If we can use a telescope to see other castles, we can probably set up some kind of simple signalling system--like signal flags or light signals. Blue flag for "being attacked" Red flag for "attacking" yellow flag for "Please send reinforcements"...that sort of thing. If we can currently travel between castles we should be able to set up such a system, right?

>>475306
Alright, since everyone can perform every role, let's have everyone making traps everywhere.

Also, what advantage is there to guarding a light trail instead of guarding a castle behind its traps? What advantage is there to holding onto castles, anyway? It's not like we're generating additional troops or resources by holding onto them... unless there is some sort of respawn mechanic in play for this fight?

Let's use the telescopes to look at our enemy's movements! Sevener is going to be in there somewhere, and she knows the rules, so she should know how to play this game far better than us. Knowing how she is placing her troops should give us clues as to the nature of this game.

1/2 Alison 2012/11/28(Wed)19:44 No. 475330 ID: c4e5c2
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>If you can see people, they can communicate with you! I mean, we already developed a non-verbal communication system, didn't we?
This is true, although it may require some modification, as it was intended for standard platform stages and was never anything like a true sign language. Nonetheless, it won't be hard to set up simple commands and have people posted at telescopes. Alison has Arbiter go make rounds to set that up. From what she can gather, everyone is making traps as best as they can.

>That's a strangely regular troop distribution for what you'd expect to be a semi-random distribution.
Alison gets the impression that it doesn't take that long to move from one location to another, so within a few turns, it's possible to even things out.

For now, Alison asks engineer about looking at enemy troops, as she can't seem to see that far. He says she might be able to see it if she moves to the far end castle, as a telescope should've arrived there only a few turns ago.

So Alison takes 2 turns to head to castle A, where she finds Guardsman. He asks where scanner is, but Alison doesn't know.

2/2 Alison 2012/11/28(Wed)19:44 No. 475331 ID: c4e5c2
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Alison takes a look through the telescope. There are a few stragglers of negligible numbers on the light trails, but ultimately all of the enemy forces are in more specific castles.

Sevener knows more than we do about CAI fights and has probably told her forces to consolidate in the castles. There is likely a reason for this, we should do the same.

>>475331
This highly suggests that they plan to stage a large offense in the center tile. Hey, here's an important question. Is it possible to skirt around a castle to get to other light trials, or do you have to go past traps and such? Can we just avoid taking over castles and zoom straight to the rear? In THAT case the only castle that counts is your final one, and guarding light trails has some merit. Also, I'm not sure if there's any point to taking over castles. What do we get from it? If it just lets us fortify and block enemy movement, then in theory we could just make one or two castles super-fortified, and have just skeleton crews holding onto the other castles to repair traps after they're all set up. We want to avoid army-on-army battles as much as possible to make our traps do most of the work. ...it kindof looks like that's what Sevener is doing. Perhaps she plans to field a force of about 3000, right in that middle square?

I think for now we should have Guardsman go tell our troops to get off the light trails, and have 800 in each of our front four castles. Let's try mimicking our opponent until we find out more about the strategical value of castles.

This game would be most interesting if holding onto castles allowed dead troops to respawn as ghosts. There even seems like a mechanic in place for that- ghosts are weak and can't build traps. An alternative is that our troops have their power bolstered by the number of occupied castles... We could try completely evacuating a castle to see what happens.

Likely, your strength is in traps and constructions while Sevener's is in direct combat. Since castles seem to offer no indirect benefits, you should view them as expendable sources of traps; meaning you capture weak castles, quickly lay traps, hold a siege for a a short while, then abandon it when the traps are spent, and move to another territory. All you have to be careful about is not getting pinned between a strong army and a strong garrison.

This strategy in mind, I suggest pooling all but a skeleton-crew per castle together on one of the two front-most castles inorder to get Sevener into chasing a single target over your already well prepared territories.

If Sevener chooses to chase with one large massed force, you can easily lead it on a chase through your territory to soften it up. If instead the force is split into multiple forces inorder to surround you, you can attack the farthest and weakest army to break through their nets.

>>475390
This sounds good. We can fortify our inner three castles the most with all the architects once the battle starts, while our fighters and support types lead the rest on a merry chase \ take advantage of any weaknesses they have. If they do head inward immediately though we will have to go for a direct confrontation.

.... in fact it might be wise to have half our ghost troops stay with the architects in case we get out maneuvered while the other half starts to assual their castles.

>>475339
>Perhaps she plans to field a force of about 3000, right in that middle square?

There's a fourth red light-trail going to that middle tile. I'd plan around her having another 1000 castle there.

>>475448
Yeah but it'd be foolish to leave castles completely undefended. That's just asking to have a force sneak behind and zoom into your last castle.

I'd warn that using a fighting retreat through our territory- sacrificing castles for tactical benefit- is effectively making assumptions about the win conditions of this stage!

If the win condition is "take the rearmost castle", "capture all territory" or "kill em all", a fighting retreat could work. If the win condition is "whoever has the most territory after a set number of turns" it's not such a good idea. Or if there is no win condition, and the goal is just to preserve as many people as you can for the next stage, while killing off as many of the enemy as possible.

Oh! If Engineer was able to make telescopes, then that means we have item creation abilities here, right?

Make ladders, poles, pickaxes, and other anti-trap gear. Heck, we might even be able to make barricades in the castles. What sort of traps can be made? Pressure plates and trap doors, I assume, but what about tripwires and motion/light sensors? I am wondering if we can exploit the limitations of the traps to bypass them in enemy castles. Like, for instance, bringing a bunch of ladders and just setting them on the ground to avoid both trap doors and pressure plates. Or we could even make several items that attach together to make a ladder big enough to reach the ramparts.

What's the layout of the castle interiors anyway?

Alison 2012/12/07(Fri)00:26 No. 476937 ID: c4e5c2
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>Make ladders, poles, pickaxes, and other anti-trap gear.
Alison sees if this is possible, and it does appear to be. Although doing so does cost time spent making defensive traps, orders are made to make sure that people are well equipped with basic, mundane items.

>Can we just avoid taking over castles and zoom straight to the rear?
This isn't something Alison can find out without directly testing it.

>What's the layout of the castle interiors anyway?
Although they appear to be basic, the non-capital castles appear to have 3 major floors, each one with one enormous door leading to the next. The capital castle appears to have 5.

Furthermore, Alison did not notice before, but not everyone in the castle are her contestant allies. Some appear to be linked to the castle itself, telling her that they are guardians for whoever owns the castle. There are about 20 per castle, and will not leave their assigned castle.

Alison is considering getting most people to fortify castles C, D and E, some on the capital, a smaller fraction on the front two least critical castles, and only leave the light trails the fortifications that are already in place. She'll also tell everyone to perform a fighting retreat until further notice if it comes to it. She can't be sure it's a good idea depending on the win conditions, but she has no idea what the win conditions are, so she can't think of a much better idea. From the sounds of it, the passage to the orange territory will be unlocked at turn 50, although she will be able to rearrange her forces just prior to turn 50 to even out her forces if need be. Duelist does expect Sevener to launch an all in offensive, but can't be sure. He asks if the projected setup is alright until turn 50.

Until turn 50 I'd have most of the units in the capital somewhere else building traps. If people feel the need to have more units in the capital in case something unexpected happens call them back right before turn 50.

Alison 2012/12/07(Fri)08:44 No. 476963 ID: c4e5c2
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Alison makes a minor adjustment by spreading out much of the capital's population to other capitals. With that, she and everyone begins setting up traps down bottlenecks and side rooms.

It appears that most people will successfully be equipped with mundane objects, and at the suggestion of Atlas, some grappling hooks may help in avoiding the first floor of traps in taking over castles.

On around turn 34, while Alison is making a false floor spike trap, she receives a Summon Ghost request for the corruptor.

...that still works? I thought that only worked last time because we were in the dreamland! (aka ghost talk is really people-you've-absorbed-and-are-in-dreamland talk, and in normal play, all those people would be ghosts). Maybe he's cheating somehow? Or it still works because this CAI battlespace is similarly outside of normal play the way the dreamland is?

There's a small chance we might not get back in if we go to him now. But... I think it's worth the risk. Accept the call.

Eh... although we did tell shopkeep we wouldn't do that anymore? Although I'm not sure if that just applies to stages. I'm not sure if the system can detect that though, although wherever Glitcher sent Corruption should be safe from system intrusion.

>some grappling hooks may help in avoiding the first floor of traps
They may have thought of that too. We need counter grappling hook measures- false holds outside the castle that crumble a minute or so after putting weight on them, and people who can cut ropes.

I guess we can patch him through? What could he possible want.

Alison 2012/12/07(Fri)09:44 No. 476976 ID: c4e5c2
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>We need counter grappling hook measures
Alison gives one last order to do this on poorly defended castles, as the grappling hooks likely will be most effective on castles that have too few inhabitants to cut ropes and chop ladders. She isn't sure, as she has not exactly had experience in medieval siege warfare.

Alison answers the call, to find that the corruptor looks as uneasy and awkward about seeing Alison again. She gives him a moment.

>"Hello, again, thank you for coming. How long have you been where you are?
"Hello Corruptor. I've been in a fight for 34 turns, or about 14 turns in my specific location. Perhaps around an hour in real time, but it's always impossible to tell. How did you summon me? I'm not in a position I thought I had to be in."
>"Yes, and my body size is invalid. As the stages go on, what rules I can't break seem to get weaker. I've felt strange for the last hour or so, actually, and for some reason I felt like you were at the location that I am supposed to be at. It sounds cryptic, I know, but that is not intentional. I've been trying to figure out what the glitcher has learned lately so I can better understand our position. I think I have missing logs, you see, as swordsbane's logs seem to refer to logs of mine that do not appear to exist. I think they are directly related to usurping the CAI. Yet even so, I seem to have resurfacing memories the more logs I find. And you're in what is supposed to be a CAI simulation, right?"
"Right."
>"Please describe it."
Alison goes ahead and describes, in some detail, what she knows about the first two areas.
>"That isn't right. That first one just sounds like a standard stage obstacle. The second one has happened in stages before when there are effectively only two or three sides entering one of the final stages, and there are virtually no independant contestants. How did you even enter this supposed CAI fight?"

>this isn't right
Maybe not, but we have evidence it's happened before! This isn't the first loop where I've fought administration this way, and Sevener has logs of the rules. She knew the rules in the first stage.

>how did this happen
Glitcher recovered, somewhat. Apparently, in most loops, he never gives anyone his ghost, so he doesn't stick around after scanning a note, regaining his memories and committing suicide. But this time, he had a chance to calm down, and we got through to him. He can still do his thing even as a ghost- and he made us a button to change stage types.

So we went to a system zone, to try and get access to Arbiter's and hopefully your logs. When we got there, we used the button to change the stage type. Although not before a bunch of system reinforcements showed up.

Although, the administration apparently had switches waiting for us that would do the same thing.

Also, if it helps: we're in the system bracket <I forget the number> and facing reinforcements from brackets 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18. We don't know if that includes all their forces, but we know it includes at least some of the admins. That means Corruptor's, the Council's, Obliterators, Swordane's and Alison / Bone's system brackets are either empty or with weakened defenses if you want to take action against them. Theoretically, even we lose this fight, you could prevent some of the admins from getting back to their rooms.

>feeling strange
We should tell him we figured out his Corrupted all become one person- they're a collective, like the shopkeep. We only got one ghost from the two we killed, and he has the memories of both.

(We're not judging or condemning this, we're just trying to help him understand himself, because hopefully that helps!)

Our Admin, Sevener has been using us to test CAI fights for the last several hundred loops. We're not sure how.

Answering the question without truly telling the truth is fun!

Don't forget to mention the fact that we chose the mode out of 3 possible:

Basic
Advanced
Sudden Death

There's a chance that the real CAI fight would use "Sudden Death".

Should we warn him about Savior, while we're here? We don't really understand what the root of the quarrel is, but I still think our best way out of this might be if we can find a way to get all three of the special contestants cooperating. That means either getting Savior to not attack Corruptor, or convincing Corruptor not to destroy him when he does (spare, capture, or absorb, I guess).

Honestly, we picked up a lot of info from Glitcher, and it might be faster if he's willing to talk to Corruptor himself.

...wait, did Glitcher ask that we not tell Corruptor about him? I can't remember? If not, I think honesty is the best plan. If he did ask, we use evasive honesty. Be as honest as we can without revealing that Glitcher is still actively aiding us (ie, we used a button, but don't say when we got it- let him assume we took it from Glitcher's workshop).

I think Glitcher asked to remain hidden for now.

Alison 2012/12/07(Fri)11:41 No. 476998 ID: c4e5c2
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Alison did remember to explain the difficulty level option, but corruptor did not appear to find that out of the ordinary. She will be safe and attempt to hide glitcher still.

"Seven has been testing CAI fights on us. Oh! And more than half of the remaining brackets are practically emptied, if you want to invade some. I also think that your devoted corruptees are a collective like the shopkeep."
>"That isn't too surprising, I began to suspect as much... and yes, I do want to invade! Or rather, I am sure that if I pass this on to my houses, then they would like to. Things aren't much better with them, but I will spare you the details unless you want to know. I would invite you back, but the other houses speak badly of you, for all the wrong reasons, and you may be better off where you are now than in my unwelcoming sanctuary. But Sevener brought you to a CAI fight? Nevermind how, she must have done it incorrectly. I am certain that these are just random stage obstacles, not a CAI fight! This is not what CAIs do."
"How do CAI's fight, then?"
>"According to a book I found recently, they are given specific scenarios, often a point in real world history. It's survival of the better CAI group. The CAI's are injected into certain scenarios, often real world points in history, and are given similar objectives. The one who does better wins. It could be as simple as two thieves trying to steal more loot than the other, or it could be more nebulous objectives such as negotiating political deals. In effect, it's an isolated, built in environment for CAIs to do their real world job, and the one that shows themselves to be superior is the victor."

Oh thats rich. No wonder Sevener has never won against the CAI. She's been practicing the wrong thing! My guess is the CAI ruleset we're using isn't so much for the CAI fight but for the CAI to practice our type of fight since they've forgotten their own battle-royale. That or these are the elimination rounds to thin us down to something that a CAI fight can manage.

>and yes, I do want to invade!
Just be careful, and don't go overboard. We need at least one of them alive- we discovered that if we actually manage to kill off the entire system, the next stage will dump everyone into one big bloodbath of a freeroam and get everyone killed. And judging from my logs, it didn't help the time you tried that.

>Not a real CAI battle
Well, that explains why Sevener hasn't been able to use the data she's collected the last 300 loops or so to overcome the CAI. It's not applicable!

>real CAI battle conditions
Oh gods, the whole friggen asteroid quest is actually a CAI battle! Nothing's real! It's Chee quest all over again...
...you know, by that definition, couldn't this all be a CAI battle of some kind?

>Also
...still thinking we should warn him that Savior is planning to come after him. Getting either of them killed off isn't ideal- understanding the special characters (or getting them cooperating) seems like it might be a big part of figuring everything out, or breaking the cycle.

>Glitcher and Sevener have been doing it wrong
Crap. In that case, I think the most important thing right now is that Corrupter knows the ruleset for our current stage! We can talk to him about other things later.

>Corrupter knows the ruleset for our current stage!
Oh wait, that's a good point. If he remembers the castles battle being used in a previous loop, and if he remembers the rules and win condition, that would be a big help!

Can we trust that that would be the exact scenario? The situation we're all in is supposedly the first and only attempt. That's describing the situation for normal CAI creation, correct? Like the three survivors (and their absorbed teams I hypothesize, ghosts can fight and stuff in this whole fight we're so anyone dead or absorbed probably contributes in other fight types just as much or more) would fight each other in the objective match? Or does that fight your describing result in three survivors? Or is it the three survivors vs. the CAI?

I mean, this is the first time a CAI merge has been attempted, unless that book was written within the entire scenario and kept through all the reboots, we shouldn't even HAVE that information or that book was written by the scientists who designed this merger experiment and implanted it inside. Not only that, but sometimes we're given information we cannot trust or made completely irrelevant, like with the cards and logs our pasts selves made. Mafia Alison betraying Hugruptor set up this how permanent betrayal thing in all the reboots by sending messages forward, and Sociopath Corruptor's actions at the end of the game makes Glitcher kill himself in all cycles. Trusting these messages and logs and even our old memories have always led to destruction. What makes the books different or any less dangerous?
Corruptor, just a message, whatever you end remembering, especially if you make it to the end, remember that it's fruitless. The memories that probably make you kill everybody at the end are not relevant at all, you can make the choice to follow your programmed instincts or not. Please, if you ever get a chance to send a message back, warn yourself about that. Warn yourself about trusting your instincts and memories.

Alison 2012/12/07(Fri)13:03 No. 477020 ID: c4e5c2
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"Couldn't this whole thing be one big CAI battle then?"
>".... it sure would be a broken one. I suppose it's still broken, no matter what.
"Also, the savior, I believe he is going to come after you. I hope you won't have to kill him, he might be necessary for... some reason?"
>"I'll keep it in mind and see how he goes about attacking me if he does."
"Also, you remember the castle as being something that has happened before? Do you remember the rules?"
>"... some, yes! I'll share what I know to help you here, and it'll help in the extremely unlikely chance it comes up later as well. But has the glitcher spoken to you?"
"Why would he?"
>"I don't know, but knowing you, I wouldn't imagine you wouldn't have at least tried to absorb him. You didn't say if you did or not when you told me about the events leading up to his death. I want to speak with him. Things haven't felt right without him, you or Arbiter. I messed up badly this cycle, and it's shaken my confidence."
"I think this cycle, when we figure out how, you should send a log about trusting your instincts and memories. These books don't sound like they belong, and sometimes we're given information that is either untrustworthy or irrelevant. I don't even know if we can trust our own memories."
>"That is true, I should take this with a grain of salt, but with that said, I'd like to see if I can get in contact with glitcher. If it's at all possible! Maybe I can direct his manipulation to get a proper cai emulation going so that we can break the cycle this time with the best of chances. So if it's at all possible, please direct him to me, or me to him, since I'm certain if it is remotely possible, it would be through you."

...You know, Glitcher never actually said we had to keep him a secret from everyone. Specifically, he said:
>He'll help as he can, but it would be best if the system and savior still thinks of him as dead.
So it should be alright to tell the Corruptor that we did absorb Glitcher, and that he's recovered from his suicidalness. The time he killed himself was actually the second time we absorbed him, in fact! Does the Corruptor really need to know that to try to summon him with ghost talk, though?

...man, we're skirting really close to having to outright lie to Snakey, here. I feel really bad about it too, because he appears pretty earnest.

>get in contact with Glitcher
...I'll do what I can. If there's a way I can get him to contact you, I will. (That's as honest as we can be. It implies that we can without coming out and saying it. Long term though, I like this plan. Getting the specials cooperating is a powerful option).

I really think we should give the warning about not killing off the whole system, though. That leads to bad things.

>I messed up badly this cycle
I don't know how much of what happened was your fault, or anyone's, really. Circumstances, and even people, are a little different in every loop, and it's hard to say what causes what. Don't dwell on what mistakes we might have made in the past- focus on the future. We will find a way to fix all of this.

>>477025
If that's true, Corruptor has already figured out we probably adsorbed Glitcher. So he already doesn't think of him as dead, and in fact, is actively seeking him out. Horse is out of the barn. (It's just hard to check exactly what he told us regarding him and Corruptor, given the walls of text he threw at us. :V)

Corruptor should be able to attempt to ghost talk Glitcher, actually, via recursion (Corruptor has Arbiter's ghost, who has Alison's, who has Glitcher's). And he might as well try it, before the system takes away ghost talk like Shopkeep was threatening. Only problem is if Glitcher doesn't want to see him, for reasons.

We gave the Corrupter an invitation to our house in the past, didn't we? That offer's still open. I wonder if we can sleep in this faux CAI fight zone?

Alison 2012/12/07(Fri)15:58 No. 477062 ID: c4e5c2
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"You have my ghost, so if I had the glitcher's, couldn't you have talked to him?"
>"Yes, but only if he wanted to, and if you were good with him, then you could convince him to... well, I'm obviously desperate here. I'll try again on my own."
Alison can't remember the glitcher saying that revealing him to the corruptor would be bad, and it was likely up to Alison's discretion. And right now, she thinks that those 2 could stand to be reunited.
"I think he has recovered from his suicidalness. He was absorbed, yes, but he might be sensitive. Oh, and don't kill the whole system! If that happens, then we all just get dumped in a nasty freeroam section. And you know, that invitation to come to my house still stands."
>"Oh, yes... I think I'll take that invitation, Snake Queen! I'm glad to hear about the glitcher. I'll share the rules I know without wasting more time."
"Thank you. And I'm certain we all mess up a cycle badly now and then, me included. With everyone's help, though, I will find a way out of these cycles."
>"I hope so. But are you still willing to fight sevener like that, since it isn't what you thought it was? If glitcher and I work together, we might find a way to pull you and your team alone out and cheat the whole fight."

Wiki updated: http://tgchan.org/wiki/Unnatural_Selection_Stats#Castle_Rounds[/spoiler]

>>477020
Ask him exactly how he messed up this cycle. From what we've gathered from the paper notes and system logs, doesn't he almost always try to kill us because of his paper note? If he's just regretting that, he shouldn't. It's just a lingering trap set by a cycle that had an Alison and Corruptor that couldn't work together due to the ever-varying personalities over the cycles. I'm sure we can work things out this time. We have to, if we're going to save everyone.

Ask which book exactly told him about the way CAI Fights work. The way he described it does actually sound like a more believable test than this series of games we're playing. It's possible that Sevener and Glitcher were both misled as to what a CAI Fight actually is- I mean, maybe this little sequence of games is a decoy for contestants or system members trying to practice, made to APPEAR to be a CAI Fight routine when it actually isn't. That along with Corruptor's deleted logs leads me to the conclusion that the CAI is directly interfering with the simulation to make it harder for the players to prepare for beating it. A method of self-preservation that goes counter to its original purpose! The CAI has essentially gone rogue.

Tell him that we heard he creates Devotees almost unconsciously and if it's possible for him to figure out how to stop his own abilities from activating- practice his control- it would go a long way to making us feel more comfortable about his Corruption-themed stuff. Also I can't help but wonder if that feeling that he's supposed to be where we are is part of his original purpose? We don't even know what he was put in the simulation to do, so we don't know if he should follow his original purpose or defy it.

(it's worth noting that we were told Corruptor and Glitcher working together is a bad thing. However, we were told that by Savior, iirc, who isn't exactly an impartial source)

Finally, I can't help but want to ask Corruptor if he knows why Alison winds up being in the middle of all this. Is there anything special about her, or is it just a case of her having the capability and opportunity? A case of the right person in the right place?

So we're going to trust the Corruptor then? Cool. I think we're better off trying to mend bridges and reform any darkness in him than trying to hold him at arm's length or fearing he's been up to something. Poor Snake-dude is just tragically alone and misunderstood!

>it's worth noting that we were told by Savior that Corruptor and Glitcher working together is a bad thing
Actually, not bad, per se. He said that
>The two of them together are extremely dangerous
Dangerous for whom, and in what way, is the significant factor.

>Glitcher
Yeah, sorry for being evasive with my answers. I wasn't sure he was ready.

>cheating
Well, the problem with just running, and leaving things as they are, is that the administration openly declared war on us. Sevener wanted us to attack, and was prepared for that. If things stay as they are, we escaped the trap, but we're at a disadvantage overall. We also miss a chance at more logs.

Winning if possible, drastically reduces the threat the system presents, gets us logs access again, and rezes our dead. Odds of actually winning are low, though.

Running might also deprive the others of their chance to attack the system brackets while they're weak!

Best option is if we can pull our people out, but leave Sevener's side trapped in a battle they can't complete. :V

...best plan I think is to get Corruptor and Glitcher talking, and working on the problem, see what are options are. If it works, and what would happen if we pull out. In the meantime, we continue with the castle battle, at least buying time for Corruption to attack the system. Best case we win, worst case, we ask to be pulled out.

Because everything I was going to say has already been said, I'm just going to inject the most important thing of all.

Initiate Ghost-Hug Procedures.

>>477067
Hells yes. Ghost-snake on sad-snake hugs are mandatory.

I think we should drop out. Sevener probably already built a large number of golems and siege canons by having people combine their bonuses while they don't cost any minerals, which puts us at a severe disadvantage.

>>477062
According to the information he just gave us about the castle stage, there's another event after it, because the castle stage is there to thin the population. Does he have no information about the next one? Or is the entire purpose of these games to kill as many players as possible? If it's the latter then we're playing into the CAI's hands by continuing.

It's also possible that these games are merely a prelude to the REAL CAI Fight, since it would be completely silly for thousands of AIs to attempt real life missions. Missions like that sound more suited to smaller squads. If this is just the buildup to the real challenge then we should stick with it.

Also, it is like I expected- castles give the benefit of respawning ghosts. Also of note is that because of the intruder waves, drawing out the fight results in both teams taking losses, BUT whoever focuses less on defense stands to take more losses from Intruders. I think the most important thing to do is not taking over castles or setting up traps, but simply killing more of the other team's living members than they do. That weakens the enemy's capability to keep their defenses up, and hastens the ending conditions.

Sevener is in fact using the correct strategy by frontloading her troops, but only if she doesn't plan on rushing us with a wave of living members. If she sends mostly ghosts our way then she'll be playing it smart. It also looks like the capital castle is worthless for traps because Razing it at all times is the best way to get resources. You would probably want to defend it with ghosts while Razing it since Intruder waves can spawn and attack that castle... I'm not sure if we would want to focus on traps like we have been doing, and get some on the light trails too, or start making siege cannons and golems to go on the offensive. It's hard to say if we should make cannons/golems since we don't know how strong they are.

Maybe we should try making some device that allows us to launch a message to Sevener, telling her that this isn't a real CAI Fight and all we're accomplishing is racking up a bodycount?

ALSO of note is that if we cheat and pull out our forces, Corruptor won't be able to invade the undefended system brackets. Those brackets will have defenders again.

>>477072 Whichever side wins is revived completely. So thats not a worry.

As far as getting pulled out I'm going to say no to that. We need to get those logs more then ever.

As for now lets ask Corrupter if he is willing to share the logs he has gotten so far.

Then at the castle I suggest switching from traps to Golems and Seige weapons.

>>477109
It occurs to me that Sevener's forces are likely putting everything they have into siege weapons, since they're going on an all out offense. Can we prepare specific countermeasures to mitigate or disable hostile siege weaponry?

>>477109
Well, if the winners are fully revived, then we lost like half our forces so far anyway. Pulling out would likely leave those dead folks dead, would it not? That's bad news for the coming war with Bones.

>>477121
Well, that's the thing. We don't know what pulling out does! Theoretically it could go several ways:

1) All parties gets out, all the dead revive.
2) All parties gets out, the dead stay dead.
3) Alison's side escapes, Sevener's side is trapped and/or dies, our dead revive.
4) Alison's side escapes, Sevener's side is trapped and/or dies, our dead stay dead.

We need to know what a pull out does before we agree to it.

Note that in any case where the system gets out, it messes up Corruption attacking, and our ability to access Arbiter's logs. We need to at least buy time for an attack, and to attempt winning.

1/2 Alison 2012/12/07(Fri)22:34 No. 477139 ID: c4e5c2
File 135494849691.png - (14.01KB , 700x700 , CAI7-34(6).png )

>Initiate Ghost-Hug Procedures.
Ghost-Hug Procedures have been initiated.

"We still have 15 turns in the preliminary. If you hurry, you may be able to talk to glitcher and find out more specifics, because I'm not certain yet. It sounds like there's more after the castle though. Do you know what that is?"
>"No idea, what you're doing just sounds like random stage events. Yes, I'll try to get into contact with Glitcher, if you could help!"
"Would you also be willing to share your logs?"
>"... yes. I'll share them with you once you get out of this, whichever way you choose."
"Also, it seems like you make devotees subconsciously. If you could learn how to control that, I think it would be for the best. How do you think you messed up this cycle anyways?"
>"I tried to kill you! That was a terrible mistake. And I'll try to figure out how to control myself, but I do not even know what I'm capable of let alone getting a proper handle on it."
"Don't worry. Thank you, corruptor."
>"Thank you, and goodbye for just a moment."

2/2 Alison 2012/12/07(Fri)22:35 No. 477140 ID: c4e5c2
File 135494850580.png - (17.98KB , 700x700 , CAI7-37.png )

>Can we prepare specific countermeasures to mitigate or disable hostile siege weaponry?
Alison switches up things by making cannons and golems. Cannons can be placed in castles and pointed outwards to defend against other cannons.

>Get a message to sevener
Alison's only idea on how to do this is sacrifice a number of architects to make a massive billboard on one of the front castles saying the message.

It doesn't take too long for Glitcher and Corruptor to have a successful chat while a couple turns roll by, and Corruptor summons her again. She keeps working at a cannon while chatting with him.

He says that with glitcher's help, he's confident Alison and her team can be pulled out, but in order for his houses to invade, and Alison to get the logs she's after, a bit of time will have to be bought. Even if Sevener is going at a dangerously fast pace, it would still take several turns to take over a light trail and even more turns to take over a castle. If Alison leaves even just 10 individuals on her side, then that will be enough to keep sevener busy for 40 turns at least given the scale of this. She'll still have to kill those 10 to move on. Most likely 50 to 60 turns or more are needed plus the 13 remaining turns in the preliminary phase, given how much Alison has trapped and defended her castles.

Either way, it should be enough for corruptor to invade empty brackets, and for Alison to get back, get the logs, and get out before Sevener has a chance to eliminate what tiny bit of Alison's bunch she leaves behind.

I still want to win this. However what we can do is have Arbiter pull out now and head to the administrator zone and get those records while we stay behind. Our administration will be empty as there are no one to call the judges at all even if the other administrators were smart and left behind a judge lord.

>I tried to kill you! That was a terrible mistake.
Well, yes. A little. We understand though- those notes are trouble, and we're not proud of everything we think some of our alternate-past selves did.

>share logs
We actually have a bunch of info we learned while we were away to share with him, hopefully Glitcher and our house peeps can help get him up to speed.

>Leave a skeleton crew to stall Sevener in the pseudo CAI fight.
I don't suppose we can use the ghosts for that? After all, they're going to be dead even if we pull them out, right? Or would our side automatically lose if there are no living people left? (That kind of makes sense).

Leaving a force to die is kind of a dick move, but if we use people who were going to retire to the dream house in future stages anyways, it doesn't make much difference. They have to be volunteers, though.

>I still want to win this.
Hmmm. It would be nice if we could. Can we, though? Sevener has superior numbers. All she has to do is Zerg rush us with ghosts while her living people manufacture and roll anti-siege to the front, while razing unneeded defenses for parts. I'm not sure we can win a war of attrition, here!

Although, if we do make it through this stage, Sevener's advantage is gone, since Glitcher and Corruptor can spoil rulesets for us.

First she has to breach the walls, then get by the traps. Then we just pull out to the next castle. All the while sending ghost warriors and golems at her. If she spends time razing castles we can go around her and start taking her own lands. This is apparently a battle of attrition and as long as we play smart I think we can win it.

>>477140
I'm suddenly having second thoughts due to being unsure about the two thousand or so ghosts we already have. I don't think we have all of them in our absorption chain yet, so if they aren't resurrected when they're pulled the unabsorbed will be perma-dead.

>>477142
On the other hand, I agree that we can win this. Especially if the Corruptor and Glitcher help us.

...I know the other houses hate us, but can the Corruptor and Glitcher send them here to help? Because if they can and the house lords agree, then I know longer merely "think" we can win this.

>>477140
Shit yes, that sounds awesome. Let's just ask for 10 volunteers to give their lives to the cause. I don't think we'll have any issues with that. He didn't mention if our dead players would be revived, but... I dunno, sacrificing half our forces might be worth it, considering Sevener will have a bigger advantage the more our forces are reduced. Also, considering this is a fake CAI Fight, the revival thing might not even happen once one side wins.

Plus, I don't think there is any way for us to prepare for the CAI Fight if what Corruptor says is true. If it's a real-life scenario, then to prepare what we need to do is study real life. Study what people are like in the real world, how they handle engagements, what their culture is... HISTORY! The Historian really is important.

>>477147
But the victory condition isn't about seizing land. It's about getting a certain percentage of troops killed. If Sevener front-loads with cannons and ghosts, I don't see how we could make her burn warm bodies faster than us.

>I don't think we have all of them in our absorption chain yet
Don't worry about this. It's been standard operating procedure for a while to get the ghost of every new recruit via a persistence duel. The only person outside the chain are Scholar (because enforcers don't have ghosts) and maybe Chomper, if invincible got in the way.

The thing about seizing castles and lines is that they enable us to mitigate what we have to do to fight. Golems, cannons and traps mean we don't have to potentially lose people battling. The more we have the less we will lose.

Alison 2012/12/07(Fri)23:26 No. 477155 ID: c4e5c2
File 135495156902.png - (15.75KB , 700x700 , CAI7-38.png )

Alison is still making a decision, but asks corruptor if people that died here will be resurrected if they are brought out. The answer is yes, so almost no deaths would be had. Except for the 10 or so volunteers, those individuals would have to die, but they will simply retire at Alison's house. It is still not permanent, real death. It does not have to be 10, either, he just recommends more than, say, 1, in case sevener gets a particularly amazing cannon shot.

Corruptor says Glitcher can also just try to reinitiate the cai fight on a whole and try to get it right this time, bypassing the stage events.

>>477155
Lets do that then. We do want to experiance a CAI fight properly.

Alright heres the plan.

Arbiter pulls out now and goes to the admin zone to get those logs. We continue to fight while Glitcher works on making this a proper CAI fight. We play a battle of attrition to thin down her numbers as much as possible and once Glitcher is done we hit the switch to give Sevener a nasty little shock.

If we can bypass the events that would be good. It would also throw Sevener for a loop; not having a reduced force would be weird for her, I think. We're better at handling large numbers of troops, surely.

It would also give us the benefit of taking Sevener out of the equation entirely. She has a vendetta against us, and if we don't eliminate her now she will cause problems for us later, surely.

>>477155
I have half a mind to ask Glitcher to pull out a large chunk of the enemy forces. Say, all of the enforcers. Or maybe even everyone except Sevener.

Turning this into a proper CAI fight sim sounds good, though. Unless Glitcher can make it more like the CAIlympics? You know, since it'd be a shame to let all of those sports boons go to waste...

>just try to reinitiate the cai fight on a whole and try to get it right this time
...the problem with doing this is the system forces here outnumber ours! Any kind of real CAI battle has to e weighted to give the bigger side a significant advantage.

I think the best plan is to evac now, and confound Sevener while we strategically seize system zones and get Arbiter's logs. Then, later, we confront Sevener again, and hit her with a reignited CAI-fight before she can summon massive reinforcements.

>>477159
Well, we COULD let Sevener throw her forces against our castle walls for a little while, making sure to keep our forces out of harm's way, then trigger whatever Glitcher comes up with to skip to the end. Sevener's forces would be depleted but not ours.

>>477170
This. Pick them off at our leisure without putting ourselves at risk, then, when the time is right, initiate a proper CAI fight. Assuming that we can bring our entire team along with us for that. Otherwise, pull everyone out except us and initiate the CAI fight.

>>477170
...assuming reigniting the CAI fight wouldn't revive all the ghosts exactly the same way pulling them out would.

1/2 Alison 2012/12/08(Sat)12:19 No. 477255 ID: c4e5c2
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Alison asks if it wouldn't be possible to take out a chunk of enemy forces, once corruptor and glitcher end up getting a ghost conference party going.

Glitcher says it's much easier with consent, sort of like a ghost, but it might be possible, with unknown ramifications. Plus, they'd be out. Alison notes that she just wanted to know about the possibility, but doesn't think that she'll do that.

After some discussion, Arbiter and, for safety's sake, King, both Chompers, and about 10 others that are currently ghosts in the CAI but otherwise living outside of it will cut out to get his logs.

>Any kind of real CAI battle has to be weighted to give the bigger side a significant advantage.
Corruptor says Alison would think so, but actually, it focuses more on quality of quantity, usually.

>Can the glitcher/corruptor combination send corruptor's houses in as reinforcements?
This might be possible as well, but corruptor does not appear keen on this idea. They are already almost independent as is, and may not feel well about going in to assist Alison.

Lastly, Glitcher can skip this castle event at anytime, so Alison will see if she can't wittle down some of sevener's forces some before skipping to what should be an authentic simulation. Alison asks if she can't choose the sort of simulation it is, such as say, an olympic matchup in which everyone plays against each other.

Corruptor says that for all he knows, there is something like that, but he does not think he has control over that much, not without regaining some more memories. Either way, Glitcher and Corruptor will both ready to perform their skip at any time.

2/2 Alison 2012/12/08(Sat)12:19 No. 477256 ID: c4e5c2
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So Alison doesn't do anything radical yet, and keeps on building cannons and golems while Arbiter is pulled out to get logs. Engineer discovers a method to make a specialized trap spring golem, which is used to withstand traps and break them. However, since Alison is playing almost all defensive, this discovery will go wasted.

At turn 46, Sevener starts getting on the move, Scanner reports from her telescope. It looks like she was hiding her construction so that Alison wouldn't find out. Scanner performs a quick count. Sevener is doing this offensively as expected, but about half of her forces are hanging back. Scanner suspects that she is sending all of her ghosts, somewhere around 2,200, while keeping the her currently living, more effective forces on the defensive.

She sees around 2,000 golems and 700 cannons being mobilized. Alison got a late start, but she has far more architectural talent than the system, and so by the end of 50 turns she will not be terribly behind with 1,706 golems and 568 cannons.

Alison also has 43,199 traps across her territory. By this point, entering a castle seems to be the metaphorical equivalent of jumping in lava. Nevertheless, unless Sevener starts sending her living people, she won't lose forces.

>>477256
Oh, cool. Sevener is playing exactly as I thought she would.

Let's waste Sevener's time, while our allies outside seize their objectives (logs, system zones). We'll man the front lines with ghosts, and have the living fall back.

After Severner starts to grind her way through our trapped castes and ghosts, and we've bought enough time, we'll have Corruptor and Glitcher cheat.

>unless Sevener starts sending her living people, she won't lose forces
That's true... I guess we should send our ghosts into the contested areas and focus on weakening her siege, then. We get back over a fifth of them every turn, so that should be safe to do.

>They are already almost independent as is, and may not feel well about going in to assist Alison.
What about Corruptor's own house? They're loyal to him and Arbiter, so they should be willing to help.

>>477256
Well, if she only sends ghosts and golems, we can assault one of her castles all-out with our cannons and golems and ghosts to see if we can take out some of the forces in it, once her initial resources are spent. A counterattack against less effective defenses...

We could also just remain on the defensive and wait for the Intruder waves to wear her forces down. We can weather their attacks much more efficiently than she can.

I think I favor staying on the defensive for now, and making some trap-spring golems. Spend like 20 turns producing them. When she sends out her forces, see if we can throw our ghosts at them to take out their cannons. Like, order them to just focus on attacking the cannons.

>>477271
He's talking about his own house.

Sending our ghosts to meet theres in the middle is a great tactic to draw their living forces out.

Alison 2012/12/11(Tue)16:44 No. 477908 ID: c4e5c2
File 135527304682.png - (17.89KB , 700x700 , CAI7-47.png )

>They are already almost independent as is, and may not feel well about going in to assist Alison.
>What about Corruptor's own house? They're loyal to him and Arbiter, so they should be willing to help.
That is the case, and Corruptor can send his own, it just won't be overwhelming numbers as would be the case if bones, the council, swordsbane and obliterator were all in as well.

>Make spring trap golems
Alison will make a small amount, however, she only has 3 turns until her available production rate plummets.

Since Alison receives a 10th of her ghosts every turn, she will send a 10th each time to wittle down the ghosts.

As soon as the 50th turn comes, everyone rushes in. Mathematician and Engineer are ready to start jotting down losses and how much a fractional force can do against larger foes.

The answer is not very, but while Alison loses about 200 ghosts, they will all come back next round, which cannot be said for about 30 golems and 25 cannons on Sevener's side. The fight only lasts 1 turn.

It looks as though Sevener is now splitting her force up into two parts, going for castla A and B, the frontmost pair. Due to those being the least priority of castles, Alison only has around 500 total ghosts, golems and cannons protecting each of them, not including the massive amount of traps inside. Corruptor says that if allied troops get to a friendly castle at the same time as an enemy, they will still have time to barricade themselves inside, so Alison will be able to send in reinforcements if she wishes.

Between watching the progress and talking to corruptor, glitcher and arbiter, it is getting difficult for Alison to keep track of all the numbers.

>>477908
Focus on the fight.

Don't reinforce the castles. Let our traps handle them. Immediately send to that center tile our ghosts and any cannons and golems available in the two castles that aren't being attacked. Next turn send them ALL to one enemy castle. One of the rear ones. We attack while Sevener's ghosts are busy in one big wave, to kill whoever we can.

Tell Glitcher and Arbiter to be ready when you call, and to inform you when Arbiter's keycard run and/or the other Lord's system zone attacks are successful. In the meantime, concentrate on managing the battle.

Our current objective is to stall, buying our rebel player allies the time they need. Conserve live players, burn ghosts and traps as necessary. Try and whittle down Sevener's forces, if she ever commits anything living.

>>477912
Heh, you sneaky scoundrel. I like it.

>>477908
>Alison receives a 10th of her ghosts every turn
Correction, we receive a 10th of our total forces' worth of ghosts every turn, which since we won a bit over 50% of the fights last round comes out to a bit over two 10ths of our ghosts, which means we could have sent about 400 last turn.

>>477912
Heh, I like this plan. I'm not so sure we should send all of the canons and golems in those two castles, but aside from that nitpick the plan looks good.

>>477969
That's a good point. If we commit all our cannons to a counteroffensive, then Sevener can pound our forces at range with impunity for the rest of the battle.

>>477971
There won't be a rest of the battle. We're skipping to the end as soon as we kill some of Sevener's living forces.

>>477982
There's somewhat of a rest of the battle. We need to stall long enough for Corruptions' forces to hit the system brackets, and for Arbiter to use his keycard.

>>477982
My concern is mostly how quickly they could get though those two castles with only traps as defenses. I suppose we should have enough traps there that it won't make too much difference, though, so sending all of them is probably best.

>>477989
We're not stalling for the Corruptor anymore, we're trying to eliminate some of Sevener's living forces while losing as few of our own as possible so they'll be weaker when we reinitiate the CAI fight.

Well just keep rough estimates then. You could start pushing, then pulling back a little. The steady progression of your forces could push them back enough to switch the roles for offense in our favor, depending on if we get enough of a winning ratio to continue. Or we could just lean back and draw it out like an anaconda, it's preference.

If they split up their offensive now is a perfect time to hit one side with everything we can. We want to force Sevener to be reduced to her living and what she can build up now. Let them spend a turn losing stuff to the defence while we gather people then hit Castle A with everything.

1/2 Alison 2012/12/12(Wed)11:12 No. 478144 ID: c4e5c2
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Corruptor is asked for advice, and he thinks that Alison's ridiculous amount of traps will slow Sevener down significantly. It will still fall, but Sevener will have to balance her speed in taking over the castle. Go too fast and she'll take immense losses, but the only way she won't take many losses at all is to take many turns.

So Alison gets her series of hand signalers to give orders. Out of the two rear castles, she gets 1/3 to stay, and the other 2/3 to move on to the centermost tile in preparation to make an attack.

Sevener's forces do not back out of attacking Alison's two front castles, and they begin their siege. It appears that they are taking it cautiously to minimize total losses, with the more expendable ghosts being at the forefront for now.

2/2 Alison 2012/12/12(Wed)11:13 No. 478145 ID: c4e5c2
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Alison gets her middle-tile army to move forward to a single castle at the back. When she moves them, sevener reinforces that castle as she can. It is only with her living members, so Alison will get a chance to wittle down their numbers. Alison's attacking numbers are about on par with sevener's defenders, although the living individuals are stronger than Alison's ghosts.

Arbiter has successfully gotten the logs, and is leaving soon. Corruptor says that his houses are making good progress, as the ones with double move are meeting almost no resistance with weaker judges and supervisors and other critical, but small in number, system task forces. It is almost certainly in the clear, as even the other Houses do not wipe out the ones they are attacking during the castle stage, it isn't as though the proper CAI fight will instantly resolve. Corruptor asks if Alison would like to move on after her current attack on Sevener's living forces is finished, as by the time it does, sevener will certainly be close to being able to attack Alison's own living forces. He is also not certain that having more living members will be advantageous, as often the cai fights are about quality more than quantity, but there may be an exception that eludes him.

Yes, that sounds like a good plan.

>>478145
>quality rather than quantity
Still weirds me out that not once has someone won against the CAI then
move on

>Arbiter has successfully gotten the logs
I hope someone's on hand to calm him down if he freaks out. Remember, we are not always the same people, and he shouldn't judge himself or expect to be judged for what other versions of himself might have said or done. Same goes for the Corruptor. Or anyone else. We're not bound by the past- we're who we chose to be- not who we were.

>move on to a (hopefully) real CAI-type fight after done killing these living Sevener forces
Yeah, sounds like a plan. Thank you, Corruptor. Hopefully this goes well.

>quality more than quantity
Well, yes, but the idea is that the dead ones will be of diminished capacity like they are now, so having fewer living people might reduce their quality as a group. I think that makes sense, at least. It's just an extra advantage that we can afford to take the time to grab.

While we're doing this, though, what exactly do Arbiter's logs say?

>>478145
Yep, once we're done with this initial attack, we should move into the final CAI Fight.

1/2 Alison 2012/12/12(Wed)18:00 No. 478274 ID: c4e5c2
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>While we're doing this, though, what exactly do Arbiter's logs say?
Arbiter is currently scrambling to write all of them down so he has a copy. They aren't pretty, not as though they usually are. He says Alison will definitely want to see them, of course, but she should worry about one thing at a time.

So Alison does. The attack goes about as well as can be expected, while Alison's forces are more or less getting wittled away rapidly, Sevener's own living forces are not without their own losses. It takes a few turns of running in for both sides, and it looks like both battles are wrapping up.

She does remind Arbiter that everyone's done things their current selves have regretted in other cycles, but it seems that sometimes, everyone could seem like completely different people based on the short sentences the logs give.

Arbiter knows, and he is alright, but some things still hurt even if he knows it would in advance. All the same, he insists again that Alison focus.

2/2 Alison 2012/12/12(Wed)18:01 No. 478275 ID: c4e5c2
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The word is given after the last turn, and everyone is swept away in a process that is disconcertingly similar to death.

Nevertheless, Alison feels another voting time coming along.

CAI Simulation Initiated: 3 Scenario's available.
A - Belenosian Homeworld, B.W. 9,341 (Historical accuracy: High)
B - Summoner's Island (Historical accuracy: Absolutely none, Pomi mythology.)
C - Neumono Homeworld, Approx. B.W. 300 (Historical accuracy: Questionable)

Alison recalls the historian mentioning that B.W. is before the first warpdrive, when was when the calender was reset to year 0. Therefore, these simulations appear to take place before warpdrive.

It also does not particularly help that there is no indication of what each simulation entails, but Alison is more or less getting used to working blindly.

Well thats not ominois at all. I think we should go as realistically as possible. A.

B!

Ooooo let's do the neumono homeworld.

We already know what the neumono homeworld is like and the Pomi homeworld is inaccurate, let's go with belenosians.

>>478275
>disconcertingly similar to death
Well gee, isn't that pleasant.

>Scenarios
We should probably have the Corruptor bring the Historian into the party line and ask which of these he's probably the most familiar with, but if we can't get him before we make the choice the historically accurate one is probably the safest bet.

>Alison is more or less getting used to working blindly
Actually, by that logic, C is the best choice. We have access to a limited amount of out of character knowledge about conditions on the neumono homeworld. We know nothing about the others.

Also, neumono seem to have some connection to what's going on here. Alison should be most interested in them.

>Belenosian
Huh, you know, Arbiter could pass as one, except his horns go to the side instead of back.

>>478275
I'm going to guess that the setting will limit what abilities we have. A medieval setting will likely limit us to melee attacks unless we have something that makes sense for a ranged attack, like a bow and arrow or throwing daggers, that sort of thing. On the other hand maybe we'll be given equipment for that? On the other other hand, I expect that those without matching weapon types will not be able to use them as well.

I think we should ask Historian if he's familiar with any of these settings or dates. If not, let's go with B since it matches our abilities closely. It's the only one where we are likely to be able to make use of prehensile hair and acid spit!

C. Let's work with what we know.

C

A

A

Might as well go for the real scenario.

Unnatural Selection - Thread 6 End Alison 2012/12/14(Fri)09:38 No. 478708 ID: c4e5c2
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Belenosian Homeworld simulation has been chosen. Alison notes that Arbiter could pass as one of those pretty easily if not for the horns.