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121761 No. 121761 ID: 395c02

Welcome to the Quest Advice thread Mk. 2! Anyone is welcome to offer advice or ask questions about the amazing world of interactive storytelling!

Check the wiki page for additional information and tips: http://questden.org/wiki/Advice_for_Running_a_Quest

The Questden discord may also be of assistance: https://discord.gg/Fh5zMTX

Old thread (Advice may be outdated): https://questden.org/kusaba/questdis/res/15880.html
57 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
No. 128322 ID: 93878c

Question for those a bit more versed in board etiquette than myself.

Is it taboo to ask for someone else to do quest art for my quests? I really can't draw for the life of me, but I somehow feel that asking someone else to do this would be rude, I just don't want the quality of my quests to suffer because I never graduated from stickmen.

And if it is acceptable, how would one go about this? Do I just call to the masses for help in the dis-thread? I really don't know.
No. 128351 ID: 2735ca

Asking for free art is generally considered rude, yeah. For a quest it would be extra rude, because you're asking for a lot of free art, not just one piece. There are cases of people doing art for another person's quest, but generally they pay for it as a commission or get it as a patreon reward. When quest art is done for free, either the artist and quest writer are good friends or the writer has established themselves as good enough already that the artist is a fan of their writing and wants to facilitate more.
No. 128355 ID: 891b91

In terms of having someone else do art -- yeah, I'd say your best bet for having someone draw for your quest is to either pay someone (which will probably get pretty expensive over time, considering the sheer volume of images involved) or find someone who is willing to collaborate with you on it (which, as >>128351 says, has to be done with care so as to not come off as rude, and probably requires being good friends with the artist anyway).

That being said, I strongly encourage you to consider doing the art for your quest yourself. I understand the concern about the art quality harming the quality of the quest overall; I don't want to demean the value of having nice art, but art quality/skill honestly isn't crucial for a quest to be good. It's a nice thing to have, of course, but by no means necessary. Dorf Quest and RubyQuest, for example, both used fairly rudimentary/simple art styles and still enjoyed enormous popularity. Generally speaking, what people want out of a quest, much more than high-quality art, is interesting characters, setting, story, etc. Visual art factors into this somewhat, but not as much as writing does, in my opinion. A boring story with amazing art is still boring, and an interesting story with rudimentary art is still interesting.

This raises the question of why image-based quests tend to enjoy more popularity than text-based quests, but I think that has much more to do with the presence of the art than its quality. Having actual panels showing the environment, what is going on, what the characters are doing, etc., adds a visceral quality that is difficult to reproduce with text alone. For this purpose, stick figures are often as effective as the most polished art. (It might be ironic that I'm advocating this, considering that the general perception of my quests' art seems to be that it's very high-effort, but that's really just a symptom of my own tendency towards perfectionism. I don't think it should ever be considered a standard for other people to follow, because there are a lot of downsides to my way of doing things.)

Additionally, running a quest is, in my opinion, an excellent crash course in improving your art, and pretty much guarantees that you will improve, since it constantly challenges you to draw things you aren't used to drawing. Just look at Dead Dust; maybe other people's opinions on this will differ, but I see a rather stark difference between the quality of art I was putting out at the start of the quest and the quality of panels I'm putting out now. I've seen great examples of this in other artists' quests, too, but I think it would be polite to avoid naming names, since I'd prefer not to hurt anyone's feelings.

There are always shortcuts, of course, all of which are completely legitimate, and often a good idea, to use. One option is to reuse art assets: The Witch Who Lost Her Panties makes great use of paperdoll-style character assets for most of its panels, for example. Related to that is the use of pixel art, which lends itself very well to asset reuse; The Herd does this to great effect. (NOTE: If you go the pixel art route, I highly recommend using an image editor that is specifically designed for it, such as Aseprite.)

So yeah. This post kind of turned into a huge wall of text, but the main point I want to get across is that you have options. So don't be too hasty about counting yourself out as a possible artist for your quest.
No. 128362 ID: 98e742

Thank you, that's helpful.
No. 128391 ID: afdebc

Collaborations between two or more authors / artists providing different parts of a quest happen fairly often. (Usually arranged between existing friends and acquaintances- as established, asking someone out of the blue to art for you is rarely works out too well).

Unfortunately, they tend to have a even higher fatality right than most quests, since you're adding in scheduling and cooperative problems on top of everything else.
No. 128439 ID: 7fd053

I wanted to chime in as an artist who has tried making my own quest, drawing for existing quests, and doing a whole new quest as a collab.

I draw Nice Save and Toastline writes it and I think its the longest running collab? I don't know how to measure that lol.

I prefer collabs to personal projects so I seek them out. I worked with Toast to come up with the whole concept and stuff after I'd known them for a bit and knew we had similar interests and goals. If you want to truly collaborate, I suggest creating something from the start with that in mind, with the artist. It gives you both ownership in the project.

As far as meeting artists that would be interested, I used to hang out in tgchan irc a bit, but I think I got the most useful connections from assorted discord servers we both hung out in. In the end it was more about doing a project with a friend than finding a partner for an existing thing. Which is really just echoing >>128351 a bit.
No. 128547 ID: 91e45d

Thanks to everyone for answering my question, your advice was most certainly helpful.

And so, of course, I'm here seeking more.

I want to write a quest that would contain characters and material that belong to other authors, like, a lot of stuff from other people.

I've asked permission from a few, but there are too many to individually ask all of them for permission.

So would it be acceptable to use characters and material without asking? I don't mean to mock or disrespect in any way, I simply want to include them in a quest of my own. And of course I would credit all original creators.

I've checked, and it would legally fall under fair use. But I really don't want to do anything that would make people angry.

All I could find in the site rules was a thing that talked about 'Writefagotry', which sounded a little different than what I have in mind.
No. 128548 ID: 2007b6

Legality aside, it'd at least be more polite to make a reasonable effort to personally ask everyone involved. Compile a list, compose a simple form letter, ask on the IRC channel for anyone whose contact info you can't find on the wiki. To avoid having a missed contact stall the whole plan, maybe frame it along the lines of "unless you reply by such-and-such date I'll assume you either approve or don't care." http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1600/fc01546.htm
No. 128562 ID: ab1fe9

As a creator, I'd say it depends a lot on what you intend to use them for. If you're planning some silly parody party quest, for example, you can probably go ahead. Beyond that, though, it's questionable.

Some people are very personally invested in certain characters of theirs and wouldn't want anyone else to use them at all. I don't think we have anyone like that around here, but what we might have is people who are like that to a lesser extent, who'd allow things like fanart and short comics and fics, but wouldn't want anyone to use them for anything more extensive or "serious". Some people aren't so personally invested but have put a lot of effort into how a character is perceived, and something that could disturb their characterization would be objectionable. For example, if you took a character who's supposed to be appealing and sympathetic and put them in a story where you had them do something ugly and horrible, that would be a huge problem, because people might go back to the original story and then not be able to look at that character without the association you added to them. And some people might not object specifically to a character being used but just with having their work generally associated with anything that includes certain themes or story elements (usually things along the lines of violence, sex, drugs, horror, specific political ideologies, etc., but you never know).

If you're doing anything that wouldn't be really obviously just a dumb fanficcy "take none of this seriously" quest, I'd suggest trying to personally contact everyone whose characters or material you want to use, and forget using anything you can't get permission for. Beyond being the right thing to do, a lot of authors might be willing to tell you things about how to authentically write their characters that aren't obvious.

Using the "unless you reply" tactic is acceptable when dealing with hostile bureaucracy or things you should have a right to do anyway, but if you're using it on individual people to get permission to use things that are unequivocally theirs, it isn't. Like, a lot of people might not even check their messages that often, or might have changed what account they used, or happen to be away from a place they could check for a while. In any of those cases or anything like them, you'd basically just be acting like kind of a manipulative scumbag.
No. 128565 ID: 270774

definitely seconding >>128562 — if someone doesn’t reply or you can’t get ahold of them you should NOT use their stuff, rather than going “well if you don’t get back to me in time i’m just gonna assume you’re fine with it.” i can’t speak for everyone, but i would be PISSED, and i personally know very few creators who would be okay with someone using any aspect of their work without permission, even for a silly parody work (sometimes ESPECIALLY for parody, honestly.)

every creator is going to feel differently about this, which is why it’s vital to make every effort to contact each of them individually and ask. and if you can’t reach someone, find a way to make it work without using their intellectual property when you have no idea how they feel about it.
No. 128584 ID: c8d230

I'd like to see a response any clearer than that. Okay, I'll use nothing without express permission.

Thanks all.
No. 128599 ID: 2007b6

Yeah, that's a fair assessment.
No. 128821 ID: c0641d

readable pink
green 1
green 2
No. 128822 ID: c0641d

Is there a shorthand color name syntax for the color of greentext, or something similarly yellow-green? I’ll need it for when Gluttony (eventually) rears its head and I don’t want people confusing it for Envy.
No. 128823 ID: c0641d

greentext color
No. 128824 ID: 688dd6

Do your testing in https://tgchan.org/kusaba/moo/
No. 128841 ID: 25fbe6

I have a question. Again. Again after the last one, I mean.
I would like very much to use characters and material from Knight Blades, but to my understanding Reaver has left tgchan entirely. And I wasn't able to find any reference to any place I could contact him about permission. How should I proceed?
No. 128866 ID: b1b4f3

Knight Blades is part of the Dive Quest world. Ask Weaver instead. He should be easier to contact.
No. 128921 ID: c0641d

It's me again; I'm having a dilemma in my current quest (Rise of the House of Osé). The suggestions to my latest update aren't really all that helpful, or at least they feel that way; a lot of general advice but not too much in the way of actually picking options. Is it my fault the suggestions don't feel complete, should I have made their segregation as individual works and the time system more clear? I was considering implementing a multiple choice list outright for the house management part of the quest (while keeping day-to-day interaction freestyle as to form a sort of hybrid system), but I've been apprehensive since one of my close friends had a bad experience trying to run a quest with a multiple choice system. (To be clear, I'm really not blaming the suggestors; it really does feel like I missed something and left things too ambiguous because of it.)
No. 128924 ID: f46e5e

highlighting each thing that will take a portion of the day might have helped. I personally am not exactly sure on how these time units work, also we do need to see what is inside.
Chances are we are going to want the most bang for our time, so a better idea of what exactly we can do and how much time each thing will take will probably help prompt lists of actions to take with Ose's time.
Also, I suggested going inside to further survey what we are working with.
I know I assumed each of the things from the prior update were just going to take half a day with possible clever tricks to optimize once we had more detail, not be highly granulated and seem like there is more than half a day's work in just the outside.
No. 128928 ID: c0641d

From this stated assumption, I can surmise that I haven't been clear enough on presenting the restoration and management of the estate as a... I hesitate to say game mechanic, but a mechanic of sorts. A followup post to clarify and correct definitely seems like the right move, but should I introduce an outright bullet point list of options a la Dragon Romance, etc.? Might be the right move, especially since I have several axes of choices I want people to decide on (read; pick between a vs. b AND x vs. y). Still, what are opinions on that? (Aaaaaaa... This is my first attempt at questing that I don't plan on allowing to go into a coma in the crib, and I'm already running into problems.)
No. 128930 ID: 8eaf98

Might be able to get faster back and forth on the IRC, and with more people than just me. this is the link provided to me not long ago so I'll give it to you too: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.rizon.net/#tgchan as far as I know any IRC client should work
I think the biggest thing is just to be clear how long Ose expects things to take. since Ose seems to need no sleep just giving a number of hours a task is expected to take (assuming 24hour day-night cycle) and a modifier for how magic use will impact that if applicable, at least as long as we are actively budgeting time.
Most quests seem to follow a 'you have X do thing slots and list Y of things that are options' it seems like that might be what you are going for but i can not really tell, reading the post felt confusing as to what each thing Y is. same with how many 'slots' we have, to a lesser degree.
chances are you are going to want some sort of system for this. What I find I want out of such things is consistency or a reason for inconsistency (be it in-universe or out of universe, be that rules not being as we thought, author error, god changing the universe, or what have you)
Disclaimer: I have run one silly quest >>/questarch/926177 and am otherwise just a reader and suggestor.
No. 129505 ID: 395c02

Friendly reminder: Suggestors should avoid using the subject field! Authors sometimes use it for various reasons, and suggestions using that field can be disruptive.
No. 129679 ID: c914a9

I think I'm in a bit of a conflict right now with what I wanna do, and I'd like suggestions.

I want to use dice rolls for luck-based events in my quest, in a way where I administer all the dice rolls. I pretty much pick a suggestion and roll a die for it, and depending on the number, I'll write a different outcome for it - whether it works or it doesn't.

The thing is... I don't know how I'm gonna go about rolling the dice AND writing the pages based off the dice roll.

There's the obvious one - I could wait for the suggestions to come in, then roll the die, and then I'd take my time to make the pages based off the outcome of the die. But the thing is...
If I choose to use a single message to roll the die every single time, I'd be:
1. Bumping the thread for no reason, and also flooding my own thread with dice rolls.
2. Possibly making things awkward for anyone who wants to post a suggestion after I have already rolled the dice?
3. There would be a ridiculous time gap between my die roll and the time I'm taking working on the pages, as I need to know what the outcome of the die roll is before I make the page.

Then there's the other option - I could roll the die for the next action in the previous one. As in, I ask for suggestions and roll the dice for the outcome of whatever suggestion I'll get right away. But the thing is... If I do that, people will already know whether the outcome will be good or bad regardless of what they choose, and that takes away all the fun of it. All of it.

And then there's the last option, which is to make a cliffhanger page just to roll the die every single time I want to roll it, but that would be just kind of boring, honestly.

Neither of these work for me, but I still want to do this. What am I supposed to do? Does anyone have any other ideas of how I could go about this?

I know letting the players roll is a viable choice and all, but that sounds chaotic and I don't really want to go with that, as it kind of defeats the purpose of "OH NO, A SURPRISE DIE ROLL!" - not to mention it'd be bothersome to beg of people to roll the die every time.
No. 129682 ID: e7c7d3

This is something I've tried to figure out myself. Here's some possibilities:
-Going off of your second option, but instead of a single dice roll you offer the suggesters a pool of dice rolls. That way, there's a choice and discussion of whether or not to use the good rolls for the current situation, or to save them for potential future problems and suffer the worse rolls now. Sort of have them make their own luck! Once the current of dice rolls is used up, then you roll up a new pool of rolls.
-Another possibility is that you have an array of possible dice results and have the suggesters roll the dice to see what sort of outcome they need to make suggestion for. So for example, in your update you say that 1-5: player is attacked by the goblin, 6-12:dodge the goblins attack, and 13-20: player attacks the goblin. If the suggester roles a 4 then they need to make a post making a suggestion on what to do about the goblin landing a hit on the player. It's sort of passing on the multiple posting problem from you to the suggesters, but it might be a lot less obnoxious for the non-quest authors to do it. Or it might be more obnoxious, I dunno. I've yet to try it out myself.
No. 129683 ID: 0fae41

You can do your rolling on a less visible board and mention the results in your update post. Or, just use an offsite dice roller. You're the quest master, if you say you rolled something you rolled it.
This is one such thread full of dice. >>/tg/1940
No. 129684 ID: c914a9

Nice! The first one sounds like a fun way to do it - but it still feels like it'd overly complicate it a little too much.
And the second one isn't really viable, that definitely sounds like it'd be kind of obnoxious, and I'd have to beg people to roll anyways.
Thank you so much for the suggestions though!

Thank you so much! I think I'm gonna go with this one, this might be just what I need! I don't think I wanna use THAT dice thread though, it seems way too flooded and would be pretty messy.
And I know I can just roll by myself and say I rolled, but I think I just like the idea of people being able to see the die roll and such, as opposed to just me saying it.
Do you think it'd be viable to make my own thread on /moo/ just for that quest and roll the dice there?
No. 129690 ID: 0fae41

Of course.
No. 129714 ID: 8eaf98

idea roll a bunch of dice every post and roll a secret dice to see which of the results is used (though i suppose that would be complicated if you want to use multiple result dice) that way you can point to the result used and questors don't know exactly which result they will get. (another option screenshot the die roller you use and add it to the post picture)
No. 129777 ID: 75cf31

actually, on this subject, something i’ve been meaning to ask for ages — on quests where the readers are the ones who roll, how do you generally sort through the results? do you decide that the average of what was rolled is what will impact the update? is it typical to, as in >>129714, just pick a single one of the rolls randomly? (i imagine that if it were clear you were choosing based on an average/majority/etc you might scare readers off rolling + suggesting based on whether people have already posted a few good rolls, if that makes sense, out of fear of bringing an already good average down.)
No. 129804 ID: 8eaf98

From what ₗᵢₜₜₗₑ I have seen it seems the roll of the suggestor whose suggestion gets chosen is used.
Though I guess in the case of choosing a hybrid of different suggestors suggestions it gets confusing again, and you could go with average of chosen suggestions or randomly choose one of base suggestion's rolls.
Problem with using suggestor rolls is the whole 'reposting till you get a good roll' issue.
No. 130074 ID: b14c9b

Back when I ran things on /tg/ I'd do separate things for the suggestion and the roll. But then again, that was a really fast-paced time, where I could speed through a whole thread in a single night (and perhaps a roll update in like 15 minutes). I'd often determine what roll I would use by the situation. Though one of my favorite bits was when I had a luck-themed enemy encounter and picked the lowest roll every time.
No. 131120 ID: 502f42

Could someone clarify for me the rules on suggesters posting reaction images on the quest board?
No. 131124 ID: 5fc3a0

What is there to clarify?
"Don't post reaction images in a thread. You may only post images if the author is specifically asking you to do so (paperdoll, etc)."
No. 131130 ID: b28250

Okay, thanks. Dumb question, I know; but I’ve seen reaction images in (admittedly older) quests and I didn’t know if I was just missing something.
No. 131138 ID: 19fdd8

If I want to ask a question that would necro a thread, can I post it on the author's active disthread for another quest?
No. 131188 ID: 7ebbf9

It depends. If it's a lore question about that quest and the author's still clearly around it's probably fine to revive the old thread. If it's "Are you going to continue this quest?", then probably not.
No. 131360 ID: c0e130

So whats the main difference from tgchans quest board to 4chans quest board?
No. 131367 ID: 7ebbf9

Tgchan is almost exclusively drawn quests and original content.
No. 131371 ID: 465a14

tgchan's also notable for not being hot garbage abandoned and shunned by its own host site's moderation.
No. 131398 ID: 864e49
File 157333440282.jpg - (37.20KB , 265x395 , xG5YlsD.jpg )

No. 131400 ID: f7ff14

No. 131453 ID: 2dc938

Tgchan is occupied pretty much exclusively by furries.
No. 131458 ID: f7ff14

No. 131670 ID: ca2950

They wanted to know what the difference was.
No. 131973 ID: f7ff14

There is somewhat different in the platform but a bigger difference is the type of people that visit the sites and the people who create quests on both platforms.
No. 132030 ID: ce39da

Hey, so I'm thinking of reviving Rise of the House of Osé. Would simply necro-ing the dead thread be fine, or would it be more polite to start a new thread with a repost of everything so far?
No. 132042 ID: e7c7d3

For quests, if it's been long enough to be in the graveyard then you need to contact a mod to ungraveyard it. Then yeah, just update it.
No. 132049 ID: c3dca7

Most of the difference comes in the community. Tgchan/Questden has way more in common with /trash/ and /d/ than it does /tg/ and /qst/.

Questden also values OC way more than 4chan ever has.
No. 132094 ID: 2bd15b

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