>>391341
Since you're willing to have us destroy his mind while extracting that information I think it's quite clear how much more important information he can provide is than spell ingredients he could acquire.
If you really wish for him to be functional, then do as I suggested but rip off his tattoos instead of an arm.

Again, send the other two away. They don't have the information you want and they can't help you get it.

if you cold prove to him that we are talking to you right now we could see if he would trade the information for being able to talk to us though you. letting him know that if we got in his head he would have a very brief time to explain himself before we decided to just drive him mad for being a smug douchebag might make him more willing to accept talking to us indirectly.

holy shit that sounds like so much fun. do it.

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/11(Sun)19:30 No. 391967 ID: 0b9d09
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Get these two out of here? Sure. We were hoping that the other members of The Pack would encourage Furor to talk, but we seem to have overestimated his regard for his comrades.

“You, half elf. Get these two to seperate holding areas, looks like they’re not going to be any help right now.”
>”Ya’ heard the lady! Get up!”

The paladin at the door opens it for Lynne as she leads Tur and Mary outside. Light floods into the room.

Obviously the information means more to us than the dungeon crawling, but there’s a better chance of him being in working condition if you leave his mind at the right time than if we start snapping off arms. Furor plays mind games. Even if we stick you in his head now and he survives, we won’t be getting all the information he has. That’s why we need him in working condition. That’s what the dungeons are for.

The supplies he’d be gathering are important, but not the focus of the dungeons. Furor’s the closest we have to a direct connection to Warpath’s forces, and we need to keep him around until we’re in the best position to prepare for his attack. The Guild of Mages needs to make sure it is always one step ahead. We’ve found the right dungeons to send him to, and they will be a better form of torture than anything you have in mind. They’re to break him down until he’s willing to work with us, and give us what we want. We don’t expect to get everything here, but we’re hoping to at least start with something. Give him a chance before we show this smug bastard what the Guild can do.

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/11(Sun)19:42 No. 391972 ID: 0b9d09
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“As for you... the proper training you seek is a training that lasts much longer than we have right now. But at this very moment, you are graced by the presence of Those Beyond. If you wish to grant your mind unto them, very well... but know that they are not willing to speak with you. Their voices, within your mind, will drive you mad and tear it asunder, eating away at you in every way you can imagine. You are not ready for them, nor will you ever be.

Their presence in an untrained mind is a terrible thing, Eternity. But if you do not wish to cooperate, I will give you your wish. I will release them into your head, and they will destroy you, elf, as they dig up the information I seek. Maybe someday, should your service in the dungeons we wills send you to impress us enough, we will teach you the secrets of the otherworldly force that stood at the center of our guild so many years ago. But not today. Talk.”

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/11(Sun)19:43 No. 391973 ID: 0b9d09
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>”Do you know what the beauty is of Those Beyond, Fayne? I’ve never heard their voices, but I’ve heard of what they’ve done for you and, more importantly, many great heroes of the past. Those beyond takes the stories of others, and shapes them to their will. While it can seem that they are used by others to achieve their goals, Those Beyond are the ones in control. They are a force free of fate, free of the restrictions of our realm... and while they may not have a story of their own, they compensate by making the stories of others theirs. In that way, I share much with them.

>You have no such liberty. I walk my path, I shape my story, I take what life gives me and I mold it to my will. But you, Miss Gwethana, are a pawn. For all your strength, for all your elegance and intelligence, you only act upon what the guild allows. You are not in control, not in the same way I or they are.

>If they are with you, you will feed them into my mind. You will let them swim around in my head in search for my memories, and you will pray that they tear my brain apart on the way out. They will not, but you will pray that they do.”

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/11(Sun)19:46 No. 391977 ID: 0b9d09
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>”Because if they do not, this is what will happen. You will settle with the information you receive, you will send me off to the dungeons to serve my sentence, and you will, and this is important, you will tell your masters that there will be no attempt to extract more knowledge from me until Warpath’s threat has passed. And when it has, you will teach me how to properly hear Those Beyond’s many tongues.

>And I make this promise to you - if you attempt to interrogate me any further after this conversation is over, or should you fail to train me after this crisis has ended, know your shackles will not hold me. Your dungeons will not contain me. Your chains will not bind me. Because this is my story. And I shape it my way.

>And I will find you. And I will kill you. And I will do it as your daughter watches. This is my deal, Fayne, and it would be wise if you comply.”

This bastard... this bastard... We’ll cast him into dungeons so dark and twisted that he’ll be begging to tell us all he knows just to make it stop... I ... I swear it...!

I... didn’t get where I am today by letting myself... get pushed around!

hahahaha... I like him. I like him a lot. he's correct, you know. about everything. he'll lead a much more fulfilled life than you could ever hope to. his seeming inferiority to you in truth is his superiority to you, and he has all the right in the world to pity you. so he does, and so do I.

do as you wish, I don't care.

Then agree with his demands. Think very carefully. He is very calm even when he's been beaten to a pulp and you are on the verge of pure rage. Any actions you do right now will run your name through the mud and make him the martyr.

It is very easy to deal with something right in your face, but we have no idea what he has planned if we don't give him what he wants. Just promises.

Right now we are on a time line and he is not the biggest problem. Besides, if you do teach him everything, then if he uses it against you, you will be on equal ground. Simple as that.

weakness as strength and strength as weakness. the mind of a sociopath at work. he knows things, and thinks that because he knows them he is above everything. he answers to no one but himself. a good strength in some respects, but once you know about it, it becomes a weakness. you now know that he knows. the dungeons wont break him, he's already broke. running broken glass through a grinder is pointless. but he is also missing a big key to the picture. because he lacks the ability to understand. you are following the rules not because you have to, but because you want to. because the group makes you stronger then if you tried to do everything alone. so what you do is after we get what we need, you attach to him a code worded death spell. he attacks you, you say a single phrase, and his head pops like a grape in a vice.

>>391982
You're an idiot. If this man is so powerful, why is he in chains? Why was a group of three paladins able to take him hostage? Hell, he's bluffing anyway. He said he knew what we had 'done for her', when we have barely assisted the mages at all. He claims to know so much, when he knows so little. He's just a cocky apprentice necromancer, and you're full of shit. I HATE having to deal with your presence. Now I wonder if you're sabotaging shit on purpose!

>>391977
Ask him one question before you send us to him, as per your deal. Ask him just what he thinks we've done for you.

>>391986
is the problem with having infinite ideas, the bad ideas get in too.

>>391977
Remember how I said "Since you're willing to have us destroy his mind"? If we go in there we are going to destroy every single thing we possibly could. Intentionally.

As I said, this man is a sociopath. He will only keep his word when it suits him. You can't make him talk unless you deceive him or make it abundantly clear you will not let him try to fuck around. In either case you must kill him.
Lets be honest, at this point he plans to kill you no matter what happens, then continue experimenting on Eline. However, if he's willing to kill you in front of her then he clearly has no regard for what she thinks of him and thus intends things she would never do willingly.

I would suggest incinerating a leg. Not a foot or a finger or something small, but an entire damn leg. Neither of you know how to heal such serious damage, so it will send the message that even if you are a pawn he is not going to be playing you.

Ask if he would rather tell you what you want to know and die quickly, or keep it to himself and die very slowly. Then carry through with the threat without hesitation.

I'm thinking rats, or one of the botfly variants whose maggots eat living flesh.

>>391986

he's only physically chained, and his inferiority in magical potency might as well not exist if you consider how much wider his perspective on reality is. he may be insane to speak the way he does considering his current situation, but make no mistake- the man is a goddamned genius. I really, really doubt this woman has even a slight chance to be in a situation where she has the advantage against him. so trying to help her would be pointless. so I'm not. well, maybe one advice, because everyone else seems so intent that her cause is the right one.

Fayne, many people who were mere apprentices have carved their names into history, and I believe this one can do so as well. he's clever enough to escape whatever pit you throw him in, and he's cocky because he knows it. if you don't kill him now, you will regret it.

Well the convenient part is. if he isn't bluffing we will almost certainly find out promptly, as that sort of power isn't easy to hide.

You know, I kind of feel like you might just want to agree to not interrogate him anymore, then fulfill his request by simply incinerating him afterwards. I don't think he could weasel or magic his way out of that.

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/12(Mon)10:27 No. 392187 ID: 0b9d09
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>I would suggest incinerating a leg. Not a foot or a finger or something small, but an entire damn leg.
> I kind of feel like you might just want to agree to not interrogate him anymore, then fulfill his request by simply incinerating him afterwards.
> you attach to him a code worded death spell. he attacks you, you say a single phrase, and his head pops like a grape in a vice.
> if you don't kill him now, you will regret it.
> if you don't kill him now, you will regret it.

I didn't get where I am today by letting myself get pushed around.

>"So, Fayne, wha--hnn..."
"I DIDN'T GET WHERE I AM TODAY BY LETTING MYSELF GET PUSHED AROUND!"
>"Now... let's not be hasty, miss..."
Fayne's grip tightens.
>"Damn it... no point if... Fine, fine, you want something? Just... just let me go, and we'll try this again..."

He had his chance... he had his chance for that.
I din't get where I am today... by letting myself...

c:

who's pushing? we feed ideas into your head, you decide if you like them or not.

Madame, may I politely ask you to CALM YOURSELF. What you are doing is BEYOND risky and I am quite ashamed at my other voices for their blood lust.

Perhaps I haven't been clear enough when I said this is a bad idea? Maybe I should clarify. We have seen him various times during our travels with others and when he was with your daughter, she was rather happy. Remember, she ran away on her own free will because of how she felt towards you. Now here you are, choking the equivalent of her teacher for as brief as that is in a dungeon, with the intent to kill in pure hate. How do you think she will react hmmm?

She will likely hate you for it. A lot. Perhaps to the point where the bridge between is not just burned down, but sent to the elemental world of fire to be burned down by the very essence of fire. She will never trust you, never believe you did this for you, and never LOVE you. In time she may decide to pick up the arts herself and out right betray and kill you out of her own hate of you. Just because you can't control your hate.

Calm down, let him go, and resume talks. You scared him enough so he should be willing to talk.

>>392195
she didn't like him. she just wanted independence and she thought he would teach it to her.

And yet she seemed rather happy with the pack and rather scared to go back with her mother. 'Independence' or not, do you want to chance it? What do we get if we kill him? A dead body that may or may not have had plans, no info, and a girl whom if she ever found out would likely hate the Madam even more.

Or perhaps you forgot that we were recently trying to KEEP them together because the young lady wished so? This image will not help mages at all if it gets out and it will not help in future dealings involving you when it gets out. After all, guy may be a murderer, but you are beating him, torturing him and planning to out right kill him when he is bound in a dungeon. That's not exactly something you want on your card when you speak for the Mages.

>>392187
Stay mad
"Talk. Or die."

>>392195
Hm, sounds to me like she needs a romantic love interest to usurp his place in her head.
That almost always does the trick.

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/14(Wed)17:38 No. 392837 ID: 0b9d09
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>Perhaps I haven't been clear enough when I said this is a bad idea? Maybe I should clarify. We have seen him various times during our travels with others and when he was with your daughter, she was rather happy. Remember, she ran away on her own free will because of how she felt towards you. Now here you are, choking the equivalent of her teacher for as brief as that is in a dungeon, with the intent to kill in pure hate. How do you think she will react hmmm?

I didn't... get...

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/14(Wed)17:38 No. 392838 ID: 0b9d09
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>She will likely hate you for it. A lot. Perhaps to the point where the bridge between is not just burned down, but sent to the elemental world of fire to be burned down by the very essence of fire. She will never trust you, never believe you did this for you, and never LOVE you. In time she may decide to pick up the arts herself and out right betray and kill you out of her own hate of you. Just because you can't control your hate.

...

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/14(Wed)17:44 No. 392842 ID: 0b9d09
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“Talk. Or die.”
>”Haaaakk... You’ll pay for this, Fayne. You will come to regret this dearly.”
“Talk or die."
>”...They’re your guild’s eyes, but I’m sure you’ve figured that out by now. Someone in Upper Ution has been collecting them off the corpses of the less fortunate of the spies you send to intrude in the area.”
“You’ve got to do better than that, Furor. Where in elven territory? Who’s taking them?”
>“Who’s collecting your little trinkets? I don’t know. They’re being collected and handed over to Belldornin’s Thanes, who are distributing them along the strip of land where your Outlands stretch into free elven woods and extend to the border of En’Ler.”
“If I recall, the elves refer to Outlands and that area collectively as...”
>”The Revolution’s Sanctuary.”
“Yes. And who are Belldornin’s Thanes? I've never heard of such a group.”
>”Death cult. Live by the teachings of the elven prince Belldornin.”
”Are you a member?”
>“I once was. I joined to better understand the dark arts, but their beliefs were far too... fanatical for me to tolerate.”
”What is their connection to Warpath?”
>”I think I've told you enough, archmage.”

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/14(Wed)17:46 No. 392843 ID: 0b9d09
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>”He’s telling it straight, far as I can tell.”
“Thank you, Fendrel.”

Fendrel is a bodyguard of the Hight Knight. The High Knight says Fendrel can sense lies almost as well as he can. I trust his judgement here.

I think this is all we’ll be getting out of Furor. For now. The dungeons we will send him to are sure to loosen his lips.

Lest you have anything else in mind, I'd say we're done here.

Hmm. Didn't we basically decline him ourselves? Tell him that, at least- that we decided against it. Maybe you can tell him you'll decide later whether or not to teach him how to talk to us on his own. Assuming he lives.

i got nothing.

>>392843
Tell him we said that if we ever enter his mind we will leave a broken mess in its place, and had he not spoken we would have been delighted to extract the information directly.
Point out he can ask the paladin if he thinks you're lying.

Ok, this clears a bit of stuff up. We know the source, we know how. Now we either prevent them from getting the eyes or dealing with the makers. Simple as that.

For what to do now? I am not going to lie; he should be able to contact us, but in a limited way. We may need to see what's going down there and he may be the only means to do so. It will allow limited information gathering and if things go down hill, we can easily inform those who need the info.

We may not like him, but if we do want the dungeon crawl to succeed, someone needs to keep an eye on him.

>>392843
Tell him we said that if we ever enter his mind we will leave a broken mess in its place, and had he not spoken we would have been delighted to extract the information directly.
Point out he can ask the paladin if he thinks you're lying.

so, can we fuck with his mind anyway?

we won't tell anyone. promise.

Sounds like we are done, don't expect that he'll be gaining our favor any time soon. We'll try to let you know if we somehow end up in his mind and he's planning some shenanigans at some point in the future.

Fayne Gwethana 2012/03/17(Sat)23:35 No. 393769 ID: a9ba96
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Fayne pulls her hood back over her face.

"You do not speak with Those Beyond today because they have decided that you will not. If I were to let them into your head now, they would see It rent in two before they left. Maybe someday you will earn their trust."
>"Perhaps. But know that-"
"No, first you know that you will never get that opportunity should you ever drag my daughter into this again, understand?"
>"..."
"Understand?"
>"...Yes, Fayne. Understood."
"Are we done here?"
>"For now."
"Good. Fendrel, get him out of my sight."

Master Harkven 2012/03/17(Sat)23:41 No. 393771 ID: a9ba96
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...Well then. Amazing how anything can turn out to be a valuable learning exercise.

If I were to be guiding a partner along in an interrogation, many courses of action spring to mind. There are countless methods that I could suggest for extracting information.

Until a few moments ago, I would not have considered suggesting to my partner to outright kill the subject of the interrogation. Having witnessed such a nonstandard interrogation tactic... I have to wonder if more information could have been extracted through less potentially lethal routes.

If you may, would you mind explaining the logic behind recommending to Lady Gwethana that she mutilate and murder the subject of her interrogation to me? I can't say I'm completely... Clear on this one.

>>393771
I don't think many of us are experts at interrogation. Also, we're not good at thinking rationally when presented with an emotional trigger like a giant asshole such as him.

So basically, there's no logic to it. Sorry.

we weren't actually going to. but he needed to honestly believe she was going to. a sociopath can't be bargained with or threatened, when fayne grabbed him by the neck she honestly wanted to kill him and he knew it. he knew he would not get out of this without talking. so he did.

>>393771
He is a sociopath. He does not feel guilt or shame, and was not afraid because he knew she would never kill him or do him permanent injury as long as he withheld the information. He made this quite clear, and he is too skilled at reading people for her too be able to bluff.

We worked her into a legitimate murderous rage. Since he could read her easily he knew she would kill him without hesitation, which provoked a real fear of death and forced his hand.

If he hadn't caved under that pressure we would have had her kill him. Unobtainable information may as well not even exist, but knowing its there tempts foolish behavior.

keep in mind we are a large collection of often shifting individuals with different personalities and skills. some of us may have been recommending that she burn his limb off because he needed to believe that she would kill him, and some of us were probably just angry.

we are also as a group fairly skilled at improvising a bad course of action into a good one, for example it is possble that most or all of us were just angry and in favor of watching the smug prick burn, but once we realized that doing that was a bad idea we quickly (from your perspective, from ours we had a few days between her lifting him off the floor and us convincing her to not kill him) decided to go from advocating killing him, to advocating mercy.

I thought it'd be amusing.

it was.

Master Harkven 2012/03/18(Sun)03:18 No. 393793 ID: a9ba96
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Hmm... Yes, with Furor you came to realize that he could not simply be convinced he was in mortal danger to give you what you wanted. He had to legitimately be in mortal danger, and you manipulated Fayne into a state where that was present. Slightly different rationale on a voice to voice basis, as there always will be with an entity such as yourselves, but that's the gist of it it would seem.

The most important term in all of that is "manipulated." Your many tongues speak in new, unfamiliar voices to me, different from the voices I last heard roughly forty years ago. But one thing is the same, and that's your ability to read and manipulate the emotions of others. To bend and twist them to your will though suggestion alone.

We are nearing apolitical debate. Such as skill, the ability to use others emotions against them, is what I believe to be the most important skill to have when dealing in politics.

Remember that.

Master Harkven 2012/03/18(Sun)03:22 No. 393794 ID: a9ba96
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Harkven exits the library and enters a small meeting room.
"Ah, Good King Victor."
>"Archmage Harkven! I'm glad you're here."
"I'm surprised to see you back in the meeting room this early. The next conference session is not for another fifteen minutes."
>"Ehrm... Indeed, but I was informed that there was a surprise... guest at the palace and it was of the utmost importance I met with him before the next session..."

The lost Prince's story is a very well known story at this point. After Hector fell and Victor came to power, King Gerald of Farway announced that as a sign of the renewed peace between Egias and Farway he would be sending his unpopular and recently disinherited eldest som Erick on a journey. He would march through the Outlands, from his home kingdom to Egias as the first part of a great quest. The travels across the harsh dividing territory was meant to symbolize the newly reforged bonds between the two nations.

Master Harkven 2012/03/18(Sun)03:26 No. 393796 ID: a9ba96
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"A guest, you say? And you're here waiting for him?"
>"Actually, Archmage Harkven... our guest is already here..."

Victor motions to the chair facing away from Harkven

According to Gerald, the newly crowned king of Egias had been sent a quest to issue Erick when he arrived. It was a quest that would enlighten Erick to the world around him, and this quest being issued by Victor was meant to showcase a close tie between Egias and Farway; a joint project to create the best possible heir for Farway's future.

Master Harkven 2012/03/18(Sun)03:30 No. 393798 ID: a9ba96
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At least, that's what Gerald said.

>"Victor, good sir, you don't mind if I put my feet on the table, no? It's been so long since I've enjoyed the simpler pleasures of luxury."
>"No, not... not at all. Master Harkven... I want to introduce you to someone. Ehrm, this is Erick Samwell. The Erick Samwell. Of Farway."
>"The one and only, friend!"
>"Yes.... Indeed..."


When Erick disappeared into the Outlands, most people understood what had really happened and shifted their attention to the earliest rumors of the Gryphon's Edict. I'm sure Erick has heard what people say about the whole ordeal, but I don't think he's given up hope entirely yet. He's here now. He's been waiting for this for a year. You see the way he sits. You know what he expects.

And you also know Erick's personality better than I by sheer virtue of having traveled with his personal bodyguard. So I think you'll have a better idea of what would be the most... delicate way to get this out of the way before it can become an issue later.

While you'll be in his hands by the time the next session starts, I think before any of this we need to break it to this "prince" Samwell that his father never expected him to survive the Outlands.

Because the truth is that King Victor never received any quest from King Gerald to give the exiled prince.

ouch. what a dickbag. that's still his son, you know.

fuck you, man. you don't get to lay off something to us just because it's too hard for you to say it to him yourself!

>>393804
This.

he actually already has an idea to that effect.

>>393804
victor is the second king, gerald is samwell's dad. gerald never sent victor a second quest. so victor is kinda fucked.

>>393798
Couldn't we just make up some surprisingly hazardous quest for him to undertake, maybe something that would require years of travel and unlikely circumstances to complete?

Then again, you've probably been saddled with this awkward responsibility of no will of your own. It may be best to just congratulate him, offer him a nice cold wine, and then come clean.

I mean, one would think someone would have sent few dozen assassins in generic-y black bodysuits bearing sharp, overly-poisonous weaponry and bad accents with which to waylay him his journey if he was really that big a pain, so at least he wasn't considered so significant a problem.

Of course, maybe he wasn't considered so competent as to require the effort.

So the Father decides he wanted to get rid of his son and never decided to follow through if he DOES succeed. No offense, but the guy is a bit of a jerk.

Either way, he is looking for a quest. He has been waiting for this thing and went through a lot to get this chance. Saying he gets nothing is not going to help. In fact, it would make things harder in the long term. Demoralized people tend to not preform their best.

However, we can use this. We know the stakes. We know what the biggest problem is, but he does not. If his father is so short term he can't think of a second quest, we can.

How does one where he tries to help his people prepare for a foe of unimaginable proportions? One that requires wit, cunning, knowledge and a unified force to deal with? The kind of foe that goes down in the history books?

He wants a glorious quest? Helping this land prepare for Warpath's coming sounds like a good one. After all, I am sure he would be more receptive to a quest given by the voices instead of none at all.