Talking PowderedLight 2014/05/02(Fri)09:21 No. 572884 ID: 908033
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I sit near the base of the statue looking up at its face.
It's not quite right, the nose is too high and the hair is sort of too fancy and not fancy enough at the same time. Though maybe she dressed up to visit the island? That would explain why she is wearing something closer to what her ministers usually dressed in then her battle clothes or her court uniform.
Still the way the morning light catches on the white stone and the firm but kind smile on her face remind me of her .. certainty. She knew what was right, and loved that justice until it glowed from her.
Everything was so simple when she was there. Sure sometimes I wanted something and she didn't give it to me but was right about those things, in the end. She knew what was right, what was wrong.
I see Mother McCormick approaching as she sweeps off the steps of the temple. She looks up at Mom's statue. "Hmm. I must admit I don't know the proper way to address you. Or exactly who you are. I was warned to expect someone. . but you aren't them, even if the resemblance is striking. 'Angels have peers/sisters but no masters/parents'" She quotes speaking the true tongue of Heaven.
I blink, both at her words and her speaking the true tongue. I had thought it was forbidden to humans by the curse of the Tower.
"Sorry. It's our job to be confusing sometimes, and us priests can forget to stop doing it sometimes. If you want to talk or listen or be in silence, all three are welcome here."
I open my mouth, but even with your help it's hard to organize what I want to say. There is just so much I want to say and am afraid of saying. Somehow it feels like if I just don't talk about Mother maybe she will still be okay.
I shake my head and smile slightly. "It's no problem. I am not sure why I am here exactly. I want to remember who she was. Maybe see some sides of her I couldn't back.." my throat almost seizes as a sob crushes my words. "Back..back. . When she was.." I close my eyes and force it out. "..she was alive."
(More coming but feel free to ask/say things)

>It's not quite right
Hmm. That's the thing about art- any representation is going to be imperfect. Even ignoring limitations of the medium or human skill, it'll be influenced by how the artist perceived her, and what they tried to convey. Naturally, what she meant to them wouldn't be exactly the same as what she meant to you.

>I had thought it was forbidden to humans by the curse of the Tower.
What's that? Forbidden like they aren't supposed to, or forbidden like they can't? In the later case, that might imply she's not exactly human. Or that this curse no longer applies or holds weight (or is being enforced) after what happened to the world.

>I must admit I don't know the proper way to address you. Or exactly who you are.
That's really the problem you're having, and part of the reason you're here. You don't exactly know who you're supposed to be, now, or how to be it. (We do have some ideas, but they're still kind of big and non-specific).

A more literal response- you're Jasper. (I don't see the point in insisting on formal titles, here. Unless she actually asks for them, and you can indulge in the full litany of court titles).

PowderedLight 2014/05/02(Fri)13:22 No. 572904 ID: 00b2db
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> Hmm. That's the thing about art- any representation is going to be imperfect. Even ignoring limitations of the medium or human skill, it'll be influenced by how the artist perceived her, and what they tried to convey. Naturally, what she meant to them wouldn't be exactly the same as what she meant to you.

That makes sense.

> What's that? Forbidden like they aren't supposed to, or forbidden like they can't? In the later case, that might imply she's not exactly human. Or that this curse no longer applies or holds weight (or is being enforced) after what happened to the world.

One of the fights between the Light and the Dark if am remembering right. I think an agent of Heaven got involved too, but mom didn't really explain, just that humanity is normally fairly protected, so even though Science is dangerous to the "ontological inte..integrity" of the prosaic world they are allowed to do it, but some humans were trying to get into heaven but would have just broken the sky which was what the dark wanted and almost tricked us into making happen? The Light was able to twist the falling of the tower into a diaspora, each level becoming a different tribe of people with its own history and language hopefully keeping humanity from coordinating enough to do projects that would risk the survival of the species. Which also mollify the Angels who were worried about security after Lucifer's Insurrection.

Mom did warn me to be careful dealing with humans, as a lot of Imperators with think of me as weak if I am nice to them, and the Light will hate me if I am mean.

This all me quoting stories I only half understand though. I was more interested in hearing Mom talk about flying to Mars to see my uncle.

Oh. The tower of Babel. Yes, if Celestial was the tongue humanity lost then, it is kind of odd she knows it.

I wonder if the universe's contraction countetacted some of the scattering?

Probably not a problem we need to worry about (it may not even be a problem), but interesting.

>I blink, both at her words and her speaking the true tongue. I had thought it was forbidden to humans by the curse of the Tower.

It's the sort of question we should be forwarding in mail to heaven, when we start clearing out some of the accumulated to-do list items (which we haven't compiled into a single list yet). Risking the wrong decision from ignorance is a more foolish idea than asking the people who would know I'd figure.

Introducing yourself as Jasper does seem quite appropriate, along with a warning not to ask for the rest of it because you don't want to take all day. Implying she shouldn't dig too deep ought to work unless you want to have a conversation about those deeper topics. However, we do need some guidance on what to expect here from Heaven apparently, so let's stick to topics you're sure humans should know about for now unless McCormick isn't human.

Here's an idea: Ask about normal grieving rituals and practices. This is something she should know a fair bit about and have useful experience with.

Should I tell her I am Jade's daughter. And who my father is? She seems to know I am related, but..

>>572961
Oh, right. The obvious decision.

Well, practically, if you plan on using this place to help your connection to your mother and to help you understand your own abilities / nature as the apparent sun, honesty would probably help. If you've got a wall up, it'll be in the way.

Of course, there are potential drawbacks to openness. For instance, there's the possibility she gets all worship-y, or tries to turn the temple to you (third paragraph here >>572754 would be my advice to try and talk sense out of that outcome), or sort of closes off as a helpful person to you if your relationship fundamentally changes. Revealing Dad also has obvious risks of alienation.

...overall, I'd still lean towards honesty. Hiding now seems like second guessing why we came here. And hiding the truth doesn't feel right in this place.

I'd tell her.

> Should I tell her I am Jade's daughter. And who my father is? She seems to know I am related, but..

I wouldn't bring it up, and what to tell her would depend on what she's asking for I'd say.

Mou! Well I guess, what's the point of multiple advisers if they always agreed.

>[...]Well I guess, what's the point of multiple advisers if they always agreed.

I could back up my proposal to avoid declaring ourself Jasper Irinka, heir to Jade:
-We don't know the full stance of what is and isn't permitted with respect to subjects you know may be sensitive like the language of heaven, and we need to find out the party line before we make a mistake that would get held against us
-Who or what Ms McCormick herself is happens to be something you know little about
-What she has already said could indicate your mother was playing fast and loose with some of heaven's rules for reasons we don't know and you don't want to get caught in a major political problem
-You don't know her loyalties and affiliations, or even exactly what she has to do here now that mother is gone

I would stay away from discussing politically-sensitive topics. Since you don't even know what the full list of those is we have to be careful to avoid everything that could be one of them. We should avoid directly talking about who we are and who your family was, and name yourself as, 'Jasper, just Jasper for now.' If she knew your mother had a daughter and what that daughter's name was that should very strongly imply that you are avoiding politically sensitive discussion. Even if she didn't know about your name it should imply it, without requiring you to lie about who you are.

Well, I already mostly made my arguments. But I'll add:

>what to tell her would depend on what she's asking for
I'd think her casual statement of ignorance as to who we are to be a kind of compromise- a way of saying I'd like to know, but I'm not asking per se in case I'm not supposed to know or you don't wish to answer.

>toe the party line / subjects permissible
>political stuff
>playing fast and loose with some of heaven's rules
If Jade keeping Jasper a secret even from her peers (and her priestess?) is any indication, the worst fuax pas we could offend heaven with is likely our very existence (we're the product of her sleeping with the enemy). Followed or superseded by our association with her death.

Fundamentally, I'd think there's a good chance they'd see us as Jade's mistake, and hold that against us. I doubt we can do much wrong in this conversation that will make their current bias towards us any worse than it may already be. Mistakes of our own would have to be of a certain magnitude to contribute significantly to the tally.

I'll also note that most of those concerns seem kind of long term to me. Our relationship to the forces of heaven is a problem for the future- learning how to be what we are, and establishing a relationship with someone who can help us with that, is a problem for now. Secrecy seems an impediment.

At least some of the concerns you list can be addressed right now, though. We could ask about her use of the tongue of heaven, or what she sees her role as, or the temple's role as, now. Before making (or deciding to make) the reveal, or not, even. There's an advantage in trying to get her to see us as a person before we risk dehumanizing ourself by deifying ourself.

Lastly, it seems silly to me to hide this from someone in a position to be as useful as she can, unless we pin down a real risk in the reveal (like it would radically change her behavior or our relationship for the worse). Especially when so many others seem to know already.

>If Jade keeping Jasper a secret even from her peers (and her priestess?) is any indication[...]

There is still a sun even after Jade's death. There's no way that heaven missed that, the mortals all know. Right now they can't afford to be too harsh with us because the Imperator side of the Excrusian-Imperator conflict lost so badly that they can't afford to waste possible recruits/muscle. Even if whoever is higher in the hierarchy is wary or temperamental about dealing with us directly then talking to Eclipse should be fine, and is a good first step to making friends and allies affiliated with Heaven.
On the flip side to that, they also can't afford mavericks who screw up the team plan. If we're demonstrably bad at playing nice with the overall plans we would just be a problem to be marginalized instead of a prospect to be recruited and supported. Don't give up on getting in Heaven's good books just because we know mom was keeping us sheltered, we don't even know who she was hiding from what there aside from vague guesses that she was hiding evidence of her involvement with an Excrusian: If that was the case the cat's already out of the bag now so there's only prejudice to worry about. For all we know she may have been trying to protect them from Jasper, heir to one of the most threatening Excrusians.

But we should really work on specifics of what to talk about to see if we can satisfy both perspectives, or at least identify which set of goals is more important here and now: I was figuring on talking to Mother McCormick about grieving, and who mother was to her priests and believers. I was hoping that would be useful to talk about and wouldn't risk political problems. What were you hoping to discuss that does require us to declare our identity and status?

>can't miss, can't afford
Oh, I agree. They know there's a sun, and if creation needs one, they aren't in a position to do anything about us. That, and there are forces protecting this place, from them as much as anyone else.

Although that doesn't mean they have to like it.

>Don't give up on getting in Heaven's good books
Oh, I think that's definitely possible (although if our quest for justice means we have to work towards a full understanding of what happened, that likely means we'll have to get closer to our Excrusian side than they'd be happy with. We're likely going to be marginalized for a bit if we insist on pursuing that).

But at the same time, I don't feel a protocol error, or breaking an unknown code of conduct in one conversation is going to count much against us, either. It's a recoverable error, if in fact we make an error at all.

>What were you hoping to discuss that does require us to declare our identity and status?
We've had a lot of questions about, well, what it means to be a god, or the sun. Our very nature, our abilities, our capabilities. I don't expect Mother McCormick can answer all those directly, or even teach us all of that, but if she knows who we are and what we're trying to do, she might be able to help us. If we conceal who and what we are, we lose that. Basically, this temple has the potential to be our sun-school, if you will. We need to decide on what terms we're going to make that work.

I think the big question is how the person in front of us will react to being told, or not told, and how that influences how we interact with her, and how we can operate, here and now. That's the light I think we should be considering this in. It will likely be years before we interact directly with heaven, and we have plenty of time to establish a more favorable reputation (or earn their disgust) though our behavior. I feel like giving to much weight to what heaven might think ignores person for politics- and worse, politics we know next to nothing about.

(I apologize for the verboseness. I'm not trying to shout you down with a wall of words, but I can't seem to manage to express myself concisely).

>We've had a lot of questions about, well, what it means to be a god, or the sun. Our very nature, our abilities, our capabilities.

Ah, well, we're going at this from different ends then. I was assuming that she is not an Imperator and therefore wouldn't have a lot of directly useful advice at that level. I was also assuming that she knows, as a priestess, about comforting the grieving and what her believer-facing version of who mom was and what she did, and that we should limit ourselves to talking about those things until we have established a connection to Heaven and learned what their rulebook says.

That contains two assumptions of course, which I am not qualified to test.

Suggestion 2014/05/05(Mon)15:26 No. 573276 ID: 961d2e
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"So who. . Who was she to you? What did this place mean to her?" I ask, drying my eyes.
"That's a complicated question, she was many things to us. She made this place, as a haven. A place to hold onto the illumination of Heaven and the grace of Light.
"She gave us our rituals and our prayers. Told us to keep our lives holy and pure, and told us that our struggles mattered.
"And the echo of her voice still lays over the land, echoing our deeds."
"She changed Town and brought us here. Saying to the humans there that they should rule, but to be kind and careful in that rule.
"She brought this island to Town and asked my grandmother to listen to all who came, and my mother and then me continue that task.
"We saw her each day, an invulnerable shield against the nothingness. And when she fell we -knew- that our last day had dawned.
"And yet. . Maybe she was more. . Tricky then we knew. Because I am here talking to you, in the light of a new Sun, seeing her image glow with her love." Mother McCormick pauses here.
>

Okay, she knows. Well, she doesn't know, but she sure as hell suspects, and is waiting to see if we'll tell her.

...she was my mother.

What makes you say that?

>>573320
...huh. Not who I was expecting argument from.

Maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. I'm going to go bed, and take another look at this in the morning.

"I don't really have the vaguest idea what she was thinking or planning as far as that goes, and I probably need to find out. I was there when it happened but I barely have more than suspicions about all the immediate and deeper reasons why things happened that way.
"One thing I do know is that what you said earlier, (translate this part) 'Angels have peers/sisters but no masters/parents' surprises me. Are you an angel? If you aren't then knowing that might be dangerous, or perhaps I'm misinformed and it isn't. Either way, there's too much I don't know about that and all the rest of what... Jade was, and what she did."

>>573320
Okay, putting my thoughts in order: she knows there's a new sun, she describes it slash it's relation to Jade with in terms of love (which would suggest a familial bond), and she can see your resemblance.

Unless she's completely married to that gods not having children quotation, the idea should have at least occurred to her. At the very least, she recognizes your connection, and that you know something she does not.

Regardless of what she knows or suspects though, she's noticeably asking a question without asking (she's done that more than once, now). I suppose that's a skill you master in her role.

>What do/say
The matter of Jade's role does leave a possible natural segue to your own questions and uncertainty about your role / abilities. (...You don't exactly know who you're supposed to be, now, or how to be it). That's something this temple can likely help you explore, whether or not you reveal your identity.

>Angels have peers/sisters but no masters/parents
>Are you an angel
Well, if the quotation is meant to be taken literally, I would think not, as she admitted to having a mother and grandmother. That said, if you examine her worlds carefully, there's no exact grouping of herself with humanity. "The humans" not "we humans", and the we-s and us-es used are applied to the people of the temple.

It might be worth exploring what she meant by that. Aren't there all kinds of myths of their having children? Even the sun. You heard one about a pine needle just the other day.

>temple's grieving rituals
Didn't comment on this before since we got caught up arguing about other things, but not a bad idea.

(Any of these three could naturally lead to a place where it would be appropriate to reveal ourself, if we decide to do o, but I suppose I'll hold off on lobbying that till we've had our questions answered. Perhaps the subtlest and most understated reveal- if we engage in a ritual, and she asks who we're grieving for (I'm assuming who it's for influences the ritual), we simply say "a mother". It doesn't directly admit to anything, but it's an answer without answering for her question without asking).

>on the other stuff we arguing about
It almost sounds like this is something Jade set up by herself. In which case, there may not even be relevant celestial rules / protocol to worry about (that, or she already broke them, acting alone).

part 1 : Gold, Bronze, and marble. PowderedLight 2014/05/06(Tue)11:15 No. 573373 ID: 94d694
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> Unless she's completely married to that gods not having children quotation, the idea should have at least occurred to her. 
That's not quite what what the quotation is saying. It's saying Angels don't have parents. Otherwise I would be a counter example. Also there are lots of gods only a few of whom are Angels or even Imperators. Having a cult is dangerous because others can steal it and use it to twist or channel your power. Probobly that's why Mom's temple is here and not Earth or home. This place feels hidden away.
"I don't know what she was planning." Ibarely frowning, "I was there when it happened but I barely have more than suspicions about how and why. Angles aren't supposed to die. It's not possible except Da..Fa..his bow it's.. dangerous." I continue, "And they were talking, and she did something, and then he was angry, and I was falling." And I have to close my eyes and calm down. I can feel the mirror of Father's anger in my heart. It burns, colder then the dark.
Mother McCormick reaches out and I let her hug me until I can calm a little, until I can forget some of that anger.
I start again. "One thing I do know is that what you said earlier, (translate this part) 'Angels have peers/sisters but no masters/parents' surprises me. I've heard it before, but a human shouldn't be able to speak it. Knowing the True Tongue of Heaven is dangerous for humans. Are you an angel? If you aren't then knowing that might be dangerous, or perhaps I'm misinformed Either way, there's too much I don't know about that and all the rest of what... Jade was, and what she did."
Mother McCormick smiles sadly, "I'm human, but Town, even before little Island came to it, escaped the Curse of the Tower. Or so was explained to me. I must admit the idea of not understanding a language confuses me. I mean how can you think in a language you don't know." She pauses here thinking deeply. "Why don't I show you The One to Come, also called the Grey Lady, or the Practical Teacher."
[More coming, da..dum..da..dum]

PowderedLight 2014/05/07(Wed)20:57 No. 573568 ID: 961d2e
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Once inside the temple, she leads me to an archway flanked by two carved figures I recognize as the Ministers of Sunrise and Sunset. Between them is a fresco depicting a pair of doors opening into the lower level of Celestia.
Mother McCormick reaches behind the ear of the carving of the Minister of Sunrise. "Now.." She pauses, and then leans against the right half of the fresco. It clicks and then tilts inward revealing a short dark passage. she pulls Jasper with her into the darkness, and then they are in a grey room, lit only dimly. One wall is filled with a charcoal drawing: A woman, skin pale, in black clothing, and carrying an umbrella, a sad smile on her face, showing her pity for the world, but it is her eyes that most grab Jaspers vision, they are her father’s eyes, holes into a far and Sunless land.
They fill her vision, and her mind. She is at the edge of the universe, looking up to the stars that shone before the Tree, a wind blows out the flame that lights her self, and the stars fall, one by one until the light and the dark are one.
Tyger! Tyger! burning bright
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
In what distant deeps or skies
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
What the hand dare seize the fire?
And what shoulder, & what art.
What the hammer?
what the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp
(&) When the stars threw down their spears,
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb make thee?
Jasper finds herself standing outside the doorway, in the sun-drenched temple once more, crying. It takes her a while to realize she is being held by Mother McCormick. “She knew..Mother knew!” she sobs into the Priestess’s arms.
>

>“She knew..Mother knew!” she sobs into the Priestess’s arms
...well, that's one decision we won;t have to debate, then.

>what do
This is one time where you emotions and vulnerabilities are not something you need to lock up to protect yourself. You never had a chance to mourn, and this is as an appropriate place as you could ever find. Let your rain fall.

Continue and compose yourself when you're ready.

I'm not sure what you saw... did they make a Mimic out of your mother?

>>573597
If I'm reading this right... Senko's title is the one to come. Which would imply she wasn't before. I think Senko is Jade. Or... was Jade. That the Grey was born from the fire going out. (Possibly supported by one of the ambiguous lines in father's letter). Jasper is the sun's spark- a flame split off, now independent. Senko is the sun's ashes.

The fact that Jade knew raises all kinds of questions, though. Why didn't she do anything to prevent this? What was her real objective? Father, in his letter, tried to make it sound as if he had no choice, that she had some terrible plan to win the war that forced his hand. But that can't be the case if she saw this coming- if she truly sought to win above all else, she would not have accepted her destruction.

Unless her death is part of a longer plan that serves that victory- if she was her own sacrificial queen to reach a later mate.

Or was she motivated by something else? Did she chose the path where her daughter(s?) would survive? Did she allow everything to skirt so close to complete destruction in order to put an end to the conflict? (So her supposed plan to win at terrible cost was just a bluff to manipulate father?). Did she realize it was inevitable, and simply accept it and prepare what contingencies she could?

...this also makes the question of justice all the much harder. If she knew this would happen, if she allowed this to happen, does that make her responsible for the damage caused by her death? And more than that- to what extent does that mean He is still responsible for her death?

I spend a long while crying. Mother McCormick's robe-vest-thing is soaked with my tears, and smeared with snot. I'm crying but I'm also so angry.
How could She? How could She ever kiss him with Her death in his eyes? How could she make me if she knew she would leave me? How could she go through with whatever she did that set him off?
Didn't she care about me?
Or was I just a mistake, a .. a trial run. She told Mother McCormick about Ms. Senko, she put her picture in the holy of holies, but didn't tell her about me?
I hate them all. I want to tear down this whole darned temple! And ..
And I .. I
I still want to be a good girl. I hate her so much but I still want her to be proud.
"I'll eat all my metals, and play nice with nursy, and take my baths. . And.. And. .I just want to see her again."
I just keep crying for a long long time.
It's not until it's almost noon that I calm down a little.
Mother McCormick invites me to lunch, she has a simple meal, I only eat tiny bits while she explains where each part of the meal was grown.
It's nice to just let the words wash over me.

>

>anger, bargaining, blame
It's not wrong to feel that way.

>How could she make me if she knew she would leave me?
Nearly every parent expects to leave their child behind one day, unless the worst happens and their children die first. Creating life despite the certainty of death... that's a kind of hope, or faith. It's what keeps life going.

>How could She ever kiss him with Her death in his eyes?
That's... complicated, and hard to say. Did she fall in love before she knew what he would do, or after? When did she know? ...and even if we assume she didn't know to start, they were always enemies, generals on opposite sides of a nearly incomprehensible war. It was something powerful that overcame that.

Much of it depends on what she was really trying to do, and the answers to the questions I brought up before. Was she driven by love, and willing to accept what happiness she could have while she could, despite how things would end? Did she do it for her children, thinking it was worth it to bring you into the world? Was it for a duty; all a grand sacrificial play, allowing herself to be seduced and slain by the enemy for a later victory we as of yet do not understand? Was it for a peace- was her death, this renewal, a fundamental change in reality, the alternative to an endless war she saw for her family? Some combination of these, or factors we haven't considered?

It's entirely too complicated, and depends on information we do not have. Earlier, we considered that you would one day have to understand your father to understand what would be just. Apparently, you will need to understand your mother as well. I'm not sure what avenues will lead us there, but I suspect when you are grown, and we are involved in this investigation in earnest, that you will need to approach the celestial. Find those who knew her as we did not.

...I know one story, of a village where people knew their deaths. Their deaths were people- they grew with them, and spent their lives beside them. They didn't fear death, for their deaths were familiar, old friends. It's a strange idea, but there can be a comfort in that certainty, I suppose. If one accepts that, love in a similar circumstances doesn't feel so impossible.

Love isn't very reasonable, anyways. You feel how you feel, regardless of the sense of it.

>Didn't she care about me?
I think you know the answer to that, already. She didn't fake the love you saw, or felt.

>Or was I just a mistake, a .. a trial run.
I very much doubt that.

>She told Mother McCormick about Ms. Senko, she put her picture in the holy of holies, but didn't tell her about me?
My guess was she told her- that she left that image in that secret room- for you to find. If she knew what was to happen, she knew where you would end up. That there was a good chance you'd see this place out. It's a message- for you.

The real question is what it's meant to say. Obviously, for the moment, it's given us a good deal more questions than answers. But they are questions you would have never thought to ask, otherwise. I think it's meant to help you.

>what do
If you're up to it, and since the cat is out of the bag anyways, now might be the time to ask about how the temple deals with mourning or grief. Or to come back to the problem of yourself- and your uncertainty of your role- how to be what you are, or what you're supposed to be, now.

"'[...] when I come I will show you that hope is pointless, and dreams are worse than Lies.' I suppose she would consider herself a 'Grey Lady' or a 'Practical Teacher.' If you didn't know already I guess you've figured out my relation to mom now. What I'm wondering is what she told you about me before I got here, and what her plans for this part are."

Mother McCormick replies "Well.. It's hard to say. Mostly she gave us duties or tasks, and then, sometimes, later we would understand why. She told us that we would need to care for the people of this island, and to show visitors what was beautiful about this life. And that in the face of power and destruction that would serve us best.

"We were told to expect strange allies and foes. I think she was worried about you, but confidant in your power. She gave us instructions for dealing with the young Entropy, or at least so I thought at the time. Now. . Now I think some of it was about you.

"81 years ago she asked my mother to get sunspot records from the Observatory, and encouraged my aunt's interest in Midwifery. And then all the sunspot records mysteriously burned, and aunts books yellowed and cracked as if they had been left in the Sun for years.

"I think you and your sister show up in what one wears to a funeral" She leans forward and inspects the earring I picked up talking to the glass blower. "Yeah, it's exactly that earring. Though this temple isn't the right place for most of that ceremony. Little Island changes slowly. I am not sure how much of putting on a proper wake for your Mother we can do without telling people who you are. But my help is yours."

>

>stuff about entropy
Oh, interesting. I don't think it's time to pry about that right now, though.

>Sunspot records destroyed
>midwifery books borrowed
Huh. I wonder if that pertains to your own birth, or your siblings. (Jasper isn't 80, but time doesn't necessarily move at the same right for gods and mortals, or in different places).

>I think you and your sister show up in what one wears to a funeral
>with that earring
...I don't understand what's being said there. Is she saying she's seen that the two of you will attend her funeral, dressed as you are? Or that there's an image or depiction of it somewhere? Or is that just an odd way of saying you're dressed appropriately?

>proper wake, tell people who you are.
I'm not afraid of letting people know who I am, when I should. But... announcing it to the world doesn't seem right, either. I'm still figuring out who I am. I don't want to have to be something else to people, yet.

Maybe something... smaller?

>But my help is yours.
Thank you.

"It's worth wondering who doesn't know who I am. I'm not sure how I got to Fortitude after falling, and I got a letter from Entropy before I even knew what and where he was. The Kichi family in particular had been preparing for my arrival for years before I visited them for the first time I think. Anybody powerful or well-informed enough to know that keeping track of what seers say and do is a useful source of information would likely know from that, if nothing else.
"Can you think of any people I wouldn't want to know about my identity and location who don't already know at least as much as my attendance at a funeral would tell them? Dad knows, little sister Senko--Practical Teacher--knows, and I'm really not sure who there is left to keep it secret from."

>>573736
I can make educated guesses about some of these.

>(Jasper isn't 80, but time doesn't necessarily move at the same right for gods and mortals, or in different places).
Don't count on it. One of these days we're going to have to get her to look herself over in a mirror so that we know what we're dealing with better. Do keep in mind that most deities mature but never grow old except as a reflection of their self-image or if their power wanes and they are dying. Combine this notion with the fact that some human people look teenaged while in their thirties, or even older. Putting that together leads me to wonder if Jasper is actually a lot more than she thinks she is because being socially sheltered and overshadowed by her mother left her with an immature self-image.

>...I don't understand what's being said there. Is she saying she's seen that the two of you will attend her funeral, dressed as you are?
The light of the sun reveals, I suspect it was revealing in this case. You didn't think the Kichi were the only seers around, did you?

>[...] I'm still figuring out who I am. I don't want to have to be something else to people, yet.
We are Jasper Irinka the Sun reborn, daughter of Jade Irinka the former Sun, and one of the few forces powerful enough to kill the Sun. A seer spent most of her life preparing for us to stop by for a casual meet and greet introduction, sister Senko thinks us important enough to make plans of multiple years duration to influence us, and multiple diety-tier beings have invited us to be their pupil. We already are someone to a lot of people, they see our naked self in the sky every day and feel our warmth.

>deities age / self-image
>is Jasper sheltered / older than she thinks?
The question is kind of meaningless as you present it. If, as you assume, a god's age is defined by how they see themself, or their power or their experience, then Jasper is still a child. Since she clearly thinks like one, and is largely inexperienced with much of her full potential, and has much learning and growing to do.

You can't argue she'd be immature or behind either, since her level of maturity would be self defining and relative. It would be a completely internalized metric.

>You didn't think the Kichi were the only seers around, did you?
No, but we haven't had any prior information that indicated they did any of that here, and even if we accept the meaning as describing a vision, the wording is still odd. Which leaves me unsatisfied making that assumption.

>We are Jasper Irinka the Sun reborn [...]
...that's kind of literal response that doesn't really address what I'm trying to discuss here.

Jasper has a problem of identity. Yes, she has a lot of heritage, and many roles, and titles. Things outside her that define who she is. But within that general mold, there are still a lot of ways she can chose to grow, or define herself (what kind of god are we, how we fulfill our role, even what we decide our role or responsibilities may be, how we use our power, how our power and abilities and domain develop... etc etc).

We have some long term goals (mostly understanding and justice) but there's still a lot of room for interpretation and different ways to try and get there.

tl;dr- One of the things our mother's temple should be able to help us with is learning how to be what we are (and decide what that means). Addressing out own uncertainty is something that feels appropriate to me.

>loads of people know who we are, already.
>is there any advantage to keeping quiet?
There's a big difference to who and what we are being know to other power players, and to everyone. We can't avoid that fact that some people know, and that they have agendas, and we will have to deal with that.

But there are a lot of potential complications that could arise from elevating our status from an open secret to common knowledge.

More than that, though, I think there's a fundamental advantage to having some kind of normality in her life. Regular people she can interact with who don't regard her as a god to be feared, worshiped, exploited, asked favor of, etc. It could provide a grounding her growing up might otherwise lack, and a relief valve where she can be Jasper without having to bear the burden of being anything / anyone else.

>>573793
Sorry for being indirect, but I was suggesting that Jasper use a moment, and take a discrete, sizable step towards growing up here. A normal part of growing up for socialized, intelligent beings is self-assertion. Accordingly, hanging in the sky everywhere, every day, is a pretty huge assertion on its own which we should really rationalize within our self-perception and risk-assessment better. Compared to that I'm not even sure what additional risks there are for her to attend her mother's funeral. I'm unconvinced that it's an overtly political statement since it's her mother's funeral. Is that really comparable to showing up at an embassy function, or making a grand entrance into a contested territory? I'm not sure, so therefore I propose we ask someone that *might* know about some of these risks, if they exist.

If it does turn out there are tangible risks besides having to possibly face little sister while she has not yet fully manifested that's a discussion to have on the basis of weighing the nature, probability and severity of those risks. Before we get there we also should also pass through one question whose answer should be obvious: Are we going to let anyone take your mother's funeral away from you, Jasper?

>>573807
Huh. We're talking at cross purposes, again. I'm thinking about setting up the conditions where she can grow up, you're worrying about stepping up now.

But if we're being direct, I'll put my concerns self-assertion as simply as we can:
* I think Jasper needs to learn a lot more about what it means to be the sun, and how to be a god, before she takes the step of walking around openly as both. (Ie, we're not prepared).
* I think it's an advantage for her to have the chance to grow up in an enviroment where everyone doesn't know. (It's healthy to have a somewhat 'normal' enviroment, and a good perspective for being of her power. Humility / grounding / understanding, etc).

>political risks
Not really what I was concerned about (or even think really might be a problem).

>Are we going to let anyone take your mother's funeral away from you, Jasper?
Not what I was arguing for, either. It'll happen, it's just a matter of when and how.

>[...] I think it's an advantage for her to have the chance to grow up in an environment where everyone doesn't know. [...]

I guess I'm questioning the assumptions behind this:
-Is living like a human desirable training for being an imperator?
-Is trying to pretend to be humbly near-human even effectively possible?

It occurs to me that these are untested assumptions. I further assert that they seem awfully shaky when you realize that everybody already knows Jasper to some degree. We are an important part of the life of most, if not all, people. What's left to hide from whom besides the fact that we really need to get better at acting incognito?
If nothing else we need to show up at the funeral openly in case there's any question of the disposition of mother's remains: I'm pretty sure we don't want a mimic made out of her. I think this, by itself, may set our course here.

>Is living like a human desirable training for being an imperator?
Unknowable, or at least unknown. We have no way of knowing what's good for imperators in particular, or not (although future conversations with Entropy jr may be helpful, if we can separate out what information is skewed by his own perspective or agenda, or his father's).

I think it's much more useful to think in terms of what would be desirable for her as a person. Raising your princess well when she's been put in an ivory tower is considerably harder.

>Is trying to pretend to be humbly near-human even effectively possible?
To an extent, yes. Jasper's had reasonably normal interactionss of one kind or another with many people.

>I am not sure how much of putting on a proper wake for your Mother we can do without telling people who you are. But my help is yours.
I also think we may have missed a point she made, here. She never said we could not do something without telling people who we are. Just that it changes what we can do.

Also, it occurs to me that a full service may not be happening soon, if we're not supposed to meet Senko till we go to school in a few years, but we're both supposed to be there, at the funeral. (Unless we break one or more vision?).

>>573854
>Also, it occurs to me that a full service may not be happening soon, if we're not supposed to meet Senko till we go to school in a few years, but we're both supposed to be there, at the funeral.[...]

That's easy, Senko apparently doesn't really exist or isn't manifest yet, so she only conditionally/partially shows up. Specific possibilities for this include being a projection, an apparition, and using some kind of an avatar. So therefore both can be true without this funeral being years in the future. This was a significant part of my perspective for recommending that we do attend mom's funeral openly (and soon).

You guys are being a little confusing..but I think you maybe want me to ask about the Funeral thing?
Anything else I should before going home..to Ashley's I mean.

>

>>574055
Sorry, kind of lost track of the moment there, for our own thing.

You could respond to her comment on the funeral that while you aren't sure you want everyone to know who who you, you aren't afraid to let people know when you should. And wouldn't the types of people who would show up to that kind of event mostly be people who already know, or in a position to know?

You could bring up the uncertainty of your own role, or you could leave that for another day. (We're kind of loaded down with heavy issues, piling on existential ones may not be best).

And a thank you of one kind or another would be appropriate. And if there's time enough before you leave, you could do some of the simple helping around the temple stuff like you did last time. You might find it calming or helpful after all the emotional stuff (and/or it might provide you time to think).

Sorry, we were spilling out into the probability space of what can happen depending on different possibilities for when, where, and how your mom's funeral proceeds and what your involvement--open or otherwise--in it is. We really do need more information on what she was even talking about though.

PowderedLight 2014/05/13(Tue)08:43 No. 574232 ID: b43a87
File 139999578715.jpg - (9.11KB , 240x240 , gI_0_bookcover.jpg )

"So uh, what do you mean when you say my sister and I show up? Like you had a vision or something?" Jasper asks, tasting a bit of cheese.

"Oh, no. Back when this temple was founded, generations ago, Our Lady gave us our rituals, to mark the seasons of our crops and our lives: to welcome newborns, to remember sins, to bind families, to thank the rain and the Sun, to bless new buildings, to punish transgressions, to mark sorrows. And each of those have their proper dress, and you are wearing one of the options for those close to the deceased at a funeral.

[Strike] I don't actually remember the differences among a funeral a wake etc, so am using them interchangeably. [/strike]

"Off white, with one earring of colors, long dress or pants, no gloves, lotus petals but no full blossoms or bulbs. Or off black, full gloves, geometric straight lines, hat or scarf, something on the face in silver or red, in a star or falling star motif.

"It's clear now, they represent you and your sister. She knew we could draw strength from each other's strength. You helping us, we helping you" she smiles slightly, almost but not teasing, instead it seems to say "I will help."

Huh. So you instinctively took on a dress of mourning, or she defined them so they would suit you. (Foreknowledge gets kind of funny).

Still, it feels kind of right that you took a step towards acknowledging or dealing with your grief, even if you did so unintentionally.

>I don't actually remember the differences among a funeral a wake etc
A funeral is a formal ceremony, usually with someone officiating, individuals speaking in turn to an audience, that kind of thing. The wake is usually... less formal. More of a gathering than a presentation. Food, people talking together, remembering. Of course there are different practices in different cultures and faiths, and I have no idea how precisely either ceremony would be handled in Jade Irinka's sun-temple religion, much less how a ceremony for a god (their god) would differ. (Although part of me thinks it would be appropriate not to treat her death as any different from that of any other mother).

>I will help
Thank you.

I don't really have any more questions that feel right for you to ask, in the moment. As for what we do before heading back to Ashley's, I think the last paragraph of this >>574059 still holds (unless Mother McCormick brings up anything else).

"That's interesting and helpful, thank you. I'm still not entirely sure how to handle a service for mother though, or where her remains currently are. It's probably something I should talk to heaven about, but if you've got more advice I could use it."

And yes, just hanging out in mom's temple and being busy should be good for helping to settle your raw emotions and for connecting with your mother's past.

PowderedLight 2014/05/15(Thu)08:57 No. 574539 ID: b43a87
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She nods and accepts my thanks with a " It's why I'm here."

It doesn't take long for Mother McCormick to finish her lunch, and start continuing her daily maintenance of the temple. It's a lot of work for one person, and it feels like we are only three quarters done when she notes that I better get
going if I want to catch the ferry.

It feels good to help out at the temple. Like Mom approves. Even though my arms hurt and I didn't do everything right. (I kind of lit the paint thinner on fire because I wanted to see what it tasted like. I should really stop doing that.)

I could have spent the ferry ride thinking about things, but I didn't. Instead I just kind of soaked in the smells and sights, listening to the gulls.

The sun slowly sets over the horizon, and Jasper's eyes set with it, the gentle rocking of the boat carrying her to sleep.

>could have spent the time thinking, but I didn't
It's alright, there's no need to figure all of everything out in one go.

Goodnight, Jasper.

Hold up, we've gotta get home, and then we might be getting a visit from our most devoted follower when we get there.

>>574626
We'll get home. And I'm pretty sure our seer won't show up on a night when we're already worn out and asleep. An advantage or seer-ing.

PowderedLight 2014/05/16(Fri)15:11 No. 574732 ID: 00b2db
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Saturday I sleep in a bit, and hang out around the house at Ashley's, cleaning and helping out with laundry and cutting up fish.

Not much really happened, though I did practice my Meditation a bit.

At least not much happened during the day.

The night was another story.

>

Saturday? Ah, tonight's the night you were going to go to the Kichi for dinner.

Correct attitude to bring, I think, is polite respect and earnest honesty. Even in the face of possible anger or hostility. They're her family, and it's only natural they be upset about the risk you pose to her, and what you're taking from them, even unintentionally. All we can give in return is our understanding, and our best to improve the situation.

I expect an awful lot of fear actually, the gods aren't supposed to come to supper and take their daughter away. If that's the case I'd normally expect the best course is trying to be disarmingly charming, earnest, and to make some non-threatening jokes if you can.