I'm pretty much stuck in the 90s with 2E being my all time favourite. The PC there to certain level were glass canons and that was quite cool. It was more realistic, less heroic. But the fucked up rules and billions of charts made it kind of bother to play.

2E's strength were in the amount of additional materials. Millions of rulebooks, splatbooks etc. Tons of additional info and a very good staff to write those books.

3/3.5E was pretty streamlined but I disliked the simplicity at some points. The characters were more customizable with feats and skills, but character creation usually drug out into hours and hours due to people weighting options. And yeah what was noticed - it was hellishly breakable. There were also some very weird rules (Challenge levels) I didn't like.

Anything I liked about it? Racial/Class powers were better planned out and had a lot better balance.

My main gripe with that edition was that it was too 'heroic' for my taste. 1st level PCs were pretty powerful due to certain feat/skill combos.

Loss of many setting and splatbooks were really a big problem for me and the suggestion to us grids and figurines combat was quite odd (given that most of the combat we've done in 2E was pen on paper).

I had fun with both editions, but I prefer running 2E games due to the themes I could play it in (dark fantasy, mediaeval settings).

3E's flow was a lot better though with its streamlined rules. And it was excellent for high/heroic fantasy.

>>312674
>3e being heroic

You would probably outright despise 4e for that reason then. First level rogues can have upwards of thirty or forty HP, with the right race/ability/feats combination.

AD&D and 2e were just too dense for me to get into. I started D&D with 3.0 basically, and looking back at 2e seems helplessly mired in mathematics and charts.

That said, I've heard 2e books are useful for modern DMing due to the wealth of random dungeon creation charts and whatnot.

EDITION WARS

Preface: I DM 4e online, and have off and on since launch.

I really like 4e. 3.x got really boring and broken, and to be honest, my biggest complaint about 4e (long combats) was even WORSE in 3.x.

4e also makes the DM's life easier with their new approach to encounter assembling (while making encounters simultaneously more interesting and more balanced), though I wish they had done a better job of detailing trap creation before DMG2.

The 4e skill challenge system sucks. I dropped it like a hot potato and use Obsidian now. I will admit that I haven't looked at their revised and new example skill challenges, so maybe there's something there. But I prefer Obsidian's design philosophy of 'everyone participates, not just the skill monkeys.'

Their DC errata are pig stupid, though. That's one errata I'll never apply to my games. Lowering everything by 5 across the board was a really dumb idea - a 'Hard' DC should not take a roll of a 10 on a d20 for an average trained character to accomplish. Medium, yes. Hard, no.

On the topic of WotC's balance stupidity, I've banned the Weapon Expertise feats in my games. Instead, I'm just giving a flat +1 to attacks at paragon, and +2 at epic if we ever get there. (One of my players took the time to mathematically prove to me the necessity for it, and the failure of balance was pretty clear.)

My characters are at 5th level, and I expect to see them at paragon before the end of this mega-story-arc. I'll be interested in seeing the differences between heroic and paragon play.

I could go on about this for a while, but I'll let others comment. Hopefully we'll get some good discussion. Thanks for bringing up the topic!

>>312674
>>312675

Yeah, 4e is definitely 'heroic' themed compared to the previous editions. The thing I've noticed is that you very rarely get level 20 wizards running cities anymore - pretty much, the only leveled characters are the PCs. They're not necessarily the baddest things out there, but they should stand out a bit even at level 1. (The biggest distinction is actually the healing surges - PCs can generally keep on going well past what would kill normal people. They can heal generally between 200-300% of their HP every day, while the average person might be able to heal 25%.)

I must say, I love 4th edition. It has an extremely heroic feel. You're not a bunch of losers who picked up a couple sticks and rushed into a dungeon. You're genuine heroes. You can kick ass and take names as early as first level. You don't have to wait until levels 4-5 before you can afford to take risks. The game rewards rushing forward, trying new things, and taking on insurmountable odds. It has a very epic feel that previous editions of D&D lacked, because they just couldn't do the same sorts of things within the rules very easily.

In 3.5, for instance, (which I played for years, so I'm saying this from my experiences with it) encounters were very difficult to measure appropriately. If something was enough of a challenge for the wizard, at higher levels, then it would probably wipe the rest of the party. The game's late end balance issues really bothered me. 4E still has some of that, but its not apparent until epic levels. My 4E Fighter, for instance, doesn't deal near as much damage as the Warlock. However, the warlock goes down in 2 or 3 hits, while my Fighter could take hits all day and laugh it off. It is immensely satisfying to be able to kill something by tackling it off of a cliff, and be able to walk away from it.

4E is extremely high fantasy in that regard, though. If you design your character around endurance, he's gonna be friggin' hard to kill. If you design him around straight damage, he can do phenomenal amounts of damage. 4E is very good for that sort of gratification. You can build your character to exactly what role you want him to be, and he can still add something to combat, and be an important player in how the game works. And I really really like that.

>>312675

2E world building books are plain amazing.

Especially one on villain creation, world building and historical data.

>>312678
>4e, basically superheroics

This is simultaneously a strength and a weakness in my perception of 4e.

On one side, it's nice because you can do over the top magicy sort of combat, like you mentioned. Diving from a cliff to take someone out, etc. It makes your party special, heroic, 'epic', whatever. It's a powerful escapism thing.

The downside, for me, is more of a simulationist issue. Why are the PCs the only ones in the world like this? How does trade work when there are creatures out in the world that challenge my level 25 hero? What a coincidence that the PCs, the only five people in the world with class levels, met one another.

Particularly the economy in 4e annoys me. You buy, let's say, a magic sword at 1000 gold. You can sell it at 1/5th that, or 200 gold. How did the guy making them get a thousand for it? Why is it that he can sell it for that much, but you can't? How does magic item creation ever become an industry if it requires some mystical substance that only comes from broken magical items? Wouldn't that just create a spiraling loss of items over time?

>>312680
>How does magic item creation ever become an industry if it requires some mystical substance that only comes from broken magical items?

I will tongue-in-cheek point out that according to the points-of-light 'canon' 4e crunch, the current world's civilization is basically built on the ruins of amazing enlightened civilizations of yore. So there are lots of old and broken items lying around?

But to be honest, core 4e isn't a setting like 3.x was. They have Forgotten Realms and Eberron for that. (Not that I use them, but they exist.)

Also, the PCs aren't necessarily the only heroic characters - that depends on your setting and DM. Just that heroic characters are a lot more rare than they were in 3.x.

Speaking of, any opinions on Pathfinder? I liked it a lot better before final release - I had a Barbarian character all rolled up. Admittedly, it still suffers from the mechanical issues of 3.x ('I roll a d20. My turn's done.') but it's nice to change things up and eliminate the goddamn splatbooks. I wish I could play more, but my DM's hiatused/cancelled the game after 3 sessions.

>>312680
>Why are the PCs the only ones in the world like this? What a coincidence that the PCs, the only five people in the world with class levels, met one another.
They... aren't, if your DM is doing it right. One of the more useful parts of the DMG is the 'class templates,' which let you take anything and give class abilities to it with minimal effort [/tg/ once had a thread about Bear Wizards, it was fun]. Most civilizations should have a good number of members with a class template applied, and if you want a particularly advanced member, you could always give him actual class levels. The reason your characters are so heroic is because they spent all their life getting ready for their current role - any other adventurer who has done the same should also have class levels.

The main reason the templates exist, however, is because it takes a long time to make a 4E character from scratch. And they can be applied multiple times, so an ordained Cleric of Pelor might be a Level 6 Human with the Cleric template and a high Wisdom, while the High Priest of Pelor might be a level 10 Human with the Cleric template 3 times and a higher Wisdom. Then give them appropriate treasure, and you have a holy order stat'd up.

>How does trade work when there are creatures out in the world that challenge my level 25 hero?
The same way it worked in 3.5 even though ridiculously powerful CR 10-18 creatures exist. Willing suspension of disbelief mixed with stronger creatures living amongst other stronger creatures. Most of the stronger monsters are things like dragons, which prey upon a very large area, and demons, which live in an entirely different location than the peons of the world. Also the average human guard is level 4 or 6 or something.

But yes, it pretty much needs to be handwaved, like it is in every other edition of D&D. It can be assumed ridiculously powerful monsters don't roam much, because otherwise everything else would be dead.

I should mention first that I've managed to play something like three games over the last five years. Two more if you count the ones that got one session and then stopped.
Anyway, my take on 4E:
Haven't played it, took a look and saw about half nice streamlining changes and half bizarre and off-putting design choices.
So I'm currently DMing what basically comes down to Magical Tea Party with a veneer of 3.5 thrown over it.

If you're into simulationist gameplay, you shouldn't be playing D&D in the first place.

>>312740
There's a certain amount of simulationism people seem to get used to, and the many rules of GURPS, even if they aren't being used, is intimidating.
In D&D,you can usually tack something onto your character from each new set of rules you stumble across... in GURPS, trying to do this will make your brain leak out your ears.

I figure I'll put my 2-cents into this thread.

The biggest problem I've found with 4e is that a properly scaled or difficult encounter takes forever to finish. I found my players getting extremely bored and spacing out before the fight was half over. This has a lot to do with the large amount of HP that monsters have and also the small amount of damage the characters do in relation to the enemies' HP. I tried the following solution during my last game and it worked out pretty well:
Halve the monsters' HP, but double the amount of damage they do. Combat is quick, dangerous, and rewarding. All my players stayed involved to the very end of the combat. They really seemed to enjoy being able to halve an enemy's HP in a single round, and they actually were worried about the damage they were receiving.

Of course, throwing minion monsters into the equation totally sets this off balance, but then again minions are a pretty dumb concept anyway. My players find it hard to suspend their disbelief during encounters that include them, and I get comments like, "There's a bunch of them, so they're probably minions." I admit that this is blatant meta-gaming, but then again I can see myself asking the same question in my head if I weren't the DM, (hmm the DM sent all these creatures to try and kill us. Does he wants us to fight these like badasses, or run like cowards, I'm not sure...)

By the time Monster Manual 2 came out, WoTC seemed to realize the boring encounters problem and made the new monsters with less HP and more damage potential. I would not apply the same half-hp, double-damage idea to monsters from this book.

(3329) Gnome: [[5 foot step is a move action
(3333) Aittig: [[ if it wasnt, my racial power really sucks.
(3324) Sonya: [[Shift-Shift-Shift!
(3333) Aittig: [[ Shift shift shift~
...
(3329) Gnome: [[Kobolds can do it as a minor
(3324) Sonya: [[*Quotes Gnome out of context, uses it for eternal blackmail*
(3329) Gnome: [[oh god dammit

>>312819
My favorite quote from that was:
(3339) Viljem: [[ What? Balrog's here? Oh god what'd I miss.

So as some of you may have figured out, a group of fa/tg/uys have gotten together online for an experimental 4e run. This as been my first experience with 4e, after years of running 3.5 (about four-five, specifically).

And all I can say is... fuck yes. I love what they did to fighters, and I love how races work now. The campaign has been quite enjoyable so far.

Looking forward to more. :Dc

>>312821
Where/when is this running? I'd love to spectate - would be really nice to see another online 4e game running.

>>312823
Our sessions are intensely long. We've gone through like 3 rooms of a dungeon, and we're about 8 hours into the campaign by now.

But, on the upside, flying walrus.

>>312823
Its running on OpenRPG, and so far we've been playing once a week. Exactly when during the week varies by when people are available.

>>312824
>Intensely long

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh god you'd suffer in my other campaign.

We spent some six hours and maybe rolled a die three times during the entirity of it. We're hardcore RPFags.

>>312826
But, I don't even see why it took us so long to get through three rooms. The first one had spiders. The second one was a hallway. The third one had a walrus.

I love the campaign all the same sofar, we're all joking around alot, all in all, good times are being had.
BUT, man, longsessions are long compared to the content we squeeze out of them.

>>312823
Yeah, I'd be all for speccing too, possibly playing if I can ever be arsed to make a character. Where would I find info on when you all randomly decide to play for the week?

>>312828
Well, I could announce on #RubyQuest when the sessions take place. I'll have to ask my PCs, but I doubt they'd mind a couple spectators. You'll need OpenRPG to spectate, obviously, but other than that I don't see why it'd be a problem.

Anonymous 2009/11/14(Sat)10:55 No. 2850 ID: 4553b2
File 125822495184.png - (173.74KB , 400x600 , Malron.png )

To those interested in spectating the 4E D&D campaign run by Gnome:

The campaign is being run in OpenRPG. So, you will need that. If you aren't playing, don't talk in the OpenRPG chat. Save it for IRC or something.

The server is Blackstar, the game name is The Vault, and the password is toohoo. The room is only going to exist during game times, so don't look for it otherwise.

Game times will be announced in #RubyQuest on irc.rizon.net. The next session is planned for Wednesday, Nov 18. The exact start and end time are unknown yet.

Pic related; the first bad guy we ran across is this gay mind flayer pictured here.

>>312850
Okay, now I HAVE to watch this. Thank you kind sir.

Anonymous 2009/11/16(Mon)21:59 No. 2878 ID: 4553b2
File 125843756463.png - (60.61KB , 600x400 , Map - Lazrea Desert.png )

The logs of the first two sessions here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H44U4FK9

Game beginning soon~

Blackstar server
Room: The Vault
Password: toohoo
(Password is case sensitive)

Lurkers should be quiet in ORPG (helps keep the log file readable), but talkin' it up in IRC is fine.

Expanding on last post;

Campaign IRC room is #TheVault for banter and such.

>>ahh, but there's your problem right there. If you're playing with minmaxing power gamers, or even working under the threat of munchkining than any game will be broken.

Regardless of system or edition, You need to be able to play in an atmosphere of mutual understanding amongst the players.

A the core of rpging is social dynamics, it's important to take care of that first and foremost in order to have a good game.

The biggest complaint I have about 4e compared to 3.5 has to do with the changes to the options for magic outside of combat. Specifically, I still haven't seen enough magical shenanigan rituals for my taste, and the cost of rituals is frustratingly high for what IS out there. In 3.5 there were at least half a dozen ways to build a magic floating castle using the spells in the books. In 4e, it's just sort of handwaved. I guess this is fine for the rest of the world, but it makes it hard for the PCs to build their own strongholds and such within the system as given. I admit I am not fully up to date on what has been released, but do they have a way to build a gypsy wagon that is bigger on the inside yet? There was none last time I checked.

One of the reasons casters could be so ridiculous in combat in 3.5 was that they were originally created with the idea that they would want to have some of those utility spells lying around in addition to their death cannons. In that respect, I like the combat balancing in 4e, and I really appreciate that anyone can learn the out of combat rituals now, but getting the ones I would want often means I couldn't also afford the equipment to keep me going IN combat.

Anonymous 2009/12/16(Wed)20:02 No. 3127 ID: 4553b2
File 126102254874.png - (44.08KB , 600x400 , John the \'Landlord\'.png )

>>312850
Related to this.

Adept!!MvMGOwL2H3 2010/03/27(Sat)21:29 No. 3472 ID: f4963f
File 126975055726.jpg - (255.18KB , 1181x640 , 4e_Party.jpg )

Since this thread has prettymuch been hijacked by the Vault crew anyway:

Party portrait! I think that's everyone. Everyone important, anyway. Certainly nobody missing in this picture.

I notice we get a few lurkers who come on every time we play. I'm curious: What's it like from the outside looking in?

>>313472
That smile is glorious.

>>313472
If Dien was still around he'd be hating you so hard right now. :( (PS Dien come back) You're missing Thief, too, though.

As for my perspective on the games as the lurker (the remaining one, at least), they're always amazing, and are one of the things I really look forward to most each week. You all do great jobs portraying your characters (or even each others' as shown last night), though sometimes some of you kind of lose presence, most notably Flask (admittedly hard with how often he gets separated), but also Elise and Vil.

Often, combat feels like it drags on, though that's probably mostly due to the fact I can't follow it well, lacking full knowledge of the rules as well as character sheets or anything. You guys still manage to generally make it entertaining with some of the crazy shit you try, especially Aittig and Elise, though.

The last thing I want to mention is that either Reka or Gnome should change their text color. Each of you having a unique color is really nice.

While I am still a fan of the earlier editions of D&D I like 4th because it made it really easy for my friends who had never played a table top game before to make characters and jump in playing without me having to guide them through their characters.

Adept!!MvMGOwL2H3 2010/04/23(Fri)22:57 No. 3605 ID: f4963f
File 12720886283.png - (69.58KB , 600x400 , MAP12-1.png )

Alright, SO.

Gnome has given us free reign into deciding what the hell exists in these two question marks on the map.

Let's make him regret it, boys and girls.

Anyone and everyone from /tg/ who wants to pitch in their ideas, feel free to. Let's brainstorm this bitch up.

>>313605
Southwest: Bog/Marsh/Swamp.
North: Ice level. Snowfield, regardless of how little geographical sense it makes. I'm tired of it always being on a mountaintop. Other ideas include another nation that is either warring or politically tense with Hragisk, which can set an interesting backdrop. I suppose the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

So, is there more world out there? How big is this continent comparative to the settled world? It seems pretty small if the party managed to get from The Vault to Ash Island in like... two days? Three? A night at Romeo's and then in Sinclaire? Did they even stay in Sinclaire?

>>313605
South: Forest of the upside-down men. The upside-down men are nude bodies which are planted head-down in the ground. Most are buried about to mid-chest. If you unearth one, he will thank you politely, and then go about re-burying himself. Contrary to the name, many of the upside-down men are not men at all, but women. If you unearth a man and a woman simultaneously, they will awkwardly do their best to ignore each other.

North: Bee Mountains: Great peaks of wax honeycombs tower over the landscape. They are attended by trillions of bees. Nobody knows where the bees find nectar, as there are no flowers here, but it is suspected that it has something to do with rainbows, as the bees tend to all fly into the clouds after a storm.

>>313606
Allegedly, this island's tucked away in some corner of the DorfQuest world, so yeah. There's always the possibility that we'll wind up going other places. For now, it looks like the campaign's restricted to the island, though.

And goodness knows our dhingy isn't good enough to get us anywhere else.

>>313609
Not until you upgrade it to a flying dinghy.

>>313606
>>313608

South: Bayou of the Upended

The Bayou has all your normal swamp-like features, with soggy ground and alligators, but also features a little village called "Upended." Built on a mostly-dry part of the bayou, Upended features weird gravity. Instead of pulling people to the ground, it pushes them away from it. The inhabitants of Upended use it as a defense feature, since animals are too stupid to make use of the network of upside-down footbridges they've built, and more intelligent invaders can be dealt with by sacrificing bridges, or even entire hanging squares and homes, if the need is dire.

Things that fall out of Upended tend to end up landing in the sea thanks to prevailing winds.

The North: The Bee plains.

Take Cruxador's bee idea, change it so that it's inhabited by a group of bee-keepers who have great plains of crops they cultivate and harvest, including massive amounts of flowers for their trained attack bees.

>>313611
Ooh, an antigravity Bayou. I like this.

What I'd like to see is a big, mechanical city. Something that looks like it comes straight from the lovechild of Mechanus and a Steampunk novel, with large, superfluous gears and mechanical constructs. Perhaps warforged can come from here? I dunno if Gnome was intending to use Warforged for the setting. I also dunno if it meshes with the DQ setting. But we'll see!

Absolutely nothing.
No land, no ground, no sky, no sound.
A nonexistent blot on the face of the world... But far in the distance, a single black symbol can be seen.

Gnome!94Ud9yTfxQ 2010/04/25(Sun)22:47 No. 3614 ID: 3441fa
File 127226082835.png - (122.46KB , 600x400 , Upended Bayou.png )

The Western Territory has been set.

"The bayou of Upended is a dangerous place, filled with uneven terrain and predators of all kinds. The fog is thick, the ground is damp, few who enter can find their way out.

However, somewhere in the bayou is the hidden city of Upended. Here, in this one area, gravity works in strange ways. Instead of being pulled down to the earth, creatures are pushed away from it, jettisoned into the sky. The people of Upended have used this to their advantage, with foot bridges and buildings constructed upside down, and strung together with leather and wood. Entire sections can be removed in an emergency, removing intruders from the city violently.

Above the city is a massive net, made of an unknown substance. This net is tough and thick, and catches anything that falls through the city. This net is used for both safety and hunting purposes - a wandering predator who falls up through the city and into the net is killed from afar and hauled in for food, and a citizen who falls in is retrieved. This net is maintained and monitored by the city militia, who are (creatively enough) called the Net Watchers.

Upended defends itself from invasion with the bayou's fog and hostile predators. Upended defends itself from the fog and hostile predators with the city's strange gravity. Many of its residents are people who like their privacy - criminals, anti social people, and inventors."

Woosh. Now for the Northern Territory.

>>313614
Shouldn't that willow be weeping upwards?

>>313615
Not everywhere in Upended has reverse gravity. Otherwise the predators that prowl the place would not work ANYWHERE, instead of just in the city.

>>313605
To the North, much of the land is dominated by the Akaren Caldera, the remains of an ancient, but now extinct, volcano. While the volcano itself no longer lives, the caldera is covered with a twisting network of still flowing lava tubes which close to the surface. Over time, lakes have formed in some areas of the caldera, and some of the underground lava tubes run beneath a few of these, heating these bodies of water into natural hot springs.

Over time, a unique breed of fish began to appear within the heated lakes, one which could endure the unusual temperatures. This feature, combined with the fertile volcanic ash covering much of the caldera's floor, gave way to the development of small farming and fishing towns around these heated lakes. The largest of these is the town of Hammerforge, a fortress-city built partially underground and named after the small clan of dwarves who founded it. The Hammerforge dwarves dug deep into the caldera itself in order to tap into the underground lava tubes to use as a source of fuel for their forges.

The center of the caldera is dominated by a massive stone spire, almost a kilometre in width at it's peak. This is the remains of a smaller extinct volcano which formed within the caldera ages ago, and then was eroded away, leaving only the hardened magma 'throat'. The spire was dubbed "The Dragons' Perch" by the caldera-dwellers, as large winged shapes are occasionally spotted circling the top, and one of the most infamous attempts to scale the spire by a group of adventurers ended apparently in tragedy as only one survivor made it back to the nearest town. He spoke of a massive winged shape diving suddenly down from the peak, and strafing the climbing adventurers with flames from its mouth.
Rumours persist that the summit is the site of some sort of dragon graveyard, or a draconic meeting point.

>>313614
Northern territory? I like the snowfield.

What if we had the big, mechanical clockpunk / steampunk city in the middle of arctic wastes? Say the land is just too inhospitable for organic creatures to /want/ to live there. Also, if warforged are in the campaign, that'd be a good place for 'em.

>>313625
Put the city on spider legs and you have a deal.
No, that's been done.
Hmm.
A burrowing city that hides under the snow and gets everywhere with giant onion-dome drills.

>>313626
>Arctic Warforged Figaro
I can not express how much I love this idea.

>Last Session: DOOMSHIP

Now all we've got to do is make it fly.

>>313753
Or become pirates.

>>313755
Do both. Sky Pirates.

Anonymous 2010/05/21(Fri)22:17 No. 3757 ID: 3441fa
File 127450543339.jpg - (164.15KB , 1024x768 , arcadia.jpg )

>>313756
GOOD Sky Pirates, of course.

>>313757
MOON STONE CANNON---FIRE!!

Reka 2010/05/22(Sat)18:38 No. 3764 ID: b70197
File 12745786893.png - (30.83KB , 246x347 , sonyagain.png )

Adept: You should be posting these in the hijacked thread.
Reka: I probably should.

SO HERE ARE SOME DRAWINGS. I've actually done quite a few of them.

So this is the first real picture I ever did of Sonya, months ago. She is the party tank/striker and defacto leader. Sonya loves adventure and loves hurling herself into adventure, preferably headlong while bleeding.

She and Elise are friends.

Reka 2010/05/22(Sat)18:38 No. 3765 ID: b70197
File 127457872212.png - (95.30KB , 600x400 , Elisesheet.png )

I drew up a sheet for character study. Actually most of my drawings consist of doodles all crammed together on one page like this.

Elise is my character. She focuses mainly on healing and summoning and getting other people to do her work for her despite incredibly poor social skills. She worships Xom and most of the party is afraid of her.

Elise is extremely tall for a Kobold.
Because she's my character, I tend to draw her a lot.

Reka 2010/05/22(Sat)18:39 No. 3766 ID: b70197
File 12745787446.png - (74.38KB , 600x400 , Elspressions.png )

Some expressions.

Elise calls herself the leader of the party, but she 'delegates' all decisions to Sonya anyway. She's mostly laid back, but she does expect people to humor her.

Elise acts perverted and dominating, but sometimes I suspect she doesn't know much more than a normal kobold and is actually faking.

She is at least the most worldly.
Because she's my character, I tend to talk about her a lot.

Reka 2010/05/22(Sat)18:39 No. 3767 ID: b70197
File 127457876968.png - (33.23KB , 350x400 , Elisemorescars.png )

Recently Elise got caught in a small explosion of molten glass. Some of it ended up fusing to her skin and now it's all pretty.
Eggo was not so lucky.

Reka 2010/05/22(Sat)18:39 No. 3768 ID: b70197
File 127457879236.png - (146.25KB , 600x400 , Eggosheet.png )

Another sheet!

Eggo Mantis is a recurring antagonist. He builds robots.
We basically found him and destroyed his base and then felt really bad about it. So we tried to be friends with him. But then we messed that up because it turns out we are horrible friends and Eggo kidnapped some kobolds and ran away. So we lit him on fire.

I didn't actually consult Gnome about how he looks when I drew this because I am dumb.

Reka 2010/05/22(Sat)18:40 No. 3769 ID: b70197
File 127457880422.png - (21.06KB , 265x205 , OhgodEggman.png )

This is Eggman on fire.

Reka 2010/05/22(Sat)18:40 No. 3770 ID: b70197
File 127457882169.png - (53.03KB , 497x687 , Sonya_Build_ElIsE_iMpRoVeD.png )

This is a Sonya pic Adept drew to show off Sonya's build, but it didn't have a face so Elise drew one for her.

Reka 2010/05/22(Sat)18:40 No. 3771 ID: b70197
File 127457885448.png - (18.07KB , 265x265 , ohgod.png )

I don't know what this is.

>>313771
HUUUUUUUUUGE!

Jim Profit!E4uX6s76Zs 2010/06/03(Thu)19:16 No. 3892 ID: 92bbac
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Well, I like fourth edition because it's balanced. That alone makes it supirior, but the fact it's so balanced makes it harder to create homebrew stuff.

The fun of third edition was it was much easier to make your own mechanics. It was built for more customization both in abilities, class alterations, etc. Fourth edition relies on it's own rules, and introducing homebrew powers or class paths just feels awckward and out of touch...


As well, 4th edition tookout any possibility of danger. With healing surges, frontloaded healthpoints, and no save or dies... it makes challenges seem anticlimatic. You either know it's going to be challenging based off the fact it has over 9000 HP or not. It's just so artifical and lifeless...

It hurts the player too, not just the DM throwing monsters. But the player loses the possibility of a swift asskicking to enemies. The DM could easily implement minion rules for monsters by just reducing HP, and most often goblins and their ilk became minions at higher levels anyway. With the heavy customization capabilities of third edition, a DM didn't need leveld monsters or examples... And players had the oppurtunity to be just as cheap with their own save or dies or massive damage.


Now combat is slower. It may not be slower in the amount of beurocracy, but its slower in the sense of you are less likely to come out of a fight in the first round.



I am however glad 4th edition finally got rid of stat penalties for non-humans. Albeit some races seem just plain better for certain classes then others, atleast now it's less visible then it was in 3rd edition, which was less visible then it was in AD&D downward. It took'em 30 years, but D&D finally stopped treating non-humans like niggers...

>>313892
>You either know it's going to be challenging based off the fact it has over 9000 HP or not.
Apparently this was fixed with later Monster Manuals.

just because they don't have a lot of brain power doesn't mean they are have to be roleplayed as dumb hicks. your half-orc could have a high wis and know a lot of stuff but low int meaning he has a hard time putting it to practical use. what's the point of having all those races if they don't have advantages and disadvantages?

They do, it's now just positives telling them what they are good at, and then they don't have negatives, so that as a player, if you want your character to be someone competent in the area that they normally got negatives in, you can do so more easily.

It leaves the player to decide what negatives the character has, making the creation more their own.

>>313898
Ehh I liked the negatives becasue it gave me something to either work against (overcoming the challenge and defying the racially expected to become something more) or to work 'with' (lulz iz got's 7 int, anina- anmul-ani-... der is beastes smarta n; meh bu dey cannot accedently my... erhm... a hol AXE!)

>>313898
I'm glad they got rid of the negatives, myself. I don't think it makes the fluff of, say, a 'bizarre' half-orc wizard or elven melee STR-fighter any less valid. If anything, it just means that the character's playability isn't negatively impacted, which enables the creation of such characters. I don't think I need a mechanical slap on the hand to tell me that elves are not normally barbarians, thanks.

Dbr 2010/06/22(Tue)09:10 No. 3963 ID: 3780da
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What!? Related Content?

So the Monster Manual 3 for 4th Edition came out recently.

Low and behold, a 35 Solo monster has only 500 health.

Considering a major problem that DM's were running into were fights starting to last too long due to huge health gains over a much slower player damage chart, this looks like a good Monster Manual update.

>>313963
The monster has two forms with their own hit point totals.