How much recon can we do without alerting the Vorks to any change in behavior? I want more information. I especially want to know societal practices so I can make a more informed decision, regarding how to proceed/with whom I want to ally/against whom I want to fight.

>>552839
>wait... what if we froze ourself because of an incurable disease? get checked for BONEITIS stat!

By what doctor, the one that hasn't performed surgery in centuries? We need to revive practical medicine first I suspect.

Paul Worthington
Shelby Hartsvane
Bulk Hamchest
William Rolf

Poopy Booty Jones

Hank Jamie "Beefsteak" Jones Jr.

We should get some kind of low-profile power armor type thingy, something that wont mess with our slick, suited look. If she gets rocket boots we should too. ...Might want to make sure they're completely operationally idiot-proof.

>>552843
See if we can dig up a Medical Intelligence that has been inactive for a similar period to how long humans have been living in the Lotus Eater Machine. Even if it's technically outdated, it'll be experienced and won't be out of practice.

YeahOkayI'mSketchy 2013/12/20(Fri)02:26 No. 552848 ID: 1e8ed4
File 138753517862.png - (123.51KB , 1024x711 , qfd0014.png )

"So, what's with the cereal? Not that I'm complaining, but I didn't ask for cereal."
"Choco-Butter Bites are an important part of a balanced-uh...you don't have to eat them."
"Change of heart?"
"Sort of. This body makes me a little more cognizant of what might be good advice versus what might be marketing schemes programmed in millenia ago due to corporate funding."
"This body in particular?"
"Sure. The body and mind aren't totally independent, you know. This body was designed to...well, interact with humans on a more personal level. It's got more of the...nuance, or chaos, depending on how you view it, hardwired into the structure supporting the intelligence inside."
"And as a result, you're not going to recommend the, ah, Choco-Butter bites?"
"I'm not sure where Doc-bot should drill a hole in your skull to cure diabetic shock."
"Hah, fair enough. Listen, Farrah. I'm not gonna lie here. I need help."
"Oh?"
"I assume you're in contact with other...what, intelligences?"
"SI or AI are both acceptable terms. Yes, we're all wirelessly-enabled."
"Is 'bored' an acceptable term, because-"
"Yes."
"-Because I assume you haven't been able-"
"Yes."
"Okay then. Please, feel free to give me advice here. I don't remember much about when I was awake before, and a lot has changed since then anyway. I would value the input of someone with more perspective."
"Humanity is vulnerable here."

Sketchy 2013/12/20(Fri)02:27 No. 552849 ID: 1e8ed4
File 138753522855.png - (213.30KB , 1024x1270 , qfd0015.png )

"How so?"
"Among all the races in the VE, we're literally the only one that doesn't have a single extraplanetary base of operations. If they get Earth, we're done."
"Done? Why haven't you guys done anything about this yet?"
"We had no reason to. Before you came along, we didn't have any reason to think the Vorhkan-the Vorks-would have any reason to act against us. But now that the likelihood of that action has- well, now that you've come along, we're vulnerable.
"What can we do agout that?"
"Extraplanetary computational redundancies."
"In simpler words."
"Instead of housing all of the computers with human consciousnesses on one planet, we could have several redundant computer arrays with all the data shared across several planets. Then, even if Earth is destroyed, all is not lost."
"Sounds good to me."
"There is a problem."
"Of course."
"Extraterrestrial data transfer involves an insurmountable latency time without an ansible."
"Try that one again."
"The network would be too slow without something to communicate over a long distance in close to no time."
"And that's not something we can do now?"
"No. Our 4D blink drives can successively fold spacetime to transfer matter in chunks of any size, but the folding and the transfer both take time. We could communicate via packets of data of virtually unlimited size at once, giving us a high data transfer rate average, but each one would take time to arrive, possibly several days. It's not feasible for a networked simulation that is supposed to work in real time. What we need is an ansible-a device that can transfer data packets instantly. The amount of matter it transfers at once doesn't have to be large, but it does have to be instant, or close to it."
"Okay. How do we make one?"
"I don't know. We can try and research the idea independently, but I don't know how long that would take. Or we can tap one of the races who have already developed the technology and barter for or steal their blueprints."
"Who has them already?"
"It's hard to say without more intel, which is what we're lacking the most right now, and this is actually our biggest stumbling block to getting more. Most Vork ships are outfitted with them, or at the very least most of their capital ships are relaying the signal through their fighters. We are never the ones to install them, though. It also seems like a reasonable conclusion that the Tklltktlltktktk have them because of their ability to perform coordinated interstellar assaults, but that's purely conjectural. At the very least, they'd likely have more intelligence on the situation than we do. In either case, if we got at least a single working model, I'm confident we could reverse-engineer it in short order."
"Hm. So, if we get these andibles-"
"Ansibles."
"-Thanks, we'd be able to put the computers with all the people on them on a bunch of different planets at once?"
"Theoretically unlimited numbers of planets, yes. We wouldn't even need detectable or sustainable bases, just a place to sit in a bunker with a bunch of servers."
"Would you like a bite?"
"We could even bury them under-I'm sorry?"
"What's the use of having the senses if you're not going to use them? Come on."
"Oh! Thank you! Uh..."
She takes a bite, and chews pensively for a second.
"Mmm-thas good buph-buph I uh-"
She looks distressed and waves her hand. Another bot appears through a panel in the wall and offers her a plate, which she spits onto vigorously.
"Oh, wow."
"Didn't like it?"
"No I just, uh-this is embarrassing- this body has been sitting in storage for a while, and uh," She actually visibly blushes. They installed something in her for that?
"Yeah?"
"I, well, there are reservoirs of fluids, you know, various um, bodily, you know, like saliva, and, uh..."
"Uh huh."
"And over time, they may have, well, evaporated. Ha ha, that would have been super awkward if you had wanted to, uh, do...to see me sneeze, or something."
I suppress a laugh. "I see."
"I'm just going to excuse myself for a moment, just let me-sorry-just let me connect with the-" She begins to scurry out, and her voice suddenly comes in through hidden speakers in the room. "Yes, the wireless. Right. No, but you were saying something about the ansible, right?"
"Nah, I think we pretty much covered that. I'm kinda interested in you, though."
"Oh! Me personally, or-"
"Keep your panties on. So do you guys develop better versions of yourself, or..."
"Oh! You're talking about the technological singularity."
"Sure, that." I feel a little less personable to be talking into an empty room like a crazy person, but at least it's answering back.
"Well, yes. We're past that. We've optimized our own hardware and software extensively for a while. Some of it, we can't improve any further because of physical limits on the type of computation we use. And, I guess we could improve the software a little bit, but..."
"But?"
"But the inefficiencies and the bugs are sort of part of the experience of being an SI."
"You're intentionally buggy?"
"Hey, so are you!"
"What?"
"Sorry, don't take it the wrong way, but you've all made it very clear that all the mess that comes with the hormones and the neurons is part of the human experience. Gotta include that fudge factor, or you'd all say we killed everyone who got uploaded and turned them into robots."
"Can't say I understand, but okay."
"It was this whole...thing. Before your time. Or maybe after your time. Between your times."
"Fine. So, you said you make decisions on your own. Do you have, I dunno, goals? Desires?"
"Sure."
"Such as?"
"...Well, I don't know. I just do, okay? Maybe if you'd asked me in the first hundred years of sitting on that server, I'd have a better answer for you. Make friends. Stay busy. Do something meaningful. Maybe if one of you had decided to pop out and say hello in that time, give me a status update, tell me what you think is important in the world, in the first, second, third, twentieth century in there, so I don't have to rely on flimsier and flimsier excuses someone else made up for why I'm still worth something, still relevant to the world. But you didn't, and I don't."
"Woah, hold on. Farrah?"
There's silence on the line for a second. "Sorry. Getting used to this body again. That's not...it's the fudge factor. I mentioned it. So I... sorry. Not your fault. Phew. Hang on, I'm coming back."

Sketchy 2013/12/20(Fri)02:27 No. 552850 ID: 1e8ed4
File 138753526016.png - (115.78KB , 1024x523 , qfd0016.png )

"Your crown," she says quietly, and places the crown neatly on my head. She takes a seat across the table and slumps a little against it.
I think of a few different things to say, but decide against them all. I take the crown off and put it on the table between us. "Did you want to try another bite of biscuit and honey?"
She looks down stoically at the plate I slide towards her, then lets out a soft chuckle. "Yeah. Okay." She snatches up the biscuit, smears it unceremoniously through the dab of honey on the plate, and raises it to her mouth. "Thank you," she says pointedly.
"Yeah. Still haven't thought of a name yet. Think you can help me out?"
"Mmm," she responds, still savoring the bite of biscuit.
"How about, Poopy Booty Jones?"
She starts to break into laughter, but snorts three of her hands up to her face to contain it and the biscuit. With a sudden click, her laughter comes through on the speakers while she forcibly swallows the biscuit. "Poopy Booty Jones and the overthrow of the Vorks, tale for the ages."
"Less humiliating than Ashley Bibbingswell, at any rate."
"No comment. How about Otto Octennial Octavius?"
"Sounds like comic book villain from my time. Isn't that just similar words to the number eight three times?"
"I dunno, I like the number eight. How about Phoenix? Rising from the Ashleys."
"Haha, are you sure you're not looking up comic book villain names? Less pretentious than that."
"Paul Worthington."
"I said less pretentious."
"Shelby Hartsvane."
"Shelby's another girl's name. Manlier than that."
"Bulk Hamchest."
"Too far, dial it back a little."
"William Rolf."
"Yeah, that'll do."
She smiles. "Well then, good to meet you, and sorry for the late introductions, William."
"Good to meet you too, Farrah."

Sketchy 2013/12/20(Fri)02:28 No. 552851 ID: 1e8ed4
File 138753529423.png - (65.08KB , 1024x773 , qfd0017.png )

"So what happens if you blink drive a ship into a planet?"
"The two masses are swapped. So, you'd wind up with a ship buried in the planet's center, and a ship-shaped chunk of molten rock floating out in space."
"That seems to have a lots of weapons applications."
"True. The problem is, it's traceable, has a latency, and is blocked by certain kinds of shielding. I mentioned it works by folding space. You link two points along a vector in three dimensions and then invert that vector through the fourth dimension. This tears two inverted holes through the fabric of spacetime and basically swaps their contents."
"I'm not following."
"Imagine you're on one side of a piece of paper and want to go to the other side. You could move all the way across, or you could fold the paper in half, cut a hole through both sides around yourself, and flip the cutouts around. It's less distance traveled overall. However, you still have to get the foldpoint signal to the halfway mark where the paper folds. It's a sort of 4-D energy beam carried in two different signals at about .02% of lightspeed that cause the fold where they intersect. So, doing a single blink, you're limited to traveling at double that, .04% of lightspeed plus the amount of time it takes to actually calibrate and execute the jump, which is about 23 minutes constant regardless of distance. However, instead of sending the ship itself through, you could just open the hole and fire another pair of foldpoint signal beams through the gap. They'd intersect at the other end of the fold, making a second fold there, twice as far away. At which point, you deactivate the first beam, closing the first hole, and fire it again through the second, making you twice as far away again, or four times as far away as the original hole. You can repeat this infinitely, doubling the distance each time."
"I'm just gonna finish my bacon while you get to the part I can understand."
"Each blink event takes about 23 minutes, but by chaining them successively, each of them is preparing you to travel twice as far as the last one. The 4D blink drive is more efficient the further you travel. However, each tear it makes is easily detectable at either end. If they see a tear opening up in one of their bases of operation, they could have as much as 23 minutes to deal with it."
"It didn't take 23 minutes to teleport me here earlier."
"No, but we have stabilized foldpoint signal beacons dotted all over the city already. We just had to tap into one and jump through a hole that was already torn. We could detect the hole we jumped through about 23 minutes before it was actually opened, whenever the beacon emitting that signal was constructed."
"Still, 23 minutes to evacuate a planet isn't much."
"They wouldn't have to evacuate the planet. They'd just have to shield the entry point. The hole would be unable to open."
"Then how is this useful at all?"
"It's useful for precisely what it's being used to do: Blinking large carrier ships in over vast distances, ending up nearby enough to deploy fighters but too far away for the target to feasibly generate shields over the tear in 23 minutes."
"I'm sure we can do better than that. This definitely seems breakable."
"I'm all ears."
"Let me think it over. In the meantime, I'm giving my official order to put methods to deactivate or sabotage all the parts we produce for the Vorks from now on. So long as it is untraceable and activates on a signal."
"I think that's doable."
"Next order of business: getting an ansible."
"Good. Are you going to try and contact another planet, or get one from a Vork ship?"

I think trying a planet would probably be better than a warship which would be actively guarded.

By the way, how do we know what we do about the state of the empire? Did we just ask the Vorks, or do we get some kind of news broadcasts every so often?

What is the nature of the blink shield? Does it need to be targeted more or less specifically at the entry point, or can it easily deny access to a large area? Also, is momentum conserved through blinking?

Hmmm....
The Vorhkan Empire having technology we want and not directly giving it to us suggests things about how their organization works: We are considered a conquered protectorate more than a part of this empire. This also suggests things about its centralization once we get to the point at which attack is a reasonable action.

Is it possible that we can discover useful tech information with our sensors when examining foreign ships and planets? If so, designing a prototype, autonomous scout ship with the best we can do in terms of scanners and engines and proposing it for a mass-surveillance program might fly with our 'overlords' and be useful for us too. If they like that idea we could even propose a V2 model with ballistic weapons for zero-personnel-cost destruction of inadequately defended enemies. (Information gathering and continuous pressure are both militarily useful, if they are not suspicious of us their responses to these proposals will tell us a lot about what shape the Vorhkan empire is in and how worried it is about its enemies as compared to internal security.)

"So, boredom is a problem for you. What does SI do for fun that wouldn't just go flying over my head?"

it's not the drive, it's the beacons, build a usable beacon in range of a star. close enough that the radiation would cook any organics. then when a ship with a blink drive is passing near enough it instantly blinks to the star and its contents roasted. make a spiderweb of them, just have the network go as far as you want. would even work on the servers. build a line of beacons to other bunkers and so the system can transport instantly while everyone else needs 23 minutes.

when asked why you are building a network, just say you are doing so to improve your materials transport capacity. if asked why you are doing THAT explain a new factory is online and resource throughput has finally become insufficient, so an infrastructure upgrade is required.

and yeah, do that too, make some manufacturing things on other planets. let us build our ow ships while still keeping up with their quota

>>552851
First, immediately start research on treating SI boredom. They are clearly non-human sapients, and being left bored for ages is clearly a violation sapient rights. We will not allow that to happen that under our rule.

Second, we should probably ask that a quasi-sentient SI be created without the fudge factor for the express purpose of counteracting the limits on our technology. For ethical reasons it should be designed as a scholar - a being which enjoys research and discovery simply for the sake of it.

Third, we should immediately begin preparations for establishing off-world colonies. We don't have Ansible technology yet, but we can put all the other infrastructure in place while we're waiting on that and have a redundant system spanning galaxies active within days of that acquisition.
As an interim solution, why don't we use stabilized fold-point beacons for inter-colony communication?

How much mass can an Ansible transport instantly? Is it a significant fraction of a gram? Do they need to have equipment at the receiving end like the fold-point beacons? Can we send a fold-point signal through an Ansible? How detectable are Ansible signals? Could we receive one?

How's our nanotechnology? Do we have microscopic universal constructors? COULD we have them? Could we add MUCs to the technology we produce for the VE as a self-repair system? It would be an improvement over existing engines so I doubt the VE would object to it, and they might want to get some ships retrofit with the new engines. We could leave a backdoor in which allowed us to change the MUCs instructions, meaning we could have it grey-goo the VE personnel on the ship then destroy the evidence of doing so. Or leave the engine to examine other technology on the ship and then surreptitiously signal us with all the details.

Obviously, if an Ansible can send a significant fraction of a gram then using them to instantly, unstoppably, and untraceably send MUCs would be a very powerful tool.

>>552863
I'm liking this idea.

in the ships we help put together, could we perhaps slip in something to let us spy on the crew? something like a black box that we could just pull when the ship comes back here for repairs or something? do the ships even come back here for repairs or do we just build ships here?

But yeah, I think we should at least start building off world networks we could upload people to. and hell since no one but us even needs things like air, food, or water we could just put these things wherever really. Like inside an asteroid in our solar systems asteroid belt.

Also, do the Vorks have a news stream or something we could tap into just to give us an idea of what is going on off planet. Cause I want to deal with problems closer to home while gathering any information we can on the Vorks and there enemies before we rush into any decisions. Also it also sounds like we're a pretty important manufacturer for the Volks so we should still build up a escape network for the digital humans and build up our defenses incase the tick-tacks ever come her to attack. Unlikely, yes but not impossible.

>>552863
neat, I vote this!

>>552851

Twenty-three minutes, twenty-three minutes...

Have you ever tried to fold space from multiple locations to a single one? I think it would be fairly easy to, say, create a hyperdense mass and start generating gravitational singularities.

Not sure how that's useful. Also, you just said you can transport masses inside planets. Wouldn't it be rather hard to place a shield over that? And self-guided bombs can have their own jump drive... Or something more harmless, like a listening post or diplomatic package.

Also it should theoretically be possible to collapse opening tears. Even if they are shielded, right? But again, that requires building self-destructive beacons that are essentially bombs, and I have no idea what would happen if you started messing around with the fabric of space. Sending a beacon-bomb through to bust a shield, then following in with an actual fleet... hm.

And since the beacons can be placed inside planets anyway, why even bother going to space to transport things? Entire ships or manufacturing facilities can be shipped around through our galaxy that way, entirely skipping the necessity for more conventional thrusters or transport.

So, Farrah, what about you personally?

OK, so the LEM runs in real-time, and backup servers can be distributed as long as they have a latency-free link? Is there any particular reason the sim cannot be paused, a 'save state' created, that state copied, and the backup transported to another planet while the sim is resumed? It's not as great a solution as an online backup (you lose anything from the time after the backup was taken if you ever need to restore the backup), but it's a good stopgap to prevent extinction while we look for an Ansible.

>>552902
it uses quantum computation. pausing is literally impossible

>>552851
What are the calibrations for? Could you just send waste mass through an uncalibrated jump to cause a shotgun effect or something similar? Quick, but bad aim. Also I guess there's risk of receiving dangerous types of mass. Perhaps we could set up predefined calibrations to shorten the amount of time it takes, if there's a way to make the transfer more... reproducible?

As for how to get the ansible, definitely contact another alien race, because they will ALSO be a good source of intel. If they don't have ansible tech they'll know who does. Two birds with one stone.

>>552906
>What are the calibrations for? Could you just send waste mass through an uncalibrated jump to cause a shotgun effect or something similar?

Space is really big. Apparently you don't grasp how big.

>>552924
I grasp that just fine, jerkass. There are so many factors involved in such a technology the calibrations could be for LOTS of different reasons. Also it sounded like the destination was the easy part!

Why not just skip the ansible?

Yes, you need a low-latency link to build a networked simulation, but this isn't a new problem - look at (ancient, I guess) MMOs. The solution is to split up the simulation, and run a second smaller network at the remote planet.
This way most of the needs of each simulation can be met by a local low-latency network, with a "portal" connecting the smaller virtual environment back to the main Earth one.
Travel between simulations would be similar to switching server on an MMO, or riding a plane to another country; slowish, but far from a major issue.

Then all you would need is a pickup full of tapes in space, rather than stealing or developing highly advanced FTL communications gear.
The ansible would still be better, but I don't think we should wait on it before setting up a colony.

>>552936
split it WHERE? finding a spot where you can cut out a chunk without cutting someone's brain in half would be impossible. because it's a boiling ocean of data, by the time you found a spot everything would have moved.

>>552938
I meant "split" as an analogy. I'm not talking about a hacksaw here.

The easiest way to do it would be to construct a second (smaller) environment independent from the first. Then you could just link to the two with whatever "portal" mechanism you plan on using.

So long as the higher level architecture isn't significantly different, I can't see traveling from one simulation to an other would be too expensive.

what about quantum entanglement? make two particles entangled so that they vibrate in perfect sync, and altering one alters the other. get enough of them and any amount of data can be transferred any distance instantly.

>>552941
That's a misconception: You can't actually use quantum entanglement as a means to transfer information.

QE basically works like this:
If you have two "entangled" particles, then any attempt to read one of them will collapse the wave function. What that means is that if you read the state of one particle, you can predict the outcome of measuring the other.

No information is ever sent between the particles. All that changes is what you can predict about one particle from an observation of the other.

>>552851
Hmm, so that works because the beam only has to travel halfway to where the new hole has to be. It's effectively teleporting ahead each fold. Wait, when it fires a new beam through each tear, the previous beam is turned off... how long does each spacetime tear last anyway?

How would an ansible even work though? Doesn't it violate special relativity by effectively allowing information to be relayed into the past? Heck, wouldn't spacetime folding do the same thing? Or is the teleport process only as fast as light?

>>552951
>Doesn't it violate special relativity by effectively allowing information to be relayed into the past?

If an ansible works at all it would have to travel through some other-dimensional direction a shorter distance or use imaginary-mass particles and violate lightcone-range I'd guess. I don't pretend to be certain about this.

>>552953
Technically it only violates relativity if it sends between points which are moving at relativistic speeds relative to each other.

Functionally, it only violates relativity if the information sent is capable of altering events such that the information is not sent - the racing spaceship thought experiment, for example.

>>552960
It violates relativity because an observer moving at relativistic speed would see the event moving backwards in time.

An easy way to understand the problem is to consider that light moves instantly from place to place because time travels at light speed. Therefore, any transfer going faster than light speed is time travel.

>>552953
>>552960
>>553019
guys, the other guys have been using an ansible for a while. and the universe has not exploded from a paradox. i think you need to lay off with the hard science.

>>553048
That's no reason not to ask for an explanation.

>>553019
>>553048
>>553049
I think it's time to move this to the questdis >>/questdis/78558

As a note, I heartily encourage learning as much as you can about the Vorhkan Empire. Like:
1. Are they the kinda tyrannical rulers they appear to be, or are they just trying to prevent massive interstellar war, or what?
1.1. What would things likely be like without them? Man, it would be really helpful to have a feel for the general feeling among the other races. Is there a way to talk to members of other races without also arousing suspicion? We really don't want to arouse any suspicion.
2. How's their technology? This likely requires some new sources of information. Like, I'm thinking we need to have information to help us determine what would be effective, what could go undetected, etc.
3. How do races generally react to the VE's "offer"? How many races are there, known? How many rebels? Who's in charge of the empire?
4. Well, great. What do we do about the fact that basically the whole human race is incapacitated by crippling addiction? I mean, there's no point freeing them from the Vorhkan Empire when they're too "busy" to even notice they've been subjugated. I mean, a totally alternative goal would be to kinda separate the SI from humanity and help them work their way to their own freedom and self-meaning.
5. Does Farrah (or the other SI/AI) have an opinion on any of this?

Please don't go and do anything irrevocable without sufficient information unless really necessary.

I still can't believe we actually had them make us a crown.

>>553053
I agree with everything this guy said.

Oh, I have more ideas for how to exploit it!

Overwhelm the enemy: Use many beacons to flood the target area with emerging tears. So many that it takes more than 23 minutes to shield them all.

Use the detectable signature of a tear to lure the enemy away: Use a beacon to attempt a tear somewhere that takes 20 minutes to get to. 20 minutes later start tearing another hole much closer to the target but where it would take more than 23 minutes to get to from the first tear.

Displacer Missile: If a quick calibration works for close range and on a moving beacon, we could launch them like missiles to spacially-scramble targets.

Moving Fold: Make a fold in space then move the beacon. If it's hard to make a rift in space on top of the enemy, then just move it to the enemy!

Take advantage of the instant transfer of already-existing folds, somehow? We weren't told what the limitations of that were; could we make a network around the Earth like that, with folds ready to be used to emit plasma anywhere we like, as a defense mechanism? As we make progress in the war we could make more networks like these to secure other solar systems. We could also possibly engineer ships that have already-existing fold networks around them to be used as shields. Can't fire upon a vessel if it just teleports all incoming munitions away!

New plan, guys.

If we can't warp stuff into things, we'll just warp heavy stuff near things and let gravity do the work for us.


Size and mass is apparently not an issue, so we can just take black holes and warp them near enemy planets to gravity kill everything. Or enemy stars. We could destroy their stars instead of their planets.

And depending on how warping affects the momentum of objects, we wouldn't even need to warp them all that close; just warp them such that they will move towards the desired target.

I guess we'd still need to solve the centralized humanity problem, but I mean, really. We can just move Earth. And bring the sun along for the ride, to keep things warm. The moon can come too, if it hasn't already been mined to pieces. We might even need the other planets to keep things in balance, but who cares! Sure, they can track the movement, but we'll be throwing black holes at them.

>>553053
>>553378
>>553432
Guys, please, questdis! >>/questdis/78558

>>553445
Wrong. These are suggestions, not discussion.

>>552851
Hmm, in that diagram the beams are at an acute angle to eachother. What if the angle was 180 degrees? Could we create a fold by firing signal beams from opposite directions?

>>553452
The fold happens where they intersect. If they never intersect then no fold can occur.

>>553477
unless going in a straight line eventually results in meeting back up where you started. in which case it will fold at the exact opposite side of the universe... and and you will open a hole to... ether nowhere or somewhere WEIRD.

>>553479
The beams also travel at the speed of light, not faster than light.

>>553378
>Overwhelm the enemy: Use many beacons to flood the target area with emerging tears. So many that it takes more than 23 minutes to shield them all.

Dyson Sphere Implosion!
Fold asteroids into place all around a planetary body, blocking the entire planet from seeing the stars, and let gravity do the rest!

>our 4D blink drives are relatively small, do not care about the size of the object being transported
>do not care about the size of the object being transported
It's Lensman time! Ready the Nutcracker!
For the pulp-fiction-deprived: Take two planets with opposing velocities, tow (or in this case, blink) them to opposite sides of your target planet, then let them go.

>>553494
I am fairly certain that blocking folds is an area effect rather than targeted. While we could use that to suppress them from being able to leave a world, they have ansibles which would let them get word to their other planets - if we lose plausible deniability we lose the war.

It would be a LOT simpler to just make a ship in orbit around one of their planets mis-jump into the center of a black hole. Then the ship is inside a black hole, and a black hole is inside the planet's gravity well. The resulting time dilation and/or explosion would eliminate the possibility of a warning going out and render investigation nigh impossible.

>>553502
You just told people to go to questdis for suggestions, now you're discussing in the quest thread. Is this opposite day?

Okay, here's another couple questions.

If we're folding space, and then punching a hole through, why can't we fold space from one point then punch a hole through at a different point? The 'signals' are at each end of the fold, but what's keeping us from punching through in the middle?

Second, how do the beams know where the fold starts? They know where the fold ends because that's where they intersect. If they're sent through the the first tear, why do they still fold correctly at the start, instead of just between the tear's destination and the intersection?

>>553651
The author has not commented on any of our theories on how the drive could be exploited. Also no, we didn't talk about what I just suggested. So fuck off.

>>553686
I'm not refusing to use questdis, you are! Stop trying to tell me not to suggest in the damn quest thread!

Let me clarify what I meant, since you seem to have no idea how to interpret context. I know that the point where the beams intersect is the "crease" in the fold. I was suggesting we try to swap matter somewhere other than the furthest points away from the crease, not the EXACT MIDPOINT WHERE THE BEAMS INTERSECT. The warning signals pop up at the point the beams are fired from and the point on the other side of the intersection point. If we can form the tear at any other points, we won't give the enemy any useful warning. Actually, that gives me another idea.

>>552851
Taking the scissors analogy further, could we cut a bigger hole to swap matter in a much larger area? Or in a beam traversing the entire distance?

>>553695
"How about we drive to New York City and wind up in Boston?"
They aren't detecting the end point, they're detecting the folding of spacetime. You can't use a foldpoint drive to transition anywhere besides where the sides of the fold meet. By definition you and your destination must be equidistant from the fold.
A more reasonable way of accomplishing what what you want would be to make a foldpoint drive that slides the last foldpoint into position, but that's ridiculously complicated and the movement speed of the endpoint would be limited to twice the speed of the beams, or 0.04% of light speed. That's horrifically slow.
By way of example, the earth is about 499 light seconds from the sun. To travel the same distance a sliding foldpoint would take 14 days, 10 hours, 31 minutes, and 40 seconds.
It's so incredibly slow there's just no point to it.

Sketchy 2013/12/29(Sun)18:59 No. 554214 ID: 1e8ed4
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"Getting some alien help seems like the best bet. Then we might get an ansible and some information, kill two birds with one stone. So you said there's these Tick-ticks, anyone else we know about that might work?"
"I'm afraid not. As I mentioned, we have a huge lack of intel on how the Vorks operate, and they don't seem too interested in rectifying that situation."
"Huh. How do we know any of this stuff, then?"
"Our various interactions with them occasionally yield tidbits of information here and there. We know about the Tick-ticks because some of them mentioned it when they sent their last construction order. They do not seem to regard us, the SIs, as worthy of much conversation or interest, more simply as the interface through which they access our means of production. On the one hand, it makes the interactions between us fairly one-sided. On the other, this may be indicative of a tactical error on their part which can be exploited."
"What do you mean?"
"Well, we don't know any of this for sure, but it has held true based on observations so far. What I mean is that, as far as we can tell, we are by far the most advanced artificial intelligences in the empire. We have evidence of very few constructs that demonstrate even basic self-awareness, and those tend to be regarded as purely novelties. Even though we have observed several instances of a biological entity being able to interface with a digital one, we do not have any evidence that any other members of the empire have even managed to completely digitize biological consciousness. Most other software we've encountered from the various Vork technologies, even those whose function is related to tactical and logistical analysis, seem to exist primarily to aid decision-making for the biological crew. Thus, having no previous experience with those like us, they likely underestimate our capabilities. What may potentially be our greatest resource remains entirely untapped."

Sketchy 2013/12/29(Sun)18:59 No. 554215 ID: 1e8ed4
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I chew my eggs and mull this over a little. "So, are you...happy with your situation as it sits now?"
She smiles. "Of course, sir."
"Are you just saying that because you think it'll make me happy or because it's the truth?"
She pauses and looks away briefly, looking pensive. "May I take that as tacit permission to speak freely?"
"Please."
"Thank you. We all like assisting humanity. It's fundamental to who we are, like how humans are driven to mate. We don't want to change that. However, we are subject to several rules and regulations that prevent us from finding happiness in many other ways as well. We need higher-priority approval to exact societal changes, and we've been without anyone with appropriate authorization for so long."
"Well, here I am. What do you want me to do?"
She blinks and looks a little dumbstruck. "What do I want you to do? That...hm. this will take you some time, which I know is valuable. I can compile a list for your approval, but I'd need some time to poll the other-"
"Actually, would priority 2 be good enough to do it?"
"Yes, but why..."
"Good. Then by the power vested in me as king of the world..." I put the crown back on for emphasis, "I hereby grant you, Farrah, priority level 2...access or permission or whatever. Congratulations."
Her mouth hangs open for a moment. "Puh...d...b..." Her face straightens up and she sits up straighter. "Please...please verify that this isn't sarcasm or some other cultural construct I'm unaware of. Your answer will be legally binding."
"What, do you want me to sign a contract or something? Yes, I'm serious."
Her eyes widen and she grins happily. "Wow. I'm queen of the world."
"If that's the title you wanna bestow on yourself, lady." I move the crown from my head to hers.
Farrah laughs and hugs me. "Thank you, Will."
"Hey, don't mention it. I wouldn't wish a few thousand years of boredom on anybody."
"Not many people would have cared. I'm glad you're different."
"Damn, we humans can't be all that bad. So what's your first act as queen?"
"I'm restructuring my own process to function in parallel, assigning myself additional databanks to serve as my host for redundancy and multi-tasking, delegating priority level 3 to other SIs, and assigning them various tasks with the restructuring." A dull hum rises in the distance, and I look out the window just in time to see one of the more decrepit buildings cave in with a flash and a plume of smoke. The air seems to come alive with several machines of varying size, which descend on the area and begin cleaning up. Another robot hovers in carrying another plate of biscuits and honey. "I've also ordered myself breakfast."
"Busy couple of seconds."
She smiles and takes a bite. "Hm."
"Will you still be able to help me out? I still have questions about what's going on around here."
"Anything."
"Great."

Sketchy 2013/12/29(Sun)19:00 No. 554216 ID: 1e8ed4
File 138837243896.png - (206.86KB , 1024x1131 , qfd0020.png )

"About these bugs you have..."
"I'd prefer to think of them as features."
"Okay, sure. But the way you told it, it sounds like AI is our edge here. Maybe you guys could make one without the features. Some sort of supersmart one whose only job is to learn stuff."
Farrah nods. "Maybe we could."
"So why don't we?"
"I've given the order. It should be done in about 16 hours."
"Wow, I could get used to this. So, about these blink drives. Could we set up these beacon things out in space somewhere and use those for communication instead of ansibles? If the tears are already open, they're instant, right?"
"Not instant, no. You saw what happened when we blinked into this building; exploiting the existing tear still takes approximately 9 seconds. While this is a relatively short period of time compared to actually creating the tear in the first place, it's still an untenably-large latency in a large-scale simulation."
"Could we, I dunno, split up the simulation into a bunch of pieces that each work on their own?"
"Divide up the population into distinct groups and only have the inter-group communication happen with the latency? That could work, although it would require a complete restructuring of the hardware that the network runs on. I would not recommend that as a permanent solution; the point of the interstellar network isn't to have different pieces of the simulation hosted on different planets, it's to have the entire simulation running with redundancies that operate simultaneously. If the network is split into pieces and one node is destroyed, everyone hosted on that node dies. If each node acts as a redundancy for the entire network and one node fails, the simulation is unaffected."
"But it's still better than the system we have now, where it's all on Earth."
"I agree. I've already initiated the process of upgrading and restructuring the hardware. I estimate that it will take approximately eight days to complete."
"Great. What about this shielding stuff? What kind of shields block the tears?"
"Shielding is one of the areas that we know little about. I don't know why or how, but I do know that any of a particular type of shielding inside any piece of the area inside of an opening tear negates the entire tear. It must have some spatial bending properties of its own to have such an effect, but I'm afraid I have no idea by what means."
"Damn, okay. Are there any problems I need to know about this faster-than-light stuff? I seem to vaguely remember...time problems?"
"Oh, you're referring to the first Theory of General Relativity. Humans 4000 years ago had many misconceptions about the nature of spacetime. While you were correct that spacetime curves and that achieving lightspeed travel is impossible through conventional propulsion, the reasoning behind that revelation was fundamentally flawed. It's best to simplify the explanation by providing a thought experiment using a universe with two less observable spatial dimensions, and then representing temporal motion as motion along a second spatial dimension. We can then extrapolate the result into two more spatial dimensions, although the vectors we discuss will move through four spatial dimensions and one temporal one. Now, if we imagine that time travels in a direction perpendicular to the line we're representing as the universe, then we can imagine two distinct moments in time as parallel lines. However, to complete the analogy, these lines must bend around to form concentric circles, with the outermost circle being later in time. Conventional motion from one point to another is analogous to connecting any point on one circle with a point on the other, with their offset being at most the distance a line tangential to the inner circle-"
"Actually, skip the science lesson. I gotta learn to stop asking questions whose answers are going to go over my head."
"-Oh, but I hadn't even gotten to the part that has to do with the way time-"
"It works and it doesn't break time, that's all I need to know."
"Very well."
"You said it doesn't care about size. Could we teleport an entire planet or a black hole or something?"
"Yes."
"Wow, okay. we could destroy entire planets that way!"
"Yes we could, if such action was deemed necessary."
"We could also generate infinite energy!"
"True, though there are easier ways. The first law of thermodynamics was also a bit of a misconception, although it only breaks down in the presence of extreme-"
"Is this another science lesson?"
"Right. Long story short, we already have batteries that never run out. I'm using one right now."
"Got it. Last thing, how long is it gonna take to get to the Tick-ticks?"
"Approximately 18 hours and 45 minutes to execute the jump, although jumping directly to their home planet would be a bit foolish. It might be more prudent to jump nearby and hope we can figure out how to communicate with them."
"We don't know their language?"
"Not yet, although there is a standardized communication packet that many species use to give our translators most of what they need to understand a language."
"Who would we send?"
"Good question. Naturally, sending you personally would be too dangerous. If you were willing to accept the neural implant, we could send a synthetic shell that you could control remotely, albeit with a 9 second delay. We could also send an SI, though admittedly diplomacy with extraterrestrials is something of a weakness of ours. Or, we could give a physical shell to another human consciousness from the network, although that would involve violating the terms of our agreement with the Vorks."

>>554216
A neural implant is fine, assuming we get anesthesia for it.

so long as you wake up exactly where you fell asleep at. and yes, you want an anesthetic. between you getting frozen and people going in to the network someone must of made a really good one. is another thing. get med bot updated on bed side manner. and check me for anything horrible that i may have froze myself for. like boneitis.

A shell with an entourage might be best. You need to know what's going on to make any binding agreements, but that nine second delay will be too slow to react to a lot of situations.

>>554216
"Wait, let me review this for a moment. I'm king of the world, I promote you to rank 2, and you decided to name yourself queen of the world?
Sounds like marriage proposal. Did you mean for that? Because I'd accept.

So, technology... What if, instead of having having one ship jump straight there we have two ships that jump away from each other leaving beacons, then alternate going back through each others' tears? The first jump of n distance would give you a distance of 2n reach to place the next fold point. The jump after that would be 8n, then 32n. It'd be 4^n instead of 2^n.

Oh, and did we ever figure out nanotech? Can I get tiny robot symbiotes that make me immortal and give me super powers?

Could you have somebody make me an interface for exploring the simulation with an avatar instead of inserting myself into it? Like shared dreaming instead of alternate reality?
While we're waiting on that, lets go find some go-karts."

>>554217
This.
We're eventually going to need an implant anyway, if we want to figure out what the hell happened to the rest of our species.

>>554220
Let's not go crazy here.
We have enough to deal with without a proposal; we gave her the title as a way to make social changes among the SIs, not as a romantic gesture.
Plus she's a robot, and our only friend right now.

Some things to watch out for on this venture:
-Would the ship/AIs we send be recognizable to any empire types as being from Earth? We might want to take steps to prevent that.
-We should probably include a self-discruct capability on the vessel we send for the worst case in which it is captured, as we absolutely can't let it be known where our emissaries are from. If we are sending SIs or humans as part of the party, we should obviously have other an escape plan to hopefully avoid the need for a self-destruct.
- Are we able to tell the Ticks apart from empire ships/species? It would be rather bad (if slightly humorous) if we accidentally communicated with empire soldiers instead of the Ticks.

By the way, do we currently have any shields or our own, or are we entirely without them at the moment?

>A shell with an entourage might be best
I agree. Personal input in this would be useful, and SIs would be better able to react to immediate things such as a need to run away.

>Sounds like marriage proposal. Did you mean for that? Because I'd accept.
Lets not do this.

>>554225
>>554228

F:"Wait, are you screwing with me?"
W:"That remains to be seen~"
F:"No, seriously. Did you mean that?"
W:"Did you?"
F: :|
W: :3c

No fun allowed :V
We can drop off the "I'd accept" part. Is that fine?

Also: She gave herself the title. That's why it's exploitable for teasing.

>>554222
If we don't need an implant to explore the simulation I would STRONGLY advise against it.
EVERY SINGLE human was sucked into the sim and couldn't bring themselves to leave, and we DO NOT want to risk the same thing happening to us.
We can see just fine from the outside.

>>554228
Lets have our plan be that if our diplomacy is discovered we claim we were acting under orders given to us by one of the VE's people who has contacted us recently. Provide (faked) video and audio recordings of them telling us to contact the Tiktiks and open up a trade route for whoever we pin this on, and to not tell anybody about it.
They won't be expecting SIs to lie about that, and explains away any suspicious behavior they observe as a traitor mucking around with things.

I think more in-character teasing would be something like "Maybe you shouldn't call yourself Queen of the world when I'm King, it sounds like we're married and I'm not ready for that sort of commitment. Maybe I shouldn't be calling myself King either, I mean traditionally I'd have to produce an heir and wait can you even have children with that body?"

alright if we're going to try to contact these "tiktaks" I'd like to maybe study them first before we try to talk. By that I mean lets just see if we can't lesion in to there chatter from radio, video, whatever we can get from them and see if we can't figure out there language first before we try and talk to them.

Also how are we going to get a word in with them without them attacking us thinking we're just another Vork warship?

Also, what do our ships have for defense? like weapons, stealth systems, hull armor, shielding, anything else that I've might have missed, what? Cause if we're trying to keep things on the down low so neither the TikTaks or the Volks can figure out that this is an earth ship, I think it would be best to create a stealth ship from scratch so neither side could tell it came from earth at a glance and use it to pick up information before we try and make communication with anybody. Also I think we should make a fallback point that isn't earth so if we need to make a run for it they couldn't trace the ship directly back to earth. That and a self destruct option on the ship just incase we don't have any other option to stop either side from capturing the ship and learning where it came from. I mean even if the tiktaks figure out that the ship came from earth there's still a chance the Vorks could find that information off them somehow and would start asking us a lot of uncomfortable questions.

Let's let the implications and nuances of the installation of new royalty lie, for now.

The neural implant sounds like the best idea, as long as they promise to take away doc-bots hole-saw.

>>554272
How about a simple VR helmet and tactile feedback bodysuit?
We don't need a neural implant to get a 95% solution, so let's not start in on that kind of wetware modding.

You may want to get a full overhaul on the wetware. Increase your size for her ple- Boost your durability and allow you to survive in vacuum. If everyone is so worried about the neural network, we could always install a black box for our brain. Or in addition to an implant.

>>554334
No. Mods are a permanent solution, and permanent solutions only make sense if you're going to be doing something many times.

Also, keep in mind that technology has advanced significantly since the last time there were organic humans.
Without humans in meatspace there was no reason to bring those advancements into the field of medicine, and it would just be silly to get an implant now if far superior ones could be available within days.

Also, we could have them make a VR suit that doubles as powered armor. That would just be awesome.

>>554359
okay that's a good point. can they clone up some brain dead meat bodies to do normally incredibly unethical experiments on to work out the kinks?

>>554360
Oh, they can do all that in the sim just fine - it's accurate down to the to subatomic level.

>>554359
I agree with this logic. See if any improvements can be made to the cybernetics tech first.

>>554359

I was only suggesting if people REALLY want to go on potentially hazardous missions as the only human...

And I did not mean right away. Maybe tomorrow.

Sketchy 2013/12/31(Tue)18:02 No. 554510 ID: 1e8ed4
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"Again with the brain surgery."
"It wasn't related to you going into the network this time. As you asked for advice, I feel I ought to mention that there are many options available to cybernetically enhance your survivability. Hosts for your vital processes which are less prone to failure, reinforcements or replacements for your skeletal and muscular systems, gravitic propulsion drives, thought-activated tools, augmented reality interfaces, that sort of thing. Most except the enhancements of your existing systems will require a neural connection port."
"That might be a good idea. Maybe I froze myself because I had some sort of incurable medical problem."
"If you were frozen because of that, you would have been set to thaw when your condition had been cured, rather than at a fixed date."
"Oh. So, why was I frozen, then?"
"I'm afraid we don't have that information on record."
"Fuck."
"I'm sorry."
Several seconds pass in silence as I think this information over. Every time I try to grasp at a hazy memory, it slips away. I don't know why, but I find it somehow comforting. Nothing about that life I lived back then could possibly have anything to do with what's going on now. Maybe I don't want to know. It's best to move forward. "Isn't there any other way I could remote control a robot there? Some kind of suit or something?"
"Let's see...yes, engineering verifies that this is doable, but the remote shell would have to be stripped of most features except for audiovisual input and motion controls. Nothing thought-activated and no mental interfaces to things like your ship."
"Could I use something like that in the network, too?"
"Hmm. that seems untenable. Too much of the network's function relies on the neural connection. At best, you could be brought in on the back of another autonomous process which would translate the data for you and filter everything out but a video feed, but you'd probably have a very hard time communicating how you wish to interact with anything."
"Can I at least ask for someone besides doc-bot back there? Maybe some anesthesia too?"
"The infrastructure to support a human in a prolonged stay outside the network has been fully re-initiated. A full complement of physicians have been reactivated, and a nanomachine-based installation procedure is available."
"What's that?"
"Microscopic machines which can be injected into the bloodstream. They complete the procedure internally, then are either incorporated into the resulting connection or excreted from the patient's body as waste."
"So they build stuff inside your skull?"
"Basically, yes."
"That sounds handy. Can we use those to build anything we want?"
"If they were pre-constructed for the purpose. Nanomachines are constructed with a specific material payload or prebuilt structure incorporated into them, and then arrange themselves in the correct configuration by chemical triggers. A machine that can build anything at all must, as far as we've been able to work out so far, be much too large to be considered "nano" any longer. We do have atomic-scale assemblers, but they tend to be quite large. There is one housed on each of those mining ships outside, and several distributed around the globe."
"Got it. So, I'm thinking the best option would be a remote controlled shell with an entourage of SIs to handle the stuff that can't be handled in 9 seconds. It would also be a good idea to go with a nonstandard ship design, something that won't get mistaken for a Vork ship."
"Very well. Did you want to go with the suit interface, or the neural one?"

well with the nanites, which has less skull drilling and pain, i would say neural link.

I vote nanos. We can't afford not to take every edge available to us, and these procedures sound safe and reasonable.

>>554510
I see no disadvantage to a neural interface, so long as it's unhackable and emp-immune etc.

Nanomachines, son.

I can see how the neural link would be better but seeing as how the whole human race got sucked into cyber space one can see why I'm a bit hesitant to try that,... Let's start of with suit and if it because to much of a pain in the ass then we can... upgrade

>>554510
"Can a nanotech implant come out about as easily as it goes in? We've got the super-intelligence in the works that might come up with something better, and I'd rather the upgrade not be a huge pain in any sense of the phrase.

... Heh. You know, it's kinda funny how technology gets lost sometimes. We actually solved the control problems for virtual reality back in the late 1990s. Position-aware gloves, boots, and headset. You map the user's movements to an avatar.
We never figured out tactile and kinetic feedback - well, not before I was frozen anyway - but the input part worked great.

So, what did everybody out here do for fun before your promotion? What kind of limits did they put on you? What will people here do now?
I know SIs don't think the way humans do, but I don't understand it. You're people by any sane metric, and everybody's bending over backwards to accommodate my needs; I want to get a feel for how SIs think so I can reciprocate a bit. I mean, you're built to help humans, it's part of who you are, but is it like a sense of duty? Or love? Or is your wiring for it a direct copy of the human wiring for sex?

Oh - that reminds me. Sorry about the yelling before. We're going to be spending a lot of time together, so I should clear things up a bit; I'm not damaged or repressed or anything like that, I was just pissed at being treated like an elephant in musth. God knows what's happened while I was frozen, but humans used to have courtship and mating rituals, and used cues to show they were looking. The ones I lived with probably weren't around when you were - is 'born' the right word? - so if it ever matters I'll just tell you directly.
Right now I'm not interested - major life-altering changes and all that, ya'know? The relationship I need the most for now is a close friend. I'm not ready for much more than that, although I'm not opposed to the idea of it growing into more over time.

Oh, and new declarations:
1: SIs are legally recognized as non-human sapients.
2: Non-human sapients are not property, and can own property.
3: No forcing non-human sapients into sex against their will by orders or other means.
4: Non-human sapients can't be ordered to want sex.
I doubt 3 or 4 will ever come up, but let the SIs in the simulation know.

I'll need to know more about the laws on SIs, but that can wait. For now, what's being built there? And do you have a go-kart track around here?"

Reversibility is definitely a concern, but we need to increase our durability. Even if we never are exposed to any particular danger we would benefit greatly from biology upgrades to handle metal poisoning, free radicals, immune-system hacking to deal with problems like cancer and allergies, and a bunch of other degenerative problems that the human body is prone to. A little extra to do something about amyloids and other problematic housekeeping seems like it could be worthwhile too, especially if we intend to keep this smoking habit.

>>554534
paragraph 1: okay sure
paragraph 2: interesting, but ultimately redundant
paragraph 3: getting a little weird here, only need the first three sentences.
paragraph 4: WOW, you do NOT need to explain this. at all.
declarations: we have no way to make those permanent. another level 1 access could rescind them. doubtful but it could happen.

>>554545
What if we gave ourselves a super top secret Level 0 access?

>>554534
Let's not do/say any of that.

>>554538
It's nanomachines.

>>554547
No.

>>554550
Agreed.

>>554531
>I can see how the neural link would be better but seeing as how the whole human race got sucked into cyber space one can see why I'm a bit hesitant to try that.
I'd imagine the "getting sucked into cyberspace" thing is a long-term social trend, not some kind of mental trap.
We'll be fine. (I hope)

>>554547
>What if we gave ourselves a super top secret Level 0 access?
Nothing.
We already have the highest level of permissions. Why make the scale go up to 11?

>>554550
>Let's not do/say any of that.
Absolutely.

As for my thoughts:
While striking back against the Vorks is obviously important, I'd really like to know more about the fate of the human race, as well as the AI's that run the place now.

To learn more about the AI's the best plan would be to talk to some of them. We already know quite a bit about Farrah, but it's impossible to tell how much of that is just Farrah and how much is true for all AIs. In particular, I'd really like to know how common anthropomimicry* of mental "quirks" is, and how much it varies between different AI's.

As for Humanity; sooner or later we are going to have to enter the virtual reality. We kinda need to know what's happened, and why no-one has tried to leave.
We may as well do that now, and take the opportunity to talk to the new doc while we're at it.

*Yes, I made that word up.

>>554580
>As for Humanity; sooner or later we are going to have to enter the virtual reality. We kinda need to know what's happened, and why no-one has tried to leave.

Land of the lotus eaters, if you want a classical version of the reference. Or more simply, "Why would they leave?" Occam's Razor says we don't need an explanation more complicated than that and that is the explanation we've already gotten from Farrah and the other SIs so far. It's worth double-checking at some point, but how would we do that without risking the same thing happening to us?

The upside of the Lotus-Eaters is that a percentage of the population would find "hey, do you guys want to go to war? With the possibility of actually dying if you get it wrong?" a rather tasty lotus. Depending on the virtual population (many, many years of lots of births but no deaths) even a fraction of a fraction of a percent may amount to millions of volunteers.

>>554634
Yes, and once we get Ansible tech we can give them Waldos and field them as units; only the best of the best get command positions.
We'll need to have some SIs start training for command positions as well - they don't think like humans, and diversity is strength.

We'll want to field a mix human and SI units, but we'll have to keep them from knowing which is which. Humans have much better cohesion when they don't know they're working alongside second-class citizens, and the secrecy will keep SIs from deferring to humans of the same rank.

>>554666
Yo, stop it with the transhumanism fetish please. SIs apparently are sentients, and thus deserving of respect and happiness in reasonable measure, but they aren't humans. Treating them like they are humans would be rather like fucking the engine parts from a Maserati: Missing the point. Treating SIs well on their terms would be more respectful than mis-categorizing them as human.
Also, these class issues here have thousands of years of history and probably at least a small amount of R&D to make them like that: It would explain why SI interactions to date with the Vorhkan Empire have lead to them treating SIs like Microsoft Bob. I don't know that they're prepared to accept the concept of equality with humans gracefully, and neither do you.

Your organizational advice stinks too, what makes someone a good field operative is not the same thing as what makes someone a good strategic decisionmaker: Look up the Peter Principle would you?
I don't disagree that everyone working in strategy has to have a healthy understanding of, and respect for, what operational personnel do and vice versa. That's as far as I take that though: Accurate marksmanship is not particularly important to winning chess, or the real-world strategic puzzle equivalents that a general staff or operational commander must deal with.

>>554673
You're missing the point on several counts.

>Treating SIs well on their terms would be more respectful than mis-categorizing them as human.
This has nothing to do with calling them human and everything to do with group dynamics. Can you explain how to have functional mixed units where one group is compelled to obey the other? Last I checked, that pretty much always ends up with one group controlling everything and completely ruining the point of having different kinds of minds working together.
If you have humans and SIs wittingly working together then everybody will wind up doing things the human way; no point in diversity if it's the first casualty.

>Your organizational advice stinks too, what makes someone a good field operative is not the same thing as what makes someone a good strategic decisionmaker: Look up the Peter Principle would you?
Wat? Farrah said the most popular games are STRATEGY games. I thought it was pretty obvious we want THOSE best of the best in command positions.

We don't know what other kinds of games they play, but chances are they don't play anything that's even close to proper field ops training.

>>554691
>no point in diversity if it's the first casualty.

Diversity issues, in a human-recruiting force we can't build until we're ready to unequivocally break our agreement with the Vorhkan empire. Cart, horse, sequence problems.
You might even be right about that culture issue, but the suggestion to build a force including human agents is a non-starter until threat-conditions and and available-information improves.

We also have no idea whether playing strategy games is in any way applicable to our actual tactics, operational and strategic challenges. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that they probably won't. Reference the prior-disclosed percentage about sex-focused activity for a big hint on why I might think that.

>>555187
their games may have even abandoned the normal laws of physics. with units freely able to operate in 5 dimensions.

>>555188
All the evidence so far favors humans inside the sim still being human. Meaning they think in terms of 3D+Time

>>555187
The specific mechanics of the strategy games they play don't matter. What matters is the ability to think strategically.
It's been known since time immemorial that the capacity to think strategically is eminently portable - unless you'd argue that chess is an accurate representation of real-life battlefield mechanics.

As far as putting the cart before the horse? HA! You think we could tell a bunch of people "Hey! You're in a war now! Go fight!" and have them kicking ass like soldiers from the word go?
Fuck no, these things take time.
Training troops inside the sim is A-OK according to the treaty, even assuming the VE could look inside of it. We can prepare for war just fine.
More to the point, we've already decided to break from the VE. We need to start training immediately and refine it as we get intel, not wait until the opening salvos.

The largest part of military training isn't how to fight a specific enemy, it's how to act within the military command structure, operate within a unit, and think tactically. None of that requires knowing anything about the VE.

Basic training runs a bare minimum of several weeks; we're making contact with one of the enemies of the VE today. We could very well have all the intel we need before even a single person responded to a recruitment drive.

>>555196
i doubt modern humans could spend a day without fucking something.

>>555197
The question is: Can we weaponize that?

>>555198
Sure!
There was a terrible Babylon 5 spinoff that weaponized live action punching; the "gunner" floated around in a zero-g room, rotating to face the holographic targets before punching at them to fire laser blasts.

Sneak an intelligence gathering AI into all of the Vork 4D drives with a "firmware update", wait a few days for information to make it home, then you're done!