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10468 No. 10468 ID: 5fcba9

It's coming. July 15th
Expand all images
No. 10481 ID: 186341

It's gonna be bad!!
No. 10516 ID: 30df25

It's here.
No. 10519 ID: 2fd516

But is it bad?
No. 10520 ID: 186341

It's bad!!
No. 10521 ID: 6378a0
File 140518136601.jpg - (48.72KB , 625x470 , url.jpg )


Agree to disagree? It's different from classic, certainly. That doesn't necessarily mean "bad" though.

Pic kinda related.
No. 10522 ID: 30df25

Difficulty Classes (DC) have been completely reworked. Max is 30 at any character level, and the only situation modifier is whether you have 'advantage' (roll 2d20, use best) or 'disadvantage (roll 2d20, use worst).

No more skill points. If your character is "proficient" in a skill, they add their "proficiency bonus" (based on character level) to an ability score check. The largest proficiency bonus is +11.

Saving throws are skill checks.

No more grid. You can still use one, but it's no longer a requirement (no 'move X squares', thank god).

All spellcasters are like sorcerers now: you know N spells from your lists, you spend spell slots instead of preparing a spell list every morning. Spells that used to scale with player level (ie Magic Missile) don't anymore, but you can spend a higher-level spell slot to cast it for improved effect. You want more magic missles? Give it the juice as a 3rd level spell instead.

Some buff spells like 'Haste' or 'Protection from Blah' spells are no longer fire-and-forget; each spellcaster can maintain only one such spell at a time using "concentration." They can still act freely while maintaining that one spell, but concentration breaks when they cast another spell that needs it, or might break if they take damage, or totally breaks if they get knocked out.

Clerics an wizards have a very limited number of cantrips they know that can be cast without using spell slots. Clerics can cast Light all day, and wizards can Mage Hand all day.
No. 10523 ID: 30df25

You choose race and subrace. Race gives an advantage, subrace gives an additional minor advantage. (ie. all Dwarfs have +2 Con, advantage for resisting poison, darkvision; Hill Dwarfs get +1 Wis and more hitpoints, Mountain Dwarfs get +2 Str and extra armor proficiency).

Alignment system is back to the 3x3 system as God intended. There's also some required fluff for your character in "ideals," "bonds" and "flaws." The DM can tap these to give a character "inspiration" for a best-of-two-rolls advantage in a single skill check or saving throw.

There's a "lifestyle" rating for characters, for leaking your hard-earned income, and giving an idea of what resources (financial or social) you have just always on hand without having to write down every damned stick, cup and fork.
No. 10524 ID: 2fd516

>no more grid
How the fuck do you do multi-character combat without a grid?

I like all these changes.
No. 10525 ID: dbe554

Now the important part, since this is cutting 4E in every single way they could figure out. Is Linear Fighter Quadratic Caster back.

Are "Martial" classes now useless sidelined characters only good if the casters feel like toning themselves down to their tier.
No. 10527 ID: 92fe71

Just roll the dice for combat, figure out ranks if it's in a corridor, and draw a mock-up of the space for casting area spells.

Well, as I understand it the fighter was "linear" because the most he could do was attack somebody. The caster was "quadratic" because his low level spells scaled with his level, his high level spells were good as well, and his buffs, debuffs, and other spells that lasted multiple rounds made it so that even without exploiting holes in the system he had more "effect" than the fight. With buffs like haste and spells like fireball he could be giving an advantage to the party while attacking more than one opponent, while the fighter could attack one opponent or if the system allowed it help an ally. I wouldn't know without testing it but if the spellcaster has to concentrate on buffs and his spells don't scale to his level, he'll become more "linear" like the fighter because he'll be shackled to the same limited number of actions-per-turn.
No. 10528 ID: dbe554


Check under tabletop. Even without buffs the Save or Die spells helped progress the Fighter to worthless. He can do X damage per turn, while the wizard can pick the enemies weakest save and kill them instantly.
No. 10530 ID: 30df25
File 140563350144.jpg - (31.07KB , 640x480 , alex_louis_armstrong_teaches_typing.jpg )

So far Fighters seem only to have special abilities useful in melee. I remember from old-school that Fighters were the ones who could make best use of hirelings and followers, and in AD&D 1st edition they were the only ones who could wield magic swords. Those swords would sometimes be intelligent and have their own very limited spellcasting.

Every class has a selection of 'archetypes' with a selection of powers as you level up (well, for clerics it's called their god's divine "domain"). We've only seen one archetype/domain for each class in the basic set, so maybe there's a fighter archetype yet to be published that's more leader-oriented.
No. 10531 ID: dbe554


Ugh, speaking of Leader I know Warlord got cut, they derided it the entire time on twitter :(
No. 10537 ID: 2fd516

If there's multiple PCs and multiple monsters, how do you determine relative position without any sort of grid? Is the DM supposed to just keep track of where everyone is standing in his head?
No. 10542 ID: 6e85c8


This is a person who is trying to pretend that D&D was ever designed without a grid in mind.

You're not going to get through to them.

Shit, pre-3.x the game had rules for facing
No. 10562 ID: 30df25
File 140958094553.jpg - (345.59KB , 901x775 , south_london0001.jpg )

But anon, AD&D was designed for tabletop wargaming -- distances for spell effects and movement was in *inches* not squares. Get out your tape-measure. It was born from reenactment wargaming miniatures, not from chess or morris.
> inb4 "but grids also use inches"
Grids came after, not before.
No. 10576 ID: 2fd516

Irrelevant. With no grid or precise definitions of range, you're not even using a ruler.
No. 10588 ID: 6e85c8


By the time D&D existed as D&D (and not as Chainmail) the distances were listed for use as far as how many 5' squares on the grid were involved.

Hell, speeds were even listed as "12( 60')". The "12" was, in fact, the number of 5' squares on the grid that a thing would move.

D&D has always used grids.
No. 10590 ID: 7c669d

Grids were introduced because all the tapemeasuring was a major timesink and a *pain in the ass*. Letting a neutral referee make spot judgements for speed of play was fine-in the old pvp games when there *were* neutral referees. In D&D letting the DM "eyeball it" never ends well for the players.
No. 10670 ID: 3c3238

There should still be (optional) rules for facing.
No. 10771 ID: ab0ecc

Some buff spells like 'Haste' or 'Protection from Blah' spells are no longer fire-and-forget
No. 10837 ID: bc7b81

it came.
No. 10845 ID: 4c2072

I came again.
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