How late is this dinner, anyways? Are you going to have trouble staying up?

>Which I guess means she was lying to me
...maybe? It would depend on if she understood exactly when the end would come. It could be she wanted to or intended to teach you, at least. Or it's possible she found other ways to leave you information- meaning she might end up still teaching you.

>It feels a little weird to use a fork when everyone else is using chopsticks.
Well, it's generally better to use what you can than look silly struggling with what you can't. If you want to learn that skill though, you certainly have time.

>I hear you are living with Grandmother Ashley?
Yes, I am. Ashely has been very kind to me.

Hmm. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to the introductions, though. They know who you are, and who your mother is. Rattling off the full list of celestial titles and ancestry doesn't seem like the right tone to set. We're trying to reach out to them, not rub in the "I'm a god here to take what I want" thing.

Should I maybe talk about the people I've met here?

>>576033
Not a bad idea. Establishes you have a presence in the community, and generally supports how you're trying to present yourself, here. As a person rather than a force.

Hmm. I'm having a hard time reading the atmosphere here. Catherine, at the very least, seems to be taking this way too seriously, as usual. But there's also her mom; based on her emote-shushing of the small talk. she seems to have her own ideas of how this dinner should go, and (as we've heard from... Ran?) would probably like to feel like she has some control over this situation, given how tangled up it is in her daughter's fate.

All these expectations the Kichis have of you... I suspect those are making it awkward for them, making it harder to have a real heartfelt conversation.

>>576033
Probably wouldn't hurt. Perhaps a brief and simple introduction for yourself, in a "you probably already know" way, but then follow up with "but right now I'm staying with..."

As the saying goes, "you have a home in Fortitude", and thus, a family. Small talk which reminds the Kichis that your own family is no longer purely celestial... maybe, just maybe, it will help to put them at ease.

> How late is this dinner, anyways? Are you going to have trouble staying up? 

Depends on how long it is going to be. It's the start of sunset now, and I start getting sleepy at twilight. But twilight is longer now than it was earlier.

> If you want to learn that skill though, you certainly have time. 

Might be something to do with Catherine. I do like being around her.

----

"Yep, I've been living with Granny Ashley. She has been very kind to me. She's good to all the kids who live at her place.

"There are a whole bunch of them. Lady Bentenmaru was staying with us. She was some sort of star sailor, used to have her own ship. I not sure how that worked with what mom told me about space not being real. Now she is on one of the trading ships. She should be back in a few weeks.

"There's Matthew who likes movies a whole lot, and watches them with the rats every day.

"I tried watching Snow White but it was a little too scary to be fun."

Catherine blinked at that, surprised, her brow furrowed.

Robert nods and asks. "So, what places in Fortitude do you like? "

"Well I think your pools are really pretty." I replied, pausing to think.

Ran snorts and points at Catherine. "So is this how she stole your heart? Flattery of what we care about most?" I think she was trying to joke, but it just makes Catherine look annoyed and a few of the family chuckle awkwardly. "Sorry. Uh, Jasper where else have you visited?"

"Well..I've been going to meditation practice at the Sosunov temple. It seems to help get my mind and body together. The temple to Mom on little Island of course. I think Mother choose well with Mother McCormick.

"I went to the Fencing club in Horizon, but it was creepy. I didn't like Soun Shounen, his beauty was too much like attack."

Abronychus and Abydos both start talking at once. "How can you not like Shounen! He is our best football player! And most gallant boy, and" "Yeah, there must be something wrong with you. Everyone loves Shounen!"

Orange very sternly says. "That is not how we talk to a guest. Apologise now."

They glare at him. But he and his wife glare back.

The boys stand up and bow, "We apologize for our rudeness." And then leave the table, stiffly.

"I don't know what came over them. I don't trust Entropy. He is much worse than Cedric ever was." Hikari muses.

"Lady Jade deposed the Mayority before the shrine was founded, Mother." Ran notes skeptically.

>

>Might be something to do with Catherine. I do like being around her.
Sure. She'd probably be willing to show you / happy to have a reason to do something with you. (And at the same time, doing something 'normal' with her is a good thing. Can't let her rush into the dangerous stuff).

>How can you not like Shounen! Everyone loves Shounen!
Well, yes, that was what we were wary of. Horizon has its influence even here, it seems.

Maybe if we see them later we can manage some small apology. Maybe he's their friend or someone they look up to, but, well, vampire. Sun. The two of you don't mesh so well. (They might accept this as an excuse, but I doubt it'll make either of them very happy with you, still).

>I don't know what came over them
Don't blame them. Something about him, or about Horizon, maybe, makes you want to like him. I think I provoked it there.

Really not sure how to address the clique regions thing, especially since it's OOC information. Maybe it's better for Jasper not to comment, or let it go?

>I don't trust Entropy. He is much worse than Cedric ever was.
I don't know really what think of Entropy, yet. He's... strange, and confusing. His son seemed all right.

>Cedric
There was a mayor?

Was Soun Shounen a vampire? I don't actually remember. Just that he was really really pretty, and it was hard to not just do what he said.

>>576345
Ah, I remember now. Sir Robin mentioned that he sparred with a vampire at Fencing Club, but then when we got to Fencing Club, Soun Shounen showed up and stole the show. I don't know if we actually got to meet Sir Robin's vampire friend or not.

The whole thing was kind of awkward, in retrospect. Although I guess any interaction with a supernaturally charming person is going to be awkward one way or another. I wonder if he even knows he's doing it?

If you don't mind the kids' outburst, may as well say that and smooth things over a bit. Everyone still seems like they're on some edge here.

>There was a mayor?
Yeah, the bit with Entropy and Cedric sounds interesting, especially since it sounds like mom was involved?

>>576345
>He was a vampire?
Yes, >>576353 is the reasoning I was using. It didn't even occur to me that the person we met might not have been the person the rats were planning to bring us to. His description didn't help either (something precious stolen and give but not understood sure sound like undeath to me, although it could mean something very different if Jasper was meant to be the subject and not Soun), nor that you immediately fell under what appeared to be a kind of mesmerization (a traditional vampiric power). It seemed like confirmation, at the time.

I guess we shouldn't use that as an excuse, then, if we're unsure.

>I wonder if he even knows he's doing it?
Jasper said "He definitely noticed that I resisted" when we questioned that before, which would suggest he is aware of it. Or at least, he's aware she reacted differently from how everyone else does. I suppose he might not be aware of his own role in the usual behavior of everyone around him? There would be kind of a bias not to notice what seems normal.

I think the rats brought me to Soun instead of bringing me to the Vampire.

But that's just details.

Small talk, my ancient nemesis; we meet again.

My favourite ways of getting past the awkwardness of small talk is telling jokes, asking for information, and trading stories. I don't know nearly enough about the Kichi family or their ideas of morality to want to risk supplying you with my most tested stories though: I'm not sure what they consider appropriate, inappropriate and taboo. Stories from your life are going to be things they either can't relate to or which they would find too easy to relate to probably (badly so). The safest thing is to try and get them to talk about things they find interesting, but I'm not entirely sure what those are.

You could try this, "I've been hearing a fair bit of grumbling and complaining about Entropy actually, which seems a little bit surprising since I thought he mostly stayed in Horizon instead of coming here to Fortitude. I'm sure being in his presence by itself is enough to find him difficult, but is there a story about that I'm missing?"

PowderedLight 2014/05/31(Sat)13:26 No. 576648 ID: 26f5c3
File 140156799338.jpg - (15.04KB , 248x204 , Politics.jpg )

> You could try this, "I've been hearing a fair bit of grumbling and complaining about Entropy actually, which seems a little bit surprising since I thought he mostly stayed in Horizon instead of coming here to Fortitude. I'm sure being in his presence by itself is enough to find him difficult, but is there a story about that I'm missing?"

Orenge and Hikari begin to talk at the same time, the younger closing his mouth and noding to the grandmother. "Mostly its about his damnable school. Now I have nothing against higher education, I'm a scholar my self, you need to be to be a good seer. But it's dangerous, more dangerous then Big Lake, and most of Fortitude are fisherfolk or bakers or craftsmen. What can a fishersman's son learn at School that he cant learn better by putting in his share of work for his family?

"Now Arcadia with its lights and games and shop foxes, or Horizon with it's Devieant Sciences..those folks probobly need it, but the fisherfolk here, or the farmers in the Walking fields? Their children could be better served by helping their families, or maybe studying with one of the Shrine families, or Prof. Hideo in his Archive."

I nodded, not entirely understanding.

"Who was Cedric, and what was the Mayority?" I ask.

Catherine answers eager to say _something_. "Cedric is one of the nicest Vampire Princes. He doesn't even really have any serfs anymore, and he pays for the Orphanage that one of my friends live in. He was trying to build a Night London, a place where vampires could use the new steam technology and rule openly, but kindly over an eternal night.

"The old books say our ancestors kind of hated him because he was taking advantage of the Giants and Youkai truce, which was for _us_, _humans_, not vampires. But the Giants had already gone to sleep. And the dream priests and Stray Cats had already tamed the worst of the Youkai.

"Perhaps that was why your mother came here, and broke his eternal night."

Catherine looks around a little embarrassed to be the center of attention, Hikari speaks up.

"My granddaughter has adequately summarized the issues. I didn't think you read those books I gave you."

>Their children could be better served by helping their families, or maybe studying with one of the Shrine families, or Prof. Hideo in his Archive."
>I nodded, not entirely understanding.

'Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world.' ― Vladimir Lenin
University students go away to a different place, with different peers and authorities than what they grew up with. What they value and what they do in Entropy's school is significantly different from what is 'normal' amongst fishing families that apprentice their children within the community, or the family itself, to take up positions in inter-generational family enterprises (like a fishing boat). There may be more to it than that, but that is enough to be very disruptive in a place like Fortitude.

As far as what to say, request for comments fellow advisers:
"Hmm, I think I understand: This was an exceedingly polite wake up call about things I need to know. As the only resident Imperator I have a lot of local history and geography I need a crash course on just to know who and what is likely to come visiting, or to threaten the peace, or otherwise have their problems also become our problems somehow. The summary so far tells me that Cedric is my enemy whether I want him to be or not. Is that close to accurate?"

Huh. That sounds more like the conventional political squabbles surrounding modernization than against a power grab or attempt at indoctrination by Entropy (although it doesn't rule it out). Surprisingly mundane.

The stuff about Cedric is interesting, but we really don't have the context to understand what it means (how was he taking advantage of the true, what the significance of the truce was, what it mattered that the relevant sides were asleep or tamed, or why Jade saw fit to interfere in what he was trying to accomplish). We may need to follow up with Catherine later, unless we want to turn diner into a full on history lesson.

Flash her a look or a smile or something for helping, and as reassurance against the embarrassment she's feeling.

>Cedric is my enemy whether I want him to be or not
Well... not necessarily. He might hold a grudge, but then again, if his long term plans depend on the sun not interfering, he might see a new administration as an opportunity. There might be attempts at cooperation or manipulation or coercion or... any number of things. Certainly an old politician understands how to exploit opportunities and changing power structures. If he still has reason to do so.

>Flash her a look or a smile or something for helping, and as reassurance against the embarrassment she's feeling.
Oooh... right. This is an opportunity to compliment Catherine and her family:

"If I had to guess, Catherine has spent years preparing for me to come crashing down from heaven. My upbringing absolutely did not prepare me with the sorts of general knowledge I need to even understand what people here are talking about embarrassingly often. I'm sure that we're all varying degrees of uneasy about her assuming that kind of position and responsibility so young, but I think it's a credit to her and her family that she treats this so seriously."

Is it normal for a high school to be more dangerous than a sailing trip? Mom's stories about Odysseus made the latter sound like a big deal.

I reach out and touch Catherine's hand with my own.

"If I had to guess, Catherine has spent years preparing for me to come crashing down from heaven. My upbringing absolutely did not prepare me with the sorts of general knowledge I need embarrassingly often to even understand what people here are talking about. I'm sure that we're all varying degrees of uneasy about her assuming that kind of position and responsibility so young, but I think it's a credit to her and her family that she treats this so seriously."

Catherine looks down at her plate and blushes almost orange pink, but she is smiling.

"So, then have I inherited Cedric as a foe?"

Ran shakes her head. "Probably not. He honestly spends more time here then in Horizon, and at least pretends to regard Night London as an youthful indiscretion rather than a thwarted ambition.

"He has distanced himself from Entropy, and therefore the majority of the Vampire Princes, so even if he still has political ambitions he might be at least an ally of convenience, depending on your desires.

"But you would want to talk to the Susonov about that they are easily the most powerful family in Fortitude politically, and second only to the Vasili magically. The largest too, for a philosophy that renounces worldly pleasure they sure have a lot of kids." Ran continues with a hint of bitterness.

"One of the boy's will come around. Or you could retire for a while, spy on a cute boy. Mom and big sis can handle the family business." Orange says sighing. "We don't need to be a big family the way the Susonov are."

Ran still looks upset, which seems to set off Agatha. " Don't you glare at me. Just because your pools don't like how semen tastes doesn't mean you can use my uterus or my husband as breeding stock. If you want to make your precious heir you can be the one to have to pee every two hours, and no it is not okay to try and set up /my husband/ with his cousin."

Catherine and Aegon are covering their ears and screwing shut their eyes looks of disgust on their faces.

I ask "What do uteri and semen have to do with meditating? And shouldn't a family that is good at meditating be good at making children? That's how I made my voices. ."

Catherine hits her face against the table and moans.

"Doesn't that hurt?" I continue.

"I just wanted a nice and simple dinner. To show off my girlfriend slash goddess. ."

> _

uteri and semen are...critical components for how mortals reproduce. They cannot, however, create new voices by meditation.

>Is it normal for a high school to be more dangerous than a sailing trip?
...not typically, no. I mean, even routine sailing carries some intrinsic risk, while schools are supposed to be safe places where people can learn. Not that they always are safe, in all times and places. And even when they're physically secure, there can be mental / social / physiological hazards that can be quite serious (if often under-appreciated).

>Mom's stories about Odysseus made the latter sound like a big deal.
The Odyssey describes a situation significantly more dangerous than you're likely to find in most schools. It takes 10 years to complete, and all but one member of the crew perishes.

>What do uteri and semen have to do with meditating?
Mortals don't need to meditate to reproduce, even if it would probably help if more of them thought about what they were doing before doing it.

It's less a mental act and more a physical one. Parts produced by both partners have to be physical combined, the life formed need a place to grow and prepare before it can enter the world... it's a fairly involved process.

>I just wanted a nice and simple dinner. To show off my girlfriend slash goddess
(Just talking to her, not to the table). Well, isn't it maybe a good sign they're okay falling back on what sounds like an old argument? You know, instead of being upset about me. Us.

(I'm kind of assuming the conversation is ongoing, and we can have a momentary aside with her. It's a little harder to say "hey, you're not mad at me!" when someone is listening to you, since it tends to piss them off, and remind them of why they thought they should be, make them think you don't have the right to judge that, etc).

The fellow voices seem to have covered the most simple description of how human reproduction works; I'll just add that there is lots of ritual and cultural significance involved with mate selection for one thing, and that the anatomy involved in reproduction can also be used non-reproductively for... entertainment, religious, business and other reasons as well.

"I'm sorry, I seem to have triggered an argument; possibly Entropy is watching and affecting things here because I mentioned his name. Is this salvageable with a change of topic? If local matters are a little too sensitive to talk about perhaps Heaven or Outside would be a less upsetting choice?"

Oh, and one last thing about human mating: Assume all of it is not a topic for polite discussion unless otherwise directed. Many of the most offensive curses and insults are rooted in the details of mating and sexual anatomy.

Geeminee. I'm starting to feel like I gonna need some kind of chart to keep track of all the issues the Kichis have going.

File it away, I guess. There's worries about finding a suitable heir, now that Catherine's been called to another purpose, and those worries are enough to create some significant turmoil. We'll need to think more deeply about what - if anything - can be done there.

>>576785
Where are you getting this "Entropy watching and affecting" thing? Stress and awkward family arguments don't have to be anything else than just that.

Although I do think we should change the subject (and our lack of immediate knowledge about hoochie-coochie has probably stolen the spotlight enough to do it). Maybe instead of suggesting such an incredibly vague topic as "Heaven" or "the Outside", we could ask about Big Lake and what makes it so dangerous. Sailing's risky, sure, but it sounds like there's more going on there.

Do you mean Big Lake, or School? Because Grandmother Hikari said that School was more dangerous then Big Lake.

>>576825
>Where are you getting this "Entropy watching and affecting" thing? Stress and awkward family arguments don't have to be anything else than just that.
They don't, and I don't think it is, but part of being a polite conversationalist is to overlook/excuse the faults of your company. Therefore the Kichi family lacking self-control and descending into private-argument bickering in front of a goddess isn't their fault. Since it isn't their fault my idea was to give them a flimsy excuse they can agree with (instead of admitting fault) and then we can move the conversation past their faux pas. (I am assuming we haven't moved past it yet because Catherine is busy banging her head on the table and complaining about it.)

The local hazards of sailing is possibly another viable topic change except we don't know if Ran has her eye on, or a vendetta with, one of the sailors or captains for whatever reason: The running theme of the evening so far has been her failure to be reasonable and graceful about the things that bother her. Because of that I was charting the widest possible course around the things we could reasonably imagine she'd have outstanding issues with. It might be that even picking topics that I expect to be personally distant won't work though; who knows what interactions a seer may have with Outside or Heaven?

>>576836
>Do you mean Big Lake, or School? Because Grandmother Hikari said that School was more dangerous then Big Lake.
This seems like a more interesting topic than most and we already know that the other people at the table are collectively suspicious of Entropy and his school (now that the two students have excused themselves and left) so we could do worse than asking what the problems are with his school: It seems that Ran and Angela enjoy complaining so giving them a different topic to complain about may work here. They might even know something worth hearing.
I was assuming that she was being figurative or exaggerating, but if she isn't we really need to know about that.

>>576825
>>576888
I'm afraid I would have to side with the point of view that blaming Entropy is a little weird. Horizon's influence could be blamed for Abronychus and Abydos' perception of Soun, and how they reacted to our criticism of / distaste for him, and entropy to the degree he's responsible for Horizon / requiring people go to school there. But blaming him for the argument about family politics seems a stretch.

Maybe it might work, if it's half in jest?

Honestly though, I kind of see the fact that they're squabbling in front of us as a positive sign. That kind of suggests a certain level of comfort and familiarity, and it also means the problem / danger we presented initially isn't dominating their attention.

>>576921
>I'm afraid I would have to side with the point of view that blaming Entropy is a little weird.
That's fair, but I already explained why I came up with that specific idea and why it's necessary to do something to help our hosts break out of bickering without admitting that they were being bad hosts. Come up with better if you think we should do better.

"Well you should really ask your. .um. Well .." Orange says hesitantly.

Agatha looks exasperated "For goodness sakes it's just biology. Look I'll have to get you some books, but male mammals have a penis that gets hard and then goes in the female's vagina. Then semen comes out of the penis and goes past the cervix into the uterus where it might meet an egg, and fertilize it and then if everything goes right the woman is pregnant and 9 months later give or take a baby comes out. And it hurts like Hell and you won't sleep for years, so if you just want to have fun, come talk to me and I'll set you up."

"Aunty!" Catherine says. "I'm not going to get her pregnant."

"Look I'm not going to judge. Besides you're young yet."

"We're both girls!"

"Yeah, well, things happen." Agatha says looking meaningfully at Yukari, who looks rather ashamed.

I still don't think I really understand this reproduction stuff. It's not like what Mom talked about at all. Then again maybe making a god is different from making a mortal. Angels don't have parents anyway. .

Yukari angrily says "It needed to happen. And Catherine was about as far from an accident as you can get. Neither of you really get how the pools work."

"Yeah not making me feel better about one of my kids learning to seer." Agatha replies.

Before they can get back into their augment I try and distract them. "Is School really that dangerous?"

Everyone at the table looks at me, and says, "Yes."

Agatha elaborates "Riders and vampires teach. Ogres and automatons attend, along with the children of dragons and giants.

"Students come back changed, with stars in their eyes, or stitches on their necks. Sometimes they leave for the Bleak Academy. And sometimes they don't come back at all. It is said that Ogre-sensei eats those who go missing in her class, but honestly we don't know.

"Don't get noticed. The faculty can and will test you to destruction, and vampires are petty and brutal in their politics. Teachers pets go on to greatness or destruction.

"And either way.. their family suffers."

"I mean most people get through it okay. Mostly, and something about it seems to work..." Agatha says gesturing vaguely

"If the school is that dangerous why do people still send their children to be students there?"

"Because Lord Entropy wills it, and it is the only real school around. My grand children are better educated then I was, and have learned how to be safe. Not that we don't worry, but there is no where that is perfectly safe." Hikari replies.

(Ran's the one we talked with outside last time, right?).

>sex stuff
Pff. I like it that we were the ones to showed restraint. No wonder Catherine is mortified.

>I still don't think I really understand this reproduction stuff.
It's okay. You really don't need to, right now. We'll make sure you know what's what if and when it becomes relevant.

>things between girls happen
>Yukari, totally not an accident
Sounds like the story of how Catherine came to be is an interesting one. ...still, she's embarrassed enough, I think, without you asking questions about her conception. We'll leave that stone unturned.

>the school, danger
Well, more hazards than I would have initially guessed. Still, if 'normal' people have learned ways to make it through safe, there's hope for you, I suppose. Although you might well attract more of the wrong kind of attention than a fisherman's child, too.

Makes me wonder about the advantages of starting our own clique, as an attempt to make a safer space for some of the students. That would definitely put us on other people's radar though, would likely take more effort that just seeing yourself though, and if that puts us at opposition to other forces, we're not necessarily improving anything for anyone (front lines in a revolution and all). Maybe a better strategy is just to be the lightning rod, diverting attention?

Dunno. Really not sure how best to approach that all, yet.

(Ran's the one we talked with outside last time, right?). 

(Yes)

Oh! Wait. If he forces everyone to go, that means Catherine is going to be attending school at the same time as you. I didn't even think of that before. That's... going to make things interesting. (Especially since then we don't even get a choice about forming a clique- since she's going to default to worshiping you).

>(Especially since then we don't even get a choice about forming a clique- since she's going to default to worshiping you).
We're driving around a goddess here, at what point did you imagine she was going to be able to 'hide in a crowd' when she makes her own spotlights?

The point about being on the hook for scaring away anybody that would consider messing with Catherine is worth considering though; we're going to have to learn to project some awe and/or menace. Those are pretty useful general skills for a goddess anyhow so they should've already been on the to-do list. It could be asserted that we've been doing an embarrassingly meek version of failing to project awe at this dinner table even.

Can we get a chart of the dramatis personae of this dinner-theatre play? A chart of names and details matched up to position on the family tree would help me make sense of what's going on here.

I also considered for a moment just grabbing Catherine and disappearing quietly while they bicker at the table, but that would be a poor choice from a long-term perspective. I'm caught in between noticing that the Kichi family doesn't solidly respect each other and the base assumption of how diplomacy works as a matter of being respectful to everyone present and their point of view.

>>577197
No, hiding in the crowd was never really an option. But having an actual devotee along for the ride does define our role for us, and close off some options. (Say, if we're our own clique, we can't choose to join another that might have been a socially or politically easier path. It could also limit to what extent or in what way we play the monster among monsters role if we're being watched by someone we don't want to see as a monster. And then there's a whole level of added complexity as to how Horizon might affect her, and how we are an influence on that). We're kind of locked into a... leadership / protector / challenger role?

>>577218
Focus, focus, we're at a dinner table with a bickering family. Two members of this family have already walked off when we admitted our suspicions about someone we caught using glamour and the rest seem to be prone to worry and/or bickering over the issues of 'an heir' for the family.

At this point we could try going for broke and asking what they need and what they want in someone who is supposed to be an heir to the Kichi legacy.

Yeah. .I.. should I ask about that?

>>577272
We offended two of the younger generation by inadvertently badmouthing someone they look up to / have been brainwashed by. Honestly, annoying teenage boys ain't a big issue.

As to the issue of the family bickering- Catherine is obviously mortified, but how we read it is more complicated. On the one hand, I've suggested it might be a good thing (showing they've let down their guard to some degree, and if they can be distracted by old arguments, they aren't as focused on Jasper as a threat or problem as they could be). There's also the suggestion that their divisions makes diplomacy harder for us (fair), or that things are going apart.

>what say
Well, possibly we could comment on realizing we'd be going to school with Catherine? That does sort of turn the conversation back where she wanted it.

>what do they need in an heir / an heir for
Well, that might be useful to know, yes. On the other hand, it does rather suddenly refocus the conversation on us, and that we're taking / repurposing Catherine, who would have been the heir, for our purpose. It's another escalation, but perhaps that's an issue best faced head on?

"So Catherine, we will be going to School at the same time right?" I ask, trying to keep the conversation on what seems like a safer subject.

She nods "Yeah. I think your going to get a lot of attention. The Vampires will probobly stay away from you. They don't much like fire..but they aren't the only monsters, and are not always the worst." She pauses. "Is there anything I should do to prepare. You said you were learning to fence? Should I take up exorcisms or something?"

Suspicious hypothesis to be tested: They are perfectly capable of self-control and they were attempting to emotionally blackmail us into feeling responsible for making sure the Kichi family gets a new heir (or their intended one back).

"I suppose a good place to start is a list of the more common and notable types of non-humans that are likely to be found there. Also, apparently I'm somewhat resistant to glamours but if the very first time I visit that school I encounter one that suggests something about a need for strong mental defenses when attending the school. Why would you think you'd need skill with performing exorcisms though?"

Not liking the implication direct combat will be needed to get through school, but oh well. The whole point of a weapon is to have one when you need it.

>Is there anything I should do to prepare. You said you were learning to fence? Should I take up exorcisms or something?
(Half joking) Well, you'd know better than I what you should be preparing for, shouldn't you?

(Besides the obvious seer reference, their family has a lot more direct knowledge about the school and the potential dangers than you do).

But I mean, if she wants to try and find a way to protect herself, or help us, we'd certainly support that. Not that she has to. ...probably the easiest preparation would be to talk to her older cousins, who've already been. (Maybe we could have her visit Horizon at some point to prepare for that, too. After all, there will come a point you'll have to venture back yourself, and it might be good to have learned to cope with the atmosphere).

>attempting to emotionally blackmail us into feeling responsible for making sure the Kichi family gets a new heir
Jokes on them, then. If Jasper's already committed herself to making this situation right slash just after what happened, then we're pretty much on the hook for that already. Or finding a way to accomplish something equivalent.

Suggestion 2014/06/06(Fri)16:47 No. 577435 ID: 00b2db
File 140209844723.jpg - (13.09KB , 189x267 , Beast.jpg )

> "I suppose a good place to start is a list of the more common and notable types of non-humans that are likely to be found there. Also, apparently I'm somewhat resistant to glamours but if the very first time I visit that school I encounter one that suggests something about a need for strong mental defenses when attending the school. Why would you think you'd need skill with performing exorcisms though?"

"Well, its something Priests do, I guess? But then again I think Sun gods are good at it too." she pauses thinking. "Well lets see. The Vampires have lived in whats now Horizon for about 200 years, mostly immigrating I think, but new teenage vampires do seem to appear somehow, and sometimes people come back from the dead as vampires.

"The Giants them selves are all asleep and for most of their descendants its more an ethnicity/ culture then anything else, there are a fair number of tall and slow and repelled by the Cross and allergic to Iron.

Then there are the part ogre, they stated appearing among the human population after Entropy came here. Big, more wide then tall, strong as he..heck, mean too. The actual Ogre's hatch into humans if you study them, or so people say. It sounds weird to me.

Then there are the Nimblejacks, fast as the ogres are strong, like to play cruel 'jokes', prone to stalk people, but in a mean older sibling way more then romantically. A really mean older sibling.

"There's the Swan People, who used to be able to turn into swans and who are said to have stopped the war because one of them was so pretty that when he liked the clothes a tailor made and asked the Giants to stop killing the humans they listened, and started to sleep. Soun Shounen might be a Swan Person like they used to be long ago, or maybe he is just that cool. I've never met him.

"Oh, um Shop Foxes mostly all live in Arcadia, but they have to go to School just like we do. They are just people with extra Fox Ears and magic for illusions. Some people call them" she pauses "'Reynards', but you shouldn't ever do that. It's really bad, and will make people think you are racist."

"Sometimes Yokai consider them selves the right maturity to have to go to school. Not often, but sometimes. They are all kind of differnt though, the actual races of Yokai were banished or killed by what would (later) become the shrine families."

"Rats get out of having to go some how. Maybe they cut some-sort of deal with Entropy, he seems to approve of their..um..antagonistic worship of the Mysteries, and their shrine family can do some crazy things with singing."

"Any other questions?"

>Not liking the implication direct combat will be needed to get through school, but oh well. The whole point of a weapon is to have one when you need it.
I don't know that it is necessary, but this seems like a reasonable assumption considering what we do know: It's Entropy's school. Even if he wasn't using combat/hazard pedagogically his power seems to come from or be tied to conflict. I'm mildly surprised that he's running a school instead of a gladiatorial training academy and exhibition stadium because of that, but perhaps he knows something about conflict we don't, I'm misunderstanding his focus and power, or there's a lot more to his ambitions for this school than just a manifestation of conflict for him to use and draw power from. (Also we can't rule out that it is instead some combination of those possibilities or that there are other possibilities that belong on the list to be combined with or selected from.)

>Jokes on them, then. If Jasper's already committed herself to making this situation right slash just after what happened, then we're pretty much on the hook for that already. Or finding a way to accomplish something equivalent.
Okay, my perspective here is informed by certain notions of divinity and the divide between the divine and the mortal that may need correcting here Jasper. So please correct this if and where I am wrong. That said:
Frankly, we're doing them great honour and a favour by coming to dinner here and chatting with them instead of commanding them as a deity to mortals.
On general principles it is always supposed to go badly for mortals that try to usurp, show up or trick a deity. This goes double for us because of the Sun's association with sight and revelation: We should be pretty much immune to mortal trickery and if we aren't that's a major blow to our rep in specific and the rep of imperators in general. We'd be letting down the team if they were trying to trick us here and we didn't teach them (and everybody else who ever learns the story) that trying that sort of perversion of the natural order is a bad idea that always costs the mortals more than they are willing to pay as a penalty for their disrespect. It's really not much better if they 'shame us into it' by arguing that we took Catherine from them because that would be implying that the personal, private interest of the Kichi family is as (or more) important as our stake in the common good and the fight of existence versus outside (that is politically hazardous to put it mildly).

"That's somewhere to start I suppose but I don't really get what sort of threat to expect or have to meet at this school: The entire point of a school is to teach people, and corpses don't learn anything. Am I going to be expected to participate in the occasional fist-fight and some academic fencing competitions or do we have to defend ourselves from worse than getting stuffed in a locker, up to and including life and death ambushes? If worst comes to worst for me I just cease my mortal shell and everything around me is incinerated with the heat of the sun, but I can't imagine that's a preferred solution; worse it may happen unintentionally if they sufficiently disrupt my avatar and that would be embarrassing as well as destructive. That wouldn't directly protect you unless we specially set that up, if I'm even around whenever something is threatening you."

PowderedLight 2014/06/06(Fri)21:14 No. 577482 ID: 00b2db
File 140211445826.jpg - (9.34KB , 226x223 , thinking-dork.jpg )

> School instead of Gladiatorial Arena

I am not sure, but I think as I seem to be about the Sun and Hope, Entropy was about Scorn, Murder, and Desecration, and part of what makes something Murder is that its not ..normal? allowed? If that makes sense. And a school kind of sounds like a good place for Scorn to exist.

But I could be confusing him with someone else. Mom had lots and lots of Coworkers, and disliked most of them. I mean even other Angels could piss her off, and the other kinds of Imperators just had fundamentally different forms of morality.

> Okay, my perspective here is informed by certain notions of divinity and the divide between the divine and the mortal that may need correcting here Jasper. So please correct this if and where I am wrong. That said:
Frankly, we're doing them great honour and a favour by coming to dinner here and chatting with them instead of commanding them as a deity to mortals.

Mom and Entropy would agree with you..though deity and Imperator are slightly differnt categories, especial recently with the War occupying most of Imperators' time and attention, dealing with earth directly was usually given to special servants (usual empowered humans), that were also used as body guards.

And being known to mortals was usually more trouble then it was worth as it would confuse Earth or something?

But that aside, yeah, both Mom and Entropy would agree with you about dealing with humans. I mean mom would make fun of Imperators that lowered themselves to even commanding humans. Sometimes I thought she found even me kind of gross/disappointing. Actually not sometimes..a lot of the time. I mean I can try to follow Heaven but I will never be a creature _of_ Heaven* the way even the worse Devils are. I..I might if I had grown up and won something big in the war I maybe would be allowed to visit but not too stay.

(OOC I have screwed up a few times and called Jasper's home Heaven, but it should really be called Celestia, even if the English word "Heaven" is ambiguous and could refer to either.)

I..I don't really want to be a Deity to these people though. I'd rather be their friend. Which maybe proves that Heaven is right about me. Wow..I.. I didn't think I could get upset about things anymore, because..because mom being dead was _so_ bad..so horrible everything else seemed so small. But I care about these people and I care about what Heaven thinks of me.

It hurts.

On the third hand Entropy loved to punish servants of Imperators for loving* humans, or letting humans get one over them. So he would also agree with your view on Divinity, even if I as a fellow Imperator are not actually subject to his laws.

* Mom thought this was rather evil, as love was one of the best things about humans, and almost all former Humans did actually love someone, (such as their parents). So all it did was make them hate him, and scorn the Laws. Of course given that he is the Imperator of Scorn, that could have been the point?

> "That's somewhere to start I suppose but I don't really get what sort of threat to expect or have to meet at this school: The entire point of a school is to teach people, and corpses don't learn anything. Am I going to be expected to participate in the occasional fist-fight and some academic fencing competitions or do we have to defend ourselves from worse than getting stuffed in a locker, up to and including life and death ambushes? If worst comes to worst for me I just cease my mortal shell and everything around me is incinerated with the heat of the sun, but I can't imagine that's a preferred solution; worse it may happen unintentionally if they sufficiently disrupt my avatar and that would be embarrassing as well as destructive. That wouldn't directly protect you unless we specially set that up, if I'm even around whenever something is threatening you."

"Yeah, school is going to suck, and..maybe? Probably. Just not..not all the time? But enough that you should always worry. The visons I've had are more about things that could threaten you, so mundane murder attempts don't even show up. Still..I should be easy to kill..and I dying would screw things up..um. I think sometimes I forget how dangerous the world can be outside of Fortitude. Maybe we should work on a way you can protect me? Its supposed to be something gods can do."

Aw, no half-joke.

>Frankly, we're doing them great honour and a favour by coming to dinner here and chatting with them instead of commanding them as a deity to mortals.
I'd see that as taking a pretty narrow view, based simply on who and what we are. It assumes right and wrong are dictated purely by position. That as a god we are entitled to take what we want from these people, and expect them to praise us and thank us and serve us for it. That what we do is by definition good, because we are a god.

But... Jasper has a strong personal connection with the idea of justice. A sense that right and wrong exist independently, and are not purely defined by her actions. That her choices have consequences, and she needs to work towards what is just. That she is, in fact, a personal with moral obligations. God or not.

In that context, these are people we have imposed ourself on, and done an injury to, even though not by our choosing. We therefore have an obligation to make that right. This isn't a great honor we've bestowing on them- it's a courtesy, an a first step towards healing / recompense / cooperation. It's no less than they deserve.

>I think I kind of owe them a lot. I'll have to see about what I can do to make it right. Make it Just.

Meaning yes, if we've taken an heir from them, we'll need to find a way to make up for that. Perhaps literally, perhaps in some other way.

tl;dr- our personal obligations outweigh our deific deference.


>I..I don't really want to be a Deity to these people though. I'd rather be their friend.
Personally, I'm proud of you for that. Power is an easy thing to be seduced by, and I'm glad you want people in your life more than you want power over them.

Treat people as you feel is right, and don't worry about the disapproval of others.

And you need friends and allies more than you need worshipers, anyways. People who can teach you, challenge you, help you grow and learn, aid you.

>Still..I should be easy to kill..and I dying would screw things up..um.
>Maybe we should work on a way you can protect me?
...yes, protecting her is definitely something we should find a way to do. Especially if her association with makes her into a target.

Hrm.

My thought here is going to be a little rambly. But for what it's worth: the world we are living in is not the world that we were living in before everything fell apart. A dynasty has been shattered, a war has ended. The only guy we know who is on the level Mom was is Entropy and he's running a school and lording it over a bunch of mortal kids. And his son may be on our level but he's also just as much of a kid as us.

Now, if Grand Booger Rex Mundi wants to keep the old order going in his own little curated slice of Town by - as mentioned - lording it over a bunch of mortal kids, well, he's all about Scorn so it's a bit petty but not surprising. But we don't have to, and honestly at this point it doesn't make a lot of sense, whatever the mythological frameworks say. Aside from wanting to be a friend to folks rather than a glorious and terrible divinity, there's so much we don't know, so much more growing we still have to do, and commanding from a position of ignorance is first-order folly, goddess or no goddess. On top of that, we're also living in a place where putting up walls of isolation doesn't work really anyways.

In the end, I think it's better to work under the assumption that peoples is peoples, and their royal lineage is only as relevant as peoples decides to make it.

>But I care about these people and I care about what Heaven thinks of me.
From what we've heard so far, it sounds like Heaven's standards are pretty high.

Remember: nobody actually fit in Procrustes's bed. Improvement is good - to grow and to become better than you were is good - but it's okay to be, today, someone who doesn't perfectly meet any given judgmental set of standards, even if those standards came from the Angels.

>Maybe we should work on a way you can protect me?
>...yes, protecting her is definitely something we should find a way to do. Especially if her association with makes her into a target.
Might be useful in a more general sense, if Catherine and us end up attracting more friends and hangers-on.

I hope we're not a problem for any nice vampires. That'd get ugly fast.

>I mean I can try to follow Heaven but I will never be a creature _of_ Heaven the way even the worse Devils are.

From what you've shared so far the opinions of the angels sound strikingly prejudiced if they condemn you for your origin instead of your actions. If there's more to their rejection than that my analysis may need revision, but I'm in no hurry to give the benefit of the doubt to people that condemn you for doctrinal reasons. Aside from that they seem to be an important part of creation whether they're intolerant assholes or not: We need to understand them better, and probably to communicate with them better, to achieve common interests and avoid unnecessary/unproductive conflict.

>But... Jasper has a strong personal connection with the idea of justice. A sense that right and wrong exist independently, and are not purely defined by her actions. That her choices have consequences, and she needs to work towards what is just. That she is, in fact, a personal with moral obligations. God or not.

I don't disagree with the idea of moral obligations at all, and I am not disposed to supporting the idea of might makes right either. I am making the point that a focus on doing 'what's right for the Kichi family' comes at the cost of focus on 'what's right for Fortitude,' or even against 'what's right for existence.' Let's call larger-scale effects like that Stalin-scale.

I'm not comfortable with this perspective and I don't like it: I name it after the (arguable) worst monster of human history from Earth. That said, the effects of our actions can and will be measured in millions of lives (or more) protected, improved and enabled if we rise to the challenge. I don't know how to reconcile the responsibilities inherent in this ability to do good on the Stalin-scale with the principle of, 'First do no harm.' I also don't have any good answers for the Kichi family conflict we've stumbled into. The implied 'easy way' is 'releasing Catherine,' but this is a non-starter. We don't know if that's even possible, or if it would actually be better on either the Kichi-scale or the Stalin-scale if we did: Even if there were no direct risks or harms involved Catherine has been talking about threats to us. I'd assume something dangerous enough to seriously threaten us would be capable of harming or destroying Fortitude as well; that suggests that releasing Catherine would be a bad choice on the Stalin-scale and may not be a positive for the Kichi family either.

Assuming that we accept responsibility for the Kichi family heir becoming our priestess (which is arguable because we don't remember causing that to happen) can you come up with a solution that wouldn't cost as much as doing something more important? If we're talking about altering fate we could probably use the same effort either to help more people than just the Kichi family or to help people with a worse problem. In that case I would challenge that, with all else being roughly equal, it's wrong to choose the lesser good over the greater good.

Let's keep talking about defense and security with Catherine while the bickering continues, maybe the rest of the family will pay attention and add something constructive:
"I'm not sure how to solve that problem yet. Two things to do are learn more about the problem and do things that are likely to be part of the eventual solution. A possibility that would be a little of both is to test our ability to physically and mentally defend ourselves. That kind of testing probably would help us become more prepared for the hazards of attending Entropy's school directly, as well as hopefully showing us things we could easily improve. Where I'm lost is picking a good way to get that kind of testing: Do we ask the rats for a combat trial or a quest, or ask someone else, or seek something other than a quest or a trial?
"It's also important to accept that no security is absolute and that worrying about it won't solve anything. Security is always a trade-off between how bad the risks are and what you're willing to do about them. There is such a thing as too safe--for instance staying home instead of going to Entropy's school, although perhaps we can find a better option for education. That's worth looking into maybe, but I'm in no hurry to accept the invitation I got in the mail to go to Bleak Academy."

>>577684
>paragraphs 2-4
...sorry to dismiss it so simply, but I think most of that is besides the point! And fairly hyperbolic.

No, we're not releasing Catherine. Not because of hypothetical super-moral justifications of the possible dire long-term consequences. But simply because that was never our choice to make, if we even have the power to turn her away at all.

And yes, while we may not have caused this deliberately or by choice, we've still had an impact on these people. We're a flame, and we can burn without malice or intent. But we're not an unthinking fire, and we've chosen to hold ourself accountable. Jasper made a choice to try and make things right.

Do I know how we will accomplish that right now? No, but that's besides the point.

Are we going to prioritizing this to the extent that we allow disastrous consequences to befall ourselves, Fortitude, existence, etc? No, because that wouldn't be right either. That's also beside the point, though.

The point I was trying to make, very simply, was that effort on their part to emotionally blackmail or manipulate us into remedying this situation is wasted or unnecessary if we've already decided we're going to try and do that. The end.

tl;dr- you're really blowing a response to "ha, well we were already gonna help them with that" out of proportion. :V

>but I'm in no hurry to accept the invitation I got in the mail to go to Bleak Academy
I'm really not sure that's a good road to take, here. Challenging Entropy over attending his school seems like it would invite a disproportionate response. That whatever we gain by keeping ourself out would be more than offset by putting ourselves at odds with him. Especially if we try to keep Catherine out too- then we don't simply have to keep her protected at school, we would have to keep her, and likely her family, safe from reprisal against a very powerful enemy I doubt we're prepared to deal with.

Although I suppose Entropy versus the school is a good example of trying to balance or manage risk.

Also to be considered for defense and security- we don't yet fully understand all our abilities, and maybe more to the point here, what our ability / power might be able to do through Catherine, or interact with her. And also- we don't know what risk or danger there is in that. Giving our shine maiden enough juice to protect herself doesn't do much good if we fry her in the process.

>...sorry to dismiss it so simply, but I think most of that is besides the point! And fairly hyperbolic.
I suspect that if you dismiss my point about how applying imperator level fate power to this situation can backfire, fail, or just not be worth it in too many ways to count I didn't explain it clearly enough. It's isn't an urgent topic though, so we can come back to it later.

Yes, mentioning Bleak Academy was meant as a comparison option to remind Catherine that even though she's worried about Horizon it's not that bad. It hasn't killed her cousins, and they aren't too worried about it either it seems, so while it may be prudent to do some preparation it isn't worth losing sleep over.
And I mentioned testing right? We want the testing so that we know what Catherine and Jasper are each capable of without choking or exploding, and we want to know what they can already handle or handle with a bit more equipment and effort. Priestesss channeling ability should be on the test unless it's something she should really take a six week course on first before trying it in the field.
With that explained, I'm not sure if you were suggesting any particular changes to what I was proposing we should say.

Hikari and Catherine walk me home as we talk about little things. Like what the weather here is like, and where the various families of Fortitude are from. I talk a bit about Celestia and the ministers, and sword practice and wrestling mom and watching Snow White.

It's. . It's nice.

It should be distracting to have you all arguing in the back of my mind. . But it's not. It's nice too.

Holding Catherine's hand in the Simi lit dark as I start to get sleepy. I kind of think you are both right.

At the door Catherine wants to kiss me. But I don't think I'm ready yet. I do give her a tight hug before her grandmother escorts get away.

Ashley was there to tuck me in.

>It should be distracting to have you all arguing in the back of my mind. . But it's not. It's nice too.
Well, that comes as somewhat as a relief, but I still feel like I should be apologizing for that. We shouldn't let ourselves get sidetracked arguing philosophy or big picture when you need us in the moment.

>At the door Catherine wants to kiss me. But I don't think I'm ready yet. I do give her a tight hug
Well handled, I think. You need to move at the pace you feel comfortable at, and you can't let her rush either (for both emotional and not-getting-incinerated reasons).

Goodnight, Jasper.

Most of the truly difficult arguments are the ones where both sides are right: I suspect that as an Imperator you'll encounter very many of those, perhaps more of them than you notice.
At least you're the sun, so you can illuminate anything that isn't clear enough. We should practice doing that figuratively/metaphysically, shining the light of revelation upon falsehood and other manipulation is a very handy trick indeed.

Goodnight Jasper, and because I have a tendency of getting distracted at times good morning for later if I forget to say it on time.

I need a counter part to Jasper for a Black* Arc. They should proBobly have a relationship to some concept that is a counter to Hope in the same way Reason, Duty, Justice, Anger and Hate are counters to Love.

That is unless Jasper is actually on a Green Arc.

Which might work better for how we have been playing her/her situation.

Though explicitly preparing for her sister would be yellow.

Bah. This deciding after wards isn't really right. ..

Sunday Suggestion 2014/06/13(Fri)09:56 No. 578452 ID: 908033
File 140267856229.jpg - (360.41KB , 862x557 , Myth.jpg )

The next day I go to the Vasili temple and watch their show. It's a strange one, about Mom and her sister-wife the Moon telling a mortal President of treachery, of the great wolves that chase through the sky and shall catch them if he does not hide the world from their sight.

Only then it is revealed that the Moon has turned traitor and the Sun was an imposter, the Deceiver Ioloithe Septimain*, Who Turned the Seas to Salt, from the way the crowd reacted we are supposed to know who she is already. She then has her apprentice steal the Sun’s Mirror Shield turning it around so that the earth is doubly heated, and the seas rise.

And then wolves which are towers cover the world in ice? And it is implied that my existence some how prevented all of this?

I..I don’t understand.

>Mom and her sister-wife the Moon
She had a sister-wife? And an ex-wife in hell you mentioned before, and then your father...

*cough* Mom got around, it would seem.

>I..I don’t understand.
Yeah, sorry, I can't quite puzzle that myth out myself. Even if the audience knows who she is, I'm drawing as much a blank as you on Ioloithe. Salting the ocean might imply some connection with the earth? Rivers collect salts and stuff from the ground they run through, and it all eventually ends in the ocean.

Towers covering the world in ice sounds like glaciers, but that would be associated with the world cooling, not warming. Maybe the myth describes or tries to explain the prehistoric changes in the world's climate?

Then there's the fact we don't know if this myth is the kind based in truth or that's just a myth.

Well the story explicitly didn't happen. If I understand the start and end right it's saying it would have happened but didn't?

The towers were also called Mushroom Clouds, and were going to cool the world? Only if they didn't happen mom's mirror was going make the ocean boil up onto the land? The Mirror was named Atmosphere which I think is the prosaic name for the Lower Sky, the place that bordered Celestia on the ground side.

A Deceiver is an kind of Rider, and I think maybe the black eye liner the actor wore was supposed to symbolize the kind of eyes my Father and Sister have?
I asked about Ms. Septimain and people shivered and said I should talk to the Titovs.

> She had a sister-wife? And an ex-wife in hell you mentioned before.

Might be the same person. Devils do sometimes get allowed up if they are willing to serve in the War. Especially places like Earth where the local Imperators are relatively hostile to Heaven.

So maybe if Dad wasn't around they got back together?

With the clarification from your additional details this sounds like a chapter in Earth history. I could explain further or I could point you at information dense, and subtopic dense, main terms of 'Cold War' 'Anthropocentric Global Warming' 'Thermonuclear Weapons' 'Fallout' and 'Malthusian Catastrophe' if you'd like to know about them.
I'd expect my perspective on the matter to be different from yours, because subjectively I experience continuity with a person from Earth during a time when the crises you describe are well-known threats. Specifically greed, division and a division between the people who make the decisions and who suffer the worst negative effects from those decisions are how I understood these threats becoming serious. This disconnected leadership in governance and industry endangered the ability of Earth to remain habitable to humans in many different ways at once due to growing mastery of the forces of nature (through mathematics, science and engineering) without a similarly-advancing standard of general responsibility.

If anything I'm a bit underwhelmed that they didn't take particular note of the sun visiting their religious observance about the sun. Are you the only power which is the sun currently? Also, I am very much interested in the rest of what these people have to teach about the sun since it's probably applicable to you in one way or another. If you can obtain a copy of their rites and lore regaring the sun that should make interesting and possibly useful reading.

Oh. that makes more sense. It's not a prehistory, it's a post history. A possible end of days.

The atmosphere is the air around a world. Messing with that could affect how much heat a world absorbs or retains from its sun.

Mushroom clouds are the disctinctive marker of a nuclear explosion, made by splitting the smallest pieces of matter to release the energy inside. A big enough blast could throw up enough debris in the air to block the sun- which I guess in this story they tried in order to try and cool things down when they were being roasted. Describing them as wolves in the sky sort of makes sense, as they're weapons that can fly.

As for a rider... if this is a story about the end of the world, there are traditionally 4 riders associated with that. War, death, famine, pestilence.

And if there getting back together might have triggered this, I suppose it makes more sense how your birth prevented it.

The four horsemen of the apocalypse are described in the 'Christian' religious work from Earth known as The Book of Revelations, and are a significant part of the Christian prophecies of the end of the world. Their identities are not declared aside from the one named Death, the two of the others that are most certain are 'War' with the red horse and great sword, and 'Famine' with the black horse and the scales. The first rider released, on the white horse, has been argued to be Pestilence or the Antichrist, but there is significant disagreement about the interpretation.

If the specifics of Christian religious text describing the end of the world are relevant here as more than just a fictional story I would be alarmed. We need to improve our talent with foresight both mystic and otherwise post-haste; where did the Vasili even get this story from?

>>578493
>>578585
I think the Riders are something else than that. References:
>>/questarch/565309
>>577048

>>578598
Oh, good catch.

Hmm. Catherine mentions Riders teaching at the school, but she doesn't mention them in her later post explaining about species and monsters. Does that mean you're already familiar with what they are, Jasper?

I think it's how people talk about Excrusians, the people my dad lead, or at least helped lead. Mom would call groups of them Ridings of Excrusians. In their native forms they have eyes of night with falling stars. That's what I think the actor's black eyeshadow is symbolizing.
But Deceiver are different from Warmains, I think it's kind of like True Gods being different from Angels.

>eyes of night with falling stars
Oh. I wonder, is that what your eyes look like when you go cold?

No actually. It's interesting. They turn silver and deep deep blue, like when the stars first start appearing in the sky.

This discussion is theologically and cosmologically fascinating: It implies that the Excrusians have a place within creation. I find that incredibly interesting because figuring out what that place was would help us troubleshoot the divide between creation and outside to benefit both sides better. Clearly there are details about that Jasper the Imperator knows that the advisors she has created/summoned into her mind don't. Having a better grasp on that information, and understanding the nature of our presence within Jasper are both topics that are probably quite important as well.

I did ask about the Vasili scripture is though, and I'm also interested in this question of a divide/difference between yourself and what they are observing/relating to when they perform these rites about the sun. We are here, at an appropriate time and place to begin researching what the sun means to the rest of the world. From the morality play, and our subsequent interpretation of it, the sun likely has a connection to fusion power (the heart of the sun) and that basically implies that you may have more difficulty not annihilating Fortitude than we have previously been aware of.

> It implies that the Excrucians have a place within creation.

How so?

> From the morality play, and our subsequent interpretation of it, the sun likely has a connection to fusion power (the heart of the sun) and that basically implies that you may have more difficulty not annihilating Fortitude than we have previously been aware of.

Might be mom's thing too. I mean I think she was more of a Warrior then I will be, or at least I kind of hope so, though I think you are right about it being connected to me. I think its my stomach more then my “heart” at least if you mean the organ not just “center”.

> I did ask about the Vasili scripture is though, and I'm also interested in this question of a divide/difference between yourself and what they are observing/relating to when they perform these rites about the sun.

Okay, not sure they noticed me in the audience today, there was a lot of people. I’m going to go talk to the priestesses, but its going to be a little while as there's a bit of an line.

Should be plenty of time for you to talk to me.

>>578657
Hmm. That is interesting.

>less of a warrior
We can hope.

>I’m going to go talk to the priestesses
I assume we're still not deliberately revealing ourselves, right? There's the chance she might recognize you, and that might be interesting, but we're primarily here to learn and make contacts and see what happens.

What I meant by, "A place in creation," is that there is obviously an assigned role for the Excrusians in the end of the world, but there's less obviously a role for outside within creation or creation within outside. Figuring out the core of those interactions and arranging them better may help to prevent/discourage further conflict.

I guess it makes sense that you'd think of fusion as your stomach. What I meant by 'the heart of the sun' was the process deep inside where hydrogen fuses into helium, creating the vast pressure of energy in the form of heat/EM that prevents the sun from collapsing, heats things enough to continue the fusion process and provides exceedingly large amounts of radiant energy. Since it's busy devouring hydrogen I suppose it would be a stomach of sorts, although I called it the heart because it is generally understood to be at the center. I've never really considered the details of anthropomorphising a star before... they blaze too hot and are too large to fit in the human scale generally.

It's hard to come up with a single, good answer for what to ask you about Jasper. 'What are Imperators?' 'What are Excrusians?' 'How many Imperators are there?' 'What does Heaven do?' 'What do you want to be?'

Reply PowderedLight 2014/06/15(Sun)21:59 No. 578793 ID: b14727
File 140289476445.jpg - (10.72KB , 195x258 , lists.jpg )

> It implies that the Excrucians have a place within creation.

How so?

> From the morality play, and our subsequent interpretation of it, the sun likely has a connection to fusion power (the heart of the sun) and that basically implies that you may have more difficulty not annihilating Fortitude than we have previously been aware of.

Might be mom's thing too. I mean I think she was more of a Warrior then I will be, or at least I kind of hope so, though I think you are right about it being connected to me. I think its my stomach more then my “heart” at least if you mean the organ not just “center”.

> I did ask about the Vasili scripture is though, and I'm also interested in this question of a divide/difference between yourself and what they are observing/relating to when they perform these rites about the sun.

Okay, not sure they noticed me in the audience today, there was a lot of people. I’m going to go talk to the priestesses.

---------

Well I know what mom told me about how things were, not how they are now. And I forget or get confused about things a lot, so I don’t know how right this is, but I will try.

And sometimes dad told me things that didn't really fit with what mom said. I don't think on purpose he would tell me to ask mom on almost everything.

Except archery. Even mom agreed he knew archery way better then she did. He was a better swordsman too, but more from being faster/stronger then from knowing swords.

> What are Imperators?

They are..Important. That's not a very good answer.

The world has layers. Had layers.

Viewpoints, maybe is a better word?

The world of math and things that aren't people, the world humans live in. That Fortitude resembles, but isn't. Is the top layer, the most fragile, a dream of Gaia she dreams to forget guilt, a shade from heaven for the True Gods and the Devils. A tool for human mastery and foolishness, favored by The Light, and The Dark respectively.

Below that, the natural level for my home. Is the Border Mythic, where the wind is the voice of my mothers Ministers, and everything is a person if you look hard enough, and you can find roads to everywhere.

And then the spirits melt into one another, becoming fingers or teeth or saliva of the great spirits, and above them the Imperators. Thats the deep Mythic.

Below that was the Spirit Realm where the War Burned hottest, and the Imperators could best the Excrucians easily.

There the Imperators are like crystal snakes of every color, wrapping around, and a light shines through them, and is colored by their bodies and their motion, becoming all Creation.

Mother said that the light is Heaven, but other imperators would disagree.

There are 6 kinds of Imperators that come and fight for Earth:

Four that exist across the Tree, who come to earth to fight, or to live.

Angels like mother, born hearing the Voice of Cneph, of Heaven in their souls, come here to spread Justice and Beauty.

Devils, Fallen Angels, who worship the altar that is Hell, who stood up to Heaven and said, ‘We have no right to impose Our Justice, we should listen to their uglyness, their wickedness, their suffering, fight the voice of Cneph, and live out His creation’. Who even when let out of Hell, burn with their own personal suffering.

Serpents, the Children of the Ash, great monsters too big to exist in Prosaic Reality, they serve not Justice, or Suffering, but the Tree itself, and Peace. They are strong but slow and philosophical and hedonistic. More interested in being than doing.

Then there is the Magisters of the Wild, the Wildlords. Beings that say they came from the Lands Beyond, but found themselves trapped in this world. They fight for Freedom, for the right to live by your own rules. And they do not let the Excrucians pull them ‘free’. Things from beyond creation usual end up either of the Wild or the Excrucians. Perhaps those are the only ways Creation can understand them?

And Three kinds that are native to the Earth:

True gods of the Earth. What I think I am now. Primordial beings, who are the substance of this world. They..Us I guess..are not supposed to be good at boundaries or society..more like ants or computers, or slime molds then what humans would understand. We blur at our edges and are always hungry. Still there is a truce among them, now that the war burns.

The Magisters of the Light, fight for human survival. Not individual humans, but the race itself, they fight for Humans to be careful, to be calm, to be ordered and continuing. Mom says they often seem both naive and ruthless, and have more human blood on their hands than any other. Still humanity lives. Even after the end of the world.

The Magisters of the Dark, they..they are humanity’s foolishness, their power, their ability to reach beyond their grasp. I don’t really understand them. Mom says that she hates them as over ambitious fools that exploit kindness and honor..but respects them because they understand the war better than even Her, and though less powerful than Heaven have defeated more Excrucians.

I haven’t actually met any Imperators of the LIght, Dark or Wild, and know Devils only from reading some parts of Mom’s letters. The Imperator of the Sky was an Serpent. I kind of think Entropy I is an True God? Maybe? Could be an Darklord or a kind of strange Devil.

Wow thats long. Not sure it helped. Any questions?

> 'How many Imperators are there?'

A lot? I mean mom was the Leader for Angels on Earth which implies that there were other Angels on Earth, and Earth is just one breakthrough in the war.

> 'What does Heaven do?'

Mom says that Heaven’s Beauty demands service, and gives gifts. Gifts not earned, gifts not taken. Heaven makes things like Heaven is trying to raise up Creation to its standards, and burn away that which is not.

> ‘What are Excrucians?’

They are those things that come from the Lands Beyond and have allied with one another to destoy the world. I asked Dad once why he fights to end the world. I mean I am in the world I like it. Mom likes it. He likes us..it was confusing. Even with what he did..it still is.

He said he was looking for something. That when he found it he would rend it from Creation and rideout to where he needed it.

It was not a very satisfying answer.

There are 4 kinds of Excrucians:

* Warmains like my father. They are looking for something. Each one a different thing, something can resist them. That can pretend at least to fight against their test and just maybe be strong enough for them to kill and carry with them out of creation.

* Deceivers like Ms. Septimain who say the world is a lie, an illusion we have trapped ourselves in, and claim to have seen through pieces of the Lie and wield those insights against us. They can wrap themselves in another’s soul and use all that beings powers, they are shapeshifters and tricksters and well..we call them Deceivers for a reason.

* Mimics, like the one Dad was going to have teach me to lie. They are Imperators made by the Excrucians from remnants of once they have killed. But..they are Imperators and so they fight the war from within our ranks.

* Strategists, who say that Creation is evil, and have bathed in that evil so they may fight it. They are all dying of something, of apathy, or drowning, or fire, and even small wounds or minor magics accelerate that death..but they come from beyond again and again, dying over and over again. The pull on the anti-nature beyond and make terrible weapons from the worlds of Creation that have fallen.

> 'What do you want to be?'

A good girl? A servant of Heaven? A good friend?

>I kind of think Entropy I is an True God? Maybe?
I wouldn't be surprised. What little we know of him seems to fit your description of a true god, and entropy, the concept, is certainly something significant enough to represented by a god.

You actually don't fit your own description of a true god as well. You do represent a primordial force (or forces), and we've certainly seen your hunger, but you've presented yourself as someone who wants to be understood by people, and have a place in society.

>descriptions of Warmains / Mimics
Well, a some of your father's letter make more sense in that context. But it also supports the unsettling possibility that they made something of your mother (or even that that's your sister's origin).

>A servant of Heaven?
I would be cautious of this goal, since we don't fully understand Heaven's role in everything that happened, or what their goals or designs are going to be in the future. I understand the sentiment behind what you're saying, and it's a good one, but you should be prepared that it's entirely possible you might not always be working on the same side. You might not always hold the same position on what's just, or right, or important.

> Well, a some of your father's letter make more sense in that context. But it also supports the unsettling possibility that they made something of your mother (or even that that's your sister's origin). 

If so they didn't do it the normal way, as mimics don't look like Excrusians.

I.. I really hope I am not a mimic who just doesn't know it. That would really Suck.

3+4=6

Hmm.

>>578814
I would put that kind of identity crisis the the 'unlikely' column. We should save worrying about that until we find some reason to believe it.

If that's not enough to reassure you: you would have had existed in the first place for them to have killed you and made a mimic out of you. So from an existential crisis point of view, you'd still be you. Just... zombie-you.

Also, if you really did die and were remade between falling and waking up, that makes you a pretty strange mimic, perhaps made with different motives than any previous. After all- Excrucians have it in for creation, right? And mimics, as double agents, work from within to bring it down. But you're the sun- the light that keeps creation going. If you're a mimic, the Excrucian made you made the choice to bring back the sun, and keep creation going. You'd have been put back to do what you originally would have done, instead of subverting it.

Which isn't an entirely implausible motive. Your father made it clear that your mother's death, and the sun going out, hurt them in ways they didn't anticipate, affecting even the outside.

>>578816
Oh. Hmm. Maybe some of the categories overlap?

I could be my mother's mimic. It would explain how I got my Estate, usually when an Imperator dies thier Estates are excruciated, destroyed, rendered incomprehensible.

Err, what should I ask the Vasili? Something about scriptures? Who the Sun is? I sort of thought I knew what to ask them but now I'm only a couple of people away from talking to them.

>>578821
Oh. Um. Hmmm. That's trickier.

Well, let's see. That would mean all your memories of interacting with her were false, since the two of you shouldn't have been alive at the same time. (Unless there were time shenanigans involved? Or maybe composite mimics are possible- one built from two deaths. Say, with the memories of Jade's daughter, but Jade's Estate).

But you found Jade's hidden message at the temple. That means whatever your origin, she knew you would be there, and cared what happened to you. (It might even mean she allowed herself to be killed for the sake of your creation- that she died for her daughter-to-be). It also doesn't change the point that if you are a mimic, you're a really weird one. Someone who should have opposed creation would have made you to keep creation going. (Likely only because of the unforeseen consequences the outside suffered, but still). That would give you a lot more freedom than normal, I would think.

It might explain the "born before me but are younger" line from Senko's letter (because you would have been reborn / remade). Although your father's letter doesn't really seem to suggest this interpretation. There's one line about someone being a warmain now, but a warmain isn't a mimic, and it makes more sense if he's referring to Senko there. He does muddle the subjects and objects of his speech (whether lines are to or about you, your mother, or your sister), but he never seems to conflate the two of you.

I'd say you being a mimic is still unlikely, but we don't have a way to rule it out either. Problem is- I'm not sure how we'd go about learning more. You certainly can't just bring your doubts up to an Excrusian, since it provides such a ready lever for manipulation.

>>578822
Maybe how they know a story that didn't happen? Or that would have happened?

"Hi, I found today's play very interesting and I'm interested in learning about how the story was made, or found. I'd also like to get a copy of all of your stories about the sun like it. Is that available at a gift shop or something?"

>>578940
That quotation I just gave you should do fine for a conversation-starter line if the person you'd be talking to has time for a conversation, and gives them an opportunity to point you at someone else who could talk about how/where the Vasili get their stories if they aren't.

Your description of what the six, or seven, kinds of Imperators are is helpful but more as a skeleton or a starting point than a full set of answers I'm afraid. It does suggest to me some follow up questions though:
What can you do? What are the main (non-moral/choice) limits on what you can do? What is specifically impossible for you?

It's also interesting that your aspirations depend so much upon the opinions of others. At some point you must assert yourself or fail to exist, and what will you be then?

Many things are possible: If you are a mimic made of a power that specifically fuels life and creation through its existence that would say an awful lot about how badly at least some Excrusians don't want to destroy all of creation. The only ones likely to have such motivations are warmains--since they're still searching in creation for something to tear out of it, right?
Overall I think that line of thinking is worth investigating further since it should provide us with some testable hypotheses to prove, or disprove, the proposition that you are a mimic. I'm slightly less reassured by the messages left for us with mother's temple and priestess however: If the Excrusians are capable of remaking the remains of a dead Imperator as they like and an Imperator is something incomprehensibly large, then why would their artifice not extend to altering mother's priestess and temple since they would be parts of her?
Even with that it seems unlikely to me that you are a mimic, but let us get to that question in time: Apparently we have a Vasili to speak to.

PowderedLight 2014/06/17(Tue)09:37 No. 578964 ID: 3294dd
File 140302302204.png - (76.68KB , 482x594 , Fire.png )

What can you do? What are the main (non-moral/choice) limits on what you can do? What is specifically impossible for you? 

Hmm. Well I don't really know. I know Mom was a more a General then a Warrior. That in general a Power or an Excrusian would win if they could corner an Imperator. (Now Imperators are all Immortal so actually killing them is. . Well I have already talked about that.) I think we are Better at affecting things whole stories at a time, or something.
The meditating has helped me be the Sun, I can search through fortitude's sunlight.
Sorry if I am not more helpful, I don't really know what my limits are.
----
"Hi, I found today's play very interesting and I'm interested in learning about how the story was made, or found. I'd also like to get a copy of all of your stories about the sun like it. Is that available at a gift shop or something?"
The miko, the woman who was playing Mother replies "Ah, this performance is mostly based on the 'Monstrous Edda', also known as '108 Ragnaroks', or 'Dying while Dreaming', or 'How I learned to love the Lie'. The Titovs seem to like changing it's name. It's a difficult book and I really don't recommend reading it without talking with the Titovs. We publish an illustrated anthology of our scripts, but I'm afraid it's all of them, not just the Sunday ones. Umm, do you know you are on fire? Please don't start fires here. The wooden buildings burn quite well. I mean you seem okay." She gets rather worried looking.

>mimic makers faking other evidence as well
Oh boy. Down that path lies full blown paranoia.

I would say the best argument against that kind of thing is that level of conspiracy and planning requires time and forethought. And from what we know so far, the Excrusians did not anticipate the full consequences of Jade's death. Meaning, if mimicking happened, it was more likely to be done with haste, or out of necessity, than as part of a well constructed plan or conspiracy.

Not that that's proof, and not that you can't argue that our knowledge of their non-anticipation is also deliberate misinformation. And even if it was done on the spur of the moment, they did have the months we were unconscious to prepare.

>Umm, do you know you are on fire? Please don't start fires here
...try to stop that. I'm going to assume that was involuntary of unconscious (too much thinking about your own nature bringing it out? Reacting to uncertainty about yourself by affirming your nature?). So get a control of it, and damp it out.

Then sheepishly apologize. (follow up question if we can get it in- how do they know the story of what didn't happen?).

If it's involuntary and you can't seem to put it out (your nature reacting to the sun-shrine or something?) then apologize and leave before you harm anyone.

I don't seem to be any more on fire then normal. . .

You're not? Hrrm. Do you smell smoke or something?
...Are you getting 'big' by accident?
Hrrm. Or maybe you accidently used a torch for-wait, no, you're not THAT absentminded, and you would mind if someone set you on fire...Right?

Maybe? Probobly not actually. It never bothered Mom much.

"I am? I don't look like I am. Am I leaking or something? I don't smell anything burning." I say looking as I pat my self down.

"Oh..hmm." They squint at You and say "You seem to be burni. . . well really hot anyway on the inside. Oh are you an atomoton come to talk to Riley?"

Uhhhh...Methinks we're gonna have to explain that you are the daughter of Jade, one way or the other, unless one of the other voices has a way to explain how the priest here is seeing your stomach.

Oh. Interesting. She sees your aura, or your power in some form, even though you're not manifesting it.

Which means she'll remember you, at least, even if she doesn't find out who you are.

>are you an automation?
No, I don't think I am. (Was Riley one of the fire people we met before? If so, you could comment on having met. Or actually, you could just mention who you talked to last time).

We could try to redirect her attention by focusing on something else (say, follow up questions on the story. How do they know a future that wasn't?).

>we may have to tell her who we are
Maybe? I'm reluctant to lie directly about who we are, but I don't have a problem letting her wonder for a bit. Maybe if she pushes harder, or guesses it.

Maybe claim to be an automaton?

> Was Riley one of the fire people we met before?

I think she was the one who reminded people to not waste hot water.

>Oh boy. Down that path lies full blown paranoia.
Sorry, I guess I shouldn't be subtle or humorous (specifically by using litotes when I declared, "Even with that it seems unlikely to me that you are a mimic," before) when reassuring the nuclear furnace that she isn't supposed to destroy everything. Since my humour can sometimes be a little hard to follow I'll try to emphasize things a little more obviously to make it easier. Let's be more direct about the mimic hypothesis then:
Jasper, it is unlikely for you to be a mimic. This is because mimics are tasked with destroying creation and you could possibly do more damage to creation by not existing at all. That isn't absolute proof, nor is the priestess and the message at the temple. However, I shifted the topic because I think it is so unlikely that it probably doesn't rate further attention, at least not without more information. I could come up with a guess about why they might create you as a mimic that doesn't know she is a mimic, but that guess isn't much worth talking about either.
Since this worries us enough to consider it at all we need more information to know or do anything about it. Specifically, we need to make some Imperator friends.

If we can put that behind us for now, we're dealing with a priestess that just observed a rite of worship for the sun. Maybe she has a genuine connection to the sun of some kind and therefore can see that you are the sun (like a vision)? My guess here is that she is seeing a shadow of your true nature because of her mystical something-something. If you could find out, or fill in, the details on what that something-something could be that may be useful information: Knowing about who can see your true nature by looking at your avatar seems like it could be slightly relevant.

"Who is this Riley? Oh, sorry for not introducing myself: I'm Jasper. We can skip the rest of my name and the titles if you're comfortable with that. I apologize for not making the time to come visit you on a Sunday before like this.
"Back to the previous topic though, an anthology of all of your scripts would have the ones about the sun too, so that should be fine. But you said that they came from the Titovs, and I should speak to them about it?"

> "Who is this Riley? Oh, sorry for not introducing myself: I'm Jasper. We can skip the rest of my name and the titles if you're comfortable with that. I apologize for not making the time to come visit you on a Sunday before like this.
"Back to the previous topic though, an anthology of all of your scripts would have the ones about the sun too, so that should be fine. But you said that they came from the Titovs, and I should speak to them about it?"

This just seems to make her more confused. "Well, _today's_ play was based on a chapter of '108 Ragnaroks', but we use stories from all over. We are a pretty sencretic shrine. Like Town really."

>>579028
Then responding that you know or have met Riley is a way of answering her question without actually answering it. (It sounds like agreeing to her question, without actually lying).

>>579033
Um. Whoo. Your humor, and point, weren't missed. The paranoia line was meant as a humorous responce. I only responded in more detail to the point that we can't necessarily trust all the information we're given because it's true, and I figured it better to lay out reasons why a conspiracy where unlikely than let the possibility stew in Jasper's mind. Sorry for the apparent offense. I was thinking about what she needed to hear, not how it might come across to you.

> Then responding that you know or have met Riley is a way of answering her question without actually answering it. (It sounds like agreeing to her question, without actually lying)

And the point of that is?

>>579047
Whups. When I started writing that, the last update hadn't happened yet.

Uh, the idea would have been to reassure her without either giving anything away or lying to her face about your nature. (She'd think it would make sense that the 'fire girl' before her knew Riley, and once she knew you were familiar to at least one member of the shrine, she'd be less worried about what you are). It's kind of a subtle con game, where you let people confirm their own biases.

Basically, it's a kind of deception where you don't actually lie, per se. I figure that's a useful approach when we don't know who you're going to be honest with, later.

Moot now, I suppose. And come to think of it, we talked to Francis last time, not Riley.

>what do
Let's steer the conversation away from you, because unless you decide to start providing real answers, you're just going to confuse her further.

Follow up on the idea of getting stories from all over. Where do they come from- today's didn't even happen, right? But it wasn't just made up. Or if you have all these stories about all these different things, how do you end up focusing on one? Why did you choose the sun, and Francis fire, and so on? (Trying maybe to get her talking about the sun's significance, what it actually means to them).

>>579040
I was non-specifically annoyed because upon reconsideration I shouldn't have joked about Jasper's worry. Being bluntly reassuring is more appropriate when an elemental force of creation and destruction has a genuine worry about their identity and purpose instead of trivializing their concerns through humour. Hence, if anyone had something to apologize for it was me. Your call on what my penance is, if anything, Jasper.

What I was getting at with asking who Riley is to imply that we don't know, or don't remember, who that is. My simple manipulation here is to check whether or not she can tell who the sun is by having her introduce herself as 'Jasper' and allude to titles vaguely enough to imply that you aren't an automaton but without giving anything specific as a hint about who/what you actually are. So far her reactions seem to be confusion, disbelief or some combination of the two, without enough of anything for me to get a specific read on it.

Where we can go from there depends on whether we want to make a game of this or be more forthright. On one hand, practice at conversational intrigue like that could useful and the unusual social situation where she was just part of a religious observance about you gives us a lot of room to be deifically mysterious here. If you want to have fun with it giving subtle hints one at a time could be more amusing. Contrarily, Fortitude is better suited to being forthright, and if you don't feel up to playing that sort of conversational game it is our default option. Being forthright would probably look something like this: "Sorry, I guess that the titles are necessary this time. I am specifically not looking for awe here but I am Jasper Irinka, daughter of Jade, and you just were part of an interesting play about me. Hopefully that explains why I'm so interested in these stories about me and where they come from."

"Well the '108 Ragnaroks' are based off of opium visions of Peter Titov, and are probobly an attempt to communicate with the Titovs by Iolithe Septimain. Though our depictions of Jade and Pabu are more based on talking with the Temple on Little Island." She replies.

Hmm. I Don't think I feel like making a game or of it or explAiNing. Is that lazy of me?

>>579119
No, not lazy. Not everyone enjoys making a game of the truth, and neither is it your responsibility to fully illuminate everyone you talk with about your true identity.

If you'd rather let the issue be, then just do so. If you're talking to her about other things, she won't be as focused on what you are, anyways.

Not sure what else there is to ask about the story... Maybe how 'you' stopped it? (We'll, you wouldn't say you. You'd ask after whatever name or title Jade's daughter was refered to by in the piece).

How much do you know about this Iolithe Septimain, or Pabu, Jasper? Info about the other Imperators might help us figure out a little bit about if, how and when to go about contacting them for best results.

Also, if you just want to avoid having a conversation about your identity that is fully within your rights: It's just that the topic of who/what we are has been raised by the other party, and part of why we came here was to figure out what relation they (and their activities regarding the sun) have to us. It can be pushed back to a future time if you like.

Pabu is one of Mom's ex-wife's names, Pabu - Angel of the Moon, Amaris - Angel of Erotic Art, Fredrika, Angel of Defense Research.

That's all one person though.

Angel of defense research? Excuse me while I pause in horror at the implications of that.

Done pausing: If there's an angel of defense research why the heck did your mom bother with sword technique? Is there some inherent, specific advantage to swords that makes learning to use them important in a world with guns, missile launchers, landmines and such?

Also, you kinda haven't responded about that declaration of a primary goal: Do you already know more than enough about how the Vasili activities (sun worship) affects and relates to you? Because it would seem to be people talking about you, and that's socially important even if it isn't important on the Imperator powers and politics of creation level. Knowing what these people say about you, and why, and what they think of you is important when they're regularly telling other people about you.

>If there's an angel of defense research why the heck did your mom bother with sword technique? Is there some inherent, specific advantage to swords that makes learning to use them important in a world with guns, missile launchers, landmines and such?
Well, if I could speculate for a moment. Modern military weapons are typically force multipliers in that they drastically increase the power or capabilities of an individual. It allows you to attack at range, with much more force, ect. Maybe if you're something like a god, that degree of force multiplication just isn't available (what good is accelerating little bits of metal when you can throw fusion fire around at will?). In that situation, a good weapon might be less about about granting yourself new capabilities, and more about finding ways to focus the power you do have.

I figure that might work literally (a sword thrust with the strength of a god might well put any bullet to shame), and possibly metaphorically: the focus and discipline of a martial art might aid in or translate to more metaphysical aspects of deific combat, in similar to how Jasper has found meditation useful. Jasper did suggest she might not even have perceived the full scope of her parent's conflict.

...there might also be a difference of scale. What approach individuals use in combat might be very different from the systems but in place by larger factions against one another.

Well I think there are a lot more miraculous swords than even wondrous landmines.

Err . . . rather there were. Who knows now.

But honestly I don't know.

Oh, yeah that makes sense. I mean dad can fire his arrows at relativistic speeds just to show off for me. So I don't think a gun would help him much.

Force multiplication may not be so helpful, but attention management, force control, force focus, perception, response time minimization, threat assessment and threat prediction would still be pretty relevant even for something with the power to hit harder than anything could withstand. I find it questionable that a sword would be particularly helpful with such things but then this is not one of my specialties.
Despite that, enchanted swords being more common and the force of an Imperator needing less amplification does make some sense of mom's training other than 'obsolete concepts of combat.' Considering how old mom may have been let's not discount that possibility too much. If it does turn out that a sword is a reasonable option instead of a legacy option we'd need to get a sword useful for Jasper the Imperator. Knowing what features a sword needs these days is an important research question of its own. Another sub-objective is to learn/figure out how to make, trade for, or convince someone to provide us with such a sword. You're a stellar forge, you could probably make something yourself that's sword-like if you tried, but we don't have anywhere near enough information to figure out how to make a good sword for an Imperator yet.
One thing is certain: We'd need a sword that's useful when we're big to practice with (or even use?) and a wooden practice sword is unlikely to fit that role.

Speaking of certainties, am I the only person concerned here with the social effects of people talking about us every Sunday? Everybody who listens to the Vasili has fleshed-out ideas about who we are, what we value and what we do that we don't get a chance to respond to before we meet them. I figure that means their motives and purposes are important to us.

> Speaking of certainties, am I the only person concerned here with the social effects of people talking about us every Sunday? Everybody who listens to the Vasili has fleshed-out ideas about who we are, what we value and what we do that we don't get a chance to respond to before we meet them. I figure that means their motives and purposes are important to us.

I at least agree, I just am unsure how to turn that into something to actually ask? Or should I just read through the Sunday scripts? (Well after I buy an anthology.)

There might be a way to ask it from the angle of the diverse drawing of material she mentioned before.

If they draw in so many different things, why was the sun she chose to focus on? Why Sunday? The message on the other day was about using fire responsibly. You don't have to do that so much with the sun. (Well, you do, but less so other people).

>[...]The message on the other day was about using fire responsibly. You don't have to do that so much with the sun.[...]
Uh, sunburn, skin cancer, fire hazards, organic material decay, and other problems can result from inappropriate use of sunlight or inadequate protection from it. Your point about the hazards of sunlight being far less direct and deadly than those from fire (usually) is valid though.

>I at least agree, I just am unsure how to turn that into something to actually ask?
That's what I was getting at with my proposals for conversational intrigue. Two possibilities that could work are trying to engage in either a divine-mystery or forthright contact conversation where you (to some degree) introduce yourself as the sun, ask questions and observe responses, body language and things like that. If you don't want to open up your identity and nature as a topic for discussion like that it does get more complicated, and likely involves falsehood.
You could try to accomplish something similar by saying, "I have a special connection to the sun and I'm curious about what the sun means to other people here in Fortitude. Since you just participated in a religious observance about the sun I was hoping you would have some insight on the question." That might be too indirect, or too inaccurate for you to feel comfortable saying that as well. It also leaves the other party with an opportunity to ask you about what you mean by having a special connection to the sun so therefore that may not work for you either.

I'm hoping this is temporary but I seem to be at a loss of words for this situation.

Well, I meant more the sun was less a tool or resource people could misuse as they can fire. The idea was to point out differences, what they're not doing, to try and get her talking about what they are doing. (Fire-day was about fire-safety. Sun-day is about... something else).

Or if we want to be more direct, I don't really think you even need to say we have a special connection to the sun to just come out and ask what the sun means to her (or them). That's the kind of direct question / topic segue you might have the leeway to make (it's the kind of thing more acceptable coming from a child then it might be otherwise, and you already have her off balance, anyways).

Hmm. How about I just say I am new to fortitude?

"So I am kind of new to fortitude, and my old home had very different rituals. I want to know what the Sun means to you." Jasper pauses and gestures around her, "to your family, to the people of Fortitude."

"Oooh fresh meat to brainwash!" She jokes, "Well, it's a bit different whether you are talking about the old Sun or the new. Jade's mostly remembered for her somewhat mysterious commands, and for favouring humans. For establishing Fortitude as a place that exists outSide of dreams. SomeTimes she is identified with the Swan Person that brought a pause to the old war. Personally, I think that fits her daughter better. A symbol of hope, of certain death turned aside, of a forever present granted a future.


"Here in Fortitude, Sorrows Week is the most important rite about her. Or .. well it's more then one rite, being eight days, seven about Jade the last about Jasper.


"The Appeasement of the Swan is probobly related, it does seem to be related to Shinto Kagara [sacred dancing] which is about the Sun. Ours is a bit more rough 'n' tumble though. Dad jokes it wasn't a real Swan's day if it didn't make one couple break up, two couples form, and three babies be born in October.


"Mostly though it's about running around while people squawk at you pretending to be a goose. (Yes I know geese and swans are not quite the same thing. .)" She adds parenthetically.

>Hmm. How about I just say I am new to fortitude?
Oh, doy. The obvious easy way to put the question. Excuses your strangeness, and so many people are new these days.

>identified with the Swan Person
That's interesting, considering how things went with Soun, who Catherine suspected might be one. Didn't seem to get on so well, then.

>the last about Jasper
Oh, they know your name. Half surprised she didn't put it together right there, since you introduced yourself before. But I guess running into people with the same name as a god (or named in honor of one?) is more common then actually running into a god. (Or... maybe not, here).

>Sorrows Week
That... sounds like something we might want to check out. (Maybe not everything all 8 days, but at least see your thing, and some of Jade's).

>The Appeasement of the Swan
>it wasn't a real Swan's day if it didn't make one couple break up, two couples form, and three babies be born in October
I half wonder if someday that's going to be the day Catherine tries to push things further. There's something amusing appropriate about trying to hook up with the sun on her own raucous rough and tumble day.

>Mostly though it's about running around while people squawk at you pretending to be a goose.
Okay, that is worth a laugh. (We officially have the best holiday).

>>579775
Hmm. I suppose it should have been obvious that either Mom told a bunch of people about you ahead of time, or else she told a few people who told a bunch of people. But it's only sort of sinking in now.

It makes things a little weird, because it means that it's not just the Kichi and other Imperial powers who have expectations of you - random people we meet might have already formed impressions, and those will be based on rumor and telephoning.

We have to come to terms with the idea that those expectations might be quite inaccurate, to go from...
> I mean mom would make fun of Imperators that lowered themselves to even commanding humans.
...to...
> Jade's mostly remembered for her somewhat mysterious commands, and for favouring humans.

Or, hmm. Was it really that Mom thought humanity was gross? Or just that "commanding humans" - using them as a tool in the War - was gross? It seems undeniable that she was actively involved with this little mostly-human community; if there's some distinction between that and the sort of interaction with humans that was distasteful to her, it seems important. Both to understanding her, and to understanding what's safe/acceptable for us to do.

And speaking of people's impressions of each other, how do you feel about yourself being thought of as "a symbol of hope, of certain death turned aside"?

>>579788
>But I guess running into people with the same name as a god (or named in honor of one?) is more common then actually running into a god. (Or... maybe not, here).
It all depends on the relevant times and aging rates. I expect there would have been a lot of babies named Jade or Jasper for the next couple years after the eclipse. If we look young enough to have been born at that time...

>Hmm. I suppose it should have been obvious that either Mom told a bunch of people[...]
This theory discounts the fact that there are others that have knowledge of us, and a stake in defining themselves and their relations to us, besides just Mom. For instance, we still haven't covered who and what this Deceiver Ioloithe Septimain is but they seem to have very definite opinions about Jade at least, if not ourself. Further, Mom may have been hiding us from the rest of Heaven (or Heaven from us) but that says nothing about who else she may have told, or who else dad may have talked to, about us.

"Interesting, where I came from talk of the sun was dominated by Jade the warrior, Jade the protector and then informal whispers about Jade the lover when people were flirting with each other or drunk. I'm still not clear who this Amaterasu is that I've heard people talking about here, and I'm completely lost on who Ra may be--or may have been. Is there a good reference about all this?"

>There's something amusing appropriate about trying to hook up with the sun on her own raucous rough and tumble day.
I am now kicking myself for not saying "trying to take a tumble with".

So Jasper, the sun has a large corona that it projects, and it directly reflects conditions inside the star. It occurs to me to ask if this means you could manifest clothing and armour for yourself as a matter of controlling your corona or not. If so that could be rather helpful.

Myths PowderedLight 2014/06/21(Sat)21:23 No. 579869 ID: b14727
File 140341098159.jpg - (235.01KB , 440x463 , amaterasu-gif.jpg )

"Interesting, where I came from talk of the sun was dominated by Jade the warrior, Jade the protector." I ask, blushing slightly then whispering "Jade the lover when people were flirting with each other or drunk."

"Yes their love was great, and tragic. Yet maybe the foundation of hope. After all Jasper survived." The Priestess says.

"I'm still not clear who this Amaterasu is that I've heard people talking about here, and I'm completely lost on who Ra may be--or may have been. Is there a good reference about all this?"

"Amaterasu-sama is the Japanese goddess of the Sun, and grandmother of the founder of the Imperial line. She represents both the Sun and the cosmic order. Ra was the Egyptian creator deity and God of the Sun and also represented the cosmic order. He corresponds both to Jade and Jasper, as he is reborn each night.

"Both Amaterasu and Ra were drawn out of slumps by people dancing naked, which is part of why I think that Swans day is connected. Though there's also the garden of Eden I guess? You would have to ask the Christians about that though. I don't really know their myths.

"I you are willing to wait a minute, let me talk to the last people here, and then I can get the family's books on religion. We have some really nice illustrated ones. Though the best theoLogy books are at the Archive, ..." She pauses, "...or School"

> So Jasper, the sun has a large corona that it projects, and it directly reflects conditions inside the star. It occurs to me to ask if this means you could manifest clothing and armour for yourself as a matter of controlling your corona or not. If so that could be rather helpful.

Ooo! That sounds awesome. I should definitely work on that!

>And speaking of people's impressions of each other, how do you feel about yourself being thought of as "a symbol of hope, of certain death turned aside"?

I like it. Feels right. Sort of reminds me of when I made my earring.

I don't see any problem with sticking around to look at picture books when she's done. We can walk around the grounds or maybe say hi to a few other people while we wait.

>Ooo! That sounds awesome. I should definitely work on that!
In private, I think. A sudden wardrobe malfunction isn't what we want right now. But yes, if you can do that, it would be very useful, not to mention cool.

If you wanted to go for style points I'd say that playing with light and rainbows is a more appropriate way to spend time waiting than risking a wardrobe malfunction in a public place: I'm inspired to see how blatantly you can hint about being *the* Jasper without people catching on.

Other things I expect to be harder we also want to be able to do at some point with your light are making mirages, revealing the future (shining a light on the future) and revealing truth and falsehood (shining a light on shadows obscuring truth). But no pressure, heh.

books. .. PowderedLight 2014/06/25(Wed)09:43 No. 581027 ID: 20ec59
File 140371462333.jpg - (49.69KB , 864x576 , IMG_0006.jpg )

I spend some time moving light around the sky trying to incorporate the clouds and sky line into an artistic whole. Again I can feel the glass worker's help though my earring.

It doesn't take long for her to finish her business, just about when I was starting to think I had gotten things about as pretty as I could make them she was done.

She looked up at the sky and said. "Wow, sometimes I take it for granted how beautiful the dusty sky can get.

"Well anyway, come on in. Take your shoes off in the entry way." She says leading into the slightly ramshackle house. "Let me run up and get the books. Riley" She says running up a fleet of stairs two at a time.

She comes back down with a stack of books, each one a different thickness, hight, width, color, materials, and language.

Ancient Greek, English, Chinese, Japanese, are just the ones where they say what language or I recognize it.

"Hmm. Any thoughts on where we should start?" She asks me.

"Err..ummm." I say thinking.
>

I guess overall theory, what all the different sun incarnations have in common, and what the books say about Jade and Jasper to start with. Anyone have a better starting point?

Part of me is amused that the Southeby's catalog is included.

>languages you recognize
Interesting that they still look different to you, despite your intuitive ability to read them all. For some reason I would have expected an automatic comprehension to blur distinctions.

>Any thoughts on where we should start?
Maybe with a story of one of these other sun gods you keep hearing about but aren't really familiar with?

> Interesting that they still look different to you, despite your intuitive ability to read them all. For some reason I would have expected an automatic comprehension to blur distinctions.

Well different writing systems makes it obvious, they just look different..though it sort of feels like how accents used to work. Like I could still understand British English just fine even if mom was teaching me American. (The dialect pilots use I think..or maybe Hollywood English..what is Hollywood? sounds like a plant, and plant's don't usually speak English.)

I find myself a bit curious about two things:
1) Just how much time did you spend on Earth?
2) If this pile of books is a test for you; most people aren't able to read many languages when they are your apparent age. Actually, remarkably few of them are so such a talent would make you notable for a human if you were pretending to be one (or pretending not to be far different from one).

We could do worse than asking our host for their suggestions on how/where to start, but do be mindful of what you're revealing of your own talents and knowledge while conversing and reading; find a plausible excuse for being able to read many/all languages or pick a small subset of them (one to four) to openly admit to being able to read.

>most people aren't able to read many languages when they are your apparent age

This isn't a problem--it doesn't really apply in Town where all languages are pretty much interchangeable. Just one of a number of odd properties of the place. I think this has been mentioned before.

>>581154
>"I'm human, but Town, even before little Island came to it, escaped the Curse of the Tower. Or so was explained to me. I must admit the idea of not understanding a language confuses me. I mean how can you think in a language you don't know."
We have just said that we don't come from around here. It's not clear to me 1) that foreigners would stop 'suffering this curse' after moving to Fortitude, and 2) that this means that writing in languages which resulted from this 'curse' would be comprehensible within the normal scholastic aptitudes of a teenage girl. Then again you do have a point that I'm talking about an information release problem that may not exist at all. Further, it would only matter if we really care deeply about hiding our true nature from someone that is (at least arguably) our priestess to some degree.

>I'm human
Let's not lie outright if we don't have reason to, okay? Especially so transparent a lie, since she can see our inner furnace. (And at the very least knows we are unusual, if not inhuman. Her first guess was that Jasper was a construct, after all).

When you're not telling someone something, it's better just to address what you have to then to try and provide (false) explanations for everything in advance. If and when an inconsistency or lie is caught, it grabs the attention more than an omission. (Ie, insisting that we're human when she can see we're something else or more will only get her thinking about that).

Besides, it's not even going to be apparent we know all these languages unless we actually go through all the books in one sitting!

PowderedLight 2014/06/26(Thu)11:08 No. 581275 ID: 052655
File 140380610524.jpg - (15.94KB , 178x284 , flow chart of DOOM @_@.jpg )

Well before I came to town I only knew the True Tongue, English, Latin, and a spattering of Ancient Egyptian, a hand full of Russian words for outer-space things, some formal Dional, a little CyberBaradghash, and how to say "Please don't eat me, I am lost and [Mom or Dad] will pay a big ransom." in lots of languages.

I didn’t know Japanese, or Ancient Greek. (and I only know its Ancient Greek, because it says it is.)

------

I ask "What do you suggest?" Sitting next to her on a couch, as she props the books on a coffee table.

"Hmm. Maybe start with the Goddess Amaterasu?" She says taking out a book on the rituals of Shinto and the myths they reference.

It's a bit confusing, but I ask lots of questions, and I think I sort of understand the sequence of events. Japanese kami sound kind of like an confusion of Angels and True Gods. Like the story of Susanoo-no-Mikoto getting kicked out of Heaven and freaking out when the God of food made food by pooping and barfing, is like a very confused version of the KT boundary.

But the way they just make spirits out of their dust and snot and stuff sounds more like how gods like me are supposed to work when we grow up.

Also I can't ever see mom hiding in a cave. . but the room my sister's painting was in is very cave like, and the things that happened when Amaterasu hid in the cave are a lot like what happened when Mom died if I got Lady Bentenmaru's story right. Though the fact that Amaterasu was gotten out by a goddess stripping and then people laughing at her yoni is.. just weird.

Apparently the story they put on today seems to be related to a few passages in Norse Eddas that talk about a Sun goddess who is killed and succeeded by her daughter. But there also isn't much actually about her in the story. She is just sorry of mentioned.

The Greek, Roman, and Egyptian Sun god's seem aggressive enough, and I think I have heard messengers call Mom the Unconquered Sun, but man there are a lot of different titles and sometimes they mean the same person, and sometimes there are two Gods of the Sun.

I..I also don't think Mom created the world out of spit and Semen. >.<

The Vampires have some interesting stories about the Invincible Daystar. Apparently (some of) they blame It for the Cross repelling them. They say that Vampires have the blood of the Dragon that the Sun killed in them, whereas humans are from its breath. And that is why Vampires live forever, and deserve to rule the fickle dying men. The European stories seem not to like women much. Which ties into the story of Eden. Mom talked about the first Man and the Mother of Humanity with respect and sorrow, but I was more interested in weather I could eat some more evildoers. You know. . dad always smelled like evil. I thought it was from the candy but now. .

And now I lost track of why we were doing this. Oh, now more Egypt stories. Lots of sex stuff in these, and blood. The way they talk about humanity reminds me of mom and how she said the Light lords did. The story about the lion goddess monster killing people sort of reminds me of the Tower and the Flood. Lots of individual humans die, but humanity ends up safer as a whole.

At one point the Sun is depressed and his daughter puts on a strip show for him. I kind hope that didn't happen to Mom. Thinking about Mom and sex just seems weird.

Though reading about the Greek Gods eating and having children with their relatives makes me feel sort of hungry, like I should eat you guys or my sister.

I guess it makes sense that eating sounds good and getting eaten sounds bad. Maybe sex is sort of the same?

The Titanomachy feels like some stories mom told, but. .I am having trouble remembering who was who. Mom and other Angels and some Wild Lords I think were on the winning side, maybe? Supporting the Younger prettier true God's over the old ones? I think the peace talks there might be where Entropy came into power?

Ugh, it feels like the stories all tangle into each other, in a way that should make sense to me. Like if I was grown up it would just be, but because I am all small and human like I'm trying to make human sense of it?

Purpose check: We were doing this to at least start on a couple different things.
1) Figure out what people think and say about you/the sun that you didn't already know. See what kinds of things we should be prepared for people to know, or incorrectly believe, about you.
2) Gain an appreciation for the human scale view of what and who the sun is; this is personally relevant since you're the sun and you're living among mortals in this avatar right now.
3) Find out more about these priests of the sun, what they think about you and what their connection to you is--find out if they're anything more to you than just gossip-mongers.
4) Get a handle on powers that you might have but don't remember, never learned about or have yet to develop. I've been particularly focusing on the prophetic/revelatory sight of Apollo here because it sounds like it would be very useful to you.

It sounds like you may have hit something like information overload however. If so we should thank the priestess for her help, and possibly arrange to go over these materials again in future if you think there's more here worth learning still, or if you'd like a stated reason to make a return visit. I'm a bit curious about who this Riley person is and what's going on with automata in the local area myself as well, but that's a tertiary-objective optional-sidequest I think.

>I guess it makes sense that eating sounds good and getting eaten sounds bad. Maybe sex is sort of the same?
...I can't stop laughing.

>Ugh, it feels like the stories all tangle into each other, in a way that should make sense to me.
Yeah, myths are kind of like that. They're old stories that have been told and retold, and overlap with one another, and have different versions or ways of telling them. And that's just what makes them hard from a human perspective. Trying to piece together what bits might be based in truth just makes it more complicated.

I wouldn't worry to much about making sense of it, now. I admit it's interesting to see where you think the stories might come from, but even just knowing the stories and how people think about this stuff could be useful, for now.

And maybe some of the things these gods do with their abilities might give you ideas about your own capabilities to try later? (Well, not the blood and sex and cannibalism and world creation, I mean).

>Apollo
Oh yeah. The Greek Pantheon is a little odd in that the sun himself, Helios, is more of a background character, but Apollo does have a lot of the right thematic elements. Most relevant might be the whole Delphi thing, since you've got yourself an oracle too.

I could give a systematic/theoretical overview of what sex is for mortals. It would probably explain a lot about it regarding non-mortals as well. It can be complex and we may want either privacy or privacy with Catherine present for such an explanation however.

>Most relevant might be the whole Delphi thing, since you've got yourself an oracle too.
Apollo spoke through his oracle: the sibyl or priestess of the oracle at Delphi was known as the Pythia; she had to be an older woman of blameless life chosen from among the peasants of the area. She sat on a tripod seat over an opening in the earth. When Apollo slew Python, its body fell into this fissure, according to legend, and fumes arose from its decomposing body. Intoxicated by the vapors, the sibyl would fall into a trance, allowing Apollo to possess her spirit. In this state she prophesied.
I think the important part is Apollo's foresight/vision that gave him something to say to the priestess when they asked those questions. Somehow he knew important details about the future and what was true or not that the mortals were lining up to ask about. For the rest perhaps getting some cellphones might be a much simpler and superior alternative if you can get ones that won't get lost, broken, run out of batteries or have bad reception when you need them. Granted, that's far less impressive for the temple visitors than an oracular trance unless your cellphone or phone-plan is just that good.

Time Management. PowderedLight 2014/06/30(Mon)01:53 No. 582097 ID: b14727
File 140411841356.jpg - (45.41KB , 400x300 , TimeManagement.jpg )

Dad had a cellphone. Mom would call it snazzy.

But yeah. I think I might have read enough for a while.

For matters of being impressive I kind of like the set up with the pools. Though I guess it will work differently for Catherine?

I thank the Promised of Fire (that's the priestess's formal title, apparently) and get up ready to head home, images of drunk giant snakes with multiple heads dancing in my mind.
Hmm. Time to plan out the next month. So if I divide my time into 21 1/21 then I've already committed to spending 2/21 at the Susonov's, and 2/21 at Mom's temple. Mental energy wise let's say i have 16 units of willpower. Nothing i have committed to needs willpower/, but progress often takes effort as well as time. If I didn't socialize or eat I could get away with only spending 2/21 helping Grany, but the other kids my age are putting in more like 6/21, and a couple of the older ones are more like 12/21sts.
I definately want to spend some time with Catherine, but not sure how much. It also might be a good idea to get to know the pools or her family.
I think I want to put more time into either Mom's or the Susonov's temple, but again I'm not sure how much.
Watching or reading stories at the Kichi or visiting the Titov's might be worth it, as might seeing about getting a part-time job for spending money.
Visiting the roofs or Horizon might make sense too. Or seeing one of the region's of town I haven't visited yet.

So I think minimum (listing time then effort.)
Meditation at Susonov: 2/21 - 1/16
Tending to Mom's temple: 2/21 - 1/16
Helping Ashley: 3/21 - 0/16
Catherine: 2/21 - 2/16.

Which leaves me with 12 units of time and 13 units of will to either put into the above, or spend on something else.

What do you gals think?

>Dad had a cellphone.
Huh. Awful... established for an Excrucian. Interconnectedness, communication, dependence on a service plan...

>Promised of Fire
Huh, if that's the title for the Sunday priestess, I wonder what the title for the fire-day priestess is.

>time / resource management
I'd think we'd want to leave a little left over, just in case, to deal with unexpected things that might happen. If you're getting to the end of the month and haven't needed the time anywhere else, you can roll it in where you think it makes sense.

Do we need to allocate time to practicing with your sword, or is that built in as part of your morning routine?

We can't pass up continuing to explore new places, I think. And the Titovs have been mentioned often enough that it might be a good idea to finally check them out.

What prospects do we have for part time jobs, again?

It might also be worth devoting some time to experimenting with your own abilities. Like the corona manipulation, or other ideas.

Weren't we going to have a talk or tea or something with Entropy II at some point? He's the closest thing you have to a peer, here.

Trying to split that up into time... (not gonna try and figure out will, yet).

Meditation at Susonov: 3/21 - 1/16
Tending to Mom's temple: 2/21 - 1/16
Helping Ashley: 3/21 - 0/16
Catherine: 3/21 - 2/16.
More general Kichi stuff: 2/21
Visit Tiltovs: 1/21
Entropy II: 1/21
Experiment: 1/21
Explore (Horizon or somewhere new): 1/21
Job hunt: 2/21

That's 19/21, giving us a little room (2/21) to adapt to new stuff if we need to. Maybe another slot actually, if you get lucky with the job hunt early on. Doesn't allocate time for Vasili stories, but I was thinking you were a little overloaded with that for now? (Although we could easily more things around so they got a day or two).

>If I didn't socialize or eat
I don't think a complete lack of socialization is a good thing. A low-consequence sandbox where you can interact with other people is a good thing. As for eating, you don't need to, technically. Not there's anything wrong with enjoying it, or the social stuff around it, or participating to fit in. I mean, it's something you could sacrifice if we really need the extra time at some point, or if hard times hit and you're concerned about taking food that could go to others.

> Huh, if that's the title for the Sunday priestess, I wonder what the title for the fire-day priestess is.

She was one of the performers on Fire day too. I think. Or maybe it was a priest...hmm. I guess a lot has happened sense then.

Anyway they were the one who said don't play with matches.

Oh, part time jobs.

Moving dead fish around.
Moving dead books around.
Helping rebuild the Watanabe shrine.
Squireing for a rat.

>What do you gals think?
Err right, of course; I'm part of Jasper so that makes us female. I may get confused about this again later, the thoughts and memories of a male IT consultant from Earth conflict a little bit. At least he is, or was (how does this work?), pretty good at explaining things and organization.

>Dad had a cellphone. >Huh. Awful... established for an Excrucian.
I dunno, I've suspected that cellphones were a plot to destroy civilization for a long time now. Seriously, watching people get into accidents or ignore each other while using cellphones and similar personal communications/computing gear is something I remember as being common.

>Do we need to allocate time to practicing with your sword, or is that built in as part of your morning routine?
Even if she does, she's not going to improve without instruction and/or skilled opposition to catch the mistakes and bad habits and demonstrate things she doesn't know well enough.

In alphabetical order, time expressed in the of-21 units, and effort in the of-16 units:
Ability Experimenting 2/21, 2/16; Catherine 3/21, 2/16; Entropy II 1/21, 1/16; Exploration 2/21, 2/16; Help Ashley 3/21, 1/16; Job Search 0/0; Kichi Family/Pools 2/21, 1/16; Susonov Meditation 3/21, 2/16; Sword Practice 1/21, 2/16; Temple of Mom 2/21, 1/16; Visit Titovs 1/21, 1/16. Uncommitted 1/21, 1/16.

I zeroed out job-searching because I strongly-suspect that either explorations will turn up profitable adventuring opportunities (or job opportunities) or our power development will give us an income as a result of some trick we develop. This may take a while however. We also really should figure out a way to get help or company with/for our power development unless we want to do that in Horizon or something. (Horizon would be a great place to work on it solo though aside from complications from angry vampires and such.)

I really think we should make time to learn more about physics, astrophysics, and relevant phenomena and lore for stellar bodies. Yes, I'm serious: In addition to being a young woman we are also a heavenly body with a stellar gravity well. Do we even know if we have planets, asteroids and/or comets orbiting us yet, let alone which ones? Where are the local black holes and other significant phenomena? What do we orbit? Which way is our galaxy is moving, or don't we have a galaxy? Even if those answers aren't important to us knowing more about stellar physics is: For one thing it will suggest things to us about our powers, talents and vulnerabilities. I'm not yet sure how to pursue this question best so any time committed to this probably at start comes under the exploration heading.

The above has no commitment to return to visit the Vasili, which we may want to consider; perhaps their Sunday worship makes it partly our temple? Perhaps not but we are the sun and they are sun worshippers so I suspect there's something important there: Even if we don't acknowledge it openly and directly that is a relationship with us.

I also can't help but think we're forgetting something important, on top of other things we haven't explicitly made time for. A list of those includes contacting Heaven and other imperators, unarmed hand-to-hand training, looking into Entropy's school and other schooling options, investigating (or smithing and enchanting for ourself) a proper sword, and sending little sister some pressed/dried heliotropes in the mail.

Lastly, I'm not above asking Time for some advice on time management if we can find them unless they're a mimic now. That's probably something they're really good at and I've learned to value the expertise of specialists in their fields.

>I'm part of Jasper so that makes us female
Unless you're part of the animus, I suppose. (Although the relevant question would be if all of Jade's 'multitude' Jasper was aware of were female).

>not going to improve without instruction and/or skilled opposition
True, but there's still merit in maintaining what she does have. That, and since her visit to horizon, Jasper now has more of a proper practice weapon to work with than she did before.

>>582129
Moving fish around doesn't sound terribly interesting. There might be side benefits to some of the others though- working in the library might mean we pick up information, or get to know people who could help us later (say, when we want to learn about cosmology or physics). Working with a rat might let you play more to your upper class stuff for a bit, or give you a chance to put practical adventuring to use (and profit?).

What happened to the Watanabe shrine that it needs rebuilding? I don't think we've spoken with them, yet.

>>582146
I can support that revised timetable.

>Vasili, which we may want to consider
Yeah, I only left them out because Jasper seemed a little overwhelmed by all the information at her last visit, and didn't mention them in her initial list of possibilities, which I took to mean she could use a break. I wouldn't object to squeezing them in somewhere (especially if we wrap something up sooner than expected?). And even if we don't appear there this month, we should next.

>investigating (or smithing and enchanting for ourself) a proper sword
Seems to me perhaps that would wait until we'd secured some kind of income. Either commissioning or purchasing, or making / enchanting our own sword will take some financial resources. Even trying to find one for 'free', adventurer style, would require some preparation and supplies. A problem for a later month, I think.

>unarmed hand-to-hand training
Basic proficiency would be useful to anyone in a martial art (you won't always have a sword in hand, and you want to be able to survive long enough to get one. Plus, there's always adaptation). Still, we haven't found a proper sword or even a reliable teacher / sparring partner yet, for the martial we are familiar with. That probably comes before branching out, and finding another teacher.

>contacting Heaven and other imperators
I really think we need more information before we open those channels. We're still too ignorant about too many things, there. Maybe the talk with Entropy II will help, or we'll learn more at the temples.

>>582205
I suspect we might need the uncommitted willpower for that Titov visit. (Hopefully we'll avoid their perpetual family drama.) Anyway, no objections to that schedule. I'll say that the rat squire appeals most to my sense of adventure, but the Watanabe shrine one I'm admittedly curious about.

>Animus/anima
Well, I can say that I definitely belong in the anima category at least.

>582216
You're probably right about the hazards of the Titov visit. I really wanted to keep more uncommitted will/time than this because we may have unexpected problems or opportunities, but I can't think of anything to cut really.
If it turns out we don't find a better use for that time we could do much worse than moving around dead books with it.

I'm writing up my thoughts on our schedule, but first: both proposed schedules so far have plussed up our Sosunova meditation classes from the minimum schedule. Is there any particular reason?

>>582398
Nevermind, I reread some stuff from Thread One and everything became clear.

>>582108
> And the Titovs have been mentioned often enough
That's true but it's also worrying. I think it's important that we meet them, but given what we know about how their magic works, I hope the underlying reason for meeting them isn't that they've been expecting us, y'know?

>Explore (Horizon or somewhere new)
If we're looking for somewhere new to explore, we could always ask around about...
>>/questarch/545873
>A boy a few years older interjects from across the table, "Old Molder is worth seeing too. Not as creepy as Horizon."
Wherever we go, let's try to choose someplace likely to be low drama. We're being unusually insightful here to recognize that mental/emotional energy is a finite resource - let's save some of it for the more pressing items on our list.

>Weren't we going to have a talk or tea or something with Entropy II at some point? He's the closest thing you have to a peer, here.
Agree on this.

>I really think we should make time to learn more about physics, astrophysics, and relevant phenomena and lore for stellar bodies.
Heh. There's something amusing about using Prosaic natural law as a metaphorical mirror here. Anyway, I'm sure there's a library or three in Fortitude somewhere, if we can squeeze it in. Maybe as part of "Experimenting"?

Anyway, these would be my picks, categorized and then ordered by time investment:

Connecting to Those Closest to Us
Catherine: 3 Time, 2 Will.
> This is an important relationship, and one that's heartfelt but still pretty confusing to navigate.
Helping Ashley: 3 Time, 0 Will.
> Spending time at Home is important, but, well, it's your Home. It's a safe place; you should take those simple, honest chores as a chance to relax and rest emotionally/mentally.
More general Kichi stuff: 2 Time, 2 Will.
> Here, on the other hand, your relationship is still growing, and still has difficult tensions to it. You may not need to put in much time, but the time you do put in needs to be careful and attentive to the particular hopes and fears of their hearts.
Tending to Mom's temple: 2 Time, 1 Will.
> Again, this is more physical than emotional/mental in needed effort; it's something we are doing because it feels good to be doing it.

Learning and Exploration
Meditation Practice at Susonov: 3 Time, 1 Will.
> We seem to be taking to this naturally. Put in the time, and don't slack off, but a big Will expenditure seems unnecessary.
Experimenting: 2 Time, 2 Will.
> We have so little understanding of our own powers or how they work. This seems important.
Exploration: 2 Time, 1 Will.
> As mentioned above, let's try to find someplace less stressful than Horizon to do it.
Tea with Entropy Jr: 1 Time, 1 Will.
> It shouldn't take too much time to talk over the state of the causa causans. As for Will... well, we want to pay some attention to this conversation, but I don't expect it to be that stressful. He seems nice.
Sword Practice: 1 Time, 2 Will.
> I briefly considered whether we might want to dip more into unarmed combat (given the whole "nuclear omnivore" thing), but swordfighting is also a familiar thing that connects us to the life we had before. Anyway, no matter what fighting style, we've got a long way to go, so even if it's not that big of a part of our life right now it seems wise to put a good chunk of effort into improving at it.
[Optional] Visit to the Titovs: 1 Time, 2 Will.
> This is something that can wait; if something happens during the month that requires more free Time, I'm in favor of postponing it. But if we do it, let's make sure we have enough emotional pep to handle a family that - if what we've heard is true - may be significantly more troubled than the Kichi.

Time Free: 1-2
Will Free: 2-4
(Depending on whether we do the Titov visit.)

The purpose of the remaining Time is to react to situations for which we didn't plan. 10% isn't ideal as margins go but hopefully it'll be enough. I'm in favor of part-time jobbing for any time that doesn't end up getting used up here.

The remaining Will, on the other hand, is something I feel like makes sense to save for stuff we're already doing - for those cases where, in the middle of power exploration or an Important talk with Catherine or so forth, we can decide, "this is worth giving our all right now" and bumping up our emotional investment significantly.

...okay, people really need to stop formatting the list completely differently each time making it annoying to compare.

>>582408
Only difference I see, compared to >>582146 are:
* Ashely -1 will (0 total)
* Kichi +1 will
* Meditation -1 will
* Explore -1 will
* Titovs +1 will

Mostly minor changes. Putting extra effort into the Titovs is probably worthwhile caution, but I'm not so sure I approve taking effort out of meditation. And I definitely don't approve of putting no effort in at home. Jasper's made it very clear how important she feels having relationships with the people around her is to her, and I don't think she should be ignoring the people who took her in.

> gals guys thing.

Oh sorry. I kind of just assumed. Nursy was a girl, and so were a lot of the air / space spirits, but most of the Time spirits were Mr. So-and-So.

Magnetism spirits were always in pairs...

----

Thanks for the hard work on a schedule. It sounds like we still have some details to work out but the general shape looks good!

>>582408
If you want to put off the Titov visit for a month and recover that time and will for other purposes I could be persuaded. Regarding the rest of your adjustments, I'm not sold on them aside from hypothetically spending more effort on getting to know the Kichi pools if we can pull some out of nowhere, and committing extra effort up-front for meeting the Titovs (if we do so this month).

-I don't want to skimp on what we'd learn and do with the family. Ms. Bentenmaru and Granny Ashley each have a wealth of experience, and they guard where we sleep and the sole temple that we know about which is unequivocally ours. I'm certain they have a lot of useful knowledge to teach us, and perhaps more importantly they have useful perspective we need. One part in sixteen of effort is pretty much a minimum commitment, as is the three time, and I wish we had more to spend here without short-changing other important things.
-I chose a one eighth effort minimum with meditation for thought-out reasons. One is because I'm hoping for rapid progress to a level that aids us generally with tasks. This is also the most likely activity to tangibly develop our will and focus, potentially paying dividends of additional effective time and/or effort to make use of in the future. Improved meditation and dream-control probably helps us with discovering and mastering our other Imperator abilities as well; I'd at least be surprised if it didn't help. Finally, more advanced meditation practice may include hand-to-hand practice here, and if so we may find that intensely valuable.
-I also don't want to skimp on the will-commitment for exploration. This is because exploration actively places us in unexpected, potentially dangerous, profitable and/or teachable circumstances. Also, we need to learn about how economics and civilization works, and some direct observation there would be helpful. Let's start by making up for the fact that we did not grow up in the area and getting to know it and the people in it. We need to do this for many reasons, but one that has tangible payback is to adjust so that Fortitude (primarily the people in it, perhaps also Fortitude itself as an entity) recognizes and accepts us as part of the community more strongly, and helps us working with others more readily.

The general problem is that we have too much to do and not enough time or attention to do it all as fast and well as we'd want. I've more-or-less done what I can for prioritization with our limited information, but that's a workaround instead of a solution. Does anybody have any bright ideas on how to fix, or at least improve, our situation regarding this more general problem? We seem to have collectively decided to delay seeking aid and intervention from friendly Imperators/Excrusians/(others) to alter the limits of what we can get done in a given amount of time. This seems shortsighted to me, but I grant that the risks are unknowable to us without further information. So that leaves us needing other ideas or more information about transcending our limitations.

>>582435
Leaving aside transgender issues, gender uncertainty issues, and Jungian theory, my embodiment as/in a female being is something I'd normally expect to be the primary source of information for such a question. This is outside my knowledge though: I defer to your expertise.
More information about these spirits, what they can do, and what you think it'd take to get some to help us might be helpful.

Also, thank you for directing us to a problem we can make progress on.

Mother McCormic is the lady at Moms temple, and Lady Bentenmaru isn't going to get back for another month. If I have my dates right..She says that a 6 week deployment is crazy short but it feels like a long time for me.

> More information about these spirits, what they can do, and what you think it'd take to get some to help us might be helpful.

Well..they're ..uh spirits, and they do things. Thats not very helpful on my part, but they vary a lot, some of them are probobly dead, but others are probobly part of me right now..its just I'm having trouble being the big me, and seeing them.

And others probobly were kicked out of Celestia like I was..

But most of them are going to help me..I think. I mean..I also thought Dad was nice too. So..

Yeah...

As to what they do..they kind of are things, run things for Mom? Like how Nursy would watch me when Mom was busy, or Mr. 2'Oclock would make sure the sky was right at 2'Oclock in the afternoon.

I wonder who was in charge of the night times.

>>582427
>Jasper's made it very clear how important she feels having relationships with the people around her is to her, and I don't think she should be ignoring the people who took her in.
To clarify, I don't mean that she shouldn't give that stuff her effort, so much as that I don't expect it to take so much effort. That said, I suppose putting in at least 1 Will makes sense on the level that we don't want it to be as though we don't care.

>[...]they vary a lot, some of them are probably dead, but others are probably part of me right now..its just I'm having trouble being the big me, and seeing them.

I was specifically wondering if there were any that would make good tutors, guards, scouts and practice partners for taking care of business. You also mentioned 'time' spirits and this made me hopeful we could get them to either help with optimizing your schedule or maybe helping you get more done in the same amount of time by making it work differently for you (or something like that).
We also could use a manual or reference for all the powers you're supposed to get, or could get, so we can pick what we want to work on first. I don't know if they would be able to help with that but the sorts of powers that spirits have might be a starting point for figuring out the sorts of powers that Imperators which are stars might have: I've been guessing that prediction, foresight and discernment of truth and reality is stuff you could do because of their metaphorical relations to light (supported by legends of light- and sun-related beings that could allegedly do those sorts of things).

>>582408 and >>582427
So, let me point back at my draft of our schedule. Do my explanations for why I don't like these changes make enough sense to agree with, and what does everybody think about putting off the Titov appointment for next month?

>>582514
He was describing your home at Ashley's as a kind of temple.

And yes, 6 weeks is a pretty short deployment, I'd say. It's a long time to wait, but it's not long at all if you're trying to travel and get something done. Makes me wonder what's important enough that they need to deploy, but simple enough that it can be finished so soon.

>I wonder who was in charge of the night times.
The moon? Although maybe not, what with the possible betrayal and hell thing.

>And others probobly were kicked out of Celestia like I was..
Which possibly makes finding them or gathering them another longer term goal.

>its just I'm having trouble being the big me, and seeing them
Wait, that's new. We warned you not to go big earlier, for fear your big form could be harmful to the people or enviroment around you. (The Promised of Fire's worry is a little more relevant if you actually are a ball of fire). But are you saying you couldn't be big right now, even if you wanted? Or just that some of these things are hard to think about / visualize from your current perspective?

>So, let me point back at my draft of our schedule. Do my explanations for why I don't like these changes make enough sense to agree with, and what does everybody think about putting off the Titov appointment for next month?
Oh, I thought I made it clear I like the your schedule more than the suggested revisions.

I'd... prefer not to put the Tiltovs off, simply because it seems what they offer is a fairly significant option to handle certain threats and situations. How or even whether we choose to use that option later is up in the air, but I'd prefer to get that option on the table before we need it, rather than after. It seems like they tie into enough things that we can't afford not to have knowledge of them.

That said, if the consensus is we need to push it off a month to be more prepared, or so we can devote more resources to the encounter, I'll accept it.

>>582579
Sorry, you did make that clear but I'm never sure how many of us voices are interested in speaking an opinion, and I don't want to assume that two is a majority.
And now we have me holding neutral and you in favour of holding the (first) Titov meeting sooner.

> short deployment.
I think it's a navigation/mapping thing? And I think you can sort of cheat with how speeds work on Big Lake.

Otherwise they really shouldn't be able to trade with Mars. Which apparently the mars bars aren't from? But the really good chocolate is?

....Martian chocolate?
Why not, in order for there to be martian agriculture involving terrestrial species there would have to be extensive terraforming, enclosed habitat construction and/or horticultural engineering involved. If you're going through that much trouble already why wouldn't you make yourself a production chain for the desirable products of theobromo cacao?
While everybody else is busy deciding to agree, disagree or pay attention to other questions regarding our prospective schedule I find myself curious about our local world here. Just what is reachable via this big lake or otherwise within your plausible range of exploration?

> Wait, that's new. We warned you not to go big earlier, for fear your big form could be harmful to the people or enviroment around you. (The Promised of Fire's worry is a little more relevant if you actually are a ball of fire). But are you saying you couldn't be big right now, even if you wanted? Or just that some of these things are hard to think about / visualize from your current pe5rspective?

Sorry. I am pretty sure I could tUrn big, and even control it a lot more then prosaic reality would say.

What I meant is that if mom is dead. .. then I think I am the Sun in some sense, but I seem to have trouble like doing things with it. Like it's a limb that's fallen asleep or a government I can't talk to.

Huh. I wonder if assuming the position of the sun means your big form is now more grown up than you. Like, you've inherited a body all at once you don't know how to use, rather than slowly growing into one.

That or the difficulty might be that you're now tied to a physical thing, fixed in a way you weren't before.

Possibly something we can experiment with later. Possibly something we could get some clues towards from Entropy II, if the big / small thing is common across imperators.

> Huh. I wonder if assuming the position of the sun means your big form is now more grown up than you.

That makes a lot of sense.

Okay, going with :

Ability Experimenting 2/21, 2/16
Catherine 3/21, 2/16
Entropy II 1/21, 1/16
Exploration 2/21, 2/16
Help Ashley 3/21, 1/16
Job Search 0/0
Kichi Family/Pools 2/21, 1/16
Susonov Meditation 3/21, 2/16
Sword Practice 1/21, 2/16
Temple of Mom 2/21, 1/16
Visit Titovs 1/21, 1/16.
Uncommitted 1/21, 1/16.

We don't have consensus, but it seems like the most popular schedule.
I'm going to be fairly busy. I like it!

Fortitude is a good place to be busy. Hopefully we'll learn several things quickly and make some good friends to help us see what we're missing.

We don't have any particular order assigned (and it's probably not worth the effort to micromanage that) but I would recommend mixing things up a little bit. Don't say, blow all your Catherine time at once, or all the temple time, etc. Space things out.

The Titovs PowderedLight 2014/07/16(Wed)22:47 No. 584429 ID: 83bab8
File 140557607335.gif - (55.06KB , 300x200 , 1-4-84.gif )

I really think I am getting the hang of helping out. I know what laundry soap is. I know how to wash dishes. I can even use a mop without tripping now.

Cooking is a little more crazy, but I can chop veggies, and boil water. I just am not allowed to choose the spices. Even if I don't use anything that humans don't eat, apparently no one else finds cinnamon jalapenos bland and needing soy sauce, well it reminds one of the boy's of what a vampire they hang out with at School eats, but. . .

Anyway I wanted to visit the last shrine family. There's a creek, it's banks and bottom covered in tiny white crystals, that has cut its way through a tumbled slough of rocks, nothing seems to grow on those banks, and no birds or fish are in the clear water. It smells salty and the fishy smell that pervades most of fortitude changes to mildew. If Catherine tasted bright this smells dark, if Entropy's blood was sweet, this was faintly bitter, and very very salty.

The hills here must have been much steeper, maybe cliff like, before these rocks came tumbling down. Getting into Horizon from fortitude would have been a lot harder then. Though it sounds like Horizon is less than a hundred years old. If I understood the history right.

Once I am just a little father up the landslide, past a boulder the size of a house, a building that must be the Buddhist church is visible. It looks a lot like the Susonov's but darker and smaller and worn. Black tiles stand over a open building of dark walls and dirty white trim. A open door has a sign saying "visitors welcome" and a complicated series of dates and times below.

Any last minute advice before I go inside and talk to someone?

>I know what laundry soap is. I know how to wash dishes.
Lessons hopefully learned without eating either.

>and boil water
Under your own power?

>spices
Interesting. You're apparently drawn to other forms of heat. Or just intensity?

>Any last minute advice before I go inside and talk to someone?
Thinking back to Francis' advice. >>559213

It might be worthwhile to mentally prepare yourself, a little. Outline objectives: what are the things you want to accomplish here today? What might they want of you? What might you be willing to give up for your goals, what price might you place on their requests?

It's kind of difficult to be too specific in advance since we're here primarily to learn, but even getting in the right frame of mind might help you prepare for the goal / tool / exchange mindset their power operates by. If nothing else, deciding on your limits might be useful.

> Lessons hopefully learned without eating either.

I didn't eat any dishes, no. >_<

> It's kind of difficult to be too specific in advance since we're here primarily to learn, but even getting in the right frame of mind might help you prepare for the goal / tool / exchange mindset their power operates by. If nothing else, deciding on your limits might be useful.

Hmm. I am willing to give up some time and effort, and even commit to some future spending of such, but..not really anything more then that.

Err I have about 5 μ石Ք from my alowence that I could spend. Its enough to buy 3 or 4 ice cream cones.

Everything else I have I think I kind of need.

What do I want..

Well I would like to learn about the book the story about Mom was in, and why I should talk to these people before reading it.

And maybe about this "Iolithae Septimian", the Deceiver?

(Huh, link 404s. Let's try that again: >>/questarch/559213 )

>What do I want
A good place to start, that shouldn't cost us much, I'd expect. I might also add you're here to try and understand them better, but maybe that's more of a consequence of interaction than something to be traded for.

Other possible considerations are containment / dealing with the entropy-letter or the jacket, if you think either of those are still a problem. Although I'm not sure we want to start off asking for magical favors with hazardous materials. Cost might be more than you want for an initial offering.

We're interested in what they know and how they know it; they seem to have had some contact with Excrusians and possibly Imperators as well. We're also interested in their advice about weaponry and what they think our challenges are, if they figure out what you are as well as who.
Finally, they were said to be good at handling curses, which may be important for getting a sword. That would be if you feel like attempting to get one from out in the Outside where the ruins and remnants are full of valuable, but hazardous, things.

>>584431
>If nothing else, deciding on your limits might be useful.
No long-term commitments. Helping with this or that thing is fine, but it should be well-defined help with an unambiguous and finite goal.

>>584557
>Other possible considerations are containment / dealing with the entropy-letter or the jacket, if you think either of those are still a problem. Although I'm not sure we want to start off asking for magical favors with hazardous materials. Cost might be more than you want for an initial offering.
Eh, maybe not the kind of thing you want to be talking about with people you don't already trust. Especially if we want to keep the chances low that our presence here is part of a Big Ask on their part.

A room, darkly PowderedLight 2014/07/21(Mon)00:26 No. 585042 ID: 58716f
File 140592760390.jpg - (14.66KB , 340x270 , il_340x270_314061539.jpg )

A young man sits in one corner of the room, whittling a hunk of wood with a small black bladed dagger.
A girl Jasper's age sits reading a thick hardback and scribbling notes on a piece of paper already dark with ink and graphite.
Both of them seem to be somehow staring at Jasper even as they continue to work.

Jasper takes a couple of steps more into the room and clears her throat, "Hel..." She starts only to be interrupted by the girl. "Do you love Heaven, Jasper?" She speaks with a casual precision unsuited to her age. The ravens in the stark ink drawing behind her take off, silently crawing.

"Wha? What? Of . ." Jasper starts to reply and then stops, pausing, listening to something only she can hear.

Okay, voices. Why do I feel like this is dangerous? Like I need you?

Because it obviously is, you were made the moment you stepped in the door and that is probably because someone or something else is informing them.

"I'm sorry, that's a little bit personal of a question to ask someone when I don't know who you are, and when I also don't know who it is that informed you who I am. May I have full introductions as to the other present and involved parties here?"

>Why do I feel like this is dangerous? Like I need you?
Well, for one thing, because that's a loaded question.

It presupposes your identity, and that you have a relationship with heaven. Answering means confirming your identity (not that it's worth trying to conceal it or play dumb at the moment), and taking a position on something we're not clear about. It's also emotionally loaded and rather close to home for you- it strikes to your uncertainty about everything that happened (and exactly how much different groups / people were to blame, or what role they played).

And this is coming from people who have been described as prone to using people (and using them up) and breaking hearts, and whose power is supposedly connected to clarity of purpose or desire. Taking a position here could give them power over us (a yea or nea for or against heaven could tie us to that choice, if their powers facilitate it). Not answering definitively introduces uncertainty, which is also dangerous.

The question is loaded to put you at a disadvantage, both in how you might answer, and how it might put you mentally and/or emotionally off-balance.

>What say
If an up or down answer is dangerous, and an uncertain answer is dangerous, then maybe the best answer is a non-answer.

"How I feel about heaven was much easier to express when it was closer to home."

>someone or something else
Yeah, some guiding force would explain recognizing you, or the question that doesn't seem appropriate to the girl. Maybe you're not the only one getting outside (inside?) input on her lines. (Ashely said they had some kind of monster imprisoned, maybe it's that?).

"It seems you have the advantage of me. May I ask to whom I am speaking?"

We are all mad here. PowderedLight 2014/07/21(Mon)09:39 No. 585100 ID: 58716f
File 140596076052.jpg - (8.84KB , 207x244 , images (3).jpg )

The ravens shift until the the spaces between them become the pink stained teeth of a gruesome smile. A smile that laughs at just how much evil there is in the world. How quickly the righteous take up the tools of the fallen.

"This girl's name is Isabella Titov, daughter of Iskandar Titov, heir to the Titov Temple." The girl says, closing her book.

Bubbles of pure white appear on the painting, like salt thrown on a watercolor. They drive away the pink, leaving only an ink drawing of a stark, leaf-less tree with three ravens playing.

"Jason is the heir, devil child." The young man says rising. "If he heard you. ."

"He would do what? Beat me? Chain me? Cut out my tongue? We both know that's what the Innocent would want." Isabella replies un-worried. walking to a shelf piled with books. "You don't even have the balls to threaten me properly. Dog."

An impotent rage seems to burn within the man's eyes but he just keeps carving.

Isabella takes a thin volume titled "The Scripture of the Tablets of the Temple at the Shore, or What Must Not be Spoken" off the shelf. She places a finger to her lips and shushes the book, the knotted ties holding it shut un knotting themselves.
She opens the book and presents a page on which is written a single line: Chaos she wept; Chaos she raged.

"We are the cloth of her tears. The jailers of her rage." She says. "Did your father weep? She can see the resemblance in your cheekbones and your shoulders. You walk like him."

Did you speak, Jasper, or did she answer your question unasked? (The later would imply that she was perceptive enough to read you, or that she had some way of knowing what you're going to say, or that we discussed internally).

Isabella's speaking in the third person and her references to another support the idea that she's being guided, or controlled.

There's apparently some contentious competition of some kind between at least two factions- Isabella / what's controlling her, Jason (who considers himself heir), the Innocent (context suggests Jason wouldn't want to give him/her/it what it wants. Not clear if it's the thing with Isabella or not).

>Chaos she wept; Chaos she raged.
>We are the cloth of her tears. The jailers of her rage.
References to their heritage? They're the heirs to some kind of higher being, who created them, or endowed them. They seal / guard her or a part of her? Hard to tell distinguish how much is literal versus a legacy.

The factions maybe come from the different ways they see this 'benefactor'? Isabella communing with it, the status quo containing and/or using it?

>Did your father weep? She can see the resemblance in your cheekbones and your shoulders. You walk like him.
"He broke his heart. And my mother's. And mine. But I don't know if he wept. I may walk like him, but I don't see though his eyes." (She wants to play with double meanings? We'll give back some of our own).

"I wept."

I wish I'd said this earlier. I wasn't thinking straight - I was too worried about this visit to think its implications through - and so I didn't remember the most important thing to remember, going into it: your nature is that of sunlight and hope, and hope finds a way. Be on your guard - especially given the circumstances - but remember that these people have no real power to make you do anything. You stood against one prophecy already, when you first met Catherine; your light can shine here too.

>Jasper starts to reply and then stops, pausing, listening to something only she can hear.
If I may ask: what did you hear? Or was that just our conversation?

>Isabella's speaking in the third person and her references to another support the idea that she's being guided, or controlled.
Or that she doesn't think of herself as a person.

One thing's for sure, though: she's very good at asking leading questions, and so far it's made it easy for her to lead this conversation, too. I'm not the best conversationalist, but perhaps we should be looking for a way to brush off her next question, and switch to discussing family laundry with the boy before she can regain the initiative.

>Do you love Heaven, Jasper?
>Did your father weep? She can see the resemblance in your cheekbones and your shoulders. You walk like him.
...is she trying to narrow down what sort of Imperator we are?

> Did you speak, Jasper, or did she answer your question unasked?
I..I spoke. Sorry I got distracted. This place, it doesn't feel like Fortitude; I can feel my emotions wash into the world around me, and wash back in again. I..I think I might be stronger here, if I can master my confusion. It's hard to put what I mean in words: There's a magic here that is as much of Truth as it is of the Outside. I think Isabella might have bit off more then she can chew.

> Chaos she wept; Chaos she raged.
This isn't in English, by the way, and the translation is a little rough. In the original there is no seperate "she", and the verbs are marked "far-away immediate-experience". So you could translate it "I feel the far-away Chaos-woman-thrown tears. I feel the far-away Chaos-woman-thrown punches." to get a little of the oddness of verb form, but that gets the sentence structure totally wrong as the sentences are about Chaos, not the writer, and gah. It kind of sucks that the Curse of the Tower sill affects you and I talking.

> Hard to tell/distinguish how much is literal versus a legacy.
How do you mean?

They sure are good at getting my attention.

> If I may ask: what did you hear? Or was that just our conversation?
Just you all.

>...is she trying to narrow down what sort of Imperator we are?
Ohh.. yeah she might be.

>I think I might be stronger here, if I can master my confusion.
Agreed. That would both fit with what we've heard about the Tiltovs before, and with Isahella's apparent tactics. She's trying to keep you confused, and off balance.

>I think Isabella might have bit off more then she can chew.
I wouldn't be surprised. Still, that doesn't mean this isn't dangerous for us.

>>Hard to tell/distinguish how much is literal versus a legacy.
>How do you mean?
I mean, if the things she's saying are literally true, or if they're allegories or metaphorical, or allusions or references to the things she's actually trying to say. There's not a lot of context to make sense of it.

>>...is she trying to narrow down what sort of Imperator we are?
>Ohh.. yeah she might be.
Might be a double purpose. Questioning who you are forces you to think about it. Which results in either confusion as you struggle to define yourself (and confusion is bad here) or it results in you defining yourself in clear terms (which might help reduce you to goals / wants / purposes for their magic to deal with).

I am rather tempted to call them out on how rude it is to pre-emptively attack a visitor that didn't even come for a conflict. If they can't even respect the notion of hospitality I'm not sure there's any meaningful intercourse we can have with these people.

Well it's not like they bit me or anything. They just are being kind of annoying/creepy.

>I..I spoke. Sorry I got distracted. This place, it doesn't feel like Fortitude; I can feel my emotions wash into the world around me, and wash back in again. I..I think I might be stronger here, if I can master my confusion. It's hard to put what I mean in words: There's a magic here that is as much of Truth as it is of the Outside.
Oooooooooooh. Okay. Yeah, I think I know what you mean. I think we can work with this.

Everything's gummed up with old patterns here. Isabella's quoting stuff, showing you old books. The boy is nursing old grudges. But it's also a place where emotions matter. So what do you think of these people? Creepy? Scary? Sad? Someone you hunger to understand? Knowing how you feel towards them means knowing what we have to work with.

Meanwhile...
>Did your father weep? She can see the resemblance in your cheekbones and your shoulders. You walk like him.
I can't outdo >>585116 for a straightforward reaction to this. But as an alternative, we could always answer a question with another question. Something like... "So they [father and `she`] knew each other?"
That'd be a hint about Isabella's patroness, even if she doesn't answer.

I'd still like to give the boy a chance to get back into the conversation. Maybe ask him about the sculpture he's carving?

> Well it's not like they bit me or anything. They just are being kind of annoying/creepy.
As someone that exists within you primarily as thoughts and feelings I tell you that an attempt to destabilize and subvert your mind and emotions is an attack. They are attacking who you are instead of your physical form, but it is no less an attack.

I think that this is cowardly, misguided, excessively hostile and paranoid of them. They need to let go of their fear and hostility, you should help them with that and give them some cause for hope.

>>585434
I don't know. It's not nice exactly, but messing with / testing a Power than enters your domain isn't exactly unprecedented. And, arguably, just being who and what we are, showing up unannounced and uninvited could be interpreted as an attack.

Not that I really have any doubts as to the intentions here, but they've hardly done anything we can call out very strongly.

>>585434
>>585437
Mm. Right now what we've seen is Isabella doing the Creepy Child thing and knowing more than she should. Meanwhile the boy has done basically nothing, other than talk back to Isabella once and then shut up. Is this a place that needs better lighting? My intuition says yes. But I think the evidence is thin on the ground that any of the stuff that's happened so far is out of harmful intent, at least towards us.

"He broke his heart. And my mother's. And mine. But I don't know if he wept. I may walk like him, but I don't see though his eyes." Jasper says, starting defiantly at the creepy girl. "I wept."

Isabella smiles sadly. "No one can truly understand another. The wall between souls, the 'What is it to be a bat.' 'And in loving we would die, not as Juliet died, but as the night dies that loves the dawn.' In truly understanding another we would become them, and loose ourself." As she turns her head you see a gold and silver earring, a simple stud, that catches the light.

"Do you think you can save us? Our fate was long-ago written. To live and die in service to false hope, to have the love and truth and being of us drained, to redeem an unredeemable monster. Fortitude says work will be rewarded, but no countable infinity can fill the interval."

"Can you survive as we have?" She asks. "Or will you forget your roots and wither away like a painful daydream?"

I'm not sure if I've got this, but here's my first stab at it:

"I don't think my fate is written yet, and even if it is I am an author of fate as well and can revise.
"I wasn't coming to do battle with what you are, or were, though. I was visiting to learn, pay my respects to what is, and look for possible friends, teachers and allies. Finding out that so much of what goes on here is also what isn't is a little bit of a surprise, but hopefully not cause for conflict.
"If you don't mind my asking, what does redemption mean here?"

>>585674
I feel like the first line - the aside arguing about fate - may not go across well. Worried she'd take it as a platitude, or else as showing off. But I support re-emphasizing that we visited, not for some grand purpose, but mostly just to meet them and maybe talk about some stuff.

Come to think of it... if we really want to impress on Isabella that hope can overcome fate, I can think of a slightly better way than words, if you can manage it while carrying on a conversation at the same time. It's one we've done before, if you recall. >>/questarch/566046 Do you suppose, if we turn the conversation to more mundane things, she'd be willing to continue this conversation on the porch - get out of the stuffiness of the house a bit? Do you suppose it'd be rude to ask?

Ahh. Philosophy. She's referencing things that are actually somewhat familiar, here. Because you're different than other people (or beings) you cannot hope to understand them, without becoming them. At which point you've lost yourself, anyways. It's an argument of futility and hopelessness- that true understanding, sympathy, love aren't possible.

>Can you survive as we have?" She asks. "Or will you forget your roots and wither away like a painful daydream?
I intend to survive. But as you have? You don't seem particularly pleased with your survival, serving false hope, being drained, counting to infinity. No, not as you have, I think.

>what do
...okay, we've had the feelings of the temple's region alluded to (as much of Truth as it is of the Outside), Isabella made a direct reference to the Fortitude's region property (work will be rewarded) and the topic of conversation shifted to the impossibility of understanding / empathy and hopelessness.

To me, this really says Jasper should turn on her suffusion of hope. Actions speak louder than words, and this refutes both her points- we're sharing a genuine feeling without subsuming someone, and we're saying there is (or, really defining that there is) hope in even what appears to be a hopeless situation.

Might also serve to reinforce the Truth aspects. Even if it reinforces the outside, I'm not convinced that's a bad thing. If Isabella bit off more than she could chew already, we'd just be making things harder for her.

>a gold and silver earring, a simple stud, that catches the light
Kind of an opposite of yours. Simple instead of intricate, reflects light instead of refracting it, metal instead of crystal.

Maybe it helps her with something, the way yours helps you with light and color? Given the context, if yours was born of hope, maybe hers was created for the opposite emotion? It might even be what she was using to manipulate the ink drawing. (Maybe manipulation of shadows and the spaces between them, instead of color? An opposite means to a similar end).

There's also the fact that mother McCormick described a young girl wearing a single earring as part of an outfit of mourning. You haven't described the rest of her outfit, so I can't be sure, but loss would fits in the context of her speech. It's a guess, but maybe that's worth following up on.

You speak of loss. You know who I weep for (touch your earring). Who do you wear yours for?

"I wasn't coming to do battle with what you are, or were, though. I was visiting to learn, pay my respects to what is, and look for possible friends, teachers and allies. Finding out that so much of what goes on here is also what isn't is a little bit of a surprise, but hopefully not cause for conflict." Jasper says assuming a open, near surrendering pose. A perfume of summer grass wafts in the room, and the painting shifts again becoming a crow chick sheltered by a mother's wings.

Jasper's words and body language seem to make Isabella nervous, her eyes and lips tightening slightly. She pauses and backs up against the wall. A quiet, awkward moment is broken by a snort from the man, startling Jasper.

Trying to recover, the young goddess asks "You speak of loss. You know who I weep for (touch your earring). Who do you wear yours for?"

This seems to bring Isabella back to firmer ground. She smiles, and taunts "You don't recognize it? It marks a hero's fate: a child of two worlds, who is haunted by her mother's legacy; It marks the history threatening to come due."

Her smile turns kind and vicious at once. "It's for you."

Hmm. Openness and non-aggression seemed to disarm her, there. While needling a potential weakness gave her back her balance. She responded to your attack, or lack thereof.

I guess that might be a way to 'win' this, then. Not fighting. Leaving yourself open, bending with attacks instead of hammering home. The willow, not the oak. The heron wading in the rushes.

Sort of makes sense. She's comfortable with wants and needs, attack and taking. Tends towards spite and paranoia. We can feed that, or we can play to 'softer' emotions and leave her disarmed.

>It's for you.
Interesting. The parallels are deliberate then. Might also explain why it grants a similar ability (assuming my guess about that was right). Although she didn't need prior exposure to bind that (unless she made it now?).

Try to respond like you did before. No double meanings or attacks, be kind, earnest, and open here. Don't take umbrage at her attempt to work you up.

I appreciate the sentiment, and your concern, but I'd like to reassure you it's somewhat premature to mourn for me. I'm not threatened by my history, I've been seeking it out. It's part of the reason I'm here, actually.

(Ties back into one of the objectives you outlined for this meeting. So you deflect her attack both by being open and nice again, and by displaying a 'want' contrary to her attack. Takes the air out of it).

>>586402
>(unless she made it now?).
She's only had one opportunity; we hadn't said much about ourselves by the time she showed it to us.
>"He broke his heart. And my mother's. And mine. But I don't know if he wept. I may walk like him, but I don't see though his eyes." Jasper says, starting defiantly at the creepy girl. "I wept."

What were we sharing with her, when we said that, I wonder? "Our sorrows?" Is she about sorrows, the way we're about hopes? >>/questarch/554754

But then, that doesn't quite fit the meaning she finds in it when she says that
>It marks a hero's fate[...] the history threatening to come due.
We talked about our past tragedy, not about our future destiny.

I am trying to remember if, perhaps, we might have met Isabella before.

>>586521
I'd guess that the opposite of hopes for the future would be inevitable futures, predetermined by the past. Fates, more than sorrows, I think. Although, they're related, if past sorrows define future fates, or if yo experience sorrow at a fate that by definition does not allow hope for another outcome.

And I suppose the cause and meaning can be divorced. Our earring was crystallized by the glassmaker's hopes, but it's a symbol of mourning for Jade. Similarly, even if Isabella she wears it for Jasper, that doesn't mean it's of Jasper.

>>586551
>Similarly, even if Isabella she wears it for Jasper, that doesn't mean it's of Jasper.
Ah. That'd explain it, sure enough; it'd be the same clever double meaning as we ourselves used.

Aha. I think I've figured out the stud now: The picture we saw in the basement, of what might be little sister Senko.

"Does that mean you're in contact with my little sister? Tell her hi, sorry I haven't written to her yet, and ask her if she wants me to send her something in the mail."

"No, she doesn't need anything from you yet. She just might need a T.A. or a class president if you are interested in the position? Its still a ways off of course.˝ Isabella says her cadence making the kind words sound like a rehearsed threat.

Well, if she's been in communication with Senko, that explains the similarity in theme in the arguments. I even though to myself that this was almost practice for what she's going to bring. Guess that's no coincidence.

I'm still thinking we might want to try the nice offensive again, see if it disarms her.

>reply
"Hmm, you're right probably right. It is a ways off, and too soon to choose what I hope to be doing in school. I'll consider it, though." (Emphasizing choices and hope instead of fated outcomes for the future).

"I am glad she found someone to talk to, at least." (Forcing Isabella into a role as family or friend (or a friend of family), instead of the antagonist she's seemingly more comfortable as).

I think now is a good opportunity to ask about the book you were curious about... the one with your mom in it.

Unless you're not comfortable with the idea of talking with Isabella about that anymore.

>>587285
Maybe something like "while we're on the subject of my family and history then, there's something I wanted to ask after."

Being clear about our wants is supposed to be good when dealing with the Titovs, and not following up on our past rebuts us being afraid of the past coming due, and reasserts that we're her to learn, for help. Which disarmed her before.

Perhaps reasserting that we're here to learn, find friends, allies and teachers, and pay our respects to what is would be a good idea.
We could expand on that by saying, "I don't know as much as we need to about who mom was and what she did, or dad either. Anything you would like to share about them would be helpful. You also seem to know a fair bit about how to approach and talk to Excrusians; do you also know about the same with Imperators?"

PowderedLight 2014/08/03(Sun)09:33 No. 587772 ID: 8d213c
File 140708362738.jpg - (31.00KB , 380x250 , gossip.jpg )

"while we're on the subject of my family and history then, there's something I wanted to ask after." Jasper starts. "I don't know as much as we need to about who mom was and what she did, or dad either. Anything you would like to share about them would be helpful. You also seem to know a fair bit about how to approach and talk to Excrucians; do you also know about the same with Imperators?"

“We have stories and visions. Hints and allegations. But Imperators have no reason to show themselves, Excrusians often like being noisy. Canceling tv shows, casting shadows over the sun, tearing down theologies. While the Imperators hold their secrets tight to the chest. We have secret knowledge of course. Curiosity has been our doom as much as love or fear or hope.” Isabella says standing taller, more sure.

“But the thing about secret knowledge is that while knowing is dangerous. Sharing is what brings attention.” She smiles.

“What can you do for us? Or rather, what do you think you can do for us.” She says smirking, pride at knowing a secret Jasper does not.

>Imperators have no reason to show themselves, Excrusians often like being noisy
Almost an amusing dichotomy. The established powers, part of creation, are the hidden ones while the interlopers from void are the obvious.

>Sharing is what brings attention
You already have my attention. And possibly, any attention that follows me. A price already paid, as it were.

>What can you do for us? Or rather, what do you think you can do for us.
I suspect you could do a great deal for them. More than that information is worth, certainly. The question is more, what can we do that appropriately reciprocates what's she asking?

Offering to save them is worth more than she's offering. But perhaps... would she care to experience hope that isn't false?

Going with the idea of offering suffusion of hope, instead of using it as an attack or counter.

>>587772
Isabella loves her dangerous questions.

Sometimes the only thing more dangerous is an answer.

Whatever we say here, let's remember our spending limits.
>>584455
>Hmm. I am willing to give up some time and effort, and even commit to some future spending of such, but..not really anything more then that.
>Err I have about 5 μ石Ք from my alowence that I could spend. Its enough to buy 3 or 4 ice cream cones.
>Everything else I have I think I kind of need.
Let's also try to keep it closed-ended.

>>587781
>But perhaps... would she care to experience hope that isn't false?
I like this, although I wonder if it's the kind of thing that she'll laugh about. Then again... these folks have a problem with feeling hopeful and real. Maybe the potential silliness of the offer doesn't matter compared to the fact that it's a way for her to get medicated without gobbling Outside Dust.

>Maybe the potential silliness of the offer
I was thinking there's a sort of appropriateness in offering a taste of hope for the future in exchange for a glimpse into past events. It's not an exact equivalence, but there's a kind of symmetry, there. Future for past, openness for secrets.

That and maybe, I'm not sure she's allowed to turn down something she as good as asked for, earlier. Titov magic is about the exchange of wants and needs for prices set, isn't it?

The hope infusion takes a while to build up, So maybe I should keep Isabella talking or something as I get it ready?
Shouldn't take too long. One more of her speeches I think.

I suppose stalling is simpler when the opposition is so speech-susceptible.

Ideas: if you wanted to stay on topic, you could comment on the inherent irony in secrets being better kept in the sun than in shadow. She'd probably jump at the chance to slander the Imperators, or wax on their hypocrisy. Or we could raise the point about their having already caught attention (as if we're haggle down the cost they would incur) and let her rebut it. I like that one less though, as it comes across as more of a threat, or has worse implications at least (I've already messed things up for you by coming here).

Or you could quibble over the wording of her request. It's not a matter of what we can do for them, or even what we think can do for them. It's a matter of what we're willing to do for them. You could interpret her question as a trap to pay to trick you into offering to pay too high a price- naming everything you're capable of (or that you think you're capable of), rather than making a price clear in your heart. She'd respond to that, in some way (pleased or disappointed you caught it, waxing on about the nature of prices?).

"If curiosity is so dangerous for you and sharing secrets is what makes it dangerous, your main line of 'business' here in town seems like it's an outright hazard that may be avoidable. Has your family considered operating a business venture of some other kind that relies upon your secrets less? It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to take up some kind of craft or making a set of trading relationships with the abilities you can call on."

Speaking. PowderedLight 2014/08/04(Mon)21:31 No. 588173 ID: d87b1e
File 140721309137.jpg - (4.12KB , 139x160 , images.jpg )

> "If curiosity is so dangerous for you and sharing secrets is what makes it dangerous, your main line of 'business' here in town seems like it's an outright hazard that may be avoidable. Has your family considered operating a business venture of some other kind that relies upon your secrets less? It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to take up some kind of craft or making a set of trading relationships with the abilities you can call on."

"My brother does as you suggest. Carving his little ravens. Selling them like a common merchant. But few ask for the secrets you do. Few would even know what to ask. I hear that on the Earth that was, magic and sorcery are rare and hidden, but you questions are deeper then that. Even in a land of wonders, the truth is sickly and careful, and stronger then a storm. And we have practice not speaking of the sacred."

It's a subtle change, nothing looks or even feels differnt, but I can feel my power soaking into the wood and dirt and flesh and air.

It is calming and invigorating, like suckling at my mothers breast, listening to her heart beat. It takes a little while for Isabella to notice, and for me to notice that she had continued to talk.

"They..no..I..no they...we." and something breaks in side Isabella. "You loved her didn't you. You really loved her. So stupid.." she mutters in my general direction, confused and hurt. "What..what. Did. You. Do?" she whispers her confusion changing to cold anger.

Not exactly pleased, is she. Downside with presenting instead of offering I suppose. Still, I think this might still work.

How's the rest of the shrine reacting? The ink drawing? The brother?

>What. Did. You. Do.
"I thought of something I could do for you. Something true and secret. Something sacred you did speak of.

Hope."

>You loved her didn't you. You really loved her. So stupid..
>hurt
"...you really did weep for me."

(Showing actual concern for the pain she's feeling in regards to you when you turned on the emotions on).

Kind of nicely turns her words around. Presents what you're offering both equal to what you're asking, and as something she asked for. And the second bit is to disarm her anger by trying to comfort her pain, and turning what she tried to use as an attack before into something genuine.

"Sorry, I mean to offer it as a gift: Hope, possibly enough to break the fate that binds you to annihilation if you want it."

Make it clear that if she does not want it you will stop.

The Tower Part One PowderedLight 2014/08/07(Thu)02:48 No. 588542 ID: d87b1e
File 140740491860.png - (606.02KB , 600x942 , tarot_card_ii___the_high_priestess_by_rotegruetze-.png )

Jasper starts to answer, but stops, caught up in looking at the ink painting behind Isabella.
It depicts a crow speaking. In that same strange script the book was in is written: "Before the Names of Earth, was Chaos."
A challenge, to the Gods of Earth.

A "Shit!" Is yelled from behind you, startling both you and Isabella. "Isabella take your plaything to School and get the rest of the Family. I'm going to be at the Lower Shrine." Her brother continues, as the girl grabs Jasper with surprising force, dragging her out the door.

"The King of the World rages no more." The raven silently speaks.

Isabella is dragging Jasper to Horizon, as lightning strikes behind them.

The raven's script echoes in her mind. "The King of the World rages no more."

Jasper can feel the words trying to escape her Head, trying to tear out and shape the world.

Isabella says "Don't speak them. But most of all do not forget them. They are sacred."

>The Tower
Oh, the disaster card. That's reassuring. Although it's mediated by a high priestess, here.

If I had to guess, we inadvertently woke something up? Something that shouldn't be up, if the brother is going to deal with it, and Isabella is going to collect others for reinforcements.

>dragging
Increase your pace, so she's not dragging you. A simple, non-verbal assent. That you're trying to help, not being compelled.

Picking up the pace, I match the run a few hundred meters then drop to a jog, then run again pace Isabella is setting.

She seems to be in more pain then I am, but I can't quite run fast enough to keep her from dragging me. Though when she drops to a jog I can keep up.

It only takes a couple of these before we are past the rubble and into Horizon proper. With its glaring gargoyles and looming mists.

Isabella looks small and scared. A lost child.

And then a cruel and jeering smile comes to her face and a ...metal box with arms and legs and a pulsating pink mass in the center appears and directs us through the nearly empty streets and halls.

Its not easy telling if we are inside or not, I can't see the sky because of the mist, or buildings the lean towards one another, and sometimes clouds or rain from indoors.

I can feel my lips start to move, when Isabella looks at me. "Don't speak them." she says, forcing a piece of paper into my hands. I scribble down “The King of the World rages no more.” over and over again, frantically, trying to get the words _out_.

II follow her following the box, and it isn't long before we are in the court of Rex Mundi.

A tall tall man sits at a throne, a black scarab, upside down, etched on to his throne, and painted into his clothes, and set upon every surface in the room not worn by his guests.

At his right sits Entropy II, in his blindingly clean and white clothes.

Across from him is what can only be the rest of the Titov’s. Pale skinned, and dark of hair of eyes.

The tall man sneers and gestures with his hand. The box corrodes and rots before Jasper’s eyes, the pink mass rotting away into the wind with a foul smell.

“Father!” Entropy II yells, terrified. “Its her words!”

“Lies, all they fight with is lies.” the tall man growls, gestures, and time starts stuttering, jumping forward in pieces, flowing then jumping ahead without reason.

Suddenly, Isabella is bloody and her clothes burnt.

Suddenly everyone’s moved, the men and women that must be the rest of Isabella’s family are rushing for the door.

Suddenly the room is empty except for the tall man and Entropy II.

“Please, Father, stop this. You know this is what she wanted. You could have killed me in a hundred ways each day! Remember the Plan!” the young man is pleading with the tall man as a strange rage twists his swarthy features.

The smell of sulfur and ozone fills the room. I can feel the strange skipping sensation try to grab hold of me, but I slip away from it.

I am the Sun, I Rise Anew.

>Isabella looks small and scared. A lost child. And then a cruel and jeering smile comes to her face
Huh. You're not the only one who wears another face, here.

Okay, so it looks like most the Titovs were away at some audience with Entropy Senior when you came to visit triggered things. Which seems like a hell of a coincidence. Did this 'she' arrange for your arrival and their being away to coincide? It you woke up something that was sealed, that suggests it already had some influence.

>Isabella is bloody and her clothes burnt
>Entropy II pleading
...really don't like the way that's going. You tried to help Isabella, and Entropy II is a friend (or is someone who could be a friend, at least). Their getting hurt because you tried to offer her something isn't right. And if you inadvertently caused this, that means you have a responsibility to make the outcome just. You're in not in a good position to oppose entropy directly, but I kind of feel like our displeasure should be felt. You do not approve.

>Lies, all they fight with is lies.
Possibly you could call him out on that. You fight with truths, yet you carry her words. That's not a lie. (Assuming his denial or disbelief is part of the current problem).

...although you would have to convey that without speaking, since you can't speak, while trying to keep the words in. (Some dramatic gesture? Communication via symbols or archetype almost seem appropriate given the powers here, and tarot theme).

Actually, are we still bleeding hope, or did that wear off, or did we leave what we'd built up at the shrine?

>I am the Sun, I Rise Anew.
Nice. Handy aspect of your nature, there.

PowderedLight 2014/08/08(Fri)10:37 No. 588721 ID: 1590e8

(This was playing as you entered https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=NwnlU4jPJY2IogTQpIEY&url=http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%
3DUGFFl38STBk&cd=1&ved=0CBwQtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNE4Mm8SpfYcWrQ16uvy3Ahvf_WRgQ&sig2=V5qdsvVN90R8B0LJMmaFnw )

(Mix - Demons & Wizards - Crimson King + Lyrics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDC0rH6MX0s&list=RDnDC0rH6MX0s is playing now.)

> Nice.
Yes, yes it is.

> Calling him out.
Not sure what that would achieve?

> Hope.
It's hard to keep that going as I move. I can turn it on again though, I've got my hooks into here, I guess.

> Displeasure.

Yeah. I am not happy. Not sure who is really to blame here, though. I think something /big/ is happening.

>Not sure what that would achieve?
Probably nothing. It would only change the course if his actions hinged on believing they were lying. Which probably isn't the case. There's more at work here than that.

>hope?
No, I doubt that would fix or diffuse the situation. I was just wondering if we'd left the light on.

And yeah, I'd agree this looks big. Problem is we don't understand what's going on, and there's so much of your own capabilities unexploded. Makes doing anything very difficult, and possibly unwise. I don't like being stuck as a witness, again.

And if the words are still there, you're effectively mute, too.

Actions speak louder than words maybe. Entropy is lashing out. Maybe you could impose yourself? Move so you're standing in front of Isabella (or did she leave with her family?) or besides Entropy II. I don't think you can actually protect either of them from him, but maybe you can get him not to strike.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no... I'm pretty sure things here are not going to be resolved with a ray of hope and friendliness: We are in the stronghold of conflict, and he is set on conflict.
You are the sun, you rise anew, and you don't have patience for being abused like this. If he wants to be rude, well... I think the situation calls for a little cold certainty.

>I think the situation calls for a little cold certainty
...I have to say I'm not sure I like the sound of that at all. We haven't practiced working with Jasper when she's cold practically at all, and now seems a very bad time for unexpected consequences, or unexpected reactions on her part.

And if you're suggesting using the cold-eyes version of the hope aura- if we don't like where this is headed, enforcing "the future is already written" seems like it would only cement it. And even if cold-hope would reverse what we did before (assuming we're even right about our having triggering this) we're in the wrong region at the moment.

I'm not so sure those objections matter as much as you think they do: For starters, there is supposed to be a plan where we don't have a conflict with Entropy here and now and being able to see our way through to its end with our maximum benefit would work really well here. Further, Entropy is weakened after having just exercised his powers against the Titovs, and probably us as well, and his son really doesn't want this fight to happen at all either, so I'm not certain he even can win against us.

A fight is a destructive thing we generally don't want though, and you're possibly right that there's no way we can win either without the benefit of the other aspect of our power. So my second thought is:
"A plan, you had a plan to use me without my foreknowledge. Pray tell me, what was it you hoped to accomplish? If your hope is enough I would be disposed to compensate you for the difference."

>A plan, you had a plan to use me without my foreknowledge
I'm not sure we had any indication the plan Entropy II mentioned involved us at all. From the context, I assumed it was with regards to the unnamed power at work here, and Entropy not killing his son.

...and I'm still not sure if speech is even an option, or if Jasper is still trying to hold those dang words in.

No, when I came back from being vanished the paper I had writen it down on didn't come back with me. Given what Isabella and Entropy II said I think that destruction triggered things, but that seems to have let out the pressure that tempting me to speak them.

I don't like Entropy I, but I think don't like the thing under the shrine worse.

Oh, nice. Entropy's attack left you unharmed, but purged the hold she had on you. ...I wonder if that was intentional on his part?

>I don't like Entropy I, but I think don't like the thing under the shrine worse.
Fair.

Still, he's the one we're in a position to maybe do something about or influence, at the moment.

I gave us one option: Trying to intervene in whatever it is that's making Entropy focus on his son terrifyingly enough that he's begging for his life. A little cold certainty I figure is exactly what we need to make the most of our, and Entropy II's, options and abilities to come out of this with a minimum of damage.

Someone didn't like that option, so I came up with a second option of trying to distract him from his focus upon his son by demanding apology and compensation for our involvement in this mess. This option does seem iffy in terms of possibly getting Entropy angry at us instead (or as well).

If you don't like these plans, and of the two I think I like the first better, come up with another please.

I kind of like the stand between Entropy and Entropy. Also it might be time to go Big or go home, and I don't know how to go home.

And honestly I think some hope might be a good thing here. It backfired at the shrine because giving a prisoner hope sort of helps them mess with their captors.

But here. . here I think some hope might do a works of good.

So unless you guys think it's a terrible idea, I'm going to get between the Entropys and start becoming (Controlled) nuclear fire.

Thoughts.

...go for it, girl. I'm not sure hope will work here, but I think it has a better chance of working than anti-hope.

This is Horizon, too. Remember how we talked about strategies to function, before. Going big (literally or not) is the coping strategy. Be the monster among monsters, great and terrible to behold. Confidence and power.

Kind of fitting to wrap up this sequence by playing your own card- The Sun.

Another idea I had (not sure if it will still fit the mood during, or after, you do your sun-thin) but maybe you could make a point of formally thanking Entropy for releasing you from the hold of her words? Would certainly throw a wrench in the tone here, and it reinforces his position of power when he's feeling challenged, and gives him a way to back down without losing face (yes, that's why I lashed out. I meant to do that).

The Tower, The Beginning of the End. PowderedLight 2014/08/15(Fri)16:02 No. 589581 ID: 00b2db
File 140814372644.jpg - (101.19KB , 546x917 , The Moon.jpg )

I start to let go of my human-ish form, burning from the inside out.

It feels good.

"I think there's still hope! Hope that we can all be OK!" says Jasper her voice cracking from fear, from confusion, from air so bombarded with light, with energy that atomic nuclei are ripped bare, no longer a simple gas, but a plasma, lighting-coiled unending-self-moving.

Lord Entropy, Rex Mundi snarls backing up. "Jasper. Reigina of Hope and the Sun. I guess I should have paid attention to just who her heralds were."

As he gestures in contempt a stream of blood is is flicked off his hands, onto me, it sizzles, oh so sweet, so so so sweet.

It's much better fresh, way better then the lollipops, or the letter. With it comes images, feelings, thoughts:

I see buildings, beautiful monuments to justice and peace, covered in blood and reduced to rubble. I feel a husband's love turn into hate and exploitation. I see kids spray painting the church they were baptised in. I see conquerors build their temples over the conquered, as they justify their slavery with honey-ed words. And behind this all I see a smile.

His smile.

I see shadows. Shadows of bicycles, of people, of towns. Some created in instant with a flash of power. Others fading away over decades or centuries. I feel the seeds of their own endings in the righteous and the evil. I hear echoes of the languages lost into the void, of whole kinds of animal and plant gone, vanished. And behind it all is a rage.

His rage.

I feel heart after heart broken by cruel truths, or crueler lies. I feel a woman look up at her brother, killed by the British, knowing there will be no justice. I see a boy getting called "fag" by his peers. I feel a little girl's heart break as her father ignores the water color she painted. And behind it all is an laugh.

His laugh.

My stomach growls in renewed hunger. I can feel his evil, his raw malice. How much better the world would be without him.

The younger Entropy is doing something, drawing something from his belt.

>_

Two interesting points from Entropy's reaction. First of all, he apparently didn't recognize who you were until now. That's a surprising level of carelessness or recklessness for a being of his stature, even if indiscriminate anger or violence would suit his nature. It's notable than one Imperator can even catch another unawares like that- the sun isn't particularly suited to sneaking up on anyone.

Secondly, he backed up. You're in his realm, his region, his court, yet he still snarls and retreats when you reveal yourself. That was unexpected, to say the least. We may not be at as much of a disadvantage as I would have expected. (Unless that's deliberate, and he's goading us).

>How much better the world would be without him.
There are a few big problems to this line of thinking.

The first: what does the world become without him? When an imperator dies, what they represent vanishes from the world, becomes incomprehensible. Creation came apart at the seams without a sun. What does it becomes without entropy? How far does that go? Things don't wind down, or break? Everything continues until it's forced to not? Practical immortality- everything lives forever if not killed? Would people still age or change in that world? Would anything new even be possible, or would ay hope or creativity for the future stagnate, buried in the unceasing past? How far is his domain- would death still make sense in a would without entropy?

Yes, he represents terrible things, but I can't say with any degree of confidence the world would become a hell or paradise if that was removed. Or that it would continue to function, at all.

Secondly: Entropy deliberately flicked that blood at you. His first action since becoming aware of your presence- that's significant. Why did he do that? Did he hope to overwhelm or corrupt you in some manner? Possible, but given Entropy II's thoughts on how the blood would affect you when we discussed it previously, I doubt it. What I see as more likely- is he trying to provoke a reaction from you?

Possibly because if you tried to remove him, he expects he could win. He'd rather fight you (no fighting entropy, it wears all things down) than succumb to hope (hope persists, in spite of entropy. That's the point. Hope doesn't mean anything if there's no counter-force).

Or possibly, because if you tried to consume him, there's no way you could do that without changing yourself. What would you become with him? As bad as he is, the rise of a blood red sun might be worse.

All in all, I think trying to remove him from the picture right now would be a bad idea. Even if he does make the world ugly.

>the moon
Shines with the borrowed light of the sun. We had less of an effect than we wanted, we're weaker? Or we're just not at full strength yet, building towards the sunrise? And the card depicts the scarab with the sun. That could be seen as a bad omen for us- the scarab emblem is Entropy's- his holding the sun means power or control over us. Then again, his symbol was an inverted, black scarab. This one is right side up and illuminated. Khepri, rebirth, sunrise. Our symbol, not his.

Really could go either way from here. Ambiguous portents.

>also
Remember, your hope aura takes time to fully kick in. You hoped it would be able to change the course here, but if it's going to work, it probably hasn't been long enough, yet.

>Entropy II
I'm torn here. He might be doing something to diffuse the situation, or he might be taking advantage of your distracting his father to make his own preemptive play or attack. Do we let him act, or do we need to stall him as much as his father?

...I suppose if we're trusting to hope to fix this situation, we have to have faith in that. Trust that a good outcome is possible, and hope that he's going to further it.

Heh. It's tempting. Entropy the Elder is a big ol' booger that the world would probably be better without. And he'd be pretty tasty.

But on the other hand, every hint we have points to this having been dear old Dad's hope all along. If there's anyone that can gobble up an Evil King of the World, it's someone like us, and he's well-acquainted us with the flavor. The whole situation is inauspicious; it seems multiple Enemies of the World have contributed to setting it up, even if they probably didn't know how it'd happen. And just as important: what would Junior think, if we were to gobble up his dad right in front of him? That'd suck. We know firsthand how much that'd suck.

So we shouldn't eat Lord Entropy. Don't do that. If nothing else, his son doesn't deserve it.

But maybe just a lick...

Would the world be better without him? Possibly. This misses an important question: Without him, how much less of the world would be at all?

The Tower, End of Introductions PowderedLight 2014/08/17(Sun)13:02 No. 589867 ID: ff4834
File 140830573988.jpg - (133.55KB , 200x346 , justice_rx.jpg )

Right..right.

But he is right there, and smells so good.

A Figure appears in the doorway, behind me. Its kind of nice to be able to see all around me.

It looks like a prince or general, handsome, tall and righteous. "You called, young Master?" He says bowing.

----

Hang on, this is confusing. My instincts, my self, is very clear that if I can get anything in my mouth/stomach I can digest it. Anything..but my Mother and Father both were fairly clear that killing an Imperator with out a Abhorrent Weapon hasn't ever happened.

I think I am missing some sort of subtlety here.

Oh skies above, he smells delicious. I really think if I started licking him I would just eat him up.

>Digest anything
>Abhorrent weapon needed to kill Imperiator.
He'd probably end up alive in your stomach, and get to cut his way out of you, or something, unless eating him/digesting him would count as an Abhorrent weapon.
...Have you heard of a Primidorial being able to eat Imperiators and what happened next? Might be useful as a potential outcome...

>justice, reversed
Fuuuuuuck. That can mean... something unfair or unjust happening, obviously. Or a failure to understand why something is happening, or to take responsibility. (Justice is all about causality, after all. Cause and effect). And given what's happening, it makes all too much sense if we're missing something important, or that we don't understand our own role.

Nevermind the fact that justice is something you stand for. One of your own standards inverted hardly seems favorable.

Only gets worse if the card represents the figure we allowed Entropy II to summon. The righteous man not here to balance the scales, but upset them further.

>Mother and Father both were fairly clear that killing an Imperator with out a Abhorrent Weapon hasn't ever happened
>I think I am missing some sort of subtlety here.
...your father's bow being one, I assume?

Possible resolution: digestion isn't necessarily killing. It's converting one thing to another. That by which we take something outside of ourself and make it part of ourself. A star isn't an engine of destruction, but of fusion. My suspicion is that you wouldn't so much kill Entropy as change him, or make him part of yourself.

Or... other loop holes. Is there a limit to Entopy? An edge? The blood never stops, for one. If you couldn't ever fit all of him inside, you'd never kill him by eating. Like drinking from a faucet.

I still think trying to consume him is a bad idea, though.

>what do
Options. We've already played the hope card. It hasn't worked, yet. Being big seems to have prevented Entropy from striking, but it also let Entropy II put another (possibly ominous) piece on the board. We still have... the ability to manipulate light? I'm not sure what exactly we could do with that that would help, but we're generating a hell of a lot of light right now.

Can you speak, like this? One of the simplest options might be to ask Entropy II what he wants to happen here. If he opens up (due to the stress and the effects of hope?), we might be able to bind that hope into something relevant to resolving this.

Or uh, if a lick is too risky as a weird way to immobilize someone... maybe a hug?

>I think I am missing some sort of subtlety here.
A memory springs unbidden to mind. >>/questarch/565309
>If you didn't want to eat her, that kiss wouldn't have turned out like it did, and she wouldn't be glaring at my sibling. What you don't want is to hurt her, and if you do it right, she might just survive. Even thrive.
>Whose arm is this? Yours right? Whose is it as I move it? What if I order you to grab something? What about the lice that live on its skin? The cells flaking off into the air? The germs trying to grow with in it? The food I eat to power it? Your light that powered the plants that became my food? My parents that protected me, and taught me? The pools that make my lively hood? The parishioners who pay us? The fishermen that catch the fish that feed the people that pay us? The ships that brought humans to fortitude in the first place? The rocks that hold us up here, right now?
>Ownership and identity seem simple at first..but they exist only as ..simplifications. Truth is formless.
If I had to guess, I'd say that to devour evil means to make it cease to be what it is, and thereby to transform it into something more suitable to being a part of you.

>Oh skies above, he smells delicious. I really think if I started licking him I would just eat him up.
Ah. Nevermind, then.

>>589884
>Can you speak, like this?
We live in a place where everyone's mutually intelligible. I'm sure there's some way to communicate. I trust Junior's motives more than those of his dad, which means he's the one to ask - something along the lines of "what are you doing and do you need Help" - but because I trust Junior's motives more than those of his dad, that also means I'm not sure I want to distract him, inauspicious symbols aside.

The one who just arrived. You said they are wearing a prince/general outfit? What color is it?

Suggestion 2014/08/18(Mon)07:56 No. 590008 ID: 4b571b

>inauspicious symbols
>I trust Junior's motives more than those of his dad
You know, I wonder what it says that our impulse is to trust the person who was represented by the devil. Usually that represents deception of some kind, doesn't it? Although, in this context, maybe the bondage is more significant, or his status of the prince of darkness, besides the king.

It might also signify the threat he represents, or why Entropy would want to do away with him in the first place. The devil is a betrayer, he who turned on his lord and father.

It's kind of wierd that the devil card is really describing the Dark, at least mostly.

And I think The Emperor and the Devil might be about both of them.

I kind of think they are kind of the for me until I can grow a skin again. Sorry.

>prince/general outfit? What color is it?
White, with black and red trim. Entropy's symbol (the scarab inverted) is on his breast pocket. He carries a shining shield on his

So right now I am trying to stay in the center of the room and keep everyone away from everyone else while maybe thanking E1 and/or asking E2 what he is doing.

Thoughts?