>>74744
...

Not that I'm disputing the facts here, but um...

Why on Hodra would you make a gigantic cannon /weaker/ than a pistol?! O_o

Anonymous 2013/08/05(Mon)14:49 No. 74749 ID: a01b62
File 137573939783.jpg - (41.12KB , 600x480 , noisycricket.jpg )

>>74748
Why wouldn't you?

>>74747
fatty fatty no parents

>>74747
They also get annoyed when we talk about marriage and/or sex for some reason.

>>74749
The noisy cricket was advanced alien tech far beyond what humanity had as a cannon and was weaker than the bigger cannons they had, it doesn't count.

>fatty fatty no parents
What exactly is wrong with being adopted?

Also, look at her, she's not fat.

>>74753
Where do you get the idea that the noisy cricket was advanced alien tech?

>>74748
>Why on Hodra would you make a gigantic cannon /weaker/ than a pistol?! O_o

It's not gigantic. I meant the infantry robots in that fight, not the cannons on the mech.

>>74754
1) Laser cannon.

2) MIB had lots of alien tech.

>>74755
Ah. I thought we were talking about the mechs' gun. Never mind.

I'ma get a soda.

>>74759
The laser cannon didn't have crazy stupid recoil. Why do you think nobody used the noisy cricket after the first movie? Humanity in the MIB movies could probably make a similar weapon, but they didn't because it's not actually a good weapon!

>>74763
1) Laser cannon referred to the noisy cricket, and why I thought it was alien tech to a world that, last i checked, primarily uses gunpowder weaponry.

2) What does any of that have to do with whether or not it was alien tech?

(Also, in looking up info on it, I found that MIB gives all their new recruits that gun first. There's a betting pool on how far new recruits will fly the first time they use it.)

>>74769
Gorramit, I need to read posts closer before i respond...

If humanity would never build such a weapon, then that only really helps my point that it's alien tech =/

>>74748

Because they're Astrannians. Of course their officer's sidearms will be the most stupidly powerful things this side of stupidly huge Battlecarrier cannons.

Because Astrannian officers are Astrannian, that's why.

>>74771
You said it was advanced alien tech that humanity couldn't produce. Also why are you calling it a cannon when it's obviously a PISTOL? There were other weapons in the MIB series of movies that could easily be called laser cannons. Lastly, the MIB are shown to be far more advanced than outside society. They are part of humanity, in case you didn't realize that.

>>74741
I think this part is mainly because LW designed the Stranners to be able to serve as antagonists AND protagonists from the get-go...Plus, well, the race in general is kinda 'evil' in it's setup, which to me, seems to ironically work in their favor-as much as /Quest!/ can't stomach their goals or ideals, they're also the best for the 'Stranners due to cutting down on the infighting, which strikes me as being one of the Stranner's weaknesses.
On the flipside, I'd say the Schellor do the most poorly about it, since Quest messes with their unity and might not get the whole 'symbolism' with their psychic powers.
Tozols I think are sorta 50/50 on how they come out.

>>74774
No, I said it was beyond what we had as a cannon. MIB was supposed to take place on modern earth (of the time, anyway) and if i recall correctly, we see one instance of a gun outside of MIB and it's pretty evidently NOT a laser cannon gun.

> Lastly, the MIB are shown to be far more advanced than outside society. They are part of humanity, in case you didn't realize that.

1) Please do not assume I am a moron incapable of figuring out that the primarily human organization based on earth and dedicated to keeping it neutral in galactic politics is a part of humanity. It's rude.

2) They also deal with aliens every single day, many of which are trying to blow up the planet, and confiscate a lot of their stuff. We see this with the orb that J sends richocheting like crazy and the other orb with life on it that K floods in MIB2.

It's a laser gun, I don't see the problem with saying it's alien tech when it's supposed to be set on 21st century earth.

>Also why are you calling it a cannon when it's obviously a PISTOL?

Take your pick:
-Poor word choice. It's a problem with me a lot.
-Because it blew up a truck like a cannon.
-'Laser cannon' is more fun to say than 'laser pistol' but gets the same idea across: it's a gun that shoots lasers.

But this is a pointless tangent, can we talk about something else?

>>74777
The Scellor are having a hard time in large part because their turn was the only one of the three we've finished so far that actually made the situation /worse/ for their side.

>>74773
Thank you.

>>74782
Wow, I'm not even gonna bother with you anymore. Your cognitive dissonance is impressive indeed.

>>74785
...Eh, fine, that's your prerogative. This is completely off topic anyway.

I'm pretty sure we've always had problems with Scellor mindscape things. /quest/ just isn't good at them, I think in a large part because they involve a lot of careful thinking about things that most suggesters (myself included) don't tend to put out for most quests. For instance, the whole diplomat thing? I never would have guessed that. Her aversion to war was never even hinted at as far as I could tell; we were just supposed to guess because it was her job to keep the peace or something. Also: symbolism is fucking stupid. Sure, a sword can symbolize justice, but you know what it also symbolizes?

http://www.scootermydaisyheads.com/fine_art/symbol_dictionary/sword.html

War. Aggression. Both things that a diplomat should be strongly capable of handling. Phalluses (something that a Scellor should definitely be capable of handling). Intellect. Power. A million things other than justice, which doesn't even appear on there.

Imagine if the sword had symbolized war instead (like it, you know, usually does!). Imagine the diplomat stealing the war symbol from the enemy commander and smashing it to bits. What a huge victory that would be! How justified we would have been in reaching for it! And it damn well could have.

That's why, and I hate to dump on Jukashi like this, we will probably never be successful with the mindscape stuff. Both of the times we've tried it we've gotten sorta yelled at for... not really "getting" it. It's one of those things where you have to either try and guess what the author had in mind, which is never fun (who liked English class?), or just present possible interpretations and the author picks the one he likes best. I'm not saying that they couldn't be done well, but when they largely depend on A) knowing the character's personality (of two characters we were basically just introduced to), and B) bloody symbolism, we're destined to fail at them.

Side note, because I hate symbolism so much: Everybody read this poem and try and study it for the symbolism.

http://www.online-literature.com/henry_longfellow/924/

Did you guess it was actually about the human condition and how nature ceaselessly erodes away at man's creations? Did you guess that the traveler is dead when he leaves the town? Did you guess that the waves represent the ups and downs of life? Did you do it on your first try? Even if you did, you still might be wrong! Or more accurately, nobody is wrong! I hate symbolism agrahghrhfhgh

>>74801
It was hinted at when she used the cape as a whip ("Rrgh. Right. Right! Those are good reasons! To injure and kill people. Permanently. Right???") but not before the mental battle, no. And now that I look again, we didn't really have a chance to take that into account anyway, so it doesn't matter it was hinted.

But to be fair, it was a necklace, not an actual sword, and her hostility was already confirmed as that dagger Piyerra cut her with.

...Having said that, your general point is correct. Mindscape battles are gonna suck.

... Question: If clothing and possessions represent one's thoughts and psyche in the mindscape and the scellor are supposed to be ultra-powerful psychics why are they completely naked?

>>74806
...that's actually a really good point. Why did that stupid crappy Astranian psychic get to carry her dumb necklace in with her but the psychic-oriented Scellor caste aided by, like, her whole platoon or whatever, didn't spawn with an RPG? Is it just defender's advantage?

>>74806
>... Question: If clothing and possessions represent one's thoughts and psyche in the mindscape and the scellor are supposed to be ultra-powerful psychics why are they completely naked?

Probably because we were in Ekia's mind, not Piyerra. Piyerra was just projecting.

Being on the offensive rather then defensive, range, innate to developed skill yadda yadda...There's enough reasons why it DIDN'T work, fluff wise, I think.
I think what REALLY made it hurt is how the Schellor didn't really get a 'victory'. Like, the Tozols wiped that scouting mech force, and got prisoners.
The Stranners took out the Ayaar scouts, and may have possibly taken the upper hand to require pretty much outright cooperation between the Tozol and Schellor.
But the Schellor? Lost their Psychic battle, which was THEIR specialty, and got blown up and messed up badly by the Tozol's actions. Those, arguably, are /Quest's fault (we didn't remember the mines/difficulties of Psychic battle.) But THIS is what I think made it hurt: instead of feeling like awesome space psychics, we got our tails handed to us for incompetence at something we should have been better at.
Now aside from that, they lost the inital space battle, and lost 2 of the three ayaar, the third of which is now captured by Tozols.
I CAN see the Scellor coming back from this...But it's increasingly looking like if they do, it's because either one of them actually suceeded in their crazy heroics, or the Undermind actually intervened. In short, they need to get lucky to win now, it seems like.
On the flipside, it could very well have been that we simply just had the bad fortune of missing their 'important turns' the Space battle, and the Ayaar encounter, as well as whatever else was going on, but at the same time...Getting that horribly unlucky is much like losing your favorite Quest Character because of a bum dice roll.
Who knows. I'll wager that if we take control of the Schellor in the midst of a firefight or something we'll have a much easier time of it!

>>74806

I don't think the Scellor have much along the line of attachment to physical objects. The only thing they carry with them at all times is the Undermind, so that is what they bring.

>>74810

That and the psychic bat was totally hax.

>>74812
It does make sense that the Scellor wouldn't have an attachment to anything but themselves and the Undermind.

Those items weren't representative of attachments to anything, though. They were metaphors for one's psyche. Ekia had a cloak for her indifference, a dagger for her hostility, boobs for her maternal instincts/self-image, a necklace for her sense of justice, etc.

>>74810
If I may offer a more optimistic viewpoint (for once): It might not be as bad for the scellor as it looks.

The scellor have 3 times the personnel the Astranians have (not counting robots), and most of those soldiers can use psychic powers to some degree. From a meta perspective, we had a hard time in the psychic battle partly because Ekia is one of the few psychics their forces have (conservation of ninjutsu and all), and because our connection to her was as weak as a rusty space elevator's connection to the moon.

The scellor's initial base has been assaulted heavily, but their communications are unhackable, and the enemy can't pinpoint them without exposing their commander's mind to the risk of invasion. They can do asymmetrical warfare pretty easily and help reduce the disadvantage of their lack of discipline.

On top of that, there's a chance the Scellor will gain a (temporary) ally as good as any they could hope for under these circumstances.

>>The tozols estimate a company of infantry, all told; mostly robots.
80-250 units
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_%28military_unit%29

>>/quest/532515
okay, fair enough, but at 2 miles an hour, it'll take long enough to not be worth the wait. And that's assuming they leave the jungle entirely.

I find it weird in the OP picture that Jukashi's representation looks like Comfybat and LW's looks like Radde.

>>75521
Not canon. The Astranian walker's shields would block the Scellor's psychic powers.
:goonsay:

>>75524

The astranian forgot that their walker's shields had blown out earlier and charged into battle unprepared.

>>75531
If Astranian shields are that great, I question how they can possibly have a "war" against the Solars, whose main armaments appear to be AK-47s and frag grenades. That wouldn't be a war, it would about seven minutes long. With advanced warning, knowledge of all Astranian tactics, and several years to set up traps.

>>75602

I'm pretty sure that you misquoted there, since what you said has nothing at all to do with what you referred to.

Either way: Astranian Shields are specifically designed to block psychic activity. Explicitly so.

>>75605
I was aiming at 03. Sorry.

>>75605
I thought they were designed to block mental attacks? Psychokinesis is a whole different ballgame.

Astranian shields are designed to stop all direct psychic attacks,
though theoretically enough psychic power could overwhelm it

also reposting a chart thingy I made a while back in my main discussion thread, added psychic attacks to it
--------------------
there are 2 ways to beat Astranian shields, either you pierce through them, or you drain them completely

damage: Piercing power, Draining power
psychic attacks: PP: weak, DP: none
Energy weapons: PP: very weak, DP: strong
solid shot weapons: PP: medium, DP: weak
explosive: PP: weak, DP: very strong
large object/melee impact: PP: strong, DP: strong

Astranians also tend to wear body armour as well it tends to be effective against weapons as follows

Astranian Body armour
psychic attacks: no protection
Eneregy weapons: minimal protection
Solid Shot weapons: maximum protection
explosive: minimal protection
Large object/ melee impact: moderate protection

----------------------

also regarding the fanart picture (which is awesome btw)
many astranian scouts(vehicles or otherwise) on long patrol have no choice but to keep their shields down to conserve energy, leaving them vulnerable to surprise attacks until they have time to charge their shields, which for a large vehicle like the walker could take several minutes!

feel free to ask any questions

Sorry about the week-plus of not updating. IRL gave me a high-priority concern.

However, as of today, I have no good excuse.

How much do the BQ tozols know about the Astranian shields so far? They don't know anything about their psi-blocking abilities yet, do they?

>>75621
I'd be more happy about that if I hadn't kept putting off making my suggestion; I kept overthinking it and got nothing down. There still a day or two before the update?

>>75621
No need to apologize - RL comes first. Hope whatever it was worked out okay.

>>75622
... Er... Not to be rude, but why would that matter? The Tozols aren't psionic... And if they allied with any of the scellor (the only psionics they /could/ ally with at the moment) they'd already know.

>>75642
True, the tozols don't need anything like Astranian shields to protect against direct psi attacks (though maybe they'd be useful against indirect ones.) Them knowing about the psi-block would be for planning so their actions wouldn't be immediately recognizable as non-Scellor due to being within a shield bubble.

>>75651
Okay, good point, but even if they knew that, do they or the Astranians know that Scellor become inert inside the shields? Judging by how the astranians reacted ( >>/quest/384035 ) I'd say they don't know.

And that's assuming they stop all psychic powers used /inside/ the shields, too, which I doubt if they have a commander-ritualist using psychic projection to find and fire on the Scellor.

>>75734
What? Ekia could do that from behind the shields? Uh... >>/questarch/385712 Huh. It does appear she can use psychic projection while the battlecarrier's shields are up. That makes me wonder if it only blocks psionics coming from outside or if psychic projection is a non-directional power and doesn't pass through the shields.

I do admit that the Astranians very likely haven't made the connection between the shield bubble's psionic blocking and the Ayaar going catatonic. They'll need more than that single point of data before making any conclusions.

>>75751
Ehhhhh... Well, it's possible she got coordinates directly during the mental battle and then put THOSE into the machine, but it didn't look like it when she put the coordinates in and honestly doesn't seem that likely.

>That makes me wonder if it only blocks psionics coming from outside or if psychic projection is a non-directional power and doesn't pass through the shields.
Another possibility is because she's Astranian. Their shields /are/ racist, after all.

So, sounds like Psychonium can be metabolized into things that the Tozol body needs.

Hmm, will this make things worse.. or better?

Reya? How do you feel about licking the Scellor prisoner's wounds clean? As an apology for stealing her underwear of course. ;p

Astranian shields are indeed directional
and have no effect on things exiting them, psionic or otherwise

>>76121
Hmmmm... Interesting.

I wonder...

Could the Scellor fool Ekia's psychic projection by making it seem as if they're in a different place than they actually are, since she's projecting out from the shield? Or would that require going through the shield? It won't really matter at this point since the Astranians already know exactly where to fire but maybe it could be useful in the future, assuming the Scellor make it out of this?

>>/quest/571878
...huh. I thought this thread was defunct.

>>/quest/571848

This, basically. Knowledge like 'how a reactor works' isn't something we can get during an ambush. Maybe if we'd thought of this back at base with Rook (...or had him with us, come to think of it... shit) we'd have time to plan, but we don't.

Plant the bombs and get your Tozol on

>>81083
Even a little knowledge might make all difference in our charge placement - upgrade the damage done from 'shutdown for repairs' to 'ionized'. Plus, tasty intel asset for later study. Might not help us on this outing, but might make a real difference later.

>>81095
First of all, we're not pulling out a few wires here, we're placing a c4 charge onto the thing. You don't need specialized knowledge of how the reactor works to blow it up.

Second, as mentioned before we do not have time to waste. Seconds are precious here. If there's no tangible, immediate benefit to keeping them alive I see no reason to do it.

Third, we have an intelligence asset already. This is an ambush, not a prisoner raid. And unlike our previous ambush, this one takes place dead center amongst hostile forces. Tozols are the strongest soldiers on the map, but they aren't invincible, the last thing we want is to get caught in a pocket again. (That didn't work out well for Penji)

>>81096
Is it an intelligence asset with technical knowledge? Ops is very useful, no doubt, but their technical knowledge is likely fairly narrow.

Depending on how widely the 'stranners cross train their technical corps, he might might well give us access to some exploitable data about some of the workings of their tech-base. Even knowledge of their power systems might be exploitable in the long term.

>>81098
Let me just... just work out if I've got this straight.

Your plan is to attempt to capture a member of an extremely proud and racist species in the middle of its own base and force its cooperation in highly technical matters in the span of a few seconds, again, in the middle of its own base. Then, after the slight benefit that such an act would confer upon us (if at all) you want to take it with us. We didn't bring anything we could use to transport this creature out of the walker, so I assume we'll have to have one of the Tozols carry them out to Kaselir's tank, which puts one of them out of commission for the fighting.

You think that this plus the technical details of something we are planning to utterly destroy is worth the risk of the Tozols being caught in the middle of the enemy base without support, not only revealing that we exist, but also probably causing the loss of at least one Tozol, possibly more.

And all of this is ignoring just how many precious seconds we would have to spend on interrogating this creature, the extremely high probability that it could die on our way back, the possibility that it could just lie to us...

I'm sorry, but from where I'm standing the risk outweighs the benefit to a truly astounding degree when we can just put a bomb on the big purply thing and call it a day. Call me crazy, but I don't think the Tozols need much technical knowledge of this thing to know that the big glowy swirly thing in the reactor core is their target.

>>81112
I'm thinking field interrogation is purely optional now, beyond maybe how to open the maintenance hatches or such like - we'd look right stupid if the charges expended themselves uselessly against a security force-field or suchlike - more possible than I'd like, I wouldn't risk a gun (the marine's gear) with that kind of firepower near such a possibly volatile system without some kind of safeguard in place - the 'Stranners are dumb, but they're not suicidal; I don't want a Tozol version of the Scellor fiasco. Or maybe we just taze him and haul him home, if it really introduces that much complexity to field interrogate.

>You think that this plus the technical details of something we are planning to utterly destroy is worth the risk

We're looking at a potential goldmine of information here - not just about the walker, but about 'Stranner war machines and technology in general. Data about 'Stranner equipment could give us a vital edge in the fight.

>>81115
>if it really introduces that much complexity to field interrogate.
Yes. It does. They know they're under attack, so every second counts. Trying to get info on this reactor now is, at this point, pointless since we can just blow it up.

Assuming we still want one for long-term purposes, there's still the issues of transport and non-cooperation. When we get outside, Kaselir can take our prisoner in her tank, sure, but since we didn't come planning to snatch up prisoners this time, that would leave one Tozol splitting their attention between keeping the prisoner a prisoner and fighting, or just plain out of the fight entirely.

And then, if we judge by our current prisoners, we have a 50/50 shot of getting an Astranian who'll cooperate. Which also means we have a 50/50 chance they won't.

While admittedly we'd get more tech details if they do cooperate, it's probable they wouldn't know much about the airship, since they're working the ground.

I guess Vaejra could hook up to the systems here and learn something as quickly as possible, if we really need to get information on this trip? He has a cybernetic uplink that can do that, right?

I may not dig Halftangible's ideas on tactical dispersal into the room, but he's right on about trying to capture a squishy.

Item #1: Cooperation.

If the Squishy (I love how we've moved from Astrannians to Stranners to 'Squishies'.) is uncooperative then they're dead-weight until we get them home. IF we get them home, we're not exactly rigged for extra POWs here.

Then there's the issue of the Squishies being so.. 'squishy'. Odds are given their egotistical-racist culture and psychology using 'soft' interrogation won't be sufficient, and given how they're so delicate they'd likely die before breaking and spilling useful intel if we used 'enhanced' interrogation.


Item #2: Relevant Intel.

We're Tozols, we weren't born to do this. We weren't Made to do this. We were Crafted to do this by the most advanced artisans the galaxy will ever know. We know how to place charges for maximum-boom, and if we don't see a way to achieve maximum boom just by looking at the reactor once we control that room odds are we're not gonna be able to get relevant info from a Squishy who is either going to be burning time shouting fuzzy-nazi propaganda at us or pissing themselves to death.

Item #3: Time.

We don't have it.

We do NOT have it.

Every second we spend branching out and multiplying our mission objectives on the fly is more time the Squishies have to get a bead on us and start frying Tozols. The Squishies have Handguns that Make You ASPLODE! Fuggin' ASPLODE!


Item #4: Mission Creep.

It's bad, mmm'kay?

Item #5: Tozol Bay.

Let's just blow the damned thing up, Alright?

>>81122

Fine. But we need to make time for dedicated fact-finding missions against both sides soon, otherwise we risk getting blindsided.

>>81124
Although it might be easier to make a 'stranner carrier than you'd think. Look for a emergency supply box - there could be rescue balls for hostile environments or something like that.

>>81122
>I may not dig Halftangible's ideas on tactical dispersal into the room, but he's right on about trying to capture a squishy.
Fair enough. I'm an amateur writer/programmer, not a tactician.

>>81124
Agreed, we need intelligence. But this isn't the time.

>>81125
I hope you meant 'take' :P

>>81127
A rescue sphere might need some changes to be useful for our purpose - tying rope to the handles and suchlike to it so can be easily slung on our back, or checking for an emergency beacon and killing it if one is found so it doesn't give us away. All of those likely could be accomplished relatively easily in the field though.

>>81129
1) What exactly in that post were you responding to? >.>

2) Kill the emergency beacon? Why would we do that? The forces here are going to know we're attacking the walker as soon as the reactor blows anyway, the carrier is out of range, and even if it tries to come back and help, that takes pressure off of the Scellor and prolongs their fight with the Astranians.

Anonymous 2014/04/23(Wed)10:58 No. 81132 ID: 6c6fbc
File 139827589729.jpg - (9.68KB , 245x269 , ballper1.jpg )

>>81131
I'm referring to your response about the rescue ball - you'd have to modify one slightly to use one of theirs as a prisoner carrier, if we decided to improvise in such a fashion.

A rescue ball is likely to be designed to attract attention by nature -'rescue' after all. Such a device might well have a transponder to help rescuers find it in a smokey area - we'd want to turn such off lest it pinpoint us. We won't need to make it so they wouldn't be able to open it from the inside though - such a feature would be standard so that a delirious or otherwise irrational patient doesn't open the thing in vacuum or toxic environments.

Image related, it's the kind of gadget I'm describing.

>>81132
...

But I didn't say anything about a rescue ball >.>

>>81134
>iamconfuse.tiff
Then why'd you link to
>>81125
in
>>81127

>>81136
... oh. that. I was making fun of your post. Specifically, the part where you suggest we "make" a carrier. :P I assumed you meant 'take', as in 'destroy', and that 'make' was a typo. It seemed funny.

>>81144
So what do you think of the idea of improvising a prisoner carrier then? There's a good chance they'll have a gadget like that I described close to hand - it's a pretty versatile piece of equipment for any kind of hostile enviroment emergency - vacuum, coolant leak, the works.

>>81146
*shrug* Sorry, I still think there's too much risk and not enough reward. Time is at a premium right now, and we only suspect that such a thing could be improvised.

The Tozols only have so long before all hell falls upon them, and when that happens... well in all likelihood someone's going to die, and a Tozol is far more valuable than a prisoner.

><@TestPattern> There's some indications of how the shields work in BQ. Just gotta look for them.

Alright, fine, I'll do the obsessive fan thing while waiting for stuff to cook.

>>/questarch/368614 - shaped plasma landmine works
>>/questarch/368615 - fusion cannons "ablating the shield and achieving penetrating hits"; laser and Anak's sniper rifle ineffective
>>/questarch/368617 - "the front shield is much stronger than the back"
>>/questarch/368618 - "Its shield strength is unknown, but doesn't seem to protect the feet."

That's all mech shields, mind. The marine shield stuff shows up vs Scellor, and how it works vs. psychic powers isn't very relevant right now. Even reflected Stranner lasers don't seem to get through: >>/questarch/381536

So, it appears that 'Stranner Shields' ability to repel mass doesn't scale-up as well as it's ability to resist energy, good to know.

Test Pattern 2014/06/12(Thu)13:03 No. 82377 ID: ba8629
File 140260341998.jpg - (234.02KB , 500x3000 , tozolconcepts.jpg )

Have some very old concept art for the team.

Test Pattern 2014/06/12(Thu)13:05 No. 82378 ID: ba8629
File 140260350357.jpg - (133.78KB , 1532x843 , rinis_blocky.jpg )

And some newer concept art.

I spent forever trying to figure out how to draw a stylish charging tozol for the door breach scene... and then didn't use that.

>>82377
>>82378
Always nice to see behind the scenes =)

What's the dropship's cargo capacity? Are there any mounting points which could be used to carry more stuff on the outside, and if so, how much without redlining the engines just to take off or completely ruining the aerodynamics?

Here is my propozol:
Step one, get a big rock, or several slightly smaller rocks, or hunks of scrap metal or whatnot. Optionally, add some actual explosives.
Step two, mount aforementioned heavy stuff on the dropship in such a way that it can be released quickly.
Step three, wait until a Scellor ship gets back in the air.
Step four, dive-bomb the Astranian carrier, ideally on a vector such that the projectile seems to originate from the Scellor vessel.
Repeat until shields are down.

Game Over Test Pattern 2014/10/11(Sat)22:49 No. 85998 ID: ba8629
File 141309298247.jpg - (474.26KB , 1152x1152 , 1229977012606.jpg )

Due to creative differences, we've decided it's not really possible to continue this quest in a way we all find fun.

Put briefly, we've got different ways of deciding how things should happen. I saw the quest from the outset as an interesting tactical situation, and approached it from the Gamist/Simulationist side of things, while LonelyWorld prefers a more Narrativist viewpoint. Over time, it became increasingly difficult to reconcile those approaches in a mutually satisfactory manner.

I apologize to everyone following the quest.

>>85998
=(

... eh. Guess it's better to know for sure... and collaborative storytelling is really difficult if the players/writers start butting heads... Disappointing, but understandable.

Thanks for the two threads that y'all did manage to get out before this happened.

Some final thoughts that have been brewing in my head for a while:

I really enjoyed this quest, particularly regarding how faction inter and intra-play worked. The Tozols in particular - since there were so few of them - were all connected to each other in some significant way that meant the team's dynamic would shift heavily if one of them died. (EX: Baj was the child of two of the Tozols, and the lover of a third. Had he died, they would lose their xenopsychological "expert", and three of their soldiers would be emotionally compromised. Look at each of the Tozols and you notice they ALL connect like that to the others in some way) Piyerra and Radde were both integral to the other's proper functioning due to their psychic link. Had Eskia died, Tactica Command would have been unable to properly lead since the Astranians don't take orders from robots (and as Astranian Turn 1 demonstrated, they would push back against its orders every chance they got). However, had Tactica Command been destroyed, the Astranians would be led by an arrogant sloth who didn't give 2 shits about anything going on on the planet's surface.

Each of the factions had believable strengths and weaknesses that, in theory, would allow each to show their full range of power without overwhelming the other factions.

The Scellor probably got beat down the hardest, but I think it's partly because their abilities were the most limited, and partly because of how the three races were originally designed.

The Scellor were originally an RPG-style protagonist: ignoring the fanservice aspects, their appeal came in large part from building up their character's powers over time and discovering more of the world around them. The Tozols were similarly designed to grow and progress in power and skill, but they were also meant to be put into this exact scenario: outnumbered, no chance of reinforcements, low on supplies, and outgunned. On the other hand, the Astranians are designed to operate in a grimdark science fantasy where everything is covered in blood and drinking deep of death, where your best chance for survival is to grind your enemy down until it's nothing but a greasy smear on your boot. The Tozols and Astranians were made to fry bigger fish than the Scellor.

What really hurt the Scellor, however, was the fact that both the Tozols and the Astranians had hard counters to psionics, their most useful ability.

What this ultimately means is that while the Astranians and Tozols were in places where they could fully stretch their muscles from the get-go, the Scellor were not. This probably would've changed as the game went on and each side began to lose more resources, but as-is, the Scellor were pretty screwed.

The three authors had their own quest-telling style that clashed a bit in places (especially the Ayaar prisoner - she seemed more like Mitzi than Piyerra, Radde, Maolla or even the Ayaar leader to me) but overall it made for a varied, interesting read. Jukashi's sections were funny, light-hearted and really showed off his characters. Radde's speech about saving the entire universe from entropy was great, and probably one of the best parts of the quest. LW's sections were dark, bloody and gritty, and it left the astranians feeling very... well, dark and bloody :p TP's sections were gloomy and gray, appropriate given the situations the Tozols found themselves in. They also, however, showed off his characters' ranges quite nicely and despite the gloomy atmosphere I never felt like they were completely hopeless.

As many have noted previously in the thread, Scellor turn 1 was probably the biggest misstep: it was the first (and only) time where the faction's aggressive move felt like an overall loss for the faction. Jukashi, I've noticed, likes to experiment with his quest mechanics and visual cues. Ultimately, though, this bit the Scellor in the ass, since the questgivers were working in a system they barely understood (i don't think anyone called the necklace as being a symbol of justice)

The winner... eh, nobody really got far enough ahead to declare one side or another the 'winner'. If pressed, I'd say the Tozols, as they had the fewest losses.

As for the overall narrative... I put the Astranians as the "villains" as we played. They felt in many places like the Star Destroyer in the opening of A New Hope: they were an overwhelming force pounding hard on their thoroughly underequipped foes. They were trying to sieze the spire 'just because' and their forces were in large part either arrogant, lazy or cowardly. It also makes sense that they'd be the least sympathetic since the Tozols were a tightly-knit unit that was defending their de facto home out of duty and loyalty, and the Scellor were out to save the whole dang universe from dieing. (that speech was pretty much perfect, btw) I recall LW saying somewhere that the Astranians were meant to be both an- and pro- tagonists in equal measure, and it really shows here.

I put the Scellor as the "heroes" since their goal here was to save the entire universe. It was an understandable goal, it was delivered to near-perfection by a character who had up until that point seemed like the silly, playful one, and it was an appropriately far-reaching goal for a race of all-but-immortals.

The Tozols were my favorite of the three factions. Their force numbered 8, which allowed for their strong character dynamics, aesthetic personas and personalities to shine through.

Speaking of, characters were REALLY strong here. Jukashi's were probably the best imo, but nobody was phoning it in on this one. LW integrated his characters perfectly into the story such that they acted as unintrusive exposition while still showing off their personalities (take a look at the squad analysis back in thread 1, you'll see what i mean). Jukashi's were probably the most fun, Radde in particular owned every scene he was in and Piyerra was a great straight man to his zany...ness. As I've said before, TP's Tozols were all well-designed characters with a tightly knit group dynamic. All 8 of them felt unique and likeable in their own ways and I think you deserve kudos for that. An ensemble cast is not easy to pull off.

In conclusion, you guys are all awesome and I wish you three all the best in whatever you do next.

RIP. You will be missed.

so she's dead huh? well it was a good run while it lasted

This was a quest I really wished I could have gotten into more but with the sporadic updates I never could really get into the grove of things so ended up more just reading and waiting to see what happened next instead of actually participating. But since it's over mind if I ask Test a question that has been bothering me for awhile? Why do Tozols have tanks? I mean if you look at the tozol wiki page I see no reason why they'd need a tank, they could probably run faster then the tank could move and move over a wider range of terrain, the tozol solder is a hell of a lot less likely to be spotted then a tank, and from what I have seen of the tozol's weaponry half of there armament could probably be classified as small artillery. The only things I could see use for Tozol armor is as a supple/troop carrier or for very specific special task that needs a gun that even a tozol couldn't carry and air support isn't an option. if this question has already been asked and answered then could you link me to the answer?

Test Pattern 2014/10/12(Sun)15:47 No. 86018 ID: ba8629
File 141315406849.png - (239.74KB , 800x600 , tankdestroyer.png )

>>86014
>Why do Tozols have tanks? I mean if you look at the tozol wiki page I see no reason why they'd need a tank, they could probably run faster then the tank could move and move over a wider range of terrain, the tozol solder is a hell of a lot less likely to be spotted then a tank, and from what I have seen of the tozol's weaponry half of there armament could probably be classified as small artillery. The only things I could see use for Tozol armor is as a supple/troop carrier or for very specific special task that needs a gun that even a tozol couldn't carry and air support isn't an option.

That last one.

>>86008

>The Tozols were my favorite of the three factions. Their force numbered 8, which allowed for their strong character dynamics, aesthetic personas and personalities to shine through.

I actually thought that was the weakest part of the quest. The tozols were set so far behind from the start that they couldn't lose any soldiers without effectively dropping out of the quest, each individual represented such a large portion of tozzle resources that there wasn't really any tension regarding whether or not they would suffer for their actions. The astranians and the scellor could suffer consequences for their actions and still be 'in the game,' which meant that you couldn't be sure if their plans would actually work.

as a counterpoint, the tozzles set up a big plan, and then had to have one of them suddenly adjust the plan on the fly when things went wrong without communicating the plan to any others, but then they just executed the plan as they had initially intended to do as though nothing had happened without any consequence. It was an incident where the players settled on a course of action that was then disrupted, but instead of having to improvise or scramble or suffer a consequence it just sort of worked anyway. It sucks the tension, and thus the interest in what's going on, out of the whole side of the quest. And the problem is that there isn't much of a way to avoid it when the group is structured in such a fashion.

The astranians suffered numerous setbacks on other players' turns, and the scellor suffered a significant setback even on their own player turn. The tozzles were put in a position where they couldn't suffer setbacks so they just sort of didn't.

>>86020
I suspect that is not why they didn't suffer setbacks.

Even just one tozol could win the game. So could an Astranian or Scellor to be honest.

It could have gone down as mexican standoff with three superpowered, super equipped factions with only one survivor on each side.

Comfy-Bat in an astranian metal gear, Radde in a gundam, and Baj on foot with a knife.
Mexican standoff. BIG mexican standoff.

 

>>86024
I would actually like to made a change to that last statement, even if it basically means Baj would win the fight.
>Comfy-Bat in an astranian metal gear, Radde in a gundam, and Baj on foot with a katana.

>>86020
Seriously? Have you read Tozol Quest?

>>86020
>Losing one tozol meant they were basically out of the game
Where were you getting that idea? Each Tozol had their own specialty, sure, but there were redundancies everywhere. Look at Vaejra's first post here, it's like the third post in the discussion thread with an actual image. Each of the Tozols has many jobs.

EX: The commanding officer and Reya were both information warfare experts, Ota was there to take command if Vaejra died, etc etc. Heck, it's implied in ITQ that some of the Tozols wouldn't care if some of the others died (Rinis and someone else?)

Each side was stuck with the resources they had, that much was clear from the get-go, but the Tozols were especially isolated. Mechcanically, each individual Tozol was a huge resource you could ill afford to lose, like the Astranian Warship. Narratively, each Tozol was a precious character we didn't want to lose like Radde or Tactica Command. It was a well-designed scenario, I feel.

>No setbacks
Well yeah, that's kind of the Tozol faction's whole thing. Every setback they had would be an extreme one, since their resources are so limited. Compare each faction's biggest guns: the Scellor have their psychic powers (if Scellor had been the first turn in thread 2, i was going to suggest that every scellor in the army link into a battlemind, and have that battlemind attack the ship), numerous grav tanks and their ships. The Astranians had a friggen warship, numerous battle walkers and the command walker.

The Tozols had... bombs (the other factions had those too) a tank (just ONE tank, compared to the enemies' several each) and a dropship (that wasn't going to help much against any of the enemy ships).

As I said before, no one was getting reinforcements. So the Tozols were always going to be stuck working on a lower bar, but the Tozols themselves were so overpowered that it was basically going to be an even fight.

>It just sort of worked anyway

Well, we had yet to see that, for one. The quest stopped right before we got to see how well this infiltration played out. This was the first point where we could have lost a Tozol, and the Scellor turn was the only one so far that did not work out favorably for that side.

For another, the plan was to destroy and/or disable the walker. The bomb would have most definitely done the latter (and possibly the former - can someone yell 'timber'?) but instead we got next to nothing from the bomb itself.

>>86024
I was thinking more Sout with one shot and no shields, Vaejra with one leg and a knife, and Piyerra with nothing but psychic power, a thermal layer and Radde's crazy grin.

>>86014
>Why do Tozols have tanks?
Because you can never have enough dakka.

>>86043

Keep in mind that I hate tozzles interacting with other quest races outside their own setting because they're too relatively powerful to be interesting in the first place. I know all about tozzles.

The problem here isn't the individual power level difference. The problem is that the structure of the quest meant that I knew going into it that the tozzles wouldn't suffer setbacks because they were the race put in a position where they just plain couldn't afford it. There was no tension at all.

Even when they had the big scene with OH MAN THIS MARINE IS HARDCORE IT TAKES SO MUCH WORK TO KILL IT, there was no tension. It was a matter of 'how long will it take' not 'will it work' or 'will they lose any resources in the process?' And then the ultimate resolution was just hitting it with a thing. It doesn't matter how much you try to play up threats when you've already sucked all fear of setbacks out of the situation. It's already over.

>>86044

>Well, we had yet to see that, for one. The quest stopped right before we got to see how well this infiltration played out.

I have a sneaking suspicion that that's where the 'creative differences' that ended the quest came from -- The problem of being unwilling/unable to actually give the tozzles any kind of setback in order to achieve their goal; or alternatively suffering the setback of having their plan to take out the walker fail.

Which is a shame since having to fall back because they had no way to actually stop the walker without unacceptable sacrifices, and as such losing ground and having to relocate and all that would have caused them an actual setback and added an element of tension which was otherwise completely lacking in their side of the story.

>and the Scellor turn was the only one so far that did not work out favorably for that side.

Which is why I divide the three sides into distinct tiers.

Tier 1: Scellor - Suffer setbacks during player turns as a result of player actions during their turn and other player's turns. High-Tension.
Tier 2: Astranians - Suffer setbacks during other player's turns as a result of player actions during other player's turns. Low-Tension.
Tier 3: Tozzles - Suffer no setbacks. No-Tension.

>>86046
...you know, it's possible that the tozols didn't suffer any setbacks because we made the right decisions and were cautious.

>>86018
I thought a tozol tank destroyer was just called a tozol.

>>86046
>Keep in mind that I hate tozzles interacting with other quest races outside their own setting because they're too relatively powerful to be interesting in the first place.
I really hate this argument. A character being 'powerful' doesn't mean that the other characters are completely helpless. Especially not when the other creatures are in the same basic genre and power tier (Tozols aren't going to be blowing up planets with their bare hands any time soon)

>I know all about tozzles.
Then why do you keep mispelling it? :P

>Which is why I divide the three sides into distinct tiers.
I actually found the Tozol situations to be the most tense, followed by the Scellor and then the Astranians. So I dunno what you're talkin' about.

>I have a sneaking suspicion that that's where the 'creative differences' that ended the quest came from -- The problem of being unwilling/unable to actually give the tozzles any kind of setback in order to achieve their goal; or alternatively suffering the setback of having their plan to take out the walker fail.
Dude, the plan to take out the walker DID fail, and we were TOLD what caused the problems: one player wanted to do the quest as a simulation, another as a story. As someone who's done collaborative storytelling before, trust me, this is incredibly common.

Dunno why Jukashi couldn't play tiebreaker, nor why this wasn't worked out beforehand, but I assume that the former was rejected for whatever reason and the latter just didn't occur to them as something to check. It happens.

>Which is a shame since having to fall back because they had no way to actually stop the walker without unacceptable sacrifices, and as such losing ground and having to relocate and all that would have caused them an actual setback and added an element of tension which was otherwise completely lacking in their side of the story.

You're drawing a lot of conclusions on how this played out behind the scenes with very little information and declaring them as fact >.> I also find it odd that you presume that 'falling back' would somehow be a loss for them when leaving would've just been an anticlimax. They'd set up a smoke bomb and antipersonnel mine field and had ample ability to get on the walker, they had every reason to move forward.

I found the infiltration of the walker to be far more tense than Sout or Piyerra's fight scenes (main character shields, ho!). The only real problem i had there was that it took a few months to get inside the walker.

>Setbacks
You keep using this word, i don't think it means what you think it does.

>Even when they had the big scene with OH MAN THIS MARINE IS HARDCORE IT TAKES SO MUCH WORK TO KILL IT, there was no tension. It was a matter of 'how long will it take' not 'will it work' or 'will they lose any resources in the process?'
What quest were YOU reading?

>And then the ultimate resolution was just hitting it with a thing. It doesn't matter how much you try to play up threats when you've already sucked all fear of setbacks out of the situation. It's already over.
You want one of (i think 100?) marines to be a legitimate danger to 5 or 6 Tozols? That's like a single Niaar assassinating Ekia with a slingshot - it ain't gonna happen. Setting up that the Tozol's weapons were completely ineffectual against the Astranian's shock troopers (that the walker was most likely filled with) isn't creating tension for you?

(also, it was solved by hitting the marine with a grenade inside a thing. Just wanted to make that clear)

>>86048

lol

>>86066

>Then why do you keep mispelling it? :P

Because I've spelled it that way for years and I have no intention of ever stopping.

>Dude, the plan to take out the walker DID fail

The purpose of the explosives was to immobilize the walked long enough to get inside and disable it.

They detonated the explosives early in the wrong place and it still stopped long enough for the tozzles to all take a quick jaunt through the forces around it, infiltrate it without any real resistance, and then when it looked like they might not be able to safely disable it the quest suddenly ended due to 'creative differences.'

>ou're drawing a lot of conclusions on how this played out behind the scenes with very little information and declaring them as fact >.>

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the statement you responded to. Failing to accomplish an objective is a meaningful setback when resources were put into the attempt to achieve it, especially if you're playing the 'guerrilla force with no resupply options' angle.

>I found the infiltration of the walker to be far more tense than Sout or Piyerra's fight scenes

The infiltration consisted of walking to the walker without resistance, opening a door without resistance, walking inside without resistance, and defeating an enemy with minimal resistance.

Where is the tension coming from there?

>You want one of (i think 100?) marines to be a legitimate danger to 5 or 6 Tozols?

I don't believe for a second that any number of marines would be a threat to any number of tozzles, because they walked through a plan that should have been a scramble to salvage something without resistance.

>Setting up that the Tozol's weapons were completely ineffectual against the Astranian's shock troopers (that the walker was most likely filled with) isn't creating tension for you?

When the solution to the problem of their weapons not working is 'hit it with a thing' and the enemy can't even meaningfully fight back?

no, that doesn't create tension at all. Not when the enemy is ultimately trivially dispatched, no matter how many updates are used to point of the minutiae of said dispatching.

>also, it was solved by hitting the marine with a grenade inside a thing. Just wanted to make that clear

The marine was pulverized to death before the grenade even exploded (See: minutiae). What quest were you even reading?

>>86067
*sigh* the quest is done, this is the last i'll comment.

>Where is the tension coming from there?
Irreplacable resources are walking into the middle of the enemy encampment, surrounding themselves with foes that the Quest just proved the Tozols can't hurt with standard weaponry.

Thaen's trick was born of desperation and isn't going to work the whole way out since there aren't consoles everywhere in this walker.

They have a very strong chance of being caught in the blast of what amounts to a small nuke.

They're in the middle of a mine field.

Tozols have been shown to be disabled by standard bullets. The Astranian's guns are magitech laser cannons. Not 'standard'.

Frankly you're not giving the Astranians enough credit and the Tozols too much >.>

>That has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the statement you responded to.
So I put it in the wrong place, sue me. You're avoiding the issue. :P

>I don't believe for a second that any number of marines would be a threat to any number of tozzles
You don't believe that furry space marines with magic lasers have a chance against a group of Tozols after surrounding them and cutting them off from any and all reinforcements, which they have likely done given the noise made and the fact that they are inside the enemy's command walker.

You're asking too much.

>because they walked through a plan that should have been a scramble to salvage something without resistance.

I think you're talking about the walker bomb, but I don't see why that should have been a scramble >.> It's not like the bombs suddenly deactivated.

If you mean the reactor, we don't know what happens after that. You assume that the problem is TP wanted his Tozols to come out without a scratch, but frankly I don't see it.

>The marine was pulverized to death before the grenade even exploded
Frankly I'm not convince he would've died without the 'nade. Astranians get crushed in their suits and live. See: Huro. I'm not even sure it required him to breath.

>>86067
>lol
Okay smartass, why don't you just ask the author, instead of putting words in his mouth and exaggerating everything that is possible to exaggerate?

>>86069

>They have a very strong chance of being caught in the blast of what amounts to a small nuke.

Or they could realize that that's a bad idea and have to abort the mission, at which point they have expended resources and accomplished little to nothing and experienced a setback

>They're in the middle of a mine field.

Which they set up.

Which they are apparently actively aware of the position of every mine they set up since they sprinted through it even when moving to a location that they had not originally planned to approach.

>Tozols have been shown to be disabled by standard bullets. The Astranian's guns are magitech laser cannons. Not 'standard'.

And the astranians are apparently incapable of even firing in a direction adequately describable as toward a tozzle. Going by the fight scene we saw.

>Frankly you're not giving the Astranians enough credit and the Tozols too much >.>

I'm not talking about crediting the species.

I'm talking about trust in the scenario. The tozzles walking into the command walker destroyed any idea that they would be in danger. The fight scene inside annihilated it.

>So I put it in the wrong place, sue me. You're avoiding the issue. :P

Because there is no issue. There is nothing that I have declared as a fact that is not observably a part of the quest.

>which they have likely done given the noise made and the fact that they are inside the enemy's command walker.

You mean the soldiers that are outside the walker, in a minefield (that the tozzles can navigate perfectly), and were unable to see the tozzles moving past them to get to the walkers in the first place?

>I think you're talking about the walker bomb, but I don't see why that should have been a scramble >.> It's not like the bombs suddenly deactivated.

Because one tozzle set off the bomb early without being able to communicate the change in plans to the other tozzles, despite no contingency being set up in advance.

Because they had to move to a position they had not planned to move to, through an army who was not in the positions they were planned to be in.

>If you mean the reactor, we don't know what happens after that.

Nothing happens after that, because 'creative differences.'

>You assume that the problem is TP wanted his Tozols to come out without a scratch, but frankly I don't see it.

No, I assume it's because he wasn't sure how to maintain their involvement in the quest if they suffered a significant setback (either losing tozzles in the blast or aborting the mission and expending resources on nothing).

>Frankly I'm not convince he would've died without the 'nade.

'By the time the grenade detonates, the Astranian's already had its last breath crushed out.'

ded

>>86070

What have I exaggerated?

And fine, hey test, what were the specific creative differences?

>>86072
Oh my god what is wrong with you? When I say "ask the author" when you're arguing about why the tozols seemed to have an easy time of it, why would you not ask the author why the tozols seemed to be having an easy time of it? Why would you instead choose to ask about a private disagreement that he is obviously not giving details on?

Why would you ask what you were exaggerating when I said you were exaggerating everything?

>>86073

>Why would you ask what you were exaggerating when I said you were exaggerating everything?

Because nothing that I have stated happened in the quest is an exaggeration, that's why.

Why do I always say 'this is the last i'll comment', I always get one or two more in...

>>86071
>Because there is no issue. There is nothing that I have declared as a fact that is not observably a part of the quest.

You have both stated and treated several of your opinions as fact ('this wasn't tense' is an opinion, not an 'observable fact') and treated a hypothesis of why the quest ended as fact once you'd finished proposing it. When someone suggested a legitimate possibility you laughed in their face, which I assume means you found the idea absurd.

>>86074
>Because nothing that I have stated happened in the quest is an exaggeration, that's why.
Yes, you have exaggerated.

>>86075

>You have both stated and treated several of your opinions as fact ('this wasn't tense' is an opinion, not an 'observable fact')

Where on earth did I say that was a fact. Stop putting words in my mouth.

>and treated a hypothesis of why the quest ended as fact once you'd finished proposing it.

The only thing I treated as fact about the quest ending was that it was over creative differences.

My source for that is right here: >>85998

If you want to point out how my one assertion of fact re: the end of the quest was not a fact, I'm all ears.

>When someone suggested a legitimate possibility you laughed in their face, which I assume means you found the idea absurd.

It certainly doesn't hurt that the idea was absurd.

>Yes, you have exaggerated.

where?

>>86076
>The only thing I treated as fact about the quest ending was that it was over creative differences.
>It certainly doesn't hurt that the idea was absurd.

Do I need to point out the contradiction here?

>>86077

Yes, you will.

Because there is no contradiction in that statement.

!!!!!
!!!!*
!!!!

Anonymous ## Admin ## 2014/10/14(Tue)07:00 No. 86081 ID: 61da19
File 141329525671.png - (3.34KB , 114x115 , Capture.png )

>>86077
>>86078
....

(I better stay focused on the discussion. The judge will give me another penalty if I keep lashing out...)

>>86071
>No, I assume it's because he wasn't sure how to maintain their involvement in the quest if they suffered a significant setback (either losing tozzles in the blast or aborting the mission and expending resources on nothing).
Just for the record, the tozols actually had zero chance of successfully bringing down the shield.

>>86081
The admins here make me laugh =3

>>86092
... huh.

That just makes me curious what the plan was gonna be here, then. Presumably the Astranian ground forces were going to be halted by the minefield (at least for a bit) and do whatever they could to kill the Tozols on their way out...

Probably irrational, but as the last poster before TOD I can't help but worry that I contributed to the bad end somehow.

>>86961
... 'TOD' = Game Over?

>>86992
From context my best guess is it's "Time Of Death."