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14807 No. 14807 ID: 35cea2

A new discussion thread for any of my works, since the old one is getting WAY too huge.
Expand all images
No. 14809 ID: f98e0b

It is a pretty OP, OP.
No. 14811 ID: e2aba8

so, how fast can we make nukes on rysix? oh the irony.

and we also need bro-bots, a couple dozen tanks with working gates and inties patrolling on risyx, or its orbit. shit we still dont have precise bombing.

btw im gettin the feeling we may be able to "salvage" the druids on "old monument".

and last, ed, what abbout workforce? will they work for us? can we buy land on their planet?

the op pic is indeed very missing a blue/orange gradient
No. 14812 ID: f82d85

I hope The End starts back up soon, as much as charts and graphs and numbers excite me.
No. 14814 ID: e2aba8

>NEURAL IMPLANTS: Allows implants to be placed directly in the central nervous system. These will increase learning speed and memory. Further research can allow them to do more.

so we can get implants to have the whole trainning?

GE IV here we go!
No. 14816 ID: 1ac39d

dude, the dryads at new monument found something and had a crisis of faith. 'salvaging' them would be the most dumbass thing you could do, considering that they are most likely closer to being on our side then the regular ones.
No. 14817 ID: e2aba8

well, we can get the research done with only 10. and if you think their lords will leave them alone you are quite wrong.

atheism is heresy there. they may start this war because there is now the risk we may turn dryads into atheists.

we should get diplomacy with them. there is now the possibility we can get a friendly dryad government to speak with, even if just to protect them.
No. 14818 ID: 1ac39d

then don't say 'salvage' that sounds like you are going to kill them.
No. 14819 ID: e2aba8

naw i just want to grant them political asylum and then alliance citizenship and then educate them to make them work for us.
No. 14820 ID: e2aba8

welli am considering they have means to take out the inties, maybe even the space vessels.

we should alos start arming irontown as well, its possible they may teleport there.
No. 14824 ID: bcf25c

I'm betting the dryads are in upheaval because of simple tools making life easier (thus irritating the peasantfolk, who can't use magic but happily take full advantage of the tech devices) and/or they discovered the history stuff that was dug up.
No. 14840 ID: e2aba8

by the setting description, every dryad can use some sort of magical spell.

i have been wondering, and its possible they are going trhu a renaiscance or maybe just learning that tech = magic in utility means
No. 14841 ID: 1ac39d

then this would be the first Renaissance since the beginning of the race. they have been stuck at medieval tech for who knows how long?
No. 14848 ID: d8111d

we have to prevent the equivalent of a spanish inquisition from setting in. i want to do diplomacy real bad, but we offered everything for the dryad and they refused it, even when we said we could cover the desert with terraplants.
No. 14849 ID: 1ac39d

well, the radicals may now be open to diplomacy. if the regular ones hate our guts then the radicals must at least hate us less.
No. 14853 ID: cda1dd

problem is, if we even talk to them we may be getting a huge bullzeye on them as well.
No. 14855 ID: bcf25c

There's not much that can really be done in this situation. Unless we decided to be complete jerks, do some espionage, figured out what was really causing the rebellion... and then spreading around the people/information.
No. 14941 ID: 23c8f1

Ed you should update Antisex Quest too.
No. 14979 ID: 45be60

...damnit, now I am stuck imagining how these two quests are going to cross-over. CURSE YOUR TITLE GRAPHIC!
No. 19628 ID: c1c607

Ha ha. Serves them right.

How much RP are Fusion Casters, by the way?
No. 19630 ID: aabc6d



No. 19723 ID: c00244

There was a lot of discussion in the previous thread about genetic engineering possibilities. Not to revive that long-running argument, but would it be possible to get people who are all-around better (in at least some of faster learning, more creative, better senses, stronger, better reflexes, etc.) and as the downside simply make them eat way more? I'm talking at least two, three times as much- the logic being that as long as they can keep their crazy metabolism fueled, they can perform at much higher specs than standard humans. Of course, if they don't eat way more then they starve to death in short order where anyone else would just grumble about being on half rations.

We'd need significantly better farming technology to shift over any large percentage of our population to this kind of design, but we probably could get at least a few boosted people this way.
No. 19726 ID: e5b19f
File 127898450953.png - (60.97KB , 400x400 , I SAD.png )

there is NO adhuman.

there is NO supertech.

its all realistic even exchanges. we cant enhace them without a equally horrible drawnback, plus producing costs and limitations.
No. 19729 ID: d78b61

he gave a draw back, cripplingly high metabolism. maybe once we unlock the secrets of magic we may be able to do something crazy. the druids are as strong as minor cyber enhanced people without any clear drawback because they are magic enhanced.
No. 19753 ID: a594b9

Hey, in regards to Commando training in The Icon, is there any way we can reduce fatalities? Also, can we give Commandos strength upgrades? :D
No. 19761 ID: 45968c

i belive the answers are no and yes, but implants by themselves have a fatality rate.
No. 19762 ID: 8bdb6a

>It's like blowing up your house to get at a rat.
Nah. It's more like setting someone's back yard on fire to kill a rat. Someone we don't like. Also, the rat is killing people that take four years to train and we only have twenty, whoops, seventeen of.

>Why insist on using fire, in an oxygen-rich atmosphere, on a vastly forested part of the world?
Jungles are really hard to set on fire. Sure, the parts we drop bombs on, and the immediate surroundings, will burn down, but it's unlikely to turn into a firestorm, due to all the moisture. Also, the fact that trees here are enormous. (Which is why I vote we use napalm in the first place. It splashes through cover.) Also, the commandos are probably miles from the village they were trying to visit.

I acknowledge that nuking the Dryads has cost us goodwill with the rebels, but given the Totus images they were drawing, they were probably calling for offworld help, so... too bad. Better safe and unpopular than very briefly sorry followed by death.

In my opinion, if we keep being scary, friendly towards the rebels, and arbitrarily powerful, responding to every setback with overwhelming force, they'll probably eventually decide they should ally with us. Also, if we genuine support a popular cause. That part's important.

Fighting Vietnam is only a doomed cause if you play the role of occupier. If we play the role of, say, Russia, it can work out quite well.

>Hey, in regards to Commando training in The Icon, is there any way we can reduce fatalities?
More genetic engineering. I'm more concerned with the four year(!) training time, myself.
>Also, can we give Commandos strength upgrades? :D
Yes, but there's a significant fatality rate. I was hoping to research better technology to give the commandos the high-level space marine upgrade without heavy casualties. But... now they're taking casualties for no benefit at all. Whoops!
No. 19764 ID: 95cf62

to be frank, i regret taking that suggestion. it all happened so fast, i would have surely devolved into a huge post about the use of nukes before saying to use it.

we can argue with the rebels. so far the actual good point of the nuke is that we actualy got only military units dead, we exausted diplomatic means before using it and we prevented our own civilian in ryx to face battle or worse.

>In my opinion, if we keep being scary, friendly towards the rebels, and arbitrarily powerful, responding to every setback with overwhelming force, they'll probably eventually decide they should ally with us. Also, if we genuine support a popular cause. That part's important.
id say we are half way from scaring them shitless to become their own side. we kinda need to rethink the use of the nuke and try to be reasonable with them. they have sensitive data that we can use to burn down JUST what we need instead of everything.

if we DO waste their planet, they wont ally with us. oh we should offer them that terraforming grass for the desert, im not sure they will like but it gives them a good idea that we can undo the damage done. also ask for them to keep samples of the forest for later regrowth.
No. 19765 ID: 8bdb6a

Unless we redirect an asteroid or something, we can't "waste their planet," even if we want to.

And, undo what damage? We just nuked lifeless desert. Well, lifeless other than the mages.

Clearly, if they don't want to ally with us, then allying with us would be a very unpopular move. So we just need to sit back, keep offering support if they want it, in whatever form they'd be willing to accept, and keep setting people who fuck with us on fire.
No. 19766 ID: 95cf62

>Unless we redirect an asteroid or something, we can't "waste their planet," even if we want to.
>And, undo what damage? We just nuked lifeless desert. Well, lifeless other than the mages.
we are about to show them the wonder of napalm on their forests. it wont go to a firestorm, but its unlikely many forests and animal life wont simply disapear.

also remember of their prophecy regarding us and magic. we may just make that happen accidentaly.
No. 19768 ID: 8bdb6a

>but its unlikely many forests and animal life wont simply disapear.
Some close air support is not going to destroy "many forests."

It might destroy "some trees," and maybe that will make the locals unhappy (because I guess twenty billion acres of forest just isn't enough) but that's just the cost of doing business.
No. 19795 ID: 5f20de

Respondin' a bit to events in the current main thread.


Firstly, trying to terrorize religious/ideological factions that are heavy on dogma/fanaticism (on their own turf to boot) into meekness has turned out to be somewhat ineffective in the past, hasn't it? Likely, such opposition will only stiffen necks and justify their actions to those who might be in doubt about them.

Secondly, have you heard the adage "The enemy of my enemy?"

Isn't there a danger that we'll, in making ourselves appear big and threatening and vengeful, end up making enemies of some (or even all) of THOSE as well?

I mean, do we, or don't we, want to make friends with the rebels? If we DO, then what measures should be taken to assure that we DO get on their good side? The nuke strike certainly put them aback a bit, if our recent contact was any indication. What would napalm bombing (and its possible fiery repercussions) do?

I'm worried that rather than having any effect, we're setting ourselves up for more of a bloodbath. By being seen to 'fulfill' the mystics' prophecy (remember the one? About shredding forests, murdering countless people and animals?), some rebels might become inclined to think that the nobles are correct about us and that we and our technology are wicked by nature...A notion we might want to disabuse them off lest they re-join forces with the nobles and mystics, yes?

We can try to use superior technology and threats to keep the Dryads in line, and perhaps it will succeed. Certainly judicious usage of force multipliers like orbital lances, nukes, carpet bombing and napalm bombs, and a proven willingness to use them, will increase the odds of it doing so. That said, I dare say such a grip on the Dryads will be weak. There's simply too much ground to cover. Magic will also be an equalizer. As I mentioned earlier, this strike force could have teleported in from elsewhere, and the village close by could truly be neutral.

Really. When we're barely past 14K people and the 'enemy' potentially number in the millions, saying you don't want to make friends is tantamount to saying you don't want to breathe.

You can try all you want, but unless you're willing to go to extreme lengths to meet that goal, you're gonna end up doing it anyway.

THIS is why I want to head off the napalm strikes, unless that turns out to be the #1 workable strategy. Even so, I'd still care how we treat the dryads and what impressions we give them of ourselves.
No. 19796 ID: 8395b8

agree. we want the rebels to understand that we are good people, even if vastly more powerful then them.
No. 19806 ID: e0ec6a

for them it does not matter if we destroyed a few trees or a whole forest in our defense.

we destroyed trees. this is in the end all they care to.
No. 19998 ID: 5f20de

>54af1f sez: "We shouldn't let them think they can get away with attacking us and walk away intact. Thus we should flatten them as they retreat."

1) But they didn't walk away intact. Their -reinforcements- walked away intact, when they -didn't- engage. This might be a lesson we want to let linger.

2) It is my opinion that if we ever want to be looked upon with something other than suspicion, hatred and distrust by the Dryad people (including rebels), then we have to apply carrot as well as stick. Too much stick and we leave an impression that may never wash off. Do we really want Totus to keep manipulating this people or can we teach them a way out of this non-evolutionary hole they're in?

3) Orbital bombardment could be a good ace up our sleeve... if they're not expecting it. If this is mainly a revenge action, then we shouldn't use it. Sure, losing four commandos stings, but that's as much our fault for being incautious as it is theirs. Or mine, if you'd prefer.

4) If you want a solid threat that we can bully the Dryads with, I think the suggestion that we can replicate the A-bomb attack pretty much anywhere on Grezt, if sufficiently pushed, should be enough.
No. 20003 ID: 54af1f

1: They're hostile. Just cause they're running doesn't mean they won't be hostile next time. Leaving them alive just leaves them to learn.

2: I'm all for Carrots if we can find them, but we're not talking about waterboarding prisoners or killing off a village here. These are warriors. Retreating, but still warriors.

3: This isn't really about revenge, its about destroying a bunch of guys who attacked us so they can't attack us again. Also, if they develop counters to air they'll really have a ready made counter to orbital too,

4: The idea is not really to bully them, it's just to kill any who attack us.

I guess I feel like some of you are coming at this wrong. We need to do this the Machiavelli way: We want to be feared, though not hated. We shouldn't be bombing towns or whatever, but any military unit that attacks us we should wipe out, even if they attempt to disengage.
No. 20004 ID: 8bdb6a

I endorse this post.

I'm not really seeing where other guys are coming from. It's a war. If people attack you, you kill them. You don't just spook them and hope they don't do it again.

The more of them we leave alive, the faster they'll learn how to better fight us.
No. 20007 ID: 50b0da

it's not about that it's about collateral damage. will the rebels want to join us if cause wanton destruction for the smallest slight? orbital bombardment would be good for when we join the rebels and they tell us where the loyalist main base is and just blow that up.
No. 20009 ID: 54af1f


As a way to think of it: Don't imagine you're the hero. Imagine you're the evil overlord. That's the closest I can come to our situation now. They're the scrappy rebels with magical powers and environmentalism, we're the evil aliens.

I don't necessarily mean we're evil evil (I'm not advocating us genociding them or anything) but in terms of situation we're most like an Evil Empire here, we have super weapons of various kinds, and troops who can beat all but the few plucky heroes (who we haven't met yet thankfully).

On every evil overlord list I know it says something about "Don't let your enemy run away" we should follow this advice.


Honestly, wanton destruction is the price we pay for our massive firepower advantage. We already napalmed them, I don't see a orbital strike adding too much of a problem.
No. 20011 ID: 8bdb6a

If we're going to enforce a "no destroying any trees at all" rule, then we're going to need to stop operating anywhere outside our desert island. Just gonna sit back and wait for them to attack us.
I'm completely serious. Sending light infantry into a planet-sized jungle filled with dangerous megafauna and hundreds of millions of hostile superhumans, with no armor, orbital, or air support is a death sentence. We'd save time and fuel by just executing our own troops.
No. 20012 ID: c2c011

That is some extremly simplified thinking. We're fighting an entire planet here. The rebellion is probably just a local occurence at this point, while the loyalists still control pretty much the entire land surface of the planet (except for our desert). There's not going to be some loyalist mainbase we can destroy. Even if we destroyed the 25 main cities in the loyalist hands we would just have made a small dent in their power. Because they control the entire freaking planet.

We're not going to win this by playing nice. We have to make sure that their warriors piss themselves at the mere thought of going within sight of us and that we have won every battle before it starts on the psychological plane. One way to do that is by being utterly ruthless and make every attack seem like an overpowering juggernaut that crushes anything and everything in its way.
No. 20023 ID: f77314

I'm all for killing them, but I don't think you're going to strike much fear into a bunch of religious fanatics.
No. 20024 ID: c2c011

Depends a bit on how strong believers they are and if they feel like they're accomplishing anything. If they know that any attack on us is certain death that will result in nothing beneficial for their side, then we can probably make a decent amount of them think twice.
No. 20028 ID: 8bdb6a

We can put fear into them unless they're so utterly brainwashed that no external stimuli will stay their hand.

And if they ARE that brainwashed, then that's not a very good reason to hold back.
No. 20031 ID: f0641c

A minor point on tactics: As I understand it, our commandos excel at offensive and covert operations, but are not really that much better than our other available infantry when it comes to defensive actions. In situations like the conflict that just finished, it's a waste to have our commandos acting as the primary combatant force. We should use other infantry for escorts, and just send one or two commandos in case they have need of someone sneaky.
No. 20036 ID: 3ee6a6

we need to think in foreign policies.

first, we should not peform genocide nor destroy (completely) natural resources. civilians should have a way to survive this mess, rebels or not.

second, backup armies are still armies. its not honorable to attack a fleeing enemy, but its also not honorable to flee from battle.

we should wound them, leaving wounded behind is a sure way to make them waste resources to get them alive.

we already did that. they retreated from a few men and almost no bombs left.

the idea behind commandos was that we had a very good way of keeping the convoy to a minimun, infrantry wise. i do admit we did a mistake because we lost commandos. we should make a small set of power infantry + anti armor options for the convoys.
No. 20037 ID: 5f20de


One hath tryed, and evidently failed. Couple of quick points, though.

-Potential carrot: Continue to prove we're not the wicked evil thingamajings, thirsting to shred trees, slay millions, kill magic itself, etc. that the dryad mystics predicted we would be, and are trying to make us to be.

-Why not just bomb them s'more with the Interceptors, if this is so important? Should be more accurate and less damaging, if anything.

>Machiavelli way.

Machiavelli also said it was better to be loved than feared.

Seriously, don't get me wrong. I get you guys' thinking, or at least I think I do. Annihilate enemy forces in order to make attacking an entirely hopeless prospect, gain fearsome reputation, and Brom's your uncle.

Though we do have fanatics and magic and aliens, oh my, which does make for a merry muddle of potential reactions and counter-tactics.


Might I suggest you read C.J. Cherryh's Foreigner series, Test?

We should still try to make friendly contact with willing dryads (if only because they can tell us what the heck is going on). Unfortunately, that is something that will become harder to do when the death count is racking up and we're being further demonized (and contributing to that demonizing ourselves).

We aren't even sure who we're fighting per se (it's clearly not 'everyone', since there apparently are both rebels and neutral factions) or why the mages decided to start pressing the issue after the commoners rebelled, or why the commoners DID rebel...


Our 'enemy' could be the magocracy, not necessarily the rank and file soldiery or Dryads.

Our 'war' with the Dryads started over our right to stay on this planet, as contested mainly by the mystics and mages.

>Orbital strike compared to napalm.

Destruction on a scale of magnitude up a level, particularly when talking about taking out an entire area.


Fie, Test. None of us ever suggested we should use our troops like that, and there are certainly better ways to deploy them if we have to use them as ground forces in a jungle war. BRIC support comes to mind.

Your advice regarding future away mission team troop dispositions and vehicles is noted, Test, and probably wise. Note that I'm not any happier about the commando losses than you are, presumably less so, because it's essentially my fault for suggesting it. That said, I will not let it discourage me from making suggestions and supporting ideas I think are good.

And just for posterity, I never specified a flight route of the commando teams. I just had the impression (unwarranted) that in order to get in touch with the rebels, we needed to inflitrate into some kind of rebel camp, or city under siege or something, but it seems the dropships simply took our guys thereabouts and around, making contact no problem.


See, I disagree.

We're not 'fighting an entire planet' per se (it probably helps we don't have any continent bases). If it really was THAT bad, I'd suggest we pull out of here and leave them to their devices. You're forgetting about the mentioned neutrals, and it's not like they're all that united. They have seperate kingdoms everywhere.
No. 20038 ID: 8bdb6a

Let's only send out Commandos if we have an actual job for them. If the dudes we send out find a need for a commando mission, we can send out Commandos in a helicopter. It only takes a few hours.

>civilians should have a way to survive this mess
Short of diverting an asteroid or something, we can't exterminate these guys even if we wanted to. It'd take thousands of nukes.

>we should make a small set of power infantry + anti armor options for the convoys.
Let's just use strength-enhanced infantry. They're just as mobile as regular ones and can carry heavier guns and armor.

On that note, let's make sure to enhance the clones we're making. They have a lower death rate that way.
No. 20041 ID: 8bdb6a

>-Potential carrot: Continue to prove we're not the wicked evil thingamajings
Carrot means a reward for them, not for us.

>Machiavelli also said it was better to be loved than feared.
No. That's not true. He said it's better to be feared than loved.

>Might I suggest you read C.J. Cherryh's Foreigner series, Test?
Dude, I'm not gonna read twelve fantasy books to help you prove a point.

>Destruction on a scale of magnitude up a level, particularly when talking about taking out an entire area.
It's just some trees. Orbital lances aren't nukes.

Anyhoo. It probably doesn't matter. The battle is 'resolved,' which means the next update will (probably) be three game months from now.
No. 20042 ID: 54af1f


Actually he said that it was safer to be feared than loved and you should be feared not hated. Hence no civilian villages.

As for why not use interceptors? Because it'll take longer to get them on station. An Orbital strike is so much more immediate.
No. 20043 ID: f7652d

in spite of Machiavelli saying that it is indeed better to be loved. why would someone betray those they love?
No. 20044 ID: f0641c

>Might I suggest you read C.J. Cherryh's Foreigner series, Test?
Finding those books online was a total bitch. Of course, that was some time ago, now... worth a read, although they can be frustrating at times. Watching the main character evolve into someone hyper-competent is entertaining, even if it takes like six books.

Anyway, guys. Do we know where another jump icon is, for the next time we need to flee? If not, we should look for it; if so, we should explore the other side. Since hostilities have broken out with at least some of the natives here, we have to assume that they'll be in contact with the other slave races somehow and report our presence. It might be paranoid, but I'd like to get started on an escape plan.
No. 20045 ID: 54af1f

Also, the big difference between us and the humans in foreigners is we have a potentially overwhelming military, not just technical edge.
No. 20046 ID: 54af1f


Maybe so, but we have no way to make the natives love us, but a very effective way to make them fear us.
No. 20047 ID: 8bdb6a

>why would someone betray those they love?
I'm glad you asked! Here is the full quote:

"Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails." -Machiavelli
No. 20049 ID: f7652d

....the fuck? i have no fucking clue what that means, it makes no sense. can you break it down into more understandable segments?
No. 20051 ID: f0641c

Sure. Anyone else, feel free to dispute my rephrasing.

If you want to know if it's better to be feared then loved, here's the answer.

(Obviously you want both, but that's kind of hard.)

The important thing to remember is that people are fickle; they love winners and hate losers.

If they love you, then they'll be willing to abandon you when you're down and need their help.

If they fear you, then even when you're in trouble, they won't be willing to betray you because they'll know that you'll remember and take vengeance.

-Machiavelli as rephrased by me.

That work for you?
No. 20054 ID: f7652d

i would like to bring in the episode of avatar 'the boiling rock'. where mai betrayed azula because she loved zuko more then she feared azula.
a mother would not abandon her child no matter what, would face death before that. obviously Machiavelli only saw superficial love, not true love.
No. 20057 ID: f4963f

I'd like to bring up an episode of DBZ where Goku punched through a planet after screaming for three episodes.
No. 20058 ID: f0641c

I have not seen that show, but it sounds like a classic case of insufficiently applied fear to me.

In the situation you posit, what is our objective? The easy way to make such a mother work for you is to ensure that if she doesn't, her child suffers. The easy way to get her not to object to your taking the child away is to display greater power than she has and establish the child's death as the only other available option. Machiavelli knew what the hell he was talking about.

I'm not saying that the full Machiavellian route is the right one for us to take in-game here, but saying that the guy's arguments are based upon flawed premises will take a lot more backup than a cartoon and a romanticized statement. Machiavelli's advice does not lead to being a nice guy, but it does lead to being an effective one. The real problem for our implementing it is that we're in a position far removed from what it was meant for.
No. 20060 ID: 8bdb6a

Don't be ridiculous. How do you propose to make the natives love us as a mother loves their child?

You cannot.

Political leaders, no matter how skilled, beneficent, or successful, do not command that type of loyalty from the general populace.

Also, that was just a cartoon. Machiavelli uses evidence from history. Again, of political leaders, not of inapplicable relationships.

"Among the wonderful deeds of Hannibal this one is enumerated: that having led an enormous army, composed of many various races of men, to fight in foreign lands, no dissensions arose either among them or against the prince, whether in his bad or in his good fortune. This arose from nothing else than his inhuman cruelty, which, with his boundless valour, made him revered and terrible in the sight of his soldiers, but without that cruelty, his other virtues were not sufficient to produce this effect. And shortsighted writers admire his deeds from one point of view and from another condemn the principal cause of them. That it is true his other virtues would not have been sufficient for him may be proved by the case of Scipio, that most excellent man, not of his own times but within the memory of man, against whom, nevertheless, his army rebelled in Spain; this arose from nothing but his too great forbearance, which gave his soldiers more licence than is consistent with military discipline. For this he was upbraided in the Senate by Fabius Maximus, and called the corrupter of the Roman soldiery." -Machiavelli

http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince17.htm Here's the whole chapter. It's really short!
No. 20061 ID: 3ee6a6

>Short of diverting an asteroid or something, we can't exterminate these guys even if we wanted to. It'd take thousands of nukes
jesus, its not like that. if they hide in urban enviroment of course we will have a hard time facing them, but we should allow a nation to come forth and say "we want nothing of this mess" in order to claim neutrality.

in fact someone raised a good point. if we kill the rulers its possible we could get a revolution in the country going, plus, some of these countries already hate each other. we can try yo play that as well.

>Let's just use strength-enhanced infantry
how are they called? °3°

>>Potential carrot: Continue to prove we're not the wicked evil thingamajings
>Carrot means a reward for them, not for us.
assuming we somehow can make it work even tho we nuked them and now started napalming some of their forests, it should be a even exchange, even if it is a very long term exchange.

>Orbital lances aren't nukes.
and they arent reusable! each strike wears the guns, i dont wanna discover that we cant use them later on because we abused them now.

they "fear" the nuke, lets keep playing them with bombs.

people arent virtuous enought to sustain the love. they betray who they love because eventually it pays off.

if they fear, they obey and stay in line because they fear punishment. this is somewhat feminist, as it assumes there will be no uprising.

quite frankly, this matter is irrelevant. what we immediately need is a somewhat sustainable neutrality from the planet's main race to us in order to bookworm against psycholord, with or without their help. if they fear us, small uprisings will always happen and we may not get part of their government to join us (well, id like to discuss this part althogether later on) plus if we become weakened, its possible they could set the last nail on the coffing.

if we are to play this right, some druid should hate psycholord enought to join us for a possible uprising against him. i know we may succeed with the lower class, wich is why it could be a good idea to murder the ruler class.
No. 20062 ID: f7652d

well then we should be feared and loved. fear us as enemies and love us as allies. going against us will be insane and joining us would be so glorious.
No. 20063 ID: 8bdb6a

>and they arent reusable! each strike wears the guns
That was only a concern early in the quest, because we didn't have any superconductors to repair them with. Now we have lots. In fact, we built three entirely new ships armed with rail lances!
No. 20064 ID: 3ee6a6

id like to point out every god dammed MMO guild/clan that had a uprising in their guild ranks because their underlings were under apreciated, and that this is a quest made by only one dude that got inspired in a reclusive anonimous board in the interbutts. seriously, this is not srs bnsns.

more specifically, BoB lost 8 trillion isk and a bit more in ships to a director that felt "unloved" by his peers, thats about 24k bucks in game money and over 8 years of hard work. i am a experienced MMO player and have quite a lot of tales involving backstabbing and betrayal in and out of guild.

being a dick pays, being feared pays, being trusted pays, being honest pays, being rewardful pays, being greedy pays, being prepared pays, being violent pays.

any sucess on archieving a goal is dictated by your skill in using any means you choosed and the situation you are facing.
No. 20065 ID: 3ee6a6

so there is no actual downtime needed to peform the repair?

that sounds psychotic. pity the orb isnt there, it would be tottaly in character.

also take note that being feared may cause separatists inside the splinter.
No. 20066 ID: f0641c

Speaking of building new ships... can we research larger ship designs? If we could create a ship which can contain a large building, it would be a huge step toward freeing our populace from this settle-then-migrate existence. I'd really like to eventually move to an entirely nomadic society, with all the buildings that we really need installed in our starships.
No. 20071 ID: f7652d

let's get a ship that can contain MASSIVE buildings in them. best bet would be to take the building, armor it and slap thrusters to the back.
No. 20072 ID: 3ee6a6

we are making the equivalent of destroyers and cruisers. we have the tecnology to make battleships and carriers, but it takes too long to produce one. about 5 years i think?
No. 20074 ID: 8bdb6a

>also take note that being feared may cause separatists inside the splinter.
Says you! The general populace hated the Dryads before we found out they were allied with the guys who blew up Earth.
If word's gotten out about that, they're probably baying for blood.
No. 20076 ID: f7652d

advanced nano-construction would be great. and in space it wouldn't result in gray goo. just get all the material needed into a blob and then hose it down with nanobots. they transform it into what we said and viola, ship.
No. 20077 ID: 8bdb6a

Well that seems simple all we need to do is invent magical nanites that can do anything.
No. 20078 ID: f7652d

well we are researching magic now :awesome:
No. 20079 ID: 8bdb6a

No. 20080 ID: f0641c

Can we haul partially constructed ships along with us when we relocate, or do we have to live in the same spot for more than five years to get one built?

Regardless, perhaps the answer to this is simply to hyperfocus ourselves in construction if we've gotten the design researched at the next stop, and pour everything into getting as many space construction points as possible, as quickly as possible. But depending upon the number of build points involved, even that may be infeasible.
No. 20082 ID: f7652d

i suggested we work from the engine block forwards, and have a quick link bridge so that if anything shows up it can drive the completed part, it may not be able to do it's real job but i will move.
No. 20087 ID: 3ee6a6

first, take note at >>329526

from last thread, we cant make mecha, any extra huge ship we do make would have humongous build needs and we problaby cannot make it mobile unless the factory by itself is mobile.
No. 20089 ID: 984a05

irc conversation
(12:45:32 AM) starburst98: ed, i got an idea.
(12:45:56 AM) starburst98: in the icon we build the battleship and carrier from the engine foreward
(12:46:25 AM) starburst98: we also have a small bridge that can latch on to completed segment and drive it
(12:46:53 AM) starburst98: thus removing the constant fear that we will get nearly done and be forced to abandon
(1:06:07 AM) Ed_Pastry: Oh right I didn't notice your message. Yeah, sure I guess that's alright
(1:06:15 AM) starburst98: cool
No. 20102 ID: 54af1f

Just on a different topic: how are we gonna deal with the capitalist aliens? And let's explore the surrounding systems.
No. 20103 ID: 54af1f


Azula was feared but also became hated.
No. 20112 ID: 61faa9


Did you seriously just rebut Machiavelli by appealing to an episode of Avatar?

Hey guys we should turn around and just take the Breakers head on, I know Sun Tzu and Clausewitz and Rommel and all that lot say it's a bad idea to rush right into the teeth of overwhelming force but in episode 9 of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann...
No. 20120 ID: a229b2

they are both forms of entertenaiment. and there are reasons why TTGL did what they did, its called plot device.

wich we have none yet, save for a few nukes, a couple of orbital lances, dozens of UAVs and a few interceptors.

im sure if machiaveli had a machine powered by willpower he would be a anti spiral anyway.
No. 20123 ID: a229b2

derp. by both i mean ovatar and the icon.

let us remember this is a quest, not srs bsns.
No. 20177 ID: 8bdb6a

Did researching Breaker Alloys automatically increase the durability of all our military units? Or only ones we build from now on? Or do we need to research new tanks and suits of armor? Or are they not really that durable, just able to do weird things with energy?
No. 20179 ID: 54af1f

Not sure if to post this here or in the game thread but could we train some infantry into like, Recon troops? Not as highly trained as commandos, but capable of working in the kind of terrain we're faced with here and collecting us Intell?
No. 20181 ID: 35cea2


Breaker alloys does not upgrade our current units. It's more of a side-grade; Breaker alloys are lighter and more malleable but are less resistant to kinetic damage like explosions and bullets. Due to the large changes in design needed to accommodate the materials' differences, vehicles made with Breaker alloys cannot be made with Human materials (and vice versa).
No. 20184 ID: 8bdb6a

How many SCs do breaker weapons tend to use? A vague, ballpark estimate would really help. I don't know if we're looking at ten units to run an army for a month of high-intensity combat, or one SC per man per day, or what.

Just as importantly, is there a satisfying increase in firepower?
No. 20287 ID: 35cea2


If we are talking a few days of straight action, Breaker weapons will likely use up half again their cost in SC.

The firepower is greater than that of human weapons. The seeker weapons in particular are noticeably better at homing in on weak spots a target than Human missiles.
No. 20290 ID: a594b9

Sweet. We'll make a lot of them, then.
No. 20298 ID: 8bdb6a

Something like 2-4 SC per day of fighting per tank is pretty steep. We definitely can't upgrade the whole army like that.

That said, some tanks and gunships rigged up like that would be great. And some infantry weapons scattered around.
No. 20301 ID: 05b898

agree, defending against 2 totally different weapons at the same time is really fucking hard. so a mash up of breaker and human guns would be hard to counter.
No. 20303 ID: 69beeb

how could a breaker orbital lance work?
No. 20322 ID: 8bdb6a

I really don't think we should split our army up to tackle these portal areas. It violates rather heavily the principle of concentration of force.

We should try air and orbital bombardment alone, at first. If that doesn't work, it would make more sense to do airmobile attacks in sequence, not all at the same time. Even then, I would prefer we hit the anomaly instead. If you guys are serious about destroying magic, that'd be where we'd start. I worry that it would take away the super-strength of the locals, leaving them walking meat for the wildlife.
No. 20333 ID: 8bdb6a

Also, in the somewhat more long term, we should start giving people science books and kits to help bootstrap a technical civilization.
No. 20342 ID: e3ff7f

not yet. the gesters accepted our farm books because they were mostly okay with us. some grumbled about us being around but none were outright hostile.
No. 20343 ID: 8bdb6a

I bet a nonzero number of Dryads will go for it, though. The rebels found SOMEthing in the ruins that made them rebel.
No. 20344 ID: e3ff7f

indeed. once we find out what it is then we can move in.

watch it be the peasants were controlled by pheromones like the Tau. someone touched a computer thingy and the control over him broke and he passed it to the next guy.
No. 20345 ID: 54af1f

Say Ed.

Are their any bits of breaker biology that are better than humans?
No. 20346 ID: 43098e

know how on how to care for wildlife and make it work for you without magic sounds a magnifcent peaceful way to make amends. we should give those at least.

later on we could teach them geology and basic chemistry. if they take interest, we got uselves a ally.

harassing the portals is mostly a problem because the portals are "mobile". i do agree with orbital strikes on them, but using land units can become too troubleful to maintain the tactic.

i would like to "capture" a small portal to capture whatever unit comes trhu. now that we can break shields with breaker weapons, we should be able to get more tech my stealing it.

cant we send commando or drones to figure that out? maybe even some diplomats.
No. 20347 ID: 43098e

pants-astic. i lost my trip somehow.
No. 20350 ID: 35cea2

It wouldn't

They're not better so much as different. Their brains are smaller but compensate by sacrificing creativity and complex emotions, as well as a sense of smell. They're about as strong but a bit more agile, though their wiry physique makes them not as resistant to physical shock as humans. Also they are carnivorous.
No. 20356 ID: e3ff7f

low creativity and emotions? sounds perfect for a slave race.
No. 20391 ID: 8bdb6a

With Genetic Engineering IV, I'm tempted to bother Ed about all sorts of crazy monster designs, because we didn't name that colony Ryxix for nothing, damn it!

...but, given our current situation, I think we should spend 45 RP researching a huge ballistic moon cannon, instead. This cost was confirmed in the last discussion thread. Thoughts?
No. 20432 ID: c2c011

I'm all for Moon cannons. Huge railguns is one of my favorites. Placing them on the moon to blow the shit out of a planet is even more a favorite of mine. I say go fucking go on the moon cannon project.
No. 20438 ID: 8bdb6a

With GEIV, we can finally start mass upgrading troops with MinStr enhancement, which should greatly increase their capabilities. Shame that this mess had to ramp up in the same month. Still, we should consider at least a few months of upgrades before launching our Anomaly assault. We can, with current capabilities, augment 200 guys per month. Improving that capability will take more Medical Districts, though, which take 4 months to build.
No. 20439 ID: c2c011

We should probably get the assault under way before then and see if we can't cut off their connection to magic. That should make things immensly easier for us.
No. 20440 ID: c00244

We'd still end up killing a lot of our troops, even with reduced casualties. Would having minor augmentations boost them enough to avoid losing more troops than we'd lose on the operating table?

I'm not sure, but I lean towards no. The majority of our combat depends upon vehicles and artillery strikes rather than our infantry's physical capabilities to bring us victory. Let's hold out for GEV and it's casualty-free boosts before hitting everyone with cybernetics.
No. 20441 ID: 8bdb6a

GE-V is going to be a massive undertaking. 405 RP and requiring a specialized structure just to begin the research. It's probably years away.

And yes, my opinion is that having a body of infantry with greater strength, mobility, firepower, and survivability (they get armor plating!) will offset the 5% death rate they'll accrue in the process.

We could upgrade 600 over three months, lose 30 guys (not really a lot) and have a core of really tough hombres for pitched jungle fights.
No. 20443 ID: 704c97

what about those 28 major implant guys we vat grew?
No. 20446 ID: 8bdb6a

I was going to send them right into commando training, but it depends on if they're all qualified. That whole "only one in 200 are qualified" is tricky. Does being grown in a tank for the purpose of being a commando give you a leg up? I don't know.

If not, then they get to be light infantry. Making them vehicle crews, or even power-infantry, (due to duplication of abilities) is kind of a waste.
No. 20448 ID: 687f68

what about new ULTRA- power infantry? like Spartans, they have a ton of bio implants that make them super strong, and the power assist in the suits is so powerful that it would rip a normal human apart.
No. 20456 ID: 510446

see >>329526

altho a human-BRIC hybrid could rock.
No. 20463 ID: 84ec40

yes i see. but our major implant teach makes someone ungodly powerful compared to a normal human and the only risk is death, which after the next lvl of Genetic Engineering is gone.
No. 20481 ID: 8bdb6a

MaxStr cybernetics already turn people into Spartans: Super-strong, extremely durable guys with incredible endurance.

>...and the power assist in the suits is so powerful that it would rip a normal human apart.
That's called having a shitty power-assist system designed by stupid assholes.
No. 20483 ID: 545839

i read the thing about it. simply, the tech for the power assist could not be tuned down and it overcompensated. so an arm would whip all the way around and snap. it could ether barely assist or assist WAY too much. anywhere in between just refused to work. it was made out of some kind of space crystals though, so it was kinda soft sci-fi.

anyway. power assist for people with reinforced skeletons could be much better then people without as they could take more inertial stress and stuff.
No. 20484 ID: 8bdb6a

>the tech for the power assist could not be tuned down and it overcompensated.
Well, that's extremely stupid. No offense.

>...could take more inertial stress and stuff.
Well. At that point we're basically looking at car-crash-level acceleration stress. Like... a hundred gees, off the top of my head.

Besides. At that point, the suit is providing all the motion and the limbs are just along for the ride, so to speak. It would then probably be better to grow clones with no limbs and attach purely robotic limbs, like in Defective.
No. 20485 ID: e480be

i suppose. could also make them double layer deadly. they wear the BRIC suit, and if it breaks they are STILL dangerous.
No. 20487 ID: 8bdb6a

That seems really pointless when we can just make them infantry and give them a big gun, and have someone else drive the BRIC.
No. 20492 ID: 7cbda6

it would be like gurren lagann, a large robot with a smaller robot inside of it. they would never see it coming.
No. 20539 ID: 48730f

my original idea for a "superhuman" would be a human with enhaced reflexes specialized for crew duty. if we could cyberimplant them to compensate for physical weakness it would be a extra, but unecessary.

think in a enhaced reflex, physically weak human whose sole purpose is manning vehicles.
No. 20540 ID: 8846ea

'sole purpose' things are not good. cause then during times of peace they can't fit into normal society at all.
No. 20541 ID: 48730f

that already had a huge no.

and we are not doing any TH. if we get a "better human" we will have arianism, if we make subhumans we will have slavery, if we make even exchanges humans we will have social repression/castes.
No. 21285 ID: f835c3

okay what tech should we get next?
the heatshell looks great, and that thing it combos with breaker alloys sounds boss.
No. 21310 ID: 54af1f

I'm gonna suggest we research some units.

Specifically the Moon Gun and also something like a tactical bomber: an aircraft about the price of an interceptor but slightly slower, capable of carrying 8-10 pieces of air to ground ordinance.
No. 21316 ID: 54af1f

Plan: take over the Anomaly

So I was thinking about this, and maybe we should try to be a bit clever.

First off: Lets assess our assets. What do we have, what can we lift to the anomaly?

We also have 12 dropships and can build 1 more this month, giving us a total of 13 dropships (unlucky for some. The enemy I hope) and 38 Gunships (152 more infantry).

Fire support wise we have 38 gunships, 5 bombers (and can build one more), 50 interceptors and eight Test Patterns. We also have 15 cruise missiles and can, based on what we saw in the portal strike lance 10 targets before the guns fall off.

I suggest we employ just about everything we have because this strikes me as a boss fight. First we need to destroy the last remaining portal. This will expend 1 orbital lance strike this month, though we can repair the guns if we launch next time.

We load all our 13 dropships fully:
6 tanks 2
2 MRLS 2
18 BRICs (each with MMRA load outs, unless we want to get fancy and put fusion casters or whatever on them)
86 Light infantry (Strength Augmented)
364 Power Suit Infantry
Meantime we load 152 strength augmented light infantry into our 38 gunships.

The plan would be a two pronged assault on the Anomaly. As a precursor, all five enemy Dryad camps around the Anomaly would be lanced, leaving us 5 units of lance fire for the main assault. This should be done as assault units begin their approach for maximum surprise.

The gunships will approach from the South West, the Drop Ships from orbit. The dropships will be escorted by 12 interceptors and 4 bombers, the gunships by 2 bombers and 24 interceptors. The eight Test Patterns will approach at high altitude and prove target data and point strikes if necessary, remaining 14 interceptors will act as a ready reserve.

The Bombers with the Dropship Group (Group A) will use Carpet Bombs or FAE to blast new landing zones in the jungle for the rest to land and secure the area. The drop ships will immediately return to base and load up with a second force of 26 APCs to allow rapid movement.

Meantime the Gunship force (Group B) will approach from the South West (that looks like the shortest way in to me). 8 tactical missiles, 2 units of Lance fire and their bomber and interceptor escort will be used to clear a path for them right up to the Anomaly. They will fast rope in near but not right on top of it, and then launch a combined ground/air assault to seize the place, supported by the MRLS from Group A.

Group A will move to support group B, either pushing straight in or waiting for the APCs depending on the distances and how much resistance they encounter. If they encounter really heavy resistance then the second lift should be changed for more infantry and BRICs.

Thoughts? I think that's about as far as we can go planning wise right now.
No. 21319 ID: 8bdb6a

If the orbital lances are accurate enough to do that, then this sounds pretty solid. I'd do the attack differently, though. My idea would be, like...

1) Bombardment. Heavy bomber strikes and/or orbital lances to inflict as many casualties as possible on the enemy camps before they know what's going on, and also to clear landing zones. Interceptors arrive to provide continuing air support. UCAVs start orbiting outside of enemy spell range. Bombers can carry 20 regular bombs in addition to their big payload (or can they?) so hopefully they can also stay on station to drop JDAMs.

2) Before the shrapnel's finished flying, gunships arrive, suppress surviving enemies in the LZ, and deploy the 150 cyborgs via fastroping. The troops spread out to begin securing a perimeter.

3) Before the enemy can react meaningfully, dropships arrive. They land and deploy the main body of troops as you describe, organize, and push towards the Anomaly itself.

Past that, we'd have to play it by ear, because there's a lot of variables. But the plan would be to secure the Anomaly and bring in more dropships full of troops and heavy equipment to fortify it against a prolonged siege, before sending in the necessary workers and scientists to research it.
No. 21320 ID: 54af1f


Also Solid. Probably less risky than mine, which is rather go for broke.
No. 21323 ID: c71597

Seems like quite a good plan. Although the supply situation might get iffy if we have to stay for any longer amount of time in a siege.
No. 21329 ID: 8bdb6a

As long as we've got a corridor where dropships can descend without heavy ground fire, we should have no real problem resupplying them.

But hey, who can predict.

Another thing to consider is that the aliens never approach the anomaly themselves, so it's theoretically undefended. (But surrounded)

Nevertheless, I think we should land next to it and approach, instead of right on top. There might be some kind of weird alien magic bullshit, which makes me nervous about landing our entire air fleet on it.
No. 21330 ID: 54af1f


Yeah. I think I'll switch to supporting land everyone in the same area. It's a lot less risky if we don't land the drop ships till we have guys on the ground already.
No. 21465 ID: 8bdb6a
File 128122852562.png - (6.59KB , 300x300 , fugue_gunship.png )

Shame that trying to kill all the tiny portals is pissing into the wind. Hunting down less visible, less defended targets is what UCAVs do best. We finally have a role for the things, but we'd need a hundred to make a difference.

Also: How many RP to design:

-A larger gunship with more dakka?

-A guided projectile for the moon gun?

-Forge Caster + Napalm bomb = ???

-Some kind of budget napalm bomb built without superconductors?
No. 21466 ID: 54af1f


I'd suggest modular weapon mounts like a BRIC, and maybe a large bomb bay like a bomber if we can fit it in. That way we can increase our bomber capacity.
No. 21472 ID: a7fb41

Ed, I was thinking... would a Dryad Plague be quicker an easier to develop than a Breaker Plague? We're only one Genetic level short of a Breaker one and if the Dryads are any more like us than they are like Breakers, then we ought to have the facilities and resources to make one already, provided we can get test subjects.

And really, it wouldn't be that hard to send down abduction teams and collect the amount needed within a week. We'd be the Mutons from X-COM, only the Dryads don't have Interceptors. From there, we would only need to release the plague agent into the atmosphere and let those thousands of portals thin out to a few dozen.

Theoretically. So, let's just ask our science advisers: is this viable?
No. 21473 ID: a594b9

How about a tech that lets us fast-build buildings and walls and shit, in exchange for higher resource cost?
No. 21474 ID: e542bd

I also ought to throw out the suggestion of orbital insertion vehicles to avoid the mass Anti-air fire of the mages. Most people seem to like drop pods, but I'd prefer if we used something that can both insert AND extract. Something like a high-velocity and smaller dropship. These would have been perfect for the scenario where we had only a few handfuls of portals to deal with.

To tackle the thousand-tiny-portals problem, we'd have to develop hunter-seeker drones, deliver a plague, or otherwise threaten genocide if they don't stand down. And we're simply not at that point yet.
No. 21477 ID: 8ff82c

i think the best news on the tiny portals is that being small makes it so any mechs and stuff can't come through.
No. 21484 ID: c2c011

When they say small I think they mean two main battle tanks can drive through side by side small. Not two person's can walk through side by side small. And even if it is that small then you can bring stuff through in parts and assemble them on the other side.
No. 21487 ID: 35cea2


-Larger gunship: 30 RP. I am assuming those hardpoints are going to be bombs or missiles, and the turret will be a twin linked medium weapon.
-We can't use breaker weapons for the cannon, seeing as how their ship-based weaponry operates differently from their ground weapons. If you want to have missiles instead, you can research interplanetary cruise and nuclear missiles for 20 RP. They will be launched from the COMMAND NEXUS building, like the other missiles.
-Fusion Bombs will cost 15 RP.
-The reason Napalm bombs cost SC is more of balance than fluff. I just wanted to put a limit to the amount of aerial strikes you can do.

-It is possible, but seeing how their biology seems to rely partially on magic, it will be more difficult for our scientists to do. It will requires Genetic Engineering V to research.

-Fast building for more resources doesn't make sense to me, but I think I'll allow it for 40RP

-A smaller, faster dropship that can enter and leave orbit quickly will cost 30 RP. Now you have to tell me, however, which one would you rather have: Smaller carrying capacity but the ability to quickly insert from space like a drop pod, or more space but insertions are not quite as rapid?
No. 21488 ID: 54af1f


Well, I can't directly speak for Test, but would it be possible to put gunship style rocket pods on the hard points?

Also can we research some kind of light surface to air weapon which uses metal or uranium rather than SC?
No. 21489 ID: 8bdb6a

>I am assuming those hardpoints are going to be bombs or missiles
Well, in the drawing, it's supposed to be (not that you can tell) soviet-style pointy rocket pods, and then battletech-style huge-n-boxy rocket pods at the ends of the wings. The boxy ones are drawn kind of huge, I admit. Depends on how much lift the upgraded thrusters can provide.
I prefer helicopter rockets (they're still guided, I assume) to Interceptor-style air to ground weapons. Gunships don't really fly high or fast enough for regular bombs. (Plus, two bombs per SC is damned expensive)
Also, no passengers. CAS only.

>and the turret will be a twin linked medium weapon.
Nice. That's a lot of dakka.

>We can't use breaker weapons for the cannon
I was thinking it'd fire a kinetic kill vehicle with maneuvering thrusters on it. Like one of them ABM munitions ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC97wdQOmfI )
No. 21505 ID: 55e935

Honestly, I'd go for the smaller, quicker design. They'd have to be deployed en masse, but we really have to cut out the middleman of Atmospheric Forces of we want to reduce AA casualties.

Furthermore, giving our insertion vehicles orbital capability allows us to use them on planets and moons with no atmosphere, unlike all of our current aircraft.
No. 21541 ID: 8bdb6a

How about regular drop pods? Any idea how much they'd cost in BP?
No. 21542 ID: a41b85

what kind? SPACE MARINE style that can have a whole squad inside or ODST style with one guy per pod?
No. 21660 ID: 55e935


Orbital Guidance: A new generation of atmospheric ballistics devices and advances in satellite automation allow for payload delivery comparable to traditional methods and a new class of smaller craft capable of moving in and out of orbit and atmospheres.
Concrete developments in this path would manifest as the capability to use Orbital BP to manufacture satellites for energy production, global monitoring, communication, and weapon deployment, as well as the potential for orbit-to-surface insertion vehicles.

By tech level II, the guidance systems should be sophisticated enough for robotic attack satellites to completely replace our current line of "Solo" Heavy Bombers. Such satellites would be expensive and multiple ones would be needed to cover the entire surface, but there would be no risk of interception or AA retaliation.
Theoretically, advancing to higher tech levels would allow satellites to target larger areas with greater precision, possibly even serving an AA role if it becomes truly sophisticated.

At least, this is what our scientists say. Dr. Ed Pastry from Engineering is in a better position to decide the real benefits.
No. 21690 ID: 3b8693


sounds like a something computer systems would give us.
No. 21698 ID: 55e935

This would be a more focused field of research specifically bent to accelerating our progress in making use of our greatest advantage: carrying on this fight from where they can't reach us. Besides, if we can get satellites that generate power from the planet's magnetic field, it would yield unreal levels of electricity. We've done experiments with it on Earth with great success- except for that the power cable snapped almost immediately after starting because of poor orbital guidance.
No. 22541 ID: 54af1f

Hey Ed, what kind of RP are we looking at for a heavy rail gun capable of full automatic fire (about equivalent of an HMG) which a max strength infantryman can carry.
No. 22545 ID: 5f0943

I think the recoil from such a weapon would be quite deadly to anyone firing the thing (considering it's already a heavy weapon with hefty recoil, and if you make it fire on full auto... well, yeah)
No. 22546 ID: 97cb33

railguns have no recoil.
No. 22547 ID: 5f0943

They don't? huh... Where was that mentioned? I seem to have missed it.
No. 22549 ID: 8bdb6a

I wonder if we can make Caster turrets without needing RP.

Railguns have recoil.

It's fine. We're talking super cyborgs. Though I suspect they were already carrying heavy weapons.
No. 22550 ID: 5f0943

The Max-strength cyborgs are more than capable of using heavy weapons of at least the same size as power armour soldiers.
The problem comes when you put heavy weapons on full auto.

Wait... would it make any difference if we put our max strength cyborgs IN power armour?
No. 22564 ID: c71597

Due to the way power armour works I don't think that would add any benefits.

By the way Ed, would it be possible to make digging explosives for our power infantry? A shaped charge that creates a more or less instant foxhole.
No. 22591 ID: 54af1f

Railguns have recoil its just softer than an equivalent conventional fire arm.

What does everyone think of pausing the rush for the icon to research stuff like super gunships, maybe some form of improved tank or more armour on BRICs etc. given the new threat we now face?
No. 22592 ID: 97cb33

i think the combo nexus and heatshell tech will be anti-magic armor.put that on the bottom of ships and BAM dryads are totes boned
No. 22593 ID: c71597

I think we should finish the Nexus research. It might not give us an immediate solution to our problems but I do think it's something that's going to be very useful down the line and might give us a way to stop more furries from porting in.
No. 22653 ID: 54af1f

How much RP for drogue retarded grenades? Some kind of infantry weapon which fires an explosive which slows down as it approaches the target to about as fast as an incoming sword, then explodes on impact.
No. 22654 ID: 54af1f

Also, how much RP for these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerhaubitze_2000

(IE, a fast firing Howitzer mounted on an APC chassis, cheap on superconductors and with lots of fire power for infantry support)
No. 22683 ID: 8bdb6a

What we really need are super kill trooper furries to counter all these superhumans we fight. Maybe combine the usual kill-furry concept with that 'less creative, but good at following instructions' thing. How many RP?
No. 22705 ID: 54af1f
File 128380474293.png - (5.60KB , 208x203 , firing_arc.png )

You know, there's something a bit screwy with one of the autocannon towers at the anomaly. It'd be much better if it was moved forward to the edge of the green bit, then it could fire both West and South.
No. 23031 ID: 8bdb6a

>the lack of hand-to-hand training as well as good melee weapons is a big drawback

How much to give 'em swords and shit?

And maybe bands of explosive armor for the vehicles.

And way more land mines.
No. 23032 ID: 8bdb6a

Also, sergals to swing the swords. We shall fight fur with fur.
No. 23034 ID: 97cb33

later we get the space sergals. right now we don't have enough time to make them.

how about we punish and reward the guys at the same time? like they get a medal for courage and awesome but get a punishment for breaking formation without warning.
No. 23066 ID: 7ee63c

A fully automatic railgun that would still be able to be wielded by MaxStr and Power Infantry would be weaker than the medium railgun cannons found on BRICs and APCs, and more closely resemble a larger version of the Commando rifle. 15 RP

Implantation doesn't add any additional benefits when wearing Power armor.

10 RP

A slow missile launcher would take 15 RP to develop.

A rapid-fire artillery piece would cost 35 RP. Likely would have less range and less powerful ordinance than the MLRS, but faster rate of fire and cheaper.

A close combat organism would cost 75 RP for a humanoid version (Slower, smarter, better able to use a variety of equipment) and 50 RP for a non-humanoid version (faster, unable to do anything but bite/slash/whatever the enemy)

Understood. Assume the turret on the left mirrors the turret placement on the right.

Depends on what you will be equipping them with. As a sidearm, like a knife or baton, would be 1 METAL for 2. A much larger weapon acting as a primary weapon would cost 1 METAL, 1 CERAMIC for 2, and force them to only use a pistol (Power Infantry sized) for a firearm.
No. 23106 ID: 8bdb6a

>A slow missile launcher would take 15 RP to develop.
Might make sense to just build more RPGs. If tank rounds go right through Snarren shields, an RPG will probably poke a hole in them.

>A close combat organism would cost 75 RP for a humanoid version (Slower, smarter, better able to use a variety of equipment)
If this works like I hope, this would be a great big help, and something we should do sooner rather than later, since it requires an investment of time.

75 RP sure is a lot, though. 75 RP is enough to finish Nexus research, so we can hopefully focus solely on helping Dryads, or just leave.

>Depends on what you will be equipping them with. As a sidearm, like a knife or baton, would be 1 METAL for 2.
This should definitely be standard. Not so sure about the swords, since power infantry can carry guns big enough to fuck up a Snarren at range and we want as many of those as we can get. (And we've got rebel dryads for a melee meat-wall)

A heavy bomber load of 20x napalm bombs still only costs 2 SC, right? If not, maybe we could try researching a 3 BP Melt Disney World(tm) fusion payload.
No. 23107 ID: bdaeb2

No way, man. We're calling them Muschio Meltos(tm).
No. 23108 ID: 8bdb6a

Speaking of quest references... we didn't name the desert colony Ryxix for nothing. We named it that because we're going to make monsters there.
No. 23109 ID: d560d6

I approve of all plans that involve showing the Snarren what properly terrifying sharkwolfthings are.
No. 23111 ID: 8bdb6a

Improved Motors is another good way to boost the army's melee abilities, but at 60 RP, it's almost as pricy as researching the monsters.
No. 23117 ID: d560d6

But would it take effect immediately? I guess the decision is between the logistics of deploying either new tech, and I don't have that information.

Also, totally, yes.
No. 23119 ID: 8bdb6a

>But would it take effect immediately? I guess the decision is between the logistics of deploying either new tech, and I don't have that information.
I don't know, but given how upgrades have worked in the past, we'll probably need to pay a hefty sum of superconductors to deploy the motor upgrades. So... maybe later.

Meanwhile, organisms don't seem like they'd require fancy materials. They'll need cybernetics, but that's not so bad. (A single Suicide Drone takes almost as many SC as a minor-augmentation cyborg!)

New tech is tricky that way. Each new tech seems more SC-hungry than the old stuff.

...say. I wonder if we can fit the heavy gunship's hardpoints with rocket pods instead of bombs, to save SC.
No. 23120 ID: d560d6


It strikes me that there's quite a lot of fairly static numeric information in the quest that could be presented better on its wiki page than having to delve for the last update where Ed told us which buildings were available, especially given that ther might be later text comments in updates that tweak values.

Good idea, bad idea? That template's obviously a prototype; it might be missing a field and it doesn't have pretty resource icons yet because I don't want to go uploading images that will never get used and just become clutter. Also it's going to need each building cropped into a separate image, because you can't get Mediawiki to embed a subset of an image. :/ I'll probably make the template enforce a common prefix or something.

It might also make sense for vehicles, but probably not research since that needs to show the graph of connections and changes quite a lot quite often. It's also more tied to the current point in the quest for the purposes of archiving than exactly how much a Medium Cesspit may have cost on that exact turn.
No. 23122 ID: 8bdb6a

Is there a way to upload the building/vehicle construction .xls to the wiki?
No. 23123 ID: d560d6

It can probably be dropped in the File namespace if Dylan pokes the configuration, but that has the same kind of problem as the big image currently there: it's a big, monolithic lump that has to be downloaded; loaded into, edited, and saved from another program; and then re-uploaded when something changes. Updating a value when it's all template arguments is a case of thumping edit, overtyping, and thumping save. And edit conflicts are less likely and easier to deal with because of the finer granularity and differencing.

Although admittedly a spreadsheet version is more use if you're playing with a solver.
No. 23131 ID: d560d6

Since /questdis/ is for crazy theories too:
>* LionsPhil finally realises that the logo at the top of the The Icon graphic is the union of all of the characters in "The Icon".
>< Shiitake> ...fffuuu I didn't notice that
><Shiitake> It only requires HIN tho
><LionsPhil> Well, yeah.
><LionsPhil> May also apply to the patterns on the other Anomoly discs, but it's so lossy getting a word back out would be 99% arse-pull.
><Shiitake> right
><LionsPhil> http://quest.lv/kusaba/quest/src/128296342596.png <-- The left one we have does look like a potential result of "MATERIAL", though.
><LionsPhil> But the right one...enh. Less so.
><LionsPhil> I can't think what'd cause that XX-pattern.
><Shiitake> V and A possibly.
No. 23132 ID: d560d6

Look at me I'm bumping this thread again.
Ed, can you take a look at http://quest.lv/wiki/The_Icon#Unknown_Second_Universe and set it straight on which Ux system is which? The quest seems to have got muddled at one point (posts in question are >>/questarch/138441 and >>/questarch/161609 ).
No. 23324 ID: ca0fc5

Actually I've decided to take out the BOMBER's capacity to carry numerous smaller munitions. It overlaps too much with their special munitions, I feel. Also, I'll give a BOMBER-sized version of the FUSION CANISTER, the STARMAKER (or you can call it Melt Disney World(tm) or Muschio Melto(tm). That works just as well). It will cost 3 BP, 1 SC and 5 FUEL and 2 METAL for one.

My mistake. The first one is correct:

UA: White dwarf star, no planets. Unexplored
UB: Shrimp home system
UC: Red Dwarf, planets with METAL, URANIUM and SUPERCONDUCTOR
UD: Dryad planet

Replacing the hardpoints with rocket pods would cost additional 3 SC and 5 METAL, but would not require extra resources for the ammunition.
No. 23325 ID: 54af1f

How much to research a tactical bomber which can carry 10 or 12 or however many interceptor munitions?
No. 23327 ID: 4cdabb

>It overlaps too much with their special munitions, I feel.
Well, it's nice to have the option for heavy bombers to loiter and drop bombs one by one in support of ground forces, rather than a big ol' alpha strike. Ah well.

I think trying to find air/orbital support options that don't need lots of SC may be a lost cause. Forge Casters and Breaker guns need a lot as well...

I think it may be time to cough up 75 RP, engineer soldier critters, and ramp up Gestation Tank capacity. (They'll need some SC for cybernetics, but a MinStr cyborg only needs a teeny bit more of that than a Suicide Drone. One barrage of bombs from our Interceptors needs as many SC as building 200 such cyborgs)
No. 25213 ID: 6ad08e
File 128743929460.png - (51.41KB , 897x2382 , icon_res_tree_27-08-2010.png )

Edo-kun, Edo-kun, I untangled your research tree. Do you like it? :3
No. 25214 ID: 2563d4

I like that this is moving into PCB path-routing territory. :D
No. 25215 ID: 1b42c5

good job dude.
No. 25216 ID: 6ad08e
File 128744102150.png - (53.14KB , 897x2382 , icon_res_tree_27-08-2010.png )

Forgot the Improved Motors cost.
No. 25539 ID: fb2c2c


Awesomeness. I'll try to model the future tech tree off of this one, so all you need to do to make it clearer is to delete the text.
No. 25617 ID: 3df3c1

Redirecting the discussion from the wiki.

I pondered the template approach, but decided to go with tables. Generally because IMO tables are what this kind of info is meant for.
Either way, I think pictures will have to go. We have nearly 60 building to list, and another 20 for vehicles/spaceships/weaponry. Mind you, large buildings (18 of them) have icons 168x168 px each. The pages are going to be unnecessarily long.

Additionally, there might be a bit of misconcenption about how hard it is to edit a huge slab of a table versus a wall of nearly identical template entries. That being that they're about equally cumbersome to edit. So when it comes down to how it looks, I prefer tables.

As for embedding a subset of an image, this is impossible, but there is a way of linking from a section of an image via imagemap extension (not sure if installed here). A very simple example can be found here: http://www.armadahq.com/wiki/index.php5?title=Maelstrom#Sector_Map , made by yours truly.
So what we can have is an picture with an index of buildings/ships linking to various things further down the page. In this case templates could potentially work better than tables.

Like LP, I see the entry having icons for metal, ceramics, workers, etc. instead of words.

If you have no idea what this was all about, take a look here: http://quest.lv/wiki/Talk:The_Icon
No. 25634 ID: 1854db

Merging Metal and Ceramics: Good idea/bad idea?
Same with merging Uranium and Superconductors.
No. 26179 ID: a09a03

>For one, the anomaly battle takes place in the middle of a fuckhuge forest.
Not exactly. The clearing apparently extends beyond the maximum range of our weapons.
>Ryxix, unlike the anomaly, is in the middle of the desert, which means no trees that give cover from artillery and MLRS.
Trees don't really provide cover from artillery. It's a bit like trying to huddle up against a telephone pole to stay out of the rain. Just don't work.
>In the desert, they cannot hide, and attacking Ryxix would be an entirely different matter than the anomaly, given that it is basically our military stronghold.
Actually, the Anomaly is our military stronghold. It has all our best troops and most of our vehicles. In fact, Ryxix is quite vulnerable right now.
No. 26180 ID: 2563d4

Also, as long as they're opening portals to bring in reinforcements from other universes, we're basically fighting against someone with an unlimited resources cheat.
No. 26182 ID: 31e5bb

mostly, but the snarren my say "fuck you" to the dryads for who knows why. we need to capture a living one. but anything that can breach their shields usually obliterates them.
No. 26183 ID: 2563d4

I don't know how much in the way of metagaming faggotry it is for Splinter to know this, but from our perspective it seems pretty obvious that ol' rabbit ears god is turning his races together against us regardless of how they might otherwise feel. The Snarren were one of the original choices he considered to do the actual destruction of Earth.
No. 26223 ID: 5f0943

> Not exactly. The clearing apparently extends beyond the maximum range of our weapons.

It does? huh, that wasn't really on my mind when I wrote that.

> Trees don't really provide cover from artillery. It's a bit like trying to huddle up against a telephone pole to stay out of the rain. Just don't work.

That wasn't exactly what I meant about 'cover' (yes, I realize I should have phrased it better). I was more reffering to that the artillery elements were unable to get good shots at targets hiding in the woods, because it was hard getting reliable information about their position.
They either had to (figuratively) shoot in the dark, or at that which they only had the vaguest idea where was.
Of course, blindingly obvious things like the portals are impossible to miss.

> Actually, the Anomaly is our military stronghold. It has all our best troops and most of our vehicles. In fact, Ryxix is quite vulnerable right now.

The anomaly is more of a heavily guarded point of interest.
We shifted a large portion of our forces there to ward of what is the heaviest attack on us on the planet to date.

Of course, more or less half of our troops, and half of our vehicles are there, (counting the soldiers and tanks that are inbound) to ward of said attack, and then there are the troops we have aiding the rebels, so yes, you are right about Ryxix being lightly defended (though the desert hasn't exactly been a hotspot for activity ever since we dropped that nuke on the first portal some time ago, so it makes sort of sense to prioritize the deployment of troops to where they are actually needed).
No. 26224 ID: 31e5bb

uhhh the telephone pole thing doesn't work on this planet since the trees here are huge as fuck.
No. 26225 ID: a09a03

>I was more reffering to that the artillery elements were unable to get good shots at targets hiding in the woods
Righto. You're thinking concealment.

They're also further apart. The 'shadow' of cover each tree casts is quite limited, and totally random. Troops protected from shrapnel in one direction are unprotected from another, unless the branches above are somehow strong enough to stop an unburst artillery shell.
No. 27160 ID: 5d20a9

Ok, we need to take DNA samples from every Driad and Poodle dead, if we cant take the time to that, lets collect some fingers in a freezer, the important thing is to get as many different DNA as possible. If, later, we unlock "Driad/Poodle Plague" we can vat grow as many subjects as we need.
No. 27162 ID: 2563d4

Probably wise. I expect poodle DNA can only help is developing anti-poodle weapons.

Also: mines. We really need some half-decent cost-effective area denial.
No. 27163 ID: 5d20a9

Artillery shells that deploys mines over distance would also be useful...
No. 27173 ID: 96ec3d

Yeah, we positively have to collect some corpses. We've got technologies to steal.
It could be an alternative "tower" for the MLRS. I'm thinking Warzone 2100-style modular vehicles where every component has a set cost and you combine them as you see fit.
No. 27175 ID: 56dc25

We need to get a lot of cloning chambers online as soon as reasonably possible. We can't sustain this kind of casualties for long without far more replacement bodies.

It's kind of bitter to contemplate the last few remnants of humanity becoming dominated by force-cloned soldiers, but it's what we have.

I suppose that what we really need is some time to peacefully extract resources from this planet to gain in strength, but I don't know how good the odds of that happening are. I'm sure they'll attack again soon in even more force than before.
No. 27181 ID: 2563d4

If we get a chance to expand our economic base, we really need to set up mining operations in system UC and strip it of its delicious superconductors: http://tgchan.org/wiki/The_Icon#Unknown_Second_Universe

Then we can actually use our bombers and orbital weapons again. (We mustn't forget nukes, either.)
No. 27189 ID: 45be60

Instructions for making biological mecha (with low superconductor cost):

1] Find a naturally occuring creature which is large, durable, and usually docile, but can be roused to destructive anger when its loved ones are threatened, like, say, the common african or indian elephant.

2] Apply genetic engineering and in-eutero cybernetic enhancement as desired. Most genetic modifications are optional, and can be left for the MK-II if time or resources are an issue. An armored elephant turns out to be pretty scary already. A control scheme involving a direct pilot connection to host's higher brain functions is your only requirement to make it more than a glorified horse. Just like a master-trainer relationship, but with more refined commands. Given a reasonable understanding of cybernetics, this sort of biomechanical interface is pretty trivial, but relies on trust built between pilot and host.

3] Armor it like a vehicle, mount weapons on hard points. Remeber, mass is an elephant's favorite weapon.

4] Begin research for MK-II, where you create the first knuckle walking elephants with opposable thumbs. Consider uplifting elephant sentience to create super soldiers if desired.
No. 27190 ID: ca79b4

I'm not really 100% on the elephant thing, but I think a major priority right now is making monsters and shit that don't need many superconductors. Unless we find a better place to live, superconductors are basically the only thing we care about.

...and we probably can't actually switch planets right now, because we don't have any superconductors, and SOMEONE decided to disassemble several of our freighters.
No. 27192 ID: c71597

We could probably make an effort to expand the moonbase though and transport all non essential personal to it. Then we can eventually move over our military personal as well. Put up a few mines dedicated entirely to feeding the moon cannon more ammunition. Make a giant troll face out of some lights and then just sit there and bombard the planet into oblivion while telling the Dryads to suck it.

But that's not really a good plan.

Getting some expendable guard beasts has a higher priority than trolling the Dryads on a huge scale. Would be nice if we could get something like a cross between rats and attack dogs. Something that breeds like crazy, can eat almost anything, is extremly territorial, vicious like hell and will attack on the slightest provocation.

If we let something like that loose in the ecosystem it should hopefully create some fun chaos. And work as area denial against our enemies. It would be a bonus if we could tame them and use them as anti snarren shock troopers.
No. 27194 ID: a09a03

We need to stay on the planet to get Superconductors, Fuel, and Uranium. There's none of that on the moon. That means we need to maintain the Ryxix colony.

And we already tried designing ravenous pests. They're not really going to put a dent in the planet's ecosystem, because it's already full of giant monsters that eat everything.

I think we should make a dedicated soldier species and start churning them out. Dunno if that's actually better than just churning out humans, though. Prior experience has indicated that humans are the best all around design our guys are capable of making.
No. 27195 ID: a09a03

Also, I don't really have a solid plan for what to do in The End, other than to follow the rough plan that we settled on awhile ago...

Any ideas?
No. 27196 ID: 7bfbae

best all around, but what about big beasts to counter the snarren beasts? just grow like... king kongs.
No. 27198 ID: a09a03

Well, feel free to ask Ed if you want, but I doubt we'll be able to make anything better than MBTs.
No. 27222 ID: 56dc25

My big concern on this is that having confidence in our ability to genetic engineer monsters good enough to go toe to toe with our enemy's genetically engineered monsters with magic powers seems overly optimistic.

I can't help but feel that we should be playing to our strengths, not our weaknesses- developing more and better technology and ranged weapons, just trying to design them to not need any SCs to build. We've had good success with the fusion casters even against their best troops, for example; their only weakness is that they take resources we can't afford. Why not put our efforts into developing slightly less effective but non-superconductor-dependent weaponry? Then we can have our troops use those for the most part and only put the SCs where they're really needed, on superweapons and essential projects.

Instead of using our cloning tanks on monsters, use them on populace that can be trained into soldiers, scientists or workers as needed. If we really want to genetically engineer something, we can tweak humans to be a bit more effective. Or survive in space. Or perhaps some sort of rampantly growing super-crop would be a good start, so that we can get far more food on a per-worker basis. There are almost certainly better ideas.
No. 27223 ID: 1854db

If we can make anything SIMILAR to MBT's we'd be able to get them cheaper.
No. 27225 ID: a09a03


My plan is to make big strong troopers who are better than humans at close combat AND carrying big guns. Apparently this makes them uncreative for some reason, but whatever. They just have to do what we tell them.
No. 27228 ID: 45be60

There is a long tradition, in sci-fi settings including humanoid mechs, of mankind's greatest weapons of war being made with biological components. I'm just trying to play the setting by suggesting we make them. I would argue that augmenting genetically modified biology with cybernetics and superior equipment IS playing to our strengths.

Of course, often they are barely controlled monsters, so I want to try building off of something benign and unlikely to rampage if left without a pilot.
No. 27229 ID: 7bfbae

... are you saying grow grow an EVA?
if we can get it to actually have an A.T. field then it would be ungodly powerful. could just step on the jumbo snarren and turn them into pancakes. and if they make an even MORE jumbo one then it is already there to counter it.
No. 27235 ID: 1854db

What do you mean, why? They're vat-grown! That's free aside from the time it takes to make them, which we could be using to get MORE MANS.
No. 27236 ID: 2563d4

Pretty much this.

Also sorting out our economy. The reason we're SC-starved is not that our tech is too SC-fancy; it's that we're mining an SC-poor world. Pretty sure it would be more sustainable if we started getting in materials from better sources.
No. 27239 ID: a09a03

And the manpower to run the facilities, the resources to build the facilities, etc.

Tanks are "free," too, if you consider it's just factories, mines, and workers...

But there aren't any other sources unless we make another interstellar colony, which makes bookkeeping an even bigger nightmare. Plus, we need more ships. Might be better to just build even more SC mines on this planet until we're ready to leave. I'm not sure.
No. 27244 ID: 5ba6bb

Ok, this is MY list of research priorities, they may not be the best... at all.

1. Mines and better entrenchment tools and tactics (What happend with sandbags? Second line to fall back? crossed fire? Star Forts? etc.)

2.Vat Grown light infantry, non-humans for simplicity and efficiency, LI are meatshields, Power inf. and commando should still be humans.

3. Better infatry and ground based weapons and tactics (We wont use SAWs and LAWs in SPACE? How about Nazi's Stug based cheap tanks?)

4. Rat based biological weapon for area denial. They may not work in here, but will have a future use.

But right now, our priorities should be, investigate the anomaly and GTFO (from the anomaly, and start making evacuation plans for a planetary GTFO... WMDs or other spite weapons optional...)
No. 27256 ID: 44e36f

I agree that we ought to get as much SC mining done as possible until we leave the planet. We need to replace those freighters.

Anyway, I think we're all thinking too short-term here. Every technology we develop specifically to solve a problem native to one planet is technology that could have been used to give us a permanent edge. For example, trying to design a Breaker or Snarren plague makes sense. Making a Dryad plague does not.
Likewise, bolstering the size and strength of our fleet and mounting our primary megaweapons on that makes sense. Placing a giant immobile cannon as a fixed structure on the moon doesn't, unless we can pack up the cannon's prime components and deploy it on another world.

We're a race of space nomads. We need to make all of our advancements things that we can take with us and will work in a variety of situations. Now, making advancements in genetic engineering makes sense, as it's an extremely versatile tech, but we can't afford to lose it as soon as we leave the planet, due to the giant lab superproject we'd need to build. If we're going to go that route at all, I say we construct a small ship designed to house the genetics lab.

As for making genetic monsters, I'm all for that. I eventually want to take humans out of the front-lines completely, since we can't afford this many casualties. Having a purebreed citizen caste and a clone warrior caste would cause too many social issues and might lead to an uprising. However, we still need ground troops to supplement our orbital attack superiority. Thus, monsters. The Tozol route and the EVA route are equally acceptable.
No. 27258 ID: 45be60

That's the outstanding example, yes, but there are others. Evas, Engels, Busters, E-frames, even one version of Gundams has a hint of something living under the armor.

researching the anomaly is pretty much a given sure, but at the moment we lack a place to GTFO to, and lack the storage capacity to do it in one trip. Also, abandoning the resistance we accidentally started would be kind of lame. It would doom them to failure and leave the prophecies about us being recorded in local history as true. That sorta bugs me.

How about producing what we DO have in abundance and trading with that other planet for the superconductors we can't get here?
No. 27259 ID: 5ba6bb

I don't think that we will have that much social trouble with a new engineered race, we already have the Nautilus, but dividing the thing in "castes"... that may bring some trouble...
No. 27266 ID: a09a03

>How about producing what we DO have in abundance and trading with that other planet for the superconductors we can't get here?
They don't sell SC.
No. 27269 ID: 45be60

the bastards! Course, as a pre-spaceflight society, maybe they just don't know superconductors when they see em, and don't recognize their value. Maybe we can just show them what we want, and get them for cheap :3
No. 29591 ID: 61e33a
File 129524408543.png - (3.66KB , 259x152 , SHC2.png )

Gonna be starting up the new Icon chapter soon (I know I haven't finished The End's current chapter, but it's hit a slow spot and I think a temporary change in direction will be helpful in the long run), but there will be major balance changes. Due to this, I have two options:

Implement the changes immediately, but be forced to skip ahead to the point where the Splinter finishes study of the Nexus and construction of CRUISER (Which still needs a name) and abandons planet Gretz,
Play a shortened chapter encompassing the time between the present and the abandoning of Gretz, without the game changes.
No. 29592 ID: c71597

I'm ok with a timeskip. The sooner we can get into space and possibly nuke a city or two from orbit the happier I will be.
No. 29598 ID: 1854db

Abandon Gretz? But... the rebels! Maybe we can just take them with us...?
No. 29599 ID: 15b51b

There's probably going to be a lot of decisions to make as we leave the planet. And we can probably do it in like 2 updates, so I think we should just play it out.
No. 29611 ID: 2563d4

While it's kind of an obvious high-level plot thing that humanity is kept on the run and unable to settle down, the notion that we're going to be forced to abandon Gretz is kind of, eh...
No. 29624 ID: 15b51b

Raises the question of where we're going. Maybe we'll get a clue from the Nexus. Maybe we should send ships off the map to find more stars.

If that don't work, I guess we should head to that nearby airless rock. That's close enough that we can take multiple trips. (Though we want to conserve fuel, because there's no nebulae around to harvest)
No. 29734 ID: 15b51b

>What about making some more Beardy Bobs? They were very useful.
They weren't THAT useful, and each one costs almost as much SC as a cyborg. (And cyborg upgrades consume most of our SC these days)
No. 29741 ID: 1854db

They killed Snarren real good though... and if we face any more Big Dogs we'll need every advantage we can get (although honestly we should just geneforge something huge to fight them)
No. 29765 ID: 1854db

It's time to decide if we stay here and keep fighting, risking discovery by the Breakers, leaving a small, relatively disposable outpost behind to assist the rebels until such time as they are successful, or just abandon the world entirely. Our next actions shall define what direction we go here.
No. 29766 ID: f6360f

I would like to stay here until such time as we have located another source of SCs with our scouts. Even though we're slowly bleeding out population, we need to keep advancing our tech and training our people- that means the kind of resources that a planet has.

Actually doing something with that alien planet that was willing to trade might help in that regard. Worth investigating, at least.

Anyway, eventually there will likely be another major push by the Dryads, and I'd like to be gone before it hits... but where the heck are we supposed to go, then? I would prefer not to leave without a destination in mind.
No. 29769 ID: 15b51b

Let's go to the airless rock system. Buildings in a vacuum take a long time to build, so let's send guys ahead to set up basics.

A ton of new workers finish training on turn 90, so let's set that as our departure date for the population.
No. 29772 ID: d6540f
File 129552756548.png - (50.34KB , 897x2169 , icon_res_tree_2011-01-20.png )

I think I'm gonna take the liberty of uploading this to the Icon wiki page. Then I'll crop the yet-not-researched tech icons and copy Ed's descriptions for them.

Too bad the wiki doesn't know what imagemaps are, they'd make things much easier. Trivial, even.

On topic: I'm gonna be unoriginal and say leave our current world entirely. I kinda doubt the rebellion is really going to win there, with or without our help, and I don't see a good enough reason to keep supplying them when we have at least two races chasing us across the universe.
No. 29773 ID: 2563d4

>upload then crop
Wrong way around. Unless it's brand spanking new or undocumented, there's no way to embed just a region of an image in a wiki page; each tech icon needs to be a separate file.

I mean, cool, go for it, though. I suggest sticking all the files under a common prefix; perhaps File:The Icon/Tech/Automatic Sasquatch Mafipulator.png etc.
No. 29775 ID: d6540f

Done and done.

I wasn't clear, what I meant was "upload the tree image, crop some icons, upload them as separate files".

Which is pretty much what I did. I was tempted to put the big image at 100% zoom, but the page takes a lot to scroll through already. For those of you who view the page on 1024x768, the right side of the tree image should be somewhere in the middle of the screen.
No. 29776 ID: d6540f

Disregard that last line about screen resolution, I changed it to right-hand.
No. 29785 ID: 15b51b

1) Neural Implants could potentially be a game-changer by letting us do the painfully slow things (training and research) faster. But it could also be Genetic Engineering all over again, IE: A gigantic pile of RP and associated expenses in order to do things that are basically worse than doing nothing.

2) Ditto for Computers IV. Drones are very expensive and not very good. I was hoping the UCAVs would be useful for their long loiter times, but since they're so easy to shoot down, that's not been useful. The other types of drones are useful only as expendable chaff, except they're too expensive to be really expendable. But what the heck do we research instead? Massive Factories? Labs? Shipyards? Mines? Close Combat Organisms (which will probably be some misshapen monstrosity instead of something cool and/or sergals)

3) Maybe we're approaching the whole Dryad war all wrong. Maybe we need to be pumping out lots of consumer goods and giving them to the Dryad population. Just dump crates of them from high altitude with parachutes until we've created a market, and setting up shops in Rebel territory. Get the underclasses on our side, like what made the rebellion in the first place.

4) We don't really have a good feel for what things are like with the rebels. Hell, I don't even know how many there are. Are there millions of guys in rebel territory? (If so, how do they feel about us?) Or is it just a few thousand desperate guerrillas we're pretending can win?

6) We don't need to keep secrets from the Galts. What are they going to tell Totus that the Snarren haven't already? We can totally spin our presence on the planet in a positive light, too. Basically say that we're supporting one faction that's on the defensive, and another group of aliens are supporting another faction that's on the offensive, and we're losing because the other guys are bringing in way more dudes. Plus, we totally tried coexisting peacefully, but that didn't work, then we tried just living on an uninhabited island, with their permission, and then they arrived and tried to kill us all, so fuck them.

7) Speaking of fucking them, we can easily build enough Starmakers to drop one per day. That's unfortunately not a lot when it comes to a serious war, but it should help.

8) It's weird how whenever we get more workers, we quickly get to the point where I can't figure out how to get by with less. We need to free up workers and send them ahead to Airless Rockograd to build buildings for when we move the population. I don't want to sit in orbit for 5 months doing nothing.

9) Does anyone remember how much ship space food units take up? It can't possibly be one space for one person/month of food. That'd mean we starve right quick.
No. 29787 ID: d6540f

> 1) Neural Implants could potentially be a game-changer by letting us do the painfully slow things (training and research) faster. But it could also be Genetic Engineering all over again.
I’d ask Ed if he could make up some sort of tech that combines Neural Implants path and Computers path (or just the latter) which speeds up all research and possibly reduces its cost.

> 2) Ditto for Computers IV. […] But what the heck do we research instead? Massive Factories? Labs? Shipyards? Mines? Close Combat Organisms (which will probably be some misshapen monstrosity instead of something cool and/or sergals)
I have a feeling we’ll probably have to specialize in one (maybe two) tech branches to get anywhere. Let’s see what Comps V offers. We can always stop at Comps IV and go full Dr. Frankenstein. We are fairly far in Gen Engineering, so human/dryad hybrids with innate magical powers must be somewhere within our reach.

> 3) Maybe we're approaching the whole Dryad war all wrong. Maybe we need to be pumping out lots of consumer goods and giving them to the Dryad population.
I’ll admit I read the threads a while ago and probably forgot something crucial, but what exactly does overthrowing Dryad elders bring us? Accomplishment for doing something good? Are we going to mess with each and every race on our way? We got what we wanted, let’s get the hell out.

> 6), 7), 8)
No. 29799 ID: 2dd482

Huge thread so I don't know if this has been asked before.

Can we build the biotronics facilty as a purpose built starship?
No. 29801 ID: c71597

>We are fairly far in Gen Engineering, so human/dryad hybrids with innate magical powers must be somewhere within our reach.

They would be useless. Possibly worse than useless. Magic is not something innate in Dryads, what they do is basically ask their god to do something and if the proper rituals are observed then it happens. It's made through an external force that makes a choice wheter or not to make it happen. Dryads working for us or a human or a gester trying to use magic would no have any effect in the slightest, except maybe make them look silly.

If it's small enough we could put one in a freighter. But that gives less space for supplies and passengers. And right now we need all the space for people and stuff that we can get. We also need to get out as soon as we can and every extra ship we have to build means staying longer.
No. 29803 ID: 2563d4

This all seems basically right, but I simply can't remember enough details of this quest to say much more. :|
No. 29807 ID: 5cef15

I asked that one a while back and never got an answer.
No. 29861 ID: 03e599
File 129567831112.png - (3.67KB , 259x152 , SHC3.png )

Gonna be addressing some of these questions lying around here.

4) The rebellion is difficult to define clearly. 80% of Dryads are nonmagical, but only about 36% of that number supports the actions of the rebels. Even fewer in number are those who actually resort to combat to continue the rebellion, numbering nearly as low as humanity. The majority of this number resides in small sectors of the planet that are under complete rebel control. With the appearance of the Snarren, the rebels are steadily losing ground. The future psychological and cultural effects of this failing rebellion, however, are inestimable. We cannot guess how their civilizations will react in the coming years.

9)Food takes 1/10th of the space of other materials. This means that APPROXIMATELY 160 spaces can support our entire population for a turn.

The facility is too large to fit in a standard freighter, but for 15 RP a specialized freighter can be researched that will carry the facility.
No. 29867 ID: 15b51b

Here's my plans for the move.

In 6 months, our ships finish upgrading and a new batch of Workers finishes. That's basically when we've got everything we need from the planet. This of course requires that we hold out for another 6 months, at a minimum, but I think we can do it if we really pull out all the stops with bombing the bejesus out of everything. The Snarren will be pouring everything into defeating the Dryads instead of attacking our island colony.

We can sell the Galts tech to get metal. We've never really needed lots of metal before, but we do now. We'll stop by there and pick up 6k metal or something and then head to the colony site and start building in preparation for the arrival of dudes. The colony will either be UC or Hylios depending on what's at the latter.

Since this means we'll be at the planet for 6 more turns, possibly as long as 10 or even 12, we should research Plasma Guns to kill Snarren better.
No. 29902 ID: 259738

Agree with this. Also like the idea of moving scientific facilities like labs and in the future, the biotronics facility to freighters, but that can wait for later.
No. 29903 ID: 15b51b

I maybe kinda sorta am deconstructing the 5 labs aboard freighters right now.

They're small labs, which are crappy and inefficient. 5 RP/turn for 2-3 turns won't really matter, and we need more space for things and people. (And we need to make a medical freighter to replace the one that someone scrapped)

On that note, how many RP to make a medium/large freighter?

Also gonna need Massive Labs and later Shipyards.
No. 29912 ID: 54af1f

Can we research some kinda sensory upgrade so we can pinpoint the Dryads mages and the like more easily?
No. 29929 ID: 259738

I was thinking more like massive/large lab equivalent freighters. Small labs are really inefficient, so yeah, that makes sense.
No. 29936 ID: 2dd482

basically this. Once we gtfo off gretz and have some less pressing research needs, spend some RP to make dedicated, purpose built lab ships. None of this converted freighter nonsense.
No. 29968 ID: 4907bd

Okay, we REALLY need more time for the engine upgrade because we're kinda at the verge of losing. So we need a stalling tactic. One of two ways to do this:

A) Call for some kind of cease fire. They don't know we're just trying to buy time to get away and think we're actually invested in controlling the planet. We make up a pretense for temporary armistice that favors them somehow.

B) We resort to global terror. Threaten to incinerate all major civilian population centers (what few they have) on the planet instantly if they don't hold back their attacks. Hold their entire civilian population hostage, make them think we can actually pull it off, and even if they refuse, their civilians will be none too happy with being sold out by the ruling class.
No. 29980 ID: c71597

If we go with the second one then we could start it off by using a nuke on one of their population centers. Shows them that we can actually do it, we will do it and that we're really fucking serious.

Otherwise they might just assume that we don't have the balls for it and keep on pushing.
No. 29982 ID: 2563d4

Indiscriminately nuking population centres will go over real well with our attempts to improve Rebel morale, I'm sure. And totally won't backfire horribly with the ones now inamongst Splinter forces.
No. 29983 ID: c71597

I never said it was a good option. But you shouldn't try blackmail or ultimatums unless you're willing to follow up on them. Hell the Mages would probably not stop even if we did nuke their population centres. They would probably only view it as further justification that they were right from the start and fight even harder.

If we're going to get them to stay away and buy ourselves some time then we need some good old fashioned area denial. Make a strip of land that they can't pass through.

Or we could see if the Rebels would be willing to go for a suicide bombing option. We pull out our forces from one of their bigger bases, in return they get a nuke. They will be overwhelmed and loose, which is when they fire off the nuke.

Which might not have the effects we're after either since the Snarren reinforcements are pretty much unlimited.

So we might have to say fuck it, pull out and go to the moon until we got our stuff ready to leave properly.
No. 29988 ID: 2dd482

Another poster suggested making a ton of consumer goods and airdropping them over civilian areas, and I have to agree with that plan.

Whatever remnants were found in the city we abandoned were enough to spark a small uprising, surely exposing even more of the population to our goods and technology would ensure massive rebellions.
No. 29989 ID: 1854db

We could also drop down GUNS. Heheheh.
No. 30562 ID: 89fb14

so can anyone help me get what happened in the anomaly war? i noticed we were fighting about equal numbers but getting our asses handed by werewolf melee with shields or something close to it?

now it seems that we are abandoning the planet, hoping they wont chase us with some weird sort of portal shenanigans that we dont know of. this sounds so bad, im almost willing to torch the planet's atmosphere before leaving.

also why arent we dropping bases and city everywhere to mass forces and population? i know ed would roll his eyes every turn, but considering we have a nautical civilization in a nearby occupable planet literaly willing to buy anything from us, it could be a good idea to drop a few of us there.

also also, how is our genetic engineering levels? its time to make the next best hyoomans
No. 30662 ID: 15b51b

>You're still not getting it. The point of the attack is to....
>You know what? Forget it. This is a cinematic game. I was stupid to try to bring operational level planning into this.
Like how?

>Once the enemy has committed large numbers of troops in the attack, we extract our troops and then use the nukes ON THE MASSED ENEMY ARMY.
The use of nuclear weapons will undermine our relationship with the rebels.
No. 30668 ID: c71597

At that point the rebels would be largely wiped out anyway, aside from the refugees we have in our base. And if they decide that they don't want to tag along anymore then we could just leave them on the planet. If the rebels are going to die anyway then they can atleast serve some kind of purpose as they go.
No. 30669 ID: 15b51b

What purpose is that, exactly?

Also, we may potentially be looking at 5-10k rebels integrating with the Splinter (compared with the non-Dryad population of 18k)
No. 30672 ID: 2dd482

>The use of nuclear weapons will undermine our relationship with the rebels.

I don't give a fuck about the rebels anymore. We're getting off this planet as soon as we can. The rebels are just a drain on resources and costing us manpower trying to protect them. They are finished. It's time we make a last stand on our terms and get out with as few casualties as possible. If we have to nuke a few thousand rebels to do it, then so be it.
No. 30677 ID: 65c1e2

that is too many of them. as in, im pretty sure it will be impossible to keep them on check. we could be looking at a civil war once they realize that the regular citizen is as frail as a fruit they eat.

im not really enthusiastic about getting rebels or dryads at all. 1k of them will make literally impossible to screen out the spies that can make portals, let alone 5k.
No. 30680 ID: c71597

Who will be untrained. So we can't make them do work as workers and certainly not as professionals. And they will take up space.

Left there they can serve as bait and lure in more dryad mages and snarren for some nuking goodness.
No. 30681 ID: 15b51b

My idea was to drag things out for the expressed purpose of getting like 10,000 refugees. Then spend a few years training all of them as workers.

10,000 dudes is worth 200 clone-tank-months. And they're all naturally as strong as minstr cyborgs.
No. 30699 ID: 1854db

Yeah 10k dudes is niiiiiice. I just hope we can actually house them, and our humans won't treat them like shit.
No. 30700 ID: 15b51b

If we can actually get them aboard and survive long enough to get the UC colony finished, then it should be fine. With those 2400 new workers, we should be able to support a pop of 30k in comfort.

Of course, if we start throwing nukes around, or if we get our colony flattened before we can leave, then it'll all go to shit, but that's out of my hands.
No. 30717 ID: 47c18a

this is still based on the very aloof fact that they WOULD adapt to our lifestyle and that the number of spies will be somehow manageable.

give up on such a huge number. we may get a insignifcant number of them, less that 1k, and still have issues with adaptation
No. 30898 ID: 9ea6ca

Long term planning. Assuming we get out of this mess we are going to need a lot of things to ensure this doesn't happen again.

1. Superheavy tanks. The enemy we face can field units even our MBTs have trouble with. Solution? Build a bigger tank! Design aims to have AT LEAST dual heavy weapon capacity.
2. Up-armour package for existing MBTs. Large ablative plates for added protection, concentrated mostly on the front. Some mobility loss, but can be ejected at any time.
3. Heavy Dropship. Newer bigger transports couldn't hurt. The increase in armour would allow them to land troops safely and the cargo capacity would allow them to carry superheavy vehicles. We need these anyways for evacuation and heavy industry.
4. Melee upgrade for power armoured infantry. Swords/axes etc are impractical. A set of punch daggers would not interfere with any other equipment and are small enough to retrofit into existing PA. Formalize boxing based fighting style.
5. Design powered exoskeletons/exo-armour. This would equate to miniaturized power armour for light infantry/commandos. Civilian models would add the strength implant characteristic, without the risk.
6. MLRS vehicles are great, but accuracy leaves something to be desired. Design smarter missiles (at a corresponding increase in cost). As well as infantry/BRIC portable spotting systems.
7. Refine our UAV design towards two ends. One would be a ground attack UAV designed to hug the terrain by flying at low altitude. Using high speed to keep it safe from AA attacks. Second design would be a high altitude scout and spotter UAV.
8. Redesign existing gunship to use vectored thrust instead of rotors. Same general capabilities but highly increased agility. (which should aid survival)
9. Mine/drone deployment missiles for MLRS system. We currently lack large scale area denial systems.

In terms of space endeavors.
1. Design a modular purpose-built freighter. A container ship essentially, for transporting large quantities of resources. Modules can be used as cargo space, or refitted into living quarters and building equivalents. They are designed to be as easy to reconfigure as possible to reduce cost.
2. Design a mobile orbital factory that can fold up and move as a starship. To save space it can store no resources and must be linked to freighters in order to function.
3. Come up with plans to enable asteroid mining.
4. Design railgun bombardment ship for pinpoint orbital fire support. Hopefully frigate sized. Mounting multiple redundant systems and replacement barrels.

This would give our spacefleet the capacity to sustain our total population while bringing everything we need with us. The bombardment frigates are designed as such because the carrier can't be everywhere at once.
No. 30901 ID: 2dd482

>7. Refine our UAV design towards two ends. One would be a ground attack UAV designed to hug the terrain by flying at low altitude. Using high speed to keep it safe from AA attacks. Second design would be a high altitude scout and spotter UAV.

While I agree we need better UAV's, low altitude is not the way to go. We have that already and they get shot down super easily and are expensive to replace. High speed is not what you want in a ground-attack craft; You want long loiter time over the target and less time constantly maneuvering to get back to the target after you blew past it.

But first of all before we redesign any of our UAVs, do we not have any sort of guided missile/smart bomb capability? Why aren't we mounting smart bombs on high altitude UAV's and using them to attack dyrad positions with presicion? The current situation is that the dyrads are "too spread out for bombing runs". I assume this is conventional dumb-bomb carpet bombing. But why are we still using that?

If the dyrads are SO spread out that even precision strikes will only get a couple of them, why are we even worried about attacks? Even with their portals it would take a hell of a long time to get a strong enough force together for a credible attacks seeing as how, being a primitive culture technology wise, it's a safe bet they lack field communications.
No. 30913 ID: 15b51b

>Why aren't we mounting smart bombs on high altitude UAV's
They don't exist, nor do sensors to guide them from high altitude. The UAVs have to fly low enough to be shot down in order to direct fire, either from themselves or other sources.
No. 30930 ID: 2563d4

>Massive lab is resistant to escape and hides research from the general populace underground
I heard you like herbivorous bunny girls, so I put a facility in your TBS so you can quest while you quest.
No. 30938 ID: 199491

Okay hang on here.

1-2) Ablative armor would be positively wonderful. Let's make that. But we do not need superheavy tanks. The bigger you make them, the less return you're going to get for the cost.
4-5) We do not plan on having infantry going into melee combat against Snarren or Dryads at this or any future point. These upgrades would be too late and too little.
6) MRLS are plenty accurate as they are. The problem is having any groupings of enemies to target in the first place.
7-8) I don't think flying works that way. Vectored thrust gives you greater speed for the same lift, not maneuverability. Fast UAVs have the problem Test and Anon pointed out.
9) That could work.
1) Isn't that what they are already?
2) I'd love this, but I don't think Ed intends on letting us have it anytime soon.
3) Already on that, chief.
4) You don't need to waste space on frigates for that. You could just make an array of satellites to do that, but do we really need to be chewing up MORE SC?
No. 30941 ID: 2dd482

So let's research them. Massive oversight right there.
No. 30950 ID: 18aeca

2. id rather increase their mobility. as power infantry, they stand in a role that doesnt exist, compared to a light vehicle that isnt fast or a medium vehicle that isnt armored and doesnt pack a punch.

4. power armor and vibroblades. ideally knives are ideal, but we can work with other compact weapons. axes are somewhat good if we can give them a 2 hand grip, and are more favored to cut armor that swords. another idea would be bucklers to try not to encumber the soldiers. this should also be cheap enought to be worthwhile.

5. why not "portable" power armor? something in the terms of a smaller BRIC, to empower weapons and carry extra armor.

6. the spotting system may be exactly what we are looking for. it could even help the UAVs to hit from orbiting range.
No. 30952 ID: f6360f

Then maybe we should be researching high-resolution observer satellites instead of mucking about with UAVs at all.
No. 30954 ID: 15b51b

>So let's research them.
They'll just cost more SC, and we STILL won't be able to guide them from a safe altitude!

Plus, right now the main problem is that we don't have enough firepower. Smart bombs won't really help that.
>Then maybe we should be researching high-resolution observer satellites instead of mucking about with UAVs at all.
If we don't have cameras good enough to spot targets from 10,000 feet, what makes you think we can make a satellite to spot them from 100 miles?
No. 30956 ID: 9ea6ca

Reworking list based on feedback:

1. A superheavy tank isn't designed to be more cost effective than deploying two MBTs. The point is to carry so much armour that it could survive hits that an MBT could not.
2. We need ablative armour in general. Up-armour packages could potentially apply to every military asset we have. Everything from light infantry to city walls. We already have advanced knowledge of ceramics and we are starting to discover alien alloys. I'm sure we could figure something out.
3. Design 2 new dropships. A combat dropship for direct landings into hotzones. And a pure transport dropship without armour or weapons for freight and passengers.
4. The melee upgrade for infantry is not intended to give us melee capable troops. We already know our soldiers can kill snarren by punching them really hard. So why not allow them to punch snarren really hard with sharp objects? Think of them the way you would a knife, not a sword. An upgraded weapon of last resort.
5. Str upgrades should be standard for all infantry anyway. Our implant process is still risky. Exoskeletons would cost more, but allow us to bypass that risk as well as "retrofit" soldiers and civilians.
6. We NEED a better array of spotting systems period, not just for MLRS and UAVs. Infrared and thermal sights. High powered optics etc. This is well within Earth technology. And don't our ships have some of this capability already? We might be able to miniaturize some stuff.
7. Okay scrap the attack UAV idea, we already have one. Focus on making a stealthy high altitude UAV. Add glider functionality to increase "hang time" and make it quiet. This goes hand in hand with better spotting systems.
8. I get your point, but vectored thrust can make a craft do things that would make a helicopter or jet stall. This upgrade would be pointless if increased maneuverability didn't translate into increased pilot survival.
9. Look into making cluster/MIRV/mine/drone munitions to outfit existing MLRS.
10. Design a high altitude long-ranged fire support gunship that can provide overwatch support. Think AC130. We would need optics to make this work.

1. As I understand it our current freighters are just hollowed out frigates. I'm sure we could come up with something better if we specifically designed a ship for the task. Our current freighters are capable of transporting everything we own. But they can't do so with enough luxury to keep everyone happy.

A simple design would be a block of engines. Modules could then be stacked on top like a jenga tower. They could contain whatever we wanted to put in them. The only limit being engine power. Example: (27 seconds in, awesome game btw)


2. Mobile shipyards should be filed away under "far future when we require mass space assets". It would get really annoying if we had to scrap our factories every time we relocate. This would also allow us to manufacture stuff in deep space where we are unlikely to be discovered. Alternate idea: Retrofit existing Carrier with some orbital factory capability. If we had freighters to carry bulk cargo, we could use some of that space for something else.
4. Satellites would work great. I really hope one of these days we will stop by one of those SC rich planets that keep teasing us...
No. 30959 ID: 2ee9f4

>Massive Lab
>Resistant to damage and infiltration/escape. Can hide research and assorted other secrets from general populace in here
I'm getting some pretty strong Umbrella Corp. vibes here :D
No. 30963 ID: 9ea6ca

Well at least next time no angry civilians will go and whack Breaker prisoners.

On the issue of upgrading the gunship. I almost forgot that our current design has a little infantry transport capability. I feel that we should design a second gunship with the extra seats removed.

At the very least the newer gunship would have increased speed and agility thanks to the reduced size and weight. All of the enemy AA used so far is capable of swatting gunships out of the sky with a single hit. So the emphasis should be on avoiding danger. Vectored thrust could be a bonus in this regard. And passengers would not appreciate the flips and dodges you could do with it.
No. 30964 ID: aa5626

1 and 2. we have been long needing a better defense system. instead of a localized solution, lets try to find a actualy effective armor or shield.
4. maybe, we kinda have to think in future engangements. id rather have a vibroblade of sort researched now before we discover more snarren got better shields and now we cant plasma them because the explosive effect may hurt the soldiers.
5. research implants will fix that, along with pod clones not having that issue. i really liked the idea of power armor, but this sounds redundant with the implants.
6. meh. we should indeed try to find a engineering solution to orbital bombing. how about camera/radio guided bombs? its better that hoping for plenty of SC or forcing for a optic system that was already refused by ed.
7. no. UAVs use radio to communicate with the base. a stealth type would be impossible, but a UAV that could reach orbital capatibility by itself sounds useful, even if to transverse to the target in peace. kinda like a ICBM for small projectiles? deploy one from a base and reach anywhere on the planet and/or moons.
8. VTOL allows for landing anywhere, so soldiers can make a clearance and have a makeshift airport real quick. vectorial trhust isnt that great by itself, only when you add a element of surprise you can use that dogfight buff, also you cant dodge what you dont know of. we could as well add anti-missile turrents. something that launches grenades towards incoming projectiles, its more likely to work.
9. passive means of area denial so far are pretty much weak. we have all of those drones, and they suck either because they fail or they are weak. how about a deployable drone master, with control over several deployable turrents to peform area denial? it would work like a MBT but with several radio controlled turrents.
10. you mean orbital. we could do this with radio guided bombs.
No. 30982 ID: 9ea6ca

1-2. Shield tech is probably a dead end, unless we can capture intact examples or figure out how they work. If magic is what makes it tick then we would be out of luck. Researching breaker shields would involve fighting and capturing higher ranked prisoners. Not an optimal solution (though probably inevitable).
4. I still think larger melee weapons are a dead end. Vibrotech is a good thing to have in general. But only to upgrade combat knives and the proposed arm blades.

I think we are missing the obvious solution. Did a big trench and fill it with barbed wire. In front of that set up large rows of sharpened stakes facing out. That should delay them long enough for us to bring enough plasma to bear. Any Snarren jumping over or trying to hide in the trench are easy to deal with. Torch em with fusion casters, or even better, fill the trench with beardy bobs!
5. Better and safer implants would render light power armour/power lifters obsolete. But if Ed will allow it I still think we should pursue this line of research. It could lead to all sorts of secondary applications. And it would also provide a firm groundwork for alien power armour/implants for our Nautiloid, Gester and Dryad allies who can't use most of our existing tech.
7. I still think stealth UAVs could work. It must be possible to fly high enough to avoid detection. Just knowing something is in the sky doesn't mean you can shoot it down. Dryads don't have radar, radio triangulation or even binoculars.
8. My point still stands though. Even if it wouldn't give us a huge advantage over our current enemy. We need to be constantly upgrading our assets.
9. Mines are super cheap and you can dump them EVERYWHERE. They would solve our snarren problem in a snap if we had enough of them. We could even phone it in on the design front and just mass produce Beardy Bobs without legs and scatter them all over the ground. What now poodles?

Our drones suck pretty hard I agree. The one exception is the Beardy Bob. But we need to be smarter about deploying them. Have them hide in pit traps or climb trees and drop when they detect an enemy.

For ranged combat I think we should dump the legged designs and make mini-tanks with tracks. Instead of a legged drone with a poorly aimed rifle or a spider drone with a pistol. We could probably make a mini tank with dual rifles.

For added effectiveness you could supplement the AI with remote control. Perhaps from a human operator in a nearby APC?
10. The problem with orbital railgun strikes and bombs in general is that they are almost useless against a well spread out enemy. The reason I suggested the gunship was that it can linger and suppress a much larger zone. If the enemy is spread over an area the size of a football field. An orbital strike would just leave a crater while a gunship could suppress the whole area. Keeping the enemy pinned or destroying them outright.
No. 30983 ID: 15b51b

>Our drones suck pretty hard I agree. The one exception is the Beardy Bob.
I disagree. They're super expensive and can kill a max of one snarren.
5 Beardy Bobs cost as much SC as a Starmaker bomb.
No. 30987 ID: 57537a

mines cant shoot up, and they can be avoided. a turrent would need to be destroyed in order to pass on the area.

a moot or a trench could work if we manage to make them quic enougth. maybe a vehicle that can quickly dig and lay spikes while dropping oil/napalm on the bottom of the trench
No. 30993 ID: 9ea6ca

>I disagree. They're super expensive and can kill a max of one snarren.
>5 Beardy Bobs cost as much SC as a Starmaker bomb.

Well true enough. But 5 Beardy Bobs deployed in the right manner could potentially achieve a 5-5 kill rate. Starmakers are powerful but have they been achieving a 1-5 ratio? From the description of combat around the anomaly the snarren know not to bunch up. I don't know the exact blast radius to calculate by.

Mines can certainly shoot up. Even up into the sky. An anti gunship mine could take the form of a missile tube buried in the ground. It just depends on the design.

Even cheap and simple pressure mines could do the trick. You don't even need to bury them, just scatter them all over your perimeter. The more time a snarren takes to watch where he puts his feet, the more time we have to gun him down. And if he steps on one, well GG for him. All it would take is a little metal.

You can get much more complicated than that of course, but that would require SC, which is in horribly short supply.
No. 30996 ID: 15b51b

>Starmakers are powerful but have they been achieving a 1-5 ratio?
If they aren't, then we're utterly wasting our time.
No. 31022 ID: 15b51b

>This entirely eliminates the need for personal cars which are inefficient on resources.
Are they, really?
No. 31023 ID: 9ea6ca

True, the only real problem with the starmakers is if a large concentration of enemies makes it close enough to or forces. The kill ratio becomes meaningless because we would not be able to deploy them. That is why I suggested the other defensive measure (arm blades, mines etc).

The fighting near the anomaly was a special case. Defending Ryxyx will not involve close jungle fights, or indeed much cover at all. Starmakers are clearly more efficient in this case.

I have some other ideas for the civil side of things.

1. Underground warehouses.
Warehouses are basically an empty rooms and a forklift. Thought it would increase building time and use more material for internal supports it would allow us to put warehouses underneath other structures. This would allow for more compact city layouts. Strengthening our defensive perimeter by making it smaller. As well as easing the transportation problem a bit. They could also double as emergency shelters.

In any case I think we should also store the majority of our spare resources up in orbit. This would allow us to build less warehouses in general.

2. Rush building construction.
Earlier someone mentioned rushing construction at the cost of extra resources and Ed added a tech for 40RP. I second the suggestion, and it was mentioned at the time that it didn't make much sense. The wasted resources could be explained by inefficiency. Careful work preserves as much material as possible so it can be used on later projects. With rush building, speed is paramount. So not only would the building cost more. But you would also receive less when recycling it.

I don't see this being used very often for civil structures. But it would be very useful for erecting turrets and walls. Or to alleviate a bottleneck in production.
No. 31024 ID: 9ea6ca

His words not mine. Though I agree they are an avoidable use of resources. IE a waste. We should try to save everything we can just in case things come down to the wire in the future. If SHTF (which is entirely possible) we may need to cut and run.

We would lose the morale boost sure. But I suspect that it came from being able to get to your destination faster. Which a transit system could take care of easily.
No. 31025 ID: 15b51b

But we already have the cars built. They're paid for, and don't use an appreciable amount of fuel. Why should we care about replacing them? Especially right now with kajillions of bulletproof aliens descending to kill us all?

Don't rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
No. 31027 ID: 9ea6ca

I know. But replacing cars with with a transit system would only happen once we establish a NEW main city. We don't have the opportunity to shift buildings and roads around at Ryxix, so its a moot point for now. But still something to keep in mind for the future.

And if we run out of space while evacuating ground cars are probably the first thing I would throw overboard.
No. 31256 ID: 2563d4

Guys, can we back off on fiddling with damn hippie public transport fantasies? There's a war on you know.

Cars in this have a setup cost and no running cost. Public transport as Ed has specced has a setup cost and no running cost (plus an extra setup cost to research in the first place). This is not a thing to be dealing with right now.
No. 31258 ID: 15b51b

If orbital-capable things start coming out of the portal, we're probably screwed. So let's hope the war's over...

>It might not give us a huge bonus right away but we can expand on it in a multitude of ways.
Such as...?

I don't really see how it will ever give us any benefit.
No. 31294 ID: 9ea6ca

This isn't Master of Orion. You don't need to min-max everything. Especially when you can't see the dice. 5 research points is PEANUTS. Medium Buildings costed twice that much.

>I don't really see how it will ever give us any benefit

Then you need to think like a colonist.

For instance, did any of you ever wonder just how our colonists got to work? Back before we had cars they must have walked. And even now when we do have cars, that still means an airlock on both ends. To say nothing of the risk of suffocation and DEATH thanks to the unbreathable atmosphere.

Now compare that to walking down some stairs (without a suit), riding a train, walking up some stairs and being at work. Not only would this get you to work in less than half the time. But it would be a lot more comfortable. If you happened to have a heart attack while on the train. It could just keep going until it reached the hospital.

Negative morale among our colonists is something we need to avoid at all costs because it is a penalty to EVERYTHING. So why not invest a little of our resources into something that would get your entire population to work with speed, comfort and safety?

If you really wanted to. I'm sure Ed would let you persuade him that having an efficient rapid transit system could translate into a blanket 5% bonus to production in all sectors.
No. 31470 ID: 98cfd9
File 129819183226.png - (16.68KB , 524x571 , Light Infantry.png )

I'll set the costs and bonuses for the various improvements in the game myself. The mass transit idea right now will only affect the need to make new cars and a small morale boost, for now. On planets like Gretz, only a small rebreather is needed for the populace to move about outside of the buildings, and on completely airless planets there are tunnels connecting the buildings (factored in by the increased construction time on those planets). Transportation has not been a major problem for the citizens of the Splinter at this point.

Also, since I haven't updated in a while I feel like I should post a little something to fluff out the world of The Icon. I probably will do things like this again whenever there is a lull in the updates (and I have time).

Light Infantry: The Light Infantry form the backbone of the Splinter armed forces; its brave men and women valiantly defending the last refuge of humanity with unyielding determination, rigorous training and advanced technology.

Being descendants of Pre-Demise Earth's innumerable factions of footslogging infantrymen, the Light Infantry have the ability to excel in a wide variety of combat situations. They are flexible and, when combined with a Dropship, APC or other vehicle for transport, are extremely mobile.

The LI's divide into small 6-10 man squads when sent into conflict, each led by a sergeant.

The LI are equipped with bullet and shrapnel resistant ceramic body armor and helmet. Their rebreather-goggle combo contains heat/infrared vision capabilities, a powerful communication set, connection to a tactical network and emergency drug administration systems.

Their standard issue weapon is the SIMAR109, a highly customizable assault rifle that excels in taking out all forms of infantry, with specialized squad members given various other weapons to help them deal with other targets: missile launchers, grenade launchers, sniper rifles, automatic shotguns and heavy machineguns. LI with light strength augmentations prefer to use the CMMG290 machine gun in place of the SIMAR, and heavily augmented soldiers lug around the heavy ARC5 minigun instead. Breaker blaster weapons have also been used by the LI to good effect, but despite their effectiveness they are not popular among the soldiery, being tools invented by mankind's most hated enemy. The new plasma carbines are infinitely more popular, not only being more powerful but also a proud example of ingenious and vicious human engineering. Light Infantry have the ability to construct basic field defenses to fortify vital positions if necessary.

The main drawback of the Light Infantry is their fragility and inability to move rapidly without vehicular support, as well as being unable to counter heavily armored vehicles and most aircraft. They also can be flummoxed by the strange new supernatural forces that are currently mobilizing to oppose mankind.

In terms of other species, the LI remains a human-dominated organization. The Nautil are physically unfit for line infantry and thus extremely rare within its ranks. The Gesters found on Ithaka have made interesting, though not particularly useful additions to the Light Infantry. Their tentacles are ill-suited for most firearms, and as such are relegated to tasks such as melee combat, deploying equipment or throwing explosives. The Dryads, on the other hand, appear to be promising candidates for induction into the Light Infantry. They, on average, have less knack for using firearms as compared to humans, but are strong and can sometimes make up for lack of accuracy by simply carrying a bigger gun and throwing more bullets.
No. 31605 ID: 6a9fdc

We definitely need to improve the research speed of our scientists. Front loading improved research speeds results in a great shortening of the resulting tech trees, whereas boosting research late is pretty worthless. The sooner we get improved research the more it will pay for itself over and over by the end.
No. 31637 ID: 9ea6ca

>The mass transit idea right now will only affect the need to make new cars and a small morale boost, for now. On planets like Gretz, only a small rebreather is needed for the populace to move about outside of the buildings, and on completely airless planets there are tunnels connecting the buildings (factored in by the increased construction time on those planets). Transportation has not been a major problem for the citizens of the Splinter at this point.
Cool, when I originally suggested this idea I was thinking ahead to the future. Barring disaster our population will do nothing but grow. Once our colonies reach an inefficient size we will need measures like this to help speed things along. To say nothing of integrating things like underground warehouses and emergency shelters and the like.

As well if you combined it with heavy automation. We could potentially design much safer and smaller mining outposts. Important when your home is the ass-end of volcanic nowhere. (But superconductor rich).

>Also, since I haven't updated in a while I feel like I should post a little something to fluff out the world of The Icon.
When you get around to it, can we get some more info on how Gesters and Dryads measure up to Humans and Nautiloids in terms of physical capability? Its possible that we could design equipment to help each race fill a niche in our military.
No. 32921 ID: 35cea2
File 129964898351.png - (14.29KB , 524x571 , Commando.png )

The Commandos:
Commandos are the best soldiers mankind has to offer. They undertake missions where stealth and expertise are required rather than brute force.

The Commando Corps of the Splinter was formed from various elite black ops agents of the United States government, and thus shares many of its characteristics. It is secretive, poorly understood by the general populace, staffed by the most elite soldiers available and uses practices that many would consider dishonorable and immoral.

Commando training is notoriously vicious, with the regimen killing a few cadets with every class. All inductees are volunteers, and are made full aware of the massive risk they take when undergoing the ruthless process to be made into Commandos. The result of this type of training produces the ultimate soldier: a pinnacle of fitness, skilled with virtually every weapon available, able to move almost anywhere without being detected and fearing nothing but disobeying an order.

The Commandos are equipped for stealth and mobility rather than sheer firepower or defense. They wear a suit of basic thermo-optic camouflage that makes them much more difficult to spot. Their basic armaments are the AMARR1, a miniature automatic railgun that can penetrate virtually all forms of infantry armor, and a silenced XM421 semi-automatic pistol. They can equip themselves with all light infantry weapons as well, if the mission calls for it. In addition, they carry demolition charges when sabotage is the order of the day, and a variety of non-lethal weapons if they need to take hostages alive. They can drive most vehicles, barring interceptors, bombers and dropships, though are not recommended to be used as such since they are not much more skilled than standard vehicle pilots compared to their increased investment.

They work best when undetected, without less-stealthy vehicles and infantry fighting alongside them to give away their position. They are extremely skilled in all forms of infantry combat, from sniping to firefights to hand-to-hand combat, but should still be kept away from heated firefights to reduce the risk of losing their very valuable lives.

Nautil can join the Commandos, where their small size and inability to use firearms give them an entirely different role to their human counterparts. As of now, the Commandos are not accepting other aliens into its ranks. This is part due to security reasons, and part due to xenophobia in the ranks of the Commandos.

Despite their methods, the Commandos are generally well respected by the civilians and very well respected by the rest of the military. The aliens inducted into the Splinter understand them little, and thus tend to either fear them or ignore them. The Commandos themselves, despite being robotically precise and professional during active duty, are still very much human and retain their personality in spite of the horrors of war and training they must endure.

The nautil are very weak and are unable to utilize any sort of firearm without the help of powered armor. Their tentacles are highly agile and thus make skilled vehicle pilots. Their resistance to higher pressures and forces give them an extra edge when piloting aircraft.

The Gesters are not quite as skillful with their tentacles as the Nautil, but are much larger and stronger. A tough Gester can break a man's arm with a single tentacle. They are unskilled at climbing difficult terrain as a result of evolving on a mostly treeless planet. Their eyesight covers 360 degrees, but is not as acute as human sight.

The Dryads are very strong for their body mass, the average Dryad being about as tough as a MinStrength upgraded human cyborg. On average, they are a surefooted species and are unintimidated by the roughest of terrain. Their four eyes allow them an increased field of vision, though their depth perception suffers somewhat. They generally make poorer marksmen than humans, though better than Gesters. How their mages managed to be such a threat to our military vehicles still eludes most scientists, though a popular hypothesis assumes that their uncanny accuracy was a mechanic of the spell itself rather than their own skills.
No. 32938 ID: 9ea6ca

Cool stuff. If you get a chance, some info on our power armoured troops would be neat. Namely how their equipment and deployment changes compared to light infantry.

Its been mentioned a couple times that UAV tech seems to be a dead end. But Nautil pilots would allow you to construct a small craft without any need for remote control. Without that broadcasted signal and active scanners, the craft would be silent and almost invisible at high altitudes. That would make for a great scouting platform that also doubles as a spotter for other vehicles and its own guided missiles. Whether or not it would be any more effecting than the current version would need some testing.

They won't have the technical aptitude needed for a long time. But the 360 degree awareness of Gesters might be handy for vehicle drivers. Tanks in particular. Most of the ground vehicles we lose have been destroyed during ambushes and convoys. Poor natural vision can be easily supplemented by electronic aids.
No. 33999 ID: 3dfc07
File 130077346804.png - (18.81KB , 524x571 , Power Trooper.png )

Power Troopers:
Populating the gap between vehicle and standard infantry, the Power Troopers serve in situations that require more force than storming by Light Infantry but more finesse than a vehicular blitz.

The PT's wear the MkIII "Orion" powered armor. It is covered in heavy ceramic plates that can deflect most small arms fire, and shrapnel and shockwaves from heavy weapons as well as buffer against intense heat or cold. The armor cannot stop direct hits from heavier munitions such as autocannon fire or extremely intense plasma-gun heat, and has a few weak points in the legs, arms and helmet that can be pierced by standard ammunition. Underneath the armor they wear a sensor-filled jumpsuit that enables the power armor to move just as dexterously as if they were wearing light armor.

With the advanced motors and hydraulics in the armor, the PT's can easily lug around light vehicle weapons. The two most popular weapons is the classic ARC5 minigun and the new ATLAS light plasma cannons. They are less apt to use special weapons as the Light Infantry or Commandos, but still have the option to carry around missile launchers, flamethrowers or heavy melee equipment. All PTs also carry a PIPS2 Canister Pistol; a huge, semi-automatic pistol that fires shotgun shells with enough force to break a normal man's arm. If all else fails, they can use their massive strength to decapitate enemy infantry with a single punch or hurl objects weighing half a ton tens of meters.

Tactically, they are most similar to standard infantry. They can storm buildings, take cover and move with similar speed. They excel against other light infantry due to their resistance to most small weapons and weapons that generally fare best against weaker enemies. Their disadvantages is their lack of subtlety, they cannot move anywhere without giving their position due to their lumbering profile and noisy armor. In addition, their equipment requires a good deal of maintenance and can't conduct unsupported missions that the other infantry types are able to do.

The stereotypical Power Trooper is a reckless, bloodthirsty glory-hound, actively drawing enemy attention and fire to himself in order to bring more targets into his crosshairs. While most troopers follow explicit orders perfectly well, the Power Troopers seem more eager to engage in direct combat and less willing to retreat than most other infantry. While most of humanity is relatively spite following the demise of Earth, it is the Power Troopers who take those attributes to their highly intimidating extremes. Many squads of troopers have been known to engage in savage practices such as tropy-collecting or warpaint made of the enemy's blood. Officers try to discourage such actions in situations where eventual cooperation with an enemy is possibility, but otherwise tend to look away.

The enemies of the Splinter appear to think the PTs are nobles or of the ruling class, likely due to their raw power. In conflicts there are often a few inexperienced enemies who believe that we follow similar patterns of honor and try to engage these troopers in one-to-one combat to gain personal glory. The general response is to disintegrate them with a surge of gunfire when they break cover. Their tendency to engage in barbaric behavior can intimidate enemy forces, though hardened soldiers are unaffected by whatever fears they may have.

As with the rest of the military, the general Splinter populace regards Power Troopers as heroes. The ruthless practices that some of the PT's revel in are simply seen as acts of bloody justice. The aliens that join the Splinter tend to be more disgusted with such practices.

Like the other branches of the military, the PT's are predominantly human. There a few Nautil who pilot humanoid suits a third smaller than a human suit, making them actually quite similar to human PTs, if a little bit clumsy and stealthy. In order for the Dryads or Gesters to even access Power Trooper training, a DESIGN NEW VEHICLE/BUILDING research must be taken to develop a suitable power suit for them (8 RP each)
No. 34214 ID: e6032b

this is why W got elected twice =c
No. 34314 ID: 0a6f51

i disagree, there is such thing as a wrong choice, even if it is just a difficulty increase.

the last war seems to have been made on the grounds that we choosed/found the wrong planet to colonize.
No. 34335 ID: 1854db

Guys that are voting for the Vanilla Commander:

This could be a chance to narrow the focus of our decisions. A big, big flaw in our plans previous to this moment was the scope. We couldn't all agree whether we wanted to be nice or mean to the aliens. We kept trying to do everything at once, stretching our resources thin.

Restrictions are good. It turns a hammer into a spear.
No. 34337 ID: 15b51b

>We couldn't all agree whether we wanted to be nice or mean to the aliens.
We've decided to be nice every time. The Dryads declared allegiance to the guy who blew up the earth and we were still relatively nice to them. (Not-nice under that circumstance would have looked like a sustained nuclear bombardment) And now several thousand of them work for us. Ideally.

...with that in mind, Karras is probably the best choice. I just worry about the slower shipbuilding. Shipbuilding is kinda important when we're permanently on the run from Breakers.

(We can try to stand and fight, which again requires ships, but if we win then they'll just keep throwing guys at us until we lose, so we have to keep running.)
No. 34341 ID: 2563d4

Another reason to like General Jack D. Ripper Wing Commander Radomir Voronova; he turns that -30% into a +30%.
>His belief is that mankind remains completely mobile to avoid unnecessary combat. When combat becomes necessary, his belief is to respond from a safe distance with an unrelenting storm of nuclear ordinance.
But it just won't work with our current tree-hugging philosophy.
No. 34342 ID: 0a6f51

we need the tree hugging diplomacy. the cost to nuke the bonk out of a civilization is greater that the cost of simply befrieding them.

it worked well for all the races we found except 2, and one of them found US. we will eventually turn to space battles, but right now we need to make sure we dont have spíes among the dryads. the lost in space faring capatibility can be ammended later on, or even right now with the increase in infrastructure.
No. 34345 ID: 5f0943

There is actually a pretty simple way to make the 30%- penalty sting less.
Research massive Orbital Factory, since it seems that all building seem to keep a trend for tripling their output the larger the size.

The Standard orbital factory had 3BP with a max assist of 9bp.
The larger orbital factory has a BP of 9 with a max assist of 27.
If the trend follows, a massive orbital factory would have a BP of 27, with an assist of 81, for a total BP of 108.

With the penalty applied, that bring it down to 75,6 BP.
At that speed, it would be possible to build even a Battleship in no more than 40 turns (though it would be very resource intensive at that speed), or a destroyer in 8 turns, or a cruiser in 12.
No. 34346 ID: 1854db

Oh, I know that we decided overall to be nice to them, it's just that there was more than a bit of dissension.
No. 34348 ID: 2563d4

>avoiding unnecessary combat
The idea isn't to hunt down and genocide everyone. The idea is to stay away from most of them (admittedly that looks like somewhat of a tech shift to stop leaning on ground facilities so hard) so we don't get drawn into slugging wars with infinite-respawn portals, and to respond to anything that still starts trouble by nuking the bejeezus out of it before it can escalate.
No. 34362 ID: 0a6f51

it just sounds so paradoxal to try to avoid war by immediately anihilating threats.

i agree that a space colony of some sort would really be ideal, but we are far from that. we barely have constant resource income.

i actualy had a point to make because i noticed that the dryad spies are convinced we are their doom. hunting them down is still the right thing to do, but we should try to sway the most we can to our side, showing we are a understanding, helping species et al.
No. 34363 ID: 2563d4

>it just sounds so paradoxal to try to avoid war by immediately anihilating threats.
Well I think Test's way better read in the area, but that's pretty conventional military strategy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_Awe#Historical_applications
No. 34364 ID: 34930b

>nuke them
>show them we are an understanding species

I do not suggest in this quest, but do I love to read your plans and foils? I friggin do. Never change, guys.
No. 34382 ID: 15b51b

If we want shock and awe, we want Karras, not Voronova. He's optimized towards destroying enemy morale, defeating insurgencies, etc.

Like it says right on the box. Voronova is "Annihilation." Karras is "Subjugation."

I'd be a lot more oriented towards Voronova if we had the ability to thrive on ships alone.

I'd like to stress that none of the options are outright bad, (except Metzger due to how genetic engineering is worthless) but it's only Karras (and Dwight, obviously) who fit with our current MO. Choosing Segale means shifting our strategy towards an egalitarian something or other of alien races. Not necessarily a bad idea, but I'm not thrilled with it, because eventually the Breakers are going to find us every time, and we can't beat them save with a biological weapon which we won't be allowed to use.

Voronova means avoiding all aliens, fleeing from airless rock to airless rock, and responding to all enemies with overwhelming nuclear power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_retaliation (this didn't work out so great for the US, but our situation's different)
No. 34383 ID: 15b51b

Sorry to multipost, but I'd like to add that Karras won't be particularly useful unless we end up in another situation similar to our last one. It's tempting to pick him because he'd have been very useful two years ago, but if we really do end up fleeing from airless rock to airless rock (such as the one we just fled to) then his bonuses won't really help us out. (except to root out dryad spies, which is a potentially serious but inherently temporary problem)

tl;dr: I dunno lol
No. 34386 ID: 28e94e

Dwight is pretty much the only intelligent option. Segale will be a liability if we ever have to get in another drawn-out conflict, Karras will be utterly useless if there's nobody to fight, if we encounter a neutral race then Voronova is a liability, and Metzger is just terrible no matter what. Dwight has no cons, so there's no real penalty for quickly changing strategies, which we WILL need to do if we want to survive.
No. 34395 ID: 0a6f51

its not like we were actualy willing to nuke them. we tried every freaking form of diplomacy, including giving gifts in exchange for nothing.

in a diplomatic point of view thats a horrible PR nightmare.

"dude its ok, we are your friends, so if one day we wake up with guns blazing in your house to put your family and you in a concentration camp, we are doing it for the best of our own needs."

i just cant see it working. who would be willing to have this as a ally?
No. 34398 ID: 259738

And he is a Nautil!
No. 34400 ID: 2563d4

>who would be willing to have this as a ally?
Well, the UK for one... :V

But seriously, Test's last paragraph covers what I'm trying to convey: >>344182 Allies don't really come into it either, just "don't try anything on us or we will not hold back on completely wrecking your shit". Kind of like a space-jellyfish!
No. 34401 ID: 2563d4

(Also, while discussing this is an entertaining enough distraction, it's worth noting my vote was for Espionage guy anyway. I just can't see us ever getting the critical mass of votes to nuke early and often thus leaving Radomir's only advantage as the +30% orbital. The running really does seem to be down to Spah Sapping Mah Morale vs Generic Everyman. Uh. Everynautil.)
No. 34405 ID: 07416a

I don't believe in the spahs and I think we can easily counter the morale disadvantage. Science! for president.
No. 34415 ID: 1854db

Guys. One major point in Karras' favor: Chemical weapons, once researched, could be built FOREVER.
No. 34481 ID: 549ff5
File 130160280815.png - (160.74KB , 1154x2480 , Tech tree.png )

No. 34485 ID: 549ff5
File 130160568990.png - (272.40KB , 2972x1924 , Master Spreadsheet Nightmare.png )

Spreadsheet itself:

-Ceramics has been removed as a resource. The Metal cost of things is raised to compensate. The IMPROVED CERAMICS PRODUCTION research instead increases building damage resistance. Fuel and Uranium have been merged as a resource. Uranium derricks extract Fuel now, and anything that required Uranium to build now requires fuel instead.
-Most soldiers who fight in battles now have a chance to become elite versions of themselves: Light Infantry become NADIR Operatives, Power Troopers become Apex Troopers, Commandos become Nightmares and Vehicle Crew become Phantasms
-NADIR Operatives have stealth and are better scouts. They can execute paradrops, and are slightly more skilled in combat than standard LI.
-Apex Troopers carry several backup weapons, allowing them to adapt to virtually any enemy barring the heaviest of enemy armor, elite stealth units or high-altitude aircraft.
-Phantasms make their piloted Gunships and APCs stealthed. All other vehicles are more adept at avoiding enemy fire.
-Commandos become Nightmares. They are exceptionally rare, but are capable of pulling off the most dangerous missions with minimal risk.
-Commandos have a lower death rate in training. They remain the unmatched special operations soldiers they were previously.
-Crewmen take 18 turns to train
-Drones no longer need command centers to operate and are buffed. Test Patterns are more expensive, but fly very high and are now extremely difficult to shoot down, and can now also act as an anti-air unit (though much weaker than an Interceptor). Slowpokes are now very expensive, but are super-heavy tanks that bear twin-linked Heavy weapons. They can take more damage than an MBT and have more firepower, but are very slow and thus extremely vulnerable to flanking enemies, aerial attacks and close-ranged assaults.
-Settlements without appropriate Command Centers now suffer a LARGE morale penalty. For now Baikonur won’t be penalized for not having a Command Center, but one should be built as soon as possible.
-Morale is done numerically now. Housing morale is done as an average of housing quality rounded down to the nearest whole number. Building more the same type of building does not give more Morale bonus (i.e. two stadiums only give +2 bonus instead of +4). The two goods types have been merged into one and civilian cars will deteriorate over time.
-Weapons will not be automatically attached to vehicles. They are counted separately and chosen before a battle. The same goes for naval ships, though a ship cannot fire its guns if they were refitted earlier that turn.
-Ship missile batteries entirely replaced by Railgun Lance Batteries. Ship anti-fighter platforms now use AA slots. Some costs of different ships have been changed.
-Chemical weapons require appropriate tech to be effective against a particular enemy. They can currently be used against species that are already a member of the Splinter. The gas can be tweaked to be toxic to a select number of species but ineffective against others.
-Airports are now necessary to for fixed-wing (Interceptor, Test Pattern and Bomber) operations. The Carrier can only scramble aircraft for SPACE missions, but it can launch all of them at once. Gunships, Heavy Gunships and Dropships do not require airports to conduct missions.
No. 34486 ID: 1854db

Hooray, less number crunching! Also the robot supremacy is upon us apparently.
No. 34494 ID: 28e94e

The fact that you're making things so easy suggests that the coming chapter is going to be very, very difficult.
No. 34497 ID: 1854db

What do you mean? It's only easier to deal with numbers-wise. Everything is similar in cost. In fact, it looks like ceramics cost was added straight into the metal cost... Maybe that's a little cheaper overall since ceramics was harder to get than metal.
No. 34501 ID: f6360f

Is it just me, or are certain larger buildings now significantly less efficient than the smaller ones? That is, why build a biodome (cost 300/2/4/200, produces 80 food) over four farming domes (cost 300/2/4/120, produces 80 food)? And some are highly arguable- unless we're really hurting for metal, a large shop (cost 200/75, services 1500) is far worse than six small shops (cost 300/60, services 1500) since we can save on precious workers.

Most of the larger buildings are better, yes, but enough aren't that we should keep a close eye on it.

Anyway. What is the base morale value? Or does it just fluctuate in response to events, with buildings modding it from there?
No. 34502 ID: 647c47

I think that thats the idea, what do you prefer, a small mall close to home or a huge multimegastore far in the middle of the city?
No. 34503 ID: f6360f

In game terms, I have no opinion on that matter because they both provide the same amount of morale. One just costs more metal and uses less workers.
No. 34504 ID: 549ff5


Yeah I fucked up with those, I'll fix them later.
No. 34509 ID: 9ea6ca

Woot! Superheavy tanks :D

I dread the day we have to use them in a defensive capacity though.
No. 34513 ID: 3d0c19

Ok people, I just realized that I have too much freetime, so I made a current tally of the vote, counting the half ones.

Leading is Karras with 16, followed by Dwight with 15, third place is Metzger with five, while Segale and Voronova share the last place with one vote each.

So it looks like either Preservation-Squid or Paranoid Spy make the race
No. 34516 ID: 1854db

Oh, it looks like chemical weapons are available even if Karras isn't picked. Hmm, I'll have to reevaluate my vote.
No. 34517 ID: 5f0943

I think it's just there to show prerequisites and RP requirements.
I doubt Ed would take away one of the advantages to a choice just like that, when it is explicitly stated that choosing Karras leads to chemical weapons.
No. 34536 ID: 1d7883

It could be that choosing him gives us a foot in the door for chemical weapons.
Also, I'm curious about those warpslug bullets, are they like gyrojet weapons where the bullet is self-propelling or is the FTL engine mounted in the weapon?
No. 34537 ID: 9ea6ca

>So it looks like either Preservation-Squid or Paranoid Spy make the race
Fanart campaign posters GO!
No. 34571 ID: 02b318
File 130180192241.png - (275.05KB , 2972x1924 , Master Spreadsheet Nightmare.png )

Fixed that, here is new Master List
Also forgot to list the Massive.

Some additional notes
-Small Buildings take 2 turns to build, Medium 3, Large 4 and Massive 5. Airless planets take an extra turn.
-100 Light Infantry need 100 Metal and 6 turns to train, 100 Power Infantry need 600 Metal and 18 turns, 100 Commandos need 100 Metal, 25 SC and 48 turns.
-Secondary melee weapons have been removed, it is now assumed everyone carries some form of secondary melee weapon alongside a sidearm. Primary melee weapons still exist.
No. 34640 ID: 15b51b

>We do not need Shops, this is a temporary colony.
We're plenty likely to stay here for a year. If we don't make any morale structures at all, everyone's going to be pretty pissed by then.

I'd prefer if we found a decent place to move to before we moved.
No. 34653 ID: 1854db

Alright since apparently there's been a bit of frustration over people not agreeing on where we should go with the fleet next over the long term...

Let's discuss it here. I'm for leaving Baikonur at its current population, and moving the vast majority of our mans to the universe with the Archive. I only want the main fleet to stop there to retrofit engines. I *GUESS* we could have our dudes planetside during that time, but I don't think it's necessary to build a large number of advanced structures to support them.

Wasn't there an ice planet in the new universe? That'd probably be a neat place to colonize if the Archive's planet has hostiles on it.
No. 34658 ID: 15b51b

You guys do what you want. I don't feel like herding suggestions. That's bad in many ways for many reasons.

But if you want my opinion, I think going exploring a new and potentially dangerous new universe while lugging around more than 50% of the human race is just a completely terrible plan.

I don't know why everyone's so opposed to things like happiness, housing, and food. Someone's going to have to explain that to me.
No. 34661 ID: 7150d8

I'm not opposed to it. I feel it's a seriously bad idea to go straight for the archive world.
It would be better to wait and build some strenght at Baikonur for a while (it will likely be some time until the Breakers manage to get actual ships through).
No. 34665 ID: 2563d4

I have to admit, I've completely lost the ball now.

Someone sketch up a diagram of the colonies, planets, and universes we're now spread over? The little maps in the updates just show "there is a planet here" and keeping track of this without the iconic cues and interactive display of a real 4X is straining the limits of quest-following effort.

In general I thought we were opposed to spreading out last time it came up, if only for meta reasons re: complexity, and huge amounts of resource shuttling required v.s. available fuel.
No. 34668 ID: 5f0943

> In general I thought we were opposed to spreading out last time it came up, if only for meta reasons re: complexity, and huge amounts of resource shuttling required v.s. available fuel.

We still are, but it seems that a few people picked up the idea of splitting up and decided to run with it.

Our population is still in the same universe as Gretz, with a few scouting ships in another universe.
No. 34671 ID: 1854db

That is a good point, but we kinda did it twice already, didn't we? Plus at this point our main fleet is basically the safest place for our mans to be in, since we've got a jamming cruiser.

I'm not completely opposed to plopping down all our dudes into Baikonur right now but I'm both worried about putting all our dudes on one planet in a universe with a known Breaker fleet (although right now it's just fighters and I'm not really sure if the mages can summon anything bigger), and eager to get to the Archive ASAP.

Would the upkeep really be that bad if we left Baikonur as an independent mining/research colony? ...I just realized that if we put a colony somewhere that ONLY did research, there would be zero upkeep. Well, there would need to be a small factory and a metal derrick there for making Goods and Cars, but that's it.

We only have one settled planet right now. The colony is called Baikonur, on the planet Thrace, same universe as Gretz- the planet we just fled. Gretz had New Monument and Ryxix, and the moon had Irontown. All of them were either blown up or completely stripped before we left.
No. 34674 ID: 15b51b

>That is a good point, but we kinda did it twice already, didn't we?
We scouted out Grezt before we brought in all the civilians. (It seemed like a good spot at the time...)
>Would the upkeep really be that bad if we left Baikonur as an independent mining/research colony? ...I just realized that if we put a colony somewhere that ONLY did research, there would be zero upkeep.
The Professionals are your second most irreplaceable resource, after the carrier.
>Well, there would need to be a small factory and a metal derrick there for making Goods and Cars, but that's it.
That's kinda the only upkeep anything ever needs. Also food. Food is kind of important and nobody remembers to build it.

One possibility you guys should at least consider is sending raids down to Grezt along with bombarding them (I thought we'd stay at Irontown longer to keep an eye on them and throw bombs, but I guess not) and capturing 100 breakers so we can just kill them with a plague.
No. 34698 ID: 1854db

>raids and plague

Great idea. Don't we need access to their homeworld to use the plague though? Maybe they'll portal back there and spread it because they're completely stupid? Hmm... Well if we can pull it off that'd be awesome.
No. 35052 ID: 15b51b
File 130256116432.jpg - (37.97KB , 199x140 , tumblrl00vrozbz91qzhu0d.jpg )

so I guess we tore down all our labs
No. 35063 ID: ab8ce9

Yes, but that happened a while ago.

Also, fixed some more shit on the masterlist. Hopefully I won't need to do this too much more
No. 35097 ID: d81168

Lately I had an idea concerning a biological weapon and with the latest update, I thought I should present it here.

Bees. Yes, bees. Now you´re asking, why bees. I´ll explain.
We´re going to use the basic build of a bee, or from a similar species, and slightly improve and change only a select aspects.
First we choose an enemy race (for example Snarren) and make it so that the bee will search for that species specific smell/phreomones/musk. That beings smell will cause the same reaction a intruder in the hive would cause, urging the bee to attack and sting the enemy. Afterwards the stinger will get stuck in the targets skin, together with the poison gland, to pump the maximum amount of poisson into the victim.
Of course we will also have adapted the poisson created by the bee, to a cocktail deadly to the chosen race.

And so we have created homing poisson arrows, kinda. And now to the advantages and disadvantages of such a build.

- Because of th similarities of this and normal bees, resarch should go fast.
- Large amounts should be cheaply and fastly created.
- Easily released either by Air or Ground, using adapted Weaver or Test Pattern drones, or as part of a base defend, because of the small size all in large numbers.
- Good against Infantry and Morale, latter if used in a large swarm.
- Most likely not detected by mages who can detect our machinerie. Considering the source of the Dryads ability in that regard, other servants of that rabbit might be cabable of it too.

- After creation only usable against one specific kind of enemies.
- Only one use per bee.
- Weak to attacks/abilities that effect large areas.(No one of our enemies have shown such capability till now)
- Useless against enemies glad in enviromentally sealed armors.( Until now, only Breakers should be able to do that, although I have yet to see one wearing a helmet)
- Unknown how they would react to shields.

So thats one small bio weapon idea. Comments? Do you think it is feasable?
No. 35116 ID: 87f3d9

This is a good idea, however I think it would be a good idea to make them dependent on a nutrient that can only be provided by the Splinter, just in case the bees manage to find a way to survive in alien ecosystems.
No. 35119 ID: d81168

Doable, but considering that only the sterile workerbees have the barbs on their stinger, which makes them stuck in the skin as mentioned, hardly nessesary, I believe.

So even if they go rogue, they should´nt be able to procreate. But it could be used as an additional security for them and some of our future biological projects, so yeah.
No. 35130 ID: 43d730

I say overkill and also give them whatever diseases we can find or cook up.
No. 35155 ID: 1a2ebe

havent i seen a x-files episode like that?

this is not so bad. most bee hives could attack a dozen individuals so we can make a biological static defense, but if they are overwhelmed the colony will die.

we should use wasps. and make them more prolific, with a pheromone to not build hives to prevent our own infection.
No. 35163 ID: 9ea6ca

I agree with wasps. Ever seen that video of like 2 dozen wasps killing an ENTIRE beehive? Holy god.
No. 35204 ID: c7a673

OK, I did mention just several posts ealier that I wanted to use the sterile worker bees as our homing arrows, right.

So I actually hadn´t thought about letting them breed in the wild, rather having a large swarm of them already prepared in a box, released when nessecary, so to speak. I admit leaving it open if we should breed them normally at the base or just create them all artificially in tubes. Either way, I didn´t really expect them to go wild in the wilds.

Aside from that, using wasps is an option. Am I allowed to bring it up in the thread so that we can offically research them. If so, how should we make them. Totally artifical or generate a hive at the base where we can extract the needed amount?
No. 35206 ID: 28e94e

Entirely artificial would be safer and easier to grow, plus we can quickly modify them to deal with different races.

As for the whole wasp/bee thing, who says we have to choose? We have genetic engineering. We can just create a bee with some desirable traits of a wasp, or vice versa.
No. 35339 ID: 1854db

A while ago? Before the evacuation? Looks like they're still there to me.

I can't think of any reason why we'd want to tear down the labs on Baikonur. Even if we were planning to build a Massive there or something. If we were low on metal we could've just waited a single turn to get about as much metal as they would've refunded us, and if we were low on workers/profs we could've just shut them down temporarily.
No. 35977 ID: cf65c1

Is this quest dead? It's been almost three weeks since the last post.
No. 35980 ID: 28e94e

He updates once a month.
No. 35989 ID: cf65c1

Alright, thank you. BTW, has the idea of a comparative to the Kushan Mothership been shot down yet or no?
No. 35993 ID: 8c73c8

i proposed a MOTHERSHIP sized vessel a while ago. it's still being thought about. need massive sized mobile shipyards. several of them at the same time in fact. a single massive yard can build like a carrier. and you saw how big the mothership was to a carrier, could fit like 5 of them in it. so just this enormous orbital complex to even start building it. next is how many resources it would need. just billions of units of metals and super conductors. and then time, would take YEARS of in game time.
No. 36019 ID: cf65c1

Hmmm, so the word is incremental then maybe? Start up with building mobile orbital facilities we can take with us the next time we jump, perhaps some science vessels and the like.
No. 36038 ID: 35cea2
File 130440268144.png - (17.04KB , 524x571 , Crew.png )

I won't even try to justify my laziness, so I'm just gonna say I'm sorry that I didn't update when I meant to.

Though having a build order would help updating a bit.

A mothership would be rather unfeasible with our current resources (though if you throw some more specific armanent/carrying capacity ideas at me I might give you a rough RP and material cost estimate), but mobile Orbital Factories are not. They won't be able to build on the move and are comparatively expensive (and take up Orbital BP like a starship), but will be able to be set up at anytime in a single month. It will take 50 RP to build mobile versions of our Orbital Factories.

The nonbreeding weaponized swarm insects will cost 40 RP. Researching appropriate Biological Weapons tech and Chemical Gas tech will increase their strength against certain targets. They can be quickly modified to survive in most environments, though still cannot endure extreme situations such as airless environments or areas with extreme temperatures. A swarm can be launched via APC, Dropship, Bomber or Test Pattern.

Also, another one of the things that I do sometimes:

Vehicle Crew:
The "Crewmen" listed in the quest spreadsheets is a heavy simplification of Splinter military organization. Lumped together in this single category are Navy Starship crew; Navy pilots; Armor Gunship pilots and Armor crew.

Crewmen, both the ground based Armor and aircraft base Navy branches, undergo rigorous simulation and live training exercises to prepare them for battle. As both lives and vehicles are extremely valuable for the woefully outnumbered Splinter, utter perfection is expected from all of it's members to ensure less risk of loss.

Splinter vehicles are the strong arm of humanity, designed to excel in the heat of deepest warfare where subterfuge fails and mere infantry are not enough to hold the line. The rapid pace of weapons development constantly affects the armament of these warmachines, though the design of the vehicles themselves have changed very little.

Pilots and crew tend to become very attached to their vehicles, often giving them individual names and personalized paint jobs. The latter is discouraged, however, due to camouflage reasons.

Various types of vehicles and their crews have garnered diverse reputations and stereotypes. The high percentage of Gunship and BRICs getting destroyed in combat led to their image being of a bloodthirsty gloryhound charging recklessly into battle, while Bomber pilots and MLRS crew are thought of being very laid back and calm due to their relative safety of their job of bombing enemies from a great altitude.

Nautil who wish to join the military tend to go for the Navy, as their natural pressure endurance aids them in piloting high-speed aircraft, and their physical stature offers no drawbacks to their combat ability. The aliens of the Splinter have not yet entered as vehicle pilots yet, mostly due to their lack of experience and talent when it comes to using human vehicles.
No. 36044 ID: cf65c1

Apologies, but I'm having a hard time trying to make sense of your spreadsheet and generate a build order--I'm not even fully certain where we all are and would have to reread the last two threads to make sense of it I think. It seems like most of your players want to help but that only one actually kept up with what's going on sufficiently to make build orders.
No. 36060 ID: 11adba

>The nonbreeding weaponized swarm insects will cost 40 RP

That much, huh. Still think it would be a worthwhile investment, especially with that climate update, I admit that I totally forgot about diffrent enviroments, and future improvements through other techs. Can we have an estimation of the build cost of one single swarm unit?
No. 37767 ID: cd63e9

sorry if this has already been addressed, but i'm getting a 404 error when i try to go to chapter 4 from the quest wiki page (http://quest.lv/wiki/The_Icon#Chapter_2)
No. 37780 ID: 2563d4

Hunh. It looks like that might actually be because the thread's gone! I can't see it in the catalogue, graveyard, or archive (not that it was complete).
No. 37792 ID: a3512e


You're not looking hard enough. It's on page [7].
I know this because I just looked at it.
No. 37793 ID: 2563d4

Indeed I wasn't. This is why subject lines are important so people can search-in-page. :V
No. 37808 ID: cd63e9

what if instead of a bee swarm we just modified army ants? make em a bit larger and give them either nastier jaws or a sting. we would only have to make the queens. they would be a great way to take down Snarren, they would ignore those damn shields and the snarren would have no effective way to defend themselves against something this small. we would of course have to design them not to attack humans or our allies, but it would be simpler than the bees since it would not require as much modification.
No. 38239 ID: 44766a

How much RP would building level stealth technology be?
No. 38342 ID: 566d38


is there a corps with a spade in their insignia?
No. 38346 ID: eba49f
File 130862151067.png - (244.26KB , 600x739 , __May_God_forgive_him___by_Nichtschwert.png )

Like this?
No. 38350 ID: 1854db

Ed I found some problems with your spreadsheet and corrected them.

Mainly, they were bad pointers. For instance, all the workers/profs requirements for constructing buildings past the Massive Labs were pointing at the row below what they should. I just deleted some of the 0's that never changed too so moving stuff around in that area should be easier to handle now.

No. 38351 ID: 1854db

Oh yeah also the income/loss section is a little different.
No. 38427 ID: 75c491
File 130871742854.png - (16.18KB , 524x571 , Ace.png )

(yes i know there is a build order i'll get to that)

Stealth versions of small buildings and turrets will cost 45 RP. They'll be mostly underground and contain various methods of making them give off as few heat and electromagnetic signatures as possible, but take 1 turn longer to build.

Answered in the quest thread.

For some reason when I download this one there are no pointers at all. All the equations are just replaced by numbers. I appreciate the help with the bugfixing though.

Yes, in fact.

Phantasm Aces:
The Aces are a new division of the Splinter armed forces. They were born when Splinter leadership wanted an elite group for special military operations requiring exceptional levels of skill, usually demanding a level of discretion unusual for massive war machines.

The Phantasms differ greatly from the classic notion of the "flying ace". Instead of being a simple honorary title for killing a number of enemy aircraft, they are a separate military division with their own methods of warfare and accept new members based on careful review of skills and qualities demonstrated in combat missions. In addition, the Phantasms extend to all forms of vehicular combat instead of just fighter pilots, barring the LUV.

Despite the wide variety of talents displayed in the Phantasms, there are a few noticable trends. Vehicles piloted by these crewmen have a tendency to avoid destruction or disablement in even the riskiest situations, and most of them have the knack to successfully utilize the stealth capabilities of the 'Lullaby' Gunship and 'Chisel' APC.

Aces tend to be competitive fighters, though generally less so than Power Troopers. The list of kills is a source of immense pride for an Ace, with the more unorthodox kills getting more recognition; one of the most famous of these being the recorded video of Lieutenant U. Kreed and his crew managing to sneak up and crush undertread an unsuspecting Snarren warrior, while driving a Main Battle Tank.
No. 38441 ID: 28e94e

>One of the most famous of these being the recorded video of Lieutenant U. Kreed and his crew managing to sneak up and crush undertread an unsuspecting Snarren warrior, while driving a Main Battle Tank.
That's hardly unique, in real life tanks often get more kills from just running people down than from cannon fire.
No. 38442 ID: 0373d5

>sneak up and crush undertread an unsuspecting Snarren...

I think this is the part that's unusual.
No. 38443 ID: 7a3b1d

You're not a REAL ninja until you can do stealth kills with a running chainsaw.
No. 38445 ID: 29480e

Wait a minute

> ...one of the most famous of these being the recorded video of Lieutenant U. Kreed and his crew managing to sneak up and crush undertread an unsuspecting Snarren warrior, while driving a Main Battle Tank.

> U. Kreed
> Sneaky tank surprising enemy

Seriously? The next thing we hear will be Totus screaming "KREEEEEEEED".
No. 38446 ID: 2f2641
File 130876817136.jpg - (129.47KB , 620x877 , 28.jpg )

No. 38464 ID: 75c491

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.
No. 38491 ID: 44766a

Should we figure out a way to put stealth tech on our MBTs?
No. 38823 ID: 9ea6ca

Actual stealth systems might be a bit much. You could certainly camouflage it in place and ensure it gets the first shot though.
No. 39139 ID: cd63e9

would researching fully automated mines be beyond us right now? if i'm not mistaken our limiting factor right now is manpower.
No. 39157 ID: 35e1a0

think the very next lvl of computers would let us do that. or perhaps the computer V plus memory mod combo will give man-machine interface and let a handful of people control everything,
No. 39158 ID: 35e1a0

also, i am pretty sure that disruptive shell is a inverted warp-field. making it steal energy from whatever hits it.
No. 39162 ID: 1e9d01

How much RP would it take to create a long-distance space kamikaze warp bomb? As in, a bigass torpedo that would go ftl RIGHT INTO AN ENEMY SHIP?

I was thinking it would go FTL until it's near enough to the target to figure out where it is, then calculate a course and execute the FTL impact. We have instant transmitters, so we can just control them remotely.

It would be like a spacefaring Beardy Bob or Farmer, with warp tech and/or warpslug tech.
No. 39170 ID: cd63e9

that sounds like a good idea, probably rather expensive, but if we stockpile them it might let us jump and destroy a breaker fleet.
No. 39204 ID: 1854db

Unfortunately Ed Pastry explained that FTL doesn't allow a precise destination, so we can't warp things into ships via FTL. Also while in FTL you aren't really... there. That's why we can't fire while in FTL, and I assume that we can't be fired UPON while in FTL either.

Hmm. I suppose this means we can go FTL and just vanish from all sensors until we reach our destination.
No. 39207 ID: 35e1a0

at least until we get some kind of warp sensor array.
No. 39209 ID: 1cd049

this reminds me of a ICBM type the allies were developing by the end of the cold war

it was a huge missile that could navigate the earth from space. once reaching specific waypoints, it would deploy bombs that would guide themselves to the target

pehaps this is a ideal solution to us. a InterPlanetary Warp Missile could use fire and forget torpedoes to bomb stuff and when its out of ammo, ram itself on a target
No. 39256 ID: 44766a

That was Project Pluto, right? Had nuclear ramjets if I recall correctly.
No. 39626 ID: 1854db

From >>/quest/324936

We have a good idea of their capabilities:
>WING COMMANDER VORONOVA: The enemy fleet is moving in a search pattern. They will eventually find us. We can outrun them easily, since we are at least three times as fast as their ships. Our ship armor has not changed since the Demise, so even if we outnumber them we can expect to take heavy damage. Our plasma weapons have similar range to their guns, but warpslug guns have much greater range. Our guns can break through their shields and most likely their will be able to defeat their armor. Exactly how much punishment they can take we don't know exactly, so I advise to get as much warpslug as possible and take them out before they can get into range. We cannot "kite" them with the warpslug guns because when we not in FTL travel we are the same speed as they are, and they could always try surrounding us.

So basically, if we can take them out before they get within range, we're good. The success of the raiding party will give us a good indication of how much damage we can do before they get within range... As for how well Disruptive Shell works, well we can test that with the Breaker weapons we have. Running right now would just be giving into paranoia.

Remember that we can pack up everything and leave in like 1 turn. We're not really in any danger.
No. 39630 ID: cd63e9

I think i'm confused about somting. just making sure of a few points.

1. we have a colony set up on a planet with most of the population there
2. our fleet is in a different universe
3. the breaker fleet is in the same universe as our fleet.
am i wrong any of these points?
No. 39652 ID: 8b22c1

We should totally start researching gamma and neutron bombs

the cheap way to eradicate all life on a planet!
No. 39660 ID: 1854db

Most of the population is in the same universe as most of our fleet and the breakers. The only thing we've got anywhere else is the Occissor, and that's about to rejoin our colony to refit the engines.
No. 41130 ID: 35e1a0

idea. bio-engineer a type of fungus that when touched releases a cloud of one of the gasses, to prevent it from going rampant it has to eat a particular nutrient that is only available along a ring-strip around the base result in a ring of death for snarren.
No. 41131 ID: 1854db

Right now I'd be more interested in building a scout drone to explore space for us.
No. 41494 ID: 1854db

Hey, can you list which flying vehicles can enter space, and if any can go FTL?
No. 41554 ID: a611d6

10 RP
The fungus would behave more or less like a gas landmine. It can be deployed via bomb, infantry or MLRS rocket.

A drone big enough to engage in FTL would cost 35 RP. It will be very cheap to build for a starship, but have no other uses besides being a scout.

Only the starships may enter FTL. Interceptors, Bombers, Dropships, Heavy Gunships and Shii Drones are all space capable. Regular Gunships and Test Pattern Drones are not and must be transported via Dropship if they are to be loaded into a starship. Only the Interceptor and Shii Drone are worthwhile at space combat however.
No. 42065 ID: fea63a
File 131475646998.png - (24.42KB , 524x652 , Nadir.png )

(Gonna update tomorrow guys, I sorta-promise. For now, take this thingy)

NADIR Operatives:
The Naval Directorate of Intelligence and Reconnaissance was founded decades ago by the United States government, back on Earth. It was a successor to the CIA, gaining its responsibilities to covertly collect important information from across the world as well as new responsibilities such as policing the military and directing clandestine black operations.

After the destruction of Earth and the formation of the Splinter, the NADIR continued its vital operations of protecting the remnants of humanity and keeping them in line. The organization has have become less secretive and subtle over time, eventually appropriating a large section of the Splinter military's veteran Light Infantrymen for its own usage as NADIR Special Operatives (commonly referred to as either 'Operatives',
Spec Ops', 'Nad-ops' or simply just 'Nads').

These elite operatives are the police of the Splinter, screening military personnel and civilian alike for crime and conspiracy. They are in charge of counterespionage policies and are constantly on guard against all forms of subterfuge. Due to the small number of personnel in the Splinter military, they also act as frontline soldiers like their Light Infantry brethren.

NADIR Operatives are very similar to the LIs in combat capability. They mainly differ in their increased ability to perform acts of subterfuge. They can stealth in rough or urban terrain and are better at scouting out concealed enemies, but cannot bypass highly secured areas without revealing themselves and cannot easily return to hiding after being compromised. They are not as subtle or skilled as the Commandos, so very high-difficulty missions such as infiltrating an enemy base or assassinating a heavily guarded target should not given to Nad-ops.

They also have the skill and steely nerves to perform sub-orbital paradrops. A Dropship can deploy stealthy squads of Operatives deep behind enemy lines, allowing them to bypass anti-air defenses and heavily fortified enemy lines. They can still be spotted by visual contact, however.

Other members of the Splinter generally have a poor image of the NAD Ops, seeing them as an oppressive police force with no sense of privacy. Still, most grudgingly acknowledge their vital role in society and will commend any acts of bravery and heroism that the NAD Ops often do.
No. 42624 ID: 1854db

A question:

While in warp, our ships can't interact with anything and also cannot be interacted with. When we send a ship out in a scouting mission, can they use sensors while in warp, or do they have to drop out of warp occasionally in order to gather information? Also, can they be seen or is warp speed also perfect stealth?
No. 42630 ID: 1854db

I've been reminded again that I'm not entirely sure how ground factories assist orbital factories.

1) Are ground factories themselves limited in how much BP they send to an orbital factory, or is the orbital factory the bottleneck there? I mean, if we have only one ground factory, and only one orbital factory, could the ground factory assist the orbital factory up to the maximum or would we need more than one assisting it?
2) Is there an exchange rate, or is the BP-OBP conversion 1:1?
3) Could we have one ground factory assisting multiple orbital factories?

Basically what I want to know is if we can have a single Large Factory generating 54 BP, and sending 48 of that to four Large Orbital Factories, resulting in 72 OBP total (18 for each ship being built) and leaving 6 BP left over for ground production.
No. 42633 ID: 1854db

And, to triple post and annoy people...

Ed, my spreadsheet has Gestation Tanks requiring 1500 workers and 0 professionals, when the original specs require 150 workers and 50 professionals. I'm guessing the latter is correct?
No. 42635 ID: b1f0e2

So, I proposed earlier an idea for an economical and practical mothership/worldship.
Find a very large asteroid rich in metal. Crash & Latch small SC rich &, water rich asteroids into it.

Strap warp drive to the whole thing, and build a tiny basic "colony" on it with manufacturing and harvesting capabilities. Over many years the colony will expand itself, converting the large asteroid into a massive worldship bit by bit. Unnecessary waste can be discarded, new small asteroids can be connected to it, and so on.

The fuel costs of such a thing would be very large, but you can have it spend most of its time in nebula collecting fuel; or find uranium rich asteroids to run it on nuclear fission power plants.

The only feasibility issue would be the size limitation of objects that can be moved via warp drive.
So, this raises the questions:
1. How big an object can be moved via warp?
2. How does the energy cost of warp drive scale based on size of object?
3. How does the engine size/cost scale based on the size of object that needs to be moved.

Basically I was thinking that we take the largest ship design we currently have, and then build a warp engine only the size of that entire ship. And place it on a suitably sized asteroid.
No. 42637 ID: 9ea6ca

Orbital factories can receive a certain amount of BP from ground factories but there is a hard cap. We also have a penalty because we picked Karras as leader.

I think for the long run the mothership plan is the way to go. Find a huge asteroid and mount some engines on it. Slowly harvest the asteroid and build a ship using the engines as a starting framework. For other materials, freight them in or harvest other asteroids.

We should make it a modular design, starting as a framework with engines and defense mounts. Modular sections could then be constructed on the framework and used to store cargo or converted into housing and labs.

If it has a huge fuel consumption we may need to mine up a large stockpile or develop some sort of purpose built fuel scooping ship.
No. 42665 ID: 1854db

>hard cap, Karras
...yes, I know. I even mentioned that there's a bottleneck in the orbital factories and that we're maxed at 18 for large ones.

Also we can already scoop fuel from nebulas. We did so a couple times; it's a REALLY fast way of getting Fuel.
No. 42688 ID: b1f0e2

IIRC, an orbital factory can have its construction rate accelerated by non orbital factories up to a cap of 3x the base construction speed of said factory.
So a large orbital factory does 9 a turn, and can be accelerated up to 27 a turn with the aid of planet based factories.
No. 42691 ID: 1854db

Yes, except for the fact that we have a penalty of 30% from Karrus.
No. 42706 ID: c0bb4e

This has probably been spoken about before, but I want a super soldier project. Nothing with genetic engineering, not yet anyways, but using implants. Give them the strongest strength, and neural implants we got, make specialized power armor for them, maybe using breaker alloys (if it's stronger) and have it connect with their neural implants, to their reactions are not dulled. I'm pretty sure there are other ways to do this, but this is just my idea. If people do end up going through with this in the future, I'd say going for the tactical implants as the next research, or the next genetic engineering mod for less chance of death. Also, give them long training times, make them more useful. That's all I got to say for now.
No. 42709 ID: 9ea6ca

We did pick Karras because we needed to remain safe to make any use of said shipyards, so it all works out in the end.

What do you guys think of designing massive building ships? Like not a ship with a massive building in it. A ship built from the ground up to perform as a mobile massive structure. We are already halfway there with the mobile orbital factories.

It would be really helpful to have a couple buildings like labs and gestation tanks that we wouldn't need to constantly rebuild.

You mean like Spartans? Fast agile power armour vs heavy weapons guy? Were halfway there, we just need something that boosts agility and reflexes. Anything more than that would probably require bioengineering.

You idea does have some merit. Instead of heavy "tank" power armour. We would be aiming to develop agile "second skin" power armour. If the person inside could rely on MaxStr implants, it wouldn't have to be as heavy as the current power armour and maintain the same level of protection.
No. 42710 ID: c0bb4e

Pretty much... Maybe we could grow them in the tanks to reduce chances of death. I'd also like a few more commandos, round that number to an even 20.
No. 42711 ID: c0bb4e


I would like to design a underground bunker that could be built at military bases, and such. I want it to be able to survive Warpslugs from a ship. Yeah. How much would that cost?
No. 42719 ID: b1f0e2

I am pretty sure that is what our augmented at birth program is. We grow them in clone tanks and augment them with heavy or light augments and raise them as super soldiers.

As soon as we get Integrated Tactical Implant System they will come with a heads up display and be EXACTLY like the guy from deus ex human revolution. Once we add memory mods they could download knowledge like in the matrix:
SuperSoldier: I need info on how to pilot a KT-M Light hovertank stat!
Central: Uploading...

These are the guys who ran into the shielded werewolves and beat them to death in melee.
No. 42720 ID: c0bb4e

I kind of assumed that, but nothing has really been done with it. I'm saying we further it, by giving them both augments, and developing a special suit for them, give them enhanced training, maybe let volunteers augment themselves too.
No. 42721 ID: b1f0e2

right now we are doing it at birth.
Switching to adult volunteers means a significant reduction in their training quality.
Although before there was an issue of death rate which prevented us from using it on adults, we could allow adults into the plan once we get the tactical implant tech.

I am all for doing the things you suggested, I am just saying that AFAIK that was already what we were planning on doing.
No. 42722 ID: c0bb4e

Understandable, but from what I can tell, everyone only has strength mods, or at least those are the only ones listed. I remember reading when neural augments were researched, that it said it would increase reflexes as well. Might have just been me misreading, but those might be useful as well, especially if we make that second skin suit.
No. 42726 ID: b1f0e2

good points, definitely worth fleshing out.
No. 43488 ID: f95959
File 131717493219.png - (3.40KB , 259x152 , SHC1.png )

Normal warp does not give stealth, and popping out of the warp occasionally is required to scan the surrounding area.

Yeah, the latter is indeed correct.

The asteroid idea unfortunately can't work efficiently with our warp technology. The warp drives run throughout almost every nook and cranny of the ship, to make sure it doesn't tear itself apart when the ship jumps. It is simply better to just mine an asteroid for minerals and use them to build a ship, instead of try to make a the rock warp-worthy.

A modular mothership design could be possible, though expensive. In the short term it will be less efficient than other ships in terms of carrying capacity and firepower, but as modules will be added it will become more useful. Give an estimate in terms of carrying capacity, number of weapons and number of components and I'll give you an idea of how much RP and resources it might cost.


Your super-soldier idea will take 35 RP to design the armor and training schedule. They will require MaxStr and Neural implants and have a 3 year training time.

They will be as durable and strong as Power Troopers, have the flexibility of a Light Infantryman and be able to pilot any vehicle. As an added bonus they are unmatched in melee combat, are very fast (for infantry), and can board and destroy enemy vehicles/giant creatures (assuming they can sneak up on it or get on it while it is distracted)

Elite super soldiers will stealthier, smarter, faster and more accurate.

They can use infantry weapons and light vehicle weapons.

What would the bunker do? Would it just hold people and resources, or would it have a command center or other functions built into it?

Also, orbital Warpslug strikes are immensely powerful. It will be necessary to dig very deep to build the structure so it can be safe from the shockwave, which will come up in terms of longer build times.

Memory Mods reduce training time, but will not allow for instant gain of knowledge. Assuming the previous suggestion for super soldiers with very long training times is used, they'll be adept at most forms of warfare anyways.

Reflexes are indeed enhanced with Memory Mod implants. This is useful for pilots as well as infantrymen, unlike the strength implants which only really help for foot soldiers.
No. 43500 ID: 1854db

He's referenced something that happened in the past. Horrors of some sort. He is most likely part of the civilization that was at war way back when, on the side of the anti-tech guys. He probably truly believes that he must prevent another resurgence, by any means necessary.
No. 43505 ID: 786012
File 131721310434.jpg - (34.70KB , 494x306 , SpaceRaceContest-Ship.jpg )

> A modular mothership design could be possible
Oh this is going to be awesome.
No. 43515 ID: b1f0e2

What game is this from?

>A modular mothership design could be possible

I think that rather then starting with that, we should first design and build an asteroid mining ship, and some mobile (warp capable) orbital factories. Then use those to build more of themselves. Then use that to build the manufacturing modules only of the modular mother-ship. Then use all of them together to build the skeleton of the mother-ship. Over the years we can then build new modules / upgrade modules for it.

However, would such a modular mothership actually be more efficient than a fleet of smaller specialized building ships?
The ships I am thinking about are:
1. City ship: Apartments (full sized) + Schools (sized to be just big enough for the amount of people it holds) + generator (sized to supply the relatively very small needs of such a ship) + shopping + entertainment + medical + Small parks/pools/etc designed to give the illusion of space.
2. Mining ship: Mobile redeploy-able asteroid harvesting derrik + crew housing + generator
3. Freighter: Flying warehouse + generator.
4. Refinery: Metal refinery + ceramist + power + crew housing.
5. Factory: Orbital factory with engines.
6. Science: Lab + crew housing + power
7. Small shuttles: Only used to move small amount of personnel between various ships. Not used for daily commute (think the helicopters that deliver / pickup people from oil derricks IRL after/before their 6 month shift.
8. Military ships: Most of our current ships. Crewed by soldiers and bristling with weaponry. Only ship type that is armed.

Mining ship will be settling on asteroids until it exhausts them or needs to escape the system. Freighters will move mined material from mineships to refinery ships, and then from refinery ships to factory ships.

Optional configuration 1: Factory, Refinery, and Science will remain docked in geosynchronous orbit with a city ship, from which the workers will commute. If they need to move from one system to another the workers/scientists will move back to the city ships and a skeleton crew will then fly them to a new location (meaning no manufacturing while in transit).
Optional configuration 2: Factory, refinery, and science will have some basic housing for the people who work there. Production can continue while traveling between star systems, Might end up a little less efficient but will remove the need to be docked with city ships.

Anyways, so the question is. Will fleets of such ships be superior or inferior to motherships
No. 43517 ID: 3b202e

>What game is this from?
civilization 1
No. 43518 ID: 2563d4

Civ 1 space race is best space race.

Although with a 28% chance of success, I hope he named his civ the Kerbals. :V
No. 43554 ID: c0bb4e

Awesome, for the super soldiers. Hopefully we can get them researched soon.

As for the bunker, well... How much for a basic bunker that holds people and resources, and how much for a command center?
No. 43556 ID: b1f0e2

We need memory mods and integrated systems for them though.
This means we must first finish:
1. Disruptive shell
2. Archive
3. Integrated Implant Systems
4. Memory mods
5. Warp 3
6. Supersoldier.

I do support moving supersoldier up to be #5. It is the earliest we can have them unless we delay disruptive shell or archive which has been debated forever and is kinda locked in now.
No. 43709 ID: c0bb4e

Alright, well, how much do we need for boarding pods? I got the idea of capturing a Breaker ship in my head. Our ships still use missiles, right? I'm asking since we could fire a wall of missiles that could make a wall that would absorb most of the point defense, then fire missile sized boarding pods. Also, how big are the missiles, if we use them?
No. 43724 ID: 385f21

I think missiles are too fast to be a viable transportation method. At takeoff everyone inside a missile-like pod will be subjected to what I expect to be a three- or even four-digit G of bone-liquefying force. And if we slow them down, it will be a sign for the enemy that these "missiles" are unusual and, therefore, worthy of special attention.
No. 43725 ID: 35e1a0

primary defences against that are their shields.
No. 43737 ID: c0bb4e

Well, damn... I guess we could disable a ship with EMPs or something, before launching boarding pods... I'm pretty sure, someone else here has a better idea.
No. 43743 ID: 6fa1ef

We might be better off just disabling their systems and then docking with and boarding them the old fashioned way. If we want to capture Breaker ships, that is.

Elaborate missile pod schemes have too many ways to go wrong, and they're definitely more vulnerable than our ships would be especially once we develop our own shielding.
No. 43789 ID: b1f0e2

yes, step 1 is hit their reactors. When the power goes down they are defenseless. We can then board.

Or better yet, we can also drill small holes in the hull in said derelict to vent the atmospher which will kill all the beings on board and give us an intact ship to reverse engineer.
No. 43794 ID: 42cd7a

I have a question... What do Breaker alloys do? I mean, is there anything special about it. Other than being able to create Breaker vehicles out if it, I mean.
No. 44323 ID: 9ea6ca

>Super Soldiers
Spartan program is a go! I think we should invest some resources in these guys asap. They have a very long training time but we don't need a ton of them. These guys are the shock and awe equivalent of our commandos.

>Give an estimate in terms of carrying capacity, number of weapons and number of components and I'll give you an idea of how much RP and resources it might cost.
Hmm... Quick question guys. Just how big of a mothership are we trying to make here? A Supercarrier with the capacity of multiple carriers (X2/X3/X4 etc), or a Kushan mothership?
No. 47366 ID: a611d6
File 132420020442.png - (7.38KB , 524x571 , Nightmare.png )

Even among the elite Commandos, there exists a few whose prowess and veterancy sets them in a whole new class. These paragons of human subterfuge are known as the Nightmares.

The Nightmares' origins are completely shrouded in mystery. The few who fully understood the extent of the organization were among the countless millions who died on Earth. Even the highest military leaders of the Splinter knew little about the Nightmares, aside from their ultimate loyalty to the government and their ability to change the fate of the world with their covert operations. Now that old conspiracy is gone the Nightmares directly serve the Splinter High Command, with their new goals being the prevention of mankind's extinction and the eradication of those responsible for Earth's Demise.

The souls that make up the Nightmares are hardened beyond compare. Every facet of their life revolves around their bloody profession, making them immune to fear, doubt, suggestion or bribery. Their mental fortitude allows them to endure their violent way of life without risk of breakdowns. Their bodies are perfectly toned for their duties, and their incredible reflexes make even the most intricate augmented soldiers seem sluggish by comparison.

They are as flexibly equipped as the Commandos, being able to use all manners of light weaponry and equipment in their missions. Their speed, stealth, organization and accuracy is without peer, making them able to safely complete the most dangerous tasks with ease. Like the Commandos, it is best to use them solely for acts of subterfuge like assassinations, sabotage, intelligence gathering, intimidation and acts of terrorism.

The civilian populace is unaware of the existence of the Nightmares and the common soldiery only have vague stories to rely on. Only the leaders of the military know well enough about the Nightmares to use them strategically.

Against the enemy, Nightmares can either perform their operations without leaving a trace to make things look like accidents, or intentionally incite terror among their ranks. Gruesome 'calling cards' can cripple an enemy's morale in a way that even armored tanks or orbital bombardment can't quite accomplish. The Nightmares have no qualms with committing any variety of unspeakable atrocities if it serves mankind's best interests.

For all their incredible skill, they are still the fragile, fallible human beings like us. Though their reputation is almost mythical, they are not invincible or invisible and can still make mistakes. A decision to use the Nightmares should be well thought out and carefully executed, as Nightmares are nearly impossible to replace.


There really isn't anything special about the alloys. The Breaker's materials in general are unsuited for most forms of Splinter engineering.

The unique makeup of the Breaker alloys may inspire some future technologies down the line, however.


I'll get back to you on that once you learn more about how Breaker ships work in the quest so you can refine your design.
No. 47372 ID: cf49fc

Maybe we should put some research into figuring out mind uploading... Imagine what we could do if we had an ARMY of Nightmares!
No. 47403 ID: 786012

Are disruptive shields bi-directional? That is, what happens if we shoot from under the shield, are our shots disrupted too?

Also I think we should look into turrets and other fortified emplacements. Smallish ones can help with base defense against ground and air attackers, like at the previous anomaly; bigger ones are the beginnings of our orbital defence systems, at first able to at least surprise the invading fleet (before self-destructing if the planet is abandoned).
No. 47409 ID: 786012

More questions, heh.

How do these shields react to a missile exploding inside the shielded area? Because if a slow missile can make it through these shields and detonate unimpeded, then uh... yeah.

Is it possible to burst-charge the shields? Like, collect some energy in capacitors, then dump it all into the shield to get a short-lived but more powerful shield, or just temporarily increase an existing shield's effects? If it's possible, then we might be able to combine this with some sort of threat tracking system to boost shield effectiveness.

Is it possible to focus shield energy in one particular direction, e.g. the front or a rear of a vessel? This might be useful, as I suspect that we'll encounter more line-of-sight capital weapons (beams, railguns, ...) than smart missile-based ones.

Is it possible to make dedicated shielding vessels? That is, ships full to the brim with shield generators that will project that shield a bit farther from themselves and possibly to one side of the ship? This way we can hide ships more geared to attack behind such a "tanking" ship, or shield a civilian fleet during evacuation, or whatever.

Do these shields interfere with communications? With FTL? How much would it cost to shield a city? An asteroid?

Can these shields be used for braking? If so, this will allow for more efficient carriers and transport systems and landing pods and whatnot. Also, inertia compensation for vehicles' crew.
No. 47413 ID: 453e62

just looking at how it works, the shields are bleeders. overcharging them cannot make them stronger when their effect is to make things weaker.
No. 47414 ID: 453e62

also looks like warp 3 just became more important and stronger soldiers less so. since how strong a person is does not help them win space battles. the tactical implants may be good depending on speed and range and if they can piggyback on the ships comms. would let the ships act as a VERY cohesive force.
No. 47432 ID: a611d6


Shields only deflect incoming fire, they do not interfere with our own weapons.

Could you verify if you are suggesting a larger ground turret or an orbital turret? I can give you an RP estimate if you do.

The shield wraps not far in front of the armor, so it doesn't matter if a missile is detonated by it or not. What it does is reduce the impulse from the ensuing explosion.

Our shields cannot be burst-charged or directionally oriented as a result of its design.

Since the shields do not extend far from the armor, a 'tanking' ship would have to be able to physically obscure the ships it protects, which makes it not a very efficient way of protecting them.

The shields in no way interfere with FTL or communications. The shielding required to protect an asteroid depends on the asteroid's size. Based on the way the shields work, it is a much better idea to simply individually shield every building in a city than to make a giant bubble over everything.

The shields themselves cannot be used to alter inertia. They do not help much at all when trying to reduce a collision with a massive body.

Not that these things only apply to the Disruptive Shell. Other similar technologies down the line may or may not be bound by these constraints.
No. 47433 ID: a611d6
File 132435015273.png - (3.40KB , 259x152 , SHC4.png )


Shields only deflect incoming fire, they do not interfere with our own weapons.

Could you verify if you are suggesting a larger ground turret or an orbital turret? I can give you an RP estimate if you do.

The shield wraps not far in front of the armor, so it doesn't matter if a missile is detonated by it or not. What it does is reduce the impulse from the ensuing explosion.

Our shields cannot be burst-charged or directionally oriented as a result of its design.

Since the shields do not extend far from the armor, a 'tanking' ship would have to be able to physically obscure the ships it protects, which makes it not a very efficient way of protecting them.

The shields in no way interfere with FTL or communications. The shielding required to protect an asteroid depends on the asteroid's size. Based on the way the shields work, it is a much better idea to simply individually shield every building in a city than to make a giant bubble over everything.

The shields themselves cannot be used to alter inertia. They do not help much at all when trying to reduce a collision with a massive body.

Not that these things only apply to the Disruptive Shell. Other similar technologies down the line may or may not be bound by these constraints.
No. 47439 ID: 453e62

how about upgrading the moon gun from rail to warpslug? giant bullet going hyper speed.
No. 47442 ID: 6af537

>Could you verify if you are suggesting a larger ground turret or an orbital turret? I can give you an RP estimate if you do.
I'm suggesting 1) upgrading existing turrets with shields, and 2) maybe looking into larger installations for ground-to-orbit defense. Motivation for (1) is that since it's all on the ground, we can afford to install disproportionately powerful shields, making such emplacements tough nuts to crack. As for the bigger "turrets" (it's probably better to call them cannons), I'm not sure if our current tech level allows for something truly effective against ships in orbit; thus an RP quote with approximate projected capabilities would be appreciated.
No. 47459 ID: 31f32d

>We waste 6 month researching shields instead of translating the archive of all knowledge of the race from whom we got dimensional travel and other cool shit.
>Enemies arrive to root us out.
>We must fight them or lose opportunity forever to acquire priceless knowledge.

Goddammit, I warned about this, other warned about this... But no, who the fuck cares if this is our one and ONLY chance to loot the mother fucking archive of all the knowledge of super advanced race. Who cares if they could find us at any minute... No we want to waste our fucking time on useless shit.

Well I hope you guys are happy.
No. 47463 ID: c0bb4e

Hey, what are our infantry using for armor, other than ceramics? Is it still Kevlar? if not (or if it still is) how much stronger is it?
No. 47466 ID: 453e62

yes, because we now have weapons that can break their shields and have shields of our own.
No. 47467 ID: c0bb4e

The shields don't completely protect us. They only lessen the damage. Also, I'm just curious.
No. 47468 ID: 453e62

by a moderate amount. so turns heavy damage into normal damage, normal into light, and light into negligible. if we encounter only medium size vessels we can outfight them easy as our ships will not take much damage.and if we wipe out the fleet then we gain the most valuable resource, time. the longer we can stay at one spot the better.
No. 47469 ID: c0bb4e

Wasn't talking about ships, but okay...
No. 47470 ID: 31f32d

1. We had those weapons before you.
2. The shields were gonna be done either way, if we did archive first then the shields would be done 4 months from now.
3. While it is true I misunderstood and thought they are coming at the archive (which would have been ruinous). We now must now fight prematurely and WIN... because if we escape or lose (and then escape) we would (in either case) disrupt our research progress and must remain there longer, which potentially exposes us to losing it before we decipher it.

Either way it is a critical danger we could have avoided by doing archive followed by shields.

However, we can still make it.
No. 47471 ID: 1854db

We would've avoided jack shit by doing the archive first. We JUST built that colony, do you really think the citizenry would react well to uprooting already?

That's the main reason I want to try to fight. Not because we have to, but because I want to avoid a huge public outcry. Also because I think we have a chance of winning with recoverable losses.
No. 47472 ID: 453e62

indeed, a victory against a breaker fleet is just the thing we need to boost moral.
No. 47474 ID: f31dfc

Not only that, but we could scavenge some scraps from the remains. Even if it is mostly unusable by us, we could possibly use remnants from their shields to upgrade our own or find more effective means to pierce theirs. Heck, if we are very lucky, we may even find their black boxes if they have them.
No. 47476 ID: 453e62

yeah, a single intact shield generator would go a LONG way for science. a central computer would also be great, let us figure out their protocols and be able to engage in electronic warfare.
No. 47482 ID: 786012

Er, I'm sorry for nagging but I'm going to request more clarifications on the shields. Because to me it seems that there are... inconsistencies.

First of all, a collection of canon descriptions of the shields:
>reducing sudden forces and energies that pass through it by a moderate amount
Whatever this "moderate amount" is is subject to debate. More on this point further.
>equally effective against kinetic and energy weapons
Looks like some kinetic energy sapping effect.
>cannot be deactivated by firepower
This means that the shield effects all simultaneous incoming attacks equally.
>Infantry shields make small arms much less deadly but do little against heavier munitions, while naval shields can significantly weaken powerful shots from enemy ships.
This means that the shields act not like "multiply attack force by the disruption coefficient" but "subtract a certain amount of potency from the attack".

Now, returning to the first quote. Note the word "sudden". It implies that a gradual buildup of the attacking force will bypass the effects of the shield. That means that, while a bullet or a railgun shell will be subject to the effects of the shield, a laser that gradually increases its potency from "red dot on the wall" to "burn right through said wall and whatever it hides" might go unimpeded.

Now remember the communications. When you said that comms are not effected, did you mean radio? Because if "energy attacks" get affected then "lasers" are too (as a subclass of said energy attacks), and that in turn means that tight-beam communications carriers (laser- or infrared-based) might be affected.

Is all of this correct?

Next, on to inertia compensation issue. What I actually meant was not inertia compensation per se, but providing cushioning for loose objects in a suddenly accelerating vehicle.
Quoting you:
> [shields] do not help much at all when trying to reduce a collision with a massive body.
This is subject to relativity. The shields help quite a lot when trying to reduce a collision of a bullet with a (relatively) massive soldier. I was thinking that maybe we can implement such "interceptors"/"cushions" to help with, including but not limited to:
- Amortization of cargo and/or passengers and/or drivers.
- "Ballistic" transport systems: shoot the crate/cabin/landing pod from one side, catch it on the other side. Experimentation (read: your sanction) needed to determine if the shield on a lighter moving object (landing pod) significantly/noticeably affect collision with a more massive stationary object (planet).
- An extension of the previous is such a "cushion" helping with fighters landing on a carrier. If we can help with braking at the end of the way, we could shave some seconds off by reducing the need to brake along that same way (when approaching the carrier).

But wait, there's more!

Looking at your designs, the shield effect volume is actually a thin "sphere" around the shield generator.

(This is actually quite strange when coupled with your assertions that the shields 1) can't be extended farther from the hull and 2) can't be oriented. On one hand, such proximity requirement implies emitters being situated all over this hull, as otherwise (in the case of a single central generator) the shield radius is only determined by said generator's hardware parameters and/or power, both of which can be altered to increase the radius, contradicting (1). On the other hand, if these are indeed emitters, each individual one is responsible for only a little patch of the whole shield sphere, and that means inherent orientation, contradicting (2). Does not compute.)

Now, suppose a long solid object (say, a long missile) is entering into a hole on a big shielded object (say, a hole previously blown into the side of a ship). Suppose also that its entering velocity is such that the time in which the object intersects the shield effect volume (SEV) is non-negligible (say, a second or two).
Q1: Is the object affected by the shield for the duration of the whole time period when it intersects with the SEV?

Q2, which I should have asked sooner: How thick is SEV?

Q3: Am I right in assuming that this shield does not break physics and affects only the matter that is directly within the SEV?

Now, another thought experiment. Suppose we are throwing a small object into a strong shield with a very small initial velocity.
Q4: Is there a threshold for kinetic energy of the entering material below which the shield does not affect the object? And, generalizing this,
Q5: What is the (at least approximate) dependency of shield effect from entering matter's kinetic energy?

... Actually, now that I've written this wall of text, I'll understand if you just say "stop trying to apply your already defective physics knowledge to a sci-fi future tech and just have fun already dammit!". However, I feel that this discussion will help all of us understand and invent more uses for these shiny new exciting technologies.
No. 47483 ID: 453e62

dot laser power up may bypass it, but are you really going to stay still and let that happen?
No. 47484 ID: 786012

If the target is big enough (like a tank), it isn't too hard to just keep that target in sights for a bit, even while both of you are maneuvering. Modern tanks can do that already.
No. 47485 ID: 453e62

i mean, what's stopping us from shooting them before the laser gets strong enough?
No. 47486 ID: 786012

Their shields. The fact that there might be many of them and only few of us. It all depends on the circumstances.
No. 47487 ID: 453e62

if there are enough that we can't focus fire on the ones doing the laser show it wont matter because there are enough to destroy us anyway.
No. 47536 ID: a611d6

Upgrading the Interplanetary Railgun to warpslug tech will take 45 SC, 75 BP and 5 RP. The cannon will no longer consume SC to fire, will be more powerful and can attack enemy ships in the planetary system.

Most infantry armor consists of ceramic plates over a tough synthetic fabric. This makes them resistant to small arms fire, tearing and environmental hazards.

I understand your inquisitiveness and your questions have given me a lot to ponder about.

Hopefully this attempt at implementing the shields will suffice for you.

Ignore the designs, the bubble extends only slightly around the hull. The shield settles on the mass around it, which is why you don't need to cover the hull with emitters (also it means ground units don't get shielding on the parts that come in contact with the ground)

The shield itself is pretty soft on the sci-fi scale. When a sudden impulse hits the shield, the energy (mechanical or electromagnetic) is distributed across the particles in the shield, which then disperse into harmless radiation. The particles are 'refreshed' rapidly by the emitters. The shield doesn't help much against impact with larger bodies in the same way metal armor won't help much against falling off a bridge. The shield doesn't slow you down at all, and you cant really use the shield to disperse a massive body you collide with.

The reason slower/less energetic things can go through easily is because of the way its calibrated. It's designed to let low level energy like visible light, dust particles, or various methods of communication go through it.

You bring up a good point with the missiles, but as of now there are no missiles that go slowly enough not to activate the shield. The gradual laser, at a certain energy level, would activate the shield, but its continuous nature would cause it to overwhelm the 'refreshing' of the shield. Fortunately, all energy weapons we have seen are pulse-based.

Long story short: The shields conveniently (or unconventionally) tend to only react to things like weapons fire.

If there is something I missed or misunderstood, please let me know and I'll try my best to satisfy your questions with an explanation.
No. 47567 ID: 6af537

Tough luck, sorry :p
>The shield settles on the mass around it, which is why you don't need to cover the hull with emitters (also it means ground units don't get shielding on the parts that come in contact with the ground)
This is kinda unclear. How does the shield generator determine where the shielded object ends and the planet starts? Because short of hovering vehicles, everything else is ultimately in contact with the ground.

Next, about missiles, am I to understand that if there's a hole in an otherwise solid hull, the shield won't cover this hole but will instead cover the insides of this hole? Or, in layman terms, no soap film thingy for us? Like, for example, hangars in Star Wars?

Also, what are the effects of the shields on living beings?
No. 47569 ID: 1854db

How does gravity work on ships? Is it done by rotation or do they have some form of artificial gravity that somehow has no other scientific applications?
No. 47570 ID: 453e62

most likely it doesn't and spreads in a very small puddle around the shielded thing.
No. 47574 ID: 6af537

If that's the case, our MBTs will be known throughout the universe as the Slime Tanks.
No. 47664 ID: 1854db

Yes, the warpslug doesn't have enough range to snipe them from half a turn away or anything.

>Also, from the Demise we have no idea about how the planet buster even looks like, which suggests that it's not that distinctive from other Breaker ships, which in turn suggests that all our moon-based defenses might be annihilated with one strike and we'll know about that only when the Moon Cannon shells start raining upon our planet-side base.
Um... hang on, don't get all paranoid now. We may not know what the planet buster ship looks like, but you can bet it'll be recognizable since it'll have a huge fuckoff gun on it.

Also there are probably other planets in the system with moons; we won't have to worry too much about attack angles. Besides, unless the planet is really close to the moon there's not a very large blind spot. They'd probably have to know ahead of time to use that angle of approach. Oh, and we'd definitely know if the moon's defenses get destroyed since we have instant communication devices and also sensors.

And yeah the ships we had during the Demise weren't any good against the Breakers. We have waaaaay better weapons now tho! Like, way way better. Also shields. Though we have to build them first.
No. 47665 ID: 6af537

>don't get all paranoid now
You know, I think I really might be paranoid and/or panic-y. On the other hand, it's not really paranoia if someone's out there to get you. On the third hand, if it drives me to increase our development rate/mobility/otherwise improve, then why not?

Also, this link might be relevant.
No. 47671 ID: e07105

You know, if position for the moon cannon is a problem, why not make a rail system for it? Have a set of tracks that run on the latitude and longitude of the moon so we can re-position the cannon for any direction. Heck, we could likely make a battleship and attach a moon cannon instead of a orbital bombardment array to use as a ship killer.

As for paranoia or being worried about this and that, we have honestly never fought in a capital ship fight like this. We have no idea how powerful OR weak our current armaments are and I consider that more of a problem. Right now the enemy is relatively small. 3 destroyer class ships with breaker tech. Now, we have seen breaker tech before. Mainly for ground units, but we have none the less. We can assume that breakers have the same style of weaponry on their ships as they do on their ground forces. In that regard, we have the better weapons. We do not know the true strength of their shields, but we can solve that with several pot shots.

As for the whole they will come back in bigger numbers? Yeah, that's a given. However, they are not fast compared to our ships and to mobilize an entire fleet of high class ships would not only take a lot of time, but the sheer girth of them will have us see them a mile away.

In short, it's not a feasible strategy for the Breakers right now. A feasible one is to HAVE us continue moving. We have a set limit on what we can take with us as stated before and if we continue to move, we can't build big ships that can take them down. The three ships we have right now will take many turns to finish. Many, MANY turns. We flee and we can't take them with us. Even a modular ship would have to be made piece by piece and it would still take time for each piece. Further more, if we ever run into a Totus aligned planet, then we may be boned.

Running in a dire situation is OK, but we need to build up our army and fleet if we want to last in the long term. That means we need to bunker down, build stuff, train our workers, military and professionals, and build alliances with other alien races so they don't ally with Totus. If we don't try, we won't win.
No. 47687 ID: d60029

>rail system
That'd be cool.

Also yeah, can we design a ship that is one giant cannon with (some smaller ones for point defense and) engines? Sheer kinetic energy of a shot from such a thing could probably rip a breaker ship a new one.

Or an orbital weapons platform/battlestation.

Also, suppose you're a Breaker fleet slowly chugging through the warp towards the unholy Splinter planet, when suddenly a blip appears on your scanners, indicating a ship (or a fleet; is that discernible?) approaching you and de-warping a short distance before you. Would you de-warp too to destroy this ship/fleet?
Counter-question: how much armor and explosives do we have to stuff into such a ship for it to be able to suicide-bomb a Breaker fleet stupid enough to de-warp? Are there any ways to forcibly de-warp them, or just explode with enough force to affect those in the warp?
No. 47692 ID: a611d6

The shield slightly extends to the area around the treads/boots/whatever of the shielded unit, but the material we use as armor is a better "conductor" of the shield than the ground, so it doesn't extend far.

There is no "soap-bubble" effect with the shields.

The shield does not interfere with living beings at all.

Living and command quarters of the ship rotate.

Just to clarify, the Interplanetary gun can easily bombard other planets in the system, but the speed at which starships move makes it much more difficult to hit ships that are not at least in the same planetary system as it is in, even considering the extremely high-velocity Warpslug rounds. Still, it will garner plenty of free hits before the enemy ships get in range, and can make life somewhat more uncomfortable for enemy ships orbiting around a different planet.

There is no need to worry about placement of the Moon Cannon if you just want to defend a base and the fleet above it: place it in the city you want to defend. This wont stop hostile fleets from dropping troops on the other side of the world, however.

Give some specifics for an orbital defense platform and I'll throw you an RP estimate.

Ships are indiscernible to fleets when not in roughly the same point on the map. The composition of a fleet becomes known when inside the same star system or in combat range.

Anything capable of FTL can force other ships out of FTL to engage it in combat. In star systems, this is a bit longer than maximum effective range of our guns, which generally extends a little beyond than a planetary system's radius. Ships can also intercept each other in deep space.

Ships actually in FTL transit cannot be targeted or damaged by any means.

To answer Juroko's request for a Diplomat-mine in the main thread, the cost would be 7 RP to research. The mine would automatically attack any ships within combat range, but as it lacks an FTL drive it cannot attack ships in FTL transit.
No. 47693 ID: eb83a6

>Anything capable of FTL can force other ships out of FTL
Can this effect be targeted, and if so, how precisely? I'm thinking of seeding the star system (its outskirts) with sensors/de-warpers (maybe accompanied with automated weapons platforms, like the diplomat mines) in order to automatically give our Moon Cannons a head start on shelling the enemy, but I'm worried that this might interfere with our own ships.
No. 47703 ID: 437934


what if we gave it an FTL drive?
No. 47706 ID: e07105

Hmmmm... in terms of what we talked about, why not make a 'fake' ship? A decoy of sorts? Have it appear as a smaller ship on the radar but make it nothing more than what is needed to fool it. We could set up a few mines near the decoy as well. If it works, the enemy may spend some time searching for other ships in the area and buy us some time if not have them search a different area in hopes they found us.

If we do make this decoy though, I say we name it the S.S. Troll Face.
No. 47708 ID: 6af537

Yeah, that was about my general idea. Although if it proves effective, the "Trollface" will have to be its class name, like Test Patterns and the like.
No. 47754 ID: e4a136

As an aside, are the galt a manufactured race or another naturally occurring one like the humans?

Considering the obvious social and behavioral similarities, it's entirely possible that they will get genocided as well.
No. 47760 ID: eb672d

The Galt are natural and very likely skirting the edge of Breakers popping up to ruin their shit. However, they have been bros to us and we may want to help them construct a means to protect themselves and escape.

Right now, they have a thriving industry. We could possibly trade raw goods and luxury items for labor. Maybe make more ships?
No. 47762 ID: eb83a6

Their labor force would only be able to supplant the need for workers and maybe some materials, while we'll have to provide professionals. And that's a scarce resource for us. Although the negotiations on this should definitely be started.

On a totally unrelated note, the recent discussion gave me an idea: we should totally steal the Necrons' Great Warding.
(For those not familiar with WH40K, The Great Warding is a set of installations built by Necrons that prevent all access to the Warp in a radius. There are many such installations, so the total exclusion volume is measured in light years. Necrons themselves have an alternative fast transport system that doesn't rely on the Warp, unlike everybody else in that setting.)
The relevant tech should be somewhere down the Warp Tech subtree, research of which would (in more immediate future) give us the speed to catch up with those stealth transports. And probably some teleport tech is in there too.

Although that's such a megaproject that we should at least finish those getting-professionals-fast techs (tac implants and memory mods).

Yeah, this is another iteration of "what to research after the archive" discussion. IIRC we've pretty much agreed that next should be tac implants (upgrade for troops + no risk of death on implanting), followed by memory mods (fast profs). Then a quick skim of the thread gives two suggestions:
1) comp systems V, then whatever comes from that and memory mods (I'll hazard a guess that it'll be true AI);
2) warp 3;
3) custom projects from posters, like that Juroko mine, or the Trollface decoy, or something else.

The CS-5 might give us something for those automated DIPLOMAT caps for indicating that it's a missile, not a profession stations we've discussed. Warp 3 is likely to get us another speed upgrade, and might open paths to what I've described above.

Which do we want more?
No. 47763 ID: 453e62

except we use the EXACT SAME method of FTL just have better speed with it.

and we need to wait until archive is done before deciding what next because it is linked into a lot of new research options.
No. 47765 ID: 6af537

Well duh. Obviously we'd need another FTL method before we do that, just like the ones we're ripping off.
No. 47767 ID: 453e62

No. 47768 ID: 6af537

We will obviously need another way to go FTL before we begin construction of permanent anti-warp wards. So that our own ships are not affected. Because that would be counter-productive.
No. 47769 ID: 453e62

well, see, the reason the necrons could use the other method is they were ROBOTS. they don't need inertia compensation. a living thing on a necron ship would of been turned to paste from the G-forces involved.
No. 47771 ID: 6af537

Who says we can't have inertia compensators? (Or a fast cloning system + consciousness uploads.)
Also, portals. (Maybe that's what that tech that needs Warp3 and Archive is about...)
And, finally, this doesn't have to be exactly the same method as used by necrons; this is not WH40K, after all. This universe can, with the blessing of Ed, have an alternative FTL drive.
No. 47772 ID: 453e62

i'm saying you are getting presumptuous and making super detailed plans for something that may not even exist.
No. 47774 ID: eb672d

Honestly, we should try and have the 'fast' techs done first. The ones with low tens or single digit RPs. They are mostly defensive/delay objects that can aid us in dealing with future foes.

After that, memory mods and tactical implants, followed by the other stuff.

HOWEVER, we should also wait to see what the archive unlocks first. For all we know, it may offer us a few good items.
No. 47778 ID: eb83a6

Yeah, you're right. However, the side-effect is that I'm giving ideas to the OP.
No. 48334 ID: ed57e8

except he already has most of this planned out before.
No. 50043 ID: 385f21

Question time!
Do the Juroko mines have sensors?
If yes, what's their range?
If it's smaller than ships', can we haz Automated Remote Surveillance and Interception Vessels (proposed codename Beholder, open for discussion) that have several missiles and sensor arrays and are remote-controlled from HQ via insta-com? Please give us estimates for RP and BP costs both with FTL engines included and excluded.
No. 50158 ID: 1854db

Hey Ed, what would be the RP cost for a Juroko-like structure that uses a Warpslug cannon instead of Diplomats?
No. 50159 ID: ed57e8

that is a order of magnitude above a juroko. would be defense platform.
No. 55363 ID: 6af537

Can't we use modern astronomic methods to get at least approximate maps of far-away stars? Build (radio)telescopes, including orbital ones...
No. 55742 ID: 2563d4

>The End
Our airship isn't docked at the tower we're currently in, is it?
No. 63544 ID: 0511b7

Speaking of modular designs, can we build a ship in separate sections then join them together, like this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship

Presumably, such technique is already in use, emulated by using ground BP to assist orbital BP, but can we expand on it using recently developed technology?
No. 63594 ID: fb9917

Earlier in some part of the discussion threads or something I think Ed said we could build carriers/battleships from the engine forward so that we could partially complete them and still have them able to fly, with like a small bridge attachment, although not combat worthy.

If we really want to gain in efficiency we are pretty much limited to looking at stuff on the ground at this point. We could get a fair amount of benefit from researching massive versions of some of our most worker intensive building types, since they are like 20% more efficient to build and run than large buildings, and right now we can't afford to implant everyone with neural implants anyways, even if we had the infrastructure set up to do so. Costs like 12000 sc to get everyone implanted, or in a more conservative number about 1800 to implant all our nonworkers not currently in training. So even though we can have casualty free neural implants with memory mods in 6 turns or so, we might want to consider putting some research into Massive Derricks or Factories, maybe Massive Luxury Complex for housing, since we still need a lot of resources for implantation. And then we also need implantation points from hospitals to do the actual implanting, and currently we have...1 small medical outpost. So with medical districts, the large version of hospitals, we get 9 IP per turn which means 90 people can be implanted. We probably need Massive Medical Districts if we intend to ramp up implanting, in addition to the superconductors we need to build the things. I'm rambling but basically we need more resources to turn our nonworkers into productive members of society. We should reevaluate our research path after this next update comes up and we find out what we can learn from the Breaker ships.

We should probably have the Contemno head over to Conrix to be refitted with Warp 3 and then send it out to scout Incipient, since that's the only universe available to us we haven't been to that isn't either dangerously close to Totus' primary universe or completely exhausted of usable resources ('Home'). We know that the Breakers outnumber us in this universe given the information our new alien friends gave us. I want to help them but I don't think we can safely take on what, four capital ships? And a handful of destroyers and escorts. We need either a bigger tech advantage or a lot more ships.
No. 63617 ID: fb9917

MINOR AUTOMATION - You can reduce the amount of workers (not professionals) a building needs by up to 10%, at a cost of 2 SC and 10 METAL for 10 workers.

Is this tech actually being used or did we just research it forever ago and then forget we had it?
No. 63668 ID: f2c20c

I believe we used it a couple times then wound up with more Workers than we needed, and so it's not worth the SC anymore. Professionals are our bottleneck.
No. 63873 ID: 0511b7

Mobile orbital factories are still 50 RP, right?

How fast massive OF will be?
No. 64699 ID: fb9917

So I just noticed the little bit of text from when we got Disruptive Shell describing how many shells ships actually require. I thought we needed like 16 shells to cover everything but actually we need like 60. That's a lot of shells! Shells for our buildings would cost even more than that, although if we researched massive buildings we could cut that number down a lot, potentially.

I'm thinking we might want to send the Galts a few hundred SC. We have a couple SC derricks coming online next turn so we could probably spare them some to get some actual spaceships online so they could actually start some SC mining operations of their own. I think that volcanic planet isn't that far from them? It has SC. We could make up what we sent them in a few turns and it could speed up their transition to a war footing by a LOT more than that. If we want ships to fight the Breakers guarding the colonial organism guys we should probably do SOMETHING to speed up the rate at which the Galts can help us build ships. Given how effective our weapons were, it looks like we wouldn't even need that many more ships to have really good odds against the Breaker guard fleets, if they had Shells. Also we can have them build Diplomats for us. Those are really effective and we are going to need a lot of them.
No. 64700 ID: bf54a8

these we only small ships, we have no idea how their shield tech scales. it could be exponential for all we know, and a breaker battleship is thousands of times tougher then a frigate. if we are lucky it's linearm but it would still need a significantly larger amount of firepower to punch through. at the moment the only thing i have a reasonable hope of punching through a the shields of the battlehship is a moon cannon. if we could make an even bigger gun, and mount it to our own battlehship, THEN i will let us fight a larger fleet and not be scared as hell.

also, the battleship would be named the yamato.
No. 64715 ID: fb9917

About the soonest we could get a new battleship is 4 years, and that's sort of optimistic since we probably don't want to start building a battleship on a planet they already found. We will know how their shield tech scales a lot earlier than that...given our current rate of research we will have another 3000 RP by the end of those four years. Somehow I doubt the breaker shields are a 2000 RP tech.

Also I didn't really mean attack now, I meant finish more shells, get more diplomats (we can swap out a warpslug cannon for a diplomat pod on any of our ships) probably get some more bombers for our Carrier to launch since each bomber can launch a single diplomat and a single diplomat can be very significant...but do we really want to wait 4+ years to help these guys? And if we are waiting that long, we definitely need to send the Galts some SC aid, because otherwise they are likely going to lose their homeworld. I really don't want to be responsible for that.

Also we have some options for making the battle go more in our favor. The stealth bombing ship that was proposed a while ago would be able to potentially cripple some Breaker ships before we actually engaged in a full scale battle, and from what we have seen it doesn't seem like the Breakers actually know how to repair their own tech...apparently they leave that sort of thing to a different species in their group...Makers? So any damage we do ahead of time could potentially stay around. We also have Jurokos and Decoy Ship tech, which could be used to set a trap for Breaker fleets, although we would need to actually build some of those.

I do really want a battleship with a really big gun though. Just like build the whole ship around one really big warpslug lance. Is that possible? Also larger ship classes than the battleship potentially would be much more durable because of the way Disruptive Shell scales. I wonder how big a ship would need to be to be immune to the Breaker ship to ship weapons we have encountered so far with Disruptive Shell.
No. 64733 ID: 51a2e0

Oh boy, my ideas are getting revisited! Yay! Feels like years.

Well, the reason why I developed Juroko mines was as a means to protect key strategic spots. Either as a boost to military might, or as a basic defense for planets. We can very easily set up a 'asteroid belt' mine field around places we want to protect. Decoys can also serve as this. Just set mines up in them.

When it comes to our alien buddies, we should not wait TOO long. Enemies will keep coming and we need to make sure we are able to free them while they still take us lightly and before they use scorched earth tactics. Get the Galt protected, then try freeing one or two of the weakly guarded planets. Shore them up, and continue.

Also, NEVER skimp on making ships. They still have a numbers advantage so we need to keep up the assembly line. A lost ship in a small fleet is too big a lost and the time where they send everyone down on us may soon come. Anti-ship ships are important and I did pitch a few ideas like that before. I can likely find them again and tweak them a bit. I believe they were the Eden-Class Cruiser and the Yamato-Class Battlecruiser.
No. 64739 ID: f2c20c

I disagree about the Galts building Diplomats for us. That's currently our strongest technology and having it in the hands of anyone else is risky. Our Warpslug weaponry was comparable in effectiveness anyway, and they have that already.
No. 64740 ID: 51a2e0

Right then, since people will likely not remember(or look in the actual thread), here is the design for the Yamato-Class Battle Cruiser and Eden-Class Carrier. Also, because I am nice, have a new idea- the Overlord-Class Carrier

Features: The Yamato is a anti-space battle ship. Spacing the cannons out to deal with enemies from any angle and designing the cannons' mountings to focus more on piercing and penetration power, the Yamato would be designed to smack the ever loving crap out of enemy ships. To drive this home, the Yamato gives up it's orbital bombardment array for the ability to mount a Lunar Cannon Class Cannon (or as many as Ed will allow) on the bow of the ship. After all, why keep the big guns at home? The down side is the specialty piercing rounds would do little damage to ground forces and cause reduced splash. Not only that, but due to the position of the guns, not all of them can fire on the planet effectively. Still, in a battleship vs Yamato fight, the Yamato would have the upper hand... with a big stick in it.

Pros: 1.5x efficiency in space combat.
Better ship armor penetration.
Able to mount Lunar Cannon to ship for combat.

Cons: Can only use half the ship's guns for orbital bombardment.
Splash and area damage of the bombardment is reduced.
No nuclear bombardment array.
Simply put, the Eden class would be like a small portable colony by using and modifying the carrier's base design meant for carrying large ammounts of goods and using said space as modular points for buildings. Better climate control, state of the art tech to make it a relatively nice place to live on, and maybe some built in apartments so the crew can live comfortably. I can see this sort of ship hold pretty decent sized buildings or a bit of every type. However, I can also see this thing guzzle gas like a old mini van which would mean any weaponry that uses energy by the buckets or uses alot of space for ammo would be a bad idea. Hell, probably would have a lot less guns too for additional space. It's no planet ship, but it would be better than stuffing a few labs on a couple of ships.

Pros: Designed for the crew to be pretty well cared for so it would likely have a moral boost. Possibly able to deal with larger groups of people without being over crowded.

Modular set up inside so that it can fit various buildings. Not sure how many but likely a good number of mediums or a Large or two.

Cons: Would need gas to move, gas to make power for the buildings, and gas to maintain the living standard. This is NOT a fuel friendly build.

Reduced space to put in more buildings. Got to give and take.

Weaponry would likely be cut back a bit and even then, the reduced space would mean weapons requiring lots of space would be rather unwise to equip.
Overlord- Cruiser Class ship.

Where the Eden is a ship designed for comfort and production, the Overlord is the opposite. Use it's large holds to hold fighters, mobile weapon platforms, and tons of troops for your invasion/boarding needs. This is the sort of ship that does well with robotic... well, EVERYTHING. It's not designed for comfort, mundane storage, or even standard combat. It's a mobile deployment center and it's built for it. Hell, we could likely develope a sort of drop pod for Robotic units(or possibly very strong units) to be rapidly deployed onto the battle site. For the man who loves to rush!

Pros: More Hangers for fighters, mobile weapon platforms, and other such things.
+Designed for rapid release of fighters, and for boarding enemy ships.
+Drop pods for Robots and sturdy units to allow rapid deployment.

Cons: Little space for regular storage.
Not designed for comfort. Will likely annoy and lower moral in civvies.
Space for hangers and boarding zones will likely take up some weapon space.
No. 64757 ID: fb9917

I have a bunch of ship and vehicle ideas but we are about to have access to a Breaker ship for the first time ever and I don't want to spend RP on something that might be obsolete in a few turns if we learn something important from the ship so I'm waiting for a tech tree update very impatiently. bluh

On another note, for some reason we have a TON of unemployed workers on the Archive planet, and I think at some point those guys were on Conrix but were moved over to Hothouse??? Does anyone know why that was done? Because if not they would probably be more useful on Conrix digging up metal/SC or manning another ground factory to produce diplomats/shells.
No. 64928 ID: 3734f6

since plasma is the most effective against shields but not too good against armor.
Would it be possible to make a hybrid weapon that places a small shield breaching amount of plasma in the path of the warpslug slug? (either integrating it into the slug, or making an integrated cannon?)
No. 64932 ID: bf54a8

alread had that idea, and went one step further. this is obviously only for extra large shell used by the moon gun but. take a slug, hollow it out and put in magnetic stabilizers. in the core place as much anti-matter as you can. then wrap the whole slug in plasma, when fire the plasma sheath will burn a hole throw the shields for the warpslug to breach, it will then embed in the enemy hull, the pressure of impact will warp it's shape a little breaking the magnetic confinement of the anti-matter letting it free to contact normal matter causing a detonation. being embedded in the enemy ship it would cause massive damage.
No. 64938 ID: 3734f6

sounds awesome
... we have anti matter manufacturing and containment tech? since when?
No. 64940 ID: bf54a8

we have anti-matter tech sitting on the tech tree. just need to get it.
No. 64941 ID: fb9917

Not yet. Rudimentary antimatter fab is a 650 RP tech. Still quite a ways away. Probably pretty good, though. Warpslug was only 150 rp, and diplomats another 30.
No. 66200 ID: 370c40

how many RP for Gester wizards

do we have to catch elves first lets catch some elves
No. 66202 ID: f2c20c

Well, magic is apparently powered by Totus so I doubt we'll be able to do much with it unless we can figure out how to hack whatever mechanism he's using to send out the energy. If we do that and start using it in mass quantities, Totus might wind up shutting down all magic.

Which is okay if you ask me.
No. 66210 ID: 5d98c3

That would be pretty funny, AND render all the Space Elves and Snarrens totally useless.
No. 66242 ID: 370c40

Man we should research some kind of chemical gas grenade. Also can we use plasma tech to produce some kind of satchel charge? Like an alternate option to the light vehicle rockets maybe?
No. 66244 ID: bf54a8

we have gas genades and stuff. we just didn't have any on the ships. cause they are in space.

next time they are back in port we should update their loadouts so they are standard. also large tanks to flood the whole ship with so if the breakers manage to board us instead we can just fill the ship.
No. 66247 ID: 370c40

We don't have a light slot or heavy slot option for chemical weapons, and as for grenades I don't know if we have any that infantry can carry. Probably the Commandos have explosives, but those are spec ops guys and too valuable to risk in direct combat. I also am not sure how heavy a weapon our cyborgs can carry. Can max strength cyborgs carry medium weapons? What about light? Can power troopers carry light slot weapons?
No. 66248 ID: 5d98c3

We DESPERATELY need some kind of light, automatic chemical weapon. Like, some kind of armorpiercing round that leaves traces of nervegas in wounds or something.
No. 66253 ID: 370c40

We have an infantry slot gasser, but our heavier infantry can use light slot weapons, I think, and we don't have a light slot chemical weapon.
No. 66255 ID: bf54a8

i mean , we HAVE gas grenade BLUEPRINTS but we haven't BUILT any yet. when we get the chance we need to build some.
No. 66564 ID: bf45bb
File 135922948920.png - (3.59KB , 259x152 , SHC6.png )

I'd figure I'd clear things up about combat accuracy.

Nearly all infantry and the lightest vehicles only have 1 HP. Commandos/Nightmares, BRICs, MLRS, SPAAGs, Light Gunships have 2 HP. MBTs, APCs, Heavy Gunships have 3 HP. Dropships have 6 HP.

Most infantry and light vehicle weapons, and some medium vehicle weapons, do 1 damage. The rest do 2-3 damage.

The base chance for a unit to avoid weapons fire is %50. There are things that can greatly vary this chance, however.

Things that increase evasion chance:
-Elite soldiers have better evasion
-Having Armor and Shields higher than the Armor Penetration and Shield Penetration of the firing weapon. If the Armor and Shield is high enough, the accuracy can be reduced to less than 0 (e.g. using a basic assault rifle against a tank)
-Taking cover (I noticed I did a poor job of displaying cover in the last combat, I'll improve on this to make it clearer)
-The unit firing upon the target has been fired upon by more than one enemy last turn (i.e. suppressive fire)
-The unit firing upon the target is using Fire on the Move
-The unit firing upon the target is engaged in melee combat
-The unit being fired upon is stealthed or concealed
-The unit being fired upon is moving quickly
-The unit being fired upon is not taking any actions (it is assumed they are spending the time to take cover)

Things that decrease evasion chance:
-The unit firing upon the target is an elite of some kind
-Weapons with specific bonuses against certain targets reduces targets evasion (e.g. flamethrowers vs infantry, auto-targeting missiles vs fast enemies)
-The unit firing on the target is within 2 hexes (this bonus is overridden if it is engaged in melee combat)
-The unit being fired upon is caught off guard
-The unit being fired upon is really big.

Things that don't effect evasion chance:
-Having more Armor Pen. or Shield Pen. than the target has Armor and Shields doesn't further increase the accuracy. (e.g. a railgun shot doesn't have more accuracy than an assault rifle against a totally unarmored opponent)

For aerial combat, fixed wing craft move too fast to really put on the battlefield. Instead, if you bring them to a fight, they are on standby and can be called to perform an operation on the battlefield. You can bring a squadron of Interceptors to clear the skies, or make a bombing run on a certain part of the battlefield. They are not invincible, however. Each enemy AA unit on the battlefield has a chance to gun down operating aircraft. This chance increases if the target operates closer to the AA unit.

Gunships and Dropships are treated mostly the same as ground units.

Standard Light Infantry can carry their primary Infantry weapon and one piece of equipment. The light anti-armor missile launcher is the default, but you can ask them to bring whatever you can think of. Grenades, another Infantry weapon, explosives. Whatever you want, let me know what you wish them to carry and I'll tell you what its good for. You won't need to worry about research or producing standard equipment like basic frag grenades, satchel charges or low-tech special guns like sniper rifles. If you want them to bring more exotic things like plasma-based explosives, you'll need to have them built and researched first, though as infantry equipment they'll be rather cheap.

Max strength implanted soldiers and Power Troopers can both carry at most a Light vehicle weapon (miniguns and light plasma cannons). They also can carry the same kit as Light Infantry if you want. If the infantry carry around a Light Vehicle weapon, they don't get to carry around any special equipment due to the large quantity of ammunition they must bring. (This also is makes Light Infantry still viable due to their flexibility in combat, despite their weaker armor and weapon)
No. 66581 ID: 370c40

So Apex Troopers are really good, then, since they get an upgrade to the backup equipment they carry?

Also plasma-based explosives sound pretty good, since even if we later pick up the antimatter fab tech antimatter explosives would probably be really prone to high collateral damage. What sort of RP cost would we have for plasma based explosives?
No. 66588 ID: f2c20c

Well that explains why our gunships got shot down so much. They're about as durable as power troopers.
No. 66607 ID: bf54a8

same HP different armor.
No. 66650 ID: 370c40

Not seeing anything about power troopers having 2 hp, just Commandos and Nightmares. So I think gunships actually have twice as much HP as power troopers? And also more armor.
No. 66663 ID: f2c20c

Oh, dur. You're right.

BRICs have 2 HP... Maybe we should use them more.
No. 66667 ID: 370c40

BRICs seem pretty good with these rules, so yeah we should probably use them more. They are cheap and they have 4 medium weapon slots. Not sure if they can fit onto a boarding mission, though.
No. 66925 ID: bf54a8

okay now that that is over and we havea good chance of galt construction assistance, what do we want them to build? if we can get a mobile ship-yard, then a fair chunk of a battleship done would be good. get built from the ground up with all our new techs. those thick shields and heat-shell armor would mean any attack below a certain threshold would just singe the paint. aka, it could handle just about any number of small ships, or medium ships with smaller guns. if the capture of this breaker ship provides any new info about how to negate the ship sized weapons it may even upgrade to medium attacks do jack squat against it.
No. 66936 ID: f2c20c

Well as of right now our real problem is getting ships into the field. Even WITHOUT the OBP penalty ships are made incredibly slowly.

We really need Massive Orbital Shipyards. Even being only 2x as fast would be a huge boon. I don't even care if they're less efficient professional/worker-wise for each OBP we get.
No. 66938 ID: bf54a8

yes, said mobile yard so the galts can dump the mass of BP into it and get a lot of it done, then we ship it out to our planet and continue work there.
No. 66942 ID: 370c40

We researched massive orbital factories, and we have one being built at the moment. It comes up in two turns. They are more efficient than large but when we built our large orbital factories we didn't have massive ones researched yet.
No. 66943 ID: f2c20c

Oh shit, I did not realize that. Oh, that's where our spare profs are going! Shit!
No. 67018 ID: 370c40

Disruptive Shells are basically just SC and BP, so if we provide them with the SC we can just have them manufacture those for us WAY faster than we could make them ourselves. Infantry shells are kinda impractical for us to build for ourselves except maybe a few for our commandos, but if we just ship SC to the galts they could outfit basically our whole force with them. Naval shells I'd like to have enough to cover our current fleet, our ships currently under construction, and in addition like, enough for a battleship, maybe? We can also use naval shells to guard buildings from like orbital bombardment or whatever but that would require a LOT of shells. Especially if we don't use massive buildings exclusively.
No. 67028 ID: f2c20c

Something to keep in mind is that in order to ask them to build something, we have to share that tech with them.

I dunno if that's something to be worried about, but it's worth paying attention to at least.
No. 67029 ID: 370c40

We should probably share Disruptive Shell, even if we don't intend to share future shield techs. I mean, they need SOME kind of shields, unless our goal is just to get them into a war with the Breakers and then ditch them, which seems both kinda scummy and also probably not the most practical decision. Breakers still outnumber the Galts, even if we give them superior tech.
No. 67034 ID: 328fa0

While agree with making a battleship, we should definitely specialize it for Naval combat. As is, we are going to face more and more enemy ships and in the short term, orbital bombardment would be a bad idea since we are trying to liberate other planets or protect our own.

This has the basis for the Yamato design and a few others and would likely cost little to create. Not only that, but in terms of sheer range, the Lunar Cannons are our best bet and having a mobile one could save us a lot of grief by softening targets/removing shields so the diplomats and heavy hitters can strike them down.
No. 68446 ID: f922dd

Let's talk implants. The idea of implanting the population with neutral implants once we get integrated tactical implant system and memory mod research is attractive but the problem is the logistics. All data here is going off the info here http://tgchan.org/wiki/The_Icon_Construction_Data and the numbers given in >>/quest/315189

Implants costs SC equal to half of the implants produced. Implanting our entire current population will cost 11,159 SC. 69 turns of our current SC production, and that's not mentioning everything else we'll want to use it for. We probably need more SC production anyway.

As for implant point throughput, a medical distract (our largest medical building) would put out 9 implant points per turn, apparently. That's 90 implants per turn per medical district. Which means if we wanted to finish implanting our entire population within, say, the 69 turns it’d take to produce enough SC at current production, we’d need 4 medical districts. (By the way we need 1 and 2/3 large derricks to keep up to 1 medical district or 0.6 medical district per large derrick.)

But what if we only implanted, say, the training capability of a single university? It'd cost 900 SC and 180 implant points per batch of 1800. The main unknown here is just how long memory mods’d shorten that training time to, and thus how quickly we’d need to pump those implants out.

Speaking of, a gestation tank will pop out 600 nonworkers per 6 months. That'd cost 50 SC per month to implant and require 2 medical districts to keep up with the output.
No. 68449 ID: 370c40

Yeah. We could potentially save some time/resources by researching massive buildings appropriate to getting implants for our guys, but the secondary benefits of massive buildings are pretty much impossible to know until we research them. Not sure whether some buildings have massive versions or not, either, like Gestation Tanks, or the Interplanetary Cannons(cannons take 4 turns to build so they are basically a large?). Still, massive versions of derricks, medical districts, maybe universities, and probably ground factories should probably be on our list of things to pick up at some point.
No. 68450 ID: f922dd

Correction: it's 300 nonworkers per 6 months per gestation tank, not 600. So make that 25 SC per month and 0.55 medical district per gestation tank (decided to be a little more exact there). And, yeah, research into massive derricks and medical buildings would probably be worthwhile.
No. 68620 ID: f922dd

Is the 8x acceleration given here correct? If so, that means that including the 6 months reduction given by neural implants and assuming no other training time reducers (I'd have to hunt back through all the threads to find out), memory mods'd let us train in 5.25 months. Which matches up surprisingly close to the time it takes for a gestation tank batch.

Anyway, implanting and then training a batch of 1800 every 5.25 months would take 172 SC a month (rounding up) and 35 implant points a month (again, rounding up). So, the output of 6.37 large derricks and 3.88 medical distracts (so we'd need 4 districts, and more derricks in general).

While it's premature to discuss such things in the main thread due to the current crisis, I think in the long term we should set up a training intrastructure consisting of 1 University, 4 medical districts, and enough derricks to produce 172 a month (7 assuming no other modifiers like low/high SC density). Then once the entire population has been converted from nonworkers and some professionals trained (though we want some military, too, of course), we can build 6 gestation tanks to keep the output up. Or possibly less depending on how other sources like natural reproduction and recruitment of aliens increases our numbers. We might end up having to build more universities/derricks/medical districts, but that means we're growing.

Anyway, just a look at some numbers and what it'd take to keep implanting and pumping out university batches.
No. 68621 ID: f922dd

Addenda: this is based upon the 4 years training figure that I dug up out of the earlier threads. If some factor's changed that number, the math'd have to be redone.
No. 68648 ID: 370c40

It might be 8x acceleration without taking the 6 month reduction into account, so just 6 months. That wouldn't be a huge difference, though.

So implants should still be on our short list of things to research, but we might want to find out what breaker navy/plasma weapons unlocks, since that's probably some kind of naval offensive or defensive tech and we could use something to give us a little more edge against the breakers in space. We need to build up a force capable of freeing the Individual's homeworld, so something capable of taking on 3 Breaker Capital ships, and 10 Escort ships without taking major losses. If we can do that, we can provide the Individual with military tech it can use to hold off the Breakers while we build up ourselves and the Galts. Also the Individual mentioned something about 'Splinter-like' aliens who were 'supernatural' and we might want to track down a couple of those for capture purposes. There is other stuff related to magic on the tech tree we can't access yet that could be very useful against the supernatural worshippers of Totus, and the Individual implied that they had been part of the conflict that ended in it being conquered.

Also gonna dump a bunch of random RP costs for various things here for easy reference.

Massive buildings(DOES include Interplanetary Cannons)40 RP, although Ed said 30 RP the other day? Basing the 40 on the original mention of massive buildings after researching Large Buildings.

Drone Starships that could be used to scout: 35 RP

Stealth Diplomat Ship(Stealth is risky):90 RP

Mobile Orbital Factories: 50 RP

Dryad and Gester Power Armor(so we could train them as Power Troopers): 8 RP each
No. 80551 ID: ecd0ab

is Ed dead
No. 80554 ID: 2c6ff1

I haven't seen him in quite some time...

I was considering making a java app that would calculate stuff for The Icon but I was delayed for quite some time because I didn't know how to make a GUI. I think I might be able to manage it now but if Ed isn't interested in questing anymore there's no point.
No. 126630 ID: 978ff6

Miss you, Ed! I love your quests. Hope you come back some day. <3
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