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6304 No. 6304 ID: 6cb915

While most people seem fixated on the "must have full attack" aspect of a gunslinger, I am curious as to weather or not a Dead Shot Gunslinger could be a viable build. With muskets doing 1d12 damage, taking signature deed to make it a no-cost deed, and getting Deadly Aim and Gun Training, it seems to me that it might not be entirely unfeasible to make a dead-shot gunman workable. That would also free up the usual two-weapon feats that the usual 'full attack only' builds would require. Since it would stack with precision damage, you could potentially make a rogue or assassin using this sort of build as well.

Thought, options, monstrous insults, etc?
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No. 6305 ID: 6cb915

As a side note, Vital Strike can be used with a gun as well, but the Dead Shot deed is different in that you get to roll for each attack and each success inflicts damage; this is opposed to making a single shot for a potentially larger multiplier with an all or nothing shot. The Dead Shot deed also allows for multiple crit chances even if the damage is only multiplied normally.
No. 6318 ID: 2590d3

Vital Strike could be good for a rifleman too, given certain situations. You won't always be able to afford a full-round action for attacking. In the first few rounds, you're going to be moving into position(crouching/proning included), and getting a good attack off then could turn the tide greatly if you're rolling on a 2d12.
Think of it as an option for the Dead Shot Gunslinger.
Myself, I'm interested in the two-weapon fighting, bandolier using Pistoleer.
No. 6328 ID: 6cb915

I was looking into that actually. You can manage to get the Rapid Reloading by 5th level, but you'll get no bonuses to hit, mainly because Deft Shootist is a must have feat, and that takes up 1st, 3rd, and 5th level slots to collect on. Vital Strike is what the rifleman can use when he's moving into a better position or setting himself up, while Dead Shot is what he's use given a full attack action. Having access to the other deeds makes him viable even with the heavy specialization; taking catch off guard is a good idea as well, allowing him to make attacks with his pistols and musket in melee without spending grit.
No. 6354 ID: 6cb915

Dead shot is really only useful for weaposn with multiple energy types added to them, since those increase the damage as well. That way it at least has a chance of inflicting a death-by-massive-damage save, which still isn't very likely. The gunslinger still suffers from the need to have a full attack set to do significant damage. They might be able to fix it with a rifleman archetype.
No. 6383 ID: 65e3cb

Technically, all PF noncasters work in that way. That doesn't make the Gunslinger special. There are some feats which will help you cope with it, but it's not like a full attack will be especially rare either.
No. 6387 ID: 6cb915
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It's rare for gunslingers to be able to use full attacks before 11th level is all. Unless GM's allow things like the double pistol and the pepperbox, it really limits the capacity for gunslingers t use full attacks unless they have constant access to alchemical rounds. You are right, full attacks are still going to be available, it's just harder for a gunslinger to take advantage of them RAW without some cheese - in my opinion. The main idea was making an alternative build that wouldn't rely on multiple weapons or special weapons.
No. 6704 ID: 334cf5

personally, I'm all right with relying upon multiple weapons. I trust you've seen the "gloves of weapon enhancement"? They're gloves or bracers, which enchant the weapons you're using while you hold them. So for a bandolier-using pistoleer, such an item would be magnificent.
Of course, it's an improperly slotted magic item, so it's expensive. But one could talk to their DM about such a thing.
No. 7050 ID: 694e74
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>Unless GM's allow things like the double pistol and the pepperbox,

I don't see why he wouldn't. Both of those count as early firearms and so should be allowed if the normal pistols and muskets are allowed.
No. 7209 ID: 4c0a14

But there are several hundred years between that and the early handgun.
Just because metal pipes and stuffing gunpowder into them have become popular, doesn't mean that anything that isn't a machinegune is readily available.
No. 7213 ID: 98141e


It's like saying iron swords are okay and then someone demands spanish steel.
No. 7217 ID: 28e94e
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The filename says it all
No. 7220 ID: 543375

Gunslingers can full attack at first level (assuming this is pathfinder platest round 2)

Rapid reload allows you to reload a pistol with alchemical cartridges as a free action.

I'll double check with muskets, but I'm fairly certain you can also somehow.
No. 7221 ID: 543375

Here we got:

When using rapid reload, the action required to reload is reduced by one full step RAW: Fullround to Standard to Move to Free (specifically skipping swift in that order RAW)

Two Handed Weapon with Paper Cartridge and Rapid Reload = Move action to reload, costs 1.2 gold a shot.
Two Handed Weapon with Metal Cartridge and Rapid Reload = Free action to reload, costs 2.0 gold a shot.

As thus when you full attack with a musket, you're paying the extra 8 silver per shot for the d12 damage as opposed to the 1d8 damage for a pistol, but you're also firing more realibly.

The only feat you need to do this is Rapid reload which you ought to have with your favored firearm by at least level 3, but you are more than capable at level 1 to full attack with multiple shots.

The only question is whether or not your DM allows metal cartridges and this ruling determines whether or not your gunslinger will be a deadeye focused gunslinger or not.
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