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77683 No. 77683 ID: d77784

A new discussion thread for all TWO of my quests... hopefully. I think I fixed some of the mechanics issues in Stars. Oh well, we'll see. Anyway, this will be the new discussion place for both Beyond the Stars and Breaking Reality.

And to start us off, some mechanics changes for Beyond the Stars! Or rather, a complete semi-walkthrough of the basic mechanics. We'll be using Grey as an example, since he's, well, the main character.

Grey
Strength-2/Finesse-2/Will-4/Personality-4
Powers:
Mapping-A semi-passive ability. Your mind will always "map" an area out as you explore, enabling you to basically keep a mental image of the area. In short, you don't get lost if you've been there before. You may focus your attention on this ability to pinpoint the locations of specific people, enemies or objects, although it goes without saying that you can't do much of anything else while focused. This ability relies on

Empathy(Basic)- This is the most basic and least taxing of the ability called "Empathy". You can touch an object or person to get a vague feeling from them, usually whatever is most strongly associated with the object/person touched. Pushing this ability is possible, allowing you to pull up pictures conversations or even an entire memory, but doing this too often leads to insanity and death. This ability relies on Personality.

There. The basics. All you need to know about Grey. All nice and bundled up in simple stats. Makes it easier on me as well. Anyway, for the most part, the base stats are self-explanatory. The follow, roughly, the same parameter and have the same uses as the ones from BR. Unlike BR, however, is that you can't increase or decrease these through experience. Instead, you'll be given "down time" between missions, and you can, if you choose, spend that time working at increasing an ability. This only works up to a certain point, 5 for every stat, before you have to use alternative methods to increase things. Namely, equipment, implants and psychic powers. Equipment is easy, you have it on, you get the bonus. These can be applied to any stat, which is specific to that piece of equipment. Implants are mechanical in nature, replacing body parts and the like with synthetic versions. These will ONLY have an effect on the two physical stats, Strength and Finesse. Depending on what is replaced, and with what, and the quality of the synthetic part, different bonuses and penalties are incurred.

Now, the bit the focuses on Grey. As Grey increases his range of psychic powers(that he can use reliably with killing himself), he gains a bonus/penalty one of the mental stats. To give an example, Mapping is a very impersonal power, you are basically noting a person is there and moving on. Trying anything more than that, and you're just asking to have your brain overloaded with information. Empathy, as a power, reduces Personality, the "emotional" stat(sorta) and increases Will, the more controlled stat. Those same stats will reflect how the character acts towards new information, so the higher the personality, the more emotional Grey will be towards situations, the more Will, the more logical he'll be.

More to follow on the Psychic Branches, and any other questions that might be brought up.
185 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>>
No. 85423 ID: 8b533b

>Chris's current theme, remains 'experiment 23'
Chris' theme is hard to place, considering how little we know of her personal backstory, or even her injury. (Aside from the vague theory I have about how breakers from different cultures 'earn' their powers, and why that might have made the Muramasa siblings easier to induce breaking in).

I'd really argue against the idea she hasn't grown, though. She's not very expressive about it, but she's more than she once was. There are hints of it her dialog, and in the few scenes we've played as her. There are little things she exults in and enjoys, a willingness to be creative, even to look for ways to follow the spirit if not the letter of the order, if she thinks it right. She didn't do that, before. Subject 23 was someone who followed the loyalty switch in her head without question. Now Chris, if she found herself switched back? She's someone who I think would struggle with that.

Granted, she hides or protects herself with an ideal. She's hyper-focused on the present, cutting ties with the past. But the fact we haven't turned her back into the person she started out as isn't a failure, either. She still has growing to do, but I'm not sure getting Makoto back is even the end goal, here.

>Now, I presume whichever one is picked will become his main form
...I was wondering that, but kind of hoping not? Especially since I seem to be the only one who's voted so far and I answered solely out of boring in the moment practicality, not long term build stuff.
>>
No. 85428 ID: 1be917

>Now, I presume whichever one is picked will become his main form
No. Not really. His original form, yes, but not main. He's more of a "use what works best" kinda person. Or rather, his set up is. I'll give you stat info as it becomes pertinent(aka: I'm still working out the exact details)

For now, you can have this little tidbit:
??? Form: STR=15, all others stat's remain unchanged.
-Undeath: This form can only be killed using specific methods. The most common are as follows: Fire, Complete dismemberment, removal of the vital "heart" that allows the form to continue. Others methods exist, but are more difficult to accomplish.
>>
No. 85429 ID: cbbe9c

...This is gonna end with me doing frantic re-works of my form-type breakers, isn't it.
And now that I think on it, she DID say that we were the 'undying' so probably could have seen this coming.
Also-Break Sight does NOT appear to be a common pick at all. I wonder why that is?
>>
No. 85430 ID: cbbe9c

...This guy's the flaming man, isn't he.
It's not about fire. It's about watching those she cares about die and being unable to help them.

Also, I bet we just missed out on having a Vampire Breaker. Oy.
>>
No. 85431 ID: 8b533b

>Also-Break Sight does NOT appear to be a common pick at all. I wonder why that is?
Because it doesn't have the direct applications some of the other powers do, I suppose.

It allows you to identify breakers (sometimes), allows you to not kill people if you're careful (and not many people seem to care about this), and maybe allows you to make guesses about people's abilities when they spend BP. Useful to someone who wants to be careful or think about things, less useful if you're going be indiscriminate or direct.
>>
No. 85437 ID: 8b533b

...oh boy, I just realized this arc means there's a good chance we finally see Liz get to do something terrifying and awesome to behold with fear itself.
>>
No. 85525 ID: 1be917

Revenant
Stats: Str-5/Finesse-5/Will-5
Spirit: 6
BP: 50
Manifestation: Form Type
Draugr: An undead of Norse origin. Numerous stories grant them all manner of strange powers, but in this case, it simply makes Revenant incredibly strong and highly resistant to death. Grants: Str-15, Undeath trait, Regeneration Trait
Wraith: Ghostly undead known to terrorize humans, draining them of life and bringing various other calamities. While in this form, Revenant's attacks are all based on Will. Grants: Will-15, Incorporeal Trait, Undead Trait
Spirit Abilities:
Death Avoidance
Manifest
Warped Minds
Warped Reality
Unbroken Will
Spreading Undeath: Revenant's unique power. It allows him to produce lesser forms of whatever undead he is capable of turning into, whether by directly "infecting" those he kills, or by "calling" them into existence through BP. Either way, these lesser undead follow his directions to the best of their mindless ability. Current Options: Zombies, Ghosts
Active Break
>>
No. 85527 ID: 8b533b

Ooh, warped reality. Haven't really gotten a chance to see that power in action. (Michelle didn't get a chance for the bit we got to play as her, and I'm not sure I ever caught it working for Raphael on screen).

A wraith, huh? I wonder how that's different from ghost-girl's form, or if there would be weird ways their abilities could interact. (What happens if you try to spread undeath to someone who already is?). We never really explored either of the school-kid's stuff. (And unless Marc swung something in advance, they're both hyper-delinquent runaways by now).
>>
No. 85528 ID: 54d118

Hrrrm... Looks like Form types provide a flat bonus to the stat of their association, as well as a few traits. Looking forward to finally getting to find out how form types tick, stat-wise!
>>
No. 85541 ID: 8b533b

>Looks like Form types provide a flat bonus to the stat of their association
I'm not sure that, mechanically, all the forms act like Rev's, here. Raphael's forms, for example, looked like they were fueled by his base stats (or else his upgrading those stats regularly doesn't make much sense).

It would make a lot of sense for many forms to include some kind of stat bonus (stronger, faster... will-i-er?) but what's notable here is that Rev's forms don't add on to a stat, they replace them with a fixed preset. (Kind of unyielding and inflexible, unchanging. Fitting for the undead). Meaning it actually distinctiveness boosting bases stats.

>if there would be weird ways their abilities could interact
Also wondering now if his power would interact weirdly with Linda when using Revenge of the Fallen. Or Jean, with the whole Guy thing. ...or heck, even Elizabeth, since reality says she's supposed to be dead (and Michelle, and probably half the grunts at the base who got murdered in Marc's aborted timeline team-kill rampage).

With all this death cheating around, there's all kinds of ways someone with death-powers could complicate matters.
>>
No. 85590 ID: 1be917

>Elizabeth, since reality says she's supposed to be dead
Technically not true. It said she was supposed to be dead. Now only a certain group of observers say she's supposed to be dead. Reality was convinced she'd never died.

Also, I railroaded a bit just to get the story going, but I think from here on out it should be easier for me to present you with more open ended problems and way to travel. I apologize if that seems a bit overbearing, but I can only do what I can do.

Another also, about the other thread. If you want, it can be archived instead of brought back, I was going to have it go into this(although not by introducing a new character), with maybe a little Linda talk in between, but I've already figured out what I'd prefer to do with the story right now. Unless anyone would prefer to do all that. Then bring it back I guess.

Another another also, I forgot to mention how much each of his forms cost for BP. It's 5 a pop, just to inform you, and he's currently at full capacity, since he stayed all zombied up.

Think that's it for now. Also, shout out to Z-Man. One of your form types takes center-stage this time.
>>
No. 85611 ID: 8b533b

>Technically not true.
...reality disagreeing with observers is kind of an interesting thing to consider. To me, that raises the question of how much they're really an intrinsic part of the system, versus how much they're self-styled protectors making up their own rules as they go. Less angels, more ascended vigilante gang.

>railroaded a bit just to get the story going
No! The precog manipulated our stalwart hero?! Indignation and horror.

>the old thread
I don't really think we need to cram another Linda-talk in there. Any talk that needs to happen can always take place after Rev's mission, here. And I'd kind of prefer not to make the threads hard to read in order again (I think a new reader would want to read up to the end of the Havers mission, then read Guy's thread, then switch back to the main story? Otherwise they run into Jean before Guy, and that's the neatest way I can think of to break up the overlapping threads).

Although it might be nice to pull the thread out of the graveyard just long enough to slap a last update on and close the scene and thread more neatly before archiving? All Chris really had left to do was take possession of the prisoners. (Unless you had a twist planned).

>One of [Z-Man's] form types takes center-stage this time.
It's totally the spider-gal, isn't it. Elizabeth did mention nightmares, after all.
>>
No. 85696 ID: 8b533b

Since we're back, I'm going to see what I can do to clean up the wiki page. It's kind of become a wall of stats that's hard to read, and my wiki-fu is way better now than it was way back when we started.

Started with trying to organize spirit abilities so they're more of a useful resource for Zaealix or anyone else who wanted to suggest characters. (Though I might still clean it up more, move the personal powers to their own table, maybe. Or make it so you can sort by spirit level, or power trees?).


Question that came up as I was trying to organize spirit powers: Are the spirit 9 powers the same as the spirit 4 powers, or is there another set?

I ask mostly because I noticed there's not really a good choice from the current pool for Linda, when she gets there. She's undoubtedly finesse, but we already have Evasion, and Finesse Focus wouldn't be very useful to her (guns don't benefit much from being able to roll fin for str checks). I guess if we branched out type-wise Unbroken Will would have utility, and or maybe Fear Itself could swing something creepy from Nonexistent. Kind of underwhelming for a penultimate power, though.
>>
No. 85699 ID: 1be917

>No! The precog manipulated our stalwart hero?! Indignation and horror.
Your sarcasm. It wounds me.

>Spirit 9 Powers
Planned to be different. I'm still working on specifics, and if anyone has anything they think would would, I'd much appreciate the input. You are right when you say the the Spirit 4 powers are a little... underwhelming... if you try to hand them out at Spirit 9.
>>
No. 85700 ID: 43d307

Hrrrm... Part of me likes the idea of some sort of base breaker theme understanding?
Like... If say, Marc used this thing, he could see what/who he was when he first started out, how his breaker powers would turn out without getting another avatar/major interference and change, and finally what happened to him to make him the way he was now. Getting to read his own thread, sorta thing I think?
>>
No. 85702 ID: 8b533b

Hmm. I remember brainstorming possible variants on spirit 4 powers in the old thread but that was mostly switching around bonus or stats. Not really any cooler for level 9 powers.

Maybe... powered up or enhanced versions of powers that weren't worth it before? (Okay, I'm just reaching now. I'd still like Linda to pick up spirit sight for thematic reasons, but some new common power or whatever's next in the nonexistent tree is probably going to be too attractive to pass up).

Okay. By spirit 9, most breakers are going to have a pattern. Ways to avoid damage, or dish it out. So they need options that mix that up a little.

Some medium-power actives might be interesting. Something stronger or more reliable than an active break, but weaker / cheaper than a 5BP personal power. Offensive options: maybe forcing success (or allowing more rolls, a la forceful or limit break) on a certain kind of combat roll. (If you absolutely need a shot to connect? Make it. Sort of like an active, to-hit version of evasion?). Or a 'rush' or stim kind of thing where you spend a few BP to have an effective stat increased for a few seconds (really need a burst of strength to get through?).

Passive debuffs? Say, you knock your enemy off balance, and it's harder than normal for them to recover (different versions for different stats? Fin off balance, str staggered, wil confidence broken?). Maybe kicks in if you beat an opponent in a check bad enough (crit hit versus bad dodge fail) Permanence in breaks? Your changes to reality are harder for others to change or undo. Stealthier breaks? Some kind of spirit and/or will check that makes it harder for other breakers to sense you breaking, or to pick up on things you previously changed.

Personal rule change? When active, you change the way you interact with reality slightly, varies by character. Say, you're allowed to walk on walls like they were floors. Or you're unaffected by heat and cold. Or you don't need to breath. Light or friction doesn't interact with you normally. Some in-theme cheat to abuse. (Might be tricky to balance right? Between interesting and too-useful).

In the will realm, it might be interesting to see more powers that had some kind of affect on diplomacy. Bonuses to or means of persuasion and/or domination? A way to apply will stats in a physical battle? (Temporary force field or wall? Infringes on Sidhe's theme though).

Utility powers? Not sure if they fit the theme here, but a means of (willing) merging two BP pools, or allowing BP transfer. Some way of increasing an ally's chance of passing a check?

Hmm. Not really sure those are fleshed out enough to be interesting. Feel free to change, mix up, expand on anything.

>>85700
The introspection spirit journey is kind of a neat idea, but what does it do after that? It sounds more like an experience than a power. Unless it's ongoing. Or unless you meant it as a will ability where you force people to experience it?
>>
No. 85705 ID: 06cd1e

Initally it was meant as basically a way to inform the Breaker what they might have dominion over if they haven't figured it out yet/powers they don't have yet that they can discover.
Like...Linda'd pick this and and definitely learn about any and all Non-Existant Perks she can use currently, as well as any bonuses still within reach (Some things might get closed off for whatever reason or new paths opened.)
A better example might be Michelle or Aria since we had that Avi choice between them.
Michelle NOT getting it would maybe lead to her seeing how she originally might progress, perhaps into discovery of how to 'swap' Levi out with another demon or temporaily break all of them into existance. Or Aria, if she got...Let's call it Princess, from that avi-egg, she might lose access to say, getting a matching set of armor for when she fights with Golem, in favor of perhaps a chess-set esque army break or something...
...I think effectively, what I'm going for here, is a choice of 'ultimate' that's thematic for the Original Break (breaker without influence), versus Actual Breaker (breaker with any/all influences they've had.)...

As far as your ideas go...Let's see.

mid-power abilities-I've a thought. While MUCH of a breaker's powerset varies, one idea was something that you get dependant on your type.
Weapon- freeswap arsenal-pretty much? You get to change/re-manifest your weapon for free now. Great no-matter which path you take between variable weaponry or empowered reality-bending equipment.
Form-Army Formation- Outnumbered in a fight by hordes of mooks? NO MORE! With this power, Form types can divide themselves into multiple lesser variations of their Forms with this power.
Disclaimer: This power can and will stack with previous powers to create additional fighters, do not expect to beat them at their own game if you lack such abilities.
Avatar-Avatar of Self- An Avatar Breaker with this ability can use it to temporarily turn themselves into an Avatar Foci. Note that this ability is one that can bypass the standard limitation on Breakers requiring a Foci to use.
>>
No. 85725 ID: 134710

...Was kind of hoping someone else'd post so I didn't have to do so again.
Anyhow, more feeding off >>85702 !
The passive debuffs I figure could go as follows-
Fumbling Foes/Strength Sapping/Will weakening-mechanically, every dice victory you get over your foe in the appropriate category grants them a temporary (until next roll) penalty to their corresponding stats.

Possibly some sort of opposing buff power as well could be a thing?

Rule changes...Hrrm.

Vengful Tally- Every time the Breaker uses Death Avoidance, gain +1 stat point to each of their stats (STR,FIN,WIL)

Weapon Repair- a countermeasure for Weapon Breakers with uber-powered manifestations, this ability is to drop 1BP in restoring any weapon to pristine condition.

Hrrrm...That's something I hadn't considered up till now.
Form types have no real reason to not have a single, uber-powered form, beyond worst-case scenarios of getting foci-looted-once transformed they STAY transformed, and unlike weapon types that might have to remanifest/reload weapons throughout a battle, they can potentially stay in their forms for long periods of time, as we saw with that snake-guy, Mike I think his name was? Or our current protagonist Rev.

As for Will&Utility...IDK. Frankly I don't think I know well enough the effects of the Break Sight ability or Normalcy- esque stuff to really say what else a Breaker might actually need.
>>
No. 85747 ID: 8b533b

>Was kind of hoping someone else'd post so I didn't have to do so again.
I was considering responding yesterday, but didn't get around to it before work rolled round. :p

Powers themed by type instead of stat is an interesting idea, although those particular suggestions might be too strong for semi-unique powers. Freeswap: No manifest cost / weapon swapping seems is a big game changer (removes a big consequence and tactical decision from combat, and pretty much lets any weapon type fight like Isaac, without his drawback). And as for multi-forms: it's been established multi-body stuff is complicated and has mental costs. For instance, we still have huge limitations on doing multi-body stuff with Twinda. (Although our spirit must be high enough now that Linda could perspective swap, right? Right?). Rev's zombie / ghost summons are Not Smart (and take a personal power slot), and Raphael's potential spirit 10 power would have been a multi-form thing.

Doesn't Avatar of Self functional just change an avatar type into a form type?

Weapon repair is sort of in the same vein of freeswap, but seems much more balanced. It doesn't do away with manifestation costs, or make changing trivial, but it means you can't bleed someone dry by breaking or damaging an expensive manifestation anymore. Seems good. (Might be useful for Cass? Her saw's not that expensive, but a few times she's had problems with enemies who could break it. Chris' sword is pretty expensive, but then again it's never broke, either. Linda... had guns busted a few times, but I'm not sure this would be worth it, for her).

Vengeful tally is marvelously simple and effective. The more you die, the stronger you get. (For a time limit, or single battle, or day). Reminds me of the Black Caldron. I like it. Though it might be strong enough to be a passive spirit 5 power.

And we need more things that interact with death avoidance in interesting ways.

Possible ideas there: maybe a passive that makes it when you get killed, you spawn further away (sniper / ranged fighter's friend. Spawn at range and retaliate). Or the inverse for melee fighters (respawn point blank on top of your killer). Or you could have a delayed respawn (to fake enemies out). Or maybe just slightly randomize your respawn location relative to point of death, sightly weighted towards beneficial (so reality is less likely to put you back in that garotte, or on top of Levi's head. Providing you don't fail the roll).

I think I should try to stat up somebody who's power is based on tapping into how many times his opponents have been killed. So he's ridiculously unfair against experienced / good breakers (since they've died a lot) but he's actually at a big disadvantage to newbies (and normals). So for him, it would be all about covering up that glaring weakness and picking his battles (and/or using allies to cover where he can't). Fighting him would mean figuring out how he worked, and actually having a team / organization with weaker members to employ right.

>form types that stay in a form
There are disadvantages to that, though. Quality of life issues, mostly.
>>
No. 85750 ID: 1be917

Lots of good ideas. Always fun to see both what you can think up and what you think would be useable. I can easily say some of my own ideas are certainly more useful than others.

Regardless, I've found our resident Samurai's personal song, if anyone cares to take a gander.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2unb1Cf04EI
>>
No. 85754 ID: 8b533b

Surprisingly mellow for Chris. Reassuring, I guess. She's more at ease with her situation than anyone around her is.

>Will&Utility...IDK
I was mostly thinking will could use more options than "immune to mind control" and "cause fear". (Although I suppose modified versions of fear itself that inspire different emotions are pretty trivial). And uh, come to think of it, fear itself can provide a passive debuff, or at least it did the way Marc and Amelia used it.
>>
No. 85759 ID: 8b533b

Might also be worth looking at higher level powers that allow the knocking off of more than one BP at a time, a la battlefield instinct. Linda can't be the only person to have found a way to get around that. (Well... so did Marc / Levi).

Also, yeah, the challenging part is always to somehow balance powers that are both interesting and reality breaking but somehow reasonable for their power level (and deciding what makes sense as a power, personal power, a focus driven thing...) and/or with sufficient drawbacks. I admit I'm not sure everything I brainstormed is right in that respect.

And I also look forward to the idea of people who are Linda-level fucked up. Nonexistent and someone else / remember the fallen completely broke the normal power progression and type restrictions for her (and bypassed normal spirit slot limitations), and it almost remade or fundamentally alters her theme. (Or adds another one?). I have no idea where to start brainstorming or balancing breakers who might have found analogous ways to completely break the usual rules, but it's a cool idea.

Another less ambitious idea might be to consider doctor-analogues. Other people who could modify or edit foci. Or possibly, edit people / powers / abilities / themes. We've got cheating stuff like the ice gun and anti-breaking shotgun- there's no reason other people out there couldn't have found ways to unlock similarly unfair advantages.
>>
No. 85760 ID: 91ff8e

The problem as far as Will is concerned is that...Mental influence is cool in theory, but in practice like this? It's very much a background-stat that we don't get to see. The most DIRECT use of it seems to have been Guy issuing orders and passing himself off as someone he isn't...
In effect, it's fast talking almost, something that TGchan tends to be good at to begin with and thus becomes rather difficult to make Will really stand out properly...
I feel like something that would help is seeing proper Will Builds in action more often-there's possibly Marc&Amelia as a Will build, as well as Guy, but...I feel like we're not familiar with Will for some reason or another. Maybe if Magic becomes a thing Will can be what it's based on, since Spirit is so handy for Breakers anyhow...Hrrrm...
>>
No. 85774 ID: 8b533b

>Mental influence is cool in theory, but in practice like this? It's very much a background-stat that we don't get to see
Well, yes! That's kind of why I wanted to see if I could come up for more applications for it. Although, as a counterexample- roll to dodge is still a background effect, but we can see the results, and we still found Evasion useful as an ability. And can sort of tell when the mitigation effect kicks in.

>The most DIRECT use of [will] seems to have been Guy issuing orders and passing himself off as someone he isn't
That, and pretty much every time Elizabeth uses her sight or control wire. And Marc pretty blatantly forced a conversation to go the way he wanted a few times (and dominated the Angel-avy, and threw around fear itself in that last fight). We pretty obviously failed a will roll with Raphael a few times (say, almost persuading him to back down from that dream fight when he was half dead, and then whups, no). Linda herself used force of will (Power word: STOP!) to trip up an opponent (notably, Chris) a few times. And then, Sidhe's shields are will based (will as magic directly, there).

But yeah, it's hard to 'see' it working in regular conversation unless we get an amazing success or failure. Circumstance and personality often seem like bigger factors. (Especially when allies trust us enough that we don't need to forcibly persuade them into things).

Guy's frequent normality-enhanced bluffs were pretty fun, I'll admit.
>>
No. 85780 ID: 5795da

...Well thank you, I've FINALLY noticed a gripping spot for an idea.
Leader's Will- something something passive stat bonus to allies under your command equal to your will.
Figure of Terror- something something passive stat debuff to opponents equal to your will.

The primary thing that I spotted was that there wasn't a use of Will to enhance your teammates-if you can use it to demoralize and cower your foes you should be able to use it to raise morale right?
>>
No. 85906 ID: 8b533b

Been fiddling with the formatting on the wiki page, trying to break up the walls of stats so things are a little more legible. Better?

Does it make sense to the descriptions for stick personal powers in the abilities table, instead of in the stat blocks? I mean, I think it looks neater, but I'm not sure if it's as logically sound. (I could just have spirit abilities link to the table. Would that help?).

Still gotta decide what formatting actually makes sense for avatars, add a table for avy powers, and add Rev (and maybe reorganize the allies / others thing now that we have overlap between different character arcs).
>>
No. 86340 ID: 1be917

>>85906
Everything makes sense. To me at least. Certainly easier to find spirit abilities, and everything looks quite a bit neater already.

>Sidhe
Some changes to Sidhe, as she is now technically her own person. For starters, stat changes!

Will- 10
Spirit - 4
BP - 38
Spirit Abilities:
Death Avoidance
Circle of Protection
Shield Burst
Prank
Whispering Wind- Allows Sidhe to project sounds across vast distances. She mainly uses it to attract people into her traps.
Bond of the Soul- ?
>>
No. 86343 ID: 4d85c5

>Sidhe is now technically her own person
Oh. Wow. I totally missed the implications of that. I've been thinking of her as an autonomous avatar (powered by whatever Guy did, instead of a breaker). Which left potential weirdness for interaction with Michelle (would Beloved by Avatars affect an unaffiliated avy in some way?) and Linda (what happens if Remember the Fallen is applied to her? Do we tap into her original breaker, Guy, Jean, or something else?).

But personhood makes her an edge case in all kinds of weird ways. We've got a breaker who didn't start out as human (and/or a fragment of a person grew into a whole?). Who doesn't have a focus (or is their own focus? Kind of an avatar / form hybrid), and with a completely atypical power-progression. Quite possibly no ability to attune foci, no tramau (or a dual one? The one that created her, and what she went through when we confronted 'Emily'? ...only she probably can't remember that). I was wondering when we'd find another crazy edge case breaker- but we already have!

Really makes her interesting in light of the whole tear thing. Figuring out how she works might be another part to solving the puzzle of how one of them could become real.

Does she gain XP?
>>
No. 86347 ID: 1be917

Yes. She hasn't yet simply because she hasn't participated in anything and then gotten to a "safe" place, which is usually when I dish out XP. Something like allowing your mind and existence to properly take in what just happened and the like. Or something... eh, it's just easier on me.

Regardless, you are right in saying that Sidhe will not be following normal skill progressions in any way. She will only ever have the one stat out of the three, will not gain any of the normal progression of spirit abilities, and will generally continue to be a support role only. Of course, as she gets stronger, I'm planning on having her pull some fairly crazy things, but that is, of course, assuming she actually gets any stronger.
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No. 86402 ID: 2149ae

Erin Charlie Dales (Form-type)
Strength-3,Finesse-2, Will-1
Foci:horsehair bracelet (Centaur)

Trauma: It really hurts, losing your best friend, yanno? Like charles was the best. He had my back always, and it sucked when he tripped and broke his leg. Horse can't live on a broken leg...And nobody seemed to get it! They just would say things like "You know he was just a horse right?". Sheesh...

STR-8(-5)
FIN-4(-2)
WIL-6(-5)
BP-26 (-2)
SPR-5 (-15)
Active Break
Break Sight
Weight Null
Mount&Rider: So like, If someone rides me while I'm in my forms, I can give them one of three, umm, powerup things? Like they can get a horn, and blowing it makes our friends faster for a while, or they can get a banner, which makes those friends stronger, but sorta not as much stronger as they'd get faster? Oh, and both of those are based off my, uhh, willpower or something?
Foci: Horsehair Bracelet. (Centaur form)
(-1) additional form (Horse form)

Something something support form-type attempt.
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No. 86970 ID: eda819

Since Rev mentioned her recently, I got to thinking about Nicole and her powerset.

We know her gloves are literal force multipliers. They let her hit harder than she could otherwise. Sufficiently powerful strikes require charge time (mostly seen when she has to stop before punching through a wall). There's also an implied ability to pull her punches, lessening the force applied, so she can KO normals without death or serious injury (mechanically, maybe the effective weakening is accomplished by diverting force to charging, or the other hand?).

Now, her boots are supposed to function as the opposite of her gloves. How this affected her personal power was laid out explicitly (she can blatantly become an unstoppable force or immovable object) but what are the implications in a more normal use? If the gloves allow her to control the force she exerts on objects, the boots should be for modulating the forces applied to her (or at least, to the boots). Which would mean they're less about letting her kick harder, and more about how they let her stand.

The simplest application is a weaker version of her personal power. She can dissipate blows, absorb incoming force so she's not knocked down, knocked back, or knocked around (assuming she has footing). She can effectively tank hits she wouldn't otherwise be able to (to an extent. She doesn't have any additional durability without activating her personal power. Hits that can splatter her are probably still going to).

The more interestingly, I would think they would let her regulate friction. If the boots can control forces acting on them, Nicole should be able to control how much grip she has. If we held a Nicole v Linda rematch, using the ice gun to try and mess up her footing would be a waste of time. Properly exploited, this would provide a ridiculous degree of control over the space she fights in, and her own movements. Forget wall running, Nicole should be able to stand on walls, and damn near anything else.

Even more abusive than friction, if we can apply force mitigation to the force of gravity of the earth on Nicole she would gain a huge movement and attack advantage (crank down for fast movement and acceleration, crank up for harder hits). Could also allow standing or movement off of things that would never otherwise support her weight. (Standing on twigs, water-walking?).

Then there's the possibility of interplay between the items. Can force absorbed with the boots be used to charge the gloves? Can the glove charge be used to power the boots?

Of course, the vague part is just how much you can get away with before you cross the line from normal use to having to spend BP on an active break, or need to activate her personal power.
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No. 87549 ID: 4c5cf2

Finally done playing wiki formatting, I think, and finally added Sidhe and Rev. Not sure if I'm happy with the avatar abilities table but whatever.

So I thought I'd finally contribute some breaker ideas. Probably not going to stat them as out detailed as Z does it, more of a brainstorming thing. And uh, mostly more of the fucked up variety.

>bug guy
A form type, who turns into a swarm of bugs.

He should be primarily will based. We've discussed before powers with serious mental consequences- I would think splitting your mind into hundreds to thousands or bodies and trying to coordinate them while dealing with an alien set of senses would qualify, big time. The biggest hurdle for this guy is keeping it together during a fight. Also, communication (both ways) and perception is kind of difficult while transformed. (Potentially making it hard to work with a group, but he would probably be better off if he could).

Mechanically, speed and str would be proportional to size of the current form, which scales with power (upgrades / spirit) as he grows. He'd need a power to 'reload' the swarm, I think. Since you can't count on death avoidance to kick in if, say, only half the bugs are dead. Also opens up options of adapting mid fight and loading different kinds of bugs as 'ammunition'.

While in swarm mode, he's functionally a hive intelligence. Numbers of bugs become an issue- too few, and he's not got enough to work with, and it gets hard to think, too many and he starts to lose himself, and control. I'm thinking the distributed intelligence thing also makes him weirdly immune to and vulnerable to different mental attacks. For instance, a normal control wire in a bug? Congrats, you suborned a single bug. But something that could hit his mind directly? It's kind of hanging out there, right in the open, and already taxed controlling the form.

Injury should probably be psychological. Rather than literally doing something with bugs, I'd think some kind of past mental breakdown. A complete loss of self, fragmentation, that he spent years recovering from after. Which is now the exact thing he has to face and fight again every time he goes swarm, but the only thing that lets him contribute.

Spirit powers-wise, I'd say fear itself is a must. (Swarm of bugs for crying out loud). Warped reality might interact interesting with his powers, and/or active break could make him more versatile, to do the things bugs can't. (And it's a lot harder to stop him breaking. If the swarm spreads out, you effectively can't target / kill him as he makes hostile breaks).

>Power up
I'm thinking a breaker who's power is something like halfway between the Doctor's foci manipulation and Division 7's artificial breaker inducing.

Basically, someone who's power is enhancing normals, temporarily making them into pseudo-breakers. People he's worked with or dosed longer get better results over time. Potentially possible his subjects could actually end up breaking (due to the situations they're put in) or maybe the process actually blocks or drains what they'd need to break.

There should definitely be a cost to the target of this. Not sure how dark we'd want to go, but it shouldn't be good to do this to people. Maybe there's a recover time. Or it's addictive. Or it slowly chips away at something inside of you it shouldn't. (If we want to go really dark- it slowly consumes the normal's thread. Until it kills them and the poof out of existence. So he doesn't even know he's killing them).

The easy choice would be to make him a weird tool variant weapon type. Although, he could also worked as kind of a really fucked up ethereal avatar type. (Ie, manifests some kind of freaky parasitic spirit thing inside people to power them up. Would have to allow multiple manifestations at once too, which is really unusual for an avy).

Injury would be psychological. I think a profound betrayal of trust. Someone he had absolute faith in turned on him. Which is why his whole thing ends up with him being forced to put trust in others, and/or recruit a group into putting trust in him.

Several different ways to play it, personality wise. We could go with a complete bastard manipulator, remorselessly using people utterly dependent on him for power. He could be more well meaning, but ignorant of the real costs. Or trying to balance / mitigate the dangerous costs of using his power while working towards a goal he thinks is worth it. Obviously could work as a leader, or he could be picked up early on by someone else, used for their ends, since he can't really fend for himself.

Interestingly, could work as say, part of a normal resistance group. (People, frustrated and afraid, finding a way to stand up to the big bad breakers). Not sure if the fixers would see him as an abomination (he's making breakers!), or a step towards something better than themselves (breakers who can switch off). D7 and basically every evil warlord group would be glad to use him, I'm sure.

...may fall into the "there's no way to balance this" and "this don't fit with the story" categories, but eh.

Stats: will all the way.

Abilities: normality and active break probably fit. And a variant of spirit sight, so he can see the potential in non-breakers before enhancing them.

>failed precog / space cadet antitheses
I'm thinking start with some kind of weapon-type precog. Another gimmick, in a different vein from Elizabeth (sight, thread) or Jacob ('post'-cog, memory). Only she refuses the call. Instead of focusing on her core power, she turns her back on her potential and picks up a weapon or two, and ends up using her abilities to support a more normal fighting style.

Think a watered down version of Lindabeth versus Casey. Someone using perception or precognition to guide short-term tactical decisions. (Less 'this is the exact action to take to win, execute' and more 'this is what I should do' and 'man, this makes dodging and hitting easier').

The kind of person Sonia would disprove of. The epitome of using breaking to get around needing actual skill. Worse than the usual breaker, since she has an additional crutch to lean on (and that crutch kind of keeps her from learning). Her abilities gave her a huge edge early on, but further up the power curve, she's annoyed to discover her fighting style doesn't net anywhere near as big an advantage as it once did.

A weakness is she doesn't appreciate how much she's being lead. She lacks the scope to see the big picture, or dead ends coming.

Injury should be physiological. I'm thinking the fruit of knowledge, here. She learned something she wished she never did. Information she never wanted that destroyed some part of her life. Pandora's box once opened, and know held tight shut, hope trapped inside.

Theme is a kind of... missed potential. Not that she necessarily made the conscious choice to reject what she could have been. It was just... easier to turn away and hit something. It's been a common theme with several of our characters that they faced what broke them and came out stronger for it. The idea here is someone who looked away.

Philosophically, she's probably be vulnerable to recruit by the fixers, or the less willing to unite groups, since her whole thing is kind of about running away from herself, or what is. Not suicidal though- early discovery of the fixer endgame would probably send her into a panic. Definitely a follower though, not a leader.

Basically fucked against Linda, a tear, or anything her precog wouldn't work on.

Really fucked if she ever crosses paths with Elizabeth, since Liz is basically everything she's afraid of in herself (whether she admits or knows it), and in a unique position to utterly destroy her with fear itself. And Liz probably won't be happy with what she sees.

stats: finesse / will build. Either even, or finesse passing will.

abilities: probably unbroken will (fear itself would be too 'active', evasion redundant). Probably sight powers to aid tactical decisions.

weapons: ???, handgun of some kind, baton (melee and ranged options, and a precog-guided blunt weapon cheats more against breakers than an edged one)

>tl;dr
I waste way too many words making up cannon fodder for us to maybe shoot at one day.

>tl;dr tl;dr
I break that resolution I had about trying to keep my post size manageable.
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No. 87554 ID: 373c1b

>Wallo ideas

>bug guy
...I wanna call this guy Hive. Egotistical, perhaps, but Hive just feels too fitting.
..Anyhow, this has some interesting ideas too it. The idea of him being say, a fly on the wall for spying IS There, but I can see issues with remembering which bug is the one in the room as opposed to with the rest of the swarm/issues with mentally commanding them at a distance/staying together if the swarm splits up.
Most interesting feature is the powers this guy could have, to me.

>Breaker Maker
XDDDD, but yeah, this could go any number of ways. One idea I like, backstory-wise, is some sort of Russian Farmer-ish dude who came to America and well...Things did not go well. Maybe the 'betrayal' can be a friend who convinced him to move to America in a way that burnt the bridge back home, only for that friend to ditch him. Or better yet (Especially if I'm right about my theory) McCarthy orchestrates this, and successfully predicts that this guy becomes a breaker and now is forced to empower D7 agents...
Ooooh, that might be bad not just from a backstory viewpoint but a 'how are we gonna fight this' viewpoint. But yeah, story/personality was my thoughts here.

>Failed precog.
...This might sound weird but I think I can modify this.
Pandora's Box opened is what did it, what about making her a Cat-girl form-type?
The idea being that to add onto the 'secret that ruined everything' there's an additional element of 'be careful what you wish for/curiousity killed the cat' which leads into the next thing.
Some sort of 'nine tries' precog, where she gets to basically try out what works and what doesn't eight times and on the ninth she actually has to live with the choices she's made. Or maybe it activates when she would die, leaving her a somewhat sloppy fighter until something that would kill her happens.
Also serves as making her less obviously someone to throw Liz, Linda or Jean at, since there'd be a less obvious connection between her 'injury' and the overall theme of her powers.

I actually was toying with the concept of some sort of Cat-girl Breaker, but the nine-lives concept for a breaker power was a pain.
It either basically made her nigh-unkillable unless Linda was fighting her (nine lives per BP respawn, holy cripes!) Or was some sort of weird splitting thing (nine lives, but 1/9th the power/suddenly, 9 of her fighting as a team/as one mind) But none of it really felt like good ideas.
Might still try and make a 'Copycat' Cat-girl idea though it's iffy given that we've seen others with possibly simmilar powers.
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No. 87557 ID: 4c5cf2

We already have a Hive in Psychic Space Clones versus Space Bugs Quest. No duplicate names! (I do not actually care what name his group or enemies end up calling him by. Too on the nose and unusual for a birth name, though).

The espionage option you bring up is interesting. I suppose it would involve using as small a swarm as he could without impact intelligence, and spreading out or concealing most of them while using one or few as a scout? But yeah, as I imagined him, going fly on the wall wouldn't be easy. Bugs don't hear or see the same as we do (making spying hard without practice, or the right bug), the mental effects would make staying in form for long term surveillance hard, and yeah, focusing on one bug isn't supposed to be his thing. Could be doable though, in theory.

More generally, the idea of form types who can become something innocuous and spy is a good one. In theory, it even gives normality cloak a purpose, as it would allow you to infiltrate breaker groups without a floating number giving you away.

I'm kicking myself for missing the obvious "breaker maker" rhyme. But yeah, the idea here is I was trying to come up with breakers / powers who would be on a similar utility level to the Doc. Kind of a tricky prospect to come up with something similar, but not overpowered.

I don't like making the precog a form type because of the whole missed potential theme. It's a lot easier for a weapon type to make their own path than a form type. Lots of weapons to choose from, and you can use more than one at a time. You just have to tune them and increase the 'wrong' stats. Forms are rarer and you have to use one at a time. If she's still turning into a cat and using luck or 9-life based powers to fight with, she's still doing what her powers 'wants', which isn't what I was going for. She's supposed to be a would-be seer who looked away and ended up a fighter. (Albeit a cheating magic fighter).

That said, I wholeheartedly support a catgirl form of some kind showing up at some point. I think I've even suggested it myself, before! (...as if Linda isn't bothered by enough people hitting on her).

If you want to balance your suggested nine lives catgirl mechanic, I'd go for a modified death avoidance (or an ability that enhances it). Say, nine times per (day, week, fight, whatever), when you die, you don't just re-spawn. You can (choose to?) get sent back in time a few minutes so you can try to avoid your death and/or screw over what killed you. But it still costs BP as dying would. A cap makes it less abusable, and at best, you're still trading kill for kill, BP for BP. But as an advantage- your opponent wouldn't be able to tell he was getting kills in, or even costing you BP (especially if you had normality cloak). That's a big moral hit, and goes to psychological warfare. Also, it makes it very hard to chain kill you (and possibly lets you chain or disable an opponent). Could also open up suicide to go back and save a friend emergency moves.

Biggest problem, narrative-wise, is it's only interesting if the PC has this power. If any enemy were to use it, the reader wouldn't even be able to tell it was being used! (Well, unless we were playing as Elizabeth or Jacob, or supported by one of them, or had View the Weave active).
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No. 87574 ID: 373c1b

>Hard to defy potential with form
Hrrm... Hey!
I've got an idea, what if her original foci manifestation was a a scrying mirror, that she then turned into a shield, with the mirror facing outwards for Will-attacks while she bashes them with another weapon or something (sword&shield?)
Sound like what you were going for?
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No. 87576 ID: 4c5cf2

Pfff. Haha, using a scrying item into a shield-bash would be a pretty literal way of wasting potential.

Although I was really thinking of just doing it the way Cass did it. Just tune and use a different weapon as your 'main' weapon (chainsaw instead of knives). Opponents wouldn't even know she had a will based tool-focus helping her in a fight unless they were particularly sensitive to that kind of thing.

Changing what her powers do (repurposing her original manifestation / skillset to suit her new path) would take something like what Cass went through in Havers, I think. An epiphany, where the breaker faces their inner demons, and chooses their own path. Hypothetically, if precog-girl faced her demons, she could wake up to what she's been missing and embrace her potential. Or she could say fuck it, and find the strength to make her own path, and change herself- stop being held back. (So a magic shield or equivalent would be an late or endgame development for her).

...not something I expect a mook to go through before being dropped into the narrative as cannon fodder, though.

Right now she's supposed to be like... Superman using eye-beams to engrave nameplates. Yes, that's something you can technically do to earn a living with that power, but man is it not living up to what the potential is.

>scrying mirror
Reminds me that we never actually got to see what mirror-girl's powers did last arc, when we were hunting Holiday. Maybe she'll show up again, get drawn into our growing group somewhere now that she and her boyfriend lost their last one.
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No. 87589 ID: e0584d

Hrrrm...
So here's something that's a thought.
IDK if I've said this before, but I think McCarthy is based upon Fear and Paranoia.
There's a bunch of reasons why I think this, one being his name, as a referance to McCarthism I think it was called? Basically, it was a time you had to prove you weren't a communist should someone accuse you of it, like a witch hunt.
And then from there, look at his moves.
He had 23, an implacable killer.
He got into and heads D7, which grants him the ability to cause widespread chaos:
And look at how he outed the Breakers-as monsters in human form, effectively saying 'trust D7, and no one else.'
It also plays into his power to detect use of his name I think, only by working off his own paranoia rather than other people's fear.
The big problem, is he's not going to keep going for bigger and bigger parties like holiday, he's going for the whole hog right now, so it's going to be extremely important we find an answer to tears sooner or later.
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No. 87631 ID: 4c5cf2

Yeah. He's got kind of a... pregnant name, especially considering in the role he's in. It's a pretty good guess that his game is to stir the pot, and built something with a witch-hunt the same way Holiday built his party. Just on a much bigger scale and focused on different emotions slash a different facet of human experience.

Part of me wonders if he named himself on purpose, in universe (although that would depend on having a Senator McCarthy and a red scare to name himself after in this alternate history). There's also the fact that Agent McCarthy implied he's been active since at least the forties, so I've been wondered if he might have orchestrated McCarthyism himself, back in the day.

Although I'm not entirely convinced he's not up to something bigger than building up something big to feed on. He's had a lot of time to plan, and he has to have seen lesser tears try that approach and fail, over and over.
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No. 88720 ID: 52a0f0

... the life out of me.

Much fun as it is to see family and friends again, doesn't leave much time for me to do any writing of any kind. Or really much of anything, now that I think about it.

Regardless, as has become customary, I'm alive again. No hot pokers necessary this time.

Hopefully nothing else pops up to steal my time again.

le sigh...

Oh, and fun ideas are fun.

I really do like the idea of someone who is anti-thesis to Elizabeth. In a more literal sense than Jacob or whatever I named him... I think that's right.

Also, been toying around with some other fun ideas, like how I'm going to work in some other "friend" quests and such... companion quests? Whatever, I'll figure it out.

Also, I've started to put together the "legal" stuff that was asked for ages ago, we'll see how well that goes though, since I'm no lawyer by any stretch of the imagination.
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No. 88725 ID: a18f15

Welcome back!

>Elizabeth antithesis(es)
She'd make a good antithesis / opposite, but a poor foil (since she's really not in any position to compete). Jacob's more of a foil, since he's a similar power with a completely different outlook / goal / motive. Liz seems to try to shepherd or guide events, whereas he's more passive, with what seems be a scary focus on knowledge for knowledge's sake (well, from what little we know of his personality). There's room for some kind of interesting conflict, there.

>or whatever I named him...
Maybe I need to add a list of minor characters just so we can keep name strait.

>friend / companion quests
Side stories? (Sidequests?)

>no lawyer
I'm not either. Feel free to give us the cable news condensed version, or the lawyer summarizing to laypeople version.
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No. 88741 ID: f3a4d5

>Truly died before, came back.
Didn't think that Burning man Burnt all the way...Makes it REALLY interesting what would happen if he ran into pyro-teacher, or Nicole, or better yet, some sort of sitcommy both at once...
If you're looking for a Breaker idea from me...I don't have one ready yet, but thinking of doing something fun with the cat-girl, well, cat-boy idea, and remixing him into Nickel's backstory perhaps...
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No. 88744 ID: a18f15

Random ideas for non-existent hacks:

Tell George we've met before, and he doesn't remember. Let him check, update himself with our memories of our past interactions. (Really only useful if he can skim or read memories quickly, or at least faster than 1-1).

Jacob's whole thing is memory. It's possible he might be able to retrieve the memories of others who've forgotten us. (Although maybe he's not strong enough for that yet? Or it might involve crossing another power. Or... he might well ask a price for that kind of service).

Dreams? Dreams aren't always linear or consistent the way reality is. If the dreamtime really is some other plane of reality (or another plane connected to 'reality') and/or consciousness, we might find a foothold there with people we wouldn't otherwise.
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No. 88760 ID: 52a0f0

>>88744
He didn't. Then again, you'd have to talk to him as Linda and pry the information out of him if you wanted to know what really happened. He did burn though. Just not to death.

>Lawyer stuff
I'm sure anyone who is more versed in law is going to find so much wrong with this, but whatever.

To sum up the general disposition of the UNA, what they've effectively claimed is that Breakers are not "people" but something more akin to animals. Therefore, what they do with them is entirely up to them, and no laws that apply to "people" are therefore capable of being applied to a Breaker.

That's the essence of it anyway. There are miles of legal jargon, verbosity and other various forms of confusing bull that essentially make the matter as a whole confusing.

This has led to a basic options for defending oneself. The first, at least advocated by a good number of breakers, is to simply say fuck off to the UNA and secede as a nation. The Normals of the West are largely uncertain about this course of action, although the movement of troops towards Night City in what many are claiming is a clear military action has set off a number of activists. While not necessarily supported, becoming its own nation is not being discredited either.

Another "fuck off" viewpoint is simply seeking asylum elsewhere. Popular regions considered for this include the LR and the Imperial East. Many of the Normals in the West don't support this option, as not only does it leave them somewhat vulnerable to retaliation from the UNA government, but large parts of the West have taken to relying on Breakers to provide various services, such as Sun City's entertainment district.

The last calls for Breakers to demand citizenship in the UNA, therefore being recognized as people. Portions of the Normal population think this is the best option, especially those hailing from the east, although Breakers are more skeptical given as citizens of the UNA can be forcibly drafted to serve in the military. There are a few politicians who wonder why the UNA didn't just go this route to begin with, but any questions have only been met with silence, or with Division 7 propaganda about inhuman monsters.
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No. 88763 ID: a18f15

Okay. So... declaring them non-human instead of non-citizens. Interesting move. More the x-men / mutant response, I think.

For parallels, I was reading up on the justifications for the Japanese American Internment in WWII (which... never would have happened in this universe, but whatever). Apparently the way they did it was sort of martial law- they designated most of the west coast a military area, and gave commanders had the right to move / exclude any and all persons from military areas as necessary. Which almost seems reasonable in the abstract (we should be able to move civilians out of designated conflict zones or army sites if they're going to be hurt or in the way, right?), except it was being used to forcibly relocate a single group of people from their homes based more on fear and xenophobia than military practicality.

Declaring us non-human gives them a few edges, legally. Even if the international community disputes this claim, it gives them a justification to ignore any internationally recognized or agreed to human rights (alternate universe Geneva Convention need not apply). It also allows them to ignore a lot of domestic laws too, I'm sure. It also means, if we try and declare ourselves a separate nation, they have (more) grounds not to recognize it. Functionally, it makes it even more difficult than it would already have been for any other nation to object to or oppose what the UNA is doing internally.

>our response
The obvious first message of our response is that as long as the UNA refuses to recognize us as citizens, or even as people, that they have no jurisdiction over us. That instead of giving themselves unlimited powers over us, they're forfeited the right to govern us. (Simple, strait, and to the point. Something lawyers and philosophers can argue over forever).

The second move is publish our stolen data from D7 as widely as possible (send it to every company, media organization, mirror it all over the web, etc). If we can hold up proof that Division 7 has purposelessly induced breaks in people that really hurts their legal argument. (It's either proof that we are people, and they know it, or proof they're complicit in effectively killing or lobotomizing people, making them into non-people). The horrors they've committed against breakers don't give us any legal standing, put making them public does offer a counter to their propaganda, horror for horror.

Third appeal, we have to explain who breakers are, and how people become them. If people believe anyone could potentially break, they'll start to doubt. (It could happen to someone they care about. It could happen to me).

Fourth appeal is to other breakers, of course. We want to work with those we can.

Fifth idea to plant is the disruption this causes. Appeal to corporate America, the issuance firms, the greedy capitalistic business world. What happens to your business when employees become non-people? Where do their assets go, who gets them? How do you insure this kind of thing, where would the payout even go? What happens to their companies if an owner, or investor, or someone on the board breaks? What opportunities does this cost them. How much does all this change things, and how much does this make a mess of their world and their making money. How much is the government causing problems for them. (Not so strong a talking point for a speech, more something we spread through private channels along our own business connections). We want the machine frustrated with spokes in it's gears, and fuming about missed potential resources, not enjoying a wartime production boom.

As for our actual long term strategy: I don't think fucking off is an option. We don't have a way to relocate everyone, new breakers will still appear in UNA territory, we'd have to fight for a home wherever we went. Plus, the UNA is a military power, and would probably be plenty happy to strike at us without their own civilians in the way.

Formally seceding, grabbing territory, and declaring a nation has a whole host of problems. It immediately causes problems with all the normals in our local territory. We go from a vague force in the background of their lives trying to keep them safe from breaker related problems to their self-declared rulers. Local leaders and (state, city) governments will have to either bend to our will, or resist us. There will be massive and ugly splits in public opinion. And worst of all, if we become outright "enemy territory" rather than the homegrown terrorist / gang / animal infestation problem we're considered now, that gives the UNA a blank check for force. They can send in the military, bombs, planes, tanks (nukes?) and all, against their own "treacherous" civilians. And it potentially could draw other countries into the mess, causing a much bigger problem.

So we don't want to declare independence because as soon as we do, we're putting every normal near us in massive danger, and we lose our limited ability to hide behind them (assuming that for now the UNA is willing to restrain itself from massacring it's own civilian populace to get to us).

So... we settle on kind of a compromise. Declare ourselves a sovereign people, responsible for ourselves, but claim no territory. Don't interfere with the authority of local governments, police, etc. Make it explicitly clear we're at war with Division 7, not the UNA, or it's people. We're breakers, protecting and policing ourselves, because there's no one else to do it.

Long term strategy? (Not something we declare on air). We want legitimacy. Find a way to do away with McCarthy, beat back the attacks against ourselves, and put pressure on the president and the heads of the remaining divisions. Back them into a corner and force them to declare Linda director of Division 7. Our group becomes legally responsible for governing, protecting, and policing breaker activity for the country, instead of having to do it as a gang.

Plan "break the system to our own ends".
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No. 88764 ID: 52a0f0

>>88763
When you say sovereign people, what do you mean exactly by that?

Just trying to clarify so that we're both on the same page as to what you're proposing the plan of action be.
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No. 88765 ID: a18f15

I mean something along the lines of since our government has abdicated it's right and/or responsibility to govern us, that we're assuming the responsibility to govern ourselves. We're not claiming any formal sovereign territory, because the UNA didn't cede or abdicate any, and because we have no interest in going to war for territory.

Closest modern day analogue might be something like Palestine. A state that doesn't formally hold it's own territory. (Although with a very different political position on that arrangement, obviously). Or maybe something like the governments in exile for a lot of European countries in WWII. Although, if we're claiming D7 has illegitimate authority to govern breakers, we'd be more of a Division in-exile.

The advantage to this approach is it makes it a lot easier for normal people to put up with us, it doesn't give the UNA an easy means to all out attack our 'territory' (unless they're willing to hurt a lot of their own civilians and wreck public sentiment), and it gives us a strong legal framework / precedent / authority to treat breakers differently if and when we usurp D7 (preemptively circumventing the 'draft em all' solution, for example).
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No. 88824 ID: f13517

In retrospect, it occurs to me our recent choices are kind of funny. Not sending someone running to the rescue, and using the kid as bait, are hardly the usual choices we'd have made.

What a difference a perspective swap makes, huh?
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No. 88825 ID: 188b43

Personally? I probably didn't really say it that obviously, but I was thinking maybe we should go and try to free some of the prisoners in that web...
Calling Linda was SO VERY TEMPTING though, I gotta say.
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No. 88830 ID: f13517

I was poking fun, really!

Although as tempting as it would be to bring down the hammer, and get to pit dreamtime powers against each other (and force Linda to deal with arachnophobia), we would have had to stall till she got there, and it would have kind of been awkward narratively (since Liz would have had to go back on what she said, and there's unresolved plot from last thread in the way).

Pretty sure the current team can handle things, though. Between the four of them we've got ethereal, physical and abstract offensive options, and a defense. And I am enjoying the chance to give other characters a chance to shine (Linda's winning the xp curve by a mile).

I'm hoping maybe something with Nic will be next. Left in charge and having to deal with some crisis at home while everyone else is out.
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No. 98156 ID: 02422f

Happy birthday, nonexistent protagonist of a dead quest.
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