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File 130681433719.jpg - (66.32KB , 619x464 , Blackbeard In the Neighborhood.jpg )
37315 No. 37315 ID: a76809

Blackbeard:
Mercenary.
18 Million dollar bounty on his head.

Armaments:
Longarm:
Battle Rifle
Queen Ann's Revenge: A custom .95 JDE bullpup rifle with inertia operation recoil compensation, semi-automatic fire and a ten-round, detachable magazine. It weighs ninety pounds, and is one meter long.
Melee weapons
Cutlass:
Once it has tasted someone's blood, it can orient on them and continue to guide its bearer towards the unslain foe, until such time someone else bleeds on its edge.
Gladius:
Any stab wound made with this blade will continue to bleed at full force, even as blood pressure drops beneath a point where such output would continue. Until a wound is forcibly sealed, it will continue to bleed until the target runs out of blood.
Bastard Sword:
Able to rust and corrode metal armor of any form at a touch, and will cause leather armor to rot, cloth arm to dry and snap. It decays and ages only that which is not currently alive-to normal flesh, it is no more than a sharp blade.
Katana:
Blade is able to stretch up to thrice its initial length of three feet if swung with sufficient force-while it elongates as if elastic, the material is still rigid to any attempts at manipulation, and cuts as well as it normally would. Attempts to use it on armored targets can damage the blade, magic or no. Against the unarmored, its ability to slice flesh is incredible.
Rapier:
Able to twist and coil when thrust, it acts like a drill, the perfect armor piercer-largely useless against large targets due to its limited wounding ability, ideal against small, heavily armored foes.

Additional Equipment:
20 separate Summer Court crafted charms against harm and death, ten of which are oriented around projectile attacks. Not all of his charms are expendable.

So, this guy here is moving to Istanbul soon, having heard the market is GREAT for Guns for hire, what with all the intergang war right now, between the germans, the chinese, the italians.... Guy figures there's a LOT of money to make. So he's coming to make a name for himself-

He's coming to take Armas' job.


And with that: Guns for Hire discussion. Things you like. Things you don't like. Ideas, plans that are not immediately relevant to the plot? Put them here.
Expand all images
>>
No. 37316 ID: a76809

WARNING
WARNING

HISTORICAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REAL LIFE TIMELINE AND GFH TIMELINE

THE SS WERE ABLE TO CAPTURE A KALININ K 7 FROM THE RUSSIANS.

SKORZENY WAS AWARE WHERE IT WAS WHEN HE FLED.

And So I present to you, Skorzeny's baby, the results of sixty years of funding and research put into building a flying fortress.

I give you the Donnergrollen

-The prop engines have been replaced with independently adjustable, freely directed turbojets, allowing for faster flight, higher maneuverability, the ability to hover, directly ascend and descend.
-The old armor plated fuselage has been replaced with modern layered alloys and composites with reduced weight and increased defensive properties.
-A total of nine THEL (Nautilus Laser) apertures are mounted as anti-missile and close to mid-range anti-air defense systems. One facing downward, one facing outward on each crew compartment, one facing forward and up, one facing backward and up on each wing, and one facing directly backwards on the middle of the wing.
-The new turbojets, the nine total Nautilus lasers and the comprehensive communications and sensor equipment are powered by a reactor created from stolen blueprints of the reactor on the US NR-1 nuclear submarine and Project Pluto, making the Donnergrollen the only nuclear-powered aircraft in the world.
-Each crew pod is equipped with an fully adjustable Gau-8 turret with 63,000 rounds per gun pod. Due to the engine configuration, this means the Donnergrollen can perform two independent strafing runs, or provide saturated fire on two separate locations, depending on whether it is hovering or not.
-Each of the two crew pods has a set of twenty missile launchers carrying W54 nuclear warheads married to modern missile chassis complete with computer assisted lock-on and seeking technology.
-Each wing is outfitted with a radar target designator. Both pool their data to provide assisted targeting to all Donnergrollen weapon systems for target identification and positioning purposes.
-A bevy of target jamming and communications interception software and equipment on board means that all enemy communication and lock-on attempts will be combated within a two mile zone of the Donnergrollen.
-A total of two UGM-133 Trigent II missiles rebuilt with data from Project Pluto. Thanks to Nuclear ramjet propulsion, can penetrate far deeper into enemy airspace without risk of interception.

A little Nazi Flying Doom Fortress for you.
>>
No. 37317 ID: 234c26

>Ideas
So the goblins have these brownies that are basically invisible messenger and watcher minions, right? I can't help but wonder how hard it would be for Armas to get a handful of brownies contracted out to him as loyal minions for the duration of his life. Could be ridiculously handy. Given that the goblins have a wildly stilted view of what is valuable and what is a reasonable period of time compared to humans, it might turn out to be surprisingly affordable or completely impossible.

>Things you don't like
This quest really needs an obsessively updated wiki and it doesn't have one. I will have to get on that one of these days, if only because it's so damned easy to lose track of things. If nothing else we should use it as Armas' appointments calendar and list of outstanding debts and obligations.
>>
No. 37329 ID: 81f32a
File 130687281920.jpg - (314.08KB , 1638x1072 , BLOCKBERD.jpg )
37329

>>
No. 37331 ID: f0e3ae

awesome! a dedicated GFH dis thread.

@Goblins training: so far you are just teaching them how to use the guns you own. What about flashbangs, grenades, teargas, teasers? How about buying some common guns types you don't currently own to teach. For example, shotgun and low caliber small arms (eg, a typical .22 pistols).
Also teach how to set land mines, or satchel charges. and improvised explosives.

How about mentioning defensive techniques used in war. How to avoid getting shot, urban warfare techniques, recognizing a flash-bang and how to protect yourself when you see one thrown at you, etc.

Now, if training with them in the above starts to dry up you can bring up new things, such as:
Learning about general capabilities of modern war machines. Tanks, submarines, smart bombs, airplanes, Helicopters, Helicopter mounted chain-guns, nukes, etc. Get some instructional videos and explain their general properties. Ask sometimes merchant if the items in the last paragraph, being items you can't teach the use of only share general information about, should they be part of the instruction or should they be traded to SM separately. I imagine the latter since you can't teach them that, he just needs to know what to find other mortal teachers for... OR you could find teachers for those specifically. Do you have any relatives or close friends in the army who pilot a helicopter or drive a tank? Have the deal stipulate that they are responsible for acquiring said war machine and its supplies.

gate discussion:
Fang:
>"You are familiar with the concept of spontaneous combustion?"
>"The vast majority of cases are due to the Other side. As it and beings within it try to reach the mortal plane, they reach out to anything that can act as anchor. While some beings from the Other side can directly possess individuals without immediate issue, the Other side itself cannot. So when is it not an individual, but... a multidimensional living world, no mortal can take it. They are destroyed as a Gate to the Other side is opened in their flesh."

Ogrimar / summer aspect:
>Call those gates the Nevernever-opening.

Goblin:
>You have not become a living Conduit, nor have you died.

Alright, so first of, it seems that such gates are NOT actually always lethal as fang has said, since the goblins have said that another possibility is to become a "living conduit".
>>
No. 37332 ID: f0e3ae

>>347117
I like this!
>>
No. 37337 ID: 692cff

>>347131
A living conduit is a wizard, which is something we can never be. Got to have absolutely no magic whatsoever when hit by magic lightning for that.
>>
No. 37342 ID: f0e3ae

>>347137
where did that info come from?
And what if you somehow predict the next time it is going to happen and somehow expel all magic from your body just before it happens?
>>
No. 37344 ID: 692cff

>>347142
Got it from IRC, and not possible One, we don't know if even the potential for bloodline powers counts as having magic, and two because the Cannibal magic is ingrained in our Soul now, so no getting rid of it. The palindrome bonus only builds up an immunity to all(good and bad) magic energy because we get sort of used to channeling shit-ton of it. All in all, it's a bad thing, but if it happens one more we'll get a bonus related to rule of three.
>>
No. 37347 ID: 234c26

>>347117
>I will have to get on that one of these days
So some people have started working on this, and I was looking at implementing something nifty- trying to put together a template that we can use for every character which is basically a collapsible box that has their original image, name, description, affiliations, a link to the initial post in which they appeared, a list of notable assets/weapons, a summary of their actions in-quest, and possibly any other facts that we know about them (such as IRC-stated information).

And I have to ask... does the tgchan wiki not support collapsible boxes? Because without the collapsing putting that much information on the page would be utterly ridiculous. (It is possible that I just don't know what the hell I'm doing, of course, and the wiki does support it but I'm going about it all wrong.)
>>
No. 37459 ID: c6ce12

Here are some chat longs that should probably be shared. One is for a trait we could potentially earn if we eat the right things. The next describes what our latest trait does. The one after that deals with if it can break rule of three deals made before it was acquired. And the last is a potential way we could use the knowledge of the third portion of the chat logs and the trait effectively.

20:04GuileI want to meet someone of german, italian and japanese descent. Rule of Three AND All Axis Power bloodline.
20:05TheBeardiestBobYou have just describe the body Hitler possesses
20:05GrailOh well, we're not going to fight Hitler any time soon.
20:06TheBeardiestBobyeah-Skorzeny's the one that is an actual threat and not some 'WEHWEHWEHI'MNOTFUHRERANYMOREBAWWWW' bitch
20:06GrailI bet the flesh of Hitler is pretty damn tasty though
20:07GrailOh man Bob, could we get a trait like the New Vegas perk Meat of Champions?
20:07GrailIf we manage to eat Hitler and several other world leaders?
20:08TheBeardiestBobIf you eat from: An angel, a devil, some sort of divine immortal being of neutral origin, a king and a queen... then yes
20:08TheBeardiestBobyou would get an AWESOME Wendigo-perk
20:09TheBeardiestBobCan you say 'Favored of Bakbakwalanooksiwae?"
20:09TheBeardiestBob...Actually, I don't know if you CAN say that
20:10GrailWhaitiri count for the divine immortal being?
20:10GrailOr does she not count as neutral?
20:10TheBeardiestBobyes, yes she does count as neutralo
20:10TheBeardiestBoband the demon blood would not work, as that is imp blood
20:10TheBeardiestBobwhich is like dirt weed, but blood

15:14TheBeardiestBobNew trait lets you go 'SORRY SON' to Deals made with Rule of Three-at any point you can forcibly break free of the deal, negating its properties if an involved party.
15:14TheBeardiestBobI would not recommend advertising such an ability
15:14TheBeardiestBobsince just about NO ONE can do it, what with needing to be struck by magic lightning three times and all
15:15ManOfTroySO, bob, when we hit Six, or Nine, will we start being this anti-magic black hole?
15:16TheBeardiestBobnext levels are six, nine and thirteen, yes
15:16TheBeardiestBobI would not recommend reaching thirteen


19:17GrailHm wonder if our new power of three trait applies to rule of three agreements we have already made, like the one with Cornelius
19:18TheBeardiestBobit does-but the magically savvy can feel such a deal breaking-and he would NOT be happy
19:19GrailSo he would know if the witch undid it as well?
19:20TheBeardiestBobyup
19:20TheBeardiestBobyou can't pick both sides
19:20TheBeardiestBobyou are meeting the addams and munster family types
19:20Gunpowder_SymphonyI expect we'd lose that bargain credibility trait too if we cheesed out of the deal, huh?
19:20Guileso, only resort to the lycanthropes if it turns out we cant kill doony
19:21Dkay_rule of the 3 is not that great of a trait, I think, if we use it too much we might lose our Word like Gold trait
19:21Guileonce might be enough, if Zosimus spreads it around
19:21GrailI honestly like the Werewolves better
19:21Guilestill a good option to have, tho
19:21GrailBut the way we have to join them kind of sucks
19:22TheBeardiestBobalso, consider that means Zosimus' family is the one with the nightmarish Flesh Golem Adam-style frankenstein

19:24GrailI don't suppose Zosy could tell who broke it right?
19:25GrailIt would be kind of boss to go up to her, break it our self, and say thanks for the offer, but we an handle ourselves.
19:25GrailBut of course then she knows we can break said deals
19:26GrailAnd that's blatantly advertising a skill we should not advertise
19:27TheBeardiestBobGrail if you did that you would indeed impress the hell out of her if you rolled with your Traits correctly there

>>347147
I don't think the wiki supports collapsible boxes, but we don't need them yet. If it grows too large we can split it into multiple pages like we did for the GQ wiki. And by the way any help the wiki would be welcome, right now all I have is the character list section that I'm slowly filling up. If anyone wants to write some character descriptions or dig up their weapon info and post it on the wiki it would be very appreciated.
>>
No. 37475 ID: f0e3ae

mmm, so... vampires or werewolves? Normally I would prefer werewolves, unless its a case of "our vampires are different"... vampires have more crippling weaknesses, and are undead, must feed on humans, and have bouts of uncontrollable hunger where they go berserk. Being undead also means no reproducing, you fail at the game of life. Werewolves can have families... Of course, then there is the issue with werewolves going beserk on full moon and hunting humans... and in some settings vampires can have families, having pureblood vampires and even werewolf-vampire halfbreeds... I think we need to get some survival lessons from goblins focusing on the nature of supernatural creatures to get answers to such questions.

Anyways, the problem with accepting the werewolves offer is that they are asking us to break a deal AND to not kill doonie... armas ia man of his word.

Perhaps we could contact the weres and let them know of that fact? We deal with the fae and cannot afford to damage our reputation in such a manner?
Mitigate the damage of said refusal. (which is significantly less then the damage to our rep with the vamps if we help the weres "humiliate" him).

We could aim at cordial working relationships with both the vamps and weres where we only attack 3rd parties at their behalf, not each other...
Although I can see great rewards to siding with one or the other.
>>
No. 37477 ID: a76809
File 130721417687.jpg - (116.77KB , 830x830 , AORB Soldiers equipment.jpg )
37477

In the Guns For Hire Setting, enough people are in the know that officials in world governments are in the know. Not all of them-and not even a great many-but enough. And so there are indeed official government agencies dealing with the supernatural-but most are political, or investigative, focused on finesse. For dealing with the supernatural when it gets out of hand, there is indeed a higher power. On the American continent, Canada, the United States, Mexico and a number of south American countries channel defense funds to-
TRANS-AMERICAN ANTI-OCCULT-RESPONSE BATTALION [A.O.R.B.] :
GROUND FORCES ARMAMENTS:
-A one-ton powered walker (electric, battery powered, externally charged) with a thirty minute operation time, with a left-side mounted composite, detachable shield with a two hundred degree turn radius on the torso mounted track.
-Shields are able to ablate a 100mm HESH round, and can be replaced by a ready crew in thirty seconds.
-The armors are equipped with an automatic 20mm rifle, attached to a swivel mount on the right side of the torso track, with a ninety degree track range and a sixty degree rifle-mount rang of orbital motion.
-The rifle is loaded with one of four sixty-round drum magazines, two in armor piercing incendiary, two in discarding sabot armor piercing, contained in an automated reloading frame controlled by a joystick on the left side. The Ammunition frame is kept close to the body, and is automated to track to behind the shield's protection to avoid ammunition rupture.
-The torso is equipped with formidable jamming and decryption capabilities within several hundred meters, and can network with other nearby powered walkers to boost processing ability. This central mount also houses a mid-ranged thermal vision equipped camera, that feeds to a view the pilot can observe and direct.
-On each shoulder of the torso mount, a three-barreled 90mm MATADOR cluster is mounted, connected to both the control-helmet Line Of Sight laser sighting system and the rifle-mounted rangefinder, for mid and long-range employment, respectively. The clusters are fully detachable, and automatically detach once all three tubes have been emptied. A new cluster can be mounted in ten seconds with a ready lift to place the new clusters.
-The walker's legs have modular mounts for tracks or conventional wheels, to allow swift movement on flatter terrains while still retaining bipedal mobility. In urban settings, a walker given a standard load can achieve speeds of forty miles per hour and turn far more sharply than a tank.
>>
No. 37479 ID: 28e94e

>>347277
Almost no armor except for the shield, handles like total shit on soft ground, is unstable to the point that a simple pothole or tripwire can completely wreck it, and it has a very short operational range (even an attack helicopter can go a good 2-3 hours without refueling). It's also extremely expensive to maintain because you have to not only get unique and high-performance parts but also bribe the contractors into keeping their mouths shut. All in all, they're better off just sending in a tank - faster on an open road, can steer in place faster, can see and shoot backwards, has like a bajillion times more firepower, is cheaper to build and maintain, has a range of several hundred miles, can shrug off almost every infantry weapon in existence, is armed with an artillery gun, if all else fails you can just run the enemy down, and it's a hell of a lot less conspicuous because it actually exists in the real world. Oh, and the only way to "trip" a tank is to cause the whole thing to fall into a specially made trench.

Just some problems I noticed.
>>
No. 37480 ID: 35e1a0

we actually do have a exo-skeletal armor in real life, it is just a support thing though as it has no armor, but would let a person replace an entire artillery crew.
>>
No. 37481 ID: a76809

>>347279
-Made for urban settings wherein soft ground should not be an issue-and the picture is misleading, the AORB walkers do not have such tiny platform feet.
-Can be airlifted to scenes with any of a bevy of helicopters, or even delivered inside conventional covered trucks, so operation time can start as far from the target as desired.
-The suit itself does not have to account for any battery or fuel weight beyond a few pounds, having crystals crafted by government contracted electrical Practitioners to act as a chargeable 'well' that can be externally filled.
-With the primary operations area being urban areas where being quite is key, getting in a tank is unfeasible-but delivery trucks and work crews, complete with some Practitioners to create a zone of silence can run multi-unit operations and barring mid-day in down-town be likely to have sufficiently arranged resources to keep the event disguised.
-They have a few B-movies they periodically rewrite that the can say they are filming on accidental exposure, given that people 'know' powered walkers and the like are not in use. They specifically wanted something they could say is not real-and in their respective countries have been pushing AGAINST mechanized infantry so their equipment does not become more 'believable'.
-Between supernatural deals for preferential/free resources/labor and the contacts of all those involved, the end cost for making one walker, minus shields, gun and MATADOR clusters, is about $25,000. Because a considerable portion of the more unique mechanical structure and components are built on the Other side (plenty people recognize the use of Deals) and so can in theory be produced in infinite amount, even in an instant. So all AORB has to do to build these is have the armor coverings for the legs and torso forged, the shield made, gun and ammo hopper.
-Falling over/being tripped is still a concern, yes, and a huge weakness for these things.
>>
No. 37482 ID: 1b1739

>>347281
So that makes it an armored suit, heavy infantry, and with low cost...seems effective, but I can't help but think there's a major flaw in the way they designed the armored parts...
>>
No. 37484 ID: 7b542c

You know what we need to get?

The Belmont whip. Fucking roman vampire won't stand a chance.
>>
No. 37486 ID: 234c26

>>347284
As we don't have the Belmont bloodline, it's unlikely that we could take full advantage of its power.

>>347259
Did some wiki stuff. Pictures for everything, where they were available. Improvement of the character template is on the to-do list; for now, as long as we input everything using it then the data should be smoothly shifted around to fit whatever we come up with as the desired format later. Something more structured than the relatively freeform descriptions used in Golem Quest is desired here; we can use the appropriate talk pages for hashing out what exactly it should contain.
>>
No. 37490 ID: e41ad5

I'ma just post this here because it's a personal pet peeve of mine.

Information relevant to the story and necessary to suggest actions should not be relayed in IRC. That venue should only be used for things that will never be relevant in the quest, such as missed plot lines that will not effect anything, or fluff things what would never come up ever.

Good example: Revealing in IRC that we could have killed another player character early in the quest had we taken a different action or set of actions.

Bad example: Revealing in IRC that a certain character stole all out money the other night.

The main issue here is that most people who read the quest just read the quest, and those 'catching up' will have 0 frame of reference for some actions taken with regards to said information.

In short, stay out of revealing shit in the IRC instead of in the quest itself. If you really have to, POST LOGS YOURSELF so that people don't stumble around wondering what the fuck everyone is talking about - don't wait for another player to take action.
>>
No. 37492 ID: f0e3ae

>>347280
actually, artillery crews are being replaced by fully 100% automated specialized machinery in next gen artillery.
But yes, current power armor is designed solely for heavy lifting.
>>
No. 37535 ID: ae0719
File 130740050573.jpg - (253.89KB , 1568x2184 , blackbeard11.jpg )
37535

Just a thing, to hold it until Blackbeard shows up.
>>
No. 37536 ID: c6ce12

(This is a list of each of the parties we know of that would be interested in making deals for our palindrome based lightening strikes and what each would offer for it. This is pretty much direct quotes from the chat conversation that they were brought up in. My personal favorite is the what the werewolf matron would offer, totally not because I helped with it's design.)

What the Matron could do is offer to bind a rage spirit from the Nevernever to us. She could do a few different things, depending on the scale of the rage spirit we sought. For a small one, sure she could bind it in us, and after an initial dominance struggle it would obey us whenever activated-but wouldn't have much kick. Armas' soul as is can not handle anything larger, it'd be like a sardine taking on a carp, spiritually speaking. He would need to be an Einherjar or in some other way a being linked to rage to take that WITHOUT a considerably bigger soul. She could bind a mid-sized one to a ring, bracelet or amulet, and we could trigger with a spoken word-or for upper tier ones, bleed on the amulet. Then there would be the hypothetical apex of what she can make, which would be an amulet that has to be in contact with our flesh that, if we eat one of these specially prepared medicine balls, and while doing so bite our cheek to imbibe our own blood, we could have a Greater Aspect of Rage bound in us, well not in us but bound in an amulet and only unsealable through a very specific means (the medicine, for a temporary thing)-the downside would be the thing is so powerful we have to fight it to regain control of our body when we want it to 'stop'. If we play on the Maori side and the blood lust induced cannibalism aspect we could use that to make eating magically charged food auto-recover us from the Apex version if on hand, so that we: pop magic pill, RAGE EVERYWHERE, eat jerky, revert, start healing whatever damage we did RAGING. If we go with the 'greater rage fragment' option, and as you awaken the winter side, potential Einherjar fun and all that, it will make the amount of power you can draw out without exploding greater. Think of a Greater Rage Fragment as a tiny Nevernever that will open a smaller, less ludicrous, burnout-inducing gate in you. a mid sized fragment is still something that can be defined as an entity-a greater fragment is more a space or zone of the nevernever.

Ask for the Rage fragment to be bound in a belt buckle, keep the medicine balls in belt buckle. This would be the basis for a really great magic utility belt. Get pouches for storing things like jerky, loops for Mammon's Device rounds and flash bangs, hooks for rope and duct tape, and . Great thing is you can also get a holster for the Device to hang at your hip, then you have THREE GUNS at hip level to go for. And With some quick finger work to get a medicine balls and being smart we could keep it pretty quiet.


Then there's the vampires, who would trade you a supply of /mixed/ millenia old vampire blood so we could ghoul ourself on command for half a day without giving us a 'master'. It gives you regeneration, complete immunity to shock, the ability to absorb foreign blood to fuel us while so empowered-and constantly 'burns' the imbibed blood, with healing, or heavy uses of strength burning it faster. Taking on foreign blood can slow this process, but not stop or reverse it.


There's also the goblins, who will basically auto-complete our moving silently and sneaking training in the Nevernever to Sometimes Merchant's level. Instant ninja.


Dorjpalam? He'll give us a Wizard contract, and let us negotiate a power we could get for the strikes. Something like 'every time lightning would have struck me I can now do X three times at will', for MONSTER powerful, or something we just trade for and that's it, which would be mid-tier
>>
No. 37552 ID: f0e3ae

>>347336
alright, this saves us from the semilong process of actually going to them one by one and asking...
Of course, that also means we skipped the options to negotiate.

I don't like transient one use things like mixed blood much... if we went that way we could ask for the pure blood of the oldest living vampire... heck, get turned by the oldest most powerful werewolf then drain your own blood and drink said vampire blood, instant werewolf-vampire half made from best and oldest most powerful stock... but that was just a wild idea, lets not do that since curses are lame, and so is having a master or losing the ability to have children (we got a dynasty to start here).

I very VERY much like the instant /MAGIC/ ninja deal with the goblins. And its just for one strike... we could just barter for unlocking better knowledge and have each strike be worth lots of "hours" for us to redeem. This seems like the best option. Also we could ask them to include a brownie of our very own :P.

The whole "be introduced to a wizard for a strike" is weak, we know of a powerful wizard fighting doonies boss and we know has contacts with mafia, possibly triads, and possibly the goblins could introduce us (for much less then a strike), we should get that done.

I would like to point out that something occurred to me... every strike that happens strips us of our magic some more. Becoming a living conduit will stop such strikes AND make armas a true full blown mage... Becoming a living conduit requires you have no magic... every strike strips us of magic... becoming a living conduit requires no magic... See where I am going here?

With the right support group... trade a FEW strikes to the summer court, a few to the winter court, a few the most powerful human wizard on earth... what for? for the three of them working together to temporarily strip you of magic and ensure you become a living conduit on the next strike (after they were all paid) and then to be trained to goblin ninja levels, and be trained as a proper wizard by the most powerful wizard on earth. Such training might cost armas a little extra, such as serving said wizard for a certain number of years... or if that wizard IS the one here fighting doonie's lake boss (whatever its name was) then perhaps our assistance until said beast is vanquished. Either is fine.
>>
No. 37554 ID: a76809

>>347352
The deal isn't for one strike-its for all future strikes, with each side that offers a consumable restocking you with said consumable each time it does strike, in addition to vending said expendable triggers to you. Just don't expect individual purchases to be cheap.

Depending on the amount of power derived from a given expendable for this, a resupply can contain between five and fifteen 'uses' worth of the expendable material.

You also misconstrued the Wizarding offer. Dorjpalam IS the Wizard you mentioned-a Wizarding Contract is basically a 'create your own practitioner skillset' Trait, such as being a fire mage, or a stone mage or what have you. It wouldn't actually make you a practitioner, as you'd be drawing power from a fragment of the Wizard, but effectively its the same thing.

And since the deal is for all future strikes, that does mean if you choose to learn as much as a human can of the goblin arts pertaining to stealth, that will be all you get for the magic strikes-no resupplies or extra lessons, all upfront payment.

Lastly-if you think you're on to something there, feel free to try it out. No guarantees that it will work remotely how you think it will.
>>
No. 37555 ID: 856690

As far as I can make out the only things stopping us from keeping the Nevernever striking us is that it'll explode us via world passsing through us, also it strips us of magic.

Somewhere here is a potential to become a null being/magic eater.(Someway other than anti-magic buff from being struck multiple times) The problem is control, if we could force the nevernever to strike around us rather than through us that would help greatly...

After that, learn how to warp the world!!!
>>
No. 37562 ID: f0e3ae

Alright, thanks for clarifying that the prices are for all strikes... still we could negotiate things for less than.
I would try to feel out about making deals to help us becoming a true wizard.

Also, new idea... find a magical animal symbiont or sentient object (amulet, weapon, etc) that can eat them. As you feed it, it grows in power and can be bequeathed to your descendants.

My biggest problem with the straight up trades offered is that:
1. Every strike makes us lose magic / powers.
2. 13 is gonna be really bad.

We need to somehow permanently resolve it. A long term agreement where power is given and split amongst the courts in exchange to their cooperation in helping armas become a true wizard is a perment solution to an ever escalating problem. If armas has to do MORE work for them in exchange for said assistance then so be it, he offers more work.

Oh, you can also trade knowledge... has someone siphoned off power in such a way before? the first was taken off by the representatives of winter and summer. But second strike you siphoned into a building to turn it into something from past. Third into the stairway to modify it. Third gave you the power to nullify magically enforced deals... Are the courts / wizard curious about what happened so far? are they curious about what wondrous effects further strikes will have?

And imagine if you develop such a process via your studies. Where in the future those in your position could be offered a deal based on the knowledge you will acquire via this experiment.
>>
No. 37565 ID: c6ce12

>>347362
Uh, any of these deals are permanent solutions as far as I'm aware. In each deal the people we are approaching will have a way to intercept the strikes before they hit us, preventing damage to our personal magic.
>>
No. 37567 ID: f0e3ae

>>347365
then i misunderstood. I thought the deals involve giving us an outlet to channel the power into after it strikes. If they are intercepting it before it strikes then its a pretty big game changer.

I'd still like to see if we can make armas into a true wizard though.
>>
No. 37568 ID: 234c26

Of the offered options, I like the goblin one the best... except that I'm concerned that in the long term, it's not a large enough return. We'd need some kind of long-lasting benefit.

If we can work in permanent status as Friend to the Goblinkin everywhere, a brownie assistant, and a full overview of supernatural and particularly fae culture (i.e. getting only the information that any common goblin would know and which is thus not incredibly valuable), then I'd go for that one without hesitation.

Maybe I'm just greedy, but it seems like the training deal is just offering us something that we'll already get with time, meaning that in a year or three we'd be not much better off than we would be otherwise.


Failing that, being a quasi-wizard is an attractive prospect. Preferably we'd get a power with a great deal of utility that we could not use technology to effectively substitute for; that is, something like teleportation or force fields rather than throwing fire.
>>
No. 37569 ID: c6ce12

These logs are long overdue for posting, slipped my mind until now to be honest. Anyway, important information.

[18:15] <TheBeardiestBob> well
[18:15] <TheBeardiestBob> well well well
[18:15] <TheBeardiestBob> I have good new
[18:15] <TheBeardiestBob> news
[18:17] <TheBeardiestBob> I have now gotten two other people interested in running characters in the Guns for Hire setting-one is choosing to become the Texan Iroquois gunslinger (Now going by the oh-so-pleasant translated name of Big-Crazy).
[18:18] <TheBeardiestBob> And another person playing as Brandt's wife. They actively want to try playing in the setting, and I will encourage it in the following-I will be doing their
[18:19] <TheBeardiestBob> They do not, and will not, know of Armas' charms, or of Mammon's Device.
[18:19] <TheBeardiestBob> So, from now on, when I roll for enemies in thread, that means it's an actual player, so... be warned, the contest will be fiercer.
[18:43] <TheBeardiestBob> You mean, what have they learned of you? I can only tell you all they know is in character, but I told them that you were one of three seperate MC I have running in GFH, and are, from a rules standpoint, a pretty major threat.
[18:43] <TheBeardiestBob> They most certainly don't know about your rapid healing.
[18:50] <TheBeardiestBob> oh-yes, they know the three major MC's are all group staffed.
[18:51] <TheBeardiestBob> Savoy and Labombard both have IRC player groups now.
[18:51] <TheBeardiestBob> I might add, Labombard has been kicking it up a notch, fucker be insane.
[18:53] <TheBeardiestBob> He's basically been waging a one man war against the US special forces arranged against the Triads while Lo Fang's been busy trying to keep up with the Savoy character, who has been making expressways towards the Wizard Khubiliai
[18:54] <TheBeardiestBob> all of this you already knew (or can afford to know with Labombard) so telling you is not an issue-I am just giving you a reminder of what they've been up to.
[18:54] <TheBeardiestBob> Also, Savoy character hit the biggest of lottos with his bloodline power-I caution you this once.
[18:56] <TheBeardiestBob> Currently, Savoy ONLY has that-but with what he's been doing-he may end up with a second bloodline-like ability. Fuckers been taking his pre-existing high rank to move aggressively.
[18:56] <TheBeardiestBob> I am going to add other individual and MC charas as time passes (all of whome will have in-quest rolls) but be aware the main thread (since the others are IRC) is still the quest.lv one.
[18:57] <Grail> Was there some hint at sorcerery? Because if there wasn't and I'm remembering wrong I'm guessing some sort of holy paladin esque ability tied to the early mythic brotherhood the mafia claims to originate from.
[18:58] <TheBeardiestBob> Grail, there is a different assassin in the Mafia with such a power who happens to be Savoy's bro-but Savoy himself could probably end him without much issue anyway.
[18:59] <TheBeardiestBob> His power is one of those that 'rules are complicated, think through rules OH GOD WHAT THE HELL' type powers.
>>
No. 37570 ID: 835a2d

>>347369
>Important information
>In IRC

WHY
>>
No. 37571 ID: 234c26

>>347370
As long as it gets reliably cross-posted into this thread, I don't mind. It's when it stays silently in IRC that things are bad.
>>
No. 37572 ID: 835a2d

>>347371
Why run the risk at all?

Why is important shit being revealed in IRC a good thing?

No one's given me a solid answer, just excuses, like "He's always done it" (He should stop) "The IRC isn't exclusive" (It wasn't mentioned either here or in the thread) "Anyone who follows Golem Quest should expect it" (Why, and for that matter, not everyone reads both)

No one has told me why it's a good thing and why he should continue revealing pertinent and important info via IRC.
>>
No. 37576 ID: f0e3ae

I am actually on IRC... my problem with IRC is that unlike a forum, I cannot just look up what I missed. I must be actively connected at the exact time that bob says something in it. If you are offline because your computer is off then you miss it.
>>
No. 37577 ID: a76809

>>347370
Because I open a discussion thread and people don't ask questions in it-but they DO on IRC. And since I like to clarify things, I answer said questions. Maybe if something confused you, or you were curious about ______, you could... you know, ask about it, not just get angry when someone asked on a medium you don't like, at a time where you were not present to observe it?
>>
No. 37578 ID: f0e3ae

>>347377
fair point that people don't actually ask that many questions here on the dis thread.
Its not that he is going to IRC to post information, rather people ask and he answers wherever they asked.
>>
No. 37579 ID: 835a2d

>>347377
The problem, Bob, is that while that's fine and dandy, sometimes things are said in IRC that I want to know that I didn't even know I wanted to ask about - or that are needed to fully grasp suggestions or actions or plans.

THere's no rolling archive for IRC, no way to look up posts, and more and more, I'm saying "Well Bob said X in IRC, so that's why I'm suggesting this" and for someone who, say, just wants to read the threads to stay caught up, that's a real fucking disappointment.
>>
No. 37580 ID: 835a2d

>>347379
>And more and more, I'm seeing

It's four AM.
>>
No. 37582 ID: d3dfb8

>>347379
Yes there is, it's called logs. Ask ManofTroy for them.
>>347378
>he answers wherever they asked.
HAHAHAHA NO. He answers when he feels like answering.
>>
No. 37584 ID: f0e3ae

>>347382
The two are not mutually exclusive.
>>
No. 37585 ID: 835a2d

>>347382
>Reading through day's worth of logs when shit could just be posted here instead of there, or not at all

More excuses, yay~!

When DungeonCrawler got questions about his setting, he posted codexes in his discussion thread. That's what you're supposed to do, put it all in a place where you're certain everyone who reads the quest will see it. Not some of them. Not most of them. All of them. To do otherwise is to exclude some of your readership from information for no reason other than simple lazyness, on the part of you, the author.

Several people in #Rubyquest named this as a reason they aren't reading anymore, and have remained silent on the matter because they felt "Bob wouldn't listen".
>>
No. 37588 ID: c6ce12

18:58TheBeardiestBobDorian Gray does exist in the setting-and unlike the book one, he was a bit smarter than the common lore (which he helped author and orchestrate), and had a mortal painter paint over his Devil painting several hundred years ago, and it is now the true face of any one of thousands of famous portraits. The one in the hideyhole in his mansion? A replica.
18:59TheBeardiestBobThis Dorian Gray, in addition to being completely unkillable thanks to a deal with a very, VERY high ranking devil, can literally be blown away to the atom and still immediately come back into existence in his old place. Think faster-than-Bang healing, but with no boosting property-just return to default.
18:59TheBeardiestBobNo amount of firepower can overcome his unkillability, not a thousand GAU 8s, not a nuke, nothing, he will get back up.
19:01TheBeardiestBobAnd thanks to being old, smart enough to work his major deal with a Devil, he, while still a vanilla human in physical ability, is a VERY versatile and skilled practicioner-think Wizard light, in that he doesn't have massive gaping holes in his magic use like most practicioners, but not the super oh god power.
19:03TheBeardiestBobHe wasn't originally a practitioner-but enough suffusion of Hellish power over CENTURIES let him become a more potent than average magic user-while having a Devil Contract, which is comparably potent to a Bloodline ability.
19:03TheBeardiestBobAnd yes, you can't use the knowledge in game, but he did spend some time as Oscar Wilde, so he could author said false tale.
19:06TheBeardiestBobSo, I may note, that while Dorian the NPC in the quest is a Devil Contract/Practitioner, the Savoy MC is getting ever closer on getting a Wizardly Contract to complement his insanely powerful bloodline.
19:06TheBeardiestBobso soon there will be TWO hybrids you know of.

21:53TheBeardiestBobAnyway, there is a certain group that commandeered the Steyr ACR patent after it got nixxed-and the H&K G11, as well as those of MB associates gyrojet weaponry. They may not have gauss-bullpups, but between excellent muzzle velocity followed by ACCELERATION at twenty feet-well, you can auto-fire rounds that would have far too much recoil otherwise
21:54TheBeardiestBobComplete with the real beauty, incendiary-tipped flechette rounds that are each individually gyrojet and drill-tipped, to embed the fire inside of even armored targets. It is a 60mm underslung cluster of sixty four flechette needles, attached to the above bullpup of doom.
21:54TheBeardiestBobSo, the people that use the highest velocity infantry firearms in the world? Titan Corporation. The specific subset of said PMC that uses these guns: The Titan's Reapers. You basically have to think slogging through a war by day and pulling spec ops at night is /boring/ for them to consider you for being a Reaper.
21:54TheBeardiestBobAnd one final thing about these wonderful guns and the experts that use them-they come with inbuilt self-destruct devices that are keyed to their owner's heart and proximity-heart stops, or gets too far away, all the important mechanisms get some thermite treatment. Same if you try to fiddle with them.

>>347372
Shot I don't see why you are the one making half of these complaints. For one you can't even keep half the quest information straight yourself. You constantly complain about not knowing things in the IRC when you're there, but the information you were whining about is usually stuff that is available in the main thread or the discussion thread. And you know for a damn fact the IRC isn't exclusive and it has been posted in the main thread as of a few days ago in response to your complaints then. Those same complaints I will remind you shouldn't have come from you in the first place since you already knew how to access it, but instead of posting it for everyone you whined about the fact that it wasn't being posted until someone did it for you. What kind of person sees a problem they can fix without any effort on their part, but instead of doing so they put their efforts towards screaming and hollering about the problems existence? And that same person nearly got banned from the wiki for trying to edit it in so that everyone could see it there.
>>
No. 37589 ID: 835a2d

>>347388
>And that same person nearly got banned from the wiki for trying to edit it in so that everyone could see it there.

What.
I've barely even touched the wiki.

And "easily fixed" means "Staying on the IRC all day every day in case something might possibly be said which I will need in order to post". Which, frankly, is not "easily". "Easily" would be seeing the information posted by Bob himself, in his own thread, where everyone is guaranteed to read it, and thus there are no problems. I haven't been on IRC for the past few days, and already, there's new shit I've missed, probably, that likely won't get posted, that will be used for suggestions.

It's already happened a few times both here and in GQ. Between the "The gates are eating our magic" and "Some asshole stole all our shit, let me tell you in IRC only who did it" I'm getting kind of tired of it, and the fact that no one posted either of those before they posted their suggestions then clarified "oh, there was hints (read: small mentions of something that could never have been pieced together that way) but this was explicitly said in an internet chat room with the author" really ticked me off.

The fact that this was put forth as a problem by several other people in IRC who tried to read these quests but were put off from it due to it, and their reluctance to say anything because it would mean jack shit, and that you're proving them right, saddens me deeply.
>>
No. 37592 ID: e10f55

>>347389
The last paragraph can not have been that hard to parse that you thought it was entirely about you.

The same person that posted up the IRC location in the thread also put it up in the Wiki, nearly got banned from the wiki for it, but sorted some things out and the IRC location is now in two places, the thread and the Wiki.

Which, btw, is here: http://quest.lv/wiki/Gun_for_Hire_Quest - don't know why it's Gun instead of Guns
>>
No. 37595 ID: d3dfb8

>>347389
>And that same person nearly got banned from the wiki for trying to edit it in so that everyone could see it there.
That was me fuckhead.
You're welcome.
>>
No. 37596 ID: c6ce12

>>347389
>I've barely even touched the wiki.
Not talking about you, I'm talking about the person who posted the links, which again for clarification, was not you.

>And "easily fixed" means "Staying on the IRC all day every day in case something might possibly be said which I will need in order to post". Which, frankly, is not "easily". "Easily" would be seeing the information posted by Bob himself, in his own thread, where everyone is guaranteed to read it, and thus there are no problems. I haven't been on IRC for the past few days, and already, there's new shit I've missed, probably, that likely won't get posted, that will be used for suggestions.

You misread en-fucking-tirely. I said the problem you were whining about was that the link to the chat itself was not being posted anywhere and thus the chat is a 'super special club'. So the problem I was referring to from then on was that problem, a problem which could have been fixed by you by POSTING THE LINK, something that is as simple as a quick copy and paste. You however, did not, and instead of fixing said problem, bitch about it. You have no desire to see these things fixed, you just have a desire to make yourself a nuisance.
>>
No. 37597 ID: 835a2d

>>347396
"Providing a link to the IRC" is not "Making certain that all the information is posted in a place where everyone can read it" because not everyone who knows about the IRC is there.
>>
No. 37598 ID: c6ce12

>>347397
You aren't even reading what I'm typing are you? If you are you're reading comprehension comes into question because at no point did I even come close to implying those are the same things. I am not targeting that argument you just made, I am targeting one of the ones you made that I linked to originally. Though while we're on that post since you can't seem to stop thinking I'm referring to it, Bob isn't the lazy one, you are. As demonstrated by the instance I keep quoting, you would rather cling to your arguments and whine rather than clicking a couple damn buttons.
>>
No. 37600 ID: f0e3ae

Posting data author gave out in IRC to the wiki is a bannable offense? How odd...
>>
No. 37601 ID: 835a2d

>>347400
Squeegy-MobileOne of them went in #tozol to bitch loudly about how LP undid his changes to the Guns for Hire page because he removed the template, then railed against templates in general
14:42Shot___Oh, the guy who 'nearly got banned'
14:43Shot___Just to put in the IRC channel
14:43Squeegy-MobileLP told him not to vandalize the templates or he'd ban him.
14:43Squeegy-MobileIn the edit reason
14:43Squeegy-MobileSo he came on IRC
14:43Squeegy-MobileDid a /whois on Phil, and came in #tozol to bitch at him
14:44Squeegy-MobileHe said templates were annoying and too limited
14:44Squeegy-MobileHe was like "30 quest threads and 5 disc threads? That's a limit!"
14:44Anonymageanyway I'm not even going to bother saying anything in the GFH dis thread
14:45AnonymageI brought it up back when the thing with senth happened
14:45Squeegy-MobilePhil wasn't even there
14:45Squeegy-MobileSo he was sperging out at everyone else
14:45AnonymageI went to the IRC and said "wait, what the fuck why are you guys screaming for this character's blood" and they were like "he took all our money and he's also Jak Stryfe" and I was like "what"
14:45Anonymage"oh it came up in IRC here look at the log"
14:46Squeegy-MobileI asked him why he didn't PM and he said he wanted to solve the issue and Phil was afk
14:46Anonymage"or maybe post this log to the discussion thread"
>>
No. 37609 ID: 1854db

>>347398
Are you saying he's lazier than Bob because he didn't post a link to the IRC channel in this thread?

Because you haven't posted it either. Here, let me post it.

irc://irc.rizon.net/golemquest
>>
No. 37617 ID: c6ce12

>>347409
In this thread? No, in the main thread, where he began this tirade about it being a secret location. But yes, I think it's fair to assume he is lazier than Bob seeing as how the effort for the one task he could have done is significantly less than for the task he is proposing, that and that Bob is willing to look through two separate mediums to answer questions.

I do enjoy the subtle jab your trying to give me by implying I'm lazy for not posting it here, but guess what? I'm not the one complaining about it, I don't give a damn if it got posted anywhere in the first place. What I'm doing is complaining about the complaining and if there was an easy solution to get rid of it that I could take, please tell me, because I'll happily accept being called on hypocrisy if you had decent reasoning. That and I've been the one spoon feeding you people information this whole time.
>>
No. 37618 ID: 049dfa

>You have no desire to see these things fixed, you just have a desire to make yourself a nuisance.

Thanks Grail, you just validated every reason I have to think that the bobquest crowd are intolerable shitstains.

Btw: I'm one of those people shot was talking about who said that it was pointless to bring this up.
>>
No. 37620 ID: 835a2d

>>347418
14:56 Anonymage [14::52:55] Grail: Cool
14:56 Anonymage [14::53:00] Grail: That was fun
14:56 Anonymage [14::53:05] Grail: Got shot to leave both channels
14:56 Anonymage [14::53:18] ManAsleep: How did we do that?
14:56 Anonymage [14::53:28] Grail: Uh I don't know someone link Troy a chat log
14:56 Anonymage [14::53:50] Grail: I'd suggest everyone pulls out too. Unless you really want to fuck with rubyquest as a whole
14:56 Anonymage [14::54:02] Grail: I just went for a precision strike on Shot

And chasing people across IRC channels just to annoy them and shit up the place, what the hell, man. Before this, I thought you were an alright guy.
>>
No. 37621 ID: 252e1b

>>347420

Grail is just as big an ass as I am, it's just that instead of insulting shitty art in general he picks on and bullies specific people.
>>
No. 37622 ID: d3dfb8

>>347417
>>347418
>>347420
I find it amazing that you assume things about a group of people simply because a single one decides to take enjoyment in antagonizing others. It seems to me you're using our most dickish and rude member to give yourself an excuse to dislike us more than you did without knowing us, and refusing to get to know us using him as an example. This is evidenced multiple times in chat as several GQ/GfH readers who, despite being ridiculed and threatened (most notably by Squeegy) were extremely polite and civil.

While I am a good friend of Grail, I am not defending him here. I absolutely refuse to condone his actions, as they were wildly inappropriate. However, the fault is just as much yours as it is his. You should all feel ashamed of yourselves.
>>
No. 37626 ID: c6ce12

>>347422
I...begrudgingly accept that my actions were rash and I perhaps could have handled that in a better way. I am not sorry for what I said, but perhaps in the way that I went about it and if I caused anyone else besides who I was having words with a problem. I should have went to him specifically, but then with his penchant to post logs I doubt it would be any more contained than it is now. Not that I came in with the desire to say anything to him at all, merely to observe what he was saying about the channel, as others were noting him to have been stirring up things for days now. Needless to say the reaction we all received for merely coming in to see things incited a bit of a reaction, which as I said could have been handled better.
>>
No. 37631 ID: 049dfa

>>347422

>However, the fault is just as much yours as it is his.

Sorry shitstain, but not a goddamn bit of this is my fault. I'm the one who brought up 'the way that bob runs his quests, where he rewards players for being the guy who attacks another player character because he heard that character's player tell the DM he was taking something from the dude's bag while he slept, was really off-putting. It's terrible storytelling and it means that when you try to read the thread to catch up on a quest it looks like shit just comes completely out of nowhere, and -that guy- is always the shittiest guy in a gaming group.'

I also told shot not to bother bringing it up because, even though you're all -that guy-, you like being -that guy- and bob likes running games for -that guy- and the lot of you are free to do it.

None of this shit is my fault to any degree at all. Criticism (and this IS criticism, and even completely constructive criticism at that) is not wicked. I am not ashamed at all.

>>347426

>Needless to say the reaction we all received for merely coming in to see things incited a bit of a reaction, which as I said could have been handled better.

14:56 Anonymage [14::53:50] Grail: I'd suggest everyone pulls out too. Unless you really want to fuck with rubyquest as a whole
14:56 Anonymage [14::54:02] Grail: I just went for a precision strike on Shot

So now you're -that guy- AND a bad liar. Fantastic.
>>
No. 37635 ID: 692cff

>>347431
>the way that bob runs his quests, where he rewards players for being the guy who attacks another player character because he heard that character's player tell the DM he was taking something from the dude's bag while he slept

Eh, I disagree with this. The one time something comparable to that happened was when a drunk friend of Bob's convinced a drunk Bob to hand out information on IRC. Which was very shocking because I hadn't joined the IRC when this happened. Everything else is mainly discussing speculation and and maybe confirming something that we'd find out with some waste of time legwork in quest so we can bicker about it before the update. It's almost always stuff we will find out before it becomes relevant, or would find out if we had the character check something as opposed to just asking Bob in IRC(We as players should probably start doing that). That or something that would take no effort from the character but take several updates of information gathering to convey. All we're getting to do is plan ahead a bit really.

For instance, in this quest right now, we're being offered a deal for trading something major away. There are several people we could go to and see what we could get, but going there and haggling with each one before we choose one? Sort of a waste of time. So we get a general idea of what each one is offering, so we don't need to waste weeks worth of updates on heading to each one. That information is in this post by the way. >>347336

I'll admit that handing out information on IRC probably makes it a bit harder for people to follow, but frankly, to me it's a major part of the quest. I liked reading and posting in GQ before, though it did get a little frustrating at times, but now the most enjoyable part of the quest is discussing and arguing about it in IRC. Without Bob giving us fodder for that, it'd die down pretty quick.

>So now you're -that guy- AND a bad liar. Fantastic.

Grail wasn't really lying about that. Sure, he went over there to fuck with Shot. I only went to see what was being said about us though. Insufferable Mystic was already there and just let us know we were being bitched about, and to my knowledge didn't try and fuck with anyone. And the reaction those who went to see what was up got? We're all worthless fucktards who should go die in a fire. Seriously, you don't think popping into a channel and the first thing you see is being told that isn't likely to get a reaction out of somebody? Grouping us all together when you were arguing with an individual escalated things. You get in a fight with a black dude and start throwing about racial slurs and anyone part of that group who didn't care before will start to. That's just how things work.
>>
No. 37638 ID: 1854db

>>347417
Main thread? This is the main thread for guns for hire.
>>
No. 37639 ID: 692cff

>>347438
No, this is discussion. He means it was posted in the quest thread, where the "This is bullshit" started.
>>
No. 37641 ID: a76809
File 130763987510.jpg - (56.42KB , 800x646 , Camella New Sidearm.jpg )
37641

So, since it's clear that information needs to start being recorded more concretely, I'll do what I can with my time to provide more for you guys-so you have less you need to plug in/find yourselves.


It hasn't come up in quest and is in no way a big deal, but Camella ALSO got exceptionally drunk Friday night, and won a classic-build Franchi double-barreled shotgun, over-under design, sawn-off. In said drunken impromptu gambling, she also won several hundred lira.


So, she has a 12gauge 2-shot, and a couple hundred extra bucks from that event. Not a big thing, but it happened, and rather than make note of it in IRC, I'll post it here.


...Would REALLY help make sure information is posted here if people ask questions about things so I know what people need to know. If I tried to do-all world details or some such, I wouldn't know where to start.


So... questions?
>>
No. 37643 ID: 234c26

>>347441
Aside from the Mafia, Triads, and Germans, what significant human-centric underworld groups are there in Istanbul? There seem to be a curious absence of native Turkish groups thus far.

How common are Bloodlines? Are we talking every tenth person in the setting is running about with a bit of magic curled up inside them, or every ten thousandth? How do Bloodlines come into existence in the first place?

Can normal people learn magic? That is, almost all the supernatural stuff that we see seems to be rooted in lineage, or granted by someone or something already steeped in supernatural power. The only exception I can think of- and I don't even know if it is and exception- is Go Ping, who seemed to be studying to gradually learn magic... except that he learned very quickly from Lo Fang, so that could fall under endowment too, or he could be using some Chinese bloodline power. So what are the mechanics of this? Or I suppose more broadly, what are the basic routes to magic power for a human in the Gun for Hire world?
>>
No. 37644 ID: 835a2d

>>347443
>Can normal people learn magic?

Expanding on this - What can normal people without a bloodline or ties to fey courts manage on their own? What sort of supernatural things be accessed merely by hard work?

Further, are there any sort of mercenary companies, PMCs, etc, that specialize in supernatural things?

Is there a way to mass-produce +1 rifles?
>>
No. 37649 ID: a76809

Besides Mafia, Triads and Germans, there is an Indian drug cartel, and two separate Turkish groups-one predominately based on heroin smuggling to the rest of Europe with Kurdish connections, the other working in massive amounts of arms dealing. There is a Russian presence, but it is not of considerable size-there is also a small local Yakuza presence, insofar as members are here, but they don't really do anything.

If I had to ballpark bloodlines, its about one in a thousnd, to get any kind of bloodline. Bloodlines come into existence by inheriting them from someone with either an active bloodline or whose bloodline was inactive-think recessive trait.

Normal people learning magic... kinda hard to answer. Normal people kind of have the superpower lottery-if you are joe shmo and a Gate opens in you, yes you can die-but you have okay odds of becoming a Wizard instead. So normal people make the most powerful casters-when they don't explode. As to normal magic levels, practitioner stuff-not on their own, they'd need to get the power from some other source to work it.

More broadly, the route to learning magic, if not already a practitioner or a power lotto wizard winner, is to get those WITH power to be willing to invest some of said power into you.

>>347444
What magical things can you find, barring stumbling over it or having connections to exploit...hm. Well, there are some meditative martial styles that can lead to actually percieving one's soul, and moving it around a bit to tweak one's performance-focus all your durability to a single point to stop a knife, or make a single blow have every bit of strength in your body behind it. But outside of having a bloodling, being a wizard or making some contracts.... not really possible to just learn magic on your own.

There is Titan Corporation, a US based PMC that has a division of private special forces that world governments hire when their own conventional troops prove insufficient to a supernatural threat. Not used that much in the US because of AORB (those with the suits up above) but reasonably common in Europe, Africa and Asia. Beyond them-no, since it takes considerable resources to be able to insure mission success against all the different creepy crawlies about.

Mass-produce.... yes, if you had SHITTONS of supplies of bones from magically charged animals, and their blood to quench metal in-then yes. Not so much for imbuing metal or wood the conventional way, so you'd have to 'steal' supernatural energy if you wanted to do any sort of mass-production.



Any more questions?
>>
No. 37660 ID: 835a2d

Our new AA-12 needs an awesome name.

Speaking of it - is it like a magical bow in DnD, n that it imbues the ammunition once fired? In other words, would it be wise to load it with incendiaries and have fire that doesn't allow regen?
>>
No. 37665 ID: 692cff

Grails about to offer up a suggestion for trading in Mammon's device for the werewolf deal, and getting a replacement for it at the sametime. Bob informed us of this possibility. Figured I'd let everyone out of IRC know that.
>>
No. 37683 ID: a76809

>>347460
yes, it imbues ammunition when fired-so soaking it in something would not 'taint' said fluid with the weapon's magics.
>>
No. 37685 ID: 234c26

What were those mostly-invisible things that we fought on the stairway to Hell? I've been adding a list of known supernatural creatures to the wiki (admittedly, most of them are things we've only heard about) and they need a label.


Speaking of things that need labels, the owner of the restaurant was referenced as "the Old One" when we were there, and by no other name. However, I can't call him that because Laetissi uses the same phrase later to refer to the creator of Mammon's Device, presumably Mammon, which demonstrates fairly conclusively to me that "Old One" is a class of being, possibly everything past a certain threshold of age and power. What should we call the restaurateur?
>>
No. 37686 ID: 835a2d

>>347485
Putting in a vote for the Old Vampire.
>>
No. 37689 ID: a76809

>>347485
Things in the stairwell, what their name is... eh, maybe this can clear that up-think of those things in the stairwell as the stairwell's anti-intruder defense mechanism-very specialized white blood, basically. They aren't separate entities, but fractions of the stairwell whole.

Since the restaurant owner is a dragon old enough to remember the dinosaurs (and miss those DELICIOUS Brontosaurs) and so old as to predate names.... why not just call him The Owner? Not like he cares for getting off his ass and doing things OUTSIDE of his restaurant, where while he may not get dinosaur meat by GOD he'll have whatever other food tickles his fancy.
>>
No. 37691 ID: f0e3ae

i think we should see about trading the mammon device + memories to the goblins.
>>
No. 37692 ID: 692cff

Bob said in IRC that Sometimes Merchant's halo is something he won from an angel. Also, based on some questions asked it seems like he's not affiliated with the Seelie or Unseelie courts, and quite possibly neither Winter or Summer either.
>>
No. 37693 ID: 234c26

>>347489
>They aren't separate entities, but fractions of the stairwell whole.
Well, then, should I be classing the stairwell as the entity? Just call it "The Stairwell"?

>The Owner
Will do.
>>
No. 37694 ID: 835a2d

>>347493
The Stairwell is a remixed SCP item.
>>
No. 37695 ID: 234c26

>>347492
My knowledge of the Dresden Files told me that goblins were wyldfae with their own agenda from day one. Surely knowledge from a solidly reputable source like that would never betray me.

>>347494
Which means what in terms of wiki classification, aside from that its entry should probably have a note to that effect in it?
>>
No. 37698 ID: c2d0f1

For the werewolf deal, whilst I don't like Rage or Hunger, Consumption and Absorbtion might be nice. We could get it bound into a set of very hard, very sharp ceramic teeth which we can pay off a dentist to replace our own.

We shouldn't do this until we have a more powerful soul though.
>>
No. 37701 ID: f0e3ae

can someone specify, in bullet points, why we would sell mammon device to werewolves instead of goblins?
>>
No. 37703 ID: 234c26

I don't like any of the werewolf options. I have no interest in gaining power at the cost of control, which is ultimately what they all boil down to as I understand them.

While I am interested in opening relations with the weres because they're obviously a powerful faction, the options for what they can provide us with thus far do not appeal to me.
>>
No. 37704 ID: a76809

>>347494
Not so much, anymore-Honestly, I'd classify it as.... hm. The easiest comparison would be to think of this 'Stairwell' as being a very specialized Deep Spawn for Mammon, ala Mordre. As to a name... Mammon's Stairwell, why not.
>>
No. 37705 ID: 856690

>>347503
>>347501

Right, I'm not really sure of the specifics but.. here it goes...

1: Transformation/More durability, Currently Armas is better than a human but not that great on the toughness front.
2: It doesn't have to be a Rage spirit, it can be something other than BERSERK.
3: Apparently the deal is what we make of it.

So basically we get a powerful spirit, to boost our dangerousness, One thing is that we can have a transformation, but really it is customizable, I don't think any of us have really explained this well.

Bob could, but currently he is in hospital, after food poisoning and resulting stomach pumping.
>>
No. 37708 ID: 81f32a

In the light of recent dissatisfaction I went through the logs, copied and edited the most interesting parts and compiled them into a single document for everybody to see.
Conveniently separated into chunks for easier and more pleasant reading.

http://pastebin.com/RgjvTHHU
http://www.mediafire.com/?u6z0bdwwrxhdui9



THANK ME, YOU WHINY, UNGRATEFUL DICKHEADS!
I SPENT HOURS DOING THIS BULLSHIT JUST SO THAT YOU FUCKS DON'T HAVE TO SPEND AN OUNCE OF EFFORT YOURSELF!
ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS TO LOG INTO THE CHANNEL AND IDLE THERE, NOT A FUCKING SOUL FORCES YOU TO PARTICIPATE IN THE CONVERSATIONS OR READ THEM ENTIRELY!
JUST FUCKING USE 'SEARCH' FUNCTION FOR BOB'S POSTS AND READ THEM!
STOP SUCKING A BOATLOAD OF DICKS, GET UP YOUR LAZY ASSES AND DO SOMETHING FOR ONCE!

>>
No. 37709 ID: 28e94e

>>347508
>spending hours on something nobody asked for or needed
>giving everybody shit
>asking for those same people's thanks
Stalker out of here get
>>
No. 37712 ID: f0e3ae

ok, the trade goblins for gold discussion is getting out of hand so I figure we move it to questdis.

>>/quest/311666

Seems like there is strong opposition so lets discussion the issues here.


>>/quest/311691
>You've forgotten...
I haven't forgotten, but:
1. We can at least ask.
2. You are saying that goblins LOVE gold but HATE paper money. Yet claim that they will hate on us for asking for either? That makes no sense.
3. You are suggesting that they will try to shaft us, they dealt with us fairly thus far and we have many deals going on.
4. By your own admission script money is not the same as precious metals (they despise one and respect the other)... they are already giving us rare meats and spices I am just suggesting something more fungible... although we COULD just keep asking for more varied types of meats and just sell those...

Actually fuck, call the triads and ask them how much they pay for the various kinds of meats we have. Those are super rare and probably worth MORE Then gold...
>>
No. 37713 ID: 234c26

>>347512
I have not claimed that they will hate us, just that the price will be higher than we wish it to be. That is not shafting us, it's merely reflecting their value system- but is nevertheless unfavorable.

I suspect that the reason they value precious metals is because of how time works for them. Recall that time in the nevernever flows very differently- they can simply plant their spices and let them grow up in subjective instants, making them essentially an infinite resource. Similarly with many types of creature- anything they can treat as livestock or a hunting animal, they have an effectively infinite supply of just by letting their ecosystem run itself. But metals do not grow or renew themselves, so they have only a finite supply of it- making its value far, far greater.

This does mean that there is an exploitable market gap by selling their renewables in the real world, but I do not think that we are currently in a position to set ourselves up as middleman. My guess would be that the market niche for supernatural foods is already well known to those who deal in the supernatural, and exploited by them; until we are both better situated and able to reliably deal in larger quantities, we should not make an attempt to penetrate that market. The quantities that we're dealing in at the moment aren't even large enough to fully replace Armas' groceries.
>>
No. 37714 ID: f0e3ae

>>347513
>The quantities that we're dealing in at the moment aren't even large enough to fully replace Armas' groceries.

I am pretty sure we were explicitly told we now have enough magic meats and spices coming each week to fully sustain us... aka we are in the point where it replaces our groceries entirely.
>>
No. 37720 ID: 835a2d

>>347508
Holy jesus fuck on a stick, calm the hell down. Calling us names and ASKING for gratitude will get you none.
>>
No. 37723 ID: 234c26

>>347508
Hey look what I found in that

#
[02:15] <@TheBeardiestBob> So-pretty soon, I predict a fight involving Olga, Big Crazy, Savoy, a Vampire-and Armas/Camella
#
[02:15] <@TheBeardiestBob> 'Twill be cool
#
[02:16] <Grail> Will the vampire have the ghoul that acts like Don King?
#
[02:16] <Guile> well, attending church just moved up the list
#
[02:16] <@TheBeardiestBob> Nope, it'll just be one of those smug ones that could twist Brandt into a pretzel, that's all
#
[02:17] <Grail> So Olga and Crazy are together, Vamps and Savoy pairing up?
#
[02:17] <Guile> there are NOT smug vampires?
#
[02:17] <Grail> The dead ones
#
[02:17] <Guile> also, Savoy doesnt really need allies
#
[02:21] <Grail> Wonder if it's the vampire we heard about before
#
[02:21] <Grail> What was his name, Gunther?
#
[02:25] <@TheBeardiestBob> Savoy and Vamp are kiiiiinnda on the same side, but not really
#
[02:25] <@TheBeardiestBob> if their 'team' is the winner of the three-way only one of them will be leaving this, one way or another.
#
[02:25] <@TheBeardiestBob> Savoy can't leave the vamp alive after his business
#
[02:26] <@TheBeardiestBob> vamp can't let Savoy go because this is his chance to get DELICIOUS AWAKENED ROYAL BLOOD OM NOM NOM
#
[02:27] <@TheBeardiestBob> No, this is not Hans Gunther


That vampire description sounds damned familiar.
>>
No. 37730 ID: c2d0f1

Thinking about martial arts training. After we've learned what we can from Ito about jukenjitsu and the manipulation of energy through the chakras, we should ask the goblins if they can add training in the use of the glaive to what they will teach us (the sword bayonet is used a lot like a glaive). In return, we will arrange for them to be taught modern martial arts or teach it ourselves.

We should also ask Ito if he's interested in teaching the some people from the same group who taught Armas the footwork. We'll pay him his going rate to do it, plus extra for the inconvenience of having to do it in private.

We'll then charge the goblins hours of training time, and pay Ito in dollars or lira. SM should be happy with that, as the deal with him for training is similar, the goblins who are training are not the ones who are teaching.

When we can afford it, we might see if we can set Camella up with a similar deal, as she needs to earn a living, but we'll need to get some money first. Hopefully after we hit Smets place we can sell some stuff.
>>
No. 37733 ID: f0e3ae

you know, when I heard that savoy was defeated by fang I assumed savoy was KILLED.
But all this OOC knowledge suggests that he survived, merely losing the battle, and by abusing his bloodline ability is about to get much much much more powerful.
>>
No. 37744 ID: 692cff

Savoy lost an arm in the attack. Last I heard, Fang was using it to stamp signatures. He's be pursuing demon and wizard contracts. And also something about getting a demon arm to replace his old one.
>>
No. 37745 ID: 835a2d
 

>>347544
>And also something about getting a demon arm to replace his old one.
>>
No. 37747 ID: 856690
File 130784662729.png - (55.43KB , 400x400 , Armasfacepalm.png )
37747

This picture is in the event of things going a badly, like being betrayed. I am putting it here cause i may not be able to post it at the relvant juncture

It is Armas.
Facepalming.
>>
No. 37753 ID: 835a2d

What of supernatural fruits and vegetables?
>>
No. 37764 ID: f0e3ae

>>347553
lets get some... magic salad here we come!
>>
No. 37765 ID: 692cff

Heads up, in IRC, using only the information in the logs posted >>347508, we put together that Havoc and Locke are Olga and Big Crazy. We know there's three way shitstorm with Savoy and a Vampire who wants his delicious awakened royal blood(this is smets), Big Crazy and Olga(Locke and Havoc), and us and Camella. Assuming Olga has either had plastic surgery or some movie make-up magic done to hide who she is, which is why Armas noticed something wrong with her face during their first meeting.

Gonna go ahead and note, this isn't a situation of something big being given away on IRC, it's the people on IRC doing some brainmeat thinking and coming up with what's happening. Preparing for it is a bit meta, but so far every job we've had where the supernatural came up has screwed us over majorly, so I think Armas would be paranoid.
>>
No. 37776 ID: f0e3ae

we should make a deal with the goblins such that we will teach them modern weaponry in the nevernever.

We could "instantly" (in the real world) gain all the hours we ever could from them.

The ability to teleport anywhere on earth would be awesome beyond belief. Reconnect with waitiri, escape from a bad fight, hunt down an opponent, save a ton of time... teleportation is one of the most powerful and awesome things ever. We should ask the goblins what methods there are to teleport and which can they sell us.

>>347492
Ah, I just assumed all goblins in this setting have a halo of fire, and from that assumed they are summer court.
This changes things.
>>
No. 37786 ID: 234c26

I wonder- if the actual Locke and Havoc died two weeks ago... did they have friends who would be interested in their killers? Perhaps enough for a bounty for their kill or capture?
>>
No. 37797 ID: 692cff

Figured I'd throw out IRC information for this encounter. Smets can move in sunlight because the house is warded up. Short of blowing up the house, nothing we can do about that. Camella is fighting Olga(Havoc), who is fighting ghoul-ed up security forces, who is fighting Camella.

And more IRC information, but this is kind of old. Might be in the chat log dump. Camella when underground ran across a couple feral vampires. She ripped one's throat out with her teeth, and the other shit it's pants and fled. So she can take care of herself.
>>
No. 37798 ID: 252e1b

Hey are the amulets one-use items or do they recharge given time?
>>
No. 37806 ID: 234c26

Question for Bob:
If we asked the Sometimes Merchant to sell us some luck (good luck, specifically), would he be able to? If so, what form would it take, how effective could it be, and where does that fall in the Crazy Goblin Pricing Scheme (TM)?

>>347598
Based upon our conversations with Sometimes Merchant, they're one-use. I'm not sure that the goblins even sell permanent ones, presumably because they're just that much harder to make.

And considering that we already owe the goblins three mercenary jobs for the first two, I shudder to think what we'd have to pay for a permanent one if they do sell those.

>>347597
The update on Camella and info on the house is appreciated. I think all of us were already pretty sure Camella was a hardcore badass, though.
>>
No. 37818 ID: c2d0f1

For the future.

Next time we go on a job we should bring along belts of AA-12 bullets.

As this video shows, a man much less destrous or motivated than Armas can reload the drum in about 35 seconds:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/299432/aa12_demo/

He should be able to manage 20 secs, which he should be able to find on the job given his stealth.

Also, in preparation for the next mission, you want to buy the AA-12 a top quality suppressor. They're illegal in Turkey, but, as it happens, in Finland the trade is completely unrestricted. You should be making a trip home at some point anyway. If not, see if a more dubious contact can acquire one for you. In the long run, when you afford to, it might be nice to get the goblins to upgrade the suppressor to make the gun truly silent, starting with a good suppressor should make that cheaper.
>>
No. 38054 ID: 44766a

How is Camella doing? Is she still alive?
>>
No. 38082 ID: 7efaf6

>>347508
Thank you.
>>
No. 38084 ID: 234c26

When this whole sequence is over, can we get commentary on it from each of the other players involved? Preferably from both their perspective and their characters'. I have to wonder what the heck everyone else is thinking...
>>
No. 38086 ID: d3dfb8
File 130828148742.png - (199.93KB , 392x670 , 1306447525945.png )
38086

>>347854
Fuck you we'll find out when we find out.

>>347884
mfw all of this smets business
>>
No. 38173 ID: 44766a

I love the fact that Armus and Camella, two of the weakest PCs in this quest, just totally wrecked the shit out of everyone else. (actually how powerful was Olga, comparatively?)
>>
No. 38174 ID: 234c26

>>347973
Both Armas and Camella are pretty badass and have highly competitive skillsets. Whether they're the weakest PCs, I'm not sure, but neither of them are by any means small fry.

How the other PCs see them would be interesting to know, if Bob gets around to telling us at some point. The spoilered bit recently in the quest thread was as staggeringly uninformative as it was doubtless meant to be, but perhaps now that the action-packed portion of that sequence is presumably over more information will be available.
>>
No. 38177 ID: 44766a

I meant from a magical abilities standpoint. I mean Armus probably has the most diverse magical armory at this point in time. By the way, you know what Armus needs to buy later? A gasmask, some teargas grenades, and some thermal goggles. Actually we could just use the thermal scope on the Matebas to see thru smoke.
>>
No. 38178 ID: f0e3ae

I still can't believe armas shot off savoy's balls.
>>
No. 38179 ID: c6ce12

>>347973
Olga was one level above Armas. If Armas did effectively take a level since his stealth training than she was one level above both us and Camella, but it's more likely that we didn't and she was at about equal level with Camella.
>>
No. 38182 ID: c6ce12

>>347973
Olga was one level above Armas. If Armas did effectively take a level since his stealth training then she was one level above both us and Camella, but it's more likely that we didn't and she was at about equal level with Camella.
>>
No. 38183 ID: 44766a

Olga was out classed in that battle thou. Olga was a sniper. Camella is a monster in CQC. Am assuming they were relatively close to each other when Olga tried to shoot Armus in the head.
>>
No. 38184 ID: 234c26

>>347978
Shit, I forgot about that. Maybe we should give that tidbit to Sometimes Merchant for free. He'll laugh his ass off.
>>
No. 38185 ID: 44766a

DO IT!
>>
No. 38201 ID: e0ef2b

AlratanMobile: Why does the bullet need enchanting god silencing
AlratanMobile: *for
AlratanMobile: As the round goes supersonic inside the barrel
AlratanMobile: And the sonic boom only happens when you go past the speed of sound
AlratanMobile: Not continually during flight
TheBeardiestBob: the issue is because the gun would be preventing that moment of going supersonic from being heard-so the sonic boom doesn't happen, despite the bullet going at a speed where it should have made that. So, once out of the magic's effects, it does what any object going past the speed of sound does-makes a sonic boom
TheBeardiestBob: don't know if I phrased that properly, did that make sense?
01:23
AlratanMobile: Err, not really, but it's magic
AlratanMobile: The sonic boom happens when an object outruns the sound of it's own passage
TheBeardiestBob: Think of sound like any kind of data-you can move it or change it, but not outright destroy it-so, eventually the magic's ability to prevent it from happening no longer applies-the conditions to trigger the sonic boom are still met-so it occurs, just later than it should
TheBeardiestBob: Right, but magic fucks with physics by not letting the sonic boom occur at that point. To my knowledge, we have no way to even replicate such a scenario in real life.
AlratanMobile: Well, we can theoretically do funny things with wave cancellation
AlratanMobile: To minimise them
01:27
AlratanMobile: For example, in the extreme case, if I fire a gun in a box made of sound deadening foam
TheBeardiestBob: I'm sorry, let me be less vague-we can't replicate that in an open air environment, is that not correct
AlratanMobile: The bullet would emerge from the box, but the sound wouldn't
AlratanMobile: My suggestion is to make the gun a magic sound cancelling box
AlratanMobile: That sound waves can't pass through
AlratanMobile: But bullets can
AlratanMobile: Don't prevent the sonic boom
TheBeardiestBob: You would need some physics-based mechanics to provide to whoever you want to do the customizing-as most supernaturals do not approach things from the perspective of reality, but the nevernever.
AlratanMobile: I can do that
TheBeardiestBob: But presuming that-yes, it could be done
AlratanMobile: Would either be based on creating the anti-sound to the sonic boom
TheBeardiestBob: I would also recommend some sort of impact energy amplifying charm, to give real meaning to the term 'stopping power'
TheBeardiestBob: Shoot someone
TheBeardiestBob: wonky magic force multiplication on impact
TheBeardiestBob: ITS LIKE I HAVE THE BLOODY MESS PERK!
01:30
TheBeardiestBob: Then call the gun-The Tenderizer
AlratanMobile: I was actually going in a slightly different angle that added up to the same
TheBeardiestBob: that being?
AlratanMobile: Improved recoil handling
AlratanMobile: And a magically reinforced breech
AlratanMobile: So that you can use more powerful explosives in the shells
AlratanMobile: To propel them harder in a completely natural way
TheBeardiestBob: Would require hand-loading every single twelve gauge if you want that extra oomph-but sure, that is a viable means of achieving it.
01:34
AlratanMobile: Or teach the goblins how to hand load special bullets
AlratanMobile: And buy a life times supply
AlratanMobile: On shells, I wrote up a little idea
AlratanMobile: So, I was thinking of how to make best use of the AA-12, and how the MD's bullets were made from needles used in lethal injections, so I thought of sabotted flechette rounds. The SCMITR (sic) design seems to be the most effective. Whilst looking into flechettes, I discovered that they were used as delivery channels for chemical weapons, so, if we can buy and supernatural poisons from the goblins, we should have them designed with little bits to hold them. If the goblins can get basilisk blood, then basilisk venom should be possible.
AlratanMobile: That can be combined with the more powerful explosives
TheBeardiestBob: A thought
TheBeardiestBob: but
AlratanMobile: And maybe even the bottomless magazine I suggested in the thread
AlratanMobile: Go on
01:37
TheBeardiestBob: wooden slug around a silver needle-tipped core filled with whatever poison cocktail you want, also soaked in holy oil. So, it has holy stuff for fucking up demons, wood for fucking up vampires, silver for fucking up werebeasts, poison for... whatever, and not just fire, but HOLY fire.
TheBeardiestBob: The list of things this ammunition would NOT be able to hurt would be very short
TheBeardiestBob: maybe half silver jacket the wooden slug so that the increased firing energy of the handload does not outright shatter it....
AlratanMobile: That works for specialties
AlratanMobile: And makes good slugs
AlratanMobile: But we're loosing the spray advantage of a shotgun
AlratanMobile: Which is why I like the SCMITR flechettes
TheBeardiestBob: What is that type of munitions called where it's shot aroud a central slug, so it's like the bastard of a rifle and shotgun?
TheBeardiestBob: Usually only used for artillery because it's hard to microsize and expensive.
AlratanMobile: Can't recall
AlratanMobile: The grenade shotgun shell is the Frag 12
01:40
TheBeardiestBob: ...reading on SCMITR, I think you could stack those arrow blades AROUND a smaller central [as above] wood/silver needle slug.
AlratanMobile: You could do
TheBeardiestBob: so you could get spread that, while admittedly less than pure flechette, would still contain the specilized ammo that also has sufficient mass and durability to puncture armor the flechettes could not.
AlratanMobile: Ash
AlratanMobile: Sorry
AlratanMobile: Spellcheck
AlratanMobile: Advantage off the flechettes is partially that they've great armour penetration
AlratanMobile: Much better than slugs
AlratanMobile: As their sectional density is much higher
TheBeardiestBob: sure-but then you HAVE to have straight up metal, and at best you could silver plate it.
TheBeardiestBob: and then it stops being nearly as effective against all those fun beasties.
AlratanMobile: Flechettes can also be designed to carry a payload
01:44
AlratanMobile: The US designed examples to carry VX gel
AlratanMobile: But, you have a point on the wood
AlratanMobile: If you had the patience
TheBeardiestBob: Examples of the SCMITR, or of regular flechettes?
AlratanMobile: The only declassified examples predate the existence of SCMITR
AlratanMobile: But the SCMITR design of being a twisted sheet of steel should be easier to design carrier pits
01:47
AlratanMobile: As you can stamp the indents into the sheet before twisting
AlratanMobile: It seems the kind of fiendish design a goblin craftsman might appreciate
AlratanMobile: The wood is a challenge
TheBeardiestBob: So the poison payload is still viable then-and you could silver the stack as well-but that still does not solve the wood or the fire comperatives.
01:50
AlratanMobile: Correct, you'd still want some slugs
AlratanMobile: But that's the advantage of shotguns
TheBeardiestBob: ..we were doing alternating slugs before-why not now?
AlratanMobile: Diversity of rounds
AlratanMobile: Could make sense
TheBeardiestBob: one wood kitbash, one SCMITR kitbash, alternating.
TheBeardiestBob: 32 round drum
AlratanMobile: I still want to Tardis up the drum
TheBeardiestBob: that would be sixteen doubletaps that, between the two shell types, do not leave much they can't damage.
AlratanMobile: But that might get expensive
TheBeardiestBob: Tardis-I assume you are referencing Dr. Who here, do you mean temporal shenanigans, or just make it much larger on the inside?
01:54
AlratanMobile: Larger on the inside
AlratanMobile: So it can carry more rounds
AlratanMobile: So when we run out of special ones we can whale away of full auto standard shot
TheBeardiestBob: Well..... the magazine IS seperate from the gun, and it IS a viable charm type-they'd just make the inner lining a fractal that folds in on intself so that it has a theoretically infinite length along which rounds can be slotted in-wouldn't actually BE infinite, but still. Only problem would be this would make reload the biggest bitch possible
TheBeardiestBob: like, tens of minutes to put in the new bullets
TheBeardiestBob: rounds, that is.
02:00
AlratanMobile: That's fair enough
AlratanMobile: 10s of mins per round?
02:06
TheBeardiestBob: no-to reload it, given that it can hold a mess, and those drums are not designed to be rapidly restocked.
AlratanMobile: Well, post goblin modification I can believe it
AlratanMobile: But IRL the Aa12 drum takes about 25 seconds to fully reload
TheBeardiestBob: more like 30, 35-but yah
AlratanMobile: There's a video of some nutter on YouTube who obviously has nothing better to do
02:10
AlratanMobile: I think that Armad can live with that
AlratanMobile: He should buy another magazine for it anyway?
AlratanMobile: Also, but the enchanted suppressor count as a separate charm as well, as it's detachable
AlratanMobile: *would the...
02:20
TheBeardiestBob: it would
AlratanMobile: Cool
AlratanMobile: Thanks
TheBeardiestBob: so, you have the enchanted forstock/barrel (external addon), the breach augmentation (trying to do recoil too would make it way too expensive and the AA-12 already has a phenomenal recoil system) for the acceptance of higher pressure loads, the suppressor augmentation to absorb the sonic boom, and the magazine mod.
TheBeardiestBob: that glitching your way into having a four-way enchanted gun right there.
AlratanMobile: Yep
AlratanMobile: Sounds good
AlratanMobile: And hopefully as each is technically independent
AlratanMobile: It's cheaper than a single weapon with multiple properties
02:24
AlratanMobile: I think we
AlratanMobile: or at least Zi think that selling the punt gun in return for the suppressor enchNtment would be comedy
AlratanMobile: The suppressor should naturally help with the recoil anyway
AlratanMobile: A side question, does the regen suppression prevent normal human blood clotting?
02:27
TheBeardiestBob: it does indeed.
AlratanMobile: As, if so, the major weakness of conventional flechettes is removed
AlratanMobile: And Armas might as well buy those instead of normal spherical shot for normal use
AlratanMobile: As sabotted flechettes are commercially available
AlratanMobile: Bigger game would still call for the special rounds
02:32
TheBeardiestBob: Idea
TheBeardiestBob: get a ten gauge pump sawnoff-you can get ones that are actually smaller than the matebas-and make the super slugs for THAT. You have a considerably larger round to work with, meaning a larger faux-stake.
TheBeardiestBob: then just keep the AA-12 equipped with the custom SCIMTR ammo.
AlratanMobile: That's a
AlratanMobile: Good idea
AlratanMobile: Or
TheBeardiestBob: which, incidentally, you will need to give Armas a reason to find out about, as his knowledge is predominately based on guns, rather than their munitions, so he is not aware SCIMTR exist.
AlratanMobile: Right
AlratanMobile: I plan to have him research shotgun ammo in depth
AlratanMobile: And historical devolopments of
AlratanMobile: It
AlratanMobile: 15 mins on Wikipedia should
AlratanMobile: Be enough
02:35
AlratanMobile: He needs to learn about Frag 12 ammo anyway
AlratanMobile: For using the AA12 at range
AlratanMobile: Imagine a mix of poisoned SCIMTR and HEAP rounds for special occasions
03:04
TheBeardiestBob: ...Uh
TheBeardiestBob: you remember the AA came with some Frag-12 in the drum when you got it, and Armas is both familiar with it and has used it to great effect?
>>
No. 38222 ID: a76809

>>347598
The ones you procured were one-use. They burn out when employed.

>>347606
Yes, they could sell you luck-but WOW, general luck is expensive as shit and fickle to define-personally I would not recommend it but yes they can offer it.

>>347973
I'll tell you what other players said, when asked to 'sum up your thoughts on Armas and Camella, respectively, in one sentence.

Savoy:
Camella: Who?
Armas: Quite possibly the most annoying hitman we have encountered-and someone who we will greatly enjoy murdering the shit out of-but only after torturing him, which in turn will be after destroying all he holds dear.

...In case you can't tell, Savoy does not like you.

Labombard:
Camella: Who? (Why it's almost like no one knows she exists!)
Armas: A bit of a dick according to other people, but effectively a little brother in our eyes-one that needs help not pissing people off everywhere they go.

Olga:
Camella: The whore of my husband's killer, the one that slew me-a monster given human form.
Armas: The object of my hate and obsession, low scum that must be purged.

Big Crazy:
Camella: Who?
Armas: I was specifically told he could not do magic-WHAT IS THIS BULLSHIT!

>>347983
Less that she's a CQC specialist and more once she hits her 'go' button there are no breaks-the Camella pain train keeps rolling until she is dead or the threats are. There is not much middle ground. Olga was expecting someone that would, you know, hesitate to charge a gunman. Did not work out for her.
>>
No. 38236 ID: 44766a

Wait Camella is a berserker? Is she a hot or cold berserker? To Big Crazy: Well, most of my abilities are not magical at all.
>>
No. 38250 ID: f0e3ae

>>348036
considering how all the men leer at her I am guessing a hot berserker *zing!*

Kidding aside, what do those terms actually mean?
>>
No. 38257 ID: 35e1a0

>>348050
hot is screaming rage style where you are so angry you forget you are hit.
cold is quiet. think of someone that got so mad they were calm.
>>
No. 38260 ID: c2d0f1

>>348001
An idea on how to explain to the goblins how to make a suppressor to eliminate the sound of the AA-12.

Armas should look on the internet and find out how sound absorbent foam works, how sound propagates, and sonic booms. They need to charm the silencer so that it forms a small vacuum at the end through which the sound cannot escape, and alter the aural properties of the silencer to be the same as the foam.

To suppress the sonic boom, they need to change the design of the SCIMTR flechettes, so that pairs of them are attached together in flight, and have the following profile:

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Busemann%27s_Biplane

Now, making paired SCMITR flechettes with pits for poison and the above cross section would be next to impossible for most, but the goblins should have tools like Keihas' bayonet which can carve metal like wax, so for them it's merely a question of time. We should investigate selling them the design in return for a life time supply.

Of course, Armas wouldn't normally think of designing those, so we need to guide him in the right direction. He should start by investigating the FRAG-12 rounds he took alongside the AA-12 originally. In the course of that, he should come across the various attempt to extend the range of combat shotguns over the years, which will lead him first to sabotted flechettes, and then to the SCMITR experiments and using them to deliver chemical weapons. At that point, his own experiments with making wooden slugs using Keihas should suggest to him that the huge difficulty in making them is much reduced by supernaturally sharp tools, and that the goblins should have them. At that point, when he considers his suppressor, he should be on wikipedia already, and a couple of clicks through there to sonic booms to suppression of them, should take him to the BB aerofoil design.
>>
No. 38286 ID: a76809

>>348036
About as cold as it gets.
>>
No. 38292 ID: 252e1b

http://quest.lv/kusaba/quest/res/297498.html#i315343

Is the intelligence line given to us by Cornelius one use only? I was under the impression that it was good for any time during the course of the wager.
>>
No. 38295 ID: 81f32a

><Dkay_> So why din't Smets have an ongoing order to protect him?.... Seems like a reasonable thing to do when you have an omnipotent servant instead of using ghoul security force.
><TheBeardiestBob> Because you have to be REAL careful with non-excessively straightforward orders to Amen-it follows cursed monkey paw wishgranting schemes.


Yeah, don't go ordering stupid things.
Or at least make sure that every order can be canceled in future.
>>
No. 38301 ID: 234c26

>>348022
When you say "general luck", that implies other forms of luck exist. Do you just mean "luck in X" sort of things there, which would logically be easier to define due to its narrower focus, or something else?

As a point of curiosity, has Armas turned out anything like you thought he'd turn out when you started Gun for Hire?

It seems like magic weapons are significantly more common than other sorts of magical items, proportionally. Is that an actual feature of the universe, simple happenstance and we'll see more items of other sorts in the future, or a result of the kind of person that Armas is?
>>
No. 38320 ID: c2d0f1

A suggestion for review:

We should also think about what we should do with Amen. It seems, given SM's reaction, that we may have a god on a leash. That seems like a very dangerous position to be in. I suggest that we make a deal with him for manumission. This may be the first time that it is possible for him to be his own master, as what happened to Smets may never have occurred before. We should offer to command him to extract Smets blood from Keihas into on object of his choosing which has a duplicate of Keihas' vampiric properties, which we will then give to him.

Of course, we should explain, whilst we don't approve of slavery, we're no fools, we don't want to release a horror on the world, and we think we're due a boon for a boon.

The offer is that we will make him his own master, in a year and a day, in return for certain considerations, if he lives up to his end of the deal and we still live. In addition, if he can manage it, to alleviate his boredom if he can no longer fuck with his master, we will permit him to experience the outside world through our senses for that year, of course, he cannot inform anyone else what he perceives without our permission, or use that information against us in any way. We will also treat him with full respect as a partner, not a servant.

In return, he would understand if we want to make our power come the day of his release a little more equal, just as we are making our relationship. He is to eliminate negative side effects from these, and if they need to be applied gradually over the course of the year, so be it, although if possible they should be applied immediately or when we ask for them.

He should create an accelerated time x100 training facility in the basement of the mansion. Those inside should be able to heal and learn, but not age, or need to eat or drink. Describe the Nevernever training with the goblins.

Our soul/spirit needs to be strengthened. Firstly the damage that Whaitiri did needs to be repaired, and then reversed many-fold. If it would produce a superior result, then can be have portions of divine spirit grafted on as part of this process.

Our mind and perceptions need to be augmented - and this is something that will benefit him as well as us. We need to see and hear better, as well as be able to do so during sensory extremes. We also need to hone our metaphysical senses. Once, we could sense the powers of magic items, but that has been burned away. We need that ability so sense magic and its nature back, but augmented to apply to all things. Our mind needs to be upgraded to process these enhanced inputs, and more, to be able to judge and discriminate more finely between their subtleties.

Our body is weak, mortal. We face foes that are semi-divine, or of equivalent nature. What can he graft into us of his own nature that we can take on without harm he can't repair. Bone marrow, spleen, etc, what is possible.

We would also like him to give fair consideration to continuing to work with us as a partner after his release. As his master cannot order him to leave the house, we imagine that he will still be trapped when he is his own master. We are prepared to extend the sense sharing when he is free, in return for continuing to live in the mansion under his protection, and would be happy to enforce contrition on any who slighted him during his imprisonment for due consideration.

All of this we ask, and offer, and whilst we may seem to ask for a lot, what is a god's ransom worth? It is only because we recognise his might and importance do we make these requests, but we are only interested in dealin if he will not seek to twist our words against us.

Still, we should pay the goblins to check the wording and prepare a binding contract to this effect.
>>
No. 38321 ID: c2d0f1

As it's a Monkey Paw wish style deal, we need careful controls on what we ask for.

First, the accelerated time room:
The room has no ill effects on the occupants
The room has no effect on anything outside the room.
The laws of physics are otherwise unaltered
Beings within the room do not age, do not need to eat nor get hunger, to drink or get thirsty or to sleep or get tired.
Beings within the room are not affected in any way different to how they would be, save for the benefits of learning or training, by any time spent in the room.
It is impossible to suffer mental or physical harm in the room.
Can enter or leave the room at any point
Transitioning through the door way has no negative effects
Effect can be activated and deactivated by Armas at will
Is not detectable from outside the House

As a general rule, how about, 'Without restricting his normal freedom of action, make it impossible for Armas to suffer spiritual, mental or physical harm within the house."
>>
No. 38327 ID: 234c26

>>348120
If we try this and this is truly a cursed monkey paw scenario, we will regret it. It doesn't matter how many meticulous controls we try to put on the bargain, we will overlook something and will end up royally fucked over, all the more easily because you're asking him to work major alterations on our body, mind, and soul. Saying that we'll only do the deal if he agrees not to screw us is pointless; he will manage to do so somehow regardless.

The cursed monkey paw is not a "handle with care" item, it's a "do not touch" item. Until we have a much better handle on exactly who and what Amen is, I have to oppose using him for any kind of get-powerful-quick scheme.
>>
No. 38338 ID: f0e3ae

Well worded orders/contracts are not the right way to go about it. Look how well it worked out for smets and savoy (AFAIK something like "follow the orders of the bearers of my blood, if I am killed follow savoy").

This monkey paw is a sentient being, one much older, more powerful, and more experienced in twisting words and orders. And what about when he saved us with his blood but fully expected the initial backlash to render us braindead? (perfect master to follow, gives no orders so he can just assume whatever he wants)

We need to reach a rapport with him/her (why didn't we ask yet?). Lets lay it out flat to him/her and ask what s/he wants and either reach an agreement (we help free you, you serve us for X years faithfully and without misinterpreting things to our detriment) or just garner good faith (we are the coolest master ever, have fun OR we free you, no strings attached, now lets be friends).

Which of those paths we try to go down depends on what answers s/he has for us when we ask about what s/he is, wants, etc.

PS. did I call it or what when I said that the butler is gonna be something crazy dangerous compared to smets himself :P
>>
No. 38391 ID: b1f0e2

so....
How exactly are we going to survive a fight with doonie?
>>
No. 38407 ID: b1f0e2

someone before has suggested we bargin with the goblins to have armas train them in modern weapons in the nevernever. With the full ninja training armas got there we saw just how powerful that is. Armas could end up training all the goblins fully in all he knows about weapons in an instant (in the "real world").
It will save him hours a day, and it will give him a ridiculously large quantity of hours to trade the goblins, perhaps allowing more instant mastery from them.

It is a great idea, why haven't we persued it yet?
>>
No. 38418 ID: a76809

I do not comprehend why several posters seem certain that researcher you shot at was a Wizard-I mean, logically-would not a Wizard have some means of shrugging off bullets? So why run from them? And better, why would the wizard masquerade as a teacher at one of his own schools-it doesn't seem a sound conclusion to come to.
>>
No. 38421 ID: 234c26

>>348218
I suspect it is because a casual read of the post where we got the target's information does not give the name of the person that we shot at, but spends quite a bit of time talking about the wizard Dorjpalam Khubilai. It's easy to conflate our target with the name being tossed about while discussing him. It takes a rather careful read to realize that they are not the same person, in fact. That only becomes more true when one considers that at that point in the thread there was basically no indication of the scale of the threat that wizards actually pose, and there are a huge number of settings wherein a sniper rifle could easily take out even a powerful wizard if he wasn't expecting conflict.

Basically, the original introduction of the target did not make him and the wizard extremely obviously distinct individuals, so someone who hasn't been following the quest obsessively can easily confuse them. There's no assumption that he's masquerading, just a misunderstanding of what exactly was being talked about in the intro post.

I made this very mistake until the game had been running more than a month, simply because it was an easy thing to overlook and the wizard and his university haven't come up again in-quest as something important to immediately focus our attention on. The information needed to correct the misunderstanding is all on the wiki, or here in the dis, or (presumably) in IRC; there's been no cause to double-check that faulty assumption by reading only the main thread so far as I know.
>>
No. 38430 ID: cd63e9

I have a question for bob, would eating Doonongaes heart and or flesh have a similar negative effect to when we ate the demon arm?
>>
No. 38447 ID: a76809

>>348230
Only if you did not have sufficient 'pre-healing' stored in the form of copious magical meals that the poison in the flesh could slay you before you started integrating the magics of the Doonongaes.
>>
No. 38448 ID: 835a2d

>>348247
Hm...

Note to self - come up with a dessert that incorporates the Doon.
>>
No. 38449 ID: cd63e9

or to be on the safe side buy a charm against poison from the goblins before hand.
>>
No. 38450 ID: 44766a

If we keep doing crazy shit like that mannequin we set up, are we going to get the Refuge in Audacity trait?
>>
No. 38485 ID: 234c26

All the character images have been deleted off the quest wiki page by someone or other, citing copyright violation. Was there an actual complaint of any kind that prompted this? If not, why do we care about having them on the wiki but not the imageboard? Could we avoid problems by throwing up a disclaimer saying that all the art is blatantly stolen and used solely for entertainment purposes which no one makes any money off of?
>>
No. 38488 ID: 383006

>>348285
That doesn't actually solve the actual copyright issue. You should just get some fanart drawn instead.
>>
No. 38489 ID: 234c26

>>348288
The fanart that people have produced for this in the vast majority of cases is not really suitable for character images. That's not to say that they can't in the future, obviously, but when we already have a giant pile of character images why duplicate effort?

As far as the actual copyright issue- is there an actual copyright issue? Why would any of the holders of the copyrights for those images give a crap that we're using them for some random minor internet game? And if they don't care, there is no problem. If we get a cease/desist email for a particular image we can take that one down; until then, why worry about it?

Beyond that, what is the legal distinction between having any given image hosted and accessible through the imageboard interface as opposed to through the wiki interface? Both are hosted on this website and used in support of the same entertainment activity, are they not? What makes it less copyright-friendly to put on the wiki page than it is to put on the quest in the first place? I'm no legal expert, but it seems to me that they're effectively identical uses from a logical standpoint.
>>
No. 38539 ID: b1f0e2

>>348249
OOOH! great idea. Refinement:

The goblins specifically knew to tell us that doonie is weak to cold... they know about doonie.

So why buy a generic anti poison charm when you can buy a specific antivenum that ONLY works against doonies poison. Be it a charm, injection, whatever.
>>
No. 38602 ID: c2d0f1
File 130900904295.jpg - (54.69KB , 700x1000 , crown chakra.jpg )
38602

And another version
>>
No. 38604 ID: c2d0f1
File 130900911456.jpg - (52.12KB , 700x1000 , crown chakra orange.jpg )
38604

And an orange one
>>
No. 38617 ID: c2d0f1
File 130903118384.png - (680.91KB , 1500x675 , Sacral Chakra II.png )
38617

And the sacral chakra
>>
No. 38619 ID: b1f0e2

>>348417
I love the tie and women...
>>
No. 38621 ID: 41616d

very nice. I especially like the tie.
>>
No. 38622 ID: b1f0e2

you know, this isn't the first fanart with an awesome tie...

That cinches it. New subquest: Get a magic tie!

Now, at first I was thinking gold thread... but only organics hold magic well.
Silk then? Is there anything stronger? Maybe silk reinforced with kevlar (we don't want it to tear and be ruined); can have some gold thread too for flair... maybe for runes?
Now how to get it enchanted though... And with what enchantment... (to begin with, obviously the tie must become our most powerful magical artifact)

The obvious enchantment would be to have it fly out and catch bullets. although this is kinda boring...
mmm, I wonder if we can get an enchantment that to begin with does nothing EXCEPT for feed on sources of magic to grow stronger and maybe has some directions to how the power should be used as it is acquired.
It mustn't be blood, that will compete with the keihas...

Ooh, how about fast travel enchantment? like a shadow step thing?
>>
No. 38625 ID: c2d0f1
File 130904019871.png - (828.63KB , 1600x900 , Sacral Chakra III.png )
38625

As Armas is remembering is threesome with the elf and the vampire here (in a somewhat exaggerated fashion), then their nature is reflected by the dragon fly and bats wings.

He's also got a little bit of a smile on his face, which is fair enough!
>>
No. 38629 ID: b1f0e2

>>348425
Nice improvements :P
If you don't mind me asking, what art program do you use?
>>
No. 38677 ID: 0d095c

I must ask. Wizards are nigh omnipotent badasses in the realm of their abilities right? What is the government (US, Russian, Whatever) stance on Wizards and their being so powerful?

By the way, Bob, I've been meaning to ask. This world is a lot like the World of Darkness. IS it the World of Darkness, or did you custom build a setting specifically for this quest?
>>
No. 38679 ID: a76809

>>38477
In order:
--Yes, Wizards are Big Deals in this setting-not to be confused with Practitioners, what most people think of when they think mages, who have a much weaker power, limited to a particular field (fire magic, mind magic, what have you), while Wizards can do pretty much whatever kind of magic they want-and the mechanisms by which magic functions differs between the two classes.
--In general, most post-industrial nations pay a wizard to be their official representative-in exchange for the pay, and having said nation at their back if they have to squabble with other Wizards in the nation, they have to abide by certain rules. Not all Wizards like this setup-and many in third world countries just do whatever the fuck they want-because they can. However, in most cases any given area will have a Government Sponsored Wizard, whose presence acts as a M.A.D. against other Wizards getting uppity, if that makes sense.
--This is not the WoD, nor in fact have I read the books for that setting-I made the setting up, with some borrowing from other works.
>>
No. 38681 ID: 0d095c

>>348479
Kidoki. That makes sense. And okay. I haven't read the WOD either, which is why I was asking. It just seemed similar.
>>
No. 38702 ID: b1f0e2

>>348479
Now that the boat completely sailed on that plan...

was the plan I hatched a while back to have armas become a wizard at all viable?
That is, deal with courts / goblins / local wizard to sell off the nevernever strikes and whatever else they may require (say, a magic bond to serve the local wizard for X years) where they take X strikes and then strip armas of his magic powers (since you can't become a wizard if you have any) and then make sure he does become on on the next strike? or at least improve his chances of becoming one rather then spontaneous combustion?

Actually I didn't realize wizards are so powerful, wouldn't the local wizard have been able to do it all by himself if we provided him enough? say, killed his enemies in the lake, have him intercept a bunch of strikes. who knows how many strikes, serve him for X years, etc.
>>
No. 38719 ID: ba6280

Can we sell Amen to the goblins?

I'd rather have whatever (hopefully bitching) boon they would give us that will certainly pay off, instead of a limited genie who really wants to ruin our/everyone's shit.

Also I think they would be better at dealing with him than we are.
>>
No. 38727 ID: a76809

>>348502
Nope.
Think of it like this: A person who qualifies to become a wizard is, from a magical standpoint, comparable to perfectly pure water. Once you have added anything to the water (water soluble materials, that is), it is practically impossible to restore the water to its pure state-it would be far easier to just get a new cup of water.

Since the analogy is relating people's souls to water... getting a new cup is not really an option.

Hopefully that makes it more clear why Armas will not become a Wizard.

And yes, Dorjpalam could have solved your Magic Strike issue on his own.

>>348519
If you want to sell your rifle to them with him as a package deal, yes-but Just Amen? No. The moment that blood leaves the rifle, it leaves the limbo state where it technically qualifies as alive-which would Mean the last of Sisuthros's line, and his blood-would no longer bind Amen.

In case you had not picked up on it-that would be bad.
>>
No. 38728 ID: 200415

>>348527
Fuck. Well Keihäs is so awesome I doubt we'll be willing to part with it just to ditch the doom genie of terror.
>>
No. 38736 ID: b1f0e2

>>348527
that did seem very bad... for the vampires.
Whether it is bad for us is something to find out. We could negotiate with Amen for her freedom...
>>
No. 38737 ID: b1f0e2

>>348527
also, good job of avoiding ever saying "his" or "her" in regards to amen, so that we still don't know.
>>
No. 38756 ID: c2d0f1

“It was a great trip, shame you couldn't join us.”

“Anything special? Well, there were some highs and lows – I wouldn't spread my name around too much in Russia, if you know what I mean. But on the upside, Crazy and I – you remember Crazy right, he's with us now – Crazy and I made a new drinking buddy. Man, that was a wild ride. There's nothing like a properly Wizardly bender. Started off with mortal stuff - you know they brew some good shit back there in the Baltics, but it didn't quite hit the spot, if you get my meaning. It was then that we went after the proper booze.”

Wolf whistle.

“Whoa after we hit the special mead, the fun we had those long long nights.”

A smacking sound,

“What, you hit me, you fucking hit me, what the fuck did I say?”

A pause. “Hey, what are you looking at me like that for.”

Wipes fingers on cut cheekbone, looks at it, “Oh, yeah, the golden blood thing.”

A cough.

“Well, technically, I think that was the ambrosia.
Or was it the nectar
Or perhaps the soma.
No, definitely the Ambrosia.
I blacked out around that point.
… It was either before or after the nectar, I'm sure. Man, Bacchus knows how to fix a brew.”

Shoulders shrug.

“What?”
>>
No. 38774 ID: b1f0e2

>>348556
i am not sure i understand most of this.
Who is saying what?
>>
No. 38793 ID: c2d0f1

>>348574
It's Armas' side of the conversation with Camella when he rolls back in from his road trip, still drunk.
>>
No. 38798 ID: b1f0e2

am i the only one who noticed horrible things happen to armas every time he drinks?
>>
No. 38893 ID: 81f32a

Since you ungrateful assholes don't read the logs I have so thoughtfully edited for you, I'll just post unedited text.

Just Ctrf+f for "TheBeardiestBob"
Sometimes Bob changes his nick, so be ready for that.

also search for "MrazyCan"/"CrazyMan" and "White_Sapient"


Read this and the previous logs I made and don't make fool out of yourself by making wrong assumptions which have long been made been clear.

http://www.mediafire.com/?sp215r57w38zl3l
>>
No. 38926 ID: a76809

>>348693
I don't think blanket labeling people 'ungrateful assholes' will make them inclined to read what you worked on-or indeed, do anything you ask. Perhaps courtesy would be a viable alternative?
>>
No. 38930 ID: a5a1cd

>>348693
I have read every log linked in this thread or the quest proper.

>>348726
Bob, it's been a while since I asked >>348101 and I suspect you may have missed it; could I get answers for those questions, please?
>>
No. 38932 ID: a5a1cd

>>348693
By the way, best part of that log so far:

[03:43] <TheBeardiestBob> Grail, I see a SLIGHT problem with your Savoy assessment
[03:43] <Grail> Oh god
[03:43] <TheBeardiestBob> you are operating under the assumption that normal body mechanics can be applied to a Demonic arm.
[03:43] <Grail> Slight problems turn into major problems
[03:44] <TheBeardiestBob> So....
[03:44] <TheBeardiestBob> the whole collarbone thing? Sure it will HURT... but the arm will still function just fine. Especially since the function you observed was automated.
[03:45] <Grail> Well if he does move it it's causing the bones to grind together
01[03:45] <Dkay_> but it should hurt Savoy if it moves, right?
[03:45] <InsufferableMystic> I kinda guess that, the arm probably has a bit of a mind of it's own
[03:45] <Grail> tearing at whatever is inbetween the two arms
[03:45] <Grail> bomes*
[03:45] <Grail> bones*
01[03:46] <Dkay_> I hope by cutting it off we will not have a loose hand trying to murder us a-la Blood (the video game)
[03:46] <Grail> If we lose a limb we are getting a goblin crafted one
[03:47] <TheBeardiestBob> It will hurt Savoy sure-but the arm's 'Arrow Charm' like abilities are AUTOMATED
[03:47] <Grail> And we can probably store a spirit in one.
[03:47] <TheBeardiestBob> which is why you should cut of your dick....
[03:47] <TheBeardiestBob> and graft this arm in its place
01[03:48] <Dkay_> BEST PLAN EVER
[03:48] <Grail> Wiping your ass has never been so easy
[03:48] <TheBeardiestBob> that way, if a collarbone gets fucked up, you can CHOOSE to do nothing-but the arm keeps doing it's shit.
[03:48] <TheBeardiestBob> ...How would pissing work?
[03:48] <Grail> It has holes for shooting bullets through the fingers
01[03:48] <Dkay_> DEMON ARM, I AINT GOT TO EXPLAIN SHIT
[03:48] <TheBeardiestBob> would it just be the demon hand opens up like a magician doing a trick and just dumps handfuls of piss in the toilet?
[03:48] <Grail> I assume we would have a five hole urination mechanism built in
[03:48] <TheBeardiestBob> What would you even say if you were in the urinal next to him?
[03:49] <Grail> Offer to shake his hand
01[03:49] <Dkay_> I wouldn't
[03:49] <TheBeardiestBob> and what if Armas' hand dick grabs your dick-what do you DO?
[03:49] <Grail> Gay demonic armdick tugjub
[03:49] <TheBeardiestBob> Do you just say 'hey, stop shaking my dick with your arm dick?'
[03:49] <Grail> Never did I think I would get to say those words
01[03:50] <Dkay_> That is something that Armas' dick-hand would do
>>
No. 38964 ID: 43f5a7

>>348693
Why should I give half a shit about anything you say when all you do is insult us and act high and mighty when offering something of middling value?
>>
No. 38978 ID: a76809

So yes, specific luck enchantments are possible-say, something that would only manifest as a bonus to-hit with a given type of weapon, or what have you.

Actually, Armas is turning out pretty much how I expected.

Armas has run into a great deal of magical weapons because most of those in the criminal underworld-the place he's been exposed to it-prefer weapons over charms, because you can't really have a disposable magic weapon. Charms are not rarer than magic weapons.
>>
No. 38993 ID: cd63e9

i'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but what file types does this site take? I've been trying to upload a piece of fan art for a while now and i keep getting a that type of file is now allowed error.
>>
No. 39005 ID: 43f5a7

>>348793

>Supported file types are: GIF, JPG, MP3, PNG, SWF
>>
No. 39009 ID: cd63e9

>>348805
thank you.
>>
No. 39022 ID: a5a1cd

>>348778
>So yes, specific luck enchantments are possible-say, something that would only manifest as a bonus to-hit with a given type of weapon, or what have you.
I dream of being protected by luck. I want bugs flying into the face of people who try to snipe us, cell phones going off when people are trying to ambush us, gravel being just a little too loose under the feet of people swinging for us in melee, cars blowing tires when they're in hot pursuit of us, guns jamming or misfiring when bullets would fly in our direction. We should spontaneously decide to leave buildings just before bombs go off, and vary our routine on a whim the day that everything would have gone horribly wrong. I want our enemies' shoes to come untied, their vehicles to run out of gas, their throats to catch with sudden attacks of the hiccups.

And when people curse the fact that they were better than us and we would be dead if not for some completely fucking random twists of fortune, we walk away with a massive trollface grin.

I imagine that this would be rather expensive, particularly at a level where it would be any kind of reliable protection, but one day I hope we will be able to afford it and it will be awesome.
>>
No. 39035 ID: b1f0e2

I am surprised so many people are adamant about saving the children. I am normally the crusading paladin type but it seems out of character for Armas as established thus far.

Letting it just get away with the children while we leave is the easiest solution, and prevents any further soul damage in our unstable state.

And of course, waiting for it to be alone with the children to kill all 3 and then dispose the corpses via keihas...

Of course big red will turn on Armas if he ever did that, so would camella if she found out... mmm, quite interesting. Armas is the "Smart Evil" guy in a chaotic good party. its pretty lulzy.

Although I gotta admit I am not averse to this new kinder armas.
>>
No. 39043 ID: cd63e9

everyone has things they will and will not tolerate, often with little logic consistency. Armas will kill civilians if it suites his needs, but that does not mean he will tolerate something killing children.
>>
No. 39045 ID: 1be251

Armas hasn't really changed. He's kind of a psychopath, but that doesn't mean reveling in murder or not caring completely. His ethics stems less from empathy and more from what he's been taught is right and wrong. Throw in his time in the army, and rationalization over the fact he believes he's become addicted to the hunt(the thrill of killing monsters being the reason stated in the first post as why he wanted to be a supernatural merc), and killing seemingly innocent people for a purpose becomes less of a problem, hence the cop. Killing people for no reason or killing children tends to rank up higher on cultural taboos, and he obviously has problems with those.

Very few people want to believe they've become a monster, and as such most will rationalize why they've done horrible things, and then set their limits past that, pointing to those things as the point where one has lost their humanity.
>>
No. 39223 ID: b1f0e2

ok... things to do.
1. We NEED to level up armas' feeding ability, this means eating more and more powerful supernatural entities... and over eating them.
This was not a good time, although we could have at least scarfed down the heart before feeding it to keihas. Something to do in the future.

2. We need to check if keihas leveled up again and now eats the meat and bones of anything supernatural (or natural) or if it just does so for shapeshifters and vampires. This means we need to touch it to some raw beef, as well as raw magic animal steak and see what happens.

3. It would be really really shitty if it feeds on armas due to an injury in battle (say, bleeding on it) or if its bullets start missing cause they are curving towards armas (due to having fed on his blood)... we need to figure a way to bind it to us so that:
a. It will never feed on us.
b. We can can control the level of its feeding on things (say, make it feed only on the blood and bones and leave us the meat to eat).
c. So we could siphon off powers from it for armas if needed...
d. So that if someone steals keihas from us we could track them or maybe even make it eat them. (if it gets the ability to eat something by touching its skin rather then blood... there is after all blood right under the skin, so close to the surface)
e. So that if someone steals keihas from us we do not lose amen. This is especially critical if we are in the mannor with amen when someone grabs keihas... amen could instant rewrite our minds, then get keihas back for us... we would then be its slaves... technically its bound to us but it rewrote us to order it to be free or even just order it to do whatever it want or to destroy keihas or whatever.
>>
No. 39224 ID: 43f5a7

>>349023
Excellent things to consider.

We could sell the story of this WHOLE TRIP to SM for this.
>>
No. 39225 ID: b1f0e2

btw... if we get the "make drinks we tasted ability"...

Bargin with goblins for a single ounce of donoongas flesh. Make a doonongas flesh smoothie with alcohol. Drink smoothy. Make a metric ton of the stuff and eat it / feed it to keihas for the lulz...

Honestly I don't see us getting such an ability without severe restrictions since its so game breaking. A limit on how much we can make a day and grigoir demanding that full amount... we could then substitute booze we buy at a store for some of it to allow us to create limited amounts of what we want?

Or you know what, maybe we will get it but it will be severely restricted.
>>
No. 39227 ID: b1f0e2

>>349025
actually i just thought of reasonable restriction for the ability...
1. Limit on quantity (level uppable).
2. When creating things with magic charge, the more magical the more of our daily limit it consumes. So if we can start with a keg of booze it would only be enough for an ounce shot of doonie smoothie or some other ratio.

We can still use it to make emergency molotov cocktails, or heck, drink a TINY bit of high octane gasoline (very small amount wouldn't kill you), we could make various poisons (ooh, will go awesome with being a ninja... especially if our shadow can make it too), we could even do the above mentioned doonie smoothies except getting a sizable enough amount to make a big difference in large enough to make a difference would take years because of the strong magic charge in it.

When we phrase the suggestion to griogoir, we should put it as making drinks for each other. He would summon for us a drink that he knows, we wouldn't know what it is gonna be and how it will kick. And vice versa.
>>
No. 39249 ID: 28e94e

>>349025
1. Acquire vodka with gold leaf in it
2. Drink the vodka
3. ???
4. PROFIT!!!
>>
No. 39250 ID: 28e94e

Oh, btw guys, I just finished a big cleanup of the weapon data on the wiki. Next time please try not to just copy-paste off Modern Firearms, it's really hard to read.
>>
No. 39264 ID: 43f5a7

Oh man we are getting so much meat from SM when we get back.

SO MUCH.
>>
No. 39276 ID: 1be251

>>349027
Savoy's ability is even more game breaking and he's a PC, though his players aren't very smart with it and he's trying to be a BBEG, so he might not have as many restrictions. Also not sure a wizard contract would ever operate under conditions like that, given that they work by being gifted a small specific bit of the nearly infinite capability wizard's possess. Leave it to Bob to come up with restrictions for things we get, unless we're actually talking about the base mechanisms of the power and inherent restrictions on it due to it's nature. More so, from my understanding, if we get the power from Grigori, he can't do it anymore unless he takes the power back or we die. If he dies, we would lose the power.
>>
No. 39286 ID: a5a1cd

>>349076
>More so, from my understanding, if we get the power from Grigori, he can't do it anymore unless he takes the power back or we die.
I have to ask... why is this? I mean, a wizard's powers are basically limitless, right? So he can, say, throw a fireball or throw fifty fireballs, no sweat either way. What difference does it make that someone else has been assigned the ability to throw some of them?
>>
No. 39289 ID: 1be251

>>349086
Well, a gun can fire one bullet or a hundred, but to let someone fire them you've got to give them the gun, not just some bullets. I think that's how it's defined. The wizard has to actually hand off the capability to the other person. They're not teaching you or unlocking the power in you, they're gifting their own, and as long as you have it, they can't. As such, wizard contract trump practitioner powers. They can take it back anytime they want too. Problem would be that if they did so and then gave it back, you'd have to spend a lunar cycle for the power to kick in again. But being wizards it's unlikely they'll need the specific power they handed off, able to use something else to do whatever.
>>
No. 39321 ID: a76809

>>349089
That.... actually works very well for an analogy.


OKAY-METAPHOR TIME

So-Practitioners are casual gun owners-they have one piece, MAYBE two, and the secondary piece is usually a supplement to their existing weapon. So, they can be relatively versatile, BUT-

Wizards are the Military. They have the best toys, and they have a shitton of them. A Wizard contract is essentially enlisting-you get your military-grade weapon, in exchange for not pissing off the military (Wizard) While the wizard is now short that one weapon-they are the goddamn military, they have a few extra.



Does... that make it more clear?
>>
No. 39344 ID: a5a1cd

>>349121
That analogy is clear, yes.

I think my original bit of dissonance was because I conflated the amount of power available with the ability to use that power in a flexible and controlled fashion without significant focus or thought.
>>
No. 39812 ID: 7fd095

01[21:10] <Alratan> [20:58] <Alratan> so, where a shirt and gloves
01[21:10] <Alratan> [20:58] <Alratan> *wear
01[21:10] <Alratan> [20:58] <Alratan> and shdow bro's arm can sit in the shaodow inside them
01[21:10] <Alratan> [20:59] <Alratan> then, when our arm gorws, it's growing into and along the matrix set by the shadow
[21:13] <TheBeardiestBob> I saw that yes-did you see my caution it would have limited staying power until the shadow soul recovers?
01[21:14] <Alratan> no
01[21:14] <Alratan> that was everything until I returned
01[21:14] <Alratan> sorry, you returned
01[21:15] <Alratan> By staying power, do you mean, it can't manifest for that long
[21:15] <TheBeardiestBob> correct
01[21:15] <Alratan> or it can't exert much strength
01[21:15] <Alratan> ok
01[21:16] <Alratan> better than nothing though, in a pinch
[21:16] <TheBeardiestBob> it will weaken and develop shadow pain before ten minutes have passed, as of right now. And that's with you NOT trying to touch magical objects not belonging to you with said shadowarm
01[21:18] <Alratan> best used for things that can be rapidly deactivated then
01[21:18] <Alratan> like opening doors whilst running away
01[21:18] <Alratan> as that takes seconds
[21:18] <TheBeardiestBob> That works
01[21:19] <Alratan> or quick drawing and shooting and then stowing the gun, as that's also very quick
[21:19] <TheBeardiestBob> consider that while keeping it inside clothes like that you will visibly have no shadow-so unless you want everyone and their mother to know you have an ensouled shadow, I'd be cautious in it's application
01[21:19] <Alratan> can we get something else to cast a shadow for us?
[21:20] <TheBeardiestBob> having the shadow manipulate the door's shadow rather than manipulate and empty sleeve and glove for a faux arm is USUALLY-not always-preferable, in energy consumption and discretion.
[21:20] <TheBeardiestBob> How do you picture that working?
01[21:20] <Alratan> not sure
01[21:20] <Alratan> some form of semi-magic coat that has its own shadow
01[21:20] <Alratan> perhaps
01[21:21] <Alratan> probably not worth investing in
01[21:21] <Alratan> if we're operating at night, the lack of shadow is less of a problem
01[21:21] <Alratan> so we may want to stick with night operations
01[21:22] <Alratan> if we ever need to shoot at range someone, then lining up a shot with Keihas should take less than 10 mins
[21:22] <TheBeardiestBob> A coat that forcibly casts a shadow of the user IS something you could get-you'd need a personalized one to make sure it doesn't draw your soul shadow into said forcibly cast shadow, but it could be gained.
[21:23] <TheBeardiestBob> so it would be MONEY
01[21:23] <Alratan> I'm not sure if it's generally useful
01[21:23] <Alratan> after we recover the arm
[21:23] <TheBeardiestBob> but it would let you be a lot more creative using your shadowbro-even in daylight-without revealing the mechanisms involved in what you are doing.
01[21:24] <Alratan> that's true
[21:24] <TheBeardiestBob> since then you could-for example-stand on the edge of a big shadowed hanger, your foot the only thing touching the shadow, otherwise standing in the sun. Your shadow could move from it's passive state to suffusing itself through massive hanger shadow, since it qualifies as making contact with you. Anyone looking at you that ISN'T a shadowmage or soulmage
01[21:24] <Alratan> as we could send shadow bro off
[21:25] <TheBeardiestBob> will have NO IDEA you now own that mass of shadow, as with what they see your shadow's still at your feet like normal
[21:25] <TheBeardiestBob> couldn't send shadowbro off just yet-can't leave your feet unless you are actively standing in a shadow-and then it can only traverse that shadow's coverage
01[21:26] <Alratan> ah, what I was thinkiing was this
01[21:26] <Alratan> you stand in the light, with the tip of your coat enforced shadow touching another shadow
01[21:26] <Alratan> ShadowBro uses that as a bridge
[21:27] <TheBeardiestBob> That works-it's any shadow that you touch-even after Shadowbro moves. Normally this means you have to stand on it-but when wearing an object that casts an independent shadow, that shadow is considered part of you, for shadowbro
>>
No. 39821 ID: 02de21

>>349612
>[21:22] <TheBeardiestBob> A coat that forcibly casts a shadow of the user IS something you could get-you'd need a personalized one to make sure it doesn't draw your soul shadow into said forcibly cast shadow, but it could be gained.
>[21:23] <TheBeardiestBob> so it would be MONEY
Alternately, could we just buy a second shadow from the goblins (or another friendly supernatural vendor) rather than depending upon an external item? They can buy and sell anything, so presumably shadows are on the list. That would remain effective no matter what we wear. Of course, it would also doubtless be expensive.

I do like this concept, though. It would help maximize our potential for secrecy and trollfacing.


On unrelated topics, why is everyone saying that the Valkonen style is so very perfect for Armas? The only thing I see about it that makes it "perfect" is that it's Winter powered when we've got a Winter bloodline ability unused. Have I missed something that would make it otherwise such a wonderful fit for him?
>>
No. 39822 ID: 1be251

>>349621
http://www.martial-forums.com/forums/other-martial-arts/1746-kas-pin-martial-art-finland.html

Fighting in the dark. Utilizing your environment. Spears, knives, swords, and while it isn't in the link I posted, rifle+bayonet. Plus the fact that it's a Finnish based winter aligned martial art style.
>>
No. 39836 ID: f1ff28

A question:
if we learn the Valkonen style will that mean we will use our winter bloodline?
I like their style and all but I am not sure if I want to use up our free slot on that.

I remember someone talking about Eihenjar powers, which give superhuman abiliyies to the user at the cost of rapidly consumning nutrients. It would work perfectly with our Maori bloodline and if we keep upgrading them relatively at the same rate we could have powers like those mammon promised us without any cost.
>>
No. 39840 ID: b1f0e2

>The Jutun theory
From IRC: Those giants with ice powers are just humans who practiced magical martial art for generations. Apparently magic causes lamarkian genetics.
>>
No. 39841 ID: a76809

>>349636
Yes, it would take your winter bloodline.

There is however a work around that would let you learn of their style AND retain the Einherjar option.
>>
No. 39843 ID: f1ff28

A workaround?
That would be perfect...

I guess this is some kind of puzzle we need to solve but which we will ultimately fail to do.
Any hints on how we could achieve both options?
>>
No. 39847 ID: a76809

>>349643
I have seen at least one poster postulate exactly the method needed for said work around on IRC-I do not recall who it was, but I know the idea is about.

Beyond that I only wish you luck.
>>
No. 39849 ID: 1be251

So, I went through my logs and found the only five things suggested that could possibly get us both. I'll list them, though one of them stands out as most likely.

1) Marry into the family. Not sure how this would work, but fucking magic, amiright?
2) Learn the style through chakras.
3) Split our bloodlines into winter shadow, summer flesh. Not actually sure how this would let us get both, but listing all possibilities
4) Learn the style through shadowbro, and learn Einherjar through flesh
5) Nom on some delicious bloodline blood

Four seems most likely. Five seems kind of risky, as eating the bloodline blood might do magic shenanigans and lock our potential trait, but it might help reinforce four if we nom on some Eihenjar blood. Everything else seems unlikely, but I wanted to list anything that was brought up in public chat that might be what bob was talking about, since we don't actually understand full mechanics of this stuff.
>>
No. 39850 ID: a76809

>>349649
The mechanism I am thinking of (which is not to say its the only way to achieve it) is within the list here.
>>
No. 39874 ID: ac6c03

349650
>> 4) Learn the style through shadowbro, and learn Einherjar through flesh
>>two halves of a soul
>>two "souls"
>>two soul abilities
THIS SHOULD WORK
>>
No. 39888 ID: b74db8

#4 Seems to be the most likely
#2 Is also possible

#5 Is always an option but the one we can't follow. There is no way we could eat any of these people even if we wanted to (which I dont)


While the first option is unlikely to be the workaround for getting both powers, it raises the question how will we convince them to teach us their style. Marrying into the family might be a way ... but to tell you the trut I do not want that. I am sure there can be other ways.
>>
No. 39889 ID: a4093d

Can someone explain me what Einherjar is and how that power is supposed to work?
>>
No. 39890 ID: a76809

>>349689
I got a way to explain that without giving away too much-

Okay, you've heard those stories of little old grandmas lifting cars off of grandkids and whatnot, right? Muscle recruitment, and all that? Think of something that gave you that, but broke your body in a different way than 'puny bones could not handle 100% muscle output) Kind of a combat 'five minutes to the end of the episode' panic button ability, heavily melee oriented-which is frequently the range a panic button is pressed at.
>>
No. 39891 ID: a4093d

Oh, thanks.

And I guess with sufficiently strong Maori regeneration power we could extend its use from 5 minutes to several hours, right? Or even indeffinately if we keep steady supply of supernatutal snacks (meat jerky, blood vials)?
>>
No. 39894 ID: 1be251

>>349691
Sounds right. Not sure if Bob forgot he said this, but quite some time ago, while we were still fighting Doony actually, he told us in IRC he figured how the power was going to work. And that it worked by actively breaking down the body to go beyond even that panic button capabilities.

>>349688
Well, five is less about actually eating them, as the fact that they can heal non-limb loss levels, so we might potentially find a way to nom some blood. Still, having half a soul learn one thing and the other half another seems most likely.
>>
No. 39927 ID: b1f0e2

This is going back to an older issue discussed, but it just became pertinent with armas suggesting to teach this family his stealth arts.

The nature of armas' sneaking is based on masking movement and avoiding attention. It requires armas to read attention. I contended that armas has learned to practice some simply magic ability to read attention. That if armas wants to "teach" the skill he needs to teach that magic ability and the bare basics and then just say "I taught you what you need to know, now you just needs decades of practice". Since its not plausible for people to master this art, it makes more sense to just learn to sense to attention. It allows no sneaking but provides an interesting utility.

There were two issues:
1. Was sensing attention taught first during a short duration (say, a few months), then based on it sneaking was taught for the rest of the years spent in nevernever. Or is sensing attention deeply intertwined with sneaking and it would take decades of learning both simultaneously to learn and master.

2. Does sensing attention really work via magic, is it really some sort of learn-able "spell" or spell like effect or just learning to read expressions, eyes, etc. I just realize the best evidence to it being a spell is that during the smets job, just before being shot by a sniper rifle, armas could sense human attention being singularly locked on him... he couldn't see the sniper yet he knew the sniper was human, there, and had attention it. This btw is the best sale for the spell, it lets you know when you are about to be ambushed or sniped so you can spring into action and surprise your attacker instead.
>>
No. 39928 ID: b1f0e2

>>349727
wow, only 216 posts to the next palindrome.
>>
No. 39948 ID: 02de21

>>349727
>just before being shot by a sniper rifle, armas could sense human attention
I believe that's not a "spell". By in-game logic it's more having a very, very honed sixth sense, the thing that lets you know when someone's staring at you normally. Some people have these in real life, or at least feel like they do at times.

Sure, it's supernatural on some level- but supernatural in the same way that tons of stuff in the Guns for Hire universe basically becomes supernatural if you get ridiculously good at it.

>>349674
All right, then let me ask this:
If we later realign our chakras and have them support a different spell than Shadowbro, pulling our soul back into our body... what will happen to our skills? We'd have two halves of a soul, each with a complete set of skills. Would we then effectively have two bloodline abilities- or would something happen that would weaken or rob us of one or both?

>>349691
As our Summer powers get stronger, I suspect that we could keep it going for a very, very long time as long as we pause to tear the hearts from slain foes and devour them on the go. They're like cannibal spinach.
>>
No. 39951 ID: 1be251

>>349748
>All right, then let me ask this:
If we later realign our chakras and have them support a different spell than Shadowbro, pulling our soul back into our body... what will happen to our skills? We'd have two halves of a soul, each with a complete set of skills. Would we then effectively have two bloodline abilities- or would something happen that would weaken or rob us of one or both?

Switching Chakras doesn't get rid of Shadowbro, it weakens the hell out of him. One of the things that was discussed for his potential was once our soul gets strong enough, we could switch our Chakras to something else without taking too big a hit from his power. Shadowbro has half our soul. He's not a spell, he's half of what we are. He has no off switch.
>>
No. 39956 ID: 02de21

>>349751
>Switching Chakras doesn't get rid of Shadowbro, it weakens the hell out of him.
Ah. That was not entirely clear to me. I had thought that our chakras were what was keeping that half of our soul stable rather than having it be crazy suicidal and incredibly stupid to shove our soul outside of us.

>He has no off switch.
Oh? This does not follow from his not being a spell. He exists primarily because he's half of our soul- but what was moved out of our body once could logically be moved into it again, should the situation call for it. Admittedly not many situations would logically call for it, but at that point our soul could go back to being one piece, could it not? Or at least having both halves live in the same place, which would effectively be the same thing only we might have a split personality.

Though whether we'd be able to get his skills, I don't know. Shadowbro obviously has an independent mind from us, and we'd have to integrate it somehow. Actually, our communication with him is really shitty and we should make improving it a priority- with proper communication we could have gotten a full debrief on everything that happened while we were unconscious, because he was presumably watching the whole thing.
>>
No. 39962 ID: 5277a0

Alright, if we can split our winter powers in two and effectively have two bloodline powers .... wouldnt that logically mean that we can gain ANOTHER Maori bloodline power? Also to be learned by shadowbro as I suspect the regeneration power is a power completely left for the flesh.
>>
No. 39967 ID: 1be251

>>349762
No, because we already had a summer trait when our soul split. Both halves have it, even if it's not useful to Shadowbro.

>>349756
On the notion of an off witch, I asked Bob about it due to the shadow based power people fucking us up. The only way he goes inside us is if there's enough light for him to cast no shadow, and then he comes straight back out after. Kinda doubt our souls merge back together in this case. If we can meld them back together, that's less of an off-switch and more losing the power, by way of subsuming Shadowbro, which I don't think he'd like, having an independent mind.
>>
No. 39974 ID: 02de21

>>349767
>Both halves have it, even if it's not useful to Shadowbro.
It may not be useful to Shadowbro right now, but I'm sure he can learn how to exploit it eventually. Devouring others' shadows or even souls might be within the realm of eventual possibility for him.

>If we can meld them back together, that's less of an off-switch and more losing the power, by way of subsuming Shadowbro, which I don't think he'd like, having an independent mind.
His mind was originally created using our psyche as a template, wasn't it? We're willing to do all kinds of crazy shit for power. If we could learn how to pop our soul back together and then apart again like a button, using the points of unification for syching our minds and souls, I don't see much reason that he wouldn't go with it. It's not like it would somehow hurt or lessen him, any more than it would hurt or lessen us. Neither of us lacks reason to want to acquire the other's perspective on and perception of events, and I consider it highly desirable to ensure that Shadowbro doesn't experience too much personality drift from Armas (or vice versa, to see it from the other direction), lest they become less of a perfect team as the months and years pass.

Reading back to how we made Shadowbro in the first place- using our Chakras' energy to manipulate our soul- there's no reason that we wouldn't be able to conduct further manipulations, although we'd obviously want to be careful and only conduct experimentation when both halves of our soul are healthy and strong. Strengthening our mental and spiritual connection to our shadowsoul seems very good in my book, because that's likely to be a path to a much more complete version of survival than we'd have if we died right now.
>>
No. 39975 ID: 1be251

>>349774
Bob said that to devour shadows he has to become a shadowfiend, which requires him to have the other half of the soul. So, uh, not a good idea.

As for just popping it back together, would he take that risk while uncertain of whether it would work and knowing both of us are the kind of person to, if worse comes to worse during the merge, consume the others sense of self to survive? That's not a level of risk I think Armas or shadowbro would be cool with, and asking shadowbro to take that risk could cause problems.
>>
No. 39978 ID: 02de21

>>349775
>That's not a level of risk I think Armas or shadowbro would be cool with, and asking shadowbro to take that risk could cause problems.
Oh, come on. Armas has willingly done all kinds of crazy shit to himself- his soul is a shredded wreck because of the fact that he's utterly reckless when it comes to risking spiritual damage for power. As Shadowbro is based on Armas' psyche, as long as we aren't completely making shit up as we go along and have a reasonable expectation of being able to make things go decently for both of our mental halves I would expect him to go along with minimal hesitation.

>Bob said that to devour shadows he has to become a shadowfiend, which requires him to have the other half of the soul.
We could probably work something out. Somehow make our half-soul way larger than normal, stick parts of other souls on ours so that we have the required spiritual power, or perhaps put our physical body into hibernation and abandon it to become 100% shadow for a while, then return and reclaim the body later.

There's always a workaround if you have the will to look for it.
>>
No. 39997 ID: 66bf66

>Shadowbro's Maori bloodline trait
...Er, was my supposition that Shadowbro's capability to draw energy from other shadows stems from Armas' Maori bloodline trait wrong, and that capability stems from an inherent trait of Soul Shadows? It seemed rather obvious to me, considering that:
-shadows have NeverNever gates within them
-the NeverNever was described as a 'multidimensional living world'
-Shadowbro somehow increased his recovery time while inhabiting shadows it didn't normally inhabit.

As the energies of the NeverNever probably leak through into shadows through the NeverNever gates apparently inbuilt into shadows, and the energies of the NeverNever are the life of a world, Shadowbro could eat them to heal himself, via his Maori bloodline trait.

Also, tangentially, could Armas really ruin someone's day by ripping open the NeverNever gates within their shadows? Those gates are probably not very big, but perhaps things happening to their shadows would reflect onto their body, and therefore explode them (if they have some magic saturation going on) or at least, make them panic for a while as they are forced to find a way to channel the energies out of themselves. Perhaps, also, leaving themselves open for an attack?

Probably too dangerous of an experiment to conduct currently, considering the state of Armas' soul. But, maybe, an hypothesis to test later, when a nice big threat of a successful NeverNever-opening within someone is desired?

All of the above are questions I would like for Bob to answer, if it were possible within the constraints of plot neccessity.
>>
No. 39999 ID: a76809

>>349797
And we have a winner-

Because of the format your Summer ability took-ie, imprinted in your soul-it is manifested in any fragment of your soul-hence why having shadowbro learn different things that you would only let you pick up one extra slot for a magical ability, not two.

And consider-if Armas was not sure his own mind would survive being absorbed by another Armas-even if it was another 'him' do you think he would do it?
>>
No. 40002 ID: 02de21

>>349799
>And consider-if Armas was not sure his own mind would survive being absorbed by another Armas-even if it was another 'him' do you think he would do it?
Yes.

Armas loves taking risks, even completely unnecessary ones. He mouths off to master vampires, rescues kids in danger, lets unknown and extremely dangerous people with known and very deadly enemies sleep in his apartment, and consumes demonic arms with totally unknown traits and side effects. Hell, he's a supernatural mercenary when he could have lived a quiet life; every job he takes is a new chance to die forgotten and unmourned. This is just another way to risk death in pursuit of power and knowledge.

Now, I'm not going to argue that he wouldn't make every effort to stack the deck in his favor before going ahead with something like that, particularly when he's under no time pressure. Of course he would only go forward with it if he thought it would work. But he would be willing to hit the go button at "pretty sure" rather than "certain".
>>
No. 40012 ID: 1be251

>And consider-if Armas was not sure his own mind would survive being absorbed by another Armas-even if it was another 'him' do you think he would do it?

I think the fact that it's another him that makes it less likely. Someone else he can gamble they have other ways to screw with it that he can take advantage, or that he can manipulate or outsmart. Himself? And for the moment a version that's been considerably less beat-up? No goddamn way, because he'll doubt whether he has the full picture, because he never gives anyone else the full picture.
>>
No. 40032 ID: 5ce55e

*fistclench*
>>
No. 40033 ID: 5ce55e

Why not just some ritual devouring of live creatures then?

Tie it down, make it cast a nice shadow by putting the lights at the right places, begin feast.
Shadowbrow chomps into their shadow in unison with you, not just following you as a normal shadow would but actively working in unison with you.

Eat it down to the very last morsel while still in the light and keep it alive as long as possible.

Thank you for the meal.

I think shadowbrow would get somn out of that, especially if te other guy had a soulshadow of some sort as well...

hmmmm
couldn't we awaken the targets shadow before doing the ritual nomming? Just twinge their chakras a little bit and give up a tiny sliver of shadowbro to push them in the right direction.
Then you eat them and get it back plus more.
We should try this.
And also learn how to force someones chakra open.
(maybe a tiny drop of Amen blood and have him force it open right before the ritual nomming?)
>>
No. 40047 ID: b1f0e2

Ok so... armas maori bloodline trait involved a goddess eat a lot of his soul and then fill the wholes with some of hers.
Armas' soul is now considered divine for purpose of effects (ex: the healing he was receiving wasn't working cause she treated him as human instead of divine).

Now, armas currently has half a soul in his body and half a soul in his shadow... could those two halves each heal to a full soul? Perhaps another encounter with waitiri?
>>
No. 40048 ID: b1f0e2

>>349748
I put "spell" in parenthesis for a reason. He isn't standing there casting an incantation, but there is magic involved.
>>
No. 40050 ID: 1be251

>>349848
No, there isn't magic. About the only bit of non-mundane bit that might be there is supernatural cues that he's being watched being subconsciously picked up on. It's not some special power. It's being able to discern the difference between being observed and not observed, having focused on the differences between the two through decades of training.
>>
No. 40076 ID: 28e94e
File 131086716431.jpg - (37.19KB , 362x480 , ManAgainstWeasel.jpg )
40076

>losing an eye and a foot to a weasel
>>
No. 40096 ID: b1f0e2

>>349850
>No, there isn't magic.
He can tell:
1. The species of the watcher.
2. The level of attention.
3. When a sniper which is not visible to him is looking at him through a scope.

How is that not magic?
>>
No. 40099 ID: 02de21

>>349896
It's paying attention to a sense that most people normally don't. Like one can theoretically determine all kinds of things about someone else from hearing their footsteps- weight, age, sex, even personality and mood- with a high level of accuracy. But most people don't, because there's no need or reason to develop their sense of hearing that finely.

Similarly, Armas has honed his sixth sense- the thing that gives people the vague feeling that someone is staring at them- until it can give him far more accurate and detailed information than most people would dream is possible. It's a remarkable achievement, but not actually magic.

That's my understanding of the situation, anyway.
>>
No. 40105 ID: b1f0e2

>>349899
even if every person in the world has such a sense and doesn't use it, the sense itself is magic sense.
That is like saying performing a ritual that causes magic to happen is not magic because its using an ability every human has but doesn't know how to use.
>>
No. 40106 ID: 1be251

>>349905
No, it's more like being as flexible as a contortionist when most people can't even do a split. Most people not having honed their ability to do something doesn't make having done so magic.
>>
No. 40128 ID: c2a159

Dart666if we get a spirit like BC bear, put our chakras to physical augmentation and get the Einherjar could we learn the style?
TheBeardiestBobyou can learn it either way-and either way you wouldn't be as effective as an actual Valkonen
Dart666even with all that buff
TheBeardiestBobbecause that is all 'boost for x time' while they get to perform at that level forever
Dart666i thought chakras and the spirit were permanent
TheBeardiestBobchakra sure-until you reassign it at least. But what has lead you to believe a spirit does not have a giving point where it's power wanes?
Dart666BC never seem like less than superstrong
TheBeardiestBobDid you ever see him exerting it for a prolonged period of time?
Dart666i see
Dart666Is there someway Armas could gain permanent superhuman capabilities?
TheBeardiestBobHm... Getting bitten by a Vampire WOULD have worked before your Divine soul and Amen Blood contamination-now you can't be turned. I suppose if he got turned into a Loup Garou-his bodies durable enough being bitten wouldn't rip him apart as is the case for most who are bit and not born as them. The French Werewolves are quite powerful
TheBeardiestBobOr did you mean while still looking human?
Dart666actually i was considering becoming a vampire or a werewolf
Dart666could Labombard turn Armas?
TheBeardiestBobWell, I suppose you could make a Wizard, Divine, Demonic, Angelic or Draconic contract for superhuman physical capacity in a specific field.
Dart666specific field?
TheBeardiestBobHe would be rather heavily disinclined to-the blood carries a heavy curse that erodes at sanity and he is not motivated to give that to others.
TheBeardiestBobAs in-being exceptionally strong and fast, versus exceptionally durable.
Dart666is the madness inevitable?
TheBeardiestBobkinda-Loups are superwerewolves-the extra power comes at a price
Dart666and a normal werewolf?
TheBeardiestBobwould not get any more of a boost than an Einherjar would in terms of physical performance
Dart666would it be permanent?
TheBeardiestBobnormal werewolf? No, they turn on clocks until they get old enough to control it, Loups can turn whenever
Dart666could a wizard contract be used against the madness?
TheBeardiestBobIt would be a bit of a relative waste of a contract but yes
Dart666what if it was against any harmful mental influences?
TheBeardiestBobI suppose you could make a cost effective mental omni-ward of some form as the contract control for the Loup garou stuff. Only problem is Loup Garous are a Summer bloodline
TheBeardiestBob'swhat powers their INSANE regeneration
Dart666what does that mean for Armas?
Dart666would he lose his bloodline?
TheBeardiestBobIt means he might have some severe complications as the Loup Garou blood attempts to overrite his Maori Summer aspect.
Dart666would there be a way to fix it?
TheBeardiestBobI guess if you contracted a wizard, dragon or god to protect you during the event-would not come cheap at all.
Dart666could Amen do it?
TheBeardiestBobYou owuld actually need to undo at least one of the bindings placed on him over the millennia for him to manage it.
TheBeardiestBobprobably more-one is an absolute best-case scenario
Dart666is there any other way of going about, other type of creature he could become or a empowering ritual he could do?
TheBeardiestBobnope, that about covered it
Dart666would Mamon Device be enough of a payment?
TheBeardiestBobmaybe-depends who you go to, how you sell it. Won't work with all options
Dart666could Whaitiri do it?
TheBeardiestBobnaw
Dart666Ogrimir?
TheBeardiestBobyeah
Dart666would be hard to convince him?
Dart666he did say he wouldn't let Armas be unmade
TheBeardiestBobhe would be hard to convince
>>
No. 40148 ID: 02de21

>>/quest/327050
>Einrik postulates that the Living Einherjar are the larval form of the deceased kind commonly found in legends, and that by using their ability to the point their body can no longer sustain life is what triggers the evolution into a Spectral Einherjar.

Given that we know Armas might be able to persist after death in the form of Shadowbro, what would happen if he gained the Einherjar ability and subsequently died this way? Would he just end up as a rather unique Spectral Einherjar with a shadowsoul, or would something more crazy and bizarre happen?
>>
No. 40152 ID: a76809

>>349948
I think you'd have to find out the hard way because telling you would spoil the fun of the allure of the unknown-and since there is no record of a similar event to even be found in the GFH setting, there's no way Armas could ever know before hand what it would be like, short of, I don't know, winning a bet with a god of prophecy.
>>
No. 40155 ID: 02de21

>>349952
Fair enough. I suppose we'll find out when Armas dies, if we get around to Einherjar-ing it up before then. Assuming that we don't get even more mixed into his melange of magic tricks and end up with yet another form of postmortem existence for him, anyway.

On a tangentially related topic that just came up in-thread, how resistant is Armas to aging at this point? Assuming that he keeps snacking on magical food for the rest of his life, I can't imagine that the years will hit him as hard as most people- barring violence and misfortune, how long could he expect to live based on his current abilities alone?
>>
No. 40174 ID: 252e1b

>>349952
>winning a bet with a god of prophecy.

Ha ha very funny.
>>
No. 40230 ID: cd63e9

this is a bit far off but I think i have some stuff we need to get before we take on doonie.

1. its going to leave a very large corpse. we should make a deal with the sometimes merchant or some other force to have the corpse removed and butchered for us. (possibly in return for some of the meat, i think a tenth is standard in this sort of contract though we should specify not the heart.)

2. antidote. his venom is potent enough that a large douse could well kill us, and we should get at least one does for everyone who's going to be helping us.

3. ask Einrik if he has any advice. he's probably killed one. at the very least we should find out exactly how its weakness to cold manifests.
>>
No. 40257 ID: 795698

Could someone drop another batch of logs?

No need to edit them or anything just make sure they are as full as possible and that they continue from the last time (or just upload your IRC text file as it is)
>>
No. 40307 ID: 514949

Bob, I wanted to ask something about waitiri. When we first met her, she was nothing but skull and skin, after she ate us, she started to regain her flesh and previous visage. This makes me think that she has not eaten for a long, long time and was severely malnourished.

Now, when she talked to us about the food we need to eat, it sounded from her perspective that attaining magical meat would be next to impossible or at least very hard for us. Clearly, we have proven her wrong as we consume stupendous amounts of magical meat and soon, magical hearts of regenerating beasts.

What my question is, if Ogrimmir hadn't kicked her out, would she have been a Very Happy Camper while staying with us? And in fact, would it have leveled up our ability somehow?
I am sure she would also benefit from the meat we eat.
>>
No. 40315 ID: 510069

Figured I'd post this in here. Bob has a job again, so the three or more updates a day isn't likely to continue.
>>
No. 40369 ID: b96eab

Is there going to be any way to remove this new paranoia trait? Or, if I'm really really hopeful, a way to make it a positive trait?
>>
No. 40375 ID: 510069

>>350169
Bob has said no, but we can find ways to channel it and make it useful. Still primarily a negative thing though.
>>
No. 40415 ID: 02de21

>>350169
>Is there going to be any way to remove this new paranoia trait?
We could try months of therapy, but I doubt Armas would trust any shrink.

>>/quest/328855
All right, I'll bite. How does
>Is this going to fuck us somehow?
lead to
>...Oh god I'm going to need to start preparing for the feedback shit this could be bad-

but
>Shadows are gates. Your shadow is an active gate linked to you. Maybe something crawled through.
>the ritual to help attract the Einherjar weakened Einherjar enough that the seal on his Eldritch horror let something leak through, and something missing an eye is required for it's new host.
somehow lead to something positive?

I mean, I tried to identify a potential problem by putting together existing facts, with the intent of investigating whether it actually existed and we would need to handle it, and that leads to paranoia. This in spite of the fact that it was presented primarily as a question, acknowledging the fact that the threat might not actually exist and there were other as-yet-unidentified explanations, but that we had a method of dealing with the threat if it were in fact present.

Contrast with saying that nevernever critters might come crawling out of our eyes- from a gate to the nevernever that we have never put anything through and which our shadowbro is literally made of; he'd have been screaming out warnings and fighting anything hostile on our behalf. Not to mention that the inside of our eye isn't actually shadowed; it's a solid object. Or saying that eldritch horrors are nesting in our head based upon nothing more than the fact that we know Einrik has an eldritch horror and that he cast a spell on us once, again ignoring that Shadowbro can obviously detect such things and would be warning/screaming at us about it and the general lack of evidence that Einrik is either hostile or incompetent. In neither case is there any suggestion of ways to test these theories or possible courses of action to take for damage control if they're true.

Call me foolish, but if what I wrote leads to basic paranoia (which I would argue against if I thought there was a reasonable expectation of accomplishing anything thereby), then I'd say that what you wrote leads to locking oneself in a secure room with a gun and staying there for life while eating increasingly-ancient canned food. Advancing rapid rationalization must require some kind of reasoning rather than merely stating facts and then making wild guesses tangentially related to them.

Admittedly, based upon past trends it's very possible that I've fundamentally misunderstood how this game mechanic is supposed to work. If that's the case, my apologies for the criticism and I would greatly appreciate an explanation of the nature of trait advancement here.
>>
No. 40448 ID: cd63e9

as of post 329323 we are 600 more posts from the next gate to the goblins
>>
No. 40476 ID: 510069

>>350215
I think you're more or less right, but you're missing the fact that RRR is based on little to no information, and as such is really only different from paranoia, from what I can tell, in that our theories need to be right. Which is probably why RRR is a great counter to paranoia, as it automates right guesses to a certain degree. So in order to combat Paranoia, I think we do need to take some risk with our guesses, so we can level RRR.

Alternatively, you're right that reasoning need be involved, and your post wasn't based on reasoning anything out. It was just remembering the terms of the oath, and being aware of the fact that they'd been broken. Mine was an attempt to take what very little we did know, put it together, and then guess as to what the large chunk of missing pieces were. This actually seems more likely since Paranoia gained no experience from my post, presumably because it was a failed attempt at RRR. My next attempt should be right though :D

As for how based in reason my guesses were, we're in a highly warded estate. Short of it being an internal thing, which I wrongfully discarded due to the description of it being alien, it had to come from without in a manner that circumvented the wards. Our proximity to Einrik during a ritual that drained him of energy made his seal weakening seemed viable, and something stepping through an active Nevernever gate would bypass pretty much all of the Estate's defenses from my understanding. For outside sources we were aware of, those seemed the two only viable reasons. Shadowbro probably would be aware of them, but I assumed that creatures existing primarily as non-physical entities would have more experience with creatures that can see it, and thus would be able to hide from him.
>>
No. 40477 ID: 02de21

>>350276
>I think you're more or less right, but you're missing the fact that RRR is based on little to no information, and as such is really only different from paranoia, from what I can tell, in that our theories need to be right.

The original trait descriptions are
>-Armas can reason and make intuitive leaps objectively even on subjects where he would normally be subject to heavy bias.
>-Armas has grained greater deductive and intuitive insight into situations he finds himself in!

While part of that is intuition, i.e. making accurate guesses with little information, that's only half the trait. The other half is using reason and deduction, and that doesn't even specify that we reason to a correct conclusion- there are a myriad of situations where logical reasoning can bring one to an incorrect conclusion thanks to incomplete or inaccurate information. So any strictly logical reasoning which brings us to interesting results should advance the trait just like accurate guessing, shouldn't it?

You do seem to be correct in that the only difference between the intuitive part of RRR and Paranoia is whether we're right, though. Which is a little weird, since it's not like Armas actually has any way of discerning between his correct and incorrect conclusions... though I suppose the traits might just be meant to reflect his habit of usually being right or wrong over time.

>your post wasn't based on reasoning anything out
Indeed it wasn't; just bringing a couple known facts together for a potentially relevant conclusion. My experience with magical oaths in games is mostly from Changeling: The Lost, wherein breaking a magically binding oath accidentally is both highly possible and can royally fuck you, so it seemed like something worth checking out. (Why yes, I might still be annoyed over what I considered a reasonable concern to be approached in a logical fashion making us paranoid, why do you ask?)

>As for how based in reason my guesses were, we're in a highly warded estate.
Your logic there still seems a bit sparse to me, but the extra bit of explanatory detail at least makes it seem less like rampant fearmongering and more like throwing darts at a wall with conclusions sticky-noted on it. Which, I suppose, is that nature of intuition.
>>
No. 40565 ID: 7fd095
File 131144616339.jpg - (22.45KB , 591x586 , Meditate to Ogrimmir.jpg )
40565

>>
No. 40568 ID: 514949

I think the main reason why freaking out about the blood oath finalized the paranoia trait is because we already had all information we needed to know that it will not do anything.

Just think about it:
What was the main function of the oath? What was the reason why the made us take it? What were the Russians trying to achive?
...
...
That's right.
To prevent us from telling what happened in that village. That is what they cared about. The information leak.
The fact that it would kill us (or anything else) after we shared the information was not something they cared about. They needed to stop the leak.

The fact that we already spoke about the event twice and that nothing happened, that we felt nothing would have been the indication that the oath did not work. We might not know the reason why it didn't work, but it was clear that it didn't.
So, freaking out even after we proved that the oath doesn't do shit activated the paranoia trait.


The same applies why we got paranoia exp during the boat trip when we freaked out thinking it is doony. We already knew that because of the threat he made in the restaurant, he cannot attack us. Even then, we kept freaking the fuck out so we got paranoia exp.


So, my advice is, to think through your theories. Use all the information we already have. Cross-reference and proof-read.
And only then post the theories.

I think the main reason why Bob even introduced this trait is to stop us from blindly throwing darts and see which ones stick. Before, if 10 different theories were posted and only one was right then that one would be included in the update, which told us that it was true.
Now we will not know which theory is right.
>>
No. 40598 ID: abfb6d

>shadowbro
>:T
Stick in the mud he is. Can't even appreciate a good bit of the classics.
His world his tunes I guess.
..
...

Hmmm, if we get that Item that forcibly casts shadow...could we awaken that one too?
Not saying I want to since that would mean quarter soul for the body (or we split shadowbros...heh, though that has it's own set of problems), just curious.
>>
No. 40621 ID: 510069

>>350368
>We already knew that because of the threat he made in the restaurant, he cannot attack us.

You need to read over the specific threats he made. He can go after us, he just couldn't follow us home and kill us. He also can't go after our family. That's it. We still shouldn't be going out for a boat-ride on the Bosphorus.
>>
No. 40635 ID: 252e1b

I added that timeline from the first quest thread to the wiki. It needs to be brought up to date, but it's still useful for keeping what happened straight.
>>
No. 40672 ID: ea27f2

Hmm by any chance have we made it so that Amen cannot act against us or in any way that while not directly against us would be to our detriment even in the case where we no longer 'own' him?

If not I think we should.
Just sayin, I don't trust this guy father than Armas can throw him, and I'm sure that's not very far.

We need to untangle from Amen as much as possible and leave him only as an option rather than a persistent worry.
(If you are not worrying about Amen every time he speaks I worry about you)
>>
No. 40694 ID: a76809

Bit of vampire info from IRC-you'll have to parse for it's somewhat tongue-in-cheek method of delivery.

Cornelius_Zosimus As it happens, the European Dynasties thought it would be... /appropriate/ for one of the Dynasty's Sires to provide some general question answering services to certain disembodied voices in a fashion that is strictly speaking not canon but is nevertheless entirely accurate. And wondrous day, it was my own esteemed personage picked for this function. Joy. So, what queries involving Vampiric practices and politics do you ethereal entities have? Perhaps the representative of Troy has some questions?



ManOfTroy I do, Sir. What are the major types of Vampire? And what literary Works have the Vampires Dynasties corrupted?

Cornelius_Zosimus There are no official 'types', scion of Troy: Each Dynasty derives its traits from the dynasty sire, as per how Vampiricism is passed on via non lethal, repeat feedings. For example, my own Dynasty is influenced by me preference for Practitioner-like use of magic, specifically of a shadow variant-while some other clans choose to purely focus on physical reinforcement-and do keep in mind I am one of those vampires that participated in the corruption of certain choice literary objects-and have no inclination to tell you what was modified, or how. Would defeat the whole purpose of the action.

Cornelius_Zosimus So, while all are vampires, they can behave and perform very differently based on their clan. This does also mean that once you know what clans are known for what, it becomes relatively easy to get a rough assessment of a Vampire's ability by getting it's Dynasty-and if possible it's age. This does NOT, however, apply to psychological profiling-while magically dynasty members adhere to the example of their sire-who adheres to the format of their sire, etc., a given vampire's behavioral schema are entirely their own.



ManOfTroy Does pure vampiric strength grow with age, Mister Zosimus, or are newer vampires stronger? Not from the power that untold centuries grants a vampire, but from the pure strength of become a vampire - do new vampires become weaker so far from their sire, or does the eons of feeding mean that newer vampires are stronger, but without the experience and years of training?

Cornelius_Zosimus The answer is that a Vampire's strength, upon siring, is ONLY based on the relative magical potency of its direct sire. And as older vampires generally 'grow out' of the habit of making sires once they realize how potent the spawn will be, the magical strength of vampires has not increased on any level but an individual level for those that continue to survive



Guile And as for powers- do practitioner-like powers tend to run in clans, such as your own inestimable self's shadow magic, and are such things acquired with age, or are there other factors? Is it ever likely that a young vampire is stronger than a more antediluvian one? And is there a particular clan of vampires whose voice has more weight among their peers - a first among equals, as it were? The Zosimos dynasty, perhaps?

Cornelius_Zosimus To the one naming themselves after cunning, two answers: Short of starting with a fundamentally different stock-such as a magically active mortal, rather than a mundane (assuming you can locate one who, in being magical, is not rendered immune to the Conversion), younger vampires will not exceed their elders without living some rather EXCESSIVELY exciting decades to forcibly grow by sheer dint of survival. As this method has a very low survival trait, one can infer it does not get implemented often. Second question: There is the First Dynasty, whose founding and current sire is wholly a being of the nevernever, and is thought by some to be the origin of all vampirism. However, the last representative of the H Dynasty was seen some seven hundred years ago-they are well known for reclusiveness and secrecy. The H Dynasty's home, in case one wonders, is a secret even to the other Dynasty Sires-myself included.



Guile Only mortals can be turned right? What is 'mortal', anyway? The ability to die of age? It can't just be to bear offspring, there must be fae and similar beings out there who can do so...

Cornelius_Zosimus Mortality is three things: The ability to feel the flow of time-to change, to age, mature, wither and die with its passage. The ability to sire more of your kind without having to convert existing life forms to this purpose. And the ability to freely exercise free will. As it happens, only humans meet all three of these criteria as a species. There are individual entities that fit all three criteria that are not human, but are uncommon enough they can be appreciably ignored for statistical purposes.



ManOfTroy Mister Zosimus, this H Dynasty, where they the origin of the feud with the werewolf lineages?

Cornelius_Zosimus The H dynasty has been implicated in the feud by the werewolves, while we hold their founding Clan, known only as Clan M, was the instigator. As neither Clan M nor Dynasty H has commented on the contention, the issue is still open to interpretation.



Guile Well then, to turn my earlier questions around- are there differing levels of immortality? Can one be just a little immortal?

Cornelius_Zosimus To a degree. Some things are only immune to the ravages of time-chronologically immortal, but still mundanely slayable. There are also those who can safely ignore nearly all forms of mundane harm-and those who can ignore most forms of magical harm. Quite frankly, there are more variations of 'Immortal' then there are of 'Mortal'.



So yeah, there's a wee bit of general vampire information from IRC.
>>
No. 40699 ID: b1f0e2

>Ogrimar: That eye will slay you if you try to pluck it-and should you leave it to wallow in fear it will rob you of your soul
Sealing the eye bought us time, but we must solve the issue. Letting it just fester on its own will result in loss of soul, unacceptable...
We thus should unseal it in a controlled environment and actively influence the battle inside so that we control the victory conditions.

>>331460
>Ogrimar: "Be aware, from the start, that should you make Contract with me, Mortal, you will have to slay any Einherjar you meet, without exception-you need not slay them the moment you lay eyes on them, but they cannot escape your presence once noted-and this will not be negotiated."

>Ogrimar: I have other agents in istanbul (more or less, not verbatim)

>>327050
>That night he notes he found the passage he was thinking of-long story short, Einherjar can exist in two forms-there's the warrior that died in glorious battle, a spiritual warrior in Valhalla-or a living warrior, drawing forth additional power from their soul by sacrificing parts of their flesh. The process doesn't involve mutilation, but a magically driven consumption of flesh to power the body being sheltered from it's full might. By this, it seems that Living Einherjar can force themselves to perform without Limiters on their muscles, without risking breaking their bones or tearing muscles and ligaments, but it comes at the cost of rapidly draining stored energy and calories from their body. Einrik postulates that the Living Einherjar are the larval form of the deceased kind commonly found in legends, and that by using their ability to the point their body can no longer sustain life is what triggers the evolution into a Spectral Einherjar. He also notes that he's fought quite a few people using Einherjar powers before-and while he still does not think it the equal of the house's style, he sees no inherent reason to call the ability poorly designed: Power, speed and reflexes are all increased without putting the body to undue strain for a direct amplification ability.

>Moving from there, he notes that to make a blank bloodline become Einherjar inclined, he knows of exactly one method-that being to get into a mortal fight with another Living Einherjar, and slay them. He supposes other methods could exist, but its the only one he is personally aware of.

Now, unless I am reading this wrong, armas would become an Einjerhar himself should he slay one. While the exact wording of his agreement with ogrimar does not require suicide (he does not leave his own presence), I wouldn't want to make an enemy of ogrimar and to fight his other agents.
However, it is possible that I am misreading it. So if anyone has input on this issue please share.
>>
No. 40702 ID: 514949

>>350499
I would like to know that too. Did we make it impossible for us to have einherjar powers?


Also, consider that we have a lure and we will know when they are near us.
This means we can lay down some wicked traps. If we don't encounter any while staying in finland or during the trip home, we should, as soon as we come back, take 10-20 hours lessons on trap-making from the goblins.
>>
No. 40708 ID: b1f0e2

>>350502
first take 1 hour learning about them. We want to know what they are weak against and their exact strengths.
>>
No. 40725 ID: a76809

>>350502
All I shall say at this juncture is that you did not make it impossible to become an Einherjar.
>>
No. 40745 ID: cd63e9

hey i was rereading the quest when i noticed this bit.

>[EV][In English]"The world of Magic is vast indeed, and I am thankful for the chance to see this-the pre-existing demonic and divine energies of your own body, your personal taint of respective origins clashing and reacting with another Divine source-one that's capable of self-replication

that's in addition to the deal we made with the summer deity. unless we took a bite out of a god during the job we did for the goblins that's probably amen's blood that he's picking up. the bit about self replication is somewhat worrying, and so is the part where its divine. what the hell is amen? Einrik might be able to tell us what the self replicating divine thing is, and maybe tell us more about it.
>>
No. 40746 ID: cd63e9

hey i was rereading the quest when i noticed this bit.

>[EV][In English]"The world of Magic is vast indeed, and I am thankful for the chance to see this-the pre-existing demonic and divine energies of your own body, your personal taint of respective origins clashing and reacting with another Divine source-one that's capable of self-replication

that's in addition to the deal we made with the summer deity. unless we took a bite out of a god during the job we did for the goblins that's probably amen's blood that he's picking up. the bit about self replication is somewhat worrying, and so is the part where its divine. what the hell is amen? Einrik might be able to tell us what the self replicating divine thing is, and maybe tell us more about it.
>>
No. 40758 ID: 37b846

Would there be any kind of supernatural effect if, when Armas goes to New Zealand to reconnect with Whaitiri, he got some moko (Maori tattoo that is cut rather than punctured) done?
>>
No. 40763 ID: 297087

Hey Bob, will there be some kind of Highlander ("There can be only one!") aspect to Einherjar powers and the Einherjar hunting?
I mean, would it be possible to improve the power by killing additional Einherjars and claiming their soul/power like the initial power acquisition demands us of doing?

Would be pretty awesome and would make Eiherjar hunting a much more lucrative prospect than it is now.

Also, I think the way to get those powers is just to take the powers but no additional responsibility/oaths that go with them. I suspect that the "right" way to become an Einherjar is to make a similar contract with Odin (or whatever) and he would grant those powers. If we just kill one of them and claim their powers, we should not be bound to anything. We would just take their "tools".

To make this more relevant, an example: A taliban guerrilla who kills an American soldier then takes his rifle and fancy helmet doesn't suddenly become an American soldier who is bound to the same oaths and other taliban fighters will not suddenly regard him as an enemy.
I think we could spin the "taking" Einherjar powers like the example I just made. Just because we have their powers, doesn't mean we become them (Maybe. Who knows how the things in magical world actually work?).
>>
No. 40770 ID: 252e1b

Got a couple of things to bring up about posting numbers.

First, we're approaching >333333 which is both a repdigit and a palindrome.

Second, we're going to hit a string of 3 sexy primes soon, >333667, >333673, and >333679

Sexy primes are primes that are 6 apart. They're rare compared to the overall set of primes we're likely to reach, and getting a cluster of three in a row like this is not very common at all.

Finally, there's a harmonic divisor number coming up, >360360, the first number divisible by 1 through 15 inclusive.

There's some other stuff coming up too, but those were the most interesting ones. I remembered the sexy primes and that prompted me to go look up the other stuff. If you're at all interested there's a list of interesting numbers in this sequence on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100000_(number)
>>
No. 40788 ID: 4db83d

"Those who joined Odin in Valhalla were ... heroes who followed the god in life and pledged him their loyal service in return for his help." This is a quote from Gods and Myths of Northern Europe by HR Ellis Davidson. It seems to support the idea that some kind of Contract with Odin is required to actually 'become' an einherjar.
>>
No. 40808 ID: b1f0e2

>>350588
good points.
plus:
>>/quest/332804
>In fact, I'd venture your possession of as much winter capacity as a Compounded Bloodline-well, not [i]quite like myself or father... but perhaps like Tuomo and Veiko, generally speaking. But, unlike anyone who is from a Clan that would lead to such an infusement of magic would perforce already have that bloodline slated for use from birth. Yours is still flexible and open-Einherjar, plural, I believe could be the foundation of your Winter Bloodline. ...But enough ruminations for the moment-"

Einherjar, plural, could be the foundation of a armas' winter bloodline... not him becoming AN Einherjar (singular, state of being), but rather getting a bloodline whose foundation is Einherjars.
>>
No. 40809 ID: a76809

>>3550558
Assuming you find someone proficient in arcane runing based magic and is likewise a skilled tattooist/moko tattooist, and is inclined to offer such to Armas-yes, there could be, dependant on Armas' state at the time, who's doing the work, whether ink or moko, the design, placement-all are factors.

>>350563
Only to the extent you can fit five Einherjar soul's worth within your Winter bloodline, having them compound one another and ultimately become something that was never really designed for the human body-quite frankly, what you'd have at that point would be best used by someone as sturdy as a Valkonen so they don't start breaking, even with the reinforcement.

...Oh wait Armas can store pre-healing and regenerate. Maybe he could use it. Wonder how the healing and literally physically overwhelming power would interact?

But no, no Highlander effect of killing more beyond those five making you stronger-beyond what you would get if you decide to just straight up cannibalize them, or their souls directly. Which... would really, REALLY piss off the Valkyrie that comes for the Einherjar, and the greater Norse pantheon something fierce-felling them in fair combat, and claiming, as victor, a physical trophy, and choosing the heart after a fairly fought contest to the death (as in both know the fight are starting, anything AFTER is mostly fair game, but Armas is most effective with surprise) is something even some of the Einherjar won't object to.

...So long as you don't eat the heart then and there, without some REAL smooth talking to back it up. I mean, fucking phenomenal linguistical prowess.

Eating six and beyond hearts will just continue to saturate your body with magic-you will have already fully incorporated as much Einherjar as you have blank bloodline, and gain no further appreciable benefit worth the harvesting difficulty.

>>350608
MrTT brings up a rather critical distinction, where it comes to your Contract with Ogrimir.




Did I miss any questions?
>>
No. 40831 ID: 1425ac

I have to say, the temptation to say to Markku, "Sir, I already knew you to be a thief, but a liar as well? To do both so shamelessly to one who is not only a guest, but has already done you great kindness, is a shamefull thing. I had hoped I had brought the orphans to a family who could be trusted with their care, but now I am confronted with such evidence of you lack of honour... Well, it takes the breath away."

Of course, we can't but this is proper cheek.
>>
No. 40836 ID: 252e1b

>>350631

You're such a sperglord.
>>
No. 40865 ID: 3cbcc4

What happened between the start of the trip and Pobadino?
>>
No. 40868 ID: a76809

>>350665
I suppose you'll have to get Armas drunk-not enough to pass out, but enough to be more forthcoming-and instead of any of the other myriad topics he may normally enjoy pondering, choose this topic and have him reminesce. Though if I may suggest, a better spent period of recollection would be one directed at his issues with rocket launchers, bazookas and RPGs-THAT shit is actually pretty relevant, but he never really likes to think about it.

I digress, but by this point I think you are aware I do that.


More questions?
>>
No. 40869 ID: f8aa66

Just a few christmas gift ideas I didn't want to clutter the quest thread with.

>>333472
Nothing wrong with sending people alcohol for Christmas.

Do we have any of the mead left that SM sends us? Bet the merc squad would like to try it. Though I'd really like to just bring some when we go out to get drunk some time. We could just send them a keg.

Cornelius, well... we do have a cellar presumably full of that bloodwine stuff. Although maybe we should save that for when we get an arranged meeting with the vampires (if that's still happening).

If we can't think of anything better for Arkvad, there are some expensive, quality whiskeys out there.

Riker gets a singing telegram detailing Vladimir Chugainov's latest antics, love Armas.

Big Crazy: a dreamcatcher. Non-magic.

Ito: a month's supply of viagra.

Rocco Armani... Godfather boxed set? Bet he gets that every christmas.

If we could find Savoy, we could send him http://www.eballz.com/new/trophy.html, engraved with the insult of our choice.
>>
No. 40874 ID: 252e1b

>>350668

Hey, do his issues with such weapons extend to molotov cocktails or are those on the "safe list of unsafe things"?
>>
No. 40875 ID: a76809

>>350674
Safe list, most def. Anything he throws by hand is good-and anything treated like an upscaled bullet (40mm grenade launcher, for example) is largely fine. It's ONLY devices that have self-propelled munitions.

This would mean if he EVER got some gyrojet pistols he would feel uncomfortable using them-

But molotovs, grenades of all sorts-TOTALLY fine.
>>
No. 40889 ID: 252e1b

>>350675

Wait, what about a Djakanov-type rifle grenade? The old kind, vintage WW2, where the grenade launcher is mounted on the muzzle of the rifle, and then launched by shooting a normal cartridge (as the grenade has a hollow that allows for the bullet to pass)?

Like this: http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k268650_Russian%20WW2%20grenade%20D-32%20Djakanov%20Mosin-Nagant%20rif.jpg

http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k268651_Russian%20WW2%20grenade%20Djakonov%2040.6mm%20Mosin-Nagant%201.jpg
>>
No. 40890 ID: d9e951

For the Doonongaes: a large eel with "suck it, doony" carved into the side.
>>
No. 40924 ID: 252e1b

>>350669

I want to send Savoy some of these: http://www.neuticles.com/

Poodle sized.
>>
No. 40933 ID: 44766a

... Do it.
>>
No. 40936 ID: cb0cc3

Christmas gift ideas.

As far as I know, Armas' parents are both alive. Unfortunately, aside from the fact that they have some family connections they're willing to pull on his behalf, we know nothing about his relationship with them, so it's difficult to recommend gifts. A handwritten card wishing them love and a fairly minor mundane gift which suits their known tastes.

Likewise, Armas might have other relations and friends from the Marines or Rangers who are deserving of gifts and we simply have never heard about them in-game because they're not relevant to the current situation. That doesn't mean that Armas has forgotten about them, though, and he'd be likely to send them something. Something fairly small but which shows that Armas has not forgotten them and their tastes should suffice in most cases- good booze of whatever sort they like, music they'd appreciate, or if someone has a habit or fondness for something else that Armas knows send something related to that (ex., Armas might send someone like himself an orange tie). This can also apply to Arkvad and Riker, but as they've been useful contacts their gifts should be proportionately better (more expensive booze, probably).

Camella, who is more than likely responsible for saving our life on the Smets job, gets a big present. I stand by the suggestion of Brandt's oversized super-gun, because while it's highly valuable we're likely to never use it for anything since we've got tons of other weapons- and Camella would. If we need something that requires its firepower we can bring her in on the job.

Big Crazy... I'd say that he can keep the Tokarev we've already loaned him. We're probably never going to use it, and while it's enchanted and worth a fair bit, so what? That's only stuff, only money. Friendship is better and he's been quite tolerant and a decent guy to hang out with. Definitely do not get him anything which involves his heritage in any way; we make more than enough race jokes.

The mercenary crew can get a keg of some kind of awesome booze, as suggested. Actually, considering how good the Valkonen booze was when we first tried it, I bet that we could get away with sending them a single flask of that each if the Valkonens will let us. Hopefully this will send the message that we might be into the supernatural end of things, but we're like that in a cool way that pays dividends in the form of deliciousness.

Ito should get something which shows our appreciation as his student. Unfortunately, nothing comes to mind. Perhaps a list of all significant martial arts tournaments scheduled for 2011 with a note attached that says "pick one", the implicit gift being that we'll enter it? We did say that we planned to do so when persuading him to take us on.

Labombard and Go ping I unfortunately cannot think of anything great for. Most mercenary-style gear they'll have for themselves already; for example, an axe was suggested for Go Ping but I suspect he's already got some kind of awesome magical axes, or at least super-high-quality mundane ones. And our relationships are largely based upon mercenary work, although rereading our interactions with them might offer additional hints as to what would be possible gifts.

Einrik it was suggested that we let him copy that notebook we made when studying stealth. We've moved far beyond needing it, so we might as well give it to him outright- though I'm not sure how useful it would be to him, it does contain much of what we took away from the goblins' direct instruction, so there are probably insights there that we can't effectively give him since we're not the best teacher. We might also let him look up the relevant bits of our memories to reference.

Markku we can get some of that mead, possibly getting him a periodic delivery deal or just ordering that our existing supply be rerouted to be delivered to him for however long.

We need to get Hillevi something particularly carefully chosen, because she's got a massive crush on us and will read a ton into whatever we give her. And she healed us and has been quite nice in general. I will continue to think on the matter and hopefully come up with something ingenious when I'm less exhausted.

No idea what to get Helmi, but it would need to be something fairly good since she helped out with our eye. Unfortunate that we know so little about her.

No idea for the brothers either. Some kind of delicious food they can't normally get would probably suffice.

The Riihivuori children I wanted to get a laptop with encrypted satellite net access as both a useful tool in keeping their hand in the modern world if they end up spending extended periods in places like this, and a statement on Armas' part that he wishes to keep in contact with them (email, Skype, etc.) The idea that the Valkonen wards might block their net access did not occur to me, but would be worth asking about- I doubt they were built with any capability that would block satellite communication, but who knows? Dreamcatchers would be great but the impression I got from Big Crazy was that they would b very difficult to come by.


The Doonongaes and Savoy taunt gifts suggested already seem fairly hilarious. Not currently supporting any other gifts for the various supernatural figures that we know, unless we can come up with something good for Sometimes Merchant. He's the only one of them that we've got anything like a mutually beneficial working relationship with.


As to the how, overnight and/or goblin delivery would hopefully get everything there in something resembling a timely fashion. We'll have to come up with something for Sometimes Merchant to make him willing to have minions play post, though.


More thoughts on this when I'm more coherent, I hope.
>>
No. 40947 ID: a6ab09

>>350736
don't forget Camilla's still beating heart stocking stuffer
>>
No. 40948 ID: 5e6d44

>>350736
>As far as I know, Armas' parents are both alive. Unfortunately, aside from the fact that they have some family connections they're willing to pull on his behalf, we know nothing about his relationship with them, so it's difficult to recommend gifts. A handwritten card wishing them love and a fairly minor mundane gift which suits their known tastes.

Good point. As I recall, they're living in fairly straightened circumstances, so Armas should look into giving them some real money.

>Likewise, Armas might have other relations and friends from the Marines or Rangers who are deserving of gifts and we simply have never heard about them in-game because they're not relevant to the current situation. That doesn't mean that Armas has forgotten about them, though, and he'd be likely to send them something. Something fairly small but which shows that Armas has not forgotten them and their tastes should suffice in most cases- good booze of whatever sort they like, music they'd appreciate, or if someone has a habit or fondness for something else that Armas knows send something related to that (ex., Armas might send someone like himself an orange tie). This can also apply to Arkvad and Riker, but as they've been useful contacts their gifts should be proportionately better (more expensive booze, probably).

Agreed.

>Camella, who is more than likely responsible for saving our life on the Smets job, gets a big present. I stand by the suggestion of Brandt's oversized super-gun, because while it's highly valuable we're likely to never use it for anything since we've got tons of other weapons- and Camella would. If we need something that requires its firepower we can bring her in on the job.

We have nothing equivalent to the Gatmalite though, and we will never get it, as the Gatmalite was never manufactured, and the one we took of Brandt must be a one off custom made piece of kit. The other real disadvantage to the weapon is that it really needs a bottomless magasine, otherwise you need to be a superhumanly strong person who can carry vast amounts of ammo on belts. When we've done this, it would make a great counterpart for the AA-12 at long/mid range combat. It's just too potentially useful when magically improved to give away.

It would also be best to give her something non-weapon related. She's lost her family and home, and knows that someone else is living her life in her place, and doing it totally differently to how she would do it. Something to help with setting up a new house would be appropriate.

>Big Crazy... I'd say that he can keep the Tokarev we've already loaned him. We're probably never going to use it, and while it's enchanted and worth a fair bit, so what? That's only stuff, only money. Friendship is better and he's been quite tolerant and a decent guy to hang out with. Definitely do not get him anything which involves his heritage in any way; we make more than enough race jokes.

The point about it being magic is that this is worth more than money, it's something that we can trade to the goblins for much needed enhancements to our other magical gear. The fact that we, very temporarily have a surplus of magic items in no way suggests that this is ever going to repeat itself.

> The mercenary crew can get a keg of some kind of awesome booze, as suggested. Actually, considering how good the Valkonen booze was when we first tried it, I bet that we could get away with sending them a single flask of that each if the Valkonens will let us. Hopefully this will send the message that we might be into the supernatural end of things, but we're like that in a cool way that pays dividends in the form of deliciousness.

We should just bring a keg with us when we leave, with a one use charm to keep it chilled, and invite them to a big late New Years party.

>Ito should get something which shows our appreciation as his student. Unfortunately, nothing comes to mind. Perhaps a list of all significant martial arts tournaments scheduled for 2011 with a note attached that says "pick one", the implicit gift being that we'll enter it? We did say that we planned to do so when persuading him to take us on.

We can do better than that, we can give him contact details for a clan of magical martial artists in Istanbul.

>Labombard and Go ping I unfortunately cannot think of anything great for. Most mercenary-style gear they'll have for themselves already; for example, an axe was suggested for Go Ping but I suspect he's already got some kind of awesome magical axes, or at least super-high-quality mundane ones. And our relationships are largely based upon mercenary work, although rereading our interactions with them might offer additional hints as to what would be possible gifts.

Not weapons or other merc gear, we want to broaden our friendship with them. We should get them something connected to their other interests, some notes on Valkonen style healing for Go Ping perhaps.

>Einrik it was suggested that we let him copy that notebook we made when studying stealth. We've moved far beyond needing it, so we might as well give it to him outright- though I'm not sure how useful it would be to him, it does contain much of what we took away from the goblins' direct instruction, so there are probably insights there that we can't effectively give him since we're not the best teacher. We might also let him look up the relevant bits of our memories to reference.

In for a penny in for a pound, I suppose - ask him what the family does for Christmas, if they do nothing, then don't give gifts now, as it would be rude.

>Markku we can get some of that mead, possibly getting him a periodic delivery deal or just ordering that our existing supply be rerouted to be delivered to him for however long.

The Valkonens are probably non-Christian, and he may be violently opposed to any suggestion that he is playing a part in Christian rituals. I strongly advise against this.

We should however give a token of our gratitude for hosting us when we leave though.

>We need to get Hillevi something particularly carefully chosen, because she's got a massive crush on us and will read a ton into whatever we give her. And she healed us and has been quite nice in general. I will continue to think on the matter and hopefully come up with something ingenious when I'm less exhausted.

Once more, this works better as a leaving present than a Christmas gift. If she's very sheltered, then she's unlikely to have had chocolates, so maybe arrange with SM to have a batch of the finest of these delivered to the fridge before we leave. You probably also want to give her something to remember you by. Some form of jewellery may be best for that.

>No idea what to get Helmi, but it would need to be something fairly good since she helped out with our eye. Unfortunate that we know so little about her.

Ask Big, I bet he knows her preferences. Perhaps a whip.

>No idea for the brothers either. Some kind of delicious food they can't normally get would probably suffice.

> The Riihivuori children I wanted to get a laptop with encrypted satellite net access as both a useful tool in keeping their hand in the modern world if they end up spending extended periods in places like this, and a statement on Armas' part that he wishes to keep in contact with them (email, Skype, etc.) The idea that the Valkonen wards might block their net access did not occur to me, but would be worth asking about- I doubt they were built with any capability that would block satellite communication, but who knows? Dreamcatchers would be great but the impression I got from Big Crazy was that they would b very difficult to come by.

This is phenomenally expensive once you start including the $7/MB data rates. You can start hitting thousands of dollars a day without too much trouble.

> The Doonongaes and Savoy taunt gifts suggested already seem fairly hilarious. Not currently supporting any other gifts for the various supernatural figures that we know, unless we can come up with something good for Sometimes Merchant. He's the only one of them that we've got anything like a mutually beneficial working relationship with.

Don't remind Savoy we exist, unless the idea is to provoke him to jumping onto the Valkonen grounds to ambush him.

>As to the how, overnight and/or goblin delivery would hopefully get everything there in something resembling a timely fashion. We'll have to come up with something for Sometimes Merchant to make him willing to have minions play post, though.

The only thing I would use SM for would be Hillevi's chocolates, as they would follow the usual delivery method. For Doonegeas, I would recommend asking Amen to Cornelius to pass our gift on.
>>
No. 40950 ID: b1f0e2

>The Riihivuori children I wanted to get a laptop with encrypted satellite net access as both a useful tool in keeping their hand in the modern world if they end up spending extended periods in places like this, and a statement on Armas' part that he wishes to keep in contact with them (email, Skype, etc.) The idea that the Valkonen wards might block their net access did not occur to me, but would be worth asking about- I doubt they were built with any capability that would block satellite communication, but who knows? Dreamcatchers would be great but the impression I got from Big Crazy was that they would b very difficult to come by.

There is no wireless connection on the house grounds because it is MAGICALLY BLOCKED by house enchantments not due to lack of reception.

>Don't remind Savoy we exist, unless the idea is to provoke him to jumping onto the Valkonen grounds to ambush him.
Agreed, and we don't WANT him to jump in... remember if we draw enemies to house grounds we are endangering the family. That is a big nono.

>The only thing I would use SM for would be Hillevi's chocolates, as they would follow the usual delivery method. For Doonegeas, I would recommend asking Amen to Cornelius to pass our gift on.
Agreed, the price is too high and it isn't worth it.
... Didn't we buy amen a computer with internet connection? Even if not he has a phone (and yes, it IS possible to order things via phone with credit card, I have done it before!). walk off the family ground and have him order gifts for most people online, with money.

Finally, I would rather just give it to them late and say "sorry for it being late, I was indisposed during Xmas itself. Merry Xmas"

Speaking of, I think MOST gifts should be mundane purcahsed with money in the common world rather then wondrous magical items and other such things.
>>
No. 40951 ID: b1f0e2

>The Valkonens are probably non-Christian, and he may be violently opposed to any suggestion that he is playing a part in Christian rituals. I strongly advise against this.
Well, Christmas draws its roots from the winter solstice.
The winter solstice occurs exactly when the axial tilt of a planet is farthest away from its star. The seasonal significance of the winter solstice is in the reversal of the gradual lengthening of nights and shortening of days.

Incidentally that was "yesterday" in game time (december 21st on the year 2011... it varies) and they didn't celebrate it, so either bob forgot or they don't celebrate any holidays at all.
>>
No. 40952 ID: b1f0e2

actually, perhaps giving hilevy chocolates is a bad idea...

WTF are we even doing with her anyways? I would like to remind you that her father is violently opposed to premarital sex (he SAID SO) and can and will rip out armas spine...

IF we intend to start a branch family then what we need to do is:
1. Ask permission to court her
2. Court her
3. Marry her
4. Start a family

This is the only sane option and its only if that is our goal... otherwise we need to back the fuck off.
>>
No. 40953 ID: 5e6d44

TO answer something from the disc thread, in case I don't catch up with Bob tonight.:

><@TheBeardiestBob> Alratan's got a design for something pretty much PERFECT against unarmored, flesh foes. It is kinda worthless on decent light armor and up-and at any range beyond, say, eighty feet at the most. But within the confines of <80 feet away, unarmored-they are the hottest shit since sliced bread

That's the very problem that flechettes are designed to address. Their very high sectional density (and sharp edges) is designed to penetrate armour and to minimise air resistance, and their arrangement as darts also reduces dispersion as they travel. According to the wiki page (which seems trustworthy), the design target of being effective against enemies wearing body armour at 150m was successfully met, with them still supersonic (actually 365 m/s) at that distance, and still capable of penetrating 76mm of wood and 3mm of steel.

The intention was to replace bullets in standard military side-arms, and it seems that the major barrier to adoption was cost, not technical viability. We should look into loading them in the Raging Judges as well.

Link: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/SCMITR
>>
No. 40967 ID: 252e1b

Hey what if we gave Camella a piece of art? Like, something that her sister-self in this reality made? There's no one else in the world who would better know her tastes in art than, well, herself.
>>
No. 41000 ID: cb0cc3

>>350747
>don't forget Camilla's still beating heart stocking stuffer
We promised her that as a souvenir from the trip. That means it should be given to her upon our return, preferably accompanied by a massive grin. I mean, we'd better do that in person just so that we can see the look on her face.

>It would also be best to give her something non-weapon related. She's lost her family and home, and knows that someone else is living her life in her place, and doing it totally differently to how she would do it. Something to help with setting up a new house would be appropriate.
Okay, I have to agree with you on this one. The overall purpose of our gift for Camella should be to make her feel like she has friends and is building a new home for herself here, like her life here is something truly worthwhile instead of just something she's stuck with. I thought of guns because what she's into as her interests, so far as I know, are guns and martial arts. But if we could come up with something else that would make her feel at home I'd support it- I just don't know what. Honestly, I'd wonder if we can work out a good gift OOC with her player- that would be my normal move in an RP conducted in person- but I don't know how practical that is in this situation, so we might be stuck brainstorming ourselves.

>Hey what if we gave Camella a piece of art? Like, something that her sister-self in this reality made?
I suspect anything which reminds her that there's another Camella out there which the world thinks is the real one would be more likely to inspire hurt feelings than anything else. Let's not risk it.

>It's just too potentially useful when magically improved to give away.
>The point about it being magic is that this is worth more than money
I think we have different philosophies here. I see magic items, wealth, and all that as more of a means to an end than anything else- that end being the acquisition of ever more personal power and friendly contact for Armas, moving him from a tiny bit player to a well-connected and powerful agent in the supernatural world. Unless we are actively using something on least an occasional basis, I see little reason to hoard it against what we might need eventually or what it could be if we put work into it. If we can't use it, cash it in for power or connections. The bigass gun and the Tokarev are things that we're not using and they should be put to use- gifting them seems a fine function, but if you'd rather sell them and put the cash to use I'm more than fine with that.

>The Valkonens are probably non-Christian, and he may be violently opposed to any suggestion that he is playing a part in Christian rituals. I strongly advise against this.
This strikes me as a needless worry- as was observed in-thread, Armas isn't doing this because he's Christian, he's doing it because he's a product of American consumerist culture. That said, a quick check with Einrik can determine the truth of the matter and as you note we can still give parting gifts. Based on that, coming up with gift ideas for each of the Valkonens should be conducted regardless and we can save whatever we come up with for later if necessary.

>If she's very sheltered, then she's unlikely to have had chocolates, so maybe arrange with SM to have a batch of the finest of these delivered to the fridge before we leave. You probably also want to give her something to remember you by. Some form of jewellery may be best for that.
Chocolates are almost always an excellent gift for the ladies, though if she's really never had it before "the finest" might be wasted on her. Merely very good should suffice. As far as jewelry goes, Armas strikes me as the kind of guy who would stick to gifts that are either functional or awesome, and unless it's enchanted jewelry is neither- though it would likely serve the function of charming her quite well.

>This is phenomenally expensive once you start including the $7/MB data rates. You can start hitting thousands of dollars a day without too much trouble.
After poking around online for this, I have still not managed to determine if the (also extremely expensive) flat monthly fees I've found are for actual satellite dishes or mobile services. Unfortunately, I've run out of time to waste on researching this, so while I think we might be able to pull it off for my originally estimated $6000 price tag it's also possible that we can't and my internet-fu is insufficient to determine that correctly. If we can't, we need another gift for them- based on what Big Crazy said, dreamcatchers are out of our price range. What else could we get them that would give them something other than grief to focus on and/or offer a way to keep in touch with us after we leave, so they don't feel left behind and abandoned?

>>350750
>There is no wireless connection on the house grounds because it is MAGICALLY BLOCKED by house enchantments not due to lack of reception.
There's no wireless connection on the house grounds because they're in the middle of fucking nowhere and cell phone towers don't have an unlimited range, nor do they install them in areas where virtually no one lives without reason. Pretty sure it's not magically blocked, but as with so many other things we can just ask Einrik. Armas seemed to think that a satellite phone would let Markku call Sometimes Merchant without trouble.

>Agreed, the price is too high and it isn't worth it.
The reason I consider Sometimes Merchant a viable option here is specifically that space seems to mean almost as little to the goblins as time when it comes to delivering things. I strongly suspect that the price for bringing things to where we need them to be- which can include awesome and specific things, like "put this giant machine gun with a bow on it on Camella's bed"- will be dirt cheap. If it proves otherwise, then we can turn to other options, of course, but it's hard to beat the sheer style and potential trollery that the goblins can provide.

>>350752
>WTF are we even doing with her anyways?
We're spending time with her and encouraging her to like us.

>branch family
>This is the only sane option and its only if that is our goal... otherwise we need to back the fuck off.
Starting a branch family is not our objective here, no. I strongly suspect that would be a raw deal for Armas in many ways.

But there is no reason whatsoever to not keep the option open. The Valkonen family has so much trouble finding people for its children to marry that Einrik, the heir, remains unwed when he's what- in his forties? There's not a single one of them that's found a spouse. Hillevi is the youngest and thus likely to marry after the others even if they do manage to somehow start finding worthy people to pair up with. We can almost certainly let this matter sit for years- possibly decades- without openly declaring a desire to marry her before that option disappears. During that time, we can maintain good relations with the Valkonens, grow in power and influence, and sleep with whomever we please.

So basically we don't need to back the fuck off. If we leave the Valkonen household with all family members thinking well of us and Hillevi maintaining a crush even though we haven't gotten physical, there is pretty much no downside to that.
>>
No. 41009 ID: 252e1b

>>350800
>wireless internet for the kids

Another option would be to set up cellular repeater in the house, attached to a directional antenna (probably a yagi type) pointed at a solar-powered repeater at the edge of the property. That would require line of sight between the repeater node and the house, and the repeater node and the local cell phone tower. Speeds would be effectively halved, but it would be much cheaper in the long run. I would expect it to have some trouble in the rain, but that's not such a big issue.

Armas has some technical ability, even if he doesn't have a networking background most of that stuff is essentially "plug this in, and then point the antenna there."
>>
No. 41010 ID: 252e1b

>>350809

In fact a suitable outdoor repeater would be like this one: http://www.cellantenna.com/index.php?id=cae750

Using waveguides instead of yagis would be even better, but that requires either math and thinky-man stuff, or buying waveguides in the right frequency. Yagis are much more common, and might be good enough (20 kilometers isn't unreasonable for a yagi, though a waveguide could certainly do it).
>>
No. 41011 ID: 4069a4

I don't uderstand why we need to buy wireless sattelite internet and notebook for the kids.
Are they expected to stay here for the rest of their lives?

Just find out what they situation is going to be before suggesting we spend a lot of money on unnecessary stuff.
I mean, there are other Rihiivuoli left, right?
>>
No. 41014 ID: 252e1b

>>350811

Aye, there's the rub. Are there other Rihiivuoli left? The way everyone has been talking, it doesn't seem so. If they're going to be in the care of the Valkonens, they're going to be there for a decade or so at least.
>>
No. 41069 ID: 44766a

...Hey, Bob what is our theoretical level right now?
>>
No. 41070 ID: cb0cc3

>>350869
"Master Troll"?
>>
No. 41071 ID: 203c72
File 131235152262.gif - (13.57KB , 450x450 , SCIENCE! 4.gif )
41071

Proposal for eventual modification of Judge holdouts.

Magical augmentation of both that converts force of recoil into a two-dimensional barrel extention of about a foot or so for extra accuracy and power.

Modify ONE of the holdouts into a pepperbox style configuration. Lock the cylinder, convert it into a break-action and build barrels onto each chamber, rig it to fire all rounds simultaneously.

A word on ammunition:

Slug made of an aluminum alloy or something else light and relatively soft, tungsten carbide core, ballistic titanium nose cap. Outer aluminum skin made slightly porous as a matter of design, with the pits filled in with fine-grain wood pulp soaked in some sort of fast-acting paralytic agent and glazed over with a thin lead coating. Perhaps a blend of curare and scopolamine for the paralytic component. Essentially an APCR (armor piercing composite, rigid) slug with a touch of chemical warfare added for extra flavor.

Furthermore, shallow grooves etched down from below the ballistic cap and along the sides of the outer body. Add a fragmentation element to it. Also have some INTERNAL ones around the penetrator core. So that it's anchored to the back of the ballistic tip and seated inside an X of hollow space, capped off at the back with a thin rear sheet. Basically it's so that on impact the outer body will splay itself out in a wide cross instead of breaking up during penetration. Wider surface area on impact = more gross tissue damage, but the penetrator still does its job too so it's sort of a hollowpoint/AP combo round.

Shotshells are a bit simpler. Add a little bit of magic to selectively magnetize the pellets so they stay in a nice tight group during flight.
>>
No. 41081 ID: b1f0e2

>There's no wireless connection on the house grounds because they're in the middle of fucking nowhere and cell phone towers don't have an unlimited range, nor do they install them in areas where virtually no one lives without reason. Pretty sure it's not magically blocked
Cellphone reception and amen telepathy both become available at the exact same spot... immediately outside house grounds.
Towers have quite a bit of range on them and they aren't in the middle of nowhere they are in the middle of a highly industrialized western nation.

>I suspect anything which reminds her that there's another Camella out there which the world thinks is the real one would be more likely to inspire hurt feelings than anything else. Let's not risk it.

>Cellular repeater
That would work too... if it isn't magically blocked as I suspect.

Also, there is a good chance that they have considered it before but have no desire for it. Maybe markku doesn't want such things. So ask einrick before making such suggestions to him.
>>
No. 41108 ID: 7df8c9

I've been thinking about gift ideas for Camella. The GatMalite isn't good as a gift because she'll never really be able to use it. Art from this version of her is bad because it's a reminder of everything she's lost. So, my idea is - considering she was using the Right Laine up until it was destroyed - buy her a car! It would be pretty great to go "hey, I got you a christmas gift" and hand her the keys to a nice, non-crappy car.
>>
No. 41134 ID: 723705

So, it's now the 24th in-game, is there any kind of consensus about what gifts to get and how to deliver them?
>>
No. 41200 ID: 698cb2

Will anything special happen if Armas eats his own body parts?
>>
No. 41207 ID: 739cd1

From discussion with Bob:

[02:30] <Alratan> There's a reason I want to get him a spirit animal such as either Keihas or a Sceadugenga
[02:30] <Alratan> to make him even mor eunique
[02:30] <Alratan> particularly Keihas
[02:30] <CaptainJarhead> Keihas is best without doubt
[02:30] <CaptainJarhead> because spirit animals don't have forms
[02:30] <CaptainJarhead> but she long ago lost hers
[02:30] <Alratan> as she's a human soul creating a chimera from multiple magical beasts
[02:30] <Alratan> and presumably she can contimnue to do so
[02:31] <Alratan> but as she has no body now, she still counts as a valid target
[02:31] <CaptainJarhead> yup
[02:32] <CaptainJarhead> and it gives you further ownership of the blood in her building form that is the basis of your tenuous control of the entity known as Amen
[02:34] <Alratan> Sounds good
[02:56] <Alratan> A quick check - if we bind Keihas, she's still going to live in the rifle and eat things, like Dirt Snake can still go out exploring
[02:56] <Alratan> I suppose we'll just have to keep the rifle inside ShadowBro when not in use
[02:58] <CaptainJarhead> not... entirely
[02:58] <CaptainJarhead> she can't leave the wood of the stock, ever
[02:58] <CaptainJarhead> but she can try to build that wood into something else by saturating it with stuff
[02:58] <Alratan> so use the wood as a spinal column, for example
[02:59] <CaptainJarhead> right
[02:59] <CaptainJarhead> or a stick up her ass
[02:59] <Alratan> as a spirit "animal", the rifle would have to stay close to use
[03:00] <CaptainJarhead> correct

My conclusion from this is that:
a) Keihas can become a spirit animal
b) Becoming a spirit animal doesn't hinder Keihas' development into a flesh titan or the recovery of her own mind.
c) Our control of Amen isn't as secure as it should be.

In conclusion, we should learn how to do this, and do it post haste. Getting the knowledge out of BC seems important for this, but so does having a strong soul. As we may need to donate some of our soul to her, as we did with ShadowBro, it might actually help her accumulation of magic.
>>
No. 41238 ID: 44766a

Hey Bob, Would having the power of 5 Einherjar plus Armus' healing ability give him a crude version of Bang's abilities (excluding the Possibility Cells)?
>>
No. 41242 ID: 41fb6c

I'm very disappointed in the lack of enthusiasm from most posters with regards to Armas' giving of christmas gifts. To be honest, it makes Armas feel inhuman, in a way, when all the posters make him think about is increasing his power. The only times, so far, where he hasn't felt more than a little like a villain have been when he was looking after Camella, and when he has tried to help the kids cope with losing their father. I'm fine with the pranks he plays, that's just character. But when he's in a sense mortgaging his soul and humanity to all these various supernatural entities in exchange for that little bit more of power , he loses any sense of heroism that he has about him, and that kind of ruins it for me. I doubt most of the other posters feel similarly, given the way the story usually goes, but I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything - I just wish Armas could be a little more real. Anyway, back to the reason I was originally intending to post about: given the timeless, or time-varying nature of the Nevernever, would it be possible for us to, via SM, send our christmas gifts out so that they arrive, say, yesterday?
>>
No. 41259 ID: 44766a

I think Armus' Id might have used his 10 grand to send Christmas presents. I mean the kids got a bunch of presents from Armus, right? Also, there were a ton of suggestions for presents.
>>
No. 41261 ID: aa66a4

>>351042
ID!Armas, which was our deepest, darkest desires fueling our body, got a pair of orphans some toys.

What does that say about him?
>>
No. 41262 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351042
I see Armas constantly chasing power as a serious personality flaw more than anything else- he's on an obsessive path of confronting things he shouldn't be and making mad gambles to climb to extreme heights of ability at ridiculous speed. Something fucked up in his mind is forcing him forward, unable to stop, and one day it's probably going to get him killed.

I also tend to think better of Armas when he's busying himself with aspects of life other than that, though. Things like cooking for fun, teasing friends, buying presents, and what have you are the better side of his personality.

>>351061
Actually, I think that our id was a shockingly nice guy. He didn't do any murder or rape and all damage seems to have been incidental. My guess is that Armas doesn't really harbor a lot of nastiness in him; he does a lot of nasty things but those are because of the compulsive issues mentioned above, not because he enjoys them.

Upon reflection, Armas is remarkably nonviolent unless there's a plan that calls for it. He avoids fighting and tries to make friends most of the time, unless he's got someone earmarked as an enemy. The confrontation with the mercenary crew pulling guns and the one with that bounty hunter who was chasing us when we were with Grigori come to mind.
>>
No. 41280 ID: 3fd4fb

For some reason the new thread gives me a 404 when I click the "Reply" link on the main page. Not sure what's going on there; URL seems fine.
>>
No. 41281 ID: 71baf1

>>351080
If I had to guess, a mod decided against a part 2 thread and merged them.
>>
No. 41314 ID: aa66a4

REGARDING SILJA AND AMEN

IF Amen is such an enormous risk, not just to ourselves but to all of the holdings of several creatures in Istanbul and beyond, it might be worth asking around about how it might be solved. Namely, approaching it in such a way that addresses that if Amen is released, SM loses a shitload of contacts, the Masquerade is in huge danger, and the world at large is going to be real torchy and pitchforky with certain tactical devices of the nuclear variety.

Theretofore, it is in EVERYONE'S best interests to bind the sucker more securely, not just ours. Millions of lives are not chump change to anyone - even Mammon or other demons would likely prefer they live to be tempted. And a Dragon, if one is in the area, probably wouldn't like to be murdered. (since Einrik survived an encounter with one, and Amen is far more powerful, it's just as likely that Amen could kill one)

All told - Amen's a scourge, and we have the social traits needed to turn the world to defending itself, also freeing up Silja from slavery and maybe even getting contacts to working out how to make her intelligent instead of a rampaging monster.
>>
No. 41323 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351114
Difficulty with this: It involves letting powerful people other than us in on the problem and details of the situation. We've kept exactly how our hold on Amen works fairly secret from most people; if it gets out, everyone will want to snatch Silja. And most of the power groups you mention wouldn't even blink at doing much nastier things than binding her soul as a servant in order to ensure that Amen was theirs to use.
>>
No. 41329 ID: aa66a4

>>351123
Yeah, I'm aware.

I'm just really disliking this lose/lose situation here. There has to be a way to stop it - to keep Silja sane, to keep Amen bound, to avoid enslaving her. It's just not readily appaerent, but that doesn't mean we should give up and say "well, that is that".
>>
No. 41360 ID: 9023e1

How about having Silja make a deal/contract with us? Some form of restriction in her usage of Amen and have her relay our orders to Amen? I'm sure SM knows of a way to force someone to abide by a contract. Wizards and witches could surely do this as well.
Downside is she presumably need to already be sentient to do this.
>>
No. 41361 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351160
Problem is, when she becomes sentient we will lose control of Amen, giving him the opportunity to do whatever he wants. She will likely be insane due to decades of sensory deprivation powered through by sheer regret and being marinated in the blood and flesh of dozens if not hundreds of people and magical creatures. Amen might well find her easy to manipulate into ordering him to do almost anything he wants before we're able to convince her to make contract with us. And that's assuming that she'll be someone we can deal with in the first place- it's entirely possible that she'll be utterly batshit and impossible to talk to reasonably, or that she'll be hostile and unwilling to bargain with us at all.

Basically, we can try what you propose- but there's a hell of a lot of risk there.

>>351129
We don't know if she's sane at all right now, so keeping her that way might well be a lost cause before we even start. Honestly, I seriously doubt she is- sanity seems more a weakness than anything else when it comes to surviving decades of sensory deprivation and feasting on the blood of others.

We need a more viable alternative than those presented thus far if we're not going to bind her. Binding her is a rather nasty thing to do (assuming that one considers a nonsapient soul a person) but it would work. I'm more than willing to move towards something more PR-friendly, but we need to do so while avoiding risk.
>>
No. 41380 ID: aa66a4

>>351161
The problem is we don't know a viable alternative. At one point someone suggested looking for one, and was shot down with, and I qoute, "name a way to do it". Yes, someone asked to look for information and was shot down because he didn't have said information.

As it stands, yes, we do not know a way out.


That is why we LOOK for one instead of relying only on our incredibly limited breadth of knowledge at this point.
>>
No. 41389 ID: 9023e1

>>351161
Yeah its risky. And really difficult to make less risky.

We need:
-a place where Amen cannot intervene. (I'm glad he can't leave the house)
We would have to be able to reach this place as soon as the transformation starts. Temporary Wards we can quickly set up could be possible. Another way would be to set everything up and force Silja to evolve by feeding her something powerful.

-the ability to form a binding contract or someone who does it for us.

-safety measures in case she is uncooperative. (allied forces/antimagic cage/wizards/whatever)

Each one is difficult do get, especially because people like Zosimus could simply take Silja and bind her to themself.




I'm sure there a easier way to go without enslaving her but this was my first line of thought. Maybe we could make her our spirit animal and release her if it proves to be secure?
>>
No. 41397 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351180
>That is why we LOOK for one instead of relying only on our incredibly limited breadth of knowledge at this point.
My understanding of how making complex things happen in Bob's quests implies to me that you need to offer more than this to be successful.

As I understand it, basically to make something complex and magical intentionally happen in-game, we can sketch out what we think could/want to have happen OOC, together with supporting thoughts for why it might work and how we might feasibly undertake it IC. Then Bob generally says "yes you could do that" or "no, you're off base, it works like this". Based on this logic, "name a way to do it" would be a viable, if somewhat curt, response. Things don't always happen because they're part of a predetermined magical structure in-game; sometimes it's because they've been prearranged OOC between the player and GM because it was judged desirable and/or awesome. This is a repeating pattern in the IRC logs, or at least what I've read of them, and to a more limited extent the dis thread.

Just saying "we need to look for a solution!" is effectively saying "we should spend time IC trying to get Bob to give us the answers we want". Even if we wanted to use that method, unless we have a specific plan on where and how to look for answers- that is, a specific course of action which would let us research this matter more thoroughly and open up options- it's basically avoiding coming up with a solution ourselves.

So essentially what I'm saying here is, if you want a solution other than enslaving Silja, make up something that might work using your own creativity and try to work out the flaws OOC until we have confirmation that it could, and then use that information to try and make it happen IC.

>>351189
I suspect that enslaving a soul in the spirit animal fashion is fundamental enough that it's quite permanent once done. I mean, anything can probably be undone by hacking off chunks of both souls, but that's a pretty extreme way to hit the undo button.

If we can get Silja to awaken in a secure location, we might be able to pull something. Personally, I'm wondering if we can talk to her before she's fully aware, using Shadowbro and Sake's spirit powers to maybe get her into our soul pad and have a conversation or at least sense how she feels. It was said that she's stirring already, even if she's far from aware; such a method might at least get us a tip as to if she'd be cooperative or well-disposed towards us after awakening. In the best case, we might even be able to use it as a location to work out a bargain with her in an actual conversation or something resembling one.
>>
No. 41412 ID: b1f0e2

SUCCESS! I finally remembered what I wanted to post.

Alright, we have gotten to the point where people with ability to sense those things said armas soul is fully healed post shadowbro creation (IIRC it was einrik). Yet his soul is still considered half a soul (see weaselbro).
I posit that armas does not regenerate each half soul into a full one naturally, it is fully healed as a half soul, it is a healed half soul instead of an injured one. Think of it as having a bloody stump vs a nub covered in skin and scar tissue. So, something to think about. However, it might still regrow just not count as "healing"? I am not sure here, worth looking into a way to regrow soul. Waitiri should be the place to start since last time she ate most of armas soul and replaced it with a graft of her own. As a result armas now counts as having a divine soul, to the point where he was rejecting hilvi's mortal healing but thrived under divinity healing.
>>
No. 41414 ID: b1f0e2

>The problem is we don't know a viable alternative. At one point someone suggested looking for one, and was shot down with, and I qoute, "name a way to do it". Yes, someone asked to look for information and was shot down because he didn't have said information.

That would be me and the way you present it is taking it out of context. There were some accusations flung of the amorality of the posters who even could come up with such an evil plan, and culminating in the named sentence.
We were discussing a morally abhorrent but necessary for greater good thing which was making me at least feel bad enough when suddenly someone walks up and accuses us of being evil people IRL for even thinking of such an evil thing. So I snapped back with a "NAME ONE" in frustration...

>>/quest/338413
>>/quest/338428
>>/quest/338441
>>/quest/338449
>>/quest/338455
The exact sentence I said was:
>As I said, NAME ONE. I don't want to do this but so far it is the only plan ANYONE put forth.

As >>351197 points out, bob doesn't hand out solutions, you need to suggest a plan and if it doesn't seem too outlandish you would be able to fill in missing pieces / find corrections for it in character.

And furthermore, if we start blabbing about how we got amen "secured" we would have a rush of very VERY powerful beings coming to take Silja and bind it to themselves.
>>
No. 41418 ID: b1f0e2

>>351212
I was asked to reference where sake says armas has half a soul...

>>/quest/337252
>[Sake]"It's... nice to have something that can hear the words of my soul again-entertaining as snickering at shenanigans may be, one develops a love of verbiage as centuries pass. Now, Possession: It is simply the only means by which I can express any of the power in my soul, now that I am long since dead. Our combined ids used my power directly through your body by abusing the fact that at the time, it didn't really have a soul in it-so long as your soul is even partly in your flesh though, I could not provide you any personal power-any attempt to do so would pit your half-soul against my tri-soul... and I think you can guess how that would end, brother. Which is why I suggest you find me a new corporeal form to possess."
>>
No. 41435 ID: d1d5d4

I was thinking about weaponizing shadowbro, rather, this just came to me out of the blue sky while thinking about nothing related to GFH.

Very small, light, shards of metal layered across your shadow. About half cm at it's largest dimension.
Just layer them on your shadow and shadowbro can carry them around or use micro teleports to move them.

Then he just Arcs them to use as a weapon, like that chick/man with the blood. Or he can make spikes out of them or such.

If this proves difficult, we can ask SM about treatments to make your shadow better able to manipulate the physical and/or treatments for his eventual metaphysical weapon.
>>
No. 41441 ID: c959e0

In fact, the more I think about it, I think some kind of opaque fluid would be best.
Maybe blood.
Maybe magical blood for ease of use.

For reference, Bob, I'm asking if those can work.

>Silja
Crazy ideas abound.
She has a soul right?
Order Amen to awaken her chakras and align them to awaken a soul shadow. This will allow you to 'talk' to Silja without having her in actual possession of the blood.
The nature of Shadows means that shadowSilja will likely not be batshit or at the very least, calm.

You can use her as a measure for flesh Silja's mindset and you can probably enlist her help in convincing Fleshy to help you with Amen when she comes out.

I would suggest doing this, if it s feasable, closer to the awakening than now, but not enough for fleshy conversation so that we can get a more accurate measure of her soul at that point and Amen won't be able to manipulate her just yet.
(though I am worried about the source of the shadow's knowledge, if Fleshy dosn't remember speech yet, will Shadow Silja?)
>>
No. 41443 ID: aa66a4

>>351241
This is one idea I actually like. Shadow - Armas seems to have higher-level social/thinking traits than we do, is more calm and reasonable. We can almost certainly rely on him to do 'the right thing'.

There are very few 'trustworthy' individuals we can name, and even fewer who are knowledgeable about this. About the only one is Einrik, and we've already asked him. His reply is what got me onto this whole damn tirade in the first place.

However, Sometimes Merchant already knows about how Amen is bound. If we swear him to confidentiality on the matter and ask him to seek out an individual who can help without torturing Silja, that might turn up something useful.

Or we could find some way to send Amen's mansion into space, or something.
>>
No. 41447 ID: c959e0

>>/quest/339339
3x3=9
339339
33(3(3))33(3(3))

Man if only it cubed.
I don't even know what this will do (inb4 nothing)
>>
No. 41449 ID: 71baf1

I would like to point out that giving Amen enough control of the thing that keeps him bound to awaken and align chakras, and then force it to develop an ability by using the chakras to split the soul, sounds horribly bad. If SM could do it, I wouldn't be opposed to buying that off him though.

Any plan for Silja that relies on Amen's cooperation sounds bad to me.
>>
No. 41450 ID: b1f0e2

>>351249
well spoken, recall that smets and savoy had this whole plan with amen and it didn't work.
>>
No. 41453 ID: aa66a4

>>351250
Well, mainly because we killed one, and shot the other's balls off.
>>
No. 41457 ID: 3be3e0

Couldn't we just order Amen to obey us and ignore orders to ignore us?
>>
No. 41459 ID: b1f0e2

>>351253
Smets left orders for amen to transfer to savoy if he is killed.
We killed smets, amen at that point referred to us and to savoy as "two potential masters" and chose to side with us. Shooting savoy's balls off was hilarious but in no way relevant.

A thought to occurs to me:
armas cannot teleport via shadowbro normally due to nevernever radiation effect on souled beings
but armas was in nevernever during the demon staircase issue
and also during the goblins sneaking training
also, SM is exhibiting the ability to teleport far across the world
>>
No. 41460 ID: b1f0e2

So, knowledge clarification...

>"every time you slay an Einherjar, I shall let you name a facet of Winter, Summer, the Dark or the Nevernever as a whole, even a carefully kept secret-and I will make it yours, for paying me homage with their valiant, entropic deaths. This knowledge may of course be of arcane nature, as well-but know that there is one topic on which I will not answer: Myself, and naught else."

a FACET of winter summer or the dark... OR the nevernever AS A WHOLE. Even a carefully kept secret.
The way I read it is that each time we kill an einher we get to choose one of the following:
1. a facet of winter
2. a facet of summer
3. a facet of the dark
4. NEvernever as a whole
5. A secret, even well kept, except one pertaining to ogrim himself.

So, am I reading this correctly?
>>
No. 41465 ID: 1854db

So apparently everyone decided that hunting Einherjar and taking their bloodline was a good idea until just today when we actually kill one.

Now apparently it's the worst idea ever because the Einherjar bloodline is fucking terrible? WHAT THE FUCK HOW DOES THIS KIND OF BULLSHIT EVEN HAPPEN
>>
No. 41466 ID: b1f0e2

>>351265
I honestly don't know... we researched einherjar and found out:
1. WE WILL NOT become einherjar, we will merely gain their powers.
2. They grant a massive boost to strength, speed, and durability.
3. It is the most powerful bloodline we can get. Unless we kill the valkonens and eat their hearts in which case we get more powerful. If we just get training in their style (via marriage) we will NOT be as strong as us eating einherjar hearts or their hearts.
4. Taking the einherjar powers will serve as a BASE for our winter bloodline. It will aspect it to grant strength, speed, and durability as a BASE upon which more can be built. It does not permanently limit growth.
5. It just now came up that careful blending of some einherjar with some other sources might produce a whole greater then the sum of its parts. but we will have to:
a. Work something out.
b. A lot more work to do it right
c. We still need to get those initial einherjar anyways. There is no question that we need to eat this first one's heart.
>>
No. 41470 ID: a72985

>>351265
>So apparently everyone decided that hunting Einherjar and taking their bloodline was a good idea until just today when we actually kill one.
>Now apparently it's the worst idea ever because the Einherjar bloodline is fucking terrible? WHAT THE FUCK HOW DOES THIS KIND OF BULLSHIT EVEN HAPPEN


Because FUCK YOU, that's why!


But on a serious note, it seems people have found other options more preferable and that Einherjar doesn't really mesh that well with Armas' fighting style.
I am not sure why we can't just change the fighting style to accommodate the new powers.

One of the ideas was to get a Troll bloodline (preferably Ice Troll). It would boosts strength and durability (and maybe even speed) without fucking up our body, would boost our regeneration powers and perhaps will give us supernatural senses.
I am not sure if this idea will work and think we will have to ask Ogrimmir how to do it if we are ever going to have any hope achieving it.

Also, it is possible to have multiple layers of bloodline powers (we have 5x slot, so 5 powers) but it will take LONG, LONG time to achieve it (like 10 threads worth)
>>
No. 41471 ID: 3f12fc

Basically, Einher powers boost strengths and also have the side effect of boositng processing time, and as far s we know that's it.

Now, if you wish to completely change what Armas is like in a fight and turn in him into a strength-based fighter that may be ok, but we also know the Einher power does *not* make you any stronger than the average supernatural being (though layering it may), in fact it would be more like a 'in case things go bad from Einrik's advice).

So, pretty much any other bloodlines that actually play to our strength could be better.

Given the wording of the Deal with Ogrimmir, it's likely he could teach us mortal bloodlines liek Stoic Taoism or that Reflection bloodline, or even a basic "imbue weapon" one might be better than Einher.

Of course, the best bet would currently to try and look for a Ice Troll of the 'monster under the bridge/bed' type, as they should help with Sensing/Strength/Durabilty without cost, but they aren't a "mortal" bloodline, so if we can get it it would probably take more than one slot.
>>
No. 41474 ID: 71baf1

Some specific things I felt like I wanted to address.

>>351266
>They grant a massive boost to strength, speed, and durability.
I wouldn't call the scar tissue a massive boost to durability. Hell, given the way we regenerate limbs, instant scar tissue sounds sort of bad, unless in our case it turns into instant healing. As was noted during the fight, the scar tissue closed off blood vessels as it formed. Blood vessels we would heal by eating something if they didn't scar over. To me, the scar tissue is actually a negative thing from what we've seen. It actually conflicts with our Summer trait.

>It is the most powerful bloodline we can get. Unless we kill the valkonens and eat their hearts in which case we get more powerful. If we just get training in their style (via marriage) we will NOT be as strong as us eating einherjar hearts or their hearts.

We've asked a Weasel who has spent most of his time in a single area of Japan, and Einrik. While Einrik is worldly, I would hardly call that an extensive search. Now, if we were to ask Og, or buy information on Bloodlines from SM, I would call it an extensive search. But so far, we've asked two guys.

>Taking the einherjar powers will serve as a BASE for our winter bloodline. It will aspect it to grant strength, speed, and durability as a BASE upon which more can be built. It does not permanently limit growth.

Given the amount of time it will take to mix in anything else, I'm pretty sure most people are viewing it as locking down our trait.
>>
No. 41478 ID: b1f0e2

>>351274
>Scar
I see no reason why it would cause scars in armas, it accelerated "natural healing" in the einher, armas healing factor used to do that but now makes for impossibly effective healing. I would surmise they would stack.

>Ask og
we need to come up with ideas OOC or this wouldn't work.

>Ice troll
It is true that their focus on regen sounds good. But they are not necessary better then einherjar. They seem to give a similar power set and might be a weaker one.

>Strength no good & einherjar are strength only
Armas highest level combat attributes are close combat. For long range we work entirely off of our guns quality rather then high level combat skills. While we should improve that, we will not get better skill in ranged combat via a bloodline. Armas has plenty of firepower, what he lacks is durability. Boosting strength, speed, endurance, healing, and damage reduction are exactly what armas needs if he is to go toe to toe with supernatural foes. And einherjar are not just strength boosting, the guy wasn't even slowed down by bullet after bullet we plugged into him.
>>
No. 41500 ID: 739cd1

>>351129
>I'm just really disliking this lose/lose situation here. There has to be a way to stop it - to keep Silja sane, to keep Amen bound, to avoid enslaving her. It's just not readily appaerent, but that doesn't mean we should give up and say "well, that is that".

Note that Bob said that Silja is the best spirit animal we can get. It is by no means loose loose.

It's just that you guys are being total hypocrits, less than a week after trapping and doing our damnedest to enslave a sentient being, and having some fair success at tit, you're suddenly having a moral panic at binding a currently non-sentient ghost.

>>351266
>I honestly don't know... we researched einherjar and found out:
>1. WE WILL NOT become einherjar, we will merely gain their powers.
Not true.
>2. They grant a massive boost to strength, speed, and durability.
Not true, there is no significant speed boost.
>3. It is the most powerful bloodline we can get. Unless we kill the valkonens and eat their hearts in which case we get more powerful. If we just get training in their style (via marriage) we will NOT be as strong as us eating einherjar hearts or their hearts.
Not true. We have no information on the relative power of utility of the bloodline options available, or what is available that we aren't currently aware of.
>4. Taking the einherjar powers will serve as a BASE for our winter bloodline. It will aspect it to grant strength, speed, and durability as a BASE upon which more can be built. It does not permanently limit growth.
Again, not true, it doesn't add significantly to speed. Also, it doesn't serve as a base, Armas is currently incapable of layering bloodline powers.
>c. We still need to get those initial einherjar anyways. There is no question that we need to eat this first one's heart.
Why? It profits us little. Close combat is simply a distraction to us. We have been told in quest that even as an Einheir and with ShadowBro having learned as much of the Valkonen style as he can, entering melee with a supernatural enemy is still a last ditch, desperate tactic.

We need to get better at killing our enemies from range, not making then exert themselves before they squish us like a bug up close, rather than do so effortlessly. To do this we need to improve our stealth, speed, perception, and regeneration so we can eventually teleport. The Einherjar power set helps with none of these.

Ogrimir has promised to give us information, we should simply request something like this.

"Detailed instructions on how we can optimally use our winter bloodline to improve our speed, stealth, perception, and regeneration, taking account synergy with our other abilities."

Why lock us into a mere fraction of the possibilities that are sufficiently public knowledge that Einrik or Sake could have heard of, when Ogrimmir has promised to reveal even the most hidden possibilities.
>>
No. 41512 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351300
>Note that Bob said that Silja is the best spirit animal we can get.
What criteria of "best" is being used here? My understanding was that spirit animals in general are a very diverse bunch, and tend to grant extremely specialized powers. Surely she wouldn't eclipse all of them in their areas of expertise- what would she do for us, specifically, and how does it compare to what other spirit animals might do?

>Not true, there is no significant speed boost.
Even if there's no boost to reflexes and reaction time, velocity is proportionate to exerted force. The increased strength should mean that we'll be able to run with far more speed than we can now- probably several times as fast- even if we're wearing the kind of heavy armor that we've used in the past, which has slowed us significantly enough in previous times that we've considered strength training over it.

I don't mean to argue here, just clarifying that "speed boost" is not entirely separate from "strength boost", so that we're all on the same page.

>We have been told in quest that even as an Einheir and with ShadowBro having learned as much of the Valkonen style as he can, entering melee with a supernatural enemy is still a last ditch, desperate tactic.
It's a last ditch, desperate tactic that we somehow end up using sometimes. Specifically because they're so superior in melee, the first action of almost every supernatural enemy in combat is to close as quickly as possible. We can't always get in enough shots or prepare the field; sometimes we're going to end up in melee, whether we want to or not. And when we do, the difference between their needing to put in effort and not might well be the difference between our life and death.

Now, our bloodline is an important thing, a fundamental dedication of a huge chunk of power, so you may be right that it's not proper to sink it into what's mostly a melee combat ability. But improving our melee prowess in general is very worthwhile.

Personally, since we have such a hugely powerful bloodline to use, I'd like to blend several abilities together, at least one of which would give us the sort of strength boost that we could have gotten from dedicating our original bloodline to being an Einher. Yes, I know we don't know how to do that right now and it might take a while, but making sure that we have the best bloodline we can get is more than worth the effort. Using an Ogrimir question would be a great way to get the information we need to make that happen.
>>
No. 41530 ID: b1f0e2

>It's just that you guys are being total hypocrits, less than a week after trapping and doing our damnedest to enslave a sentient being, and having some fair success at tit, you're suddenly having a moral panic at binding a currently non-sentient ghost.
I have been considering the "what measure is a non human" since it seems I am the only one even remotely concerned with non human sentients while everyone else seems to consider them food while every human is a sacred cow.

>1. WE WILL NOT become einherjar, we will merely gain their powers.
>Not true.
Yes true, see
>>350609
Where bob said:
>>350608
>MrTT brings up a rather critical distinction, where it comes to your Contract with Ogrimir.
Also read the posts in question for the quotes and what they say about it being the base of our winter bloodline rather then its full power.

>Armas can't layer bloodline
Not yet... give it 10 threads.

> We have been told in quest that even as an Einheir and with ShadowBro having learned as much of the Valkonen style as he can, entering melee with a supernatural enemy is still a last ditch, desperate tactic.
I am pretty sure bob said in IRC we would be able to go toe to toe with doonie in melee with 5 einherjar as our winter base.

>"Detailed instructions on how we can optimally use our winter bloodline to improve our speed, stealth, perception, and regeneration, taking account synergy with our other abilities."
This would be einherjar. The alternative winter bloodlines would aspect it towards completely different things and might actually be better. For example there are winter bloodlines of nullification, and one of "borders"... the borders one will eventually grant us teleportation ability as well as the ability to build an extra dimensional villa as the hub of our teleporting (teleport into villa, teleport out into a place of our choosing in the real world).
And btw, that tempts the hell out of me as an alternative to einherjar.

>Ask ogrimar for bloodline info
Possible, alternatively we could ask him how to learn to teleport.
>>
No. 41532 ID: aabda6

>>351300
>It's just that you guys are being total hypocrits, less than a week after trapping and doing our damnedest to enslave a sentient being, and having some fair success at tit, you're suddenly having a moral panic at binding a currently non-sentient ghost.
I think you are failing to see the distinction between the situation with Sake, and the situation with Silja.

Sake tried to murder Armas, and, because of damage directly resulting from Sake's attacks, created an almost certainly fatal situation for Armas (i.e. the parasite war within his eye). As such, he was an enemy, and therefore it would be perfectly acceptable to Armas' moral code to do his best to subjugate Sake.

However, in Silja's case, there are only potentials, with no instances between her and Armas from which a grudge (from Armas' side) would arise. In addition, she currently is at least much more on the 'friendly' side of the 'friend/enemy' spectrum for Armas than enemy; she counts as an ally/friend/entity with a favorable impression of Armas.

The distinction is that of 'enemy with whom I have a grudge/friendly entity that may grow up to be an enemy (possibly depending on environment)' and not 'sentient being/non-sentient ghost'.

...At least, from my perspective. Others probably have a different view.
>>
No. 41533 ID: cd63e9

>>351300

also what we did with sake was less enslaving and more bonding. while we are the senor partner in the arrangement we can't force him to do anything he doesn't want to do. making Silja our spirit animal would mean enslaving her soul.

there may also be an alternative we have not considered. the sometimes mercht could probably extract the blood from Keihäs. we can probably cover the cost of extraction and then some by letting him become amen's new master. as useful as amen is we don't know nearly enough about him to use him safely, so at he's more of a liability than an asset.
>>
No. 41535 ID: b1f0e2

>>351333
IIRC that was the first thing we considered. The moment the blood is extracted from keihas amen is free.
>>
No. 41537 ID: 739cd1

>>351333
>also what we did with sake was less enslaving and more bonding. while we are the senor partner in the arrangement we can't force him to do anything he doesn't want to do. making Silja our spirit animal would mean enslaving her soul.
We tried and failed to utterly enslave Sake, and we then forced him to agree to obey any command that wasn't antithetical to his nature. He's a slave by any fair definition.
>there may also be an alternative we have not considered. the sometimes mercht could probably extract the blood from Keihäs. we can probably cover the cost of extraction and then some by letting him become amen's new master. as useful as amen is we don't know nearly enough about him to use him safely, so at he's more of a liability than an asset.
We considered this. We command Amen because Smets is still, basically, alive as part of Keihas/Silja. If extracted, he will die, and Amen will become unbound. This is very, very bad.

>>351330
>This would be einherjar. The alternative winter bloodlines would aspect it towards completely different things and might actually be better. For example there are winter bloodlines of nullification, and one of "borders"... the borders one will eventually grant us teleportation ability as well as the ability to build an extra dimensional villa as the hub of our teleporting (teleport into villa, teleport out into a place of our choosing in the real world).
And btw, that tempts the hell out of me as an alternative to einherjar.
This is all wrong. Einherjar doesn't improve our regeneration (as far as teleportation is concerned), it doesn't improve the kind of speed we're interested in (for shooting or dodging), it doesn't help perception, it doesn't help stealth. Borders does not help with teleportation.

>>351312
>What criteria of "best" is being used here? My understanding was that spirit animals in general are a very diverse bunch, and tend to grant extremely specialized powers. Surely she wouldn't eclipse all of them in their areas of expertise- what would she do for us, specifically, and how does it compare to what other spirit animals might do?
Silja can eat other supernatural creatures, and so can keep on adding additional capabilities to herself. As a spirit animal, we can quite possibly inherit these features. This is probably why Bob said she was best, as she isn't hyperspecialised like normal spirit animals, she can grow, evolve, and change.
>>
No. 41539 ID: b1f0e2

Alright, I tracked down the EXACT wording of our deal with ogrim... and interestingly he refers to us as "soon-to-be-immortal despite explicitly saying he doesn't believe we can... maybe I am reading too much into it but I get the feeling he is NOT tightly bound to adhering to the letter of the agreement, and is powerful enough we don't want to piss off anyways so lets NOT piss him off by trying wanton exploitation... It CAN hurt to ask, very much so.
However, we shouldn't assume that every request is exploiting, so we shouldn't be too afraid to properly leverage the deal's terms.

>>331460
>"...Well well-I suppose I shall have to accept that then. For the 'lofty reward' of a soon-to-be-immortal's service one week per season for three and ten years, and for Soul-Swearing to slay any Einherjar you encounter for the same period, I shall restore your winter Node, I shall empower both your body and your Soul Shadow's Winter attributes until they are five times the standalone Mortal capacity limit, gift you the passive ability to sense any Einherjar within a league of your position, imbue you with supernatural resistance to cold to go with your perceptual resistance, briefly enter your Soul-Shadow and converse with your other self at a time of your choosing and invoking to share my thoughts on his Wintrish works, and to reward you with any information you desire from the fields of the Winter or Summer Court, The Dark, The Nevernever as a whole, and in general anything but myself each time you slay an Einherjar. Now, what do you say to my offer? Incidentally, while impressive haggling up to this point I believe my presence is going to stop your heart in eight seconds-so choose swiftly."
>>
No. 41540 ID: b1f0e2

>Borders = Teleportation
I was positive that bob said yes to that, but today he had this to say:

<MrTT> bob, so you said yesterday that borders winter bloodline will let us teleport
<MrTT> right?
<MrTT> cause as awesomesauce as einherjar powers sound, teleport is WIN!
<TheBeardiestBob> No-people kept SAYING that's what it does. I did not comment on it.
<Samar> I thought you said with enough training we could make pockets in the never never or something
<TheBeardiestBob> yeah, but the same applies to shadow powers in general
<TheBeardiestBob> it's not like you could do it JUST BECAUSE you have border fun times
>>
No. 41542 ID: 0ecfc7

>>351340
I mean it's not like we could, say manipulate borders to create NN-ray proofed tinfoil or such.
>>
No. 41543 ID: b1f0e2

We might be able to do so with borders...
he did say
><TheBeardiestBob> yeah, but the same applies to shadow powers in general
So it could mean that shadowbro OR borders could let us teleport, and that he didn't comment on it yesterday doesn't mean it CAN'T do it
>>
No. 41544 ID: 4c28a6

In all seriousness I cannot see the huge problem with making Silja our Spirit Animal.
Sure we should try not to enslave the remains of a former human soul born of murder bound to an instrument of murder for decades, which EATS other humans and pretty much everything it can get entirely (as far as I can tell both body and soul!) and simply begins to gain sentience by virtue of having eaten enough magical and sentient creatures. (I don't even mean to be sarcastic I posted the suggestion to make a contract instead myself)

However making her a Spirit Animal seems to be the lesser evil because:

- All other posted plans are risky one way or the other (and we should not take any risks with Amen)

- Being a slave is only bad if you cannot do things you want to do. Considering her background as a probably barely human soul which was bound to a weapon for a long time I don't think there are many things it/she wants to do. Might be simple stuff like going on a murderous rampage because she/it became insane. In which case we did the right thing and would have stopped her anyways.
Or she/it might want to meet her descendants or something which we could help with so no problem with enslaving her as well. Most likely she/it is used to be a weapon and has really simple desires anyway.

- Being our Spirit Animal means security for her as well. We already thought about others who might want to steal and use her to control Amen. Others who have no qualms about enslaving her. Others who would not be a 'nice' master. Sooner or later people WILL know that Amen is under her control. If we bind her to ourselfs others cannot bind her to them (I think).

---> I think enslaving it/her is bad but not as bad as some seem to think if we try to be a 'nice' master.
>>
No. 41545 ID: b1f0e2

>>351344
well articulated and I tend to agree
>>
No. 41551 ID: 4c28a6

>>351340
I thought that we already had the ability to teleport. Problem is it would kill us without protection for our souls.
Staying within a being of shadow (shadowbro) and using our chakra points to seal our soul was how we managed to protect our souls enough to teleport (plus whatever the Weaselwine did). Borders sounds like it would help protect our souls.

If we were to level Shadowbro enough up he would probably learn how to protect us from the nevernever because it is an remote and advanced aspect of shadowmagic while leveling Borders up enough would let us teleport by traveling the border between our world and NN and protecting us.

Either power alone would need to be really powerful for teleportation however and be more of a side effect of all the stuff said power can do at the time it is achieved. If we want gain teleportation before long we need both.
Therefore I vote for getting Borders as a bloodline power sooner or later.

>>351345
Thanks
>>
No. 41558 ID: b1f0e2

>>351351
>teleport
We don't have the ability to teleport. Our soulless body COULD teleport if MASSIVELY drains a non renewable resource of massive power (weasel wine).
Shadowbro can teleport some things but takes great damage from teleporting magical stuff (so no tele-defenses), and we can't just teleport while retaining control.

>Og
It occurs to me, when we asked for knowledge from Og he was so impressed and liked us enough that rather then alter the deal to replace power for knowledge he just ADDED knowledge to what he gives us without diminishing the power aspect at all. He is also capable of sarcasm so we can't assume he cannot lie / break a deal if it suits his desires and/or needs. As such our best bet is to remain on his good side, rather then rule lawyering, try to impress him.

>Questions
There are TONS of things to ask, we should prioritize by:
1. How likely we are to find it via a cheaper source.
2. How immediate the need is for that knowledge (the most immediate ones are amen binding and our winter bloodline)
3. How valuable that bit of knowledge is. (not all knowledge is of equal value).

Now, phrasing. If we tie the winter bloodline question into showing ourselves to be "tempering the quest for power with knowledge" then the phrasing follows naturally "We ask for sufficient knowledge about winter bloodlines so that we may choose how to best aspect our currently blank one".

Silja/amen is more problematic as Og places no value on human souls. Also she is a raging spirit motivated by hate and anger and turning into a flesh titan so she herself is a potential danger... she is also our most powerful weapon. Do we then ask on how to bind her in a more gentle manner? (what actually is the exact issue with big crazys binding method? if we allow her to exercise some measure of free will when it doesn't come to amen and or going on a rampage). Or do we ask how to transfer ownership of amen to ourselves? And what stipulations on each? (without destroying silja? within our means? all methods? all methods within our means?)
>>
No. 41560 ID: b1f0e2

Options that have come up so far in IRC:
1. Bloodline choosing knowledge
2. Amen binding knowledge (we don't even have to ask how to bind silja, ask directly about amen specifying "all methods to safely bind amen")
3. Knowledge that will bring us great wealth (location of unclaimed natural resources like oil or gold, etc)
4. Knowledge of where all einherjar are and their powers.
5. Knowledge of how to safely teleport (related to bloodline question)
6. Knowledge of where and when, in the next year, can we find a trapped powerful being that is not too terrible to release who would thank us with great amounts of knowledge, power, or service for freeing it. Or a dying one who would thank us for saving it.
>>
No. 41571 ID: 3fd4fb

>>/quest/340163
Posting this here as it's not strictly relevant to our current topic and I have paranoia about our Paranoia trait going off whenever I talk about possible dangers.

Every time we sell information about ourselves and our activities to Sometimes Merchant, I wonder if we're being incredibly foolish. If someone meets his price they could buy a huge amount of information on our capabilities, contacts, and history. Admittedly at the moment we don't really have enough enemies for it to bite us in the ass- and those we do have are unlikely to know about our connection with him, or have better ways of getting that information- notably, Amen has been in our head, knows pretty much everything we know, and I'm pretty sure he chats it up with a certain Zosimus regularly so that security breach is way bigger already, even counting the fact that Amen and Sometimes Merchant are cutting unknown deals.

Still, give it a year or two or five or twenty, and it's likely that someone will find that a worthwhile channel to exploit. Even this upcoming auction that we're planning; since the goblins are facilitating any of the bidders might ask them for information on the one selling the artifact, and he would likely sell it as long as he was pretty sure it wouldn't get us killed and thereby cease the flow of power from our gate bargain. He has an interest in keeping us around, but it's based far more in business than liking us.

So at some point, we're going to want to try to take steps to secure Sometimes Merchant's loyalty or silence regarding us. A simple deal or two would probably cover it.
>>
No. 41572 ID: b1f0e2

>>351371
Given a high enough price he would sell it to our enemies. However, we are making it increasingly beneficial for him to keep us around (nevernever strikes) and also we simply cannot afford NOT to sell him the info. Making any stipulation on what he can do with it lowers its value. I would rather deal with an enemy that knows our history and powers than have no history and powers. The goblins pay too much for us NOT to trade it to them.
And we are being at least somewhat cautious with some info, for example we have actually removed shadowbro's name from our own mind to ensure it remains secret.

However, some deals to further secure their loyalty wouldn't go amiss. I am thinking one of reporting, that is, a deal to tell us exactly who buys info about us.
>>
No. 41578 ID: c959e0

Maybe we should ask Amen to tell us all the 'safe' information relating to himself and his past and ask him what he personally desires for teh future with the stipulation that he be perfectly honest and straightforward with his answer sho he doesn't pull a 'creative wording' thing.

I find myself wondering what he is all about and I don't want to make the mistake to thinking 'demon king' when he is really just 'wrong place, wrong time, had sex with the overlords daughter in his newly created temple' kind of deal.

Information is needed and what better place than straight from the horses mouth (other than the riders mouth of course but that may prove difficult/dangerous/dangerously difficult)
>>
No. 41579 ID: c959e0

So no answer about shadows manipulating opaque fluids as weapons?
>>
No. 41580 ID: b1f0e2

>>351378
A long time ago a phraoe was a wizard, he was also a god making him even more powerful then a normal wizard.
A cabal of magic practitioners who hated him designed a construct being, a construct of pure hate. As soon as they created it, it killed them, it then absorbed their minds and gained sentience and a baseline personality. Their hate of the pharoe was so strong that immediately amen took off to kill him. He succeeded in killing the wizard-god, but in the process was damaged severely. As he was reforming some hundreds years later a simple man, smets ancestor, tried to nurse him back to health. Such an act of kindness is antethical to amen's existance and would have resulted in unmaking him, to preserve himself he has bound himself as the servant of the family as payment, nullifying the act of kindness and preserving his own life. Fast forward a lot of generations and the last of bloodline is smets, turned vampire, consumed by armas' gun.
>>
No. 41582 ID: b1f0e2

TMI pointed out a correction to the story I posted based on his chat logs which he copy pasted into IRC and I now present to you.

<TMIoverload> roblem is that when made it of course went berserk and murdered the cabal, subsuming them into it's essence-and crafting its psyche from the tatters of their minds. It was then driven by it's first real thought, that being to fulfill the mission it was created for, since it meant so much to the minds it was now effectively made of. and Amen was built to be the antithesis of that. So, to...
<TMIoverload> ...prevent that kindness from poisoning and unmaking it's existence, it bound itself to Sisuthros' blood, to ensure there was no way the aid could be considered a boon-but merely part of a trade.
<TMIoverload> Amen bound himself so he could kill the Wizard without having it be helpful
>>
No. 41583 ID: 71baf1

>>351380
That's innacurate. This is exactly what we were told based on my logs.

"Amen was created by a cabal of Egyptian practitioners that wanted to topple a particular pharoah that was not only semi-divine due to their cultural beliefs-but was a damn Wizard too. So they sought to make something that could best it. Amen is The Hidden One, the manifestation of psychological corruption and bitter hatred-or was that originally. roblem is that when made it of course went berserk and murdered the cabal, subsuming them into it's essence-and crafting its psyche from the tatters of their minds. It was then driven by it's first real thought, that being to fulfill the mission it was created for, since it meant so much to the minds it was now effectively made of. and Amen was built to be the antithesis of that. So, to prevent that kindness from poisoning and unmaking it's existence, it bound itself to Sisuthros' blood, to ensure there was no way the aid could be considered a boon-but merely part of a trade."
>>
No. 41589 ID: 3fd4fb

So, we can sacrifice 40% of our bloodline to provide a buffer between three different normal-strength powers. Can we sacrifice 20% of our bloodline to provide a buffer between only two different double-strength powers? That would leave us with a hell of a lot of power and still grant three times as much versatility as anyone else gets.

Does our shadow automatically get the same bloodline powers as us, since we're the only one with actual blood to work with, or can it get an entirely separate set, one perhaps more appropriate for its nature? I don't know how much good super-strength would do a creature with no physical body, for example.


And speaking of these powers, ice troll has started getting thrown around, as has border manipulation; I assume that these have been discussed on IRC and their details disseminated? Could a log of this be posted for the benefit of those of us not present? We have more bloodline options at the moment than we do slots to fill even if we go with the full composite option, so knowing the different characteristics of each is critical to making an informed and intelligent choice.
>>
No. 41590 ID: 71baf1

>>351389
Boundary is something Sake told us about. Some extra details has been given in IRC though. Ice Troll has not been discussed.

Too lazy for logs, but with serious mojo backing it, Gate Strike level mojo guided by a master, it can manipulate the boundary of life and death, and other metaphysical concepts. The example Bob said was standard, was someone shooting through a doorway, an established boundary, and having the bullet come out the window right next to the guy.
>>
No. 41595 ID: b1f0e2

IRC log:
<MrTT> so, are we going einher / borders / semi shaman?
<MrTT> or borders / winter troll / nullifcation (stoic taoism)
<Grail> I'm inclined towards Sami Shamanism because we can probably get the required heart as we leave.
<Guile> except we dont know how to make a composite, of course
<Grail> Of course, but you can at least grab the materials on the way out
<MrTT> that also means we could probably eat the einher heart right now...
<MrTT> although, that might mess with blending
<MrTT> and we will have to get another one anyways
<Grail> Hm, I don't think it would since a single heart only fills one slot
<Grail> Don't see how a filled slot would prevent two others from being used as buffers
<MrTT> yea but maybe the buffering slots have to be filled first
<MrTT> but i doubt it
<Grail> Suppose we could ask Einrik
<TheBeardiestBob> it's one slot, five wide, not five slots
<TheBeardiestBob> difference


Ok, so it IS possible that eating an einher heart fully aspects the 5 wide slot, just not fully saturates it and it requires 4 more.
Although that doesn't mean we couldn't layer it later with a question to ogrimar. It could be that bob was just correcting the incorrect assumption that it is 5 separate slots without intending to weigh in one way or another.
>>
No. 41596 ID: 20a63e

Ah, so engine of pure hate. Gotcha.

Hmm, maybe we can manage an engine of pure love to have a go at him.
...
Nah, Armas can't comprehend that
>>
No. 41597 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351396
>Nah, Armas can't comprehend that
Of course he can. Love is that one emotion that makes you want to work for people without getting paid.
>>
No. 41598 ID: b1f0e2
File 131347715499.png - (284.76KB , 720x1152 , 8bit love.png )
41598

>>351396
Hey there, love is a very powerful force fuel
>>
No. 41602 ID: 1854db

Okay so yeah I still think this is total bullshit because nobody is even posting why other stuff besides Einherjar would be better, or VALID reasons why Einherjar is bad.
>>
No. 41603 ID: 3fe645

>>351402
It's not bad. I like it. I just think that combining it with other bloodlines would be even better.
>>
No. 41614 ID: aa66a4

>>351402
Because we know jack fucking shit! To put it bluntly, eating the heart now could really easily fuck us over. It could decimate the possibility of compound bloodlines, ruin a chance for better regen and make our current regen work in a way that hurts us, it could very easily ruin any chances of getting jobs from MOTHERFUCKING ONE-EYE HIMSELF, and there's a whole host of awesome bloodlines we don't even know about.

Unless you can tell me, and the rest of /quest/, that eating the heart will have none of these consequences, we're not noshing down yet.
>>
No. 41616 ID: b1f0e2

>>351414
bob did confirm that einher regen will give us much more staying power in combat and that out of combat our summer regen will heal scar tissue into proper tissue
>>
No. 41621 ID: c959e0

>>/quest/340702
>Give Helmi her spear back
I was under the impression that it was a gift and a symbol of completing/knowing/mastering Kas Pin that just happened to be presented by her (possibly at her own insistence).
>>
No. 41630 ID: a76809

>>351414
Actually, Armas is doing whatever the majority opinion is, barring posters using multiple IDs to multi-post.

And, you know, if anyone had QUESTIONS... last I checked this is the discussion thread.

Incidentally, there IS no answer to 'what's the best bloodline' there are only answers to 'given that this is what I want to do, what bloodline would be best suited to this?'

And even then I would not contextualize the answer relative to Armas and his preferences.

That means-ask EXACTLY what you want to know, and I'll answer. As you may have noticed, those who ask broader questions rarely get the answer they want-partly due to their being too much data to respond with.
>>
No. 41631 ID: cd63e9

I have a few questions actually about the ethinjar heart,

1. if we ate it now would it ruin our chance to build a compound bloodline later?

2. would we have the strength, speed and regnration as Gunner Almquist right away or would we have to work to develop our abilities?

3. could you give us a rough estimate of how strong/fast/durable we would be if we ate 5 ethinjar hearts?
>>
No. 41632 ID: d3dfb8

Bob, about Armas's cannibal ability, does it work like the normal human digestive system? Does it leave behind magic it doesn't use like the normal digestive system leaves behind nutrients? If so, could we use his shit as a fertilizer for magical plants?
>>
No. 41633 ID: a76809

>>351431
First-seriously, it's Einherjar, or Einher, when referencing an individual. The spelling is not hard, and has not a single letter 'T' in it anywhere.
As to your question:

1: No, but you didn't make this question specific enough. If you asked 'if we ate it now would it ruin our chance to build a compound bloodline later using the method Ogrimir was proposing?' the answer would be YES. See why I said be specific with your questions?

2: Again, not specific enough-do you mean just as is, raw strength comparison, do you mean relative to body size, do you mean relative to body size, age and muscle density? I can't even answer this one because I don't know what specific criteria you are judging this comparison of strength by.

3: No I can't, because it's dependent on Armas in several ways, among them his soul's state and physical condition, and it's fairly unlikely NOTHING will happen with Armas along the way of gathering up four more hearts that would change any of these variables.
And again, seriously-no 'T' in Einher or Einherjar.

>>351432
Why did I know you would be the one to ask the first 'specific' question? ....In order: No, Yes, and 'Only in the case that you are storing so much magic that you can't store further pre-healing energy.


Any other questions?
(I said to be SPECIFIC for a reason, far too many questions have highly contextual answers.)
>>
No. 41639 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351433
Well, as long as you're paying attention to the thread and answering things for a bit... hopefully you'll find these adequately specific.

I would like an answer to the question posed in >>351389:
>So, we can sacrifice 40% of our bloodline to provide a buffer between three different normal-strength powers. Can we sacrifice 20% of our bloodline to provide a buffer between only two different double-strength powers?

There was an implicit "using basically the method that Ogrimir was talking about" in there.


And a question that came up a while back and I've been wondering about for a bit- what are the effects of Armas' current extensive use of his summer bloodline healing power, if any, on his aging processes? There was speculation that it might be stopping gradual organ decay and so forth and thus help him live much longer than a normal human, but on the other hand it's basically forcing accelerated cell growth which is essentially an aging process, so it could actually be shortening his lifespan. The difference seems to me to be a fiddly detail of how his magic works.


On a similar question, does the healing of his summer bloodline boost his immune system and general health in addition to rapidly healing his wounds? My guess would be yes and we've certainly never seen him get sick or suffer infection, but absence of a negative proof doesn't really show anything one way or another. If so, what are the limitations to this, if any- could it substantially drain his magical reserves if he was doing something that would likely leave a normal human with huge health problems, say swimming in sewage or industrial waste for a couple hours with open injuries?


And on more current topics of discussion...

There has been some talk of potentially getting an 'ice troll' power. It seems to me that this is more a case of identifying a Winter-aligned magical creature with useful properties and wanting to take/emulate those properties than it is identifying a bloodline power that we know actually exists amongst humans. Can we even do that? If so, is this principle extensible to other Winter creatures and beings- that is, what are the limitations on being able to pick someone, say "I want to be able to do what they do", and then eat their heart to make our blank bloodline emulate whatever Winter powers they were using?
>>
No. 41640 ID: aa66a4

>>351430

Yo man I wasn't asking for OOC info, I was giving the reasoning why I was against the whole deal, and why it's a bad idea. We don't know enough, dawg, hence, seeking the answers inthread.
>>
No. 41642 ID: d3dfb8

>>340811
GRRRR BOB YOU MAKE ME SO ANGRY THREATENING NEGATIVE TRAITS NO ONE READS THE DISC THREAD ANYWAY I WILL RAPE MARK IF YOU DONT STOP BEING SUCH A HUGE COCK I HATE YOU AND EVERYTHING YOU DO ALSO I LOVE GFH/GOLEMQUEST SPEAKING OF WHICH WHEN ARE YOU PLANNING ON UPDATING GOLEMQUEST AGAIN IT'S BEEN SO LONG I CANT BEGIN TO IMAGINE HOW CRUSHED I WOULD BE IF GOLEMQUEST GOT CANCELLED LIKE ANTQUEST AND WHEN WILL WE SEE DREAMQUEST 2 IF YOU DONT PROVIDE ME WITH EVERYTHING I WANT I WILL RAPE AND HARVEST MARK
>>
No. 41644 ID: a76809

>>351439
The linked question: Yes, that is correct, a 20% loss to create a single buffer between two paired sources is possible with the method Ogrimir was advocating the use of.

>What are the effects of Armas' current extensive use of his summer bloodline healing power, if any, on his aging processes?:
Bear in mind my answer is completely OOC as Armas has no way to know this, and in-quest there are no texts he could find that would reference this.
The effects of Armas' extensive use of the Summer aspected Divine origin healing that occupies one of his bloodlines is that his body is physically becoming closer to an 'ageless ideal' state, fully mature yet unmarred by age or time-but as it continues to be used-could happen on the way to the 'ageless' state, or way after, highly variable-Armas would develop a massively increased risk of spiritual corruption, decay and mutation, as a result of his flesh, the seat of his soul, becoming to transiently defined, as something that was originally 'static'.

>On a similar question, does the healing of his summer bloodline boost his immune system and general health in addition to rapidly healing his wounds?
This is correct, in the sense that Armas' immune system effectively 'responds' to threats with more alacrity than the norm, at a rate roughly accelerate to ten times the norm, correlating with his healing rate. This does not give disease immunity-and could even mean a sufficiently virulant, stubborn disease could keep perpetually depleting his stored energy fueling this boosted immune response-and still fall. So it's not 'burn power and be disease immune till out of power' its 'burn power to get ten times, if ten times doesn't cut it, tough'.

>There has been some talk of potentially getting an 'ice troll' power. It seems to me that this is more a case of identifying a Winter-aligned magical creature with useful properties and wanting to take/emulate those properties than it is identifying a bloodline power that we know actually exists amongst humans. Can we even do that?
Yes... and no. I give this completely vague answer for the following reason: It is possible to render from a creature wholly of the Nevernever a bloodline trait, if the base creature has sufficient innate magic-say a Dragon, an Akkorokamui, any other giant-sized Divine creatures, really. The problem is-and this is the part I swear half of quest is blind to even if you rub their noses in it-is that it is highly IMPROBABLE. You'd be likely looking at wasted time and effort for nothing. The odds of success are low-but if successful, would, admittedly, yield results immediately, and make it far easier to do the same again.

>>351442
Yes hello Wuten.
>>
No. 41646 ID: f8aa66

>>351444
So in the case of Armas contracting, say, cancer, his healing could come back and bite him in the ass?

Bloodline question: if we went 'pure' bloodline (5 of the same thing, say, Einher), is that merely additive or would the whole be more than the sum of its parts?

Also, just some thoughts about the potential Doony fight so I don't forget later:
Plan 1: Use vamp contact to find Doony and send formal challenge (couched in insulting terms, probably). Then pile on with everything we have once noncoms are out of the way. Benefit: gets Doony out of the city to a place of our choosing, if he's stupid and/or confident enough to do so. Also lets us say 'we challenged the fish to a duel, then killed him' if anyone asks.
Plan 2: Depends on how much of a nuisance Lambombard has made of himself. Get in contact with Doony, offer to bury the hatchet with him (possibly, get Doony to swear to not harm Armas if Armas provides him with a place and time to get the drop on Lammy, sworn on Asitane neutral ground) in exchange for finding a good time for Doony to assassinate Lammy. Doony ought to believe it, because... well, Armas is kind of scum (particularly since he probably believes Armas is under Mammon). Lammy works beautifully as bait, being pretty close to immortal. When Doony strikes, we strike (keep distance until then, due to Doony hearing: sniper rifles?).
Addendum: Find way to get introduction to Wizard Dorjpalam (Mafia? Triad?) and offer to assassinate his enemy (Akkorokamui's lieutenant) for a fee, cite previous successes as proof we can do it.
>>
No. 41647 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351444
>Bear in mind my answer is completely OOC as Armas has no way to know this, and in-quest there are no texts he could find that would reference this.
Of course. If we talked to Whaitiri, could she tell us about this and possibly offer a way to avoid or recover from the associated spiritual problems? I can't think of anyone more likely to know about her bloodline power's problems than she herself.


As long as we're talking about bloodline powers- am I correct in thinking that Shadowbro doesn't have bloodline power potential at all, and that the Winter power potential that Ogrimir gifted him with is rooted in some other aspect of his being? My understanding was that bloodline powers were inherently rooted in the literal blood, which he obviously doesn't have. If that is correct, what is his allotted 5xMortal power based in? We are spending a great deal of time and thought on our physical body's bloodline, but does our Soul Shadow also need to somehow template his gift of power or is his allocation of it either less rigidly defined or already fixed by his efforts thus far?

Sorry, that last bit was a bit rambling but it's a question with many implications.
>>
No. 41648 ID: 3f12fc

ok, about the x5 Einbher thing, from what i heard before using it x5 would give us some slight spirit Einher power right? (so, slighlty more than sum of its part).

However, if you add 1Einher to 1Sam Shaman, you could do the same by 'cheating'? In fact, you could get most of them?
>>
No. 41649 ID: 1854db

What counts as 'discussion' anyway? We're supposed to reply to other posters in order to downvote them and use SUST. Are we not allowed to list reasons why, anymore? Or if we are, are we then not allowed to respond to people downvoting our suggestions?
>>
No. 41650 ID: 3f12fc

Basically, we are allowed on post for suggestion, and maybe one post for downvote/upvote others.

If you want to change your suggestion or who you downvote/upvote, delete the post and upload the edit (for that, you need a password).

You are not supposed to respond to people downvoting you by making *more* posts.

If you want to discuss the 'whys', do it here.

Anyway, here is what i think of the bloodlines we know:

5einher: Einher with better efficiency from the start, as well as maybe some spirit Einher stuff.

+Sami Shaman/Einher/Border:

Einher and Sami Shaman is a powerful combo that lets you be a Spirit Einher while alive.

Sami shaman lets you heal others with soul/spirit (heal shadowbro, maybe refresh yourself, etc), as well as talk to your ancestors and go talk to other spirits. This could be very useful if you need to meet more powerful and less powerful people while in Istanbul. This is all i know about it so far. Oh, and it lets you leave your body while being anchored by your ancestor spirit.

Border is the manipulatiosn of borders, with physical ones being easiest. Teleportation from one door to the next is the kind of thing that should be 'easier' with it, than, say, becoming a woman, or suddenly having a 5xSpring bloodline. Of course, our ability grows with our skill, soul, magical reservoir.

This combo would greatly increase our magical sensing incidentally (as a spirit einher seems to have spirit-type senses), and thus could improve our stealth.

+Einher/Sami Shaman/Stoic Taoism: This has the same Einher/Sami Shaman combo, but it adds Stoic Taoism, which is about 'Nullification/Negation'. While we have no clue what it means, if it can do stuff like 'negate our magical presence, negate sounds coming from our owned body, negate smells' this could, also, greatly improve our stealth.
>>
No. 41651 ID: eea635

Say Bob, Our Summer bloodline wouldn't happen to also be making Armas' body more plastic, more liable to change with every injury?
Many cannabilistic cultures often associated the act with a recycling of spiritual ability, or claiming of strength for oneself, and we sure have been eating a lot of shape-shifter meat lately.
And as we plan on living forever, wouldn't we eventually become something seperate from humans via the slow infiltration of magical attributes through food?
>>
No. 41652 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351450
Given Bob's confirmation that we can do a 2/2 split instead of a 1/1/1 split and the known synergy between Einher and Sami bloodlines, I am inclined to try for a double-strength in both of those instead of going for anything more exotic.

It's a path with less flexibility than the three-way split, but double power is very nice and we could do it now instead of needing to wait until we can go to Japan or wherever. All we'd need to do is jet around Scandinavia for a day or two hunting up two shamans and one more Einher, then use the Einher question for a how-to from Ogrimir.

I like the sound of both the borders bloodline and the stoic bloodline, and honestly would be perfectly happy if we dropped the whole Einher concept and went for those... but that would mean that we'd have to delay getting any bloodline power at all until we can hunt down and kill the people who have those powers already. Getting power faster, even if it's not power quite as suited to our current styles in its application, is probably a higher priority.
>>
No. 41653 ID: 3f12fc

... I thought that if we did the three way bloodline, we could begin with 1, then 2 bloodlines.

I don't know where i got that idea, but i was sure we didn't need to have the three bloodlines to begin it.
>>
No. 41656 ID: 18944d

>>351453
Pretty sure that after we do the ritual for compound bloodline, we will gain 3 separate winter slots, meaning that we can fill them at our leisure.


>>351444
Bob, will the compound bloodline ritual that Og had in mind work as a buffer for summer bloodline too? We might get a chance to expand our summer line the same way as we did the winter, so it would be pretty ballin' to have several summer abilities too.
Or do we need to rephrase the question is such a way that the ritual will cover all slots?

Also, can Shadowbro also get several bloodline powers?
>>
No. 41659 ID: c6ce12

>>>/quest/340900
>It shouldn't take more than a day, dammit!
Actually flying from Istanbul to New Zealand and back will take about two days in travel time alone. I'm not actually opposed to making the detour, but you're probably going to need to come up with some compelling dialogue Armas can give to Einrik to justify that big of a detour. It would be more effective than just telling Armas to do it and would probably garner the idea more support.

>Eh. Why?
Someone asked so I added it to the travel plans since it's a diversion that takes at most a couple hours. It's not really necessary, but Armas is a character and doing unnecessary things once and a while keeps him a bit more human.
>>
No. 41664 ID: ab185a

>>351459
>Actually flying from Istanbul to New Zealand and back will take about two days in travel time alone. I'm not actually opposed to making the detour, but you're probably going to need to come up with some compelling dialogue Armas can give to Einrik to justify that big of a detour. It would be more effective than just telling Armas to do it and would probably garner the idea more support.
Actually, I didn't even think that anyone would be along with the idea so I didn't bother with anything to justify. I can see how it might not work not. Though if we do go to NZ, then we will probably have to forgo any other stops ..... which I don't really mind if that means we will have reconnected with Waitiri which (probably) will give us a chance to level-up the regen power.

>Someone asked so I added it to the travel plans since it's a diversion that takes at most a couple hours. It's not really necessary, but Armas is a character and doing unnecessary things once and a while keeps him a bit more human.
Well... uhh... I still don't see how he would explain the trip to Einrik. Sure Simo was amazing sniper and we would benefit learning from him but we hardly have any connection to him or any plans to actually make that stop useful. "Paying respect" would make sense if he was a relative. ... Still, maybe Bob would make it interesting. I do stand by the suggestion to ask Einrik for somekind of ritual which would let us converse with Semi.

Also,
The idea to challenge a Sami Shaman doesn't seem good either. We have no idea of their powers (except some basics), so we do not know how they will fight. Their powers mostly concern soul and spirits but we do not have a way to see the spirits and expect for mere (and perhaps a Buntline), we don't have weapons to kill them. ... Doom Rounds for mateba could kill them but we only have limited amount of them.
>>
No. 41665 ID: 3f12fc

>>351464
Actually, Sami Shaman icludes talking to spirit... which means we could reconnect to whatiri from Istanbul, amongst other things, if we had it.

As for 'ways to ask Einrik', i already proposed one, i am sure you can find a similar one.
>>
No. 41666 ID: a76809

>>351446
>So in the case of Armas contracting, say, cancer, his healing could come back and bite him in the ass?
Completely accurate.
>Bloodline question: if we went 'pure' bloodline (5 of the same thing, say, Einher), is that merely additive or would the whole be more than the sum of its parts?
That is correct, not in the sense of a non-linear progression of raw magical might, but in an exponential increase in what is achievable WITH said bloodline as a result of having so much power. Keep in mind the Valkonens have a single compounded winter bloodline-and can do some crazy things with it. Such would not be possible without having a compounded bloodline.
>>351447
>If we talked to Whaitiri, could she tell us about this and possibly offer a way to avoid or recover from the associated spiritual problems?
Yes, she could.
>am I correct in thinking that Shadowbro doesn't have bloodline power potential at all, and that the Winter power potential that Ogrimir gifted him with is rooted in some other aspect of his being?
...Eh. He has bloodline potential equivalent to your own-he was boosted the same as you-but as you surmise, Bloodlines are based predominately-and usurprisingly-in blood, a corporeal medium. Tell you what, have Armas meet and interact in a non 'I'm killing you the next time I see you' way a Shadowmagic master (of those you know, Amen and Cornelius are the only ones you know-and if you choose to use Amen for this it will be on your own heads), and then, as he will then have a semi-reasonable source, I will more thoroughly answer the question. As is, Armas has no one he could speak to about this, and as such the esoterics of how the power manifests in Shadowbro aren't really needed.
>>351448
>ok, about the x5 Einbher thing, from what i heard before using it x5 would give us some slight spirit Einher power right? (so, slighlty more than sum of its part).
Wrong. I compared the power of five living Einherjar to a single Spirit Einher-I did not say it would BECOME the spirit Einher power format, even in a mutated form. This is an important distinction.
>However, if you add 1Einher to 1Sam Shaman, you could do the same by 'cheating'? In fact, you could get most of them?
You could 'cheat' in that you could force yourself to become a Spirit Einher without dying. The only problem would be when you attempt to undo such a change. Draw what conclusions you wish from this comment.
>>351449
>What counts as 'discussion' anyway? We're supposed to reply to other posters in order to downvote them and use SUST. Are we not allowed to list reasons why, anymore? Or if we are, are we then not allowed to respond to people downvoting our suggestions?
Use of SUST will never incur negative traits SO LONG AS THE USE OF SUST IS ACCOMPANIED BY AN ACTUAL SUGGESTION. If you have already posted, and then post again JUST for a SUST and otherwise contribute nothing to the thread, that will be treated like a discussion post-the same will hold true if you use SUST and, instead of making a suggestion for the player character, try to convince the person you are applying SUST that their idea is not well thought-out. Real easy rule of thumb-if you are giving a suggestion to the player character, you can use SUST in your post with no fear of repercussions.
>>351450
>Basically, we are allowed one post for suggestion, and maybe one post for downvote/upvote others.
I would greatly appreciate it if each poster only made one post per update, but I will not require you to do that-so long as each post contains actual, non-copied suggestions for the player character, and isn't just you arguing with another poster, it's good.
>If you want to change your suggestion or who you downvote/upvote, delete the post and upload the edit (for that, you need a password).
Example of how this can be used: You are one of the first people to see an update. You make a post. You check an hour later and see some other posts you really want to comment on/upvote/downvote, you can either: copy your old post, delete it and upload it with your desired additions, such as upvotes and such, or you can make a new post that contains new suggestions for the player character, and do your up/downvoting in that post.
>You are not supposed to respond to people downvoting you by making *more* posts.
It is almost impossible to respond to a downvote without making a post that would attract negative traits.
>>351451
>Say Bob, Our Summer bloodline wouldn't happen to also be making Armas' body more plastic, more liable to change with every injury?
Depends on how you are using the word plastic. If you mean it will make his body more fluidly/loosely defined to a set form over time and heavy saturation of magical flesh, yes this is so.
>And as we plan on living forever, wouldn't we eventually become something separate from humans via the slow infiltration of magical attributes through food?
The living shadow and multi-faceted soul with separately defined psyches wasn't inhuman enough?
>>351456
>Bob, will the compound bloodline ritual that Og had in mind work as a buffer for summer bloodline too?
ABSOLUTELY NOT. This ONLY works within a set seasonally-attuned set of bloodlines-you can make a mix of Autumn if you have an empty Autumn slot, a mix of Spring if an empty Spring, etc. At no point, ever, can you make a composite bloodline that is itself composed of seperate court's bloodlines. It has been attempted countless times at countless points in history-and has never once been successful. This is not a challenge for the player character to be the first to achieve it-this is anecdotal evidence it can't be done. I tell you now plainly-if you have Armas attempt to do it, no matter what method you choose, it will fail, and in a best case scenario burn all the magic out of his body and re-render him mortal-while denying him the chance to ever regain magic. Dying would not even be a 'worst case' outcome if this were attempted. You have been warned.
I didn't answer your other two questions as they seemed dependent on the assumption I'd answer differently to your first question.



I... think that was all the current questions.

Did I miss any?
Or are there new ones?
>>
No. 41669 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351466
I had also asked, nestled in with the bit about Shadowbro's Winter power:

>We are spending a great deal of time and thought on our physical body's bloodline, but does our Soul Shadow also need to somehow template his gift of power or is his allocation of it either less rigidly defined or already fixed by his efforts thus far?

Basically, is Shadowbro's Winter power still blank? If it's not blank, what's it filled with, and if it is, what will we need to do to fill it?


>Or are there new ones?
There are always new questions.

What exactly makes someone qualify as "human"? You use the term 'inhuman' referencing Armas' multifaceted soul and split mind, but Shadowbro is based on chakras- which are a feature of humanity- and learned skill rather than anything else, is he not? So would that not merely make Armas a human with a unique skillset rather than actually any less human? The only thing I can think of that he's got at the moment which I don't think is rooted in human ability is a partial divine essence graft. Unless seasonal bloodline powers aren't actually a human trait, anyway, in which case Armas was born not entirely human.

Or does it even matter? Is 'inhuman' mostly a measure of whether people scream in horror when they know what you are, rather than some kind of inherent quality?
>>
No. 41674 ID: a76809

>>351469
His Winter Bloodline is where he's building the Ice manipulation shenaniganery he's been building from his Valkonen observations and instruction.

I suppose you could overright that but he'd be pissed as fuck without a damn good reason, given how much relative time he's invested in it so far.
>>
No. 41680 ID: a76809

>>351469
To the more complex of your questions:
>What exactly makes someone qualify as "human"?
Bear in mind all I say from here after is addressing humanity, not mortality, which was not the question, to prevent people drawing erroneous assumptions... hah.
So, humanity is primarily rooted in a few things-being a Mortal (definitely still that), Being completely free of external manipulation (Contract qualifies, though not as much as being a Disciple or Knight or what have you to a higher power) which Armas does NOT meet so well as he used to, and to fit the schema of a nonmagical human.
>Shadowbro is based on chakras- which are a feature of humanity- and learned skill rather than anything else, is he not?
Based on in what sense? Magically, fundamentally, by 'birth'-there are different answers depending on what exactly you are asking.
>So would that not merely make Armas a human with a unique skillset rather than actually any less human?
To continue from my first answer in this post, possessing magic of any sort makes you less human by degrees, by virtue of slowly making the one saturated with magic multi-dimensional, as more and more energy from the Nevernever / The Other Side builds up in their body. Humans are not known for being multidimensional beings, in the sense existing in corporeal form and in timeless, placeless ethereal energies on the Other Side. Armas, through his method of healing, ramshackle deals, and method of power use like his Hunger, is rapidly approaching similar 'inhuman-ness' to someone born to an active Magical bloodline-which only reliably happens in Compounded Bloodlines. This is neither a good nor bad thing-it merely means change that's ultimately already been set in pace.
> Is 'inhuman' mostly a measure of whether people scream in horror when they know what you are, rather than some kind of inherent quality?
Being Inhuman is ultimately how regular, normal people will react to you-the more inhuman you get, the more likely they, on seeing you in action, will not think you 'human' but 'monster'. It's not unconditional-and obviously becoming inhuman can open up communication with new entities you couldn't before-but usually there is a rough direct correlation between magical saturation/inhumanness, and negative reactions from the non-magical-i.e. most people on the planet.
>>
No. 41683 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351480
All right, comments on this.

>being a Mortal
We are explicitly planning to leave mortality behind through whatever means we can figure out and implement.

>Being completely free of external manipulation
This we would like to retain, but it seems to be one of the easiest things to lose while pursuing rapid growth of power- I don't think we've agreed to any Contracts without an exit clause or expiration date yet, but I'd have to check to confirm. And obviously for now we're rather tied up in several ways.

>to fit the schema of a nonmagical human.
This uses "schema" in the Kantian sense? That is... something that we're obviously steadily losing as we gain in magical ability of any kind, as you noted. It seems almost recursive; basically "humans are humans because they have all qualities of humans". This schema is rooted in... popular belief? That would have very interesting implications for the definition of humanity over time.

Speaking of interesting implications, if I'm reading this right baseline humans are likely to react negatively to someone upon seeing their powers in proportion to their remaining level of free will, even when the baselines have no method of discerning it. That is, watching two different people punch through a wall will typically draw different reactions if one has Disciple powers and another is using a bloodline powers. Is that correct?

And on this negative reaction bit, does it go away completely or gradually as magic is mixed into people? To give a faintly ridiculous but potentially relevant example, if we take a normal person and feed them a delicious Armas Laine breakfast made of magical meats and spices, do they suddenly become far less disposed to freak out at someone they see cross a road in a twentieth of a second? My assumption would be "no, that's silly", but I would like to make sure.


Anyway, I guess by this information about what exactly humanity is, it is Armas' goal to leave two of the three major criteria that make people human behind and the third might turn out to be an incidental casualty. He'll be very inhuman indeed, if he can make it that far.



>Based on in what sense? Magically, fundamentally, by 'birth'-there are different answers depending on what exactly you are asking.
I was specifically thinking of his method of creation there; he certainly doesn't still depend upon chakras and our knowledge of goblin stealth techniques to sustain him. I think. In any case, I think this was implicitly answered by your full explanation- Shadowbro's existence pulls Armas significantly further from the human schema and therefore makes him more inhuman, regardless of the fact that he's not made of any inherently nonhuman components. Actually, using your Chakras for any kind of significant action at all would pull someone further from the human schema.
>>
No. 41685 ID: df8836

Could someone please verify this for me?

1. We cannot use Shadowbro.
2. Sake is bound as well so he cannot give us advice.
3. We just barely and with luck (=good rolls) won against the Einher.
4. The Valkonens might or might not have something against us declining a Duell with Einherjar and then killing them with outside help.

And people still want to go Einherjar and/or Shaman hunting? Seems kind of reckless to me.
>>
No. 41686 ID: 71baf1

>>351485
I think I can sorta answer number four. Most Einherjar aren't as honorable as Gunner, and he's said they'd just attack us without a second thought.

Also, I'm not sure I understand why Einherjar hunting is anymore reckless than before. Hell, this time we may be able to actually set some traps or even snipe at them. And it'll get us the second question almost immediately.
>>
No. 41689 ID: 3f12fc

There is also the fact it's quite clar that fighting Dangerous fights give much, much more than not-dangerous ones.
>>
No. 41691 ID: df8836

>>351486
Ok if we don't do duells I don't mind. Its just that one on one seems suicidal because the next Einher might be even more powerful than Gunner. Still somewhat risky without Shadowbro's speed. Should try to repair the Matebas first though, Mammon's ammo might be needed.

Something else: If we fly by and notice an Einher, we have to kill it, right? What do we do, if there is no place to land nearby?
>>
No. 41693 ID: ba6280

As Falcon brought up in the thread,

">Einrick
>Blind with magic purple pulsating eye in forehead
>Man knows things he very damn well shouldn't
>The -rick suffix is hard to get away from.
You almost had me Bob. You almost had me."

I've been looking for the inevitable golem quest reference/crossover point for ages and I'm pissed he found one first, but cudos.

No idea if that (unproven) knowledge will be of consequence, and I'm fairly confident Armas doesn't browse /quest/ and as such we can't use it in character. None the less, interesting.
>>
No. 41694 ID: ab185a

>>341099
The trip to NZ is not a bad idea. The only downside to it is that by going there we will not go anywhere else, a price I am willing to pay if that means we might get lvl up for our regen.
Just because we went there does not mean that we should stay a whole month there or that we can't go back there in a month or two.
Though I do not think we will go there anyway, so I hope that Armas will speak with Einrik and get his help to contact Waitiri .... but even if he doesn't do that we should at least visit the Chakra Guru that Einrik talked about in Turkey.

>>351493
Some people have had theories that the whole GfH is in fact Morde's Soul Eden which he modified to let the souls in his shell grow.
I bet that Ogrimmir is actually Morder. That is why he suddenly started to act all nice as Mordre is known to be very helpful to his allies and friends while a bit blunt and harsh to others, so just as soon as we made the Contract his disposition towards Armas changed.
>>
No. 41698 ID: a8d80c

>Ogrim is Mordre
>Soul eden
>FFFFFFFFFFFFFF

And here I thought it was just another dimension some time in the future.

DAMMIT THIS FLIPS EVERYTHING ON IT'S HEAD.
...or it doesn't have to affect anything at all.
Quest will go on regardless.

A nice test of this would be trying to break the quest by having Armas become a belief mage. "You can't do that""YES I CAN""well wadaya know, I gess he can"

...Inb4 Obama is a belief mage.

>>
No. 41702 ID: a8d80c

But wait, if Ogrim is Mordre, creator of the damn universe, why would he give a rats ass about some backa'bush old cannibal lady?

I suppose you could flounder afound and say that all the 'gods' are in face planet eaters that are messing around in there and mord would love to one up any of them, but it seems weak.

Very weak.


I like to think of this as more of an entertaining easter egg with no ~~ULTERIOR MOTIVES~~.
>>
No. 41706 ID: d6c8c7

>Yes, we should want until next December for this.

Fuck no.

You realise that if Waitiri had never been booted from us we could have had at least a couple of chances to level up our regen powers?
We have do reconnect with her as soon as possible.
>>
No. 41713 ID: a76809

>>351483
>This uses "schema" in the Kantian sense?
Largely, yes.
>t seems almost recursive; basically "humans are humans because they have all qualities of humans". This schema is rooted in... popular belief?
You hit the nail on the head with that-now I'd recommend, personally, taking that idea, and scripting up how Armas could come to the conclusion, some theories he could form as a result of this conclusion, and then post it when next he has in-quest reason to really ponder humanity. Granted, this would carry a risk of incurring a paranoia levelup-but that's only if you're wrong. If right, instant Rationalization levelup. But hey, that's me. Feel free to keep asking for OOC info on this subject, I'm happy to answer-just know that it would remove your ability to get a beneficial trait gain from it. ...Think like a PS from Golemquest as a general outline of how to proceed here.
>That is, watching two different people punch through a wall will typically draw different reactions if one has Disciple powers and another is using a bloodline powers. Is that correct?
Yes and no. Spiritually a human's soul will grasp the differing nature of said wall-puncher, but it would be a very faint, instinctual thing-99 times out of 100, the active, conscious thought of 'jesus fuck that guy punched a wall down' will prevent them from registering the difference. This difference would only really come into play with normal humans you regularly interact with, and get a fair number of chances to perceive that sense-and will eventually sense you to be more fundamentally 'wrong', their way of cogitating the instinctual fear of something that could crush them.
>And on this negative reaction bit, does it go away completely or gradually as magic is mixed into people?
Gradually-this is not an either/or, on/off deal.
>If we take a normal person and feed them a delicious Armas Laine breakfast made of magical meats and spices, do they suddenly become far less disposed to freak out at someone they see cross a road in a twentieth of a second?
First-I'm not sure they'd be able to grasp that it was a person, given human reaction time-but as to your question-it would, but only over multiple meals-so saturation would in some way need to occur for meaningful change. No 'eat food, now fine with all supernaturals' shall be occurring.
>>351485
1: Correct for now.
2: Incorrect-Sake is a tri-part soul-you could speak with a fragment of him. This would mean weakening his presence within the Left Eye.
3: Correct-though a face-to-face fight is hardly your forté.
4: If you do it on their grounds so that they are implicitly involved, you'd better believe they'll mind.

>>351493
>I've been looking for the inevitable golem quest reference/crossover point for ages and I'm pissed he found one first, but cudos.
It's kudos, not cudos, and it's not the first one-only the first one noticed. So you are giving kudos for a slightly incorrect reason. And Einrik's only a GQ ref insofar as he has the noted themes-he is not in any way a part of the -Rick collective, nor has he been at any point, or will he be in the future. Similarly, he is not working for, aware of, or even tangentially related in any way other than the 'coincidental' similarity. ...Which I must admit was accidental.
>>351494
>Some people have had theories that the whole GfH is in fact Morde's Soul Eden which he modified to let the souls in his shell grow.
Yes, and some people kill themselves because someone unfriended them on facebook, or believe the moon landing never happened, or beat their neighbor's dog to death with a shovel because they saw god in a cloud-it does not make their assumptions correct.
>>351202
>But wait, if Ogrim is Mordre, creator of the damn universe, why would he give a rats ass about some backa'bush old cannibal lady?
He's not. He doesn't. Take your pills Falcon.





More questions?
>>
No. 41716 ID: 20a63e

>>351513
>Which I must admit was accidental
Never thought he would end up as a 'collective' member, but to hear that was accidental? well the only thing I can say is
The rick is hard to escape from

>Take your pills
I DON'T WANNA!!
>>
No. 41734 ID: 84a7b7

>Yes, and some people kill themselves because someone unfriended them on facebook, or believe the moon landing never happened, or beat their neighbor's dog to death with a shovel because they saw god in a cloud-it does not make their assumptions correct.

Ha! If not for your reply to Falcon, one could claim that you deftly side-stepped the question without actually answering it.


Anyway, it looks like I didn't clarify one of my questions from before.
by
>Also, can Shadowbro also get several bloodline powers?
I meant if Shadowbro can have a winter composite bloodline like Armas could have? Ogrimmir expanded his winter-slot to 5x too.
It would be interesting to see what we could cook up, combos like valkonen/Sami/einherjar
Since sami shamanism deals with spiritual and generally non-corporal shit, it seems to me that Shadowbro could benefit from that. Also, since attacks directly to the soul can damage him, he could use Sami to protect himself.
And if Einherjar powers work, he could cheat his way to becoming a spiritual Einherjar so we could have a shadow that can wreck absolute shit.

Not sure how one would go acquiring the powers for Shadowbro, but I think we can ask that to Og if we really want to, or buy info from SM or ask Einrik or Amen.

So would those powers work for Ahdowbro and how different would they be from "normal" use?

I can also see Shadowbro benefiting from birder manipulation powers.
>>
No. 41743 ID: a76809

>>351534
>I meant if Shadowbro can have a winter composite bloodline like Armas could have?
So building a style out of Valkonen teachings-which are themselves from a compounded Winter bloodline-his own shadow existence, and weaving into that a way to tap his chakras isn't a composite bloodline? It's the frailties of flesh that demand you need to do special shit to get a composite bloodline-with no physical form to weigh him down, Shadowbro was never restricted in this sense to begin with.
>It would be interesting to see what we could cook up, combos like valkonen/Sami/einherjar
Like ValkPrime/ValkEin/Dark?
>So would those powers work for Ahdowbro and how different would they be from "normal" use?
All of your examples would be different because the bloodlines Shadowbro uses are based in the Dark-so he's drawing his bloodlines from WITHIN the nevernever, while most others draw it from their body, which has been imbued with nevernever magic. Compared to humans, his work is more direct-he's basically mainlining the Other Side, and as he has no body to burst into a big gooey pile of roasted flesh, he instead shunts aside unused power.
>>
No. 41751 ID: 3fd4fb

>More questions?
Naturally.

Would it be possible to get a more detailed story of Camella vs. Blackbeard? Armas was apparently told it in-character during one of his phone calls, but we as players have never gotten to hear it, so far as I know. It sounds rather excellent.

While we're talking about other players, how many other players are there these days? How easily are you able to keep everyone's game moving at roughly the same pace, so that one person doesn't wildly timeskip ahead while they spend three weeks unconscious from having their kidney ripped out or what have you? Anything interesting going on in storylines that Armas will never hear about but might be fun to share?


On more in-character concerns... How does the level of power granted to Armas and Shadowbro for the Contract with Ogrimir compare to that which other people typically sell their service/lives for? I know that some people must get horribly scammed and give away a life of service for a song, and that it's not like we've got a lot of points of reference in-character, but I'd still like to know. What Ogrimir gave us seems like a lot- the resistance to cold alone is a fairly major magical ability, though limited in its application- but is it? Did we get the going rate for such things, less (presumably because we didn't really know the value of what we were selling), or more (presumably because Ogrimir is just so powerful that he can afford to spend the power)?
>>
No. 41757 ID: a76809

>>351551
>Would it be possible to get a more detailed story of Camella vs. Blackbeard?
Yes, it is entirely possible.
>While we're talking about other players, how many other players are there these days?
Currently? four others-and I don't plan on having more than five PCs. Camella, Big Crazy, Labombard and Hillevi. Big Crazy briefly played Blackbeard while his character was laid up, and Hillevi's player sometimes played Helmi too. Savoy had a player group, but I haven't been able to get in contact with them for a bit, so I may have to return him to an NPC.
>How easily are you able to keep everyone's game moving at roughly the same pace, so that one person doesn't wildly timeskip ahead while they spend three weeks unconscious from having their kidney ripped out or what have you?
Not... very easily at all. Thankfully, with Savoy in limbo, only Armas and Labombard have group players, and I run the other players parts in different IRC channels-frequently, they can get a bit chronologically ahead of Armas-but only when they're doing standalone missions.
>Anything interesting going on in storylines that Armas will never hear about but might be fun to share?
Interesting?
-In their battle, Camella traded her leg to remove all but three of Blackbeard's twenty charms-and replacing those charms will take him weeks and massive amounts of money.
-Hafaz had to kill the Ethiopian child mercenary because she was attempting to kill and rob Ahmed just because she didn't see any of the rest of the team arond. Team killing-not cool, even in Hafaz' book. Was a bit of an emotional scene, because Hafaz, in his past dealings with said child mercenary, had come to think of her as something like a daughter-only to see what little sparks of humanity had been in her before long dead when she was hired to help with the Blackbeard job.
-Labombard... okay. TItan Corporation, a real life PMC, was called in by the US because they were a bit pissed that their spec ops teams kept vanishing when sent to Istanbul to investigate Triad smuggling and magical contraband trafficking (They didn't vanish-they ran into Labombard). They sent one of the Titan Reapers in. It killed every Triad and a local Vampire Dynasty representative and wounded Labombard far more than his regeneration could accommodate-and long story short, Labombard had to massively overdose to keep up, had his skin burnt off multiple times and was decapitated more than once (yeah Loup Garou's have some sweet Regen), and was only able to beat the Reaper when, after his second to last ditch effort to sink the ship with both of them on it and escape when he recovered also failed, Labombard used his secondary Bloodline and got lucky, successfully possessing the Reaper. He then used subterfuge to get inside the (semi)nearby submersible Titan carrier, and slowly killed his way through the command structure there, body-hopping like a madman, and eventually abandoned the craft to paranoia fueled self destruction after a week. He stayed a week, despite it being monstrously hard to reamin uncaught in all that time, because of the massive recoil his body was subjected to by the overdose and heavy healing-so he left the Reaper's mind in his flesh to absorb that psychic assault, only to return to his body AFTER this recoil had passed.
-I can't tell you what Savoy's up to because he is at direct odds with... well all the player characters at this point.
>How does the level of power granted to Armas and Shadowbro for the Contract with Ogrimir compare to that which other people typically sell their service/lives for?
Quick and dirty assessment: It's a great deal compared to other transitory deals that last under a score of years-it's absolute shit compared to non-scam permanent Contracts. Those who bind themselves to lifelong servitude and don't get gypped are pretty monstrous. (This is also why the fact Savoy's now got a Wizardly Contract and is now pursuing a Demonic contract should worry you, as he plans to have two such life-long contracts.)
>Did we get the going rate for such things, less (presumably because we didn't really know the value of what we were selling), or more (presumably because Ogrimir is just so powerful that he can afford to spend the power)?
That funny you think there'd be a 'going rate' for anything. It's all based on the individual higher power, the potential contractor, and the needs of each party. So I literally cannot answer this question.


More questions?
>>
No. 41769 ID: 9fd080

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO UPDATE GOLEM QUEST, DAMMIT?!
>>
No. 41777 ID: b1f0e2

so, everyone seems to assume that bob is going to screw us and DM fiat away the box if we don't open it right now...

From voice chat (organized on IRC), paraphrased, from memory:
Me: So, bob, people are basically saying that you will troll us by DM fiat away the box if we don't open it now. But it was sitting there undisturbed for 70 years.
Bob: I probably would if I could justify it, but there is no way I can justify someone finding it if you really bury it back. It was sitting there close to 80 years now, its in the middle of nowhere, and einrick's wards are really really good. Anything powerful enough to notice it is not going to give a shit. Maybe if a dragon just happened to fly over it, well it would most likely not be able to see it. Or if you tell someone who would have an interest in getting it about it.

So there you have it, bob is NOT going to DM fiat it away just because we don't open it now, he would gladly do it if he could justify it but really there isn't justification unless we give him some. For example, we could justify it getting lost by shipping it, telling people about it, not burying it back. etc... But if we leave things all proper-like there is no way for him to justify just taking it away before we come back.

So stop being so paranoid.
>>
No. 41778 ID: 71baf1

>>351577
I'm not sure that's what most people are assuming. I know I'm assuming that if we leave it here, we won't be back for it anytime soon, because we're doing stuff on a quest thread. Getting people to go back and do that thing you set aside when shit keeps going down is hard as fuck. Hell, even when we had nothing going on people were all "Keep training" rather than "Buy information on Smets" or "Check up on Doony". The chances of us checking this thing out before Silja awakens, which I'm sure this will have some sort of impact on, whether good or bad, is next to none in my mind.

So far less paranoia, more trying to make sure something gets done before it becomes less relevant.
>>
No. 41779 ID: b1f0e2

>>351578
ah, now that is another issue altogether. I think there is one or two people who thinks like you. But the way I see it most are like "OMG if we leave it here someone will come and take it away because bob would totally do it just to screw with us!"

I might be wrong, and if I am wrong then I am wrong...

Now, to actually address your concern of not coming back to take it... well it would be inconvenient, and I would like having amen help contain it if we fail to open it...
So how about seeing if we can encase it in a 8x8 foot block of frozen dirt and ship it like that?
Or have SM transport it in return to the story of what happens when we open it?
>>
No. 41782 ID: 727854

>>351579

I didn't notice anyone thinking bob would screw us up. My post was definitely about dealing with the box before Silja wakens: in fact, that's what my 'speech' at Einrik is focused on.

The truth of it is that Silja will probably wake in a few weeks at most, so putting back what we do with the box is a bad idea. If we don't open it up right now, it should be because we have a plan about learning what is in it very, very soon.

I am thinking sami Shaman could help.
>>
No. 41784 ID: 856690

This
>>351582

And

This
>>351578

Are pretty much my concern, you see currently as it stands Silja is more likely to be reborn as a nighmarish monster of hate and madness, we already are having to deal with one of those; Amen.

A second would be very bad.


Also on another note, I don't think we have seen the last of the THING, that was on the boat.

We have too many plans and things going on not to try and wrap this Silja businness up.
>>
No. 41786 ID: 3fd4fb

My suggestion for "do this even though it's reckless and stupid" was made because of the relative lack of ways to move forward on the Silja project.

There are a few things that we could do which would move us in a generally towards-awakening direction:
-Investigate this box
-Wander around looking for the tree where she died
-Try and spiritually contact her somehow
-Feed her more magical stuff

To really move forward on this matter, we should be doing as many of these as possible- but we're leaving Finland on short notice, meaning that it's unlikely we'll be spending much time seeking her site of death. If we abandon the grave site too, that leaves us with only feeding her and attempting spiritual contact as the remaining tricks in our bag. Spiritual contact is mostly a gamble; even if we can get sami shaman powers, it might not work or accomplish anything useful.

Which leaves us with... feeding her our magical enemies as the only thing we're doing to wake her up. And that will probably wake her up on its own, but considering what we know about how it works- basically forcibly tacking bits of other souls onto herself to grow stronger- I suspect that a Silja awakened purely on that wouldn't be the best kind of Silja for our purposes.

So unless we're planning to come back here on short notice- and I don't think we'll be leaving Istanbul until at least March or so once we get back there- then we need to move on this box now.
>>
No. 41793 ID: a20e14

You know Bob, I'm curious, what would we have gotten if we had open the box later in the futur? And how much did we just screwed ourselves?
>>
No. 41798 ID: a76809

>>351593
You would have gotten a bag containing the ground bones of Silja's corpse, acting as insulator and, in this case, amplifier for the demon's hand. So you missed Silja's actual body.
>>
No. 41799 ID: b1f0e2

>>351598
her ground bones are so awesome our spirit cannot handle them yet?
>>
No. 41804 ID: a76809

>>351599
Because of the spiritual interaction of it and the hand that was Contracted to the one she had wed that very day under the ministrations of a priest that truly believed, when both of them ultimately died. So yeah, because of that connection, her gravedust has been demonically imbued a whole crapton.
>>
No. 41805 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351604
...this brings to mind what was said a while back, that the easiest way to make powerful magic items is to find something wonderful and do something as sadistic as possible to it.

Makes me wonder just what the goblins got up to in order to enchant our gun way back. They sure as hell didn't wave a hand over the thing and call it done.
>>
No. 41806 ID: b1f0e2

>>351605
Well there is a spine in it now...
And they have experts in "removing the heart of regenerating beasts without killing them"...
They have werewolves, vampires, trolls, and phoenix are prisoners having their hearts constantly harvested as they regenerate...

>>351604
Would eating such dirt work to replenish/upgrade armas magic reserves?
>>
No. 41807 ID: b1f0e2

>>351606
and Eiryneses too... And probably more.
Anyways, the goblins are awesome... lets not turn on them just for being squeamish.
>>
No. 41812 ID: 3fd4fb

>>/quest/342202
>Moment of truth:
>So try to form a majority here

>>/quest/342212
>make a bunch of phone calls and then do a big cooking thing

What the hell, man. What the hell. The delays alone are unacceptable; the longer we wait the more everything we have on us is going to be exposed to nasty devil-radiation. But more than that, Silja is not in a state where she would be able to actually appreciate any kind of cooking- she needs the raw magic and life force inherent in the things she's eating, not savory spices. Cooking for her is basically completely pointless.


>>/quest/342211
I would consider Silja sort of an angry dead herself, honestly; she sure isn't resting easy. Given that, an erinyes heart seems rather appropriate to me. A sceadugenga wouldn't be bad, though, and my plan would be to share many meals in the future so it's not a big deal which we choose.
>>
No. 41814 ID: eb6df8

>>351598
How long would we have needed to wait before coming back here for the "full" prize?
>>
No. 41816 ID: b1f0e2

>>/quest/342212
>IGNORE ALL WEIRD LOOKS FROM FINNISH WOMEN. MAN GOTTA HAVE SOME ALONE TIME WITH HIS SASHASILJA
Is falcon suggesting we molest our rifle?
>>
No. 41818 ID: 607629

Hmm, I personally think Armas's gun should be our main love interest.
>>
No. 41819 ID: 607629

... If we do decide to molest our gun, she wouldn't like, absorb Amras's junk, would she?
>>
No. 41821 ID: eb6df8

Can't we feed her both Scaedugenga AND Eryines hearts?

Would that be bad?
>>
No. 41826 ID: c6ce12

>>>/quest/342228
That's not true, we've fed her an entire female Encantado before. I'm not sure where you're pulling the creation representation from either.
>>
No. 41840 ID: a7469e

>>351616
Not even close. I mean how would you even pull that off?

Just running on a hunch and Lenryt memories.


And to that guy in /quest/ that I can't bother going to find the link for again, why would SM be annoyed that we are giving him business?
I understand that he is a busy mangoblin, but he always seems happy enough to show up when we call him in the sewers.

And besides, he loves information. I'm sure he would be happy to trade for a [[REDACTED]]Version of what is happening to Silja.

or a few hours of free training.

>>351612
Fiiiineee.
Though I do think that actions with a dose emotion would help her...not sure why I think so. I just do.
And having those emotions be one of infatuation with the suave bastard that started wooing her before she had clear thoughts to know what was going on wouldn't hurt when it comes to negotiating the Amen thing.

IN FACT
now that I think about it more, this sort of thing (having her develop a positive emotional attachment to Armas before she is fully 'conscious') would be the the IDEAL so that she doesn't realize that the has AN ENTITY OF PURE HATRED at her beck and call to take revenge on the people that screwed her over, leading ultimately to Amen's release and the worlds ass being sodomized.

Being able to be a voice of reason that is listened to would be good to work this.

Also I don't see how waiting an hour to cook would negatively affect stuff in any way, this stuff has kept for who knows how long so it should be able to keep for an hour more. (barring temporal shenanigans of course)


Guile: I don't think she would care one way or another about the locale as she has no senses, being a gun and all, I'm just hoping that the act in itself would get through to her on an emotional/spiritual level more than physical.
>>
No. 41841 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351640
>so that she doesn't realize that the has AN ENTITY OF PURE HATRED at her beck and call
She no longer has any connection to Amen. Ogrimir took the relevant blood from her and put it in our eye, remember?

That's one of the big reasons that everyone is willing to aggressively move forward with waking Silja up. There's no longer any risk of her making Amen go berserk.
>>
No. 41843 ID: b1f0e2

Alright, so bob said before that a 5x single bloodline is going to start out more powerful than a layered bloodline of 3 types. But once leveled up the layered one ends up stronger.
Now, based on that we plan on killing a second Einher, asking Og for instructions on how to layer our bloodline, applying said instructions, and then eat an Einher heart.

Thing is, at that point we would have two einher hearts, the one we currently have, and the one we would claim for the next one we beat. This raises the question of why would we carry around the current heart if we are only going to eat one and only when we get a second one.
When it came up in IRC bob suggested we could just go ahead and feed the current one to Silja, I liked the idea and posted that as my suggestion.

However in retrospect there is an issue... it is possible that when we kill the next einher his heard would be unrecoverable. As such we should keep this heart as a backup. If we can recover a fresh heart next time, eat the fresh heart and feed the older heart we keep frozen to silja. If we can't recover a new heart then eat the frozen one. Although, before eating it have einrick examine it with his super vision and see if the soul bits leftovers have diminished over time. Freezing protects it against decay by bacteria but we have no idea if it works for preserving the soulbits. Although since he freezes it with his own magic ice and knows the purpose he most likely is doing it in a way that preserves the soulbits too.

So, anyways... current plan:
1. Kill second Einher.
2. Ask Og for blood layering.
3a. Eat heart of second Einher, then feed heart of first Einher (preserved) to Silja
3b. If heart of second Einher not recoverable, eat heart of first Einher.

How is that for our current plan?
>>
No. 41844 ID: b1f0e2

so, when the plan was made to throw snowballs at the charging angry Einher... How screwed would we have been had we actually gone through with it instead of SUSTing it?
>>
No. 41845 ID: b1f0e2

Can't we "downvote" like normal quests? I feel really bad saying SUST because I am being both rude (shut up) and mean (stupid)...
>>
No. 41846 ID: 5b429e

>>351640
Good except it needs 2.5 actually layer bloodline; because no matter what someone is going to forget about it.
>>
No. 41849 ID: a7469e

Ah right of course.

Still wanna go at it though, for several trivial reasons. Would love to see if my hunch pans out, but it's cool.
>>
No. 41872 ID: 3411ed

Bob, how much different has Silja's awakening been because we fed her 3 different hearts?
What would happened if we just fed her the hand and nothing else.

And more importantly, what differences did we made by feeding her the Einher heart?
>>
No. 41873 ID: a7469e

>inb4 our Gun becomes an Einherjar Flesh Titan monstrosity.
...
that shoots bullets from it's skull.
>>
No. 41874 ID: 7b643c

>Our collective faces when we become our rifle's bitch
>>
No. 41875 ID: a7469e

>>/quest/342458
>1. No way bunch of drunken Russian conscripts would be able to kill someone from Valkonen line like that. Even from regular non-magical branch family.

The full story is not known. You were not there and cannot say exactly wat happened. Though she can.

>2. Why would the Valkonen write it in English, if you have noticed only few people talked English on Valkonen grounds. Tartoalo, who is some magical beast, Einrik, who has spent 2 decades travelling the world, and Helmi... not sure why she knows it though.
>3. If she was of Valkonen line, she would have not been buried in who knows where but in a family graveyard.

To assume that all past members of the Valkonen only spoke Finnish just because the majority of the current ones do would be silly.
There are a plethora of possibilities as to why she could not have been buried on the grounds if she truly is a Valkonen which I can't bother to get into.
I will put one however because I feel like if I don't this will become a silly argument between two people who won't drop a point.

-she was banished and whoever had the tombstone made put her real name on it as a 'screw you' to the old family.

>4. Einrik would have known if she was one.

He can't see everything,(though he probably comes pretty damn close) and we have already seen evidence of things he cannot observe relating to this event.

5:
>VA______N____
>13 letters
>Valkonen
>8 letters

I took that as a rough 'picture' of what Armas was seeing rather than a 'to scale' rendition. I don't know how good his mental ruler/typewriter is, especially in the case of weathered old tombstones.


This is just a hunch, I don't know what will come of it. But since at least one person objected, I feel the need to explain my reasoning.
>>
No. 41878 ID: 3fd4fb

I wish we had a little more to go on than one line of text as to how Silja's attitude is. Deciding what tack of take in our upcoming conversation is very difficult with no indicators as to how she's feeling outside of plain text- we don't know if Silja is scared and confused, filled with all-consuming rage, or something completely different, and each one would call for different lines of conversation.

As things stand, I don't really feel justified in doing more than laying out some objectives and general principles and hoping that our social traits can carry us through this well. Which is why we have them, I guess, but still. Frustrating.


On a completely different trait-related topic, can SUST level up? What would it level up into?


>>351675
Believe it or not, I actually thought the same "Silja Valkonen" bit when I first read the gravestone. But I discarded the line of thought as both excessively convenient and ultimately irrelevant. Silja's lineage is no longer more than tangentially significant to what she is, particularly in an immediate sense.
>>
No. 41879 ID: a7469e

>>351678
'Shut Up Very Stupid Voices' mayhaps?

Yea, it is irrelevant, but understanding everything is a favorite past time of mine, especially since it may become important/useful in the future.
>>
No. 41895 ID: b1f0e2

>>/quest/342458
>>351675
I think there are several points falcon missed.
>1. No way bunch of drunken Russian conscripts would be able to kill someone from Valkonen line like that. Even from regular non-magical branch family.
I don't think you understand the concept of "non-magical". A non-magical member of the family has no powers beyond that of a normal human and is easily killable. especially if she was estranged from her family.

>2. Why would the Valkonen write it in English, if you have noticed only few people talked English on Valkonen grounds. Tartoalo, who is some magical beast, Einrik, who has spent 2 decades travelling the world, and Helmi... not sure why she knows it though.
Who said the valkonen wrote it? especially if she was estranged from her family.

>3. If she was of Valkonen line, she would have not been buried in who knows where but in a family graveyard.
A plausible scenario would be like this. Silja was a non magical member of the valkonens and estranged from her family, she was killed, her fiance (who was an english speaker) buried her with an english epitaph.

>4. Einrik would have known if she was one.
Would have known and would have told armas are two different things. Do recall the Einrik refuses to tell us why there are no longer branch families and told us to not ask anymore.

Einrik took one look at the gun and told us to stop calling it keihas, because her name is Silja.
Einrik also was shocked at the idea of binding her as a spirit animal, yet he is fine with hunting people to kill so you could cannibalize them. Either he has a selective sense of morality, or it was because she is family.
Those two things support the notion that he DID recognize her, and that he simply did not share that info with armas.

Of-course there are holes in this scenario, if I had to bet I would, after serious deliberation, bet against her being a Valkonen; most for occam's razor.
But the holes are not these supposed 4 issues.

>5. spacing
>VA______N____
>13 letters
>Valkonen
>8 letters

This is actually a pretty strong argument.
Although it does assume monospace letters which are rarely used, letters are typically different sized. As falcon suggested it could just be a rough approximation by bob, and finally, is it left justified or center justified?

>Other theories
I also think it is possible that she was never buried here, and that instead this headstone was made for Armas to find by whomever placed the box there. That would justify english text.
>>
No. 41896 ID: b1f0e2

>>351678
well spoken on all accounts.
>>
No. 41898 ID: a092ef

What?
No update today? Why?!

Does Bob do that on purpose? I mean, skipping updates on the biggest cliffhangers?
I haven't been exited for an update this much for a long time!

alright, I know he doesn't do that on purpose, I just was anticipating this update too much
>>
No. 41902 ID: 71baf1

>>351698
Deus Ex came out. Bob not updating was a given
>>
No. 41905 ID: b1f0e2

To clarify, bob actually said on IRC that deus ex 3 is why he didn't update.
>>
No. 41911 ID: 727854

Bob, could we have a clear definition on the Soul Size, on Soul Mass (are those two different things?), on Soul Limiter (is it a limiter of its growth speed, or a hard ceiling of how much it can grow) and such things?
>>
No. 41912 ID: 8ac182

>>351711
There are three possible characteristics of souls I think:

Mass
Power
"Size"

These have potential limits to magnitude and rate of growth, is that the case.

When we say Armas put half his soul in ShadowBro, and, fully recovered, he still has half a soul, which of the above three are we referring to?
>>
No. 41916 ID: c7c1c0

I would say all of the above.
>>
No. 41917 ID: a76809

>>351672
You're asking for a uniform answer to a contextual question. The Silja awakening thing was handled fully in a sandbox format-I don't have a set number of 'how it could go' so much as I have... well, had now-a sheet detailing different variables, and I crunched from there.
>And more importantly, what differences did we made by feeding her the Einher heart?
Now see, that? That's directly, shortly plot related, so in the interest of NOT making this a horrible meta pile, I will not answer it until it is no longer plot relevant.
>>351675 and others:
>talking about the gravestone and counting spaces for character count.
I'll keep this brief-you are all wrong. Beyond that, I'm not commenting until someone gets it 100% right or else you could just squeeze the answer out twenty questions style.
>>351678
SUST cannot level up.
>>351711
>Soul Size:
The gross volume of a soul, most impacted by the magical content of the entity whose soul is being assessed. More magic equals larger soul size. It is not a perfect direct correlation, but enough so that it won't steer you grievously wrong.
>Soul Mass / Soul Weight:
The density of a soul, most impacted by the individual experiences the soul has, and the challenges it overcomes. Again, not a perfect direct correlation, but close enough.
Soul Mass and Soul Weight ALMOST always correlate, in that larger souls are denser-however this is because usually acquiring more magic also means acquiring more experiences in the process.


If I missed any questions, please repeat them.
>>
No. 41920 ID: 727854

So, folks. Not talking about this in quest yet because of Paranoia, but we should try to look into a safe way to check if we are the Armas that sold his soul.
>>
No. 41921 ID: fc541d

>If I missed any questions, please repeat them.

this
>>351614

Also,
>I will not answer it until it is no longer plot relevant.
Will this be plot relevant for a long time?
>>
No. 41943 ID: b1f0e2

>>351717
>Soul Mass and Soul Weight ALMOST always correlate, in that larger souls are denser-however this is because usually acquiring more magic also means acquiring more experiences in the process.
1. Does experience lead to more soul weight or more soul mass?
2. You seem to imply that one of those, either mass or weight, is equal to volume... is that the case? or are volume, weight, and mass all separate things?
3. Is size the same as volume?
4. Weight in physics is Mass * Local gravity. It is measured in Neutons or Pounds. Kg is a measure mass, not weight. This makes the term a bit confusing when applied to something like a soul, unless there is something like gravity for souls which varies from place to place... Like, areas where a certain amount of soul is worth more or less.
>>
No. 41948 ID: b1f0e2

>>/quest/343144
>>/quest/343149
She is blind, deaf, and unable to move. I think that is more her concern. Potentially she might not want to look like a monstrosity (Armas btw maintained his perfectly normal looks while engaging in his transformations. Unlike Savoy).
Basically I think this philosophical angle is missing the point.
>>
No. 41951 ID: a76809

>>351721
>How long would we have needed to wait before coming back here for the "full" prize?
It's not a temporal question, there is no set period of time that would have enabled the 'full' prize. It is a question of whether Armas' soul was sufficient to withstand the increased malevolent magical might-could take him just a few short weeks, could take him years-could never happen. I know you wanted a clear cut answer-but this question just doesn't have one.
> Will this be plot relevant for a long time?
That's dependent on you as the player, isn't it?
>>351743
>1. Does experience lead to more soul weight or more soul mass?
...Right, looks like I made a pretty goodly sized typo in my last answer batch.
-Experience is the big thing for Soul Weight, which is the same thing as Soul Density.
-Magic is the big thing for Soul Size, which is sometimes called Soul Mass.
Yes the terminology is convoluted and inefficient-wouldn't you know most of the things that really study this aren't humans, and don't give a rats ass if it's easily put into words.
>2. You seem to imply that one of those, either mass or weight, is equal to volume... is that the case? or are volume, weight, and mass all separate things?
-Soul Mass / Soul Size are the 'volume' related soul properties. Getting this value for a soul up increases the physical area the soul is considered to occupy.
-Soul Weight / Soul Density is the 'density/compactedness' of the soul. Getting this value up makes the soul harder to manipulate-for anything.
-DISCLAIMER: Having a bigger/heavier soul is NOT an upgrade-it improves certain values, and creates new problems. It is merely a CHANGE. So please feel free to site this post to beat people over the head with if they start claiming a larger/heavier soul is 'better'. A heavier soul is less flexible, a larger soul is more noticeable-and that's just the surface.
>3. Is size the same as volume?
Indeed it is.
>4. Weight in physics is Mass * Local gravity. It is measured in Neutons or Pounds. Kg is a measure mass, not weight. This makes the term a bit confusing when applied to something like a soul, unless there is something like gravity for souls which varies from place to place... Like, areas where a certain amount of soul is worth more or less.
As usually, it's pretty rare for a scientist or any other rationalist-minded individual to just stumble onto magic, the names were set BEFORE anyone could go 'hey, that's not an entirely accurate name'. At this point the terms are self sustaining: They are the terms because they've been the terms for as long as anyone can remember. Also didn't you mean Newtons, not neutons?



More questions?
Or comments?
Or whatever?
>>
No. 41955 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351751
>More questions?
>Or comments?
>Or whatever?
One comment: Very early in this quest it moved a lot faster, and in my view that was a good thing. Now, I know that a certain amount of that is due to the fact that now we've got all kinds of stuff built up and there's a lot more to worry about, but reading back the difference feels extreme- these days things seem almost bogged down.

Now, I'm not sure if you consider the direction that the quest has taken a beneficial one, or if this is just a matter of gradual slide towards the current style, but perhaps reassessing it and considering moving back towards a faster-paced game would be possible? It's not that I don't enjoy the occasional in-depth conversation or detailed combat sequence, but Armas' personality and capabilities are well enough established that we don't need manual piloting most of the time- a lot of what we do is basically predictable. You're pretty good with sticking leading questions at the end of posts, which can make up for most of what isn't.
>>
No. 41956 ID: a76809

>>351755
Are other players okay with this? Last I checked there's frequently quite a bit of contention over what Armas would do in a given situation.

This is a non rhetorical question, by the way.
>>
No. 41961 ID: 252e1b

>>351756

We've had some really dumb ideas lately that we've had to talk each other out of, so, no I'm not really OK with a faster game. Not right now anyway.
>>
No. 41962 ID: 856690

Considering how we are all idiots, having faster pace might kill Armas...

Then again, who knows what would happen, but personally I like finding a big chunk of suggestions and a big update preceeding it.

A number of our problems with armas have been dice going badly on us (Us getting bad rolls and Bob getting rolls which are unfavourable to Armas).

Of course in my case, I don't suggest often due to people covering what I wish or not wanting to make things worse.

Part of the problem is;
On one side, it is a game, and as players we need time to consider thing.

On the other, in a lot of situations Armas doesn't have time.

Personally I'm happy with anything as long as Armas can continue his antics.
>>
No. 41967 ID: 0e8912

I wouldn't mind if it was a bit more fast-paced
>>
No. 41975 ID: 0e8912

>Just what is it I'm going to do at Hayha's grave, exactly?

I honestly have no idea, and seeing the lack of responses I am guessing that the other people don't have any suggestions either.

This is why I was so apprehensive about this visit.
>>
No. 42000 ID: 8ddb32

We learned early in the quest that wood absorbs or accumulates magic more easily than metal, but how do other materials compare? Presumably, organic materials like wool or leather take it easier than something synthetic like a thermoset plastic. And while I'm on the topic, do precious metals work better than base metals?
>>
No. 42015 ID: 9c9b0d

Bob, how does Armas' blind eye look like from outside anyway?
Is it something like the OP picture (Big Crazy) from the current thread?
Or maybe something else?

What are / would be the reactions of normal people when seeing it?

I imagine it like a glass eye which constantly cries.
>>
No. 42020 ID: a76809

>>351800
>We learned early in the quest that wood absorbs or accumulates magic more easily than metal, but how do other materials compare?
Rule of thumb: Things that ARE alive are the easiest to imbue with magic, things that WERE alive are next easiest, in order of how recently they WERE alive-and things that never were alive come in last.
>Presumably, organic materials like wool or leather take it easier than something synthetic like a thermoset plastic.
This assertion is accurate.
>And while I'm on the topic, do precious metals work better than base metals?
Only when you are using a specific magical imbuement that is built to work on precious metals-such imbuement's are pretty rare, even amongst metal-based enchantments.
>>351815
>Bob, how does Armas' blind eye look like from outside anyway?
Picture a cold iron ball, not very smooth, with some small bit of pitting on it's surface. Put a square strip of paper over where the cornea and pupil would be, something yellowed with a brown-black bit of calligraphy glyphs inscribed on it. Then surround the whole thing in a few millimeters or perfectly transparent ice. So a paper festooned metal ball inside a sphere of ice that is always leaking but never melting.
>What are / would be the reactions of normal people when seeing it?
Depends. 'Normal' people would assume you a weird as fuck eccentric with a gag or gimmick fake eye. Paranoid people, or children with lots of imagination could be seen to assume you are some sort of magical fellow. Whether or not they do anything about that belief is up to each individual.




Any more questions?
>>
No. 42023 ID: 3fd4fb

>>/quest/343673
>1.) Einher can sense us as a wounded fire giant. He's very likely to try and catch us if we start running away, as we're a great target for a new Einher wanting to test his stuff out. So the entirety of our plan being turn the fuck around and go away may very well fuck us hard.
>2.)He's a goddamned Einher. Convincing him to run away will be really damned difficult.
I may have phrased my suggestion poorly- what I meant was, as long as our Contract does not punish us for failing to kill an Einher when we genuinely intended/tried to do so, then we have the simple exit strategy available of Einrik and Hillevi jumping us, beating us into unconsciousness, and hauling our insensate body away until the Einher is more than a league from us.

Now, if we ask them to do that we'd almost certainly be in breach of contract, but if they decide that it's appropriate for them as friends to solve this conundrum for us of their own initiative, we couldn't be held responsible by any reasonable measure. And they can obviously take a baby Einher if there's any trouble, so that's hardly a problem.

This escape strategy is usable even if we've met and talked with the Einher, although given that the text of our contract states "slay any Einherjar you encounter" we might be obligated to try and hunt them down eventually, depending upon the exact effects of the binding- if they're an Einherjar and we encountered them we might have to slay them, even if we did/could not do so during our initial meeting.



In brief: If Einrik leans over in the car and punches us really hard right now, I'm pretty sure it would solve this problem.
>>
No. 42029 ID: 595c2b

Well, this is what I get for missing out on a lot of stuff.

What was the IRC channel again? It was on IRC Rizon, right?
>>
No. 42030 ID: 71baf1

>>/quest/343750
I would like to point out, VERY HARD, that

>without exception-you need not slay them the moment you lay eyes on them, but they
>cannot escape your presence once noted-and this will not be negotiated."
>cannot escape your presence once noted

Was not actually part of the deal we made. It was part of us discussing the deal. The deal we made is

>"...Well well-I suppose I shall have to accept that then. For the 'lofty reward' of a soon-to-be-immortal's service one week per season for three and ten years, and for Soul-Swearing to slay any Einherjar you encounter for the same period, I shall restore your winter Node, I shall empower both your body and your Soul Shadow's Winter attributes until they are five times the standalone Mortal capacity limit, gift you the passive ability to sense any Einherjar within a league of your position, imbue you with supernatural resistance to cold to go with your perceptual resistance, briefly enter your Soul-Shadow and converse with your other self at a time of your choosing and invoking to share my thoughts on his Wintrish works, and to reward you with any information you desire from the fields of the Winter or Summer Court, The Dark, The Nevernever as a whole, and in general anything but myself each time you slay an Einherjar. Now, what do you say to my offer? Incidentally, while impressive haggling up to this point I believe my presence is going to stop your heart in eight seconds-so choose swiftly."

Anything beyond what is said there is something we keep in mind only to stay on good terms with Og. It's not anything we have to follow.
>>
No. 42033 ID: b1f0e2

What happens if we meet an Einher, but before we kill it, it is killed by an unrelated third party?
>>
No. 42043 ID: b1f0e2

Our exact deal and negotiation with Ogrimmir can be found here:
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/316398.html#331460
>>/quest/331460
>>
No. 42094 ID: b1f0e2

>>351751
1. "Experience" confuses me. Is "Combat XP" (from fighting level appropriate strong enemies) or "life experiences" (love, hate, ups, downs, pain, sorrow, happy memories, simple pleasures, hobbies, etc... from living longer)
2. You mentioned Size/Mass/Volume increasing with age before, but now you are saying it is magic dependent. So, does age increase Size/Mass/Volume which makes a soul more magical... or does it mean that saturating a soul with magic (like armas does) causes it to increase Size/Mass/volume, and incidentally this is ALSO increased by age
3. When fighting powerful opponents, does it increase soul Weight/Density?
4. When fighting powerful opponents, does it increase Soul Size/Mass/Volume
5. Are there other attributes for a soul besides Weight/Density and Size/Mass/Volume?
6. Does fighting powerful opponents increase those other attributes if they exist?
>>
No. 42097 ID: 3fd4fb

Why are we getting a rush of votes for plan B here? I don't see any counterpoint to the logic I presented in >>/quest/343887 as to why it is a strictly inferior plan to plan A.

Basically, given that Ogrimir is an entity with great spiritual powers and perception, there is no reason to think that he'd differentiate between running away physically and running away spiritually. The two will almost certainly be the same in his eyes, and one is a hell of a lot harder on us. If we mean to run, we might as well take the easy route.

And "the Einher might follow us if we run physically" has the trivially easy solution of peeling off the damn charm, which would also enable us to get the jump on other Einher we sense in the future. We came up with the lure plan before we got our Einher-dar, so we don't really need it anymore even if it would be useful for drawing them in from farther off and thereby netting us more questions.
>>
No. 42117 ID: b1f0e2

8-31-2011 IRC Chatlog, very interesting info. Bob suggested we might want to update wiki

<MrTT> the current consensus is to just drive away
<TheBeardiestBob> Anyone have any questions?
<TheBeardiestBob> Like, for example, whether attempting to drive away would royally fuck you?
<TheBeardiestBob> Just an example.
<MrTT> we do
<MrTT> i posted that i wanted to ask einrik if he knows whether it is possible to inadvetedly violate a soul oath
<MrTT> what the results for such would be if it is possible
<MrTT> and whether he thinks our interpretation is valid within the rules
<TheBeardiestBob> Oh well that's simple
<MrTT> i get the feeling that if armas doesn't go in there and kill whomever that einher is he will meet a bad end
<TheBeardiestBob> a soul oath that is broken will slay the one that breaks it
<TheBeardiestBob> simple as that
<TheBeardiestBob> that's why it's called a soul oath
<MrTT> ah
<TheBeardiestBob> because it holds each deal maker's soul as collateral to fulfilling the oath
<MrTT> a mini update with einrik's answer to that question might be VERY relevant to most people's voting I think...
<TheBeardiestBob> Too drunk for that
<TheBeardiestBob> tomorrow I will update
<TheBeardiestBob> but now?
<TheBeardiestBob> Drunk as fuck
<MrTT> can i go and post this, as the answer that einrik would be giving?
<MrTT> as in "I asked bob what would einrik say if Armas asked him whether it is possible to break a soul oath and what the result of that would be if it is"
<MrTT> and bob said einrik would say that breaking a soul oath results in instant death
<TheBeardiestBob> What, that breaking a soul oath claims the soul of the one that breaks it>?
<MrTT> yes
<TheBeardiestBob> Problem is Armas doesn't know that
<TheBeardiestBob> so why would you post it?
<TheBeardiestBob> He needs a reason to know a given thing
<MrTT> the reason is that we are going to ask einrik before driving away...
<MrTT> posted that earlier and I think 2 people upvoted the question IIRC
<TheBeardiestBob> But that still does not resolve the issue
<TheBeardiestBob> How would Armas know?
<TheBeardiestBob> and if Armas wouldn't know
<TheBeardiestBob> what legitimate reason is there for this knowledge to influence posters?
<MrTT> now he doesn't know, but as soon as he asks Einrik he will know
<MrTT> >Is it even possible to break a soul swear or will I just find myself unable to do so?
<MrTT> Before you do anything else, ask Einrik if he knows that answer. He probably would know more then you about that and it is worth knowing what is at stake here. If it is possible to violate then ask if he knows what the results would be if you do break it. Do you walk out on your powers, or should you expect something worse?
<MrTT> If einrik doesn't know, maybe SM would be able to clarify... make sure you never insinuate that you wish to break a deal, rather that you are concerned about unintentional violations. Although you are also curious to know about intentional violations but not for purpose of doing it yourself.
<MrTT> If we do accidentally break the deal, we clarify to Ogrimmir and SM, that we acted within what we thought was the confines of the deal.
<MrTT> And it got upvotes
<MrTT> so basically next update, before armas actually drives away, he should ask einrik... einrik answers "you die and your soul is claimed as collatoral if you violate a soul oath"... at which point the "drive away" plan gets a wrench thrown into it
<MrTT> my current plan is, once armas gets the answer, he pays SM to give him a tracer on that einher. then drives away, that way his ass is covered for sure
<TheBeardiestBob> Quite frankly, from a player perspective plan B is the 'safest' as while it costs more, no matter how the rules ultimately lay, you are safely outside them.
<TheBeardiestBob> It a 'you pay' but also a 'complete immunity to possible ramifications outside the ones you know and are prepared for (soul damage).'
<MrTT> but, plan B relies on the current situation NOT being a meeting yet
<MrTT> same as plan A
<MrTT> whether we drive away now, or have shadowbro swap with us now, meet him, then drive away, we are still going out of his presence
<MrTT> or we are not, depending on whether where we are now counts as presence or not
<TheBeardiestBob> but, should the interpretation of the rules be a worst case scenario, plan A results in Armas' death. No matter HOW the rules are interpreted, by plan B Armas never actually encounters the Einher-as if he drives away, at some level he acknoweledges that, while not knowing WHO the Einher is-he has a damn good idea.
<TheBeardiestBob> While swapping with Shadowbro can easily manipulate previously used self deception to stay clear of such danger thoughts.
<MrTT> I still cannot fathom why swapping with shadowbro now doesn't mean the exact same thing
<MrTT> ... wait... what if einrik knocks us out and shadowbro takes our memories of the encounter?
<TheBeardiestBob> Because Armas can decieve himself into thinking he should give Shadowbro a chance to socialize, a chance to grow as a person-an attempt to feel good for having 'humanized' his shadow, an action both displaying dominance by commanding it, and empathy for 'granting' emotion.
<TheBeardiestBob> he can make himself think he's doing this for a personal gain as a result of a possible scenario
<TheBeardiestBob> rather than 'I know who the Einher is in all but fact'
<TheBeardiestBob> That's how damn useful a lvl 6 social trait is
<MrTT> so, he will manipulate himself into making this a non-issue?
<MrTT> huh
<TheBeardiestBob> ...But again, frankly you guys have been using the Trait relatively shittily.
<TheBeardiestBob> not a non-issue, so much as a scenario to self improve, rather than the identification of a probably familial Einher.
<TheBeardiestBob> Hey Al
<TheBeardiestBob> no update tonight as I got back late drunk as fuck
<TheBeardiestBob> and have smoked like a chimney since there
<MrTT> hi Al
<AlratanMobile> Hi guys
<MrTT> alratan, you are logged in twice
<MrTT> hey bob, we were thinking... someone brought up that a bear gall bladder goes for, IRL, 200,000$ a pound... that is just one of the rare animal parts
<TheBeardiestBob> problem is that the Magical item market is a niche market, and within that niche market, the majority are aware most merchants can abuse the Other Side / Nevernever's principles to farm materials en masse.
<MrTT> so we were thinking, how much would a troll heart or phoenix heart could be worth... millions? what if we call lo fang and say "we are thinking of buying, what do you have in far of rarer magical meats"... if he gives low price, then we found a new source to buy extra meats. if he gives a high price we can go "shit for this much I should be hunting, what percentage of that figure can I expect for what I bring in?"
<MrTT> well, if they ARE abusing the market in such a manner then we should be able to buy cheap
<MrTT> so its a win-win for us
<MrTT> we either sell or we buy, depending on price ranges
<MrTT> "<TheBeardiestBob> because it holds each deal maker's soul as collateral to fulfilling the oath" - wait, does that mean that if Og inadventedly violates his terms of the deal armas gets Og's soul?
<TheBeardiestBob> Haha
<TheBeardiestBob> if only you knew
<TheBeardiestBob> short answer no
<TheBeardiestBob> and you have to work out long answer yourself
<TheBeardiestBob> otherwise it defeats the purpose
<MrTT> i wonder though
<MrTT> mmm, i bet its not enough to just say "I soul swear"... you need magic to bind it
<MrTT> i wonder how much a soul is worth
<MrTT> and whether we can get armas to make deals where other people soul swear to do something...
<MrTT> So, we are sure Og is not Odin right?
<TheBeardiestBob> Swearing on your soul is easy
<MrTT> or Thor, or Loki
<TheBeardiestBob> making it more than words is hard as fuck
<MrTT> awww, so no "armas the soul merchant" then?
<TheBeardiestBob> but if you do it, you've basically enslaved someone in a confined geas.
<TheBeardiestBob> You can see the use of that.
<TheBeardiestBob> or you are enslaved
<TheBeardiestBob> with soul oaths
<TheBeardiestBob> SOMEONE is getting bound
<TheBeardiestBob> that's kind of the original point of them,
<MrTT> it seems almost like a trap... something that is more beneficial for you to get the other person to fail to adhere to their side of the bargin
<MrTT> cause once they do, their soul is yours
<TheBeardiestBob> you guys should be happy I am at that optimal level of high and drunk, as I am freely giving out world principles for GfH I normally wouldn't, that would frankly be well suited for entry to the wike
<TheBeardiestBob> wiki
<TheBeardiestBob> and FRRRRRANKY!!
<TheBeardiestBob> Well, consider the fae
<TheBeardiestBob> they are bound to the truth, and upholding their deals, unless you break them first
<MrTT> i get a feeling SM will be in real trouble if we mention his accidental violation of the deal
<TheBeardiestBob> so of course they would have to learn to work within such constraints
<TheBeardiestBob> they are sapient, intelligent beings
<TheBeardiestBob> why would they LIKE being bound to certain patterns?
<TheBeardiestBob> So when they see others acting outside what they can do
<TheBeardiestBob> they attempt to adapt it
<TheBeardiestBob> have been doing this for quite some time
<MrTT> ah, the "only a mortal may change the balance of the courts" thing
<TheBeardiestBob> not so much that
<TheBeardiestBob> as supernatural origin beings can do it
<TheBeardiestBob> but usually only the really heavy hitters
<TheBeardiestBob> the ones that get to make their own choices, basically
<TheBeardiestBob> wheras mortals/humans
<TheBeardiestBob> EVERY ONE OF THEM
<TheBeardiestBob> has that
<MrTT> wait, if Og DOES gain armas' soul from armas failing to uphold his deal... well armas' soul is now closely related to waitiri... i get a feeling that gives Og power over waitiri
<TheBeardiestBob> that's humanities one saving grace, considering their relative perceptual, physical and spiritual shittiness.
<TheBeardiestBob> Not only can the freely make their own choices-an immensce thing-they all are... habituatable
<TheBeardiestBob> that's the biggest thing humans have
<TheBeardiestBob> not free will
<TheBeardiestBob> not adabtability
<TheBeardiestBob> Just the ability to slowly make anything the norm
<TheBeardiestBob> and make it regular, unremarkable-something expected and hardly regarded, but utterly believed in.
<MrTT> does that mean, that humans can alter the rules that bind the fae in such a manner?
<MrTT> by making something mundane enough that the fae can now do it?
<MrTT> via shared belief?
<TheBeardiestBob> That's how Liches happen, that's how Vampires started, that's how werewolves started-and ultimately yes MrTT, but not on an individual scale
<TheBeardiestBob> not yes to your last two blurbs
<MrTT> yes, yes to the "humans as a whole (not as individuals" can alter the rules by collective belief... and that is how you have vampires, and liches, and werewolves.
<MrTT> mmm, what about dragons? did collective human belief bring those about too?
<MrTT> and wizards?
<TheBeardiestBob> no and no
<TheBeardiestBob> dragons exist as the epitome of magic integration to physical systems-the perfect apex predator, if you will
<TheBeardiestBob> But Wizards
<TheBeardiestBob> wizards are like just stumbling onto antimatter and super-lightspeed physics simultaneously-something so radical that it defies normal progression. Dragons originally had everything-but Mortals came along, brought with them their rare Wizards... and their Gods.
<TheBeardiestBob> Some dragons are still a bit miffed about that.
<TheBeardiestBob> I'm signing off soon for sleep
<TheBeardiestBob> so if there's more questions
<TheBeardiestBob> ask them now
<MrTT> yea, what if we bought a tracer spell from SM like I suggested as an ass cover?
<MrTT> It seems to me like it would work
<MrTT> since, if sensing him counts, then we don't stop knowing where he is
<TheBeardiestBob> you can't get it without meeting in person to recieve it
<TheBeardiestBob> so catch 22
<AlratanMobile> Another question, does the strength of he donater matter for how powerful a winter bloodline we get by eating their heart
<MrTT> aww man... so can't have Einrik retrieve a hair of his without meeting him and use it to cast a tracer?
<TheBeardiestBob> No, and no.
<AlratanMobile> Or use a blood based tracer that detects relatives?
<TheBeardiestBob> As the person you kill acts as the spark of the bloodline
<TheBeardiestBob> not the foundation
<MrTT> so if we do kill this einher
<cUP> One question before you go
<MrTT> ask ogrimir to compound our bloodline, and eat his heart. we get ourselves the bloodline as good as killing an experienced einher
<MrTT> good to know
<cUP> The Einher we fought was able to discern the magical strength of our weapons enough to tell that Tartalo's hammer was the strongest
<TheBeardiestBob> your question?
<AlratanMobile> Why then do we get a better bloodline for Markku's heart than from any other valk's
<cUP> Does this mean that the Einher have inherit magical sensing more than just sensing enemies of their order?
<cUP> Some sort of general magic perception?
<TheBeardiestBob> Because Markku is recursive rule of three augmented. And cUP that is in fact correct, as they are ultimately designed to become magical spiritual beings they are more sensitive to magical and spiritual matters.
<cUP> Well that's nice
<MrTT> recursive loops of gaining power? awesome!
<cUP> Guess with Sami and Einher together our sensing issues will be a thing of a past
<MrTT> its like, powergaming in D&D Where the DM actually DOES allow you to be punpun :P
<MrTT> or chain-gating
<TheBeardiestBob> problem is that only make sit more likely major leagers with pay attention to you
<TheBeardiestBob> make IT more likely
<cUP> Odd side question, do Vampires grow hair? We were discussing this earlier. I hold that since their biological functions have basically stopped that aside from regenerating what once was they wouldn't grow more.
<MrTT> but counter argument is that without it they will all become bald, and they are already dead and regenerating impossible to regrow damage via magic
<AlratanMobile> A question, to use so
<MrTT> not via biology
<TheBeardiestBob> they do if they personally percieve their hair as 'injured'
<AlratanMobile> meone's heart as a spark, do they have to die
<AlratanMobile> Or can you cut it out and then have them healed?
<MrTT> ... are you thinking bargining with markku?
<TheBeardiestBob> Ah, you have to eat the heart for it to act as a spark
<AlratanMobile> Yes
<TheBeardiestBob> there's not that many ways to get around what that does to someone, cutting out and eating their heart
<TheBeardiestBob> and with that.
<TheBeardiestBob> good night
<AlratanMobile> But we know people who can regrow other people's organs
<cUP> Night
<MrTT> night
<cUP> As far as I know Markku can't
<MrTT> can't yet
<cUP> So you would have to rig a system for him to regrow it fairly quickly
<MrTT> but if we arrange for him to be able to
<cUP> Figure that out and then we'll start talking
<MrTT> instant heart regrowth potion
<AlratanMobile> Doony's regen is artificial
<MrTT> whoa it is? i thought it was natural
<cUP> TMI looked it up
<MrTT> also, didn't bob hint that eating doonie might cause a recursive power loop with our regeneration?
<cUP> In myth his regeneration was granted to him
<cUP> Same goes for in quest, but a lot of mythology was self written.
<MrTT> thanks for clarifying
<cUP> So pretty much anything but Bob confirmed things are iffy regarding him
<MrTT> also, actually bob said "regenerator meat + regeneration will cause a loop" but we already ate a lot of regenerator meat, its REALLY good for us but not infinite power good
>>
No. 42120 ID: b1f0e2

@Bob: A question. Is a level 1 trait basic proficiency?
That is, does armas have a bunch of level 1 traits that are not worth mentioning?
The way I see it armas is a level 1 shooter, not specified as a "trait" but as him having training as a shooter. While level 0 indicates complete lack of knowledge and skill... so, for example the average human is a level 1 manipulator while an antisocial neckbeard is the level0 exception.

Am I totally off the mark here? Can you clarify proficiency scale below "trait" level?
>>
No. 42121 ID: 7359ee

Is Armas Laine named for or related to Armas Valkonen?
>>
No. 42124 ID: 3fd4fb

>>351921
"Armas" is a common Finnish name. It's not impossible, but I'd call it a very, very low-probability scenario.

>>351917
Reading this, it implicitly states that Armas knowing who an Einher is matters as to whether he has to kill them or not. Why? His Contract as stated has nothing to do with whether he's identified Einher or not, only whether he has encountered/met them and they've been in his presence. It shouldn't matter if he's got absolute certainty as to their name, face, location, and powers; as long as they're at a safe remove from him he has no obligations regarding them whatsoever.

Likewise, the only distinction presented between Plan A and Plan B's results is in terms of Armas' beliefs on why he was doing something. Why does that even matter for the Contract? Armas' intent is never brought up as part of it, only his actions. If he tries to increase his power when he should be killing an Einher, why is that a safe escape clause while leaving the area when he should be killing an Einher is not? I could see Armas' intent logically mattering if that's what is referenced to determine if he is breaking the Contract or not, but that being the case shouldn't the determining factor be whether he can convince himself that he's not dodging the Contract at all rather than whether he can convince himself that he has a good reason for doing so?

Regardless, do I understand correctly from this that as long as Armas has sufficiently twisty internal and can make himself believe it, he can dance around Contracts all day?
>>
No. 42142 ID: b1f0e2

>>/quest/344524
>Can we have a Q&A session with in game characters in questdis please? That is, say "Ask Einrik A, B, C" and have answers and consider them as canon knowledge that Armas got by asking Einrik over those weeks of training/travelling together?

> <TheBeardiestBob> Yes you can hold the Q&A sessions. I will attach a date to each q&A session, and Armas is assumed to know it when that date has passed. THe more information in the q&a set, the longer it will take for Armas to find time to ask, meaning the farther out the date.

Alright, got the go ahead for that. So we can now post compiled Q&A that of Armas asking Einrik questions over time without breaking the flow of main Quest thread.
>>
No. 42150 ID: b1f0e2

Q&A @ Einrik:
1. Can you violate a soul swear, what is result.
2. How can a human like armas without a fetal god in his forehead improve his magical detection senses?
3. What are the basics of magic theory? that is, saying its extra dimensional got us a "water is wet, you fool" from SM, so if it's that obvious and well know what else is that obvious and well known?
4. What is the difference between "the dark" and the nevernever?
>>
No. 42153 ID: d97a61

>>351833
> What happens if we meet an Einher, but before we kill it, it is killed by an unrelated third party?
You die. If that 'third party' was in some way acting under your direction, and thus a minion enacting your will, it would count as you killing them. But an outsider? Oath invalidated, Soul claimed as collateral-Armas would die.
>>351894
1: It's all of them, that's why I said experiences. A trying fight you push yourself in? Experience. Reading a thought-provoking book? Experience. Slowly working over someone that hates you to hold a better opinion of you? Experience. The problem is the... the scope, if you will, of those experiences. The more a given experience forces Armas to redefine his limits, mental spiritual or physical, the more impact the experience has.
2: As I said earlier, Soul Weight / Density and Soul Size / Soul Mass both are fueled by similar things-it's a matter of what causes changes the most. For one it's primarily magic, for one it's primarily experiences. This does not mean either one is limited to only that source of growth.
3: There is no blanket answer to this. You could be fighting a more powerful foe with the intent of stalling, and not really be pushing yourself-and probably would hardly grow at all from it, relative to actually having a knock-down brawl with this stronger foe.
4: Stop asking unilateral questions, very few of them have actual concrete answers rather than contextual. You don't get the answer you want, and I can't answer as well because it's pretty hard to encapsulate all possible permutations in a single response. Be as specific as possible with your questions.
5: Courtly inclination, as spiritual scar tissue. I hopefully don't have to explain Courtly inclination, so Scar Tissue: If a soul is repeated brutalized and healed, brutalized and healed, portions of it most effected by damage will start to convert into spiritual scar tissue. This 'tissue' cannot provide power for determining soul weight or scale - all of it's power is coiled within itself, somewhat like a spiritual 'armor' for the soul. It's a sacrifice of offensive ability and total raw power for notably heightened spiritual defenses. I also strongly recommend not trying to find out how much scar tissue is too much.
6: See above.
>>351920
>A question. Is a level 1 trait basic proficiency?
I'm pretty certain I've answered that question while you've been present, but to be clear: A level 1 trait is what any non-impaired human could achieve. Not a peak human-any human. As such level one traits are not named, as otherwise Armas would have more than a hundred traits.
>>351921
No and no.
>>351924
> Reading this, it implicitly states that Armas knowing who an Einher is matters as to whether he has to kill them or not. Why? His Contract as stated has nothing to do with whether he's identified Einher or not, only whether he has encountered/met them and they've been in his presence. It shouldn't matter if he's got absolute certainty as to their name, face, location, and powers; as long as they're at a safe remove from him he has no obligations regarding them whatsoever.
The problem is defining the encounter area. Consider that, between his shitty little Einher alarm buzzer, he has a zone of a league in which he detects Einher. Doesn't tell him where they are, but just that they are there. Then you have Einrik, who was able to confirm the Einher was within a specific house-giving you a place, within that defined detection zone. Armas then developed a suspicion that he knows who the Einher is (Otsu). With that, he has: The name, identity and location of a perceived Einher within his zone of detection. That's more data than he'd normally have just accidentally running into an Einher, which would just have: Location, confirmation they are an Einher, visibly seen them. If the wording of the contract had said he needed to SEE the Einher for the encounter to activate, it would be a different story. But the wording was 'Encounter', and the above fully satisfies that.
> Why does that even matter for the Contract? Armas' intent is never brought up as part of it, only his actions. If he tries to increase his power when he should be killing an Einher, why is that a safe escape clause while leaving the area when he should be killing an Einher is not?
Because that way his suspicion that Otso is the Einher is unrelated to his decision to leave-so he is still left only having accepted information that: There is a nearby einher, and it is in this house my family lives in. That still left a possible pool of people the Einher could be-but so long as Armas does not identify the Einher specifically, have some way of noting them from a crowd-he hasn't 'encountered' them.
> Regardless, do I understand correctly from this that as long as Armas has sufficiently twisty internal and can make himself believe it, he can dance around Contracts all day?
He can dance around the gray area of Contracts, yes. But the clear-cut portions of Contracts-not so much.

>>351950
Einrik Q&A #1: 4 questions.
> 1. Can you violate a soul swear, what is result.
>[EV][In English]"It would be more accurate to call it a Soul Oath-or a Contract-rather than a soul swear. You swear an oath, and... well, that's semantics. Moving past that, yes you can violate a Soul Oath. I would not recommend it, as unless the Contract specifically stated otherwise, it will not only result in your death, but it will have such a result without warning. Again, unless it is explicitly part of the deal, there are now cautions if one strays near to breaking an oath.
> 2. How can a human like armas without a fetal god in his forehead improve his magical detection senses?
>[EV][In Finnish]"Quite frankly there's many ways you could improve your magical senses. The most straightforward, but slowest, would be to find someone willing to train you one on one, using their magic to probe your defenses as you slowly become more adept at feeling this interaction, and expanding from there. Quite time consuming. On the other end of the spectrum, near-death experiences, as they place your soul closer to having to exist as a standalone force, draw out more of your innate spiritual sensing abilities-in other words, you can gain ghostly spiritual detection abilities by constantly dancing about death's door. Not advisable from a safety standpoint-but there are certain things only the dead can sense properly, and such a change in one's senses could be most useful. ...Beyond that, nothing I can think of could compete with your own... gastro-intestinal method of taking from others."
>3. What are the basics of magic theory? that is, saying its extra dimensional got us a "water is wet, you fool" from SM, so if it's that obvious and well know what else is that obvious and well known?
>[EV][In English]"There are no basics to magic theory-each branch of magic-barring those practiced by Dragons, Gods or Wizards-has it's own rule set, and even those can shift between individuals or over time. As to... universal truths to magic as a whole? Few and far between-a general one is that magic is in general a magnetic - or perhaps it would be better to term it a gravitic force. This is a continuation of my earlier comment that coincidences are quite rare in magic. Essentially, all magic attracts all other magic, based on: The scope of the magics in question, their proximity, and whether both are in the same dimension. Yes, this does mean the attractive force can and frequently is enough to reach from Earth to the Nevernever, and vice versa. As your acquaintance the goblin merchant commented, all magic is intrinsically multi-dimensional. What he did not mention is that there is one exception to this: Beings wholly of the Nevernever using their power within their own zone, such as a Dreamwalker in their own demesne. That is a match only a fool would seek-for an overwhelming advantage is conferred to beings that can meet these conditions when using their magic."
>4. What is the difference between "the dark" and the nevernever?
>[EV][In English]"The Nevernever, the Other Side, the World's Shadow-whatever title you wish to use, ultimately you are referencing the entire realm of magic. By this I do not mean places like the Valkonen estate, partly real and partly not-only places that cannot be mundanely reached fall under this description. The Dark, or the Shadow, or the Gloom, is the collective set of zones in the Nevernever that connect to the mortal world via physical shadows. All of the Dark's residents are Shadow manipulators, shadow fiends divine shadows or soul shadows."

ARMAS LEARNS THIS: AFTER DEPARTING FROM THE OULO LAINE HOUSE.

Further questions can either be asked now, and Armas will learn them once a given date comes to pass, or he can 'retroactively' learn them by letting the story progress far enough that 'unused downtime' builds up, that can be filled with these Q&A sessions.
>>
No. 42154 ID: b1f0e2

Q&A @ Einrik:
>each branch of magic-barring those practiced by Dragons, Gods or Wizards-has it's own rule set, and even those can shift between individuals or over time.
1. How many branches are there? If a relatively small number, what are they called? If numerous, what are the most significant ones?
2. What branches of magic are you personally most familiar with?
>demesne
3. What is a demesne?
4. Is the nevernever the source of magic?
>>
No. 42178 ID: 3be793

><TheBeardiestBob> That's how damn useful a lvl 6 social trait is
><MrTT> so, he will manipulate himself into making this a non-issue?
><MrTT> huh
><TheBeardiestBob> ...But again, frankly you guys have been using the Trait relatively shittily.

Maybe, but then again, I suspect people don't really realize the things we could do with it. It is easy for you to say that we use it shittily as you know the whole scope of its power and can easily identify the situations where it can be applied.
For us it is like getting a device which we know several uses for but if we ever had the manual we would know a dozen more.
I, for one, was not aware how easy it is for Armas to lie to himself. If we can dance around the gray areas of truth with lvl6 trait, I suspect that at much higher levels we could deceive self even about topics which are clear as the day. Am I right?

Like, for example our NN deal with SM which states that we give away our strikes for the rest of our life. "Life", as in the most common understanding of the state of being "alive". Becoming undead does not count "alive". Right?
So if I understood that correctly, that could mean at high Manipulator level trait Armas could very well deceive himself into Believing that he has become a special kind of undead, a very obscure one, you probably have never heard of it (a Hipster Zombie if you will). Which for all intents and purposes would feel as a normal human but Armas will Truly Believe with the every fiber of him body and Soul that he is the member of this "special" undead race that he thought up. By doing that he will finalize the NN deal and be free to do what he wants with the Strikes again.
Could we pull off reality bending shit like that or is too much?

Eh, I have trailed off
Since we've been using our best trait so badly could you give us examples where we could have applied it and how? Or some interesting and new ways we can use it?
Or just general hints and pointers?



Another question:
When we were choosing our plans on how to resolve the Otso Einher situation, I voted for plan B. Not because I thought it was somehow more effective than A but because I thought it would give us a great deal of experience and Soul growth. Also that the act of spiritually changing places with Shadowbro will give us practice in spiritual manipulation and that in the future we could do the same thing easily and with less damage (if we continue to do it regularly after our souls recover eventually we would be able to do it with little to no damage at all, perhaps even change places with Sake)
I am correct? And how long would it have taken to recover from the damage?
....
And what would have happened if we went with that plan? Would we find self in a weird trippy place battling for Amen's Blood control or would the perspective shift to Shadow bro?

Speaking of Amens blood. When we win the fight, it will still be sealed in the eye, right? Or would it disperse through our body? ... Actually, could this be made as a question for Einrik?
>>
No. 42183 ID: b1f0e2

>NN Strikes with goblins
Unlike Og, Zosmas, the russian military, and several others, the goblins never actually magically bound armas to his word.
Armas can just break his word to the goblins at any time and the only loss is that his "Word like gold" trait is gone, and that the goblins themselves will be upset and stop their regular payments of things.
The biggest issue then would be to convince the goblins that the deal no longer applies. Which might be doable.

Also, I was thinking about how traits increase. Each is 2x the previous level. So the formula is 2^(X-1).
L=Level
P=Power
To quote bob: "A level 1 trait is what any non-impaired human could achieve. Not a peak human-any human"
L | P
01|01
02|02
03|04
04|08
05|16
06|32
07|64
08|128
09|256
10|512

There are beings out there with traits in the double digits. The blood manipulator was level 8 combat. Armas has level 4 close combat (8x normal human ability) and level 6 manipulator (32x normal human ability). That is some powerful manipulatoring.
>>
No. 42184 ID: b1f0e2

>(if we continue to do it regularly after our souls recover eventually we would be able to do it with little to no damage at all, perhaps even change places with Sake)
Bob said something previously that partains to this
>>351953
>Scar Tissue: If a soul is repeated brutalized and healed, brutalized and healed, portions of it most effected by damage will start to convert into spiritual scar tissue. This 'tissue' cannot provide power for determining soul weight or scale - all of it's power is coiled within itself, somewhat like a spiritual 'armor' for the soul. It's a sacrifice of offensive ability and total raw power for notably heightened spiritual defenses. I also strongly recommend not trying to find out how much scar tissue is too much.
>>
No. 42193 ID: 3be793

>>351984
>Bob said something previously that partains to this

I see...
But my point still stands. Shouldn't Armas and Bro become more experienced doing the body-switch that after several times they could do it without beating their Souls into submission?
The first time would be them brute-forcing the change with no knowledge or experience. Later, when they try again, they should be able to do it more delicately.

...
Actually, why don't we ask Einrik how to do that the best way possible? Add that into the Q&A's
>>
No. 42221 ID: b1f0e2

>>351993
in theory, semi shamanism will help a lot without doing damage to the soul.
I don't think we should practice soul damaging things until they don't damage the soul cause its too scarred.

I also see little point to the whole body switch idea.
>>
No. 42224 ID: 715620

Gonna drop this here:

[19:50]Shot__http://www.obakemono.com/obake/kameosa/
[19:50]Shot__>Put some weasel wine inside
[19:50]Shot__It's an infinite sake bottle we never need to carry.
[19:50]Shot__Fuck. Yes.
[19:52]Shot__Unless Weasel Wine literally cannot take on a physical manifestation
[19:53]TheBeardiestBobNo, your plan is valid
>>
No. 42233 ID: 6c7dbf

Are we able to do Q&As with characters other than Einrik that we've spent a lot of time with?
>>
No. 42341 ID: d97a61

>>351954
1. How many branches are there? If a relatively small number, what are they called? If numerous, what are the most significant ones?
>[EV][In Finnish]"I don't know if there's a man alive that knows all the branches of magic-best you can ever really hope is to meet someone knowledgeable about their own branch, and maybe some directly related ones. Not saying actual experts on a wide range of magic aren't out there-just that most of them do not care much about mortals. So, most significant branches... bear in mind each of these branches would have sub-branches: Thermal manipulation, Spiritual manipulation, , Flesh manipulation, Mind manipulation, Shadow manipulation, Boundary Manipulation, Gas manipulation, and Solid manipulation. You may note that sounds like it would include just about everything-but that only accounts for, from what I have seen, some 80% of all options. The rest is predominately countless one-off or hybridized abilities-like, for example, what you are planning for you Winter Bloodline Slot."
2. What branches of magic are you personally most familiar with?
>[EV][In Finnish]"Thermal and Spiritual manipulation are my strongest points, no question there. I'm fairly knowledgeable about Boundaries-but only within the very narrowly defined field of seals, wards and charms. I know some bare smattering about flesh manipulation, but my knowledge in the field is highly... unorthodox. I may know a few other things but I'd feel myself a poor advice giver with any of it save what I just mentioned."
3. What is a demesne?
>[EV][In Finnish]"You will find your answer within one of those wondrous texts called a dictionary. The archaic meaning of the word is largely identical to it's meaning where magic is concerned-the only difference is that owning a demesne actually means something innately, rather than because everyone involved believes or allows it to. Peasants within a demesne they did not care for could, if truly desperate, simply flee, or even rebel-no such action is possible for those owing service to the owner of a magical demesne while on the premises-the thought literally cannot even form."
4. Is the nevernever the source of magic?
>[EV][In Finnish]"Not quite: It IS magic, not the source or producer of it. It simple is."

ARMAS BECOMES AWARE OF THIS AFTER THE NEXT BIT OF TRAVEL HE DOES WITH EINRIK, WHICH SHOULD BE WHEN LEAVING THE WOODS HE ENCOUNTERED THE SAMI IN.

>>351978
>I, for one, was not aware how easy it is for Armas to lie to himself. If we can dance around the gray areas of truth with lvl6 trait, I suspect that at much higher levels we could deceive self even about topics which are clear as the day. Am I right?
This is correct-but you'd need to hit double digits to be able to easily, reliably deceive yourself on just about any topic.
>Like, for example our NN deal with SM which states that we give away our strikes for the rest of our life. "Life", as in the most common understanding of the state of being "alive". Becoming undead does not count "alive". Right?
Huge, HUGE flaw in this-He can convince himself of it-and he would have an easier time convincing others, yes.
>So if I understood that correctly, that could mean at high Manipulator level trait Armas could very well deceive himself into Believing that he has become a special kind of undead, a very obscure one, you probably have never heard of it (a Hipster Zombie if you will).
Armas could certainly make himself believe that.
>Which for all intents and purposes would feel as a normal human but Armas will Truly Believe with the every fiber of him body and Soul that he is the member of this "special" undead race that he thought up.
Again, yes-you could have Armas fanatical about this.
>By doing that he will finalize the NN deal and be free to do what he wants with the Strikes again.
NOPE. That would require SM to believe it, not just Armas. As far as manipulation targets go, SM is the hardest to ply you have yet encountered. Realistically I don't see you being able to convince him of it without there being some actual truth to your claim, rather than just your rigid belief.
>Could we pull off reality bending shit like that or is too much?
If you lie and say the sky is green-and let's say you can make yourself really, really believe it-does the sky change? No? Think of it like this-it would make attempts to read your mind or otherwise extract information against your will a nightmare. What good is a truth serum if you forced yourself to believe the lies as the truth? This is the biggest advantage of just powerlevelling M-trait from here. Because without some actual magical basis for the manipulation, it will top out for manipulating others just through mundane methods.
>Since we've been using our best trait so badly could you give us examples where we could have applied it and how? Or some interesting and new ways we can use it?
I just did.
>Or just general hints and pointers?
Stop treating Armas like a superhero. He has some fun tricks he can do, but he's still damn near identical to a human. Cut off his head, he dies. Bleed him out badly enough that his preheal is overwhelmed, he dies. Give him a mortal illness-he dies. Treat Armas like a coward made of wet paper-that's how you did it in the beginning, and if you will note that was when Armas was actually doing some decent planning with his highest regularity to date.
>When we were choosing our plans on how to resolve the Otso Einher situation, I voted for plan B. Not because I thought it was somehow more effective than A but because I thought it would give us a great deal of experience and Soul growth. Also that the act of spiritually changing places with Shadowbro will give us practice in spiritual manipulation and that in the future we could do the same thing easily and with less damage (if we continue to do it regularly after our souls recover eventually we would be able to do it with little to no damage at all, perhaps even change places with Sake)
IF Souls could not scar from spiritual wounds, your assertion would be perfect. However there's not really a practical way to make the benefits of such soul-based changes as you suggest worth the cost, in the form of making your soul a rigid, scar-riddled mass.
>And what would have happened if we went with that plan? Would we find self in a weird trippy place battling for Amen's Blood control or would the perspective shift to Shadow bro?
Battle in eye.
>Speaking of Amens blood. When we win the fight, it will still be sealed in the eye, right? Or would it disperse through our body? ... Actually, could this be made as a question for Einrik?
Well, if you win the fight the blood is then yours-and should the eye be unsealed, it would then disseminate through Armas' body.
>>351993
>But my point still stands. Shouldn't Armas and Bro become more experienced doing the body-switch that after several times they could do it without beating their Souls into submission?
Again, no-the soul scarring would negate any learned skills by denying your soul more of it's innate flexibility. Sure it would give you a more defensible soul-but really, you need an active bloodline with possession or some other magic that provides some measure of spiritual protection, otherwise the wounds of learning nullify anything you gain.
>The first time would be them brute-forcing the change with no knowledge or experience. Later, when they try again, they should be able to do it more delicately.
More like scores of times you'd have to brute force it before the nuances start to build up and what you do could be called 'delicate'. By which point it is too late.
>>352033
>Are we able to do Q&As with characters other than Einrik that we've spent a lot of time with?
Sure. But you may have noticed I'm only taking actual questions to characters. Not 'hey add this to Einrik's questions,' but actual structured questions that Armas himself could have asked.
>>
No. 42343 ID: 3fd4fb

>>/quest/345484
I utterly fail to comprehend why it is a rational course of action. Someone explain it to me if it is, please.

It seems overwhelmingly overconfident and foolish. Armas is a long-range ambush soldier who has likely already killed a shaman who is likely to be Laib Olmai-aligned; after all, all Stallon's worshippers were doing important things like fighting off the assault on their god and struggling to defend their noncombatants rather than hunting random people falling out of helicopters in the woods, yes? So we are already hostile to the Laib Olmai bunch. Why in the world should we cast aside our concealment and range advantage by closing towards talky distances with them, thereby drawing their attention, gifting them with the opportunity to hit us with whatever unknown tricks they have- if they are indeed like Big Crazy types, then they could have predator spirits that can shred our soul or other equally nasty abilities! Why are we letting them know we exist in any fashion other than a decisive strike when they outnumber us five to one?

What's more, there is the spirit of the guy we killed which will almost certainly come after us the moment that we appear in the open, thereby giving everyone on the battlefield who looks a clear view of where we are. That is a critical disadvantage either in negotiations or if they should prove hostile, a weakness that we can't afford.

We let Einrik take the lead here, and his decision was to hit hard and with no explanation; we should not be suddenly changing gears from combat to diplomacy mid-battle when we have let the situation become so confused that it's not even entirely clear who our allies are fighting.
>>
No. 42350 ID: 44766a

I have no idea if anybody will know what I am talking about but the Buntline sounds vaguely like Wild Card from Tales of the Questor.
>>
No. 42368 ID: df35d8

Hey, I don't think we have been meditating and exploring our chakras lately.
>>
No. 42373 ID: 3fd4fb

>>/quest/345696
>[REMINDER: SUST that are not part of an actual suggestion will incure negative mental traits just as will in-thread inter-poster arguing. Remember to actually suggest an action along with any use of SUST.]
But which is worse, falling into madness or willingly claiming the title of Penis Troll? I can't decide!
>>
No. 42374 ID: d8880b

Penis troll is an awesome name, dammit!
I do kinda want to see the insanity bad end too.
So I'd say neither of them are worse!
>>
No. 42416 ID: 3058cf

>[Silja]"It has to do with that massive.... somethings I feel, doesn't it?"
>Yes. We have encountered Stallon, the evil giant you may of heard of from folk tales, and as a result our aircraft is going to shortly be crashing.


Evil?
Now, I don't know about the rest of the players but I have not a single clue what Stallon is .... or any of the other Sami groups.
Don't know how they are perceived, if they are good or bad. Nothing.
I thought that the same would apply to Armas too, but I guess he knows SOMETHING about them (or he just lied to Silja).

Anyway,
Bob, can you share information about this evil Stallon tribe and Laib Olmai group?
The fact that we know nothing about them makes it hard to make any decisions.

Actually...
"Einrik, can you tell me more about the Stallon and Laib Olmai tribes? I admit that I know little of them and having as much as information before meeting them would be most preferable"


>>352141
>NOPE. That would require SM to believe it, not just Armas. As far as manipulation targets go, SM is the hardest to ply you have yet encountered. Realistically I don't see you being able to convince him of it without there being some actual truth to your claim, rather than just your rigid belief.

I see. That makes sense.
But doesn't that mean that if in the future Deals we manage to sneak in a clause that comes into effect only when we perceive something personally, we could get away with some really dick-ass moves?
Like for example: "[...]I will serve you until I see that the sky turns red." (perhaps word it better to make it more subtle) and then promptly lie to yourself that it has turned red thus finishing the contract.
And if that is possible, would that count as a breach of contract and we will lose the Word Like Gold trait (technically we did nothing wrong)?

>Since we've been using our best trait so badly could you give us examples where we could have applied it and how? Or some interesting and new ways we can use it?
>I just did.
That was a good example, though we haven't yet been consciously mind probed for our secrets which we don't want to give away yet (unless we count Amen).
But you didn't say that we weren't "using the trait to full potential" but that we use it "shittily", meaning that we must have missed many, many golden opportunities to have it applied in many situations in the past.
Could you share some examples where we could have achieved great success by using it. You could use the events that are not relevant anymore so that we can't meta (much).

>Stop treating Armas like a superhero. He has some fun tricks he can do, but he's still damn near identical to a human. Cut off his head, he dies. Bleed him out badly enough that his preheal is overwhelmed, he dies. Give him a mortal illness-he dies. Treat Armas like a coward made of wet paper-that's how you did it in the beginning, and if you will note that was when Armas was actually doing some decent planning with his highest regularity to date.

So... no more mounting a multiton, dangerous mythical beast to charge it straight into a horrible sea monster which is dead set on killing us, so that we can hit it with our rifle? :(

...We REALLY need to get those Einherjar and other powers.

*mumble*stupid question, about the stupid rifle and the stupid servant.*mumble* As far as I can see we would have benefited stupidly more from multi-layer bloodline question. Not only have we made it harder to use our best weapon but also lost the use of our Brothers for a undetermined time, AND if we didn't transfer Amens blood into our eye, then we wouldn't have gone to Siljas grave so early, meaning that the next time we went there we would have gotten the "First" prize.

>Speaking of Amens blood. When we win the fight, it will still be sealed in the eye, right? Or would it disperse through our body? ... Actually, could this be made as a question for Einrik?
>Not 'hey add this to Einrik's questions,' but actual structured questions that Armas himself could have asked.
"Einrik, do you know what will happen to my eye and the blood within when the battle is over and we have won? Will it stay in the eye or disperse through the body?"

>Well, if you win the fight the blood is then yours-and should the eye be unsealed, it would then disseminate through Armas' body.
Ah.
"But what happens if I suffer a huge blood-loss? When I lost the arm to Kazadora, along with my blood I lost that Russian Scientists blood too, invalidating her blood-oath.
Do I run into the risk of losing Amens blood too if something like that happens again?
And if so, how can I prevent it aside from obvious "do not suffer major blood-loss"?"


I am concerned about this because it is most certain that we will have Regeneration upgrade in the future, and having high regen would mean that we will take higher risks without much care and while losing blood might not be much problem for us anymore, it would not be god if we lost Amen's blood.
Consider the fact that Labombard has level 5 regen (right?) and he once jumped into a meat-grinder to kill one of his foes but survived after that. Pretty sure we would start doing shit like that if we get high regen.

Also, what do you mean by "if", didn't Og say that there was a pretty minimal chance of us losing the fight?

>IF Souls could not scar from spiritual wounds, your assertion would be perfect. However there's not really a practical way to make the benefits of such soul-based changes as you suggest worth the cost, in the form of making your soul a rigid, scar-riddled mass.
That's a shame.
...
When we get Sami powers, we would be able to pull the soul exchange trick without running into the risk of harming our soul, right?

>Sure. But you may have noticed I'm only taking actual questions to characters.
I remember that a the time when we were booking the trip to Finland (that was after the encounter with the Russians and Grigori), me and Grail (I think) had a pretty big list of questions we wanted to ask Amen. Since we had almost a whole day and several hours of the trip before shit hit the fan, there was more than enough time to answer them. If I go, search for them and re-post them here, will you answer them as if Amen answered them to us at that time?


"Einrik, I saw that you had some impressive regenerating capability during the battle with Stallon, so why don't you regenerate the wounds all over your body? Unless it is your personal choice to keep them of course."
>>
No. 42544 ID: 2f24a6

Something I don't want to clog the quest with: Why does no one seem to even remember the second god we sensed? The fact that he does not show himself openly worries me. Either the god belongs to a fourth group or he is in hiding to act as a kind of trump card.
>>
No. 42558 ID: 31e41d

>>352344
There is no second god. There is two power sources, One being Stallon, the other being the vessel/whatever that makes it possible for Stallon to manifest.
>>
No. 42575 ID: 3a045c

>>352358
Nothing to worry then. Thanks for explaining.
>>
No. 42581 ID: b1f0e2

>IF Souls could not scar from spiritual wounds, your assertion would be perfect. However there's not really a practical way to make the benefits of such soul-based changes as you suggest worth the cost, in the form of making your soul a rigid, scar-riddled mass.

What if we extend the healing from Waitiri to the point where the soul heals "soul scars"? Would such practice pay off then? (I am guessing it would)
>>
No. 42582 ID: b1f0e2

>And if so, how can I prevent it aside from obvious "do not suffer major blood-loss"?"
Keeping it in the eye seal, post victory.

>Questions for amen
We currently reestablished mental link with amen. So you might as well ask him questions... Except, some questions if asked of amen would result in our DEATH. So maybe those are better in quest.
>>
No. 42585 ID: 7b7b7f

Am I the only one that thinks that gambling for corpses is creepy as fuck and would leave a bad taste in everyones mouth?
>>
No. 42595 ID: 3a045c

>>352385
I agree but most people don't seem to mind.
>>
No. 42602 ID: 3fd4fb

>>352385
That's a big part of the reason I suggested phrasing it as "spoils of battle" or similar; a way which implies that we want to loot all the bodies instead of that we consider the bodies our loot. That's much less creepy.

>and would leave a bad taste in everyones mouth
Except Armas'. It would leave a sort of meaty, blood-flavored taste in his.
>>
No. 42640 ID: a1ad14

I'm just saying, that if we try and claim the man's corpse after the duel, no matter how we worded the bet, it's probably not going to go over well.

Monsters/animals are one thing, humans, another thing entirely. This isn't even a desperate situation like after the fight with the Neo-Nazi, this is just wrong.

In my opinion we should refrain from consuming humans unless in a life our death situation where we have no other choice.
>>
No. 42641 ID: b1f0e2

>>352402
>That's a big part of the reason I suggested phrasing it as "spoils of battle"
That is WORSE. Because then when we win and try to claim the corpses themselves they will go "WTF! You sick freak that wasn't part of the deal". Even if we convince them that it counts as spoils of battle it will leave a WORSE impression then gambling for them in the first place.

We also do not need to gamble for the corpses. we need only ONE SINGLE HEART from ANY of the corpses of EITHER tribes to get Sami bloodline, the differences between the laib and stallone shamans is due to their respective training in how to use an identical bloodline.

>In my opinion we should refrain from consuming humans unless in a life our death situation where we have no other choice.
Then we will never get any cool powers.

HOWEVER, we should keep it a secret and not go around advertising it. Although I should not that if we do demand the corpses there is no guarantee that we want to EAT them. We could easily sell them. (practitioner bloodline corpses are valuable thing to sell). We can use them for magics (well, not we personally), and we could feed them to our gun.
>>
No. 42643 ID: b1f0e2

So, it came up on IRC...
We should try to lure doonie into Amen's mansion and order amen to capture him and then butcher him for maximum returns (his regen slows down as he takes more damage, until he eats more people) and make sure to kill him before the due date of our contract with zosmas.
And extract all the poison into separate container.

So we could eat his untainted meat for maximum gains and have his poison for sale/use.
>>
No. 42646 ID: 3fd4fb

>>352440
>>352441
Obviously immediately starting to butcher and devour corpses in plain view would go over poorly, but that would be dumb and there's no reason to do it that way. I was thinking that we would insist that everything left on the field of battle is ours, and then just wait for them to leave before harvesting what we need off the bodies. The Laib Olmai guys have a mission and prisoners to worry about and as far as I know there's nothing important about this location; once things are done here they'll have no reason to stay and if we've claimed the spoils of battle will have no reason to even touch the bodies of their enemies. They never need to know what we're doing.

>we need only ONE SINGLE HEART from ANY of the corpses of EITHER tribes to get Sami bloodline
True. Although at this point if we wanted to cast aside our plans for a mixed bloodline in order to immediately become crazy shamanic with 5x Sami, that would be easily within our reach.

>we could feed them to our gun
While I do back feeding all kinds of crazy magical things to our gun, we need to talk with her on that topic, it seems. How can we justify rampant cannibalism to the lovely Silja- both hers and ours? She's terribly idealistic.

>In my opinion we should refrain from consuming humans unless in a life our death situation where we have no other choice.
In my opinion we should be eating the hearts of magical things whenever the opportunity presents itself, regardless of the nature of those magical things. Not that we should be killing people specifically to eat them, but hey, if they're dead already and their heart is filled with delicious magic...
>>
No. 42662 ID: a1ad14

>>352441
>>352446

>Armas: Everything left on the field is mine
>Shaman: Ok fine then let's just take our friend away so we may perform our burial rites
>Armas: No, Everything.
>Shaman: You sick fuck/You would deny us our burial rites? You bastard.

This is how it's gonna go down if you try that. It is highly unlikely that they will just leave the man there on the ground and never think of him again.

So unless one of their traditions involves leaving dead on the battlefield for the crows, it is highly unlikely that you will be able to just take this body without them knowing.

And really, when I said it would leave a bad taste in everyones mouth, I was including our allies.

>eat people
>acquire cool powers
Some things just should not be done.
I have no problem with eating monsters or fey or other non-human creatures to get the power he desires.

Besides, it has already been indicated that doing this stuff leaves a stain on our soul that marks us as a cannibal for anyone with the eyes to see it.
So yea, we are a walking billboard.

>sell corpses
This is a valid point and can be used for an excuse, but it still won't gain us any points with these guys.
For some reason, I would much rather learn from them than eating them to gain power and then fuddeling around with it until we find out how to do stuff or dealing with our valuable contacts so find out the same.

I think we are in a position to get more out of this meeting than a simple corpse that also allows us to stay off the dark path.
Just saying.
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No. 42671 ID: b1f0e2

>While I do back feeding all kinds of crazy magical things to our gun, we need to talk with her on that topic, it seems. How can we justify rampant cannibalism to the lovely Silja- both hers and ours? She's terribly idealistic.
I said we COULD, not that we SHOULD.
Basically if we claim the corpses anyone familiar with magic would not automatically assume we will eat them. That is just ONE of the possibilities.

However, claiming their corpses to begin with is gonna go over VERY poorly with them and may go poorly with the valkonens as well. Trying to TRICK them into giving up the corpses is going to go even WORSE. These aren't fae, these are humans.

PS. This serves as my official "I told you so" to all those who SUSTed me when I suggested we kill warriors of both sides during battle and steal their corpses into the NN using SM. And then explained to me how there are not going to be any problems at all whatsoever with armas just strolling around claiming hearts and corpses.

Anyways, the sami bloodline is of very limited use to us without training. The difference between the laib and the stallone (and those differences are vast) are pure training, they are both the same bloodline. We must then negotiate for training from them.
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No. 42698 ID: 8ac182

To be honest, this is merely a delaying exercise. If we don't get a pledge from them to teach us after the battle, then we should tell Einrik of their treachery, and see if we can persuade him to help us kill them all when he's done with Stallon.
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No. 42707 ID: 3fd4fb

>This is how it's gonna go down if you try that.
Nooo... how it would go down is that we loot the body and then either promise to bury him, which we would after cutting out his heart, or just let them have that one since we've got like fifteen others. If we're feeling particularly greedy, we could also feed the body to Silja, which would leave no corpse to bury and be less objectionable than eating it ourselves- that triggers a "holy shit" reflex rather than inspiring revulsion.

>And really, when I said it would leave a bad taste in everyones mouth, I was including our allies.
>may go poorly with the valkonens as well.
You know, I was pretty sure that the Valkonens were cool with the whole cannibalism thing. Hillevi has known that we have cannibal superpowers since about an hour after we met her, and Einrik seems remarkably ambivalent regarding most points of standard morality. Is there some reason I've missed to think that they would disapprove of Armas eating people?

>Anyways, the sami bloodline is of very limited use to us without training.
Point. At the moment, though, we're still bluffing that we're incredibly powerful magic warrior man and admitting that we don't know anything would weaken that image. My path to getting training would be to get generic favors and then cash those in for knowledge of how to use the Sami bloodline effectively. Since we won't actually get the Sami bloodline at all until after we find and kill another Einher and then use our question from that to learn how to make a mixed bloodline and then actually have that done, which will finally allow us to eat one of their hearts without setting our full bloodline, it would also be nice to be able to delay our training until we actually have the powers we need to be trained in. Getting favors would let us do that, since we could let the issue sit basically indefinitely as long as the favors are still owed. Not to mention that we could cash them in for something else if we learned shamanic tricks a different way.
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No. 42715 ID: b1f0e2

Ok, the way I am seeing it is that when we win the "spoils of battle" we DO NOT lay a hand on rastos corpse, let them take it for burial.
We will then excuse ourselves to go around discreetly collecting the stallone shamen' corpses and belonging.
If someone ever asks we gave them a proper burial, one fitting to an enemy that fell before us in battle.

@Valkonens: Good point, not only are they cool with cannibalism, they themselves claim the corpses of their enemies to build a mausoleum of bones.
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No. 42874 ID: 49c551

I think armas should put the list on hold and spend all day inside the eye helping the battle, along with assistance from einrik and hilevi, until it is defeated. Perhaps with the occasional break to catch up with the world once a day.
Things got really bad and we cannot afford to keep mucking about and making things worse. When the eye issue is resolved then we can resume with the list.
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No. 42889 ID: 9bb03b

>craft shards into scope for Silja
>supernatural Scoping
>never miss again.
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No. 42897 ID: b1f0e2

>>352689
a scope doesn't make it impossible for you to miss. It would have to be a wooden scope too, and I don't think we can actually make mods to silja at the moment. Some other gun, yes, silja no.

I think we should eat them with preperation to ensure not PERMANENT soul harm occurs from the process. Resistance to earth magic sounds good.