>>62436
I can get behind this, as well as it being a possible way to control our hero flaring stuff.

>>62436
Yeah, and then it turns out that tells her and everyone else that we're a Titan and gives her even more of a hold over us and we're ultrafucked. Even if that doesn't happen, it makes us even more dependent on a single variable.

Time is good. Moonlight is terribad.

>>62435
Eh, 'causality falls everyone unexists' isn't really my thing.*
Besides, being careless will get us killed off before we can get anywhere near enough power to mess around with that stuff.

*(Ok, Evangelion was entertaining, but one of those was enough.)


>>62436
Personally I am worried it would look like we were trying to steal her shtick. As we just saw with Wordsblood, divine beings can be kind of touchy about that.

>>62406
well in that case we should maybe ASK wordblood if he'd be likely to feud with a stories soul

Civilization
Desire
Will
Moonlight

>>62427
>>62428
I was only adding things to the list suggested AFTER i started making the list and Civilization*, and Light (as far as i can tell) has had ONE supporter since then... not counting you =p

But i'll add it anyway, for now, and I'll go back through again and see if I missed anything else.

*Civ made it to the list in part because I agreed with it, someone else agreed with it and it was brought up again, and partly because I have a vague memory that it won the last debate.

EDIT-through-deletion: Actually, looking back, Light's never really defined as an element. The original suggestion was 'light or shadow or moonlight or something' and it never really gets reinforced. Moonlight gets critiqued a bit but i think only one poster actually supported it =/

>>62440
Oh, the schtick-stealing point is a good one. Making it more neutral, like just Light, would work to avoid that. That would also align ourselves with both Luna AND the Sun!

Unfortunately I feel like that might hurt our TW generation while we're in the shadowlands.

>>62444
I don't actually want to align ourselves with the beings that slaughtered and/or enslaved their creators and then took their opium den as their own while leaving the world to rot. We'll have to deal with them at some point and killing them is impractical, but that doesn't mean shaping our very being (which is what making more souls is) into a form of flattery is a good idea.

>>62457
This fella raises a good point. Just because we don't actively want to be hostile with Luna and the Sun doesn't mean we should bend over backwards or tailor our very being to suit them.

Honestly, our best hope of dealing with them is a strong bartering position, and a track record they'll respect.

>Time is good. Moonlight is terribad.
Woot! Time finally got some support.

Right now I'm leaning will over civilization, but I'd switch back to voting time in a heartbeat if I thought for a moment it had a chance of winning. Time based powers are all kinds of abusable.

Desire or (moon)light just come with way too many potential downsides or complications.

>>62457
The creators are dicks. True Fact.

(The Incarna are also dicks.)

(The Exalted Host are also dicks.)

And, in any case, what I am seeing from the Moonlight/Light Element is that Saulanna gains power from herself. That is, the Feeder Soul is most powerful, all things being equal, when Saulanna flares her Totemic Anima Banner. Which is not quite ideal; we do, after all, prefer to remain hidden, if I do not misjudge our actions. If we are to create a Feeder of Moonlight/Light, that would nudge Saulanna toward an overwhelming/unrestrained/unsubtle aspect as her Soul incentives acting while flaring her Totemic Anima Banner (or, spending lots and lots of MP).

The Incarna have nothing to do with that (barring Luna, who made the Exaltation Saulanna holds and from which derives power).

>>465195
Nope. I use 2 wi-fi networks, but I never dupe suggestions.

>>62460
I also post infrequently enough that I think I messed up quoting the main quest thread.
>>/quest/465195

Jukashi!!WzMJSzZzWx 2012/10/22(Mon)11:16 No. 62462 ID: 5bf190
File 135092981477.gif - (70.57KB , 649x446 , facepalmcombo.gif )

>>62458
>I'd switch back to voting time in a heartbeat if I thought for a moment it had a chance of winning
>I'd switch [...] voting [...] if I thought [...] it had a chance of winning
>tactical voting

Methinks I might try an Instant-runoff system.

...there's non-tactical voting?

Forgive me, but a lifetime under time American political system has somewhat skewed my perspective. (You don't vote for what you want, you look at the only two people who have a prayer of winning and vote for the one you hate less!).

...not that I've reached anywhere near that level of cynicism here. There's a difference between "picking the better of two evils" and "respecting it when other suggesters aren't interested in your ideas" (even snarkily :p).

Some kind of formalized run off might be a good idea though. We've been bouncing ideas for elements around for weeks without really getting anywhere.

Civilization
Desire
Will
Light
Time

I'm not a fan of time - ignoring how abusable it is, how would a FEEDING deva feed off or spread time? Would it just be really efficient? Would it cause time to slow down/speed up around it?

>>62462
What's an instant-runoff system?

>>62464
OR we can keep coming up with new elements until we hit on one people really like

>>62458
Time is cool, but when choosing an element for a feeder soul it doesn't seem right to me. The question here is "What do we want to make Saulanna stronger, and which she will thus want to make stronger in turn?" Time... isn't really something we can establish positive feedback with, at least not in any simple way that I can see unless we start tearing up the rules of reality. I would be willing to support it for the element of a lord deva with a different purpose- we certainly have enough things that we could use souls for!- but not as our feeder soul.

Likewise, it's for this reason that I consider civilization such an excellent choice for the feeder soul- Saulanna can easily and actively either seek out or build up large centers of civilization, and by doing so build her own power and gain public relations points.

Will isn't a terrible choice by this metric, but it's not great either; as it's a quality that people possess Saulanna will have to work to shape the personalities and decisions of those around her into certain patterns in order to cultivate a supportive environment for herself. Maintaining them in a high-will state, particularly on a large scale, seems like a huge job because will isn't a characteristic that people naturally possess in large amounts. We'd have to basically change how people think and act in order to really cultivate a proper feeding ground.

>moonlight
You know what? If we want better control over our moon-powers, we shouldn't even be using the feeder-Deva for this. We should take our hero's soul, dump it full of titan's will, grant it sentience, and promote it from passive spirit-symbiote to a full on Deva. Bam.

>Time
The initial idea for this was that is would maximize any passive feeding / energy generation if we wanted to minimize getting titan's will from non-ing souls. So long as time passes, we have an energy source. In addition active consumption of time could be used offensively- say, consuming parts of the past the alter the present (like Balefire, say). Manipulation of time could be especially potent in the shadowlands (with the broken calender and all) or when used in conjunction with moon-based powers (if we can hack the time of day or lunar phase). Then of course there's normal time-based shenanigans, of course.

>>62466
I have no problem with us coming to a consensus. I just don't see it happening smoothy or easily- the field is too wide open, and we've got too many ideas.

>>62467

Feeding on/through the Element is a significant part of the choice, but it's not the only important aspect to it. You could come up with some interesting tricks with the right combinations. For example, a Feeding deva based on Time might (eventually) have the power to undo TW purchases and reclaim what was spent on them, which would otherwise be impossible. Things like that.

>>62465

Instant runoff voting is where you vote by listing your preferences. For example you could list "Desire 1, Will 2, Civilization 3"; then I count up all the first-preference and, whoops, Desire came in last place. So then I eliminate Desire, and your Desire-first vote will "run off" and be given to Will. I check who's in last place again, take them out, reassign the votes, and so on until there's only two contenders and we have a winner.

How about the element of Secrets?
Finding them, keeping them, detecting them--everyone has secrets, and many locations have them as well.

>>62472
That ability is really nice... being able to suddenly retroactively reallocate our resources would be an exceedingly potent tool. Although I remember reading somewhere that Luna has a trick very like that where she becomes/channels the abilities of one of the other moon gods that might have been but she devoured. If that's so, then with a Titanically-reinforced Moon Hero soul we might be able to do something of the kind already, though as we haven't devoured any other possible Saulannas perhaps not. Maybe if we ate another Titan...

The ability to use civilizations as nation-sized power generators calls to me, though. As does being able to spread and sculpt them as we choose, and being able to devour them should the situation call for it.

In addition, the concern that an Element which is alien to Saulanna's current mortal perspective will begin to alienate her from that perspective exists; the farther our Lord souls' elements are from the human condition the more alien Saulanna's overall mindset will inevitably become, at least as I understand it. Whatever element we choose will become a core part of who she is- I'd rather not go with anything too abstract and fundamental to reality until we've got another soul or two in place to help counterbalance how much alien perspectives influence our thinking. There must be a dozen things that we could key Time to if we want ridiculous hax out of it; it doesn't have to be this, even if stripping the Titan's Will out of our past uses of it (a dozen or so Soul Force down the line) would be crazy good.

>>62477
I'd still like to pair stealth/secrets/deception/etc. with a protector-purposed deva.

>time feeder
>Allow Ashenzari style TW reskilling
Yes please! Who doesn't want Red Mage and time powers at the same time? Ultimate versatility and flexibility.

>secrets
Another idea that got debated a while back (one of the first few suggested elements, I think). If I remember right, the consensus-ish was to wait for our next deva to craft one specifically to deal with divinations, concealment, and stuff like that.

Another argument I would like to put forwards in favor of Will is that IIRC Creation contains heaps of beings with self-control abilities that are damaged, subverted, or otherwise manipulated by various curses. A notable example of this would be the lunars and solars, who have a tendency to go out of control.
Gaining abilities to effect or eventually negate that sort of thing would go a long way towards both our ability to effect Creation and give groups like the solars and lunars a major reason to be interested in our survival.

>>62478
We already do have (potential for) the ability to gain power from the existence and size of nations, from the fact that nations need (and are in many ways built on) communication.

Civilization
Desire
Will
Light
Time

>>62482
True but Wordblood isn't a Feeding Deva, so it doesn't really matter.

>>62472
Are we voting yet?

>>62487
Pretty sure we're gonna wait until Wordblood asks about things like the purpose and element.

>>62487
I assume we'll wait till the quest actually gets to the deva creation. For now we're just brainstorming ideas and trying to win each other over.

Element: Raccoons.

Now, hear me out. Surely, Lunars have some kind of raccoon-manipulating charms. But what would happen if we doubled up on that? The ability to put a titanic tint on the power to create, disseminate, devour, and control raccoons, combined with our own natural raccoon talents, could allow us to reach Squirrel-Girlian plateaus of eminence.

It won't warp us all that much, since we're already so heavily tied to raccoons. And raccoon-based powers won't look all that out of the ordinary for a Lunar to sling around, which might be important when we're just getting started in making our way in the world.

oh my god, raccoon girl, that is freakishly brilliant.

Civilization
Desire
Will
Light
Time

>>62495
I don't wanna eat raccoons =( Couldn't we just stipulate that the feeder soul LOOKS like a raccoon? Wordblood did mention we'd be picking things besides the element, and i do remember bringing up a raccoon with horn-rimmed glasses... as a librarian, admittedly, but still!

What about a Feeder soul of Preservation? The act of protecting something from forces that would erode or damage it. Be it knowledge, wealth, peace, health, civilization, or delicious delicious jams. It's an activity basically every major player takes part in; preserving the status quo, if nothing else. Specifically in Saulanna's case, she has an interest in preserving her autonomy.

It's a soul that focuses on defense and is disposed towards resource management, which is ideal for us.

Plus, you know, jam. Everyone likes jam.

>>62507
Oh! How about a Feeder soul of Change? =D We already shapeshift, we intend to change the god's minds about titans, we could respec ourselves (for lack of a better phrase) more easily to make our various tasks easier (remember the clifface from thread 1? We could, for instance, up our agility if we came to a similar situation again) We could change how our TW gets spent (a la the Time deva) etc etc...

...Or we could save that one for a combat deva or something =/

>Raccoon (eating) Diva
Seems an absurd waste of potential, to me. And really, we could accomplish the same thing by uplifting our hero's soul.

Really, consider, what happens if we promote the passive exaltation Luna attached to us to a full on Deva? (Pretty much anything we could consider falling under the domain of the moon, combat, change, etc. could theoretically fall under this Deva's jurisdiction).

>preservation
Doesn't that go against our very nature? We're a new Titan, born in a way nothing else has been before- a strange hybrid of Exalt, Titan, and Human. By our very existence we change the world order. And the world is hardly in the best state of things as it is- our goal should not be to preserve the old ways, but to better the new. To say nothing of the fact that to be Lunar is to embrace change on a pretty fundamental level.

Making preservation core to our identity... almost sounds like castrating ourself to survive. I think it would bite us in the ass, long run.

>>62508
Whoops, I deleted that post.

For anyone wondering what we're rambling about, it was basically saying that just because many preserve the status quo, doesn't mean we would have to or that it would stifle our growth or adaptability. We could even enact drastic world-spanning changes without betraying the concept, so long as we preserved the world of old in history. Like Indiana Jones! Or Brainiac!

>>62509
There's nothing saying that we have to choose any one time, place, or thing over any other in what we preserve, or that we can't do so if we wish. Tossing away all that has come before to create anew is foolish anyway. There's some pretty cool stuff that exists, or has existed. Having an interest in keeping it around doesn't mean opposing the creation of anything new. And there's also nothing saying that we can't preserve the past in the form of histories and memories, rather than literally maintaining its unchanging existence forever.

Yes it does dispose ourselves away from change a bit, but that isn't too far off from the path we're taking anyway. The consensus seems to be against stirring things up, at least at this point.

But I see "Preservation" as more of a defense of specific things than a blanket rejection of change anyway.

>>62511
>brainiac, learns everything there is about a planet then BLOWS IT THE FUCK UP

yeah no..

the idea of somehow turning the exalt shard into a deva is interesting.

>>62512
Oh come one, I was obviously joking about the Brainiac thing. Jeeze.

>>62505
Eating raccoons to gain their power is just a natural part of the cycle. Raccoon Girl giveth and Raccoon Girl taketh away.

Besides, imagine titanic raccoon manipulation. Like, Raccoonbending. Riding on cresting waves of raccoons. Ascending on squeaking pillars of furry death, lashing our foes with long-range raccoon whips. Raising raccoon walls to stop the deadly flow of magma from an erupting volcano, saving the townspeople caught nearby. Breathing burning clouds of raccoons when our anger is aroused. So on.

>>62516
You. You're having too much fun. Stop that. This discussion is for ultra-serious, miserable squabbling only.

Raccoons are too ordinary.

I suggest one of the following in no particular order:

Water bears
Wolverines
Honey badgers
Ferrets
Axolotls

>>62516
>>62523

...Ya know what?

I still don't think it should be our Feeding Deva.

But that mental image is just too awesome+funny to NOT try for. So yeah, I'll put it on the list. (the guy who suggested it, one other guy and me - that's three)

Civilization
Desire
Light
Time
Raccoon
Will

... I still think that for this one we should go either Desire or Civilization.

>>62527
Water bears?

... Those microscopic things that can survive the vacuum of space?

...

Do we even know if those EXIST in exalted? Do we even know if Saulanna or Wordblood have any way of KNOWING what they are?!

wait, is there even SPACE in exaclted? could we be the titan to MAKE space?

>>62534
Shards of the Exalted Dream somewhat implies that Creation was an entire universe, with space, and galaxies, and planets, and stuff, prior to the Primordial War. However, all of the fucking doomsday weapons, and reality-warping clusterfucks, and various conceptually-destructive fuckeries, utilized by both the Primordials and the Chosen of the Gods, ended up eventually reducing all of reality to a single sad little world for the Exalted to crown themselves king of in the aftermath.

It's not canon, certainly. But it's implied, and I kinda like it.

>>62538
I DON'T LIKE IT.

Civilization
Desire
Light
Raccoon
Time
Will

Is it even POSSIBLE to uplift our hero's soul? =/ the impression I've gotten from what little I know of exalted suggests that the exaltation:

A) Is more like a computer than a person - ie, separating it from us would do nothing of consequence
B) Is a symbiote, and therefore MUST be attached to the soul of the exalted in order to both remain in the body and give the user power.

>Is it even POSSIBLE to uplift our hero's soul? =/
No idea! I think it's certainly interesting enough to consider, until Wordblood stops by to tell us we're being crazy again.

>Is more like a computer than a person - ie, separating it from us would do nothing of consequence
>Is a symbiote, and therefore MUST be attached to the soul of the exalted in order to both remain in the body and give the user power.
I don't see it as separating the hero's soul from us- I see it as more closely integrating it. And a self-aware superbeing attacked to our soul, powering us up, sounds more powerful and versatile than the seemily passive one we have now.

Of course, there are all kinds of risks. We could break our exaltation (no more moon powers!). Messing with it could alert Luna (although the sun didn't notice when solar souls were being hacked to make death heros). Or... our new lunar soul might be upset with the situation it finds itself in. (You made me part of a Titan?! I live to hunt you/us! WhathaveyoudoneWhathaveyoudoneWhathaveyoudone...).

>>62599
>(although the sun didn't notice when solar souls were being hacked to make death heros).

As far as we know. =p

I still think it's a bad idea. The Hero's soul is already a part of us - uplifting it would do little besides put us at even more risk than before, and possibly make it harder for us to use MP.

Really, we're too ignorant right now to make an accurate risk/reward assessment. And I would like to hear what Wordblood thought of the idea before trying it.

It's not an immediate concern though- we definitely want to create the feeder deva before anything else. Energy management and production is a big concern.

>>62598
>Is it even POSSIBLE to
Whenever you want to ask something like this, see Jukashi's comment at >>18218:
>But if Saulanna has enough Titan's Will, she can pretty much do... anything.
>If she has enough.

Things can be "impossible right now", "inefficient", "extremely difficult", or "incredibly stupid", but nothing is impossible for Saulanna in the absolute sense.

Mucking about with our hero soul in particular strikes me as something to worry about much, much later, though. Perhaps after we're no longer dependent upon it as the primary source of our power.

>>62603
I would like to point out that, when we asked Wordblood about the tattoos, his reply was "It... might be possible?" implying that it also might NOT be. Hence, there are some things BEYOND a titan's (or at least OUR) ability and since the Hero's soul was created by a titan specifically to FIGHT titans, then I'd say the idea that we CAN'T manipulate this thing at all is certainly possible.

Civilization
Desire
Light
Raccoon
Time
Will