Kaed 2016/07/19(Tue)23:32 No. 101774 ID: f9400c
File 146899632574.png - (40.67KB , 803x640 , Graezzit Draft.png )

I originally thought that Graezzit was going to win, based on overwhelming early response to him, and actually drafted up an opening concept for his intro.

Naturally, it probably won't be used, but I feel sharing it is better than tossing it away!

>>101774
You might still be able to use it with Aeseriq. Like, after he does whatever he's going to do with that soul on the table, he could lean out the window looking extremely bored.

>>101789

Nah, he's not even in the same sections of the underworld as Graezzit. And Aseriq has different ways to brood.

I know the quest hasn't been going on for long, but, if anyone has feedback about things they think could be improved (or is done well) I check back every so often :V

There hasn't been much feedback (positive and/or negative) because of the fact that this is still a new quest that hasn't been around for very long. Once the story gets to a major plot point or once it gets to the end of the 1st thread, there might be a spike in activity here.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I personally am enjoying this so far! Keep up the good work!

>>102367
It's pretty neat thus far; designs are nice, concepts are interesting, Aeseriq is working a cool angle.
Things will pick up once the mischief proper starts.

Commenting on this quest has slowed down a lot. It makes me wonder if something has made interest wane.

>>103132
It's probably more to do with the random attendance of the board in general, 'tis a fickle, fluctuating thing

So, where DID the demons in your story come from? They seem... off.

I'd like to know the lore of your story's Hell, as well as the general backstories of the two main protagonists.

We DO get to play as Graezzit later, right?

>>103132
I don't know about anyone else, but I stopped reading at around the fifth update when it became clear to me that this would be a quest where there's a whole lot more exposition and talking about doing stuff than actual stuff getting done. I understand the need to explain your intricate fantasy mechanics before asking the players to make possibly game changing decisions, but "show don't tell" is still good advice. You also kind of buried the lede, at the point I stopped reading I had no reason to care about the protagonist nor any idea as to what the plot would be other than the vague concept of "go corrupt some random mortals", you probably could've gotten away with this if not for the aforementioned slowness, but as it stood you had nothing to really hook me with. I like to think I have a fairly decent tolerance for this sort of stuff, but everyone has a threshold for the number of paragraphs of dry exposition with nothing happening they can read before getting bored, and you managed to reach mine. I don't know if that reflects poorly on you or me, but it might explain your suggestion shortage.

I have some thought that have nothing to do with the story been good or bad.

First thing that bother me is the use of the word "metaphysical" in this context. It's not incorrect, as much as I would like it were, since modern concepts of spirituality attribute many complex functions to structures supposedly outside the physical world.
Even if we accept this premise the immaterial structures in this universe behave a lot like they were physical. Not only the sinner soul is shaped like his body, but it's also restrained in a surface, it have a tong and a snout despite not having internal organs and with the same logic an object can be inserted in the "heart" of the soul. This seem so deliberate that I am willing to believe it's an actual provocation to the concept of immaterial afterlife.

Then there is the concept of sin from the perspective of demons. The judgment of what is moral and what is immoral is pertinent to communities that have to deal with the consequences of individual behavior. How can immortal beings outside mortal society judge what is and what isn't acceptable? Well, not only divine creatures preemptive pass judgment on every possible action, they made so those automatic judgments work as a quantifiable easy to compare substance that demons can use as currency.
And what about the implications of eternity? What can anyone do in the short time they have in life to earn unlimited time of pleasure or agony? This reward and punishment system is so disproportional that completely discredits the notion of some universal justice.
How come that the mortals, subject to the most severe judgment imaginable, can be attribute with free will if only creatures like the demons are allowed to act without fear of eternal damnation?

>>103200

This is probably a problem on my part, as I was advised early on that I need to cut down on the mountains of words a bit and have some actual stuff to do.

I've been trying to do that, and provide interesting scenarios, but I guess if you don't like reading lots of words, maybe it's not for you? I came into the Aeseriq side imagining him as a very loquacious individual who enjoys the sound of his own voice, and characterized him as being very expository-aligned. If the general consensus is this makes for dry updates, I wish to point out I've been trying to give much more choices that are actually choices, to try and give something interesting to do.

I wish I had read this earlier, because looking back on my last few updates, I am still doing a lot of exposition I could probably have skipped unless asked about it. Bleh.

Does anyone else thing this is too wordy? Should I embrace brevity for this quest?

>>103206

That is a lot of philosophical questions, and some of what you're asking me is not maybe as relevant as you might think? I do not believe Aeseriq cares much about the details of the universe outside of his personal plans and activities. Answering these questions would require a lot of exposition, and I feel like I am already struggling to keep people's attention when I only touch on things relevant to the story.

>>103199

That's a complicated question to answer, but one thing I've been mostly ignoring because it wasn't important is people keep calling Aeseriq a demon, which he specifically refers to himself as a daemon. I will admit, when I started this story, I had only a vague idea of the general cosmology of the afterlife/underworld, and sort of generically assigned the D&D standard of Demon/Daemon/Devils (Chaotic Evil, Neutral Evil, Lawful Evil). I have since discarded that after some thought to integrate them into the world setting I had previously, as seen in another quest I did that is currently on indefinite hiatus.

I don't mind fleshing it out more, but again, I start to worry about how much I'm writing, because I am already getting complaints this quest has too many words..

As for Graezzit, I planned to make the non-picked character an antagonist against the one we did pick, but maybe there will be some sections with him, if people want it.

My concerns don't have much to do with the quality of the narrative, nor do they have an explicit place in the narrative. However they are problems to consider for worldbuilding.
They may be mostly just irrelevant thought, but the last one certainly hurt the empathy of the reader toward the protagonist. There is a disconnection between the judgment of mortals and the judgment of demons: Aeseriq is valued by his pride while Manarr is punished by his. In this percieved injustice we tend to sympathize with the mortal because his existence is closer to ours, making it difficult to partake in Aeseriq sadistic enjoyment. It would help to be show some limitation to the demons in relation to the mortals, making them more sympathetic in the perceive unfairness competition.

I find the exposition complains a bit unfair. An alien setting as the immortal afterlife do require a lot of explanation otherwise all decisions would be made blindly. This can be avoided by starting in a more grounded scenario and slowly introducing the extraordinary, but from the get-go we followed demons in hell.
You can be more mindful of explanations, especially since it isn't clear to who Aeseriq is giving those, but that doesn't make them unnecessary at times nor does that mean the amount of words are a problem. If you feel the text is too long for someone taste you can compensate with more images.

And I will call the character whatever they identify themselves in the narrative, but for discussion I will continue to identify by whatever standard is more common in general culture. I understand D&D distinctions have mechanical functions for the game setting, but those separations aren't followed by myths and other fantasies, so in more generic discussions end up causing more confusion than helping.

>>103551

Those are some pretty valid points, I'll admit, and I will give them some thought and address them when I have time to really sit down and parse them out.

As for the direction the narrative is facing, I do have an answer for that, and it's at the moment a resounding 'not yet addressed'. I may make up some sort of 'orb of infinite psyche' excuse at some point, but I am very adamant about not straying to the point where the 4th wall is actively addressed and we start doing goofy non-canon stuff like having outside characters pop up and address the audience directly.

It's something I'm leery of, and may suspend explanation of who he is narrating to for now just for the sake of not further cluttering up an already packed plot.

>>103553
Daemons are powered by souls right? maybe suggestors are the myriad lingering voices of those consumed by Aseriq?

regardless, don't think too hard about the nature of the narrative. I'm sure a pride daemon will talk to themselves on the general principle that nobody is better company than they are.

>>103554

Seems reasonable to me.

The long awaited dinner party approaches, and with it, story tension. There's been enough puttering around and getting a feel for the world setting. Time for some intrigue.

Maybe even action.

Who is to say~

>>104411
>Who is to say~
You and Trout, that's who.

Phew. Sorry about the long non-update time. I got busy with a new job and kept being unmotivated to write. Posting something soon.

>>107903
gee if only we knew some Daemon of roughly equal power to Aseriq that uses green fire eh?

but that's meta knowledge and basically cheating, so our poor shadowfriend is in a pickle.

Were the two always going to interact at some point?

>>107909
If it is who we're all expecting it to be, then it makes sense on why he's with this d'navian. He's jealous because he doesn't have any magic and his jealousy attracted the fire daemon of envy to come make a deal with him.

Kaed 2017/01/21(Sat)19:03 No. 107919 ID: f9400c
File 148505420573.png - (16.30KB , 497x411 , Uh oh.png )

>>107909

This plot has points at which I sort of plan the story to converge, and everything outside of those was sort of player guided.

I always planned for both characters to be involved in one way or another, but it might have turned out differently had other decisions been made. The story is already going in a direction I wasn't expecting, but that I'm okay with. :V

For instance, I thought people would have noticed that Vinter was serving snacks at the party and immediately pointed him out - I established there were only two d'navians working there, and he had completely different markings - but no one even seemed to notice, distracted as they were by fat dog and flirty dog. XD Thus, a bunch of nobles bit it and THEN we noticed him.

I also honestly hadn't thought there would be so much push for Greta to be brought back, or for Aeseriq to handle things by physical conflict.

>>107919
>I also honestly hadn't thought there would be so much push for Greta to be brought back,

She's cute! In an angry way. Also it seems practical, if Manarr depends on her for his financial success. If he goes broke he becomes a less effective tool. The challenge of potentially corrupting Greta into being a servant as well is enticing, too, since she seems more competent, and it seems like it'd be fun to actually go through the process of tempting someone to the demonic bargain, as well as just starting with one established contact to begin with. Also then they'll be damned together! How romantic.

>or for Aeseriq to handle things by physical conflict.

There's a sense of visceral satisfaction to the idea of revealing your full power level after it's been concealed for a while. Also a visceral satisfaction to physical violence in general, when it's not overplayed. And I guess we assume Aeseriq is physically stronger than any normal mortal just by virtue of being a high-level demon?

>>107920
>And I guess we assume Aeseriq is physically stronger than any normal mortal just by virtue of being a high-level demon?
There's actually no assuming. Aeseriq literally stated that he's physically stronger than an average mortal, he just prefers not to get into physical combat if it can be avoided.

>For instance, I thought people would have noticed that Vinter was serving snacks at the party and immediately pointed him out - I established there were only two d'navians working there, and he had completely different markings - but no one even seemed to notice, distracted as they were by fat dog and flirty dog. XD Thus, a bunch of nobles bit it and THEN we noticed him.

To be honest I though he was a dog. Please don't take that as an offense, but in this style the races aren't very visually distinct.
In addition to that he only anear in one picture where he is in a different plane, in reverence, with a similar clothing and fur color to the garbage boy, and his lighter colored patter is aligned with Aeseriq's robe.

>>107938

They seemed pretty distinct to me, smaller rounded ears as opposed to big pointy ones, along with shorter snouts. And what's all this about being on a different plane?? Your comment confuses me here. I guess it's possible that maybe I simply know what I'm looking at, but what, did you think Aeseriq's robes were casting light on the lower half of his face or something?

>>107945
>plane
Background instead of foreground, I'd imagine.

>>107945
Consider those excuses for why I didn't saw this clue. I don't have more to add.

As we near the end of the first chapter, I take some time to reflect on the results of this quest. I think I see a lot of room for improvement. I seem to need to work on giving less 'non-decisions' in updates - should you kill him with an axe or a club? The answer is, they die either way.

I think that might be the biggest problem keeping progress stalled. I stop to ask the audience to choose something when they don't really need to decide, and the story should just move forward until there's an actual meaningful choice.

Kaed 2018/04/10(Tue)17:38 No. 122259 ID: 497b5f
File 152340711573.png - (150.16KB , 1200x693 , WinenDine.png )

Here's full opening image, because I realized the gif was kind of shite and fucked up colors.

A message for Kennit, since by the time I started really following this quest, it was too late to offer him a suggestion:

You should realize that your soul is almost certainly going to end up in Aeseriq’s custody no matter which of these two options you’re stuck with. Therefore, since direct possession is clearly something Aeseriq wants, you should see if you can’t renegotiate to that, in exchange for making you into a daemon instead of harvesting you when it comes time for it. Since you’re unwilling to take the direct “roll over, die, and pray you’re a good boy” route, this is the only bargain you can possibly make at this point that can result in anything even adjacent to a “sort-of win” in the long-run (as even being a daemon servant in debt is more appealing than torture and consumption for eternity). Obviously, turning around and immediately trying to renegotiate is passé; just something you should consider in the near-future.

Honestly, I would love to restart this quest some time but the biggest issue I have is that when I started this quest almost 10 years ago, I only had a very dim idea of how I wanted my setting to work. I actually had been mulling over the setting itself for some years, and it may or may not surprise whoever is reading this that this story takes place in the same world setting as my other quest, Legacy Quest, which I started OVER 10 years ago, though many years later, and in another part of the world.

However, the world that is represented at the start of this story is not the same world that it was when I started. There are many elements that I look back on in distaste, like coming up with a bunch of random ass imps and lesser daemons all with poorly translated germanic words for name. And an insanity demon that keels over and dies the moment it smells roses? Cringe.

At the time, I was just throwing stuff on the baking tray, so to speak, and even if I haven't been writing the quest itself, I was still establishing the world setting more. And a bit part of me kind of wants to redo the first chapter entirely, to more fit into the setting I am fond of now, which is more set in stone than it was back then.

That doesn't exactly feel right, though. So I'll have to think about it. In the meantime, have some lore pages that I had made about daemons from this story.

It's cool that you're still thinking about it. Usually I suggest continuation over a reboot, but if it's been this long and the setting's drifted a lot maybe that does work better.

Cool lore dump. Imo, a reboot may work out better, but you could incorporate elements from what occurred in the previous thread to lead into the fresh start.

So, being as demons are a creation of negative emotions and obsessions, does the setting have the reverse occur where sustained positive emotions and convictions create proto-whatevers of a different makeup?

Like a rarer reverse-demon configuration (i.e. spirit or 'angel'), where a mortal with their mind set to it - or perhaps accidentally through their personality and life - cultivates something that then somehow subsumes a soul (say on the mortal's death) and becomes a permanent entity?

Consider zealots, monks, ascetics, fighters for a cause - or just someone with an upbeat personality, a work ethic, or the fortune to not have life's little miseries and temptuous foibles bring them out of their decent groove for long enough.

I imagine interesting things might also be happening with religions here and communally created entities. Gonna bet there's some fucked-up looking angels out there. Or maybe deamons masquerading as 'em, pending on the sincerity and positivity of worship, I suppose.

I may not really know the context, but an insanity demon dying from doing something mildly well-adjusted is really funny and I am glad to have come across the idea.

It's been a while since I came back here, sorry!

>>139701

Not particularly, the creation of daemons (or familiars, as they were called in the primordial days before any of them were severed) is generally a result of mental illness or severe trauma in one way or another. People don't tend to dwell on positive emotions to quite the same extent as they do negative ones.

People identified specific dangerous emotional states, and put words to them, without giving them a religious significance as 'sins'. And it's easy to write in those seven for readers to understand without having to make up new words. Imagine if I decided to call wrath "enragedfulness" or perhaps even "dwamolsi", some total nonsense word that doesn't exist and causes the reader to stop mid sentence and wonder what the fuck dwamolsi is. It's distracting, and cultural concepts in the real world are easier to adapt.

Anyway, my point in this ramble is that while there definitely have been cults, religions, and zealots, the kind of people that would form a protodaemon out of them are more likely to be obsessed, hateful, fixated on some wrong they perceive in the world. You don't manifest a daemon on good vibes.

I suppose, however, that good things could hypothetically come from someone creating a daemon. If someone was angry enough about, say, the poor going hungry that it became an obsession to fix it, and it went on long enough, they might form a daemon that could help them feed the hungry, but bear in mind the amount of mental anguish they would need to undergo to form such a daemon would probably mean that by that point, they were not mentally stable. Their modus operandi would probably be blasting their way into food stashes to steal and redistribute food rather than hosting a soup kitchen with their daemon.

That being said, however, there ARE something akin to angels in the setting, but they are not generated directly from mortal minds. They are called eidolons, and they act sort of as psychopomps and guardians for mortal souls. They strongly dislike daemons, who tend to steal and hoard them, but they are otherwise very mysterious entities and not well researched by the mortals.