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95973 No. 95973 ID: a107fd

Wiki: http://tgchan.org/wiki/Metyelilu's_Revenge
Thread: http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/673811.html

Pictured are Flint Eastbold (#12) and Morgan Manslayer (#2).
Expand all images
No. 95974 ID: a107fd

Not pictured are the other ten 'bold zealots, as yet unspecified! Having been recruited from a demographic of rich kids with too much free time, each will surely have gained basic proficiency with all the standard weapons of war, and minimum acceptable courtly graces. That leaves:
1) Name. Maybe the one they were born with; more likely, one their new goddess can remember.
2) Trade skill. How did their family become rich?
3) Occult skill. You don't get this deep in a cult without some weird hobbies.
4) Reason for loyalty. Why didn't they recant and surrender?
5) Fighting Style. Choose from the following list:
Heart of the Mire (magic acid rays!)
Soul of the Mountain (magic ice rays!)
Unarmed Strike
Catch Off-Guard
Combat Reflexes
Fleet of Foot
Mounted Combat (requires riding as trade skill)
Nimble Moves
Point-Blank Shot
Rapid Reload
Shield Bash
Throw Anything

Alchemy can be taken as an occult skill OR a trade skill... or even both, for a special bonus.

If you picked one of those first four fighting style options, you're a martial artist, so Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Swim are valid occult skills. Otherwise, it has to be something directly magical, or at least academic.

I'm using a mix of Pathfinder and GURPS, so feel free to describe highly specialized or otherwise nonstandard skills.

If more than ten appropriate profiles are suggested, the extras will still be canon, having stayed behind as sleeper agents.
No. 95981 ID: a21c7b

What are occult skills?
No. 95986 ID: 12b273

Oh man, we get to make up our own cultists?

1) Ivana Tomewright

Metyelilu only remembers her name by thinking of it as "I wanna". (See 4).

2) Daddy ran the paper mills. Stationary Baron. Ivana is probably familiar with the theory of the craft, but it's not as if she ever was responsible for running anything, or had to work for a living.

3) Occult origami, lending itself to a better than usual understanding of multidimensional and folded spaces. (Although she's not currently enough of a mage to apply that understanding in a significant way).

4) Ivana is, quite simply, a spoiled brat. She wants the best things in life, she deserves them, and she's currently convinced throwing her lot in with a rising goddess on the ground floor will lead to that.

Those people who came down on them doesn't prove her wrong. She didn't make the wrong choice. Of course she was right. That's why they were jealous, and tried to take it for themselves. This is just a temporary setback. Metyelilu will see her though, were Daddy didn't.

5) Heart of the mire. (Picked up her first acid magic as a bored kid. Who needs scissors to make paper snowflakes and similar sculptures when you can etch them yourself?).
No. 95987 ID: a107fd

Heart of the Mire seems like a particularly apt choice. In addition to Acid Splash, it provides Sift ( http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sift ) at will, which could easily be spun as a subtle tactile space-folding ability, and Grease once per day.

For the skills... if she's out of touch with the chemical practicalities of papermaking itself, that would probably be best represented by Hobby Skill (Origami) and Mathematics (Applied).
No. 95988 ID: 12b273

Ooh, neat. Yes, that works.
No. 95990 ID: fbc59e

Dalieo Dogamori (Dogma, especially given a penchant for 'speeches')
Trade Skill: Riding
Occult: Fortune-telling (any excuse for a speech!)
Loyalty: A perhaps misguided notion that serving Mistress Metyelilu will somehow save the world from destruction.
Fighting style: Mounted Combat
No. 95998 ID: a107fd

Sounds good. Note that fortune-telling, in itself, doesn't provide supernatural insights into the future; it's just the art of opening someone up with leading questions, then wrapping an esoteric context around your educated guess about how things will go (or what the client wants to hear). There isn't necessarily any conscious deception involved, and it can seamlessly incorporate any genuine precognitive powers you later acquire.

You do however need to specify a specialty. Baking bones for the way they crack? Birdwatching? Cards? Crystal gazing? Dream interpretation? Palm-reading? Runestones bouncing on a symbolic map? Lotsa options, mostly just an RP hook.

I'm not planning to give a comprehensive list of them, or even extensive examples, in order to leave as much room as possible for creativity. Anything someone might study or practice for it's own sake, that could then lead them to a deeper interest in the subtle and the supernatural.
No. 96007 ID: fbc59e

Not the bones. Nor the dream thing, that's for sure...
I'm thinking maybe palm reading, that seems like a nice touch, but Bird-watching is really tempting to try and build a bit of an animal theme with the guy.
No. 96047 ID: a107fd

15 lb - Blessed Moonsilver Breastplate (40,000 sp materials, 2,000 sp labor, 10,000 sp enchantment; not for sale until she finds something better)
35 lb - Bag of Holding of the third standard variety (74,000 sp; exodimensional storage for cargo weighing up to half a ton, or bulking 1125 gallons)
1 lb - Quickchange Cloak (approx. 15,000 sp; stores three complete disguises, swapped out on command)
0.02 lb - Gold Coin x1 (20 sp)

Note that Metyelilu's power to step through Ether or the Logos can only carry herself and exactly 50 pounds of inanimate objects. If she's bringing her armor and the bag, everything else needs to go in the bag (where it won't count as encumbrance) or stay behind. This is only likely to be a noticeable problem under extreme time pressure, or when she wants to abscond with something ill-suited to exodimensional storage, such as a Portable Hole or inactive Tesseract Golem. Standardized bags of holding are extremely reliable and low-maintenance under most conditions, and retain value well in the secondary market, but fully stabilized exodimensional space is still, ultimately, a contradiction in terms. Sufficient mistreatment will void the manufacturer's warranty, destroy any contents, and do unpleasant things to local Euclidean geometry, with a minimum safe distance measured in hundreds of yards.

>you need money first.

She has money. Not vast riches, but someone could walk into a typical dining establishment, plunk that one gold coin down on the bar, eat a whole roast chicken plus some spicy vegetables, wash it down with a gallon of coarse plum wine, leave a generous tip for the waitstaff, and then get nineteen silver back as the change without any artful manipulation whatsoever.

Feel free to ask about any odd terms. For example, "Chrysomelkarcalchaxis" is a loose phonetic approximation of the original High Draconic name, which can be traced back to onomatopoeia of a distant electrical storm. The only way for a typical mammalian voicebox to pronounce the name correctly involves skilled accompaniment by kettledrums. Fortunately, telepathy faces no such anatomical complication.
No. 96246 ID: a107fd

0:the Hollow Pillar Domains: Charm Death Strength Symbol: polished stone hand
1:the Storm Forge Domains: Artifice Nobility Weather Symbol: lightning-struck tower
2:the Blood Mire Domains: Earth Plant War Symbol: grain encircled by a blade
3:the Green Breath Domains: Air Repose Travel Symbol: pointed S-curve with a central pivot
4:the Burning Hate Domains: Darkness Healing Glory Sun Symbol: golden face, scowling, with radial spikes
5:the Scaled Ocean Domains: Destruction Magic Water Symbol: black/blue/green/red/white pentagram
6: serpenthearth Domains: Community Knowledge Fire Symbol: snake or hexagram around a burning egg
7:the Unbroken Word Domains: Protection Luck Rune Symbol: colorless geodesic dome or hollow web
8:the Horned Queen Domains: Animal Madness Trickery Symbol: stylized spider: white mouth, raised pedipalps
8:the Horned Queen Domains: Liberation Animal Trickery Symbol: stylized rabbit/elf head with a fractal hat
No. 96885 ID: a107fd

Working on a big complicated update, the reveal of some key stuff about how unreliable a narrator Metyelilu really is.
No. 98931 ID: a107fd

Feel free to discuss my other quests in this thread as well.
No. 98973 ID: a107fd

>On a side note, is the quest ending soon with return to the surface? Or merely to resupply? Not sure what's going on here.

The quest could possibly be close to ending, but probably not the way you'd prefer it to.

These goblins, and their allies from the Church of Orcus, are planning to get you all blackout drunk and chain you to that big pillar for some manner of ritual sacrifice. Mr. Styx got this dead-end posting because of that one time when he was torturing somebody, who he didn't realize had severe hemophilia, and then the victim died way ahead of schedule. Thus, the health questions.
No. 99117 ID: 02422f

>rolled 6, 6, 5 = 17
Hahaha, oh my goodness, I have the worst rolls in this game.

Whisper-web is going to misfire and leave us shouting across the cavern, or my familiar is going to accidentally trip while taking off and knock me out. Who knows!
No. 99128 ID: a107fd

Rolls are for your own actions. Technically, a familiar is an allied NPC, so I roll (behind the screen), unless you're persuading them to do something unreasonable, or communicating something likely to be misunderstood. Speaking of language barriers... I'm assuming Marijke is fluent and at least semi-literate in Humish, more formally known as Low Draconic, but she might reasonably know other languages. Does she? Which ones, how well?

Any questions about the larger continuity?
No. 99133 ID: 3d2d5f

Hmm. Not sure! I hadn't sketched out a backstory much past character disposition, and which languages she might know depends on the setting.

Humish makes sense, and basic literacy does seem a requirement for anyone motivated by money. Given her faith and motivation, if there's a standard trade language, that would make sense for her to know.
No. 99175 ID: a107fd

Well, that depends who you're trading with. Along rivers, coasts, and major roads Humish works well enough, but if you're cutting deals with dryads and naiads and speleids a little further off the beaten path, the five elemental languages would be more relevant. Out in the badlands, orcish intertribal trade pidgin. In dark places deep under the earth, Quenyl has no spoken form, just ideograms and sign language best performed by pairs of three-fingered hands sharing an elbow.
No. 99197 ID: 02422f

I think the elemental languages would make the most sense. It would have been in character for her to scrounge around off the beaten path, and those seem appropriate creatures for a witch to deal with.

Orcish badlands and the deep would have been too far from the comforts of civilization for her. At least until she found herself hard pressed enough to risk a trip to our current circumstances.
No. 99202 ID: a107fd

Which of the five (Flame, Forest, Rock, Sea, and Sky), to what fluency? Scale goes 0-3, and 2 is enough to avoid "my hovercraft is full of eels"-level errors. Spoken and written tracked separately.

Forest-tongue would be the obvious one for somebody who gathers their own herbs without stepping on the toes of tree-spirits and fae, but flametongue covers sapient hearth-fires (e.g. Calcifer from Howl's Moving Castle), and so on from there.
No. 99204 ID: 02422f

>reasonable roll on a post that does basically nothing
>poor roll when I actually try to cast something
Of course.
No. 99205 ID: a107fd

>rolling for an action in the post where you initially declare it, clarifications aside
You're welcome.
No. 99208 ID: 02422f

Oh thank goodness, I'm not chocking on ten thousand spiders. (I was hoping it would work that way, but I wasn't confident).

It is seriously amusing how much I've been flipping between awesome failures and successes.

Uhhh. Let's say speaking: forest 3, flame 2, sea 2, rock 1, sky 1. And written one level lower for all. (So 2 1 1 0 0). Based off estimates of accessibility to each, and assuming the elemental languages have some things in common.
No. 99218 ID: a107fd

Actually, I checked, it's only about fifteen hundred spiders, swarming across ten contiguous 3' diameter hexes. Also, the only two things in the outpost that can damage a swarm effectively are flasks of greekfire, and indiscriminate application of the raw energy of death, so use the next three minutes wisely.

Linguistic loadout seems reasonable, although complete illiteracy in Rocktongue is a little odd. It'd be more common to communicate with earth elementals through writing than speech.
No. 99225 ID: 02422f

Let's swap the spoken rock 1 for a written rock 1, then.
No. 99232 ID: f461c5

I must say, I sincerely believe this may be the most fun I have had in quite some time. It also looks like I am going to have to keep most of my spells for healing.
No. 99233 ID: a107fd

>the most fun I have had in quite some time.
High praise indeed! I thank you.
>It also looks like I am going to have to keep most of my spells for healing.
Preventing damage tends to work better than reversing it, particularly when Nico's healing magic is so limited in application.
No. 99234 ID: f461c5

I agree, but one of us already needs critical wound treatment and I expect that to be a continuing theme.

Also I cant wait for the opportunity to talk to a snail by flailing one's arms around.
No. 99243 ID: a107fd

See if you can guess the mechanical effects of Mesifin Styx's dying curse.
No. 99244 ID: f461c5

I may be about to find out.
If it doesnt outright mute Nico, and its affects arent immediately obvious, I would imagine it to be some form of inverse Blistering Invective, damaging him when he insults someone.

All that aside I find the idea of him being mute interesting. The actor becomes a mime, perhaps?
Fuck this is cool stuff.
No. 99245 ID: 3d2d5f

Woo, didn't critical fail trying to heal Than.

Now we just need to patch up, maybe recruit the snail (although it probably can't keep up) and flee.

...and maybe loot the place on the way out.
No. 99249 ID: f461c5

Then again if it merely damages him, the actor that continues his speech despite the blood falling from his lips, never baring a grimace save for in appropriate moments...
No. 99250 ID: f461c5

Its looting the place that seems the least wonderful idea to me. Conan we are not, and mucking with dark god's shrines and all that rarely ends well.
Nico and Marijke should have some token protection, at least, and its not even that far out of theme for their particular patrons; acquisitions are the right of the victor and all gods need fear the king, but there is still a risk to it.

But, I mean, Nico already got cursed once today and there are probably arcane secrets in there so who gives a flying fricassee.
No. 99251 ID: a075ba

The shrine is surely just one small part of the settlement! I'd assume there must be some lucre not concentrated by dark gods ripe for the taking.
No. 99257 ID: a107fd

>damaging [Nico] when he insults someone
Nope. Orcus isn't really an 'eye for an eye,' proportional-response sort of god.

I haven't been describing scenery or the personal equipment of your opponents all that much, partly to keep the momentum going, but also partly because you haven't asked. Please feel free to specify that you're examining some object, creature, or room in more detail, or searching for something specific, or pacing out distances and adding thus-explored areas to a map (requires mapping kit, naturally), checking for and following tracks, or anything like that.
No. 99268 ID: a107fd

>I meant to go the lofty, discreetly arrogant hero path, not the paladin path, since it's a more gritty setting and paladin path will probably get me killed.
A rather less gritty setting for those lucky few who've got magical healing tingling inside their fingertips. To them, death is little more than an inconvenience unless aggravated by decay, mutilation, or specialized magic. Fighters don't get that at all, except maybe through items, while barbarians and rangers don't get much. Also, deferring your self-interest to the distant future and showing mercy out of thinly-veiled contempt is quite enough to qualify as a paladin under http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackAndGrayMorality
No. 99276 ID: 4201a2

That's fine. As long as I don't have to subscribe to the typical paladin code of http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HonorBeforeReason

I would like to know exactly what Garaile is carrying. I assumed I lost the axe. Do I still have a shield?
No. 99278 ID: a107fd

>paladin code
I'm not going to pull strings on an OOC level to set up sadistic dillemmas, although some NPCs might concievably have motivation to do so, within the scope of their IC resources. I'm also not going to yank oath-linked powers for any situation where you seem to have made a good-faith effort to figure out (and follow through on) the right course of action, even if I disagree on the specifics, although my tolerance for elaborately-rationalized shenanigans may be more limited.
Kamlyss is offering to return the axe and shield.
No. 99283 ID: a075ba

Do we really want to take the surviving cultists as slaves?

On the one hand, sure, they're labor we can use. On the other hand, they're a liability that tried to kill us once, probably resents and/or hates us now, and will probably run ot turn on us as soon as they're given the opportunity.
No. 99289 ID: a107fd

The acolytes didn't seem to get along all that well with their now-deceased manager, and retreated rather than attempt violence in his defense. From a modern legal standpoint, they were certainly accomplices to the kidnapping and attempted murder, but that's not exactly the same as personally trying to kill you on their own initiative. It's completely up in the air whether they hate you now. I've got a whole mess of tables and circumstantial modifiers to figure it out, which I haven't even rolled yet. How you treat them (friend? hireling? refugee? minion? hostage? livestock?) will be a significant factor.

As for asset value to balance the liability, Marijke already got an Endure Elements from one of them. They presumably have more utilitarian or healing spells, and God only knows what else.
No. 99293 ID: 4201a2

Here's an example of what I mean: If Necromancer Joe lobs a deathbolt at Innocent Civilian Bob, Garaile is not going to jump in front of the deathbolt and die in hopes it gives Bob a chance to run away. Garaile will just fight Joe even harder for killing another innocent. After all, sacrificing oneself to save Bob but leaving Joe alive isn't really saving Bob, and it leaves Joe free to commit more murders in the future. Bob is certainly not going to be able to kill Joe. If an innocent has to be sacrificed to slay the serial killer, then it's worth it in Garaile's eyes, because it is saving all the future victims. It would suck to get suddenly cut off from divine power because the gods are naïvely shortsighted.

Also, Garaile will accept the axe and shield, check that they're still in good shape, and refit that axe belt loop so the axe no longer falls out at inconvenient times.
No. 99295 ID: a075ba

Fair points. I was really only thinking enslaving one's enemies isn't necessarily very reliable or safe, but depending on their actual motivations, useful npcs can be useful npcs.
No. 99296 ID: a107fd

Garaile is likely far more capable of tanking the deathbolt and staying functional than Civilian Bob would be, but, yeah, charging in to end the threat ASAP rather than trying to play goalie in a game of rocket tag is fine. If you're using Civilian Bob as a distraction, or tactical cover, on the other hand, that's not acceptable. If Necromancer Joe's spell leaves Civilian Bob agonizingly alive, covered in some sort of horrid balefire, as a distraction while the villain beats a hasty retreat... I could see arguments either way, so I'd probably only ding you for being a huge dick somehow. Riding Bob's flaming corpse like a snowboard for a speed boost in the pursuit, that kind of thing. The trolley problem is bullshit, IMO.

Important bit is, when you make some hard decision like that, don't sweep the downside under the rug. Once the crisis is over, go back, cop to your mistakes, try to make it right. Speaking of which, remember that time Garaile beat Nick upside the head with the physical embodiment of his worst fear and left him for dead, instead of helping him stop being on fire the safe, easy way? And there was a big pool of potable water in the very next room?

>Garaile will accept the axe and shield, check that they're still in good shape, and refit that axe belt loop

That should probably go in the actual quest thread.
No. 99304 ID: 4201a2

>remember that time Garaile beat Nick upside the head with the physical embodiment of his worst fear and left him for dead, instead of helping him stop being on fire the safe, easy way? And there was a big pool of potable water in the very next room?
In my own defense, Garaile could not possibly have known any of these things, especially not that there'd be a linked oasis system running through the hell dungeon. And in an admittedly metagaming way, I didn't want to waste what very well could have been the only potable water in the whole place on Sgt. Nick's player who was already changing his mind about playing and whom you had lit on fire for not figuring out how to roll dice fast enough.

Would you prefer I break off from the party to go rescue him alone? I highly doubt his player is going to come back and play him.
No. 99316 ID: a075ba

Honestly, more than a moral character dilemma, I had interpreted what befell Nick as a warning about the tone and level of forgiveness to expect in the game.

Bad luck with a spell miscast, questionable decision to try and put self out with drinking water, questionable decision to try smacking him with a weapon, whups time to reroll. (Although said strategically questionable decisions are defensible as role-playing).

Realistically, if we were going to go back for him, we should have done so when we had the goblin patrol to back us up, and Yevon to gravity control pull him out of the water-trap (although we would have had to persuade the gobos to delay, and likely would have had to fight the rats). By now, after a night alone in the water, I'm not sure how we can reasonably expect him not to have drown, suffered a fear induced heart attack, been killed by the rats we were fleeing from, or dead to hypothermia (well, barring being sustained by magic).

While we're on the subject, I'll establish that Marijke isn't terribly broken up over her role in what happened. She lit him on fire by accident, and it's not as if she could have chosen to just sit there and choke to death instead. It's not her fault he was knocked into the water, or that they were forced to flee. It was bad luck, or perhaps it was his fate. She would have helped if she could but... she knew she could see people die down here. (I wouldn't say she's a bad person, but well, she's not a great one either).
No. 99328 ID: a107fd

From a narativist perspective, a warning shot, yeah. You could, however, have rescued him about as easily as from any 5' deep swimming pool, if anyone had bothered to make the attempt. If the player had stayed involved and generated a new character quickly, it could have been a nice demonstration of the 'multiball' rule. There'd be some disease risk, due to the whole corpse-contaminant thing, but Garaile is now a third level paladin and thus immune to mundane disease, and for everyone else it's at least treatable.

If Nick somehow calmed down, and maybe shrugged off the backpack, he would probably be able to get out of the pool under his own power. So, now I've got the opportunity to reintroduce him as an NPC nemesis.

>lit on fire for not figuring out how to roll dice fast enough
I rolled for it, behind the screen, to keep things moving. Just didn't get lucky enough.
>Would you prefer I break off from the party to go rescue him alone?
Nah. Mourn the (presumed) dead, fight for the living.
No. 99329 ID: a075ba

>You could, however, have rescued him about as easily as from any 5' deep swimming pool, if anyone had bothered to make the attempt.
Really? I thought the whole problem was that the water surface was 5' down from ground level, so there was a sizable lip to get a body over, without a good place for someone who went down to stand. Plus current. Did I get my mental image wrong?
No. 99331 ID: 4201a2

Plus the flubbed waterspout spell dragging him down, the armor, corpse, and supplies lying on top of him weighing him down, the rat swarm on our heels, and the fact that the only rope would have taken several minutes to retrieve.

>third level paladin
Sweet, I thought I'd only be level 2! Does this mean Garaile can detect / smite / lay on hands?
No. 99334 ID: a107fd

>does her faith have a moral stance on slavery?
That's entirely up to you. Brem Marst is originally from the Exalted setting, founder of The Guild, which is sort of an iron-age fantasy Walmart, with guys like Al Capone and Walter White as district managers. If there were a big organized Church of Brem Marst, it would make about as much sense for them to take a moral stance against drugs and slavery as for the Catholic Church to reject fish and wine.

Marijke is not part of a big organized church. She's got memories of her mentor's advice, and her own conscience, and a parrot that can't even really talk yet. Witches get stereotyped as evil because, if they decide to be selfish, there's not much holding them back.
No. 99336 ID: a107fd

Flubbed waterspout currents were only applying about five pounds of force total, across his entire body, and stopped shortly after Marijke stopped concentrating on them. Corpse was laying next to him, not weighting down except in some abstract psychological sense. Backpack could have been unfastened easily enough if he was lucid and cooperative, or at least catatonic and limp. Rope would not be necessary for such a short distance, particularly with two or three people cooperating.

> detect / smite / lay on hands?
Don't get caught up in thinking of those as discreet, overt, supernatural powers, just say what you're trying to achieve, what wickedness you're trying to identify and extirpate. That being said... yes, he's also immune to fear, and most diseases.

>mental image wrong
Yes. Water was nearly level with the lip, up above the floor, and then only five feet deep starting from there. Enough to present some risk of drowning, certainly, which would put breath-independent undead at great tactical advantage, but still basically a pool, not a flooded oubliette. The bottom of the pool was only two feet below the larger room's floor.
No. 99337 ID: e47e93

Well, I just found this. Oops. Know anything Than can use being a whatever she is now? I'm not so great at this RPGing thing but I'll try my best.
No. 99344 ID: 4201a2
File 146129335547.jpg - (49.17KB , 262x262 , TFC04-030.jpg )

>everyone is disgusted by Garaile's ear necklace
I know it's upsetting to look at, but trust me: by the time it's finished, there will be a lot more ears on it.
No. 99345 ID: a107fd

See, in a less grim campaign, I'd knock out your paladin powers just for making a necklace of ears at all. I'm not going to, because from a certain perspective it shows respect for the fallen foe, and from a completely different perspective it's humorous.
No. 99346 ID: 4201a2

Nonsense. There's nothing un-paladin-y about keeping grisly trophies of the vile evils you slay as proof of your crusade of righteousness. It's not intended to show respect, it's to sow fear into the hearts of evildoers. I'm playing like a 5e Oath of Vengeance paladin.

Plus, what else am I gonna do, just ignore my lower ambition? If taking trophies were enough to become a fallen paladin, then taking the rat head as a trophy at the very beginning, before answering the anger question, should have invalidated becoming a paladin in the first place. I mean, I took one of the two ears from a horrible severed rat head I'd been carrying around anyway. Seems a bit silly for the gods to have such a delayed reaction.
No. 99347 ID: a075ba

OOC, it's not the organ harvesting that bothers me so much as that Garaile went and mutilated the corpse right in front of the acolytes, after we'd just confirmed, yeah, they did like him. Talk about bad timing. It's a black mark against us if any of them are considering turning on us later. We can't afford to pile up too many of those or we'll probably regret it.
No. 99352 ID: f461c5

If I remember correctly the guild has active slavery concerns but usually treats their slaves fairly well on account of their value.

Doing pretty well so far.

So I was talking to a friend about how fucking badass and interesting this is, from the details to the overall story, and reading the description of the silence curse and its possible removal options to him, and he smiled a huge ass shiteating grin as I finished and said:
#6: The man named Nico Nashville is a cursed man. But he is unique in that he may choose to be another, for a time. Leave the curse, and the personality it is bound to, behind.

And I dont even care if thats possible it just seems cool as fuck to me, being able to use supernaturally potent method acting to take on the identity of a person who is not cursed with silence.

Everything about this game gets my creative juices flowing and it would appear to do the same for my friends.
No. 99357 ID: a107fd

> what else am I gonna do, just ignore my lower ambition?
Higher ambition is the noble, virtuous thing. Lower ambition could be treated as a 'struggling with temptation' sort of deal. http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2015-09-29 Doesn't have to be, but that IS an option.

Paladins absolutely can do the intimidation thing, even in really ugly ways. Sometimes that's the best option, to avoid needless violence. (c.f. http://www.goblinscomic.org/05142008/ and http://www.goblinscomic.org/05152008/) The tricky part is, Sir Garaile's higher ambition is for fame and renown, not appalling infamy. Gotta be careful about who you alienate.

> treats their slaves fairly well on account of their value
They're rational about it, yeah, but that "fairly well" includes systematic torture intended to break the will to resist, then selling incorrigible types to soul-devouring abominations from outside conventional reality, and buying back the resultant meat puppets as routinely as swapping out empty propane tanks.

>Leave the curse, and the personality it is bound to, behind.
The curse is bound to identity, but also to speech. For best results you'd want to emulate someone specific, then perform a lot of grisly experimental surgery to swap out the tongue, vocal chords, etc. Interesting idea from an occult research standpoint, probably not worth seriously considering unless more conventional options fall through AND Nico's got some close blood relative who really deserves it.

Recruitment's still open, though at this point they'd probably have to be introduced in thread 2.
No. 99366 ID: e47e93

You should have gone crazier if you wanted to be THAT soldier.
No. 99367 ID: f461c5

>Occult research standpoint
>Occult research
>Nico's high ambition

Fffffffwelp I think I know what Nico's gonna be doing with his next reasonable allotment of free time.
No. 99371 ID: a107fd

Given the previous issue with mental images about the pool, I feel like I really should more thoroughly address what an utterly terrible idea this is, by clarifying the difference between a 'villain' who can realistically be thwarted and an 'orbital doom cannon' where the only real option is to avoid it's direct attention.

I've got a stat block in front of me for Orcus. He's CR 35. For those of you more familiar with LotR than D&D 3.x/Pathfinder, 'mere mortals' usually have CR between 0 and 6, Sauron is probably around CR 13, and it's a logarithmic scale: two guys of CR (N) versus one guy of CR (N+2) is a fair fight, where cleverness, type advantage, and/or luck could easily swing the outcome either way. A six-point CR difference is something like Miyamoto Musashi riding a half-dragon owlbear into an orphanage, or Sauron tearing down the Last Alliance of Men and Elves. Yes, he lost that one despite the overwhelming advantage in personal power; consider the book of Ecclesiastes, chapter 9, verse 11.

You guys versus Orcus at this point, even in the social arena, is an almost-certainly-unwinnable matchup raised to the fifth power. On top of which, asking for help with his own priest's death-curse is like a cockroach suing a homeowner for setting out bug traps.
No. 99375 ID: a075ba

For clarity, I was nitpicking the metaphor, not the relative power levels of an adventurer to the dark god, nor the degree to which poking him even as an endgame level endeavor would be a bad idea.
No. 99376 ID: a107fd

I've got no objection to it as an endgame goal. If I thought it shouldn't be possible, there wouldn't even BE a stat block. It's just, y'know, a long way off yet.
No. 99386 ID: f461c5


Honestly Nico is more interested in the possibilities of hunting down Styx's soul and doing fun and enlightening things to him until he can find a way to twist the curse into more of an advantage.

At the moment he is trying to determine whether he is all that mad about it anyway; sure, he *likes* talking, but being afflicted by a thaumaturgically unique and interesting death curse is basically a major fulfillment of his primary ambition anyway. Like knowledge sims being scared untill they pee themselves; inconvenient but an interesting experience. At this point he just really hopes the affect continues when he clips the end of his tongue off with a red hot snips from his surgery bag later. Having a little bit of meat that he can throw as its own silence affect would be cool.

So I have been meaning to ask, will the game continue after the characters get up to the surface, or is it going to be an episodal thing with one post spared for out-of-dungeon down time and straight back in?
No. 99388 ID: a107fd

>Will the game continue after the characters get up to the surface?
Yes. Here's thread 2:
No. 99418 ID: a107fd

I would like to clarify that Eswic is not some sort of author-avatar good-advice-fairy, but rather, currently operating under the assumption that you are, more or less, a crew of pirates without a ship. The validity of her organizational advice is up to you to determine, but she's got no angle in everybody sitting around indecisive until the next random adventure hook shows up to eat somebody's face.
No. 99421 ID: 3d2d5f

It's the parrot, isn't it. That's why she thinks we're pirates.
No. 99444 ID: a107fd

That's not the only reason, but I can't deny it was a factor.
No. 99513 ID: a075ba

>Not since I was just a girl, in Passholdt, fleeing Three-Faced Philista's zealots
Lore check! Do our characters recognize or know anything about that place-name, or that person?
No. 99524 ID: a107fd

If you were in Rook's Vineyard and needed something unusual special-ordered from the nearest big city, Passholdt was that city. Gateway to the Western Desert, and one of the few places where orcs and elves share a border without constant violence. Major smelting and metalworking industry there, of which Burning Philista is the local patron goddess, though she's never referred to as "three-faced."
No. 99541 ID: a107fd

Hello, I'm JamesLeng's wife / open polyamory partner (hence the shared address). I've been following his threads, and I threw together most of the art for Metyilelu's revenge (...which is most of what's kept slowing it down actually...) and Please Do Not [T]ake These Organs thread 2's title image. (For anyone who is still curious about Metyilelu's Revenge, it's sort of been in limbo, but it's not necessarily done forever either, as I understand it.) Basically, I've been following these two quests behind the scenes a bit.

Although I am privy to some of JamesLeng's creative process, I don't know any of the behind-the-scenes mechanical notes of Please Do Not [T]ake These Organs, and will be doing my best to participate as would a random person- following the same rules, and if I go inactive for too long he'll decide what happens to my character, same as usual. Also, I generally prefer to adhere to simulationism.

However, if my presence/character is in any way awkward or unconducive to a fun quest, I would be happy to adjust my character or even to back out, as I have trouble juggling things and getting anything done at all sometimes; my main weakness tends to be taking too long with stuff. And rambling, probably.

So, nice to meet you all, and I hope to have fun together!
No. 99542 ID: a075ba

Oh, haha, I didn't even notice the shared ID.

You're plenty welcome as far as I'm concerned. Although it occurs to me, the disadvantage of a construct type character might be the same healing spells won't work on you. Someone might need to prepare mending.

Like your pixel art, by the way.
No. 99546 ID: f461c5

SOrry I havent been too active, I have had a rough few weeks. Will try to be on more often.

The more the merrier as near as I am concerned. Been gently plugging the quest in the IRC every once in a while in hopes of getting more people interested. Dont know if thats a good or bad idea, actually, seems we have a fairly stable group going.
No. 99551 ID: e47e93

I don't know what i should be doing
No. 99552 ID: a075ba

You've got a week of downtime...

Maybe making arrows? Trying to get to know one or more of your companions? (The truth / lie detection might be handy there). Maybe trying to learn something, or practice a skill that would help with purifying spirits? (Maybe one of the acolytes knows something)?

(Went back to check stats before offering advice, and wow, I totally forgot Than's weakness was temporary incantation if someone dies too close to her).
No. 99554 ID: 4201a2

Had the realization, looking at the wiki page, that Nico's specialization, ambitions, and innate ability, combined with this silence curse, pretty much all point straight to some kind of Magic Mime prestige class. Being able to create quasi-real invisible illusions with purely somatic components via bluff/act checks would be a pretty awesome way to resolve what would otherwise be a severe handicap for a bluff specialist.

He wouldn't even necessarily have to wear silly/horrifying makeup. Just look at the Final Fantasy mimes. Pure style.
No. 99560 ID: a107fd

Eadric the Parrot's current spoken-language skills, end of day 3:
Flametongue 2, seatongue 2, rocktongue 1, skytongue 1, forest-tongue 0, low draconic 0. Progress toward low draconic level 1: 18%
Reading and writing are harder to assess. Poor penmanship may be at least partly due to eye position and insufficiently prehensile limbs.
No. 99604 ID: f461c5
File 146230299271.jpg - (174.53KB , 721x1000 , Ff6_gogo.jpg )

OK, yeah, thats swag as hell, and definitely fits Nico's costuming fetish. Going to have to work on that. Ideally, some form of silent communication would help, like developing a magical sign language that autotranslates itself to the viewer, and he can certainly be a great boon to the party stealth so long as the whole party can fit into a ten foot radius.

These are really good ideas, and it occurred to me that Than can actually study the body and the strange stuff it does when casting/under the affect of a spell, potentially learn to expand her supernatural vision to detecting magical auras, or at least to identify spell affects at a glance.
No. 99605 ID: a107fd

How fluent is Sir Garaile in spoken Seatongue, on that zero-to-three scale?
No. 99606 ID: a075ba

Could I ask for clarification on the use of the Friendship Curse and Demand Gift spells?

Does the curse have a time limit, or does it persist until someone goes through the trouble of breaking it? Does the gift demanded have to be a physical object? (Ie, can something like "passage" or "permission" or "hospitality" be demanded). Does the caster get to specify the gift? What happens after the gift is given? (Does the target instantly realize they were tricked / compelled and likely get upset over it).

...I completely forgot to try and research communication spells. Oh well.
No. 99607 ID: a107fd
File 146231248773.png - (662.02KB , 3000x4100 , CharacterModel.png )

If Garaille has unusual joints and fluency in seatongue, he could have some sort of aquatic lineage/relatives. Like abolethsmermaids or sahaguin!

Still thinking about what to say, in-character, to Nico's questions about Letkra's origins. She's kind of an expy of some ideas I've been working on for a future comic (and another game I played in once). Here's a WIP character model for said comic (drawn in Paint.NET with the curved line tool, not pixel art), minus some traits that my character in this game doesn't have (like a scorpion tail). In-game she probably has on boots, too, from the default starting equipment.

By the way, to Than's player (I don't know how you prefer to be addressed, but, ID e47e93)- I have a lot of trouble myself figuring out what to do, when there's not something obvious to react to. Generally, I try to come up with something that gives hooks for people to respond to, and not worry too much about doing something silly or weird, just something that gives someone else (other players, or the GM) something to work with.

But I do spend a <i>lot</i> of time going "buhhh" and not posting anything when I otherwise mean to, in every game. In-person games involve some blank stares and hmming and going "uhhh", but in sparkling high-definition realtime glamor (if you'll pardon my sarcasm about it being glamorous; it's not, it's me being dumb usually). So don't worry! Not knowing what to do is just a thing that happens, so it's usually best to just wing it with whatever you can think up.
No. 99614 ID: a107fd

Friendship Curse lasts for a few days; Demand Gift lasts until the object has been successfully transferred. In both cases, when the spell ends, the victim snaps back to having whatever feelings they would have naturally, and does not automatically realize they've been manipulated unless they successfully resisted the spell at the outset. It just "seemed like a good idea at the time," although they might be able to notice uncharacteristic behavior and deduce mind control through subsequent introspective paranoia.

In short, Friendship Curse works just fine as training wheels for Stockholm syndrome. Marijke also gets another free-sample-like effect related to it, due to her specialization in mental influences.
No. 99616 ID: 3d2d5f

>crit success on basically asking "who are you"
...we're going to get an exhaustive history on everything that ever happen to a seagull flock, aren't we.
No. 99618 ID: a107fd

No. You're only going to get the information you actually want, but this mysterious talking bird will keep spilling his guts until you change your approach or something goes wrong.
No. 99621 ID: a075ba

I just went right to what the most amusing result would be if the seagull didn't actually represent some other group. (Most useful outcome in that case might have been a second-hand understanding of the local area from everything we were told).

Thanks for the link by the way, that's interesting game-theory.
No. 99624 ID: 4201a2

>Garaile is a fish person
Interesting idea, and I'd definitely do it if I was playing a neutral character who could be a sharkbarian or something. But, it's not very paladin-y.

I'd say Garaile's been living strictly inland since childhood, so... zero.
No. 99627 ID: a075ba

I don't know why but I'm immensely amused that our decision making process has been structured as pirate politics.
No. 99628 ID: a107fd

Well, I reread "Poison'd: the pirate RPG" recently. And, in the setting, societies tend to break down into Charters (including pirates, but also traveling merchants or mercenaries; a company where everybody owns shares and it's all about profit), Tribes (which are run more like families, with a hierarchy of seniority, even if nobody's actually related by blood, and it's all about reputation or honor), and Drakocrats (where you're either a an adult female True Dragon, or interchangeable parts in a kingdom-shaped machine).
No. 99652 ID: 4201a2

I think I'm going to need to start thinking about what my next character will be when Garaile is inevitably forced into a fight-to-the-death or perform-evil-by-inaction-and-lose-all-powers choice.

The party seems to be leaning heavily towards a chaotic-neutral modus operandi, and it is starting to become difficult to be a paladin. For example, if we all go and visit the very evil hags, and they turn out to be sacrificing innocent people to power their blood cauldron, then Garaile has no other option than fight (and probably die, given their estimated level of power), as it would break paladin code to ignore it. Or if we get to the town and Marijke tries to sell the kobolds back into perhaps even crueler slavery than before, is that evil enough to force Garaile to turn against the party or fall?

Garaile almost fell for taking as a trophy the ear of an evil cultist who sacrificed innocent people to Orcus, and was only allowed to retain paladinhood because "it's a slightly grittier setting" and "it was funny", so I'm very on edge whenever any remotely grey area comes up. I mentioned Garaile having the urge to kill the evil seagull, not because I wanted to, but because I was legitimately afraid if I didn't, then cooperating and liasing with the evil creature would be grounds enough to fall. Then afterward it turns out that if I had killed the evil creature, that would have been a sin and I would have fallen.

Something is going to have to change, or Garaile's days as a paladin are extremely numbered. Seriously. I don't suppose it would be possible to get an effect akin to a Phylactery of Faithfulness?
No. 99653 ID: a075ba

Considering the cauldron was described as using a relatively small volume of blood diluted in a larger volume of water, I wouldn't think it would require the sacrifice of a sentient being to run. You could get away pretty easily just bleeding people. Assuming it even requires a sapient offering.

To me, it would seem like attacking without warning or provocation is more un-paladin-y than not striking down a supposed evil the moment it's encountered. It's a code of conduct, and should be about how you act, not if you're pushing up your kill count at every opportunity. (Especially since Garaile doesn't have a patron that I'm aware of. He's not trying to stick to some deity's dictates, but his own idea of honor and right and wrong).

It also seems to me any paladin code would have to allow for inaction some of the time, or else their orders would die out as newbies threw themselves at every fight they couldn't handle. (Is avoiding the witches any more inaction than not attacking them)? I mean, smoldering with impotent, righteous anger at an overwhelming evil seems reasonable heroic character development.

And yeah, this is a man who mutilated the corpse of a fallen enemy for gory trophies. There's a limit to how upstanding he can be expected to be!

>Or if we get to the town and Marijke tries to sell the kobolds back into perhaps even crueler slavery than before
On my own charter's motivations, Marijke basically stumbled into her aspiration in the first room. She has enough gold to live comfortably for a few years, provided she gets back to civilization with dying or losing it. But she's also stumbled into a group of adventures and somehow ended up their captain. She recognizes this as an opportunity as is seeing how far she can ride this.

On the actual slavery, slightly conflicting thoughts. The first is obviously that she's greedy and slaves can be liquidated. But opposing that: the slaves could be useful to keep around (and the pirate character provides a convenient excuse to do so- they're press-ganged recruits now), selling slaves can be a hassle, and her specialization is mental manipulation, which means she's at least somewhat cognizant of group dynamics / how people tick, and it doesn't take a genius to see that selling off people in the group could cause problems.

Plus there's the moral uncertainty. Marijke obviously isn't the best person out there, but she's still conflicted as to whether she could actually sell a person into a lifetime of slavery. She's definitely tempted by this piracy thing, we'll see where that goes.
No. 99654 ID: a107fd

>I don't suppose it would be possible to get an effect akin to a Phylactery of Faithfulness?
What, you mean above and beyond talking things over with me here in the discussion thread?

How to get out of the immediate situation: being a paladin means you've got some charisma, which adds to Diplomacy and Intimidate. Those have mechanical teeth in my games, especially on NPCs. Make some logical arguments about formalizing the charter to address the kobolds' likely concerns, rousing speeches about the goodness of all mankind( http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20160325 ), and/or melodramatic tirades about cleansing fire, then remember to roll dice when you want the results to matter.

If pure social engineering is insufficient to get everybody (or at least a sufficiently coercive majority) on (or at least headed toward) the 'straight and narrow road of righteousness,' you could challenge Marijke's presumptive captaincy with a duel.

If you win, Garaile's idea of righteousness sets the pace for the rest of the party. Write up a charter, get everybody to sign it, head back to town, liquidate the loot to acquire some suitably mind-expanding magic items.

If you lose the duel, Garaile is probably incapacitated, and you can create a new character. Maybe he recovers, you go multiball and mostly leave it up to me to decide what a narcissistic trophy-hunting paladin would do in any given situation, or maybe he gets sized up as a renewable blood supply and sold off to the hag coven before recovering from his wounds.

You could also, at any point, simply split the party. That kind of thing is a lot easier to manage in an asynchronous format like this. Even if Garaile can't convince anyone to follow him, being a paladin means he's a tank with a side-order of healer, and thus well suited to surviving solo play.

The quest is a dungeon crawl, but that involves very deliberate elements of horror, both cosmic and psychological. Having the main characters heroically escape hazards of dungeon and wilderness, then fall apart and/or backstab each other within sight of safety, like Lord of the Rings mashed up with Lord of the Flies? I wouldn't necessarily consider that a failure.
No. 99655 ID: a107fd

>To me, it would seem like attacking without warning or provocation is more un-paladin-y than not striking down a supposed evil the moment it's encountered. It's a code of conduct, and should be about how you act, not if you're pushing up your kill count at every opportunity. (Especially since Garaile doesn't have a patron that I'm aware of. He's not trying to stick to some deity's dictates, but his own idea of honor and right and wrong).

Pretty much, yeah. Somebody who detects as evil but isn't taking immediately evil actions might be doing the right things for the wrong reasons, in which case you should be careful lest their incentives shift in the future but otherwise leave them to it; might be trying to redeem themselves, in which case you should aid them; might be as nice as anyone gets in the setting but have a glitchy alignment aura for whatever reason, in which case you should either figure out what the reason is or leave well enough alone; might be working some nefarious 'long con' in which case thwarting them effectively would require figuring out the underlying truth. Meanwhile, someone who's genuinely good might be perpetrating wickedness out of ignorance, blackmail, etc., or simply have interests that conflict with yours. And of course an evil creature with access to magic might disguise their aura as a relatively routine precaution on covert ops. Detect Evil gives useful clues most of the time, but if it never steered wrong, why would anyone bother with heavier investigative tools like Zone of Truth or True Seeing?

>It also seems to me any paladin code would have to allow for inaction some of the time, or else their orders would die out as newbies threw themselves at every fight they couldn't handle. (Is avoiding the witches any more inaction than not attacking them)?

I don't think any reasonable GM's interpretation of the paladin code would mandate throwing their life away in a futile gesture. A heroic sacrifice is only even recommended, never mind required, when it'll actually accomplish something useful, and when you haven't got other outstanding obligations which will be left unfulfilled. Getting your adventuring companions, some mostly innocent kobolds, and theoretically redeemable death cultists back to the safety of civilization is a higher priority than striking (from a position of ignorance and weakness, even) at any random evils stumbled across.

> I mean, smoldering with impotent, righteous anger at an overwhelming evil seems reasonable heroic character development.
One could also make longer-term plans to, at the very least, share scouting reports with those better equipped to resolve the issue.

Relevant previous discussion:
No. 99658 ID: a107fd
File 146274419384.jpg - (88.49KB , 800x565 , 3779149-no+you+move+cap+says-0-800-0-565.jpg )

>I was legitimately afraid if I didn't, then cooperating and liasing with the evil creature would be grounds enough to fall.

Realized I should probably address this separately. You honestly thought I'd declare that tolerating the mere presence of a talking bird was a more heinous transgression than mutilating a priest's corpse, or leaving Nick behind for the rats after you, personally, not only drew their attention, but shoved him into his personal waking nightmare, and marked him with the fresh blood of their mangled kin?

Honoring a request for parley is NEVER an Evil act. It might be a violation of some specific promise and thus inconsistent with a Lawful attitude, and it might be stupid if the other party has a history of violating truces or oratorical skills that verge on mind control, but, in itself, giving someone a chance to explain themselves or surrender (without just throwing down their weapons and hoping for the best) is pretty solidly Good behavior. Of course, you have to be careful what you let them talk you into... pic related.

Have you previously played with GMs where the G stood for "gotcha," leaving you sensitized to such abuse?
No. 99659 ID: 4201a2

>Have you previously played with GMs where the G stood for "gotcha," leaving you sensitized to such abuse?
Yes, both of my previous two GMs loved throwing this sort of thing at the party, with the justification that inner demons should be just as dangerous as outer ones. That's one part.

The other part is that I've never played a Lawful Good character before, so jumping straight into paladin is feeling very sink-or-swim. I went into this expecting to play a haughty, selfish Neutral fighter, only concerned with personal fame, but then I wound up as a paladin. I genuinely didn't think collecting even grisly trophies from an evil creature was going to be a big deal, but it was, and that's coloring all my future concerns. I'm really doing my best to be a righteous, wrathful paladin, using my image of a classical crusader for reference.

I don't want to split the party or wrest leadership from Marijke, and I don't want to roll to lie to the kobolds that they'd be better off going to town, when they probably won't be. I want to be a helpful healing tank supporting and protecting the mostly-ranged party. The medium doesn't allow me to get easy input from the party on things I'm going to do before I do them, like a real tabletop would, so I'm defaulting to whatever seems most in-character for Garaile.

>you mean above and beyond talking things over with me here in the discussion thread?
I mean I don't want to take an action and be told "welp, that was evil. you fall.", I'd like some kind of buffer in-between. An “Are you sure you want to do that?”, so to speak. http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/37960/
No. 99660 ID: a107fd

>roll to lie to the kobolds that they'd be better off going to town, when they probably won't be

That would be fast-talk or somesuch. Diplomacy, in GURPS anyway, is where you're trying to figure out genuine mutually-beneficial deals. Remember that bit about how, on the frontier, a lot of the time the law is whatever the toughest guy in town says it is? If you say that's likely to be you, and if so, that you'll say the law is "be nice to kobolds," they might respond positively.

You still need to roll to convince somebody of something that's true, if they'd be reluctant to accept for whatever reason. In fact, there's a bitterly amusing parallel between my trouble convincing you that I'm unlike your previous GMs and Garaile's difficulty convincing the kobolds he'd be unlike their previous masters.

If you genuinely don't think there's any way to make going back to town safe for the kobolds... well, then, you should probably come up with a different plan, that doesn't involve dragging noncombatants into danger. Or start chewing on the ethical calculus of how to minimize that kind of thing, at least, if you're really caught between a rock and a hard place.
No. 99661 ID: 4201a2

>difficulty convincing the kobolds
I didn't roll because I've opted to not try to convince the kobolds at all. Garaile only made a passing comment, and is otherwise letting them make their own decision.

Whether it's the coven or the town, Garaile's just going to let the dice fall where they may and try to paladin a way through whatever problems arise.
No. 99662 ID: a075ba

>I went into this expecting to play a haughty, selfish Neutral fighter, only concerned with personal fame
Out of curiosity, if you weren't worried about imposed morality, risking a fall, how would you play this? What's the haughty, self-aggrandizing thing to do?

I mean, when you get right down to it, there's no reason a pally can't come across as haughty. You might even be able to get away with doing the right thing for the wrong reason, if it's internally justified right. (Of course it's good to work towards your own fame! The more you're recognized and respected, the more you can accomplish).
No. 99663 ID: a107fd

>opted to not try to convince the kobolds at all
Not going to explicitly express willingness to protect them, within the limits of ability and other responsibilities? Not even going to explain what's known about the options, about the surface world with which they're apparently unfamiliar, in order that they can make an informed decision? Not going to say anything substantial at all in defense of Garaile's reluctance to pay tribute to the coven? Are you sure you want to do that?

>didn't roll
That's super frustrating for me, when somebody takes an in-character action but doesn't roll for it.
No. 99664 ID: a107fd

In my experience, it tends to boil down pretty simply to this:

Think of something you'd like your character to be trying to do, what their goals are, explain them as well as you can, and try something that seems kind of logical in-character. If it's not dead stupid, most of the time it won't kill you.

I think even with Nick, he technically had some sort of chance to survive, but his player dropped out. But Nick was also in like, at least three kinds of super obvious danger (though "trapped underwater" and "on fire" didn't really overlap I think).

More generally, JamesLeng strongly favors simulationism- not a planned narrative, not specific outcomes for characters in mind (except maybe where players themselves suggest such a goal), and not silly gotcha traps. So it's generally best to just try directly and earnestly for what you want. (Assuming, of course, that you make sure to specify an action and roll something.)

Do what you want 'cause a pirate is free from goofy song references!
No. 99665 ID: a107fd

P.S.: If you don't want to be a pirate, that's probably also acceptable.
No. 99667 ID: a107fd

>Okay, okay, I'm rolling, I'm rolling. No need for threats.
I apologize for losing my temper. In my defense, you asked that such warnings be given.

I'm trying to make expectations of paladinhood reasonably unambiguous, and as broad as possible without undermining the core concept. I'll answer any questions you have, to the limit of what Garaile could know, never demand you make a decision without the opportunity to ask such questions, and never take away Garaile's supernatural powers on the basis of an honest mistake. You read Order of the Stick? Think of Miko Miyazaki, how many opportunities she had to turn back, and how unambiguous that last step was. You ever watched the Star Wars prequels? Anakin's fight with the sand people was a bad call, but maybe defensible insofar as they presented an ongoing threat to innocents. If he was a paladin in a game I was running I'd draw the line at the premeditated kindergarten abattoir.

If you want a unifying principle for how paladins should behave, though, I'd say it all comes back around to the immunity to fear. A paladin isn't oblivious to danger, but the instinctual drive to Fight, Flee, or Freeze never overwhelms their reason.

Every clash of swords is a fair contest against an honorable rival, or the sad necessity of eliminating an implacable foe, rather than the blind viciousness of a cornered rat. Every retreat is disciplined and orderly. Stillness is rest, meditation, or guardianship, rather than deer-in-headlights paralysis.

Act without fear, pursuing long-term gains (even if most of the benefit goes to someone else) rather than flinching away from personal loss or pain, and you're acting like a paladin.
No. 99670 ID: 4201a2

Miko Miyazaki was a Lawful Stupid radar-paladin, who absolutely would have killed the seagull on sight, regardless of whatever hospitality her neutral colleagues sought to bestow on it, and then likely would have confronted / opened up hostilities on the neutral, or even good party who "performed the evil action" of attempting to harbor a clearly evil creature. (See: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0285.html ) This was her MO from introduction to fall in OotS, with an explicit statement that she's been doing it for years with little repercussion. And she didn't fall until she committed a truly outrageous, egregious act, against a good character, no less.

Regarding the Star Wars example, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/additional-rules#TOC-Ethics-For-Adventurers notes that "a good character who believes the younglings can never overcome their innate evil might kill them all outright, viewing the action as good, just, and the most merciful option", and therefore such an action is not inherently evil. You can also take Kore from Goblins as an example of a paladin from a grittier setting who viewed those who associated with evil creatures to be just as damned. (See: http://www.goblinscomic.org/09172005/ )

Whereas in this campaign, killing evil creatures by sole virtue of them being evil is apparently against the paladin code. (Not that I'd want to do so anyway.) If the punishment for being a radar-paladin was to fall, the vast majority of generic paladins would be out of luck. It's fine if you want to do it that way, I'm only stating what the standard is that I'm using as reference for Garaile's actions, which I should hope are a little more intelligent.
No. 99672 ID: a075ba

I'm not sure it's fair to use Kore as an example / comparison paladin in pretty much anything. He's been recognized as breaking the rules for what's possible for a pally by multiple people in universe. There's some kind of weird exception / metaphysics going on that the readers aren't privy to yet.
No. 99684 ID: a107fd

Kore is a terrible example of anything. He's got some unique curse that seems to involve being unaware of the evilness of his own actions, the details are as yet unclear, and I disagree with Tarol Hunt on alignment-related issues in some subtle and hard-to-explain but nonetheless important ways. Please do not bring up Kore in any further discussions of how a paladin should or should not act, or really, discussions of anything at all outside the Goblins setting.

>Paladins And Moral Quandaries
>More than any other character class, paladins face challenges in dealing with moral quandaries and shades of gray because of their alignment and code of honor. Those playing paladins should not be fearful of these ethical dilemmas; instead, such moral issues should be viewed as opportunities to open a dialogue with the Gamemaster to discuss the nature of the paladin's code and how it would affect her role in the situation at hand. The GM, likewise, should take the time to fully explain what might cause the character to lose her special abilities or force her to seek atonement. The GM and the player should also discuss how and if the GM will warn her in future gaming sessions if her actions warrant repercussions.
Emphasis mine.

Anakin massacring an entire encampment of sand people, or Miko Miyazaki hypothetically mercykilling some goblin babies offscreen, is one of those grey areas, like the necklace-of-ears thing, where if it happened in my game I'd want to have a talk about the logic behind the decision.

Miko fell when she ignored the direct advice of a more senior paladin in order to summarily execute her elderly, unarmed, Good-aligned liege, for largely imaginary crimes. She thereby, knowingly, disrupted the city's senior military leadership on the eve of war, and (perhaps unknowingly) came within inches of accidentally destroying the Sapphire City Gate in the process, which would have done incalculable harm to the very fabric of existence. That was a bad decision on just about every possible level.

Anakin Skywalker went to the jedi temple and "killed all the younglings." Again, an unprovoked attack against defenseless innocents, needlessly disrupting the long-term viability of one of the setting's greatest forces for good.

If you wanted to kill Marty the Seagull, the hospitality thing is an obstacle to that, but not insurmountable. It's one of those honor things, like sneak attacks and poison. The hospitality was provisional, extended on Marijke's behalf while she was believed to be asleep; it would be (or would have been, probably be too late now that you've broken bread together) possible to argue with her that the protections of hospitality should not be extended to what appears to be a disguised demon of significant power.

You didn't have to to that, I'm not going to punish you for it either way, but it was a valid option. This is NOT a railroad! If you'd realized the goblins were up to something nefarious and called them on it, you could plausibly have beaten them in a stand-up fight, or fled. That would have left you stuck in the dungeon until you found some other entrance, but then you wouldn't have had to fight Mesifin Styx and the entire goblin outpost, which... yeah, could've easily been a TPK if Marijke didn't get the swarm thing to work, or Than hadn't been paranoid and lucky enough to stay loose and provide an effective distraction, or Nico didn't taunt Styx enough to throw him off-balance, or Garaile didn't roll well enough with a called shot to the head (silently, and from behind) to give the priest a concussion before he could lay out any 3rd circle prayers. I've just got a setting in my notes here; "the plot" is mostly a matter of what you, the players, decide to do, as modified by the whims of the dice.
No. 99690 ID: a107fd

Y'know what? Screw it. This alignment/code-of-conduct argument has been done before, and it isn't going to accomplish anything, so I'm going to cut it off right here.

"Sir" Garaile is not and never was a 'paladin.' This isn't a game of D&D or Pathfinder, it's some hybrid system I'm making up as I go along, at least half of which is GURPS. There is no such thing as a 'paladin' in the setting; the only playable classes are Hedge Witch, Townie, Soldier, and Rich Bastard, everything else is specialties and suchlike. Paladin-related precedents in general no longer apply.

Garaile's righteousness-based immunity to disease and fear, his non-spell healing, etc., are still in play, will develop further, and could conceivably be lost to relevant types of horrid spiritual mutilation just as much as Marijke could lose the distant patronage which enhances her witchcraft, or Than could lose her target-seeking eyes, or Nico could lose his sly tongue, but no more so; they will not be revoked as a result of mundane misbehavior.
No. 99691 ID: a075ba

>causally uses diplomacy verging on mind control to get someone to spill their guts entirely
>then falls asleep in the middle of trying to reassure her own party, completely botching it
I just want to say the level of absurd success and failure I'm getting on this character is perfect. That's flawless bookending, there.

>they will not be revoked as a result of mundane misbehavior.
Iunnno, Marijke at least has a partial patron. It seems logical that a suitable act of sacrilege / desecration against the fundamental practices of his worship would cost her favor or support. (Although I can't imagine any scenario offhand where that potent an act of disrespect isn't deliberate.)
No. 99697 ID: a107fd

>suitable act of sacrilege / desecration
You'll note I was careful to specify mundane misbehavior. Mundane, from the latin mundis, meaning worldly, as opposed to sacred, transcendent, esoteric, or sublime.
No. 99758 ID: a107fd

Quick roll call, who's still interested in continuing? Would it help if I skipped ahead to
A) scouting the cove
B) storm ends, march inland
C) arrival at monastery, or
D) town?
No. 99759 ID: a107fd

I'm still here for sure, and I'm happy with any of those options, or no skip, either way.
No. 99760 ID: a075ba

I'm still here.

Sorry, the longer term planning and plotting stuff sort of slows it down. Gimmie a minute, I'll respond in the main thread.

B, probably, although other people might want to specify preparations.
No. 99769 ID: 4201a2

I am here, though I figured you're probably pretty tired of hearing from me by now.
It'd be nice if the storm ended, since all it's done is delay the plot and reduce food supplies. We were going to investigate the cave and probably meet the coven along the way anyway.
No. 99771 ID: a107fd

>tired of hearing from me
Never. The alignment thing got frustrating, but I'm still very happy to have you as a player.

>nice if the storm ended, since all it's done is delay the plot and reduce food supplies
Weather gets generated randomly; such hazards are a big part of why travel through trackless wilderness is so difficult and dangerous. That said, the storm will die down considerably on day 5, and be over by day 6.
No. 99774 ID: 4201a2

I'll take that as a go-ahead for starting another frustrating argument.

Random weather is all well and good, but it also means that with our limited supplies and inability to sustain ourselves by foraging, you could easily roll up a TPK at any time. I admit I don't know much about DMing, but in my personal opinion, dying by starvation/dehydration because of random bad weather and poor resource management is just about the most boring possible way to wipe a party. I'd rather suicidally fight the evil coven and at least be an active participant in my character's death, rather than dying because the RNG says it's monsoon season and the party decided to explore instead of scavenge for food.

That goes double in a campaign where everyone only vaguely knows what our supplies look like, or even what our own characters are carrying half the time. It's fine to omit things to maintain momentum, but random week-long storms that force everyone to stay indoors unless they have magical protection is a great way to bring that momentum to a grinding halt. In short, the quest feels indecisive and inconsistent as to where it falls on the sliding scale of mechanical gameplay vs woolly story-progression.

That said, I find it darkly humorous that our characters are stuck in a cave for a week, unable to accomplish anything meaningful, and we as players have also been unable to accomplish anything meaningful for a week.
No. 99778 ID: a107fd

>everyone only vaguely knows what our supplies look like, or even what our own characters are carrying half the time

Since Garaile's got some time to kill during the scouting run, he could compile a more detailed inventory of available tools and supplies.
No. 99782 ID: a107fd

>at least be an active participant in my character's death

Garaile could also overdose on Nico's laudanum, stand out in the rain until he succumbs to hypothermia, ask one of the acolytes for some spell, recklessly commit shibari, or otherwise get himself incapacitated in some way that's harder to snap out of than waking up from sound sleep but still recoverable. Then, you could roll up another character to go multiball and explore the dungeon some more, pick up playing Garaile when he's got something to do.

Yes, that incentivizes suicidal behavior when the situation seems strategically hopeless, or even just OOC boring. I was pretty clear up front about this being, at least partly, a horror game? Speaking of which, I think the answer to another of your concerns can be summed up in one word:

>dying by starvation/dehydration because of random bad weather and poor resource management is just about the most boring possible way to wipe a party


There's a whole selection of NPC captives-turned-teammates, and neglected former PCs, all with their own names, hopes and dreams, bones and muscles and organs...
You could even bring them back to life after, with strong enough magic. It'd be easy, if you make it back to town and throw enough gold around. Theoretically a single drop of blood is enough; deliberately prepared trophies should be more than sufficient.
No. 99792 ID: a075ba

Killing someone to eat them then rezing them later seems rather inefficient, especially when you consider all the parts of a body we can't eat / aren't equipped to prepare. I think you'd be better off removing easy to prepare and non-vital bits, and then topping them off with healing magic.

That, and a conjure food spell (or my favorite, stone to flesh) has to be easier to get our hands on than resurrection.

...given the resources available to us, I think death by "trying to kill something we should have left alone for food" or "death by magical experimentation in the attempt to gain food" would arise before we reached "death by starvation."

The fact that we can conjure fresh water certainly buys us time. You die of thirst before starvation.

If we do find ourselves trapped and starving and with no option but to try and preserve relics / trophies for later resurrection, we're actually fairly well prepared for that. We have several death-aligned priests- you'd think they'd be perfect for properly preparing remains. And we have an inorganic party member to hold relics and take the slow route into the future until she's reactivated and can seek our resurrection. (Biggest flaws are we don't currently have any means to increase her odds of surviving / hibernating until conditions improve, and we probably don't have enough riches to afford the subsequent resurrections).

(I can agree with the original complaint that starving to death isn't particularly interesting, unless it's the party's own fault. In roguelike dungeon crawls, a food clock is just a mechanism to keep you moving; starvation awaits the slow, or the careless farmer. That stick doesn't seem as necessary in free form roleplaying, where the system doesn't need to be geared to prevent scummy behavior- that's left to the players and the DM).
No. 99794 ID: 4201a2

Going by pathfinder standards, (I know, I know) Stone to Flesh would be an arcane spell of the 6th circle, while Create Food and Water would only be a 3rd circle divine, and therefore much more viable, if less horrifying / interesting.

>commit OOC idiocy to multiball
I don't mind waiting individually while the team gets things done. I'm complaining that the entire team was waiting while nothing got done.

Garaile, despite being stripped of paladinhood, would still never be able to justify it, and would probably volunteer to be the first to be killed and eaten, given the way the character's apparently developed.

>it'd be easy to rez deliberately prepared trophies
I would absolutely love to watch Garaile be murdered by a Mercy Ult on a full necklace of ears. Being done in by the consequences of your own lower ambition is the best way to go.
No. 99795 ID: a107fd

What's a Mercy Ult? Some kind of monster that disguises itself as an ear?

>Powerdown Letkra holding bits of human remains
I wonder, would she be able to cup her arms and such usefully to hold onto stuff, or are you talking about a backpack/other form of externally attached storage? Or some sort of grotesque inner-abdominal storage, maybe?
No. 99796 ID: a075ba

I was actually thinking of nethack, where Flesh to Stone is only third level. (Yay meatballs and meat-boulders).

Honestly, I didn't think ahead in that much specific detail. I suppose if everyone were dead you'd have enough cloth leftover for a backpack. Inter-abdominal would depend on what's already in Lectra's abdomen, and how important it is.
No. 99797 ID: a107fd

>In roguelike dungeon crawls, a food clock is just a mechanism to keep you moving
I admit it's somewhat simulationism-for-it's-own-sake in this case. I'm mostly using the GURPS rules for starvation, so regardless of level you can survive for three to five days with no food at all (though you're not going to be in shape for much adventuring after the first two days), or almost indefinitely on half rations if you get lots of rest.

>Create Food and Water
>less horrifying / interesting
In this setting? Standard magically created food is delicious, contains all essential nutrients, has an indefinite shelf life, a day's supply of calories weighs only half a pound... it's perfect, in the short term.
Long-term use causes permanent neurological damage and tissue discoloration similar to lead poisoning, psychic powers, albinism, and, in some cases, dramatic morphological mutations. It's a divisive political issue among elves.
No. 99798 ID: a075ba

Important question:

Does this apply to the magically conjured water we've enjoyed, or as a less complex and/or elemental substance do the same hazards not apply?
No. 99800 ID: a107fd

Letkra's abdomen contains some stuff that sure looks like organs, sort of.

Also, 'Lectra is an interesting nickname for her, sounds sort of like "electric".

> I suppose if everyone were dead you'd have enough cloth leftover for a backpack.
That really depends on what they died of, doesn't it?

> It's a divisive political issue among elves.
Does that mean it takes an prohibitively (centuries) long time for the effects to apply, or is it just more of a prevalent issue in elven culture?
No. 99801 ID: 4201a2

Mercy Ult is a reference to the game Overwatch. It's a full team resurrection, which in this context would mean every enemy Garaile ever took an ear from would suddenly and unexpectedly spring back to life from their ears.

Garaile can apparently purify water through sheer force of will, so it should be fine either way.
No. 99805 ID: a107fd

>Does this apply to the magically conjured water we've enjoyed?
It might... if your group were using 3rd circle magic to pull pure elemental water out of nowhere. Hardly anyone ever does that because, even aside from such dangers, most environments have ambient moisture which can be tapped much more easily. The magical water supply you're using is actually very small-scale artificial rain. It holds the same risks as drinking local rainwater, which could reasonably be considered negligible anywhere the air is safe to breathe.

>Does that mean it takes an prohibitively (centuries) long time for the effects to apply, or is it just more of a prevalent issue in elven culture?

Alarmingly small quantities can leave visible marks on a developing fetus; two meals a day for ten years would do the same to an adult. Elves have long lives to feel the consequences. It's a political issue because some wish to set up large yet "self-sufficient" communities in environments where agriculture is impossible, such as rocky deserts and deep, lightless caves.
No. 99815 ID: f461c5

Sorry I havent been available, life has been getting hectic and I occasionally find it hard to muster the effort to get out of bed, let alone interact with a game I enjoy and have investment in. I will try to be more involved.

Cutting people's asses off for food and then healing them. If Space station 13 can do it we can.

One imagines that even though elves are not the race known for creating horrible, cataclysmic problems by experimenting with magic in an attempt to solve widespread problems like hunger and labor (Thats humans), they certainly have more options available to solve problems of inconvenient habitation than most. One of the first things that comes to mind is using a combination of selective breeding and life magic to produce livestock and crops that thrive in X environment. Dust-drinking sheep and apples whose leaves partially exist in the radiance of the astral plane, ect.
No. 99816 ID: a107fd

Humans pretty much got the 'cataclysmic experimental magic' thing out of their system with the fall of the Atlan Monoculture several thousand years ago, and drakocratic government makes sure it stays that way. Elven mad-science fiascos tend to develop more slowly, and operate on a smaller scale besides: individual ghost towns, rather than continental wildfires.

Dust-drinking sheep, like certain fungi, can indeed survive in total darkness, on a diet of stagnant air and ground glass; the tricky part is getting their flesh to taste like toe-cheese rather than rusty charcoal. Pollen from a higher-dimensional tree attracts exotic pests. Solutions to those issues are known, among sages and specialists, but seldom considered cost-effective. Modern agronomy works best with environments where sunlight and water are available in relative abundance. Mostly.
No. 99818 ID: a107fd

*sets down restaurant menu* "I'll have the rusty charcoal, please."
No. 99825 ID: a107fd

David J. Prokopetz on 'status condition' attacks, resource management, and the evolution of gameplay styles: http://jewel-of-the-hoard.tumblr.com/post/144456785692/
No. 99829 ID: a075ba

>longish interesting discussion of game theory / design
>transitions to a bunch of chocolate covered tits
No. 99832 ID: a107fd

Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown Tumblr.
No. 99862 ID: b5d4a7

Hey pops same guy as before. I have an unreasonable amount of ideas and unrealistic expectations so I'm just gonna throw out design ideas and you feel free to slap down anything and everything, but as I said I have l o t s of ideas

For starters, ideas on Magic. As a hedge Mage, I do plan on using magic. Now if the alchemist/tinker specialist combo is allowed I was thinking of focusing on prepared magic and having trouble with spontaneous magic. I was thinking My chaotic magic vulnerability would double the failure range of any spontaneous magic- if something would normally fail on a 12 I would fail on a 6 etc. failure comes with not only wasting my spell slot or however that works, but also creates a spontaneous random effect in a random area for a random target/s. As a trade off, I focus on taking a lot of time and effort into making my spells into more permenantly affixed forms- potions and items. I was thinking it could take me longer to prepare a spell- rather than starting each fresh day and preparing my spells I'd have to take time to physically make them. In addition they'd have to be activated in some way- thrown at a target, imbibed, or magicked somehow to activate them. Up to you how much of that you're comfortable with and wanna roll into the game. If you're not down for that kinda play just lemme know and I'm happy to play by whatever rules you wanna lay out for me
Next I was wondering if you had any rules or caveats you wanted to place on how my familiar would work and what rules they follow if you're not too sure about all the gunk I tossed out in my last post in the main thread.
And I guess my last train of thought is addressing the mummification. Her goal would have been to reduce the risk of death from organ damage and failure- I was thinking this much translate easily into a resistance towards crits and having vitals targeted? In turn a weakness to the elements and probably difficultly healing wounds naturally would probably result. Does that sound like a fair deal to you, or would you rather things work a little differently?
No. 99865 ID: cea69d

Also if the part decides not to go that way I can easily throw together a new character. I've got a long list of abandoned pathfinder characters I haven't gotten to play in a while, and adapting them to this format doesn't seem too difficult, especially because it looks like there's some inspiration from that style of system
No. 99867 ID: a107fd

I didn't like the wild magic thing because it's not really a vulnerability if there's no way for a clever enemy to proactively exploit it.

As for the actual intended effects, sounds like a mashup of the Artificer from 3.x Eberron and the Alchemist from the Pathfinder Advanced Players Guide would be pretty close.

Mummification sounds pretty reasonable. Let's say it's equivalent to concealed leather armor, even when you're naked, and it also covers any attack targeting a vein or artery (which might cause problems if you're trying to donate blood on purpose for whatever reason). When you bleed, it's got the consistency of honey or half-dried tree sap, and damage from bleeding accumulates at one-tenth the usual rate (typically per ten minutes rather than per one minute; arterial bleeding, vigorous exercise, etc. can speed that up). Clotting involves the formation of jagged blue crystals, which in turn means any wound involving significant blood loss takes ten times as long to heal... unless the crystals are extracted, surgically or otherwise, and the raw flesh underneath is properly re-bandaged, in which case healing can proceed more or less normally. When severely wounded, you'd be more likely to pass out, but less likely to actually die.

As a hedge witch, you don't have a functional familiar at the start; you need to gain at least one level first. I'm willing to handwave the actual acquisition process a bit, though, as with Marijke's dream-parrot. How would you feel about something like a disembodied AI core? At the outset it'd be sessile and insensate, maybe the size of a fist, 2nd level you figure out how to wake it up and rig crude temporary bodies so it can be a robo-spider or whatever else is required, 3rd level (where the current PCs are) you sort out the servo controllers enough that it can fight effectively and achieve controlled bird-style flight, 5th level gives improved bandwidth of communication with you (equivalent to coherent speech, instead of beeps and purrs and blinking lights and cryptic error messages) and the ability to "hack" architectural-scale magic items, but only when plugged in directly, and finally at 7th level it's effectively got magical powers in it's own right.
No. 99872 ID: 7abb29

Sounds fantastic, I'm very excited to join. 2 questions:
1) do you know how regularly the party advances/replies? Wanna get an estimate if I'm waiting a few days or if it could be months here
2) would you want me to prepare additional characters now in the discussion thread in case the party decides to send off to another location that way there's less of a waiting game? Or is that a bit much in terms of clutter for things we may not even use
No. 99880 ID: a107fd

Given that the quest started two months ago today, and a lot has happened since then, you probably won't be waiting multiple months between updates. Checking in every day or two should be enough to avoid missing anything major.

As specified in the first post, don't generate a new character until your current one is incapacitated.

If your main concern is to start having adventures immediately, you can start out in the dungeon. If your main concern is meeting up with the rest of the PCs safely, you can wait until I introduce you, as a random encounter or in the slave pit or whatever.
No. 99881 ID: 7abb29

Oh yeah random encounter slave pit no gear whatever works best for me I think! Not super concerned about when I start just wanted to get an idea for what to look for
No. 99884 ID: e47e93

Don't let my dreams be dreams? okay. i dunno i guess my ID name is okay for now unless you actually want something.
No. 99938 ID: 54743a

Putting this here so I don't clog up the main thread but nico's tongue tip has like a 30ft aura of silence around it right? Would Marjike's familiar be able to carry it and either fly it away from the group to allow conversation or towards enemies to disrupt them in anyway? Sort of like a piloted silence bomb?
No. 99946 ID: a107fd

Only 10' radius, otherwise correct.
No. 99966 ID: cea69d

Would the silk being traded make decent enough cloth for band-aids and such? And secondly do we have any alcohol or such in the party? If not would the brandy be useful as an antiseptic for cleaning wounds or numbing agent for surgery prep? To steady hands and reduce anxiety in the doctor or to get the patient drunk so getting their legs sawed off doesn't hurt quite as much etc?
No. 99974 ID: a107fd

Silk cloth is pretty fancy for bandages, but would work fine. For the rest... the party has actually performed some surgery, relatively recently. Might be simpler if you started by reading through the whole current thread.
No. 99979 ID: cea69d

I read through everything since they started searching for shelter because of an oncoming storm up to them finding the witchs cave, meeting their familiar and everything up to present day. Just wanted to know if alcohol would be useful in this setting for medical purposes, that was all. If you'd like I can read the entirety of this thread as well as the previous, but I felt that as a new character coming in, getting to discover their adventures might be more sincere, so I didn't wanna spoil it or lead to any potential meta-gaming without prior request.
No. 99983 ID: e47e93

I don't think it would kill you, as long as you don't make your character retain any memories of that time. Just phase it out when you take action or something. My english is bad right now and I don't know why
No. 99990 ID: 4201a2

I think you should be completely fine skipping thread one. There isn't really anything that happened there that is still relevant to the current thread beyond the characters themselves and the loot we got at the end.

The surgery JamesLeng is referring to was Nico's tongue surgery experiments. In that particular case, Laudanum was used as a painkiller, and the wound was patched up with healing magic. Alcohol wasn't mentioned.
As far as what will or will not work in-setting, I would say, due to the nature of the system, anything that sounds even remotely reasonable will work if you accompany it with a good roll.
No. 99991 ID: a107fd

I concur with this summary.
No. 100014 ID: cea69d

Yeah, I was all read up on this thread, and I've skimmed parts of the first one for character creation and such, but I tried to avoid reading all of it so I could still get something from talking to the PCs and hearing about their adventures
No. 100052 ID: a107fd

Known sapient mortal creatures (as opposed to animals and vermin on the one hand, or ageless spirits on the other) fall into five broad categories: elvenoids, eohippoids, dragons, goblinoids, and troll-kin. Generally, any two members of the same category can produce fertile offspring, and parents of two different races will produce a child of neither parent's race, but within the same category. For example, the child of a forest goblin and a hobgoblin would be a tidepool goblin, or mound-builders and harpies produce green dwarves. Mating across categories doesn't usually yield children at all, unless powerful sorcery is used to force the issue or one of the parents is a disguised dragon, in which case the resultant hybrid is usually sterile. Troll-kin are unusual in that many of them (hags, huldra, lamias, medusas, etc.) aren't generally known to reproduce at all by conventional means. True trolls have a two-stage life cycle: a sapient bipedal hermaphrodite with hands suited for tool use, and a tangled serpent which grows additional heads when wounded. Sloughed or severed heads develop arms, legs, viscera, and self-awareness in no particular order.
No. 100072 ID: cea69d

Interesting! Do the bug creatures fall into a recognizable category for us? Perhaps a eohippoids?
No. 100085 ID: a107fd

None of those categories. 'Eel-ticks' and their beetle-shaped, knuckle-walking thralls aren't "known."

The Drakocracy is far-reaching but not comprehensive in it's control. Cities and highways are arranged like a tree, branches and leaves presenting the illusion of solidity even though there's far more open space than real wood. Not everything in the tree, is part of the tree. And outside that... strange and terrible things lurk among shadows, beyond the flickering light of civilization and sanity. Some even carry unwholesome lights of their own.
No. 100113 ID: cea69d

very intriguing! I think Riv would most certainly be interested in these outside regions beyond civilization, as her desire to become a polymath is one of her key features; she values few things above knowledge, and would definitely want to a pioneer exploring these unknown frontiers. I would be very interested and excited to get to see more of that
No. 100133 ID: a107fd

That's probably how she got captured in the first place.
No. 100147 ID: a107fd

It is widely rumored that various troll-kin turn to stone in sunlight. This is due to a conflation of several tangentially related facts: mountain trolls have stone-like flesh, and suffer from temporary blindness and narcolepsy upon sudden exposure to bright light. Serpent-haired huldras often enjoy relaxing on sun-warmed rocks, and turn other people to stone when disturbed. When life first returned to the world after the Serpent swallowed the Sun, trolls are known to have been the first race reborn, presumably from rocks. Only troll vampires fit the myth exactly, although this may be the greatest contributing factor to it's persistence, in that they are otherwise all but unstoppable.
No. 100172 ID: 4201a2

So many exciting things are happening with the party right now, I feel kind of awkward asking if anything at all is happening back in the cave. This seems like a decent amount of time in which the cave group could be doing something productive, like practicing skills or making new equipment or something. Is Garaile going to be getting any experience at all? If not, then considering Garaile's been permanently bound to protect the kobolds by oath as a result of the previous player/DM tiff we had, I'd like to toss my lot in with a new character.

Is being mentally unable to accompany the party by oath enough of an incapacitation to warrant a new player? Or is the system going to necessitate OOC suicidal behavior to permit me to return to being able to participate in the quest? I actually kind of like this paladin, and don't really want to throw away Garaile just so I can be part of the quest again. It's been nearly three weeks now.
No. 100182 ID: a107fd

Sure. Roll up a new character, probably either an orc stevedore, or somebody in the slave pit with the ogre, or, conceivably, one of the actual ogre enforcers, although their strength qualifies as a Power and you'd be stuck with ogre psychology for the Phobia and Vulnerability slots. Also, equipment selection will be more limited.

For purposes of consistency with the rule about incapacitation, we can say that some theological debate between Garaile and the acolytes leads to him getting hit with a Ghoul Touch spell, 'just to see what it feels like.' Recovery from the resultant paralysis is automatic, comprehensive, and swift, but OOC it lasts long enough to introduce a new character.
No. 100191 ID: 4201a2

Alright, sweet. I had a character prepared already which I think will fit in quite easily as a slave, so I'll lay it on you, and you can tell me which equipment should be limited. He shouldn't be a problem losing some stuff.

Ravenous Llyr

A brutish, hulking sharkman, appearance similar to a wereshark in hybrid form. Not especially intelligent, but makes up for it with keen predatorial instincts and a well-honed physique.

Soldier, specializing in tracking/hunting
Ambition of finding true love (non-sharkperson is good too, if they have that special connection as a fellow brutish predator)
Fetish for eating freshly-killed raw meat
Phobia of completely inorganic creatures, such as metal golems
Mutation: A shark-like head, with features to match. This includes powerful, oversized jaws full of abnormally durable razor-sharp teeth (easily capable of biting through even very tough materials) as well as the ability to keenly smell blood and amphibious gills permitting water breathing as well as air.
Vulnerability: Highly gullible, with little-to-no understanding of social subtleties. Can be easily tricked by even simple deception, although bloodthirsty singlemindedness in combat can still mitigate mid-battle skulduggery.
Innate power: Supernatural digestive powers: can't be harmed by anything ingested, and consuming meat in particular triggers a temporary surge of rapid bodily regeneration based on how much was eaten

And, if he should survive that long, he deals with anger by bottling it up until it explodes, and unleashes it like a berserker against his enemies / prey.
You know, your typical matter-over-mind sharkbarian.

Equipment (Pre-capture)
Head/Neck: Jade amulet (depicting a nature/sea deity)
Left shoulder: Fishing net / hammock
Right shoulder: Spear (or a trident, for flavor, if that's possible)
Chest: Bandolier of knives
Left hip: Kindling (mostly driftwood)
Right hip: Dried meat (fish)
Concealed: Chalk (in a small waterproof pouch)
No. 100194 ID: a107fd

Solid concept. Weapons and jade would be locked up in the ship, other equipment is fine.

I think you've got the 'power' and 'mutation' backwards. Mutation should be mostly passive and concealable, but with physiological side effects, so super-digestion plus shark teeth fits perfectly there. Power, on the other hand, should be undetectable (by conventional means) except when actively in use, so... how about being a were-shark?

For shapeshifting as a power, there's another punnet square to consider: speed on one axis, reliability on the other. If you've got complete conscious control, then it's reliable but slow. If you shift reflexively in response to context, then it's fast and easy to 'go with the flow' (full human on dry land, shark in deep/salty water, grotesque shark-faced biped in shallow/fresh water, heavy rain, or on a beach) but strenuous and itchy to use the 'wrong' form. If you can shift instantly, at will, to any combination of human and shark traits, then every shift has some risk of unpleasant side effects (ultimately a result of distraction) unless you've got that jade amulet to stabilize the process. Finally, if slow AND unreliable, it also includes the ability to regrow severed limbs, unless the wound was inflicted with a silvered weapon.
No. 100203 ID: 4201a2

Well, I think a shark head and features is pretty passive insofar as it is purely physiological capability, and can be semi-easily concealed with a baggy hood or head covering.
And the super-digestion / regeneration is an undetectable skill except when actively in use, so I don't quite see where the problem is?

If you really think it's necessary to only be a part-time sharkman, then I think reflexive shifting in response to context sounds most fitting for the character. That said, I would like to be a grotesque shark-faced biped in most instances of combat, rather than only in the rain or on the beach, so could I append predatory instinct / rage to the list of triggers for that form, if we're going with that? I want to chomp people.
No. 100208 ID: a107fd

Of the three example mutations from the original character creation section, two could be almost trivially hidden from anything short of a cavity search (keeping mouth shut for vampire fangs, minimal underwear for the other thing) while pointy elf ears could be tucked under shoulder-length hair.

Yes, with a voluminous hooded cloak, and bad lighting, you could hide a shark face. Quoting the GURPS 4e Basic set, "a Carmelite nun in full habit could conceal a bazooka or a battleaxe from an eyeball search," but that doesn't make bazookas and battleaxes 'concealable weapons.' The reason I want mutations and parasites to be properly concealable is so all PCs can do routine business in towns, rather than being pegged as monsters by any gate watchman's cursory inspection, or otherwise needing heroic efforts to circumvent trivial security measures.

>reflexive shifting in response to context
>would like to be a grotesque shark-faced biped in most instances of combat
Yeah, could do the shark-face thing on dry land with that option, it'd just add a distraction penalty, and maybe a bit of fatigue depending on how long you keep it up. You could negate those penalties by evoking the appropriate context/mood in some concrete way, for example, by lifting a creature overhead and tearing it apart so blood and entrails rain down over you... pretty much like a Khornate version of Aquaman's dehydration weakness. Of course, then you'd be taking the distraction and fatigue penalties if you shifted back to full human before tidying up. Might be harder than that on barren mountaintops, or deep in the desert, but dank caves and dungeons should be easy enough.
No. 100212 ID: a107fd

With Letkra, she has fairly unnatural features on inspection (simple face with no nose, teeth, large eyes, etc; no nails; kind of an artificial look in general), but she fits the overall body plan. It seems like you can get away with a fair amount of subtlety, but the main rule is concealability.

So I bet Ravenous Llyr could have like, shark eyes all the time, and pointy teeth (and maybe the "Innsmouth Look"), but a full on shark-head always on would be hard to cover up. But changing into full-shark mode on demand works, it sounds like.

Regarding my recent roll, I have a mental image of a battle screen a la Final Fantasy, where Letkra is attacking with the glaive, missing the enemy she's attacking, TheBroadSideOfABarn. (there's also a Gazebo enemy next to it.) We can pretend I photoshopped my previous lineart, a photo of a barn and a gazebo, and a battle menu together, with "miss!" posted over the barn.
No. 100213 ID: a075ba

My mental image was more along the lines of "Than's going to need a new leg now."
No. 100214 ID: 4201a2

>Khornate Wereshark
Have you heard of my new metal band?

Being able to trigger transformation with the blood of his enemies sounds good enough to me. Llyr's human form will be a muscular, tanned sort-of-tribal-looking fisherman, with one hell of an unnerving smile.

Shouldn't be too hard to reel this fish into the party, with a little cleverness.
No. 100224 ID: a107fd

Sixteen is only a crit fail on effective skill 6 or less, and can actually be a success sometimes. If the roll were a 17 or 18, or if Letkra weren't
A)a soldier
B)buffed by Fool's Luck
C)cutting with her preferred weapon
D)down on a nearly stationary target, and
E)facing few other direct complications?
then, yeah, Than could easily have ended up a foot shorter.
No. 100237 ID: a075ba

I will admit with the whole 3 to 18 scale I do end up squinting at rolls not infrequently, trying to decide if they're actually good or bad.
No. 100261 ID: a075ba

rolled 5, 5, 6 = 16

For someone who never went out of her way to be a slaver, and is still kind of conflicted about the morality of that, Marijke sure is accumulating them quickly.

>Rixxil Kas offers to solemnize the surrender by using it's telepathic enslavement ability "in reverse," allowing Marijke to communicate with her new toy silently, at arbitrary distance, and issue nonnegotiable commands. Alternatively, as a further humiliation, the link could be delegated to some other member of her crew.
All morality aside, a telepathic slaver-slave does sound pretty damn tempting as a tool. What I'm wondering is how dumb an idea accepting that offer is- it could be a ploy to get myself dominated. Trusting someone to do mind-magic to you (and theirself) under duress seems like it would be dicey proposition.

Could I make a lore check here? Mind magic is her specialty, Marijke must have some idea about how this works (even if it's rudimentary, as a hedge mage). Does she have to leave herself wide open to betrayal if she allows this? Would she be able to tell (or be able to attempt to counter or resist) if Rixxil tries to do other what it is claiming it will do? Does inverting a domination / enslavement effect the way it is describing even sound feasible to her?

(Rollin for lore / knowledge check, if that's necessary).
No. 100268 ID: cea69d

Is this the thread you ment to post this in?
No. 100269 ID: a075ba

Yeah, I figured dis was a better place for asking for what is essentially background information, especially since I'm not actually declaring any actions. I suppose it could have gone in the main thread, tho.
No. 100274 ID: a107fd

>conflicted about the morality
>pretty damn tempting as a tool

Thanks for noticing.

>lore check
>5, 5, 6 = 16

The drakocracy formally disapproves of research into the fundamental principles of magic. "Never again" is the one thing every dragon-sponsored politician can agree on, and Aguinbreke's Account of the Fall is the one book every adult dragon has read. Spells can be recorded, rediscovered, meticulously analyzed, even invented in flashes of genius... but never deconstructed, nor deliberately designed. There are surviving fragmentary references to an elegant standard notation for all magical effects; this too is forbidden.

So, Marijke does not have anything remotely resembling a rigorous theoretical framework available for answering this question. She'd definitely be able to tell who was being targeted, though, probably notice if something was wrong by subtle but mundane social cues after the fact, and easily enough interrupt the effect with anything that would break Rixxil's concentration... most obviously, further injury, and, at that point? Anybody who didn't learn their lesson after Than's response to the first lie deserves whatever they get.

To a certain extent, though, trust will be required. Isn't it always?
No. 100278 ID: a075ba

>easily enough interrupt the effect with anything that would break Rixxil's concentration
Easy? Dude passed its concentration checks on the octopus while being impaled and having its jaw broken.

>To a certain extent, though, trust will be required. Isn't it always?
Which of course is the crux of the problem. I wouldn't be considering restraining it, or mentally controlling it, if I did trust it.

Hmm. I suppose I could just friendship curse it first (assuming the free sample it's eligible for actually kicked in, otherwise I'm out). ...or, he might be an eligible target for demand gift, now. Rixxil did offer to give me possession of itself (meaning it just acknowledged itself as an object for which ownership can be transferred). If that's sufficient to meet the spell's requirements, I could force it to go through with enslaving itself whether it was lying or not.
No. 100282 ID: a107fd

Demand Gift probably wouldn't work... it's meant to hijack subconscious 'inventory control' and kinesthetic sense and so on, to make somebody hand over an item the same way they might scratch an itch without thinking. The opposite of "you are now breathing manually." But, telepathy doesn't involve physical action at all. It'd be like trying to use a tire jack and socket wrench to swap out a set of horseshoes.

Friendship Curse, likewise, doesn't do so good on alien psychology lacking an equivalent to the human concept of friendship.

You could delegate the job to somebody you trust, and/or who Rixxil wouldn't gain much by mind-controlling. Up to your judgement who that'd be. The better you know them, the easier it is to notice mind control by behavior shifts.

>passed its concentration checks on the octopus
That was just communication through a bond established days earlier. Doesn't take much concentration to squeal "Save me!" especially when you don't even need to move your mouth.
No. 100309 ID: 80d8bd

Hey sorry I'm out of town for the weekend celebrating a couple of birthdays so until I have access to a computer I can't roll. I would likely choose to climb the boxes the attempt to maneuver towards the entrance while gaining the high ground but I'll let you know the exact details once I can use the dice command again.
No. 100314 ID: a107fd

Strictly speaking, Letkra's class was listed as:
>Rich bastard niceperson

...not soldier. Not sure how that may affect the combat skills here.

As long as I'm talking about my character sheet, I should also point out this section:

>- Phobia: Being trapped in a ward or summoning diagram. She is psychologically incapable of freeing herself from perceived restraints in a deliberate fashion.

This includes not only handcuffs, chains, rope, etc, but also random pentagrams on the floor. And "no entry" signs, little velvet ropes, orange cones, and so on.
No. 100316 ID: cea69d

How do you guys make quotes from other people show up in green? I'd like to make my replies as coherent as possible, and I fear the plain text muddles things. Also considering putting all of Riv's dialog in italics to make it easy to recognize- would that be helpful/worthwhile? Or just annoying?
No. 100318 ID: a075ba

All you have to do to make greentext is place a ">" at the beginning of the line.

>Like so

As for speech and formatting, so long as what you do comes across is clear, it's probably fine. (I've assumed Letkra is speaking in typewriter / computer font as a nod to having an artificial voice, it might make sense that someone who's half mummified similarly has an unusual voice).
No. 100328 ID: a107fd

I warned you about stares, bro. I told you dawg.

>The umber hulk is a monster in NetHack. It is one of the few monsters which can tunnel naturally through rock (along with rock moles and woodchucks) and unique through its confusion gaze attack.
No. 100331 ID: 0ae7f9

fuck. ptsd from pokemon is flowing back to me with zubat infested caves

send help

If you gaze long enough into the abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you vibe going on here huh.
No. 100362 ID: 4201a2

I'm starting to get a hunch that Llyr is not going to survive to the end of thread 2. I need a new set of dice!
No. 100365 ID: a075ba

Well so far all your unfortunate rolls have been directed at other people, away from yourself, so maybe it's not Llyr who has to worry about their survival.
No. 100367 ID: a075ba

>It's over in a blink. Than's arrow passes smoothly through Marijke's amulet, producing a sharp pain in her chest
Also, god damn did I start to panic as I first read this. "I didn't cast fast enough? She shot me right through the amulet? AAAH- oh wait it worked better than expected."
No. 100368 ID: a107fd

Maybe stop attacking your own team?

Again I say, thanks. I was actually leaning back on Exalted influences to determine out exactly what happened there, and it'll be a bit of a mystery to unpack IC.

Sorry 'bout that. Than will be functional again shortly, and the next adventure will probably have far more of the undead available to fight. Depends which way you're headed, of course.
No. 100369 ID: a075ba

>it'll be a bit of a mystery to unpack IC.
Yeah, I was already planning to devote some of our next downtime to trying to study what the heck happened, because that is not what Marijke was expected. (And permanently disarming an ally of a unique weapon is sub-optimal).

>the next adventure will probably have far more of the undead available to fight
Huh. Out of curiosity, how do Orcus-priests feel about killing undead? How does this particular dark god feel about them? Non-alive wastes of time, or mockeries of proper death worth unmaking?
No. 100373 ID: cea69d

This is all very exciting- I'm glad I'm hiding in the trees nearby and not in the potentially deadly fray. I've been listening to NIN The Downward Spiral and it's been making my character creation brain parts churn, weirdly enough, so please don't feel like you gotta act out of line to keep my character in the mix, I can churn out a new one in a matter of minutes. I'm all about that RP authenticity B^)

In the mean time, assuming I'm cleaver enough to survive, here's some possibly unnecessary or unwanted info revolving around Riv that I've been brainstorming:
A) She scampers a lot- and by that I mean crawls/runs around on all 6 like an animal. Her original pathfinder character was a frog so she tends to squat and use her arms as legs quite a bit, especially in close quarters, tight spaces, climbing crates to save her live from burrowing umber-hulks, wherever it would most convenient honestly. I'll try to denote this with "Scamper" for using all limbs, and "run/walk/anything else" to denote standing on 2 legs. If we're fighting burrowing creatures this might be more relevant, so I thought I'd throw it out there
B) She's like 19- she was a slave from like the ages of 6-16 before her master was killed- her master was a skilled alchemist so she learned her trade for him- that's also how she got her extra arms, as she was often a guinea pig for his experiments. She was on her own after that and wandered from town to town trying to hide her deformities long enough to make money and get food before her research into the outskirts of civilization got her enslaved once more
C) Don't know how I forgot to list this under fears but she is paranoid about drugs and mind-altering substances. Her mind is pretty much her first and only line of defense, her only real tool and weapon she can rely on. She does her best to avoid anything that inhibits her mental functions, aside from her own manufactured drugs and creations that she tests on herself. She tends to be paranoid about her food and drink, and untrustworthy of gifts and such; pretty much everything she uses or puts in her body she makes herself. She didn't have a very good home life growing up so it's hard for her to rely on anything but herself. SO not a hard and fast phobia, but she's about as skittish around drugs as some people are needles, and the other stuff is more general guidelines to how I make her act.
D) Riv, again due to paranoia and a love for research, has a lot of sleepless nights; some of her modified physiology was intended to allow her to go for long(er) periods without having to sleep if she needs to spend 78 hours working on a project without breaks etc. Not really a super-natural power, more just she's practiced pulling all nighters before, so wanted to throw that in for flavor or technical use, up to you.

I also really enjoy the technical aspect of character design and making character sheets and stuff so if you have any character sheet info you can give out I think there's a few of us here who wouldn't mind getting a peek at it if it's not too secret.
No. 100374 ID: 4201a2

>stop attacking your own team
Alright, next time I'll just let my team members attempt to kill each other without trying (nonlethally, I might add) to stop them?

Better a hurt hand than a dead party member, even if the actual action ended up failing. Minor healing beats resurrection any day.

Anyway, Llyr is not really a "long-term planning" kind of guy, and his actions are generally going to be aggressive and reactive, insofar as I still think they'll be good ideas OOC.
No. 100375 ID: 0ae7f9

Well, worst case scenario I'll just assume if she somehow dies she'll become a spectre until whatever else happens I guess. Is there bringing the undead back to life kind of spells in your world? If there are, I'm going to assume they're heavily guarded, forbidden, hidden somewhere or whatnot.

I think I have ideas for another character but damn, it feels like I'm just going along with the Soldier class almost all the time with what I can think of.
No. 100376 ID: a075ba

You have a weird definition of "non-fatal", since a knife hitting either Than or Marijke in the wrong place could be a fatal injury. Or at least a maiming one. (Especially since neither Marijke nor Goris prepared higher level heals today).

And even if you'd nailed her hand, this is a kinda gritty setting and our healing magic isn't that great yet. An injury to the hand sufficient to maim or interfere with her archery we couldn't fully heal yet seems within the realm of possibility to me.

If you want an example of a slightly less hazardous alternative, we are in a room full of trade materials and boxes and junk. You could have grabbed something blunter or softer to use as an improved throwing weapon? (There could still be a risk of bruising, spraining, or breaking something, but the possible outcomes are more favorable than knifing).

Granted you didn't have a lot of options to interact from that range, but uh, please be careful with purposeful friendly fire?

I'm currently expecting an unarmed Than to survive being subdued, but if she does get killed, her weapon was just bound in an object, and she has some kind of spiritual connection to it, right? Might be something that would tie her to this world. (Like how can you die properly if part of your soul is locked in a piece of jade).
No. 100377 ID: cea69d

I think it makes sense for a raging shark man who was just enslaved to be a little knife-happy isn't too unreasonable- plus that character doesn't have to be on the party's side- they can just be a ravenous unaligned sharknoid in the cave causing havok for everyone
No. 100378 ID: a107fd

>(nonlethally, I might add)
Punching someone until they go limp, or lobbing sharp things at their extremities rather than the torso or head, may be indicative of a lack of intent to kill, but actual results under field conditions will vary considerably.

If Marijke had taken a knife to the side of the skull and an arrow through the heart, more or less simultaneously, she'd probably be dead, or at least unconscious. Who heals the healer? Best Goris could manage with her current spell loadout is preserving a corpse. Garaile and the other two acolytes are more than an hour's walk away, or, in theory, you could try to buy some healing potions from the eel-ticks. Think that would be easy to negotiate, when they realize your team's best medic AND best merchant is already down for the count?

If instead you'd successfully hit Than in the hand, sure, free samples of Least True Healing could fix up skin and blood loss... but severed tendons, or nerves? Low-circle healing magic just provides a fast, idealized version of what the body could do naturally. Crippling and maiming are a little more complicated, likely involving expensive visits to a healer's guild in some major city, risky surgery, or both.

Consider those ogres outside the front gate, with their checklist of what has to happen before commencing the smashy. Or, if you're anticipating more nonlethal blue-on-blue action, might be safer to think in terms of limb locks, mud in the eyes, or knocking 'em down and sitting on 'em until they cool off, rather than blades and hard striking techniques. Llyr's a big beefy guy, right? Probably at least Strength 14? Too easy to hurt somebody worse than you meant to.

>not really a "long-term planning" kind of guy
Fair enough. I won't stop you if that's what you're going for.
No. 100379 ID: cea69d

I think it makes sense for Llyr to miscalculate their own brutal efficiency yanno? They just thought a few other factors were more weighty in this situation and acted on their instincts.
No. 100383 ID: 4201a2

>at least Strength 14
As a wereshark barbarian? A base of 18 wouldn't be a stretch. But accompany that with pathetic sub-10 int and cha, and average wisdom at best.

>permanent damage
I'm still not exactly sure how healing magic works in this setting. On the one hand, we struggle to cure anything beyond superficial injuries, but on the other hand, we can raise the dead relatively easily?
Some of my decision-making may be skewed by false perceptions of what magic we do and don't have access to, so I appreciate the extra info on that.

Predatory instinct is pretty much the entire character concept.

All that aside, I will try to tone down Llyr's friendly-fire tendencies in the future. I'm not intending to do anything stupid just for the sake of being stupid. There is a method to my madness, so to speak.
No. 100389 ID: 0ae7f9

Mmm. Yeah. I suppose that would work, but she'd still go into some state of undeath for a while worst case scenario.
No. 100391 ID: a107fd

>On the one hand, we struggle to cure anything beyond superficial injuries, but on the other hand, we can raise the dead relatively easily?

Well, you could rapidly rebuild a shattered bone into any desired shape just by using first and second circle healing magic to replace recovery between successive rounds of surgery. Problem is, that still comes down to the mundane skill of the surgeon eventually getting it right, and until then, the process would be remarkably similar to some of the most extreme forms of torture ever implemented in the real world.

A living body is complex, and recreating (or elaborately realigning) that complexity in an efficient, deliberate way is the province of higher-circle magic. Think of the difference between a well-planned modern city, with traffic lights and sewer pipes and emergency services and all that, compared to a decrepit slum, refugee camp, or shantytown. Least True Healing, metaphorically, brings in a cargo van full of bandaids, bottled water, and candybars: gets some people back on their feet, through a short-term crisis, or working a little harder, but man cannot live on bread alone. Lymphatic Auditor is more like a home-repair handyman with a portable generator, power tools, planks and plumbing fixtures: sorts out a lot of little logistical issues before they turn big. Higher-circle healing spells would correspond to bulldozers and concrete mixer trucks, zoning boards and army engineering corps, capable of dealing with problems many people won't even think of as problems, just "how the world works." Injuries or debilities that wouldn't ever get better on their own.

As for death... when does a city stop being a city? You might think that getting rid of all the people, and all the buildings, would do the job, but geography defines certain strategic locations that have been abandoned and recolonized repeatedly over the course of history. Conversely, in apocalyptic scenarios, most of the buildings and many of the people might still be present, barely changed, but the larger city has ceased functioning, transformed into mutually-hostile armed camps scattered among ruins. Is New Orleans still New Orleans after it's been evacuated, knocked down by a hurricane, and rebuilt? It's in the same place, many of the same people live there, there's the culture, the name... it's complicated. Death is the point where a city becomes ruins, where a body becomes a corpse, but it's not a single well-defined point. If somebody is in perfectly fine shape, other than having a small hole in one of their main organs, that might be a situation where modern medical science couldn't save them. But then Least True Healing goes in there, right down at the level of individual citizen-cells and turbulent fluid vortexes, and says "Hey there, blood! How ya doin? I've got a little favor to ask. See this hole over here? Yes, I know you haven't got eyes, just bear with me. How about - instead of flowing through this hole and spurting everywhere - you pretend it's not even here, and go back to work like usual? Just for a few seconds, while I tidy up the place. Here, I'll make it worth your while, have a nanogram of primordial life-essence. Buy yourself something nice, my treat. We got a deal? Of course we got a deal, always a pleasure, see you next time. Hey there, cardiac muscle! How ya doin? Yeah, not so great, bad breakup, I get that. Whatta ya say, instead of scarring, you just..." and so on. Cheating, taking shortcuts to recover from a situation faster and smoother than would be possible in standard procedure, but never demanding the extraordinary at any single point. No matter how big your budget, the Great Chicago Fire is going to be harder to bounce back from than a single burst water main, and copious basic healing won't work at all with literally no living cells left to bribe, or when none of them know how to do the job in question.

Which is where fourth- and fifth-circle stuff comes in: Osseous Auditor can straighten out a compound fracture, regrow small yet crucial portions of the brain and spinal cord, or even disentangle loathsome necrotic barbs from the soul, but can only be cast inside a carefully-arranged circle of enormous standing stones, with the aid of expensive herbal compounds and extracts, and may require many applications, no more than one per week. Druidic techniques of artificial reincarnation, and the sorcerous parallel Breath Of Life, more or less rebuild the body from scratch, installing clean organs and infrastructure from a proven template, top-down, then integrating them with whatever remains. This has some obvious advantages over the tedious incremental bottom-up process, particularly in extreme cases, where it could be stalled indefinitely if the rot is being healed as much as the intended target. Top-down design also has some inherent potential for a... wider variety of complications, much the same way a strong central government can lead to less predictable problems than the diffuse efforts of laggards, rioters, or brigands.

((musical accompaniment: St. James Infirmary Blues, by the White Stripes))
No. 100394 ID: 0ae7f9

How would it deal with hinderances, such as necromancy and/or perpetual decay spells? Would death overrule life in those scenarios? Going to assume you can perform revivals with just the soul of someone.
No. 100397 ID: a107fd

>How would it deal with [...} perpetual decay spells?
You'll have to be more specific. There's a cheap sort of 'rot aura' which rapidly aggravates open wounds and any healing magic worthy of the name does an admirable job of making wounds stop being open, so the aura stops being able to do it's thing.
The deadly curse of the mummy progressively transmutes flesh into sand, and healing magic deals with that about as well as modern engineering builds cities atop highly active volcanoes: at best, heroic effort might buy you a few hours or days in which to apply some other strategy for the underlying problem.

Yes, there are ways to produce wounds that are particularly difficult to repair. Anybody who brings, say, clay siege-men to an otherwise clean and honorable war might have a hard time finding allies afterward.

>such as necromancy
Before the Fall, magic was understood to fall into seven broad categories, of which Necromancy, the magic of life and death, encompassed almost all healing spells, along with their spiteful mirror counterparts.

Under a naive 'spherical cow' analysis, equal and opposite applications of healing and spite precisely cancel out, like heat and cold. Realistically, nothing's that perfect. As the power on both sides rises, slight asymmetries would produce increasingly exotic phenomena, and sooner or later it'd end badly for an initially-healthy subject. Aguinbreke had quite a bit to say about the sort of people who'd actually test that sort of thing.
No. 100408 ID: a107fd

>>(I've assumed Letkra is speaking in typewriter / computer font as a nod to having an artificial voice
I'm glad that worked as intended. : )

>it might make sense that someone who's half mummified similarly has an unusual voice). [in reference to Riv's dialogue, I think]
And I concur.

>>her weapon was just bound in an object
I don't know about the behind the scenes info on that or angything, but just from a harder scientific perspective, do we even know that much about what happened there? Than's bow vanished and she started screaming (while hallucinating), and the amulet got sort of damaged and is sort of creepy and yellow and alive-looking. Is the bow in the amulet? Is it retracted into Than's soul? Marijke's soul? Does Marijke "have" the bow but it vanishes rather than serving her since it's linked to Than's soul? Maybe the bow disintegrated completely, though that seems a little harsh. Basically, I don't know how much we can tell about what happened without further study.

For that matter, how much do we even know about Marijke's amulet in the first place, too? Do we know anything more than:
>>jade amulet (rumored to have some mystical protective value, certainly looks pretty)

With Ravenous Llyr's friendly fire risks, I'd be inclined to say: if you really specifically want actual non-lethal results, sharp things are probably a bad idea... BUT, if you think it's more in-character to not worry about overkill and be super brutal, then go for it! (...said the player of a regenerating robo-cyborg). Riv makes a pretty solid case for the mindset on that I think, also. But you should probably beware that in-character that may cause loyalty splits (Marijke probably doesn't trust Llyr at this point, for example).

With Letkra, the lethal risk probably went over her head altogether; she's mostly just flummoxed that everybody isn't standing in neat rows and taking turns, and generally announcing battle symbolically when it begins and being relatively polite, rather than all this random scuffling and assault and gorilla tactics and so on. Her ideas about the risks of permanent lethality are even more out of touch...

(loooooooooooooong rambly OOC explanation of Letkra below, feel free to skim or skip the rest of this post)

Basically, she's from (or at the very least, thinks she's from; other than weird anatomy and alien culture, she doesn't have much proof) a high-tech world that's more or less eliminated scarcity and death, where Adventuring is something "kids"- you know, people that haven't been alive for all thaaat long- do to have fun, learn, and experiment with stuff. And as part of a setup meant to prevent them from having a human-scale mouse utopia->hell->apocalypse ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun#Mouse_experiments ). And it is all very, very artificially prepared and calculated and organized and safe and colorful and friendly, bearing little resemblance to the risk and hazards and brutality of the world she's stumbling through now.Her phobia is less about fear of restriction, and more about adhering to those parameters. Likewise, her artificial, self-repairing anatomy is commonplace.

For battle, at best she's expecting it to be like british soldiers in the revolutionary war, with neat rank and file and bright uniforms and standard procedures, plus some showy action maneuvers; at worst, she's literally expecting a literal turn-based battle fought standing on opposing sides of the room.

Whether or not Letkra is correct about where she's from is genuinely up in the air for the purposes of this game (but the concept is based on a comic I've written notes about and eventually plan to make, with adjustments to fit the parameters of character creation here).

However, I really don't want to portray her as being overtly genre-savvy or fourth-wallish, because I find that kind of stuff gets utterly immersion-breaking (and, in anything less than the hands of skilled comedians, dumb) pretty easily. She's completely serious in-character about what she's expecting- she's just got a very sheltered idea of what adventuring is, and how life and death even work on a basic level. With some weirdly specific behaviors in mind, which is why she's suddenly babbling about "invincible town guards" (when she's not even in a town, and there's no reason to expect random invincibility).

Her expectation of reality is sort of like a completely-literal mix of Dragon Quest, Ultima III: Exodus, and a dash of 1930s Mickey Mouse cartoons (she's probably wondering where all the random pianos are and expecting random parts of the environment, like pine needles on trees and rocks and boards on the ground, to suddenly produce musical syncronicity when someone interacts with them). Take that stuff as literally as possible, taking abstractions at unaltered face value, and you're on the right track. Even the likes of, say, Final Fantasy VI or VII are more dark and brutal than what she expects, and likewise, something like Looney Tunes would be far too meta/self aware/fourth-wall breaking- and that's just contrasting stuff that's even in the same category.

Then, what we've actually got here (you know, the world the players are actually in) is something based on a combination of Pathfinder, Exalted, and friggin' GURPS (which has the hardest science of all RPGs I've heard of; you could easily debate whether certain charts in GURPS provide a useful shorthand for real life physics), with extensive homebrew take-offs on each. So her expectations are their own type of madness, in such a gritty horror setting. Sooner or later, seeing permanent death is going to provoke some kind of existential crisis for her.

Buuuuut she hasn't explained any of that very well since she barely grasps the nuances of everything "wrong" that's going on around her, and is just making a lot of weird implications all the time, like she has this completely batshit unrealistic idea of how anything works. She is utterly out of place.
No. 100409 ID: cea69d

She sounds like she's really fun to RP !
No. 100411 ID: a075ba

>Basically, I don't know how much we can tell about what happened without further study.
Yeah, that's what I'm going to attempt, just as soon as loot is divided. It might end up being a longer term thing to unravel, though.

>For that matter, how much do we even know about Marijke's amulet in the first place, too? Do we know anything more than:
We know nothing about it, aside from materiel composition and Marijke's own belief that it acts as a tool to aid her mental manipulation spells. (Whether this is accurate at all, and/or a placebo effect has not been subjected to peer review).

>Marijke probably doesn't trust Llyr at this point, for example
Yeah, she's not happy about the knife-happy. Practically, this means she's likely to put him at the front of the marching order so the next time we run into something his attacks are pointed safely away from her. If he continued to look like a danger just to be around, she would start looking out for her own safety. (Throw him out, leave him behind, mind control him, something).

The mind-control bug of questionable loyalty, and whose species can apparently cause temporary murderous insanity by accident, that she inadvertently enslaved is rather higher up on her immediate concerns list, though. Rixxil's potentially pretty dangerous to have around.

Riv she was mostly annoyed at for what she perceives as almost messing up her deal (for a very quick and effective attack we got an immediate surrender and payoff- that's effective piracy! And we even had the moral high ground! (Sort of)). But she'll probably get over that by the time she's done counting the money.

Marijke pretty much trusts everyone who helped her get out of the underground alive, at this point. Nico gets bonus points for being nice to her from the start. Amusingly, despite my initial misgivings bringing them along, she's gotten pretty comfortable relying on the acolytes.

I think she even sees Letkra as trustworthy, despite the... admittedly shocking naivete. The gesture of giving the (completely alien and maybe even more valuable) gold coin counts a lot with Marijke. And while Letrkra's... outlook... is potentially dangerous, it follows enough of a pattern that Marijke considers it manageable.

For a money-grubbing mind-controlling pirate I think she's actively shaping up to be less of a cynic than I am, which is interesting.
No. 100418 ID: 0ae7f9

Than dies, bow dies. They're two in one. The amulet is damaged due to the arrow, not due to absorbing the bow. I intentionally made it the special ability so the bow can't be stolen, or wielded by anyone else for that matter. At best, Than can be disarmed.

Not sure if James interpreted it otherwise though? If special abilities can be lost so easily, well there goes a lot of niches in characters if they have any.
No. 100419 ID: 0ae7f9

Than dies, bow dies. They're two in one. The amulet is yellow due to the arrow, not due to absorbing the bow. I intentionally made it the special ability so the bow can't be stolen, or wielded by anyone else for that matter. At best, Than can be disarmed.

Not sure if James interpreted it otherwise though? If special abilities can be lost so easily, well there goes a lot of niches in characters if they have any.
No. 100420 ID: cea69d

So level ups! We discussed me building my familiar but apart from that I'm not on the up and up for leveling; should I try to find it in a thread somewhere or do you wanna just build whatever changes with me here?
No. 100421 ID: cea69d

Also to address Marijkes preception/concerns about Riv, from her standpoint she had a small window to escape when your spear head walked in, but your crew opened fire on Rix- she doesn't consider herself at fault for the events
No. 100422 ID: a107fd

What basically happened there, from the Neogi perspective, is two socially inept elvenoid females walked in mostly unarmed and completely unarmored. Normally, savvy types dealing with Neogi lay at least some of their violent assets right out in plain sight, as deterrent, so Rixxil Kas thought "I've got a giant octopus under my personal control, three umber hulks within shouting distance, positioned to cover all the exits, and more besides. I'll just scam these idiots a little bit. Overwhelming force advantage in my favor, if they even notice." First, the elf was able to distinguish between blue glass and a real sapphire with absolute certainty, in a single glance, from beyond arm's reach, which, I mean, that's just not fair! Who the hell can do that? Then both of the clowns whipped out exotic concealed weapons, and the guards at the front gate fell to pieces without even any sign of struggle... it was looking like Rixxil had utterly misjudged who held the overwhelming force advantage in this situation, or at the very least missed something important. That's just about the worst time to go on the offense.
No. 100424 ID: a107fd

Honestly I'm still thinking over how it's all going to work. Riv's main thing is alchemical gadgeteering, so for the time being let's say she's got a lot of big ideas, but needs a lab and materials to usefully implement them.

>Than dies, bow dies. They're two in one.
>I intentionally made it the special ability so the bow can't be stolen, or wielded by anyone else for that matter.
Yep. A part of Than's soul definitionally cannot be separated from her. Remember when Yeven Surgis was trying to grab it? Demonic heart-radar sees spiritual stuff more easily than flesh. From her perspective, the rest of Than's equipment and body seemed to be little more than wisps of smoke, circulating elegantly around that shining, perfect bow.
>The amulet is yellow due to the arrow, not due to absorbing the bow.
Less clear.
No. 100425 ID: a075ba

>implement chain of command
The complicating factor there is conflicting standards.

For the characters, it makes sense that the captain would give the people she trusts and has been with the longest higher positions in a chain of command. The problem is these people have either become npcs (Snake, Garaile) or have a currently indisposed player (Nico).

For the players, it would make sense to give active characters more autonomy, but as the newer characters they should have the least respect / trust from the established group.
No. 100426 ID: cea69d

Yeah I'm gonna assume until I have the appropriate resources and such my familiar and tools and such won't advance- but having the ability to sit down and prepare some spells other than "Sticky light" would be useful
No. 100428 ID: a075ba

Hmm. If you'll forgive me, I'm going to indulge in some wild mass guessing. (Many of these will be preposterous).

* I accidentally made Than a phylactery. Turns out that's a lot easier than usual when you can manifest your soul externally as a material object.
* A link has been forged between Than's bow and Marijke's amulet. Than (or Marijke?) can choose to fire arrows out of the amulet, similar to a Portal Projectile spell.
* A link was forged between Marijke's amulet and Than's hammerspace storage, which Marijke can now access. Congrats, your soul is now a bag of holding. Please try not to die, I'd like not to lose my items.
* A recall / summoning link has been established with the amulet, similar to the existing function of the bow. Allows Than to blink to Marijke and/or the inverse. (Battlefield mobility, to help keep the caster and archer at range).
* I now have a window into Than's soul. Which mostly isn't any good for anything except trying to tempt Marijke with an extremely thorough and direct magical control opportunity.
* The amulet can now be used to displace the center of Than's "kill-sense" radius from her body.
* Marijke can use the amulet, combined with mental magic, to tap into Than's more extraordinary abilities (the lie detection / enhanced vision).
No. 100429 ID: a107fd

Panel three here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0936.html

In a crew of pirates, strict discipline and unconditional obedience to officers is unlikely anyway. I was mainly thinking that a roster of the crew, with squad assignments ( http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/38547/ ) and default downtime jobs, would make it less likely anybody'd fall through the cracks and be forgotten. With at least one active player per squad, just pretend they're following the nominal squad leader's instructions. Haggling over the duty roster IC could be fun in it's own ways. http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2010-02-25
No. 100433 ID: 0ae7f9

So you're calling my character a tool right now? Appalling.
No. 100435 ID: a107fd

Obligatory "highest term of respect" reference: http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+1/20
No. 100439 ID: 0ae7f9

Save it for the ogre.
This link also doesn't seem to be working.
No. 100447 ID: a107fd

No. 100454 ID: 4201a2

>put him at the front of the marching order so the next time we run into something his attacks are pointed safely away from her
This is the correct handling procedure for any barbarian.

As far as Llyr's trustworthiness and knife-happiness goes, I think Marijke will find that simply giving him a clear task/enemy/direction is more than enough to keep him useful.
His aggressiveness only becomes a factor when a situation is both violent and it's unclear what he should be doing about it, at which point he'll just default to Attack.
Than attacked Marijke, so given no reason not to, Llyr attacked Than. Pretty clear-cut.

>Garaile is an NPC
I'm still playing Garaile. It's just that Garaile will no longer willingly part with the kobolds, and therefore has become more of a garrison unit.
No. 100455 ID: a107fd

>having the ability to sit down and prepare some spells other than "Sticky light" would be useful

Your most important at-will thing is the experimental miscellany. It lets you arbitrarily (albeit temporarily) edit the physical characteristics of any unattended, not-already-magical objects within about ten feet. Not with enough speed or force to be directly useful in combat, but the possibilities are countless. See a black patch of sand? Magnetize a wooden cup, now you've got a supply of iron filings.

Four times a day, you can build or brew something that works far better than it should, equivalent to a 1st circle spell. This could duplicate the all-day temperature-protection thing on a single subject, temporarily remove all scent from 3 creatures or objects per use, turn your extremities to living stone for the duration of a single battle, or many other possibilities. It will be much easier to manage and replicate those effects once you have a book to take notes in.
No. 100458 ID: cea69d

Understood! Can't build a better familiar with no parts, and you can't write down recipes without paper. Again, very excited- the mind aspect of games like these has always been my favorite part, so the tools you've given me I'm very much looking forward to using.

I have Riv's previous character sheet from pathfinder, and as an alchemist she could prepare spells from a list of spells known. If I list off some examples of these, could we say that they were in her old spell book before she was enslaved and lost her research? Sort of give a platform for her to build towards in regaining that "lost" knowledge and re-creating recipes she had success with before, give me a little bit of direction for her studies and leveling up, provided she has the requisite materials and time and such, like scribing materials and ingredients and such?

Also, in that regard, there have been mentions of a banned system of cataloging magic- this is likely something she would have devoted a great deal of time pursuing; the forbidden and unknown are always highly attractive subjects for adventurers of all walks of life, and Riv is no different. If she is permitted to have any formal idea of this, she would very much want an chance to sit down with the other mages in the group and discuss the topic.
No. 100465 ID: a075ba

Haha! That exact Tarquin quote occured to me earlier. Squads would probably be the neatest solution. Also nicely means the npcs would contribute more and do less standing around.

Well, they're all tools of one kind or another, in the broadest sense. But really, I was shooting for silly brainstorming.

Fair enough.

...there are certainly a lot of ways magic item manufacture could be put to use to aid yourself or your party members, or that money could be made. (Which would probably win over your lucre witch captain pretty quick).
No. 100469 ID: 0ae7f9

Oh? So you're shooting silly brainstorming right now? Why not shoot serious brainstorming? Hmmmmm?

I'm clearly not trying to make things difficult right now.
No. 100476 ID: a107fd

>Riv's previous character sheet
Go right ahead. I'm thinking her class is mostly pfsrd Alchemist, but loses or downgrades direct combat capabilities (bombs and mutagen) for the familiar, as previously described, some Eberron-style Artificer stuff, and quick gadgeteering in general.
No. 100479 ID: cea69d

Sounds just about right!

Under 1st I had
Longshot (I used a gun + invisibility with a couple level dips into rouge to give sweet ass crits and a little extra sneak attack to help make up for my poor damage due to small size)

Invisibility (This was my go to spell, almost every spell slot was taken up with this, and I would just pop in and out of invisibility to sneak shank around the map)
Tattoo spell (I tattooed a bunch of healing and emergency spells I knew to my body so I wouldn't need to waste spell slots on them just in case, and I could just use them in dire situations)

Haste (Also always slotted up at least 1 of these to beef me up in combat)

All in all, it was a very sneaky list- get me hitting from farther away and make it harder for them to hit me. I really like playing a utility mage though so I'm looking forward to playing around with my powers and customizing my spells to this game; she will certainly want to regain lost knowledge, but knew knowledge may prove even more useful and vital even in this new setting, so I'm very excited to experiment and make new spells.
No. 100480 ID: a107fd

How about the Vivisectionist archetype sneak-attack-instead-of-bombs bit, twisted such that it targets metaphysical, not anatomical, weak points? Effective on constructs and corporeal undead, but not most ordinary meat-critters.
No. 100481 ID: cea69d

Sounds like a plan! I'm a bit fuzzy on the details though- metaphysics is usually philosophical in nature, you the "What is there and what is it like?" kinda questions, so I'm a little hazy on what metaphysical aspects of constructs and undead I'm targeting, as well as wondering if I will still have the ability to study/have studied the anatomy of creatures in an effort to learn exactly what makes them tick, and in turn how to make them not tick?
No. 100482 ID: a107fd

Got the idea from the fan-made nWoD mad science game, Genius: The Transgression. You'd be analyzing mechanisms on the fly, http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20100217 then hitting, say, a stone golem in the magical parts that make it different from a statue, or a zombie in the parts that make it different from a corpse.
No. 100488 ID: cea69d

Ooh, gottcha, sounds interesting! Hopefully I can make good use of that!
No. 100491 ID: 3d2d5f

If Riv can manufacture small explosives, I can certainly imagine a creative use or two.
No. 100499 ID: 0ae7f9

Attach an explosive to an arrow, if someone has some detonate corpse magic or Than can learn it somehow enchant arrow with it, then launch it at an enemy for volatile impact?
No. 100500 ID: a107fd

The drakocracy is mostly TL 4, which would normally imply extensive use of cannons, muskets, and other gunpowder-based weaponry in warfare. This technology is absent, because it is being actively suppressed. Grenadiers and musketeers and muzzle-loading naval cannon wouldn't pose much of a threat to dragons, but truck bombs and rifles and airbursting fragmentation artillery definitely would, and the dragons are very into thinking long-term.

That's why, as previously mentioned, folks who double-crossed a demonic murder cult consider "experimental alchemy" too dangerous to mess with: that term is a smokescreen for any tech the dragons think might, someday, lead to mass-produced, easy-to-use, dragon-slaying weapons, or other existential threats. As far as the dragons are concerned, Orcus isn't such a big deal by comparison. Even if he refuses negotiation, and some grand coalition of other gods fails to thwart his plans and bind him to centuries of torment, he can only personally wreck one thing at a time. To chase and kill an idea is trickier: hunters need to move at the speed of thought, in every direction at once. Another part of their scheme is to reduce that speed of thought, compartmentalizing civilization to limit the damage when something inevitably slips through.

So, if you want to mess with explosives, I've got rules to support that, but be careful who finds out.
No. 100501 ID: a075ba

I was actually thinking of combining it with the Bite the Pinecone curse.
>You offer someone an object (sold separately), and they accept it, including eating it if it's food or drink, without regard for common sense. For example, attempting to bite into a pinecone as if it were a ripe peach.

Although the ability to make people pop their own heads may not be worth risking the draconic inquisition. I could probably find a vial of poison or some other alchemical compound that would be just as deadly to bite down on without the added risk (and satisfying pop).
No. 100505 ID: a107fd

>draconic inquisition

The word "inquisition" implies curiosity, formal proceedings, and, less directly, some sort of show trial for propaganda purposes. Dragons generally leave that sort of tedium to kings and archbishops, or folks even further down the chain of command. When they feel the need to get involved personally, plan A is "make it look like an accident."

Remember that legend about all the water in a rainstorm being turned to oil? That sure sounded like an accident, didn't it? I mean, to do something like that on purpose... you'd have to be some kind of monster.
No. 100530 ID: cea69d

As we are on the verge of a new thread should we decide what route to take and head out and then open up the new thread? Or do we wanna save that for when we start a new thread?
Also I don't want to exclude people or drag out the time it takes to get things done; if all the fluffy extra dialog bogs us down should I move stuff like that to this thread? Or is that okay to keep in the main thread?
No. 100532 ID: a107fd

If it's in-character, it should almost certainly go in the actual quest thread.

Soon as you decide when to leave and whether to bring the ogre, I'm going to check for random encounters, hopefully resolve those quickly (there might not be any; I rolled up weather and encounters on the beach far in advance, so if you decide to stay and rest at the cave you're clear until day 9, but hills, road, and forest tend to be busier) and then start thread 3 with your group's arrival at the inn, and a meeting with... he could almost be called an antiques dealer, except that the items in question are neither unusually old nor, officially, for sale.
No. 100536 ID: cea69d

Sounds positively riviting, i can't wait! Hope we see the others chime in soon, I'm really looking forward to getting to do more with Riv
No. 100542 ID: a075ba

Are we just going to automate the division of loot?

Basic distribution means each member of the crew gets a cut, with (I would think) a bigger share if you particpated in the raid, for the people who volunteered to be the tip of the spear and took on additional risk (Than, Letkra) and if you're the caption (Marijke).

We could wait till we got to town and sold some things, but that seems like bad policy. Crew gets to port after a raid, they're going to want to spend coin on things and making them wait will put them in a bad mood.
No. 100543 ID: a107fd

I'd recommend writing out the actual charter, including numbers for who gets exactly how big a share. Doesn't have to be fancy. The example from GURPS 4e "Supporting Cast: Age of Sail Pirate Crew" is just a couple hundred words.
No. 100544 ID: a075ba

I'm not sure about a full set of bylaws, but I can at least bang out a quick formula for calculating everyone's share of loot.

%% Pirate Loot % Divides loot for the pirate crew clear; close all; loot = 1000; crewNumber = 10; captainBonus = 1.25; penalty = 0.75; innactiveNumber = 2; bonus = 1.25; bonusNumber = 2; activeCrew = crewNumber - 1 - innactiveNumber - bonusNumber; baseShare = loot / ( activeCrew*1 + bonusNumber*bonus + innactiveNumber*penalty + 1*captainBonus ) captainShare = baseShare*captainBonus innactiveShare = baseShare*penalty bonusShare = baseShare*bonus checksum = captainShare*1 + innactiveShare*innactiveNumber + baseShare*activeCrew + bonusNumber*bonusShare

The actual values are just placeholders for now, but up or down 25% seems reasonable / simple to me? Also, I'm not sure if we should count people who just joined as part of the crew for loot dividing purposes. Or if newbie at the end of the raid should get a reduced or flat share?

Also there's the problem where not everything we got from the raid is available in readily fungible form right now. We can lump gold and silver together for a given conversion rate, but there's the gems and the lock and such we can't liquidate yet (nor chop into fair pieces).

Potions (unless deemed not relevant or useful) should probably be held for use as needed instead of being divvied up.

...and maybe we should take a certain percent of the loot of the top, to go to the corporation / charter, to pay for operating costs? (Traveling supplies for the group like food, potions, ship maintenance, if we had one).
No. 100545 ID: a107fd

So, in plainer language, the proposed system is three shares to every member of the crew in good standing, a fourth share for direct aid in taking the prize rather than rear-echelon support, a fifth share for heroism or captaincy?
No. 100547 ID: a075ba

Yeah, that is what it works out to, in plain text. Unless someone thinks we should skew the ratios, although it has an attractive simplicity right now.

The biggest question to my mind is if there should be a separate common / operating fund on top some percent of the loot goes into. Or if I should just jack up the captain's share more if she's expected to front those costs.
No. 100548 ID: a107fd

New thread: http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/730630.html

Thread 2's not quite over, but TBH the patrol doesn't pose all that much of a threat. Even if somebody does something incredibly stupid, they're not going to straight-up murder you all. Worst case, loss of Rixxil Kas and the ogre, the rest end of you wind up in chains, still at the inn, and maybe become outlaws once somebody files the appropriate paperwork.
No. 100549 ID: cea69d

Additionally we could have a quartermaster fund, and travel expenses get drawn out of that. I personally would want a seperate travel fund that a portion of all our loot goes to, but the most piratey way I think would be captain gets like 10x more than anyone else and then pays for everything we need to keep afloat. People who are specialty positions like cooks And surgeons and stuff get paid a flat wage from the captains shares, and crew get a percentage of the loot, newbies get a smaller percentage
No. 100550 ID: a107fd

Captain only leads in combat. Quartermaster's the one who'd be deducting operating expenses. As for stuff that can't be readily liquidated or otherwise divided, Rixxil is more than willing to elucidate the dark and terrible intricacies of corporate accountancy.

The finest meals and accommodations the Black Boar Inn routinely has available only cost 12 silver per person per night, and you've got the equivalent of more than twelve thousand silver in actual cash. Shouldn't be too hard to find buyers, or a new gig, before that runs out.
No. 100583 ID: cea69d

Marijke has mentioned mage sight many times- is this something all hedge mages have? Or a seperate talent she developed that Riv has not?
Also, as I don't have a formal spell list yet, are all my prepared spells assumed to be miscellany?
No. 100585 ID: a075ba

>I think would be captain gets like 10x more than anyone else
We are a bunch of people effectively playing a tabletop together. Frankly, I doubt my ability to get away with that level or audacity, nor did I feel the need to try. (And in character, Marijke is a greedy witch, but she also sees recent developments as being very good for her, and would be reluctant to do something that might been seen as blatantly screwing over the people she's dependent on).

Mage sight seems to be an intrinsic ability to view spells / spell effects as visual effects, which allows both looking around for active spell effects and/or examining / studying existing spell effects as visual metaphors.

I would assume most casters would have some ability to perceive magic. (Nico for instance saw an hourglass when he examined the affected amulet). I would guess Riv does too unless you're special cased enough with the alchemy and artificing / engineering?

Marijke didn't have an actual spell list until she gained a level and got her familiar (at level 1 everything she did was effectively experimental miscellany, I think).
No. 100588 ID: a107fd

>blatantly screwing over
Anyone with special noncombat skills could get a fixed salary, and, if I'm understanding the proposal right, the captain might not actually end up retaining much of the profit in practical terms after the ship's operation and repair expenses, and the crew's disability or death benefits, are subtracted from that 10x share. Commanding a battle means responsibility for the results of that battle, right? http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2009-02-28

By way of comparison, that sheriff you bribed probably has about four times the annual income of either of the accompanying knights, and ten to twenty times that of footsoldiers, without a similar risk of ruinous expenses.

Being a hedge witch, rather than an ordained priest or dynastic sorcerer or collegiate wizard or something, means you've got an idiosyncratic personal approach to magic. If every such quirk was stamped out according to a standard template, that would rather defeat the point.

That said, anybody who can do magic on their own, without alchemical reagents or herbal extracts or pre-enchanted tools or the intercession of a higher power, can also (dimly) perceive magic through their various senses. They'll contextualize it differently, and notice different details, three blind men describing an elephant and so on, but it's all fundamentally the same thing. There are spells which enhance this ability in various ways, most notably a minor technique which allows active scanning: higher resolution, able to penetrate some solid objects, but it's got limited range and requires concentration.

Riv can prepare spells once she's had at least a day to compile a sheaf of notes.
No. 100592 ID: 74225c

I had an idea for a spell for Marijke while I was driving today- curse of monotony. A target is forced to continuously repeat and continue a routine or simple action, and cause them to zone out or essentially slip into a light sleep unless they're confronted by significant stimuli. Basically, think highway-hypnosis except extended to a wide variety of monotanous or boring route tasks.
No. 100594 ID: a075ba

If we're going to write death expenses into the charter in that way, I certainly have no complaints about bolstering the captains' pay. (Although considering the horror-ish setting and the inherent disposability of PCs, that might not work out so well here. Nevermind the costs it would take to locate, let alone contact, next of kin for several of the crew. We're also lacking a studied non-denominational chaplain; we can only offer services in the name of a trade-god and demon-god of undeath).

Honestly if people think my character deserves a raise, go ahead. It will certainly warm her greedy little heart.
No. 100597 ID: a107fd

As part of signing up for the crew, somebody might have to specify contact info for next-of-kin, or other final wishes as appropriate. "Bring my body to a fully equipped healer's guildhouse and pay them to zap it back to life" might be a valid option.

Exactly how much you're supposed to pay out in such cases might be another thing you'd want to write explicitly in the charter. The example I saw just listed the rate for loss of a limb and then said "for lesser hurts, proportionately."
No. 100617 ID: cea69d

* hour shift today so I'll try and get you guys a map tonight after I get off sorry !
No. 100644 ID: a107fd

It's also fine if somebody else wants to try mapping. No significant time pressure here, you could easily trade off who's on tour.

Or should I go ahead to describing the servant's quarters and library?
No. 100676 ID: cea69d

Hey, sorry I wasn't really present, it's been a rough couple of days. Do we wanna still do the map thing even though you've described the other rooms and such?
No. 100678 ID: a107fd

Yes, mapping the place is still relevant. Go for it.
No. 100688 ID: a107fd

Some find it puzzling that dwarves are classified as eohippoid, when their overall body plan is more typically elvenoid, with only two legs and no wings. But, consider: what most distinguishes dwarves, green and grey alike, from humans, elves, or orcs?
They are broadly built, with muscles suited to endurance over speed - like plow horses.
They are crafty, but easily distracted by love of gold - like crows.
They are patient and wise, but mainly on morbid subjects - like owls.
No. 100689 ID: 0ae7f9

Would Than have some extra resistance to mind control and eldritch horrors now? Just only a small bonus for being exposed to them each at least once?
No. 100690 ID: 0ae7f9

fucking firefox
i would switch to chrome but my pc is too garbo
No. 100712 ID: a075ba

I think part of the problem is no one OOC is really interested in the nitty gritty of ratifying a formal charter. It's time consuming and... somewhat uninteresting compared to the actually doing adventures stuff?

Plus the inherent problem of trying to make a formal contract for an abstraction we're playing in means I'm going to overlook or assume something that proves important later, and amendments to the constitution are easier said then done.

Whatever, I'll spit out something quick, now.

>Loot rates
Good standing, didn't participate: 0.75x
Standard share (participated): 1x
Bonus (heroism, taking risk for crew): 1.25x
Captain: 10x (at the assistance of at least one other play, my GM, and my own character's greed)

Quartermaster's Fund (to be used by the quartermaster to pay for common expenses, separate from his or her own cut of the loot): 6x

Add up the total loot, add up all the shares, solve for x, and then use x to solve for everyone's individual cut. Seem reasonable?

Actual percents open to editing if people think they're in the wrong place. Could also be a rule where the quartermaster's fund can be tapped to pay dividends to the crew if it's growing faster than expenses?

>conduct on shore leave
If you cause damage or other trouble in port, and someone needs to be paid off as a result, it comes out of your share of the loot.

Was elected by a majority of the crew. Replacing her or throwing her out requires either an appropriate challenge (not sure how we restrict appropriate- don't want to be challenged to a duel anytime anyone wants to do something), or some kind of vote of no confidence from a super-majority of the crew.

>leaving the crew
There should probably be some provisions for people who either decide to leave with their loot, or for people to be tossed out if they're troublemakers who just won't listen to reason or work with anyone (captain's order and/or a majority of the crew could chuck someone). Complicated by the fact something like half the crew was introduced as slaves and the charter and/or captain technically owns them? I don't want to trap people forever, but there shouldn't be a loophole where say, Rixxil can just choose to leave at the first opportunity. Minimum terms or earnings for dragooned crew?

>death benefits
I don't think Marijke is as lawful as Tagon. Or at least, she doesn't have that same ingrained military sense of responsibility. She's not going to suggest death benefits out of her own pay. (Though she could probably be talked into it).

That said, I see nothing wrong with the charter providing for basic services and/or last wishes, contacting next of kin, medical expenses below a certain threshold, etc. Plus some cap on how much the charter and/or captain will pay for. (If you want a full resurrection with all the bells and whistles in a distant port, you better have the money to pay for it out of pocket).

Does that cover what it needs to? I spent too long on that and it's still pretty vague in places.
No. 100714 ID: a107fd

All in favor?
No. 100722 ID: 0ae7f9

No. 100733 ID: 4201a2

>bonus based on performance
Who exactly decides the heroism bonus? Is it going to be DM fiat? I didn't see either a crew vote or a decision from Marijke before we got >>/quest/732134 in which Riv is among the people who received a heroism bonus, despite not being part of the crew for the majority of the chapter? The rest of the charter looks good.

>people to be tossed out
I'd like to address this topic actually. I'm starting to have a little trouble differentiating between people's IC distaste for my characters and OOC distaste for me as a player. I know the entire crew is disgusted with Garaile for taking the ear, and detests Llyr for being knife-happy, which seems reasonable, if unfortunate for my characters. I also understand people here are probably frustrated and annoyed with me for expressing a lot of controversial opinions here in the disthread. I'd really like to get along and work together with everyone to have a fun and interesting game experience, so if you've got some personal grievances about me, please let me know what I can do, and I'll try to fix it. It doesn't make me happy to be told my characters will probably be kicked out of the party, lose all their powers, be prevented from joining the party on adventures, or be turned into NPCs because of poor decisions I've made. And so far, it seems that every decision I've made in-game has been a poor one in everyone else's eyes, starting from the moment I opted to conserve water instead of extinguishing an NPC Sgt. Nick.

If the majority of people here really don't want me participating in the quest anymore, just say so instead of taking it out on my characters. I'll have them kill each other, and change to being a quiet observer of everyone else playing. It's becoming difficult for me to enjoy playing with both the DM and the other players berating me every time I make an unusual decision, for RP purposes or otherwise. Sorry if this post comes off as being childish or whiny.
No. 100735 ID: a075ba

I'm not sure what metric would be used to grant the bonus. Either the captain, or recognition by the crew? Or maybe something more informal- other members of the crew have to nominate individuals, and a sufficient number of the other members of the raid have to second it?

In this particular engagement, I was thinking specifically of Than and Letkra for volunteering to enter the place ahead of the group. Being the tip of the spear can not-infrequently lead to being snapped off. (We could just make it a rule that volunteering for a dangerous front line position, or other combat role cut off from support merits hazard pay).

Riv would not have earned the bonus. She didn't choose to put herself at risk for the benefit of the mission- she choose to take a risk for her own survival / freedom and/or was was compelled to act by her circumstances.

More broadly, I'm unsure on how exactly we count crew who just joined and/or who were just forced to join. One could argue they weren't part of the crew yet, so they deserve nothing, but that would probably be terrible for recruitment and newbie morale. We could give them a recruitment bonus, but honestly, that doesn't seem very pirate-y, and flipping to the winning side is an easy choice. We want to give them something- it makes them feel part of the crew, and gives them a taste of what they could earn (especially important for conscripts). I guess it comes down to giving them the standard rate, or the reduced rate for coming in late?

>I'm starting to have a little trouble differentiating between people's IC distaste for my characters and OOC distaste for me as a player. I know the entire crew is disgusted with Garaile for taking the ear, and detests Llyr for being knife-happy
I don't know about everyone else, but I played up my in-character reaction to the ear-taking because it was fun to do so and reacting to stuff is part of role-playing. It didn't damage Garaile's interpersonal standing with Marijke. (Especially not considering Garaile had just ended an immediate and serious threat to her life, and said threat was the subject of the mutilation). OOC, the trophy taking was unexpected, but didn't sour my opinion of you.

The knife toss I think got blown out of proportion. You made a gameplay decision I disagreed with, and I only called back to Nick to try and remind you team-killing was a real and relatively easy prospect, and I would like to stay alive, please? Making what I saw as a bad call doesn't merit kicking you out of the game, or hate, or anything of the like.

If we want to lay in character blame for Nick, Marijke deserves at least as much as Garaile. She (accidentally) lit him on fire, and then chose to run with the others, putting personal safety above trying to help. (...Not that she would admit to that level of responsibility, herself. She sees it as terrible fortune and nothing she could do).

>provisions for leaving
I'm sorry if that came across as something aimed at you! I pretty much assume all the PCs are going to keep going until they get killed, or accumulate sufficient wealth to retire and do some non-pirate as-happy-as-this-setting-gets ending.

I brought that up thinking of the npcs. We have a lot of them, quite a few who are technically enslaved (and/or who aren't here willingly), and eventually some of them are going to earn enough gold and/or confidence to want out, or find opportunities to pursue other goals. I figured that means we need rules on how / when a pirate is allowed to retire / cash out, especially if they never signed on by choice.

And you know, there's the not-impossible situation where we're going to end up with an npc who's actively working against us or sabotaging us. We want to be able to give them the boot if that happens!
No. 100742 ID: a107fd

My logic on Riv getting the bonus was that she was active inside the neogi base at the same time Letkra and Than were, before the rest of the group moved in, stole back the sapphire (worth more than the additional pay in itself), and actively volunteered to join the crew, while Llyr was stuck in the slave pit until after the entrance was overrun, and accepted an offer rather than actively seeking it out.

Excluding Llyr from the payroll entirely was an honest mistake, for which I apologize. It's not my intention to make anyone feel unwelcome. By the logic presented, he should get a standard share.

The ogre gets a 'non-participant' share for only joining the crew after the raid was over. Taken together, that creates an incentive for slaves and other low-echelon types on the opposing force to defect to your side in a swift and profitable manner, at least once the policy becomes more widely known.

If that's not how you meant to do it, just let me know and I'll refigure the math accordingly. I see my role here as more simulationist than narrativist: a setting that you're exploring, not a plot you're proceeding along. It's up to you how to make the key decisions about managing your own company, or otherwise going on adventures, then I'll chew through the petty or obvious decisions such as task order
and consider environmental factors, NPC action, and the hilariously variable will of the Dice Gods, to figure out the result. Finally, I give you whatever information you need (though limited by what could reasonably be available at that point) to figure out what to do next.
No. 100743 ID: a107fd

> In favor of the charter?
Letkra is initially confused that wealth distribution isn't an automatic even share for all present participants, but sees no problem with it and thus says aye. She may get confused if people start talking about provisions for death, though.

OOC, I have no strong opinion about it but that all sounds pretty reasonable. That said, given Letkra's physical leanings, understanding of danger, and actual physical ability to recover from injury, it might make sense if she volunteers to be part of "the tip of the spear" pretty often... but she's probably going to cause some chaos if she's trying to play diplomat/representative for everyone else, and if she's explicitly supposed to be killing something, she's probably going to be weirded out if it's not attacking first or assuming a combat stance (like if we decide to gank a giant bird to steal some eggs- and birdmeat- for food, or somesuch).

> IC distaste for my characters and OOC distaste for me as a player
I have no distaste OOC for anyone here.

I can think of times I was confused, maybe (Yeven Sturgis had quite a language barrier, but I liked to read that as some sort of side effect of the demonic position, a sort of aura of madness), but never frustrated or insulted or anything.

Any general fail to respond quickly or participate well on my own part is probably due to RL stress (likewise, I may miss something, even though I generally try to catch up on both threads). JamesLeng does this (RPG stuff) naturally and relaxes by doing it, but I have to work myself up to it and get my creative writing and reading comprehension capacitors all booted up.
No. 100745 ID: a075ba

That's reasonable logic. It can stand.
No. 100773 ID: 0ae7f9

When in doubt, throw your energy shield. If it can project lasers while it spins, even better.
If it cuts off one of my limbs, even worse. If it detonates highly explosively midair decimating my character and maybe some others, okay then.
No. 100867 ID: cea69d
File 146724883718.png - (14.32KB , 1430x926 , Map rough 1.png )

rolled 6, 6, 6 = 18

hey guys sorry I haven't been active in a while, there's been a death in the family and I'm having trouble getting back into things. The therapist says social activities like this are good for me though and is encouraging me to keep playing so by tomorrow I hope to be active at least once a day again.
First off I attached a file which is a VERY WRONG MAP. I realized that in order for things to work the hallways with the bedrooms likely need to lead up, not the the side. that being said I don't have time to finish and rework it tonight so hopefully tomorrow I'll post something mostly correct. Just thought that that is funny once I realized what I was doing wrong.
Anyways, map coming soon, and I haven't read anything yet so I'll respond to new stuff tomorrow as well
No. 100873 ID: 0ae7f9

holy shit even your dice says something is wrong. sorry about your loss. UNLUCKY
No. 100915 ID: cea69d
File 146731278009.png - (10.42KB , 1250x802 , Map rough 1.png )

rolled 4, 4, 3 = 11

This should be closer but I'm still missing something. Any advice anyone?
No. 100990 ID: a107fd

>rolled 6, 6, 6 = 18
Not gonna to be able to sell this surveying equipment back when you're done. Numbers on the dioptra are in the wrong order now, those poles have some sort of scabby mold oozing out of them in sharp-edged asymmetric patterns, and the cord's tangled up like a whole row of pretzels, though it still appears straight when you look down it lengthwise.

The other kitchen door (to the servant's quarters) is right in the center of the opposite wall, relative to the door to the bar.

Two of the bedrooms share a wall with the tavern.

If the bead curtains and staircase weren't in the way, you could stand with your back to one "employees only" door and look straight down one corridor, across the tavern, down the other corridor, and see the other "employees only" door roughly 60' ahead of you.

Unless you were standing inside the servant's quarters, in which case you'd be looking at the other side of the same door, and it would only be about 20' away.

This will not fit on a flat plane.
No. 101011 ID: cea69d

Alright I'll try to draw up new plans soon, work schedule permitting.
TO everyone in the party, hopefully you all will see this, it may be worth offering to take on Gary, and head to the soggy monks with him. Obviously he needs something from them, and if he would use the mace as a barter tool rather than the wagon, why not just travel with him? He seems like a useful guy who can teach us lots, and there are those of us who would be interested in vanquishing our waterlogged competitors, namely the self proclaimed protector of Kobolds. Riv herself would not suggest this outloud to anyone, but I thought it might be worth bringing up for consideration OOC.
Secondly, can you all think of anything else we might want to add to the shopping list? We do have a quartermaster fund for a reason, if you think it wise o captain my captain, stocking up on food, water, spirits, and basic supplies like that might not be a bad use of our gold, especially with a wagon to keep them in.
No. 101069 ID: a107fd

This should probably go in the actual quest thread.
No. 101247 ID: a107fd

As previously noted, this game is a hybrid of GURPS and Pathfinder. You can gain skills, languages, and other 'learnable traits' with long hours of training, study, and practice, by the GURPS rules, but rapid and drastic across-the-board boosts to your capabilities, that is, 'leveling up,' requires the accumulation of XP. You get XP in exactly three ways:
1) Surviving immediate, personal danger
2) Frivolous sensual gratification
3) Success at international politics

For example, if you pick a fight with a monster and win, you get XP. If you pick a fight with the same monster and lose, but flee, or are captured alive, you get exactly the same amount of XP. If you fight and are slain, you get no XP... unless somebody brings you back to life before the fight's over. Losing a fight does generally mean you're less likely to get treasure, and salable loot could then be spent on e.g. ale and whores, for more XP with slim to no associated risk of death.

How much XP you get for the ale is based on it's intrinsic deliciousness, rather than strict cash equivalency. A stolen bottle of fine sippin' whiskey provides more XP than a jug of swill someone swindled you into overpaying for. Stealing will, naturally, have other consequences.
No. 101250 ID: 716fdd

Sorry I keep forgetting to post the other suggestion in the main thread- getting my grandmothers house ready to sell has been a big time suck but the map is being worked on, hopefully I'll finish it by the time we sort out buying the wagon.

In terms of Rix, I see a few options:

1) teleportation spell. Don't know what circle of magic this would be but I assume there are a few different ways to do this.
>Teleport a small area out of Rix. Obviously this runs the risk of teleporting vital tissue, considering we know little about Rixxil Kas' anatomy and what might be necessary for survival. If the arrowhead is already lodged in this area it's hard to know for certain as its not having a heart attack or anything, but we can't tell for sure what damage we'll do
> teleport the arrowhead specifically out, which might be trickier, especially if only marking can sense where it is. Seems less risky, but I'm unsure how high a circle of magic that is and what the caveats would be
> teleport a specific material, like, stone, out of a radius, which would hopefully teleport the stone out of its body. This doesn't require us to target the arrowhead specifically, so it may be easier (hopefully) to just teleport it away. Again, not sure what circle of magic and the risks involved.

Another option is using a spell that mimics the effects of stone meld or something of that nature, allowing Rixxil to walk into a stone wall and back out, hopefully leaving the arrowhead behind. In pathfinder this is a fairly low level spell, but then again this isn't exactly that spell, and it's not exactly that setting.

Alternatively, we could try either phasing Rixxil or the arrow head partially out of this plane, kind of like a blink spell, that way the arrow head could be easily separated from Rix. This seems like high caliber magic though, if we want it to be any way reliable or useable for surgery.

Lastly, Gary is already mentioning seeing soggy monks about the business of resurrections. Could be that we try our luck, and if anything goes badly we invite Gary to the crew and travel with him. If we go that route though it's worth noting he was trading a 3rd tier named weapon for a resurrection or something if the sorts- may be more trouble than it's worth. Rixxil Kas is useful in a mirrade of ways, so regulars for its life is probably warranted. Also, before anything like that happened you'd probably want him to teach you to open the lock box before hand

The idea of transmuting the material doesn't seem bad- the problem is we don't know what might be toxic to a creature with alien anatomy- throwing off the ph by dumping a bunch of random organic material could be deadly as well. Imagine if someone turned the lump of lead stuck in your chest into cheese- sure you can break it down under normal circumstance, but having cheese floating around in your body isn't really healthy either. Any forgone body lodged inpropperly poses a threat, we just don't make bullets out of cheese because they don't have very good ballistic properties.
No. 101253 ID: a107fd

>hopefully I'll finish it by the time we sort out buying the wagon.
You are too late, the wagon has already been bought.
>And that should seal the deal on the cart and we can move in.

Lot of creative ideas, though, at least some of which are workable!
No. 101254 ID: 5415ca

>You are too late
Whoops! In that case would it be fesable to have bought everything on the list minus the griffin in small trips an brought it back to the wagon in manageable pieces? I'll sort out what to carry with me later but for now having it is good enough

In regards to your previous comment that some might even work, I want Marjikes opinion on what we SHOULD do but if you could outline just how reasonable some of those are, and what we would be capable of pulling off, I think it would help me get an idea what Options we have
No. 101255 ID: 5415ca

Disregard that last reply I hadn't seen the reply in the main thread yet as I'm on mobile
No. 101303 ID: a107fd

>manton effect
after wikiwalking and reading Worm, up through 3.1 so far, along with a few tangentially relevant fanfics
If you're a low-end magic user, and want to kill people, your best bet is blades, bludgeons, and blazing fire, in various combinations, with maybe some magical trickery to set it all up and keep yourself out of harm's way, because teleportation isn't even possible yet. By the time it becomes a realistic option, the foes that require your full attention tend to have various exotic defenses to match the exotic attacks, so you might as well put in the extra effort to expand your capabilities (in more predictable ways than hit-or-miss spell research) rather than merely expending them... why bother killing, if they're worth more alive, one way or another? Some chump peasant may be easier to tear apart than an inanimate side of beef, but also has a higher resale value. Sun Tzu said it best:
>Consequently, the art of using troops is this: When ten to the enemy's one, surround him. When five times his strength, attack him. If double his strength, divide him. If equally matched, you may engage him with some good plan. If weaker numerically, be capable of withdrawing. And if in all respects unequal, be capable of eluding him, for a small force is but booty for one more powerful.

Yes, sometimes, somebody gets the idea that indiscriminate slaughter might work more to their advantage. Somebody like, say, the Church of Orcus, with their affinity for undead. Notice how said church's current strategic disposition might be uncharitably characterized as "cowering in deep, narrow tunnels, where conventional armies and elder dragons can't readily reach." Consider further the condition of their known alliances. Who was loyal to Mesifin Styx, when he needed it most? Certainly not the spider riders.

So, in this setting, there's something like the Manton effect, but it operates on an overtly political, rather than metaphysical, level. Want to know why the Drakocracy prefers duels, skirmishes, and slave raiding over Aztec-style sacrifices, or WWI-style trenches and WMDs? It's a tricky question, deeply entangled with the collapse of a major previous worldwide political system and the establishment of the current one. Might be some clues in those ancient ruins, mixed up with all the treasure.
No. 101310 ID: a075ba

I almost feel like I should apologize. Although if I wanna did the hole deeper, the general art-student approach to hand-waving magic on the basis of connections and what's sympathetic versus conflicting is more inspired by Pact than Worm.

But to your point: a world (or at least a kingdom) where the culture has accepted that using people is preferable to killing them on a wide scale has some interesting implications.
No. 101327 ID: cea69d

Again, sorry about the map. It should have taken me a day to do but I'm having a lot of trouble piecing together the layout. For whatever reason it just have no fucking clue how the rooms connect so it's hard to draw out, and with full time work + funeral prep and getting the house ready to sell and $1000 dollars in car repairs finding the time I need has been harder still. Car should be fixed by Tuesday though and the funeral prep is all almost done so I should have some spare time this week to try and catch up
No. 101332 ID: a107fd

Draw out the individual rooms and hand off the assembly problem to somebody else.
No. 101392 ID: 4201a2

>exp for success at international politics and frivolous sensual gratification
So no exp for political success if it's only on the national level? It's truly a rough road to becoming Head of State.
What exactly qualifies as 'frivolous sensual gratification', besides drinking and sex? Garaile is inherently non-hedonistic, but is no stranger to self-indulgent behavior.

>lots of discussion about thaumaturgical science
This was probably answered already and I missed it, but what circle of magic would be necessary to be able to just yank the arrowhead out and heal the wound? And also, have we considered a more mundane form of healing, like a compressed bandage? Surely if it were lodged in some vital organ, Rix would already be long dead.

How does Garaile's Lay on Hands / PE Channeling compare to conventional healing spells, metaphysically? Pathfinder doesn't differentiate different types of healing, but given the difference in flavor it's not unreasonable to think GURPS might grant that they have a fundamental difference in healing technique. Perhaps that's just wishful thinking on my part though.
No. 101437 ID: a107fd

I'm thinking about posting a description of the first room in the dungeon under the Mouth of Doom, in case anyone wants to start on another (small) expedition while the ritual/surgery is still in planning stages. Plenty of people have been to that first room and returned safely. It includes some clues I've been itching to share, and at least one of the visible doors isn't even trapped! Downside is, it's something none of the PCs are directly observing right now. Any opinions?

>So no exp for political success if it's only on the national level?
If you're one of the top ten-or-so people in a government that has, at minimum, direct authority over a hundred square miles, most major good news for that government is also good for your XP total. You could be a bishop who advises some baron, or the captain of the guard, or something like that, but it has to be a position with some degree of executive power, rather than courtiers or middle management.

>What exactly qualifies as 'frivolous sensual gratification', besides drinking and sex?
Fine food, music, art... other recreational drugs, of course... anything people seek out, and at least sometimes pay for, just to have the joy of the experience rather than for survival, tactical advantage, or social posturing.

>what circle of magic would be necessary to be able to just yank the arrowhead out and heal the wound?
Sufficiently repetitive application of first and second-circle stuff can fix almost anything. In principle, someone could completely vivisect Rixxil Kas, disassemble it's body like a broken watch, and then put it all back together with nothing but Least True Healing and Lymphatic Auditor. The process would be slow, expensive, and torturous. If you mean fixing everything that can be wrong with a body in one shot, without knowing exactly what's wrong, that's up around the sixth or seventh circle, maybe higher depending on how broad a definition of "everything."
>Surely if it were lodged in some vital organ, Rix would already be long dead.
And if it missed anything vital, but still caused some slow internal bleeding? As a soldier, Garaile would have heard stories of someone receiving a seemingly minor head or chest injury, collapsing after a week or more, and having the doctors say afterward that something could've been done if only it'd been noticed sooner. Rix was shot less than a week ago, and had Marijke's "free sample" healing to keep any symptoms under control.
>How does Garaile's Lay on Hands / PE Channeling compare to conventional healing spells, metaphysically?
As referenced in a previous discussion of critical failures, Marijke's spells operate differently than, say, those of the three acolytes, despite having the same intended effects in many cases. Garaile's ability to channel energy (directly from the Old God whose sacred number is four) isn't a spell at all. Remember how Mesifin Styx kept throwing around that aura of death, despite head trauma and everything else? Wouldn't have been possible to cast spells under those conditions. As for difference in effect, it's similar to the distinction between purely magical healing potions, and alchemical healing elixirs: more effect at lower cost under many circumstances, some risk of complications, fails outright at bringing back the dead (pending a special upgrade).
No. 101461 ID: a107fd

> anything people seek out, and at least sometimes pay for, just to have the joy of the experience rather than for survival, tactical advantage, or social posturing.

Does collecting trophies count as this? I'm thinking of toy collectors, for example. In Garaille's case, some of the grisly trophies may have some intimidation factor (or cause reaction penalties) so they might involve social posturing, but they're also stuff he's collecting and carrying around just for it's own sake as an end in itself, impractically. Especially anything he keeps that isn't all that visible, just because he wants it.

> Riv's confusion about the weird 3+D map
I can completely relate. I have never passed any kind of driving test. Even with games; Mario 64 is vastly more difficult then SMB2j/The Lost Levels for me, because navigating in 3D is just that confusing. Especially since this would appear to connect to itself in some physically-improbable fashion. I'd almost be inclined to write down a list of letters, and take each room separately, then put corresponding letters (A and A, B and B, etc) on places where they're stated to connect.

What about elevation, as asked previously? How can that be checked in-character, or written on a map, generally?

> Dungeon
Letkra has some kind of notion that everywhere is somewhere she should go eventually, and we did just stock up in a town, which means she'd be up for going to a dungeon. But she's not going to run off from the rest of the party to do that.
No. 101463 ID: a107fd

>Does collecting trophies count as this?
Not the actual process of collecting, but if "Sir" Garaile makes a point to spend time admiring his own handiwork, particularly time which could have been otherwise productive, that'll earn XP proportional to the quality and rarity of the trophy being obsessed over.

>I'd almost be inclined to write down a list of letters, and take each room separately, then put corresponding letters (A and A, B and B, etc) on places where they're stated to connect.
That's what I meant by this:

>What about elevation, as asked previously? How can that be checked in-character, or written on a map, generally?
Floors in the "basement" aren't noticeably slanted, and the only visible stairs are at the entrance. It appears that all the rooms are on the same level, or at least vary by no more than a handspan. You could double-check that in various ways, rolling marbles around, a glass tube in a particular shape full of colored water and a bubble, and so on. Unfortunately something seems to have ruined the current set of surveyor's tools.

As for notation, I could point you to some relevant articles on the Alexandrian blog, and through there to other D&D enthusiasts and real-world professional cave explorers.

>But she's not going to run off from the rest of the party to do that.
Maybe spend exactly one night laying motionless in bed, then scrape together a squad for another day of adventures?
No. 101475 ID: a075ba

I guess if the mapping out the layout of the cart-ship (maybe we should christen that at some point) is important to the magic ritual surgery, and Riv's character hasn't been able to take a crack it I, might give it a try? (OOC)

And yeah, I have no objections if some of the more action-oriented characters want to go off on a mini adventure. I was feeling a little guilty that this problem my character was apparently given to solve was dominating things.

>Sufficiently repetitive application of first and second-circle stuff can fix almost anything. In principle, someone could completely vivisect Rixxil Kas, disassemble it's body like a broken watch, and then put it all back together with nothing but Least True Healing and Lymphatic Auditor. The process would be slow, expensive, and torturous.
I want to assume this would require a more thorough understanding of Rixxil's biology than we currently have, and that our supply of first circle healing isn't arbitrarily large enough to pull it of.
No. 101502 ID: a107fd

>give [mapping] a try?
Go for it. Being a team means helping each other out when somebody's struggling.

>I want to assume this would require a more thorough understanding of Rixxil's biology than we currently have, and that our supply of first circle healing isn't arbitrarily large enough to pull it of.
It could work. You'd need to roll for the surgery, with penalties for unfamiliarity, and lack of proper anaesthetic, and whatever else. Every failed roll wastes time and causes more injury. Eventually you either succeed at the roll to find the arrowhead, or do enough damage that the patient is broken up into pieces an arrowhead wouldn't fit inside of. Then you keep the damage from getting worse with Staunch Bleeding or the corpse-preservation thing, and push the avalanche back uphill with Least True Healing. How many applications of healing depends on how much the surgery went wrong, and the surgery would likely need either a crit success or some extraordinary bonuses.
No. 101511 ID: 3d2d5f

Okay, mapping, questions after rereading room descriptions:

Does only having a left handrail mean I can assume the staircase is against the right wall of the room, or is it centered and just unsafe on the right side? (Or do the stairs run along the back wall, depositing guests in the middle of the wall). Is the stair enclosed in the room, or does it come up to the edge of the room, like a bulkhead?

I assume the bar runs across the far side of the room, perpendicular to the stairs?

Can I assume the right hand bedrooms are a mirror image of the left?

What are the dimensions of the cart above the stairs?
No. 101515 ID: 3d2d5f

Haha, it's a cube. Each room is on a different face of the cube, and the doors flip you by 90 degrees.

(I'll draw something digital when I get home, right now I'm just got it mocked up on sticky notes).

There's inconsistency if the rooms / faces are 20' or 21' square. Do some have thicker wall paneling, or is this just a measuring error from a less than perfect roll?
No. 101526 ID: a107fd

>centered and just unsafe on the right side
Only four feet wide, though, so somebody falling off the right side might be able to grab the handrail to their left, or for that matter, the ceiling.
>it come up to the edge of the room, like a bulkhead
Various forms of investigation (such as having two or more people go around tapping on walls and noting where the echoes are audible) will reveal that there's a hollow space under the stairs, which is accessible via the warded door in the library.
>the bar runs across the far side of the room, perpendicular to the stairs?
>the right hand bedrooms are a mirror image of the left?
>Haha, it's a cube. Each room is on a different face of the cube, and the doors flip you by 90 degrees.
Yes! Though it would be more correct to say it's a 4-dimensional platonic solid, squashed from 21' to 8' along one axis, with the two cubic faces perpendicular to that axis impaled on a stairwell-like length of pipe.

Does the thing about parallel and perpendicular spaces, for the ritual, make more sense now?

>Do some have thicker wall paneling, or is this just a measuring error from a less than perfect roll?
Little of both. Wooden beams six inches, even an entire foot thick wouldn't be unreasonable for the load-bearing walls in some retired adventurer's final contingency bunker.
No. 101531 ID: 2e2d71
File 146854637343.png - (29.59KB , 542x795 , Floorplan01.png )

Okay. Here's my flattened cube.


* Pantry location not specified
* Stove location not specified
* It's not clear where the stovepipe leads. (Outside? ...Outside?).
* Kitchen Counter layout not specified
* Other furnishings (tables, chairs, beds, bookshelves, etc) not shown
* Should be to scale, but I omitted / ignored the slight discrepancy between the 20' and 21' foot rooms and made the 6 faces symmetrical.
* Bedrooms numbered to make claiming them easier later. (The captain wants one of the big ones, of course).

If we want similar spaces across and adjacent to the ritual, we probably want to do the ritual in bedroom 3, with a receiving site in bedroom 2 (projectile cuts through the empty cube), and a backup receiving site in 4 (travels along the face of the cube).

...or if we want more landing sites and crossing the cube in the middle is less important, we'd use the servant rooms since there's a nice grid of them.
No. 101541 ID: a107fd

>Pantry location not specified
Back corner, by #7. Those slabs of unmelting ice bolted to the wall may have contributed to the arrival of undead in #1, if only indirectly by making it colder and thus less hospitable.

>Stove location not specified
Right in the center, with plenty of ceramic tiles on the surrounding floor and ceiling for fire safety.

>It's not clear where the stovepipe leads.
Indeed. Further study may be warranted.

>Kitchen Counter layout not specified
Scullery in the other back corner, near #10, and a pair of big L-shaped islands.
>Other furnishings (tables, chairs, beds, bookshelves, etc) not shown
Everything else is small or modular enough to be moved around, likely because it had to be brought in through the door. Out of character, I figured there wasn't much point nailing down every stool and end-table in a place you're soon going to reshape for your own use.

>and a backup receiving site in 4 (travels along the face of the cube).
"Along the face" means either through 3-space, which is what you're trying to avoid with these teleportation shenanigans, or along a curved path, the complexity of which would negate the benefits of operating in a folded-up pocket dimension.

Easiest way to do it would be to have the patient situated in the exact center of one room, receiver at the exact center of the opposite room, and elaborate diagrams forming a continuous ring across the other four rooms. Any asymmetry can introduce complications. Exact center of the kitchen is about ten inches above the stovetop, corresponding to a shelf in the library focused on lurid, possibly fictionalized play-by-play accounts of Passholdt's history of organized crime and associated race riots. Exact center of either pair of bedrooms is, of course, inaccessible pending carpentry. Exact centers of the entry hall and servants quarters aren't so clearly marked, and that path's the least convenient to draw a ring around.
No. 101617 ID: 2e2d71

Is it okay if the circle's broken? If we did the ritual in the kitchen (or library, entry, or servant's quarters), the circle we drew would be a N-S line in the map I drew, terminating at the stairs at both ends.

The lack of a clearly marked center in the entry or the servant's quarters doesn't seem like much of an impediment. Run some rope / string along the diagonals and you've found the center where they intersect, plus Riv has surveying tools.

Also, there's only a few tables and chairs to move out of the way in the entry, and a curtains in the servant's quarters can be moved out of the way temporarily. (The bigger annoyance is the vertical component).

The library / kitchen setup doesn't look so bad, though. With a little muscle and/or Riv rigging up something, we could have a proper platform assembled over the stove or where the bookshelf is.
No. 101633 ID: a107fd

>Is it okay if the circle's broken?

A broken circle wouldn't be ideal, but usually small flaws in a ritual setup are manageable when there's no active opposition. Something like a blessing on the crops or a wedding ceremony tends to be a bit more error-tolerant than, say, summoning and binding a demon. Picture it like a horseshoe magnet: invisible field lines still connect across the gap, unless something blocks them. What might be blocking them in this case? Are there anomalies in spacetime, malevolent spirits, heavy wards, or anything else like that, anywhere in or near the stairs, to the best of your knowledge?

>If we did the ritual in the kitchen (or library, entry, or servant's quarters), the circle we drew would be a N-S line in the map I drew, terminating at the stairs at both ends.

No, you'd want the north-south circle for a line between the bedroom sides. Kitchen/library would want a circle parallel to (possibly in) the bedroom hallway, while entry hall/servants quarters would want a circle going through... several walls.
No. 101646 ID: 2e2d71

Oh, perpendicular between, not opposite points on.

That pretty much leaves kitchen / library as the best location, with the circle through the hall.

The hall is off center between them (close to the library) but maybe we could offset that by taking advantage of the ridiculous height in that room? (Jury rig something, have Lektra turn her shield into a temporary platform?).

Since the library is close to "nowhere", I would think that would make it more downhill / the lower energy state, and probably better for the receiving end.
No. 101667 ID: a107fd

Alright, sounds like we've got a plan. Biggest question remaining is, are you going to attempt the surgery/teleportation ritual more or less immediately? Or have Riv rig up some kind of life support system to buy time, while you mail-order specialized tools, conduct research, etc.?
No. 101669 ID: a107fd

>“You conned us into playing dungeons and dragons!”
No. 101750 ID: cea69d

Very sorry I've been out for long. As you know my situation isn't ideal right now but I'll try to get back into the swing of things and be more active. Thank you very very much for getting the room layout taken care of. I could hardly figure out the t shaped curtain in the servants quarters. Like Mitsukara, I have significant difficulty with spacial reasoning and 3d mapping, so I really appreciate the assist.
No. 101784 ID: 4201a2

I'm still around, but I'm not really sure what the party is interested in doing, and my characters aren't in any position to lead the plot.
It seems like everyone is scattered, and it's unlikely we'll be able to get anything done in the near future, until we can reconvene.

I'm ready and willing to go wherever and do whatever the party wants to do, whenever the plots starts moving again.
No. 101785 ID: cea69d

I understand you're interested in protecting the Kobolds- whether your character thinks they're safe enough in a town to go out adventuring is up to you. Either way, Letkra is interested in dungeon diving, and I would assume Lyr is a little hungry for action. Perhaps one or both of your characters could accompany her to explore the dungeon of doom that was recently described?
No. 101786 ID: a107fd

Finished Worm, starting on Pact.
No. 101790 ID: 2e2d71

I didn't even think or ordering specialized tools (and I'm not sure how long we'd be stuck in one place sending out a message and waiting for delivery. Keeping a group of adventures too long idle in one place might be more dangerous than rushing, actually).

I'm kind of surprised we're assuming Riv knows enough alien biology to make a compatible life support system? What is it even for in this case: if everything goes right, Rixxil will be unharmed, and if it goes wrong, well, Rixxil will either be torn up like wet tissue paper when a sharp pieces of metal rips itself out of it, or end up ripped to pieces, stretched across non-euclidean geometries, or trapped "nowhere" or wherever the bow goes. In the first of those fail-cases, a life support system might buy the emergency casting and surgery some margin... but on the whole, I'm rather skeptical anything that could be produced would make enough of a difference. I guess if Riv has the time?

Now, investing effort to make sure we've designed and set up the ritual properly seems worth stalling (a day, maybe two) for, assuming Rixxil doesn't require immediate intervention. Try to increase our odds of success and of patient survival, and decrease the risk of letting in horrors from outside reality.

Probably worth skimming the library for something relevant- that book we noticed before on alien biology coded as architecture might help, for instance.
No. 101799 ID: cea69d

I was assuming our fair GM was implying not a life support system in case of critical failure, but more of a stabilizing system until we're ready to preform surgery. Again though, we've hardly asked Rix anything. Our want for knowledge might be lessened if we talk to it.
No. 101800 ID: a107fd

>assuming Riv knows enough alien biology to make a compatible life support system
Among the crew, Riv spent the most time around neogi, AND knows the most alchemy, particularly on the subject of radically modifying her own blood chemistry. IV dextrose for meal replacement doesn't require all that much in-depth knowledge of physiology: you just need to match the salinity, pH, etc., of the patient's blood plasma, while excluding infectious or potentially allergenic contaminants, which seems like the kind of thing a gadgeteer alchemist might be able to to. Blood sample from Rixxil => analyze => replicate => add sugar => inject. Not to say that it'd be completely safe, but it's at least a conceivable thing to attempt.

>assuming Rixxil doesn't require immediate intervention
Rixxil hasn't eaten much at all since being shot, due to injured digestive organs. Neogi apparently need food about as much as mammals of similar mass, so another day or two would escalate that to the life-threatening level. Basic healing magic can reverse any actual tissue necrosis, including that which results from starvation, but it can't completely replace nutrients, can't refill the belly. The patient would still be starved into a coma.

There are certain moderately-obvious benefits and drawbacks to performing a magical ritual, or major surgery, on someone who's already starved or otherwise weakened to the point of being barely conscious. Such benefits are superceded, in this case, by the subject being fully cooperative and magically controlled besides. Drawbacks remain relevant.

>that book we noticed before on alien biology coded as architecture
Recognizing the presence of such a code is not the same as cracking the code well enough to derive new knowledge, and then internalizing that knowledge enough to apply it medically. Nico, with his translator parasite, and the rest of the library to cross-reference, and everything else, could almost certainly make useful progress in a month or so of full time work.

>how long we'd be stuck in one place sending out a message and waiting for delivery
The general store can get a short coded message to wholesalers in Passholdt same-day, through magical devices and techniques proprietary to the Merchant's Guild. Procurement and shipping has a bit more variability, but it's a major trade hub, and then straight downstream. Maybe a week? Two, at most, for anything routinely sold but too specialized or low-margin for a small outpost to stock. Five to ten gold worth of such tools and materials would be worth at least +1 to the chances of success, and many would be reusable for future projects.

If you want some kind of custom commission work, like the folks Gary hired to install those wards in the library, or anything that can't legally be packed in an ordinary crate and loaded on a riverboat, that takes longer, and mail-order probably isn't the best approach.
No. 101802 ID: cea69d

Putting my response in the main thread since it seemed more like taking actual action than just discussion and planning that doesn't require everyone
No. 101803 ID: cea69d

Another, nother question: Rixxil Kas is an "eel-tick" correct? Is that the same thing as a umber hulk? Or did I miss something when we all discussed that last thread
No. 101810 ID: a107fd

Neogi have six legs and two arms on a basically arachnoid body plan, with a long sinuous neck and fuzzy football-shaped abdomen. They're called eel-ticks by the ogres because of the cosmetic similarity to a giant tick attached to an eel's butt, all in a fancy costume.

Umber Hulks are beetle-like, all chitinous armor and compound eyes and scything mandibles, but laid out on a gorilla's body plan, stoop-shouldered bipeds that can knuckle-walk.

They're as closely related as humans are to dogs, and to hear Rixxil Kas describe it, there's an even tighter symbiosis between the two species. Neogi get nowhere without domestic umbers doing all the dirty work, and umbers would be strategically helpless without neogi supervision.
No. 101811 ID: cea69d

Got it! Thanks for the clarification
No. 101833 ID: 2e2d71

>Maybe a week?
Unless Riv (or someone else) whipped up a treatment that improved / stabilized Rixxil's condition, we probably do not want to delay that long.

Yeah, sorry, my character got kind of distracted by the surgery side-quest to keep her horrible bug monster psychic slave alive.

Your character's immediate options would either to be to poke around in the nearby dungeon for easy loot (along with Lektra and probably a few of the npcs) or to work on some interpersonal stuff. Lyr could be getting to know someone (or find himself awkwardly working with the golem completely unaware she terrifies him), Garaile could be working on improving his fame / standing in some way, or finding a project he could lead the kobolds on. Or either of them could be training, sparing, practicing, working on something? (There's probably more options, those are just what jump immediately to my mind).
No. 101840 ID: cea69d

Teaching the Kobolds to defend themselves sounds both honorable and fun actually.
No. 101848 ID: 4201a2

That's actually a pretty good idea. As soon the kobolds get back from having sex with random strangers, Garaile will teach them how to protect themselves from random strangers. :L
No. 101851 ID: a107fd

Being flirted at, reacting with confusion and fear =/= having sex with
No. 101852 ID: 4201a2

I've clearly misread something then. Can you give me a list of the current status of every crewmember?
No. 101854 ID: a107fd

Gunderbag the ogre: bench-pressing the wagon
All 3 Kobolds: sitting in the Black Boar Inn's common room, being served and doted on by Ysbel the barmaid, who considers them cute
Marijke: in the extradimensional basement, probably library, taking measurements and plotting out a local teleportation ritual
Rixxil Kas: in the extradimensional basement, probably servant's quarters, receiving medical care involving blood tests
Riv: in the extradimensional basement, probably kitchen, administering aforementioned blood tests as part of cooking up a batch of replacement blood
Nico Nashville: either assisting Marijke or providing entertainment in the common room
Eadric the Parrot: either assisting Nico or practicing spoken Humish independently
Than: hunting a bear, will return before sundown on day 8
Ravenous Llyr: assisting Than
Dimitry "the white snake" Nicola & Acolyte Goris: kinky sex
Hazel-eyed Tallie the barmaid & Acolyte Altsoba: completely different kinky sex
Garibald the Mysterious Cloaked Figure & Acolyte Eswic: drunken nostalgia
Letkra: Resting At The Inn (lying motionless in a bed for exactly 8 hours)
unnamed giant octopus mind-slave: looking for food somewhere out on the coast
"Sir" Garaile: well, that's up to you.
No. 101885 ID: cea69d

Forgive me for using a tumblr link but I thought this would pertain to our collective interests http://jumpingjacktrash.tumblr.com/post/143638846494/ive-been-thinking-about-this-for-a-while-but-how
No. 101888 ID: cea69d

Question: are tieflings or aasimar represented in your world? Furthermore, what about monsters like Minotaurs?
No. 101917 ID: a107fd

Close contact with certain spiritual beings (including most sapient ghosts, all logos-mobile demons, nonspherical Messengers of the Benevolent Principle, and adult 'true' dragons) can result in parthenogenetic pregnancies, with the resultant children often bearing visible mutations, wielding exotic supernatural powers, and/or founding sorcerous dynasties. Some of these effects manifest in a later generation (grandchildren, etc.) or crop up seemingly at random, but none 'breed true' consistently enough to be widely considered a separate race.

Minotaurs would be eohippoids, and thus theoretically capable of interbreeding with e.g. centaurs or dwarves.
No. 101923 ID: cea69d

Cool beans. Could we possibly hear some of the qualifying traits of the five groups sentient creatures fall into? For example you told us a bit about the troll life cycle, but what makes an Eohippiod different from an Elvaniod and so forth?
No. 101924 ID: a107fd

Elvenoids would probably be called "humanoids" if elves weren't so stuck-up and insistent on defining the language around themselves. It's basically a spectrum from elves to orcs, with humans in the middle. Not a lot of natural variation beyond the cosmetic, although (as cases like White Snake demonstrate) they're the most vulnerable to magical mutation.

Eohippoids can mostly be described in terms of combinations of human, equine, and avian traits. Centaur is approximated as a horse with the head and neck replaced by a human from the waist up, minotaur and satyr are both more or less humans with hooves and horns, sphinx has human face, quadruped body, and wings, etc.

I'd prefer to explain this stuff when it comes up in the course of play rather than as OOC/"background knowledge" infodumps. If you want to learn more, go on adventures, or do IC research with the materials already available.

Rixxil Kas can maintain four mind-bondaged slaves (the octopus, plus three open slots) so if you're concerned about the risks of dungeon delving, Marijke could instruct it to conscript some outlaws, or forest animals, as expendable scouts.
No. 101927 ID: 24100f

>so if you're concerned about the risks of dungeon delving, Marijke could instruct it to conscript some outlaws, or forest animals, as expendable scouts.
Oh gods.

No. 101936 ID: 4201a2

>hiring even more npcs
A polite reminder to the party that, since the addition of the ogre, we are still struggling to keep our current roster sustainably fed.
No. 101937 ID: a107fd

Exactly so. You see, the thing about outlaws is, they're not exiled from any specific municipality, but rather from the protection of Drakocratic law in general. Taking away an outlaw's purse or clothing is not theft, and killing them is not murder. Life expectancy for outlaws in the Forest of Hope is a matter of weeks, even with heroic types and ruthlessly efficient bandits dragging the average upward.
No. 101939 ID: a107fd

>sustainably fed

Remember that bear Than killed? That's 150 pounds of good meat, plus enough "store credit" just from the pelt to cover everybody's tab for at least a week without spending any gold. Aggressive megafauna and infamous bandits are available in sufficient quantity that you could plausibly collect more bounties before that runs out - not without risk, but you're skilled adventurers, and you've got plenty of healers on the team. Actual dungeon delving could get you even more money, fast, and, well... armies are a fairly standard sink for large budgets. Figured I should outline the possibilities.
No. 102018 ID: 24aec8

Heard about this effect, thought Riv could put it to good use of the resources are available in town
No. 102080 ID: a107fd

It would probably be not only simpler, but more tactically useful, to brew up something that produces actual chemical burns, rather than a complex and highly circumstantial delayed reaction which resembles chemical burns. Unless you had some specific plan in mind?
No. 102090 ID: cea69d

You're probably right! I didn't have anything specific I just thought "hm, wild carrots can give you sunburn? Sounds useful!" Real acid and chemicals burns however would probably be much more useful
No. 102178 ID: 790a81

Just to be clear, Riv's opinions are not a reflection of my own so when she argues it's not because I don't like what everyone's doing, it's just that she is a passionate and strongly opinionated character
No. 102263 ID: cea69d

Confirming this is Riv, posting from a different computer.
My question however is would it ruin anyone's fun for Riv to attempt to kill Marjike? It's not something that's likely to happen, but Riv currently still sees herself in a servant position, and while she wouldn't outright challenge you for position of captain, if she saw you bleeding out in your bed right now she might decide she has more to gain by letting you die and convincing the others to follow her lead. She doesn't care about being captain, and carries no real hostility towards you per say, but the opportunity to gain so much power and so many resources might be worth the risk to her.
I want to ask you player to player though because this is supposed to be a game we can all enjoy and I realize that's kind of a dick move, so if something like that would ruin the game for you I would definitely choose to do something else. RP is fun, but I'm not here to ruin anyone's day and I figure that could be kind of a bummer.
Again though, just hypothetical. Thought I'd ask and know in case anything like that happened in the future and/or right now.
No. 102267 ID: 24100f

Wow, fourth level! (We got second level right before the conflict in goblintown, I've forgotten when third happened?)

That is some masterfully shiver inducing flavor text to go along with it to.

Now, if you don't mind, I have lots of questions, because I made assumptions about what spells did before, and they weren't all right.

>one new free sample-like ability
Does that mean these things are only usable as free samples (unlike previous spells which were free-sample-able and spell-slot-prepare-able)? Or if these are spells, what circle level are they? Or do you mean this is a non-spell ability in the same manner giving free samples is?

Am I getting all those spells and picking one to make free-sample-able, or am I choosing which to get and passing on the others? (I'm assuming the later).

>s) Maniacal Laughter
I'm assuming a hostile hex? Forces the target to laugh uncontrollably if they fail a will save? Or... does this place some kind of magical effect on the sound of my own laughter? (Supervillian evil laugh power).

>b) tranforming Eadric into a gemstone and back
For smuggling him into places, or for ripping people off in trades? For making him less fragile? Preventing him from needing to eat when we're low on food? So he can be used a focus for casting? It's very interesting / intriguing flavor wise, although I'm not 100% sure on the utility.

>c) alchemy
That's pretty broad. Is it just the ability to practice alchemy, comparable to Riv? Is it some more narrow effect?

>d) teamwork
A bonus to actions that involve working with others? Or is this a more specific ability with a broad name?

>e) flight
Well that's self explanatory, at least. Subject to what limitations? Duration, weight, can I grant others flight, or is it self targeting only?

Self only, or can it be cast on others? Are the illusions dispelled when attacked, or are they on a timer, so if you keep moving around a decoy could draw more than 1 hit a battle?

>"Penalty clause"
So it's a trigger, right? Break condition X, activate secondary spell Y. Does that mean it eats two spell castings to set up?

>"Least astral courier"
Yay, apportation. I assume objects have to visible or otherwise observed by the caster? And/or need to be marked in some way.

>>Lots of Riv stuff
Geeze, that's like 3 posts in the time it took me to commute home. I'll respond to your stuff in a minute.
No. 102268 ID: 24100f

>would it ruin anyone's fun for Riv to attempt to kill Marjike?
Well, out of character I would certainly be annoyed to have been killed, and moreso if by deliberate player action. (Nice way to repay the healbot, even if you do have spare npc clerics). I can't say it's not a valid roleplaying decision, though I'd prefer not to be violently at odds with other players?

In-universe, it might ruin Riv's fun.

A direct challenge for the captain's role would have to be answered harshly (it's not good if the scrawny new girl is challenging your authority like that). You might expect her to light the mummy on fire, or to sic Rixxil on her (assuming mind controlled slaves are fair to use in duels, but then again, who would be able to tell the mental attack came from it and not me?) or some similarly harsh response. Marijke would probably feel pretty guilty about it later, moreso than with Nic.

Negligent homicide / forgoing medical attention would be a violation of at least the spirit of the charter, though maybe not the letter. (Something Riv should be aware of, considering she got roped into Rixxil's medical care).

Riv might have diplomatic problems after: offing the captain without first winning over a good portion of the crew could end badly. Especially the higher level characters who survived the underground with Marijke. The new captain could find herself quickly ousted in turn or subject to retribution. There's also the problem of showing others you can't be trusted to help them if they need it. Plus, there's the problem my death would likely free Rixxil, who has little reason to love the escaped slave who added to its embarrassing defeat, and would probably try to set the crew against each other and/or make a power grab if free.
No. 102269 ID: a107fd

You get all three spells, and one (of the five possible) non-spell abilities.

Maniacal laughter doesn't do much by itself, but can be used to extend the duration of certain other effects (including free-sample charms) while the subjects are within earshot.

Tesserflecked is self-only, but also applies to Eadric if he's nearby. Illusory decoys shatter after one direct hit each, but ignore area attacks, or anything else that would sweep through all of them at once.

Example for the use of penalty clause: you tie someone to a chair, cut across their forehead, cast penalty clause specifying "don't lie to me," and then cast least true healing. If they consider intentionally misleading you in any way during the subsequent interrogation, they'll feel a little warning twinge, and if they do so anyway, the healing will be undone, causing the gash in their forehead to re-open and resume bleeding into their eyes. So, yes, two slots, but it removes a spell, rather than adding anything when triggered.

>I assume objects have to visible or otherwise observed by the caster? And/or need to be marked in some way.
There's some flexibility, but the simplest way to do it is to be able to see one end of the path, and touch the other. Range and weight capacity comparable to, say, tying the target to a brick and throwing it, major benefit being that it won't break any intervening windows.

Alchemy, Flight, and Teamwork are subtle but permanent realignments or extensions of your whole magical self. Details of functionality are a bit vague, but no matter which you pick, you'll have opportunities to come back for the others at higher levels. Alchemy has some overlap with what Riv does, although it's more about efficiency than innovation, and Teamwork would be the most useful if you're planning to interact at length with the coven on the coast.
No. 102272 ID: 93325c

To address what Marjike was saying, I will probably refrain from taking any hostile actions against the crew. Riv isn't very personable but she's supposed to be quite smart, and all of those things are things I thought about. Not worrying about in game consequences, I just wanted to know how you personally would feel if Riv did anything dirty or underhanded to Marjike. Like I said I want everyone to have fun, and trying to kill you in your sleep would not only be a bad move on her part but a dick move from me. I personally don't mind if my characters die because I have about 12 slotted up, but I don't wanna ruin your day by offing Marjike yanno? Again I promise this isn't me like trying to threaten you or anything. Riv is hostile and anti-social but she's not going to put herself in that kind of danger. You may want to address her quirks in character though otherwise she's going to continue to be standoffish with the crew. If want any alchemy or anything for the party though she'll pretty much do anything you ask
No. 102273 ID: a107fd

> I personally don't mind if my characters die because I have about 12 slotted up I personally don't mind if my characters die because I have about 12 slotted up

Riv could challenge Marijke for the captaincy. Simple duel, stand on a raft out in the river, whoever gets set on fire first loses. Marijke probably uses the same spell she used on Sgt. Nick, Riv probably gets incapacitated to an appallingly comprehensive extent but not quite killed, you introduce a new character. Once Riv recovers, multiball.
No. 102278 ID: 24100f

Hmm. I think I can rule out maniacal laughter. Extended buffs have obvious utility (and it could pair with whisper web to keep people in range) but that doesn't really feel a right character fit.

I think I can rule out alchemy and flight on similar reasoning. Obvious utility to both maybe I'll get 'em later, but I don't think I'm leaning potion witch, and flight doesn't seem as important for social stuff and support as it might for a more combat oriented mage.

That leaves Teamwork, which is possibly very relevant to someone who relies on their negotiating skills, leadership position, or mind magic to gain cooperation of others.

And... the gemstone familiar, which I am really attracted to for flavor reasons even if the utility is less obvious. Could I ask for more detail there? Is it one back and forth a day, or is it something that can be played with more than that? (Seems like something that would be fun to flick back and forth). Is there a possible upgrade route there? (Instead of obsidian butterflies, maybe a crystalline macaw, all razor sharp carbon edges and refracted light).

>So, yes, two slots, but it removes a spell, rather than adding anything when triggered.
Ah, that's actually an interesting way to do it, with the healing reserves I have. It weaponizes them.

Don't sweat it. I'm not offended batting around hypotheticals, and I'm not, uh, terribly worried about being murdered.

Addressing quirks in character might take a little time (unless someone else does) after that late night interruption and the subsequent blood collection Marijke is probably too irritated at / frustrated with Riv to focus on managing personalities.

Um, I'm sure there's plenty of ways to commit suicide / maiming by cop other than attacking the captain, guys! There's a world full of people you could offend or go off half cocked at! Kick a bear, or go insult the necromancer's bounty hunter wife in front of him. Eh?
No. 102280 ID: 24aec8

Nah I'm not so anxious to roll other characters that I'm ready to write Riv off. I'm enjoying playing someone so erratic. If we end up deeper in the dungeon while Riv is in the wagon I may want to roll a L other character at that point, but for now I'm satisfied enough not to go out of character just to get another one in. Just want to let you guys know I won't be personally hurt if anything happens to her- she abrasive and condescending and all together hard to work with so if anything does happen don't spare her on my part. In character RP is pretty much my favorite part of table top games so I just want everyone to feel comfortable staying true to their characters
No. 102282 ID: a107fd

As a gemstone, Eadric would be the size of a grape, and generally function like an intelligent magic item (which is the upgrade path) instead of an animal. No limbs, no metabolism. Same HP total, but rock is harder to damage than feathers and skin over hollow bones. Change back and forth mostly at will.
No. 102283 ID: a107fd

So CalimariGod isn't dead, apparently. Let's hope Nico Nashville will return from NPC status soon.
No. 102292 ID: 3d2d5f

Okay, I cannot resist the fun of the lucre witch having a familiar that can transform into a gemstone at will. It's just too perfect, utility be damned. Choice made.
No. 102297 ID: 24aec8

I've been sick and home from work so I've got nothing to do but sleep and reply to quests. I don't wanna clog up the main thread with just my responses though, as Marjije said I've been replying quite a bit.
No. 102299 ID: a107fd

That's why I was suggesting you could have additional characters, for variety.
No. 102302 ID: cea69d

I was mostly worried about dominating chat with responses as a player not necessarily as a specific character. I just want to give everyone else a chance to do a bit more before I continue to spam chat. I figure once we get things rolling in the dungeon everyone will have a little more screen time and activity, and I won't feel so bad about constantly posting
No. 102304 ID: a107fd

Well, given that you're going to be participating so much, might be better to spread that activity across more characters. Given that Riv's a bit antisocial, might be more inclusive to have some character who's motivated to bring the crew together rather than pursue her own interests at their expense.

And, keep in mind, as with Garaile and Llyr, momentary incapacitation is enough.
No. 102307 ID: cea69d

If you think it's for the best then I'm more than happy to build someone who could be perhaps found in the dungeon? Since the party needs more heavy hitters and more healing then I've got a couple of characters that might fit the bill alright-
-A lizardman Cavalier named pip who was an all around beefcake and also rode a huge sized dire frilled lizard who was also a fucking beefcake. CN, followed the order of luck, so he just does what the coin tells him to
-Athalon, an aasimar druid who focused on growing leashies and other plant companions. NG, healing spells, could turn into tanky animals to soak up damage.
-Stone, an aasimar oracle with the ancestor line up. NG, was focused on party buffs and healing, had a curse that penalized him for moving and gave him poor initiative and such.
- Dorrak Iron-horn, a sacred fist Minotaur. Half celestial template and focused on healing, non-violence, interested in stopping global conflicts and followers of Gorum.

These few would probably sit best with the party but I'm not sure how easy it would be to convert some of these character ideas into your game so I wanted to throw them all out and see what you think would work best in your universe.
No. 102319 ID: a107fd

Describe whichever one you want, within the character-creation format established at the start of thread 1.
No. 102323 ID: cea69d

Name: Stone
Class: Hedge Witch
Specialization: Spirits
Higher Ambition: Rid himself of his ancestors
Lower Ambition: Put the dead at ease, lay spirits to rest, give solace to the fallen
Phobia: Drowning/Deep Water
Mutation: Constantly "plauged" by the spirits of his ancestors. Most others cannot see or hear them, and while they are on good terms with Stone (for the most part), they are an unending constant, not unlike tinnitus, and are rather annoying. Extra-sensory perception and counsel, but a nuisance.
Super Natural Vulnerability: On His left side from just above the hip, he has been turned to stone. His leg is immobile, heavy, and as it is a magical curse, breaking it is expensive as well as difficult.
Innate Power: Can commune with the dead and see the past in places where spiritual energy is strong. The stronger the energy, the further into the past he can see, and the more clarity he can tell. The grave of an old man who lived a good life wouldn't tell him much other than the fact that his spirit is at peace, but a young girl betrayed by her allies and murdered in a violent struggle would be highly visible.
Candles, Right hip
Chain Armor, Right Shoulder
fortified wine, left hip
Iron Statue of a 4 armed woman, covered in blood, a necklace of heads adorning her neck, a dripping long sword clasped in her arms, neck
Spear, left shoulder

Stone is a follower of The Goddess simply known as "The Black One". 4 generations before his birth, his family was cursed by a witch, so that all of their blood would slowly find their bodies turning to stone, and that once fully petrified, their spirits would find no rest. His family line however, carried on, and Stone was born the seventh son of a seventh son, giving him great power. The spirits of his family latched onto him, and now beg for him to break the curse and give them solace. They seek to protect him so that he can free them, and he seeks a way to free them so that he can finally attain peace and privacy for the first time in his life. He hopes that by freeing his family and himself of their curse he will be at peace when he dies. He was in the dungeon seeking coin and perhaps answers or clues at to where he might travel next in his quest
Note: The stone grows slowly, over a number of years. Most of his family would live into their 30s, but because of the strong magic flowing through Stone's veins, the curse is slowed, although not stopped entirely. He is 29 and the stone is currently covering roughly a 5th of his body.
No. 102324 ID: cea69d

Plate, head
Coin, hidden uncomfortably
No. 102331 ID: a107fd

First of all, looks like you've got four interrelated higher ambitions and no real lower ambition.
Stone leg should be the mutation. For vulnerability, how about tendency to be possessed, even by spirits that wouldn't normally be able to, and maybe thermosensitive epilepsy?

Postcognition is fine as a power. Potentially very useful on a plot level, but it's not going to win any fights by itself.
No. 102335 ID: a107fd

Thinking about this a little more, we could combine the postcognition and ancestral advisor things into one "context-sensitive help menu" sort of power. Select an object or location within range of your senses, and the spirits of your ancestors will tell you whatever they can observe or remember about the target's spiritual condition and history. You can't ask specific questions; they'll always recite from the same script for a given subject until something changes, and if you cut them off partway through, only option for hearing the rest is to start over from the beginning.

Higher-circle divination spells will have some distinct advantages, but I don't think they'd make it irrelevant, either.
No. 102340 ID: cea69d

Sounds good! The reason I listed the ancestors thing as a mutation and the leg thing as a super natural vulnerability is simply because his ancestors follow him and stuff due to him being the 7th of a 7th, and the leg thing was a magical curse. I'm fine labeling or categorizing them however.
For the higher ambition/lower ambition his higher ambition is specifically to break his families curse and find peace for himself and his ancestor. His lower ambition is to help other spirits who cannot rest because he can feel their pain and anguish. One is self serving, the other is a more of a hobby.
Also the post cognition is mostly for information gathering and such; I used to play Diablo III a lot and the witch doctor class would always talk about what the spirits would tell him and such, so this is inspired by that. I was planning on him mostly using combat spells, stuff like spirit weapon, or haunting people etc. Also because he's surround by ancestors and stuff, he has limited mobility obviously, but foresight into a lot of things other people might not see coming. He can be warned of danger in his sleep, essentially has all around vision and blind fight because ghosts don't really care about light levels etc. Does that sound like an acceptable load out/design? I'm looking at the oracle of bones load out from pathfinder from a mechanics aspect
No. 102341 ID: a107fd

>lower ambition
I'd rather have it be an actual vice, something unrelated to the ghost stuff, to make the character a bit less one-note.
>oracle of bones
I was thinking more of the Spiritualist class, from Occult Adventures.
No. 102342 ID: cd7462

I hadn't looked into occult classes much but that seems to fit the bill pretty well. As for a vice, Stone has a weakness for opiates, as they allow him to someone tune out the constant company of his ethereal family. He also has somewhat of an interest in necromancy and magical arts pertaining to the dead. He often collects arms and heads from foes he has slain to shrink and dry in order to fashion into jewelry as is the traditional garb of his Goddess
Changing my screen name to santova, it's what I normally go by on line. I figure if I'm rolling multiple characters I'll just use their name in the main thread when they take an action.
As a hedge witch will stone start with the same load out of spells? Or will he be looking at a slightly different load out?
No. 102343 ID: a107fd

Same number of spells, but if you'd like different ones... well, what are you looking for?
No. 102344 ID: a107fd

The mechanics for the partially petrified medium here seem to be in a workable condition, but as for thematics and party dynamics... seems a bit similar to Than's "cursed, haunted loner" thing. How friendly is Stone with the living?
No. 102345 ID: cea69d

Stone is friendly and encouraging towards most; As his quest is not one with a set way point or destination, he usually travels acting as a medium for those who have lost loved ones, villages haunted by poltergeist, etc etc so that he can fill his stomach and sleep indoors at night. He likes to use his knowledge of the dead to put people at ease with their lives and their future, in a similar way to fortune telling "mystics" who promise love and wealth to gullible travelers. He could be described as "phlegmatic". Every action he makes is deliberate, and he does not speak or move without purpose. Not really altruistic or philanthropic, but at the very least he is considerate and a bit more gentle.
No. 102346 ID: cea69d

As for spells, gum fire just seemed a little out of character. Maybe something along the lines of a ethereal grey flame- light without heat like gum fire, but instead of sticking to things and being a physical object, it can be carried by his ancestors? Instead of dancing colors and lifting stains and such, he can surround himself with a ghostly visage, or stuff like mage hand since getting up and down can be a hassle for him. Mostly simple changes to the level 0 cantrips that make them a little less street magician and a little more haunted ghost man
No. 102357 ID: cea69d

So, I think I may be describing the acid-wrist thing inadequately. The idea was to create a half-sphere of shielding between the inside of my wrist and the acid. This bowl, which isn't permeable to acid, wouldn't prevent it from hurting me- acid burns around the area, possibly disabling the use of that hand until healed, glass shards etc. However, I was hoping it would keep it from getting inside my wrist too much. The shield would ideally re-direct the acid away from my body and out towards the target, keeping the damage mostly on the surface on the skin. If this idea isn't feasible I can understand that, but it seemed like what I was trying to make wasn't being conveyed.
No. 102359 ID: a107fd

The problem is the surgical implantation and concomitant proximity to your bloodstream. If you wanted an impact-activated corrosive weapon strapped to the outside of an acid-proof glove, that'd be a lot easier to pull off.

Alternatively, you could simply isolate one of your arms from the rest of your circulatory system! Ulman Dark knows several techniques for grafting an undead arm to somebody's shoulder so it's under their control, but not really part of their body.
No. 102360 ID: cea69d

Got it- those are both very cool idea and Riv may pursue the necrotic arm depending on the risks involved. The glove however she won't pursue as she is looking for a weapon she can conceal more easily and is much more difficult to disarm her of. Riv is all about those emergency, last ditch tools. She devoted like 5,000 gold in her previous life just in material components to tattoo spells to her body so she couldn't be caught without arms. I'm guessing though that there just isn't a feasible way for Riv to currently protect her blood stream and tendons and nerves and such, even with acid-shielding material?
No. 102361 ID: a107fd

Well, if you want to research and develop ways to neutralize dangerous chemicals in your bloodstream, that's much more workable. Alchemical antidotes, delay/neutralize poison spells, that sort of thing. Magical tattoos could be involved.
No. 102368 ID: 37c9ff

Duly noted- Riv may persue that line of research in the future. As for stone, is there anything else we need to establish before he's introduced in the dungeon excursion?
No. 102369 ID: a107fd

Well, Riv has to be incapacitated, at least for a few moments. How's that going to be arranged?
No. 102370 ID: cea69d

Few ideas
1) she trains her knife to hunt for blood, which it proceeds to do. This ends poorly for her, and she is then incapacitated
2) during the ritual, Riv is incapacitated. This one is iffy because they may be back from the dungeon by then, and if not, it seems rather dependent on rolls. We're gonna have to get luck to pull of the ritual so I can't really predict where or how she would go under during that, but it seems like a likely spot for something to incapacitate her
3) she is experimenting and fucks up. Again, vague, not sure exactly what would happen
4) she tries to give some life to the clockwork core she has, even without the extra parts she needs to give it mobility. A little blood from her, some hair, some bone marrow, and suddenly she's unconscious on a spirit quest to find a familiar
No. 102372 ID: cea69d

However, I thought being away from the action was enough- didn't we introduce Lyrr because our resident paladin in denial was passing time in the cart? Its cool if that's not how it works I'm just a little unsure of how it works
No. 102374 ID: a107fd

Technically, he got into a heated theological discussion with Eswic and Altsoba, one of whom then hit him with a temporary paralysis spell. At approximately the same time, Goris was using the same spell to murder an Umber Hulk.

Riv could take that relatively safe option, or attempt something more self-destructive in an attempt to shortcut the hundreds of gold in material costs for either building her familiar, or upgrading her knife to a first-tier named weapon. For the latter option, gimme a roll. Useful progress on a 12 or less, on a 3 or 4 you cut one of those projects down to fit in Riv's current budget (plus a lot of work), on a 13 or 14 the acolytes are distracted from preparations for Rixxil's ritual until they get Riv's condition stabilized, 15 or higher Riv dies (at least temporarily), and on a 17 or 18 something really bad happens.
No. 102375 ID: cea69d

>rolled 6, 6, 6 = 18
Well, hopefully Marjike just used up any bad luck floating around the area, because that's how probability works, right? That being said, Riv is fairly confident in her own abilities, especially now that she has a regular, working lab. She's gonna take some risks and try to make a magic knife- assuming it's roughly the same cost as a clock work familiar correct? Or is one significantly more expensive to create? Also, am I rolling for this here? Or in the main thread?
No. 102376 ID: 24100f

Yeah, I figure I just walked headfirst back into migraine land. That or I accidentally looked into the future and not the room and I'm staring at a time-displaced magic arrow coming to kill me.
No. 102377 ID: 4201a2

rolled 6, 1, 2 = 9

>upgrade to first-tier named weapon
Didn't realize this was something that could be done. I know it's far too late for Garaile to do anything now, but on the off-chance Garaile survives the dungeon, what would it take to upgrade Garaile's Raaxe to an officially-named non-mundane status? I like it and want to keep it viable/in good repair for the remainder of Garaile's days, if possible. Especially since magic weapons are much sturdier to mundane wear and tear.
No. 102378 ID: a107fd

Fair market price for enchanting a first-tier named weapon is a thousand gold, and it usually breaks down to about 40% "parts," 60% "labor." First-tier weapons are all, in some sense, the same, a standard broad-but-shallow package of increased accuracy and durability and capacity to cause harm, every defining characteristic of 'weapon-nature' raised just slightly beyond the pinnacle of mundane craftsmanship. More interesting traits only become possible with the upgrade to second tier, which costs three times as much. The scale is exponential.

An intelligent magic item would normally cost 250 gold just for the "AI core" equivalent, and lots more for any useful features, but Riv can rebuild her familiar, with all it's features, for only 300 gold worth of parts and about three days of full-time work (cannibalizing the lockbox would leave a lot of leftover bits for other projects), although that cost will go up as she gains levels, since a more elaborate familiar is trickier to replace, and a downgrade would be unconscionable.
No. 102379 ID: cea69d

Riv would like to start work on her familiar but she is deciding against cannibalizing the lock box behind Marjikes back. It was made pretty clear she can't afford it, and that Marjike is not will to give it to her. She doubts stealing 750 gold worth of plunder from the rest of her crew mates will end well for her. So without the parts she needs to upgrade her familiar she'll focus on upgrading her ability to defend herself, and focus on the knife. Would you like me to roll in this thread or the main thread?
No. 102380 ID: a107fd

Main thread for IC actions, always.
No. 102391 ID: a107fd

Wilderness: 10% chance of a random encounter every 4 hours, plus any time you do something that'd be visible (or audible, etc.) more than a mile away.
Current dungeon level: 25% chance of a random encounter every 30 minutes, plus any time you stand around chatting indecisively.

That's why successful delvers do as much planning as possible back at the inn: random barmaids and mysterious cloaked quest-givers and whatever else show up at most a few times per day, and don't attack on sight. Down below, wasting time gets you outflanked and overrun.
No. 102397 ID: 9e78bc

Looks like you guys shoulda bought a melee contingency kit. I'll have to remember to pick one of those up. Just FYI Riv rolled in the main thread a few posts ago, got a seven. Meaningful progress? Anything I need to do?
No. 102398 ID: 24100f

>melee contingency kit
I thought that was what I brought melee fighters for.
No. 102399 ID: 24100f

That advice seems to run directly counter to the format though. There's really no way to make any kind of decision without waiting for players to sound off, unless people run ahead on their own, or the captain makes all the calls (which might be tactically sound, but I don't want to do all the time. The quest format is supposed to be collaborative, and it's not interesting for one person to dominate everything. Especially since I mostly tagged along on the dungeon raid other people were more interested in as healer).
No. 102404 ID: 4201a2

>party will be punished for multilateral action
Okay, but you'll lose your ability to justify punishing us for making short-sighted decisions if we're no longer able to safely discuss our characters' options before taking action.

In a "Which Door" situation like this, this is the difference between "Garaile suggests we take the pentagram door based on so-and-so logic" and "Garaile, citing so-and-so logic, goes ahead through the pentagram door." This notably means Garaile would have been deprived of Marijke's input that there is a conditional binding trap behind the door, being forced to take action immediately instead waiting for complete information. Garaile therefore would have walked right into the trap which Marijke easily spotted and been unnecessarily entrapped by what is essentially OOC meta pressure on the players. In-game, each player sounding off is more-or-less simultaneous. Garaile detects, Marijke detects, kobold detects, etc. at the same time, and reporting such results should scarcely take a full minute, much less half and hour of loitering until skeletons show up. It's fine if that's how you want to run it, but you can't then turn around and say "Fool! You fell right into the trap Marijke was about to point out if you'd just waited to hear her input", because waiting for her input would be explicitly dangerous to the party and therefore unjustifiable.

>crit fail on a block
RIP Garaile's shield / shieldarm.
No. 102407 ID: a107fd

As for experiments with pushing the limits of the format, so far it's working out better than Fluorine Quest did.
>you can't then turn around and say "Fool! You fell right into the trap Marijke was about to point out if you'd just waited to hear her input"
You seem to be stuck in the mindset of this being an adversarial thing, where the GM is trying to screw over the players but is obligated to do so within a framework of rules - both game rules and an implicit social contract - in order to maintain credibility.
>I see my role here as more simulationist than narrativist: a setting that you're exploring, not a plot you're proceeding along.
I'm not trying to screw you over at all. Either there's a trap, or not. (In this case not, since Marijke is hallucinating/delusional.) You could determine the presence or absence of a trap with either a careful search, or various more direct experiments, some of which could result in injury or death. If you're seemingly committed to do something that would obviously be a bad idea, I might slow down to make sure you've absorbed relevant IC knowledge, but I won't ever mock your decisions, particularly not in retrospect. What would be the point? If Garaile, or Letkra, or anyone, is abruptly destroyed by forces they couldn't reasonably have anticipated... shit happens. Roll a new character, and hope somebody survives to learn from the situation.

You're in a dungeon. The light's not so great. Searching is slow, mapping is slow, being careful is slow, and going slow or making too much noise is dangerous because stuff will eventually show up and try to eat your face. Time is valuable. The decision to search for traps vs. charge ahead is a choice between two different sorts of danger. Mapping is difficult, but doing it well pays off because a good map means you can do more of your thinking back at the inn, away from time pressure, and because you can go faster through known areas next time.
No. 102421 ID: cea69d

Just a question: how are you gonna rule on Stone enjoying opiates? I wasn't envisioning him as being a heavy use addict, mostly because I already have a character built around that. Skald who is addicted to "keefe" and uses it to enhance her prowess in battle. I was wondering if for Stone though it could be more of a vice, like greed or rage. Something that's hard to say no to, but not so much a crutch that he can't survive without, albeit he may be more agitated and puke-y for a bit. Would you be alright working it similarly to that?
No. 102433 ID: 4201a2

Since the reasoning behind it is that he uses opiates to "tune out the constant company" of spirits, I imagine he'd be increasingly inclined towards acquisition and usage the more he uses his spirit powers and the more spirits happen to be around.
No. 102434 ID: cea69d

Doesn't sound unreasonable, although they're more for tuning out the constant company of his entire family, of which 4 generations are constantly following him in spectral form, rather than just general spirits and such
No. 102457 ID: cea69d

Not tryna rush you just letting you know Stone did reply so I'll wait on input about what happens before making any other actions
No. 102491 ID: a107fd

So, on whatever device you're using, it's somehow easier to attach a picture than to type "dice 3d6" in the e-mail field?
No. 102500 ID: 4201a2
File 147080404651.png - (77.88KB , 520x394 , critsuccess.png )

I wouldn't accept an image of a dice roll as legitimate. There's also no way sticking a tiny string of text in the email field is more difficult than taking a screenshot, cropping the image, and then attaching it. It's also extremely easy to cheat, since you can roll as many times as you want, and only post the roll you like.

Pic related: a critical success I definitely rolled on the first try, no really, you can trust me.

>Garaile being spelled wrong
It's fine. Most people ignore the quotes around "Sir" too, and even Llyr got mispelled as "Lyrr" once. It's still better than being completely ignored, or actively plotted against.
No. 102536 ID: 8ce800

I totally understand that there's no way to really garuntee my dice roll was legit, but like I said before for whatever reason the dice roll function doesn't work when I post from my phone- I type it in but no dice roll comes out. I would like to say that it's only marginally harder to cheat the TGchan system by deleting and reposting- we all just have to play on faith and hope that others are being honest. I will say, for whatever it counts, that that was an honest roll, no fudging. It's not really much of a fun game when you cheat in my opinion. Sorry for the inconvenience though, semantics asside I know it's really not the way we're trying to run things and I do appreciate that you'd rather I not roll that way, just figured it was better than posting the result I got, or just giving no roll at all. I'll wait until I'm home and use normal rolls once again later today
No. 102537 ID: 24100f

Maybe try turning off autocorrect? The way my phone messes up the dice function is by trying to capitalize "Dice", or by adding spaces where there's not supposed to be any.
No. 102540 ID: 398fe1

Admins can see deleted posts.
No. 102541 ID: 8ce800

rolled 3, 2, 1 = 6

No. 102542 ID: 8ce800

Well I'll be damned! I had no idea, thanks for the tip!
No. 102545 ID: a107fd

Really, if somebody was determined to cheat, they could just use TGchan's dice function and then delete the post repeatedly.

>plotted against
Aw man. I wanna give you a hug or something.
No. 102546 ID: 398fe1

>delete the post repeatedly.
Which like I said is rendered futile by the fact that admins can see deleted posts. Also, it's generally obvious when someone does something like that since it generates a large gap in post numbers.
No. 102551 ID: 8ce800

Again, good shout, didn't realize that! I do occasionally delete posts, as sometimes things go wrong like double postings and typos and such but as I said before, cheating really does take the fun out of the game for me so cross my heart and all that good stuff that im not deleting anything for gain
No. 102559 ID: a107fd

Just to clarify, I'm deliberately waiting on these in order to give somebody else (Marijke, Letkra, or Than) a chance to participate, instead of resolving the whole fight with rapid-fire posts while they're IC effectively stunned, OOC not checking the thread as often.
No. 102567 ID: 24100f

Oh, I was being lazy, sorry. Figured the bugs didn't merit higher circle spells, and the fighters seemed to have it in hand. But I suppose I can pitch in.
No. 102582 ID: a107fd

I'm not inclined to cheat, but I have no problem with anyone doing so, nor do I worry about it.

My reasons not to, myself, are:
- I don't want to be presumptuous about what the other players would be okay with
- I have no motivation to actually make the numbers go any particular way. I've got a character who can regenerate from many sorts of physical harm, with a physical harm fetish, and the character was conceived with potential 'bad end' scenarios in mind.
- I also have no agenda for what happens/doesn't happen to other players' characters, in general (aside from my character trying to protect them, and OOC trying not to be a jerk).
No. 102585 ID: a107fd

Participating in combat doesn't have to mean attacking, and attacking doesn't have to be with magic. Minor direct-damage effects compare unfavorably, in some respects, with a thrown knife or sling stone. As captain, you could also be giving orders for some tactical plan.
No. 102595 ID: 3d2d5f

Does Marijke have any proficiency with throwing knives? I was laboring under the assumption that tossing blades past allies in melee would be a bad idea if you don't know what you're doing.
No. 102609 ID: a107fd

Marijke doesn't have any special advantage with thrown knives, but it's within the broad scope of 'adventuring combat skills,' so as a 4th level hedge witch she's at least better than a random peasant. In terms of risks, the essential ranged-into-melee problem also applies to thrown fire, and giving Llyr a taste of his own recklessness might be piratical/poetical justice.
No. 102610 ID: 8ce800

Sorry about the confusing accent- I was remember the guards at the entrance to the cave mouth and struggling to decipher what they were saying; the intent was the same with stone, but would quickly be much more annoying to both write and read than the level of immersion gained. Just imagine him with a think and heavy accent,
No. 102614 ID: 24100f

Fair enough, though I would expect a mage to have at least more experience tossing fire than tossing objects.

Still, it's good to have a renewable combat option, as the zeroth circle fire effect is wanting.
No. 102633 ID: a107fd

Marijke's main focus is mercantile mind control, followed closely by medical support. That incident with Nick, less than two in-game weeks ago, may well have been the first time she ever used magical fire as an actual attack.
No. 102638 ID: 4201a2

>it's dangerous not to magically heal Llyr
???? Llyr has the supernatural ability to rapidly regenerate by eating meat, so it's just a waste to cast healing magic on him unless it's a grievous injury, poison, or if time is of the essence. Since he's currently in the process of devouring three giant centipedes, his shallow leg injury isn't going to stick around nearly long enough to become infected. We should be saving our limited healing magic for more serious situations ahead, and especially for the more fragile members of the party for whom injuries are more dangerous.
No. 102640 ID: 24100f

I forgot you had regen, to be honest.

Don't worry about burning reserves on my end, though. Staunch Bleeding is zeroth level, which doesn't exhaust slots. I can cast it all day.

I'm down 1 first level slot (The shadow armor on the kobold) and Garille's "free sample" of Least True Healing (and Marijke's, after the midnight bloody arrow incident). I can still hit every other member of the party with a free sample LTH, plus I've got 2 more prepared that could be used on anyone. (Plus whatever Garille can manage with his vague holy powers).
No. 102680 ID: 24aec8

I was going for an effect similar to this with Stone just now- this is a first level feat as far as I can tell, but the spell it mimics is level 7 so I'm not sure how you feel about that
No. 102700 ID: a107fd

Thought you'd be going for oracle rather than cleric, what with the whole curse thing. "Haunted" seems particularly appropriate. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses
No. 102706 ID: cea69d

Yeah Stones original character was an oracle of bones with some dips into cleric and a few eldritch heritage feats I have his character sheet if you're at all interested in stats and abilities. But he was mainly oracle with a little bit of channel energy and such
No. 102719 ID: a107fd

Dual-cursed, with Lame representing the stone leg? I could have some fun with that on the GURPS side of things, gradually adding elements of the Stone Body and Machine meta-traits.
>character sheet
Rather not. Let's see how it develops in this different environment. Besides, for Pathfinder purposes Stone isn't actually an oracle yet, just a 1st level adept. So, no commanding undead without at least getting a good night's sleep first... which would be possible with a bit more bandit hospitality.
No. 102763 ID: b9aa79

Yeah I figured that was a bit much for level one, but I was hoping with the description i provided of what I wanted to do, I might be able to cause a more minor level 0 effect like confuse them for a round or make them not notice me for a few seconds, something like that so I can pass by without fighting if I need to.
No. 102814 ID: a107fd

Finished Pact.
No. 103175 ID: 383927

with level ups is there anything special I need to give input into or will it just sort of unfold naturally? Also- goin for a "Magic Stone" style spell with Stone's most recent attack
No. 103202 ID: b9aa79

Just to clarify, the wine isn't actually supposed to be a special magic wine that you can't drink or anything like that. It's simply a culture thing for him- that's the special ritual wine, so it's only for rituals and not for merriment. So for Stone it has special meaning and purpose. Basically the equivalent of "pouring one out for your homies". The dead don't usually have distilleries where he's from, so offerings are one of the only ways spirits can get it according to Stone's culture.
No. 103207 ID: d41523

>a single coin and a partial mouse skeleton with skull intact as search results
Is this from a misc. search loot table somewhere? I have seen this oddly-specific result on a minor search from a completely different DM before.

Also, new ID from here on out.
No. 103243 ID: a107fd

Wasn't rolled up randomly, it was listed in the pre-made adventure. I've been modifying a few things on the fly to fit my setting, but saw no need to change that one.
No. 103294 ID: b9aa79

I started trying to think of ways for stone to quiz the zombies, ordering them to grunt if something he did violated a rule, seeing about smashing the lids rather than opening them, etc etc. Then I realized Stone pretty much just wouldn't care. Where Riv might see a challenge in this, almost like a puzzle to solve, Stone sees something that is put in place for a reason and is much more willing to let sleeping dogs lie. Need to remind myself not to play all the characters the same way.
No. 103308 ID: a107fd

Good call. Apart from the RP factor, walking corpses are neither clever nor self-aware enough to handle a conditional statement like "if this would conflict with other instructions." They're nonsapient automata, but built from dark energy and rotting meat rather than tidy deterministic clockwork, so straightforward tests of the sort Riv might use to probe their inner logic won't necessarily give consistent results.
No. 103481 ID: 383927

How massive are the braziers and how massive is that snake? I wasn't quite paying attention to their side of the chat so i was very taken aback by a giant snake appear from a flaming brazier. It was a very funny image (for me at least) because I was imagining wall sconces and then all of a sudden a giant snake springs out from one like one of those trick cans that says peanuts or something but has a horrible pop up snake inside
No. 103539 ID: d41523

Not to complain too much, but was a 9 really poor enough to get Garaile crippled again, despite fighting defensively, or did the snake roll a crit behind the scenes? It's a 37.5% chance to get a 9 or below on 3d6, and if that's enough to lose a limb each time, it's going to be pretty unlikely everyone survives this fight. In case it's relevant, >>/quest/747402 was my tank roll for Garaile, and >>/quest/747453 was intended to be Llyr's roll to join in, if applicable. I didn't think "fighting defensively" would be a separate roll from "tanking", since I assumed you were still using >>99618

Is it possible to get a stat break-down on that result, if for no other purpose but for a better understanding of how the combat system works?
No. 103540 ID: b9aa79

It may be too late to suggest this but if you can lodge the shield in the snake's mouth before climbing on it's back it might help. Additionally, with magical healing getting a fang through your arm is unfortunate but not a game over. The dungeon was quite ominously named- perhaps the party just isn't quite ready to take this kind of challenge. I would reckon it's not impossible to withdraw- the snake might be valuable to kill but is it worth Garaile's life?
Also did the fang not go in and out again? Or is it still in our resident "paladin"'s arm?
No. 103544 ID: a107fd

The roll of 9 and "tanking" was interpreted as total defense, and resulted in Garaile successfully blocking the snake's initial charge with his shield, incidentally sizing up it's special abilities, and worth as a trophy.

The roll of 14 and "fighting defensively" was interpreted as a new action, concentrating primarily on defense but also looking for reasonable chances to counterattack. The snake didn't roll a crit, Garaile's arm isn't crippled (though it might have been, if not for that scale armor sleeve), and he did manage to injure it somewhat with the axe.

The fireproof snake is naturally somewhat stronger and faster than "Sir" Garaile, equally skilled, and equally within it's specialty. Thus, average outcome is that he'd come away slightly worse from any given pass at arms. A 9 is slightly better than average, so he got a slightly better result, consistent with his declared action: neither side injured. A 14 is notably worse than average, but wouldn't be a critical failure unless incompetence or unreasonable risks reduced effective skill to 4 or less (which is definitely not the case), so something reasonably bad happens.

This snake is CR 5, so everybody who survives the engagement will get plenty of XP.
No. 103563 ID: 383927

Pretty scary- as far as I remember the party has 1 level 4, 3 level 3's, an ogre and some non-combatants. Good luck.
No. 103592 ID: dc887b

Garaile: Needs an alchemical solution

Riv, The Alchemist, Who's Job Is To Provide Alchemical Solutions: Passes out after mutilating herself in an attempt to make enough money for clockwork parts.

Rest Of Party: Sure is a good idea we let a deeply traumatized and possibly sociopathic child join our group; look how useful she is all the time when she's not stealing our blood and hissing at everyone. This is good. This is Fine.
No. 103593 ID: 3abd97

Don't worry, Marijke will find some way to wring a profit out of her!
No. 103636 ID: 1cb0ee

Good luck Garaile, you're the best tank we have at this point. Don't want to jinx it but this could be the end of our resident grumpy dad. I'll be pulling out my best dice rolls if I get a chance to mix something up for you
No. 103663 ID: b9aa79

I'm assuming the character being described is Stone- how does this intersect with me reaching the surface? Are we gonna back peddle just a bit or is something else going on?
No. 103669 ID: 3abd97

I was assuming we came up behind you just as you were admiring having reached the surface?
No. 103671 ID: b9aa79

so it seems!
No. 103674 ID: dc887b

Sass appreciated. Also as per usual don't feel the need to go easy on Stone just because he's got a PC behind him. Whatever happens I'm not particularly fussed, I just enjoy playing.
No. 103676 ID: d41523
File 147408068070.jpg - (10.14KB , 256x194 , humperdinck.jpg )

I actually didn't realize the suspicious figure surrounded by undead was your character, because I hadn't been paying much attention to the sideplot.
I thought it was one of those traps where hesitating makes the problem exponentially worse. Sorry about trying to off you with a surprise attack.
No. 103677 ID: 383927

Like I said, no worries! I really do value authenticity in the characters actions as compared to going out of your way to keep things un-realistically friendly. I've been playing pathfinder for a few years and I have more than my fair share of back up characters so I'm not overly concerned with their fates as long as I get to play them true to character. RP is always the most fun part for me
No. 103743 ID: b9aa79

>Stone's desperate lopsided sprint
Just to make clarify I was being literal when I said drop and roll- I figured this would be faster than walking considering his hampered mobility.
No. 103774 ID: 383927

Just for reference I know Lyrr isn't a demon; Stone has never seen a shark so the transformation he sees before him is quite terrifying and alien to him
No. 103797 ID: a107fd

Didn't say you're completely wrong, just a reminder that there's such a thing as spontaneous undead.

Also, Garaile's recently channeled a lot of raw sun-god energy to keep himself alive and mostly functional, and now it's giving him advice in the same telepathic tone of voice as, based on Gary's report, those platinum-melting abominations from the wagon's basement library. Might be more going on there.
No. 103800 ID: a107fd

> >God: "You are completely wrong, you absolute buffoon."

For what it's worth, I read this more like "Most people would agree with Garaille's assessment of how it works, but like certain H.P. Lovecraft protagonists, there's this horrible dawning realization at the corners of his mind half-heard through creepy voices (are they even telling the truth? What are these voices? Is it subconscious, or ghosts, or a divine revelation, or...) that the way it works is actually much worse than what most people think" kinda thing. Rather than god insulting his intellect, or the DM insulting yours or anything like that. A spooky bad feeling that Civilized society itself has some misconceptions with disturbing implications.

Incidentally, I'm very curious, where is that picture from/who's it of? It vaguely reminds me of this Robin Hood movie I saw half of once. Unless that's somebody from the Princess Bride, which I haven't seen in well over a decade and probably should rewatch sometime.
No. 103806 ID: ed93a9

Talk about luck- 12 below average rolls compared to 4 average or above rolls since the addition of stone to the campaign. Hopefully I can crawl out of this rut soon
No. 103830 ID: d41523

>Llyr is terrifying
It's good. That's what I was aiming for with him. I should hope even people who know what sharks are would find a grotesque shark-faced biped covered in gore to be a little scary.

>somebody from the Princess Bride
Correct, actually. It's Prince Humperdinck from the Princess Bride. Quote: "I always think everything could be a trap, which is why I'm still alive."
No. 103841 ID: 3abd97

It was unfortunate for Stone I couldn't see a good reason to call for diplomacy or parley and that Gariale's in-character tactical assessment made so much sense.

Although you're probably lucky you didn't roll sufficiently to look like an actual threat when we fell on you. We're leaving the dungeon for the day and Marijke still has all her second level spells. A dangerous-appearing necromancer would have gotten burred in a spider-swarm.

...actually that might still happen, depending on what she sees when she catches up to the Ogre's hut.
No. 103851 ID: b9aa79

don't worry, as previously stated I'm not overly concerned about Stone's survival- what happens happens. If in the future I end up rolling another character I think I wanna build something from scratch rather than basing it off a previous one. I missed playing old personalities but a character can only truly fit the a world it was designed in. There's quite a lot of fantastic races, and character creation is one of the most immensely satisfying part of an RPG for me.
No. 103856 ID: a107fd

I look forward to people getting seriously creative with the character-creation rules here.
No. 103857 ID: b9aa79

I was honestly dumb struck for a good hour after reading what happened to stone. The fact that, whilst handing possession of his body over to the somewhat annoying spirits in his life, Lyrr and the Ogress started going at it, and his concern for his life might have been unneeded, combined with the fact that a sack of flesh posses by a whirling mass of 50 or so ghosts is somehow involved, if only in an act of voyurism, in said carnal acts and is the least weird thing in the house at the moment. I'm honestly just blow away at what's going on right now. A++ and two thumbs up
No. 103858 ID: b9aa79

And I'd be careful about trying to charm the ogress if I were you Marjike- it's not unlikely she can tell what you're doing, and most people don't react kindly to mind control
No. 103859 ID: 3d2d5f

Slipping in other treatments under the cover of medical treatment is a time honored scam.

And yeah, it could blow up in my face, but I'm counting on my last roll's assment of her intelligence and magical skill, her being high on happy hormones and endorphins afterwards, that I'm pushing her in a direction she should already be inclined and the cover of actual treatment to win out.
No. 103861 ID: a107fd

Just to clarify, Stone was/will be out of action for two days, and Riv might reasonably still be incapacitated by the irresponsible self-surgery experiment during part of that time, so Santova can roll up a new character.
No. 103863 ID: 383927

I would like to preface this by saying I've already got 2 characters in the mix, even if they're both indisposed currently. This is a communal game and so I just wanna check in with everyone and ask if I'm doing too much and should dial it back a bit. Just because I CAN make another character, doesn't mean I should. That being said, while I wait for input from others I will start the process of making another PC, and then if it seems like too much they can just get throw on the back burner

Without a lot of in person knowledge about the different races and such I'm gonna go off reservation here and go for a demon-imp type creature. Lemme know if this needs any sort of revision.

Name: Alphious
Class: Hedge Witch
Specialization: Pyrokinetics
Higher Ambition: To find his sister, a demon by the name of Salt, and secure her return to his family in order to get back into their good books
Lower Ambition: Booze and gambling. Loves to party and is severely addicted to both hard liquor and anything that involves bets. Can't so no to a risk-reward type of challenge.
Phobia: Fish. Not afraid so much as repulsed. He thinks they are vile creatures in form and smell. This is psychological rather than physiological- if you were to convince him something he touched was a fish he'd vomit in horror, but if you could convince him the cod he was eating was a rare type of cave chicken, he'd probably enjoy it.
Mutation: Has strange reactions to alcohol; The drunker he gets, the hotter his body gets, to the point of being like seat belt buckle left in the car on a hot summer day if he gets black out drunk.
Super Natural Vulnerability: Functionally about as blind as a bat. Sees primarily through thermoception. Much like quick switches between light and dark blind a human, sudden changes in temperature confuse and interfere with his vision.
Innate Power: Doppelganger. After consuming enough genetic material from a creature, he can slowly morph to take their form. The more genetic material he imbibes, the more accurate and swift the transformation can take place. He cannot store forms or shift between them at will; rather he will physically become the creature if he consumes enough of it's DNA. The first change is physical appearance, which can create sibling-esque resemblance from about a fist full of material be it flesh, blood, hair, or other juices. 3 times that much and the resemblance is that of a twin, almost impossible to tell apart in appearance and voice, but easy to spot differences in mannerism. Eat maybe 50 pounds of material and the change would be some complete he'd start to loose his own innate abilities as his genetic material turns into his targets. He slowly reverts back to his demon imp form over the course of a week or two depending on how much he's ingested. Frequent meals can increase the length of his transformation indefinitely, but the less fresh the meal the more material it takes to compensate for the break-up of genetic material from decomposition.
Right hip: One handed cutlass.
Right Shoulder: Bandoleer of magic alcohol. Each pocket of the bandoleer carriers a shot of alcohol promised to have special, pronounced effects on his impish biology. He was shit faced when he bought it, and has since mixed all the vials up through various blunders and drunken nights. Every "potion" varies in alcoholic strength and effect; he has no idea what's what so it's a wild guessing game every time he takes a shot. A shot of light beer might have little to know effect, but a 5th of absence might have very wild effects.
left hip: Satchel of caltrops.
neck: Vial of his sisters blood.
left shoulder Leather Armor.
head: Bolt of fabric wrapped like a turban.
hidden uncomfortably: coin purse

Alphious comes from a family of very rich and powerful demons. From an early age he was skilled with magic, however, he was very much a willfully disobedient child, and refused schooling and studies. He spent all day smoking, boozing, and loosing bets with his parent's money. At the age of 14 he was involved with a particularly nasty turf scuffle involving a group of demons that played rival to his family. Many of his friends died and he started drinking much more heavily. This began a very quick downward spiral that ended with him being disowned after his bookie came knocking on his parents door looking for large sums of money. Broke, angry and drunk he stole what he could from his parents and went out in search of his sister, pride of the family, who had run away from home to go experience the unique and exquisite pleasures of the outside world. He hopes that by finding her and getting her back home to take on her role of heir, his parents will allow him access to the family money again and he continue to booze in relative comfort. He snuck into the city as a bird, and is now wearing the form of the unfortunate human woman who saw a swan monster attacking her pets. One night, half drunk in the black boar's common room he overheard the exclamations of some hooded figures talking about fighting and money and trade and is now trying to find said group of adventurers in hopes of making easy money as a pirate or bandit or whatever it is these creatures spend their time on.
No. 103864 ID: 383927

Also to clarify, the booze bandoleer is supposed to be a minor magical item like the dragon weed and such that hedge witches have access too. It's also not very magically for anyone but a demon/imp- it's modified to react with his alien physiology and has pronounced effects for him on the scale of a minor magical item, only with chance and unpredictability thrown in to lower the value hopefully making it an acceptable item. Also note, it was sold to him and promised to have special effects, which he believes to be true. Whether or not you decide this is the case is up to you.
No. 103866 ID: a107fd

>friendship curse
>built up / conditioned over time

The phrase I used was "training wheels for Stockholm syndrome." Training wheels hold a bike steady, making practice easier and safer, but they don't increase the rider's skill directly, and they don't do anything at all after they're removed. While someone's under the spell, they regard the caster as a trusted friend, even if they'd otherwise have every reason to be mortal enemies. When the spell wears off, the subject can reassess their feelings, and the spell does nothing to distort their memories of anything other than the spell itself. If they were treated well during the spell's duration, they might continue treating the caster as a trusted friend, or recall past conflicts and wonder what changed; if abused and thoroughly subjugated, they might continue cooperating out of habit but start to nurture seeds of resentment, or lash out immediately, depending on personal temperament and any number of other factors.

The spell has no cumulative "conditioning" effect. It's just that mundane diplomacy has an easier time making a good impression on someone when they're giving the benefit of the doubt, and it's easier to prevent a fight (when you're already on speaking terms, or were until very recently) than stop one already in progress.

The spell does not, in itself, modify the subject's attitude toward anyone other than the caster, although other low-circle effects (or mundane social tactics) could be developed to do so. If the caster is a known member of some group the subject broadly despises, phrases like "present company excepted" or "one of the good ones" are likely to come up.
No. 103867 ID: a107fd

>supernatural vulnerability
You got these two backward. IR-only vision, with some associated physiological oddity around the eyes, is a mutation. For the vulnerability, I'm inclined to make it more extreme: feverish, almost-painful heat with a little bit of a buzz, spontaneous ignition of most cloth and dry wood at full drunkenness, while an actual blackout would be enough to melt lead and maybe even copper, or soften iron. Won't ever be burned by any heat less intense than he's currently producing, but fires with sufficient fuel can easily become hotter than their ignition source, and he's got no particular resistance to smoke inhalation, or being trapped in a collapsing building.

>Right hip: One handed cutlass.
>neck: Vial of his sisters blood.
Not on the list.
>Right Shoulder: Bandoleer of magic alcohol.
Hedge witches get to start with minor magic items, rather than ineffectual trinkets laden with superstition, because they understand magic well enough to sort treasure from dross, so "lol random" doesn't get you a discount. Take fortified wine, or else some known item with repeatable effects.
>innate power
Perfect shape-shifting into anything you manage to eat enough of is too broad, and almost certainly fails the "trivial escape" test since you could use it to turn into a rock worm.

How about the ability to gamble with intangibles? Particularly reputations. If you manage to trick someone into "winning" your reputation as a layabout and pyromaniac, that gives you a second chance at a lot of first impressions, and probably ruins their life, while acquiring someone's reputation as, say, the priest of a particular temple, would let you take over that role with alarming ease, at least until they check the official records.
No. 103868 ID: 3abd97

Yeah, sorry. You made that clear before but I kind of spaced it. (And forgot what I actually had on my spell list, and misremembered how to use what was there). Not very well on the ball today.

Thanks for the patience in straightening that out and not just slapping me with the consequences of doing things that don't work.
No. 103869 ID: a107fd

Well, in-game you'd have hours to think it over.
No. 103871 ID: 804c9c

Whoops sorry! I misunderstood and thought those were suggestions of equipment that could be taken, not the be all-end all list of available starting gear. In that case I'll grab fortified wine instead of boozolier, sister blood as a magic witch item, and rope instead of a sword. If I can't do blood I'll re-arrange and get wine, oil where the sword would go, and manacles. Key+chains dangling from my neck, manacles on the wrists separately, unlocked. In terms of mutation vs weakness I thought I might be doing it wrong but I wasn't sure which was the right order, I appreciate the clarity. Power sounds great though! Didn't realize we couldn't have escape be trivial once we were out of the labyrinth, so apologies there I will certainly keep that in mind!
No. 103872 ID: 804c9c

A question though- if I have the reputation of something I'm clearly not- say for instance an orcish woman who is known for her immense stature and dazzling battle armor, how will people react? I'm assuming I have to inform them like "have you heard of Un'thrak the Mountain? youre lookin at 'er." How far will that reputation go? How well do I steal the life of said person on a superficial level? Is there any sort of recognition from this persons friends? Do others who don't know their reputation but know my disreputable one suddenly think my armor looks really cool and my stance is one worth painting a thousand portraits of? How far does this extend
No. 103874 ID: a107fd

>I'm assuming I have to inform them
Nope. You're as widely and rapidly recognized as they would've been, no matter how little sense that makes. "Wow, you must be Un'thrak the Mountain! That's funny, I'd heard you were twelve feet tall, and female. Is your armor in the shop for repairs after some glorious battle?" Of course, reputation will erode if mishandled and neglected to such an extent, and the original might be able to steal it back, like when Charlie Chaplin won third place in a Charlie Chaplin lookalike contest.
No. 103876 ID: 383927

Yeah, I figured about the erosion and degradation was natural- after all it is MY reputation. Even if it used be be someone elses, I'm in charge of it now and everything I do affects it.
In terms of being recognized, how does that affect people who know the individual personally? Do they think I'm their trusted friend? Would they assume their friend of 4 years is a lecherous imp with an addictive personality? Because if this is the case I may actually want to change my higher ambition
No. 103879 ID: a107fd

>how does that affect people who know the individual personally? Do they think I'm their trusted friend?
For them, you'd need an actual disguise, and social skills to back it up, though that's easier than it might otherwise be... unless you gambled for the specific relationship instead of broad reputation. This power has a lot of potential, but there's always the catch that, first, you've got to find somebody who has what you want; second, you've got to persuade them to agree to risk whatever it is on some sort of wager, either with a handshake or in writing (they might think it's a joke, or sign without reading all the fine print, or be under duress, but if they're mind-controlled or otherwise have no idea what they're getting into, no sale); and finally, you need to actually win. Cheating is only acceptable if it somehow falls within the letter of the agreement, and also doesn't completely remove the element of chance.

Partly basing this power on Arcane Fate and Resplendent Destinies from Exalted 2nd ed, specifically the Sidereals, if you're familiar. Also some inspiration from Unknown Armies.
No. 103881 ID: 383927

Unfortunately I'm not that familiar with a lot of older additions and rules. Still though I'm more than happy- The way it allows me to almost become other people without actually doing so, combined with his inability to reign himself in when it comes to betting makes it very exciting. As far as what he actually looks like, is that up to me? Or do you have a set idea for demons and imps.

Side note, I'm honestly terrified of his self igniting drunkenness. He is almost entirely self absorbed and almost always inebriated; his alcoholism could be described as "rampant" and will likely cause very many things to happen involving deadly blazes and drunken mishaps. It's going to be quite the character to manage considering I have little experience in the world of drunkenness.
No. 103884 ID: a107fd

Every character's appearance should, apart from specified mutations, be able to pass for human or some other standard civilized fantasy race. A power with disguise functions gives you some slack on that, but each exotic cosmetic feature is another potential complication when you're relying on mundane makeup and costumes.

How would you feel about that purse consisting of four rubies of exceptional size and quality, each worth a few hundred gold but not readily divisible, and having no smaller denomination currency to start? Only real catch is, homeland has to be a high plateau far away across the desert, and you'd be starting as deep in the dungeon as the first-gen PCs.
No. 103888 ID: a107fd

Going by post count and plot convolutions, we should probably wrap up thread 3 soon after Rixxil Kas's arrow-extraction surgery/ritual. Question is, where should we be starting off for thread 4?
No. 103890 ID: a107fd

For starting location, pick a positive integer from 2 to 12 or 14 to 50, inclusive. Everyone from the first thread effectively picked 29, and Stone's start was either 10 or 7 depending on interpretation. Levels 51 and 13 are beyond the reach of almost all adventurers, and unplanned arrival in either would most likely result in an abrupt and boring death.
No. 103894 ID: b9aa79

Starting location is 40 according to the dice machine. Drawing might come forth when I'm feeling better. For now, Alphious is small humanoid roughly 4'6'', purple. Large bat like ears, eyes that look like infected wounds, and a large triangle branded into his face, point up. His unreasonably large hands and feet/legs that would be reminiscent of a cat if not so spiny and chitinous host rounded claws. His jaw looks more like discolored bone rather than flesh due to the fact that he has no lips, only teeth, and the blunt black horns that curl away from the back of the head is easily mistaken for hair from a distance. A hooded cloak and a bribe is usually enough to convince others to ignore his appearance, but deep in this dungeon he has found little need to disguise himself, and a very strong need for a stiffer drink than the wine on his hip
No. 103908 ID: a107fd

>> unable to eat something only marginally larger than himself.

To be fair... he is pretty big. And if he ate something bigger than he was... where would it go? Would his body double in mass, over half of that mass now being his digestive organs? Would he bloat up like a snake? Or is he somehow digesting super fast? If the latter is the case then he'd still probably be taking in too many nutrients and get other health problems I'd think. I mean, it's kind of cartoonish, like Kirby or something.

I think his reputation would still be quite secure if he ate a very large portion of an ogre and then left a little bit of remains. Like buffalo you can't use all of in the Oregon Trail. That way it also leaves gore as evidence, with huge nasty shark bites taken out of it, which is probably more intimidating than a mysteriously vanished corpse. If you see bits of a dead horse that's missing most of it's middle and there's big shark bites taken out of it, on land, that's a heck of a gruesome calling card by itself. And the way I understand it Llyr's going to still be ready for more fighting afterwards, instead of having to sit down and nurse his tummy for a while the way an overeating human probably would, thanks to his digestion powers. Also it could be a normally-inedible horse that he ate anyway with those powers. "Who or what could do this to the King's biggest poison urchin steed?!" "Cor blimey, half of it's gone!!" etc.

Not sure where to start thread 4, Letkra has very little idea of where to go IC, and I have less ideas than I'd like OOC right now. (Though I suspect a second attempt on the dungeon is in order, after various medical care and rest.) Anyone else have something in mind?
No. 103911 ID: 07c53c

I'd like to see where we stand after the surgry before opting for a next step. I might vote for the monks depending on how it turns out- if we're skipping forward in time then jumping some travel time makes sense to me
No. 103912 ID: d41523

>what to do now
We should rest and heal up and take another shot at the dungeon, because we failed to accumulate any real wealth and our supplies are still dwindling quickly. I intended Garaile to leave alone so that the party could go back in and continue, but instead everyone left together. As it is, the dungeon exploration trip was an utter failure, cut short with not-insignificant losses and no profit, and we absolutely need more income. We can't afford to just muck about accomplishing nothing.
No. 103913 ID: 383927

I find this funnier than perhaps I should. I'm imagining Lyrr getting huffy and upset as everything tries to convince him he can't eat 900 pounds of ogre as at once, and Lyrr is ignoring them like a petulant child with a point to prove, desperately trying to consume a ridiculous amount of ogre flesh

In terms of having no income, Graile is badly wounded but I thought the snake skin was significantly valuable. Last I checked the party had enough gold to buy food for months, has free beds for everyone, and two critically injured characters. OOC I don't think wealth accumulation has to be prioritized in this situation, especially when another dive into the dungeon might not go so favorably. Again though, a lot of this is dependant on the surgery and the end of thread 3. I think abstaining until we have a good idea of our situation is prudent
No. 103917 ID: 3abd97

>rolled a perfect crit on a post where I'm really not doing much
Pffffffffff. I am simultaneously giddy and letdown.
No. 103920 ID: d41523

At least you can be secure in the knowledge that those'll be some damn fine caltrop infused wax apples.

>a petulant child with a point to prove
In D&D, they just call them barbarians.

>under ten pounds of silver per month
Is that counting the ogre who can consume more food than the rest of the group put together? ( >>/questarch/730349 ) I also can't imagine Llyr's appetite is any less than that, although Llyr will probably be set for food for the next three or four weeks, the weakling.

>selling the snake hide
See, in my mind, I had that recorded as another expense, since it was implied earlier that Garaile was going to have armor made of it. ( >>/quest/747405 ) I don't fault the group for selling it though, since our only other loot was a pair of boots, a couple old scimitars, and a mirror. Garaile doesn't have any special claim to it since it was actually Llyr who killed it, and Llyr doesn't really care about armor OR material wealth, since he's only in it for love, excitement, and good meals.
No. 103922 ID: 3abd97

>making armor out of the snakeskin instead of selling it
We should probably have some kind of standard practice regarding useful loot, since there's always going to be the competing interests of liquidating and splitting the haul versus keeping it and only one person getting to use it.

Reasonably, if a member of the crew wants to keep something expensive, they offset that by giving up a share of the other loot. Probably with a discount if they were personally involved in procuring it (so Garaile or Llyr could buy the snakeskin from the common pot for personal use more cheaply than anyone else could).

The tricky bit here is the snake skin is by far the most valuable part of the haul (even if we're still making payroll and covering expenses with the rest). It's likely worth more than Garaile's share, even with a combat bonus.

Hmm. Distribution is the quartermasters domain. Garaile would have to cut a deal with Nico, I guess. Either pay off the difference into the common fund, or convince the quartermaster that investing the a senior officer's / front line divine fighter's survival is a good investment for the charter.

It is a viable tradeoff. It's less direct loot now in exchange for (hopefully) increased earning power later.
No. 103923 ID: a107fd

>Is that counting the ogre who can consume more food than the rest of the group put together?

Yes, with some optimistic assumptions about your team's ability to continue killing bears and giant snakes and the like, and also continue trading such meat for about twenty times it's weight in cheap starchy stuff without any cash technically being involved.

Alternatively, just reduce Gunderbag's rations. He's not exactly on the brink of starvation. If anything, he seems to be getting fatter.
No. 103924 ID: a107fd

One solution for this issue is to say that magic items belong to the company as a whole, and are only loaned out to individual delvers as needed. For practical purposes, Garaile (or whoever) gets the equipment needed to do the job, without paying for it out of pocket, but has to give it back afterward.
No. 103925 ID: 383927

>It is a viable tradeoff. It's less direct loot now in exchange for (hopefully) increased earning power later
Riv tried that line once before, so i just hope that our fair paladin is a better bargainer than she. To be fair, the snake skin is worth approximately 250,000 if we go middle ground, and if Marjike, hedge witch specializing in trade and bartering can work her magic, then we could be getting upwards of 400,000. Not sure if our reputable author put the conversion rate in terms of gold coins or USD but I'd be willing to bet you could buy some nice armor with your share of the profit

Also, nice crit! Let me know when Riv's awake again if you please
No. 103926 ID: 3abd97

That's probably the most elegant solution, yeah. Then you only need to pay it off if you want to take it with you when you leave the company. (And in the event of death, said expensive magic item can be reassigned or liquidated).

(Applies to looted magic items only, of course. Anything people buy out of their own pocket / inherit from family / have given to them by doting lovers / etc is theirs).

Of course if we're keeping it, we're going to find a craftsperson to pay to turn it into armor. Unless this is within the leather-working kobold's expertise?
No. 103927 ID: 3abd97

Well, Garaile has the advantage that whoever we'd be selling the skin to would probably be making armor out of it, so it's not like it loses too much value. Whereas the value of the lockbox as an art object is lost as soon as it's disassembled, and a robo-familiar isn't fungible.

We should still probably buy you some non-pricey-art-object parts as soon as we get the chance, though.
No. 103929 ID: d41523

Good point. Let's just sell the snake skin and Garaile can buy some decent mundane armor for a hell of a lot cheaper. Garaile is not valuable enough in combat to be worth squandering 400k on armor for. Plus, with the surplus cash, the entire group can get outfitted instead of just one person. That'll be Garaile's IC stance too, and I know Marijke won't turn down the lion's share of that extra money in her pocket.

>in the event of death, said expensive magic item can be reassigned or liquidated
This is less feasible when the expensive magic item in question is the armor actually preventing death. There's a pretty good chance anything that kills the wearer through the armor is also going to void the warranty on that armor, so to speak.
No. 103931 ID: 383927

Don't worry I'm not that fussed parts OOC, and IC Riv has a... complicated stance on the matter.
Although I will say an intelligent mechanical familiar is both valuable as a magic item and an art piece. The lockbox while functionally useless is undoubtedly beautiful, although I thought it was implied the value came from the parts not necessarily their arrangement. I could be wrong on that though. With the surgery solved so quickly and easily thanks to a timely crit, I, OOC, recommend we liquidate our assets, gear up, and go cash in a favor. Marjike's goal is wealth as far as I remember, so that will accumulate over time with more successful missions, but with the help of the coven I'm sure Marjike could think of something valuable worth putting that power towards. Riv would personally suggest that a functional air ship and more neogi who seem to be the perfect candidates for improving Rixxil Kas's morale might be just the boost to wealth that puts Marjike on the map and get's her established as a real force around here. The best way to make money is to do business, and the best way to do business is to make a name for yourself. Reputation is the difference between being a starving, one eared asylum patient and a world renowned artist. The value of a name is the kind of wealth that's a step above the gold and magic items. something Alphious will soon be able to make use of in the door guard let's him into wherever he's trying to get into
No. 103932 ID: 3abd97

Fair enough on both points. (Although on the second: hey, have a little optimism! You might die in a way that leaves armor intact! Poison, starvation, drowning, beheading....).

Valuable but not fungible. Magic armor can be pawned; mages don't readily separate from familiars.

As for the rest, yeah, our next immediate goal is deciding on what to do. We either sit and wait for someone to come and buy the snake skin, or we set off for work and/or a marketplace where we can pawn what loot we have left and buy things we can't find here.
No. 103934 ID: a107fd

>> Riv tried that line once before, so i just hope that our fair paladin is a better bargainer than she.
Strictly speaking, Garaile has more seniority, seems to be more openly concerned with the survival of others (aside from what happened with Nick, but he's probably guilty about that, and... does anyone even know about that besides Marijke, who's partly complicit? When you think about it it's like there's a secret murder/negligent homicide mystery with those two as the culprits, but no one knows about it, like that one Alfred Hitchcock movie with the dead guy under the table that none of the guests knew about). Also, aside from grisly trophies, he probably comes across as a little more level-headed than Riv was, with the cape furling and the muttering and the ranting and the divisive conspiratorial tone and the paranoia. Lastly, Garaile would (though he's not taking this route I guess) only be bargaining for keeping more of the loot than normal, whereas Riv was mostly trying to promote a dangerous adventure (going back to fight for the airship).

So basically, I could see Garaile having more positive modifiers on the negotiation than Riv did ("say auld chum, cinnae have a wee bit more o the stuff I collected on account o' mae wound defeating this very monster I want the bits of" isn't as hard a sell as "You're being a fool! All we need to do is go back and kill the guys we just escaped from. YOU CAN'T CUT FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS! *segments of road around the city start to randomly explode into rubble*").

By the way, Riv ought to be recovering soon too, right? : )
No. 103936 ID: d41523

>Poison, starvation, drowning
What do I look like, Sgt. Nick?

Just to set the record straight, here was the situation with Sgt. Nick: He was on fire. There were two options to extinguish him. 1. We throw the only potable water available to us, and as far as we knew at the time, possibly the only potable water in the entire dungeon, all over him, using it up completely, and forcing us to gamble on finding some other source of water in that godforsaken hellhole within the next three days or suffer TPK. OR 2. We kick him into the large pond of dirty water conveniently nearby from which we can't drink. I chose the latter. Following that, we were placed in a predicament of either attempting to rescue him in the scant few minutes we had before we were overrun with dire rats which we knew with 100% certainty were incoming, or leaving him there temporarily to flee and returning to rescue him later. Given a single one of such rats posed a significant threat to the party at the time, a whole horde would also have been a near-guaranteed TPK. Again, we opted for the latter, fully intending to come back for him. Shortly thereafter, we were taken prisoner by goblins, preventing us from returning. After freeing ourselves from the goblins, we were given another choice: escape the hellhole (the sole goal of the session), or go back to rescue Sgt. Nick and give up the opportunity forever, which would again force us to gamble on supplies lasting us to miraculously finding another escape passage, against all odds. We chose the former option, reluctantly leaving Sgt. Nick behind. In other words, we made three choices, each one between the welfare of Sgt. Nick and the lives of the rest of the party, and each time we chose the safety of the majority over the safety of the one. Given the information we had available to us at the time, I don't think any of those decisions were unreasonable, nor murderous. Furthermore, OOC, Sgt. Nick was already an NPC character without much to offer the party, since the player disappeared shortly after being set alight, and JamesLeng made it clear that this was going to be a gritty campaign where anyone, and indeed everyone, could potentially die. Therefore, I think it's unjustified to call us murderers and hang the outcome of that series of events over us for the rest of the game.

If you want to blame someone, blame JamesLeng who engineered the circumstances such that helping Sgt. Nick at any one of those junctions seemed like a supremely bad idea, and then afterward happily mocked me for it and decided the very next room would have as much potable water as we could ever want, just to add insult to injury. (See: >>99296 ) Quote: "remember that time Garaile beat Nick upside the head with the physical embodiment of his worst fear and left him for dead, instead of helping him stop being on fire the safe, easy way? And there was a big pool of potable water in the very next room?" As if somehow I was expected to know ahead of time how the DM decided to lay out the dungeon, if indeed the dungeon wasn't being laid out as we traversed it, which seemed very likely, given the vague, semi-linear nature of the paths made available to us. Compare it to the raid of the Mouth of Doom, which was certainly mapped out ahead of time, and you can see a very concrete difference in description.

I don't think anything Marijke or I chose to do at that time was unreasonable nor irrational, and I'll stand by that declaration. Given our apparent options, it would have been much more irrational to try to rescue Sgt. Nick. So maybe, cut us a little slack?
No. 103938 ID: 383927

Yeah that's basically what I was saying, Riv asked for valuable loot after just joining the party and offering little to nothing in return other than an improvement to her skilled labor, whereas Garaile is a senior member who's been through think and thin and although he gets grumpy easily he's not quite as abrasive as Riv to any degree

As far as this goes I do sincerely believe it was being brought up in playful jest not accusation, at least this time around. It seems that perhaps this is a bit of a spot of contention for you though where bad circumstances had a bad outcome. I think it's safe to say that for now it's sufficiently in the past to joke about more readily, wouldn't you agree?
No. 103939 ID: a107fd

I can, at least, show that I'd laid out the next room in advance. Yeven Surgis got there first, on another board:
Even discounting the possibility of heading toward the dire rats' nest, or down the chute, there were three other hallways you could have taken. If you'd followed the same route as the goblins escorted you along, but ahead of them, you could've refilled canteens at the little pond with the cave fish where Than and Dmitri
"the White Snake" Nicola started out. Along other paths, you might have come across one of the underground rivers.

The bloodmist labyrinth alone would cover more than 156 acres (that's six point eight million square feet, just under a quarter of a square mile) if you laid out all six sub-levels side by side at 1:1 scale, and it includes every room, every hallway, every individual door and trap you encountered, or reasonably could have encountered, in Thread 1. I am NOT just making up the dungeon map as I go along.
No. 103940 ID: 383927

Officially putting in my vote now as to the start of thread four; I think we should wait in town until the specialist can get here, and I think we should start thread 4 at the arrival of said specialist. Or we can fast forward past the sale all together, have a brief moment in the end of thread 3 to say how we'd spend our down time and money, and then pick up after we're done with all the waiting around
No. 103942 ID: a107fd

Whoa, no accusations were intended, nor did I think this would be as contentious as all that. (I mentioned the thing with Nick in the middle of a statement about Garaile being more sane and credible...)

I've read the part in question (all of thread 1 in fact, it was quite entertaining), and when I said "negligent homicide" I meant in the legal sense when someone accidentally kills someone else. Which is what happened; Marijke accidentally lit Sergeant Nick on fire, and Garaile knocked him into a pit of water he was trying to get away from in a way that wound up killing him accidentally, but was meant to douse the flames. It wasn't a conspiracy, but mistakes were made, someone got killed, and IC I'm not sure whether it's a thing they've been telling new recruits about, hence my joke about it being like a mystery plot.

I'd like to calm this whole thing down somehow so please consider the following statements:

- Garaile is an interesting, complicated character with good intentions and understandably worries about the incredibly dangerous stuff they're doing.

- I enjoy your contributions to the game, they are fun and interesting. (Again, the main intent of my previous post was to be encouraging about "actually, I think Garaile has a pretty good position for negotiating about that".)

- JamesLeng, in every game I've ever run, greatly favors true simulationism over narrativism. He doesn't lay out stories in advance, he digs through books of maps and tables of numbers and rolls up stuff and makes charts and then thinks, "what would someone literally see in this situation" and describes that. He's saying stuff along the lines of "you see three branching paths, stone hallways about 10 feet by 10 feet, and there's a door at the end of one of them" because that's what he either rolled up, or got off a preexisting map, or what have you.

He will think up more of a story to things once they're established, but that story doesn't involve plans for what happens later or where things are going- it's just like "well, this stuff that I rolled up suggests this NPC might have so and so kind of history and motivations" and then what he makes up as he goes is what their in-character response would logically be to whatever the player characters decided to do.

So basically, the map, the layout of the world, is either prebuilt or generated with literal dice rolls (usually any such rolling is done in advance), and the player characters can pick anywhere they want to go and anything they want to do, and what they find comes from those logically-derived notes, not from GM fiat. In fact, I've run into situations in the past where I went past the scope of his notes and he didn't know what to do and we had to stop and figure something else out completely OOC. He hates the whole idea of railroading and "gotcha" traps, and doesn't do it, ever. He's not a sadist.

The quote from him about Sergeant Nick- that probably could've been phrased better, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant as mockery, but rather, as a specific example for "there's such a thing as being overly paranoid". Of course Garaile didn't know what was in the next room- how could he? That wasn't the point. The point was, Garaile saw not saving his water as just as deadly a choice as shoving Nick into that corpse-infected pool he was trying to get away from- which could've been right, but it's gambling that an uncertain longer term risk outweighs a more easily confirmed short term risk, which was the point I think he was getting at.

I'd also like to point out that Sergeant Nick wasn't confirmed to actually even be dead. Very never-found-the-body situation. (and I'm certain, out of hand, that if the player showed back up and suddenly wanted to play Sergeant Nick again, JamesLeng would say yes to that.)

In short: I didn't mean to upset anyone and I very much hope we can all calm down and resume playing the game together, as I enjoy your (Tunic's) participation and was ultimately trying to be encouraging, even if I botched my real-life diplomacy roll in the process.
No. 103943 ID: a107fd

> the only potable water available to us, and as far as we knew at the time, possibly the only potable water in the entire dungeon, all over him, using it up completely

>Everybody starts with travel clothes including boots, gloves, a hooded cloak, knife, flint for sparking, and [b]food and water for a day[b]. Pick up to seven additional pieces of equipment,

Garaile chose a big jug of water as one of those additional items, but every one of the PCs also had a canteen. I can accept that this is a sensitive subject for you, and I wouldn't say I intended the linked quote as mockery but I can see how it would be read that way. What I can't accept is exaggeration to the point of explicit falsehood. It might have used up the majority of your water, but not all.

I have been acting in good faith. What the hell do I have to do to prove that to you?
No. 103947 ID: d41523

I missed the canteen then, but one day's worth of water is still a near-neglible amount when you die of dehydration in at best three days.

You don't have to prove anything to me. I'm fine with playing the way we've been playing. I just don't want every one of my decisions that ever turned out poorly to be held against me forever. So far, the three most memorable things about Garaile are 1. causing the death of Sgt. Nick (as previously mentioned), 2. wearing a necklace of ears (which almost got the character turned into an npc at the time because of the paladin fiasco), and 3. liking kobolds too much (which is the explanation I came up with to explain why Garaile suddenly felt the need to specifically watch over and protect them despite previously being completely apathetic about their presence and treating them like common monsters. Convincing them was an action I didn't want to take at the time, but over which I felt I was being threatened with losing all my character's powers if I didn't. Again, the paladin fiasco. See >>99663 )

And the only thing anyone seems to "remember" about Llyr is that he's a teamkiller who constantly harms his allies.

I'm fine with playing the campaign the way you're running it right now and I accept your statement that you're running it in good faith, but I'd also like to be able to play my characters the way I envisioned them, rather than having to mold them to fit how you want me to play.
No. 103952 ID: d41523

As an addendum, I'm fine with the way my characters turned out and I'll keep playing them the way they are now, if you're not kicking me out of the campaign for everything I've just said. I'm not at all asking for any DM favors or retcons. I'm just laying out the present situation as far as I've understood it up to this point and doing my best to try to explain the logic behind the decisions I've made so far, as well as sharing my personal viewpoint on what the results have been.
No. 103953 ID: a107fd

>You don't have to prove anything to me.
If you're going to publicly blame me for stuff that didn't even happen, I think I kinda do! I have to defend my reputation, by proving that I didn't do what you're saying I did. You said "just to set the record straight" and then rattled off a lot of stuff that's completely false!

Even from the perspective of preserving supplies for a long-term stay in the dungeon, shoving Nick into the pool had the entirely predictable side effect of spoiling the majority of the group's food supplies. You weren't out of water. You weren't even low on water. Even if you had been low on water, and had any particular reason to believe water would be scarce in a fog-shrouded dungeon where 100% of the rooms so far (one out of a sample of one) featured running water, there were options for extinguishing the fire without using up any potable water OR shoving him into the pool. You could have pushed him into the channel (2' wide and deep, ergo easier to escape) that he'd hopped across on the way over to you, or just made him roll around on the ground, or smothered the fire with your cloak, or... you had options, damn it. Putting him in that waking nightmare wasn't as necessary as you're making it out to be, and part of the paladin thing is acknowledging that you could, in fact, be wrong. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html Even if you're not going for the paladin thing at all, you had options that involved conserving supplies more effectively, and being less of a dick in-character. TL;DR is no excuse, when equipment and room description was all there on the same page. I need to prove to you that the things which actually did happen are not at all the only things that could have happened. If you want to be a dick to NPCs, that's alright, but if so, I want you to admit that's what you're choosing to do.

>I'd also like to be able to play my characters the way I envisioned them, rather than having to mold them to fit how you want me to play.
Go ahead and do that, how about, instead of dancing around traps that only exist in your own imagination. I said the ear-necklace thing IS acceptable behavior for a paladin in this game, and you somehow interpreted that as a threat? I threw out the paladin code of conduct entirely, and paladin-related precedents in general, in an effort to amicably resolve the 'fiasco,' and you're still holding it against me? Even if I hadn't, and did consider it unacceptable behavior, that'd just mean losing class abilities, not all agency as a player! Where the fuck did you get that idea? The only thing, literally the ONLY THING, that would turn somebody's PC into an NPC is if they stopped posting. Even then, they can seamlessly pick up the character again if and when they come back. I'm still holding out hope that CalimariGod will come back and play as Nico Nashville some more.
No. 103956 ID: d41523

>wasn't as necessary as you're making it out to be
It's easy to see that after the fact because hindsight is 20/20, but in the actual moment, nothing is ever that clear-cut. When a person is running at me on fire, determined to lay hands on something strapped to my waist, and you've made it clear the scene will progress with or without my input, (When Sgt. Nick failed to roll to avoid the fire, you rolled for him.) my first thought isn't to tell them to stop, drop, and roll. In my mind, my options were "use the potable water" or "use the non-potable water", and at the time, I was under the impression the genre of the campaign was "gritty survival horror". I obviously wouldn't have done what I did if I had realized the actual options were "use the potable water, which you can easily refill whenever" or "kill the npc and ruin most of the food".

>grudge about paladin-hood
Not at all. I'm only bringing it up because I'm bringing up the reasoning for why I did what I did at those times, and at those times, fear of the paladin code was driving literally every decision I was making.

>losing class abilities is not equal to becoming an npc
A paladin minus all their class abilities is the same as a fighter with no feats or equipment bonuses. Why would I want to play a severely gimped character when everyone around me is operating at full effectiveness? I would just make a new character and the old character would become an npc. That's where it came from.
No. 103958 ID: a107fd

>goodbye paladin, hello fighter-without-bonus-feats

If redemption is off the table, and being slightly underpowered would be an intolerable burden (in this game where most conflicts so far have been dominated by equipment, clever use of non-class-based special powers or mutations, and most of all blind luck), friendly contact with an evil outsider (possibly that one named Marty) would've been enough to get started on cultivating a different set of powers.
No. 103960 ID: d41523

>only slightly underpowered to lose all your supernatural powers
I think Marijke wouldn't be happy if she couldn't cast spells, nor would Letkra be happy to lose her shield. Why should I be happy with losing healing powers and paladin immunities?

>cultivating a different set of powers
Great, but that wasn't presented as an option back when I was concerned about it. On the Pathfinder system, a fallen Paladin is just boned without a level 10+ party, and there was no indication it'd work differently here. Becoming a blackguard (or similar evil) is not generally considered a great thing for party play, even if I had known it was going to be available.
No. 103964 ID: 3abd97

Wait geeze why are we back on Nick again. I thought we'd already labelled that as "maybe not the best tactical decision, no one holds it against you, moving on."

>So far, the three most memorable things about Garaile are 1. causing the death of Sgt. Nick, 2. wearing a necklace of ears, and 3. liking kobolds too much
I don't think any of the characters in-game really care about Nick anymore. The only other people still in the party who witnessed it were Marijke and Nico. Marijke really doesn't have reason to bring up the person she set on fire and Nico was always too wrapped up in his own weird interests to seem bothered by it.

The trophy necklace was fun to roleplay distaste for when it happened, but again, no one is bothered by it. We're traveling with an ogre, a horrible telepathic bug monster, and a shark-cannibal. Garaile's fallen way behind on the gross-out meter.

And the kobolds... it's cute and funny, honestly. I know their interactions arose from the clumsily and awkward and (rightfully) aborted paladin thing, but I like what it is now. Maybe it's not what you originally intended, but I enjoy our fighter having a kobold retinue.

For what it's worth, Marijke sees Garaile as a rock. Sometimes maybe blunt and too quick to action at times, but someone she can rely on implicitly when things go down.

>And the only thing anyone seems to "remember" about Llyr is that he's a teamkiller who constantly harms his allies.
If that were the predominant attitude Marijke probably wouldn't have been willing to hang out alone with him tending to an Ogre for more than a day. He had a poor first impression, that's all.

I mean, she does pretty much regard him as muscle (albeit muscle with perhaps unexpected emotional depths after that last encounter and unexpected request for aid. Confusing and disturbing emotional depths she'd rather not think too deeply about after the way it ended).

>I think Marijke wouldn't be happy if she couldn't cast spells
The character would probably be pretty depressed about that, although she could probably comfort herself with money. (Although that would be tempered by the certainty that a lack of magic would making obtaining more money, and holding onto what she has, a lot harder).

As for myself, the player? My reaction would sort of depend on how much agency I had in it. If I was magically crippled out of the blue by some random trap, yeah that would be pretty bullshit. If it was at least partially the result of my own decisions (ignoring warnings / chances to figure something out, taking significant risks for some reason, etc) then it would hurt a lot less.

As for how I would handle it... a cure or fix would probably become an important character motivation. There might be some wiggle room in adjusting her approach, since she's halfway between a mage and a priest (so something designed specifically to disrupt a divine connection or the ability to shape arcane forces might not be circumventable). If my connection to Rixxil remained intact, I might have her pull a long con on everyone but those she trusted most- not letting on that she couldn't personally cast spells anymore, and using his abilities as a proxy.

It's not the direction I would choose to take my character but there would still be options.
No. 103970 ID: a107fd

Letkra is a weird character for several reasons. The main power I'd actually be worried about losing is the ability to regrow from stuff- not as much the shield. The shield has a ton of utility so she's been using it more than anything else, but really, part of the original concept of the character was that she would get mangled and generally exposed to various manner of "bad end" scenarios, but then be able to regrow and participate again afterwards, a little mentally worse for the wear. But that hasn't happened so far.

(Honestly, I would've had her jumping in front being more defensive during the snake battle, but I didn't post much at the time due to IRL stuff.)

That said I think those are excellent points about how randomly losing your power in an unforseen random trap would be kind of awful, but losing it knowingly would be something else. In any case I don't think Garaile came anywhere near losing his powers, and that it was mostly a misunderstanding/incorrect assumption that he might.

Garaile being Marijke's "rock" is also pretty consistent with what I was originally trying to say, that he's built up a sense of dependability within the party and could thus probably get away with more than Riv did negotiation-wise.

Also... I have a lot of trouble thinking of what to do at any given time. My mind draws a blank way too often for my liking, and that's for any game I play, really. So that being said:

I don't know if this was spelled out well but I'm pretty sure part of the concept of the game is, any ideas you come up with yourself for your character's course of action are valid, as long as they are possible to take. They'll be more or less likely to work based on, logically, whether or not they'd be likely to work in-setting by the established facts of the situation and, where applicable, the numerical mechanics. So, while I don't want to speak for JamesLeng too much here, I'm pretty sure coming up with your own options is always a welcome thing.
No. 103985 ID: a107fd

>My reaction would sort of depend on how much agency I had in it. If I was magically crippled out of the blue by some random trap, yeah that would be pretty bullshit. If it was at least partially the result of my own decisions (ignoring warnings / chances to figure something out, taking significant risks for some reason, etc) then it would hurt a lot less.

Whereas if you met the God of Guildsmen in person, then derived and executed a solid plan to violently usurp his entire portfolio, any concomitant loss of patronage likely wouldn't hurt at all. Maybe just a satisfying ache, like the mental equivalent of a good day at the gym.

>coming up with your own options is always a welcome thing.

Very much so, as I hope my previous statement illustrates. When any well-documented game has finite possible states, "winning" becomes a matter of tedious computation; degrading the documentation mainly adds a layer of tedious guesswork. I don't particularly enjoy surprises for their own sake, whether "playful" pranks or ill-informed and/or unsolicited acts of "generosity," but the process of developing tactics, discovering strategic implications, learning things about a bizarre yet internally-consistent environment that will seem in hindsight like inescapably obvious implications of it's basic rules, that's my idea of fun.
No. 103991 ID: a107fd

>Not sure where to start thread 4
Still waiting for Tunic and Mageykun to weigh in on this issue.
No. 103992 ID: d41523

Skipping forward to the consultation with the snake oil hide specialist sounds good. Marijke will want to haggle the best possible deal out of him.
Remember to link the wiki page on the op, so it's still conveniently accessible when the thread passes 50 posts.
No. 103994 ID: 3abd97

Oh! Sorry, didn't realize people were waiting on my input. Or even that input was needed.

Uh... I guess fast forwarding past the waiting would make sense from the game-play perspective, skipping the boring bit and making sure everyone is healed up.

Biggest problem is that in-game, I'm not sure it makes sense for the people nominally in charge to think letting a group of pirates sit idle for up to a month while we wait for payday is the best idea. Too many ways that could go wrong. It's a long time to hang out at one place. (Even if getting paid to hang around is tempting).

I think it would sort of make more sense if we'd moved on. Or at least if we were time-skipping that we're rolling for stuff accomplished during the skip.

If we're staying at the same place, we also need to account for what happens when Stone steps outside the necromancer-healer's tent and finds runs into our crew almost immediately. (Although as luck would have it, he's not going to recognize most of the crew and vice versa).

Not terribly interested in scraping this particular dungeon for all the loot it might contain. It was a target of opportunity. My character would be more interested in making gradual progress towards catching up with the coven so we can cash in those favors.
No. 103997 ID: a107fd

The consultation with the specialist will most likely be a single roll for haggling and then a payment of 1000 gp +/- 10% per degree of success. I'd rather start off with the opportunity to throw that new-thread momentum into something that will involve multiple actions, such as exploring a new environment. Note that the three threads so far opened up with the labyrinth, the beach, and the wagon-basement.
No. 103998 ID: 74ad1d

Again, voting to skip past the haggling for snake skin and then be either on our way towards or arriving at the coven
No. 103999 ID: 3abd97

rolled 4, 5, 5 = 14

I can support that. A new environment sounds more interesting.

Here look, I can even do my haggle roll now to get that out of the way. Lump that into the sum up / exposition.

(And as for the loot split: everyone on the delve gets participant rates, the people who stayed behind get standard crew rates, and Garaile and Llyr are probably most deserving of the tip of the spear combat bonus).
No. 104002 ID: a107fd

Probably the kobold should get an increased share too, since trap-checker is a risky job.

What's your plan for finding the coven? Are you going to be traveling by land, presumably with the wagon, along the coast road, or by sea?

Given six to eight weeks to set up, you could buy a hull and hire necessary crew for a sailing ship with C-rank skills and equipment. Figure 375 gold ($150,000) in setup costs, half of which is licenses, supply contracts, and other dockside stuff that could be transferable if the ship sank or otherwise needed to be replaced. Then, another 35-40 gold per month of activity, depending on how well you manage the bookkeeping and other logistical stuff. That maintenance cost is mostly stuff like rope, tar, lumber, and food, so it's easy to offset by plundering other ships, or coastal villages.

Such a ship could carry about 50 soldiers, or an equivalent amount of cargo, in addition to several months of supplies. Extracting the "basement" from the wagon and either mounting it securely on a ship, or as a freestanding door-frame would be a relatively trivial exercise of carpentry, and it would then weigh only 70lb, out of that multi-ton cargo capacity.
No. 104012 ID: 5aedb4

I think captain gets to say what our gold is invested in and how that all works. Riv would re-iterate though that there's a downed air ship a few days travel from here. If we're gonna get a boat then she would "suggest" going after the airship is a better use of resources
No. 104013 ID: 3abd97

>trap checking is dangerous
Yeah, fair enough.

>by land or by sea
Since we already bought the cart, and with that seafood allergy, I feel like Marijke would be disinclined to go the nautical route.

What would be the estimated costs of a similar trip by land?

(I know I got the captain character and all, but I don't want to dictate what the game is for everyone else. If there's support for the nautical option, she can be talked into it against reservations).
No. 104015 ID: d41523

>Sale: 1000 gp +/- 10% per degree of success
>Ship: 375 gp fixed cost + 35-40 gp per month
Not sure what success is defined as, but taking 10.5 as average nets us 14 - 10.5 = 3.5 = 35% reduction = 65% of 1000 gp = 650 gp from sale
Base cost of ship is 375/650 = 57.69% (over half!) of the snake money gone immediately, before variable costs.
The remainder of the snake money would, if it went solely towards ship maintenance and wasn't distributed to the crew at all, support the cost of the ship for 6-7 months.

Garaile, being focused on the status of the group's equipment, is frankly appalled at how fast the group seems to be planning to spend this windfall of cash. Marijke had better be sure she really wants to visit this coven.
As a general rule, if given a vote, Garaile will forever and always vote against any single expenditure which would deplete (or gamble on) more than half of the group's liquid funds in one go.
No. 104019 ID: a107fd

14 is a bad roll, but Marijke's mercantile skills are probably that high, since it's such a central thing for the character. Call it basic success. So, assuming you sell both the snakeskin and the mirror, that's a 40-pound sack full of gold coins. The previous dividend was already near the limits of how much you can spend at a rural inn in any kind of hurry, short of commissioning new construction.

If you throw 2000 gp at removing the "without a ship" qualifier from your crew of pirates, that gets you a basic ship with enough left over that you can sail around looking for trouble for almost three years before those adventures need to start turning a profit.

>What would be the estimated costs of a similar trip by land?

Potentially zero out of pocket, if you can persuade Gunderbag to serve as a draft animal. Problem is, you don't know exactly where the coven is, just a vague distance along the coast. Traversing the necessary three or four hundred miles is a reasonably straightforward two-day trip by water, but with a wagon you'd be going maybe 20 miles a day on good roads, half that through those bandit-infested hills between the old coast road and the actual beach.
No. 104021 ID: a107fd

Upon hearing of it, Letkra would be surprised we're "able to get a ship so early" and generally be in favor of getting it, especially since we didn't "finish the dungeon" (after all, we didn't reach the bottom or anything), but casually worried we'd get defeated by ocean monsters if we really are getting a ship "early". She seems to assume it's a Thing To Do sooner or later, and mentions something offhand about finding secret islands.

But far more important that that: sea slugs and other sea monsters are cute, and the ocean is awesome, so she's in favor on that basis. Plus it's a more different environment to explore and she figures that checking in more types of places is more likely to result in her finding a way home.
No. 104022 ID: b9aa79

Sounds like letkra would enjoy DQ8! Upon hearing Letkras input, Riv will retract her vote and retreat to her work, elaborating only so far as to let the others know that she will decline to input further
No. 104023 ID: d41523

Llyr, the were-shark who can breathe underwater indefinitely, who has little attachment to money and few reservations about eating his allies should supplies run out, would be absolutely thrilled to have a high-seas pirate adventure and votes for getting the exorbitantly expensive ship at any price.

Garaile will likely have a mild aneurysm from just hearing the words "throw 2000 gp at" and vote very firmly against it, suggesting instead to buy a month's worth of mushroom starch for a fraction of the price and bribe Gunderbag with it. It's also worth noting that Garaile staunchly refuses to support the robbing of any innocents, and will actively oppose the party if such an action is attempted. Unless we're going to exclusively target slavers, other pirates, or similarly morally-deviant groups, there's not going to be much piracy while Garaile is around.
No. 104028 ID: 3abd97

That reminds me, if we're doing basic provisioning before leaving town, I was going to buy medical gloves (at the very least for being able to treat Lryr more safely, and I'm sure many other gory applications) and a sling (to combine with gemstone familiar + touch range spells, in situations where it would be dangerous for Eadric to be flying around in his normal form).

>Marijke had better be sure she really wants to visit this coven.
Does Marijke want to collect what she has been paid? Especially since it's oracular information from a powerful coven of witches that could easily pay off a lot more than we're investing in travel expenses.

If we need a good argument for the ship: it's more than a one-off expense to get somewhere. We're paying for freedom of travel and for the tactical and strategic ability to pick our battles.

>It's also worth noting that Garaile staunchly refuses to support the robbing of any innocents, and will actively oppose the party if such an action is attempted. Unless we're going to exclusively target slavers, other pirates, or similarly morally-deviant groups
I'd agree. There's a fine line between merchant and pirate, but the important bit is that you can't really buy and sell reliably without some kind of civil order. The captain wouldn't be pro disrupting the local economy by razing villages. It's really not worth it from a profit perspective, and in the long run just puts a price on your head.

A privateer model of some kind would probably be preferable. If we're hired by someone, and/or working for one government or another, whatever we're doing is at least as moral as any other soldiering. And we've already done that kind of work once, working for the coven against the eel-ticks.

>what do
The group seems to be swinging pro-ship, and it's a much more interesting plot hook than a slow overland haul past some bandits.

...Marijke is going to need a private store of clean foodstuffs, so she doesn't end up needing to eat deadly deadly seafood. (That alergy was a lot less relevant underground...).
No. 104029 ID: b9aa79

Can we get a solid idea of what funds the group has as a whole, and what we each got individually after last delve? Also, do we get to roll for what we were doing during the break?
No. 104037 ID: d41523

>less than 20% of the group's ready cash
Do we legit have 10k+ in liquid funds? What the hell, we didn't need money at all! Why did we sell the snake skin then? That's more than enough surplus to justify buying a 1k suit of magic armor for the primary tank.

>hills are infested with bandits, but ocean is totally clear
>have to convince selfish NPC to be able to take land route, but can take sea route whenever
>NPC's favorite food just happens to sharply increase in price
>group seems to be swinging pro-ship
Correction: the DM seems to be swinging pro-ship. Just buy it. It will save us from having to deal with a lot of adventitious circumstances later.
No. 104048 ID: a107fd

The entire Dragon Quest series is a big inspiration point for the character concept. I get to thinking about overly-literal interpretations of those games, especially the really early ones, and trying to figure out what sort of a world would have single-use keys on locked doors in towns, and one thing led to another... though there are a few other ideas in the mix as well. Still not sure if I'm walking the line of being un-fourth wall breaking; she's not supposed to be meta/genre savvy, she's from a society that literally operates like that kind of a game.

>>Deadly seafood
It occurs to me that oil might not be readily available on the ocean either.

>>Why did we sell the snake skin then? That's more than enough surplus to justify buying a 1k suit of magic armor for the primary tank.
I thought the plan already was to buy some armor. Also, I was saying in my previous recent posts in this thread that I thought Garaille had a pretty decent bargaining position to ask to use the snake skin, when I was talking about his credibility and seniority in the party.

>hills are infested with bandits, but ocean is totally clear
1: I am not privy to any notes on this subject.
2: Regardless, I very much doubt the ocean is clear. It surely has a unique random encounter table, at the very least (although encounters might be more or less frequent- unclear). Hence the bit about Letkra thinking we might get "defeated" by sea monsters...
3: Conceivably we could take bandits, or work out a deal, or avoid them. In fact, if we managed to clean up the bandits around here, we'd probably get some form of respect from the local government or towns, depending on exactly how we did that and how the diplomacy of it all went.
4: I think going back to the mouth of doom is also still technically an option even if no one's currently pushing for that.

>have to convince selfish NPC to be able to take land route, but can take sea route whenever
Um, no, there are other ways to take the land route. And that's a workable method. And it's cheaper than buying a ship.

>>group seems to be swinging pro-ship
>>Correction: the DM seems to be swinging pro-ship.
I could write another very long post about how he's encouraging different options, supporting coming up with your own new ideas, and is generally pro-simulationism and anti-narrativism thing, but I'm pretty sure I've already done that (as has he) and it was, apparently, discarded. And besides that, everyone else- including one of your own characters?- made a personal case for genuinely wanting that option, so it seems disrespectful to say we're not making our own decisions.

Seriously, there is no planned arc here- isn't that apparent by now? He's been pretty transparent about making stuff up as he goes along and switching paths to suit what part the players wanted to explore or do next. Do you know what it means if the party is exploring on a ship? That's a whole bunch of new areas and story hooks he needs to think up, and a different set of ideas and books to cobble together, instead of going off of the comparatively well-documented Mouth of Doom. If he was railroading, wouldn't it make more sense to make us go back there instead of us poking at an open-ended environment at the edges of the map?

The closest thing to "plans" are in-setting NPCs/monsters (same thing in some regards, the way he thinks of it) that will react logically to whatever is thrown at them. Which could very well mean they get killed we take their stuff, or they become our buddies, or they become our sketchy cohorts like Gunderbag himself did- there might be some thinking ahead about different things that could happen, to figure out what the logical result would be, but it will always, always be decided based on the actions the players are taking.

You have choices. Not fake choices, actual choices. Not only do you have choices, you have an open invitation to think up entirely new courses of action that the DM never considered. The stunt system from Exalted 2nd edition is one of his favorite game mechanics, because it so directly encourages players to do exactly that- to make up their own direction and run with it. That is what this DM wants.

I realize my position here is biased, but it's really weird to me that you keep saying a setting that's made up as we go along, adjusting and expanding to accommodate whatever we poke at, is some sort of railroad without real choices. I don't understand why you feel that way, but it seems like an extremely severe misunderstanding, and a nasty mischaracterization of the DM. I would like to help work this out to be more amicable an friendly, if that's possible.
No. 104049 ID: d41523

Okay, okay. You're right. I didn't mean to imply there's a railroad or to disparage the DM, so I apologize for the previous post. I've just been feeling a bit frustrated lately because it seems like every decision I make or opinion I share is based on false information, which is then corrected after I say it, or worse, after it's too late to change my mind. I based the armor decision on the idea of the party not having much money, but it turns out after we already sold the skin that it wouldn't have even been a tenth of our liquid assets alone. And I suggested buying the starch to convince the npc only to find it's become super expensive. And Sgt. Nick, and on and on with all the other events up to this point. Everything I suggest looks terrible in hindsight, and it makes me feel like my suggestions either don't matter or have a negative overall effect every time.

So I apologize to JamesLeng for implying the party doen't have choices. I understand the party has choices. What I really meant was it feels like I personally don't have choices.
No. 104050 ID: b9aa79

I'm also struggling a bit on figuring out who has what money. The share breakdown was very helpful and very much appreciated, but I'm unsure where previous money lies. The ship was listed as 375, and less than 20% of our assets which means that as a group we have a little over 1875 gold. The thing I don't get is that the snakeskin was 2000 gold, so it seems to me that Jamesleng is not counting crew assets in his total, leaving me to assume he's either counting Nico's assets or Nico's and Marjike's assets for the purposes of the 20%. He just listed Marjike as having 850, and noted that Nico had enough to buy Riv an engagement present worthy of the kardashians, so the math about adds up, with Nico have a little over a thousand (the listed price for those clockwork parts) and marjike have the other 850. As long as someone can verify that for me, I'm gonna extrapolate from there. Before the selling of the snakeskin the captain and Nico combined would have something in the neighborhood 650 gold combined (thats a rough estimate because I don't feel like looking up numbers and getting out the calculator). With a C rank ship being over half of that, and operating expenses eating through the rest in a matter of a few months, the selling of the snake skin is very much a needed windfall for securities sake. Without it's sale the crew would NEED to be dungeon delving regularly as you had suggested before in order to keep the ship and it's crew running in good standing- and if all we find are boots and tapestries then the ship can stay maintained regularly and we stop being able to buy new gear and such- something which makes for a very boring game of pathfinder. So while it's not necessary to sell the snakeskin in order to buy a boat, if we want to buy a boat then paying to get magic armor made out of the most valuable resource the party has is a hard sell in my opinion. YES magic armor is cool and YES Garaile is on the front lines and very much deserving of such protection, but currently that represents a very uneven distribution of the wealth towards him; currently Marjike and Nico are receiving that uneven distribution and being told that it's their job to use it to benefit the crew. If IC there's a problem with the way funds are distributed you'll have to bring it up, but I think, assuming what I've said is more or less right, it's both understandable how the ship seemed like it was going to eat up all 2000 gold of profit but simultainously not even be close to our reserves. We don't have 10,000 gold to throw around, it's just a bit of finacial misunderstanding I think.
In that same vein I, OOC, also believe it would be rather unfair to drop a thousand gold on mechanical parts for Riv while Garaile has all the profits from his near death experience put towards a ship he disapproves of buying. If we're going to evenly distribute the snakeskin funds rather than make armor, then it's unfair to get a special magic item for someone else yanno?
No. 104053 ID: a107fd

>hills are infested with bandits, but ocean is totally clear
Ocean hazards include reefs along the shore, sea monsters, rival pirates, and a coven of hags (with extensive political connections) that sinks ships for a living. You happen to be on good terms with the latter, and have that mind-bondaged giant octopus to help fight off the other monsters, but there's still plenty of potential risk. Either route could involve bad weather, and at sea you can't just hide in a cave until the storm passes. Main advantage of the water route is that, with a substantial capital investment that only recently became affordable, you could move roughly 10x faster, with more cargo and less work. Less time spent in transit means fewer random encounters, and better chance of disengaging from any problems that do arise.

If you'd captured and repaired the Neogi skyship (unlikely but not impossible), flying almost everywhere might seem like a dead-obvious superior option. That's not railroading, it's "when all you have is a hammer." Some advantages are game-changing, and I'm not going to shy away from that.

>have to convince selfish NPC to be able to take land route, but can take sea route whenever

You could also acquire draft animals the normal way, or have Rixxil Kas "persuade" Gunderbag to do the job without his favorite provisions. You could disassemble the wagon and proceed on foot; the exodimensional sanctum's door is awkwardly large but only 70 lb, so with some straps and poles, two ordinary humans could carry it between them.

>NPC's favorite food just happens to sharply increase in price
You extorted the initial stock from goblins as part of a nonaggression pact, without actually checking the price. They grow it underground. There are relatively few routes, and the easiest one recently got more dangerous. Shipping bulk goods long distances without the benefit of modern vehicles isn't easy, and shipping anything through a war zone all the more so. This is a plot hook. If you'd kept most of the mushroom-starch rations instead of recruiting Gunderbag and letting him gorge himself, you could've sold 'em. Opening up a trade route, with Kamlyss's cooperation, remains possible.

>So I apologize to JamesLeng for implying the party doen't have choices.
>I understand the party has choices. What I really meant was it feels like I personally don't have choices.
A lot of your bad information seems to come from pessimistic assumptions. Stop thinking of what an abusive DM would mean if my words were coming out of their mouth, and start listening to (re-reading, whatever) exactly what I've said. If you're uncertain about something, ask questions. Even when you're in a high-time-pressure situation, like exploring a dungeon or other hostile environment, I will not ever penalize you for asking about stuff your character would be able to directly perceive, or remember offhand. In calmer circumstances, where taking a few minutes to stop and smell the roses wouldn't have tactical implications, I still tend to default to relatively terse 'at-a-glance' descriptions, but you should feel free to ask any sort of follow-up questions, corresponding to your character examining a subject in more detail, asking NPCs, or just thinking it over. You want a floor plan of the Black Boar Inn, a list of everyone living or working nearby, dubious taproom rumors about the deeper levels of the dungeon, a dissertation on the economic and political causes of that war in the north, recent conclusion of which has sent so many battle-scarred men southward to push back the frontier or die trying, for lack of civilian career prospects? Feel free. I'll come up with something, mostly extrapolating from what I already know about the setting. Some things are already firmly established, but not specified because they wouldn't be obvious or didn't seem relevant; other times I'll be completely blindsided by what you take interest in and, when necessary, roll something up at random.

>The thing I don't get is that the snakeskin was 2000 gold, so it seems to me that Jamesleng is not counting crew assets in his total,

Snakeskin and Yorgala's mirror were 1000 gold each. I'm only counting the latest round of plunder as it's being portioned out, although that is the majority of the group's liquid assets. 20% of 2000 is 400, and the ship (and crew, and logistical network) is 375 to set up.

For Marijke's cash I was figuring her share of the current plunder along with yet-unspent leftover from the previous payday. Nico likewise.

If Marijke is paying for the ship entirely out of her own share, budget for supplies would run out in about a year... but the adventures so far, from the start of thread one to Stone waking up penniless, took less than one month. Two more months for the ship to be built and delivered, during which time somebody needs to maintain a presence at either the Black Boar Inn or Passholdt to wait for the snakeskin assayer, but now that Rixxil's arrow-extraction ritual is resolved, the three acolytes could provide magical support on visits to the Mouth of Doom or the monastery in the swamp during that time. Or, less exciting downtime activity, such as crafting or further ritual magic.

>a thousand gold on mechanical parts for Riv
Only about 300, actually.
No. 104058 ID: 218c8d

>Only about 300, actually.
Whoops, my bad, making assumptions based on pathfinder prices. Now that Riv has seen the beautiful clockwork of the lockbox though she's sorely tempted to hold out and save up for those (if they're more expensive- I remembered them being 1000 gold). Her familiar has to be perfect if she expects her work to be perfect. Why bring life into this world in a substandard she'll when you can do it sublimely? No, her creation cannot suffer mediocrity when superiority is available. As for the money, if my assessment is indeed incorrect and 20% was 400 out of 2000 do you have estimates on what Marjike and Nico have accumulated? I could probably figure it out myself but that'll take time I don't readily have:
No. 104060 ID: 383927

JamesLeng I wanted ask and get a little more info on what happened with Stone. With both Stone and Alphious I responded to the prompts but I never saw input as to what happened- like I said I'm fine playing one character or ten so i don't mind if there's not room for them or anything like that but I'm just feeling a bit confused and in the dark as to what's happening on that front. I recognize that with school starting, work, personal lives, etc, stuff like running quests can take a back seat, I wasn't sure if anything like that was going on in your life right now that might be making it a bit harder to keep the same level of input into the game
No. 104062 ID: 3abd97

>It occurs to me that oil might not be readily available on the ocean either.

It can be stored in barrels, at least.

>lots of stuff on long term options
I swung towards the ship because it sounds like a more interesting plot hook than the trip overland described, and because it does kind of seem like we lucked into several things that make that the more attractive mode of transit.

I'd favor traveling somewhere new over staying around the inn forever, and I'm not keen on Riv's plan to take on the neogi head on.

I like going towards the coven to collect what they owe us as a long to medium term goal. Other than that... pretty flexible as to what we do in the interim? (Although my character wants to be making a profit somehow, of course).
No. 104091 ID: a107fd

Stone is near the Black Boar Inn, and healthy enough to be functional, but flat broke, so he should probably sign on with Marijke's crew, since they seem to have more money than they know what to do with. He stumbled into town like he was sleepwalking, and Ulman Dark isn't looking for an apprentice or assistant at the moment.

Alphious is in the goblin city of Greznek. I should probably have compiled a big 'splash page' introduction by now, sorry about that. There's a few key things from the original source material that I wanted to significantly rework. http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comic/on-memory-allocation
No. 104095 ID: 383927

>should probably have compiled a big 'splash page' introduction by now
GMing is hard work with little thanks, I completely understand how much time and effort it takes to prepare these things. If you want to set that on the backburner for now, I'm already rolling 2 characters, a third far away from the party, in an entirely new area you have to tailor to your world is a bit unweildly for you and the group as a whole. I still like ALphious as a character, but perhaps now is just not the right time, especially when you've got to make the ocean adventure as well.

>he should probably sign on with Marijke's crew
This of course would be up to the crew, but a large number of well armed adventurers with gold to spare and an aimless quest that will take them to new lands in search of gold and power, why, it almost sounds as if Stone was designed so that this would fit his needs to a T. As long as he's permitted to he'll sign up right away; if Marjike wants to roleplay any of that or pose it to the crew I'm more than happy to get into the nitty gritty as my favorite battle priest
No. 104101 ID: 3abd97

Recruitment really isn't much of an issue from a few points of view- we're hiring crew for the ship anyways, and we've successfully integrated people who were opposite sides of fights before. (Although not someone the group unilaterally attacked and drove off).

Not sure if Stone would realize who he's joining, although he'd certainly have a chance to catch on when he sees our ogre and archer.

Marijke got a look at his aura last time, so she'll recognize him, at least. Other people could put two and two together when they realize he's a leg-missing necromancer.

Are you going to try and get your leg back? We haven't sold that yet, I think.

If you can control undead other than zombies, the attic whisper might be of interest to your character.

Biggest potential conflict might be with Than, considering her opposition to the undead.
No. 104103 ID: 74ad1d

>chance to catch on when he sees our ogre and archer.
Stone doesn't have very broad horizons- aka all you ogres look the same to me. He'd be suspicious, but he never saw Than, hence his failed retreat. His major problem was that he couldn't see anyone and had to get to defensible terrain. The problem will be when he sees Lyrr. A awkward conversation with Captain Marjike and some help getting opium while he's still broke from the surgery caused by his last altercation with her crew, and he'll be happy to lend his spear to your crew. He's not that keen on his leg- it's not doing him much good now that it's not attached, and as you can see by how articulate his current necrotic joints are, he's not really in need of another leg. He confers his skill with the undead is as of today a relatively new thing for him. If it bothers other crew members, he is happy to discuss it with them, but unless you'd like to instill a stipulation into his signing on regarding the dead and subsequent control, he's not going to make any special accommodations. Co-exsistance with others who do not share your beliefs is an essential part of ones growth and journey as an individual, and all should strive to broaden their horizons and accomadate ideas. Or at least something that sounds like that, his accent makes him kind of hard to understand sometimes.
No. 104107 ID: d41523

>highly recognizable by the party
>misunderstandings still not cleared up
>personal problem with arguably most unstable party member
>is broke
>wants a hit of opium before he'll join the party
>won't make special accommodations for necromancy
I think you're going to have to work a little harder than that to make it onto the crew. We're hiring, but we're not desperate. A not insignificant number of us are also pretty convinced you're an enemy who has attacked us at least once before, since that event ended without closure. Depending on who is present when you make your appearance, you may actually be aggressed on sight.

>biggest potential conflict might be with Than, considering her opposition to the undead.
While it is true Than is an actual Ghostbuster, it may be worth noting that Garaile is a divine warrior serving a god whose portfolio explicitly includes "destruction of undead". (See >>/quest/743292 )
No. 104112 ID: 74ad1d

>pretty convinced you're an enemy who has attacked us
Hence the "one awkward conversation later transition"
If you'd rather RP meeting in the tavern or something similar in more than happy to though; what I meant by "wont make accommodations" is more along the lines of
A) I've got no undead in tow
B) I'm not going to be actively summon, creating, or attaching myself to the undead for the time being
C) You all attacked me in sight, ripped my leg off and thusly stripped me of most of my wealth and medicine. After its cleared up that no, I didn't attack you, it was just an unfortunate misunderstanding, Stone would like a small loan so he can get some drugs, which he will pay back once he earns some money
D) if the party want to make a stipulation that he won't go around commanding hordes of undead, all you guys have to do is establish that as part of the contract. He'll think you're close minded and afraid of the dark, but he has no money, no opium, and his food and water rations won't last a hell of a lot longer. He's desperate for work right now.
My main point wasn't that he'd be actively going against your wishes and making zombie soup at the dinner table; simply that he doesn't believe there's anything more wrong with animate bone and flesh than there is animated stone or metal. We all die in the end, what's a few more days of locomotion in the long run of a corpses life?
Philosophically he has some cultural and religious beliefs that don't match the party but he's polite and pretty down on his luck right now, in no small part to his last run in with your ogre. He's simply asking for some help getting back on his feet and in return he'll follow your rules and fight for you. Undead won't be a problem as long as long as Marjike makes a rule about it when she hires him on. If not, you guys will have to talk to her or fight and most likely kill Stone (which is okay, like I said I don't mind if people die as long as we're having fun). He's happy to spend hours discussing the philosophy of life and death and wear to draw the line with anyone who comes and challenges his beliefs.
No. 104136 ID: a107fd

>I'm not going to be [...] attaching myself to the undead

Funny you should say that, because Ulman Dark replaced the broken-off portions of Stone's petrified leg with the corresponding parts of an animated skeleton.
No. 104137 ID: b1b9f9

We did note that, and if that is a problem for the crew then we're at a harder impass than I originally thought. Stone would argue that his leg should not be a problem since
A) your ogre is the reason his leg is currently more bone and less stone
B) no one would have an issue with his left leg, but his right is suddenly a problem simply because it's animated by magic rather than flesh? If you would be so close minded to disallow that on your pre-conceived notions of the world then perhaps a long term arrangement with your crew will not be needed. [spoiler] it's okay if religious difference block stone from joining up with the crew, I'll just hang onto Riv and let him work his way way back into food security in town, perhaps interact with the party again at a later date.
No. 104138 ID: b1b9f9

We did note that, and if that is a problem for the crew then we're at a harder impass than I originally thought. Stone would argue that his leg should not be a problem since
A) your ogre is the reason his leg is currently more bone and less stone
B) no one would have an issue with his left leg, but his right is suddenly a problem simply because it's animated by magic rather than flesh? If you would be so close minded to disallow that on your pre-conceived notions of the world then perhaps a long term arrangement with your crew will not be needed. it's okay if religious difference block stone from joining up with the crew, I'll just hang onto Riv and let him work his way way back into food security in town, perhaps interact with the party again at a later date.
No. 104140 ID: 3abd97

>A not insignificant number of us are also pretty convinced you're an enemy who has attacked us at least once before
I would point out this isn't the first time we've attacked someone, caused them financial loss, and then ended up recruiting them anyways.

We ended up parting on neutral terms with the goblins who betrayed us and I fed to spiders, the acolytes who were accessories to trying to sacrifice us now work for us, and Gunderbag and Rixxil previously worked for a group we basically assaulted and robbed (after they tried to cheat us).

In comparison, Stone didn't even get a shot off before we overwhelmed him and forced him to retreat in disarray. We have less an axe to grind with him than any of our other former enemies we recruited.

>conflict with Than and/or Garaile
That's a stickier point, although it might come down to what he's allowed to do.

Perhaps a simple injunction against creating undead?

There would certainly be a tactical advantage to being able to take control of undead already in the environment. If we're going to destroy our enemies anyways, why not compel them to destroy each other first? (I mean, we already employ offensive mind magic, and this would functionally be the same thing, except restricted to unholy abominations- theoretically less objectionable compared to what Marijke and Rixxil already do to people).

Stone's character wants to free himself of his curse, correct? Certainly seeking redemption, or turning the dark forces against themselves, might be appealing?
No. 104142 ID: 716fdd

>Perhaps a simple injunction against creating undead?
Stone his happy to oblige to that and more if the captain rules it so. His society has a big focus on hierarchy, and listening to the rules of the guy in charge is important to him. It's also important that Garaile and Than also be willing to listen to rules AKA if Marjike says it's okay for him to join up and control undead, then either they need to assume command of the group or respect the choices of their superiors and get over their bias. Basically, as long as Garaile and Than are okay with the rules Marjike sets, so is Stone

>this would functionally be the same thing
Stone agrees- he feels that much of the objections to his particular set of strengths is based on broken ideals without consistent internal logic. He's happy to debate with others in a friendly and polite manner- he does not blame them for their beliefs and knows he himself holds undeniable biases. It is part of existence, one should simply seek to broaden their horizons whenever they can.

>Stone's character wants to free himself of his curse, correct? Certainly seeking redemption, or turning the dark forces against themselves, might be appealing?
Stone elaborates that his curse is not related directly to his ability to control undead- that's new but he's kinda just Rollin with it. Four generations ago one of his forebearors was cursed to slowly turn to stone, and to pass this malady onto his children, and his children's children, and his etc etc you get the idea. He explains further that he was born the seventh son of a seventh son, and because of this happenstance he was burdened with a great power and destiny. He could both see and hear the four generations of ancestors who bore the curse before him. The curse tied them to their world, and they could not move on to the next until the curse on his family line was broken. They attached themselves to him as he was the only able body that could interact with them clearly and regularly. He has not known peace since birth, and seeks to free his family for their sales and his. Because of this he takes pride in releasing tormented souls from this plane as an act of mercy. Many undead however are simply flesh golems, void of soul and mind, simple constructs animated through a skillful and respectable art. He takes no more joy in destroying the dead than one does in being pitted against life threatening creatures of any kind. And for the sentient dead, he takes his task with an attitude of reverence and solemn duty, how one night when providing a painless death to a terminally afflicted member of your village. They deserve deserve freedom, but it is not an event that brings joy.
No. 104147 ID: d41523

I'm going to have to ask JamesLeng for help with Garaile's stance on Stone's brand of necromancy. What does the Old God whose sacred number is 4, etc. etc. etc., think about Stone? Garaile will naturally also share that opinion.
No. 104151 ID: b1b9f9

Also please note any frustration or hostility expressed is in character at other game characters, not OOC directed at anyone. I just like to play difficult people apparently- I didn't even think of this as a potential problem when I was creating him or I woulda gone with Athalon.
Question for JamesLeng
A) can I call you James or Leng for shorthand, or is it kinda a package deal when it comes to you handle
B) if at some point I became incapacitated any threw someone else into the mix, if someone specializes in mounted combat like a cavalier or something if that nature, is an appropriately sized mount available upon start? I'm assuming not, but wanted to check to make sure, see if there's some way to get that in with the starting kit possibly
No. 104156 ID: a107fd

The Burning Hate makes a good power source for 'holy warrior' types, but in terms of moral guidance... well, comparisons could be made to the blind idiot Demon Sultan Azathoth (who is, for the record, not part of this cosmology). The Old God of the Sun destroys undead not because they're a perversion of some natural cycle, nor for the many and varied hazards they pose to the living, nor for any other comforting reason; no, He detests restless spirits and walking corpses for their inability to feel pain. How do you inflict purification-through-suffering on something that's categorically immune to torture, whether physical or psychological? You can't! So, just annihilate the useless thing and find another speck to play with.

>can I start with a horse
Yes, indirectly. Rich bastard can start with a minor permanent magic item. Some sort of horse-retrieving whistle would be a valid option.
No. 104162 ID: d41523

??? So, am I suppose to attack anyone who doesn't feel pain, like Letkra? Or do I basically just completely ignore my deity's opinion and treat the Old God of the Sun as a glorified power dispenser?

You could also go soldier and just say your horse was stolen or slain in battle, and acquire a new one when you come into some money. You could even use that as a motivator for why you want to join the crew. Although you may find mounted combat is not particularly suited for a high-seas adventure, unless you can get a pegasus or some other winged mount.
No. 104166 ID: b1b9f9

My mount in mind is well suited to most terrain, a ship would be comical but not infeasible.

Regarding the no pain undead thing though, It's possible that Garaile has a crisis of faith- he was brought up that undead are evil- why? Or well for reason A. But when reason A starts applying to other things besides undead, or some undead don't fall under reason A, then the questioning of his upbringing begins. He is devout because he is a good man who does his best to do good things, correct? Mayhaps his God was his best method of doing good, but as he discovers more about the being behind the power, the flaws of his leader might start to trouble him. Character development is game development.

Alternatively, he can go the route of "I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand!" Who stands by his good nature and just doesn't allow for too much questioning or soul searching to disrupt his inner peace. He could also find that he believes retribution through pain is an important part of life. Straying from the path of the right is wrong, and one should be punished accordingly before being accepted back into the fold. A man willing to submit himself to pain in exchange for absolution truely is someone who seeks to right his wrongs.

Or, another route this could perhaps go, is that Garaile disagrees with some of the reasons he should do things, but still thinks they need to get done. Undead are an abomination- the only reason we destroy them instead of re-adjust them is because they cannot feel pain, they cannot truely repent for their misdeeds. But wether or not they can feel pain, they are still evil; no pain is just why they should be destroyed rather than shown the light. Not everything in the teachings is necessarily worth repeating, but the core messages are still righteous and should be adhered to.

It doesn't have to just be "wow my gods a dick so either I have to be one or I loose my powers" character development is a very engaging and worthy plot hook. This can be a lot deeper than the surface of "lepers deserve to die"
No. 104167 ID: a107fd

Garaile is not a paladin, and failure to adhere to a cosmic horror's moral strictures (or rather, to it's fundamental lack of mortal-compatible morality) will not result in the loss of supernatural powers derived therefrom.
It should further be noted >>96246
that the Old God of Glory, Healing, and the Sun is also, equally, a god of Darkness.
No. 104168 ID: 3abd97

Man do I dig fucked up cosmologies.

>So, am I suppose to attack anyone who doesn't feel pain, like Letkra? Or do I basically just completely ignore my deity's opinion and treat the Old God of the Sun as a glorified power dispenser?
I think the way I would think of it is that Garaile was chosen for the depths of his convictions. He wasn't touched for doing / believing what was moral, but your strength of will, your certainty in your own actions was reciprocated.
No. 104172 ID: a107fd

>A) can I call you James or Leng for shorthand, or is it kinda a package deal when it comes to you handle
I'd prefer the whole thing. If for whatever reason you must refer to me with fewer characters, JAL or S_P would be acceptable. Ideally the former would be in some angular font, pale green, with the central character largest, while for the latter the only stipulation is that the underscore must not be omitted, unless a limited character set requires it to be replaced with the numeral 7. If you're waxing poetic, feel free to make overwrought oblique references to a Secluded, Serpentine Plateau, or the Apostle of the Architect of Ruination.
No. 104174 ID: b1b9f9

Don't have to shorten it, I'm happy to go with whatever your preferred handle is!
No. 104180 ID: a107fd

>The objection is... sort of a lawful evil logic kind of thing? (Not that I want to stamp a restrictive alignment system on here). Namely that the small bonus of Llyr's share isn't worth breaking the group's rules in a way that could be used to challenge or undermine her leadership down the line. Ripping off your own minions' benefit plan is right there in the evil overlord list!

This is why I like the (pre-3e) Exalted virtue system. Compassion, Conviction, Temperance, and Valor correspond remarkably well to Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos, but instead of a wobbly compass-needle, any given character has an independent rating from 1 to 5 (or, rarely, 0 or 6+) in each. Excessive temperance and conviction could make someone an alarmingly competent evil overlord, or a hardworking and incorruptible bureaucrat, or Hank Hill, depending on the balance of their remaining virtues and a variety of other factors.
No. 104189 ID: d41523

>crit fail applied to learning the kobolds' names, teaching them humish, and ensuring their rights
Welp, these kobolds are screwed.

>exalted alignment
Out of curiosity, where do the current party members fall on this scale? Garaile seems to have a decent amount of all those things. Compassion for the powerless, conviction of faith, temperance in self-discipline, and valor in standing in harm's way. Meanwhile, Llyr seems to have none of those things except maybe valor. No compassion, no strong convictions, very little temperance, and valor only so far as a fool doesn't understand danger. On a Pathfinder alignment scale, I rate Garaile at Neutral Good, and Llyr at Chaotic Neutral.
No. 104190 ID: 11a968

This was really fun to think about actually.
Riv categorizes everything in the world into 2 groups: things that have power over her, and things that she has power over. She feels that knowledge is the best way to increase the latter and decrease the former, so she avidly seeks it in order to better equip herself against the world. For instance, her current biggest fear, something wich holds immense power over her, is her mortality. She has to play by its rules, and so she is currently seeking a way to free herself from its shakles and find immortality. The fewer rules that dictate what she can and cannot do, the better. The only rules she cares about are ones with power over her. So, accordingly, with 10 being high and 1 being low, I'd rate her conviction at 8, temperance at 4, compassion at 3 and valor at 4. Society and the world as a whole is trying to do her in in her own mind at least so she's determined to neutralize that threat first before it can kill her, and she's willing to do so by any means nessicary. Different iterations of her have fluctuated a bit in terms of alignment, but in this story and environment I'd say she's CN waxing on CE. She doesn't care about anyone but herself, has little to nothing in the ways of moral boundaries, and if it would gain her more than she would lose, she is more than prepared to kill, maim, or anything following that train of thought to protect herself and further her goals. There is only what has power over her, and what she has power over, and until those are balanced at a happy nothing and everything, she will restlessly pursue perfection
No. 104200 ID: a107fd

This is a remarkably Neogi-like attitude, other than being unleavened by sophisticated mercantile theories and rationalizations. "Doesn't care for anyone but herself" means thoroughly prioritizing Conviction over Compassion, or in D&D terms, pure CE with no 'wax on, wax off' caveats. Even typical ogres hold family loyalty as sacred.
No. 104202 ID: b9aa79

I have a general backstory and idea for a character, but each time I re-use them and make them in a new world they change and adapt slightly. In all forms she is ostracized by her village at a young age. Growing up without family, caretakes, any real loved ones or possessions to get attached to, her formative years didn't really grant her a wealth of interpersonal skills. She adoption and subsequent abuse by her master taught her everything she knows about how to interact with other creatures. She doesn't hold stock in the concept of good and evil, of ethnocentric moral compasses. No, if her experiences have taught her anything, it is that the world and it's inhabitants are selfish, cruel, and greedy, just in different forms. If she wants to stay alive and away from the subjugation of her past, she needs to be stronger than anything that can enforce rules on her. In the end, there is only the rules of power, and she seeks to ensure those rules benefit her at the expense of others, rather than the other way around.
In her original orientation she was taken in after being freed from her forced tutelage, by a fiercely loyal and extremely patient group of people that regarded her as their kin. She was taught that experiment on people in their sleep is not really an acceptable thing to do, and that society works much better if you live within it rather than against it. However, in this iteration of her character, upon being freed she was homeless, her only "family" left dead. She was forced to live on the streets to fend for herself, but her deformities barred her from much of society. or so I would assume at least She was then shortly drugged and enslaved again, stripped of her meager possession and locked into a cage to do the bidding of others. They had more power than her, and so she suffered. Her master had more power over her, and so she suffered. Society had power over her and she suffered. She is determined that she will learn from all this, and that it will not happen to her again. She is not actively malicious in the sense that she wishes to harm others. She takes no pleasure in others pain, but at the same times rarely feels regret or grief for causing it. No, those feelings can only get in the way, and she does her best to cordon them off. She firmly believes in the anarchy and the abolishment of government. her former master was quite the philosopher, and taught her much of the evil that society would try to bring to bear on her and himself, and how oppressive and stifling it is, how it impedes the progress of the rational mind etc etc She herself doesn't consider the neogi or her masters evil for what they did- she simply received the shit end of the stick in those circumstances. Moralities are false and ultimately selfish anyways, and the rules are deiced arbitrarily, and change from person to person. Rather than try to understand them, she is simply reserved to live by her rules, and ensure the shit end of the stick isn't in her corner ever again.

So yeah, I guess she's kinda an evil bastard in this world. She is still malleable though, and you my see inconsistencies in her personal philosophies once she creates life in the form of her familiar. I would definitely watch her though, especially if you hold a position of power. She has complicated feelings regarding certain members of the crew though, one of which is Letkra. She's not always going to act predictably, and might not always say what's on her mind. Just be aware that her character may seem to shift rapidly and radically; part of the whole "chaotic, no rules" kind deal. If one isn't aware of her own guidance system then it can be difficult to tell where she's going.
No. 104282 ID: a107fd

>>Society and the world as a whole is trying to do her in in her own mind at least so she's determined to neutralize that threat first before it can kill her
Neutralize society and the world as a threat? The entire world? Is Riv on her way to becoming an omnicidal supervillain? That could be interesting...

Also, I was wondering about this, from the IC thread (3):
>> In comparison, she treats the rest of the crew, aside from letkra, as if they were beneath her and that even if she is not captain she is clearly superior and should be obeyed.
Why does she treat Letkra differently? And how does she act instead?

As far as Letkra's alignment... I think neutral good is what I'd be going for, and in terms of Exalted virtues.. not sure if I can put good numbers to it, but I think the comparative order would be Compassion, Temperance, Conviction, Valor? I haven't thought that through for sure, despite loosely basing elements of the character on a previous Exalted character.

More philosophically, Letkra doesn't have a very clear concept of mortality and the harshness of the world, but she's been raised in an environment where being nice to each other is the default and where there's not much to truly fight over, because needs are already met- she doesn't really get the idea of being desperate or true suffering. But she is inclined to be helpful and nice; it's less about denying what's going on, and more like being oblivious to how bad it can get.
No. 104284 ID: 383927

I have seen the post, but I'm not sure if Riv has any input or would even think it in her place to talk over marjike on the subject of the wagon. So, acknowledging that there has been an update, but not sure what I would contribute at this point.
No. 104290 ID: 383927


>on her way to becoming an omnicidal supervillain

It's not so much that she want's to watch the world burn as it is society she's out to destroy. She's not really all about chaos and murder for their own sakes, she just sees civilization as a crude web of lies meant to oppress the people and she aims to abolish it. But yeah as we've said she's not exactly in the right frame of mind and even if her motivations aren't even she's not really a good person.

>Why does she treat Letkra differently? And how does she act instead?

I'd like to flesh it out more IC so I don't want to give away all her motivations, but from what you would have observed she's significantly less condescending and rude to letkra; not necessarily the deferential treatment she gives Marjike, who she views as her master essentially, but simply quieter and less abrasive towards her. She listens when she Letkra speaks, and doesn't do weird things like steal her blood. Essentially, she's more polite to Letkra than anyone else. Up to your character if she wants to pursue that further.
No. 104291 ID: d41523

>Letkra doesn't have a very clear concept of mortality and the harshness of the world, but she's been raised in an environment where being nice to each other is the default and where there's not much to truly fight over, because needs are already met- she doesn't really get the idea of being desperate or true suffering. But she is inclined to be helpful and nice; it's less about denying what's going on, and more like being oblivious to how bad it can get.
I really like this description actually, because Llyr has a similar status but nearly the opposite upbringing. He'd grown up in an environment where animal selfishness is the default and where everything has to be wrested away from nature, but his inherent physical advantages and healing factor mean he also never developed a very clear concept of mortality, nor ever experienced desperation or true suffering. His own obliviousness makes him inclined towards self-gratifying behavior above anything else.

Backstory-wise, I imagined him as being the child of some hermit fisherman and a rather unusual Catch of the Day who found her match and decided to stick around, thus being raised more-or-less completely detached from any civilized society. He would have learned Humish from his father, along with other useful tricks like tying knots, using spears and knives, and making his own clothes, while his mother taught him about the natural world in ways no human ever could and certainly would have been the source of his "law of the jungle"-type behavior. Eventually, he grew old enough to bid his parents farewell and set off on his own, to seek out excitement, adventure, and a mate for life.

>I rate Llyr at Chaotic Neutral
Thinking more closely about it now, I think Llyr's particular hobbies and interests may be more accurately described as CE than CN. He doesn't actively pursue an evil agenda, but he doesn't have much he holds sacred, nor any sort of taboos regarding, say, eating people whenever he feels like it, although he still forms attachments just like anyone else. Also, just for the record, Llyr prefers fish meat over any other kind of meat, if given the choice, although he's just as likely to opt for "both" if they're both freely available.
No. 104299 ID: 3abd97

>Neutralize society and the world as a threat? The entire world? Is Riv on her way to becoming an omnicidal supervillain? That could be interesting...
>She's not really all about chaos and murder for their own sakes, she just sees civilization as a crude web of lies meant to oppress the people and she aims to abolish it.
I guess Riv never reached the conclusion that society is what keeps the chaos and murder from getting you all the time.

Also, wow, did Riv pick a bad person to work for. If Marijke knew that, and actually believed there was a real chance Riv could accomplish the downfall of society and civilization writ large (instead of writing it off as the ramblings of a mad child), she'd be horrified.

As the social manipulator and the merchant, Marijke would probably be one of civilization's stronger advocates in our group of misanthropes. Wealth doesn't bring you real security or safety without some kind of social structure to wield it in, you need civilization on some level for trade, hell, even for piracy to work you need institutions of some kind to prey on and exploit. Same for social advantages and lots of other things- levers works better when they're tied into systems. Sure, war profiteering has its place, but war is more a shuffling around the players and who's winning. Not tearing the whole damn game down.

Nevermind that despite everything Marijke does try to think of herself as a good person, and "ruining civilization for everyone" is something she can very easily easily put in the "bad" column, emotionally.

(Of course, this is more broad- talking about the ideas of civilization and society. This is not to say the good captain could not potentially be turned against a specific civilization. We had a plot hook earlier that could have eventually lead to opposing the dracocracy. Which I would probably still put down in the "crazy" column at this point, but it is an option).

Riv's a specialist, and Marijke hasn't been shy in consulting the mages and others where their knowledge would be relevant. Hopefully this would lead to Riv understanding she can speak up if she has reason to, but who knows.
No. 104301 ID: 383927

Yeah I drew some inspiration from the whole "raining fire" thing- she's not usually such a paranoid conspiracy theorist, anarchy plotting, unscrupulous child, but the elements just aligned in such a way that made me feel that was the way she'd turn out. I'm hoping that as things progress she'll grow as a character, maybe un-learn some of her master-slave behaviors and become slightly less evil as a person. I do like the idea if creating a anti-government black market group of pirates working to overthrow the dracoracy though- maybe we could finalize this campaign with Marjike taking her place as trade queen of her new federation, established in the wake of the fall of the drakes. That's just me personally though. I promise Riv's character is malleable and not stuck in her current less than tenable form
No. 104302 ID: a107fd

>Backstory-wise, I imagined him as being the child of some hermit fisherman and a rather unusual Catch of the Day who found her match and decided to stick around,

So, the rule-63 sequel to this? http://g.e-hentai.org/s/64b4518f52/512031-17 (NSFW, in case that wasn't obvious from the URL) Sounds about right.

>doesn't actively pursue an evil agenda,
>not really all about chaos and murder for their own sakes,

In my understanding of the alignment system, sadism or pyromania or whatnot may correlate with evil, but such specific preferences are neither necessary nor sufficient. A good-aligned sadist might practice ethical BDSM, inflicting pain under controlled and consensual circumstances, to the long-term benefit of all involved. As for a good-aligned pyromaniac, you need look no further than the fireworks displays of Gandalf the Grey.
The key factor is, in economic terms, externalities. Violence always has costs. A (smart) neutral person tries to keep those costs from spilling over onto uninvolved parties, because sooner or later making a mess will come back around and cause more hostility. Don't shit where you eat.
An evil person doesn't make any effort to minimize the costs, only to ensure those costs fall outside the circle of people they care about. Shit just happens, so anyone who forgot to carry an umbrella had it coming.
A good person tries to minimize needless suffering even when dealing with sworn enemies, because they're people too. Don't shit anywhere but a proper latrine, situated such that it won't contaminate the groundwater.

>abolish civilization
So, Riv wants to topple the Drakocracy... and then what? Bring back the days when archwizards faced no limitations but their own ingenuity and the defenses of their peers? The divine interregnum of Avamerin's Heresy? Or maybe roll the clock all the way back to the Snail-Unicorn War? What does her perfect world look like?
No. 104304 ID: 383927

In that case this iteration of her is firmly evil. If you're not smart enough to get by then you're shit out of luck in her opinion. Other versions of her are definitely more neutral though; she can still be redeemed. Ex: She would gladly experiment on living creatures, but she finds kidnapping and force an unsatisfactory method of obtaining subjects. Rather than take a town by force and demand captives in exchange of the lives of others, she would prefer willing targets- people who might be willing to die if their families are well compensated, people who want a chance at supernatural abilities and strengths despite the risks, people who need a quick buck and are willing to do anything to get it, etc. Once someone entered themselves into service though, she would not hear any complaints. A willing victim is one with no grounds for complaints, and to do so anyways is disgusting. Still evil, but not AS evil as she could be

>and then what?
Well, that first one is actually pretty close. A lot of her ideals and world views are informed by her master, so if he lived through or knew of times before the dracocracy she would probably lean in that direct. Her general leaning is towards a world of unfettered advancement. Rules are okay as long as they don't impede her ability to conduct research and pursue her goals and interests. She will not however allow herself to be put on trail for breaking rules. SHe has lived under the codes and stipulations of others for far too long. She won't allow herself to be burned at the stake because of someone elses code of ethics. Her current goal as stated is immortality; once she breaks free from the laws of death nothing shall have jurisdiction over her. So, if there comes a time in this campaign where she somehow manages to see the current government overthrow, then she still has that to work towards.
No. 104306 ID: 3abd97

>Marjike taking her place as trade queen of her new federation
Well that's pretty far from a bad end, Marijke's version of a good end would probably be something closer to "get rich beyond belief and retire to a villa".

>A lot of her ideals and world views are informed by her master
Past master or whoever her current one is?

For someone who seems so intent on tearing down the social order, Riv seems paradoxically committed to the idea of someone owner her. You'd think any revolution would necessitate throwing off her own bonds.
No. 104312 ID: 383927

>Past master or whoever her current one is

Her personality is majorly influenced by her previous master/adoptive father. She was cast out by her people at a young age, and taken in as the apprentice to a master alchemist. He was the only family she ever had, and while she resents her time as his slave/apprentice/daughter, she was young, feelings and roles get mixed up, so it was all kind of a jumble of role models for her he taught her everything she knows, not just about alchemy but about life and the world. He was a cruel man, but a very smart one and she respects his ideas. She was in his custody for 10 years, and that kind of long term abuse and brain washing is hard throw off, hence the support of his ideals, rather than their rejection. Deep down she's still afraid to disobey him, even if just ideologically. To clarify, when she last saw him he was dead at her feet, by the hands of wandering mercenaries. She doesn't entirely believe hes dead though, but whether or not he's still out there he no longer has jurisdiction over her. He was such a powerful figure in her life for such a long time though she hasn't really shaken herself of his influence.

As far as her current master is concerned, Marjike takes up that mantle. Sorry if that was unclear, but most of Riv's behavior towards her is due to the fact she considers her equivalent to a master, even if that's not really how their relationship actually works out, that's how she perceives it in her own little world.

>committed to the idea of someone owner her

Keep in mind she's been owned by someone most of her entire life. When she wasn't, she was left destitute, starving on the outskirts of civilization, no resources, barely able to scrape by and support herself. Even if she's not forced under the rules of a person, she's still subject to the laws of nature which she considers an equal bond. She doesn't really understand interacting with people without that sort of relationship. It's not that she WANTS to be owned- she just doesn't know anything else. The idea that she could enter into a crew of people and be considered an equal, be considered free to make decisions as she pleases, is so alien she never even considered it. If the captain realizes what exactly Riv is thinking, sits down and is like "Look my dude, I'm not your master." she honestly still wouldn't quite get it, although she might change a little, speak out and stuff more.
No. 104317 ID: a107fd

>if he lived through or knew of times before the dracocracy
Probably not. The Drakocracy is a sort of meta-government. Unnumbered kingdoms have risen and fallen within it's guidance, in the four millennia or more since Aguinbreke, author of it's founding principles, expired of life.

>She will not however allow herself to be put on trail for breaking rules. SHe has lived under the codes and stipulations of others for far too long. She won't allow herself to be burned at the stake because of someone elses code of ethics.
Dragons don't do show trials. If you pose a threat to some individual kingdom, let the king handle it; if he can't, apparently he wasn't a very good king, so they'll let you take over and see if you turn out to be a better one. If you screw with the economy in some way that results in them having less gold available to sleep on, they'll try to discourage that, but mostly in subtle and roundabout ways, or simply by asking politely. If you pose a threat to all of them at once, they'll do whatever needs to be done to end the threat. They simply feel the same way about progress toward mass-producible gunpowder weapons, or formal research into arcane magic, as you feel about having a knife pressed tight against your neck.

Immortality is fine; many spirits are naturally immortal and they get along in the Drakocracy as well as anyone. Toppling kingdoms and challenging individual dragons is fine as long as you're taking it seriously, accepting honorable surrenders rather than insisting on genocidal atrocities, and pursuing some comprehensible agenda that includes hooks for economic manipulation. If you want to be an eternal, invulnerable demon lord whose merest whim is beyond question, that's tolerable, so long as you mostly limit your depredations to some sort of pocket realm, as with Orcus.

You only really need to topple the drakocracy if you want to be able to say "I reserve the right to kill any dragon, anywhere, any time, with no warning, and furthermore to delegate this capability to others," and mean it, such as by adding Familicide http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html to your own spell list as well as a college's curriculum, or upgrading peasants to riflemen http://www.mangahere.co/manga/gate_jietai_kare_no_chi_nite_kaku_tatakeri/c006/16.html
No. 104330 ID: 383927


>You only really need to topple the drakocracy if you want to be able to say "I reserve the right to kill any dragon, anywhere, any time, with no warning, and furthermore to delegate this capability to others,"
>They simply feel the same way about progress toward mass-producible gunpowder weapons, or formal research into arcane magic, as you feel about having a knife pressed tight against your neck.

For Riv, these two statements contradict. She wants to overthrow the drakocracy, not because she wants to kill all dragons, but because she feels they are oppressive for disallowing the research into fields that could cause mass death and destruction, to other and to themselves. Riv doesn't really want to kill anyone, she just considers this silencing of knowledge a grater tragedy than the loss of life that might ensue from allowing it. She's the kind of scientist who says "yeah, the splitting of the atom may destroy the world and kill us all, but to hell with it if I'm not gonna try anyways". Her protest is a rather extremist view on censorship, and her deep love of knowledge. The pursuit of knowledge is the most noble, and should not be stopped because a tyrant fears it may be turned against them. Whether that's the dragons true motivation doesn't really matter to Riv, that's just how she views their actions and motivations .

As for the trial comment, that was direct towards her ideal world, saying she's fine if people make laws as long as they don't expect her to stand trail for them. I was not meaning to apply it to the current governments and power structures, or insinuating that it happened in her past. She's just not willing to value someone elses rules over her life and freedom.
No. 104331 ID: 383927

>"I'm calling 'I told you so' on a full on attack being a bad idea!".

Riv isn't going to address the comment in character, but I will say we weren't planning on riding griffins in over the ocean which, as noted, was a significant portion of the problem. Secondarily, if we avoided turning berserk and fighting each other because we know better than to look the umberhulks head on, I dare say we'd do even better. The eye thing could definitely have been a TPK, but she's still of the mind that if approached properly the endeavor could be a game changer for the party, quite literally. They just need a different game plan more suited to their strengths and the enemy's weakness
No. 104340 ID: a107fd

The dragons aren't really oppressing new research, though. Apart from enriching themselves, they're mainly trying to prevent rediscovery of technologies which were already empirically proven to result in approximately everyone dying. Aguinbreke's Account of the Fall is independently-verifiable history, not alarmist dystopic speculation.

>know better than to look the umberhulks head on
There are limits to how much such foreknowledge actually helps when one of them pops out of the sand like a jack-in-the-box. Either you reflexively look, and maybe go crazy, or you very carefully avoid looking and get sucker-punched. Being up in the air puts you out of melee range, so not looking should have been safe.
No. 104342 ID: 383927

Riv is more driven by emotion than she'd care to admit to herself or someone else. As far as she's concerned she is dictated by logic alone, and emotions are a sign of weakness found primarily in lesser creatures. She is, however, deeply flawed and heavily influenced by a much less scrupulous master. Some of her beliefs are rooted at a deeper, more ingrained level and while she may cover her ass with excuses, things like "if everyone is dying then they should really just be better at surviving" and "I'm not really part of the populous, the fall of our government and introduction of WMD surely wouldn't place me in harms way"

Basically what I'm saying is until she gets help realizing the flaws in her logic, and the origins of her beliefs she's going to struggle to change. She is not, however, inmalleable, and can