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File 125605236410.jpg - (44.11KB , 375x500 , dungeons-dragons-the-4th-edition-.jpg )
2673 No. 2673 ID: 1afd58

Ok guys, I know this is trollbait on 4chan, but I'm rather hoping here I can get some reasonable discussion :V

4e. Now that it's been out for months on end, what do people think?

Personally, I found 3.x to be too breakable. Even without the myriad splatbooks, the core rules made certain classes excessively powerful at level, say, ten, and obseleted the other classes after that. Primarily here I am talking about wizards, with clerics catching up slightly after a few more levels.

4e has less of this problem, at the cost of a lot of customizability and sort of a loss of... freedom? Flexibility? To me, having named 'powers' makes me feel like some superhero in a JRPG.

That said, 4e is fun and allows for a lot of tactical thinking, and support classes are fun to play again.

So what does tgchan think? Is some version of D&D better than the others? Is comparing them to one another ultimately useless, or like comparing apples and oranges? Are all D&D editions inferior to FATAL?
22 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
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No. 2829 ID: 4553b2

>>312828
Well, I could announce on #RubyQuest when the sessions take place. I'll have to ask my PCs, but I doubt they'd mind a couple spectators. You'll need OpenRPG to spectate, obviously, but other than that I don't see why it'd be a problem.
>>
No. 2850 ID: 4553b2
File 125822495184.png - (173.74KB , 400x600 , Malron.png )
2850

To those interested in spectating the 4E D&D campaign run by Gnome:

The campaign is being run in OpenRPG. So, you will need that. If you aren't playing, don't talk in the OpenRPG chat. Save it for IRC or something.

The server is Blackstar, the game name is The Vault, and the password is toohoo. The room is only going to exist during game times, so don't look for it otherwise.

Game times will be announced in #RubyQuest on irc.rizon.net. The next session is planned for Wednesday, Nov 18. The exact start and end time are unknown yet.

Pic related; the first bad guy we ran across is this gay mind flayer pictured here.
>>
No. 2853 ID: 5d5878

>>312850
Okay, now I HAVE to watch this. Thank you kind sir.
>>
No. 2878 ID: 4553b2
File 125843756463.png - (60.61KB , 600x400 , Map - Lazrea Desert.png )
2878

The logs of the first two sessions here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H44U4FK9
>>
No. 2882 ID: f4963f

Game beginning soon~

Blackstar server
Room: The Vault
Password: toohoo
(Password is case sensitive)

Lurkers should be quiet in ORPG (helps keep the log file readable), but talkin' it up in IRC is fine.
>>
No. 2887 ID: f4963f

Expanding on last post;

Campaign IRC room is #TheVault for banter and such.
>>
No. 2987 ID: bd6144

>>ahh, but there's your problem right there. If you're playing with minmaxing power gamers, or even working under the threat of munchkining than any game will be broken.

Regardless of system or edition, You need to be able to play in an atmosphere of mutual understanding amongst the players.

A the core of rpging is social dynamics, it's important to take care of that first and foremost in order to have a good game.
>>
No. 3085 ID: 45be60

The biggest complaint I have about 4e compared to 3.5 has to do with the changes to the options for magic outside of combat. Specifically, I still haven't seen enough magical shenanigan rituals for my taste, and the cost of rituals is frustratingly high for what IS out there. In 3.5 there were at least half a dozen ways to build a magic floating castle using the spells in the books. In 4e, it's just sort of handwaved. I guess this is fine for the rest of the world, but it makes it hard for the PCs to build their own strongholds and such within the system as given. I admit I am not fully up to date on what has been released, but do they have a way to build a gypsy wagon that is bigger on the inside yet? There was none last time I checked.

One of the reasons casters could be so ridiculous in combat in 3.5 was that they were originally created with the idea that they would want to have some of those utility spells lying around in addition to their death cannons. In that respect, I like the combat balancing in 4e, and I really appreciate that anyone can learn the out of combat rituals now, but getting the ones I would want often means I couldn't also afford the equipment to keep me going IN combat.
>>
No. 3127 ID: 4553b2
File 126102254874.png - (44.08KB , 600x400 , John the \'Landlord\'.png )
3127

>>312850
Related to this.
>>
No. 3472 ID: f4963f
File 126975055726.jpg - (255.18KB , 1181x640 , 4e_Party.jpg )
3472

Since this thread has prettymuch been hijacked by the Vault crew anyway:

Party portrait! I think that's everyone. Everyone important, anyway. Certainly nobody missing in this picture.

I notice we get a few lurkers who come on every time we play. I'm curious: What's it like from the outside looking in?
>>
No. 3494 ID: 226f89

>>313472
That smile is glorious.
>>
No. 3496 ID: 059120

>>313472
If Dien was still around he'd be hating you so hard right now. :( (PS Dien come back) You're missing Thief, too, though.

As for my perspective on the games as the lurker (the remaining one, at least), they're always amazing, and are one of the things I really look forward to most each week. You all do great jobs portraying your characters (or even each others' as shown last night), though sometimes some of you kind of lose presence, most notably Flask (admittedly hard with how often he gets separated), but also Elise and Vil.

Often, combat feels like it drags on, though that's probably mostly due to the fact I can't follow it well, lacking full knowledge of the rules as well as character sheets or anything. You guys still manage to generally make it entertaining with some of the crazy shit you try, especially Aittig and Elise, though.

The last thing I want to mention is that either Reka or Gnome should change their text color. Each of you having a unique color is really nice.
>>
No. 3604 ID: 458061

While I am still a fan of the earlier editions of D&D I like 4th because it made it really easy for my friends who had never played a table top game before to make characters and jump in playing without me having to guide them through their characters.
>>
No. 3605 ID: f4963f
File 12720886283.png - (69.58KB , 600x400 , MAP12-1.png )
3605

Alright, SO.

Gnome has given us free reign into deciding what the hell exists in these two question marks on the map.

Let's make him regret it, boys and girls.

Anyone and everyone from /tg/ who wants to pitch in their ideas, feel free to. Let's brainstorm this bitch up.
>>
No. 3606 ID: 059120

>>313605
Southwest: Bog/Marsh/Swamp.
North: Ice level. Snowfield, regardless of how little geographical sense it makes. I'm tired of it always being on a mountaintop. Other ideas include another nation that is either warring or politically tense with Hragisk, which can set an interesting backdrop. I suppose the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

So, is there more world out there? How big is this continent comparative to the settled world? It seems pretty small if the party managed to get from The Vault to Ash Island in like... two days? Three? A night at Romeo's and then in Sinclaire? Did they even stay in Sinclaire?
>>
No. 3608 ID: f95872

>>313605
South: Forest of the upside-down men. The upside-down men are nude bodies which are planted head-down in the ground. Most are buried about to mid-chest. If you unearth one, he will thank you politely, and then go about re-burying himself. Contrary to the name, many of the upside-down men are not men at all, but women. If you unearth a man and a woman simultaneously, they will awkwardly do their best to ignore each other.

North: Bee Mountains: Great peaks of wax honeycombs tower over the landscape. They are attended by trillions of bees. Nobody knows where the bees find nectar, as there are no flowers here, but it is suspected that it has something to do with rainbows, as the bees tend to all fly into the clouds after a storm.
>>
No. 3609 ID: f4963f

>>313606
Allegedly, this island's tucked away in some corner of the DorfQuest world, so yeah. There's always the possibility that we'll wind up going other places. For now, it looks like the campaign's restricted to the island, though.

And goodness knows our dhingy isn't good enough to get us anywhere else.
>>
No. 3610 ID: 3441fa

>>313609
Not until you upgrade it to a flying dinghy.
>>
No. 3611 ID: 732129

>>313606
>>313608

South: Bayou of the Upended

The Bayou has all your normal swamp-like features, with soggy ground and alligators, but also features a little village called "Upended." Built on a mostly-dry part of the bayou, Upended features weird gravity. Instead of pulling people to the ground, it pushes them away from it. The inhabitants of Upended use it as a defense feature, since animals are too stupid to make use of the network of upside-down footbridges they've built, and more intelligent invaders can be dealt with by sacrificing bridges, or even entire hanging squares and homes, if the need is dire.

Things that fall out of Upended tend to end up landing in the sea thanks to prevailing winds.

The North: The Bee plains.

Take Cruxador's bee idea, change it so that it's inhabited by a group of bee-keepers who have great plains of crops they cultivate and harvest, including massive amounts of flowers for their trained attack bees.
>>
No. 3612 ID: f4963f

>>313611
Ooh, an antigravity Bayou. I like this.

What I'd like to see is a big, mechanical city. Something that looks like it comes straight from the lovechild of Mechanus and a Steampunk novel, with large, superfluous gears and mechanical constructs. Perhaps warforged can come from here? I dunno if Gnome was intending to use Warforged for the setting. I also dunno if it meshes with the DQ setting. But we'll see!
>>
No. 3613 ID: 43d730

Absolutely nothing.
No land, no ground, no sky, no sound.
A nonexistent blot on the face of the world... But far in the distance, a single black symbol can be seen.
>>
No. 3614 ID: 3441fa
File 127226082835.png - (122.46KB , 600x400 , Upended Bayou.png )
3614

The Western Territory has been set.

"The bayou of Upended is a dangerous place, filled with uneven terrain and predators of all kinds. The fog is thick, the ground is damp, few who enter can find their way out.

However, somewhere in the bayou is the hidden city of Upended. Here, in this one area, gravity works in strange ways. Instead of being pulled down to the earth, creatures are pushed away from it, jettisoned into the sky. The people of Upended have used this to their advantage, with foot bridges and buildings constructed upside down, and strung together with leather and wood. Entire sections can be removed in an emergency, removing intruders from the city violently.

Above the city is a massive net, made of an unknown substance. This net is tough and thick, and catches anything that falls through the city. This net is used for both safety and hunting purposes - a wandering predator who falls up through the city and into the net is killed from afar and hauled in for food, and a citizen who falls in is retrieved. This net is maintained and monitored by the city militia, who are (creatively enough) called the Net Watchers.

Upended defends itself from invasion with the bayou's fog and hostile predators. Upended defends itself from the fog and hostile predators with the city's strange gravity. Many of its residents are people who like their privacy - criminals, anti social people, and inventors."

Woosh. Now for the Northern Territory.
>>
No. 3615 ID: f95872

>>313614
Shouldn't that willow be weeping upwards?
>>
No. 3621 ID: 3441fa

>>313615
Not everywhere in Upended has reverse gravity. Otherwise the predators that prowl the place would not work ANYWHERE, instead of just in the city.
>>
No. 3624 ID: 334ce9

>>313605
To the North, much of the land is dominated by the Akaren Caldera, the remains of an ancient, but now extinct, volcano. While the volcano itself no longer lives, the caldera is covered with a twisting network of still flowing lava tubes which close to the surface. Over time, lakes have formed in some areas of the caldera, and some of the underground lava tubes run beneath a few of these, heating these bodies of water into natural hot springs.

Over time, a unique breed of fish began to appear within the heated lakes, one which could endure the unusual temperatures. This feature, combined with the fertile volcanic ash covering much of the caldera's floor, gave way to the development of small farming and fishing towns around these heated lakes. The largest of these is the town of Hammerforge, a fortress-city built partially underground and named after the small clan of dwarves who founded it. The Hammerforge dwarves dug deep into the caldera itself in order to tap into the underground lava tubes to use as a source of fuel for their forges.

The center of the caldera is dominated by a massive stone spire, almost a kilometre in width at it's peak. This is the remains of a smaller extinct volcano which formed within the caldera ages ago, and then was eroded away, leaving only the hardened magma 'throat'. The spire was dubbed "The Dragons' Perch" by the caldera-dwellers, as large winged shapes are occasionally spotted circling the top, and one of the most infamous attempts to scale the spire by a group of adventurers ended apparently in tragedy as only one survivor made it back to the nearest town. He spoke of a massive winged shape diving suddenly down from the peak, and strafing the climbing adventurers with flames from its mouth.
Rumours persist that the summit is the site of some sort of dragon graveyard, or a draconic meeting point.
>>
No. 3625 ID: f4963f

>>313614
Northern territory? I like the snowfield.

What if we had the big, mechanical clockpunk / steampunk city in the middle of arctic wastes? Say the land is just too inhospitable for organic creatures to /want/ to live there. Also, if warforged are in the campaign, that'd be a good place for 'em.
>>
No. 3626 ID: 43d730

>>313625
Put the city on spider legs and you have a deal.
No, that's been done.
Hmm.
A burrowing city that hides under the snow and gets everywhere with giant onion-dome drills.
>>
No. 3630 ID: 059120

>>313626
>Arctic Warforged Figaro
I can not express how much I love this idea.
>>
No. 3753 ID: f4963f

>Last Session: DOOMSHIP

Now all we've got to do is make it fly.
>>
No. 3755 ID: 3441fa

>>313753
Or become pirates.
>>
No. 3756 ID: 620bfb

>>313755
Do both. Sky Pirates.
>>
No. 3757 ID: 3441fa
File 127450543339.jpg - (164.15KB , 1024x768 , arcadia.jpg )
3757

>>313756
GOOD Sky Pirates, of course.
>>
No. 3760 ID: 1ac39d

>>313757
MOON STONE CANNON---FIRE!!
>>
No. 3764 ID: b70197
File 12745786893.png - (30.83KB , 246x347 , sonyagain.png )
3764

Adept: You should be posting these in the hijacked thread.
Reka: I probably should.

SO HERE ARE SOME DRAWINGS. I've actually done quite a few of them.

So this is the first real picture I ever did of Sonya, months ago. She is the party tank/striker and defacto leader. Sonya loves adventure and loves hurling herself into adventure, preferably headlong while bleeding.

She and Elise are friends.
>>
No. 3765 ID: b70197
File 127457872212.png - (95.30KB , 600x400 , Elisesheet.png )
3765

I drew up a sheet for character study. Actually most of my drawings consist of doodles all crammed together on one page like this.

Elise is my character. She focuses mainly on healing and summoning and getting other people to do her work for her despite incredibly poor social skills. She worships Xom and most of the party is afraid of her.

Elise is extremely tall for a Kobold.
Because she's my character, I tend to draw her a lot.
>>
No. 3766 ID: b70197
File 12745787446.png - (74.38KB , 600x400 , Elspressions.png )
3766

Some expressions.

Elise calls herself the leader of the party, but she 'delegates' all decisions to Sonya anyway. She's mostly laid back, but she does expect people to humor her.

Elise acts perverted and dominating, but sometimes I suspect she doesn't know much more than a normal kobold and is actually faking.

She is at least the most worldly.
Because she's my character, I tend to talk about her a lot.
>>
No. 3767 ID: b70197
File 127457876968.png - (33.23KB , 350x400 , Elisemorescars.png )
3767

Recently Elise got caught in a small explosion of molten glass. Some of it ended up fusing to her skin and now it's all pretty.
Eggo was not so lucky.
>>
No. 3768 ID: b70197
File 127457879236.png - (146.25KB , 600x400 , Eggosheet.png )
3768

Another sheet!

Eggo Mantis is a recurring antagonist. He builds robots.
We basically found him and destroyed his base and then felt really bad about it. So we tried to be friends with him. But then we messed that up because it turns out we are horrible friends and Eggo kidnapped some kobolds and ran away. So we lit him on fire.

I didn't actually consult Gnome about how he looks when I drew this because I am dumb.
>>
No. 3769 ID: b70197
File 127457880422.png - (21.06KB , 265x205 , OhgodEggman.png )
3769

This is Eggman on fire.
>>
No. 3770 ID: b70197
File 127457882169.png - (53.03KB , 497x687 , Sonya_Build_ElIsE_iMpRoVeD.png )
3770

This is a Sonya pic Adept drew to show off Sonya's build, but it didn't have a face so Elise drew one for her.
>>
No. 3771 ID: b70197
File 127457885448.png - (18.07KB , 265x265 , ohgod.png )
3771

I don't know what this is.
>>
No. 3774 ID: 3afd1f

>>313771
HUUUUUUUUUGE!
>>
No. 3892 ID: 92bbac
File 127561778930.jpg - (20.13KB , 300x258 , JimSmoke15.jpg )
3892

Well, I like fourth edition because it's balanced. That alone makes it supirior, but the fact it's so balanced makes it harder to create homebrew stuff.

The fun of third edition was it was much easier to make your own mechanics. It was built for more customization both in abilities, class alterations, etc. Fourth edition relies on it's own rules, and introducing homebrew powers or class paths just feels awckward and out of touch...


As well, 4th edition tookout any possibility of danger. With healing surges, frontloaded healthpoints, and no save or dies... it makes challenges seem anticlimatic. You either know it's going to be challenging based off the fact it has over 9000 HP or not. It's just so artifical and lifeless...

It hurts the player too, not just the DM throwing monsters. But the player loses the possibility of a swift asskicking to enemies. The DM could easily implement minion rules for monsters by just reducing HP, and most often goblins and their ilk became minions at higher levels anyway. With the heavy customization capabilities of third edition, a DM didn't need leveld monsters or examples... And players had the oppurtunity to be just as cheap with their own save or dies or massive damage.


Now combat is slower. It may not be slower in the amount of beurocracy, but its slower in the sense of you are less likely to come out of a fight in the first round.



I am however glad 4th edition finally got rid of stat penalties for non-humans. Albeit some races seem just plain better for certain classes then others, atleast now it's less visible then it was in 3rd edition, which was less visible then it was in AD&D downward. It took'em 30 years, but D&D finally stopped treating non-humans like niggers...
>>
No. 3896 ID: f95872

>>313892
>You either know it's going to be challenging based off the fact it has over 9000 HP or not.
Apparently this was fixed with later Monster Manuals.
>>
No. 3897 ID: 1ac39d

just because they don't have a lot of brain power doesn't mean they are have to be roleplayed as dumb hicks. your half-orc could have a high wis and know a lot of stuff but low int meaning he has a hard time putting it to practical use. what's the point of having all those races if they don't have advantages and disadvantages?
>>
No. 3898 ID: 3780da

They do, it's now just positives telling them what they are good at, and then they don't have negatives, so that as a player, if you want your character to be someone competent in the area that they normally got negatives in, you can do so more easily.

It leaves the player to decide what negatives the character has, making the creation more their own.
>>
No. 3900 ID: 2a421d

>>313898
Ehh I liked the negatives becasue it gave me something to either work against (overcoming the challenge and defying the racially expected to become something more) or to work 'with' (lulz iz got's 7 int, anina- anmul-ani-... der is beastes smarta n; meh bu dey cannot accedently my... erhm... a hol AXE!)
>>
No. 3931 ID: f199e6

>>313898
I'm glad they got rid of the negatives, myself. I don't think it makes the fluff of, say, a 'bizarre' half-orc wizard or elven melee STR-fighter any less valid. If anything, it just means that the character's playability isn't negatively impacted, which enables the creation of such characters. I don't think I need a mechanical slap on the hand to tell me that elves are not normally barbarians, thanks.
>>
No. 3963 ID: 3780da
File 127722301557.jpg - (60.34KB , 500x500 , 1277221713342.jpg )
3963

What!? Related Content?

So the Monster Manual 3 for 4th Edition came out recently.

Low and behold, a 35 Solo monster has only 500 health.

Considering a major problem that DM's were running into were fights starting to last too long due to huge health gains over a much slower player damage chart, this looks like a good Monster Manual update.
>>
No. 3989 ID: 9235fe

>>313963
The monster has two forms with their own hit point totals.
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