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File 135167863204.png - (103.98KB , 800x600 , Discussion OP.png )
62868 No. 62868 ID: dc2631

Discussion for Dollmaker. I will be dumping the 'statpage' for defeated dolls here - as well as Dolls whose names you figure out in the quest.

We can start with the lovely Bandita.


HUMAN-LIKE (A): Can pass for human under close inspection, but pain connection is heightened. Command reception is also heightened. Doll is still incapable of basic bodily functions and lacks orifices.

RANGED CAPABILITY (B): Grants a simple ranged attack that follows the nature of the Doll. The attack is somewhat damaging and is simple to aim.

SPEED (B): The Doll at this rank is somewhat beyond the human peak of speed and reaction time. Instead of relying on the Master to detect and alert the doll to incoming threats, the Doll reacts instantly, though can still be surprised.

EQUIPMENT (S): The Doll gains a piece of equipment along thier name. It is indestructable, for the most part, and does not wear or tear. It follows the highest 'attacking' skill the Doll has. It also has supernatural capability following the Word of the Doll, and thus acts as a stand-in for the skill Word Power at rank E.

HOT BLOOD (C): At this rank, the user and the doll can ignore some pain. In fact, such blows lead to an increase in other battle-related stats, unless stunned or otherwise incapacitated. The Doll's need to do battle is heightened greatly. This ability carries over into the master, making it dangerous.
Expand all images
No. 62871 ID: 9718f3

I'm rather annoyed that the consensus seems to be to squander the chance to pick up any of Bandita's higher-level traits. The mental link thing seems kind of useless at (E) anyway, given we can already direct Infinity's actions with our will. It isn't like she's shown herself to be a sterling conversationalist or anything that would justify this by actually helping us.

Oh well.
No. 62882 ID: dc2631

Word Power with Infinity is very strong, even at rank E, and at present, communication with her is very difficult BECAUSE of her lack of emotion or desire to speak. Relate allows for better communication, which leads to better tactics.

Certainly they aren't the obvious choices, but they do have advantages.
No. 68518 ID: 9b3d17
File 136246271540.png - (73.31KB , 489x600 , Jeannette.png )

A full image of the new Master!
No. 68519 ID: 5d98c3

Does she have a sister named Theresa?
No. 68524 ID: 14bafe

Huh, if it turns out that this new doll has a really high speed stat, we should probably take that. Even at high levels it doesn't look like it has any negative repercussions.
No. 68528 ID: 38a6a1

since we're all guessing the new doll's name, I'm gonna put my money on Seizure.
No. 68604 ID: 5d98c3

Sugar Rush.
No. 68616 ID: 14bafe

I'm gonna have to agree with whoever said SPEED back in the regular thread.
After all, the name was given by the Dollmaster, and who would choose Seizure?
It would be cool to see the frame named Energy; its Ranged Capability would be amazing, and an A rank Infinity blast sounds like a thing that we should get one of these days.
No. 68617 ID: 370c40

Ranks go above A.

They also go above S, based on Indie's abilities.
obv we need rank S human-like so she can eat hamburgers
No. 68861 ID: 14bafe

Yes, but we gain those skills at one rank lower than the original skill. That's why we could have gotten Human-like at rank B, Hot Blood at rank D, Equipment at rank A, etc.

SS seems like the kind of rank that has to be /built in/ to the doll at creation, and not gained by level. Unless this guy started with SS speed (possible), we're likely to get a High rank, but not S, speed skill. Hence, A.
No. 68878 ID: 9b3d17
File 136303200571.png - (104.09KB , 604x551 , TellmeyoursecretsDoll.png )

Some mechanic/flavour concerns have been raised, including the following. Please help me figure out if these need adjusting:

>Infinity's dislike for computers is nonsensical

>The mechanics behind Absorb and learning

>Whether mundane learning does anything

>Limitations on growth (Absorb being blocked during gains)

Please be frank and honest in your comments, but constructive.
No. 68880 ID: 49e805

People are irrational. Dolls are allowed to be irrational about things. Let Infinity dislike computers, make gaining skills require GOING places. It's fine, imo.
No. 68883 ID: d6ef5d

>Infinity's dislike for computers is nonsensical
Nah, it's fine. Computers are all about rules. Rules are constraints. Limitations. Sure, the patterns and fractals she deals with have rules, but they just define and shape the expanse- they don't limit it.

And computers literally can't comprehend infinity. To them, it's a discontinuity.

>Whether mundane learning does anything
I don't see why she couldn't train up certain skills. Obviously, there are going to be restrictions on that however, and the plot isn't going to give us time to grind.

>Absorb restrictions
It's magic, you ain't gotta explain that! And if you mean the library, that's just segregation of mechanics and plot. We're only allowed to get so much out of a limited set of resources.
No. 68885 ID: 2f4b71

Chaotic and fractal systems are based on very simple rules or operations being repeated many, many times, something which computers are exceptionally good at. Infinity, however, is something that computers aren't so good at handling. LArge but finite; AOK, infinite; NaN or various other errors (e.g. the Halting Problem).

I could see Infinity working very well with computers right up until the poor thing clogs up it's memory, overheats, corrupts itself, etc.
No. 68889 ID: ff6171

growth is the greatest thing a protagonist can go through to make a reader ecstatic, so I'll always disagree with any limiters that can't be removed without making things just outright silly.
No. 68896 ID: f2c20c

Personally I feel that if we have to drive all over the place to find more libraries it will severely limit the ability for us to gain skills that way.

On the other hand since this is basically CHEATING- gaining power without fighting- maybe that's okay.

I feel that Infinity could have a few reasonable reasons why she doesn't like computers. A) She's not near the source of the information that she's reading. It's a representation on a screen, like watching a projected film of something rather than being there. B) The information isn't static. The internet changes constantly. C) There's too much incorrect information or opinion on the internet.

I also think that she should be able to learn things mundanely, but it would probably require practice like anyone else, rather than reading about it and then knowing how to do it without any experience. Knowledge is not the same thing as skill, after all.
No. 68957 ID: bf54a8

yes like, take her to a gun range an have her shoot at targets for a couple hours.
No. 68958 ID: bf54a8

also it could be because computers can't keep up with her. she can read several books at the same time but a computer needs each page to load one at a time.
if we can get access to one f the internet backbone servers. the incredibly high powered things that have max internet, it may work for her since it can keep up with her demands.
No. 68961 ID: 9b3d17

One thing I wanted to do was split mundane learning and Absorb learning.

You see, Absorb is a magical ability, but Infinity simply reading manuals and the like is not. And any Stat - such as our current Knowledge one - can be upgraded using Doll Kills. This makes sense, magic applied to magic.

However, mundane learning, like knowing First Aid from a manual, cannot be upgraded with magical means. Knowledge stats can make huge leaps and bounds, but mundane knowledge is easier to gain at first.

Does this make sense?
No. 68962 ID: d6ef5d

>Does this make sense?
Yup. Magical abilities and knowledge are magic. Advantage: free things you're great at that can be upgrades instantly, when you have the resources to do so. Disadvantage: you can't train or improve them up by mundane means.

So we actually get two things from reading the library: the mundane contents of the books read (a lot of plot and information that's not necessarily good for anything, yet. Reading by itself isn't learning- it takes thought, time, and practice to turn information into understanding and understanding into useful skills) and the magical energy associated with all that- magical energy which we're choosing to apply to make a portion of the knowledge we gained (undergraduate level physics) completely understood, useful, and immediately accessible.
No. 68965 ID: bf54a8

we should go to a morgue and have her vivisect some corpses, memorize some human anatomy. knowing how all the bits go together is hella useful in medicine cause you know what NOT to cut open.

also, if we have it free we could have her Multiply an organ for someone.

course, putting the organ INTO someone would require at LEAST a B class in surgeon or something. A for heart. S for multiple at the same time.
No. 68969 ID: 89dc0d

So S rank = Black Jack?
No. 68984 ID: bf54a8

essentially, as long as we socialize her enough. otherwise she would become Fran.
No. 69089 ID: 92c81e

While it might help a little, memorizing anatomy, a doctor does not make.
No. 69093 ID: bf54a8

i said to also get her ranks in doctor skill. the anatomy is to be able to make organs from nothing.
No. 70504 ID: d6ef5d

Preemptive thinking about what we might want to choose at the next level up.

Word Power seems one of the most important things to upgrade. It's our connection to our infinity powers, and it allowed us to basically one-shot the last fight. Word Power has to be how Kinesis was doing his velocity manipulation, too. We want to improve the word powers we have, get new ones, and increase how many times per day we can cast.

Absorption is a possibility. Higher absorb could mean we get more upgrades per victory, and trying to beat the experience curve is always a good idea. Especially if we're going to be taking an experience penalty in the future by being merciful.

Relate can certainly wait, I don't think we need another potentially dangerous source of bloodlust if hotblooded comes up again, we can work around lacking human-like, and I think ultimately infinity word power can way more powerful than any weapon we could make (Especially since we aren't very highly invested in an offensive skill to base it off of).
No. 70506 ID: bf54a8

i have it from the author that word powers will ALWAYS be flashy. so what Kinesis was doing was something else.
No. 70524 ID: 933f92

Kinesis's word power was pretty flashy with the BUZZ. Essentially, he had upgraded his Word Power to the point where it was passively part of his capabilities instead of a per day thing. He could manipulate kinetic energy essentially however he like limited by his intellect.
No. 70527 ID: d6ef5d

>upgraded his Word Power to the point where it passively part of his capabilities
>manipulate kinetic energy infinity essentially however she likes limited by intellect
This is exactly what I want for us. Just imagine the potential awesome of fully realized infinity powers with no casting limit.

Hmm. If Kinesis maxed out his word power, does that mean when we absorb that the potential return on upgrading our power word ability will be stronger than it would be otherwise?
No. 70529 ID: 92c81e

Agreed. I am quite happy with the current rank of relate. I was one of those who suggested we get relate initially.

I suggest we get Martial Arts(C) or Word Power(D), or both, depending on the outcome of this fight and what is available. Word Power has potential depending on what we select for it to do *cough*infinite punches*cough*, but is limited in how much we can use it, at least until we rank it up higher. So getting martial arts up to a mastery level (as described in the main thread) is a much more stable option. If someone can survive our word power attack, it puts us in a dangerous position.
No. 70530 ID: af8414

but guys
if he has S rank speed we could get A RANK SPEED RIGHT NOW
No. 70531 ID: bf54a8

depends on how things work from lesser victory, do we get less power picks or weaker power picks?
No. 70532 ID: d6ef5d

>if he has S rank speed we could get A RANK SPEED RIGHT NOW
I'm more thinking he has SS rank power word, and since his word controls speed...

Meaning we might be able to get A rank power word? Or B rank, with the mercy penalty.
No. 70533 ID: 92c81e

No use arguing about numbers (letters?) until we know the details. Speed is likely not an option, since it sounds like it was entirely from Word Power.

Probably better this way. Super fast player characters tend to get OP quick.
No. 70534 ID: af8414

This is a good point...
No. 70613 ID: d6ef5d

I'm confused as to why so many people are voting speed when we have as powerful options as absorb and power word on the table.

Yes, speed in general is a good thing, but we now have an ally who has passive kinetic manipulation as a base power! It seems to me we should be able to use him for support and buffs- he can make infinity as faster as she needs to be. So long as he's alive and loyal, buying our own speed upgrade is redundant.
No. 70633 ID: f2c20c

I really would like to caution against expecting big results from upgrading Absorb. Keep in mind it's at rank B. Half of the power seems to be about general comprehension. Will upgrading it once give us a noticable benefit from winning our next fight?

Using this power on pretty much anything else seems like a better option to me, because we just don't know how much the power scales with Absorb. It might not even be worth it in the long run, because it might not give us more power from winning fights- it might just make Infinity able to comprehend more complicated stuff.
No. 70634 ID: 76b151

its because we nearly lost this fight. Without an extremely lucky replication we were dead. We would have recovered but we had no real way of fighting back. Indi is far to... normal. Besides her brain.
No. 70635 ID: d6ef5d

I still think speed is a waste if Kinesis could provide it for us.

And if Indy's too normal, than we take advantage of the fact there are two of us. Let Kinesis keep the target busy long enough for infinity to cast something fatal on the target.

And barely saving ourselves with power word, in my book, sounds like reason to enhance power word (so it can do more things, and doesn't have an absurdly restrictive once per day casting limit). Kinesis' passive manipulation of kinetic energy was pretty powerful- he just got careless and underestimated us. Imagine what passive infinity manipulation might do. And upping our physical prowess to overcome our normalcy versus other dolls doesn't seem enough to me. They're all gonna be doing that. We need to stack on what makes us unique.
No. 70642 ID: 76b151

kinesis will not be around for every battle. and I have a feeling most dolls won't want to interfere with duels.
No. 70653 ID: bd8b82

You do realize that the most dangerous opponents are the ones that don't rely on power right?
No. 74201 ID: bf54a8

so, group showering.
No. 74205 ID: a68e3e
File 137498601660.png - (43.61KB , 800x600 , I am terrible.png )

Totally visible, not completely and utterly fogged up, group showers.
No. 74206 ID: a23afd

You really are terrible.
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