7/7 Likol 2016/12/14(Wed)11:15 No. 765847 ID: bfb318
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He just lost consciousness. I'll hold for another few seconds to be sure, then take his things. I can tie him up against a glued screw and gag him using a portion of the laundry rope and some spare clothes of mine. It will be hopefully be awhile before someone comes to check in.

Or I can throw him in the water.

hahaahahahahaha oh god Likol there were even instructions provided for the seduction c'mon

Okay, okay. Tie him up and gag him somewhere near the water and tie a bunch of rocks to him so you can kick him into the water and have him sink quickly if need be.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

check out whatever he was trying to reach for and then weigh him down before gently pushing him into the water.

Then you need to take the cai block and get a move on.

Alright, these guys aren't nice people. Just for doing this much, you're in deep shit already. So why not be in slightly deeper shit, and kill him?

Search him for anything useful first, though. If he has a gun it might not be one you can operate with your fingers, but check it out. He might also have other devices that could be useful, if you can confirm they're not bugged or otherwise a threat to you - he might also have been reaching for an alarm or something. I'd also wonder if he has a tracker on him, but anything that you couldn't find by searching him would probably be too small for its signal to penetrate the rock these caves run through, given that these guys don't usually live here. Follow the instructions back in >>765555 about disposing of his body properly and such. Thinking of taking his laptop in case the storage is still retrievable after a dunk sounds like a good idea.

... If you can get to Arza without running into anyone, there may be a chance to protect your hive from too much punishment. Maybe. They might already have been punished by then, but you might be able to spare them more if you can somehow set up the pretense that Raush was in on this. Like, when you get to Arza, you could tell him that Raush was in on this with you, maybe that he was concerned for the potential advances of the AIs as well, maybe that he knew some threat or conspiracy from someone else in the ASE. Some reason you had to get out with the Blocks, that you couldn't stick around and went to Arza instead. You say he had a breath mask or something but died on the way, from wildlife or the like, depending on how you dispose of him. Then Arza tells everyone that story and it's not your hive's fault, you were caught up in ASE politics crime conspiracy shenanigans, were protecting Vanski's operation, et cetera.

The trouble is that, then, you'd have to either die or fake your death really well, so you couldn't be interrogated. But it could protect your hive.

If you decide NOT to kill him, then you should at least tie and gag him securely and stick him somewhere where he won't be found for a good long time. But you should probably kill him.

Don't kill him. He's just a too bright kid who's fallen in with a terrible philosophy. He doesn't deserve to be murdered in cold blood if you can afford not to.

If you're really going, you can't leave his laptop or anything intact, though.

Unless you feel very, very strongly that not killing him will screw you over I'd try to avoid doing that.

Don't kill him. If you are going down that road don't start by murdering a young scientist that was looking up to you just a few hours earlier. Yeah he works for horrible people but so do you.

If all his research is truly only on that laptop stealing it will set him back the years you need.

The biggest reason to spare him? The backlash against your hive will not be as harsh.

Maybe leave him tied up with a note in his pocket. "Sorry Raush but after 30 years of this I can't view these Ai as expendable. Killing countless trillions for progress is not something I can live with anymore. Especially when befriending them would teach us so much more so much faster."

Then waterproof everything and hide him gagged out of site.

End him. Part of being civilized is doing distasteful things for the greater good. He might not seem that horrible, but his ideology pushes him to be actively immoral, he needs to die for the good of the people he would hurt if he lived.

Leave him a note of apology. You're not used to having such feelings for fragile aliens, and you got a little too rough with him.

But seriously, don't kill him. He doesn't seem like a monster, just a nerd who fell in with a bad crowd in the pursuit of science. Not that different from your friend Arza, or your own hive for that matter.

Tie him up and hide him, then get going. Try to take his laptop with you, wrap it up as best you can and hope it doesn't get wet.

>>765847
You already stated the very logical reason why killing him is the best decision. Even civilized neumono would commit murder to protect their children.

However, look to see what he was reaching for, first. If it's not a gun, maybe it's something that would change your mind. If it IS a gun, take that shit.

>>765869
Whether or not he was reaching for a gun speaks little to intent. It's not like a gun is necessarily a lethal self defense option versus a neumono.

>>765871
A gun is always lethal and you should always act as though it is. Blood loss, hydrostatic shock, and organ damage are all potentially fatal, and even if nonfatal pose serious threats. Part of training in using a gun involves never drawing one unless you're ready to kill whatever they point it at.

tl;dr: A gun absolutely means intent to kill, either directly or by fucking Likol up.

He has guards, it was very likely a panic button.

>>765872
That really doesn't hold versus neumono. Unless you're using HE rounds, a one shot kill is extraordinarily unlikely. I mean, heck, Polo has shot allies as a non lethal knockout, and she had less access to a medical response than Raush would have had here if he'd subdued Likol.

>>765872
Unless it was a specifically an anti-neumono gun (which it might have been), a handgun wouldn't be enough to kill a neumono. Of course, he could have intended to kill Likol after incapacitating him.

>>765874
>>765875
You know guns can fire more than one shot, right? A full-out magdump is an actual threat, especially since handguns can load a decently large caliber.

>>765876
Of course a gun can shoot more than once, and sustained fire would be deadly.

My point is simply that reaching for a gun doesn't tell you what Raush intended, and therefore isn't reasonable to hold up in the moral calculus for or against killing him. It's indeterminate.

>>765877
Fair. To clarify: I don't support killing him either, that can't just be taken back. But going for a gun definitely means we should consider the possibility that he meant to kill Likol.

Disable, but don't kill. If this was a obfuscated order from Vanski then killing the one of the ASE specialists he sent for might get him in trouble with the ASE, which he would then shift to you and your hive if it wasn't what he intended. If he did intend for you to kill him then he would have been prepared for you not to kill Raush due to how confusing the order would have had to be.

>>765878
Sparing him also can't be taken back, it's unlikely we'll get another chance like this. In the likely scenario that the CAI ends up back in the Salikais' hands we don't want him alive and able to hurt them.

Don't kill.

>>765883
Raush is young, he could still be set straight, but by who? Likol? After the stunt he just pulled? One of the contestants? He just stated his intention to kill them. Penn? If she were here she'd have an easier time helping the contestants without him standing in her way. Raush is a criminal surrounded by criminals, a few years from now he will have hardened, the naiive scientist will have faded away and only the criminal following in the footsteps of the most evil person to have ever lived will be left.

Kidnap him.

>>765895
If this is possible, it'd be the best of both worlds. However, it would require there to be breathing spots in the water tunnel. Neumono can hold their breath for a long time, belenos not so much.

Or would there be ten minutes of air if we stuffed him in a garbage bag? Are the garbage bags big enough? Could we cut them up and tape them together to make one big enough?

Yeah tying him up and gagging him should probably be sufficient. The disadvantage is there's no deniability about which of you stole the CAI. Although I guess that's pretty shot anyway with your supply request. Not completely, but.

Anyway though. If you do decide to kill him after all, don't destroy the laptop.
I was about to say you should destroy the laptop if you don't kill him but on second thought I don't know why. If we reduce their ability to insert into the ring shell, that increases the chances they'll set up another terrible experiment. And there's no real reason we'd want to slow down their research, right? Except that we might want it not to be in the ASE's hands, I guess.

The best way, I guess, would be to make Raush think you've destroyed the laptop but actually hide it somewhere where one of Vanski's - but not a neumono - will find it. Buuuut that seems difficult to guarantee. Especially while still being deniable about loyalty to Vanski. Plus, it's pretty cruel to Raush.

TL;DR IDFK

Hey considering how good Glitcher is at hacking systems, I wonder if the ASE decided they want to use him as a weapon? Heck, I'm not sure why Vanski didn't try to do that.

Killing him is more dangerous to your hive, keeping him alive (better yet, kidnapping him) is more dangerous to you only.

>>765906
>Killing him is more dangerous to your hive, keeping him alive (better yet, kidnapping him) is more dangerous to you only.

And the who-knows-how-many AIs, fully sentient RS AIs, he'll go on to create and subjugate and twist in the future. You heard him talk about making this one AI of his, creating, brainwashing and killing several generations in turn. He described it as wanting to cooperate, but so too do a Predator's slaves with their master.

Consider, too, what other projects the ASE must be running, what they're likely doing to dozens or hundreds of unknown, imprisoned subjects. They want Raush's research to help them continue doing even more terrible things. He even outright stated that they intend to try and recreate Cycle 3119, and what do you think that will involve?

Call up the Glitcher and let his trillion friends decide. Simple majority vote. It's their lives on the line, after all, and they've got an appalling amount of experience with decisions very much like this one.

>>765953
Interesting idea. Would Glitcher even respond, though? He's hiding and has no camera to look through. Unless the laptop has a webcam?

I don't know how kidnapping is supposed to be a better choice. It is the hardest option by far, not least because it involves taking an unconscious person through the water and somehow preventing them from drowning, and it is also the option most likely to result in catastrophic mission failure where you end up caught and worse off than before.

If you don't have the stomach for murder, the best you are going to get is tying him up and hiding him.

>>765968
Well if there's a spot past the water where we can leave him tied up, that'd work a little better than leaving him lying unconscious right here. It'd take longer for the ASE to find him and he won't be able to sound the alarm as soon as he wakes up.

>>765957
You don't need a camera to explain a moral dilemma. Given that the laptop contains the ripened fruit of years of research into inserting data into the ring shell, surely there's something which could be readily adapted to send and receive plain text?

>>766003
Yes, but I mean, what evidence would Glitcher have that it's even Likol at the keyboard? Or that he's not being forced to do it somehow? I'll admit the latter is unlikely.

>>766010
If nothing else, "hey glitcher it's likol I am running away with the cai blocks and I had to choke out a guy and can't decide what to do with him now" is probably unexpected enough to have a decent chance of not being ignored.

>>766053
Do I have to point out the meta discussion of "ask the CAI's opinion" literally being "do something weird and complicated to ask the readers the exact same question again in the next post"?

1/10 Likol 2016/12/15(Thu)10:45 No. 766073 ID: bfb318
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I run to the laptop and ask glitcher whether I should kill Raush. He must be watching, and although there's no webcam, there is a microphone, and possibly enough personal data to know who's machine he's been plugged into. Even so, even as I say I'm Likol, there's no response at all. His persistent silence is probably for the best. Except that now I have to decide.

I don't kill him. I certainly don't have the means to kidnap him. I'll take his laptop to remove what he's done the last few days, although he's retained the ideas and concepts. He'll still be able to recreate what's been done over some time even if it is a setback, but even so, I'm not ready to murder over this for tentative reasons.

There aren't many places to hide him well, but there is at least a small nook where he won't be in plain sight to someone looking in. I'm mostly counting on the idea that it should be a long while before anyone checks in here.

I take off his coat and pat him down after I make sure he's breathing again. I'll take the coat itself, plus anything useful I find inside. That amounts to some money and a gun with 8 bullets inside, and a spare pack with 16 more. It's not a gun I can operate effectively, but it'll do if I get stared down by a dangerous wild animal. I won't bother with his keys or his phone.

Once I cut off a portion of laundry rope, I end up tieing him up and against a screw ring that I glue heavily on the rock. Then I use one of my spare shirts delivered to gag him. It's not a great setup, but it should hold someone like him. I write a note to leave in his undercoat clothing, apologizing for assaulting him. It wasn't personal, it just had to be done to make the escape that I am doing because I won't stand by to let the AI get killed off.

2/10 Likol 2016/12/15(Thu)10:45 No. 766074 ID: bfb318
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As for my own pack, aside from the map and compass, it has my own small laptop, and a pair of glasses. I turn both laptops off.

I roll all of the electronics into all of the clothes and the coat I've got, and stuff all of that, plus my bag, into a garbage bag. Then I layer that bag into a couple more bags for durability. These bags should be closed up tight enough to be waterproof, but just to be safe, I glue off each end of every bag to be safe.

It's quick but careful work. I double check that I didn't do something amazingly stupid like forget the CAI blocks. They are put in a safe spot, all things considered. Still, I'm almost imagining noises and a bad fate. I could easily be making a careless mistake.

Considering this whole thing might be the stupidest thing I've done in my life, it's almost silly to be so careful - but if I'm going to do this, I may as well do it as right as I can.

>I wonder if the ASE decided they want to use him as a weapon? Heck, I'm not sure why Vanski didn't try to do that.
A CAI in general is a monumental virtual weapon, and the illegal use of one would attract hard attention. Even worse than having nuclear capabilities, although I'm not sure how much of that is because of how serious a CAI would really be compared to nukes, and how much is just that the galactic powers that be are more or less accustomed with the idea of people having nukes, not CAIs.

3/10 Likol 2016/12/15(Thu)10:46 No. 766076 ID: bfb318
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I'd like to take in the sight of my home one last time, but all I can look at is this tiny alcove. I'll feel more at home in the jungle.

4/10 Likol 2016/12/15(Thu)10:46 No. 766077 ID: bfb318
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I start breathing hard to collect air while eating what food was left here and taking off my shirt since it's just going to get soaked. Then I jump down and turn on the flashlight. The water is a bit fast for my liking, and the river itself a bit thin, but it's an old enough river by the looks of it to smooth out any jagged rocks. I'm able to hop along safely as I sink repeatedly.

5/10 Likol 2016/12/15(Thu)10:47 No. 766078 ID: bfb318
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The river widens out and the water slows down significantly, signifying the open area our past scouting revealed. I see netting at the end where it narrows back into a faster stream. Maybe I know Vanski better than I thought. I wonder just how fast he's able to construct stuff like this since this 'plan', if I could call it that, could not have foresaw me going this route, necessarily. Then it occurs to me he might have built nets in a lot of areas just in case an arkot does drop something valuable in water outlets like in landmark 12.

Then I begin to wonder how it allows larger fish to pass through like this, but I need to stop wondering about the engineering work done on the river network.

There's nothing to do now but to pop my head out.

6/10 Likol 2016/12/15(Thu)10:47 No. 766079 ID: bfb318
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I shut my eyes as I rise up. I don't know why, but I feel dizzy. It must be the heaviness of the situation coming in as I realize I'm going to be jumping up over the water line to be greeted with a dozen guns to my face, and even more judgmental gazes looking at how dumb I am.

7/10 Likol 2016/12/15(Thu)10:47 No. 766080 ID: bfb318
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And...

...... nothing?!

I can't even assume there's a troop of soldiers at the exit, because the caverns open up behind me as well as in front, and there's no reason to not just capture me here. This makes no sense.

There's just no way Vanski is letting me run off out of the kindness of his heart. He has a game. He trusts me to not lose or damage the CAI. He might even trust me not to hand it over to the authorities.

I have no idea why I did this when I was so sure it wouldn't work, but I did. I must really be desperate.

There's no time to waste. I should be thinking more about how to best leave the spire, but I'm out of thoughts. I don't even know what to believe, now, if Vanski is letting me leave like this.

8/10 Likol 2016/12/15(Thu)10:48 No. 766081 ID: bfb318
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Somewhere along the line, I dry off as best as I can before I reach a cave mouth. I should have asked for a towel, but it's too late now. There's just a steep slope down rather than a sheer cliff, so I won't need to test how rusty I am at mountain climbing. I already hear multiple noises in the jungle that belong to things that pose a threat if I'm not careful.

I still can't believe I'm being allowed to leave. It's absurd.

9/10 Likol 2016/12/15(Thu)10:48 No. 766082 ID: bfb318
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Going forward is still less scary to me than going back down to the facility, now.

hype as fuck

Good luck.

Best of luck, Likol. You are going to need it.

>>766083
So that's how the "Untameable Needles" look from on high...