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File 151677560018.png - (98.18KB , 499x600 , mootpoin dist.png )
119900 No. 119900 ID: a30024

https://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/860238.html

Kind of backwards way of doing this, but now that the first episode is done, what do people think?
38 posts omitted. Last 100 shown. Expand all images
>>
No. 121109 ID: 09587a

Raptie can you maybe not openly dunk on suggestions you don't like in threads? Or at the very least be polite or try to see the other posters view. The current moot point one was really put off by that last thing.
>>
No. 121112 ID: ed67d9

>>121109
I understand where you're coming from.

But.

Understand that the suggestions other people were leaving were putting off several individuals, myself and the author included.
>>
No. 121121 ID: 09587a

>>121112
Then be polite about it, that's the gist of what I'm saying.
>>
No. 121145 ID: 6f0f83

>>121112
ironically in your quest to white Knight for the sake of people's discomfort you wound up making others uncomfortable

maybe you should let people fight their own battles, if they're uncomfortable they need to suggest against them themselves. preferably politely but this is a chan board and violent infighting is pretty much always guaranteed here
>>
No. 121170 ID: a30024

I understand that you guys want to be able to disagree politely, and I'm all on board with that, but I think dredging up a week old post to do a callout is a pretty impolite way to go about it.

I thought Raptie was being fairly polite about it at the time, and wasn't calling out anyone in particular. The discussion moved to the disthread and I think that people got better overall about keeping the suggestions lighter and more chill. While I'd like to keep arguing to a minimum, I understand that there's going to be disagreements between readers and I think you guys have kept things pretty civil so far.

That said, please don't use my threads to do callouts or start fights. This isnt the Coxwette disthread.
>>
No. 122509 ID: 07a312

Aw man I don't do this often but the suggestions I've been getting for this chapter have been fantastic! Thank you guys for keeping things creative and fun! Sorry if Sunfish fans are stuck waiting for updates, its just been really great working on this chapter
>>
No. 122514 ID: eeb7d9

>>122509
Well thank YOU for making this thread, I am loving it.
>>
No. 123221 ID: e5c658

The doom was obviously a 3000-year-old loli dragon necromancer.
>>
No. 123362 ID: eeb7d9

>>123221
I have heard of this before.
>>
No. 123987 ID: ff0134

Pretty soon this quest is going to devolve into The protagonists constantly trying to outdo eachother by sleeping with increasingly mythical/fantastical/divine creatures.
“Oh so you banged a lich? Well i banged a god!”
I’m scared of where this will go next.
>>
No. 123988 ID: 5fa661

>>123987

expect Gurren-Lagann-level escalation
>>
No. 123991 ID: 05ff2f

>>123988
Next stop: The Fates! All three of 'em at once!
>>
No. 125160 ID: 094652

>>/quest/899526
Hm. I could have done that rap better. If anyone wants to improve it just post.
>>
No. 126684 ID: 4c304f

Hey!

Why dont you just recycle your other characters from your not current quests? You seem to being doing your best with moot point so I feel like itd be nice to see some cameos now and then from wasps and such
>>
No. 126765 ID: 2007b6

I notice that the five threads of Moot Point so far seem to be lining up with the five levels described here: https://prokopetz.tumblr.com/post/180645572357/
>>
No. 126766 ID: 91ee5f

>>126765
Oh shit, you’re right! XD
>>
No. 126783 ID: 2007b6

It's not really a perfect one-to-one mapping, but there's definitely an overall trend along the scale being measured. For archival purposes, in the all-too-likely event Tumblr implodes:

Level 1: Porn with plot

Level 2: Porn with social commentary

Level 3: Porn with troubling philosophical implications

Level 4: Porn with maddening revelations of humanity’s place in the cosmos

Level 5: Porn with math
>>
No. 127188 ID: 06fdc0

hmm, how do i put this

toxo, you managed to make a boney look bone-able
the zombie is zoinkable
we are not opposed to getting down with the dead dude we want to make the ol' skin and bones rattle like a maraca
we want to fuck a zombie???
>>
No. 127409 ID: 864e49

STOP MAKING THE UNDEAD LOOK FUCKABLE HOW DO YOU EVEN DO THAT?!?!?!?!
>>
No. 127410 ID: 91ee5f

>>127409
>HOW DO YOU EVEN DO THAT?!?!?!?!
Apparently, he does it very easily, since it happens so often.
>>
No. 127415 ID: 7816e7

>>127188
>>127409
I mean... while fucking ghosts and the undead are kind of the point of the story... I think some people's interpretation of fuckable is a bit different from mine
>>
No. 127422 ID: 06fdc0

>>127415
but they're all such wonderful characters! and your art style makes them all look cute and handsome. they may be dead in body, but they're so alive in spirit!
>>
No. 127801 ID: 864e49

Hey Tox I don't wanna be "That Guy"
but
CoW and The Sunfish?
>>
No. 127808 ID: ba56e6

>>127415
It's the way you draw faces.
>>
No. 128363 ID: cfbbea

>>127415

I admit, I was really dissapointed we didn't get a sex scene with Opinel. Is there any possibility we will get one in the future?
>>
No. 128365 ID: 7816e7

Its something I'll have to think about. Opinel is one of those guys who seems to find combat more romantic than fucking. In a sense... it was good for him...?

This chapter evolved a lot more than most as I was writing it. initially Opinel was a kind of imposing, silent, black knight and I'm really happy with how he came out. But I hadn't planned for any kind of zombie/ghoul fucking in the chapter.

As fun as the lewd stuff is to write, it has to feel like its in character and works with the story. Fuckin Opinel is something Im not going to rule out, but I don't want this to feel like Coxwette where people get angry or disappointed because X character got fucked instead of Y. As the cast gets bigger, I'm not sure who is going to have sex scenes and who wont, but no matter who it is, I want people to feel included in the fun.
>>
No. 128367 ID: 06fdc0

>>128365
how surprised were you when suggestors wanted to lewd the zombies?

i love the quest btw, lewd and lewdless both
>>
No. 128372 ID: cfbbea

>>128365

I understand, its just he turned out to be so ridiculously cute I was sure we were going to have a scene with him.
>>
No. 128380 ID: 7816e7

>>128367
Opinel wasn't too surprising, its more that his character changed at the last minute and I wasn't really expecting to do anything lewd with him. (though as he's clearly been bisected at some point in his past, I have some worrying questions about the mechanics of lewd times)

As for Norman, yeah that caught me pretty off guard. of all the NPCs, hes the one people wanted to shag? huh...
>>
No. 128385 ID: cfbbea

>>128380

I think people mostly mentioned Norman to be funny, or possibly to see how you'd pull it off.
>>
No. 128828 ID: 8eaf98

How does fay magic work? if it requires a deal I'm sure we could come up with something. We have mostly had Nixxy help with her mind, this seems like a chance to have her flex some more magical muscles unless this is all highly dependent on the fay in question.
>>
No. 128844 ID: bc3a02

As for the complicated and expensive thing, my thought is that as the average citizen probably doesn't know extensive seelee law, they can use tricky wording and uknown rules to fuck people over with their deals.
>>
No. 128845 ID: bc3a02

For nixxy herself though, they might just not think much of her in that sense cause her demeanor is coming off more like an excited tourist.
>>
No. 128897 ID: 7816e7

>>128828
>>128844

These actually both kind of tie together.

The Feywilds are essentially a place where the Age of Wild Magic never ended. Mana is much more readily available there and magic is much more common. Fae society is designed around the idea that many of its citizens are capable of things like: shapechanging, invisibility, and some forms of teleportation. To maintain the rigid hierarchy, they rely on rules that seem arcane and weird to the mortal world.

Some of that ties into the rules of trade between the worlds. Fey don't have a whole lot of interest in things like money, so when buying from them you might end up bartering away... memories, a performance or whatever is in your pocket. The most reliable thing to trade with them is handcrafted goods, since the time and skill involved are recognized as a form of value. There's a fair amount of small household charms that owe their existence to trade between the mortal and fey realms, such as ice charms and magelights.
>>
No. 128915 ID: f46e5e

>>128897
so we need to ask Nixxy what, if any, kind of magic she has, got it.
>>
No. 129123 ID: b7e907

I brainstormed some general possibilities on the newest charater, Clio's apparent resemblance with Augustine Moot, founder of Moot Point. My understanding is that all the comments/speculations/analyses/casual conversations should be posted here, while the quest-threads are for plot-driven suggestions only. So here they are.

Possibility 1: Clio is biologically related to Moot.

Possibility 2: Clio is reincarnation of Moot.

Possibility 3: Clio is Moot.

Possibility 4: Clio received some of Moot's power.

Possibility 5: Clio was exposed to a power source which Moot was also in contact with.

Possibility 6: Clio received her power through an attempt to replicate Moot's power.

Personally I think them being relatives is most likely; it's an intuitively straghtforward connection. She doesn't have to be a direct descendent; could also be a distant relative from a family line that stayed when Moot gated away. Though her lack of training / knowledge of the senders still have to be explained. Perhaps she was seperated from her family from youth? Or the power was lost in her family line until emerged again on her? Could the chapter title "The Wild Hunt" be an indication that some fays are involved?

Regardless, I'm enjoying this quest as always, and look forward to see how things go.

I also think it'd be amusing if by the end of chapter, Gabe ends up learning Claíomh Solais after spending time with Clio...
>>
No. 129545 ID: b1b4f3

I really have to wonder why there are so many people who apparently never read any other suggestions. That's especially important when a riddle or puzzle is involved.

This one was solved in the first two suggestions, then we got a ton of suggestions who are either trying to cheat, or don't understand the rules.
>>
No. 129546 ID: 53cdab

>>129545
That's because the first two suggestions contained the classic answer, the one that's sure to work when the puzzle is explained by a third party. It goes out the window when the alleged knight and knave are the ones explaining (an example of this I can remember off-hand was Yu-Gi-Oh).
>>
No. 129547 ID: 53cdab

>>129546
Thinking back of it, it can be made to work when the knight and knave explain, but there's a trick to it. When I showed this riddle to my BC players, I had both location-bound pink horrors say the same words while pointing at different doors: "This door leads to doom, and this door leads forward, I always tell the truth, and (point to each other) he lies!"
They were both lying anyway to cover up the hidden third door.
>>
No. 129548 ID: 91ee5f

>>129546
>(an example of this I can remember off-hand was Yu-Gi-Oh).
I know that one.

Here, this will explain how Yugi solved that riddle. https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Paradox_Brothers%27_dungeon
>>
No. 129598 ID: 91ee5f

Anyone else notice how there’s fewer suggestions every time there’s sex and afterwards, the number suggestions start increasing again? What’s up with that?
>>
No. 129601 ID: 7816e7

>>129598
Im not really sure why, but its something that I feel like has been there since the beginning. I kind of roll with it, but it can make it tricky to figure out a direction sometimes.
>>
No. 129610 ID: bb78f2

My guess is that everyone is busy waiting for the porn to be over before they can problem solve again (or put work in for more porn rewards later).

They got what they want in that moment and all they can really suggest in that period is what positions to take. The reality is that a lot of people simply agree that sandwiching is what they wanted, and don't want to keep responding with "THIS, SANDWICH TIME" except for a few people.

Then a little bit after, a majority are probably confused on what to do exactly because there isn't a goal list after the porn scene, so people need time or new updates/panels to reorganize their thoughts and in-quest goals. People aren't actually sure what to do next. Then once we're rolling the suggestions and ideas come through in order to meet those goals.
>>
No. 129611 ID: 8eaf98

>>129610
so basically we create and solve problems actively, not look for things to solve and without problems we do little
>>
No. 129632 ID: bb78f2

I've noticed how the group has sex all the time with other people, but apparently not enough with each other that when they do bone they say they should do it more often.

There's implications there, man. Not negative ones, it's just a weird one. At worst it means they're almost neglecting each other over other relationships. Porn's happening all the time, but I guess they don't do it enough themselves off screen. At least they're still happy with each other and it seems healthy.
>>
No. 129928 ID: b1b4f3

Fennel is not for lewds >:(
>>
No. 130688 ID: f57349

"Friends with benefits, where the 'benefits' include things like flight and super strength and pocket dimensions" might be a good overall summary of the quest.
>>
No. 131122 ID: ce39da

Popping in to say I've caught up with Moot Point, and I'm loving it. The sex is great, and I love the not-sex even more. Actually, there's literally only one sex scene I skipped/skimmed, and it was the one after the riddle in (I think) Episode 9. And that was only because I couldn't get over how avoidable the "fumble" that led to it was; either the two guardians forgot/didn't understand how and why their own dang riddle worked, or they were outright dishonest to try and coerce a sexual favor from us: The whole point of the "correct question" is to make him give the same answer, regardless of whether he was the liar or not. They literally didn't need to remember who the liar was for this to work; it should only cause things to break down if the test-takers don't ask the right question.

Okay, rant over. I suggest we playfully call them out on it next time we meet them. Be all "you know you could have just asked" on them. :3c
>>
No. 131358 ID: 0195ba

This quest is much harder to read in November. The Nut is strong.
>>
No. 131637 ID: a0dfd2

So the latest update (the festivities with the 'bolds, and Gabe's apology) got me thinking about Kol's words:

Is it possible for a medium to assume another body, just as other spirits have? And if so, what is the Circle's stance on this (at least I think that's what Kol said his order is called)?
>>
No. 131654 ID: a0dfd2

Three Horns and company go to Moot Point and start a band called Kobold Sex Party.

Nobody realizes that the name is literal.

(Please enjoy this thought from 5 AM)
>>
No. 132315 ID: 094652

Do Phoenixes get a new soul when they rebirth, do they lose some cohesion of their mind, or are they as nigh-immortal as fae?
>>
No. 132318 ID: b1b4f3

I hope the newly reborn phoenix is a cute little baby chick.
>>
No. 132399 ID: 3647c6

Dear Toxo,
Thank you so much for this lovely, fuzzy, queer quest! I just wanted to ask whether the idea of being “trans*” exists as a concept in the world of Moot Point? I ask because we’ve encountered so many wonderful characters who could be read as trans (Vivian, Cecil, Cervantes, Miki – gosh, I adore Miki – and now Cauldera). These characters have played a major role in getting me so invested in the quest, and in helping me feel seen and okay with my own identity. However, I don’t want to be doing an injustice to the characters by reading/projecting onto them as trans* if the concept itself makes no sense in Moot Point (though if the concept doesn’t exist because there’s simply no presumed connection between bodies and identities in Moot Point, that’s a nice utopia to aspire to too…)
>>
No. 133840 ID: 094652

Question: is it possible to create a 'spirit contraceptive' by actively enchanting someone's womb to prevent soul energy from entering, or does that create an empty shell?

Alternatively, other magic.

That would explain all the constant unprotected sex.
>>
No. 133847 ID: 9eb9b7

>>132399
Sorry it took me so long to see this! Thank you so much! In canon Im operating where trans identity is totally valid and an accepted part of society. I had actually considered a storyline that went into the mechanics of physically transitioning a bit, but dropped it in favor of helping miki find the missing fire ward. Essentially it boils down to using magic to change as much or as little as the person wants, but is done over a period of time and requires occasional check ups to refresh the magic and see if theyre comfortable with the progress. I had imagined it to be roughly comparable with modern methods of transitioning and that pretty much everyone in the culture knows at least someone whos trans.

Its something I thought about addressing more directly when talking about mikis childhood, but felt that Miki’s transness isnt really her story, its who she is. Her story is that she had a magical ability she couldnt control and her parents taught her a skill that helped her make friends. I wanted it to be clear that she was trans from a very young age and that the support she got let her grow into the talented and happy person she is

>>133840
Yeah, ive never really gone into it, but essentially magical contraception is a pretty common thing. its a simple charm that requires an occasional renewal and is easily removed if someone wants to get pregnant. While the main cast is obviously way more sexually active than the average citizen, the culture has a more relaxed view on casual sex than what we’re familiar with: in part because unwanted pregnancy and venereal disease is so rare.
>>
No. 133903 ID: b1b4f3

I'm guessing that fey, elementals, and mortals can't interbreed?
>>
No. 133997 ID: 3ca6f6

Is there a missing chapter or do we actually jump from chapter 2 to 4?
>>
No. 134091 ID: ffdc3c

>>133903
I would say that there’s some degree of interbreeding possible. Mostly between fey/elementals and fey/mortals. Though fey and elementals are so long lived, that its fairly rare for them to have kids in the first place. Cross planar children would be even rarer but still possible!

>>133997 chapter 1 and chapter 2 are both in one thread, it’s possible thats where the confusion is? The wiki has links to every thread
>>
No. 134108 ID: 812ad3

>>134091
Aaaaah yes indeed!
Because I was just adding the latest thread on the wiki and saw the discrepancy so I wanted to check.
If you guys are ok with it I might take a minute to fix the numbering
>>
No. 134305 ID: 094652

Can the flames from the marriage festival accidentally create a baby fire elemental?
>>
No. 136253 ID: 9026bb
File 163255079613.jpg - (2.15MB , 2305x1610 , 20210911_174303.jpg )
136253

Hello im Livedenight the furry artist also known as AjayRulezzz. I make a bunch of furry art on my Instagram page for people to enjoy. Toxoglossa i just wanted to let you know how much i enjoyed reading Moot Point so much that i decided to make this sketch of Nixxy flirting with my oc, "Living Night" though i thought it be funny for this water-horse-gal to simp for this dragon-hybrid wearing his iconic mask.
I hope you enjoy this sketch I really enjoyed reading this Novel Series

Better Quality of Sketch is on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/p/CT2us2thkgd/?utm_medium=copy_link
>>
No. 136254 ID: de852d

>>136253
yoo thank you! I think that's the first Nixxy fanart I've ever received!
>>
No. 136266 ID: 3328c7

Litany: I AM COMPLETE!

Viv: Waiiiit, waiiiit, waiiiit, you mothefucker, I challenge you to a rock-off!
>>
No. 136390 ID: 5485a4

Are we back on track for the main plot?
>>
No. 137657 ID: 542423

I'm thinking about editing the Questden page and fluffing it up a bit. Do I need to mark some characters as spoilers? What pictures should I use?
>>
No. 138564 ID: 823a1a

the wiki still only describes but only the first three characters, I know those two spirit bots but I cont remember from which thread
>>
No. 138799 ID: c93f7a

>>138564
Yeah i'll try to update it in the upcoming future if I get some free time.
Any help is appreciated though.
>>
No. 139998 ID: 8f9bc4

Just posting this so I can say I called it, if I called it, without actually calling it right now.

65a038068f400a952b187110a8bc110e0d8ce1adf39854534b92bbef1c6b4619d23329733051f3e6ecdf4869afd5e619abcc3c90665f38143e5515dd96538536 moot_point_speculation.txt
>>
No. 140006 ID: 273c18

>>139998
Is that encrypted text?
>>
No. 140016 ID: 8f9bc4

>>140006

It's a sha512 hash of a file. I can't change the contents of the file without changing its hash, so if I post the correct contents after the big reveal, I will get credit as if I predicted it before!

Well um, credit as... anon, which defeats the purpose of credit, but... at least I can prove that *someone* predicted it!

Mostly I'm just messing around.
>>
No. 140850 ID: 4591f8
File 169657578235.png - (17.29KB , 608x564 , Gabriel Moot Point.png )
140850

i like Moot Point a lot. especially how fey are represented. so i drew a guy
>>
No. 141359 ID: 7695ec

"Rutattezen" seems both just close enough to a name I've heard before and just far enough I can't tell if this is a reference to some historical figure or not
>>
No. 143710 ID: 273c18

I realized we've met a fire elemental, water elemental, wind elemental/god, but no earth elemental!
>>
No. 144213 ID: 9a9e86

So in the end, is it supposed to be "lichfire" or "litchfire"?
Are we talking about fire made by a lich, or by a litchi?
>>
No. 144563 ID: b4c241

>>/quest/1101551

My mood music for this thread is "Cult of the Lamb OST - Sacrifice".

I'm not all that familiar with the story of this quest. I've just been kind of vaguely aware of its existence for a while, until I decided to check out the current thread out of curiosity and found that it was in the middle of a scenario that was highly relevant to my interests. It was the public bondage scene that particularly got my attention. The whole experience has been very enjoyable so far!

I'll admit that I got overeager with some of my more exotic interests during Gabe's scene. I should have taken the hint earlier that the ideas I had in mind weren't compatible with the scenario. Thanks for still trying to work with me even then. The way it turned out was very satisfying.
>>
No. 144624 ID: b4c241

How far in advance was this whole "living statue gallery" thing developed, in terms of what it is and how it functions and the like? It seems like different things are being described at different points in the thread.
>>
No. 144806 ID: b4c241

There's some controversy over whether certain sex scenes were consensual or not. I'm going to try and state my case as clearly and thoroughly as I can, in hopes of resolving things without too much drama. Observe:

>>/quest/1115029

What's happening here is that Kol is being magically forced to experience unnatural emotions, while completely immobilized and incapable of thought, for an immeasurable period of time. He is being subjected to a unfamiliar sex act which is far more extreme than the mundane sex acts he agreed to in this scene, and simultaneously rendered completely incapable of protesting. And he was given no warning that this would happen to him. Thus, he did not and was unable to grant consent, explicit or implied, before or during the act. This is a problem because the scene was intended to be safe bondage/dominance play and is being treated as such, and other scenes in the sequence make a point to include consent which is absent here.

We did agree to other acts, which include providing sexual services and being displayed in public. Invasive mind control magic is something else entirely. Someone who wanted to justify it (I'm that someone, I really, really, really wish I could justify everything Argus did) could argue that Casey and Gabe were willing because, even though they didn't understand what was going to happen to them, they knew that something was going to happen and they chose to take their chances. But seeing it happen to Kol was the reason they learned about it at all; Kol himself had no such opportunity to refuse.

One might claim that Kol agreed by accident by agreeing to a bargain he didm't understand. I reject this notion. Based on the information we had when we made those agreements, events go as follows:

Before we signed the contract, we were told that it would entail acting in Argus's service, and "spending some time on display". An example of the latter can be seen during the previous scene in the arena; this is what we could reasonably expect our agreement to mean, based on how it was described prior to signing.
After we agreed, and were thereafter unable to withdraw consent, we received new information on what "being on display" actually meant. It was very different from how it was presented earlier, involving unfamiliar magic which was described in vague and poetic language which gives us lityle actual information. At this point, we know what it looks like to an outside observer, bot only that. Notably, we were not told when it would occur.
Finally, we reach the context for the above: Argus demands sex from Kol, adding that he won't be forced to provide that particular service if he doesn't want to be. Kol agrees. During an otherwise mundane sex scene, Argus suddenly forces Kol into the aforementioned magic, which he had not previously mentioned he intended to do during that act, nor explained at all, giving Kol no opportunity to accept or refuse until after it was over.

In summary, Kol could not and did not offer consent. He lacked the necessary information. Argus clearly didn't intend to be a rapist, and the author clearly didn't intend to write a rape scene, but that's what ended up happening.

Some argue that this doesn't match the tone of the quest. That is exactly the problem. If the events of a story don't match the tone the author wants to write, that means they shouldn't happen, not that they didn't happen. But once it happens, it happens. This is what happened here, and the only appropriate response is to address it.
>>
No. 144808 ID: 70f58a

>>144806
That doesn't look like mind control to me. It's paralysis and warped perception of time. Also, you're exaggerating how "extreme" it is.
>>
No. 144811 ID: b4c241

>>144808
"Doesn't look like"...? That is mind control, even the way you put it. And you left out some important parts. Argus not only made Kol completely immobile and drastically warped his mind's perception of time, he also hijacked all of his senses, overloaded his sense of pleasure, and rendered him incapable of thought during the experience. I'm not exaggerating how much of an escalation this is from what they were doing at the time.

And then there's the main issue, which is that Argus never gave Kol the ability to give or withdraw consent, despite telling him he had permission. Kol couldn't have consented beforehand because he had no idea it was coming, and he can't be said to have allowed it passively because he was unable to even process what was happening to him, let alone move, speak, or otherwise give any indication if he wanted it to stop, until Argus was finished.

By contrast, Argus also unexpectedly put Kol in bondage shortly prior to this, but there weren't any moral issues with that because Kol was still able to decide if he wanted Argus to continue, and would have been able to protest if he had felt otherwise. The same goes for most of the other things he's been doing. Argus clearly understands that he has certain responsibilities in how he treats Kol, but he failed to fulfill them and it's fair to tell him so.
>>
No. 144813 ID: 70f58a

>>144811
>hijacked all his senses
Oh, so showing someone a photo is hijacking their eyes now?

Either you're delusional or arguing in bad faith.
>>
No. 144814 ID: 70f58a

Like, Argus explained how it worked already. The vision they're having is from them seeing into Argus's mind. Even "hijacking" someone's senses is in the category of illusion, not mind control. Mind control is stuff where someone is made to do something against their will. You know, CONTROLLING someone's MIND? So it just sounds like you're playing with words to make it look way worse than it is.
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No. 144815 ID: 70f58a

Oh, as for not being able to think, I'm pretty sure that's because Kol was busy cumming his brains out.
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No. 144816 ID: b4c241

We see firsthand that Kol is incapable of perceiving the world around him with any of his senses (or moving, speaking, or thinking) while Argus traps him in one of these scenes. We now know that Argus draws the scenes from his memory, but only that; the exact mechanics aren't as relevant as what Kol was forced to experience, and his experience was so overwhelming that we seriously thought it was time travel at first. A photograph doesn't come close to describing it.

As for the question of how much of Kol's mind Argus can take control of before it counts as "mind control", that's a matter of semantics. What matters is that this was done to him against his will. He was never able to say "no". If you think he did consent at some point and I missed it, then when and how did he?

Also, I don't appreciate the notion that I'm maliciously trying to demonize Argus. His scenario is what got my attention in the first place. When it comes to his actions, I'm trying to justify everything I can and forgive what I can't. It's only this one thing for which I'm forced to choose "forgiveness" because I can't logically justify it, but the first step towards forgiving him is to acknowledge that he did something bad to forgive. That's my immediate goal here: to call out Argus on violating his own morals, so that he'll realize what he did wrong and remember not to make the same mistake again.
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No. 144817 ID: 70f58a

Sure, you're saying that you're not demonizing Argus but you're constantly deflecting attempts to talk you down from the severity of the accusations. Yeah, it was intense. Intensely pleasurable. Yeah, they saw things they didn't understand or expect. Yet, they all agreed to be put in the Gallery. Heck, the original expectation was that they would be put on display themselves, as conscious art pieces, rather than sculptures created from moments recorded by Argus's mind. Kol thought it was time travel at first because that experience was sooner than expected, that's all.

Honestly what I think is really going on is you got super obsessed with the quest and kept making these really high effort (and frankly a bit cringe) RP posts in it, but the author doesn't seem to be going along with it so you're either lashing out at them (Toxoglossa has stated that the quest is founded on consent) or thinking that if you make a post that's super hard to ignore then you won't be ignored anymore.
buuuut I'm often a bit paranoid, so maybe you're just... I don't know, weird and dumb. Maybe you missed that Argus is a Fey creature and the mice all signed an actual Contract to be able to go on the heist, which included details regarding the penalty of being put on display in the Gallery.
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No. 144818 ID: b4c241

>>144817
This has nothing to do with the fact that Toxo has only sometimes gone along with my suggestions. I'm perfectly fine with the story not exactly adhering to my personal kinks; we like different things, and it takes some adjustment to align my suggestions with what the author likes to write. That's just how questing goes. Like I said before, I'm here because it's been a very enjoyable experience and I'm glad to be able to participate as much as I have.

This isn't about that. This is about one particular issue that needed to be adressed: the bath scene was meant to be consensual, but it wasn't.

You've been downplaying the severity of Argus's actions by describing them inaccurately, e.g. comparing a full-sensory hallucination to looking at a photograph. I haven't found a truly valid excuse yet. As for you latest reasons:
"They signed the contract" doesn't work because they weren't informed of what it meant until they weren't able to refuse anymore, Kol wasn't informed that it would happen in the bath when he agreed to have sex there, and it being so different from what they were led to expect only makes it more true that Kol did not consent.
You addressed the fact that Kol's mind was so overloaded with unfamiliar sensations that he was incapable of thought by stating that he was "overloaded with pleasure". That doesn't happen from the kind of sex Kol agreed to (or from looking at a photograph). Calling the mind-breaking experience "pleasure" doesn't justify it in a situation where Kol did not consent.
Kol thought it was time travel not because it was "sooner than expected". I don't know how you came to that conclusion. He thought that he was sent to the future because he was forced to experience an immeasurably long period of time incapable of motion, thought, or perceiving the world around him. The entire time, he had absolutely no way to change his situation or communicate any possible distress, meaning that Kol did not consent.

Apart from that last one, I've already considered all these justifications and more, and they just don't work. The only thing I can think of that could work is the possibility that Kol is willing to forgive Argus if he takes responsibility for his actions.
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No. 144819 ID: b4c241

Toxoglossa: What do think about this? Talking about it has been very stressful for me, and I'm sure it hasn't been easy on you, but I felt like I needed to say something and I don't know what else to do. Am I making any sense to you at all?
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No. 144831 ID: dacc20

I'll be honest I just got back from having a really magical time at the con and I'm kind of fucking tired and stressed out about this too. I've been trying to work along with your suggestions but the intensity is, honestly, kind of creeping me out: particularly some of the stuff with Gabe's first sex scene and, like, wanting so see him punished and stuff. that was really kinda pushing some boundaries for me and I was kinda just trying to write past all that.

But that aside, I didnt fully explain what kind of magic they'd experience beforehand and that's on me and I apologize. Thats MY fault, not Argus's and I should do better as a writer. Its the first time Ive written something so kinky into the story and Im still figuring out how to balance around it. Consent is something I take really seriously in the story, and so Im gonna try and do better in the future. I dont intend to address it or confront Argus about it in the story because its my mistake, not Argus's and I dont intend to write him as someone who would violate consent like that.
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No. 144832 ID: b4c241

>>1144831
I'm sorry. I didn't realize my enthusiasitc roleplaying was making you so uncomfortable. I was playing it up because I thought it enhanced the mood, and I thought you were having fun with it. I'll tone it down significantly from now on. You have my sincerest apologies for that, and for spoiling the good mood you had going.

For the Gabe thing, that was mostly from an elaborate and poorly-thought out plan that went something like this: Gabe freaks out over his situation, Argus comforts him and assures him that it won't be that bad, Gabe admits that he weirdly enjoys being afraid of Argus, and they agree to do some harsher kinky stuff together. In retrospect I fully realize what a bad idea this was and I won't try something like that again.

Now, about Argus. I've been pondering this a lot and I have a lot to say about it. No pressure to read all this while you're feeling stressed out, but I'm going to put all my thoughts out here so they're here whenever you're ready. Here goes:

We didn't need a full explanation of how his magic worked (and we still only partially know); it would have been valid if they knew they were going to experience something didn't fully understand. It would be an unknown factor, but a "known unknown" factor they could choose to experiment with. Casey and Gabe made that choice, but Kol couldn't. The core of the problem is that he didn't know that Argus was about to do it to him; if Argus had said something like "I'll show you what being put in my collection is like", then Kol would have known that something more than normal sex was about to happen, and he could choose to find out what it was, avoid the risk, or ask for more information first. The rest of the time, Argus was responsible enough that his partners could have refused or asked him to stop if they wanted to. It's only that one specific act that went too far.

As for Argus himself, it's sadly undeniable that he did in fact do something that's "out-of-character" for the person he wants to be. You wrote it that way without meaning to, but Argus actually did it in-story. It's an established fact of the narrative now, with or without acknowledgement. And it's not entirely against the characters' personalities. Argus is confident to a fault and used to feeling invincible, so he actually could get slightly careless in the worst possible way. And Kol has been noticeably more uncertain about being a servant than the other two, which wasn't meant to be related, but it could partially stem from a subconscious unease with what happened in the bath, even if he's been enjoying himself on a conscious level. And they would and should talk about it at some point, even if it happens "offscreen".

It's clear that Argus would deeply regret it once he understood what he did, and Kol could probably forgive him if he did something significant to make up for it. I've been pondering what he could do, and my best idea is that Argus "un-heals" the tooth that Kol knocked out and leaves a permanent gap in his smile. It won't significantly inconvenience him (just like, through sheer luck, Kol is much less traumatized than he could have been) and they won't ever have to bring it up in conversation, but it will always be there as a reminder of the time he got careless, and as a promise to himself and Kol that he'll never make the same mistake again. I had this elaborate scenario in mind where they decide not to have sex until Kol can beat him in a practice fight (by taking another tooth) in hopes that being strong enough to defend himself would help Kol feel less like a victim, but if you don't want to acknowledge it in-story, you could simply show Argus with a missing tooth to show that they addressed the issue without openly addressing it.

I don't want to put even more stress on you, but I have to note that Caleb is also to blame for what happened. He gave Kol incomplete information without a reason to think it was incomplete, even though he knew what Argus's gallery was like, setting his lover up to trap himself in a contract he didn't understand. Of course this isn't the kind of thing he'd do intentionally. Maybe Argus explained it to Caleb when he asked and Caleb assumed he'd do the same for Kol.
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No. 144833 ID: 07e821

>>144832
No Im not doing this. I already told you that I wont be addressing it in the quest. Frankly, this is the kind of thing thats really starting to creep me out and make me upset. Given how enthusiastic you’ve been with suggestions throughout these scenes with Argus, and how much youve bent over backwards to insist “no no no I am enjoying this, but argus though…” it makes me feel like all of this concern about consent is disingenuous , and that its really more about fulfilling some specific type of fantasy or character moment, and at this point I can’t tell if you’re being genuine. Either way, I think you should step away from the quest for a bit because I’ve already said what Im going to say about it and im not interested in addressing it in the story itself
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No. 144834 ID: b4c241

>>144833
I'm really not trying to do anything like that. I understand completely that the way I was posting made you uncomfortable and I would have stopped if I had known. I only brought up the issue with that scene because it didn't match the story you wanted to tell. It's not some backhanded plot to trick you into fulfilling a fantasy, I get that we don't have the same kinks and it has nothing to do with that. I'm honestly just giving my thoughts on how to handle something that bothered you about your story.

Well, I've said what I could. Sorry again for causing you so much distress. I really, truly, didn't have any idea that my exaggerated posting style was bothering you anywhere near this much.
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No. 144835 ID: b4c241

To be clear, I've been deliberately exaggerating my enthusiasm this whole time because I thought you liked it. I thought you were enjoying it the same way I was and were trying to encourage me. I would have stopped if I had any idea it was upsetting you.
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No. 144836 ID: b4c241

...I still need to clarify that my concerns genuinely have nothing to do with my enthusiasm. If you need a reason to believe me: I liked the bath scene when it first happened! I said as much at the time! If I was trying to put my kinks in the story, I'd keep praising it in hopes of seeing more things like it. It was only after I got used to the story you wanted to tell that I looked back and realized that scene didn't fit with it. The reason I was so verbose is to lay out my reasoning as clearly as possible for why it's so important to fix.

Simple version, if you ever want to look: Now that it's been written into the story, it's explicitly something Argus did once. Disregarding it only makes him remorseless about it. This is no longer a story where consent has never been violated, but it risks becoming a story where consent is violated and this is never treated as a bad thing.

I think that's all I need to clarify. I get that this has been a really bad day for you and I'm... not sorry for being the bearer of bad news. But I'm sorry for exaggerating my roleplaying that much. And I'm sorry for the whole Gabe thing, I fully realize I went way too far with that. And I'm just sorry in general. I promise that spoiling this experience for you was the last thing I ever meant to do. I'd try to end this on a positive note if I could, but... well, it's probably better to just rest for a little while. Maybe things will feel better tomorrow.
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No. 144837 ID: dacc20

>>144836
I've already stated, twice, that Im not interested in addressing it in canon at this moment. If I figure out a good way to deal with it, I will but I'm not perfect and this story is not perfect. there's stuff that I think I fucked up writing: like Cecil fooling around with Gabe while high on plant spores, or litany deadnaming Vivian. I'm doing my best to keep the vibes comfy and establish consent at all times. I thought I had done enough to establish consent going into the scene with Kol: through his agreement to have sex, having Caleb explain earlier in the chapter that glamour's can't hurt you, and having the mice all see what "displaying" actually means.

I have already apologized and admitted I fucked up and taken responsibility. at this point, if you're still uncomfortable, I think that's on you and you should, I reiterate, step away from suggesting for a while. I'll be honest, I'm getting sick of this chapter as im sure some of the other readers are, and I just want to move on and not fucking linger on it. this was supposed to be a fun, kinky training arc but now its just dragging on and I dont even care.
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No. 144838 ID: b4c241

>>144837
I thought you were upset with how the scene went because you agreed that Kol didn't have enough information to offer genuine consent.

I've previously shared an idea for how to show it was addressed in-universe without directly acknowledging it on-page if you don't want to ruin the mood. It was kind of buried in that giant post where I explained everything. I could post a simpler version if you want to read it.
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No. 144839 ID: dacc20

I dont, I really dont. I read it and I already said no. Three times now. I've tried to be nice about asking you to chill out, but now I'm telling you: stop it. Im already having a miserable day dealing with con crud, I dont want to ban you from posting in my threads, but I will if you dont start respecting my boundaries.
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No. 144840 ID: b4c241

>>144839
Okay. Sorry for dumping all of this on you right when you came back from a break. I've said about all I can say on the matter, so we'll just leave it unacknowledged from now on. I'll just assume Kol and Argus talked it out offscreen and I won't pressure you to do anything to show it. I genuinely thought you might have missed my idea and want to hear it, since it was buried at the end of an excessively long post and, with all the stress I've caused you already, it would be totally understandable if you skipped over it.

I will say that it was fine when it happened to Casey and Gabe, since they saw what happened to Kol and knew to expect the unexpected. That one rationale was valid. It's only when it happened to Kol that crossed a line; there wasn't a problem with anything else, and if it ever seemed like I was saying otherwise, that was just part of my ill-advised and overdone roleplaying.

Okay, I'm done for real now. I apologize again for causing so much stress with my behavior. In hindsight, I can see how hard it's been to be patient with me. From now on, if I decide tp participate in your quests I'll keep it appropriate to the thread's intended tone and significantly less overwrought.

Let's change the subject. On the remote chance of ending on a better note, is there anything you did like about any of my suggestions in the thread? It's fine if you don't feel like answering, or if you want to wait until you're in a better mood before dealing with me again. But it might help to think of something more positive.
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No. 144841 ID: b4c241

>>144840
Wait, no, ignore that last question. This is definitely not the right time.
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No. 144842 ID: eb1f3d

If I can stick my oar in here as a first time commenter on this thread; I don't think that Argus as a character has too much to apologize for. There was, as previously stated, a contract and in story Tox showed what would happen to those defeated. I feel like the exact manner of said display tripped some alarm bells in how it was described, since it was some magical bullshit. Was it the most ethical BDSM scene? Probably not. Could it have been fixed with a line or two from Argus? Perhaps! Is it worth getting upset about? In my opinion, no. And here's why: it's human. It's human to sometimes forget things and accidentally omit something or other in exact detail, and while that was an experience Kol couldn't have known to anticipate, he lives in that world and could reasonably anticipate some fey magic bullshit with the exact manner of his being put on display, especially with gates not working as they usually do to begin with. And since they did sign the contract and basically consented to being put on display should they lose -- which they did -- the only unknown factor is the exact manner of their display. Which was, again, fey bullshit. They, and Kol, have experience with fey and fey bullshit. That being put on display entailed magic that altered their perception so they could, briefly, experience the moment of their orgasm stretched out while the "camera" captured it... yeah.

But again, it's human to forget detailing or warning about the exact details, especially when Argus in particular is taking that mouse to pound town and getting off his own self
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No. 144843 ID: b4c241

>>144842
You're definitely going too far here, and I say that as someone who's been making that mistake for a while now. I disagree for previously stated reasons, but I won't repeat myself again because Toxo wants to drop the subject and so do I.

We're fine with Argus as a charachter and that's the bottom line.
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