to communicate with the simulation in Block C directly. Even if I still had absolute confidence they were not sentient, I think there's too much merit to keeping them intact, currently, than there is to keep the cycles rebooting as usual."
>"Hmm..." Vanski says, as the escort reports that that is the truth, thankfully. Yet they're still also saying that they feel like not all of my thoughts are passing through my mouth. "Your thoughts are in a mess, aren't they?"
"Y...yes, sir." I say, and Momu and Rihhin give accompanying nods.
>"Perhaps I did come by too early, and I suppose you were vague in your message since nothing is confirmed yet. Show me the AI."
No. 762498 ID: bfb318
File 148048102512.png - (31.62KB , 800x800 , 78.png )

The AI that is shown seems like a good replica of how Glitcher was on initial reconstruction. Vanski introduces himself, and asks him virtually the same questions I did. It goes by without a hitch. If the rest of this meeting was going a tenth as smoothly, I wouldn't be wishing the stress would just knock me out.

>"You want to see the experiment come to fruition, correct?" Vanski says, turning to me. Glitcher, on the screen, gives me a thumbs up. When the escort neumono team look to see what just made my hearts stop, Glitcher dives off the side of the monitor. That dumb bastard.
"Of course."
>"It seems like you've been wandering through halls for ages, and finally stumbled into a vast forest to explore. You're confused, overwhelmed and nearly shaking in your nerves, am I right?"
"Cl-clea... yes."
>"Are you hiding something from me on purpose?"

... I sure am. I sure am. Even if I could personally hold in that feeling, all of my hive couldn't. The neumono escort is about to say I'm holding out. It might be better to come clean than have them gradually interrogate me.
No. 762509 ID: 398fe1

Explain your feelings. If you tell him what it is you're worried he'll call a halt to everything and you'll be stuck for decades waiting for this to happen again. If he still wants you to elaborate, tell him he'll regret knowing. If he just lets you work in peace, everything will work out fine for the both of you.
No. 762514 ID: 094652

"Sir, I would hide ANYTHING that would cause you to go into a wild frenzy, ordering your rent-a-cops to rape and murder us.

Can you.. promise to stay calm? Or something? Because I can show you slowly and maybe you won't completely lose your marbles."
No. 762518 ID: 595d54

"Of course I am, sir. The situation right now is delicate and I would prefer as little interference as possible from any source whatsoever. We're facing a breakthrough in how the AI works and even the slightest thing going awry could have catastrophic results. With all due respect, I feel that the fewer people involved in this the better until we have solid results."
No. 762527 ID: 3abd97

>"Are you hiding something from me on purpose?"
The only way to beat a lie detector is to tell the truth. You need to sacrifice a smaller secret to protect the biggest one (that the RS is completely compromised).

>>"Are you hiding something from me on purpose?"
Many things. This is a summary of a summary after our world has been turned upside down.

...and it comes at the worst possible time, when trust between us is the lowest, and such a shakeup could cost us access to this discovery before we even begin to understand it.

Make it about your own ego, your own fears, your own attachment to the project, your worry it will give Vanski an excuse to take it to you. Those are all very real emotions, and things you didn't want out in the open, but way less dangerous than your real secret. But dark enough he'll think he got at what's really worrying you.

Tl;dr- talking politics is the less ugly choice for the first time ever.
No. 762593 ID: a8bc5c

"..Yes. The stabilizer program I wrote to prevent catastrophic damage within block C"

Do air quotes right here. Yes, with your fingers.

"Has been subsumed by stage eight."

end air quotes.

"I'm not fully sure what's going on in block C, but nothing has been damaged so far by this terrifying event.

Given time, I'm sure I can patch up the RS AI to talk to block C and find out, well, everything."
No. 762612 ID: 398fe1

It wasn't made to prevent damage, it was made to prevent too many error messages from piling up. A few error messages are good for figuring out how the RS works. A giant pile isn't useful.

But I mean yeah, that's another thing we could admit.
No. 762616 ID: 6c5eb2


Right, my bad. Still, it's something that Vanski doesn't know about but we do.

Combine that with a good outburst of panic at being found out, and Likol can probably obfuscate what's really going on.
No. 762619 ID: d95874

"There are a few things, sir, yes, but for good reason. Your neumono should be able to tell you that I honestly believe things would very probably go worse, both for us and yourself, if I told you everything that I could right now. If I tell you some details without adequately explaining other facts first, I believe you might feel driven to action that you would regret if you had fuller information, and that full explanation will take more time and preparation for me, and preferably a chance to rest. I didn't want to be rude, sir."

It's true, since Vanski's more direct involvement will significantly raise the chances of mutual destruction and nuclear annihilation. If he takes over or assigns someone else to take over then the possibility Glitcher will need to do something drastic goes way up. You guys would be the best to deal with him, and increased possibility of you being taken off the job is increased possibility that this will all go wrong, for the salikai as much as anyone. It really is in his best interest that he not know everything right now. So, we can just straight-up tell him that not telling him is in his best interest - as well as ours and the AIs - and use those neumono to our advantage by making them attest to the fact we're telling the truth.

I think the "sacrifice a small secret for now" plan will be shot down as soon as we explain it and he goes "ok, anything else?"
No. 762629 ID: a8bc5c

>>762619 So, in an effort to get around being found out via empathy, you'd admit that we are, infact, hiding stuff from the criminal overlord who brings neumono lie detectors with him on surprise visits?

No dice. If Vanski even thinks we're up to something no good, it's our ass.

It's also everyone's collective asses if he finds out we staged a fake AI puppet show with help from a very real AI that has access to everything.

I like your suggestion, but just as the sacrifice small secret plan has flaws, yours is based entirely on him buying a load of bullshit about waiting to find out whatever it is we're trying to hide.
No. 762635 ID: d95874

>So, in an effort to get around being found out via empathy, you'd admit that we are, infact, hiding stuff from the criminal overlord who brings neumono lie detectors with him on surprise visits?

He's about to find that out, anyway, there's no stopping that. And if he does that by himself, he's the kind of person who's going to come to the worst conclusions on his own. We need to give him a reason why we're hiding things that will mollify him. The neumono he has with him will be paying attention now for signs that Likol's not mentioning things, and they'll bring it up if they notice anything of the sort. We can head that off by admitting it before they bring it up, and using the chance to convince Vanski that it's his well-being on the line as well. Which it is.

Either we try get him to buy this bullshit (which isn't technically bullshit), or he'll come up with his own possibly even worse bullshit. And keep in mind, if he decides he needs to go interrogation mode, he'll probably bring in more of Likol's hivemates, who we won't be able to advise.
No. 762657 ID: d95874

Since he'll probably be doubtful of the self-sacrificial presentation by itself, and be suspecting a more selfish motive from the science hive, maybe we should give him one to stop him wondering. So, as well as saying we're hiding some thing for good reason, we could also add an admission of a more personal reason as well, that when this AI first popped up we erred on the side of saving the AIs instead of the maximum safety options, and we're worried about his reaction. But that there are other reasons for being secretive as well.

I'm sure he already knows the neumono are concerned for the AIs, so it won't be mind-blowing or hugely upsetting to him that they fudged on the side of preserving them. Then, with that to feel guilty and scared over, and an explanation given for other feelings of secrecy, these lie detector neumono will hopefully not be able to manage the deep/complex reading that will sort out those guilty/scared/secretive feelings from the other guilty/scared/secretive ones.

Basically, on the assumption that they're foreign enough mentally to the science hive to have some trouble reading them with total accuracy (which it seems they should, if they're brainwashed thugs), then we just need to give them a good enough explanation for the empathic feelings they're getting that they don't feel the need to remark on them. They're probably not that smart.
No. 762666 ID: a107fd

"Yes, sir. I've been trying to hide how much I care about the fact that there are more sapient AIs in any given archcycle than sapient biologicals in the known galaxy, and thus that starting a new archcycle is effectively a genocidal atrocity of incomprehensible scale. I was, and still am, concerned you would use that compassion against me and my hive."
No. 762701 ID: 850f11

Yes sir I am.

We had to be somewhat lax with security and make up a bunch of new programs on the spot to get this Ai stable.

So I am worried you will yell at me for not following proper security procedures and order me to shut things down and work off the logs. But am also worried that if we had not done what we did we would have lost this opportunity.

And I am feeling guilty that I have been killing a uncounted number of Ai's over the years and soon I will have to explain myself to them.

And I really want this breakthrough to be the one we are looking for so that we can not have to erase this cycle.

So I am really hoping that you see the value in what we did and that you let us keep things running so I can learn from these Ai and not have to kill them.
No. 762711 ID: 952ab0

Guys, come on, I love half truths and scheming as much as anybody, but with empaths here, it needs to be simple, direct, and real.

Explain that you have been trying not to think about the implications of these AIs having been sapient all along. Actually think about those implications. The untold trillions of lives cut cruelly short right here under your nose. Your desire to see that end, your NEED to know for sure, to see this through. Have a breakdown right here in front of him. Those feelings are real, and will be overwhelming if you let them spin up.

It should end the meeting too.
No. 762735 ID: 91ee5f

That's a good way to give Likol mandatory vacation time, if Vanski is the type of boss to do that. He'll see how overworked Likol is and give him a vacation to give him time to recharge because Vanski wants Likol at 100% for a project this important.
No. 762830 ID: bfb318
File 148056710747.png - (30.14KB , 800x800 , 79.png )

"Yes, sir. I am. I'm afraid to do so, but I'm more afraid of your reaction if I do tell."
>"Likol... you three. Do you think that I would want to harm you? If you don't tell me what it is, I'm going to wonder if I should want to."
"I'd hope it wouldn't put you in a frenzy, but it's in your best interest that you don't hear it as well! Sir! I fully admit that my - our - mentality might be on edge since we've been committing mass genocide for nearly three decades, and I fully admit I'm wanting to save the current ones now that I think differently, but I can also assure you that telling you the full truth will harm all of us!"

The neumono report that as true, or at least that I think it's true. I do think about the implications of having killed off every single AI.

I feel nauseous, but I don't have a breakdown. I'd almost want to just to end this, and Momu's just hardly keeping it together, but as long as there's one of us that can still speak, this meeting, or interrogation, will continue. Vanski might even bring in Quokko if the three of us can't continue. Even if the meeting did end, the ramifications of a nervous or mental breakdown won't be insignificant.

>"Can you repeat that last part? That I, the one who arranged the funds and material for this experiment to be possible, shouldn't know what the real breakthrough is, or whatever it is you're hiding?"
"Correct! I don't want to say too much because I don't know too much, but the less people that know certain sensitive data," like potential nuclear - "the less people that know, the better!"

Rihhin is trying not to think about how much danger I think we're in, and Momu is mentally shouting the alphabet.

"... I'll admit that the stabilizer I made has been subsumed by stage 8."
"It's related to this RS AI, but in what ways.. I need to find out."
>"You do want this experiment to succeed, correct?"
"Of course." I say, and the neumono confirm it.
>"How dangerous is this RS AI?"
"As much as it is useful."

Did he ask me that already? I've ran through these questions and I can't recall. It's likely he might ask me the same question worded differently just to make sure I give the same answer, mentally and vocally.

>"So on the extreme ends of both. Is the CAI in danger."
"...It - It is." It's already compromised!
>"I understand, Likol. My brain wants to err on the side of caution, but there are limits to the opportunities I would let slide. Since you're confirming it's in danger, I am going to start double checking our anti-CAI security systems and further limit the things that they can touch to minimize the damage in case the CAI does get harmed. Maintain protocol for the RS to shut down if it becomes too far damaged as well. I will be bringing some of the ASE specialists into our facility. Refrain from doing anything dangerous until then." he says, and the three of us tense up. We tense up because we want to punch ourselves until we can't think. "It will only be a couple more... days... and it sounds like... you have already done something dangerous, haven't you?"

Too late.

>"You already did do something?!"

Just kill us now.

>"Likol... this isn't like you at all. Usually so cautious. These younger ones really have rubbed off on you with all this excitement, hm? Well, you did say that me knowing would be unfavorable, I take it what you've done is linked to what you're hiding?... Yes. And are you merely trying to protect the AIs inside of our blocks, or rather, is it in my best interest to unplug the CAI?"
>"No!" Rihhin shouts it without meaning to when she catches my empathy..

All three of us shake our heads anyways.

No! No! No!

The screen flashes 'No!' while Vanski is looking at us.

The neumono escort stiffens up and shakes their heads as well.

>"If this situation is as bad as it apparently might be, I want more people on this than us Su'ata and you three individuals." Vanski says. His voice has flattened, but his movements are jerky like he's holding in screams. "I want to remove you from the project, Likol, but whether or not you're at fault, you're still one of the best RS observers outside of Arza Fletch himself. But I want results, and I want this cleaned up, especially if the situation can only get worse. There are others besides you and Arza. Aside from the security specialists, I'm bringing in ASE ring shell specialists. You'll be a much bigger team, and don't worry about credit, you'll still be the head scientist. Is that acceptable? Or rather, will that cause undue problems?"

I don't know ASE specialists too well, but they're the belenosian mad scientist stereotypes.
No. 762832 ID: 398fe1

Tell him it might slow things down, but you don't think it would be catastrophic or anything.
No. 762833 ID: 094652

Thank him for the grant and ask if you can have a party before you (and your hive) go cuckoo from stress overload.
No. 762838 ID: 3abd97

>Is that acceptable? Or rather, will that cause undue problems?
The answer is that his terms are acceptable. If they aren't, he's throwing you off the project and you lose the ability to influence anything at all.

This just because a long term shell game. Glitcher has to display a fake RS that looks normal, acts normal, and appears to respond normally to tools that interact with or diagnose the RS. He has to basically have all the computers lie to every outsider the salikai bring in for as long as they're there, and you won't be able to talk to him directly. We need them to not discover the RS is compromised, and block their attempts at progress. (Well, Glitcher does).

He can make you and your hivemates necessary, but helping you fake discoveries, making your new ideas and tools work, but not the ASE guys'.

All the while while looking for a way to fix his memories.

...as much as he doesn't want to talk to them until he's fixed, he might need to talk to the AIs in the sim. One person doesn't have the mental capacity to think of everything to keep up the act he will need to. That requires a CAI's worth of people. And they have scientists in there, who can help crack the RS and figure out where his memories are stored, while you're out here being watched, unable to help him.

The absolute first priority is breaking the archcycle reset button. Glitcher needs to disable that, and be prepared to fake normal looking sim data if it is ever pressed.
No. 762839 ID: 90f3c0

Are the ASE entirely belenosian? As long as you don't have any foreign neumono in the lab, you should be able to keep your true intention hidden while you work with the Glitcher behind their backs. The Glitcher seems capable enough to keep himself hidden even with specialist poking around the RS.
No. 762846 ID: 595d54

Agree and make sure he's far out o