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File 167898848776.png - (276.33KB , 633x1292 , markup_clip_5571803234603730273.png )
139280 No. 139280 ID: 02d159

A thread for discussion related to O/I/R, because you guys seem to need it ahead of schedule.

Wiki: https://questden.org/wiki/O/I/R
Expand all images
No. 139281 ID: 99f29a

gentle tuch alium
No. 139282 ID: 99f29a
File 167898913776.png - (209.09KB , 633x862 , S9MepX3.png )

No. 139285 ID: 2eb3cc

>because you guys seem to need it ahead of schedule
Always ready for an argument about fluffy people, that's us

No. 139286 ID: 5d9787

I guess the ahead of schedule discussion is my fault. In my defense the comment I responded to did say to "do better" and I took that as a challenge.
No. 139287 ID: aa23a8
File 167899784686.png - (229.72KB , 633x862 , pap.png )

No. 139288 ID: aa23a8

SIDE NOTE since some people might have been confused:

I'm only doing the art! This quest is being run by Typo!
No. 139289 ID: 02d159

I definitely want to encourage discussion! Just, when I saw people already having conversations in spoiler text, and also that I had close to fifty suggestions, I figured I should probably hurry up and toss up a thread.
No. 139290 ID: 5d9787

I have a question that will be irrelevant with the next update: What is the scale we are dealing with?
The comments seem to assume the neumono is about five times the size of Kuvusha, but considering the room horizon lines he must be far away and therefor much larger. The problem is that such room doesn't fit with the garage doors that seem to be three times Kuvusha size in high and because of that the proportional length wouldn't allow for one of those rooms to be right next to each other the way the garage doors seem to be.
Maybe I'm overthinking things like the bed high commentary. To me it would make more sense for the neumono to be between three to five times Kuvusha size the way most comments seem to assume.
No. 139292 ID: aa23a8

I did my math wrong and had to get the model fixed for the latest update, so the art before that is misleading, particularly the size of the doors. The neumono is approximately five times Kuvusha's height.
No. 139293 ID: 5d9787

Interesting. So her entire living space must be proportionally smaller than a closet in relation to the corridor and cells.
No. 139294 ID: 6729e7


It's bigger on the inside
No. 139295 ID: 708905

Interesting now we just need to know if they're big or small by neumono standards to get an idea of overall scale.
No. 139299 ID: 90c451

Based purely on coloring alone they're greenish which means forest neumono so probably on the smaller side.
No. 139300 ID: 708905

Good point but you also get all kinds of weird hybrids with them so ?
No. 139304 ID: c95892

So! Discussion!! What exactly are the high priority supplies?

I think she needs a lab coat with LOTS OF POCKETS.
No. 139305 ID: 5d9787

Physiological necessities of the inhabitants. Does everyone have enough food and water? Access to functional toilets? Proper ventilation? Blankets? Those sound like the basics whoever set up those cells must have covered, but such things could easily be overlooked or underestimated because of the unusual scale. A snazzy lab coat and trash novels can wait, but if we don't check those someone could get sick.
No. 139307 ID: 90c451

A chair, or rollable stool maybe. If we get one stool we can roll anywhere we won't need anymore chairs, that way we don't have to bring a chair or set one up in every chamber.
Also, an emergency radio. While I doubt they would want anything confidential on radio waves maybe we can set something up so we can send off a quick signal if we're in danger.
Lastly, after the necessities have been gotten, I recommend a chess board, as it's a game that can be played through the glass and will hopefully act as a stress reliever for both Kuvusha and the subjects.
No. 139309 ID: 708905

Given just how bug the size difference is a projector and laser pointer may come in handy
No. 139310 ID: f3c38f

Side note: my current hypothesis is that the "translation" process is basically taking a creature from one universe and bringing it into another - but translating it in the process to be (somewhat) compatible. Like, moving the CONCEPT of the person more than their exact structure. So, they end up with a language and emotions you can understand (and maybe a biology compatible with local food?). Though clearly there are significant limits on what's translated vs transcribed, since it apparently doesn't just e.g. make the closest-approximation Tridenik. It is unclear yet whether the process is triggered intentionally for secret government motives, or just a Thing that Happens and this group is trying to deal with it. The translation process may (in lore) be involved in our own perception of events, given the language and emoting stuff, vs that written language remains untranslated. This is highly speculative, of course, but is my working theory.
No. 139311 ID: 2aa5f0

So I'm noticing the neumono's room is rather bare, so does that mean
1) we need to request thing for them things to make them more comfortable
2) would we even have anything big enough for them?

I mean I think we could maybe find a comically large beanbag chair for them that would be big enough for them but I don't know if we could find anything more complicated for them. I mean if nothing else giving the guy a few books to help kill boredom I feel is the minimum effort we should put in to help the guy.
No. 139312 ID: f69af6
File 167911215784.png - (503.80KB , 950x720 , typotime.png )

Very clever, Typo. You first make a character that has some crazy mind link to the suggesters.

And then you integrate it into the story as the reason why she is picked for the black site and why she can understand the aliens.
No. 139313 ID: fec07f

Oh man Kuvu is going to freak out if this is the case. Can you imagine learning you got hired onto a blacksite because otherworldly beings already have access to your brain?
No. 139317 ID: 5d9787

I was thinking about the comment:
>I’ll be honest, I’m getting sick of seeing these guys! I was hoping to see someone actually “Alien” in the literal sense of the word.
While I understand and agree that the concept of aliens usually invoke far stranger creatures than the furries with superpowers most of the spacefaring questden bestiary seem to consist of, I far prefer those to the majority of things from SCP. I'm relieved we are getting creatures that are kind of reasonable instead of the high power bullshit that misunderstand and abuse complicated concepts like pataphysics and cognitive hazards, or even worst, are based entirely on paradoxal or nonsensical definitions (like the patter screamers, fuck those in particular). The SCP resemblance was filling me with dread.
No. 139318 ID: f69af6

No, no, no. That person did not mean SCP creepypasta-style aliens, but rather creatures from more realistic, speculative works, like Arthur Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Larry Nivel, and others from the golden age of science fiction, where the aliens look and behave in a very inhuman manner, but are still mortal beings like any other, just having spawned in a completely different enviroment.

I myself like the neumonos, but I completely understand when people think they are hogging attention away from other already existing or potential stories. The only good idea I hav about is to make a mental list of the quests and tropes one likes and to come up with fun, easy to like ways to promote them to a wider audience.
No. 139322 ID: 445ad5

As a fan of Cirr's work, I'm calling it now. The multi-eared low-temperature guy with multi-tails (003) is one of Cirr's Criai. Given the combative state, probably of the Bisushpi-kin faction, so good luck with that one.
No. 139327 ID: e139aa

that can't be right, there's no fans of cirr's work left, they all died out in the great content drought of '22
No. 139330 ID: aa60d9

Bitch I’m still here.

Besides that’s how cirr quest work. You get a month or two of consistent updates. Then 6 to 8 months of radio silence, followed by him starting a new quest or occasionally going back to an old one.
No. 139331 ID: dee951

I just want to say... please don't punish us for your quest being popular. Like doing the 'the person is overwhelmed with the number of comments every single time there are lots of in depth comments'. Like once, narratively is fine, but doing so many times simply due to the quest player's enthudiasm is really not fair.. some quest authors do that for some reason and I've never figured out why.
No. 139333 ID: d8bd15

It’s because it is overwhelming, every time. We aren’t owed a response to every point of every suggestion.
No. 139334 ID: cce6c4

Don't worry. I mean, obviously the quest isn't going to get anywhere if Kuvusha has a breakdown every update.
No. 139335 ID: cce6c4

(That said, I think Kuvusha is entitled to being overwhelmed by her situation from time to time. Just, it's more a function of that than "oh no so many suggestions". I certainly don't want to discourage people from suggesting in my quest...)
No. 139337 ID: 2aa5f0

so how long until Kuvusha sees an Amtsvane? Seeing how big they are and how most of them tend to be nervous wrecks themselves I'm kind of curious would would drop their spaghetti more.
No. 139339 ID: dee951

awwww I had high hopes for the psychic thing!!
No. 139344 ID: cce6c4

Sazgvao is not particularly representative of amtsvane demeanor.
No. 139361 ID: aa23a8

https://questden.org/wiki/O/I/R As if by magic, a wiki article exists!

I wholeheartedly encourage someone who isn't me to improve it.
No. 139374 ID: b4b039

Oh nooo, they've evolved sporulation! ;P

Also. The cube-square law seems like it might, in fact, be kindof important here. Like, a human can hold a gerbil carefully, even casually, without much fear of hurting it. The same isn't as true of a human being held by something proportionally larger - for instance, we die of fall damage a lot easier, we have a much harder time supporting something our own weight (like a giant finger or hand), and something like a pat becomes a heavy blow. The answer to the cube-square question may determine whether we will ever be able to safely, casually interact with these entities, or if we'll always need e.g. safety protocols. (Unless we can get something like e.g. bioarmor. :P )
No. 139375 ID: b4b039

Also, Typo and Slinko, you seem to have found an exceptionally successful combination of skills and story points; good job. :D
No. 139376 ID: b4b039


1. I do agree that by and large most sci-fi aliens are basically humans in weird bodies, occasionally with small tweaks, and that it might be nice to see some aliens that are weird on the inside, too - but that's a problem really not specific to this quest, haha.
2. This quest is actually in a good position to still explore such possibilities.
3. Given Kuvusha is more-or-less human-on-the-inside, it makes sense to start her off with an alien that is, too, lest she REALLY flip her lid.

Also, you may be interested in Three Worlds Collide. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/HawFh7RvDM4RyoJ2d/three-worlds-collide-0-8
I don't know if it's an EXCELLENT example of alien-on-the-inside aliens; I think there are a few things I would have changed, but I think it's a decent attempt, at least.
No. 139377 ID: aa23a8

Not going to address this directly in the thread, but — what kind of author do you think I am, exactly??
No. 139380 ID: e4595e


Are the various musings about mass, density, strange forms of matter, the square cube law, etc. a relevant direction to take the quest or should we stop worrying about them?
No. 139382 ID: 5d9787

I'm not sure what that comment was trying to say, but maybe the worry was more about losing the vote to the hug people for lack of arguments.
No. 139383 ID: e4595e


But this isn't a democracy!
No. 139385 ID: 273c18

I have no idea why anyone would expect opening the door to cause some kind of gravity well to appear from nowhere.
No. 139387 ID: dee951


It's more, I think, they expect the laws of physics to be dramatically different on the other side of the wall, due to the simple fact that the Neumono exists, and is at such a grand scale, AND there aren't the other secondary clues of the Tridenik's being tiny that one would expect. Such an abrupt transition of the laws of physics isn't often survivable.
No. 139395 ID: b4b039

One POSSIBLE explanation is the usual one: the author hasn't really thought about it, and/or wasn't aware of the square/cube law. The resolution then just depends on whether they want their interactions to more resemble normal Tridenik and giant people-crushing Neumono, or tiny robust Tridenik and normal manageably-strong Neumono. Though, given the size ratio was written down in advance, this suggests more thought than ignorance or carelessness would generally engender, and given there's two people involved in the creation of the quest, it's more likely at least on of them's familiar with the square-cube law.
No. 139396 ID: aa23a8

I am aware of the square-cube law. :V
No. 139399 ID: 3d3771


Are you, uh, aware of how massively this matters and how big and insane and extreme an issue this is? And what weird second and third order effects the fact that an entity seems to be ignoring it implies? That sort of awareness is... not especially common in modern sci fi or fantasy popular culture. That's kinda why we've been focusing on it.
No. 139400 ID: 4f6abd

What I'm going to say for the moment is that, while I welcome the speculation, maybe don't get too carried away with it. For example, the previous suggestion that Kuvusha should avoid opening the glass to avoid being instantly killed by gravitational effects is ... not a particularly relevant thing to be worrying about.
No. 139401 ID: 3d3771


How about exploded by the fact that matter in that area has different inherent forces and is more soread out and the radii of atoms is different and the like?
No. 139402 ID: 4f6abd

From a storytelling perspective it's not meaningfully different why, specifically, Kuvusha is being killed in this scenario. It's not the right thing to be worrying about.
No. 139403 ID: 3d3771


From a storytelling perspective, the shown level of incompetence and lack of forthrightness and trustworthiness and lack of observed thoroughness of her employers means she should absolutely be terrified of various ways their fuckups could get her killed horribly.
No. 139404 ID: a093c3

Shh shh sometimes big.

Please refer to head pats at top of thread.

Leave highly analytical physics out of this, there's much more relevant dangers to worry about~
No. 139406 ID: 99f29a

Have you never seen a dinosaur. The square-cube law isn't a magic instadeath forcefield that converts you into a supernova if you get taller than 7 feet. It just means things get heavier faster than intuitively expected. The scale presented does not go beyond the point where biology has ways to deal with being heavier. Considering whether Orro might have health issues with joints or hearts from being larger is a reasonable point to investigate but suggesting that being 5 times taller than the protagonist means that you're made of antimatter is neither productive nor plausible.
No. 139407 ID: 5d9787

If the circumstances are realistic she have to be a small creature.
Changes to the side of atoms would affect their bounds breaking Orro into goo.
If the space between molecules change the state of matter would change as well, turning Orro into gas.
If he is composed of different matter the air, water and food he receive would have to be made of the same matter. There wouldn't be a reason to make a door to his cell because he would never be able to leave without perishing.

The explanation could be something absurd, it's fiction after all, but in this case we have to follow the rules established in the narrative. Things work the way they are show to work.

The major realistic concern should be what Kome brought up: microorganisms. It's, however, a gigantic problem in every fiction involving alien species interacting. Either we take this in consideration and there must always existe a barrier isolating the species, or we ignore this possibility to allow for more naturally interactions.
Since neumonos are already established as able to interact with aliens for many years it would be odd to get dissesses into consideration at this point.
No. 139408 ID: 3eaba8


Dinosaurs were not shaped or proportioned like humans, and weren't hundreds of feet tall. That's why there's questions in the quest to determine if the protagonist is lilliputian in scale, and some ways to figure that out.

The upright bipedal form is REALLY bad at certain scales; see the issues with giant Mecha robots being unreasonable.
No. 139409 ID: e139aa

god damn, big dumb arguments over the physics of a setting, it's like the good parts of early 2010s questden I missed it so much
No. 139410 ID: 99f29a

are you going to write an essay about how neumono empathy is unrealistic next
No. 139411 ID: a093c3

:siphongetin: I will start biting people. And I will enjoy it.

Don't make gulketi have to intervene or your particles will explode oogy boogy!!
No. 139412 ID: 3eaba8


No? Suspension of disbelief is easier because the rules for that in setting are clear. But if matter isn't matter, geometry isn't geometry, and mass isn't mass, and that's not described in the setting, than you can't really assume anything about the reality of the setting at all. Psychic powers are more believable than something ignoring the square cube law.
No. 139413 ID: e139aa

> Psychic powers are more believable than something ignoring the square cube law.

dear mods, please change the /meep/ tagline to this, TIA
No. 139414 ID: 99f29a

the point i was leading into is that the psychic powers get handwaved as part of the genre/setting conventions because that's how speculative fiction do, the point is speculating on how things would be if something weird happened and often the weird thing is not physically plausible. in this case sometimes aliens are large and the focus is more on the interpersonal stuff than the nonexistent possibility that tall people might explode due to tallness.
No. 139415 ID: a093c3


What description are you even after? You want an essay on comparative physics to a universe she doesn't know exists? Is "sometimes big" too complicated of a thesis?
No. 139417 ID: a093c3

Ye okay it's been the same for too long.
No. 139418 ID: a8f755

Oh my god, things can be big and not require hard sci-fi levels of justification, this is fiction. Thus if there was some spooky reality-destroying anomaly needed to justify big neumono, there'd be signs, likewise for microbiological threats. We know Kuvusha isn't the first one to interact with test subjects anyway.
No. 139420 ID: a9af05

Why is everyone arguing over a Neumono being "unrealistic" when it's big? The Neumono itself doesn't exist in real life, so being "too big" is not a valid argument.

I mean, we've also got Amtsvane as a species, but I don't see anyone calling them unrealistically big when they show up in a quest! And they're even bigger than Neumono!

Can we please stop arguing about how big the Neumono is and just accept it as one of those "sometimes big" situations?
No. 139421 ID: 3eaba8

I mean, if Tridenik's all had the superpowers that they should have if they were 5" tall, that'd be fine.

But that has implications! Ones which should be shown, perhaps.

Stuff like being able to, well jump or climb or fall safely like a chipmunk, squirrel, or mouse, in relation to their body length. Basically, they should be able to do some pretty major force exertion because their muscles are powerful for their mass. Also, they should be familiar with the idea of much MUCH bigger creatures and plant life, and also the theoretical maximum size for an upright biped made of the same stuff with the same body proportions should be expected to be at roughly the size of the largest humans, so things like that wouldn't be too surprising, even if there was no life like that on their planet. Also, their heartrates, breathing rates, and the like should be higher, their lifespan should be lower, their metabolism higher, the rate at which they shake to fling water off of their fur should be different from, say, a large dog, and allllll the things that show up when you're roughly the size and shape of a mouse.
No. 139422 ID: 2a97e8

The fun things to discuss would be whether neumonos’ distributed biology makes them better suited to being big. Giant was pretty dang tall already!
No. 139423 ID: fb1eae

So, we haven't gotten Kuvusha to directly comment on whether or not her species is small, but there's some circumstantial evidence that they're not, and we haven't really seen any of the things you mention. What might that imply?
No. 139424 ID: 3eaba8


Then, they're normal sized. Or normal massed but tiny somehow. And that means the Neumono is like 100' tall and then things just break down horribly!
No. 139425 ID: fb1eae

Do they, actually?
No. 139426 ID: 3eaba8


YES THEY ABSOLUTELY DO, my point earlier that actual mental psychic powers are significantly more believable than biped human shaped 100' tall giants made of meat and walking around doing human things in a world with physics otherwise like ours!
No. 139427 ID: a8f755

My dude, this is not hard sci-fi, things can be that big without being broken over the wheel of physics and biomechanics. If you can't suspend your disbelief for that I'm not sure what else to say.
No. 139428 ID: fb2164

Did you forget that someone 50ft tall will kinda think they're normal-sized, and YOU the 5ft man is weird and tiny? And vice versa for a 5 inch man vs a 5ft man :V

Like, of COURSE she's going to think she's normal-sized, especially if most other things on her planet are similar...
No. 139429 ID: 08d6dc

Stop trying to bring real world logic into this work of fiction. You're sucking the fun out of it by constantly trying to tell the author that they can't have giant aliens in their own quest.

If you don't like how the author wants to do things in the quest, then the simplest solution is for you to stop looking at the quest since you don't like it that much.
No. 139430 ID: 3eaba8


Hence the explicit asking about, you know, specific feats using body length as a metric to get her sense of 'normal'. How many times their body length can a person longjump from a standstill? How many times up in a high jump? How many times can they fall before they expect to break a bone, or die? Etc. etc.
No. 139431 ID: 3eaba8


To add to this, the predicted answers for a 6" person and a 6' person should be vaaaaastly different, is the point I'm making.
No. 139432 ID: e139aa

No. 139433 ID: e770db

Yeah, this argument is kinda getting annoying to keep hearing
No. 139434 ID: 3eaba8

Oh here's a good one: how big is an average raindrop in comparison to the protagonist's head?
No. 139435 ID: 99f29a

You went into a story about giant aliens to complain about giant aliens being unrealistic, ignored the translation process providing a possible handwave plus people pointing out genre conventions, and now you're keeping the argument going by yourself sans any outside input. Can you get over yourself and stop insisting on realism for this specific aspect or at least go someplace the stuff you're interested in isn't specifically opposed to the direction the author and the rest of the suggestions are trying to go?
No. 139436 ID: feffd0
File 168013189130.png - (104.36KB , 872x585 , this_is_a_wendys.png )

No. 139437 ID: 3eaba8

Look. It's not that I'm complaining or won't accept an explanation. I would love an explanation! I would love the author or our protagonist to actively respond to these things as their brought up in their respective threads. I'd be happy with a hand wave of, 'there's something weird going on, and all the money in the facility is getting funneled to this project which is rewriting everything known about math, biology, physics, engineering, basically everything, and that's why this area is underfunded!' or something, ANYTHING. I do actually want to know if the protagonist is actually small. I want to know how the water behaves. I want to know if she would be more like a mouse interacting with a human (she's the mouse here), or a human that gets a car or a house flung at them (she's the human here) if one of these beings touches her. I feel these things are interesting, fascinating questions that I would love to be addressed, and think there's probably a lot of super interesting potential story to be had in the addressing of them. I'm not unhappy! I'm curious and hopeful!
No. 139438 ID: 6e7268

Man I just wanna jerk off to cartoon animals.
No. 139439 ID: 2aa5f0

is this the same guy that tried and ruin down up north by basically bitching about everything that Roaway did and saying it was bad and than when people said shut up and let those who enjoy the quest enjoy it tried to hide it behind a flimsy "it's just criticism" excuse when it was at best trolling, and worst just an excuse to bash a quest that a lot of people liked in the hopes that they could scare off the QM and kill it?
No. 139440 ID: aa23a8

See this is why all my quests have magic.
No. 139441 ID: a093c3

> I would love the author or our protagonist to actively respond to these things as their brought up in their respective threads.

No. 139442 ID: 3eaba8


Uhm. No?
No. 139443 ID: 99f29a

how much of your life expressed as a percentage have you spent following people to continue a conversation
No. 139444 ID: aa23a8

Okay, no, but really, like, while I appreciate the enthusiasm and the desire to want to know things, this is kinda taking over my discussion thread. The last fifty or so posts have been either arguing about how the physics work in the quest or arguing about the argument about how physics work in the quest. I'm just going to say that some questions will be answered in due time, and some might not get answered at all, and in any case the quest is intended to be a bit more character-focused so maybe don't sweat the physics details quite so much.

To attempt to somewhat forcibly redirect the conversation, does anyone care to speculate on what the other subjects might be? Quite a few people correctly guessed that Orro would be a neumono ahead of time, and in theory there's enough information in the notes that I think someone could deduce the identities of subjects 2-4.

Alternately you can just discuss the current situation or something that's fine too. Just, please, let up on the physics stuff a little...
No. 139445 ID: 5d9787

So, Kuvusha seem sure that she is allowed to let Orro out and that eventually she will do so. What was her though process to reach this conclusion?
No. 139446 ID: 5d9787

I guess Subject 004 is a rogue Sect. I'm not sure about the others...
No. 139447 ID: 668d30

I hope one is an Amtsvane. I don’t actually think any of them are, but I like those big green therapods. So I hope we see one. As a treat.
No. 139448 ID: 2aa5f0

I too would like to see an Amtsvane just to see how much MC freaks out when she sees something that is ACTUALLY big instead of just being big relative to herself.
No. 139449 ID: 99f29a

You've seen the cells' size, I don't think the amtsvane are going to be much different thanks to translation.
No. 139450 ID: e770db


Other than the fact that suggestors have been leaning in that direction and expecting that to be the case (Typo is the quest author...), Her stated job priorities are to "Aid in recovery from the translation process" for "long-term stability", as well as a secondary priority to document behaviors. There is a logical thruway that integration and interaction are intended as part of the organization's goals, so it makes sense that these would be options available. Kuvusha isn't necessarily sure she can do it, but the infrastructure seems to be there for that purpose.

There are several issues standing in the way even if that were true, such as her initially under-assigned security clearance. It's not unlikely that key resources tied to her position are just not available to her security level and we will need to wait for it to be corrected a bit before some things are accessible. This doesn't mean that suggestors don't want to at least try to cuddle. Cuddling is good.

Honestly, I'm mostly unsure whether things are set up in such a way to lead to a slow burn or not. Kuvusha's intense reluctance implies that we'll be waiting quite a while before things settle but Orro asking right away to open the glass is quite the acceleration. It's maybe just there to create conflict though, from a narrative perspective.
No. 139451 ID: 273c18

The cells are not big enough to house an Amtsvane.
No. 139452 ID: 668d30
File 168019609256.png - (268.15KB , 900x600 , 52C8E65A-C234-4A49-A331-45E6C172EEE3.png )

Assuming that this is an 'Orro is huge and Kuvusha is normal human sized' situation, then it unfortunately looks like an amtsvane might indeed be too big ::(

if it's an 'orro is normal and kuvusha is tiiiiiny' situation then an amtsvane is DEFINITELY too big
No. 139453 ID: e770db


There is absolutely no way that all the other subjects aren't also upscaled like Orro. It would be incredibly surprising if they weren't all scaled by roughly the same amount.
No. 139454 ID: e770db


Orro is easily ~40' if kuvusha is ~5 feet in this image.

We're probably looking at a roughly 10:1 upscale in size for each species.

A 450' amtsvane is a little less than 1.5 Ekwi Irrepaumals.
No. 139455 ID: e770db
File 168021324736.png - (298.94KB , 1598x600 , kuvusmol.png )

I forgot to post the bad mspaint measuring
No. 139456 ID: 668d30

Ohh, a 450’ Amtsvane… I suppose we can only dream…
No. 139457 ID: aa23a8

As mentioned here >>139292 Orro is about five times Kuvusha's height, give or take inevitable art variance.
No. 139458 ID: 92e3a7

Amtsvane has become the final boss of this quest.
No. 139459 ID: 273c18

>figure out what the aliens are?
Ok, I'll give it a shot.

We know what 001 is so I'll skip that.
Can control fire(temperature?) and electricity somehow, and the species doesn't have divergent forms. Improper diet can disable those abilities. Tech level is indeterminate but generally less than whatever tech level the facility has. Easily persuaded. Biology is "normal" but slightly abnormal.

I was stumped for a bit, then looked around in the Races section on the wiki and landed on Scellor... who require psykonium to harness their powers effectively! It sounds like they've only observed Scellor using Psychokinesis, as that can control all types of energy, and most of the other powers don't have easily visible effects. Their tech is pretty high level in WOTU but perhaps the same is true in the facility; we don't have a good knowledge of the setting. We also don't know what time period they're being nabbed from, maybe it just happens to be one where they aren't super advanced yet.

Cold temperature required. Confusion about body types, possibly differences too subtle to detect, or it's a UV/IR difference that the researchers are missing. Body types are hostile vs eachother. Bad eyesight. Can walk on tails. Very good hearing. Generally hostile temperament.

Okay obviously this is Avali. The cold temperature requirement is a dead giveaway. They're a feathered species so having UV markings makes sense. Hearing is indeed an Avali's primary sense. I didn't know Avali can use their tails to move around... maybe that's some sort of common cybernetic augmentation; they have those. The hostility is I think because they started out as a video game enemy.

Mute, difficulty healing, behavior change after capture.

Ah, these are Sect, from Tobak Quest. Not sure why they'd be so rare. This specific subject might be a Sect queen! In that case it's odd that they managed to capture her without her drones interfering. Maybe the place they took her from is in ruin...

Weird body shape, extremely adaptive biology in the long term.

Could be a Salazzarine, since one of their hallmarks is a high mutation rate. Or maybe a slime, but those are usually not very communicative. I think there's some other species that adapts to their environment but I can't remember what it was. Maybe I was thinking of an SCP.

No information, I doubt I'm expected to guess for this one. Tozols can't be teleported so it crossing dimensions should be impossible to begin with, and there's no way they have the tech level to keep one held captive anyway, so I'm crossing that one out. Also of note is that there are Additional Notes, which means this is not the first subject of that species. Since the subject was initially assigned to Kuvusha but restricted and redacted before we got the notes, that implies something new was discovered that made it an infohazard. Mind control? Or did someone try to help them escape due to whatever abilities it has? I'd expect a mind control hazard from a Scellor, but that's number 002.

I guess it could be Siphon in there, and it's a metaphysical hazard they're trying to contain-- oh. This is going to be Siphon's missing friend, isn't it? And the redaction is to keep Siphon from finding out?
No. 139460 ID: 273c18

Oh, subject 004 might be a different bee species being confused for a Sect. There's the bees in King of Pentacles, for instance.
No. 139463 ID: 273c18

Oh right I forgot Cirr's version of Avali are called Criai, and... have different cultural aspects as well as different tails. Maybe that would explain the unexplained abnomalies in the subject compared to regular Avali.
No. 139470 ID: 33c147
File 168038622182.png - (147.82KB , 470x544 , image.png )

No. 139471 ID: aa23a8

yes perfect thank you
No. 139472 ID: e770db

Hmmm, the O/I/R triangle logo is upright on the paperwork but upside down on the uniforms. Wonder if there is significance in that. First thing that comes to my mind is a reflection of the logo, which might fit well against a literal interpretation of "translation" like previously discussed.
No. 139480 ID: 99f29a

A normally-sized amtsvane, yes. Now recall the normal size of neumono and extend the thought process.
No. 139481 ID: 668d30
File 168062007509.png - (1.23MB , 2491x2491 , 5C43A19C-3BA9-49FE-803D-502519703244.png )

I thought it might be prudent to try and assemble some sort of meaning behind the colours and symbology utilised by O/I/R in case it ever comes in useful in the future.

First off: what got me to look into this was >>139472 pointing out the whole inverted triangle thing relevant to whether the logos are located on personnel or an object. I looked into it, and it turns out that the upright triangle is also utilised in whatever software is on the proprietary tablet that Kuvusha was issued in her room. I say it's proprietary because if you look closely, you can see that the home button has the upright triangle logo. This leads me to believe that the upright/downright triangle refers to branding and corporate property when upright whereas downright means personnel or subjects.

Moving on, the colours. So far, the only immediately obvious colours are the blue for Kuvusha, the red for Orro, and the yellow-orange for Ontinaz. My current theory is that this relates to the clearance levels that ontinaz mentions to Kuvusha in the very start of the quest. Specifically, she mentions that Kuvusha's current clearance level is two, and she says that that's a mistake, and that it should really be four or higher. Interestingly, if you look at the lanyard shown in the first panel, you'll see a desaturated red colour with a '2' on it. This leads me to believe that this desaturated red represents level two, and that the blue on Kuvusha's uniform represents any level of clearance above or including four. Ontinaz's yellow doesn't have any number I could readily assign but we can pretty safely assume that it's at least one tier higher than two since Kuvusha says that she's her supervisor. Also, going back to the tablet, you can see that there are two weird little triangles with colours we haven't seen yet. Whilst I initally thought that these could be represntative of clearance levels one and two, that wouldn't align with the desaturated red on Kuvusha's lanyard. That said, there could be some significance here given that one of them is inverted. Could just be I'm looking into it too deep... /shrug

Finally, there's the uniforms. The skinsuits that Kuvusha and Ontinaz are wearing are identical save from the colours and the fact that Ontinaz has a sick-ass lab coat over the top of hers, as well as what appears to be some kind of stylish turtleneck or colour-matching scarf underneath. My current theory is that the jumpsuit is mandatory women's uniform (will expand on the gender thing with Orro in a minute) but that you're probably allowed to accessorise on top of it. The other version (the one that orro wears) is a two-piece shirt and shorts with a markedly different but still sensually form-fitting design.

I say it's the women's uniform because Orro doesn't wear one. That said, it could just be that Orro gets a different set of clothes 'cuz hes a subject. If we ever meet another researcher who's not a girl, maybe we'll get to see a different jumpsuit. Who knows. Another detail is that the armband on each jumpsuit's left arm shares one specific thing - the triangle on it has been drawn in #000000 black, as opposed to the #3D3D3D grey of the jumpsuits. This is consistent with every depiction of the triangle so far /except/ for the triangles on the back of the jumpsuits, which are coloured accordingly to the clearance of the wearer. That said, you may have noticed that orro's red triangle is on the /front/ of his shirt.

This can mean only one thing:

Orro has his shirt on backwards.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

(image contains my mad scrawlings and screencaps and could be useful as reference material when reading through the above essay)
No. 139497 ID: 6a4188

When I saw the login window on the tablet, I figured the up and down pointing triangles are buttons for window maximize and minimize, given they're on the same bar as what I assume is a "X" button to close the window. So I think you overthought their meaning.

Also, in your pic, in the blown up parts of the tablet screen, in the lower left did you show it to point out just the black triangle branding of the "home" button, or that plus the white triangle over horizontal rectangle icon in the lower left of the screen? Because I'm pretty sure that icon in the lower left of the tablet screen is a button to pop out a on-screen keyboard.
No. 139504 ID: 273c18

Okay so 002 was Ketza. Totally forgot about that species tbh. Don't remember anything about them needing a special diet either.

I guess 006 could be Scellor after all, then. Or Space Doobie if we're being silly.
No. 139505 ID: aa23a8

Oh geez. I uh. I should probably note that while there is a size-chart being referenced, I'm otherwise just eye-balling the size of the characters.

Anyone who's read DR will know that sizes can be a bit loosey-goosey, so I wouldn't look into them for any Hard Facts.
No. 139506 ID: 71fb6e

yeah, that's probably what the blue and green triangles are for. I knew it was a stretch, but I thought it best to include it.

Hadn't thought about they keyboard, though. That's interesting.
No. 139510 ID: dee951

So what's this species and whose quest are they from and what are some details about them?
No. 139511 ID: 5d9787

I think the ketzas were created by Slinko.
No. 139516 ID: dee951

So could anyone give an overview of Ketzas, and some educated guesses as to how Ketzas probably work in this quest in particular?
No. 139521 ID: 99f29a

they're feathery guys with some magic. fire's common but maybe not the only type iirc. the magic may be related to their setting so it's hard to say what'd happen in a different setting. absent social context that's the important stuff, individual stuff's probably more relevant here.
No. 139522 ID: e770db

Ketzas are from Slissa Quest, one of Slinko's quests.

They have fire magic. I am not aware of magic suppression techniques possible to use against ketzas so I am not sure what the dietary comment is referencing. Also I am not aware of any electrical magic unless the organization is being confused by extreme static electricity. Get Yaku an ESD bracelet or maybe some heel straps.

Really don't know anything about that dietary thing. All I can imagine is keeping him so lightly fed that he can't think straight but I hardly think that is what they imply.

Also ketzas are generally fairly small, closer to the low end of neumono, which seems to indicate so far that the subjects are enlarged by roughly the same scale.
No. 139523 ID: 5d9787

You're almost correct.
The male and female roles are not exclusive to animals so sperm and ovum don't define the concept. A gamete specialized to travel toward a receiver is considered male and a gamete specialized to receive a traveler is considered female. Pollen, for example, is very different from sperm but it's still classified as a male gamete.
Hermaphrodite is not a sex, it's both sexes. Neither is the lack of sex a sex. A true third sex would require a third type of gamete.
No. 139525 ID: 273c18

>sperm and ovum don't define the concept
Male gametes are called sperm. An organism that produces sperm is male. Yes, it is a bit circular, but it boils down to sperm being small and moving and ovum being big and stationary, and that defines sex. Pollen isn't sperm, technically, more like a container for it. The fine details of how pollen works are not important, and it's much faster to just call it plant sperm.

You're trying to detach the terms sperm and ovum from the concepts of giving and receiving and then attach giving and receiving to the sexes but unfortunately that doesn't work. This isn't Golden Treasure: The Great Green.

For example, fish. Eggs are deposited, then sperm is sprayed towards them. The giver of sperm does not send the sperm to a receiver; the ovum is outside the body of the female at that point.

In a way though you're correct. Sperm are smaller than ovum and thus have to go inside the ovum, and therefore they have the motive force. The giver is the sperm, the receiver is the ovum! It follows that the sex that has sperm is the male, and the sex that has ovum is the female, regardless of where the sperm and ovum meet, because giving and receiving are being performed by the gametes... but it's an overcomplicated definition. I think I'll stick with the scientific one.

>hermaphrodite isn't a sex
That is excessively pedantic.
No. 139526 ID: 5d9787

I mean the gametes themselves. The ovum receive the sperm. A sperm have a rotating tail for locomotion, it swim toward a stationary ovum. Pollen contain antherozoid that move by growing toward the stationary oosfera.
Even lifeforms that rely on large quantities for the unlike chance-meeting of gametes in open water or carried by the wind still have male gametes capable of moving a few centimeters to reach the female gamete.

The process can be diferente but we identify the same roles. We would still identify aliens as male and female, no matter how different from us, by their gametes specialization.
If, for example, an alien organisms were to produce a large gamete that propel itself like a balloon toward a smaller stationary gamete we would identify the larger gamete as the male.

>That is excessively pedantic.
We are talking about definitions, everything you and I wrote in the last few posts is pedantic.

It doesn't make sense to call hermaphrodite a third sex. It can only exist if the specie have the male and female gametes produced by the same individuo, so this individuo can't be classified as either sex. You need the concept of two distinct sexes to even define the therm "hermaphrodite".
No. 139527 ID: 273c18

>We would still identify aliens as male and female, no matter how different from us, by their gametes specialization.
Yes, which is what I said at the start. Those who have sperm are males, and those who have ovum are females.

>We are talking about definitions, everything you and I wrote in the last few posts is pedantic.
Do you know what excessive means?
Bread and meat are individual foods, yet a sandwich is also a food.
No. 139538 ID: d12415

Oof, first time in this disthread...

Sorry about that... tbh I wasnt sure what sort of tone the quest was going to set so idk.

Also, I am sorry for possibly unknowingly instigating the physics trashfire here...
No. 139540 ID: d12415

So, the setting seems sort of similar to SCP or the FBC in Control. Based on this, what is the end-goal here? Are we supposed to study the subjects scientifically and psychologically and use fancy sensors and instruments (I could break out the useless knowledge I have learned in Engineering College :D), or is that not really the direction this is supposed to go? Like, I could science the shit out of this, and if that is the route this is going, then that would be cool, but if not, that is also cool. I just kind of want to know what sort of mindset I should have.
No. 139541 ID: e770db


My expectation is that the quest includes some thinking about the consequences of the translation process, but it is primarily on Kuvusha's end about essentially being a giant alien therapist. It's a character piece about a small character who has no idea what they are doing trying to help and learn about a bunch of giant aliens. (I sort of half-expect that the organization is using her to gauge public reaction and how well that sort of integration will go.)

Aside from that, the bare rooms and seeming focus on the requisitions make me think it might have a tinge of a needs-meeting sort of gamey-ness to it? Building functional living quarters and offering appropriate amenities, maybe somewhat like the sims or like animal crossing villagers?

I can't be sure of the intention though; I just am pretty sure the hyper-realism people are obsessing over is not really the point. It's worth thinking about what translation is or does, but you shouldn't expect the aliens are just going to suddenly collapse into a bloody mess or that Kuvusha is going to contract some impossible alien disease.
No. 139543 ID: 5d9787

This obsession with the translation process seem sillier to me than any talk about realism. The process has yet to be described and will inevitable be arbitrary techno-magic. Since the rules were not established there is no point in speculating. It might not even be relevante for the plot beyond it's role as backstory element for the aliens.
No. 139545 ID: d12415

I actually didn't (just) mean translation, I meant more just studying in general. You know, how their biology works, how empathy works and what it is, how Ketza (ketsa?) magic works, what they are made of, how they are big or how we are small, where they came from, if they are made of matter as we know it, etc. I mean, it would be neat if ket(z/s)a magic comes from some sort of subatomic particles interacting and forming in exotic ways causing them to be able to manipulate more conventional matter in seemingly impossible ways, but that is also diving pretty deep as well.

Idk, realism, and forcibly trying to rectify the clearly impossible with reality (especially when it dives into the more theoretical and speculative stuff where you can be more creative) is interesting to me, but I also don't want to derail the quest by going too far into that sort of stuff if that is not the intention.

I get the vibe that turning it up to eleven right away like the guy earlier probably isn't the way to go, which is why I was asking Typo how far or how little they wanted us to go in that direction,

and if they say they don't want any of the speculative science at all cuz that isn't the kind of quest they want to run, I am fine with that.

But if Typo does want us to dive into the speculative science at least to some degree, I also don't want to miss out on the opportunity.

The quest seems neat regardless and I plan to follow it either way.
No. 139550 ID: aa23a8

We are very much too early in the quest to be discussing end goals!

That being said, I welcome any efforts at "scienc[ing] the shit out of this".
No. 139551 ID: 4bb4df

Considering we are in the tiny cat tridenik version of some kind of cute alien boyfriend panopticon full of cute alien boyfriends who have been infused with a certified Universal Translator, I'm fairly certain the science will be both very soft and very fluffy.
No. 139552 ID: d12415

inb4 lizard
No. 139557 ID: fcb61d

So I appear to have broken a tooth. This may or may not delay updates, depending. Sorry about that.
No. 139568 ID: 5d9787

Be careful with root infections, those can be persistent.
If you have bruxism you have to put an acrylic prosthesis. It's annoying because it will break but if you grind against metal or porcelain your real teeth will break.
Good luck with your treatment.
No. 139569 ID: cce6c4

After meeting with my dentist, I'll have to get a crown.
No. 139570 ID: d12415

How regal! Lucky you!

but seriously, hopefully everything goes well and you are better soon
No. 139573 ID: 2aa5f0

better than a root canal though it is a bit annoying having to wear the temporary crown while they make the real one.
No. 139580 ID: d12415

So here is a weird question: Is there an SCP foundation in Kuvusha's universe? Like, not the organization itself, but the internet stories. If so, what is it called? Just wondering cuz it would be useful to draw parallels that Kuvusha would be more (relatively) familiar with.

Personally, I still think that is where we are.
Two wings over is probably the wing with all of the supernaturally affected alarm clocks or some shit.
No. 139616 ID: ec6d20

Oh you hear that? Ring ring? Somebody get the phone - because I CALLED IT!
No. 139625 ID: d12415

Congratulations, have a sticker.
No. 139674 ID: aa23a8

Hey, sorry for the slight delay. Didn't get the update written as quickly as I would have liked, but it's coming soon.

Also had the first appointment for this today, finally.
No. 139675 ID: 8f9bc4

Oof... good luck with your teeth.
No. 139728 ID: 30d56c

hi i am extremely sick

more quest coming soon though
No. 139729 ID: 443b73

I hope it doesn't have anything to do with an infection on a cracked root. This can be a complicated problem to solve and it's much more dangerous than people realize: an isolate infection pocket inside your bone constantly contaminate your blood and can cause heart attacks.
No. 139730 ID: cce6c4

no this is separate from the tooth
No. 139739 ID: 3936ea

Turned out to be strep. Next update delayed accordingly while I wait for my brain to work again.
No. 139741 ID: 2aa5f0

just getting the crapped kicked out of you by life right now huh?

Well hope you make a quick recovery. Being sick is never fun.
No. 139757 ID: cce6c4

Shooting for the weekend to get an update written. Hopefully this'll be the last interruption for a while.
No. 139810 ID: 5d7c39

I have a quick question about the quest. What is the MC’s race current tech level? As in are the basically modern day earth’s level of tech, closer to world war 2 levels of tech, more advanced than us? Mostly asking since I’ve been assuming that their around our level of tech and have yet to achieve long range space flight.
No. 139864 ID: cce6c4

I apparently cannot catch a break and had my wallet stolen over the weekend. Next update should still be coming soon but is already delayed from when I was hoping to get it written.
No. 139866 ID: 042079

You doing ok?
No. 139892 ID: 8f9bc4

Just want to point out that the research notes explicitly say they had to build a voice synthesizer for moths, so it's not something Kuvusha has to discover or anything.

...she's already forgotten everything in those research notes by now, hasn't she.
No. 139916 ID: cce6c4

Hey all — going to take a little break for a couple weeks. The last, like, two months' worth of updates have been harder to write than they should be and also chronically behind schedule so I'm going to see if this helps.
No. 139921 ID: 8f9bc4

Take care, Typo. Thanks for doing this.
No. 139955 ID: 242107

As if on cue, I'm now experiencing my third extended power outage in the last year.
No. 139970 ID: 443b73

Maybe you are cursed.
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