I think if we do go for another Deva it should be one to hide our titanic nature. As a coherant being Saulanna is already at 9 SF. That's a huge amount and is probably detectable to anyone paying attention. Just look at the Dragon's Shadow. He we can hopefully strike a bargain with if need be. The gods on the other hand might wish us dead.

My thought was making a Deva with the purpose of stealth and the element of truth. The best lies are those with a grain of truth after all. And what is hiding but lying about where or what you are.

....

Maybe DS made a time deva, too? It would redefine him to a degree (which might help him escape true name oaths) and would help him manipulate the time in the underworld? In addition, there was a moment - however brief - where we had to put time back in motion for bringing the souls into us.

I just had a REALLY creepy thought: Just where did Peregrin get the data or whatever to start researching Titan/human fusing?
But a better question might be what he's going to offer us.
Peregrin said something about 'other heros' the dragon had... It might be more than just 'Solars/ Lunars/ Sidereals/ Dragons' he hired-He might give fixes to the Curse on hero soul, in exchange for binding them to him/ some sort of hidden 'tracker chip' that let's him keep an eye on the Hero Soul& possibly give him a back door to the hero...

Too nebulous to guess his plans, but I'm thinking we might want to consider more drastic action...
'If you're not in his way, he'll do you no harm...'
Gah, too much guesswork!
As for a soul to create-Let's table it. I feel like it's risky to start making souls haphazardly, giving how unpleasant unmaking them likly will be.

...I just realized that Kairosa is the Time Being.

Oh, by the way. I don't think we actually need a Light based Deva. Our Hero Soul, after all, is associated with the Moon. Therefore we should be able to get some powers that improve the lighting in here by boosting our Soul Force.

>>67807
Highly unlikely. Kairosa got all that stuff on the time-dragon because she was his successor. She could feel the universe trying to put her back in the spot he left empty, and not quite fitting. If there was another time-being in there, I think she'd have noticed it.

If anything, the thing inside us is likely to be associated with another of TDS's elements- deception, or darkness, or secrets (all elements that might support sneaking and spying). Or hell, maybe desire- if the intruder is providing the source of the emotions bottle (freedom from your desires?).

>deva deva deva
...I don't see why the intruder has to be a deva. Detaching a piece of your soul to go scouting seems a little much. I'd really think some kind of projection, or spirit, or avatar more likely.

>>67811
>...I don't see why the intruder has to be a deva. Detaching a piece of your soul to go scouting seems a little much.
It only seems a little much because in the human paradigm you only have one soul piece to work with. A Titan has hundreds of thousands of soul pieces and basically uses them for everything- the idea of sending some devas out scouting is no more unusual to it than the idea of sending a few soldiers out scouting would be to a country. When a Titan needs something done, it generally uses a deva to do it.

It certainly wouldn't send a Lord deva, and probably not even a Noble, but I'd consider a common deva a far more likely scenario than a projection or spirit.

Yeah, but a Deva's death changes the Titan! And while a commoner's death might have little effect, they're also relatively weak. Somehow projecting a noble or a lord would seem the better option to me- less risk to you, and the thing scouting is significantly stronger.

>>67811

>Highly unlikely. Kairosa got all that stuff on the time-dragon because she was his successor. She could feel the universe trying to put her back in the spot he left empty, and not quite fitting. If there was another time-being in there, I think she'd have noticed it.

... Eh, fair enough, i was thinking about that whole 'manipulates the time of the underworld' thing. Maybe a little too much. The fact we're currently in the underworld may still have something to do with getting through the time-lock, though.

>Detaching a piece of your soul to go scouting seems a little much. I'd really think some kind of projection, or spirit, or avatar more likely.

It doesn't have to be specifically MADE for the purposes of spying on us, it could've just been a very convenient choice. A commoner or noble Deva of the Dragon's stealth soul (don't kid yourself, he probably has one) would work plenty well to stay hidden from a baby titan, even inside it's own body.

It's not like there's any reason to pick anything else. A deva will be undoubtedly loyal, powerful enough to defend itself, and easy to slip in, especially if it's a deva specifically made for stealth or deception. It also may have a link directly to the king of DS, as opposed to say, Akatrina, who would have to relay information.

On our own Devas: I think we should grab a Seeing soul next, as opposed to a stealth soul. If something is inside of us, we need to find it and get rid of it - or at least make sure it won't do us harm.

This upgrade stuff is dragging on way too long. Can we wrap it up soon?

>>67822
Uh, from the looks of it, it IS wrapping up soon >.> we've got our final list and everybody's throwing down their votes on what to spend.

Also, upgrades hasn't been the subject of discussion for THAT long >.>

>>67822
Unfortunately, as Titan's Will can serve as both a primary resource to let us do basically anything and later as ammunition for our best tricks, I suspect that we will basically be debating how to spend it in one form or another right up until this quest ends.

>Level 1: Detect Will Points/Health Points (1tw)
>Level 2: Detect enemy attack/defense stats (2tw)
>Level 3: Detect Heart's Desire and possibly Malaffections (3tw)

Do these costs include the previous levels, or would Level 3 cost us 6TW all told?

>>/quest/495530
>Implying that the dragon's shadow is not a social manipulator
>also implying that a friggen TITAN would be weaker in social combat than a hero who serves him... a socially inclined hero admittedly, but still
>either that, or that the shadow would send something that COULDN'T socially fight us into the ground

Another question: how obvious would Save the Moment be if used in social combat?

>>67829
>also implying that a friggen TITAN would be weaker in social combat than a hero who serves him... a socially inclined hero admittedly, but still
The whole point of minions to have someone to delegate actions you are unable to do. Even Titans, I would think. Perhaps something in his nature prevents him from doing something, that his heroes could do...?

Well, in this situation, the objection is pointless: I highly doubt a being centered on lying is inept at social situations.

>>/quest/495463
DS's devas wouldn't look like DS. It seems more likely to me that it's an inner-world manifestation of some magical effect running off of Ophidian essence.

>>67817
>I think we should grab a Seeing soul next, as opposed to a stealth soul.
Is a stealth purposed soul of Awareness legitimate? Because that may well fill both roles for us. Like how Kairosa has all this fundamentally non-feeding stuff.

>>67831
>The whole point of minions to have someone to delegate actions you are unable to do.

UNABLE? Uh, no? The whole point of having minions is to get as much done as possible in as many places at once, and/or to overwhelm with sheer numbers.

And what does this have to do with anything you quoted?

>Well, in this situation, the objection is pointless: I highly doubt a being centered on lying is inept at social situations.

... That exactly what I just said. >.>

>>67834
...Except that the whole point of giving a soul a purpose is to ensure that they are awesome in that particular area by gearing their powers towards that purpose. Kairosa has many abilities that have nothing to do with her Feeding purpose, but her best and most effective deal in energy management and feeding. (As she says herself, she is that aspect of time that consumes) Everything else is just an afterthought (admittedly very COOL afterthoughts, but still). Making a stealth Deva with the awareness element could very easily create a deva that finds it impossible to reveal anything. Remember how Wordblood described stopping meaning as similar to strangling himself?

I mean, i like the concept of a stealth deva with awareness as an element, but you're proposing creating it to fulfill a primary goal OTHER than stealth.

Creating a Seeing soul would get a definite result (assuming anything we could do WOULD get results) and since we're creating it specifically so we can find something that's hiding, we'd pick something very conducive to seeing. (my brain is starting to succumb to sleepiness - this is probably much more incoherent than I think it is)

Didn't we largely settle on a Mask stealth deva, anyway? >.> Or at least agree that we need to talk to our current devas about it?

I have a lot to say about my votes, so I thought I'd make a post over here to say it.

First off: we've got a snake to catch. As far as I'm concerned, that's our #1 priority right now - a foreign body in our inner world is at best a spy and at worst a danger to our independence and agency, and it's probably only trapped here as long as time isn't flowing outside. Self-Awareness is our best chance of finding it, and will certainly help if it's more than just a spy.

As for dealing with the Headless Horseman back in reality, the main thing I noticed is that our offensive options are slim. We're not allowed to use magic to convince her of things, and in any case most of our options for new powers are tactical or defensive - geared around comprehension and information control.

Fortunately, we have a sworn servant who isn't bound by those restrictions and seems to have mojo on Akatrina's level. So let's embrace the role of the mastermind. Set it up so we can communicate under-the-table with Peregrine (Bond of Understanding), and then take the time to watch what discussions she's emotionally weak or strong on (World Reading 1), what she's aiming at with her arguments (Seeing the Tongue Slip), and what kind of arguments from Peregrine are most likely to give us an advantage at this stage in the discussion (Forked Path Oracle). Limit use of Moon Power to boosting our defensive stats (which should not be covered by our agreement).

Obviously, we can't neglect future growth either, and as has been demonstrated in the charts upthread, investment now pays dividends quickly. I suggest increasing Will Generation to level 3, earmarking the proceeds for increasing Saulanna's Soul Force (which, based on my budget's remaining TW, should be possible one day from now if we aren't forced to make any snap purchases).

So! In short, here's how I'd suggest we spend our TW:

[1 TW] Self-Awareness

Then, unless something goes wrong,

[1 TW] World Reading 1
[1 TW] Bond of Understanding
[1 TW] Seeing the Tongue Slip

[1 TW] Forked Path Oracle
[3 TW] Will Generation 3 -> [Earmark: Saulanna Soul Force 4]

with 2 TW remaining.

I'm in favor of spending a TW to locate the presence in here, and rewinding it after we know where and what it is.

Also, I like the idea of a Seeing soul of Darkness and a Stealth soul of Light.
Being able to see what is supposed to be hidden, and hiding in plain sight.

>>67836
We can't use HERO POWERS to manipulate her.

Anything that isn't a Moon power is fair game, and any defensive Moon powers are also acceptable.

Also if we are going to make a Stealth deva I'm still supporting Masks, since it was the only element we were getting any kind of consensus on, it's very appropriate in theme, and certain things we really need a deva to cover are clearly under the domain of Masks.

>>67827
It costs 6 to raise it from 0 to 3. Those costs are for each individual level.

>>67841
Well, okay, yeah. But:
1) we don't really have any titanic magic for convincing people of things, other than generic boost stuff, and
2) if we use titanic power around her it has to be in a non-obvious way, and in the past "boosts" by other parties have shown up in the social combat interface, which indicates that everyone knows when they get used (though not by how much). Using offensive powers she can detect when we've sworn not to use Lunar offensive powers would be a great way to tip her off that we have non-Lunar mojo (which is what we're trying to avoid, remember).

>>67839
Not to be an ass about it, but...

You know there are about a thousand other things we could use to hide in plain sight besides Light that aren't going to require the severe twisting that Light will, and aren't as likely to step on the toes of pretty much every active celestial god in creation?

Also, how would one see with darkness? Judging from how Kairosa describes herself ("the aspect of time that consumes") this would either mean you could hide from it by stepping into the light, that the soul could only see the darkness where it looked, or that darkness would spread wherever it looked. None of which seems very conducive to our current situation.

>>67836
It could be the sleepyness talking but i like this idea.

Also, flip on the lights! Go Lunar exaltation!!

>>67843
Sleep on it. If it still seems good in the morning, a vote of support in the quest thread would be quite appreciated :)

>>67839
We were EXPLICITLY WARNED that the shadow dragon is extremely territorial over the element of darkness/shadow!

You remember the shadow dragon, that badass dude who made sorcery exist and broke the celestial calendar to usurp control over the passage of time and only titan to ever escape imprisonment and transformed his wife into a major goddess twilight something who is now converting both solar and deathknight exalts into twilight exalts and single handedly saved creation by defeating the deathlords and altered reality to make soulsteel not work...

We were also warned that using the light element will likely upset the unconquered sun AND the dragon shadow... and actually using shadow will also upset the gods a lot making us unholy by divine law so... basically using either of those elements is a hostile act against BOTH the gods AND the shadow dragon.

Speaking of which, if it is him in the shadows looking at us attacking him with light rather then calling out to him for a parley seems unwise.

>>67844
Sorry mate, already used my posts =p

>>67850
I would just like to point out that we only know he broke the UNDERWORLD'S calendar - not neccessary the one for all creation

I'd say that's The Dragon's Shadow himself. He is "a being that is outside time" - at least in the Underworld and during night in Shadowylands, so our inner time isn't a barrier to him. He's also the source of Peregrin's ability to use shadows as a connection from one place to another. All he needed was a "beacon" to know where our inner world was, and he could reach it from his own inner world through the - dare I say - ultimate darkness that surrounds both. Akatrina's whole debate was a ruse - what she was after was to make any kind of oath just to locate our inner world.

So yes, the jig is up. Let's stop playing dumb and speak to our big brother.

>>/quest/495635
>>/quest/495661
>>/quest/495668
>>67850
>>67859

So on the topic of the interloper...

There's a big part of me that thinks the time to be polite ended the moment they showed up in our inner world without permission. Also, changing the environment of your own mind in a relatively simple way seems like it wouldn't be some huge affront - it's not like DS-based stuff dissolves under the light of a full moon (which is what we've got in here - not sunlight).

Also, I'm like 95% sure it's not the Dragon's Shadow himself, so much as some magical effect that uses his Essence, which is manifesting in a DS-like form because this is a foetal world-body and it'd make sense.

That said, if it is the Dragon's Shadow in person, we are potentially fucked no veto at this point no matter what we do - we have no chance of going up against a full-grown Titan in any kind of unambiguous confrontation. Our best hope for getting out of this situation is to make nice and hope he likes us.

>>/quest/495682
Taking Will Generation now means that if this stuff drags on for more than a day we can start adding abilities immediately. I favored Essence 4 because it's useful for both of our goals (extra HP in social combat, extra leeway for upgrades and industry in here), but it could just as easily be your favorite Social power from that list.

>>67854
I guess that's what I get for arriving late in a game where you can't change your votes.

Thankfully it seems like most of the key elements of my plan are included in other peoples' votes - the only part I'd like that people aren't voting for is Bond of Understanding, and we might be able to get by without it, depending on whether Seeing the Slipped Tongue is enough for Peregrin to indicate stuff to us without the other folks at the table knowing about it. I really don't want to rely on that because it feels like if someone is perceptive enough they might be able to notice it (as opposed to telepathy, which is pretty safe from snooping). Just saying that if we don't get it the plan might still work.

Hyuuu~We're a rabbit, dodging and ducking at every new thing.
I bet Saulanna's gonna turn into a stealth soul of some sort, based in hiding, by my guess...
We're constantly feeling too weak to engage things directly, too weak to do what we want-I'm betting Saulanna's going to end up a nervous, jumpy person- basically like how she was with the Lunars, but at ALL times, and always feeling 'out of her element'... I fear she might just want to run away from everything, run till no-one's chasing her...
Being a Titan? Means she can't trust Luna. Being in the Shadowlands, means being caught in the Dragon's machinations... And if she can't even trust her own world-body space's sanctity...I predict a mental meltdown, in 3, 2, 1....

>>67862
>Being a Titan? Means she can't trust Luna.
I thought we established repeatedly that this probably wasn't going to be a big deal?

>>67864
Nevermind, looks like we've gone back and forth about this a lot as things developed.

>>67864
We established that Luna wasn't /as likely/ to be hostile, and there is support for coming clean to Luna. But that there is NO problem has been rebuffed both by posters and our devas.

But that doesn't matter, he's pointing out that that was how we (and by extension Saulanna) have reacted to the situation, by everything from fear to tell Luna to outright refusal.

>>67862
This is ridiculous. The only hiding we've done since the beginning of the quest was running from Peregrin initially. And then we fought him, and won. Not telling Luna about being a Titan is just listening to our devas and has nothing to do with hiding. Noone is even trying to hide from the Dragon's Shadow, since apparently he is already in our internal world, or at least some portion of his essence. And the previous holders of our exaltation were all sneaky types according to Kairosa, which is not a bad thing, at all.

>>67835
>I mean, i like the concept of a stealth deva with awareness as an element, but you're proposing creating it to fulfill a primary goal OTHER than stealth.
Not necessarily. A stealth deva of awareness, if a valid element, should not only keep us from being seen/noticed/felt/divined but also let us know if something DOES notice us. It wouldn't scry around or anything a seeing soul proper could, but anything reactive or evasive along those lines can work. It's like having a Defensive purposed soul of a combative element, which wouldn't be geared towards offensive actions at all but could kick ass while tanking. Of course I could be wrong in the combination working at all but if it did that should be how. Perception as an element could also work as well for this, and have more social application maybe? It's a good angle to explore at any rate.

>Didn't we largely settle on a Mask stealth deva, anyway?
The idea was seen to have merit as well as style, but Jukashi himself implied it was a bad idea in irc. Not "primal" enough, I presume. I'm not sure what would be more basic along the same idea. Facade, Aspect, Semblance, Shroud, Veil?

>>67859
>big brother
No no no. We're a child titan, he is our UNCLE.

>>67862
I dunno about that, right now there are just too many fundamental unknowns and risks to consider. Once we know more about the world and get these meddlesome champions off our back we should be more proactive.

>I mean, i like the concept of a stealth deva with awareness as an element, but you're proposing creating it to fulfill a primary goal OTHER than stealth.
Not necessarily. It's like having a battle element of a defensive purpose, which while bad at offensive actionds can kick ass when tanking. Reactive, defensive. With Awareness as a stealth deva would not only prevent being noticed but be aware of who or what did see us and how. Probably.

>Didn't we largely settle on a Mask stealth deva, anyway?
Jukashi implied it as bad idea in irc, not primal enough probably. I'm not sure what would be better along the same lines though. Semblance, Shroud, Facade, Aspect, Guise?

>>67859
>big brother
No no no. We're a child titan, that makes him our Uncle.

>but you're proposing creating it to fulfill a primary goal OTHER than stealth.
Not necessarily. It wouldn't scry, just tell us if we,re being seen.

>Mask
Jukashi implied it as bad idea in irc, not primal enough probably. Maybe use Semblance, Shroud, Facade, Aspect, Guise?

>>67859
>big brother
No no no. We're a child titan, that makes him our Uncle.

>>67862
I believe its been strongly hinted at that our Element is Will and our Purpose hasn't manifested yet.

As for a stealth and a sight Deva I'm paticular fond of the idea that instead of Light and Dark we go with some other pairing that are oppisites that don't have such strong connections to already set paradigms like holy and unholy...

Something like Truth and Deception.

>>67862
I believe its been strongly hinted at that our Element is Will and our Purpose hasn't manifested yet.

As for a stealth and a sight Deva I'm paticular fond of the idea that instead of Light and Dark we go with some other pairing that are oppisites that don't have such strong connections to already set paradigms like holy and unholy...

Something like Truth and Deception.

>>67862
I believe its been strongly hinted at that our Element is Will and our Purpose hasn't manifested yet.

As for a stealth and a sight Deva I'm paticular fond of the idea that instead of Light and Dark we go with some other pairing that are oppisites that don't have such strong connections to already set paradigms like holy and unholy...

Something like Truth and Deception.

We need a new thread. This one is so big that kusaba can't update the HTML anymore - posts are getting lost.

you aren't kidding, 3100 posts is causing me ot get an out of memory error when I try to post.

On the tentacles - there are some around Saulanna, too - they're a bit easier to see since they go over the few gray areas in our inner world...

On the tentacles - there are some around Saulanna, too - they're a bit easier to see since they go over the few gray areas in our inner world...

...A bit off-topic: Any one else having trouble posting in Dis?

Hello! It's great to see that this story is still going on.

It's probably already been brought up before, but notice how the selection of slaver souls is going from "outright evil" to "only tangentially involved in slavery" to see how far Saulanna will go?

Seems like Saulanna's motivation so far has been to remain independent and not be manipulated. If she ever hangs out with the Lu -- uh, Moon Heroes, she could learn about a (massively hypocritical) project of theirs that's meant to help everyone become independent of Heroic meddling. Might be a worthy cause.

Hello! It's great to see that this story is still going on.

It's probably already been brought up before, but notice how the selection of slaver souls is going from "outright evil" to "only tangentially involved in slavery" to see how far Saulanna will go?

Seems like Saulanna's motivation so far has been to remain independent and not be manipulated. If she ever hangs out with the Lu -- uh, Moon Heroes, she could learn about a (massively hypocritical) project of theirs that's meant to help everyone become independent of Heroic meddling. Might be a worthy cause.

Anonymous 2013/02/25(Mon)00:33 No. 67939 ID: 52d91f
File 136178119174.jpg - (82.62KB , 600x500 , Tentacles1.jpg )

Welp.

Anonymous 2013/02/25(Mon)00:34 No. 67940 ID: 52d91f
File 136178128132.png - (44.04KB , 600x500 , Tentacles1.png )

Welp. I'm worried.

I don't think we can post images in this thready anymore.