Actually, rereading Ed's post it seems like rather than trying to make Ubermenchan at this point, we should be making a series of highly specialized life forms.

With that in mind let's go for the following

1: a floating research brain thing that's super good at science even if it's crap at everything else
2: enhanced troops (built in enhancement upgrades, better reflexes, better senses) with less creativity and abstract intelligence, but a good ability to follow plans and perform the right action in a situation.

The second will serve as grunt troops, with normal humans as squad sergeants. Grunts don't need creativity.

Okay, so we can't really make anything better than humans. Any advantage will be countered by some kind of serious disadvantage, so there's not really much point in making things that aren't humans.

With more levels in Genetic Engineering, might we be able to make better creatures later?

5Copper!OcWN4aulz6 2010/04/19(Mon)15:59 No. 14383 ID: 1569b3
File 127171796571.jpg - (92.25KB , 640x480 , 211179.jpg )

>>324178
>increase immune system, regenerative abilities and try to get rid of crippling genetic defects.

that IS about what genetic engineering IV would give us...

the tank is the 4 units on the left of the highlighted unit on the pic.

the "alliance humans" would work as a genetical joker. we can make them and insert them into our society, and they would not have problem breeding with human, dryand, gester or the likes. its literally something to baseline everyone into if we can eventually gengineer other live people.

so we cant just spew supersoldier. im affraid to make a new type of breaker, so i suppose we should wait for GE IV.

...

so, can we (eventually) make:
-enhaced organs at the cost of no ribcage/weak ribcage. better heart, lungs able to work in low and adverse atmosphere, liver the size of a basketball to filter poisons, spleen to do what spleens do better, etc. the downside of it is they will always need armor but its ok since we got implants that does that. when not manning BRIC's anyway.

-better inteligece at the cost of colorblindness. may be too much and entirely unrelated, but considering everything, we can adapt our technology to suit this disvantage. if colorblindness wont fit, how about a extended back of the skull?

-eye acuity at the cost of having animu eyes. maybe. or maybe 4 eyes. who knows, 6 could be FUN. night vision can be provided by equiepment, having 6 eyes can also be really useful, a bit of trainning and you are aiming with 4 eyes, using the 2 spare for the HUD in your helmet.

-for the sake of 4~6 eyes, a "long face" like a sergal. a extended nose canal to also improve sense of smell, teeth adjusted to eat raw meat and vegetables alike, along with actual man-made food. this way they wont look hideously hilarious and their helmet will look partially aerodynamic/stylish. ears will have to remain human-like because we are not making ear casing in helmets, but we could work with some sort of elf like ear if it fits inside the helmet. they must also look "cool" for the population to accept them.

-enhaced dexterity/reflex. we dont need strenght, we use GUNS. i dunno what that would cost. muscle strenght? we already got implants on the line. if the implanted strenght totals the average between a soldier with implants and a common soldier, im sold.

-the fur was a means to control temperature and have a natural padding. if it comes to be we can even make it fire resistant with the right powder. so if we find a naturally warm or cold planet we could ignore part of its harshness, if someone uses heat weapons against us, we should resist a bit more. also added style.so furry =c and we kinda need the eye/face thing, its almost a space sergal

this was considering what we know of technology so far and also considering we WILL use this on civilians when we can.

we may get health problems due to the ribcage, but if they are generally accepted by the population we may eventually insert them into society, later on we can offer the gengineering for civilians to turn into one if they so want to. worse of this is we may need to make body armor a necessity to every gengineered superhuman, and if they are not accepted by the society they will either "die" out or be transformed to humans. we may get a civil war on this.

i name this race "judicium hunc" or hungry justice in latin

>>324182
i do think we can use tecnology to counter the disvantages; this way if they revolt we have some sort of leverage for them not to.

>>324183
once again i write too much. this is only 1 race. i expect the cost to be something like 500 RP asides the base need for minor implant

>>324175
You only have so much gray matter, and both sensory processing and cognitive thought takes up space. Increasing the size of the brain works, but remember that the brain consumes vast amounts of our energy.
Neural Implants is a research that will appear later in the tech tree.

>>324176
A biotank that breeds is an interesting idea, but would likely make the vehicle/organism very inefficient. Also, the armor probably won't be quite as good, it will become susceptible to fatigue and it would require at least a few mechanical parts (No, you cant shoot a tank shell with a biological gun). (100 RP for a non-breeding type)

>>324178
In the general populace, crippling genetic disorders are already screened out and the immune systems are boosted (though not until the point that autoimmune disorders become a problem). Regenerative abilities, however, is a viable engineering option (comes at a cost of a slight increased risk of problems while healing, but so long as they have access to a medical facility this shouldn't be a problem)
Controlling a megabeast with an implant will require Neural Implants tech, but an implant to simply reduce aggression on command should be feasible. (15 RP)

>>324181
1. Due to the fact we have no idea how a human without a body would fare psychologically (probably not well), we cannot replace ALL the researchers with these. They could, however, be used in conjunction with regular professionals to increase the rate RP is gained. (100 RP)
2: Enhanced troops is a reasonable idea. (100 RP)

>>324182
Yes, higher levels of GE would increase the things you can do with the gestation tanks.

>>324185
Could we get better designed eyes and stuff? Because human eyes aren't really that good a design right now.

>A biotank that breeds is an interesting idea, but would likely make the vehicle/organism very inefficient. Also, the armor probably won't be quite as good, it will become susceptible to fatigue and it would require at least a few mechanical parts (No, you cant shoot a tank shell with a biological gun). (100 RP for a non-breeding type)

i wanst expecting to shoot shells with it '-' a electrical gun of some sort is already good enought.

what would be its status when compared to the AI counterpart?

also i did not know we could make enhaced healing, can we get it on the tanks with the disvangate of horrible healing scars? think EVA, but without the meat bubble returning to normal.

if the tank ends up the same but added healing then it becomes useful.

i once again would like to remember we should not make CASTES, unless you like civil war. a enhaced soldier would suck for our society, plus we would not be able to turn him into a worker.

so i guess my judicium hunc got the shaft =c

>>324173

Regarding the morale/RP penalty for faster learning people, can you tell us roughly how fast they mature to learning/working age and how much faster they learn compared to normal humans?

Personally I'd go for the RP penalty, I think we have enough "standard" professionals to staff our labs, and "standard" workers to train to become "standard" professionals if need be.

Oh right, last thing, how quickly would we be able to expand our workforce using this method?

Test Pattern 2010/04/19(Mon)17:00 No. 14390 ID: 0fc814
File 127172165780.png - (105.12KB , 600x400 , sergarmor.png )

If we're going to make living tanks, we should design them for infantry-like advantages. Situational awareness, agility, reaction speed, able to go anywhere, etc.

>>324190
This looks legit. All in favour of Sergal tanks say Aye.

Aye.

>>324188
we should not design subhumans...

>>324190
oh thank god, i was already about to suggest ultralist or hydralisk. it seems a tank unit would fare better as a CQC superunit that a actual tank type.

also, im fairly confident we dont have the technology to make "that shoulder thing that goes up".

>>324191
Aye

the big thing that we need is a 'why', why do we need sergal tanks instead of regular tanks? what are the full set of advantages and weaknesses of it?

>>324199
apparently because the supersoldier cant be "made".

a organic tank can be useful if:
-can regenerate (not needed to be quick, but its nice to be able to)
-only needs food to "work" and thus can forage for it by itself
-can serve as a good guard/harzard/CQC unit.
-can breed with itself thus ensuring we wont use gestation tanks to make more units.

imagine a dog tank, they would be the army's pet. it would literally love the soldiers and the soldiers would love to have a pet dog the size of a truck that can chew megabeasts and shit lightining to protect them.

we could as well attempt to desing a tank-plague. it would literally maximize whatever we could get from tank units, a zerg queen would be deployed in a planet and it would spew eggs, the tanks would gather food for themselves and the queen.

pity that the only thing i got for them is a electric jolt. it would have poor accurancy and range since even the crappiest tank has very good optics, but as far as a unit that spends not even shells to attack, its quite good. if we give them claws and a killer bite, we got uselves a superCQC unit.

>>324193
They aren't subhumans. They're equally capable as workers or managers (which I presume is what professionals are in the industrial buildings). I presume it's just that they're less creative, hence the RP penalty, and more capable of rote learning to support the increased learning rate.

>>324203
well, we seem to be able to make some sort of micro upgrades or macro exchanges. i suppose if we keep them humans and "normal" it should work.

we can make with apparent no penalty:
-minor regeneration
-exchange of creativity, sensorial capatibilities and intelligence.
-??

so far the superhuman we can realistically design would have regeneration and no sense of smell/monochromatic sight for improved learning.

if we can stick improved dexterity and greater health it would be great. later on we check out what we can do to improve eye sight. i somehow liked the idea of a 6-eye-thin-sergal-like creature mainly designed to use full body armor/BRICs and still fit for research and the likes because its freaking smart.

if a increase in foood consumption is a drawnback for bigger brain, its also quite acceptable if it is in a 1:1 rate.

>>324205

Tbh, I doubt the food ratio will be anywhere near 1:1...it'll prob be more exponential or something...something has to limit these guys or else we would break the world by ruthlessly exploiting this exploit.

>>/quest/167104
>we can't say how magic works
>I don't see how the inhabitants of an entire planet could suddenly be given powers
well yeah.

mainly because there IS one entity behind it, so far you have to understand that its the same entity behind the breaker. the dryad leader received a message saying that a race would end their magic, they also support the breaker action on us because this entity said so.

EVERY BEING on the planet already has magic. even the megabeasts have the equivalent of strenghtened implants. its just the muscles, but we ought to consider that it IS possible. since the basic spells seem to be known to most due to the possibility that a strong magic user is born, even a peasant would be able to become the equivalent of a power infantry relatively easy.

>If such a super-magic-upgrade was really an option, why hasn't it happened already?
because psycholord does not know we are here. their society is so attached to the idea of noblehood=magic that its unlikely that even the peasants would like to see everyone of their race equally powerful.

>-nothing- has indicated that the mages of Grezt are capable of projecting their power that far
>Magic might be an active force all around, even in space
gee. i wonder if they poll their forces and use a seer spell and a really huge ignite, would they be able to hit us?

>war-boats
>They're not really a warlike people
and dont forget no actual experience in buildign those things, let alone using massive armies. however we do got to make a outpost in the anomaly and it will need protection.

well im expecting worse actualy, like teleport or sea megabeasts used against us. religious zeal does quite a trick. i wanted orbital bombing for those days mainly because if they start to build up, its easy to pick the supply lines, the warehouses and the shipyards/barracks, even under dense forest.

when we "invade" the anomaly i expect them to "challenge" us. im not sure how things will go from there.

>Maybe, since they share ideals (and likely diety).
they already think the breaker are doing their god's work. if the breaker of their god show up and asks, we will get a jihad, even if they dont have military training or magic.

>beliefs and history (including planetary data)
we did that.

they loathe us. i mentioned this, right? we are heathen, heretics and vermin for not having magic, using tecnology and being wanted by their god thru another race. i most surely do not know why or how they gaved us a piece of land here.

>then how can totus grant them the power? the anomaly would decide where the energy goes, not him.
who says that he does not control the anomaly?

surely he is not magical in nature. every race we have met had a huge disability and a gift from psycholord. even the prequel had indications of it.

having the anomaly as the source of magic means that the prophecy have how to be fulfilled, even if it means that psycholord will simply turn it off by himself.

im betting it will shut down once we approach with a ship, like they clam that their magic does when in proximity to our technology.

about the slavery, im not discarding racial slavery. they may be colonialists instead of simply capitalists.

for once id like to point out that our diplomat is alone and so are our ships. we dont know jack of their culture up to the point that we decided to jump in before waiting a month to get that tech done.

>>324185
I was thinking more on the lines of making them more aggressive at a time of our choice. Who knows, if the mages suddenly can't control the megabeasts then the population might start doubting. Like 4 or 5 of the whole planet might get some tiny tiny doubts about the whole deal.

Regeneration sounds quite nice. Doesn't really have to be anything major, just a little something to make it more likely that soldiers in the field will survive and civilians will get through accidents. Would it work in a similar way to stem cells?

Oh, and what would we need for nanobots? I can think of a couple of nice things we could use those for. Hopefully they won't turn into replicators.

This kind of nanobots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKcEwUcVBHs&feature=related

>>324216
this is too much effort, and i do belive they would end up killing the creature and finding the implant.

nanobots could be "cool", i belive the usual non-replicating nanobot would help keep the blood clear of poisons and possible virus. with some tweaking it may just help heal damage, or prevent bleedings from getting worse.

actual replicating nanobots could become a nnuisiance as a bio-weapon wannabe. simply load it with a specific species data and watch them melt!

>>324217
oh cool, nano factories.

well we cant have that much automatization yet unfortunadely. we can however attempt to make a nanopaste to build blocks of raw component.

ed, how about:
-recycling nanopaste: melts crap slowly to its basic components in a mildly organized manner. must be destroyable by eletric attack just to be safe. if a bacteria, make a viral plague to kill it or to be particularly vulnerable to the pasteurization process.
-medical buff nanobot: non-replicating nanobot designed to keep the blood clean of viral agents, poisons and the likes. can also stop bleeding wounds and helps mending bones.
-all-purpose foodplant: some sort of orc mushroom that can grow food suitable for humans in any terrain/planet.

>>324208

I do understand. Totus is (with 99.9% certainty) the diety of both the Dryads and the Breakers.

That does not mean the Dryads are suited for modern warfare spiritually, magically and technologically. They were not one of the four races chosen to eliminate humanity, after all. Furthermore, Totus seems to favor indirect manipulation as a modus operandi and has already chosen the Breakers as his champions for eliminating us. The Dryads are spectators that can be convinced we're not that bad at best and a very localized nuisance at worst.

>even the megabeasts have the equivalent of strengthened implants

The megabeasts might be naturally strong. I don't recall reading anything about them being magically strengthened.

So...Ed? Is all Grezt's fauna magical, or just the Dryads?

>since the basic spells seem to be known to most due to the possibility that a strong magic user is born

That's an assumption on your part. I'm not so sure every serf on the planet would be taught how to use magic, even if it is part of their race's makeup. Magical ability was described to be (usually) an inherited trait, a matter of ability, training and talent, and there were degrees of it. To quote Ed: "Their leaders and high level officials are usually highly gifted mystics, while those born without much magical capability are stuck in the peasantry and do menial labor for their more gifted masters."

>Gee, I wonder if they pool their forces and use a seer spell and a really huge ignite, would they be able to hit us?
>...like teleport or sea megabeasts used against us

There's no need to be snippy. Once again, I'll quote Ed: "Their powers are broad, ranging from destructive spells of varying power to healing to creating illusions. Their spellcasting is very visible and takes quite some time to complete, and fortunately our technology seems to have the weird power of preventing any spells being directly cast on it."

So, even IF they are capable of cooperating and doing something magically massive (not a sure thing in itself) we have a) the opportunity to spot and stop them as they try to cast the spell and b) direct immunity to some effects, making some of their magic less than useful against us.

>because psycholord does not know we are here

Uh. This is just my personal opinion, but I think the 'vision' that the entire planet received was a sign that Totus (or more likely, his Norns) knew where we'd be heading, even if his chosen minions didn't. That, or maybe they just sent a general "these are wicked guys" message to every race they control once it became apparent we'd escape Ithaca.

Even so, the Dryad high priests are supposed to be able to communicate with their diety, so either way he knows where we are. So, once again: Why hasn't the super-magic thing happened?

>Diplomacy: Beliefs and history response.

The last diplomacy comment was with regards to the bug-creatures. Ed updated while I was writing my post to you, so I threw in my two cents at the end. Pardon if that confused you.

>>324235
>That does not mean the Dryads are suited for modern warfare
i never said that they did. by using modern warfare we will prevent even further loss of units, plus we can actualy abuse the fact they dont know how to do logistic. the problem is that they are still zealous of whatever psycholord says.
> The Dryads are spectators that can be convinced
well, how? we cant buy them, we cant talk them out, we cant show friendliness because they already think low of us. maybe if we design something to end the desert they could come to be more open minded.

>"Their leaders and high level officials are usually highly gifted mystics, while those born without much magical capability are stuck in the peasantry and do menial labor for their more gifted masters."
even the peasants have magic. considering the only means of getting "promoted" is by growing in magical power, its unlikely they would not be interested in mid and high level magic.

>Why hasn't the super-magic thing happened?
because they havent spoke with him yet (busy man et all, he may have hundreds of planets o his care) and because of the second theory i mentioned. everyone developing high level magic would cause chaos as everyone would become the equivalent of a president, without mentioning weird things like psycholord losing his bone stash to trhow at the dryads, atheists not participating in the jihad to claim lands and stuff, etc.

about the rest, yeah, i may have over stated.

i was almost sure the megabeasts were mega because they also had this strange muscle thing. even still, for the whole dryads to have the equivalent of minor implant is quite a tremendous feat. i may need to consider that the anomaly can either create magical items in the dryad's body or that its indeed something more "broad", inherent to the universe.

>diplomacy
craptacular. i forgot to reply again.

i think we rushed with the seafood dudes. if we had their tech researched its possible we could be peforming trades already. it was also the 1st culture research we could do before peforming Nth contact.

>>324232
Medical buff nanobots are the ones I'm after. With those and better regenerative ability our people will hopefully live longer and be productive longer.

>>324250
shit. do we have a death rate by old age? if so we should include longevity in the superhuman list of feats to get.

so, if we get a biotank with short range bio weapon and the hability to breed in order to not need to be produced asides a couple dozen, we may be able to have a use for them.

the one on the left is a assault gun. it uses a lightining gun and moves about fast. it does not have a good armor but it also regenerates on itself and doesnt consume ammo.

the one on the right is a proper tank. it has lots of armor and the little cannon is decorative. its attack is also electrical, but it is unable to direct it, resulting in a area of effect strike. it can also regenerate but its too armored to be fast.

id propose the tank type if we cant make as a male/female counterpart.

they shouldnt be specifically powerful nor intelligent, but rather, obedient, very defensive and friendly in order to be trained properly. since they will breed, even a weakened bio tank will simply cost food wich we can forage, thus releasing some pressure from factories and gestation tanks. we may still need implants to properly control them, like radio and video feed.

5Copper!OcWN4aulz6 2010/04/20(Tue)14:07 No. 14460 ID: 1569b3
File 127179762924.png - (113.52KB , 605x216 , Dem biotanks.png )

hurr.

>>324259

So you want the personality/brain of a dog but with a biotank body?

>>324262
should be good. the owner says 'attack' and instead of biting them they shoot lightning.

What's the advantage to building such a thing, compared to a normal tank, which has multiple humans aboard who can think better than some dog brain?

Personally, I'm thinking we should shelve the whole genetic engineering thing. I was going to not bother with the structure for awhile, if that's cool.

>>324265
yeah, i guess so. maybe after we get genetic engineering 6 or so, let us get better positive results with lessened negatives. like we can make people that can learn faster by 1 point and not suffer a creativity penalty or can learn 2 points faster and a 1/2 point penalty.

1) a breeding biotank would not clog the factory.

2) we woould have a very simple dog-like creature that can outpeform CQC thanks to HUEG tazer and natural armor + fast regen. even if it is something like 75% or 50% the usual strenght of a tank, its a huge dog that will protect our soldiers in battle.

3)we can use upgrades on them, like bolting armor plates and covering parts of the spike with SC for better damage.

4)the breaker would be very envious of the biotanks

id suggest hellhound for its name. unless someone have a better name.

>>324267
First off, Ed made it clear that a tank that breeds is going to be nowhere near as good as one that doesn't which in turn is probably nowhere near as good as a metal one.

Second, he specified that we'd need to install guns with normal tech, and probably armor, too.

Third, biotanks that breed true are not free. You gotta feed those motherfuckers for years.

Fourth, a tank that's like a huge dog isn't as good as a tank manned by a driver, a gunner, and a TC. I know movies and stuff tell you otherwise, but crewing a tank is a very brainy exercise. It's like being a sniper team, except you shoot at things four kilometers away and are moving at fifty miles per hour in coordination with other such teams. Cover, concealment, elevation, positioning, ground quality, coordination with other units, and spotting are hugely important and must be performed with great speed.

Let's not turn this into a big debate, but it just strikes me as a big waste of time. Let's just leave the workers in the morale structures.

damm its a pokemon tank.

jolteon, manectric or electivire.

http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/Electric

the amount of complexity to it may make it have severe drawbacks until we get better genetic skill. let's for now let's just restart cats and dogs. now what breed should the first batch be? golden retriever?

oh! i though of something that would be nice and small. bloodhounds with even more kick-ass senses of smell and install some minor implants so they can keep up with the commandos. they could then track anything to anywhere.

i had actualy considered that. they would use electric muscles like eels, and would also forage for food in the forest.

unfortunately we are no longer on the forests, so that last part may be difficult.

>>324268
well with a higher engineering lvl it could have a specialized brain that is good at multitasking and geometry. allowing it to move and shoot as well as figuring out optimal trajectory.

but this could also be done with a high tech computer system with the same parameters. only thing i can think of that brains out pace computers is visual recognition. a human can recognize another human almost instantly while current tech computers need to churn on it for a few hours, if you get a good shot. a person can recognize people from a lot of angles while a computer is almost impossible unless it's a straight on shot.

>>324272
that would actualy require resources to it, as in, giving it implants with turrents asides trainning. a usual tank can aim up to 8km easy, and most of it is done out of LOS.

a biotank would need to be a short to medium range unit. think ultralisks instead of cybertank.

PISTOL SHRIMP!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc
biological shock-wave weapon.

or if we could increase the range, biological plasma weapon.

Hmm...I've been thinking about this...and I gotta agree that I don't think this is an efficient use of resources, particularly right now...Maybe if we get some super gengineering tech later, it would be effective...

How about a type of plant-based lifeform that explodes when startled? I guess we could call it a Stalker or something like that.

>>324280
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_Tree

>>324279
yeah im gonna wait. a CQC tank isnt that useful in a desert anyway. worse is we will get it with the possibility of designing supersoldiers.

so far what we can actualy make are terragrass, subhumans or humans with small buff but a sort of drawnback.

>>324275
im pretty sure we cant gengineer plasma weapons.

>>324280
how can we identify FoF? or is it just a generic biomine that eventually refills the minefield?

>>324281
wow, i live in brazil and i never heard of a explosive fruit. at least we have the base of it.

>im pretty sure we cant gengineer plasma weapons.
the pistol shrimp already shoots plasma, from the video:
>surprisingly the collapsing bubbles momentarily reach the temperature of the surface of the sun
so yes, bio plasma weapons already exist on a non-enhanced earth creature.

>>324283

Which requires specific environmental conditions, undersea.

>>324283
The temperature there is at a very tiny spot and lasts like... no time at all. The temperature spike doesn't really do much damage, it's the shockwave and physical impact.

>>324286
yes, but the fact that one exists at all should make getting a better one more probable.

>>324285
undersea has high pressure, that facilitates the plasma thing.

and why would we have a CQC plasma weapon? we need range.

What we really need to research is Techno-organic meshing.

That is, creatures with carbon bones, fiberoptic cables in their body, and a variety of biological tricks integrated; designed such that the line between biological and mechanical becomes entirely blurred.

This will no doubt require repeated tests, deaths, and a great deal of research: But it's still a good idea.

(Hint: Don't call them tyranids, necrons, or zerg.)

Edit: Almost forgot, consider creating creatures that perform mutualism with humans (moreso than bacteria and other things inside us already do), creating organic self-sustaining cancer stock (feed it raw components! Get over 9000 lbs of fresh crab!), and of course this paves the way for transhumanitism.

>>324298
what about bio-armor? Guyver style.

>>324299
whatever bioarmor we come up with will be weak compared to the actual mechanical type. a ceramic armor for example is not strong, its minmaxed to resist only a few shots.

a living being that would require implants to work would eventually sucks. if it doesnt breed we will need medical + gestation to make it work, and transhumanism is already being done with implants.

we need GE IV or else whatever advantage we get from designing new lifeforms WILL bring a equally disastrous disvantage.

>>324298
well i have been thinking and i just cant really get on with it.

the only thing we can actualy gengineer now is terragrass and possibly supercattle.

what about a cow that is fit for supergrowth or is healthy wnought to actualy provide perfect nutritions to hyoomans and the likes?

another thing we may be able to design is a "meat" tree or a omnivegetable/fruit, that would contain all nutrients needed for a human.

>>324309

The biorganism development would only be for the specific purpose of engineered devices, or people with implants. I said "pave the way" for transhumanitism, since the only "good" way to have that is modular brain-boxes that plug into bodies.

>>324311
An omniplant that feeds on waste, produces low-grade food. Might be a good idea. And boosting the quality would be a simple matter of feeding it corpses.

to whoever suggested going to the seafood planet before researching their tech, bonk you.

i can already see a war between seafood and lizards.

>>324323
.... how? they are on different planets and nether have a way of going faster then light. even if they were to go to war they would need hundreds of years to get there.

If the shrimp dudes had the ability and desire to send an army to the dryads, then they'd have surely had the ability and desire to send scouts to all nearby star systems, meaning they'd have found the dryads already.

if they steal/buy the tech from us and simply invade us, this will suck horribly.

im already considering a few commandos inside our vessels right now...

>>324340
even if they do get all our tech, they haven't been trained in it's use and operation, and building any ship that could take out one of ours would take them years as they don't have cross-atmospheric ships. they would need to build a fleet of dropships, then get an orbital factory up and running, then build a ship. we can just sit back and snipe any attempts they make to build the factory.

>>324188
The optimal configuration would be 18 months less spent in BOTH worker training and professional training, but half as much RP.

>>324190
65 RP. Only change is that their intelligence will be much lower.

>>324232
Nanobots cannot be made yet. Your universal foodplant would cost 40 RP


>>324255
No, I decided having a death rate will make calculating population changes for workers and professionals too difficult. Instead, i just plug the death rate into the population growth equation for nonworkers.

>>324259
We cannot create bioplasma, bioelectric or other such weapons right now. Also the breeding factor will increase your tank's RP cost to 125 and reduce its top speed and armor.

>>324270
A quick and stealthy bloodhound that could work with commando teams would cost 25 RP

>>324272
The scanners on our drones can detect friend from foe, but it takes up a good portion of its computing ability, and is really only effective because all our possible foes are nonhuman and the difference is MUCH easier to tell.

>>324355
sergal tank is a go?

how about >>324190 plus improved regeneration and a passive personality?

is agility a means of defense?

Since Shii is doing the build orders these days, I figured I'd just chime in on a more holistic level.

We can't really make anything super in gestation tanks, (the food plant seems like the only idea so far that's worth a damn) but we CAN make humans. We should seriously consider shutting down a lab and running, like, seven or eight people-factories, if not more. We'll be able to double our population inside four years. If we keep up with training, we'll then be able to expand the operation and continue doubling every three or four years. On the other hand, this will slow down our research for six to eight years, and will be a huge bookkeeping hassle.


>sergal tank is a go?
A stupid tank is a really bad plan. Especially given the original concept for a flexible, multipurpose, high-mobility combatant. A normal tank with a dumb crew is a bad idea, much less one that's supposed to climb up trees and attack from ambush in conjunction with other units...

>>324360
since we cant really make superCQC-tanks, its really a shame.

well i seriously would not want a smart gengineered bioweapon. we would need the equivalent of a attack dog to simply obey the commander, if it is too smart it may actualy rebel or simply desert us.

I don't see why you're so convinced that making intelligent creatures automatically makes them want to rebel. The Nautil are doing fine. I'm sure intelligent sergal tanks would do okay. Just give them a big couch and an x-box with the original controller for off-hours, feed them a steady stream of propaganda until they're shouting rhetoric in combat like Liberty Prime.

Not that it matters since we can't make them intelligent.

well, thats brainwash control politics along with some bread and circus.

not all of them will go for it and those that do will be puppets up to the point that it can backfire on us simply because we are acting like psycholord. remember, all of those tanks do not have breeding capatibility and are somewhat hideous. we are designing subhumans to begin with, and a race of slaves do not work in any moral, ethnical andpolitical fashion i can think of.

if they had common intelligence, that size and a gun, they will require to be accepted by the society, politically, socially and economically. now imagine civilian housing for them, all along with products and commoners looking at a car-sized neighbor with a weight attached to his back because he is too used to having a huge railgun turrent on his back (maybe even a set of small hands to help it adapt to society)

and then, there are surely some that will be willing to do work instead of serving the military. how the hell can we care for those?

a dummy biotank would at least not have the problem of rebellion since they can be tamed. i do admit that biotanks as a whole are useless now, unless we can engineer them to be "adhumans" as well. i think that the crew problem could be solved with improved reflexes or some sort of multitasking adaptation.

Anonymous 2010/04/22(Thu)16:07 No. 14564 ID: 164e41
File 127197763462.png - (182.64KB , 1312x1125 , Biotanks.png )

How to make a fully maneuverable biological tank without having to make it intelligent:

1. Take a person. A hand-picked soldier and a volunteer, preferably.
2. Train him and shove him into a specially designed powered armour suit, specifically one that allows complete interfacing freedom and the ability to sleep for large periods of time.
3. Put the guy to sleep and shove him into a gestation tank. Let science start forming tissue AROUND him.
4. Continue growing the beastie around the soldier. This is the part where you put in all kinds of cool shit into the biotank embryo.
5. The tank is now "born." Attach any external accessories, attachments and bling to it. By the end of the process, re-awaken the soldier inside - now he has full control of his very own (new) body.
6. Make the tank kill some shit in an awesome way.
7. Now it's too damaged to continue. No worries, though - the soldier inside is alive and well! He bursts out of his biotank and calls for support or keeps fighting. If he wants to, we can make him another unimaginably expensive toy to destroy, thereby restarting the cycle.

Advantages: fills all quest requirements.
Disadvantages: Holy fuck this is gonna cost a lot.

>>324364
wow... that is pretty awesome.

>>324368
its a incredible waste of resource.

i will save you time and ask ed for a 1 man tank that can be manned by a BRIC.

>>324364

He needs something to keep him exercised or he'll atrophy something terrible.

it would also be funny when we send a platoon of the things to attack something then the beast shells all get killed. when the enemy come to investigate all the guys burst out and keep fighting. have to make sure we get someone important caught in the maximum amount of surprise. maybe wait until they take the bodies back to the base for research then burst out when the leader comes to look at them.

>>324373
fine, lets make gundams or rollerblade mecha like in code geass.

-flying BRIC: a common bric, but can fly.oh god i cant stop lolling
-speedster BRIC: a rollerblade BRIC to move faster.
-BRICBRIC: a BRIC inside a BRIC. it sounds so logical after all this bullshit.
-modularBRIC: a lego BRIC that can have all this bullshit added to it.

>>324374
this sounds more like a specific tactic. how about:

-DIG tank: a dig-specialized unit that hides units underground. the unit can leave by itself thanks to how the hole is made. should use small mettalic structures to help the unit to trhust out of the hole.

>>324375
You're just upset your murry purries cannot possibly think for themselves.

Now then, tell me about your mother.

>>324375
i forgot:

-meleeBRIC: a BRIC with melee weapons. vibroblade/axes, beam swords, w/e.

>>324376
actualy i wanted superhumans. and i am FOR the biotanks to not be smart.

>>324375
isn't bricbric what they did in gurren lagann? put a robot inside an even bigger robot.

>>324380
sort of. GL was a mecha linked to another mecha. i cant remember of a mecha that was used inside another mecha, but it sounds like a upgraded BRIC to me.

if we get all of those together, we may have a "perfect" guerrila/mobility BRIC. if we make some gengineered humans for improved reflex, we got gundam.

5Copper!OcWN4aulz6 2010/04/22(Thu)20:22 No. 14594 ID: 2f0c5b
File 127199295237.png - (18.40KB , 605x633 , ModularBRIC.png )

pardon me, i am uncreative leech and dont have drawning skills at all.

this is a ModularBRIC. it should be about 25% bigger that a regular BRIC in order to hold the needed power source, should sustain space flight for 2 hours or so and can be changed to fit a variety of roles that small ships and tanks peform. basic weapons should include the regular BRIC weaponry plus whatever added there is in the backpack + core module + head module. it should also have a knife for CQC, upgradeable to a axe, if we can get vibroweapons, the merrierer.

we should also get a expendable shield to help them invade ships. a bigger railgun to aim at bigger ships may not be needed since we can use the missiles with micro nukes/breaker missiles equivalent.

animes and games that were ripped off are but not only: armored core, heavy gear, front mission, pat labor, gundam, gurren lagan, gunbuster, diebuster, code geass, macross and when we get breaker shield tech, evangelion

>>324360
With the faster learning humans, you might be able to restart research a tad faster after you hand the people factory work over to them.

But it is as you say, it's a very very long term policy that's a headache for bookkeeping, though we'll probably have to do it eventually, especially if we ever plan to engage the baddies militarily on anywhere near an even footing, barring the discovery of superweapons.

>>324411
pretty sure it's decided that we are gonna stick with baseline human until we get better engineering so we don't have to worry about horrible downsides to every advantage.

oh, and what about the bloodhound idea?
>A quick and stealthy bloodhound that could work with commando teams would cost 25 RP

i didn't see any drawbacks to that thing.

the smart human is akin to a huge brain in a jar. he also has problems not mentioned directly, ed said that the quickest exchange was sociopathy.

the bloodhound sounds so misplaced. im not sure what the commandos would do with it.

I guess if we get in a ground war... or simply use them to accompany planetary poaching.

>>324477
well i suppose if we get communications implants on them and oh god nautiloi could ride them, this sounds like a cool idea for the nautiloi pop

>>324478
haha, war mounts!

>>324364

Unfortunately, this idea really isn't too feasible. Having a guy control an organic being from the inside simply isn't going to work.

>>324394
>>324375

Now you're just being silly.

>>324414
Sorry, forgot to mention. The main drawbacks is their frailty and incapacity to function without someone to guide it. A COMMANDO will need to use it like equipment, temporarily "deactivating" it and carrying around when it's not needed.

>getting too much tech from an outside source at one time would cause massive social, political, and economic upheavals.
What? Naw. That's just some nonsense argument star trek made up. There's no basis for it.
We have this argument every time we encounter new aliens.

Moreover, they appear to have modern tech. Splinter tech is pretty much just modern but with better engines and metals and agrav. Other than gestation tanks and implants, it's all pretty incremental... And gestation tanks and implants are things that the humans only invented within the past two years anyway!

>>324583
IF all the tech is carefully spread evenly then it's fine. but if one group get's something that makes them outclass any other group then that group will start kicking everyone's ass then everyone gangs up on them, and then you have a full blown world war going on.

let's use our current earth as a model:
pick a country, any country. that country is given the blueprints to laser guns and space armor. do you think they will share? hell no, they will keep it to themselves and conquer the world.

IF we're choosing to sell guns instead of medicine or ipods or something, and IF they have the tech base to build them (in which case, why aren't they doing it already?) and IF they aren't a unified government (aren't we talking with the figurehead of the entire planet?) then, yes, you would want to sell to all sides, or else to the side we would want to win.

Which is just common sense.

Also, no, if one nation on modern earth got space rifles and stuff, they wouldn't use them to conquer the world, because that can't counter a nuclear threat on its own, along with half a dozen other reasons I could list if you don't believe me. They'd also have sharply limited numbers of these weapons unless, again, they already have the technology to build them themselves.

...not that this matters, unless they have technology we don't have. The only stuff we really need right now is technology, starships, and citizens, which a low tech planet of nonhumans can't really offer.

we are talking to a CEO, they are highly capitalist.

other then that i see your point.

>>324589
well this is maybe true. remember that their nations are corps and that a corp can still become insta-popular because they are dealing with us. if you play EvE, this means war, better trades, ass kissers, leechers, spies and a huge increase in the recruitment drive. its logistic hell and in a way or another, even if you simply got a T2 BPO for a dammed low use module, its worth a fucking lot and its real easy to get it stolen.

> because that can't counter a nuclear threat on its own
they may not have nukes to fear nuclear retribution. and even still, what country would nuke a country that was favored by a alien race that because of that may never return, if not simply mark them as enemies?

nukes arent wonder "i win" button. the use of one is incredibly political and strategical. a nuclear war aims not to defeat the enemy, but to wipe its civilians. no "humanitarian" government would allow that.

>The only stuff we really need right now is technology, starships, and citizens
dont we need labor? we can make them work for us. the only choke point is how much we can transport/pay them.

>nukes arent wonder "i win" button.
If you're in a total war, and you can produce them, and the enemy can't, it pretty much is.

Also, I'm pretty sure we don't actually have laser rifles.

no, we have railguns and unobtanium.

in a total war? no corp or economy would sustain that. the seafood planet may even posess nuke tech, but the use of nuke bombs is very restricted due to the fact that whatever you could obtain would become a shadow in stone.

The old "Oh no! But if we use bombs we'll destroy their factories!" argument has never stopped anyone. People have been burning cities to the ground for almost as long as there have been cities.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing, at this point.

>>324596
im not saying they would not destroy their production capatibility, in ct, that is usually the idea behind bombing, im saying they would destroy their reliability as a country.

corp 1 is dealing with us. corp 2 decides to do some "hostile takeover" and opens with a-bombs.

would we deal with corp 2? do you think corp 3 will fell "alright" with this?

in the long run no economy can sustain this terror trade tactic.

Since this thread is a getting a bit too large, I'd like further discussion to occur in this thread:

http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/res/324607.html#324607